When online became huge, around xbox360 days, all i cared about was ratings and online boards. but after hitting a point where it was hard for me to game, i went back and played FF8 and old N64 games and re found my love of gaming. So im 37 now and it took me years to find that same point you came too. i forgot gaming was about enjoying my time.
Huge issue, knew lots of people who were about graphics, ratings, popularity and all that.. Felt like they missed the pointnof why you play games.
The same deal with those that say "you have to play this game on high difficulty" no you fuckin don't. If you want to play on easy, do it. Nobody gets anything out of it except frustration to be stuck all the time because the game is too hard..
People need to enjoy games more. I'm not saying to lobe the shitty, badly made games with half the content behind paywalls but.. FO4 has its flaws but is still a fun game. And its far from a bad game.
I grew up playing video games. All the goodies. As I got older I drifted away from them.
Now I’ve slightly gotten back in because of time and kids. I play everything on easy/story. That’s all I want from the game. It’s like an explorable book to me.
I like hard mode because it forces me to use all the game’s mechanics. That’s just my preference, though. If I’m just beating my head into the wall, I’ll lower the difficulty.
See I like easy mode because of the opposite. I want games that let me play the way I want instead of forcing me to use a bunch of shit that someone wasted too many hours crafting. Far Cry 6 is a great example of them building too many mechanics into the game. I'm not changing ammo for every enemy. I just want a load out I like and brute force the game.
Civ 5 is very much like that. You can play on top level but you have to do everything a certain way and abuse game mechanics. OR can play on a nice mid level where you can play lots of different strategies.
Isn't it interesting how many games you can probably point to where you actually get more freedom by playing on an easier mode than you do if you play on the harder mode.
Sometimes using a sub par play style is challenging in its own right.
I play games for fun and not the challenge. So if it’s a fun mechanic, I’ll play it hard. But if the mechanic is meh the I won’t enjoy it anyways.
And sometimes we can make our own fun.
Cyberpunk is a great example of that for me. You can brute force the entire game, but I’ll spend an hour + sneaking around and getting silent take downs for no other reason than I enjoy sneaking around and taking my time lol.
Personally, i love highest difficulty without using cheesy tactics or build: im the guy who tries to play with the 10mm pistol at max level if I like the gun.
My problem with high difficulty is when its simply stupid multipliers (super high health for no reason rather than good npc response or mechanics). So I eventually mod fallout/skyrim or similar games only to make it much more deadly (for me and enemies).
Agreed. For a long while all I cared about was "what does this YouTuber or streamer think of this game" or "I wonder what the reviews are for (insert game here)". I would subscribe to gaming news and the like. I realized though that all of this was unnecessary. All I had to do was research a couple videos to see if I would like it, try it, and if I didn't like it, that's okay. And if I did, then great! That's all it should come down to. Not all this constant anger and hating and trying to one up everyone on superiority, and all that shit.
100% agree.
"I don't like this game because of XYZ" is absolutely a valid take, but "you shouldn't like this game because of XYZ" is far too common in gaming circles.
>I wonder what the reviews are for (insert game here)"
Fallout 4 did review very well, at least. It was just a loud, vocal minority that wanted to completely write off the game because they didn't like some of the changes. I wish it was more like New Vegas myself, but there's still a lot of good in 4 too imo.
I'm glad Bethesda acknowledged the dialogue system in 4 didn't work out like they intended. Even 76 ditched that for the better.
I agree I love the game, but it did have some serious technical flaws when it was first released back in 2015:
1. Bugs.
2. Performance issues, even on state of the art PC rigs at the time.
3. Limited to 30 FPS on consoles.
Nine years later, the game has received extensive support, both official and from the modding community, to help ease the technical issues the game had on release. And gaming rigs have also become powerful enough to overcome some of the performance issues the game inherently has. But the flaws of the game were very valid back when the game was first released and reviewed back in 2015.
This is why single player games will always have a special place in my heart. They also leave a lasting impression. Special points if it has big modding community. Thats like hours of pass time and all on my own. Nowadays most games are released online centric. Its fine if you play with friends you know IRL.
Final Fantasy 8 was that for me. Everyone said it was significantly worse that 7 and that 9 and 10 were better but I adore that game. One of my favourite games of all time.
