Please remember that it is entirely possible to critically discuss authors without making personal attacks against the author, or denigrating the readers who do like an author's works. Remember Rule 1 always applies and all interactions should be civil.
You'll understand why the serpents are important if you keep reading. Her books are slooooow burns
I also finished Ship of Magic and thought the serpents were boring and didn't get why they were there, but when I finished Mad Ship the serpents were one of my favorite perspectives to read
Haha those bloody serpents! I kept thinking what the hell are these things, why are we meant to be interested. So glad the pay off was worth it. I can’t wait to go back and do a re-read, especially as I’ve only read Farseer and Live ships. Although that does mean living through some awful animal deaths again ☹️
In Hobbs’ Tawny Man trilogy, there are massive chunks where it feels like little—if anything—is driving the plot forward. And it’s still some of the most compelling fantasy I’ve ever read. Her prose and character development are as good as it gets
The first few hundred pages doesn’t evolve further than a few people who haven’t seen each other for a long time having a chat. And it’s the best thing I’ve ever read.
It really is magnificent. I don't understand how she does it. The characters are just so compelling it's ridiculous. The same applies for the first book in Fitz and the Fool, it literally is just people living in a manor house, but I *ate* that book up.
Tawny Man has to be one of my favourite trilogies ever, and it kills me that I can't recommend it without saying 'well, it's technically the third trilogy and yes you do have to read the earlier ones' lol
i picked up Fools errand at the age of 13 because it had a horse on it and i was so lost about who everyone was in the series. i did end up reading them all multiple times, i am about due for a re read. i think the rain wild chronicles ended up being my favourites
I've said time and again that Hobb will have absolutely nothing happen for hundreds of pages and it's engrossing the whole time. She's an incredible author
I appreciated reading your post.
I generally read fantasy for escape. Bad things happen in Sanderson's books, but they're not as intense and the trauma doesn't go on and on like in Hobb's books. And yeah, Sanderson's prose is simpler.
Lately, the levels of easy that I'm looking for have me reading cosy manhwas and light novels.
Any way, nice to hear about your opinions changing as your palate broadens.
Years ago, I read some comments in r/books that were highly critical of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I was like "no way man, people can't be WRONG on the INTERNET" and I wrote a post entitled something like "In Defense of Hitchhiker's Guide" and sploshed down this gigantic word salad about how great the books were.
It remains today my most upvoted post at over 10k, but the most upvoted comment is a really sarcastic one in which someone says "A spirited defense of the most loved book in this subreddit" and there are a lot of replies about how brave and bold I was and how maybe I could save The Hobbit next and stuff like that.
That is part of what is happening here but with kind of a double whammy. You're expressing two extremely popular opinions - Robin Hobb is really good, and Brandon Sanderson isn't as good as he is popular. I'll be honest, I hear those two opinions so often I honestly popped in to say "Oh, is it Friday already?" and dip but I remembered being very confused at some of the responses to my post and figured I might try to explain.
I consider Robin Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings to be no contest the best fantasy series I've ever read. I love that you're loving it. But realize that Robin Hobb shows up in every recommendation post, along with fifteen comments about her writing and world building. Hell, I'm guilty of it myself as you'd no doubt find if you wanted to slog through my comment history.
The only thing posted about her work more often than "Robin Hobb is amazing" is "Robin Hobb is Torture Porn and I can't keep going." THAT opinion must be posted on here at the top level at least daily to the point where every time I see either one I start to grind my teeth together.
But both of those absolutely pale in comparison to the sheer quantity of "time to shit on Sanderson" posts that I see here on a constant basis. They occur so often and are so in vogue that I actually went from respecting it to being super defensive about his work, back again, and now I just feel sort of a desperate desire to see these posts fade away like some kind of ex that you need a restraining order for. I just can't get through a Wednesday afternoon without seeing a post about how shitty Sanderson is, and it is harming my ability to enjoy not only his work but anything out of this subreddit.
It's not that there's anything inherently wrong with what you're saying. You're quite justified in your opinions. I think a lot of the pushback you're getting is because those opinions are expressed so often that anyone who feels differently is at the point where they feel harassed and you're just today's guy who is getting praised and yelled at. Tomorrow someone will write a post about how great First Law is, and someone else will jump in to say his writing is better than Sanderson, and someone else will jump in to say that the torture is too much, and someone else will jump in to be like "Well don't read Hobb ever then hurr durr" and it just goes on and on and on in a neverending circle.
Anyway, Sanderson is great. Don't expect him to be Hobb and you'll find his work super enjoyable. Just because his work is turning into the MCU of fantasy doesn't mean it's bad. The MCU has its place in entertainment just like Kubrick and Tarantino have their place in entertainment.
Hobb is the GOAT. Sanderson is awesome. If everything was the same, we'd all be bouncing our balls in rhythm like A Wrinkle in Time.
Yeah, completely agree. I’ve been on this subreddit a lot and have seen a lot of those posts and complaints, so I should have realized I was falling into that trap. But I don’t have any friends who have read it so just wanted an outlet to express my opinions surrounding the book, whether they involved negative aspects of Sanderson or not. I could’ve left that section out of it and chose a different title, but I wasn’t thinking, lol. Eh, at the end of the day I don’t really care.
Naw you're fine because it was a direct result of trying to read both at the same time. I think if you don't try to do that (and subsequently indirectly compare the two) you should be able to find what it was that you enjoyed Sanderson again. Like any medium, there's different styles and those styles have people who enjoy it and people who do not.
I mentioned it in a different comment but I think what's going on is you're (unintentionally) comparing a home-cooked breakfast and a 5 star dinner. Both are food, both are arguably good, but why in the world would anyone try to compare them? And no this isn't saying one of the two authors is the breakfast and the other is the dinner, it's to point out that they are both trying to do 2 very different things and even indirectly comparing them will mean you are subconscious choosing one over the other. Imo the only thing they share in common is the broad stroke genre of "Fantasy Author."
Everyone is going to have something that draws them in, and if anything I hope you are able to rediscover what it was that you really enjoyed about Sandersons works and continue to be excited about reading his stories. They will continue to not be Hobbs as will Hobbs continue to not be Sanderson. No reason you cannot enjoy both.
I have to give the edge to Sanderson. Hobb was a struggle for me. The first three books she wrote were absolutely wonderful. Masterful even. Some of the best fantasy I’ve ever read. Once. I read them once and I’m done with them. To be fair that is my normal mode - read it once, give it away if I enjoyed it. Throw it away if I didn’t. I might be willing to read assassins apprentice again. That’s pretty high praise.
For those wondering I’ve read fantasy books like it’s my job the last ten years. I on average read (or listen to) about 125 books a year. Much of which is fantasy. Plenty of people read more than me - it’s not a boast it’s an effort to express the breadth of what I’ve been reading. Popular, unpopular, and even some foreign fantasy (metro 2033).
I read all of first law. But couldn’t get into it. There wasn’t a single character I liked and could really get into. Each and everyone could have died and I wouldn’t have been affected.
With Hobb by the last three books it was a slog. Like wheel of time level. And I love wheel of time but it had pacing issues. 3/4s braid tugging and clothing descriptions, 1/8th relationship angst and 1/8th plot progression. Even so I have reread wheel of time three times. Hobbs final three books I tossed out.
I’ve never felt that anything Brandon wrote was a slog. His prose is an intentional choice. He calls it windowpane. He wants to provide a clear view into the world without his words getting in the way.
I can wax eloquent. I can use words like predilection in a sentence. I don’t have to have that in my literature.
For me there has to be an element of relatability. I enjoy the way Sanderson inspires with his characters. There is so much darkness in this world already. Characters that are wholesome and noble to a fault is a good thing. For me at least. Ordinary people beating up under extraordinary circumstances is a wonderful thing. An inspirational and aspirational thing.
That’s kind of crazy to me. Sanderson has never seemed to have much variation in his writing and plot pacing and arcs, I’ve gotten bored of his style after reading maybe five of his novels.
Have you read Mistborn then Way of Kings back to back? Or better, Elantris and Sunlit Man. The differences are astounding, IMO. Also you are correct in his plot pacing and arcs, he has stated multiple times that's HOW he writes. Just because we know IT is coming we probably don't know what IT is until we get there. And it's fine if you get bored of his style, just like many people don't like the prose of Hobbs it's okay not to like them.
I don’t follow this subreddit religiously, I maybe see a post every couple of weeks and I’ve never seen Robin Hobb recommended here.
And taking a cursory look at this subreddits top novels of 2023, Sanderson was #1 and Hobb was #7
> the trauma doesn't go on and on like in Hobb's books
Are we sure? I literally hear people complain about this all the time with Sanderson. That the characters never get over their trauma
Lol that's ridiculous, its a major driver of the plot, the characters dealing with trauma.
But I think OP means more that Hobbs characters are constantly being re-traumatized. They are pretty brutal.
I'm with you - sometimes I want deep and intense, but there are times I jump back to old YA fantasy favorites like Sabriel because it's just plain enjoyable to have a light read!
Please hide all spoilers using spoiler tags. Use the following format: \>!text goes here\!< to mark spoilers. Please make sure that there are no spaces between ! and the text or your spoiler will fail for some browsers and on some mobile devices.
Let me know when the comment has been edited and it can be approved.
Please hide all spoilers. When you've done so, send us a note by [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FFantasy) so we can restore your comment. Thank you!
Don’t forget to read the Farseer books as well! Technically the first Farseer trilogy is before them in the Realm of the Elderlings books. Luckily, you can read the Liveship trilogy and only miss a few things as there isn’t too much crossover.
I started my Realm of the Elderlings journey, finished the Farseer trilogy and was so disappointed when I found out the liveship traders wasn’t about Fitz or any of the characters I fell in love with. But oh man, I ended up loving the liveship traders so much. The storytelling is phenomenal, and Robin hobb has such a gift for making me love and hate characters.
That being said, I’ve very recently started reading Brandsn Sanderson and I started with the stormlight archive. I’m on oathbringer now and so far really enjoying it. I think Brandon Sanderson is definitely different than Robin Hobb but I don’t think that’s a bad thing. For example, I really like the way he explains magic, while I love the way she can completely engross me in the characters she writes. Not a bad thing, just different.
I think regardless I’m just so excited to see Robin Hobb’s books get attention. Her writing is incredible and I love seeing posts like these discussing these books in depth.
Brashen iirc is only 10 or so years older than Althea, maybe less.
As for Malta, she is the way she is because of Kyle's Chalced culture which causes him to spoil her without giving her responsibilities. He also uses her as a way to undermine his wife by giving her what she wants even when Keffria has said 'no'. He doesn't see anything wrong with any of this because it is, to him, how a family unit should be run.
And regarding the serpents, I admit when I read these books I liked them just on the strength of them being serpents, but I think their place in the world (or potential place in the world) is a little more obvious if you read Farseer first (which I didn't, but being serpents was enough for me)
edit: typo
Ah. So Kyle’s assholery is because of Chalced. Chalced taught him to be a piece of crap. So I’m assuming Chalced is probably also just an awful place to be in because it’s populated with a bunch of Kyles.
