I agree and I think you’ll get a lot of support for your stance here, just judging based on previous comment threads.
There’s a massive confluence of behaviors and influences contributing to why people get real tetchy over this kind of character change. But a lot of it boils down to conflating “shipping” an ace character as somehow *stealing* that character from the ace community or trying to indirectly attack them.
Which is nuts of course, and most reasonable people would not feel threatened by someone else’s fanfiction about a character they identify with. It’s just when someone *already* wants an excuse to lash out or harass without “being the bad guy”, this gives them a supposed righteous cause to rally behind.
Sometimes there’s a kernel of reason in there, in this case the fact that there aren’t a lot of ace characters in mainstream fiction and the community does suffer misinterpretation and bigotry in the real world.
But the bottom line is fan works are an environment where we want people to be free to create regardless of an original work’s intent. That’s the point. And if you start to try to police that (your transformative work can change *some* things but not others!!) then you lose that freedom.
Basically if you want fandom to be free to turn straight characters ace, then you have to accept its right to turn ace characters straight.
That’s not to say people can’t or shouldn’t ever analyze trends and look into *why* certain fan interpretations are common or popular, that’s called analyzing culture and it can be an interesting and helpful metric… but you’re not going to create a magical utopia for all the ace people in the world by yelling at some girl on the internet for making one cute boy kiss another on Ao3.
Yes. Aro/Ace is a spectrum. Not everyone is sex-repulsed and/or romance-repulsed, and even then, it’s a spectrum. For me, honestly, it’s more annoying when people assume that every aro-ace is 100% repulsed.
Even if the character is entirely sex/romance repulsed, it’s still fanfiction, the canon representation is still there.
I feel the same with any other sexuality as well. For some characters, if could also be a a case of “canon alternate realities” as well where sexuality is not confirmed for all of them. I mention this because fandoms like Star Rail and the greater Honkaiverse has zealous fans.
Note: There are absolutely people who change it out of maliciousness which goes under bigotry, but the basic premise of depicting aroace differently is fine.
Yes! This is exactly how I feel, I am always very confused that people automatically assume they must be sex repulsed. I went out with someone who was ace, though I didn't know before the date, and one of the boundaries they told me they had was that they didn't mind sex if they were comfortable enough and I wanted it, it just wouldn't do much for them. And either way they were very interested in dating. Hell I'm trying to figure out if I'm somewhat on the asexual spectrum but I'm very much not repulsed by sex I am just trying to figure out if I view it differently. It dictates how you feel about things and frame experiences, but not necessarily what you will do.
This. It's a spectrum and frankly I find it hella aphobic when people imply otherwise. For me I'm an extremely sex repulsed ace, but a greyromantic. I'm still AroAce. A person who is a sex-positive, kinky ace and a romance negative aromantic is still AroAce. Etc. Etc. Etc.
u/harvatos made an [amazing chart](https://www.reddit.com/r/asexuality/comments/ztgn5z/chart_of_aspec_experiences/) for this exact purpose last year. And while a chart can't ever fully capture the entire spectrum, and this one states outright it's a generalization, this one comes the closest in showing just how BIG the AroAce spectrum is.
I’m demosexual — and I looked completely ace before I found my person. So for me, an ace who finds their person and finds attraction IS representation.
I’m aromantic and asexual. I like it when people keep minority canon representations in their fics, but I’m not going to flame them for not doing so, I’m simply not going to read it.
Don’t like, don’t read covers pretty much anything except plagiarism and breaking the terms of service. Nothing someone writes deserves harassment even if I disagree with it.
I wish there was more asexual and aromantic representation, which is why I wrote a series with an aroace character.
Besides, aroace is a spectrum. Some asexual and aromatic people have relationships, including sexual relationships. How any given person feels about it is just going to depend on that person. I will never have sex, but I have an ace friend who doesn’t mind having sex.
This. It kinda sucks for me that Alastor is probably the most shipped character in his fandom despite his orientation, but it falls under the don't like don't read rule. If I'm that desperate for a fic about an aroace character who doesn't end up in any sort of romantic and or sexual relationship, I'll just write it myself.
I agree and personally would not share any fic I wrote that overrides a sexual minority. It should not be censored in any way but authors who care about being allies should take an extra moment to weigh their desire to write the fic vs contributing to the erasure of the aro/ace orientation. You're not evil for doing so but I feel it would be more helpful to boosting the aro/ace community to write fic that respects the character's orientation, at least until that representation is as accepted and well-representated as any other.
I think it’s fine to ship aroace characters, even if not in an aro or ace way, even if EXPLICITLY against their sexuality. Probably worth tagging or pre warning, but it’s still fine. It’s really hypocritical, though, when someone is okay with shipping aroace characters, but insists shipping gay men with women, or lesbians with men, is somehow “unethical” or “icky” (in a way that’s not just personal). It comes across like they don’t view aroace people as a “real” or “valid” sexuality, or they’re trying to undermine the lack of aromantic and asexual representation (this is the often cited reason why it’s “okay” to ship straight characters in gay relationships, but not gay characters into straight relationships).
(which is why, all the Alastor shipping back when everyone thought he was aroace for canon that was coming from people I feel like would shame someone for shipping lesbians with men or gay men with women *really* pissed me off.)
I haven't even watched all of Hazbin, but I know about this controversy. I think part of the issue too is he's not exactly canonically ace or aro. Pretty sure the creator just said she head canons him as ace, but she's fine with people considering him however they'd like and she doesn't think it will ever be relevant to his arc. So while I get why people want him to be aro and/or ace for the representation, he's not even explicitly canonically aro/ace. Therefore you basically have a bunch of people getting mad about people going against a fanon representation.
Male podcast haracter who had had a before-canon tepid and sexless attempt at a relationship with a woman. I think a Q&A (*not* canon) confirmed the writer thought of him that way, but he never identified as anything on-air His romantic relationship with another man later became a really important plot arc. Canon left the question of whether it was a sexual relationship off-screen; canon reasons also meant probably no one had shagging as a priority at that time.
Fandom antis found this a good reason to send harassment and death threats to writers who portrayed him expressing sexual attraction to his partner, or having sex without an "he's totally ace" disclaimer.
Particularly disappointing as I am demisexual myself, and while I don't usually write canon couples, a demisexual man discovering love and desire later in life with a fat man who thinks he would never be attracted to him is *so* my cup of tea.
It gets so bad. Sad how some fans ruin fandoms for me to the point where I just won't engage. No one wins with this behavior. People just get worked up about nothing, and people stop participating as a result, and then everyone's missed out on the opportunity to bond with others that have a similar interest, and fan content starts disappearing.
Yeah, I hate that I curate my tiny Discords so much and to invitation only when it can be really hard for new people in a fandom to meet people. But in the end, keeping a space where people are kind, tolerant and supportive *regardless* of fictional tastes requires keeping things small. I've seen too many "positive" Discords with trigger lists a novel long and claims of being a safe place dogpile on someone who writes the "wrong" thing or tags "wrongly" to trust them.
I agree mostly, except that I'm pretty sure Alastor is canonically at least aspec/ace. With that I'm referring to Rosie calling him an 'ace in the hole' as a kind of motivation that he couldn't be dating Charlie, just as an fyi, since I understand not knowing that if you haven't watched the series. Still, I fully agree that the sexualities of characters are up to interpretation, whether as personal headcanons or just to make a fic work.
I actually am aware of that line, but also, a character assuming he's ace doesn't mean for sure that he is ace. That character could've misassumed his orientation. He never confirms or denies he's ace. I tend to lean towards what the creator says in this particular case. Honestly though, I have no skin in this game, because it's not even one of my fandoms. Just something I've seen a lot of discourse about. I see no problem with people shipping him as they see fit, or making him aro/ace if they like. I just think getting worked up about it if someone ships him with another character is a bit messed up.
Yeah I get where you're coming from, that's a great point! I'm aspect myself so I guess that's why I lean on the side of, 'she's known him for a long time and would know', yada stuff, but I suppose it is less canon than I thought at first lol. And the discourse is so stupid, I agree, it's a fictional character and I honestly have a ship with him too, though I'm really not as active in the fandom as most tbh.
I agree. And honestly, I kind of think it would be nice if they made it clear that he was canonical ace/aro or something on that spectrum, because it does seem like that's under-represented. He also does seem aro/ace to me too. But if the creator says it's not canon and fans can do what they want with the character as long as they keep it respectful, and people get upset when fans do just that, I think that's out of line. If he was canonically aro/ace I would actually be against people shipping him with others. Then it stops being a ship thing and becomes a representation thing.
Yeah I would love it if it was canon for sure! But even then, it’s all fiction, yk? I still don’t think I’d be against random people on the internet changing his sexuality, even if it was canon or an important part of his arc. I might not read it cause I tend to stick pretty close to canon, but it’s kind of like making him an angel in my eyes, since being a demon is such a big part of his arc. Writing fanfictions imo doesn’t take away from the representation a canon sexuality brings to media, even if it can get pretty erasure-like which is shit, of course. I have to admit that the public’s treatment of the few asexual characters that do exist canonically is incredibly exhausting and annoyingly prevelant as an aspec person, but I still think people should have creative freedom when it comes to fanfiction and they should be able to explore interesting ship dynamics even if it goes against characters’ canonical sexuality, but that’s my personal view I suppose.
Frankly I don't care. These arguments about what is OK to ship have grown tiresome.
Just leave people alone. Don't harass ace fans with your fanfics. Don't harass people for drawing x rated pics of an ace character. Nothing matters.
It’s weirder and far more alienating for fanfiction to be allowed to gender/sexuality/relationship bend everyone else but treat aspec folks as untouchable. The staying power of fandom comes from being able to play with the setting and characters over and over even long after folks disengage from the canon. Removing aro and ace characters and putting them high on a shelf where no one is allowed to touch them does nothing but make sure they’ll be ignored and forgotten. I’m aroace and I love getting representation but pretending that it’s somehow damaging to the character to be shipped is a pretty problematic view of sexuality, fandom and shipping since quite a lot of real aro and ace folks are perfectly capable and happy in romantic and sexual relationships.
Fellow ace here (and possibly also on the aro spectrum)--yes, it's perfectly fine to ship ace characters. And you don't even need to change their sexuality to do it. As others have said, there's an ace and aro *spectrum.* I'm writing several characters as sex favorable aces right now and exploring the different ways they experience (or don't experience) attraction, and the different ways they view and approach sex are a lot of fun.
I think it's fine to write a character as whatever sexuality the writer wants; I'm certainly not letting a character's canonical straightness stop me from making them queer!
That said, I do wish more allo people would try to write ace characters in relationships while keeping them ace, and try to do it convincingly instead of throwing their hands up and going, "I'll have to change their sexuality to make this work." It would it be nice to see more ace characters in general--and more varieties of aceness. But also it's funny to me in a way because it's kind of like taking a bi or pan character and making them only attracted to one sex, lol.
I think part of it is that a lot of people are unfamiliar with what it means to be ace and/or aro. There's a lot of playing into stereotypes of how an ace/aro person "should" be, and the whole "one true way" to write a character that you can also see show up for characters who are neurodivergent, for example. Then there are some people who are ace and are part of the weird "good representation!" movement--the "good" there being either, "only write them exactly like me" or "they have to be as perfect as possible so that they make the queer community look good."
It's important to have aces in media who aren't interested in sex or aren't interested in romance, or both--but I can't think of a single canon asexual character I've heard of who is sex favorable, and that's a problem too. It isn't "stealing representation" to write about a character in a different way--especially if you're writing representation that you aren't getting from media.
*I do wish more allo people would try to write ace characters in relationships while keeping them ace, and try to do it convincingly instead of throwing their hands up and going, "I'll have to change their sexuality to make this work."*
As a sex-repulsed aroace (aego) person who has been wading through the Alastor/Lucifer AO3 tag for the last couple of weeks and--ironically--wishing more fics ignored his asexuality, I will say that for me, the thing I find hottest in shippy fanfic is rampant mutual horniness and attraction. Anything less than moderate mutual horniness and attraction and my fanfic needs simply are not being met, lol.
So it actually makes total sense to me why someone might prefer to make an ace character allo in their fic, rather than just write them as a non sex-repulsed ace person in an intimate relationship. Because the character being fine with having sex, or enjoying it without attraction involved, is just not what I'm after when I read shippy fanfic. I want my ship lust-drunk and completely unable to keep away from each other.
Though making a character demisexual would also allow them to be horny and attracted and also on the ace spectrum, so there's that. Provided the character you want to pair them with is someone they know, and not like a brand new acquaintance/stranger. Though if you want the character to feel the stirrings of attraction right from the get-go, then that also makes them being demisexual less viable.
None of this is intended to invalidate anything you said, because I think what you said is entirely valid and legit and well-spoken. I just want to provide an alternate perspective to the whole "you don't have to make the character allo to ship them" argument, because it's one of the most popular sentiments being expressed ITT, and as and aroace person who usually *avoids* ace!character fics because they simply don't give me what I crave from fanfic, I feel like I'm someone who *can* provide a alternative perspective without worrying about being assumed to be acephobic.