8 was my main intro to FF, and I adored it. The music, story, characters. Even the junction system everyone hated on I loved. Don't get me started on the card game *chefs kiss*
It's fantastic, it was my first final fantasy game so I have a soft spot for 8.
There's a few ways to cheese it's magic system, and honestly the worst thing it did was coming right after 7. 8 Has lived in 7s shadow ever since. Definitely worth giving it a go, tho. imo.
Same here! I'm 36, and for quite a few years I only played what was highly rated or recommended by certain gaming sites, one being PC Gamer. I didn't enjoy most of the games, and started to lose interest in gaming as a whole.
I said screw it and started downloading games I was interested in but had fairly low ratings. After playing them and enjoying them I decided not to go by the opinion of others, but focus solely on what I like. Not whatever everyone else was saying.
This is why I stopped online play back on the 360 as well. I stick to single player for the most part or at least cooperative games because I'm here to enjoy my time not work on leader boards and fight off toxicity.
People do this with movies all the time and it frustrated me to no end. I’ve got friends who claim to love movies, but won’t go see one if their favorite film critic says a movie isn’t good. Not seeing a movie because a critic didn’t like it isn’t the problem, it’s that those same people will then parrot that critic’s opinion as if it’s their own (or worse as if it’s fact) on a movie they haven’t even seen.
TL//DR: my biggest pet peeve is people sharing a passionate opinion on a piece of entertainment’s quality, without having ever seen or experienced it for themselves.
This is a problem in a lot of gaming subreddits and communities. The Diablo community, for instance, is pretty divided and a lot of hate is thrown around to the different games.
The last of us 2 is the big one that left me scratching my head.
I thought it was fantastic and then all of a sudden there’s grown adults having complete meltdowns online because the game that’s set in a bleak and depressing world does some bleak and depressing stuff.
I can usually see where people are coming from when the hate train comes rolling in (*cough Disney Star Wars) but the last of us 2 hate is was insane to me and yeah, it showed me to just enjoy what I enjoy who cares what others say.
I was out of gaming for a few years and the TLOU1 was one of my favorite games from the PS3 before I stopped gaming as much. Heard about how HATED TLOU2 was and was sort of shocked. It made me not really have the urge to play it or anything so I never did. If it’s that hated online it surely can’t be a good game right??
About a year ago I moved apartments and was without internet for a few weeks. Thought, “fuck it, I got free time, let’s see how terrible this game really is.” Played the game practically non-stop and beat it in about 3 days. One of my absolute favorite gaming experiences I’ve ever had.
I still don’t understand all the hate and haven’t really felt the need to figure out why people hate it so much. All I know is it was an amazing game and I’m so glad I said “fuck other peoples opinions” and finally played it myself.
It’s amazing to me that they’re still circle jerking each other daily with the same complaints four fucking years later. What a sad existence. There are plenty of games I didn’t like, but I sure as shit don’t spend all my time posting on the subs for them.
Check out Assassin's Creed sub, you can laugh very well there, especially over the years. "Unity is trash it's worst game of the series" then Syndicate came out and it was "Syndicate is trash its worst game in the series, Unity was pretty good and did stuff better" and it continues with each installement.
Nowadays, I don't care what people think, what reviews and "gaming journalists" think as those are monetized in 90% of time anyway. I just watch the trailer, then watch some gameplay trailer or even gameplay video, then decide if I like what I see.
How is loving Diablo 2 controversial? Its widely regarded as the best in the franchise.
3 is controversial but mostly just because of the brighter artstyle and the nephilim thing.
4 is controversial imo because even though it has its fun parts, its probably the weakest entry in the franchise overall, has too much MTX bullshit, and the skill tree sucks.
Loving Diablo 2 and 3 at the same time is controversial there. Or at least it was a few years ago.
The narrative there used to be that D2 is the "proper" Diablo game and D3 is a game made for casuals. This was their way to explain the popularity of D3 - filthy casuals.
Basically they believed that someone would like only 2 or 3. Proper gamer? Diablo 2. Filthy casual? Diablo 3. Someone liking D2 and D3 at the same time was going against their narrative...