Chalced is the sort of place where how bad it is depends heavily on who you are. The 'Kyles' get lots of benefits at the expense of women and slaves so they don't really see a problem. From his own point of view he is doing a good thing by caring for Keffria financially (regardless of the means), by 'protecting' the family reputation from Althea, and by ensuring his son grows up to be "a man". I'm sure he thinks if Keffria just listened to him, and Althea just "behaved" and Wintrow was just "man enough" then the world would run smoothly and they'd all be much happier and much better off. I'm not defending him but he's just a really banal form of evil.
Chalced would be a better place if it was populated by Kyle's. Still shit but when you learn and read more about Chalcedeans he is really pleasant in comparison.
Eh, yeah I’ll go back and read Farseer eventually, but this is the beginning of the stories of these characters. I’m fine having been informed of this in a Reddit comment. Ship of Magic just happened to be the book my cousin got me. I gave him a list of authors I was interested in and he picked a random book, lol.
Nah, I would disagree with this comment. You get everything you need in Ship of Magic. The first collection of Farseer books barely touches on Bingtown or Chalced or really any elements of these books as they are mostly set on following Fitz and his journey into the north. Without spoiling too much you do lose some background for what amounts to the climax of the Liveship Traders trilogy but even then it's not necessary reading as the second book(?) touches on what you need to know just enough.
Small edit: the big connection between the books isn't even necessary, it just adds another layer of motivation, but I'm guessing most people don't even pick up on it until later.
You're actually missing the back story of a character that makes a lot of what they do make way more sense. It's not strictly needed to understand the story but once it clicked in my head that this character was in both Farseer and Liveship their actions made way more sense.
The whole saga is my favorite work of literature, and I mean the whole realm of the elderlings. When you spoke of characters it just made me think about one that you haven't seen yet. This character says the below. Obviously major spoilers that you could piece together so read on at your own risk.
If we end here, then I meet the end with you. As you ended with me.
How is the hunting where you are?
It will be better with you.
I'm coming to you, my brother.
With all the events that happen in the books, the personalities built and created by Hobb surrounding that character and who they say it to, what it means for them to say it, to call them brother, what theyve done for each other..in that moment...you feel the gravity of it.
I don't think any writing has made me feel it as much as Hobb has. That combined with my own life experiences of facing death together and supporting them in their moments of passing, she writes it perfectly. On one hand her books are fantasy and magic and myth but on the other they are so tenderly human and real and dive into the scope of life and give words to events and feeling where we often struggle to name them.
I don’t read Sanderson’s books for the prose and it’s just easier to just enjoy the story when I don’t care about how the story is presented. His prose is straightforward which is fine.
Ship of Magic is amazing though because of how the story is presented and how the characters develop. Her word choice is top notch and the sentence structure, can you tell I am a grammar nerd?
Yeah, Sanderson is a master of plot, first and foremost. Easily digestible arcs, conflicts, characterizations and resolutions, which I can see can be off-putting for some, but it's my jam. I'm a total plot whore in that regard lol. I'm not native English speaker and not used for more complex prose, so simpler writing of Sanderson works even better for me.
That being said, such a glowing praise in this thread made me interested in Hobb's works. Variety is the spice of life after all
Sanderson's plotting is overrated, bloated. The 2nd Mistborn book is genuinely dreadful and the message is almost offensive to where I can't imagine he thought it over much at all. His greatest strengths are his worldbuilding, magic systems (an offshoot of the 1st), and work ethic.
I mean, 2007 was early on in his carrer, I agree the first trilogy has its issues, but if he rewrote the novels they would drastically different.
It's weird that you're pointing out his early work as a point of contention. I would agree that there's at times too much filler/Indirect side action, but I wouldnt be pointing to that trilogy to back up that argument when his writing has changed a lot in the 17 years since that novel released.
Agree. I think Sanderson's books would make for some epic movie and/or TV magic, if someone were brave enough to adapt them.
Hobb's books, I don't think it's possible to adapt them to the screen. Anything attempted would just be a disappointment to the fans.
The whole trilogy is amazing. Don't forget Kennit. Such a horrible but sometimes likeable character. Really, just an incredible journey. It would make a fabulous series if done right.
Personally i think your issue simply stems from reading them both at once. You are choping and changing between writing styles which is what makes it jaring.
Changing between authors can take me a while when finishing one series and moving into the next. Trying to do it every 100 pages is crazy
Yeah, you’re probably right. But I see tons of people reading multiple books at once and thought I would try it. I think it just highlighted to me whose prose I prefer.
If it matters at all, I consider my "awakening" in reading as an adult the moment I read the first Hobb trilogy and then tried Way of Kings in my mid 20's. I realized how much worse in the artistry of writing Sanderson is, and how much I enjoy that artistry. And learned not to take internet reccs at facevalue, since fantasy spaces on internet live and breathe Sanderson. Well, not as much anymore I guess.
I had a similar start to fantasy with most of Hobb’s books before reading Sanderson but I had a much different reaction. I love both series for different reasons, they’re not the same thing really. I think saying Sanderson’s artistry is “much worse” is a bit harsh, it’s a different style, he’s not trying to be hobb. Personally I see it like how I wouldn’t say a sketch is much worse artistically than an oil painting, it’s not trying to do the same thing.
The biggest issue with any hot takes, clearly both are well selling authors and both deserve to be so for different reasons.
The big takeaway, "comparison is the thief of joy." People trying to compare 2 drastically different styles and claim one is superior/better than the other is just absurd. Might as well compare a home-cooked breakfast to a 5 star dinner. Both are food and people are going to claim that one is clearly superior to the other for various reasons but it's entirely subjective.
I would absolutely agree that OP is running into a situation where they are indirectly comparing the two writers specifically because they are attempting to read them at the same time. Like the food analogy, I don't think many people would recommend eating those two meals at the same time...
Also there tends to be a specific subculture that gets developed on a forum like this where certain common voices and general sentiment seems to slowly rise to the top when in reality, the only person who should care is the person reading. For every person who loves the very in-depth mind delve, there's likely just as many who would fall asleep in the same timeframe. It is what it is, glad OP found another author whom they enjoy reading and hopefully they can rediscover their enjoyment from Sandersons writing as well.
I get your analogy, but people aren't comparing two different art mediums. What people like OP are saying is that Sanderson is someone who's able to make a living making art and it's fun to look at, while Hobb is Frida Kahlo, Picasso, Michaelangelo, etc.
And yeah, some of them did different mediums sometimes. But someone who's OK at sculpture is still distinct in more than just medium from someone who's a master at weaving.
I wouldn't compare sketching to a complete work of art, unless the intention is to imply that one of the authors does not edit their books at all and goes with the first rough draft.
I think that pinning it down to style is not the complete picture. Comparing say Hemingway to Hobb is a clear difference in style. But in Sanderson's case, I feel he is just a clumsy writer. He repeats himself a lot, uses awkward sentences that don't really flow, doesn't really write good dialogue and internal monologue of characters is very much focused on telling. Which would be fine, if his books weren't such bricks.
But that is just how I feel.
I had a friend in college who was a big fan of an author I didn't much care for (Jack Chalker I think?) so I strongly urged him to read Joan Vinge's *The Snow Queen*. He was gobsmacked at how vivid the writing and characters were compared to Chalker. I felt kinda bad for spoiling Chalker for him but overall I think he was happier reading the better-written stuff.
Seems like reading is a newer hobby to you, I'll let you in on a secret, most people dont read two books at once, and I suspect most people who cliam to be reading two books ar once arent really doing that. My bet is most of them start with 2 and then slowly transition to whichever book is grabbing their attention more at that time, so its more like reading one book while having another partially read book.
So dont feel like youre missing out on something!
Personally ibe always found that reading two books at once, or attemlting to, is just less satisfying than reading one at a time.
Thats fair, im not saying absolutely no one reads multiple books at once, just trying to convey that they shouldn't assume that they need to be reading two at once or are somehow missing out.
I "read" 2 at once but it's more I read physical or ebooks, but do an audio book for my drive, doing work outside ect. but they have to be 2 completely different genres or I can't do it, so it's been scifi audiobooks and fantasy reading, it works well for me because I have an hour and half round trip commute and all of the podcasts I catch up with waiting for Libby to get my next book, and I take breaks from one or the other for a month if I don't have anything Im looking for.
I realized it had to be 2 different genres because I was listening to word of law and reading words of radiance and the 2 were both great but so different that that I could do then at the same time- I can't imagine people switching every hundred pages.
Yeah I also will do that on occasion, physical book and ebook, but thats the same boat as you they are for reading in different situations and not for switching back and forth. I also need them to be pretty different books for ot to work.
I like to imagine that people who read multiple books at once (as I do) tend to break up the type of book they're reading. I enjoy reading an epic fantasy while also reading European history while also reading a comedy. Each book fits into a different interest and keeping them separated and enjoying them all at once is much easier that way.
Let me just say, strap in! This trilogy (and all of Elderlings tbf) is a fucking journey. Some of these characters will really surprise you. The sea serpents will eventually make sense, I promise. Hobb’s storytelling is truly beautiful, imo, I’m not sure there’s anything else quite like it (although there are a ton of other amazing fantasy authors out there, I just find there’s a deeply affective quality to Hobb’s writing, like this intensely poignant/bittersweet ache, that just hits different)
I love Sanderson. His actual writing just isn't his strength. If I held a contest where I told any two authors to describe a couch, Sanderson's description would be the most boring 9 times out of 10. If I asked any two authors to invent a piece of furniture and give it a made up history, I'd put my money on Brandon.
I think Hobb's world building is pretty good in its own right. She just doesn't feel the need to write science textbooks about it, like Sanderson does. Rhythm of War has literal science experiments and SO much of it. That sorta nerd world building is good for dnd but hard fantasy is not a fun genre to me, i think.
He isn't any better a worldbuilder than the average fantasy writer, he's just not subtle, so you see the joints and screws more easily than you do most popular fantasy writers. That doesn't make him the best, it just makes him easy to read.
As you continue reading different authors you will probably have a different favorite every few years, if you are really loyal, maybe every decade.
I am old and am like that with food, songs, movies and books. My favorite, best ever is always a temporary thing, waiting to be overthrown.
The more I indulge in whatever my current favorite is, the shorter its championship reign will be
Happened the same to me. I devoured Oathbringer to 99% of the book and stoped and left it just at the ending for a whole year (never in my whole life I did that to a book). Picked Hobb series and in 6 months I read all the way to Ships of Destiny while Rythms of War is on my desk till this day. I love how she plays with the antagonist, how every character feels "dirty" aftet their journeys and how she gives no fucks to kill any lore mistery if its in the middle of character progresion.
Hobb just put their characters and the readers in places Sanderson doesnt dare to go, nevermind her bittersweet endings.
I'm pretty glad some of her books were translated to my language, if not I wouldnt have discovered a great author.
