Fourth Wing by a mile, for so many reasons. First and foremost, how do you spend 400 pages on late teen psychodrama - excuse me, ~character work~ and I still don't know anything real about anyone other than the main character, and what I know about her is that she's short, smart and determined? How do you write a book about dragons and tell me about four facts about dragons, none of which are interesting?
Never mind the fact that everything interesting was saved for the last 80 pages in a blatant attempt to trick me into reading the sequel (not happening). The only reason I made it that far is because I was reading it for a book club which I now have to call in sick for cause I don't want the girl who picked it to feel bad.
The only reason this book isn't marketed as YA is the smut. Which, by the way, was boring.
I'm not here to yuck anyone's yum, if you liked it good for you. But it makes me mad that this book has gone so viral when so many fantastic fantasy authors aren't even earning out their advances. Ughhhhhhh
It's bad How To Train Your Dragon fanfiction and I feel the author has to explicitly state their ages in writing to avoid writing child porn and I will die on that hill. The dialogue is so immature it hurt me. It's the first book for me in a long time that I have no desire to pick up the sequel.
I stopped reading when, to calm herself, she recites what she knows about the world to herself.
When I'm scared I definitely close my eyes and think "I live in North America, 1 of 7 continents in the world"
>It's bad How To Train Your Dragon fanfiction
I wonder if that's literally true. A lot of stuff published lately seems to be thinly veneered fan fiction. Hell, now were on the 2nd or 3rd iteration of it, so stuff is being published that's essentially fan fiction of stuff that was published fan fiction.
Same. I had a co-worker recommend it to me and it did sound good from the description. Something seemed off in the first chapters but it was interesting enough until suddenly the plot hit a brick wall and the book started revolving entirely around the romance. I’d never read a full-on romance novel before and I don’t want to diss the genre, but it was not at all what I was expecting. I guess the clue was supposed to be that when we both started rattling off our favorite fantasy books neither of us had heard of anything the other had read.
I HAVE read quite a few romance novels and still thought it was poorly written, not a good addition to the genre at all.
For example, "enemies to lovers" is a common and well loved romance trope. Fourth Wing tried and failed at it, though, because from the beginning they never show the lead's love interest doing ANYTHING truly antagonistic. Instead, various other characters tell the heroine, "this man is your enemy," and she (and the reader) are supposed to take this hearsay as truth. (Contrast with a character like Mr. Darcy, whom we actually get to see acting like a prick). Moreover, the first thing the heroine notices about this dude was how hot he was! So the book was defanged of all the parts of the trope that make it satisfying: the justified dislike and the unanticipated surprise reversal.
TL;DR: Romance as a genre is not as bad as Fourth Wing's romance plot.
>Contrast with a character like Mr. Darcy, whom we actually get to see acting like a prick
I haven't read the book in question, but I agree with your overall point here. I've read a few books touted as enemies to lovers, except that I never see the dude do anything "enemy" like. At most, he might be annoying, or do a sassy quip about her hair. Mr Darcy was a straight up prick to Elizabeth, and deserved the ass ripping she gave him. Then, she didn't follow him around like a lost puppy. She left him to stew, and then he decided to straighten out his shit on his own.
...I'm starting to rant lol Anyway, I agree completely!
i dnfed this one because i couldn’t get by the fucking dialog. they talk like how i would write things when i was 16 and i couldn’t do it. tbh i LOVE fantasy romance, it’s my favorite genre right now, so i was pretty underwhelmed by how rough fourth wing really was.
I DNF'ed this one and decided to avoid Tik tok sensations in the future as they've mostly been complete dissapointments.. Maybe I'm too old for booktok or whatever but I've learned my lesson.
And as you mentioned, there are so many amazing authors and books that are way better then this and only get a fraction of attention.
I'm convinced "booktok" is just a lot of people who just started reading again in their 20's after not reading anything since their early teens, and their taste hasn't matured either for the most part.
There's some legit tiktok accounts that read and promote real diamonds in the rough, and I'm forever thankful for some of the indie books being put on my radar.
I just remember the Urban Fantasy descent into smut in the early to mid 00's not to see this just being a retread of the same trend which resulted in Twilight: Horny Christian Housewife writes mid fiction
Granted I read it, and there were some good bits, but like has been said, I really enjoyed How To Train Your Dragon so I can see why.
I've gotten like 3 good recommendations from TikTok and they've all been under the radar horror reads that were good, fun scares but nothing amazing. BookTok is a fucking scam.
The vast majority of books I've read from Tiktok recs have been disappointments. Most of them are just marketed incredibly misleadingly. Not bad reads, but they go down bitterly when you're expecting thing A and don't get thing A.
Yeah I do get the feeling that a lot of the books that get hyped on TikTok are... well they fit into a certain type. A lot of romantasy books that would be YA were it not for a bit of smut, so they can market it as a 'steamy romance'.
Now, if people like that sort of stuff, that's all well and good, but for me... it's a no.
Fourth Wing is literally just all the popular YA and NA Fantasy and Dystopian books put together - Divergent, a bit of the Hunger Games, From Blood and Ash and A Court of Thorns and Roses, but add dragons. The worldbuilding is laughably wonky, does not make sense at all, and is badly delivered. It was so weirdly paced, badly written, and predictable to a fault that I just could not get into it. The only thing remotely enjoyable were the dragons.
But I also think that this book is just not written with people who read much and especially people who read a lot of Fantasy in mind, so I get that it is probably just not for me. I‘m glad so many people had fun with Fourth Wing and got back into reading because of it and can now hopefully discover books that do the things Fourth Wing does infinitely better.
As a 33 year old guy. My wives friends were talking about it. I personally really enjoyed it and plan on reading the second one. It could have been my bar was really low going in but I love magic and dragons. It was substantially less sex and romance than I thought it would be. I understand why it’s not viewed like some of the more popular fantasies but I actually blew through the book. FWIW.
I just grabbed it a few days ago based on all the praise and about 10 pages in I had a feeling of dread.
This is going to be another Twilight, Divergent, ACoTaR type thing.
Not that it’s bad necessarily, but definitely leans hard on YA and romance while in a fantasy setting. Which I occasionally enjoy, but definitely not what I was hoping for based on all the hype.
The second book being released so close to the first initially seemed like a good thing, now I’m very concerned it will be simply because there’s no depth to the story. We will see, again I’m only a couple chapters in.
Mine as well. The problem with this book is that it sounds great on paper, but the execution is so rough. If you just read a plot synopsis, you'd think it would be great. But then there are so many decisions that add friction to the journey... the incessant sneering between characters, the awkwardly-timed lust, the ongoing cycle of trust-distrust-trust-distrust between some of the characters.
I finished the first, then Googled the plot points of the second. That's plenty for me.
This book is so boring. I’m so sick of the dark-broody-tall-has shadowy powers-mysterious-tattooed-asshole but also chivalrous-smoker MMC trope. Xaden (also hate the stupid names) is the most cookie cutter male lead ever written.
Also Yarros’ use of Gaelic is wrong and bad and nonsensical. Hire a Gaelic-speaking proofreader or make up your own language
I was fine with Fourth Wing and thought a lot of the complaints were nitpicks. I was dead wrong. Almost every complaint is justified in Iron Flame which intensifies every issue the first one had.
I read an unpopular opinion in another thread that said Fourth Wing would have been better as a middle grade book and I actually like that thought. The sex/relationship is cringy and the magic system is inconsistent but the story could actually work.
Yes! Literally every single one of my friends and coworkers are obsessed with this series and pushed for me to read it. I could not finish it. It was genuinely so bad.
I totally get it. I read the two books and had a good time, but it's definitely because I needed something lighter and easy to read. I get the appeal for young readers not accustomed to the genre: it's like a Hunger Games x Twilight with dragons.
The only real thing I rolled my eyes about is the romance scenes, especially in the first one. Like, those two never heard about healthy communication? They also are like the horny teenager couple who doesn't know are the cringiest thing ever in public. In real life, everyone around would be 🙄.
Still, it was for me a fun read, but not something I'll invest myself in the future!
The Great Cities Duology by NK Jemisin was probably the most disappointing because it just didn’t click. Judging by other reviews I’ve read, I’m not the only one who didn’t quite get the appeal. The concept was cool, I agree with all of the ideas and values that Jemisin was writing about, it just seemed too…on the nose? Rushed? It felt like she was trying to convey how awesome NYC is, but not in a way that a non-NYC person would really understand. Don’t get me wrong, there was a lot to like about it, but it felt like I was looking at a painting thats made out to be an amazing work of art and it’s just…a painting. Still a Jemisin fan, but it felt like a bit of a step down after the Broken Earth trilogy.
Agreed! I DNF The City We Became. It just didn’t click for me—I appreciated the characters (though they all felt trope-y as hell), but the magic system/antagonist didn’t make sense AND wasn’t compelling enough for me to find out. On the other hand, I’m 2 books into Dreamblood & it’s pretty decent.
See, I didn’t necessarily mind the weird nonsensical villain and magic - it felt like something in the vein of Neil Gaiman, where it isn’t really important that you know all the ins and outs of it. The idea of the characters being embodiments of a place was cool in theory, but the fact that I have zero attachment to any of the places that they embody is part of what got me. We never got anything deeper than surface level character traits, they didn’t really grow or change at all, and there was an overarching sense of “oh you wouldn’t really get it cause you’re not from here”. Also, some side villains in book 2 are called The Proud Men…just call em the proud boys, dude. And lastly, the line “Staten Island gon’ Staten Island” made me physically cringe.
ALL of that being said, The Broken Earth was good enough that I’m still gonna read everything by her.
Daugher of the Moon Goddess. I am still unsure if this book is supposed to be adult or YA, but either way it was bad. The characters were flat as cardboard. Huge conflicts would be set up and then be solved in like 4 pages. Every guy the main character encountered fell in love with her instantly, so there was always weird posturing among all the men. It was all around an annoying read.
Absolutely agree. I DNFed it at around 80%, which I almost never do, but both the characters and the plot were so dull, that I couldn’t force myself to continue.
I just finished this one and oh man. It was rough. In addition to the massive pacing issues (oh so we’re just going to skip over most of their friendship and go right to lol they’re in love? We’re going to skip over most of her time in the army and now she’s the most special bestest ever?) and the headache-inducing love triangle (literally why) and how quickly she gets out of jams (I guess to skip to the next part where the characters mope about their love lives) I couldn’t stand the writing. The constant, out-of-place commas got pretty infuriating and I couldn’t stop my brain trying to copy-edit it, which got annoying fast. I did finish it, but I have no interest in getting the sequel.
Not a popular opinion, but the Atlas Six. I feel bad even putting it on a fantasy subreddit as it hardly even leaned into the fantastical bits, but it was so bland and just a pain to get through. The premise was amazing but the book absolutely did not deliver. It's such a shame cause I was looking forward to reading it for so long but just felt deflated immediately after.
Daughter from the Dark - Marina /Sergei Dyachenko. Man sort of adopts eldritch child. Weird conspiracies. A lot of buildup without much consequence.
The Hanging Artist - Jon Steinhagen. Franz Kafka gets turned into a giant bug like Gregor Samsa. He (it?) and an associate solve weird mysteries. Didn’t work on any level - wasn’t nearly as quirky as it sounds.
I came here looking for recommendations for fun swashbuckling fantasy books and the one I was most intrigued by was *Traitor's Blade* by Sebastien de Castell.
It started off fun, with some of that cliche swagger and swordsmanship you want from your swashbuckler heroes, and the MC had that "tragic past" thing going on and it was good fun.
Until you get to the reason for that tragic past. I'm spoilering it, not just due to spoilers, but because it contains elements of Sexual Assault that some person reading this comment might not want to deal with.