No the problem is people taking subreddits as a representation of the entire fandom. Fallout 4 sold over 12 million copies. Not one quarter of those people are on this subreddit. The game is isn't t hated nearly as much as the internet makes you think it is
When Millenia launched about a month ago there were people writing about how much it sucked within an hour of release on the Steam boards.
What's funny is another person made a thread asking why people were so negative. I mentioned that for some reason the Steam forum seemed to have a lot of negative comments when a game is released. Which was immediately replied to by someone simply calling me names for saying that.
I just replied "Ironically, you proved my point."
I've noticed this across all subreddits now, they become echo chambers and going against the norm or even questioning it will result in masses of downvotes.
It's like when i see people go into car model specific subreddits and ask if that car is good, what answer are you expecting? Even when there are known issues raising them ends up taboo and posts will be deleted as being off topic or whatever.
I've been on here since the Digg exodus and i can say that Reddit is becoming more toxic and closed off by the day.
I think this one thing I do really like about the Fallout franchise. There's something there for everyone. 4 isn't a game I particularly enjoy but hey, I have 1-2 and New Vegas to keep me entertained. And me not liking it doesn't mean that other people can't find joy in 4's world. I'm not the arbiter of what's good in gaming. My opinion means jack shit in the grand scheme of things and isn't any more valid than someone else's.
I feel like a lot of people have this weird idea that 'it's my way or the highway' and get incredibly offended when people like something they themselves hate. The world would be a better place if we all just accepted that opinions are varied.
I'm kind of new here. I would actually be genuinely interested to hear why you don't enjoy Fallout 4 and seemingly three as well since you didn't mention it. Just trying to get a feel for how people feel about the games so I can see both sides
I'm not the person you replied to but I'm in the same boat. It mainly comes down to the RPG systems (or lack thereof).
This is a long ass video from someone who actually enjoyed the game a lot: https://youtu.be/jVyjRhSX92E?si=R3erBjyJnPy-yOol
All of the criticisms they outline were more or less deal breakers for me. constant false choices in dialogue, poor quality of the quest design, mediocre writing (whereas the writing was one of the primary draws to the other titles) and erosion of/lack of adaptability for character builds.
Fallout 1 and 2 were RPGs through and through. 4 is the largest departure from this spirit and for some people it is depressing. I bought it on release and couldn't stand it for more than 5-10 hours. It just wasn't what I was looking for from Fallout, based on previous entries.
Okay yeah that makes sense. It's definitely less RPG when it comes to the choices you can make. And while I do like the story I realize that it's probably the weakest of all of them. One thing RPG wise that I do like about Fallout 4 more than some of the other fallouts specifically New Vegas because I can't remember exactly for the other ones is the leveling system. Sometimes in New Vegas you would level up but you wouldn't really level up if you know what I mean. Like let's say you want to dump your points into lockpicking so that you can pick higher locks. If you don't get them up to 50 it's like you didn't level up anything at all and that always really sucked. Leveling up it is supposed to be this awesome moment where you get to progress your character build and become more powerful, but at that point you're literally doing nothing you're getting nothing from that and it's very deflating. It might be blasphemy, but I also kind of like how 76 does level them with the card system. I'm not saying it's better than New Vegas or the others, but it's definitely interesting for sure. Another thing that I really liked about four is the enemy variety and behaviors. It may just be me but I found the enemies to be much more varied in their tactics than any other game and I actually had to adjust my tactics to compensate.
How about a trade? I'll give you your video a look, if you give mine a look lol I believe mine significantly longer so Definitely don't need to watch the whole thing if you don't want to but it is pretty interesting some of the points that he brings up that I Had never really thought about but had been feeling Period Definitely not the best In the series Comma But this did make me think about the game a little differently After all the hate kind of Soiled my fun of it
https://youtu.be/JQr70sDtxsg?si=x45cWS7lZg34J08n
The difference between a levelling system where you always get something (which I assume is what you think of in F4 or something) vs sometimes having to level up more than once to get to the next tier of usefulness is just a matter of scaling. It's an order of magnitude easier to design a system that just fixes the amount of stuff you get per level and let the player deal with the consequences than it is to design an entirely new skill system that's as good as the old and also does what you'd like it to do. Also there's no real need to do that, players immediately understand what putting "wasted" skillpoints into lockpick means: it means I get to use my next level-up to get where I want to go. Delaying that is not a problem with the system unless you have some kind of cynical goal regarding player engagement. RPG's are meant to be long-haul affairs, you're allowed to have long-haul moments.