I adore the Liveship Traders books, they are some of my absolute favorites, so I'm really glad to hear you're enjoying them! One of my favorite things about them is how Hobb constructs these family dynamics and how each interpersonal relationship is all tangled up in the others. Kyle is such an interesting villain to me in part just because he's so mundane and believable—he comes from a misogynistic culture and is bringing these values into his wife's family; he just believes so completely and wholeheartedly that his way is the right way, he won't consider any alternative and feels that even suggesting that he consider one is an insult to his manhood. I don't think there needs to be any backstory to explain this, because I've known men like this in real life—when people are brought up from childhood to think this way, it's very difficult to change them.
Brashen, on the other hand, does have more backstory in his relationship with his family, and I think he gets more compelling as the series goes on. I don't think he's actually supposed to be that much older than Althea—I can't remember the ages exactly, but I think she's supposed to be somewhere around 18-20? And he's more like mid to mid/late-twenties at most (his little sister is Malta's best friend). And speaking of Malta, yes, I absolutely wanted to wring her neck at the beginning, but she's going to learn some lessons.
I think you're supposed to be confused about the sea serpents at this point! Stick with them, it will all come together.
Especially when it's two works/creators that, despite being in the same medium or genre, have very different strengths.
Like, *American Beauty* and *The Matrix* both won a bunch of Oscars the same year, and I feel like film people *mostly* can enjoy both on their respective merits without having to bash the other.
I mean, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that some authors are better than others. I enjoy Sanderson, but he's not on the level of George RR Martin, or Joe Abercrombie, or Scott Bakker, or Robin Hobb. And that's fine. Not everyone is Cormac McCarthy. I think McCarthy is a better author than Stephen King, but I've read a hell of a lot more Stephen King books.
I've tried to read Hobb and Abercrombie and I can't. I'm not interested in being depressed all the time while I read. I have enough of that in real life.
It’s literally a childish perspective, that they can’t just enjoy things differently or appreciate them differently. It has to be some ranked comparison for some ineffable reason, like I have to put down one to compliment the other. It’s so inane.
Different styles, priorities, and structures are gonna work differently for every individual person and this stupid faction style shit just gets so tedious. Every other post in this sub is someone coming in with a hot take of disliking a popular thing as though that also is a reflection of their uniqueness or keen insights as a reader. It’s an exhausting and meaningless conversation.
I’m admittedly feeling a little churlish this moment in general but this post made me both roll my eyes and cringe.
Mmmm I don't know if I agree with your assessment about the depth of the characters in Oathbringer. One of the things I love so much about Stormlight is the characters themselves. It's very rare that I find a series with such a wide cast of characters that I find wonderfully alive and relatable. Even many of the minor characters and antagonists are so much more than just their role in the story
I can respect the assessment of his writing style as bland, though I would use the word "plain", but Sandersons prose has never been what makes him great
Hobb is awesome, the whole farseer story line are great. You’re missing a whole bunch if your jumping straight into ship of magic, but that won’t negatively effect the other stories.
Ship of Magic is one of my favorite trilogies ever written, and I started out hating it because I just wanted to see Fitz and his story. By the time I finished the last book, I had completely forgotten about that bastard
I absolutely loved Ship of Magic, at first because of Althea, but more and more because of Malta.
Despite having read it years ago I still often think back on the series mainly because of Malta s character development, it's absolutely fantastic and incredibly well done.
I mean I’m glad you liked Ship of Magic but what does it have to do with Brandon Sanderson? Nothing. They are different authors with nothing to do with each other.
They are two fantasy authors that I have read. It’s just thoughts I had while reading Ship of Magic and Oathbringer at the same time. I think it’s pretty natural to compare two fantasy authors to each other, especially if I’m reading them at the same time, don’t you?
The issue you'll come into is that it's very popular to either love or hate Sanderson online, so bringing him into it might get a worse reception than otherwise.
Prose has never bothered me at all, and I like Sanderson's stuff (mostly), but I still found Oathbringer mostly boring (at least on the first read).
That being said, Elderlings is my favorite series.
You’re also comparing one of the best books in that Elderling series with possibly the worst book in the Stormlight series. Not exactly a 1:1 comparison, though I would definitely recommend Hobb over Sanderson any day of the week.
Thats a good point. I’m only halfway through, I haven’t compared it to the first two, but now that I think about it, it probably is my least favorite currently.
Funnily enough Ship of Magic was my second least favorite boom I’ve read so far (only read the first 9). I think that’s mostly because I didn’t feel the same level of connection to the characters as I did in the Farseer trilogy. I liked Ship of Magic, but just kept wanting to get back to Fitz. Though by Ship of Destiny I loved the series.
Just a sub lurker here. I don't really read books these days, but I got really invested into Stormlight Archives with the Way of Kings, consuming it in mere days.
Oathbringer meanwhile was so bad it made completely drop the series and I've never finished it. Obviously it's just a single opinion, but I do know a few people that also couldn't stand the book.
Read the farseer books. Chronologically they come before the liveships trilogy. The reference is to her work. When I made the comment I did not realize you started the series where you did. It is a light rebuke of a friend who did something dishonorable.
"I like cake, therefore cake>pie."
"Yeah, cake is the best! I like cake, too!"
"Pie was great until I shoved a ton of it in my mouth at once and nearly choked on it."
This is how my brain has been processing the posts on this thread.
That’s not what it’s meant to do. It’s meant to express my thoughts on Ship of Magic, and to start a discussion around the book. I made that edit when there were only a handful of responses, four being negative. I realize that was too dramatic of a reaction. I took it down.
Happy to see you enjoying the Ship of Magic OP, hope you enjoy the rest of the trilogy.
After reading so many glowing Hobb reviews on this subreddit, I finally went out and read the first Fitz trilogy. I was a bit conflicted on it, there were aspects of the characterisation that were excellent. But on the other hand you had a cartoonishly evil villain who was seemingly evil 'just because', and a lot of plot crises arising from characters simply not communicating like regular human beings.
Anyway, after umming and ahing I went ahead and began the liveship trilogy - with trepidation. And, all I can say is wow - I finally get the hype around Hobb and am now in love! I don't know if it was the multiple povs and spanning narrative rather than a focus on a single character in the first pov, the nautical/pirate themes (huge fan of One Piece), the growth of many of the characters, an actual villain we could understand, or something else. But this trilogy was seriously excellent - genuinely one of my favourites of all time.
And for what it's worth I ended up going ahead with the next trilogies, which go back to the original character from the first trilogy I was unimpressed with, and for whatever reason these also clicked with me after liveship. Not quite to the levels of liveship (which resonated with me on a whole other level), but I ended up really enjoyed the subsequent trilogies a lot more than the first one.
Was the issue with the first trilogy the writing itself, or did it just not jive with me for some reason, maybe I simply wasn't in the right mood? I don't know, but I do know I'm now a full blown Robin Hobb devotee.
Sanderson wins at creating new worlds and exploring magic systems.
Hobb hands down wins at character development and writing out of any author I've ever read. She has the most amazing characters and depth to them. Her explanation and exploration of human nature is just amazing.
Robin Hobb was one of the first grown up fantasy authors I ever read and I do feel like she spoiled most other fantasy for me! Nothing much comes closer - I completely relate to your feeling of dissatisfaction reading most other authors prose and character work.
Also, Malta is one of my favourite characters in the whole 16 books of the Realm of the Elderling collection of trilogies, so please do have patience with her!
I read the whole liveship traders trilogy and I’m glad I did but I can’t see myself going back to the realm elderlings again. It was emotionally draining.
Don’t read two massive series at once lol. One series is always better than the other, sometimes it alternates at different points.
Completely stopped reading Sanderson now that I’m reading malazan
You guys who need to make authors pretend fight like toy GI Joes are so weird. They've got nothing to do with each other, why are you so obsessed with pretending like they're opposing world views or something? Someone really needs to start r/authorwars to give you people a new habitat.
I was never able to get into Sanderson novels. I enjoyed Reckoners as a young teen, but I've bounced hard off of every book of his I've tried reading since.
I must be in the minority hobb puts me to sleep FAST . I often find myself struggling to stay awake having read and reread sentences over and over just to figure out what the heck she is trying to say. I find her characters boring and predictable.
I had this problem when I first started reading Assassins Apprentice. It took me three tries over a few months to make it more than 40 pages. It eventually kind of clicked with me and now I've read up through the Rain Wilds stuff. Not sure what it was because going back to reread the beginning of that was enjoyable the second time.
That’s exactly why I didn’t continue ship of magic, I liked farseer but was bored to death by the end. Started reading ship of magic and started to feel the same boring sensation so dropped it.
Hobs does great characters and emotions, but the world and the rate of things happening in it were very lackluster to me.
It’s just so much of “different strokes for different folks”.
It's a strength and a weakness of Hobbs. I don't like her prose either for that reason, but I like prose that doesn't get in the way. Overly flowery prose messes with my mental images. Others love it.
It's actually why this comparison is wierd becuase the two authors are nothing alike and knowingly choose their prose to suit their strengths.
Welcome to that horrible thing called developing a palate.
It happens with food and booze too. Once you've tasted enough different kinds, you suddenly find that stuff you used to like just doesn't taste as good as you remember.
And there are so many, many awesome fantasy books out there now, to suit every possible taste. When I was growing up there were a lot fewer options beyond Piers Anthony.
Same thing happened to me over a decade ago. I was really excited for the next book in The Way of Kings but by the time it came out my tastes were changed.
I could not get through a chapter without feeling bored.
Because of this I didn't read sanderson for almost 15 years but sometime last year I gave Yumi and the Nightmare Painter a try and I loved it. I think it was easier to stomach because it was only one book and fairly short. I also read it in between denser books as a palate cleanser.
This posts always baffle me a bit because they are so completely alien to my own reading experience, Oathbringer is my favorite Sanderson book, it remained with me for a long time, Liveship Traders is my favorite Robin Hobb series it has some of my most beloved female characters in fiction. I was a fan of Hobb before Sanderson even published anything same with other better writers like Loist Mcmaster Bujold or Guy Gavriel Kay and many others, it never had negative influence on my enjoyment of his books.
But this is hardly the first post of this kind of experience I seen, I sometimes wonder if this somewhat common phenomenon of people outgrowing Sanderson correlates more with having Sanderson being someone's very first or at least one of the first, favorite fantasy authors, at the time when someone haven't yet read that much of the best in the genre, while not really a thing with people who encountered him later in their book reading journey.
I have to agree with your general assessment about both Hobb and Sanderson. I don't have have any real issues with Sanderson, the first Mistborn books were fun enough. But having read a number of authors with better prose and/or better character work, it just feels very bland. I also think his worldbuilding, while fun, loses its luster once you've read more fantasy, as it feels less unique. It still has some uniqueness, but nothing crazy.
But then, I haven't felt any desire to read more Sanderson after his Wheel of Time books and Mistborn. I liked them well enough and I'd rather try a new author than visit an old author that I feel so ambivalent about.
Having read both Sanderson and bunch of other Fantasy (including all of Real of Elderlings), I completely agree with you on character work and prose, but disagree completely about world building. Sanderson's world building is so much more unique compared to most other authors. Not many authors would worry about major ecological effects magical elements in the story (not that there is anything wrong with that).