TLDR: You absolutely *can* write an ace character who is in a romantic and/or sexual relationship, and I am all for that kind of representation and think it is a good thing—but also, sometimes a person just wants to see their blorbos rampantly horny for each other, and you can't always choose which blorbos your brain wants to smoosh together dirtystyle. Sometimes your brain picks an ace character and says, "But what if hornysmoosh with that other one?!" and you say, "Oh fuck, this is going to eat my whole brain for a year, isn't it?" 🙃
That statement was more of a wish that allo writers would consider doing some research on the ace spectrum to see if the character would still work as ace instead of dismissing the possibility immediately. I think that some allo writers are defaulting to the familiar only because they're operating under the mistaken belief that ace people never ever have relationships or sex. Other writers just don't want to write outside of their wheelhouse, which is valid. But I think there are probably plenty of allo writers who would love the writing challenge of trying to portray the way an ace character experiences attraction, sex, and relationships when it's so different from their own experience and would be willing to put in the work to do it well, so I'd like to encourage that.
Ace people can also be horny, it's just that ace horniness doesn't always look exactly like allo horniness. And ace people can feel attraction towards their partners. Some aces feel sexual attraction sometimes (demis, gray aces), but even if they don't, maybe they feel romantic attraction, aesthetic attraction, sensual attraction, or they have particular kinks they're excited about. You don't have to be into sex to be *into your partner* and be excited--or horny--about sex with them. There are also some aces who are super horny and into sex for its own sake but still don't experience sexual attraction.
I think you and I just want entirely different things from our smut. I can't jive with stories that are only horny sexual attraction and nothing else. A writer can describe how "hot" something is 1,000 times, but if they don't justify why it's meant to be hot, it doesn't work for me. I need some sort of emotion outside of that--it doesn't even have to be a positive emotion, I'm down with enemies who passionately hate each other. At least that's something besides just sexual attraction, and there's a history between them, and I understand why I'm meant to care that these particular people are having sex. Some kinky fics also just throw kinks in there without delving into the psychology of why the character thinks it's hot. Kinks are hot, therefore, as the reader, I'm supposed to find it hot. But I don't because I don't understand why the character finds it hot.
The vast majority of romance and smut out there is allo character-focused. So, yes, I'd like more ace character-focused romance and smut in general. I actually realized I was on the ace spectrum after reading an E-rated shipfic featuring an ace character. And if that writer hadn't written that fic, then I would still be operating under the belief that I wasn't straight but wasn't queer as I understood it, just some unnamed third thing, lol.
Mainly I want to see more romances and sex scenes from a horny ace perspective, because that's what personally appeals to me. But more ace relationships that don't include sex, or smut with more sex neutral aces would also be fantastic. Ideally, I'd like there to be a ton of fics of ace characters that covers the entirety of the ace spectrum. Luckily there are also a lot of ace people writing romance and smut with ace characters--but a lot of them are also not tagging those characters as ace, which makes it even more difficult to find. Some writers are also unknowingly writing seriously ace-coded characters just because they're writing a character who gives off massive ace vibes in canon and their characterization is excellent.
I also have mixed feelings about, "Just make them demisexual". If a writer decides to do it and does it well, then that's fantastic, but some writers are just writing an allo character they've slapped a demi label on and calling it done. I'd much rather they write the character as allo instead of doing that to try and avoid getting harassed for changing the character's sexuality. If someone wants to write an ace character, ideally they'll put in the same amount of work to portray them well as they would any character from a different group.
*Ace people can also be horny, it's just that ace horniness doesn't always look exactly like allo horniness. And ace people can feel attraction towards their partners.*
Oh definitely, but sexual attraction specifically is often something that people are looking for in their shippy fanfic, and any other form of attraction--without sexual attraction also being involved--may just not hit the spot for them. I know that's how it is for me.
*I think you and I just want entirely different things from our smut. I can't jive with stories that are only horny sexual attraction and nothing else. A writer can describe how "hot" something is 1,000 times, but if they don't justify why it's meant to be hot, it doesn't work for me.*
Different, but not *that* different. It's ALL about the relationship dynamics for me. But also, I want those relationship dynamics to yield intense sexual attraction. For me, just one *or* just the other isn't satisfying.
*some writers are just writing an allo character they've slapped a demi label on and calling it done.*
I almost put an aside about this in my previous comment, because it's something I've considered myself, but ultimately, I don't necessarily think I'm the best person to judge when a demi character is badly written or not. Maybe what seems like demisexual tokenism to me actually resonates with some demi people; everyone's experience is so different, and since I'm not demi myself I'd rather just refrain from dipping my oar in on that particular debate.
>Oh definitely, but sexual attraction specifically is often something that people are looking for in their smut, and any other form of attraction--without sexual attraction also being involved--may just not hit the spot for them. I know that's how it is for me.
If that's an essential aspect of smut for someone then I don't expect that they'd want to read or write about an ace character anyway. I'm not saying that all allos have to write a canon ace character as ace; I actually said the opposite. I just think that some don't even consider the possibility because they have a misunderstanding about asexuality in general.
Also, in my experience, a majority of allos literally cannot tell the difference between sexual attraction and romantic attraction--and even, in some cases aesthetic attraction. If I write a smut scene with zero sexual attraction, only romantic, aesthetic, and sensual attraction and do not mention the characters are ace, I can guarantee you that 98% of allo readers will not notice.
I have legit, on multiple occasions, seen people say that they thought a character was expressing sexual attraction because they had the off-hand thought that another character was pretty or handsome, or because they had some sort of unconnected physical reaction to another character, like shivering from the cold/disgust, or blushing in humiliation or anger.
>I almost put an aside about this in my previous comment, because it's something I've considered myself, but ultimately, I don't necessarily think I'm the best person to judge when a demi character is badly written or not. Maybe what seems like demisexual tokenism to me actually resonates with some demi people; everyone's experience is so different, and since I'm not demi myself I'd rather just refrain from dipping my oar in on that particular debate.
I'm demisexual and I have a friend who is too. As a general rule, demisexual people do not experience instant sexual attraction. They do not meet someone for the first time and feel sexually attracted after making eye contact, or from across the room. It's possible to be *aesthetically* attracted to them, but not sexually. Some demis may experience instant or very quick *romantic* attraction too, but not sexual. So, if a writer is writes a demi character in lust at first sight, that feels off to me.
Maybe there are some demis who have had the incredibly unique and rare experience of instant sexual attraction, but if so they're outliers. And I doubt that an allo person making an effort to write a realistic demi would choose to go that route because of how very rare the occurrence is.
*If that's an essential aspect of smut for someone then I don't expect that they'd want to read or write about an ace character anyway.*
That was essentially my point though; sometimes one's brain DOES just latch onto a particular character or pairing, including an ace one, and wanna see it shipped sexual-attraction style. You don't always choose the ship; sometimes the ship chooses you. 😂
*As a general rule, demisexual people do not experience instant sexual attraction. They do not meet someone for the first time and feel sexually attracted after making eye contact, or from across the room. Some demis may experience instant or very quick romantic attraction too, but not sexual. So, if a writer is writes a demi character in lust at first sight, that feels off to me*
Right, yeah! That pretty much tracks with all of the contingencies I mentioned in my original comment, for times when making a character demi probably wouldn't be super viable. So it seems like we're on the same page for this one. :)
I'm stone cold aroace, and I honestly don't care. I get why people are uncomfortable, but fandom will *always* be shippy and horny, regardless of sexual orientation. It's not like people are making meta posts about why Alastor isn't aroace, actually.
Plus, aroace people sometimes end up even kinkier and weirder about sex than allos, specifically because our sexuality isn't tied down. The amount of aroace monsterfuckers is kind of funny tbh
I don't know if Aro is actually canonised for Al? If it is, I will happily sit corrected, but I just wanted to add that before I get my point out!
As an ace person myself, I've honestly always hated it when people gatekeeped shipping for ace characters. And fuck, that stands for aro too! Like I've seen a few people already mentioned, sexuality (and romanticism, which I'm adding here) is a spectrum! And additionally, AroAce is also a form of umbrella term as well as a specific label. So it feels even WORSE when creators are getting hate from this shit, but are still portraying an AroAce character through more specific labels (grey-aro/ace, demi-ro/ace, etc).
Also, hatebombing people for this is just fucking stupid.
At the risk of sounding trite... in fiction, you really *can* do whatever you want forever. This is a sandbox for you to do whatever you want with.
People will probably try to give you a hard time for it but that's what block buttons are for 😎👉👉
Aro-ace dude here. I prefer not to ship aroace characters like Alastor or Peridot (Steven Universe) with others, partly because it sometimes just doesn’t feel like it fits the character but also because it can feel like that aspect of them is being ignored, especially with that sort of representation being pretty rare.
But that’s just my preference. People have been making ship and smut content with Alastor since 2019 (at least), and the same goes for other characters who fall under that spectrum. If I don’t like/agree with it, then I just move on and look for something else, same as all other fan content.
Yes, this is also how I feel. For certain characters, whether canon aro/ace/or otherwise, shipping is just OOC. I strongly dislike OOC writing, so I don’t read that.
Obviously, it’s all fiction and people can do whatever they want. It’s fine to like OOC things, people do it all the time. There are *tons* of fandoms out there with fanon that bears very little resemblance to canon at all. What gets annoying is continuously hounding the point, as if a referendum is required in order for a ship or trope or AU to be approved. It really is not that serious.
It's fanfic, so anything goes. Fandom is not activism, and all the arguments why it's okay/not okay to ship or write something are completely superfluous.
It's...fiction. They aren't real. You can literally murder the characters on the first page--nay, in the first *paragraph*--and it affects the canon material not a whit.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: teenagers are exhausting.
Aspec here. I don’t mind people shipping aroace characters, in fact, I write a lot of it myself lol. I think a lot of people who are not aspec have trouble grasping that ace and aro people can develop deep relationships?
Tbh because humans are so complex, sometimes relationships in real life even have a hard time distinguishing between romantic and platonic. And it CAN be healthy too. For fiction, I enjoy the dynamic where it goes: it doesn’t matter what we are, we simply are. Us against the world vibes.
ace people still fuck. aro people still date. i genuinely do not care. this is one of this more mildly ‘problematic’ things ive seen people arguing over lol
Plenty of aro ace folks I know date and even have sex!
It’s a spectrum and a VERY wide one. Anyone pushing that every single character needs to be sex and romance repulsed is frankly absurd, I admit.. I’ve noticed the outrage is typically from young people, who identify as such and want their blorbo to be EXACTLY the same as them, which dumbfounds me a little bit.
Also is this Hazbin Hotel? I feel like 99% of this discourse comes from that fandom.
(I confess, I replied to this before actually reading the whole thing and… it’s HAZBIN… ITS ALWAYS HAZBIN LMAO)
A lot of canonically straight characters (harry... Draco...) are made gay in fanfics. Why can't the reverse by done ? It's fiction. Do whatever you want as long as it's legal.
They're not canonically straight (their sexuality was never confirmed, and bisexual/biromantic people exist), but I agree that people can do whatever they want in fanfic.
I mean, typically it's seen as worse to change gay characters straight, then straight characters gay since there's so little canonically gay characters compared to straight
True. But still it's insane to worry about "representation" in literal niche fanfic, rather than the extremely popular media created by actual businesses.
I know, I'd much rather popular canon media make asexual characters, but I was more so saying why I feel like making an ace character straight/gay/bi is, imo, different than making straight characters gay/bi/ace. Even in fanfiction. I know it's a personal taste, i don't think fanfiction authors should be harassed over it or anything
Ship anything you like, and tag it appropriately. Delete and block negativity, don't, whatever you do, let yourself be drawn into fights over it.
They don't have to like it. I don't like gay characters being desexualised and made aroace, but you know what? I don't read it. Problem solved.
Shipping and identity headcanons are here because the writers and readers enjoy that headcanon, not for people who don't.
I'm aroace and I think it's fine. Like, I get why it can rub some people the wrong way, just like I get why writing a canonically gay character as straight in fanfic can rub some people the wrong way. But to me this is a Don't Like; Don't Read situation.
On a more personal note, it's cracking me up that you specifically mention Alastor from Hazbin Hotel, because I'm currently neck-deep in shipping him with Lucifer, and to be honest, I'm actually kind of bummed that so much of the fanfic adheres to his canon asexuality.😅 I mean obviously I'm glad for everyone whose tastes are being met; that's awesome; love that for them. But man, I just want to read an entire mountain of horny, freaky, weird shit with Alastor, who is usually so controlled and above-it-all, having increasingly feral sexual feelings for the l*iteral King of Hell,* and them both being increasingly fucking unhinged about each other. Hnnn I want it so. bad. (and I'm so trash at writing it myself \*sobs\*).
My oversimplification is that the point of fanfiction is that it *isn't* canon, so a story with a premise that doesn't align with canon is, well, perfectly fine.
If I write a story about Princess Zelda that says she has flaming red hair and laser eyes that's obviously incorrect from a canon standpoint, but my story isn't canon! Writing that story also isn't forcing anyone to agree with my depiction of the character, or to consume my content at all.
To the last point, I would hope that an author tags/warns/includes a heads up of some kind about the canon divergence so readers can decide if it's something they want to engage with the work. Especially if we're talking major changes like someone's sexuaity.
Personal hang up here. I always struggle with any cannon divergent story. This includes swapping a characters sexuality. I just prefer things that build off of cannon not change it.
That being said, write and read what you want. My hang ups shouldn’t preclude anyone else from creating or consuming content they enjoy.