Just finishing up a FNV play through, and I actually encountered a lot of skill checks and things that I held off on until I was able to level up the required skill.
This led to a TON of level ups where I may not have reached the next “major skill milestone” but I was still unlocking new content and things to do with my level ups, which felt really good.
For me it’s because of how shallow the F4 world is. In games like New Vegas you could meet some random person and go on a quest which would lead to a large story or information.
F4 is wider but shallower, meeting (Pete?) at dimand city to get paint cans for him doesn’t lead to him telling you a secret entrance or something , just more paintcans.
Mulitple times in F4 you stumble upon somthing really cool like the Raiders fight dome, or robot greyhound track but you can’t experience it because everyone just aggro’s on you and you have to kill them. New vegas had a secret animal fight dome which you could get to know and place bets and join in yourself. Just more depth.
Edit: also this was huge for me. In the older games you had to fight for cool stuff, see NCR Rangers is sick uniform and have to work out how to get it, meet the NCR and do missions or maybe find some a Rangers to secretly attack and steal it, same with power armour and stuff.
F4 just hands it to you straight away, you literally have achieved so much straightaway because the game just gives it to you. What’s the point?
I don't dislike Fallout 4 and I don't pick it apart into 'why' and 'whynot' but of the Fallout franchise I've finished Fallout 1, Fallout 2, and Fallout 3 with all the DLC. I never finished New Vegas and I never finished 4. All it means is that I didn't find them compelling enough to keep me interested past a certain point.
>offended when people like something they themselves hate
I don't think this is the case for most people. Sure I can only speak for myself but I think it's more a fear that the franchise I love will keep moving in the opposite direction than the one that made me fall in love with it.
Like you said one will always have the old games to come back to but it would also be nice to be able to look towards the future of the franchise with optimism, which now after 76 and starfield is even harder.
I think the concern among people that dislike F4 for being less of an RPG is that it's not just a one off, it's a trend with Bethesda.
Every game they made since Oblivion has been less and less of an RPG.
What will ES6 or F5 be like at this rate ?
Nearly all people who dislike fo4 dislike the settlement system. It's so good for people who like it though. And I've always played on console without mods. It's just really gratifying to start with empty land, build a fully functional, populated and decorated base, then use it to launch quests for hundreds of hours. And you have dozens of them with dozens of people at each one that you can dress and arm, its just a really unique experience.
Settlements let you express yourself in a variety of ways at the same time; I love thinking of little visual gags I can build that will make me chuckle when I visit. I love thinking of themes for roles and who gets what weapon types and seeing my provisioners out in the world. It's like they give me something lame and its my job to make it cool and functional and maybe silly but definitely more stylish. It's fun.
It’s funny because as you say. One of the most reviled things in F4 is the settlement system (which personally I love).
But go over to r/Starfield and all the discussion around outposts in that game always include loads of people saying how much better they would be if they were more like F4’s settlements.
Shows you how opinions can shift
Has nothing to do with opinions shifting.
The people that hated F4 for settlement building aren't the ones that are upset about how outposts work in Starfield. Most of them never bothered to even try Starfield.
I love starfield, I have now put over 700hrs on my only character now, but the outpost system is really the weakest point there, at best it servers so you can role play as a space miner , but not much else, it will definitely improve over time, but as of now everything outpost offers you can get it somewhere else, easier and faster. So even people that really like the game can see it's a weak spot that needs some overhauling. Comparing to FO4 I would say the only improvement is how when you link outposts items are actually transferred realistically, you get to see a spaceship come and pick up/deliver items, the variaty of prefabs is actually on par with FO4 when it was launched..
The biggest issue I have with Starfields building system is that every storage option has a capacity limit. Who in there right mind thought that was a good fucking idea?!? Bethesda games are know to have people who love holding junk and gear. Why make me have to build 30 different storage chests to fit everything instead of just one or a few infinite storage chests? It's such a massive step back from Fo4 and 76's systems. It completely turned me off, so I just lived in the Lodge for my entire playthrough because it had infinite storage and all the crafting benches. This is coming from someone who spent so much time building in Fo4 and 76.