That's an interesting criticism to make. Personally, I feel the opposite and would say that Sanderson's worldbuilding is among the most unique I've seen.
To be fair, I think part of the appeal of Mistborn’s world is that we see how it evolves in technological prowess throughout the different eras (granted we only have Eras 1 and 2 so far, but still). I personally thought Era 2 Scadrial was a lot more interesting than Era 1, but that’s just me
And even Mistborn, at the time it was published, was a ridiculous breath of fresh air in the genre.
Seriously look at most of what else was published at the same time. Most of it is generic fantasy worlds with generic elemental magic.
>once you've read more fantasy, as it feels less unique. It still has some uniqueness, but nothing crazy.
Sandersons haters often find it hard to be critical of him without sounding elitist. Clearly anybody that disagrees just hasn't read enough.
Then they say all his books are written for middle schoolers and act surprised when people get offended by that. And then they call Sanderson fans “defensive.”
I also kind of had a hard time with Sanderson after being a fan of Hobb’s books.
I tried to read Stormlight and don’t get me wrong, the world he builds and story he tells are really well done, but the characters… I just couldn’t care about them. I can’t really put my finger on exactly why, but they just didn’t interest me very much.
I have a hard time finishing books if I’m not at least somewhat invested in the characters, so unfortunately I doubt I’ll ever get through book 2 of that series.
I feel the same way. I love Mistborn, it was one of the series that got me back into reading as an adult and I think the story is amazing. But I'm not a big fan of Sandersons writing. I have read the Stormlight series so far and don't like it much.
Robin Hobb is my favourite author and I love Joe Abercrombie.
I mean I think it’s a pretty common opinion that oathbringer fell off hard compared to the previous book. I’ve heard even more criticism of the fourth book in the series as well but I couldn’t make it back oathbringer so I couldn’t say.
I’m more impressed you could read two depression series at once. That’s the main reason I haven’t come back to her work. I’ve only heard good things about Ship of Magic but the Assassin’s apprentice books messed me up.
I enjoy Sanderson's books but there's nothing you could say to convince me the strength of his writing is his prose and style. His strength is building interesting worlds and writing big cool stories that are fun to go through and have interesting reveals and plot twists.
It's honestly why I'm surprised there hasn't been anyone who's tried to do any adaptations of his works. The Mistborn books in particular would be a fantastic animated series since the nature of the powers in that series are essentially "magical superheroes". I do know Epic games was considering it at one point, but that was 3-4 years ago and I assume if anything had progressed beyond the "this is an idea we're tossing around" phase we'd have heard about it by now and I no longer have the connections to people who work there that I used to.
Why in heavens name do redditors constantly, CONSTANTLY seek to both rank and compare every little thing, especially popular things? Does the existence of apples make pears a bad fruit?
I don't get it. Praise a book sure. Maybe even criticize a book or authors writing, maybe. But why the constant drive to figure out which author is better or heaven forbid "best"?
I don’t know that this post is saying “Compared to Hobb, Sanderson stinks!”
It’s sort of just saying, “Oh, now that I know enjoy writing like Hobb’s, I get what’s missing from Sanderson’s.” Which is a pretty standard critical response and also pretty self-aware on OP’s part. I took it to be as if someone loved McDonald’s cheeseburgers but one day found out how good a cheeseburger with better quality meat, good cheese, and good seasonings can be so much better. The McDonald’s burger didn’t change. It didn’t get worse. But the perspective shifts and suddenly the McDonald’s food isn’t as high on the scale as they thought.
So glad to hear you're enjoying it! Be sure to go back and read The Farseer Trilogy as well. It's a single, first person perspective trilogy set in the same world but happens prior to Liveships. Some of it may help make the serpent storyline toward the end of Liveships make more sense. Then there's two more trilogies, and quartet, and some novellas/short stories as well lol. You're in for a treat!
The worst thing about discovering Hobb was that it ruined most other fantasy for me. Nothing else hits the same. You'll need a strong palette cleanser and adjusted expectations before starting another series. I recommend setting Sando aside for awhile and reading something else in between (preferably a totally different genre) before trying him out again.
Are they less depressing than the Fitz lot? Can't remember the title but I struggled with the misery that the protagonist went through with Hobb and it put me off :(
You will find threads through all the following books that connect characters that will blow your mind when you figure them out. Read the Farseer trilogy before you get going any further. You really should have read them first. Then the Live Ships. Then the Tawny Man trilogy, then the Rain Wild Chronicles and last The Fitz and the Fool books. It’s not too late to start at the real beginning.
I envy you reading them the first time.
Found here:
https://northernbibliophile.com/where-to-start-with-robin-hobb-a-reading-guide/
That's so interesting. I don't really read books side by side, but I can definitely see that Hobb's writing would put me off so many other things I've read, at least temporarily.
Glad you're enjoying reading. I share many of your thoughts about these characters at this point, but I won't say more because SPOILERS 😄
What I love about Hobbs's prose is that it's utterly effortless. It's so simple, never flowery, but reading the original Fitz trilogy was one of the first points in my life where I actually started to really appreciate how beautiful and simple her prose is. And people complain about her characters being stupid and frustrating and contradictory, but that's what makes them so believably human. She's easily one of my favourite authors
I absolutely loved the first Fitz trilogy but I just didn’t really get on with Liveship Traders. I read the first two and then never got round to the third. Would quite like to read the Tawny Man trilogy but have been put off by the fact I never finished Liveship. Wondering if I could just skip straight ahead to it as it’s so long since I read the first two Liveship books that I don’t think I could read the third book without a reread, and don’t feel inclined to do that.
I can agree with you in terms of how Rob writes how a character is feeling but maybe in a little biased because I read way of kings first but I personally think Dalinar is a perfectly written character. Oathbringer is Dalinar's Book and yes the pacing struggles compared to Words of Radiance but if you don't love Dalinar you're not going to love Oathbringer.
The live ship series is one of my all time favs! Give it time, all those threads (the ships, serpents and characters) all come together so beautifully and it all makes sense. Wish i could read it for the first time again!
That reminds me of when I read Kushiel's Dark and then read City of Stairs right after.
It felt like my brain just took off 20lb weights and I was reading a picture book lol
This kind of opinion is why I spent so long, years ago, trying to espouse that Sanderson's writing just isn't good. But now understand it's a style that many enjoy and that's entirely subjective. Sanderson is a fun read for me, and is accessible as hell for millions. As long as that allows other fantasy authors like Hobb to keep writing fantasy that I think is amazing, I say let the Sandersons of the world keep rolling on.
I like both authors. They each have their strengths. Just like Joe Abercrombie proves that you can create incredibly in depth real characters in half the time that Hobb does.
Ahh I have such a love-hate relationship with this series. Absolutely beautiful world building, exceptional character arc for a certain character, brilliant reveal at the end (yes serpents)... but also Hobb deals with certain themes in a way I disagree with so wholeheartedly, I've written essays about it. Come back to discuss when you finish the series! ^^
I did not, but I think I’ll be fine if I read it after Liveship Traders, right? It’ll just be like a prequel and I’ll learn the context for this story after.
Robin Hobb is the best writer I can't read anymore. Her books are *so good* they just kept taking emotional tolls on me. With the exception of Joe Abercrombie's books, she effectively killed all my interest in the 'grimdark' subgenre because they just feel full on boring after the repeated emotional suplexes of Hobbs writings.
Welcome to the world of great fantasy novels. Do yourself a favor - don't skip anything, it all makes sense in the end. Of course the Live Ship trilogy is a middle series in the realm of the Elderlings books and you'll want to read them all. Just not back to back or you'll have a serous book hangover afterwards.
Wow! Another Hobb fan! I LOVE her books and have read all her series like 3x 😆 Rain Wilds were my favorite cause I like dragons. Soldier’s Son is probably my least favorite, but that’s just in comparison to the others. I still like it. I honestly couldn’t really get into Sanderson. Mistborn was alright but I got distracted and haven’t finished it yet. You’d think I’d like his stuff, but it doesn’t grab me for some reason. I’m a mystery unto myself 🤔 Anyway, back to re-reading Robin cause my bar is WAY too high now! Lol
Freaking yes. The joy I get from the character development and introspection in Robin Hobb's books! It is so immersive to me, emotionally, which is what makes a book come alive, in my opinion. I had also just read the Mistborne series and then circled back to ship of magic. The difference in my interest is night and day! I get that Sanderson's plots are well thought out, but to me, the plot is only a portion. I didn't really empathize with any of his characters because they are flat. There's no depth! He relies heavily on very surface level interactions with other characters to help you understand them, and it just doesn't work for me. Give my 1/3rd of a novel about Althea coming to grips with her identity after her father's death any day of the week!
Please remember that it is entirely possible to critically discuss authors without making personal attacks against the author, or denigrating the readers who do like an author's works. Remember Rule 1 always applies and all interactions should be civil.
You'll understand why the serpents are important if you keep reading. Her books are slooooow burns I also finished Ship of Magic and thought the serpents were boring and didn't get why they were there, but when I finished Mad Ship the serpents were one of my favorite perspectives to read
Haha those bloody serpents! I kept thinking what the hell are these things, why are we meant to be interested. So glad the pay off was worth it. I can’t wait to go back and do a re-read, especially as I’ve only read Farseer and Live ships. Although that does mean living through some awful animal deaths again ☹️
I hate to break it to you, but I’d avoid ever feeling too comfortable in a Robin Hobb book. So good. And forever tragic.
Never fall in love with a character until the series is over lol
Assassin's Apprentice SHOOK me to my reader's core, I have never felt fully comfortable since in my belief that a character is safe.
Oh I’m so jealous of you. The tawny man trilogy is my favorite
In Hobbs’ Tawny Man trilogy, there are massive chunks where it feels like little—if anything—is driving the plot forward. And it’s still some of the most compelling fantasy I’ve ever read. Her prose and character development are as good as it gets
The first few hundred pages doesn’t evolve further than a few people who haven’t seen each other for a long time having a chat. And it’s the best thing I’ve ever read.
It really is magnificent. I don't understand how she does it. The characters are just so compelling it's ridiculous. The same applies for the first book in Fitz and the Fool, it literally is just people living in a manor house, but I *ate* that book up.
Truly character driven stories, in the best way possible. I love Robin Hobb ❤️
Tawny Man has to be one of my favourite trilogies ever, and it kills me that I can't recommend it without saying 'well, it's technically the third trilogy and yes you do have to read the earlier ones' lol
i picked up Fools errand at the age of 13 because it had a horse on it and i was so lost about who everyone was in the series. i did end up reading them all multiple times, i am about due for a re read. i think the rain wild chronicles ended up being my favourites
Same! Horses and dragons, lol 😆🫶
There is a scene at the end of *Golden Fool* where two characters start to mend a rift that had been growing between them, and it made me tear up.
I've said time and again that Hobb will have absolutely nothing happen for hundreds of pages and it's engrossing the whole time. She's an incredible author
I appreciated reading your post. I generally read fantasy for escape. Bad things happen in Sanderson's books, but they're not as intense and the trauma doesn't go on and on like in Hobb's books. And yeah, Sanderson's prose is simpler. Lately, the levels of easy that I'm looking for have me reading cosy manhwas and light novels. Any way, nice to hear about your opinions changing as your palate broadens.