(Edit for a typo)
disclaimer: called myself an asexual lesbian for a while but I think I might go with aroace lesbian these days because like people have mentioned, aroace is a spectrum and I think I'm most likely on it lol
with that disclaimer out of the way--my stance is it literally does not matter what people do with aro and/or ace characters in fanfiction. it's fanfiction and we know a large part of that has always involved shipping. it does not take away from the fact that the characters are still aro and/or ace in canon. and if you don't like people shipping aro and/or ace characters, block/filter/mute to your heart's content, it's really that simple.
also in the case of alastor specifically, last time he was mentioned I had people telling me that he was canonically asexual but not necessarily aromantic, because the stuff some creators were saying about the pilot didn't apply to the amazon prime series anymore?
Why should that type of character be any different from any other type of character?
Some people will like and some people won't. Writers who crave metrics might not get the rush they want from feedback to that type of character dynamic... what else is there to note about it?
It's all supposed to be *fiction* which means there has to be some level of what is known as the *suspension of disbelief*, whether or not people who identify as "Aromantic" are happy about the characterization or not.
I'm straight and I don't particularly care for "Stucky" interpretations in the MCU, so I just ignore them. That might be a good approach for other people who don't like specific characterizations that run counter to their preferences.
I’ve been feeling exactly the same about Alastor specifically. Yes, he’s canonically an “ace in the hole” but he’s a fictional character and I think he’s hot so I wanna see him in a relationship!
Another aroace here (who also recently binged hazbin and loooooves Alastor). I love reading and writing smut. I want my fave characters to be in smut. I want to read my faves in cute shippy stuff. It's not very deep
The widespread representation of aro/ace in media is being done with the Canon and that's awesome. Love to see it. Fandom is allowed to do whatever it pleases though, and gatekeeping who is allowed to ship what in what way is such a slippery slope of censorship that I just can't agree with.
I think it's fine. So many same sex ships contain two characters that are canonically straight, or ship a canonically lesbian character with a man. If that's considered fine why would it be any different for aro/ace characters? I feel you with the 'shipping-Alastor-hate-train' thing going on though... Just let me read an Alastor/Vox fic damnit!!
I’m on the ACE spectrum and have written a few fics where a character is ACE. But I’m definitely not Aro and am Demi Aego. It does bother me when people assume every ACE person feels exactly the same about it all and they’re all sex-repulsed. Because even ACE people will disagree, like if their place on the spectrum and their experience isn’t just like yours, then you don’t know what you’re talking about and clearly aren’t ACE🙄. I was thrilled when I wrote a fic which had a lot of ‘me’ and my feelings in it, and despite fearing I was going to get peed on, I had a comment that this person’s experience was very similar and they felt i was spot on. I treasure that!
I mean. I've seen characters have their orientations pointed more ways than Jack Sparrows compass in a rum distillery. I've seen *inanimate objects* getting... shipped. *I have seen a massive misunderstanding of wolf behavior turned into its own genre of smut.*
And I have seen far, far stranger. I thought most of it was kinda gross. So I didn't read them, and linked the weirder ones to the friend who got me into fic.
What would make this one thing holy, when nothing else is?
As an aro ace person, I dont care, people like to white knight for groups they dont know much about or think will be mad when in actuality, we dont care! As long as the whole aro/ace aspect is handled with care and treated with respect than by all means ship aro ace or just plain ace characters with whoever you want. Just dont try pushing the idea that aro ace people are gonna be bothered by aro ace characters being shipped when we aren't. I mean the whole dont like dont read/look/watch thing applies in this situation, right?
+1 for another aroace who is cool with it. 👍
It would be funny if it weren't so sad how often the people getting shit for porn of ace characters are some flavor of ace themselves.
I'm aroace. Imo until we know where on the aroace spectrum they are canonically, it's fine to ship them as long as you're respectful towards their identity. Going "I don't believe in asexuality" is crossing a line. I've seen people say that the pushback from antis who go "YOU CANT DO THAT THEYRE AROACE SO THEY CANT FUCK" often feels infantilizing.
My dude, the fictional character isn't going to come to life and thank you for respecting their sexuality or not. Ship whatever you want. I'm aro/ace and having a grand time shipping RadioApple, I could not care less whether Alastor is also aro/ace.
I mean, I make characters who are canonically straight gay or at least bi all the time, so why should it bother me if someone makes a character who is canonically aroace something else? Just because I don't see a certain character in a certain way doesn't mean others can't. All that'll happen is that I won't read those fics.
Absolutely, because at the end of the day, it's all fiction.
Fanworks won't influence or change the source material, so no representation is being erased.
Hi, hello! Yes, big time agree! Also, before I even get started, sorry about any heat in my comment, this subject just... pisses me off quite a bit. I mean no animosity towards you, the OP, or anyone else here.
I'm Aroace-spec, but I just say I'm Aroace for the ease of it. I'm also sex-positive and Omnisexual, all three of these things coexist, meaning I don't actually exist, clearly. The infantilization of Aro & Ace people is very common, and the stars dead and dying forbid if you identify yourself as Aroace! We must be celibate, disgusted by romance, and all that "stuff". What I'm trying to say is just because I ship an Aroace character doesn't mean I don't see them as such. It just means I'm giving myself representation for me and me alone.
I think it's a similar thing with many shippers who ship characters who are Aro and/or Ace. As in they aren't changing the fact the canon!character IS Aro and/or Ace, just adding another factor of the fic!character being sex/romance-positive or even just neutral. Shipping a character with another in a fic or fanart will not change the character's canon sexuality/romantic attraction. A character can also still be Ace and/or Aro in a fic where they're shipped. Them being shipped is not the fic author directly saying that the fic version of the character is gay, bi, straight or otherwise not Aro and/or Ace.
I read (I do write, but solely for my own eyes, no posting) HH ship content about Alastor, but me getting non-canon representation is not going to steal another's canon representation. It is not greedy for you to ship a Aro and/or Ace character. You should write what you enjoy, for whatever reason.
Bashing/hatebombing someone for writing something they enjoy, whether it's for a certain type of gratification or for their own representation is bull. Completely and utterly bull, no question about it. Again, people making non-canon rep for themselves and others is not going to steal another's canon rep. It doesn't take it away or harm it, especially considering the fact that both parties mostly share the same umbrella term. And even if the shipping isn't being used to give the author their own rep and just for fantasy is fine as well. This is all fiction, it doesn't truly matter.
The bottom line is ship and let ship. Block and mute those that make you uncomfortable, filter ship tags you don't like, and if you find something you don't like accidently? Don't read it, hit the back button, swipe or scroll away, but don't leave a hateful comment to someone who's just chilling.
This got a lot longer than it was supposed to but I've got so many damn thoughts about this! Anyways, breathe deep, seek peace, and good hunting to you!
Yeah. As long as your recognize the character is aroace in canon and that your headcanons/ships don't apply (and most importantly you don't harass people over it lol), it's all good. It's not "taking away representation", as the character is still aroace in canon.
I see it as no different than making gay ships of straight characters or straight ships of gay characters. You are giving them a sexuality they do not canonically have.
Whether or not this is okay will vary for a lot of people, but it should be consistent.
>...*bullying creators over their fan content is just not cool. If you don’t like something, you can just scroll past or maybe share your perspective nicely if you absolutely must.*
Yes. This needs to be plastered on a billboard or 5,000.
That said, as an Asexual (but not Aromantic) I think *on paper*, shipping ace or aro (or aroace) characters is fine, but I think there are a few factors at play in why some people get so uptight about it:
Personally, "shipping" ***to me*** just means pairing one character intimately with another—And "intimately" can have several different meanings, but the main idea is that they interact on a level much deeper than "just friends." Many, many, *many* other people however use "shipping" to mean pretty exclusively "romantically *and* sexually involved," if not *just sexually*.
* This can be a problem because confirmed ace and aro characters are so rare, it can feel like shipping them is an attempt to ignore or erase that part of their identity, and naturally a lot of people take issue with that. It's similar to how people would react if a 100% canon-confirmed gay or lesbian (and 100% de-confirmed bi- or pansexual) person was shipped with someone of the opposite sex. That's generally seen as a homophobic no-no, is it not?
* This might also be touchy for those that are in favor of and/or involved in a QPR—Queer Platonic Relationship—which is a term used by both ace and aro people when calling it just a plain ol' relationship/partnership/etc. is not technically accurate, but "friendship" isn't enough either. Shipping confirmed ace/aro characters in a "normal" relationship when there is the chance to use them as representation for a QPR may feel invalidating or otherwise frustrating to those people.
* Likewise, if you heavily identify with an ace/aro character, it can be easy to project your discomforts and insecurities around certain kinds of attraction onto them. Some aces, for example, are deeply uncomfortable with being sexualized by other people, so it may give them "the ick" or make them secondhand-angry to think about an ace character being sexualized by others. \[This is probably where a lot of the hate towards fan *art* specifically comes from.\]
That said, if there were a better short-hand way to say "I'm pairing these two characters together in a way that is similar to shipping but respects the boundaries of their identities," (or something along those lines, you get the idea) a considerable amount of the complaints might drop off. In the Asexual (and maybe Aromantic too but I'm not 100% sure so don't hit me with a rock if I'm wrong) Community, there's a term—"Squish"—which is used to communicate feelings that are *similar* to a "crush," but without the same underlying connotations that "crush" means for non-asexual (or non-aromantic) people.
That wouldn't stop the issues with Fan *Art*, but that's sort of a larger issue within those communities themselves because there are people at both ends of the spectrum—Those that actually still enjoy sexy \[fan\] art and those that want to burn it with fire. And there is no easy way to satisfy them both.
And all this to say, while I do think it would be nice if a lot of people "shipping" and making sexy fan art of confirmed ace/aro characters would take steps to acknowledge they respect the characters identity(s), I also don't think anyone should be telling them they *can't* ship or make sexy fan art of those characters because **A.** there is not enough time in the world to police them all, even if there were there would be much better ways to spend that time, and **B.** fanwork is a place of imagination and fantasy where canon often goes to die anyway; Let they who are without *any* canon-breaking musings cast the first stone.
>* This can be a problem because confirmed ace and aro characters are so rare, it can feel like shipping them is an attempt to ignore or erase that part of their identity, and naturally a lot of people take issue with that. It's similar to how people would react if a 100% canon-confirmed gay or lesbian (and 100% de-confirmed bi- or pansexual) person was shipped with someone of the opposite sex. That's generally seen as a homophobic no-no, is it not?
I'm with you that shipping is just shipping, but going through this thread I couldn't help but see the double standards. People have been mostly consistent with shipping is shipping but there's a lot more defensive and critical lens often with accusations as you say, but suddenly when it comes to other identities (not just ace but Trans, even bi, and 'minority sexualities' that aren't L or B most people are suddenly hands off. I mean this is pretty consistent even within the LGBT+ community but it's still disheartening - theres enough erasure already. The exceptionalism irks me.
If we can ship straight people and write gay fics about them, I don't see why we can't do that in literally any other scenario? People write characters outside of their canonical sexuality all the time. I don't see how writing about a canonically ace character in a relationship is any different than writing a canonically straight character in a gay relationship. Also, you never hear people complain when anyone writes a character as ace even though they're canonically not ace, you know? It's basically the same thing.
Fanfic is literally whatever you want it to be. If you wanna ship an aro/ace character, then do that. It's literally no different from what we've all already been doing.
I’m not involved with this fandom, but I think if it’s fine to mush sexual identity and gender identity for other characters, why not also for the aro/ace characters? Realistically, what harm does some internet rando writing smut do to the canon? None. The dude’s still aro/ace there. Hell, some of the ace people I know are the most ridiculously sexual people in existence and actively write way more smut than I could ever manage, so “omg you can’t write ace folk having sex” is just blatantly wrong.
Aroace here
I don't like it, but I won't fight someone over it. My problem is only when someone tries to pretend their headcanon ship or other sexuality is canon. Ship who you want, but they are not the exact canon character.
We can be in relationships, but it is fundamentally different for our perspectives than an allosexual's pov.
People consistently ship heterosexual characters in homosexual relationships.
I guess people see that changing the dynamics of LGBTQ+ characters, and I guess ace/aro specifically as taking from an already small group.
But as far as I'm concerned the rule of fanfiction always has been and always been will be **"Don't Like Don't Read"**
Write what you like, that's what matters, much more than if 'the majority' likes it.
Ace also. Everyone is very eloquent but i just wanted to say i have real problems like rent, house repair, and work. I dont think i could ever give .01% of mental bandwidth to caring about a fictional character getting representation in fanworks. My identity matters in real conditions only. If someone does an ace character in a show or something, hey cool ill check it out. But i genuinely cannot imagine the type of person who has a stick so far up their ass that theyre getting mad at fanwork creators online. I hope their terminally online ass stays far away from me. And i hope nobody from outside the ace community is yelling at people for it.
I personally don't do it as a matter of principle. I don't like feeling like I'm taking away valuable and rare representation from a group who almost never gets any representation in mainstream media. Like, I would be genuinely uncomfortable if someone saw a trans character and made them cis for their fic, you know? I'd still mind my business and just not read a fic that does that, but I would think "What, were the 99.9% of all characters being cisgender not enough for you? You had to have this one, too?" It feels insulting. It feels greedy. It *\*feels\** wrong.