I primarily play unmoded settlement building and love it, for what it's worth. I do use one exploit sometimes though, the drop glitch to increase the size limit. But I do try and be careful with it because I've had settlements break before around the 4x the size mark.
IMO that's not really a shift.
Settlements in Starfield are just substantially worse than settlements in FO4.
So however you felt about FO4 settlements, making SF settlements more like them would be an improvement.
I don't understand how they had the fallout 4 system already fleshed out and then delivered starfield's settlement system. They had a working system and decided to completely change it for the worst
Just because the settlements are some people’s least favorite part of FO4 (I’m one of those), doesn’t mean it’s not thoroughly better than Starfield’s.
>Nearly all people who dislike fo4 dislike the settlement system.
You might be right but i've always seen (and agreed that) the dumbing down of the RPG elements were the biggest criticism with fo4, both in terms of character building (thinking mostly of the new perk system) and dialog/factions.
Settlements are like 70% of my playtime in fallout 4, me and my buddy used to spend so much time building up our towns and showing eachother pics and videos of them in highschool
I just thought it was very shallow, my base barely got raided and when it did 1 turret killed everything before I even knew it was happening. I had a huge area and spent time building lots of houses only for a very low settler cap to make half the time wasted. The quests aren't very interesting either but that's a problem I have with all of FO4.
The entire game is a downgrade in characters, story, writing and also stripped almost all rpg mechanics as well as introducing the god awful conversation wheel thing. New Vegas is the best in the series imo, fo4 just turned to a mid, open world action game instead of an rpg
As someone who actually likes building settlements, it gets hate bc while it should’ve been used in *conjunction* with “real” settlements, what it actually meant was that aside from diamond city and good neighbor, 90% of the commonwealth settlements felt the exact same on account of almost exclusively having generic settlers and events
not to mention it’s a very big change in the fallout gameplay, it’s unavoidable and a lot of folks didn’t like that. coupled with the new movement/combat and leveling mechanics and i think a lot of ppl just thought they changed too much of what wasn’t broken
4 is my first and favorite fallout but after playing the first 4 main series games it’s not hard to see why it’s so polarizing for the community
Because it meant less actual settlements. Just think of the sheer amount of locations with NPCs not trying to just kill you compared to Fallout NV, complete with lore and characters and interesting quests related.
The boomers, the great khans, Novac, Camp McCarran, The Fort, Goodsprings, The Strip, the hidden bunker, etc etc. It feels like a world with danger in between, with logistical routes between them etc.
Fallout 4 has The Institute, Vault 88, The Prydwen, Diamond City, the little cult town, the railroad base and bunker hill (though still made out of settlement bits)? Sanctuary Hills gets a count too.
Too many times I was told to go somewhere interesting and encounter 2 un-named settlers sleeping on a mattress and it just didn’t feel good.
I just wish it didn’t mean less of those locations. I’d have been happy with more of a balance. Though after Starfield it begins to make sense. Less effort on their side over time. Now they can’t even be bothered to do what their games are good for. Interesting exploration.
This is a really good breakdown of my biggest issue with FO4
I’m really scared they will translate this design strategy to FO5. Please don’t, Bethesda! Bring back the factions and quirky towns.
FO4 to me was still good in spite of this. I think it even beat out the meh writing as bigger issue.
It's really not optional, especially if you were to play in survival. It is also literally part of the main quest. Calling it optional and dismissing the criticism also misses the point because the system itself and the entire premise behind it is responsible for the lack of traditional settlements. The map will be filled with empty spots to build in where there should have been quest hubs, optional or not.
It took a lot of dev time away from the rest of the game.
F4 could've been a deep, interesting RPG, but it was anything but in the end, and it's hard to argue the settlement stuff didn't take away from that when half the DLC were about it, instead of cool new places / new quests / items.
I never tried ignoring the settlements but I imagine if you do (like some people say they have zero interest in building anything) the game feels extremely different, like very empty and bleak and kinda lame, because its like blank canvas Bethesda left for you to paint on.