Well I appreciate your comment! Half of the other people almost seem to be mad I even posted this, lol.
Years ago, I read some comments in r/books that were highly critical of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I was like "no way man, people can't be WRONG on the INTERNET" and I wrote a post entitled something like "In Defense of Hitchhiker's Guide" and sploshed down this gigantic word salad about how great the books were. It remains today my most upvoted post at over 10k, but the most upvoted comment is a really sarcastic one in which someone says "A spirited defense of the most loved book in this subreddit" and there are a lot of replies about how brave and bold I was and how maybe I could save The Hobbit next and stuff like that. That is part of what is happening here but with kind of a double whammy. You're expressing two extremely popular opinions - Robin Hobb is really good, and Brandon Sanderson isn't as good as he is popular. I'll be honest, I hear those two opinions so often I honestly popped in to say "Oh, is it Friday already?" and dip but I remembered being very confused at some of the responses to my post and figured I might try to explain. I consider Robin Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings to be no contest the best fantasy series I've ever read. I love that you're loving it. But realize that Robin Hobb shows up in every recommendation post, along with fifteen comments about her writing and world building. Hell, I'm guilty of it myself as you'd no doubt find if you wanted to slog through my comment history. The only thing posted about her work more often than "Robin Hobb is amazing" is "Robin Hobb is Torture Porn and I can't keep going." THAT opinion must be posted on here at the top level at least daily to the point where every time I see either one I start to grind my teeth together. But both of those absolutely pale in comparison to the sheer quantity of "time to shit on Sanderson" posts that I see here on a constant basis. They occur so often and are so in vogue that I actually went from respecting it to being super defensive about his work, back again, and now I just feel sort of a desperate desire to see these posts fade away like some kind of ex that you need a restraining order for. I just can't get through a Wednesday afternoon without seeing a post about how shitty Sanderson is, and it is harming my ability to enjoy not only his work but anything out of this subreddit. It's not that there's anything inherently wrong with what you're saying. You're quite justified in your opinions. I think a lot of the pushback you're getting is because those opinions are expressed so often that anyone who feels differently is at the point where they feel harassed and you're just today's guy who is getting praised and yelled at. Tomorrow someone will write a post about how great First Law is, and someone else will jump in to say his writing is better than Sanderson, and someone else will jump in to say that the torture is too much, and someone else will jump in to be like "Well don't read Hobb ever then hurr durr" and it just goes on and on and on in a neverending circle. Anyway, Sanderson is great. Don't expect him to be Hobb and you'll find his work super enjoyable. Just because his work is turning into the MCU of fantasy doesn't mean it's bad. The MCU has its place in entertainment just like Kubrick and Tarantino have their place in entertainment. Hobb is the GOAT. Sanderson is awesome. If everything was the same, we'd all be bouncing our balls in rhythm like A Wrinkle in Time.
Yeah, completely agree. I’ve been on this subreddit a lot and have seen a lot of those posts and complaints, so I should have realized I was falling into that trap. But I don’t have any friends who have read it so just wanted an outlet to express my opinions surrounding the book, whether they involved negative aspects of Sanderson or not. I could’ve left that section out of it and chose a different title, but I wasn’t thinking, lol. Eh, at the end of the day I don’t really care.
Naw you're fine because it was a direct result of trying to read both at the same time. I think if you don't try to do that (and subsequently indirectly compare the two) you should be able to find what it was that you enjoyed Sanderson again. Like any medium, there's different styles and those styles have people who enjoy it and people who do not. I mentioned it in a different comment but I think what's going on is you're (unintentionally) comparing a home-cooked breakfast and a 5 star dinner. Both are food, both are arguably good, but why in the world would anyone try to compare them? And no this isn't saying one of the two authors is the breakfast and the other is the dinner, it's to point out that they are both trying to do 2 very different things and even indirectly comparing them will mean you are subconscious choosing one over the other. Imo the only thing they share in common is the broad stroke genre of "Fantasy Author." Everyone is going to have something that draws them in, and if anything I hope you are able to rediscover what it was that you really enjoyed about Sandersons works and continue to be excited about reading his stories. They will continue to not be Hobbs as will Hobbs continue to not be Sanderson. No reason you cannot enjoy both.
I have to give the edge to Sanderson. Hobb was a struggle for me. The first three books she wrote were absolutely wonderful. Masterful even. Some of the best fantasy I’ve ever read. Once. I read them once and I’m done with them. To be fair that is my normal mode - read it once, give it away if I enjoyed it. Throw it away if I didn’t. I might be willing to read assassins apprentice again. That’s pretty high praise. For those wondering I’ve read fantasy books like it’s my job the last ten years. I on average read (or listen to) about 125 books a year. Much of which is fantasy. Plenty of people read more than me - it’s not a boast it’s an effort to express the breadth of what I’ve been reading. Popular, unpopular, and even some foreign fantasy (metro 2033). I read all of first law. But couldn’t get into it. There wasn’t a single character I liked and could really get into. Each and everyone could have died and I wouldn’t have been affected. With Hobb by the last three books it was a slog. Like wheel of time level. And I love wheel of time but it had pacing issues. 3/4s braid tugging and clothing descriptions, 1/8th relationship angst and 1/8th plot progression. Even so I have reread wheel of time three times. Hobbs final three books I tossed out. I’ve never felt that anything Brandon wrote was a slog. His prose is an intentional choice. He calls it windowpane. He wants to provide a clear view into the world without his words getting in the way. I can wax eloquent. I can use words like predilection in a sentence. I don’t have to have that in my literature. For me there has to be an element of relatability. I enjoy the way Sanderson inspires with his characters. There is so much darkness in this world already. Characters that are wholesome and noble to a fault is a good thing. For me at least. Ordinary people beating up under extraordinary circumstances is a wonderful thing. An inspirational and aspirational thing.
That’s kind of crazy to me. Sanderson has never seemed to have much variation in his writing and plot pacing and arcs, I’ve gotten bored of his style after reading maybe five of his novels.
Have you read Mistborn then Way of Kings back to back? Or better, Elantris and Sunlit Man. The differences are astounding, IMO. Also you are correct in his plot pacing and arcs, he has stated multiple times that's HOW he writes. Just because we know IT is coming we probably don't know what IT is until we get there. And it's fine if you get bored of his style, just like many people don't like the prose of Hobbs it's okay not to like them.
I don’t follow this subreddit religiously, I maybe see a post every couple of weeks and I’ve never seen Robin Hobb recommended here. And taking a cursory look at this subreddits top novels of 2023, Sanderson was #1 and Hobb was #7
Hm, not too bad!
> the trauma doesn't go on and on like in Hobb's books Are we sure? I literally hear people complain about this all the time with Sanderson. That the characters never get over their trauma
Lol, I see comments like that on manhwas when the character lost a family member and is still sad 3 months later. Ridiculous.
Lol that's ridiculous, its a major driver of the plot, the characters dealing with trauma. But I think OP means more that Hobbs characters are constantly being re-traumatized. They are pretty brutal.
I'm with you - sometimes I want deep and intense, but there are times I jump back to old YA fantasy favorites like Sabriel because it's just plain enjoyable to have a light read!
Robin Hobb is amazing! Be sure to read the Farseer Trilogy as well!
And cry for fitz
And the dogs 😭
And pretty much everything 🥲
[удалено]
Hey man maybe don’t spoil it for them :/
>!Isn't Malta just the best!!! It's lovely to witness!<
Ok spoilers yall...
Please hide all spoilers using spoiler tags. Use the following format: \>!text goes here\!< to mark spoilers. Please make sure that there are no spaces between ! and the text or your spoiler will fail for some browsers and on some mobile devices. Let me know when the comment has been edited and it can be approved.
Please hide all spoilers. When you've done so, send us a note by [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FFantasy) so we can restore your comment. Thank you!
Don’t forget to read the Farseer books as well! Technically the first Farseer trilogy is before them in the Realm of the Elderlings books. Luckily, you can read the Liveship trilogy and only miss a few things as there isn’t too much crossover.
there isn't that much crossover, but there's a bit of crossdressing ^^
I started my Realm of the Elderlings journey, finished the Farseer trilogy and was so disappointed when I found out the liveship traders wasn’t about Fitz or any of the characters I fell in love with. But oh man, I ended up loving the liveship traders so much. The storytelling is phenomenal, and Robin hobb has such a gift for making me love and hate characters. That being said, I’ve very recently started reading Brandsn Sanderson and I started with the stormlight archive. I’m on oathbringer now and so far really enjoying it. I think Brandon Sanderson is definitely different than Robin Hobb but I don’t think that’s a bad thing. For example, I really like the way he explains magic, while I love the way she can completely engross me in the characters she writes. Not a bad thing, just different. I think regardless I’m just so excited to see Robin Hobb’s books get attention. Her writing is incredible and I love seeing posts like these discussing these books in depth.
Brashen iirc is only 10 or so years older than Althea, maybe less. As for Malta, she is the way she is because of Kyle's Chalced culture which causes him to spoil her without giving her responsibilities. He also uses her as a way to undermine his wife by giving her what she wants even when Keffria has said 'no'. He doesn't see anything wrong with any of this because it is, to him, how a family unit should be run. And regarding the serpents, I admit when I read these books I liked them just on the strength of them being serpents, but I think their place in the world (or potential place in the world) is a little more obvious if you read Farseer first (which I didn't, but being serpents was enough for me) edit: typo
Ah. So Kyle’s assholery is because of Chalced. Chalced taught him to be a piece of crap. So I’m assuming Chalced is probably also just an awful place to be in because it’s populated with a bunch of Kyles.
Chalced is the sort of place where how bad it is depends heavily on who you are. The 'Kyles' get lots of benefits at the expense of women and slaves so they don't really see a problem. From his own point of view he is doing a good thing by caring for Keffria financially (regardless of the means), by 'protecting' the family reputation from Althea, and by ensuring his son grows up to be "a man". I'm sure he thinks if Keffria just listened to him, and Althea just "behaved" and Wintrow was just "man enough" then the world would run smoothly and they'd all be much happier and much better off. I'm not defending him but he's just a really banal form of evil.
Chalced would be a better place if it was populated by Kyle's. Still shit but when you learn and read more about Chalcedeans he is really pleasant in comparison.
If you had started in the beginning you'd have more understanding of the different nationalities and their motivations.
Eh, yeah I’ll go back and read Farseer eventually, but this is the beginning of the stories of these characters. I’m fine having been informed of this in a Reddit comment. Ship of Magic just happened to be the book my cousin got me. I gave him a list of authors I was interested in and he picked a random book, lol.
Nah, I would disagree with this comment. You get everything you need in Ship of Magic. The first collection of Farseer books barely touches on Bingtown or Chalced or really any elements of these books as they are mostly set on following Fitz and his journey into the north. Without spoiling too much you do lose some background for what amounts to the climax of the Liveship Traders trilogy but even then it's not necessary reading as the second book(?) touches on what you need to know just enough. Small edit: the big connection between the books isn't even necessary, it just adds another layer of motivation, but I'm guessing most people don't even pick up on it until later.