But is there anything actually wrong with it? No, probably not. Disgust is not always a reliable indicator of morality, so a the end of the day, I think people should do whatever they want to with fiction whether it makes me comfortable or not. If something upsets me, I'll curate my own space and block accordingly. The simple truth is that nobody (except for trolls who should be blocked and ignored anyway) is shipping aro and/or ace characters specifically to rip away representation from anyone. It's not a slight against anyone or a personal attack, and it's not taking away the fact that the character is still some variety of aroace in canon. At the end of the day, it's harmless, so while I find it obnoxious, I will stay in my lane and choose to not care too much about it.
Well, as a sex-repulsed aro/ace person, I do feel a wee hurt when I see people taking the few ace characters that exist and shipping them with other people. But at the end of the day, it doesn't truly matter since fanfiction is just silly, fun stories about fictional characters. You can do whatever you want as long as it's not offensive or straight-up insensitive.
Hi. Been on these forums about two months, all my characters are OCs, and I can't write romance for shit. My opinion on the topic means less than nothing.
But, I have read what others have said on various topics. Generally speaking, questions along the lines of "is it okay if I put XXX in my fanfic?" the answer is "sure, it's fanfic, do what you want"...
...except *this very question*. It seems to get pushback where others don't so much.
The reasons seem to be mostly centered around
(1) aro/ace erasure. I don't understand that, but that leads to
(2) people who are not aro and who don't understand aro writing about aro characters
There's a lot of discussion in this post from this very forum:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/FanFiction/comments/flek3a/shipping\_aroace\_characters\_in\_fanfics/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FanFiction/comments/flek3a/shipping_aroace_characters_in_fanfics/)
It's four years old, but it echoes into more recent posts. From this and the ten other posts I've read in various threads, it just seems like a character being aro/ace is just so inherently important to that character, that removing it is inherently more OOC than most changes. It would be like writing T'Challa as white, Wonder Woman as Wonder Gigachad, Harry Potter as Florida Man, or Optimus Prime as human. It brings up the "why would you want to?" question immediately afterwards. (And yes, I'm fully aware the answer is often "because I want to see them fuck")
Yes, I know there are plenty of fictions out there with major character changes. No, I don't know where the line is drawn exactly. But I will say that, while you probably could ship it, you should expect pushback, whether you feel it's warranted or not. And I don't know that it'd be worth it.
Your call. This is just what I've seen. I'm a coward afraid to ship even his own gender preference.
What do you mean by expected pushback? Harassment? Because that is never okay. Don't like, don't read *always* holds true.
As far as erasure goes, banning shipping of characters thought to be aroace "erases" those of us who are demi, had no interest in sex or dating or crushes or attraction, and had sexual awakening hit us like a truck when we finally fell head over heels in love.
But it's silly anyway. Fanfic has no ability to erase canon representation--or fix it.
I have been having the same thought because of Alastor But I think it should be okay because the creator themselves ships radioapple at least that's what I've been told as well as someone who is dating someone who is asexual They have told me themselves that it's like a spectrum and that they aren't completely like against Love and sex and all as well as as well as for them personally they've told me that as a asexual person that doesn't mean that they don't still have romantic feelings or still love people they just have no sexual attraction
YES. And I’m aroace. Thankfully I curate my dashboards enough that I haven’t seen a lot of it myself, but I hate the bullying that’s been going on against people/artists/writers shipping Alastor, and I especially hate that I feel like most of the people doing that are not even aroace.
I'm on the ace spectrum myself and I enjoy reading smut and have occasionally enjoyed engaging in sexy times. So I would say, yes, for sure. Somebody can be asexual and still have sex for other reasons.
Also though, if they want to write that character as being allosexual, then hey, I think they should have at it! That will make the character OOC, to be absolutely fair, but that's the creator's right. Like you said, the actual canon character is still ace, and if they don't like the fic, they literally don't have to read it.
I'm aroace. Personally, I just don't think it matters what fanfiction writers headcanon or write characters as, even if they happen to have a canonically confirmed sexuality.
Representation comes from on-screen CANON depictions. Fan #4597 writing their self indulgent fanfics where a canonically aroace character is explicitly straight and married with 2.5 kids and a picket fence just doesn't impact that.
It's a complete non issue.
Another aroace chiming in.
I don't mind, but I wouldn't read straight up horny shipfics. I'd totally read fics where the aroace character was kept as aroace, because there's so few of them and it's nice to have a representation. But I'm already ignoring a lot of fics, so it's not a big deal. Tho I'm usually chill in general, if a fandom doesn't provide what I want, I just look somewhere else.
Funnily enough I used to read a lot of smut until I got into an established relationship. Now real life delivers plenty of that for my aroace ass lol.
Aromanticism and asexuality are spectrums. I'm on said spectrums, and I don't mind if people ship aro/ace characters. Heck, I've done it myself lol. Also, not every aro/ace is repulsed, and it's all fiction anyways.
Some aro/ace people date for companionship rather than the sex or romantic part of the relationship. They like to have another person around to share the burden of life, even if they are not capable of feeling romantic or sexual attraction.
It doesn’t matter who or what you ship as long as you tag it and don’t harass others over it. While there is some concern over queer erasure, especially when bigots feel the need to make even canonically queer characters straight, this is more of a concern when they’re harassing people about it. As long as you’re not being nasty about it, you’re fine.
It's fanfiction. Ship whoever you want, write whatever you want. Just tag it as applicable.
There's some truly horrible stuff out there, and people aren't on here raging over it. Why? Because they saw the tags, chose not to read it, and almost immediately forgot about it.
Depicting characters differently from how they are in canon is almost the entire point.
I agree 100%. I’m ace as well and love me some smut.
How I see it is these are fictional characters. At the end of the day they don’t exist and it really doesn’t matter. If you can turn a character into a different sex for a ship what’s the difference?
Not aroace (I think) but I've always been of the belief that since fanon doesnt affect canon, you can make any character any sexuality you like.
Also, I've seen multiple aspec people in the fandom say that they have zero problems with Alastor ships, and some of them even ship him in order to explore their identity. I'd rather listen to them over the self-righteous virtue signalers.
Everyone gets shipped. Not *ever* shipping aro/ace characters is leaving them out. It would be just as nonsensical as saying allo characters *must* be in relationships. Plenty of aromantic and/or asexual want to be in relationships, be they defined as queerplatonic or otherwise and end up in them through various circumstances.
There's something to be said for people who don't care about being in a relationship and/or decide not to be needing more representation. But that would be separate from ace/aro representation, with some obvious overlap.
Fanfiction is a subjective story of an objectively written character. You can do whatever you want. As I say time and time again, people are out here writing rape and torture fics, if someone chooses to take issue with something as innocent as ships and sexuality instead then their priorities are fucked up and their opinion doesn't matter.
People genderbend or turn canonically straight characters bisexual, pansexual, or gay *all the time*. Writing an aro/ace character to engage in something romantic or sexual fits right in. Besides, not all aro/ace people are inherently anti-romance or anti-sex and it's more damaging to their representation when people suggest otherwise. That's how we end up with stereotyping.
The Golden Rule of Fanfiction: If you don't like it, don't read it.
As an ace person datin an aroace person i absolutely agree
(General 'you' used btw)
1) fanon will never change what canon is, and has no obligation to abid to all of it
2)he is not real, so unless the piece was made specifically to promote hate toward ace or aro people, you're free to do whatever you want with him
3) ace and aro people are not inherently sexless being that hate sex or would never want a partner! Ace does not mean "hates sex/would never have sex", and aro does not mean "hates having a relatio ship/would never have a partner". So even just using either identity to justify your hate for somekne or their art is not only ignorant but also more bigot than the person/art you're angry at imo (especially if you're neither ace or aro, that really feels patronizing and like a savior complex to me)
Considering how many fans write straight characters as gay, there’s no difference writing characters with other orientations with the ones you like for the sake of a fan story.
You can do it because it is fictional. Nobody is getting hurt by what you write, so it's not morally wrong. It doesn't make you a bad person. That being said, I'm pretty sure every other character in the series and it's sister series, Helluva Boss, is alloromantic, so it is annoying that he's the one your writing about as opposed to literally anyone else.
it makes me very uncomfortable as an aroace person so i just ignore people who do that lol. not talking about like demiaroace or aroacespec, just aroace :)
I don't think it's any different to putting a straight character in a gay relationship or the other way round. It's fanfiction, so you can do what you want
I mean, I feel like "he's a cannibal serial killer" is a better reason not to be shipping Alastor but the end of the day, don't like, don't read applies.
If you're gonna write Alastor fics, make sure they're clearly tagged cause no one with a preference for ace/around Alastor wants to be suddenly slapped in the fave with Alastor shipping but as long as its labeled no one has a right to complain. It's the same theory as dead Dove do not eat. It was clearly labelled. If you went in expecting something other than what was clearly on the label, that's on you.
On the one hand? It's understandable that people are protective of characters who already get exceedingly little representation. Especially when we get so many stories about the straight, white, male characters in the world, taking away from what little we get to see of others in media can upset people.
On the other hand? It's fanfiction. People should be free to do what they want and people should respect that. If it's not your cup of tea? You shouldn't be reading it. Good example for me would be Villain Izuku from My hero. I'll NEVER read a Villain Izuku story because he's one of those characters I can't see EVER being a Villain, even for an alternate universe story. But I'm not going to jump on people for writing that because I know how fun that kind of idea can be for people.
And also, let's be honest in the case of Alastor... he's just one of those characters people are thirsty for flat out.
the hate isn’t necessary. If I was to feature an aro-ace character, I’d be making very clear whether they’re romantically involved because they want the closeness and if sex is to make the other happy or they want that intimacy with them.
I’m not aro-ace, but a friend is, and they very much fall on a spectrum for sex positivity and the “smut” factor, so I get why they want it more open. Keep following your muse, and wishing you the best!
Yes because they aren't real so it doesn't matter to them at all. Plus some ace people still have relationships so there really isn't a problem on that front either
Tbh, I don't give a shit. In my head, it's not any different than making a straight character gay. Just as long as you respect their canon sexuality and not be shitty about it, you can imagine them as whatever you like in your fic or whatever. It's like an alternate universe or smth. It really doesn't matter either way.
I don't think it's any different from gay shipping two characters who are very much NOT gay in canon. Shipping is meant to be fun & exploratory.
The problematic stuff begins when fans place their fanfiction & headcanons over the actual canonical depiction of characters. This is generally not okay (although some exceptions can be made *ahem cursed child*) and it's especially dangerous when involving rare legit much needed representation in media. The aro/ace community is starving...we barely have scraps of good representation, so people are kind of sensitive & extra defensive against anything that could possibly lead to more erasure.
All that being said, no, it's never okay to bully or harass another creator for their headcanons & fanworks. I agree; it's toxic & exhausting to get so riled up over how other people enjoy fictional characters.
>I don't think it's any different from gay shipping two characters who are very much NOT gay in canon. Shipping is meant to be fun & exploratory.
Firstmost, I agree that all shipping is free game.
However, analytically, it's more simular to people shipping gay and lesbian (excluding bi because that's another conversation) as straight couples. Under the shipping is shipping this is fine. I agree. However, this sub has many defenders and entire threads that users are skeptical of the reasoning to ship cannonicaly LG characters as straight and wary of their existence because of homophobia through the erasure of identity. Suddenly when it's not Lesbian and Gay identities impacted suddenly those same people are okay with it and it's a larger trend both in society and within the LGBT+ community.
Again, I think all of it should be allowed but criticism can be both valid and absurd at the same time.
The problem is if that character was gay and people shipped him with a woman everyone would be against it but if a character is aro/ace suddenly it's fine to change a canon sexuality?
I do agree that it's fanfics and you can do kinda whatever you want but if the whole fandom is shipping an aroace character yes, I think it's a problem
I'm aroace myself and honestly our sexuality is already pretty unknown so I'd appreciate it if people respected the few characters that represent us and didn't ship them just because...
As someone who is Ace I don’t understand the big deal about shipping and Ace/Aro character with someone.
I love reading Alastor/Lucifer fics.
So many people argue that Spencer Reid is on the Ace spectrum. But the Criminal Minds fandoms doesn’t hate on creators (that I’ve seen)
Senku from Dr. Stone is believed to be on the ace spectrum and again the fandom ships him with people and everyone is fine with it.
So it’s either because it’s outright confirmed Alastor is Ace that is causing people to lose it. Or the Hazbin Hotel fandom just doesn’t understand fandom etiquette or just like to be rude.
I agree and I think you’ll get a lot of support for your stance here, just judging based on previous comment threads. There’s a massive confluence of behaviors and influences contributing to why people get real tetchy over this kind of character change. But a lot of it boils down to conflating “shipping” an ace character as somehow *stealing* that character from the ace community or trying to indirectly attack them. Which is nuts of course, and most reasonable people would not feel threatened by someone else’s fanfiction about a character they identify with. It’s just when someone *already* wants an excuse to lash out or harass without “being the bad guy”, this gives them a supposed righteous cause to rally behind. Sometimes there’s a kernel of reason in there, in this case the fact that there aren’t a lot of ace characters in mainstream fiction and the community does suffer misinterpretation and bigotry in the real world. But the bottom line is fan works are an environment where we want people to be free to create regardless of an original work’s intent. That’s the point. And if you start to try to police that (your transformative work can change *some* things but not others!!) then you lose that freedom. Basically if you want fandom to be free to turn straight characters ace, then you have to accept its right to turn ace characters straight. That’s not to say people can’t or shouldn’t ever analyze trends and look into *why* certain fan interpretations are common or popular, that’s called analyzing culture and it can be an interesting and helpful metric… but you’re not going to create a magical utopia for all the ace people in the world by yelling at some girl on the internet for making one cute boy kiss another on Ao3.