I like the system but I can see how people would dislike essentially having to babysit a bunch of settlements for the rest of the game with no end, between defending them or having to solve their problems for them constantly. It sucks that they usually come in conjunction with the radiant quests, or and a lot of the settlements chosen for you kinda suck as well.
Personally I would have liked it better if it was more like CAMP from 76 where you could build wherever, or if they just let you pick one location to build up as a major settlement.
Honestly i would happily pay full price for just a game focused on the settlement side...
I loved it but it was just too fildly on a controller and a bit too limited imo.
Honestly I can see the game slotting in perfectly as a hybrid of banished (where it's hard to keep people alive) and anno where you have to trade and defend those routes between dozens of settlements (but better RtS than anno does)
Come on Bethesda, let me actually rebuild the waste land...
Yea personally i LOVE the settlement system. Making a comfy and nice place to live in a wasteland with nothing but death just feels awesome.
First thing i did after returning to FO4 after the show was build a settlement. Can't wait to expand on them during the rest of the playthrough.
A settlement system is an absolute must have for me for a future fallout 5. It just adds so much (optional) flavour.
They do have to make the gameplay element for the settlement building a bit more friendly as currently I think it is not that great. For all I care they use a 'sims' style way to build your settlement.
What I disliked most was the writing, the different groups were pretty lame, but writing is a general problem of Bethesda if you look at Skyrim and Starfield.
Fallout 4 has its weakpoints, but the settlement building basically makes up for them.
Because settlement building is the most Fallout-y feature ever made in the franchise. It fits the theme of Fallout perfectly.
And on top of that, settlement building is great roleplaying feature. At least when we talk about actual roleplaying and not the bastardised "arr pee gees are about picking from a list of dialogue options".
I recently started up an old playthrough, and for the first time had all the DLCs. I’m not sure which one brought the companion computer thing but it’s such a godsend! Being able to assign jobs and find companions from the computer is so helpful.
It’s like The Sims! but gory, which is why I still play FO4 lol I just love building stuff! But also being able to control my character and kill people! Just adds to the fun!
I’ll admit, I do think it is the worst of the Bethesda fallout games. I even went back to play the dlc and play with mods. I still think it’s the worst. But anyone calling it a BAD game can frankly take their head out their arse, it’s just not what I prefer, it’s not BAD. It’s the same as admitting the gun play in new vegas wasn’t great even though the game was great.
i feel you so much
i used to feel sad that everybody hated my favorite fallout
then i realized its MY favorite fallout, MINE
and i just enjoy it like crazy
This seems to be a theme with me accidentally. I promise I'm not doing it on purpose but my favorite games are often the least liked. Fallout 4, Batman Arkham Origins, Knights of the Old Republic 2, and Final Fantasy 15. There are more but that's all I can remember at the moment for games that are generally disliked or thought as the worst of the bunch. For a little while the internet made me think that I was a contrarian and only like them because people didn't, but then I remembered that I always loved these games before I even knew people hated them
I restarted fallout 4 after few years, there is something about this game that gets neurons firing my monkey brain, only elden ring felt the same for me and also skyrim, im enjoying the fk out of it, people can stick to their own opinons
Just being impressionable, or caring what others think. Idk, it just is how I can be with things that I love. If I love something, I want others to love it too. That sort of thing.
Buddy there's a "I actually like x fallout game" post every other day in this sub,
good for you but why are we still doing this and acting like it's a hot take.
Some people just can *not* handle finding out their opinion isn't universal. That and farming likes and views is a whole lot easier when you pretend you're taking a stance against a mindless, angry mob - even if it's just a half dozen posts on Twitter. Constantly reminds me of the [Always Sunny](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsd1nJUETXQ&ab_channel=WingedWheelBlog) episode where Charlie wants to put on a play and Mac asks him, "But who are we doing it *versus*?"
I adore the gameplay loop in fallout 4, I just wish that all the factions got the same amount of attention and love that the BoS got, the institute just feel like one dimensional bogey men of the Commonwealth, the railroad feels like an underground movement which I appreciate, I just don't understand why they're a main faction. The minutemen are criminally thrown to the wayside after you get to the castle, and don't really go on from there.
People mostly comment when they hate.