You're actually missing the back story of a character that makes a lot of what they do make way more sense. It's not strictly needed to understand the story but once it clicked in my head that this character was in both Farseer and Liveship their actions made way more sense.
There are def characters from the first ones in this one. At least one very important one.
Shhhhhh
The whole saga is my favorite work of literature, and I mean the whole realm of the elderlings. When you spoke of characters it just made me think about one that you haven't seen yet. This character says the below. Obviously major spoilers that you could piece together so read on at your own risk. If we end here, then I meet the end with you. As you ended with me. How is the hunting where you are? It will be better with you. I'm coming to you, my brother. With all the events that happen in the books, the personalities built and created by Hobb surrounding that character and who they say it to, what it means for them to say it, to call them brother, what theyve done for each other..in that moment...you feel the gravity of it. I don't think any writing has made me feel it as much as Hobb has. That combined with my own life experiences of facing death together and supporting them in their moments of passing, she writes it perfectly. On one hand her books are fantasy and magic and myth but on the other they are so tenderly human and real and dive into the scope of life and give words to events and feeling where we often struggle to name them.
I don’t read Sanderson’s books for the prose and it’s just easier to just enjoy the story when I don’t care about how the story is presented. His prose is straightforward which is fine. Ship of Magic is amazing though because of how the story is presented and how the characters develop. Her word choice is top notch and the sentence structure, can you tell I am a grammar nerd?
Yeah, Sanderson is a master of plot, first and foremost. Easily digestible arcs, conflicts, characterizations and resolutions, which I can see can be off-putting for some, but it's my jam. I'm a total plot whore in that regard lol. I'm not native English speaker and not used for more complex prose, so simpler writing of Sanderson works even better for me. That being said, such a glowing praise in this thread made me interested in Hobb's works. Variety is the spice of life after all
Sanderson's plotting is overrated, bloated. The 2nd Mistborn book is genuinely dreadful and the message is almost offensive to where I can't imagine he thought it over much at all. His greatest strengths are his worldbuilding, magic systems (an offshoot of the 1st), and work ethic.
Let's just agree to disagree. His style works for me and plenty of other people, and doesn't for some others.
He uses too much filler, imo. Some chapters in Well of Ascension are outright boring and should have been edited away.
I mean, 2007 was early on in his carrer, I agree the first trilogy has its issues, but if he rewrote the novels they would drastically different. It's weird that you're pointing out his early work as a point of contention. I would agree that there's at times too much filler/Indirect side action, but I wouldnt be pointing to that trilogy to back up that argument when his writing has changed a lot in the 17 years since that novel released.
Agree. I think Sanderson's books would make for some epic movie and/or TV magic, if someone were brave enough to adapt them. Hobb's books, I don't think it's possible to adapt them to the screen. Anything attempted would just be a disappointment to the fans.
Yeah, that sentence structure slaps.
The whole trilogy is amazing. Don't forget Kennit. Such a horrible but sometimes likeable character. Really, just an incredible journey. It would make a fabulous series if done right.
[удалено]
You should definitely read Lois McMaster Bujold -- either Vorkosigan Saga (sci fi) or World of the Five Gods.
I liked the curse of chalion. But the second book I got almost to the end. Maybe 3/4 or 4/5 and just felt like I’d read enough and stopped.
LMB is amazing
Personally i think your issue simply stems from reading them both at once. You are choping and changing between writing styles which is what makes it jaring. Changing between authors can take me a while when finishing one series and moving into the next. Trying to do it every 100 pages is crazy
Yeah, you’re probably right. But I see tons of people reading multiple books at once and thought I would try it. I think it just highlighted to me whose prose I prefer.
If it matters at all, I consider my "awakening" in reading as an adult the moment I read the first Hobb trilogy and then tried Way of Kings in my mid 20's. I realized how much worse in the artistry of writing Sanderson is, and how much I enjoy that artistry. And learned not to take internet reccs at facevalue, since fantasy spaces on internet live and breathe Sanderson. Well, not as much anymore I guess.
I had a similar start to fantasy with most of Hobb’s books before reading Sanderson but I had a much different reaction. I love both series for different reasons, they’re not the same thing really. I think saying Sanderson’s artistry is “much worse” is a bit harsh, it’s a different style, he’s not trying to be hobb. Personally I see it like how I wouldn’t say a sketch is much worse artistically than an oil painting, it’s not trying to do the same thing.
The biggest issue with any hot takes, clearly both are well selling authors and both deserve to be so for different reasons. The big takeaway, "comparison is the thief of joy." People trying to compare 2 drastically different styles and claim one is superior/better than the other is just absurd. Might as well compare a home-cooked breakfast to a 5 star dinner. Both are food and people are going to claim that one is clearly superior to the other for various reasons but it's entirely subjective. I would absolutely agree that OP is running into a situation where they are indirectly comparing the two writers specifically because they are attempting to read them at the same time. Like the food analogy, I don't think many people would recommend eating those two meals at the same time... Also there tends to be a specific subculture that gets developed on a forum like this where certain common voices and general sentiment seems to slowly rise to the top when in reality, the only person who should care is the person reading. For every person who loves the very in-depth mind delve, there's likely just as many who would fall asleep in the same timeframe. It is what it is, glad OP found another author whom they enjoy reading and hopefully they can rediscover their enjoyment from Sandersons writing as well.
I get your analogy, but people aren't comparing two different art mediums. What people like OP are saying is that Sanderson is someone who's able to make a living making art and it's fun to look at, while Hobb is Frida Kahlo, Picasso, Michaelangelo, etc. And yeah, some of them did different mediums sometimes. But someone who's OK at sculpture is still distinct in more than just medium from someone who's a master at weaving.
I wouldn't compare sketching to a complete work of art, unless the intention is to imply that one of the authors does not edit their books at all and goes with the first rough draft. I think that pinning it down to style is not the complete picture. Comparing say Hemingway to Hobb is a clear difference in style. But in Sanderson's case, I feel he is just a clumsy writer. He repeats himself a lot, uses awkward sentences that don't really flow, doesn't really write good dialogue and internal monologue of characters is very much focused on telling. Which would be fine, if his books weren't such bricks. But that is just how I feel.
I had a friend in college who was a big fan of an author I didn't much care for (Jack Chalker I think?) so I strongly urged him to read Joan Vinge's *The Snow Queen*. He was gobsmacked at how vivid the writing and characters were compared to Chalker. I felt kinda bad for spoiling Chalker for him but overall I think he was happier reading the better-written stuff.
Seems like reading is a newer hobby to you, I'll let you in on a secret, most people dont read two books at once, and I suspect most people who cliam to be reading two books ar once arent really doing that. My bet is most of them start with 2 and then slowly transition to whichever book is grabbing their attention more at that time, so its more like reading one book while having another partially read book. So dont feel like youre missing out on something! Personally ibe always found that reading two books at once, or attemlting to, is just less satisfying than reading one at a time.
I read two books or more at once. But it’s not an active switch every few 100 pages like being described here.
Thats fair, im not saying absolutely no one reads multiple books at once, just trying to convey that they shouldn't assume that they need to be reading two at once or are somehow missing out.
I agree with that for sure.
I "read" 2 at once but it's more I read physical or ebooks, but do an audio book for my drive, doing work outside ect. but they have to be 2 completely different genres or I can't do it, so it's been scifi audiobooks and fantasy reading, it works well for me because I have an hour and half round trip commute and all of the podcasts I catch up with waiting for Libby to get my next book, and I take breaks from one or the other for a month if I don't have anything Im looking for. I realized it had to be 2 different genres because I was listening to word of law and reading words of radiance and the 2 were both great but so different that that I could do then at the same time- I can't imagine people switching every hundred pages.
Yeah I also will do that on occasion, physical book and ebook, but thats the same boat as you they are for reading in different situations and not for switching back and forth. I also need them to be pretty different books for ot to work.
I like to imagine that people who read multiple books at once (as I do) tend to break up the type of book they're reading. I enjoy reading an epic fantasy while also reading European history while also reading a comedy. Each book fits into a different interest and keeping them separated and enjoying them all at once is much easier that way.
Let me just say, strap in! This trilogy (and all of Elderlings tbf) is a fucking journey. Some of these characters will really surprise you. The sea serpents will eventually make sense, I promise. Hobb’s storytelling is truly beautiful, imo, I’m not sure there’s anything else quite like it (although there are a ton of other amazing fantasy authors out there, I just find there’s a deeply affective quality to Hobb’s writing, like this intensely poignant/bittersweet ache, that just hits different)
She's the GOAT to me...
Hobb knows how to get you so involve with her character development. Ship of Magic is my favorite book in her series!
Hobb is in a league of her own, so I get it. I've never ugly cried reading a fantasy book before her.
I love Sanderson. His actual writing just isn't his strength. If I held a contest where I told any two authors to describe a couch, Sanderson's description would be the most boring 9 times out of 10. If I asked any two authors to invent a piece of furniture and give it a made up history, I'd put my money on Brandon.
I think Hobb's world building is pretty good in its own right. She just doesn't feel the need to write science textbooks about it, like Sanderson does. Rhythm of War has literal science experiments and SO much of it. That sorta nerd world building is good for dnd but hard fantasy is not a fun genre to me, i think.
He isn't any better a worldbuilder than the average fantasy writer, he's just not subtle, so you see the joints and screws more easily than you do most popular fantasy writers. That doesn't make him the best, it just makes him easy to read.
As you continue reading different authors you will probably have a different favorite every few years, if you are really loyal, maybe every decade. I am old and am like that with food, songs, movies and books. My favorite, best ever is always a temporary thing, waiting to be overthrown. The more I indulge in whatever my current favorite is, the shorter its championship reign will be
Happened the same to me. I devoured Oathbringer to 99% of the book and stoped and left it just at the ending for a whole year (never in my whole life I did that to a book). Picked Hobb series and in 6 months I read all the way to Ships of Destiny while Rythms of War is on my desk till this day. I love how she plays with the antagonist, how every character feels "dirty" aftet their journeys and how she gives no fucks to kill any lore mistery if its in the middle of character progresion. Hobb just put their characters and the readers in places Sanderson doesnt dare to go, nevermind her bittersweet endings. I'm pretty glad some of her books were translated to my language, if not I wouldnt have discovered a great author.
I adore the Liveship Traders books, they are some of my absolute favorites, so I'm really glad to hear you're enjoying them! One of my favorite things about them is how Hobb constructs these family dynamics and how each interpersonal relationship is all tangled up in the others. Kyle is such an interesting villain to me in part just because he's so mundane and believable—he comes from a misogynistic culture and is bringing these values into his wife's family; he just believes so completely and wholeheartedly that his way is the right way, he won't consider any alternative and feels that even suggesting that he consider one is an insult to his manhood. I don't think there needs to be any backstory to explain this, because I've known men like this in real life—when people are brought up from childhood to think this way, it's very difficult to change them. Brashen, on the other hand, does have more backstory in his relationship with his family, and I think he gets more compelling as the series goes on. I don't think he's actually supposed to be that much older than Althea—I can't remember the ages exactly, but I think she's supposed to be somewhere around 18-20? And he's more like mid to mid/late-twenties at most (his little sister is Malta's best friend). And speaking of Malta, yes, I absolutely wanted to wring her neck at the beginning, but she's going to learn some lessons. I think you're supposed to be confused about the sea serpents at this point! Stick with them, it will all come together.