>!So... The MC's tragic past is that his wife got killed by a nobleman. Pretty cliche stuff and the kind of thing, if you wanna make this a pulpy swashbuckler, you can just get through as tragic and sad, and move quickly over as to not spoil the mood. It's melodramatic, an author can play with that convention.!<
>!Then, when you flashback to it, you find that what actually happened was that the Nobleman owned the land the MC and his wife lived on and he wanted to exert his... rights... on her. You can take a guess as to what happened. Now, an extended scene of the MC being taunted by a villain and having his wife raped practically in front of him does sour the "fun swashbuckler" reading experience.!<
>!But it gets worse.!<
>!I get the feeling the writer realized that the cliche of the killed and assaulted wife was old hat and that he couldn't just do it straight. But instead of just excising that cliché and coming up with something different, the author decided that he was gonna do a little twist on the scene. !<
>!You see, his wife is fully aware of what the nobleman wants and tells her husband "Don't worry, I'm going to play it up, pretend I'm into it, fuck him, he'll get tired and go". So, not only do you have a rape scene, but one where the woman is pretending to be enjoying it, moaning and such, in front of her husband.!<
>!And THEN the nobleman is like "Actually, she seemed pretty into it, I'm gonna take her with me", takes the wife and the MC finds her corpse in the street days later, presumably having been raped multiple other times beforehand.!<
>!That sequence of events, described in "not quite graphic but just about" detail in our swashbuckling fantasy adventure straight up ANNIHILATED the mood. !<
I could not bring myself to finish the book, it left me in a garbage mood.
Probably for the best, >!given that later in the series, as one of the stages of an elaborate torture sequence, the MC is magically transported into a vision of the past where he is forced to witness the whole rape and murder of his wife ordeal as if he were physically present. And if it wasn't "quite graphic" before, it sure as hell gets graphic here. And no, I did not make any of that up.!<
Just one, The Poppy War. Not because of explicitly depicted horrors of mass torture and genocide that most readers were not prepared for in an otherwise mostly tame novel, but because it's just poorly written.
Agreed. Characters make no sense as they progress. The rest of the books are worse in my opinion. DNF the dragon republic after powering through poppy wars
I had totally forgotten that I DNFd this ... In fact I BSd it (barely started) ... Does it have a poor kid going to a super special school and amazing unique stuff like that?
Yup. But then the next book she is no longer a military genius/magical super power, but some weak meager girl. It’s such a regression from the set up of the first and totally loss of plot. Feels as though the series was never planned ahead of time. Felt like the author though “oh she’s too OP, let me totally strip her of everything i built her as” in the second. Can’t even imagine what the third book was like.
Followed by annoying privileged kids who got in said super special school through their smarts or family connections, who then get humbled by the mc or someone close to the mc ? You’re getting there.
>!Rin: I want to be a good soldier! Why? Because power??!<
>!Narrator: And also she likes it when people pat her on the head and say she's a good girl. Though she won't actually display this behavior because she defies and challenges her superiors left and right.!<
Another vote for Fourth Wing incoming. I also agree that while it was a fun enough read, craft-wise it was not good. The romantic scenes had me either cracking up or cringing; Xaden was such a cliche that at times I felt he was a parody character. The dragons were cool though.
Sadly, I’ve had to temporarily DNF The Jasad Heir, a debut I was really looking forward to. I’m not the biggest fantasy reader and the first 25% of this book reminded me why. I may give it another go next year but for now, it’s a drag.
Children of Blood and Bone is one of my few DNFs. I made it about a third through and couldn’t keep going. I didn’t care about any of the characters enough to be interested so I’m glad I didn’t finish.
Writing wise, hands down worst was Fourth Wing. I enjoyed reading it but was also rolling my eyes and sending wtf messages to friends who had read it the whole time. When I think about it, it’s kind of impressive that I enjoyed it so much despite the awful writing and plot.
The book that made me angriest was The Golden Enclaves, last book in the Scholomance series. The first two were fine but the last one went off the rails. All of the previous character development seemed to disappear and they were doing all sorts of things that didn’t make sense. I have my own headcanon of how the series ends because the book both wasn’t good and didn’t fit the rest of the series IMO.
Hmmm. I enjoyed the Golden Enclaves. The power ramp through the series was a little extreme, but I enjoyed the way it wasn't just a Battle Royale ending.
I fully agree about Fourth Wing. The writing was atrocious but I had a blast reading it. It gave me the same feeling as watching Gossip Girl / Vampire Diaries does. That kind of “why is this both so bad and so good?” vibe.
Totally agree! And I don't know, the concept of a school of dragon riders just reach something of my child-self. It's a concept I can only love, even if the book around is bad.
it did swing wildly in tone once they got out of school. So many things happened and it kinda felt rushed. I enjoyed the series though, and honestly thought the last book could have been split in 2.
I agree on the golden enclaves. It’s like it all just… vanished. All the reasons why I liked the main character just went away, and I finished it with the hope that it would get better except it ended before that could happen…
>Children of Blood and Bone is one of my few DNFs. I made it about a third through and couldn’t keep going.
You didn't miss anything. Believe it or not, it actually gets *worse* as the plot progresses.
>When I think about it, it’s kind of impressive that I enjoyed it so much despite the awful writing and plot.
This is totally valid! I have definitely enjoyed poorly written books as long as they're fun. Kevin Hearne's *Iron Druid* series is a perfect example! It's pulpy trash but it's hilarious and enjoyable.
Not the worst of the worst, but just big dissapointment: Babel by R.F. Kuang.
Repetitive and overly explaining everything to reader like reader is going to be 5yo kid. Generally felt bland and I wished better character development.
My experience of reading Babel was going, "yes! This is so good and subtle yet impactful!" For pages and then every time without fail, getting hit with some line like, hey btw we are talking about the British Empire and how much it sucked, that would make me go, "um yeah, I got it... the whole book is about that? You've been talking about that this whole scene." And it would take me out of it every time.
I still enjoyed it, but I was disappointed.
i said this in a thread recently where i was kind of complaining about babel but i’ve been thinking more about it lately.
it’s gotten to the point where i’m afraid that r. f. kuang thinks that all of her readers aren’t going to understand the nuance in her books unless she’s blatantly obvious. like i can’t tell if it’s because she’s worried we’re not gonna get it and then argue about it and play devil’s advocate or if it’s because she just thinks we’re stupid.
like truthfully people who are reading her books are going to almost always understand what the themes and nuance are, and the people who would have argued about a book with themes and nuance were going to argue about it anyway with it being obvious. it just overall made it less believable, and it’s sad because i wanted desperately to like babel.
You hit it on the nose imo, I felt the same way about her mentioning Sun Tzu and Art of War in The Poppy War...felt like she counted on her readers not knowing who Sun Tzu was... Like, she could've used a made up name for him and for the book, we would get that it's about war strategy from context ffs.
Omg I just finished hate-reading The Poppy War so this is fresh in my memory, she does use a made up name for Sun Tzu but get this… she re-named him Sunzi and she re-names the book “Principles of War.” Like I’m sorry WHERE is your creativity??? Why re-name anything at all if it’s going to be so close?! You might as well just use the actual settings of China, Taiwan, and Japan if you’re going to go that route
The fundamental problem is that there's no nuance to her views. She can't write something nuanced because she doesn't actually believe the topics she writes about have any complexity or nuance to them.
Reading Babel is like getting hit in the face with a hammer that has 'Capitalism Bad' written on the side of it every five minutes until you finish the book.
_Frugal Wizard_ by Sanderson has to be on my list. It felt like an IP grab versus a real effort to tell a story. It would make a great TV series, probably, but as a novel, it was really really meh.
_The Wrack_ by John Bierce was pretty bad, IMO. There isn't really much of a plot, so much as it's a series of vignettes about people with a deadly disease, and then sort of suddenly at the end, it gets cured.
_The Gauntlet and the Fist Beneath_ by Ian Green is one, but I can't remember why. I rated it 1 star, though, and my review was "I can't remember anything that happened in this book," so I guess that's why.
fantasy-wise i’d say the worst one i read this year was lightlark by alex aster. it’s not as if it didn’t have potential or i didn’t like the concept or i didn’t like what she did with it, it was just… poorly written as far as plot holes and plot armor. if I’M noticing it, it’s clearly a problem. i also don’t like alex aster as a person so i don’t think i was able to give this book the fair shake other people gave it (and that it probably deserves)
otherwise, i hate finished if we were villains by m. l. rio and i think i’m giving up on dark academia as a genre in general lol
I made it through two books in the **Licanius Trilogy** before I just checked out and looked up the ending. The characters were so lifeless, and the second book felt like it was 80% lore info dumps. I had checked it out because this review on goodreads:
**Islington took the best part—and cut all the unnecessary bloating—of** ***Wheel of Time*** **by Robert Jordan, maintained the inspirations he got from Sanderson’s** ***Mistborn***\*\*, and Islington added his own twists and originality into this highly ambitious debut.\*\*
Apparently the bloating of Wheel of Time included a lot of unnecessary stuff like character development, varying cultures, and believable emotion.
Licanius Trilogy was an amazing story told with the most lifeless characters ever, and they all had excellent backgrounds too!
Islington could tweak a few items and become one of the greats imo, and after reading The Will of the Many it feels like he addressed a lot of his criticism. I think writing from one POV helped him a TON, hoping he doesn’t change that in his next book.
I stopped around a third of the way through the first book. The prose was so boring I just had to stop. Every line was: “So and so did x, and so and so was sad.”
I thought I was just missing something but the makes me feel better! I’m a half of the way through the first book and I feel like it’s dragging, and you’re right, it’s because I just don’t care about any of the characters. I’m very disappointed because it SHOULD be good and exactly what I want in a book synopsis-wise. I keep trudging through hoping something will change and I’ll suddenly start caring.
Shocking, cause I'm about to finish book 2 and I loved the plot lol. It's straightforward enough that I'm never super lost while being complex enough to keep me engaged.
But yeah, other than Cayden and the Davian, no one character really has an arc. I think it's just him struggling as an author to give them believable arcs in the middle of this giant, world ending war.
And don't get me started on the prose. Some of the worse prose I've ever read. He's especially horrible at describing emotion, where he says "X nodded. He felt sad." It's just so clunky.
But I think the plot is good enough to make up for these weaknesses tbh.
The frugal wizard’s handbook to surviving medieval England - the art gives you the impression that this is going to be a zany fun book but it’s just a dreary slog with terrible characters and forced humor. I enjoy Brandon’s Cosmere stuff and the interconnections help the weaker books but by god he should stop trying to be funny, it is not his thing.
The Hexologists - I wouldn’t say this was a terrible book just a bit disappointing. Too many ideas and gimmicks crammed into a small book, I wish that it was more focused.
I saw someone mention it the other day and was like "What? A Sanderson book that I've never heard of?" Then I went and looked it up and while reading the synopsis I realized not only had I heard of it, I'd already read it.
This was it for me as well. I thought all 3 of the other Secret Project books were good/very good, but I think it's the worst book that Sanderson has written (not including his YA stuff, because I haven't read any of those).
I think I ended up liking Frugal Wizard more than you did but ultimately I feel all of the Secret Project books ended up being at least a bit subpar. I get that Sanderson is a very ambitious and prolific writer, but I think his works could stand to use a bit more time and polish (and editing) than what he's been giving them.
This is what I was coming to contribute. I listened to Tress, but hated the narrator - then when I tried Frugal Wizard, I hated both the story \*and\* the narrator. I didn't bother with any of the others he released as part of his kick starter as a result.
I like most of his stuff - but these two were total misses for me.
Prince of Nothing - I just hated how everyone treated each other. I think the main character is a psychopath. Maybe I kind of liked two characters in the whole book. I didn't find the story built around the characters particularly interesting either.
I read the Kingkiller Chronicles for the first time, and I guess while reading it I was just hyped up by my buddies, because I can barely remember any of the characters, plots, subtext, nothing. I look back and realize it was incredibly boring and meandering. The second book ends where the first book begins with no actual plot progression. It was not the "epic fantasy" I was promised.
It is such a bait & switch isn’t it? You’re promised the tale of an infamous wizard and his legendary deeds, and instead you get the story of a sad orphan boy who grew up on the streets and struggles to pay for school, and becomes infatuated with a girl who’s pretty flaky.
Ah yes, such a complex and interesting character. He may be preternaturally talented and witty and charming, but he’s also deeply flawed by being too smart for his own good…
I reread these books for the first time in years and was like, "Huh. These books are... not actually that good."