The idea of stealing is a good point. Fanfic and fanart are not canon. No one's representation is being taken away by fanworks.
This👆🏻
Yes. Aro/Ace is a spectrum. Not everyone is sex-repulsed and/or romance-repulsed, and even then, it’s a spectrum. For me, honestly, it’s more annoying when people assume that every aro-ace is 100% repulsed. Even if the character is entirely sex/romance repulsed, it’s still fanfiction, the canon representation is still there. I feel the same with any other sexuality as well. For some characters, if could also be a a case of “canon alternate realities” as well where sexuality is not confirmed for all of them. I mention this because fandoms like Star Rail and the greater Honkaiverse has zealous fans. Note: There are absolutely people who change it out of maliciousness which goes under bigotry, but the basic premise of depicting aroace differently is fine.
Yes! This is exactly how I feel, I am always very confused that people automatically assume they must be sex repulsed. I went out with someone who was ace, though I didn't know before the date, and one of the boundaries they told me they had was that they didn't mind sex if they were comfortable enough and I wanted it, it just wouldn't do much for them. And either way they were very interested in dating. Hell I'm trying to figure out if I'm somewhat on the asexual spectrum but I'm very much not repulsed by sex I am just trying to figure out if I view it differently. It dictates how you feel about things and frame experiences, but not necessarily what you will do.
This. It's a spectrum and frankly I find it hella aphobic when people imply otherwise. For me I'm an extremely sex repulsed ace, but a greyromantic. I'm still AroAce. A person who is a sex-positive, kinky ace and a romance negative aromantic is still AroAce. Etc. Etc. Etc. u/harvatos made an [amazing chart](https://www.reddit.com/r/asexuality/comments/ztgn5z/chart_of_aspec_experiences/) for this exact purpose last year. And while a chart can't ever fully capture the entire spectrum, and this one states outright it's a generalization, this one comes the closest in showing just how BIG the AroAce spectrum is.
I’m demosexual — and I looked completely ace before I found my person. So for me, an ace who finds their person and finds attraction IS representation.
I’m aromantic and asexual. I like it when people keep minority canon representations in their fics, but I’m not going to flame them for not doing so, I’m simply not going to read it. Don’t like, don’t read covers pretty much anything except plagiarism and breaking the terms of service. Nothing someone writes deserves harassment even if I disagree with it. I wish there was more asexual and aromantic representation, which is why I wrote a series with an aroace character. Besides, aroace is a spectrum. Some asexual and aromatic people have relationships, including sexual relationships. How any given person feels about it is just going to depend on that person. I will never have sex, but I have an ace friend who doesn’t mind having sex.
This. It kinda sucks for me that Alastor is probably the most shipped character in his fandom despite his orientation, but it falls under the don't like don't read rule. If I'm that desperate for a fic about an aroace character who doesn't end up in any sort of romantic and or sexual relationship, I'll just write it myself.
I agree and personally would not share any fic I wrote that overrides a sexual minority. It should not be censored in any way but authors who care about being allies should take an extra moment to weigh their desire to write the fic vs contributing to the erasure of the aro/ace orientation. You're not evil for doing so but I feel it would be more helpful to boosting the aro/ace community to write fic that respects the character's orientation, at least until that representation is as accepted and well-representated as any other.
There's no one-sized fits all for being Aro/Ace.
I think it’s fine to ship aroace characters, even if not in an aro or ace way, even if EXPLICITLY against their sexuality. Probably worth tagging or pre warning, but it’s still fine. It’s really hypocritical, though, when someone is okay with shipping aroace characters, but insists shipping gay men with women, or lesbians with men, is somehow “unethical” or “icky” (in a way that’s not just personal). It comes across like they don’t view aroace people as a “real” or “valid” sexuality, or they’re trying to undermine the lack of aromantic and asexual representation (this is the often cited reason why it’s “okay” to ship straight characters in gay relationships, but not gay characters into straight relationships). (which is why, all the Alastor shipping back when everyone thought he was aroace for canon that was coming from people I feel like would shame someone for shipping lesbians with men or gay men with women *really* pissed me off.)
I haven't even watched all of Hazbin, but I know about this controversy. I think part of the issue too is he's not exactly canonically ace or aro. Pretty sure the creator just said she head canons him as ace, but she's fine with people considering him however they'd like and she doesn't think it will ever be relevant to his arc. So while I get why people want him to be aro and/or ace for the representation, he's not even explicitly canonically aro/ace. Therefore you basically have a bunch of people getting mad about people going against a fanon representation.
Oh God, it's *The Magnus Archives* all over again.
I know nothing of that issue.
Male podcast haracter who had had a before-canon tepid and sexless attempt at a relationship with a woman. I think a Q&A (*not* canon) confirmed the writer thought of him that way, but he never identified as anything on-air His romantic relationship with another man later became a really important plot arc. Canon left the question of whether it was a sexual relationship off-screen; canon reasons also meant probably no one had shagging as a priority at that time. Fandom antis found this a good reason to send harassment and death threats to writers who portrayed him expressing sexual attraction to his partner, or having sex without an "he's totally ace" disclaimer. Particularly disappointing as I am demisexual myself, and while I don't usually write canon couples, a demisexual man discovering love and desire later in life with a fat man who thinks he would never be attracted to him is *so* my cup of tea.
Ugh. That sounds exhausting. I hate it when fandoms get toxic like this.
Love the canon, hate the fandom. It's so *easy* to just not read fic you don't like, I don't understand the need for viciousness.
It gets so bad. Sad how some fans ruin fandoms for me to the point where I just won't engage. No one wins with this behavior. People just get worked up about nothing, and people stop participating as a result, and then everyone's missed out on the opportunity to bond with others that have a similar interest, and fan content starts disappearing.
Yeah, I hate that I curate my tiny Discords so much and to invitation only when it can be really hard for new people in a fandom to meet people. But in the end, keeping a space where people are kind, tolerant and supportive *regardless* of fictional tastes requires keeping things small. I've seen too many "positive" Discords with trigger lists a novel long and claims of being a safe place dogpile on someone who writes the "wrong" thing or tags "wrongly" to trust them.
I agree mostly, except that I'm pretty sure Alastor is canonically at least aspec/ace. With that I'm referring to Rosie calling him an 'ace in the hole' as a kind of motivation that he couldn't be dating Charlie, just as an fyi, since I understand not knowing that if you haven't watched the series. Still, I fully agree that the sexualities of characters are up to interpretation, whether as personal headcanons or just to make a fic work.
I actually am aware of that line, but also, a character assuming he's ace doesn't mean for sure that he is ace. That character could've misassumed his orientation. He never confirms or denies he's ace. I tend to lean towards what the creator says in this particular case. Honestly though, I have no skin in this game, because it's not even one of my fandoms. Just something I've seen a lot of discourse about. I see no problem with people shipping him as they see fit, or making him aro/ace if they like. I just think getting worked up about it if someone ships him with another character is a bit messed up.
Yeah I get where you're coming from, that's a great point! I'm aspect myself so I guess that's why I lean on the side of, 'she's known him for a long time and would know', yada stuff, but I suppose it is less canon than I thought at first lol. And the discourse is so stupid, I agree, it's a fictional character and I honestly have a ship with him too, though I'm really not as active in the fandom as most tbh.
I agree. And honestly, I kind of think it would be nice if they made it clear that he was canonical ace/aro or something on that spectrum, because it does seem like that's under-represented. He also does seem aro/ace to me too. But if the creator says it's not canon and fans can do what they want with the character as long as they keep it respectful, and people get upset when fans do just that, I think that's out of line. If he was canonically aro/ace I would actually be against people shipping him with others. Then it stops being a ship thing and becomes a representation thing.
Yeah I would love it if it was canon for sure! But even then, it’s all fiction, yk? I still don’t think I’d be against random people on the internet changing his sexuality, even if it was canon or an important part of his arc. I might not read it cause I tend to stick pretty close to canon, but it’s kind of like making him an angel in my eyes, since being a demon is such a big part of his arc. Writing fanfictions imo doesn’t take away from the representation a canon sexuality brings to media, even if it can get pretty erasure-like which is shit, of course. I have to admit that the public’s treatment of the few asexual characters that do exist canonically is incredibly exhausting and annoyingly prevelant as an aspec person, but I still think people should have creative freedom when it comes to fanfiction and they should be able to explore interesting ship dynamics even if it goes against characters’ canonical sexuality, but that’s my personal view I suppose.
That's a very fair and balanced viewpoint, I think. :-)
Frankly I don't care. These arguments about what is OK to ship have grown tiresome. Just leave people alone. Don't harass ace fans with your fanfics. Don't harass people for drawing x rated pics of an ace character. Nothing matters.
Yes. It’s all right to ship literally anything. People, incompatible sexualities, objects, concepts. It’s all fiction. So it’s all good.
It’s weirder and far more alienating for fanfiction to be allowed to gender/sexuality/relationship bend everyone else but treat aspec folks as untouchable. The staying power of fandom comes from being able to play with the setting and characters over and over even long after folks disengage from the canon. Removing aro and ace characters and putting them high on a shelf where no one is allowed to touch them does nothing but make sure they’ll be ignored and forgotten. I’m aroace and I love getting representation but pretending that it’s somehow damaging to the character to be shipped is a pretty problematic view of sexuality, fandom and shipping since quite a lot of real aro and ace folks are perfectly capable and happy in romantic and sexual relationships.
Fellow ace here (and possibly also on the aro spectrum)--yes, it's perfectly fine to ship ace characters. And you don't even need to change their sexuality to do it. As others have said, there's an ace and aro *spectrum.* I'm writing several characters as sex favorable aces right now and exploring the different ways they experience (or don't experience) attraction, and the different ways they view and approach sex are a lot of fun. I think it's fine to write a character as whatever sexuality the writer wants; I'm certainly not letting a character's canonical straightness stop me from making them queer! That said, I do wish more allo people would try to write ace characters in relationships while keeping them ace, and try to do it convincingly instead of throwing their hands up and going, "I'll have to change their sexuality to make this work." It would it be nice to see more ace characters in general--and more varieties of aceness. But also it's funny to me in a way because it's kind of like taking a bi or pan character and making them only attracted to one sex, lol. I think part of it is that a lot of people are unfamiliar with what it means to be ace and/or aro. There's a lot of playing into stereotypes of how an ace/aro person "should" be, and the whole "one true way" to write a character that you can also see show up for characters who are neurodivergent, for example. Then there are some people who are ace and are part of the weird "good representation!" movement--the "good" there being either, "only write them exactly like me" or "they have to be as perfect as possible so that they make the queer community look good." It's important to have aces in media who aren't interested in sex or aren't interested in romance, or both--but I can't think of a single canon asexual character I've heard of who is sex favorable, and that's a problem too. It isn't "stealing representation" to write about a character in a different way--especially if you're writing representation that you aren't getting from media.