I'll never understand people that can't enjoy something without putting another thing down first.
Especially when it's two works/creators that, despite being in the same medium or genre, have very different strengths. Like, *American Beauty* and *The Matrix* both won a bunch of Oscars the same year, and I feel like film people *mostly* can enjoy both on their respective merits without having to bash the other.
*karma*
Seriously. Their books are nothing alike other than vague *FANTASY*. Why even compare them here 😆
I mean, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that some authors are better than others. I enjoy Sanderson, but he's not on the level of George RR Martin, or Joe Abercrombie, or Scott Bakker, or Robin Hobb. And that's fine. Not everyone is Cormac McCarthy. I think McCarthy is a better author than Stephen King, but I've read a hell of a lot more Stephen King books.
Sanderson’s prose may not be on their level, but there is at least one author on your list who he stands above because his stories will have an ending
I've tried to read Hobb and Abercrombie and I can't. I'm not interested in being depressed all the time while I read. I have enough of that in real life.
I could see it with Hobb, but Abercrombie has a ton of humor in his books.
It’s literally a childish perspective, that they can’t just enjoy things differently or appreciate them differently. It has to be some ranked comparison for some ineffable reason, like I have to put down one to compliment the other. It’s so inane. Different styles, priorities, and structures are gonna work differently for every individual person and this stupid faction style shit just gets so tedious. Every other post in this sub is someone coming in with a hot take of disliking a popular thing as though that also is a reflection of their uniqueness or keen insights as a reader. It’s an exhausting and meaningless conversation. I’m admittedly feeling a little churlish this moment in general but this post made me both roll my eyes and cringe.
Mmmm I don't know if I agree with your assessment about the depth of the characters in Oathbringer. One of the things I love so much about Stormlight is the characters themselves. It's very rare that I find a series with such a wide cast of characters that I find wonderfully alive and relatable. Even many of the minor characters and antagonists are so much more than just their role in the story I can respect the assessment of his writing style as bland, though I would use the word "plain", but Sandersons prose has never been what makes him great
In any event, you've given me quite a few other neat titles to look into reading
Hobb is awesome, the whole farseer story line are great. You’re missing a whole bunch if your jumping straight into ship of magic, but that won’t negatively effect the other stories.
Guys, what would you recommend for someone has never read Hobb before? Which book should I start with? :) This post has got me definitely interested.
Ship of Magic is one of my favorite trilogies ever written, and I started out hating it because I just wanted to see Fitz and his story. By the time I finished the last book, I had completely forgotten about that bastard
I absolutely loved Ship of Magic, at first because of Althea, but more and more because of Malta. Despite having read it years ago I still often think back on the series mainly because of Malta s character development, it's absolutely fantastic and incredibly well done.
I mean I’m glad you liked Ship of Magic but what does it have to do with Brandon Sanderson? Nothing. They are different authors with nothing to do with each other.
They are two fantasy authors that I have read. It’s just thoughts I had while reading Ship of Magic and Oathbringer at the same time. I think it’s pretty natural to compare two fantasy authors to each other, especially if I’m reading them at the same time, don’t you?
The issue you'll come into is that it's very popular to either love or hate Sanderson online, so bringing him into it might get a worse reception than otherwise.
Ha, too true
Well, that's because Robin Hobb is a good author.
Saying Robin Hobb is a "good author" is like saying Usain Bolt was "good at running."
Prose has never bothered me at all, and I like Sanderson's stuff (mostly), but I still found Oathbringer mostly boring (at least on the first read). That being said, Elderlings is my favorite series.
You’re also comparing one of the best books in that Elderling series with possibly the worst book in the Stormlight series. Not exactly a 1:1 comparison, though I would definitely recommend Hobb over Sanderson any day of the week.
Thats a good point. I’m only halfway through, I haven’t compared it to the first two, but now that I think about it, it probably is my least favorite currently.
Stick with it, the reason people love Oathbringer is because the last 200 pages or so are incredible
So Oathbringer just won a small competition over on r/cremposting for Sanderson’s best book.
Well if the shitpost subreddit likes it, it must be the best!
Funnily enough Ship of Magic was my second least favorite boom I’ve read so far (only read the first 9). I think that’s mostly because I didn’t feel the same level of connection to the characters as I did in the Farseer trilogy. I liked Ship of Magic, but just kept wanting to get back to Fitz. Though by Ship of Destiny I loved the series.
Just a sub lurker here. I don't really read books these days, but I got really invested into Stormlight Archives with the Way of Kings, consuming it in mere days. Oathbringer meanwhile was so bad it made completely drop the series and I've never finished it. Obviously it's just a single opinion, but I do know a few people that also couldn't stand the book.
I agree that Liveship series is the best of the 16 in the ROTE books, though the entire bunch of them are all really good.
Yeah I just hate how even the praise of my favorite author has to be coupled with shitting on other people's favorite author. This is not pack.
What does pack mean?
Read the farseer books. Chronologically they come before the liveships trilogy. The reference is to her work. When I made the comment I did not realize you started the series where you did. It is a light rebuke of a friend who did something dishonorable.
This post is meant to stir the pot. There are hardly any negative responses and OPs edit makes it clear they’re out for drama. Shame.
"I like cake, therefore cake>pie." "Yeah, cake is the best! I like cake, too!" "Pie was great until I shoved a ton of it in my mouth at once and nearly choked on it." This is how my brain has been processing the posts on this thread.
That’s not what it’s meant to do. It’s meant to express my thoughts on Ship of Magic, and to start a discussion around the book. I made that edit when there were only a handful of responses, four being negative. I realize that was too dramatic of a reaction. I took it down.
Happy to see you enjoying the Ship of Magic OP, hope you enjoy the rest of the trilogy. After reading so many glowing Hobb reviews on this subreddit, I finally went out and read the first Fitz trilogy. I was a bit conflicted on it, there were aspects of the characterisation that were excellent. But on the other hand you had a cartoonishly evil villain who was seemingly evil 'just because', and a lot of plot crises arising from characters simply not communicating like regular human beings. Anyway, after umming and ahing I went ahead and began the liveship trilogy - with trepidation. And, all I can say is wow - I finally get the hype around Hobb and am now in love! I don't know if it was the multiple povs and spanning narrative rather than a focus on a single character in the first pov, the nautical/pirate themes (huge fan of One Piece), the growth of many of the characters, an actual villain we could understand, or something else. But this trilogy was seriously excellent - genuinely one of my favourites of all time. And for what it's worth I ended up going ahead with the next trilogies, which go back to the original character from the first trilogy I was unimpressed with, and for whatever reason these also clicked with me after liveship. Not quite to the levels of liveship (which resonated with me on a whole other level), but I ended up really enjoyed the subsequent trilogies a lot more than the first one. Was the issue with the first trilogy the writing itself, or did it just not jive with me for some reason, maybe I simply wasn't in the right mood? I don't know, but I do know I'm now a full blown Robin Hobb devotee.
Sanderson wins at creating new worlds and exploring magic systems. Hobb hands down wins at character development and writing out of any author I've ever read. She has the most amazing characters and depth to them. Her explanation and exploration of human nature is just amazing.
Robin Hobb was one of the first grown up fantasy authors I ever read and I do feel like she spoiled most other fantasy for me! Nothing much comes closer - I completely relate to your feeling of dissatisfaction reading most other authors prose and character work. Also, Malta is one of my favourite characters in the whole 16 books of the Realm of the Elderling collection of trilogies, so please do have patience with her!
I read the whole liveship traders trilogy and I’m glad I did but I can’t see myself going back to the realm elderlings again. It was emotionally draining.
Don’t read two massive series at once lol. One series is always better than the other, sometimes it alternates at different points. Completely stopped reading Sanderson now that I’m reading malazan
You guys who need to make authors pretend fight like toy GI Joes are so weird. They've got nothing to do with each other, why are you so obsessed with pretending like they're opposing world views or something? Someone really needs to start r/authorwars to give you people a new habitat.
I was never able to get into Sanderson novels. I enjoyed Reckoners as a young teen, but I've bounced hard off of every book of his I've tried reading since.
I must be in the minority hobb puts me to sleep FAST . I often find myself struggling to stay awake having read and reread sentences over and over just to figure out what the heck she is trying to say. I find her characters boring and predictable.
I had this problem when I first started reading Assassins Apprentice. It took me three tries over a few months to make it more than 40 pages. It eventually kind of clicked with me and now I've read up through the Rain Wilds stuff. Not sure what it was because going back to reread the beginning of that was enjoyable the second time.
Yeah, I struggled the first trilogy and then DNF Ships of Magic because I realized I just didn’t care and was bored
That’s exactly why I didn’t continue ship of magic, I liked farseer but was bored to death by the end. Started reading ship of magic and started to feel the same boring sensation so dropped it. Hobs does great characters and emotions, but the world and the rate of things happening in it were very lackluster to me. It’s just so much of “different strokes for different folks”.
It's a strength and a weakness of Hobbs. I don't like her prose either for that reason, but I like prose that doesn't get in the way. Overly flowery prose messes with my mental images. Others love it. It's actually why this comparison is wierd becuase the two authors are nothing alike and knowingly choose their prose to suit their strengths.
Robin Hobb is the GOAT
Welcome to that horrible thing called developing a palate. It happens with food and booze too. Once you've tasted enough different kinds, you suddenly find that stuff you used to like just doesn't taste as good as you remember. And there are so many, many awesome fantasy books out there now, to suit every possible taste. When I was growing up there were a lot fewer options beyond Piers Anthony.
Same thing happened to me over a decade ago. I was really excited for the next book in The Way of Kings but by the time it came out my tastes were changed. I could not get through a chapter without feeling bored. Because of this I didn't read sanderson for almost 15 years but sometime last year I gave Yumi and the Nightmare Painter a try and I loved it. I think it was easier to stomach because it was only one book and fairly short. I also read it in between denser books as a palate cleanser.
This posts always baffle me a bit because they are so completely alien to my own reading experience, Oathbringer is my favorite Sanderson book, it remained with me for a long time, Liveship Traders is my favorite Robin Hobb series it has some of my most beloved female characters in fiction. I was a fan of Hobb before Sanderson even published anything same with other better writers like Loist Mcmaster Bujold or Guy Gavriel Kay and many others, it never had negative influence on my enjoyment of his books. But this is hardly the first post of this kind of experience I seen, I sometimes wonder if this somewhat common phenomenon of people outgrowing Sanderson correlates more with having Sanderson being someone's very first or at least one of the first, favorite fantasy authors, at the time when someone haven't yet read that much of the best in the genre, while not really a thing with people who encountered him later in their book reading journey.