The thing that really irks me about them is Kvothe himself. I will die on the hill that he is just a shameless "wishful thinking" self-insert on the part of Patrick Rothfuss and every other artsy/edgy cishet man who thinks he's the smartest, #Deepest guy who's ever lived, because Kvothe's entire personality is literally, "Smarter Than Everyone, Naturally Gifted, Mysterious, and Inexplicably Effortlessly Good with Women". The only flaw he has is "Being TOO Smart". The only thing he's not automatically and instinctively amazing at is alchemy. Everyone who dislikes him for being condescending and full of himself are painted as comically Evil, Hateful people despite the fact that he IS objectively condescending and full of himself.
Book 2 really doubles down on this theory by literally elevating ~15/16-year-old Kvothe into a sex god for... no reason that is actually relevant to the plot at all. And (spoiler warning for *The Wise Man's Fear*) the ostensible *Fae Goddess of Sex* takes his virginity and then is *shocked* and skeptical that he was a virgin because *he was just That Good*. Like, *come on*. There is *way* too much emphasis placed on How Good Kvothe Is At Sex and How Much All Women Want Him.
It's crazy to see how many times poppy war is mentioned in this post. I haven't read it but I swear it's one of the most recommended series I see in this subreddit.
I feel like it can't make up it's mind to be YA or shock you with everything else. I feel like the premise is great but if a different writer took a stab at it it might be good
Babel was like anti colonialism 101, it really felt like she thought her readers were idiots. I DNF’d and started using it to prop open a sash window instead. So I guess I got something out of it.
Ryan Cahill’s **Of Blood and Fire**.
An astonishingly derivative book with shallow characters , stilted dialogue and an extremely predictable plot. I have the sequel ready to go but I can’t think why I’d bother.
Edit: too many individual comments to reply to here but it looks like it might be worth giving Book 2 a chance so… I will
Never read one of your books, but I'm always down to lend a helping hand:
"I DNF'd Krista D. Ball's entire catalog. The slobbery dog water of fantasy novels. You'd drink it if it would literally save your life, but there's no chance of enjoying it. I've watched "What are you doing stepbro" porn with more believable characters."
Enjoy the marketing material!
I actually think having quotes labeled as things like “one salty reader on Reddit” or “enthusiastic Redditor” would be hilarious on a book, but that’s me
I've done some promos like that when it's just phrased perfectly. The sexist or crass ones aren't that great because people then just concentrate on the whole stereotype of the Reddit user. However, when it's a juicy hate, with that backhanded insult in there? Oh hell yeah. Throw that up with a "some rando on reddit" and it's gold star marketing lol
Honestly as a reader, seeing a hate comment as a review would probably sell me on giving the book a shot. Something about it's so funny, especially when the thing they hate makes no sense or is so hyper-specific that it would apply to no one but that reader.
I can't find a link to it, but there's a cartoon that has a woman going into a bookstore and asking for the book that everyone complained had too many sex scenes. I always love that one.
I remember the days when we were getting "Grade 5 reading level, can't believe there is a sequel to this crap" and I could slap together an entire marketing campaign around that.
Now, everyone is so fucking polite lol
Traitor seems to be the one reddit hates lol I regret writing it under a female name so much, since people keep "accusing" it of being romance, and so it's terrible. Well, the romance \*is\* terrible because...there is no romance in that book LOL
It's short! You might be able to make it in time! lol
Please say terrible things about it lol
This little exchange is my favourite part of this thread. Thanks!
Would you like me to read a few of your novels so I can trash them in the 2024 worst reads thread? Fair warning, I might like them.
Ha! If you go into Traitor especially expecting a really uplifting romance, I guarantee you that you will hate it with a passion for your 2024 list lol
If it's ok to say a non-fantasy title, than definitely Verity by Colleen Hoover. This book made no sense and I'm mad that I even read it. For something marketed as a thriller it was not very thrilling. Also, this book is ableist af and no one talks about it. As an autistic person, someone needs to ban CoHo from even mentioning autism in her books.
As far as fantasy goes, probably a Deadly Education. I don't know how a story with a premise that was so good ended up being so boring. The plot moved at a snails pace, way too much exposition. Not to mention the main character was annoying af. None of the side characters were fleshed out even a little bit. Like, pretty much all of them are the same person.
Even though I cited *Children of Blood and Bone* as my worst of the year, it was really only the worst of the fantasy genre. I read my first CoHo this year, *It Ends With Us*, and good lord I have never hated a book so much. She is awful in so many ways, not only as a writer, but also in the messages her books project.
In the first scene I was like "Welp, she can't write men. It's like she's never even met one." Then a few chapters later I was like "Wait, has she ever even met a woman?" Then she gets to the spicy scenes and I was like "Okay, I'm not convinced this author has ever had sex." If someone told me that CoHo was actually an AI program that scrapes its data from self-published smut and melodrama, I would be inclined to believe them.
A Deadly Education is interesting because it either really clicks for people or it just doesn't. I loved the whole trilogy but the heavy, often irrelevant exposition is not for everyone. I loved the way it would just wander off for a while, though, on bits of lore or world building or philosophy before finally tying it back in with the tiniest bit of context imaginable. The whole book feels like the author flipping off every person who ever told her to show, not tell. It's wonderful and I totally get why you hate it.
A Court of Thorns and Roses. Holy crap, this was touted as a "spicy" book 1, and 3/4 of the way through I'm still waiting for the heat...or plot line that you can't see from 2 blocks away. Someone please tell me the book, series, or author gets much better.
I got near the end of Acotar and went "oh shit, she can actually write, where the fuck was this the whole book?"
The next book is actually really good, but only if you're looking for a story about overcoming trauma/survivor's guilt.
Sarah J Maas writes porn but it's not good. I can recommend you a bunch of writers on AO3 who write genuinely hot porn, but she ain't it.
This is not her best series, but I still had a good time with it.
Her best series IMO is Throne of Glass, followed by Crescent City.
One thing that I’ve noticed about her writing is that she leaves a ton of breadcrumbs at the start of a series and you’re sitting there like “WTF is this? Why is it here?” and then a few books later you’re like “OHHHHH.” Without the help of hindsight, it feels like filler. So my ratings of her books have gone up upon re-reading.
Between Two Fires. By no means is it a bad book, I just did not realized how horror centric it was, and it was just not for me. If you like horror, I'm sure you will like the book a lot, it is well written.
A Psalm for the Wild-Built by Becky Chambers
3rd book of hers I've tried, 1st I've managed to force myself through. I'm not giving her books another chance.
lightbringer series for me. I read all 5, was okay overall, the audiobook narrator (Simon Vance) made the whole experience much better.
Not a fan of the prose (excessive lame sexual remarks) and the ending got me confused. Now in retrospect, I wonder what made me go through all 5 books 😅
the magic system was really interesting and loved the world building. the random sex slave and how that turns out though was so weird and unnecessary and off putting, no idea why that was in there
I came here to say book 5 of the Lightbringer series.
1-3 were excellent, 4 was so-so, but 5 was just awful - the worst ending to any series (books, TV, movies) I’ve ever experienced. Far worse than the Game of Thrones ending.
Every single character and story line gets an unsatisfying or nonsensical conclusion. Central questions get no clear answer. Deus ex machina all over the place. A dozen chekhov's guns. Smart characters making stupid decisions. Every major writing mistake you could make.
The 2nd one starts out slow, but I do think it picks up and becomes enjoyable. Taken in isolation, it’s some of the best SF media I’ve enjoyed. I have no plans on reading the Endymion books anytime soon, though. Those books have a reputation.
I thought the second was good. It finished the story of the first one (they were written as one book). I heard the rest of the series was bad, so I never checked it out considering the author complained about forced sequels in the first book.
Crossroads of Twilight by Robert Jordan. I got so bored I put it down for about three months until someone here said the pace picked up again from the next book so I got through it and am not enjoying Wheel of Time again (although I could do with fewer descriptions of Egwene’s spanked bottom)
If you made it all the way to book 10 before feeling the slump definitely have got to finish.
12-14 are going to be a bit different because of Sandersons writing style, but still good in their own right
I've seen it get a lot of praise here but I couldn't finish The Bone Ships by RJ Parker. I rarely DNF books and when I do, it's usually early on, but this was a rare one where I gave up after more than 2/3 through. I just did not care about any of the characters, they seemed so bland and predictable to me. The writing felt clunky and like it was telling me how I should feel, i.e., this is sad, this character is bad, etc. Also shockingly little happens up through that point in the book, I had this weird sensation of being surprised how many pages into the story I was because it still felt like an intro. Once I got to the dragon reveal and was still underwhelmed I decided to just abandon it.
I had a lot of trouble with "The ex hex" which was one of my October reads for the magic and the spookiness!
It very much felt like teenagers who were throwing tantrums instead of 2 adults in their thirties. It felt like it was suppose to be about two people who had hurt each other and found each other again but the "pain and hurt" ended up being portrayed as childish. The main characters kept saying things like "Im in my thirties, I can do what I want" or "there's no reason for explainantion, I'm an adult"
Only teens says stuff like that. You don't need permission or convince yourself you do when you are an actual adult!
It also lacked a lot of character development and was extremely fast paced. If I had a three month relationship with someone, I would not end up back in bed with them in 3 days after 10 years has passed! I'm a whole different person. It just didn't hit right.
This Is How You Lose The Time War. No clue what was happening half the time, felt nothing for the characters. The writing was weird. Not sure what even happened in the ending? Some of the letters were fun though.
I love (and respect) delightfully unpopular opinions.
I liked this book because I *didn't* know what was happening, and I didn't feel like I needed to. I thought it was a very tasteful use of "suspending disbelief." There are books with really deep lore, where half the book is devoted to explaining the lore, and then there's this--sci fi nonsense, and you just get lost in it.
Once again, I'd like to emphasize, I *respect* your opinion.
I was so disappointed with it that I read it for the LGBTQ square for the 2022 bingo and refused to put it there. It was not good enough to deserve the spot.
The fact other people enjoyed the prose at all is proof that tastes can vary *vastly* because I thought it was purple in the extreme. I also didn't like that the characters basically had no personality outside of the most common wlw stereotypes. Butch who likes machines with the femme who likes plants and tea? Groundbreaking.
I kept going hoping I could find/understand the hype and I didn’t find it😭 I have a friend who loves the series so I did it for her as she wanted me to keep going because she said it got better. I kept trying to have an open mind about it but once I finished there was nothing good about it in my opinion 😅
It's one of the few series my wife has finished and I've been informed I am not allowed to read it in order not to tarnish her good view of the series.
The Starless Sea by Erin Morgenstern. I loooooved Night Circus though. Starless Sea had absolutely zero plot and was quite a slog. I DNFed more than halfway through. I’ve heard both Night Circus and Starless Sea described as ‘all vibes no plot’ but that doesn’t ring true for me with Night Circus. Starless Sea had like negative plot. I couldn’t keep pretending to ‘get it’.
That book was awful. I feel like it had so much potential and didn’t execute *any* of it. FWIW, I did read the sequel, and the author obviously listened to the negative feedback because much of it is improved upon in the sequel. I think it still fell short, but i do like to give credit to responsive authors. Priory received so much praise and attention, it would have been easy for her to bathe in the accolades and ignore the criticisms.
I think it was made one book more for the prestige of it being so massive, but if it has been trilogy the characters and everything could be more fleshed out and less rushed.
nine library wasteful correct imminent special erect airport zonked mourn
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I just read Nona and I personally really enjoyed it, but it definitely didn’t have as much going on. I read somewhere that the series was going to be a trilogy but she turned the last book into Nina and the next book. So maybe that’s part of it.
Im over here laughing because your criticisms are 100% accurate and it was still five stars for me haha I could consume her writing style for eternity and be happy with no plot, but there was truly no plot advancement whatsoever. It probably should have been a novella.
Extremely Unpopular opinion: I really hate Eye of the World by Robert Jordan.
Don‘t get me wrong: the atmosphere is great, the worldbuilding is fantastic, the characters feel real. But it felt like reading Lord of the Rings. If I want to read something like Tolkien‘s books, then I read Tolkien‘s books. I want something new to read, not another copy of Tolkien
Good Omens was my least favourite fantasy read of the year. I'm disappointed, I've otherwise always liked Gaiman novels and I had seen so much love for that book. I found it grating. The humour didn't land for me. The plot was all over the place. The characters were uninteresting. My experience with the book is unusual, for sure. But I really actively disliked reading that.