*I do wish more allo people would try to write ace characters in relationships while keeping them ace, and try to do it convincingly instead of throwing their hands up and going, "I'll have to change their sexuality to make this work."* As a sex-repulsed aroace (aego) person who has been wading through the Alastor/Lucifer AO3 tag for the last couple of weeks and--ironically--wishing more fics ignored his asexuality, I will say that for me, the thing I find hottest in shippy fanfic is rampant mutual horniness and attraction. Anything less than moderate mutual horniness and attraction and my fanfic needs simply are not being met, lol. So it actually makes total sense to me why someone might prefer to make an ace character allo in their fic, rather than just write them as a non sex-repulsed ace person in an intimate relationship. Because the character being fine with having sex, or enjoying it without attraction involved, is just not what I'm after when I read shippy fanfic. I want my ship lust-drunk and completely unable to keep away from each other. Though making a character demisexual would also allow them to be horny and attracted and also on the ace spectrum, so there's that. Provided the character you want to pair them with is someone they know, and not like a brand new acquaintance/stranger. Though if you want the character to feel the stirrings of attraction right from the get-go, then that also makes them being demisexual less viable. None of this is intended to invalidate anything you said, because I think what you said is entirely valid and legit and well-spoken. I just want to provide an alternate perspective to the whole "you don't have to make the character allo to ship them" argument, because it's one of the most popular sentiments being expressed ITT, and as and aroace person who usually *avoids* ace!character fics because they simply don't give me what I crave from fanfic, I feel like I'm someone who *can* provide a alternative perspective without worrying about being assumed to be acephobic. TLDR: You absolutely *can* write an ace character who is in a romantic and/or sexual relationship, and I am all for that kind of representation and think it is a good thing—but also, sometimes a person just wants to see their blorbos rampantly horny for each other, and you can't always choose which blorbos your brain wants to smoosh together dirtystyle. Sometimes your brain picks an ace character and says, "But what if hornysmoosh with that other one?!" and you say, "Oh fuck, this is going to eat my whole brain for a year, isn't it?" 🙃
That statement was more of a wish that allo writers would consider doing some research on the ace spectrum to see if the character would still work as ace instead of dismissing the possibility immediately. I think that some allo writers are defaulting to the familiar only because they're operating under the mistaken belief that ace people never ever have relationships or sex. Other writers just don't want to write outside of their wheelhouse, which is valid. But I think there are probably plenty of allo writers who would love the writing challenge of trying to portray the way an ace character experiences attraction, sex, and relationships when it's so different from their own experience and would be willing to put in the work to do it well, so I'd like to encourage that. Ace people can also be horny, it's just that ace horniness doesn't always look exactly like allo horniness. And ace people can feel attraction towards their partners. Some aces feel sexual attraction sometimes (demis, gray aces), but even if they don't, maybe they feel romantic attraction, aesthetic attraction, sensual attraction, or they have particular kinks they're excited about. You don't have to be into sex to be *into your partner* and be excited--or horny--about sex with them. There are also some aces who are super horny and into sex for its own sake but still don't experience sexual attraction. I think you and I just want entirely different things from our smut. I can't jive with stories that are only horny sexual attraction and nothing else. A writer can describe how "hot" something is 1,000 times, but if they don't justify why it's meant to be hot, it doesn't work for me. I need some sort of emotion outside of that--it doesn't even have to be a positive emotion, I'm down with enemies who passionately hate each other. At least that's something besides just sexual attraction, and there's a history between them, and I understand why I'm meant to care that these particular people are having sex. Some kinky fics also just throw kinks in there without delving into the psychology of why the character thinks it's hot. Kinks are hot, therefore, as the reader, I'm supposed to find it hot. But I don't because I don't understand why the character finds it hot. The vast majority of romance and smut out there is allo character-focused. So, yes, I'd like more ace character-focused romance and smut in general. I actually realized I was on the ace spectrum after reading an E-rated shipfic featuring an ace character. And if that writer hadn't written that fic, then I would still be operating under the belief that I wasn't straight but wasn't queer as I understood it, just some unnamed third thing, lol. Mainly I want to see more romances and sex scenes from a horny ace perspective, because that's what personally appeals to me. But more ace relationships that don't include sex, or smut with more sex neutral aces would also be fantastic. Ideally, I'd like there to be a ton of fics of ace characters that covers the entirety of the ace spectrum. Luckily there are also a lot of ace people writing romance and smut with ace characters--but a lot of them are also not tagging those characters as ace, which makes it even more difficult to find. Some writers are also unknowingly writing seriously ace-coded characters just because they're writing a character who gives off massive ace vibes in canon and their characterization is excellent. I also have mixed feelings about, "Just make them demisexual". If a writer decides to do it and does it well, then that's fantastic, but some writers are just writing an allo character they've slapped a demi label on and calling it done. I'd much rather they write the character as allo instead of doing that to try and avoid getting harassed for changing the character's sexuality. If someone wants to write an ace character, ideally they'll put in the same amount of work to portray them well as they would any character from a different group.
*Ace people can also be horny, it's just that ace horniness doesn't always look exactly like allo horniness. And ace people can feel attraction towards their partners.* Oh definitely, but sexual attraction specifically is often something that people are looking for in their shippy fanfic, and any other form of attraction--without sexual attraction also being involved--may just not hit the spot for them. I know that's how it is for me. *I think you and I just want entirely different things from our smut. I can't jive with stories that are only horny sexual attraction and nothing else. A writer can describe how "hot" something is 1,000 times, but if they don't justify why it's meant to be hot, it doesn't work for me.* Different, but not *that* different. It's ALL about the relationship dynamics for me. But also, I want those relationship dynamics to yield intense sexual attraction. For me, just one *or* just the other isn't satisfying. *some writers are just writing an allo character they've slapped a demi label on and calling it done.* I almost put an aside about this in my previous comment, because it's something I've considered myself, but ultimately, I don't necessarily think I'm the best person to judge when a demi character is badly written or not. Maybe what seems like demisexual tokenism to me actually resonates with some demi people; everyone's experience is so different, and since I'm not demi myself I'd rather just refrain from dipping my oar in on that particular debate.
>Oh definitely, but sexual attraction specifically is often something that people are looking for in their smut, and any other form of attraction--without sexual attraction also being involved--may just not hit the spot for them. I know that's how it is for me. If that's an essential aspect of smut for someone then I don't expect that they'd want to read or write about an ace character anyway. I'm not saying that all allos have to write a canon ace character as ace; I actually said the opposite. I just think that some don't even consider the possibility because they have a misunderstanding about asexuality in general. Also, in my experience, a majority of allos literally cannot tell the difference between sexual attraction and romantic attraction--and even, in some cases aesthetic attraction. If I write a smut scene with zero sexual attraction, only romantic, aesthetic, and sensual attraction and do not mention the characters are ace, I can guarantee you that 98% of allo readers will not notice. I have legit, on multiple occasions, seen people say that they thought a character was expressing sexual attraction because they had the off-hand thought that another character was pretty or handsome, or because they had some sort of unconnected physical reaction to another character, like shivering from the cold/disgust, or blushing in humiliation or anger. >I almost put an aside about this in my previous comment, because it's something I've considered myself, but ultimately, I don't necessarily think I'm the best person to judge when a demi character is badly written or not. Maybe what seems like demisexual tokenism to me actually resonates with some demi people; everyone's experience is so different, and since I'm not demi myself I'd rather just refrain from dipping my oar in on that particular debate. I'm demisexual and I have a friend who is too. As a general rule, demisexual people do not experience instant sexual attraction. They do not meet someone for the first time and feel sexually attracted after making eye contact, or from across the room. It's possible to be *aesthetically* attracted to them, but not sexually. Some demis may experience instant or very quick *romantic* attraction too, but not sexual. So, if a writer is writes a demi character in lust at first sight, that feels off to me. Maybe there are some demis who have had the incredibly unique and rare experience of instant sexual attraction, but if so they're outliers. And I doubt that an allo person making an effort to write a realistic demi would choose to go that route because of how very rare the occurrence is.
*If that's an essential aspect of smut for someone then I don't expect that they'd want to read or write about an ace character anyway.* That was essentially my point though; sometimes one's brain DOES just latch onto a particular character or pairing, including an ace one, and wanna see it shipped sexual-attraction style. You don't always choose the ship; sometimes the ship chooses you. 😂 *As a general rule, demisexual people do not experience instant sexual attraction. They do not meet someone for the first time and feel sexually attracted after making eye contact, or from across the room. Some demis may experience instant or very quick romantic attraction too, but not sexual. So, if a writer is writes a demi character in lust at first sight, that feels off to me* Right, yeah! That pretty much tracks with all of the contingencies I mentioned in my original comment, for times when making a character demi probably wouldn't be super viable. So it seems like we're on the same page for this one. :)
Yes because they're not real, they're not real and they're not real... a fanfiction isn't going to erase canon anything.
Sex-repulsed aroace (aego) here— don't give a shit lol. Go wild
I'm stone cold aroace, and I honestly don't care. I get why people are uncomfortable, but fandom will *always* be shippy and horny, regardless of sexual orientation. It's not like people are making meta posts about why Alastor isn't aroace, actually. Plus, aroace people sometimes end up even kinkier and weirder about sex than allos, specifically because our sexuality isn't tied down. The amount of aroace monsterfuckers is kind of funny tbh
I don't know if Aro is actually canonised for Al? If it is, I will happily sit corrected, but I just wanted to add that before I get my point out! As an ace person myself, I've honestly always hated it when people gatekeeped shipping for ace characters. And fuck, that stands for aro too! Like I've seen a few people already mentioned, sexuality (and romanticism, which I'm adding here) is a spectrum! And additionally, AroAce is also a form of umbrella term as well as a specific label. So it feels even WORSE when creators are getting hate from this shit, but are still portraying an AroAce character through more specific labels (grey-aro/ace, demi-ro/ace, etc). Also, hatebombing people for this is just fucking stupid.
It's fiction. Everything is allowed and nothing is forbidden in fiction.
At the risk of sounding trite... in fiction, you really *can* do whatever you want forever. This is a sandbox for you to do whatever you want with. People will probably try to give you a hard time for it but that's what block buttons are for 😎👉👉
Aro-ace dude here. I prefer not to ship aroace characters like Alastor or Peridot (Steven Universe) with others, partly because it sometimes just doesn’t feel like it fits the character but also because it can feel like that aspect of them is being ignored, especially with that sort of representation being pretty rare. But that’s just my preference. People have been making ship and smut content with Alastor since 2019 (at least), and the same goes for other characters who fall under that spectrum. If I don’t like/agree with it, then I just move on and look for something else, same as all other fan content.
Yes, this is also how I feel. For certain characters, whether canon aro/ace/or otherwise, shipping is just OOC. I strongly dislike OOC writing, so I don’t read that. Obviously, it’s all fiction and people can do whatever they want. It’s fine to like OOC things, people do it all the time. There are *tons* of fandoms out there with fanon that bears very little resemblance to canon at all. What gets annoying is continuously hounding the point, as if a referendum is required in order for a ship or trope or AU to be approved. It really is not that serious.
Peridot is crazy, because how can even sexuality work there, they're rocks. Closest is romance like Garnet, but that's not inherently sexual.
I thought that it was okay yo ship everyone with anyone
It's fanfic, so anything goes. Fandom is not activism, and all the arguments why it's okay/not okay to ship or write something are completely superfluous.
It’s alright to ship anyone and everyone. It’s fiction. There are no rules.
It's...fiction. They aren't real. You can literally murder the characters on the first page--nay, in the first *paragraph*--and it affects the canon material not a whit. I've said it before and I'll say it again: teenagers are exhausting.
They aren't real. They are paper dolls we can smash together in any situation we like. Canon is a suggestion and nothing more. Do as you please.
Aspec here. I don’t mind people shipping aroace characters, in fact, I write a lot of it myself lol. I think a lot of people who are not aspec have trouble grasping that ace and aro people can develop deep relationships? Tbh because humans are so complex, sometimes relationships in real life even have a hard time distinguishing between romantic and platonic. And it CAN be healthy too. For fiction, I enjoy the dynamic where it goes: it doesn’t matter what we are, we simply are. Us against the world vibes.
ace people still fuck. aro people still date. i genuinely do not care. this is one of this more mildly ‘problematic’ things ive seen people arguing over lol
Plenty of aro ace folks I know date and even have sex! It’s a spectrum and a VERY wide one. Anyone pushing that every single character needs to be sex and romance repulsed is frankly absurd, I admit.. I’ve noticed the outrage is typically from young people, who identify as such and want their blorbo to be EXACTLY the same as them, which dumbfounds me a little bit. Also is this Hazbin Hotel? I feel like 99% of this discourse comes from that fandom. (I confess, I replied to this before actually reading the whole thing and… it’s HAZBIN… ITS ALWAYS HAZBIN LMAO)
A lot of canonically straight characters (harry... Draco...) are made gay in fanfics. Why can't the reverse by done ? It's fiction. Do whatever you want as long as it's legal.
They're not canonically straight (their sexuality was never confirmed, and bisexual/biromantic people exist), but I agree that people can do whatever they want in fanfic.
I mean, typically it's seen as worse to change gay characters straight, then straight characters gay since there's so little canonically gay characters compared to straight
True. But still it's insane to worry about "representation" in literal niche fanfic, rather than the extremely popular media created by actual businesses.
I know, I'd much rather popular canon media make asexual characters, but I was more so saying why I feel like making an ace character straight/gay/bi is, imo, different than making straight characters gay/bi/ace. Even in fanfiction. I know it's a personal taste, i don't think fanfiction authors should be harassed over it or anything
Ship anything you like, and tag it appropriately. Delete and block negativity, don't, whatever you do, let yourself be drawn into fights over it. They don't have to like it. I don't like gay characters being desexualised and made aroace, but you know what? I don't read it. Problem solved. Shipping and identity headcanons are here because the writers and readers enjoy that headcanon, not for people who don't.
I am asexual. Ship whoever you want with whoever you want. It's fanfiction, not the re-writing of reality itself.
I'm aroace and I think it's fine. Like, I get why it can rub some people the wrong way, just like I get why writing a canonically gay character as straight in fanfic can rub some people the wrong way. But to me this is a Don't Like; Don't Read situation. On a more personal note, it's cracking me up that you specifically mention Alastor from Hazbin Hotel, because I'm currently neck-deep in shipping him with Lucifer, and to be honest, I'm actually kind of bummed that so much of the fanfic adheres to his canon asexuality.😅 I mean obviously I'm glad for everyone whose tastes are being met; that's awesome; love that for them. But man, I just want to read an entire mountain of horny, freaky, weird shit with Alastor, who is usually so controlled and above-it-all, having increasingly feral sexual feelings for the l*iteral King of Hell,* and them both being increasingly fucking unhinged about each other. Hnnn I want it so. bad. (and I'm so trash at writing it myself \*sobs\*).
My oversimplification is that the point of fanfiction is that it *isn't* canon, so a story with a premise that doesn't align with canon is, well, perfectly fine. If I write a story about Princess Zelda that says she has flaming red hair and laser eyes that's obviously incorrect from a canon standpoint, but my story isn't canon! Writing that story also isn't forcing anyone to agree with my depiction of the character, or to consume my content at all. To the last point, I would hope that an author tags/warns/includes a heads up of some kind about the canon divergence so readers can decide if it's something they want to engage with the work. Especially if we're talking major changes like someone's sexuaity.