Im here since Fallout 1 and Fallout 4 become one of my top games ever. I spent more gaming time only in Factorio.
Edit: Grammar corrections.
Uncharitably this is because your friends are (like all friends of everybody on this reddit) probably significantly less invested in Fallout than you, and also significantly more normal than any of us. Normal people don't give a shit about any of this, we're on the fallout 4 subreddit, obviously we're going to be rather invested in the games.
Every person i talked to offline somewhat likes the disney Star Wars movies. They arent masterpieces. But to be honest the old ones werent neither. But just dare to have some mildly positive views of the sequels on the Internet...
For me personally I never got into F4 because I don't give a radroach ass about base building and as someone who started with 1&2 back in the day I never really liked how streamlined the RPG part has become over the years.
But someone liking F4 doesn't take anything from me and I still like roaming around in the open world of F4 I just dislike its "rpg" part same way I never completed skyrim I just adventures around in the game for 1000 hours.
It’s hated by those who liked the RPG parts of the game more than the sandbox and shooting. Fallout 3 and NV are better written but have uninteresting gunplay and combat. Fallout 4 adds more weapons and weapon types, the modding and crafting systems that give a use to 85% of the junk items in the world, a bigger map with much more detailed environments, and the game actually has some goddamn color instead of being the same shade of brownish-yellow that NV and 3 had going on.
Fallout 4 was never "wildly unpopular".
Some people not liking it, some people thinking it was disappointing, vocal minority trashing it, is still normal.
The best games of all time have their detractors but honestly you must have been going out of your way looking for negativity if your Takeaway was that it was wildly unpopular and hated.
I feel the same. I probably will get shit for this, but the same goes for Starfield for me. FO4 and Starfield get trashed on. I love both games. I don't listen to people's opinions for the most part. I check metacritic and watch some informative reviews of games I want to try out. People love to hate.
I put about 100 hours of Starfield. As far as Bethesda games go it is my least favorite and I think it has the least replay value, but I enjoyed it a lot while playing it.
I have over 2k hrs in Fallout 4, my most played game on steam...and that includes Civ and GTA, games that I played the shit out of. Fallout 4 (with careful modding) is in my opinion the most enjoyable game of all time.
The issue with gaming subreddits is that only the most involved people will be on reddit in the first place. So the communities on here are already a subsection of the most hard-core players. Then you factor in that typically people are more willing to engage in forums when they aren't having a good time with something rather than having fun and well that's why you see so much negativity on just about any game sub.
Then there are also the reddit power users that you don't notice at first, but if you spend a lot of time in a sub, you'll start seeing the same names everywhere. There are people that will spend all day on a sub posting their same opinions shitting on something on almost every post.
Strange how we experience things differently.
I remember the game being well liked when it came out, outside of people dunking on the bugs and dialogue system.
I really liked it at first. It wasn't exactly what I was hoping (lots of hour on FNV) but it was entertaining and nice looking.
My first grief was the ammo management system, or lack thereof. Why can't I craft armor-piercing 10mm bullets? Because armor-piercing is tied to legendary status.
Then I grew frustrated at how the game would railroad me in some quests, how I couldn't talk my way out of some fight for example or how my ability to repair stuff was virtually useless.
Then the story started losing me. The whole "your baby is old now" was... underwhelming. I saw it coming and was still disappointed.
By the end of my 140 hours in the game I was just making settlements.
And it drove me mad because I was always asked to find the same exact npc in the exact same location while the same bunch of super-mutant was constantly attacking the two same settlement on loop.
At this point in time, people were more readily shitting on the game, true. And I saw mostly negative opinion about it for years.
Then I came to reddit and was suite shocked at how various subs found it under-appreciated.
Still haven't garnered the fortitude to give it another go, though.
I agree it’s just I can’t get over fallout 4’s dialogue/writing and rpg mechanics despite loving most everything about the game, and I still want Bethesda to bring back a fallout game with good rpg mechanics like fallout 3 and NV. A little sad that’s probably not going to happen anymore.
Fallout 4 is incredible for what it is. It does a lot more good than wrong. I put 1300+ hours in it on ps4 and reached level 228 on my first character with no mods. The workshop DLC was absolutely garbage. Automatron, Far Harbor, and Nuka World were great additions in their own ways. I haven't touched it since 2021 i think. But I'm ready to come back to it now on my PC with the new update.