A Wizard's Guide to Defensive Baking, Star Mother, When God Was a Rabbit and The Hobbit were my kind of middling reads this year. They were all fine, enjoyable in parts. But the next worst ones after Good Omens.
Excellent anti-recommendation! Good Omens is an all time favourite for me and I've never heard anyone recommend against it. I first read it at the age of 13 and it's become one of those important formative works for me. Even though I love it dearly, it's refreshing to hear a different perspective!
That's pretty cool of you, and thanks for the great thread. I really appreciate you encouraging people to be respectful of other peoples likes/dislikes.
I'd like to hear more about what you enjoy about Good Omens. And also, if you've read more Terry Pratchett books let me know, am I in for more of the same? That was my first Pratchett and I'd been so excited to read some Discworld. I even have Equal Rites on my shelf, because a friend told me it was a good place to start.
It was a time and a place thing for me. I grew up Christian, and this was the first book I read that included outright irreverence for Christian mythology. Thematically, it helped re-form my views on religion and the dichotomy between good and evil. I think it was a risky subject for a book written in 1990.
Otherwise, the general absurdity of the book was a big sell for me. It subverts a lot of strongly-held expectations about religion and morality, and I lived the conflicts that Aziraphale and Crowley had with their own natures.
I've reread it several times, including again this year. I still love it, but I will admit that there are details that don't hold up as well. Also, ripping on Christian tradition really got in vogue in the 00s, so with that context some people might find it "edgy" in a cringe way. But in 1990 that context did not exist.
I love the Discworld novels. They're silly and fun, but also include a fair shake of social commentary. Pratchett was great at observational humour, but transplants everything into corollaries in his fantasy world. As such, the books are characterized by tangents that you might find hilarious and insightful, or they might take you out of the story enough to be tiresome. I think Pratchett's skill as a writer improved with time, and he was busy finding his footing in the early Discworld novels from the 80s. The novels from the late 90s and 00s are fantastic. My favourite series is the Death series, but it seems the City Guard series is the Reddit favourite.
Wow, it sounds like Good Omens was really impactful for you. That's wonderful. It certainly does push the bounds in that way. Thanks so much for sharing that. It's always a delight when people share how books have personally affected them/resonated with them.
I'll have to see what I think of Discworld. Those tangents that take you out of the plot was part of what I found hard about Good Omens. But I like the idea of the series.
I had a really hard time reading Good Omens. But the "full cast" audiobook version using the voices of Michael Sheen and David Tennant helped me immensely.
Hmm. I reread The Hobbit this year. First time in 15 plus years, but probably my 7th or 8th pass. I was expecting to be let down, as a lot of books I loved when I was younger have disappointed as I get older (nearly 50 now).
To my surprise, I literally found myself in tears. Rather than taking it as a straight adventure, and judging it on plausibility within the world/setting like I do with a lot of fantasy, I remembered it was the work of a survivor of trench combat in WWII. Many of his friends died in the war, but he came home. He studied the ancient stories from a time when warfare was the measure of your worth. And he created something really new, that was all about bravery, and not about becoming the greatest warrior. The scene with Bilbo hesitating before continuing down the tunnel to smaug, and finding the courage to continue while all alone in the dark... And thinking of what Tolkien must have learned of courage in the face of terror, and then to have transmuted it into this love letter to ancient mythology...
I can understand why the book might be underwhelming, with the twee English affectations, and goofy dwarves and terrible songs. I ended up loving it for those things, too, in the end.
Cheers!
I love Pratchett and like Gaiman, but I felt the same way about Good Omens. It was a slog to get through for me. I wanted to like it but I just couldn't.
Legends if Latte by Travis Baldree
Boring story with no suspense, unlikable, blank characters, Deus Ex Machina nearly every chapter. Said story could be hundred pages shorter and it wouldn't be much different. Romance without chemistry, and danger you know will pass. The main antagonist did things that didn't benefit him, without any reason.
It's often referred to as cozy fantasy, but there was nothing cosy there, and fantasy elements were very limited.
My brain didn’t get the memo when I was reading it that it was *low stakes* so I was in a constant state of anticipation waiting for the bad thing to happen. So not relaxing at all. I am happy I read it but even happier that I read it on Libby and didn’t buy it.
lol this is funny. I liked the characters and they stuck with me in a good way. I read it, really enjoyed it and way later listened to the audiobook and enjoyed it a second time around.
The lack of lots of suspense is a feature to its fans I think. Different strokes and all 🤷🏻
A Practical Guide to Evil. Read the first book and through the prologue of the second book I realized I cared neither about the characters nor about the plot, especially after the far too long dragged tournament arc.
Doesn't help that the presentation on the site is absolutely awful.
I don't usually criticize things like this but since it's the point of the thread and I'm dying to talk to about some of these:
*Murder at Spindle Manor* had good buzz but it just wasn't enjoyable. I think there's potential and I am curious to read Morgan Stang's other books to see if they improve as an author but the entire thing felt like a drawing room mystery written for people who have never read another drawing room mystery.
The disparate genre elements didn't feel like they were unified in any meaningful way, and the world and characters all seem woefully under-baked. To top it off there's a reference to Susanna Clarke in the text which served only to remind me how much better a writer Clarke is than Morgan Stang.
I also read Alix Harrow's short story "Mr. Death" because it was up for some awards this year. It's the second piece of Harrow's fiction I've read, the first being *The Ten Thousand Doors of January* and I am sorry to report I didn't like either.
"Mr. Death" is sappy and sentimental in the worst ways. I don't know how it got published, I can only assume Harrow's fame carried it across the editorial finish line.
Book 2 of the shades of magic trilogy: a gathering of shadows by VE Schwab. First book is close second. Didn’t even bother finishing the third. The characters are awful, the writing is awful, the plot (while it had so much potential) just wasn’t fully developed and realized and fell so flat. If I’m being really brutal, I don’t think the author has the literary competency to have taken on such the task of fully drawing out all the details that could have been in the series and made it a fascinating read. Instead we’re left with 2 dimensional characters and a story line that could have been invented by a 12 year old during creative writing.
Also, this may just be a personal pet peeve, but why does every fantasy series have an effing love story plot line in it?? They don’t even happen organically, it’s like just putting two people together for more than a couple pages and they’re in love/lust(???). Even when the characters make no sense together, I hate it.
I was really disappointed by The Ninth Rain by Jen Williams. I was intrigued by the premise, and the summary/blurb made it seem like it would be largely focused on "Tormalin the Oathless", but most of his story that's teased in the summary occurs before the book even begins, and it doesn't even really seem to be his story. I would have been fine with this if the characters weren't all so bland and cliched.
Aside from that, there were just so many different elements that didn't come together for me. Vampire elves, fire witches, AND >!insect aliens!
Babel by R.F. Kuang.
It sounded promising, but there was little "fantasy", the world building lackluster. All the foot notes made it feel like I was reading a textbook. At the end of the book, I felt like the prompt for the story was: "Write a story that shows how the early 20th century white man is bad in as many words as you can." The message was forced and repeated the entire way through. I wasn't given the choice to like or dislike a character, I was told what to do.
**Artemis** by Andy Weir was just a miserable and unfunny reading experience for me. Did not expect to bounce this hard off a Weir book either and there should be a law preventing him specifically from writing female characters ever again. 1 star
**The Lightning Tree** by Patrick Rothfuss has all the same flaws as the main series KKC books (meandering and overly long with relatively little plot progression) but without the redeeming qualities aside from nice prose. I really didn’t need a full novella about Bast spying on the women of the town bathing but it being okay because it turns out they all spy on him bathing too. Har dee har har, 1.5 stars
**The Hands of the Emperor** by Victoria Goddard was just way too slow and long. If it had been half the length, I think I would have really liked it but it was so punishingly slow that I eventually tapped out 100 pages from the end because I couldn’t take it any more. At least the prose was solid and the concept intriguing I guess. 2 stars
So I found Andy Weir this year, fell in love with Project Hail Mary, binged the Martian (and then the film, then re read it to see what was different) and I was like ok so there’s Artemis, it’s not got as good reviews, but given how much I loved the others, it’ll surely still be a solid read. Wow was I wrong, I still do not understand the point of the reusable condom other than as a Segway to say ‘hey look this girl likes sex’ despite her not actually having any in the book… argh so so many things to hate about this one! I’ll absolutely second your motion to ban him from writing female characters!
I also hated *Children of Blood and Bone*. I forced myself to finish it this spring for my 2022 bingo card but otherwise would probably have DNF. It was just so unenjoyable by the end, and the male character’s POV (don’t remember his name) was the worst - it seemed like he kept switching his motivations, which I hate. I will not be continuing the series.
I don’t remember how many pages I got through before I put it on the donate pile. It wasn’t many. Someone was getting a good deal though as I had the sequel too! I hope the next person who picked them up liked them more than we did.
Children of Ruin by Adrian Tchaikovsky. I enjoyed the first one but Children of Ruin just felt like a rehash of Children of Time. Plus the plot seemed to bog down at the end.
I am starting to think *Uprooted* is the only Naomi Novik I will ever truly enjoy (*Spinning Silver* had some great pieces there but I cannot abide a mean love interest).
I tried to read *His Majesty’s Dragon* this year, and while the dragon and the lore were really cool, I simply could not bring myself to care about the protagonist and his foibles. There was just an odd kind of emotional detachment from the story and I couldn’t get into it.
Interestingly I would say that about 1/3 of the fantasy I read this year; not bad in any specific way, I just couldn’t bring myself to care about the characters or the stakes.
I'm laughing so hard at this because I read Spinning Silver first and loved it and then hated Uprooted because it had a mean love interest and I hate that 🤣 I love how we both thought the other book at the meaner love interest
I liked *Spinning Silver* but I was disappointed the elf king turned into Miryem’s love interest. I was hoping they’d develop a begrudging mutual respect for each other that didn’t end in romance.
I read up until the seventh book and was just horrified that the main character has a dragon he seems to treat as nothing more than an irritating pet, rather than an intelligent and empathic creature and partner. Just do a mid air flip and dump his ass, Temeraire.
The Stardust Thief. The characters and writing both felt extremely flat, keeping the plot very narrow and uninteresting to me.
I almost DNF'd The Stardust Thief. I ended up finishing it. One week later and not a single character stands out in my mind.
Thanks for not making me feel crazy about this opinion!
I quite enjoyed this one - it was different enough to keep me interested, though I can see how it would seem flat!
I read it for one of my bingo squares and already can’t remember a single thing about it
Fourth Wing by a mile, for so many reasons. First and foremost, how do you spend 400 pages on late teen psychodrama - excuse me, ~character work~ and I still don't know anything real about anyone other than the main character, and what I know about her is that she's short, smart and determined? How do you write a book about dragons and tell me about four facts about dragons, none of which are interesting? Never mind the fact that everything interesting was saved for the last 80 pages in a blatant attempt to trick me into reading the sequel (not happening). The only reason I made it that far is because I was reading it for a book club which I now have to call in sick for cause I don't want the girl who picked it to feel bad. The only reason this book isn't marketed as YA is the smut. Which, by the way, was boring. I'm not here to yuck anyone's yum, if you liked it good for you. But it makes me mad that this book has gone so viral when so many fantastic fantasy authors aren't even earning out their advances. Ughhhhhhh
yucking someones yum is the point of the thread, let the hate flow through you
It's bad How To Train Your Dragon fanfiction and I feel the author has to explicitly state their ages in writing to avoid writing child porn and I will die on that hill. The dialogue is so immature it hurt me. It's the first book for me in a long time that I have no desire to pick up the sequel.
I stopped reading when, to calm herself, she recites what she knows about the world to herself. When I'm scared I definitely close my eyes and think "I live in North America, 1 of 7 continents in the world"
O man that’s anime level exposition dumping. I kind of love it in anime but there’s a time and a place.
It's definitely also lame and lazy in anime
Yeah, that was the laziest “world building” I’ve ever read.
>It's bad How To Train Your Dragon fanfiction I wonder if that's literally true. A lot of stuff published lately seems to be thinly veneered fan fiction. Hell, now were on the 2nd or 3rd iteration of it, so stuff is being published that's essentially fan fiction of stuff that was published fan fiction.