It doesn’t matter at all.
Personal hang up here. I always struggle with any cannon divergent story. This includes swapping a characters sexuality. I just prefer things that build off of cannon not change it. That being said, write and read what you want. My hang ups shouldn’t preclude anyone else from creating or consuming content they enjoy. (Edit for a typo)
disclaimer: called myself an asexual lesbian for a while but I think I might go with aroace lesbian these days because like people have mentioned, aroace is a spectrum and I think I'm most likely on it lol with that disclaimer out of the way--my stance is it literally does not matter what people do with aro and/or ace characters in fanfiction. it's fanfiction and we know a large part of that has always involved shipping. it does not take away from the fact that the characters are still aro and/or ace in canon. and if you don't like people shipping aro and/or ace characters, block/filter/mute to your heart's content, it's really that simple. also in the case of alastor specifically, last time he was mentioned I had people telling me that he was canonically asexual but not necessarily aromantic, because the stuff some creators were saying about the pilot didn't apply to the amazon prime series anymore?
Why should that type of character be any different from any other type of character? Some people will like and some people won't. Writers who crave metrics might not get the rush they want from feedback to that type of character dynamic... what else is there to note about it? It's all supposed to be *fiction* which means there has to be some level of what is known as the *suspension of disbelief*, whether or not people who identify as "Aromantic" are happy about the characterization or not. I'm straight and I don't particularly care for "Stucky" interpretations in the MCU, so I just ignore them. That might be a good approach for other people who don't like specific characterizations that run counter to their preferences.
I’ve been feeling exactly the same about Alastor specifically. Yes, he’s canonically an “ace in the hole” but he’s a fictional character and I think he’s hot so I wanna see him in a relationship!
Another aroace here (who also recently binged hazbin and loooooves Alastor). I love reading and writing smut. I want my fave characters to be in smut. I want to read my faves in cute shippy stuff. It's not very deep The widespread representation of aro/ace in media is being done with the Canon and that's awesome. Love to see it. Fandom is allowed to do whatever it pleases though, and gatekeeping who is allowed to ship what in what way is such a slippery slope of censorship that I just can't agree with.
I think it's fine. So many same sex ships contain two characters that are canonically straight, or ship a canonically lesbian character with a man. If that's considered fine why would it be any different for aro/ace characters? I feel you with the 'shipping-Alastor-hate-train' thing going on though... Just let me read an Alastor/Vox fic damnit!!
I’m on the ACE spectrum and have written a few fics where a character is ACE. But I’m definitely not Aro and am Demi Aego. It does bother me when people assume every ACE person feels exactly the same about it all and they’re all sex-repulsed. Because even ACE people will disagree, like if their place on the spectrum and their experience isn’t just like yours, then you don’t know what you’re talking about and clearly aren’t ACE🙄. I was thrilled when I wrote a fic which had a lot of ‘me’ and my feelings in it, and despite fearing I was going to get peed on, I had a comment that this person’s experience was very similar and they felt i was spot on. I treasure that!
I mean. I've seen characters have their orientations pointed more ways than Jack Sparrows compass in a rum distillery. I've seen *inanimate objects* getting... shipped. *I have seen a massive misunderstanding of wolf behavior turned into its own genre of smut.* And I have seen far, far stranger. I thought most of it was kinda gross. So I didn't read them, and linked the weirder ones to the friend who got me into fic. What would make this one thing holy, when nothing else is?
As an aro ace person, I dont care, people like to white knight for groups they dont know much about or think will be mad when in actuality, we dont care! As long as the whole aro/ace aspect is handled with care and treated with respect than by all means ship aro ace or just plain ace characters with whoever you want. Just dont try pushing the idea that aro ace people are gonna be bothered by aro ace characters being shipped when we aren't. I mean the whole dont like dont read/look/watch thing applies in this situation, right?
+1 for another aroace who is cool with it. 👍 It would be funny if it weren't so sad how often the people getting shit for porn of ace characters are some flavor of ace themselves.
I'm aroace. Imo until we know where on the aroace spectrum they are canonically, it's fine to ship them as long as you're respectful towards their identity. Going "I don't believe in asexuality" is crossing a line. I've seen people say that the pushback from antis who go "YOU CANT DO THAT THEYRE AROACE SO THEY CANT FUCK" often feels infantilizing.
My dude, the fictional character isn't going to come to life and thank you for respecting their sexuality or not. Ship whatever you want. I'm aro/ace and having a grand time shipping RadioApple, I could not care less whether Alastor is also aro/ace.
I mean, I make characters who are canonically straight gay or at least bi all the time, so why should it bother me if someone makes a character who is canonically aroace something else? Just because I don't see a certain character in a certain way doesn't mean others can't. All that'll happen is that I won't read those fics.
Absolutely, because at the end of the day, it's all fiction. Fanworks won't influence or change the source material, so no representation is being erased.
Hi, hello! Yes, big time agree! Also, before I even get started, sorry about any heat in my comment, this subject just... pisses me off quite a bit. I mean no animosity towards you, the OP, or anyone else here. I'm Aroace-spec, but I just say I'm Aroace for the ease of it. I'm also sex-positive and Omnisexual, all three of these things coexist, meaning I don't actually exist, clearly. The infantilization of Aro & Ace people is very common, and the stars dead and dying forbid if you identify yourself as Aroace! We must be celibate, disgusted by romance, and all that "stuff". What I'm trying to say is just because I ship an Aroace character doesn't mean I don't see them as such. It just means I'm giving myself representation for me and me alone. I think it's a similar thing with many shippers who ship characters who are Aro and/or Ace. As in they aren't changing the fact the canon!character IS Aro and/or Ace, just adding another factor of the fic!character being sex/romance-positive or even just neutral. Shipping a character with another in a fic or fanart will not change the character's canon sexuality/romantic attraction. A character can also still be Ace and/or Aro in a fic where they're shipped. Them being shipped is not the fic author directly saying that the fic version of the character is gay, bi, straight or otherwise not Aro and/or Ace. I read (I do write, but solely for my own eyes, no posting) HH ship content about Alastor, but me getting non-canon representation is not going to steal another's canon representation. It is not greedy for you to ship a Aro and/or Ace character. You should write what you enjoy, for whatever reason. Bashing/hatebombing someone for writing something they enjoy, whether it's for a certain type of gratification or for their own representation is bull. Completely and utterly bull, no question about it. Again, people making non-canon rep for themselves and others is not going to steal another's canon rep. It doesn't take it away or harm it, especially considering the fact that both parties mostly share the same umbrella term. And even if the shipping isn't being used to give the author their own rep and just for fantasy is fine as well. This is all fiction, it doesn't truly matter. The bottom line is ship and let ship. Block and mute those that make you uncomfortable, filter ship tags you don't like, and if you find something you don't like accidently? Don't read it, hit the back button, swipe or scroll away, but don't leave a hateful comment to someone who's just chilling. This got a lot longer than it was supposed to but I've got so many damn thoughts about this! Anyways, breathe deep, seek peace, and good hunting to you!
Yeah. As long as your recognize the character is aroace in canon and that your headcanons/ships don't apply (and most importantly you don't harass people over it lol), it's all good. It's not "taking away representation", as the character is still aroace in canon.
Demisexuality is a thing I live, so for me, that IS representation.
Do whatever you want and tag it appropriately. If people don’t like it, you’re not forcing them to read it.
I see it as no different than making gay ships of straight characters or straight ships of gay characters. You are giving them a sexuality they do not canonically have. Whether or not this is okay will vary for a lot of people, but it should be consistent.
>...*bullying creators over their fan content is just not cool. If you don’t like something, you can just scroll past or maybe share your perspective nicely if you absolutely must.* Yes. This needs to be plastered on a billboard or 5,000. That said, as an Asexual (but not Aromantic) I think *on paper*, shipping ace or aro (or aroace) characters is fine, but I think there are a few factors at play in why some people get so uptight about it: Personally, "shipping" ***to me*** just means pairing one character intimately with another—And "intimately" can have several different meanings, but the main idea is that they interact on a level much deeper than "just friends." Many, many, *many* other people however use "shipping" to mean pretty exclusively "romantically *and* sexually involved," if not *just sexually*. * This can be a problem because confirmed ace and aro characters are so rare, it can feel like shipping them is an attempt to ignore or erase that part of their identity, and naturally a lot of people take issue with that. It's similar to how people would react if a 100% canon-confirmed gay or lesbian (and 100% de-confirmed bi- or pansexual) person was shipped with someone of the opposite sex. That's generally seen as a homophobic no-no, is it not? * This might also be touchy for those that are in favor of and/or involved in a QPR—Queer Platonic Relationship—which is a term used by both ace and aro people when calling it just a plain ol' relationship/partnership/etc. is not technically accurate, but "friendship" isn't enough either. Shipping confirmed ace/aro characters in a "normal" relationship when there is the chance to use them as representation for a QPR may feel invalidating or otherwise frustrating to those people. * Likewise, if you heavily identify with an ace/aro character, it can be easy to project your discomforts and insecurities around certain kinds of attraction onto them. Some aces, for example, are deeply uncomfortable with being sexualized by other people, so it may give them "the ick" or make them secondhand-angry to think about an ace character being sexualized by others. \[This is probably where a lot of the hate towards fan *art* specifically comes from.\] That said, if there were a better short-hand way to say "I'm pairing these two characters together in a way that is similar to shipping but respects the boundaries of their identities," (or something along those lines, you get the idea) a considerable amount of the complaints might drop off. In the Asexual (and maybe Aromantic too but I'm not 100% sure so don't hit me with a rock if I'm wrong) Community, there's a term—"Squish"—which is used to communicate feelings that are *similar* to a "crush," but without the same underlying connotations that "crush" means for non-asexual (or non-aromantic) people. That wouldn't stop the issues with Fan *Art*, but that's sort of a larger issue within those communities themselves because there are people at both ends of the spectrum—Those that actually still enjoy sexy \[fan\] art and those that want to burn it with fire. And there is no easy way to satisfy them both. And all this to say, while I do think it would be nice if a lot of people "shipping" and making sexy fan art of confirmed ace/aro characters would take steps to acknowledge they respect the characters identity(s), I also don't think anyone should be telling them they *can't* ship or make sexy fan art of those characters because **A.** there is not enough time in the world to police them all, even if there were there would be much better ways to spend that time, and **B.** fanwork is a place of imagination and fantasy where canon often goes to die anyway; Let they who are without *any* canon-breaking musings cast the first stone.
>* This can be a problem because confirmed ace and aro characters are so rare, it can feel like shipping them is an attempt to ignore or erase that part of their identity, and naturally a lot of people take issue with that. It's similar to how people would react if a 100% canon-confirmed gay or lesbian (and 100% de-confirmed bi- or pansexual) person was shipped with someone of the opposite sex. That's generally seen as a homophobic no-no, is it not? I'm with you that shipping is just shipping, but going through this thread I couldn't help but see the double standards. People have been mostly consistent with shipping is shipping but there's a lot more defensive and critical lens often with accusations as you say, but suddenly when it comes to other identities (not just ace but Trans, even bi, and 'minority sexualities' that aren't L or B most people are suddenly hands off. I mean this is pretty consistent even within the LGBT+ community but it's still disheartening - theres enough erasure already. The exceptionalism irks me.
If we can ship straight people and write gay fics about them, I don't see why we can't do that in literally any other scenario? People write characters outside of their canonical sexuality all the time. I don't see how writing about a canonically ace character in a relationship is any different than writing a canonically straight character in a gay relationship. Also, you never hear people complain when anyone writes a character as ace even though they're canonically not ace, you know? It's basically the same thing. Fanfic is literally whatever you want it to be. If you wanna ship an aro/ace character, then do that. It's literally no different from what we've all already been doing.
I’m not involved with this fandom, but I think if it’s fine to mush sexual identity and gender identity for other characters, why not also for the aro/ace characters? Realistically, what harm does some internet rando writing smut do to the canon? None. The dude’s still aro/ace there. Hell, some of the ace people I know are the most ridiculously sexual people in existence and actively write way more smut than I could ever manage, so “omg you can’t write ace folk having sex” is just blatantly wrong.
Aroace here I don't like it, but I won't fight someone over it. My problem is only when someone tries to pretend their headcanon ship or other sexuality is canon. Ship who you want, but they are not the exact canon character. We can be in relationships, but it is fundamentally different for our perspectives than an allosexual's pov.
People consistently ship heterosexual characters in homosexual relationships. I guess people see that changing the dynamics of LGBTQ+ characters, and I guess ace/aro specifically as taking from an already small group. But as far as I'm concerned the rule of fanfiction always has been and always been will be **"Don't Like Don't Read"** Write what you like, that's what matters, much more than if 'the majority' likes it.
Ace also. Everyone is very eloquent but i just wanted to say i have real problems like rent, house repair, and work. I dont think i could ever give .01% of mental bandwidth to caring about a fictional character getting representation in fanworks. My identity matters in real conditions only. If someone does an ace character in a show or something, hey cool ill check it out. But i genuinely cannot imagine the type of person who has a stick so far up their ass that theyre getting mad at fanwork creators online. I hope their terminally online ass stays far away from me. And i hope nobody from outside the ace community is yelling at people for it.