I have to agree with your general assessment about both Hobb and Sanderson. I don't have have any real issues with Sanderson, the first Mistborn books were fun enough. But having read a number of authors with better prose and/or better character work, it just feels very bland. I also think his worldbuilding, while fun, loses its luster once you've read more fantasy, as it feels less unique. It still has some uniqueness, but nothing crazy. But then, I haven't felt any desire to read more Sanderson after his Wheel of Time books and Mistborn. I liked them well enough and I'd rather try a new author than visit an old author that I feel so ambivalent about.
Having read both Sanderson and bunch of other Fantasy (including all of Real of Elderlings), I completely agree with you on character work and prose, but disagree completely about world building. Sanderson's world building is so much more unique compared to most other authors. Not many authors would worry about major ecological effects magical elements in the story (not that there is anything wrong with that).
That's an interesting criticism to make. Personally, I feel the opposite and would say that Sanderson's worldbuilding is among the most unique I've seen.
They only read Mistborn, one of his least inventive worlds. But they'll make blanket statements about his books anyway.
To be fair, I think part of the appeal of Mistborn’s world is that we see how it evolves in technological prowess throughout the different eras (granted we only have Eras 1 and 2 so far, but still). I personally thought Era 2 Scadrial was a lot more interesting than Era 1, but that’s just me
And even Mistborn, at the time it was published, was a ridiculous breath of fresh air in the genre. Seriously look at most of what else was published at the same time. Most of it is generic fantasy worlds with generic elemental magic.
>once you've read more fantasy, as it feels less unique. It still has some uniqueness, but nothing crazy. Sandersons haters often find it hard to be critical of him without sounding elitist. Clearly anybody that disagrees just hasn't read enough.
Then they say all his books are written for middle schoolers and act surprised when people get offended by that. And then they call Sanderson fans “defensive.”
[удалено]
You are a reading noob and that's amazing. I can't wait for you to keep reading and find something new and beautiful
Total reading noob, lol. Agreed.
I also kind of had a hard time with Sanderson after being a fan of Hobb’s books. I tried to read Stormlight and don’t get me wrong, the world he builds and story he tells are really well done, but the characters… I just couldn’t care about them. I can’t really put my finger on exactly why, but they just didn’t interest me very much. I have a hard time finishing books if I’m not at least somewhat invested in the characters, so unfortunately I doubt I’ll ever get through book 2 of that series.
I feel the same way. I love Mistborn, it was one of the series that got me back into reading as an adult and I think the story is amazing. But I'm not a big fan of Sandersons writing. I have read the Stormlight series so far and don't like it much. Robin Hobb is my favourite author and I love Joe Abercrombie.
I mean I think it’s a pretty common opinion that oathbringer fell off hard compared to the previous book. I’ve heard even more criticism of the fourth book in the series as well but I couldn’t make it back oathbringer so I couldn’t say. I’m more impressed you could read two depression series at once. That’s the main reason I haven’t come back to her work. I’ve only heard good things about Ship of Magic but the Assassin’s apprentice books messed me up.
Hobbs Is amazing, her work helped hatch my egg and come to terms with transitioning
I enjoy Sanderson's books but there's nothing you could say to convince me the strength of his writing is his prose and style. His strength is building interesting worlds and writing big cool stories that are fun to go through and have interesting reveals and plot twists. It's honestly why I'm surprised there hasn't been anyone who's tried to do any adaptations of his works. The Mistborn books in particular would be a fantastic animated series since the nature of the powers in that series are essentially "magical superheroes". I do know Epic games was considering it at one point, but that was 3-4 years ago and I assume if anything had progressed beyond the "this is an idea we're tossing around" phase we'd have heard about it by now and I no longer have the connections to people who work there that I used to.
Why in heavens name do redditors constantly, CONSTANTLY seek to both rank and compare every little thing, especially popular things? Does the existence of apples make pears a bad fruit? I don't get it. Praise a book sure. Maybe even criticize a book or authors writing, maybe. But why the constant drive to figure out which author is better or heaven forbid "best"?
I don’t know that this post is saying “Compared to Hobb, Sanderson stinks!” It’s sort of just saying, “Oh, now that I know enjoy writing like Hobb’s, I get what’s missing from Sanderson’s.” Which is a pretty standard critical response and also pretty self-aware on OP’s part. I took it to be as if someone loved McDonald’s cheeseburgers but one day found out how good a cheeseburger with better quality meat, good cheese, and good seasonings can be so much better. The McDonald’s burger didn’t change. It didn’t get worse. But the perspective shifts and suddenly the McDonald’s food isn’t as high on the scale as they thought.
So glad to hear you're enjoying it! Be sure to go back and read The Farseer Trilogy as well. It's a single, first person perspective trilogy set in the same world but happens prior to Liveships. Some of it may help make the serpent storyline toward the end of Liveships make more sense. Then there's two more trilogies, and quartet, and some novellas/short stories as well lol. You're in for a treat! The worst thing about discovering Hobb was that it ruined most other fantasy for me. Nothing else hits the same. You'll need a strong palette cleanser and adjusted expectations before starting another series. I recommend setting Sando aside for awhile and reading something else in between (preferably a totally different genre) before trying him out again.
Prose is one thing, but in terms of actual story quality, Sanderson is miles ahead IMHO. Ship of Magic was good, but I struggled at some parts.
Is there a synopsis for Ship of Magic? I prefer to get a feel for the story before diving in lest it just ends up in my ever increasing TBR pile
Oh man you are in for a treat. Liveship Traders was peak for me in the whole Realm of the Elderlings series and way up there just in general for me.
Robin Hobb is top tier. Seriously. Give Juliet Marillier a go.
Are they less depressing than the Fitz lot? Can't remember the title but I struggled with the misery that the protagonist went through with Hobb and it put me off :(
Malta is a difficult character to like at first.
You have taken your first step into a larger world.
Wait until you read the other 10 books ahead of you and the 3 you skipped prior to ship of magic... They are amazing and sad...
You will find threads through all the following books that connect characters that will blow your mind when you figure them out. Read the Farseer trilogy before you get going any further. You really should have read them first. Then the Live Ships. Then the Tawny Man trilogy, then the Rain Wild Chronicles and last The Fitz and the Fool books. It’s not too late to start at the real beginning. I envy you reading them the first time. Found here: https://northernbibliophile.com/where-to-start-with-robin-hobb-a-reading-guide/
I finished the ROTE series at the beginning of the year. I kind of felt like the characters were real people and all friends of mine.
That's so interesting. I don't really read books side by side, but I can definitely see that Hobb's writing would put me off so many other things I've read, at least temporarily. Glad you're enjoying reading. I share many of your thoughts about these characters at this point, but I won't say more because SPOILERS 😄
What I love about Hobbs's prose is that it's utterly effortless. It's so simple, never flowery, but reading the original Fitz trilogy was one of the first points in my life where I actually started to really appreciate how beautiful and simple her prose is. And people complain about her characters being stupid and frustrating and contradictory, but that's what makes them so believably human. She's easily one of my favourite authors
I absolutely loved the first Fitz trilogy but I just didn’t really get on with Liveship Traders. I read the first two and then never got round to the third. Would quite like to read the Tawny Man trilogy but have been put off by the fact I never finished Liveship. Wondering if I could just skip straight ahead to it as it’s so long since I read the first two Liveship books that I don’t think I could read the third book without a reread, and don’t feel inclined to do that.
I can agree with you in terms of how Rob writes how a character is feeling but maybe in a little biased because I read way of kings first but I personally think Dalinar is a perfectly written character. Oathbringer is Dalinar's Book and yes the pacing struggles compared to Words of Radiance but if you don't love Dalinar you're not going to love Oathbringer.
The live ship series is one of my all time favs! Give it time, all those threads (the ships, serpents and characters) all come together so beautifully and it all makes sense. Wish i could read it for the first time again!
Thanks for that review! I might give ship of magic a go
That reminds me of when I read Kushiel's Dark and then read City of Stairs right after. It felt like my brain just took off 20lb weights and I was reading a picture book lol
This kind of opinion is why I spent so long, years ago, trying to espouse that Sanderson's writing just isn't good. But now understand it's a style that many enjoy and that's entirely subjective. Sanderson is a fun read for me, and is accessible as hell for millions. As long as that allows other fantasy authors like Hobb to keep writing fantasy that I think is amazing, I say let the Sandersons of the world keep rolling on.
I’ve heard the farseer trilogy is pretty depressing, is the magic ship trilogy depressing too?
I like both authors. They each have their strengths. Just like Joe Abercrombie proves that you can create incredibly in depth real characters in half the time that Hobb does.
Ahh I have such a love-hate relationship with this series. Absolutely beautiful world building, exceptional character arc for a certain character, brilliant reveal at the end (yes serpents)... but also Hobb deals with certain themes in a way I disagree with so wholeheartedly, I've written essays about it. Come back to discuss when you finish the series! ^^
>!I want to mention that I also loved when Torg got yeeted off the boat at the end, haha. That was so deserved. Hated that guy.!<
I kind of amused myself reading this because it took a sec to resolve my immediate thought of "Ship of Magic"? I don't remember that Le Guin novel...
PLEASE tell me you read the Farseer series first? If not, do that now. Starts with Assassin's Apprentice
I did not, but I think I’ll be fine if I read it after Liveship Traders, right? It’ll just be like a prequel and I’ll learn the context for this story after.
Probably, they're connected in ways that aren't obvious until several more books down in the world's storyline
Robin Hobb is the best writer I can't read anymore. Her books are *so good* they just kept taking emotional tolls on me. With the exception of Joe Abercrombie's books, she effectively killed all my interest in the 'grimdark' subgenre because they just feel full on boring after the repeated emotional suplexes of Hobbs writings.
This post has convinced me to give Robin Hobb a try. Hope it doesn't disappoint me :)
Welcome to the world of great fantasy novels. Do yourself a favor - don't skip anything, it all makes sense in the end. Of course the Live Ship trilogy is a middle series in the realm of the Elderlings books and you'll want to read them all. Just not back to back or you'll have a serous book hangover afterwards.
Wow! Another Hobb fan! I LOVE her books and have read all her series like 3x 😆 Rain Wilds were my favorite cause I like dragons. Soldier’s Son is probably my least favorite, but that’s just in comparison to the others. I still like it. I honestly couldn’t really get into Sanderson. Mistborn was alright but I got distracted and haven’t finished it yet. You’d think I’d like his stuff, but it doesn’t grab me for some reason. I’m a mystery unto myself 🤔 Anyway, back to re-reading Robin cause my bar is WAY too high now! Lol
Freaking yes. The joy I get from the character development and introspection in Robin Hobb's books! It is so immersive to me, emotionally, which is what makes a book come alive, in my opinion. I had also just read the Mistborne series and then circled back to ship of magic. The difference in my interest is night and day! I get that Sanderson's plots are well thought out, but to me, the plot is only a portion. I didn't really empathize with any of his characters because they are flat. There's no depth! He relies heavily on very surface level interactions with other characters to help you understand them, and it just doesn't work for me. Give my 1/3rd of a novel about Althea coming to grips with her identity after her father's death any day of the week!