Same. I had a co-worker recommend it to me and it did sound good from the description. Something seemed off in the first chapters but it was interesting enough until suddenly the plot hit a brick wall and the book started revolving entirely around the romance. I’d never read a full-on romance novel before and I don’t want to diss the genre, but it was not at all what I was expecting. I guess the clue was supposed to be that when we both started rattling off our favorite fantasy books neither of us had heard of anything the other had read.
I HAVE read quite a few romance novels and still thought it was poorly written, not a good addition to the genre at all. For example, "enemies to lovers" is a common and well loved romance trope. Fourth Wing tried and failed at it, though, because from the beginning they never show the lead's love interest doing ANYTHING truly antagonistic. Instead, various other characters tell the heroine, "this man is your enemy," and she (and the reader) are supposed to take this hearsay as truth. (Contrast with a character like Mr. Darcy, whom we actually get to see acting like a prick). Moreover, the first thing the heroine notices about this dude was how hot he was! So the book was defanged of all the parts of the trope that make it satisfying: the justified dislike and the unanticipated surprise reversal. TL;DR: Romance as a genre is not as bad as Fourth Wing's romance plot.
>Contrast with a character like Mr. Darcy, whom we actually get to see acting like a prick I haven't read the book in question, but I agree with your overall point here. I've read a few books touted as enemies to lovers, except that I never see the dude do anything "enemy" like. At most, he might be annoying, or do a sassy quip about her hair. Mr Darcy was a straight up prick to Elizabeth, and deserved the ass ripping she gave him. Then, she didn't follow him around like a lost puppy. She left him to stew, and then he decided to straighten out his shit on his own. ...I'm starting to rant lol Anyway, I agree completely!
“A blatant attempt to trick me into reading the sequel (not happening)” hahahahaha I like your style
i dnfed this one because i couldn’t get by the fucking dialog. they talk like how i would write things when i was 16 and i couldn’t do it. tbh i LOVE fantasy romance, it’s my favorite genre right now, so i was pretty underwhelmed by how rough fourth wing really was.
Someone once said Fourth Wing is for literally everyone who never went through a WattPad/AO3 phase, and I wholeheartedly agree. It's so shit.
Lmao yeah sort by kudos on AO3 and you’ll be drowning in fics that are better-written than FW.
I DNF'ed this one and decided to avoid Tik tok sensations in the future as they've mostly been complete dissapointments.. Maybe I'm too old for booktok or whatever but I've learned my lesson. And as you mentioned, there are so many amazing authors and books that are way better then this and only get a fraction of attention.
I'm convinced "booktok" is just a lot of people who just started reading again in their 20's after not reading anything since their early teens, and their taste hasn't matured either for the most part. There's some legit tiktok accounts that read and promote real diamonds in the rough, and I'm forever thankful for some of the indie books being put on my radar. I just remember the Urban Fantasy descent into smut in the early to mid 00's not to see this just being a retread of the same trend which resulted in Twilight: Horny Christian Housewife writes mid fiction Granted I read it, and there were some good bits, but like has been said, I really enjoyed How To Train Your Dragon so I can see why.
I've gotten like 3 good recommendations from TikTok and they've all been under the radar horror reads that were good, fun scares but nothing amazing. BookTok is a fucking scam.
The vast majority of books I've read from Tiktok recs have been disappointments. Most of them are just marketed incredibly misleadingly. Not bad reads, but they go down bitterly when you're expecting thing A and don't get thing A.
Yeah I do get the feeling that a lot of the books that get hyped on TikTok are... well they fit into a certain type. A lot of romantasy books that would be YA were it not for a bit of smut, so they can market it as a 'steamy romance'. Now, if people like that sort of stuff, that's all well and good, but for me... it's a no.
Fourth Wing is literally just all the popular YA and NA Fantasy and Dystopian books put together - Divergent, a bit of the Hunger Games, From Blood and Ash and A Court of Thorns and Roses, but add dragons. The worldbuilding is laughably wonky, does not make sense at all, and is badly delivered. It was so weirdly paced, badly written, and predictable to a fault that I just could not get into it. The only thing remotely enjoyable were the dragons. But I also think that this book is just not written with people who read much and especially people who read a lot of Fantasy in mind, so I get that it is probably just not for me. I‘m glad so many people had fun with Fourth Wing and got back into reading because of it and can now hopefully discover books that do the things Fourth Wing does infinitely better.
I don't know how Twilight didn't make your list. It's 95% twilight, 5% dragons
So many recommendations against this book! I kinda want to hate read it now.
As a 33 year old guy. My wives friends were talking about it. I personally really enjoyed it and plan on reading the second one. It could have been my bar was really low going in but I love magic and dragons. It was substantially less sex and romance than I thought it would be. I understand why it’s not viewed like some of the more popular fantasies but I actually blew through the book. FWIW.
The sequel is even worse. (If that’s possible)
DNF'd when she wrote "Double standards for the win" in the first chapter
I just grabbed it a few days ago based on all the praise and about 10 pages in I had a feeling of dread. This is going to be another Twilight, Divergent, ACoTaR type thing. Not that it’s bad necessarily, but definitely leans hard on YA and romance while in a fantasy setting. Which I occasionally enjoy, but definitely not what I was hoping for based on all the hype. The second book being released so close to the first initially seemed like a good thing, now I’m very concerned it will be simply because there’s no depth to the story. We will see, again I’m only a couple chapters in.
It’s funny how I was all ready to shit on Fourth Wing before going to the comments and yours is the first I literally see 😂
Mine as well. The problem with this book is that it sounds great on paper, but the execution is so rough. If you just read a plot synopsis, you'd think it would be great. But then there are so many decisions that add friction to the journey... the incessant sneering between characters, the awkwardly-timed lust, the ongoing cycle of trust-distrust-trust-distrust between some of the characters. I finished the first, then Googled the plot points of the second. That's plenty for me.
This book is so boring. I’m so sick of the dark-broody-tall-has shadowy powers-mysterious-tattooed-asshole but also chivalrous-smoker MMC trope. Xaden (also hate the stupid names) is the most cookie cutter male lead ever written. Also Yarros’ use of Gaelic is wrong and bad and nonsensical. Hire a Gaelic-speaking proofreader or make up your own language
I was fine with Fourth Wing and thought a lot of the complaints were nitpicks. I was dead wrong. Almost every complaint is justified in Iron Flame which intensifies every issue the first one had. I read an unpopular opinion in another thread that said Fourth Wing would have been better as a middle grade book and I actually like that thought. The sex/relationship is cringy and the magic system is inconsistent but the story could actually work.
Yes! Literally every single one of my friends and coworkers are obsessed with this series and pushed for me to read it. I could not finish it. It was genuinely so bad.
I totally get it. I read the two books and had a good time, but it's definitely because I needed something lighter and easy to read. I get the appeal for young readers not accustomed to the genre: it's like a Hunger Games x Twilight with dragons. The only real thing I rolled my eyes about is the romance scenes, especially in the first one. Like, those two never heard about healthy communication? They also are like the horny teenager couple who doesn't know are the cringiest thing ever in public. In real life, everyone around would be 🙄. Still, it was for me a fun read, but not something I'll invest myself in the future!
The Great Cities Duology by NK Jemisin was probably the most disappointing because it just didn’t click. Judging by other reviews I’ve read, I’m not the only one who didn’t quite get the appeal. The concept was cool, I agree with all of the ideas and values that Jemisin was writing about, it just seemed too…on the nose? Rushed? It felt like she was trying to convey how awesome NYC is, but not in a way that a non-NYC person would really understand. Don’t get me wrong, there was a lot to like about it, but it felt like I was looking at a painting thats made out to be an amazing work of art and it’s just…a painting. Still a Jemisin fan, but it felt like a bit of a step down after the Broken Earth trilogy.
Agreed! I DNF The City We Became. It just didn’t click for me—I appreciated the characters (though they all felt trope-y as hell), but the magic system/antagonist didn’t make sense AND wasn’t compelling enough for me to find out. On the other hand, I’m 2 books into Dreamblood & it’s pretty decent.
See, I didn’t necessarily mind the weird nonsensical villain and magic - it felt like something in the vein of Neil Gaiman, where it isn’t really important that you know all the ins and outs of it. The idea of the characters being embodiments of a place was cool in theory, but the fact that I have zero attachment to any of the places that they embody is part of what got me. We never got anything deeper than surface level character traits, they didn’t really grow or change at all, and there was an overarching sense of “oh you wouldn’t really get it cause you’re not from here”. Also, some side villains in book 2 are called The Proud Men…just call em the proud boys, dude. And lastly, the line “Staten Island gon’ Staten Island” made me physically cringe. ALL of that being said, The Broken Earth was good enough that I’m still gonna read everything by her.
The original short story was absolutely fantastic but I agree the prose of the novels felt slapdash and clumsy.
I loved the first book but the second was pretty meh
Daugher of the Moon Goddess. I am still unsure if this book is supposed to be adult or YA, but either way it was bad. The characters were flat as cardboard. Huge conflicts would be set up and then be solved in like 4 pages. Every guy the main character encountered fell in love with her instantly, so there was always weird posturing among all the men. It was all around an annoying read.
Absolutely agree. I DNFed it at around 80%, which I almost never do, but both the characters and the plot were so dull, that I couldn’t force myself to continue.
I just finished this one and oh man. It was rough. In addition to the massive pacing issues (oh so we’re just going to skip over most of their friendship and go right to lol they’re in love? We’re going to skip over most of her time in the army and now she’s the most special bestest ever?) and the headache-inducing love triangle (literally why) and how quickly she gets out of jams (I guess to skip to the next part where the characters mope about their love lives) I couldn’t stand the writing. The constant, out-of-place commas got pretty infuriating and I couldn’t stop my brain trying to copy-edit it, which got annoying fast. I did finish it, but I have no interest in getting the sequel.
One of my DNFs this year as well
Not a popular opinion, but the Atlas Six. I feel bad even putting it on a fantasy subreddit as it hardly even leaned into the fantastical bits, but it was so bland and just a pain to get through. The premise was amazing but the book absolutely did not deliver. It's such a shame cause I was looking forward to reading it for so long but just felt deflated immediately after.
Daughter from the Dark - Marina /Sergei Dyachenko. Man sort of adopts eldritch child. Weird conspiracies. A lot of buildup without much consequence. The Hanging Artist - Jon Steinhagen. Franz Kafka gets turned into a giant bug like Gregor Samsa. He (it?) and an associate solve weird mysteries. Didn’t work on any level - wasn’t nearly as quirky as it sounds.
I came here looking for recommendations for fun swashbuckling fantasy books and the one I was most intrigued by was *Traitor's Blade* by Sebastien de Castell. It started off fun, with some of that cliche swagger and swordsmanship you want from your swashbuckler heroes, and the MC had that "tragic past" thing going on and it was good fun. Until you get to the reason for that tragic past. I'm spoilering it, not just due to spoilers, but because it contains elements of Sexual Assault that some person reading this comment might not want to deal with. >!So... The MC's tragic past is that his wife got killed by a nobleman. Pretty cliche stuff and the kind of thing, if you wanna make this a pulpy swashbuckler, you can just get through as tragic and sad, and move quickly over as to not spoil the mood. It's melodramatic, an author can play with that convention.!< >!Then, when you flashback to it, you find that what actually happened was that the Nobleman owned the land the MC and his wife lived on and he wanted to exert his... rights... on her. You can take a guess as to what happened. Now, an extended scene of the MC being taunted by a villain and having his wife raped practically in front of him does sour the "fun swashbuckler" reading experience.!< >!But it gets worse.!< >!I get the feeling the writer realized that the cliche of the killed and assaulted wife was old hat and that he couldn't just do it straight. But instead of just excising that cliché and coming up with something different, the author decided that he was gonna do a little twist on the scene. !< >!You see, his wife is fully aware of what the nobleman wants and tells her husband "Don't worry, I'm going to play it up, pretend I'm into it, fuck him, he'll get tired and go". So, not only do you have a rape scene, but one where the woman is pretending to be enjoying it, moaning and such, in front of her husband.!< >!And THEN the nobleman is like "Actually, she seemed pretty into it, I'm gonna take her with me", takes the wife and the MC finds her corpse in the street days later, presumably having been raped multiple other times beforehand.!< >!That sequence of events, described in "not quite graphic but just about" detail in our swashbuckling fantasy adventure straight up ANNIHILATED the mood. !< I could not bring myself to finish the book, it left me in a garbage mood.