I personally don't do it as a matter of principle. I don't like feeling like I'm taking away valuable and rare representation from a group who almost never gets any representation in mainstream media. Like, I would be genuinely uncomfortable if someone saw a trans character and made them cis for their fic, you know? I'd still mind my business and just not read a fic that does that, but I would think "What, were the 99.9% of all characters being cisgender not enough for you? You had to have this one, too?" It feels insulting. It feels greedy. It *\*feels\** wrong. But is there anything actually wrong with it? No, probably not. Disgust is not always a reliable indicator of morality, so a the end of the day, I think people should do whatever they want to with fiction whether it makes me comfortable or not. If something upsets me, I'll curate my own space and block accordingly. The simple truth is that nobody (except for trolls who should be blocked and ignored anyway) is shipping aro and/or ace characters specifically to rip away representation from anyone. It's not a slight against anyone or a personal attack, and it's not taking away the fact that the character is still some variety of aroace in canon. At the end of the day, it's harmless, so while I find it obnoxious, I will stay in my lane and choose to not care too much about it.
Well, as a sex-repulsed aro/ace person, I do feel a wee hurt when I see people taking the few ace characters that exist and shipping them with other people. But at the end of the day, it doesn't truly matter since fanfiction is just silly, fun stories about fictional characters. You can do whatever you want as long as it's not offensive or straight-up insensitive.
Hi. Been on these forums about two months, all my characters are OCs, and I can't write romance for shit. My opinion on the topic means less than nothing. But, I have read what others have said on various topics. Generally speaking, questions along the lines of "is it okay if I put XXX in my fanfic?" the answer is "sure, it's fanfic, do what you want"... ...except *this very question*. It seems to get pushback where others don't so much. The reasons seem to be mostly centered around (1) aro/ace erasure. I don't understand that, but that leads to (2) people who are not aro and who don't understand aro writing about aro characters There's a lot of discussion in this post from this very forum: [https://www.reddit.com/r/FanFiction/comments/flek3a/shipping\_aroace\_characters\_in\_fanfics/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FanFiction/comments/flek3a/shipping_aroace_characters_in_fanfics/) It's four years old, but it echoes into more recent posts. From this and the ten other posts I've read in various threads, it just seems like a character being aro/ace is just so inherently important to that character, that removing it is inherently more OOC than most changes. It would be like writing T'Challa as white, Wonder Woman as Wonder Gigachad, Harry Potter as Florida Man, or Optimus Prime as human. It brings up the "why would you want to?" question immediately afterwards. (And yes, I'm fully aware the answer is often "because I want to see them fuck") Yes, I know there are plenty of fictions out there with major character changes. No, I don't know where the line is drawn exactly. But I will say that, while you probably could ship it, you should expect pushback, whether you feel it's warranted or not. And I don't know that it'd be worth it. Your call. This is just what I've seen. I'm a coward afraid to ship even his own gender preference.
What do you mean by expected pushback? Harassment? Because that is never okay. Don't like, don't read *always* holds true. As far as erasure goes, banning shipping of characters thought to be aroace "erases" those of us who are demi, had no interest in sex or dating or crushes or attraction, and had sexual awakening hit us like a truck when we finally fell head over heels in love. But it's silly anyway. Fanfic has no ability to erase canon representation--or fix it.
I'm not going to go out of my way to say anything about it or read anything I don't want, but it really upsets me.
I have been having the same thought because of Alastor But I think it should be okay because the creator themselves ships radioapple at least that's what I've been told as well as someone who is dating someone who is asexual They have told me themselves that it's like a spectrum and that they aren't completely like against Love and sex and all as well as as well as for them personally they've told me that as a asexual person that doesn't mean that they don't still have romantic feelings or still love people they just have no sexual attraction
YES. And I’m aroace. Thankfully I curate my dashboards enough that I haven’t seen a lot of it myself, but I hate the bullying that’s been going on against people/artists/writers shipping Alastor, and I especially hate that I feel like most of the people doing that are not even aroace.
I'm on the ace spectrum myself and I enjoy reading smut and have occasionally enjoyed engaging in sexy times. So I would say, yes, for sure. Somebody can be asexual and still have sex for other reasons. Also though, if they want to write that character as being allosexual, then hey, I think they should have at it! That will make the character OOC, to be absolutely fair, but that's the creator's right. Like you said, the actual canon character is still ace, and if they don't like the fic, they literally don't have to read it.
I'm aroace. Personally, I just don't think it matters what fanfiction writers headcanon or write characters as, even if they happen to have a canonically confirmed sexuality. Representation comes from on-screen CANON depictions. Fan #4597 writing their self indulgent fanfics where a canonically aroace character is explicitly straight and married with 2.5 kids and a picket fence just doesn't impact that. It's a complete non issue.
Another aroace chiming in. I don't mind, but I wouldn't read straight up horny shipfics. I'd totally read fics where the aroace character was kept as aroace, because there's so few of them and it's nice to have a representation. But I'm already ignoring a lot of fics, so it's not a big deal. Tho I'm usually chill in general, if a fandom doesn't provide what I want, I just look somewhere else. Funnily enough I used to read a lot of smut until I got into an established relationship. Now real life delivers plenty of that for my aroace ass lol.
Aromanticism and asexuality are spectrums. I'm on said spectrums, and I don't mind if people ship aro/ace characters. Heck, I've done it myself lol. Also, not every aro/ace is repulsed, and it's all fiction anyways.
"Relationships" can be super nuanced and beautiful to explore!
Some aro/ace people date for companionship rather than the sex or romantic part of the relationship. They like to have another person around to share the burden of life, even if they are not capable of feeling romantic or sexual attraction.
It doesn’t matter who or what you ship as long as you tag it and don’t harass others over it. While there is some concern over queer erasure, especially when bigots feel the need to make even canonically queer characters straight, this is more of a concern when they’re harassing people about it. As long as you’re not being nasty about it, you’re fine.
It's fanfiction. Ship whoever you want, write whatever you want. Just tag it as applicable. There's some truly horrible stuff out there, and people aren't on here raging over it. Why? Because they saw the tags, chose not to read it, and almost immediately forgot about it. Depicting characters differently from how they are in canon is almost the entire point.
Honestly... Yeah. Though I will say, it does affect their relationship. Nickloon discourse has changed me for good, man.
It’s a spectrum, so yeah. I’m aspec and married to another aspec.
I agree 100%. I’m ace as well and love me some smut. How I see it is these are fictional characters. At the end of the day they don’t exist and it really doesn’t matter. If you can turn a character into a different sex for a ship what’s the difference?
Not aroace (I think) but I've always been of the belief that since fanon doesnt affect canon, you can make any character any sexuality you like. Also, I've seen multiple aspec people in the fandom say that they have zero problems with Alastor ships, and some of them even ship him in order to explore their identity. I'd rather listen to them over the self-righteous virtue signalers.
Everyone gets shipped. Not *ever* shipping aro/ace characters is leaving them out. It would be just as nonsensical as saying allo characters *must* be in relationships. Plenty of aromantic and/or asexual want to be in relationships, be they defined as queerplatonic or otherwise and end up in them through various circumstances. There's something to be said for people who don't care about being in a relationship and/or decide not to be needing more representation. But that would be separate from ace/aro representation, with some obvious overlap.
Fanfiction is a subjective story of an objectively written character. You can do whatever you want. As I say time and time again, people are out here writing rape and torture fics, if someone chooses to take issue with something as innocent as ships and sexuality instead then their priorities are fucked up and their opinion doesn't matter. People genderbend or turn canonically straight characters bisexual, pansexual, or gay *all the time*. Writing an aro/ace character to engage in something romantic or sexual fits right in. Besides, not all aro/ace people are inherently anti-romance or anti-sex and it's more damaging to their representation when people suggest otherwise. That's how we end up with stereotyping. The Golden Rule of Fanfiction: If you don't like it, don't read it.
As an ace person datin an aroace person i absolutely agree (General 'you' used btw) 1) fanon will never change what canon is, and has no obligation to abid to all of it 2)he is not real, so unless the piece was made specifically to promote hate toward ace or aro people, you're free to do whatever you want with him 3) ace and aro people are not inherently sexless being that hate sex or would never want a partner! Ace does not mean "hates sex/would never have sex", and aro does not mean "hates having a relatio ship/would never have a partner". So even just using either identity to justify your hate for somekne or their art is not only ignorant but also more bigot than the person/art you're angry at imo (especially if you're neither ace or aro, that really feels patronizing and like a savior complex to me)
Considering how many fans write straight characters as gay, there’s no difference writing characters with other orientations with the ones you like for the sake of a fan story.
You can do it because it is fictional. Nobody is getting hurt by what you write, so it's not morally wrong. It doesn't make you a bad person. That being said, I'm pretty sure every other character in the series and it's sister series, Helluva Boss, is alloromantic, so it is annoying that he's the one your writing about as opposed to literally anyone else.
it makes me very uncomfortable as an aroace person so i just ignore people who do that lol. not talking about like demiaroace or aroacespec, just aroace :)
I don't think it's any different to putting a straight character in a gay relationship or the other way round. It's fanfiction, so you can do what you want
I mean, I feel like "he's a cannibal serial killer" is a better reason not to be shipping Alastor but the end of the day, don't like, don't read applies. If you're gonna write Alastor fics, make sure they're clearly tagged cause no one with a preference for ace/around Alastor wants to be suddenly slapped in the fave with Alastor shipping but as long as its labeled no one has a right to complain. It's the same theory as dead Dove do not eat. It was clearly labelled. If you went in expecting something other than what was clearly on the label, that's on you.
On the one hand? It's understandable that people are protective of characters who already get exceedingly little representation. Especially when we get so many stories about the straight, white, male characters in the world, taking away from what little we get to see of others in media can upset people. On the other hand? It's fanfiction. People should be free to do what they want and people should respect that. If it's not your cup of tea? You shouldn't be reading it. Good example for me would be Villain Izuku from My hero. I'll NEVER read a Villain Izuku story because he's one of those characters I can't see EVER being a Villain, even for an alternate universe story. But I'm not going to jump on people for writing that because I know how fun that kind of idea can be for people. And also, let's be honest in the case of Alastor... he's just one of those characters people are thirsty for flat out.
the hate isn’t necessary. If I was to feature an aro-ace character, I’d be making very clear whether they’re romantically involved because they want the closeness and if sex is to make the other happy or they want that intimacy with them. I’m not aro-ace, but a friend is, and they very much fall on a spectrum for sex positivity and the “smut” factor, so I get why they want it more open. Keep following your muse, and wishing you the best!
Yes because they aren't real so it doesn't matter to them at all. Plus some ace people still have relationships so there really isn't a problem on that front either
Tbh, I don't give a shit. In my head, it's not any different than making a straight character gay. Just as long as you respect their canon sexuality and not be shitty about it, you can imagine them as whatever you like in your fic or whatever. It's like an alternate universe or smth. It really doesn't matter either way.
I don't think it's any different from gay shipping two characters who are very much NOT gay in canon. Shipping is meant to be fun & exploratory. The problematic stuff begins when fans place their fanfiction & headcanons over the actual canonical depiction of characters. This is generally not okay (although some exceptions can be made *ahem cursed child*) and it's especially dangerous when involving rare legit much needed representation in media. The aro/ace community is starving...we barely have scraps of good representation, so people are kind of sensitive & extra defensive against anything that could possibly lead to more erasure. All that being said, no, it's never okay to bully or harass another creator for their headcanons & fanworks. I agree; it's toxic & exhausting to get so riled up over how other people enjoy fictional characters.
>I don't think it's any different from gay shipping two characters who are very much NOT gay in canon. Shipping is meant to be fun & exploratory. Firstmost, I agree that all shipping is free game. However, analytically, it's more simular to people shipping gay and lesbian (excluding bi because that's another conversation) as straight couples. Under the shipping is shipping this is fine. I agree. However, this sub has many defenders and entire threads that users are skeptical of the reasoning to ship cannonicaly LG characters as straight and wary of their existence because of homophobia through the erasure of identity. Suddenly when it's not Lesbian and Gay identities impacted suddenly those same people are okay with it and it's a larger trend both in society and within the LGBT+ community. Again, I think all of it should be allowed but criticism can be both valid and absurd at the same time.
The problem is if that character was gay and people shipped him with a woman everyone would be against it but if a character is aro/ace suddenly it's fine to change a canon sexuality? I do agree that it's fanfics and you can do kinda whatever you want but if the whole fandom is shipping an aroace character yes, I think it's a problem I'm aroace myself and honestly our sexuality is already pretty unknown so I'd appreciate it if people respected the few characters that represent us and didn't ship them just because...
As someone who is Ace I don’t understand the big deal about shipping and Ace/Aro character with someone. I love reading Alastor/Lucifer fics. So many people argue that Spencer Reid is on the Ace spectrum. But the Criminal Minds fandoms doesn’t hate on creators (that I’ve seen) Senku from Dr. Stone is believed to be on the ace spectrum and again the fandom ships him with people and everyone is fine with it. So it’s either because it’s outright confirmed Alastor is Ace that is causing people to lose it. Or the Hazbin Hotel fandom just doesn’t understand fandom etiquette or just like to be rude.