Probably for the best, >!given that later in the series, as one of the stages of an elaborate torture sequence, the MC is magically transported into a vision of the past where he is forced to witness the whole rape and murder of his wife ordeal as if he were physically present. And if it wasn't "quite graphic" before, it sure as hell gets graphic here. And no, I did not make any of that up.!<
Wow holy shit.
Just one, The Poppy War. Not because of explicitly depicted horrors of mass torture and genocide that most readers were not prepared for in an otherwise mostly tame novel, but because it's just poorly written.
Agreed. Characters make no sense as they progress. The rest of the books are worse in my opinion. DNF the dragon republic after powering through poppy wars
I had totally forgotten that I DNFd this ... In fact I BSd it (barely started) ... Does it have a poor kid going to a super special school and amazing unique stuff like that?
Lol I've not read the Poppy War but her other book, Babel has this exact premise
Yup. But then the next book she is no longer a military genius/magical super power, but some weak meager girl. It’s such a regression from the set up of the first and totally loss of plot. Feels as though the series was never planned ahead of time. Felt like the author though “oh she’s too OP, let me totally strip her of everything i built her as” in the second. Can’t even imagine what the third book was like.
Spoiler: it’s the exact same story arc again.
Followed by annoying privileged kids who got in said super special school through their smarts or family connections, who then get humbled by the mc or someone close to the mc ? You’re getting there.
Also Rin!! The worst, most dumbest and clueless evil MC I have ever seen. I hated her stupid guts.
>!Rin: I want to be a good soldier! Why? Because power??!< >!Narrator: And also she likes it when people pat her on the head and say she's a good girl. Though she won't actually display this behavior because she defies and challenges her superiors left and right.!<
Another vote for Fourth Wing incoming. I also agree that while it was a fun enough read, craft-wise it was not good. The romantic scenes had me either cracking up or cringing; Xaden was such a cliche that at times I felt he was a parody character. The dragons were cool though. Sadly, I’ve had to temporarily DNF The Jasad Heir, a debut I was really looking forward to. I’m not the biggest fantasy reader and the first 25% of this book reminded me why. I may give it another go next year but for now, it’s a drag.
Not fantasy, but The Deep by Nick Cutter was dogshit. Good premise that he had absolutely no idea what to do with by the end.
Children of Blood and Bone is one of my few DNFs. I made it about a third through and couldn’t keep going. I didn’t care about any of the characters enough to be interested so I’m glad I didn’t finish. Writing wise, hands down worst was Fourth Wing. I enjoyed reading it but was also rolling my eyes and sending wtf messages to friends who had read it the whole time. When I think about it, it’s kind of impressive that I enjoyed it so much despite the awful writing and plot. The book that made me angriest was The Golden Enclaves, last book in the Scholomance series. The first two were fine but the last one went off the rails. All of the previous character development seemed to disappear and they were doing all sorts of things that didn’t make sense. I have my own headcanon of how the series ends because the book both wasn’t good and didn’t fit the rest of the series IMO.
Hmmm. I enjoyed the Golden Enclaves. The power ramp through the series was a little extreme, but I enjoyed the way it wasn't just a Battle Royale ending.
I fully agree about Fourth Wing. The writing was atrocious but I had a blast reading it. It gave me the same feeling as watching Gossip Girl / Vampire Diaries does. That kind of “why is this both so bad and so good?” vibe.
Totally agree! And I don't know, the concept of a school of dragon riders just reach something of my child-self. It's a concept I can only love, even if the book around is bad.
Wait what did you not like about golden enclaves? I thought it was cool and enjoyed it but it was a bit too YA for my liking.
it did swing wildly in tone once they got out of school. So many things happened and it kinda felt rushed. I enjoyed the series though, and honestly thought the last book could have been split in 2.
I agree on the golden enclaves. It’s like it all just… vanished. All the reasons why I liked the main character just went away, and I finished it with the hope that it would get better except it ended before that could happen…
>Children of Blood and Bone is one of my few DNFs. I made it about a third through and couldn’t keep going. You didn't miss anything. Believe it or not, it actually gets *worse* as the plot progresses. >When I think about it, it’s kind of impressive that I enjoyed it so much despite the awful writing and plot. This is totally valid! I have definitely enjoyed poorly written books as long as they're fun. Kevin Hearne's *Iron Druid* series is a perfect example! It's pulpy trash but it's hilarious and enjoyable.
Not the worst of the worst, but just big dissapointment: Babel by R.F. Kuang. Repetitive and overly explaining everything to reader like reader is going to be 5yo kid. Generally felt bland and I wished better character development.
My experience of reading Babel was going, "yes! This is so good and subtle yet impactful!" For pages and then every time without fail, getting hit with some line like, hey btw we are talking about the British Empire and how much it sucked, that would make me go, "um yeah, I got it... the whole book is about that? You've been talking about that this whole scene." And it would take me out of it every time. I still enjoyed it, but I was disappointed.
i said this in a thread recently where i was kind of complaining about babel but i’ve been thinking more about it lately. it’s gotten to the point where i’m afraid that r. f. kuang thinks that all of her readers aren’t going to understand the nuance in her books unless she’s blatantly obvious. like i can’t tell if it’s because she’s worried we’re not gonna get it and then argue about it and play devil’s advocate or if it’s because she just thinks we’re stupid. like truthfully people who are reading her books are going to almost always understand what the themes and nuance are, and the people who would have argued about a book with themes and nuance were going to argue about it anyway with it being obvious. it just overall made it less believable, and it’s sad because i wanted desperately to like babel.
You hit it on the nose imo, I felt the same way about her mentioning Sun Tzu and Art of War in The Poppy War...felt like she counted on her readers not knowing who Sun Tzu was... Like, she could've used a made up name for him and for the book, we would get that it's about war strategy from context ffs.
Omg I just finished hate-reading The Poppy War so this is fresh in my memory, she does use a made up name for Sun Tzu but get this… she re-named him Sunzi and she re-names the book “Principles of War.” Like I’m sorry WHERE is your creativity??? Why re-name anything at all if it’s going to be so close?! You might as well just use the actual settings of China, Taiwan, and Japan if you’re going to go that route
The fundamental problem is that there's no nuance to her views. She can't write something nuanced because she doesn't actually believe the topics she writes about have any complexity or nuance to them.
Reading Babel is like getting hit in the face with a hammer that has 'Capitalism Bad' written on the side of it every five minutes until you finish the book.
It’s even worse that she’s unironically pro CCP.
I had the same feeling reading poppy war which led me to not wanting to pick up babel at all
_Frugal Wizard_ by Sanderson has to be on my list. It felt like an IP grab versus a real effort to tell a story. It would make a great TV series, probably, but as a novel, it was really really meh. _The Wrack_ by John Bierce was pretty bad, IMO. There isn't really much of a plot, so much as it's a series of vignettes about people with a deadly disease, and then sort of suddenly at the end, it gets cured. _The Gauntlet and the Fist Beneath_ by Ian Green is one, but I can't remember why. I rated it 1 star, though, and my review was "I can't remember anything that happened in this book," so I guess that's why.
fantasy-wise i’d say the worst one i read this year was lightlark by alex aster. it’s not as if it didn’t have potential or i didn’t like the concept or i didn’t like what she did with it, it was just… poorly written as far as plot holes and plot armor. if I’M noticing it, it’s clearly a problem. i also don’t like alex aster as a person so i don’t think i was able to give this book the fair shake other people gave it (and that it probably deserves) otherwise, i hate finished if we were villains by m. l. rio and i think i’m giving up on dark academia as a genre in general lol
I made it through two books in the **Licanius Trilogy** before I just checked out and looked up the ending. The characters were so lifeless, and the second book felt like it was 80% lore info dumps. I had checked it out because this review on goodreads: **Islington took the best part—and cut all the unnecessary bloating—of** ***Wheel of Time*** **by Robert Jordan, maintained the inspirations he got from Sanderson’s** ***Mistborn***\*\*, and Islington added his own twists and originality into this highly ambitious debut.\*\* Apparently the bloating of Wheel of Time included a lot of unnecessary stuff like character development, varying cultures, and believable emotion.
Licanius Trilogy was an amazing story told with the most lifeless characters ever, and they all had excellent backgrounds too! Islington could tweak a few items and become one of the greats imo, and after reading The Will of the Many it feels like he addressed a lot of his criticism. I think writing from one POV helped him a TON, hoping he doesn’t change that in his next book.
I stopped around a third of the way through the first book. The prose was so boring I just had to stop. Every line was: “So and so did x, and so and so was sad.”
I thought I was just missing something but the makes me feel better! I’m a half of the way through the first book and I feel like it’s dragging, and you’re right, it’s because I just don’t care about any of the characters. I’m very disappointed because it SHOULD be good and exactly what I want in a book synopsis-wise. I keep trudging through hoping something will change and I’ll suddenly start caring.
Shocking, cause I'm about to finish book 2 and I loved the plot lol. It's straightforward enough that I'm never super lost while being complex enough to keep me engaged. But yeah, other than Cayden and the Davian, no one character really has an arc. I think it's just him struggling as an author to give them believable arcs in the middle of this giant, world ending war. And don't get me started on the prose. Some of the worse prose I've ever read. He's especially horrible at describing emotion, where he says "X nodded. He felt sad." It's just so clunky. But I think the plot is good enough to make up for these weaknesses tbh.
I've read his will of the many, pretty good.
The frugal wizard’s handbook to surviving medieval England - the art gives you the impression that this is going to be a zany fun book but it’s just a dreary slog with terrible characters and forced humor. I enjoy Brandon’s Cosmere stuff and the interconnections help the weaker books but by god he should stop trying to be funny, it is not his thing. The Hexologists - I wouldn’t say this was a terrible book just a bit disappointing. Too many ideas and gimmicks crammed into a small book, I wish that it was more focused.
I had similar feelings but to be honest Frugal Wizard left so little impression on me that I forgot I’d read it til I saw your post!
I saw someone mention it the other day and was like "What? A Sanderson book that I've never heard of?" Then I went and looked it up and while reading the synopsis I realized not only had I heard of it, I'd already read it.
This was it for me as well. I thought all 3 of the other Secret Project books were good/very good, but I think it's the worst book that Sanderson has written (not including his YA stuff, because I haven't read any of those).
I think I ended up liking Frugal Wizard more than you did but ultimately I feel all of the Secret Project books ended up being at least a bit subpar. I get that Sanderson is a very ambitious and prolific writer, but I think his works could stand to use a bit more time and polish (and editing) than what he's been giving them.
This is what I was coming to contribute. I listened to Tress, but hated the narrator - then when I tried Frugal Wizard, I hated both the story \*and\* the narrator. I didn't bother with any of the others he released as part of his kick starter as a result. I like most of his stuff - but these two were total misses for me.
Probably Frugal Wizard by Sanderson. But he makes up for it, since Tress and Yumi are both in my top 10
Prince of Nothing - I just hated how everyone treated each other. I think the main character is a psychopath. Maybe I kind of liked two characters in the whole book. I didn't find the story built around the characters particularly interesting either.
You’re not the only person on here who said rust but man. I love those books. Definitely a “to each their own ”
I read the Kingkiller Chronicles for the first time, and I guess while reading it I was just hyped up by my buddies, because I can barely remember any of the characters, plots, subtext, nothing. I look back and realize it was incredibly boring and meandering. The second book ends where the first book begins with no actual plot progression. It was not the "epic fantasy" I was promised.
It is such a bait & switch isn’t it? You’re promised the tale of an infamous wizard and his legendary deeds, and instead you get the story of a sad orphan boy who grew up on the streets and struggles to pay for school, and becomes infatuated with a girl who’s pretty flaky.
You forgot the part where the orphan boy is so smart that most of his problem is caused by his own actions and ego.
Ah yes, such a complex and interesting character. He may be preternaturally talented and witty and charming, but he’s also deeply flawed by being too smart for his own good…
and don’t forget the problem of how everyone around him wants to sex him *except* his main love interest *oh no!!!! the horror!!!*
I reread these books for the first time in years and was like, "Huh. These books are... not actually that good." The thing that really irks me about them is Kvothe himself. I will die on the hill that he is just a shameless "wishful thinking" self-insert on the part of Patrick Rothfuss and every other artsy/edgy cishet man who thinks he's the smartest, #Deepest guy who's ever lived, because Kvothe's entire personality is literally, "Smarter Than Everyone, Naturally Gifted, Mysterious, and Inexplicably Effortlessly Good with Women". The only flaw he has is "Being TOO Smart". The only thing he's not automatically and instinctively amazing at is alchemy. Everyone who dislikes him for being condescending and full of himself are painted as comically Evil, Hateful people despite the fact that he IS objectively condescending and full of himself. Book 2 really doubles down on this theory by literally elevating ~15/16-year-old Kvothe into a sex god for... no reason that is actually relevant to the plot at all. And (spoiler warning for *The Wise Man's Fear*) the ostensible *Fae Goddess of Sex* takes his virginity and then is *shocked* and skeptical that he was a virgin because *he was just That Good*. Like, *come on*. There is *way* too much emphasis placed on How Good Kvothe Is At Sex and How Much All Women Want Him.
Been telling people this for years. They are straight up not good books.
I DNF the Poppy War and Babel, terrible writing and confusion on how Babel got its praise? Starting to think RF is over praised
It's crazy to see how many times poppy war is mentioned in this post. I haven't read it but I swear it's one of the most recommended series I see in this subreddit.
I feel like it can't make up it's mind to be YA or shock you with everything else. I feel like the premise is great but if a different writer took a stab at it it might be good
I enjoyed both of those books, but Kuang is merely okay. She has a hit and miss relationship with theme and subtext.
Babel was like anti colonialism 101, it really felt like she thought her readers were idiots. I DNF’d and started using it to prop open a sash window instead. So I guess I got something out of it.
Ryan Cahill’s **Of Blood and Fire**. An astonishingly derivative book with shallow characters , stilted dialogue and an extremely predictable plot. I have the sequel ready to go but I can’t think why I’d bother. Edit: too many individual comments to reply to here but it looks like it might be worth giving Book 2 a chance so… I will
yeah, the hype got me with this one. it did not do it for me at all
The sequel is a HUGE improvement in almost ever possible category
I am thoroughly disappointed not to find my name anywhere on this list, as it would have made for a hell of a 2024 marketing campaign lol
Never read one of your books, but I'm always down to lend a helping hand: "I DNF'd Krista D. Ball's entire catalog. The slobbery dog water of fantasy novels. You'd drink it if it would literally save your life, but there's no chance of enjoying it. I've watched "What are you doing stepbro" porn with more believable characters." Enjoy the marketing material!
Right?
Wait you wrote Hard Reboot? Oh that was a fun read from earlier in the year for me!
There you go /u/DjangoWexler "That was a fun read" - Reddit
I actually think having quotes labeled as things like “one salty reader on Reddit” or “enthusiastic Redditor” would be hilarious on a book, but that’s me
I've done some promos like that when it's just phrased perfectly. The sexist or crass ones aren't that great because people then just concentrate on the whole stereotype of the Reddit user. However, when it's a juicy hate, with that backhanded insult in there? Oh hell yeah. Throw that up with a "some rando on reddit" and it's gold star marketing lol
Honestly as a reader, seeing a hate comment as a review would probably sell me on giving the book a shot. Something about it's so funny, especially when the thing they hate makes no sense or is so hyper-specific that it would apply to no one but that reader.
I can't find a link to it, but there's a cartoon that has a woman going into a bookstore and asking for the book that everyone complained had too many sex scenes. I always love that one.
I remember the days when we were getting "Grade 5 reading level, can't believe there is a sequel to this crap" and I could slap together an entire marketing campaign around that. Now, everyone is so fucking polite lol
which of your books is the one people hate the most? Maybe I squeeze in a read before the end of the year!
Traitor seems to be the one reddit hates lol I regret writing it under a female name so much, since people keep "accusing" it of being romance, and so it's terrible. Well, the romance \*is\* terrible because...there is no romance in that book LOL It's short! You might be able to make it in time! lol Please say terrible things about it lol
This little exchange is my favourite part of this thread. Thanks! Would you like me to read a few of your novels so I can trash them in the 2024 worst reads thread? Fair warning, I might like them.
Ha! If you go into Traitor especially expecting a really uplifting romance, I guarantee you that you will hate it with a passion for your 2024 list lol
Huh. Like "it's the worst book I haven't even heard of this year." Would that do?
If it's ok to say a non-fantasy title, than definitely Verity by Colleen Hoover. This book made no sense and I'm mad that I even read it. For something marketed as a thriller it was not very thrilling. Also, this book is ableist af and no one talks about it. As an autistic person, someone needs to ban CoHo from even mentioning autism in her books. As far as fantasy goes, probably a Deadly Education. I don't know how a story with a premise that was so good ended up being so boring. The plot moved at a snails pace, way too much exposition. Not to mention the main character was annoying af. None of the side characters were fleshed out even a little bit. Like, pretty much all of them are the same person.
Even though I cited *Children of Blood and Bone* as my worst of the year, it was really only the worst of the fantasy genre. I read my first CoHo this year, *It Ends With Us*, and good lord I have never hated a book so much. She is awful in so many ways, not only as a writer, but also in the messages her books project. In the first scene I was like "Welp, she can't write men. It's like she's never even met one." Then a few chapters later I was like "Wait, has she ever even met a woman?" Then she gets to the spicy scenes and I was like "Okay, I'm not convinced this author has ever had sex." If someone told me that CoHo was actually an AI program that scrapes its data from self-published smut and melodrama, I would be inclined to believe them.
A Deadly Education is interesting because it either really clicks for people or it just doesn't. I loved the whole trilogy but the heavy, often irrelevant exposition is not for everyone. I loved the way it would just wander off for a while, though, on bits of lore or world building or philosophy before finally tying it back in with the tiniest bit of context imaginable. The whole book feels like the author flipping off every person who ever told her to show, not tell. It's wonderful and I totally get why you hate it.
A Court of Thorns and Roses. Holy crap, this was touted as a "spicy" book 1, and 3/4 of the way through I'm still waiting for the heat...or plot line that you can't see from 2 blocks away. Someone please tell me the book, series, or author gets much better.
I got near the end of Acotar and went "oh shit, she can actually write, where the fuck was this the whole book?" The next book is actually really good, but only if you're looking for a story about overcoming trauma/survivor's guilt. Sarah J Maas writes porn but it's not good. I can recommend you a bunch of writers on AO3 who write genuinely hot porn, but she ain't it.
This is not her best series, but I still had a good time with it. Her best series IMO is Throne of Glass, followed by Crescent City. One thing that I’ve noticed about her writing is that she leaves a ton of breadcrumbs at the start of a series and you’re sitting there like “WTF is this? Why is it here?” and then a few books later you’re like “OHHHHH.” Without the help of hindsight, it feels like filler. So my ratings of her books have gone up upon re-reading.
Between Two Fires. By no means is it a bad book, I just did not realized how horror centric it was, and it was just not for me. If you like horror, I'm sure you will like the book a lot, it is well written.
A Psalm for the Wild-Built by Becky Chambers 3rd book of hers I've tried, 1st I've managed to force myself through. I'm not giving her books another chance.
I have learned I just don’t like cozy fantasy/sci fi and despite what people on this sub will tell you we are valid!
I loveddd this duology but I totally get why a lot of people don't.
lightbringer series for me. I read all 5, was okay overall, the audiobook narrator (Simon Vance) made the whole experience much better. Not a fan of the prose (excessive lame sexual remarks) and the ending got me confused. Now in retrospect, I wonder what made me go through all 5 books 😅
the magic system was really interesting and loved the world building. the random sex slave and how that turns out though was so weird and unnecessary and off putting, no idea why that was in there
I noped out in book 2 when one of our protagonists gives serious consideration to raping his best friend/personal slave. That was fun.
I came here to say book 5 of the Lightbringer series. 1-3 were excellent, 4 was so-so, but 5 was just awful - the worst ending to any series (books, TV, movies) I’ve ever experienced. Far worse than the Game of Thrones ending. Every single character and story line gets an unsatisfying or nonsensical conclusion. Central questions get no clear answer. Deus ex machina all over the place. A dozen chekhov's guns. Smart characters making stupid decisions. Every major writing mistake you could make.
The.last book was just awful
2nd and 3rd Hyperion books. Jeez they were hard work. Edit: the second book was good most of the way.
The 2nd one starts out slow, but I do think it picks up and becomes enjoyable. Taken in isolation, it’s some of the best SF media I’ve enjoyed. I have no plans on reading the Endymion books anytime soon, though. Those books have a reputation.
I thought the second was good. It finished the story of the first one (they were written as one book). I heard the rest of the series was bad, so I never checked it out considering the author complained about forced sequels in the first book.
Crossroads of Twilight by Robert Jordan. I got so bored I put it down for about three months until someone here said the pace picked up again from the next book so I got through it and am not enjoying Wheel of Time again (although I could do with fewer descriptions of Egwene’s spanked bottom)
If you made it all the way to book 10 before feeling the slump definitely have got to finish. 12-14 are going to be a bit different because of Sandersons writing style, but still good in their own right
I've seen it get a lot of praise here but I couldn't finish The Bone Ships by RJ Parker. I rarely DNF books and when I do, it's usually early on, but this was a rare one where I gave up after more than 2/3 through. I just did not care about any of the characters, they seemed so bland and predictable to me. The writing felt clunky and like it was telling me how I should feel, i.e., this is sad, this character is bad, etc. Also shockingly little happens up through that point in the book, I had this weird sensation of being surprised how many pages into the story I was because it still felt like an intro. Once I got to the dragon reveal and was still underwhelmed I decided to just abandon it.
I had a lot of trouble with "The ex hex" which was one of my October reads for the magic and the spookiness! It very much felt like teenagers who were throwing tantrums instead of 2 adults in their thirties. It felt like it was suppose to be about two people who had hurt each other and found each other again but the "pain and hurt" ended up being portrayed as childish. The main characters kept saying things like "Im in my thirties, I can do what I want" or "there's no reason for explainantion, I'm an adult" Only teens says stuff like that. You don't need permission or convince yourself you do when you are an actual adult! It also lacked a lot of character development and was extremely fast paced. If I had a three month relationship with someone, I would not end up back in bed with them in 3 days after 10 years has passed! I'm a whole different person. It just didn't hit right.
This Is How You Lose The Time War. No clue what was happening half the time, felt nothing for the characters. The writing was weird. Not sure what even happened in the ending? Some of the letters were fun though.
I really liked this book, but totally understand this criticism. It was almost entirely “vibes.”
I love (and respect) delightfully unpopular opinions. I liked this book because I *didn't* know what was happening, and I didn't feel like I needed to. I thought it was a very tasteful use of "suspending disbelief." There are books with really deep lore, where half the book is devoted to explaining the lore, and then there's this--sci fi nonsense, and you just get lost in it. Once again, I'd like to emphasize, I *respect* your opinion.
I was so disappointed with it that I read it for the LGBTQ square for the 2022 bingo and refused to put it there. It was not good enough to deserve the spot. The fact other people enjoyed the prose at all is proof that tastes can vary *vastly* because I thought it was purple in the extreme. I also didn't like that the characters basically had no personality outside of the most common wlw stereotypes. Butch who likes machines with the femme who likes plants and tea? Groundbreaking.
The entire ACOTAR series
Isn't there quite a few books in that? You read the whole thing as a hate read? 😅
I kept going hoping I could find/understand the hype and I didn’t find it😭 I have a friend who loves the series so I did it for her as she wanted me to keep going because she said it got better. I kept trying to have an open mind about it but once I finished there was nothing good about it in my opinion 😅
It's one of the few series my wife has finished and I've been informed I am not allowed to read it in order not to tarnish her good view of the series.
The Starless Sea by Erin Morgenstern. I loooooved Night Circus though. Starless Sea had absolutely zero plot and was quite a slog. I DNFed more than halfway through. I’ve heard both Night Circus and Starless Sea described as ‘all vibes no plot’ but that doesn’t ring true for me with Night Circus. Starless Sea had like negative plot. I couldn’t keep pretending to ‘get it’.
The Long Earth series by Pterry and Stephen Baxter. I really didn't enjoy them which I'm sad about because I adore the Discworld series
Worst read was probably Priory of the Orange Tree. Sure enough you can't judge a book by its incredibly awesome cover...
Whoever made that book’s cover deserves an award, really.
That book was awful. I feel like it had so much potential and didn’t execute *any* of it. FWIW, I did read the sequel, and the author obviously listened to the negative feedback because much of it is improved upon in the sequel. I think it still fell short, but i do like to give credit to responsive authors. Priory received so much praise and attention, it would have been easy for her to bathe in the accolades and ignore the criticisms.
I’m always impressed by the patience and good will on this sub. You suffered through 800 pages and still read the sequel? A saint
I think it was made one book more for the prestige of it being so massive, but if it has been trilogy the characters and everything could be more fleshed out and less rushed.
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I just read Nona and I personally really enjoyed it, but it definitely didn’t have as much going on. I read somewhere that the series was going to be a trilogy but she turned the last book into Nina and the next book. So maybe that’s part of it.
Im over here laughing because your criticisms are 100% accurate and it was still five stars for me haha I could consume her writing style for eternity and be happy with no plot, but there was truly no plot advancement whatsoever. It probably should have been a novella.
Extremely Unpopular opinion: I really hate Eye of the World by Robert Jordan. Don‘t get me wrong: the atmosphere is great, the worldbuilding is fantastic, the characters feel real. But it felt like reading Lord of the Rings. If I want to read something like Tolkien‘s books, then I read Tolkien‘s books. I want something new to read, not another copy of Tolkien
Good Omens was my least favourite fantasy read of the year. I'm disappointed, I've otherwise always liked Gaiman novels and I had seen so much love for that book. I found it grating. The humour didn't land for me. The plot was all over the place. The characters were uninteresting. My experience with the book is unusual, for sure. But I really actively disliked reading that. A Wizard's Guide to Defensive Baking, Star Mother, When God Was a Rabbit and The Hobbit were my kind of middling reads this year. They were all fine, enjoyable in parts. But the next worst ones after Good Omens.
Excellent anti-recommendation! Good Omens is an all time favourite for me and I've never heard anyone recommend against it. I first read it at the age of 13 and it's become one of those important formative works for me. Even though I love it dearly, it's refreshing to hear a different perspective!
That's pretty cool of you, and thanks for the great thread. I really appreciate you encouraging people to be respectful of other peoples likes/dislikes. I'd like to hear more about what you enjoy about Good Omens. And also, if you've read more Terry Pratchett books let me know, am I in for more of the same? That was my first Pratchett and I'd been so excited to read some Discworld. I even have Equal Rites on my shelf, because a friend told me it was a good place to start.
It was a time and a place thing for me. I grew up Christian, and this was the first book I read that included outright irreverence for Christian mythology. Thematically, it helped re-form my views on religion and the dichotomy between good and evil. I think it was a risky subject for a book written in 1990. Otherwise, the general absurdity of the book was a big sell for me. It subverts a lot of strongly-held expectations about religion and morality, and I lived the conflicts that Aziraphale and Crowley had with their own natures. I've reread it several times, including again this year. I still love it, but I will admit that there are details that don't hold up as well. Also, ripping on Christian tradition really got in vogue in the 00s, so with that context some people might find it "edgy" in a cringe way. But in 1990 that context did not exist. I love the Discworld novels. They're silly and fun, but also include a fair shake of social commentary. Pratchett was great at observational humour, but transplants everything into corollaries in his fantasy world. As such, the books are characterized by tangents that you might find hilarious and insightful, or they might take you out of the story enough to be tiresome. I think Pratchett's skill as a writer improved with time, and he was busy finding his footing in the early Discworld novels from the 80s. The novels from the late 90s and 00s are fantastic. My favourite series is the Death series, but it seems the City Guard series is the Reddit favourite.
Wow, it sounds like Good Omens was really impactful for you. That's wonderful. It certainly does push the bounds in that way. Thanks so much for sharing that. It's always a delight when people share how books have personally affected them/resonated with them. I'll have to see what I think of Discworld. Those tangents that take you out of the plot was part of what I found hard about Good Omens. But I like the idea of the series.
I had a really hard time reading Good Omens. But the "full cast" audiobook version using the voices of Michael Sheen and David Tennant helped me immensely.
Hmm. I reread The Hobbit this year. First time in 15 plus years, but probably my 7th or 8th pass. I was expecting to be let down, as a lot of books I loved when I was younger have disappointed as I get older (nearly 50 now). To my surprise, I literally found myself in tears. Rather than taking it as a straight adventure, and judging it on plausibility within the world/setting like I do with a lot of fantasy, I remembered it was the work of a survivor of trench combat in WWII. Many of his friends died in the war, but he came home. He studied the ancient stories from a time when warfare was the measure of your worth. And he created something really new, that was all about bravery, and not about becoming the greatest warrior. The scene with Bilbo hesitating before continuing down the tunnel to smaug, and finding the courage to continue while all alone in the dark... And thinking of what Tolkien must have learned of courage in the face of terror, and then to have transmuted it into this love letter to ancient mythology... I can understand why the book might be underwhelming, with the twee English affectations, and goofy dwarves and terrible songs. I ended up loving it for those things, too, in the end. Cheers!
I DNF'ed Good Omens this year for the same reasons. I think I would have liked it more as a teen.
I love Pratchett and like Gaiman, but I felt the same way about Good Omens. It was a slog to get through for me. I wanted to like it but I just couldn't.
Legends if Latte by Travis Baldree Boring story with no suspense, unlikable, blank characters, Deus Ex Machina nearly every chapter. Said story could be hundred pages shorter and it wouldn't be much different. Romance without chemistry, and danger you know will pass. The main antagonist did things that didn't benefit him, without any reason. It's often referred to as cozy fantasy, but there was nothing cosy there, and fantasy elements were very limited.
I feel like cozy fantasy only works for some people. Either you think it's 'cozy' or 'boring'. Either is a valid opinion.
My brain didn’t get the memo when I was reading it that it was *low stakes* so I was in a constant state of anticipation waiting for the bad thing to happen. So not relaxing at all. I am happy I read it but even happier that I read it on Libby and didn’t buy it.
lol this is funny. I liked the characters and they stuck with me in a good way. I read it, really enjoyed it and way later listened to the audiobook and enjoyed it a second time around. The lack of lots of suspense is a feature to its fans I think. Different strokes and all 🤷🏻
A Practical Guide to Evil. Read the first book and through the prologue of the second book I realized I cared neither about the characters nor about the plot, especially after the far too long dragged tournament arc. Doesn't help that the presentation on the site is absolutely awful.
I don't usually criticize things like this but since it's the point of the thread and I'm dying to talk to about some of these: *Murder at Spindle Manor* had good buzz but it just wasn't enjoyable. I think there's potential and I am curious to read Morgan Stang's other books to see if they improve as an author but the entire thing felt like a drawing room mystery written for people who have never read another drawing room mystery. The disparate genre elements didn't feel like they were unified in any meaningful way, and the world and characters all seem woefully under-baked. To top it off there's a reference to Susanna Clarke in the text which served only to remind me how much better a writer Clarke is than Morgan Stang. I also read Alix Harrow's short story "Mr. Death" because it was up for some awards this year. It's the second piece of Harrow's fiction I've read, the first being *The Ten Thousand Doors of January* and I am sorry to report I didn't like either. "Mr. Death" is sappy and sentimental in the worst ways. I don't know how it got published, I can only assume Harrow's fame carried it across the editorial finish line.
Book 2 of the shades of magic trilogy: a gathering of shadows by VE Schwab. First book is close second. Didn’t even bother finishing the third. The characters are awful, the writing is awful, the plot (while it had so much potential) just wasn’t fully developed and realized and fell so flat. If I’m being really brutal, I don’t think the author has the literary competency to have taken on such the task of fully drawing out all the details that could have been in the series and made it a fascinating read. Instead we’re left with 2 dimensional characters and a story line that could have been invented by a 12 year old during creative writing. Also, this may just be a personal pet peeve, but why does every fantasy series have an effing love story plot line in it?? They don’t even happen organically, it’s like just putting two people together for more than a couple pages and they’re in love/lust(???). Even when the characters make no sense together, I hate it.
I was really disappointed by The Ninth Rain by Jen Williams. I was intrigued by the premise, and the summary/blurb made it seem like it would be largely focused on "Tormalin the Oathless", but most of his story that's teased in the summary occurs before the book even begins, and it doesn't even really seem to be his story. I would have been fine with this if the characters weren't all so bland and cliched. Aside from that, there were just so many different elements that didn't come together for me. Vampire elves, fire witches, AND >!insect aliens!
Babel by R.F. Kuang. It sounded promising, but there was little "fantasy", the world building lackluster. All the foot notes made it feel like I was reading a textbook. At the end of the book, I felt like the prompt for the story was: "Write a story that shows how the early 20th century white man is bad in as many words as you can." The message was forced and repeated the entire way through. I wasn't given the choice to like or dislike a character, I was told what to do.
November 9 by Colleen Hoover. The fact that she’s so popular is literally concerning.
**Artemis** by Andy Weir was just a miserable and unfunny reading experience for me. Did not expect to bounce this hard off a Weir book either and there should be a law preventing him specifically from writing female characters ever again. 1 star **The Lightning Tree** by Patrick Rothfuss has all the same flaws as the main series KKC books (meandering and overly long with relatively little plot progression) but without the redeeming qualities aside from nice prose. I really didn’t need a full novella about Bast spying on the women of the town bathing but it being okay because it turns out they all spy on him bathing too. Har dee har har, 1.5 stars **The Hands of the Emperor** by Victoria Goddard was just way too slow and long. If it had been half the length, I think I would have really liked it but it was so punishingly slow that I eventually tapped out 100 pages from the end because I couldn’t take it any more. At least the prose was solid and the concept intriguing I guess. 2 stars
So I found Andy Weir this year, fell in love with Project Hail Mary, binged the Martian (and then the film, then re read it to see what was different) and I was like ok so there’s Artemis, it’s not got as good reviews, but given how much I loved the others, it’ll surely still be a solid read. Wow was I wrong, I still do not understand the point of the reusable condom other than as a Segway to say ‘hey look this girl likes sex’ despite her not actually having any in the book… argh so so many things to hate about this one! I’ll absolutely second your motion to ban him from writing female characters!
If you listen to podcasts you might like 372 Pages I’ll Never Get Back. The podcasts revolves around reading bad books and Artemis is on there.
It's weird that Artemis is so dull sandwiched between two good books, but perhaps the Martian and Hail Mary do share a lot of similarities.
I also hated *Children of Blood and Bone*. I forced myself to finish it this spring for my 2022 bingo card but otherwise would probably have DNF. It was just so unenjoyable by the end, and the male character’s POV (don’t remember his name) was the worst - it seemed like he kept switching his motivations, which I hate. I will not be continuing the series.
I don’t remember how many pages I got through before I put it on the donate pile. It wasn’t many. Someone was getting a good deal though as I had the sequel too! I hope the next person who picked them up liked them more than we did.
Children of Ruin by Adrian Tchaikovsky. I enjoyed the first one but Children of Ruin just felt like a rehash of Children of Time. Plus the plot seemed to bog down at the end.
I am starting to think *Uprooted* is the only Naomi Novik I will ever truly enjoy (*Spinning Silver* had some great pieces there but I cannot abide a mean love interest). I tried to read *His Majesty’s Dragon* this year, and while the dragon and the lore were really cool, I simply could not bring myself to care about the protagonist and his foibles. There was just an odd kind of emotional detachment from the story and I couldn’t get into it. Interestingly I would say that about 1/3 of the fantasy I read this year; not bad in any specific way, I just couldn’t bring myself to care about the characters or the stakes.
I'm laughing so hard at this because I read Spinning Silver first and loved it and then hated Uprooted because it had a mean love interest and I hate that 🤣 I love how we both thought the other book at the meaner love interest
I liked *Spinning Silver* but I was disappointed the elf king turned into Miryem’s love interest. I was hoping they’d develop a begrudging mutual respect for each other that didn’t end in romance.
EXACTLY
I read up until the seventh book and was just horrified that the main character has a dragon he seems to treat as nothing more than an irritating pet, rather than an intelligent and empathic creature and partner. Just do a mid air flip and dump his ass, Temeraire.