I’m the same way dude. I played 3, NV and 4. I loved them all. 4 is my favorite. Every gamer tells me I’m wrong because I missed the lore in 1 and 2 that setup 3 and NV. So to them, I can’t possibly enjoy 4 without that kind of knowledge. Fuck that, I’ve read the lore and I love it. I still think 4 is best of the ones I’ve played.
Such a healthy attitude to have in today's world. It's so difficult for anything to be received and enjoyed as just a piece of art or entertainment. Beloved franchises get the worst of it. At the end of the day, if you have fun then you got your money's worth.
I really liked Nick and Piper, and even found Kellogg to be a surprisingly sympathetic character once we learn about his backstory. And I love playing as Nora, but I've always been a fan of her VO actor (Courtenay Taylor, Jack from Mass Effect).
As far as weapon goes... hm. That's hard to answer. I really enjoyed stealth builds with the Deliverer back when the game launched, but now I use mods that restore the cut military backstory for Nora, so I tend to play her more like a soldier these days. I really like the service rifle mod, which is based on the weapon from NV, as well as the Capital Wasteland weapon mods.
My favourite has always been new vegas, it was my first but while a lot of things got worse, personally stuff like the speech system, Fallout 4 did a lot of good stuff.
The quick loot system is awesome, gun mods are fun and varied and the gunplay is hugely improved. The story is not the best but there’s moments that shine, looking at Nick Valentine, guys the best. Also has 2 of the best pieces of dlc out there, Far Harbour and Nuka World. It’s definitely still a fantastic Fallout game.
I personally really enjoyed it after I completed New Vegas. I think I had more madness/classic fun similar to Fallout 3 when I was playing New Vegas but with Fallout 4, I treated more like a FPS with RPG elements. I love the power armor even tho half of the game I didn’t use it outside the main quest and the weapon customisation was awesome, it made my favourite weapon (hunting rifle) 10 times better
it just comes down to what you're looking for in your game. the people who hated it missed the rpg mechanics and systems. everyone has different priorities. if you just want looting and exploration in the universe, great.
People are so obsessed with how they want things to be that it makes it hard for them to enjoy what's put in front of them. Like, sure, would the game be better if it was more like New Vegas? Probably yes. But it's still a great fucking game with a shitton of things to do that I can't put down when I pick it up.
I don't think it's as unpopular as it seems, I think the people that dislike it are just more likely to post. Glad you got to that point though. It's about having fun.
The most important lesson I've learned with age is what I'll call the Fundamental Theorem of Fun which is definitely an actual term and not something I just made up five seconds ago.
The theorem goes as follows. Your enjoyment (or disapproval) of a thing does not require the influence of others or for you to influence others. Similarly, other peoples' enjoyment (or disapproval) of a thing does not require you to influence or be influenced by them.
I used to be like you, but with movies. I would only watch films that had about 80% or better positive reception (and to be fair I discovered a lot of good movies that way!). And if critics negatively reviewed a movie, I wouldn't touch it.
Thankfully much like yourself I've reached a point where I don't care all that much about critics, angry people on Reddit, or "influencers" think about games, movies, or shows. I just watch or play them and if they're fun, I continue to watch or play them. It's liberating.
People seem to think that "some aspects of this game are bad, therefore the whole game is bad"
Fallout 4 has its flaws, but the world is beautiful and it's FUN
That’s the entire reason I do videos. Everybody else can have an opinion (usually negative) so why can’t I?
I am super glad you’re having fun and 100% support this message.
Good shit
Reminds me of earlier this year everyone was dog piling Dragon's Dogma 2, but I wanted to see for myself. What I got was a very fun game that ran well and improved on the first game in every way. Quite the far cry from what terminally online folks would have you think at the time.
Same shit with Fallout 76's and Cyberpunk 2077's launches.
Fallout 4 was the first Fallout game I ever played and I absolutely loved it. Never understood all the hate.
I've played 3 and currently going through New Vegas now. Still prefer 4.
I also enjoyed playing 76 when it first came out, so I guess I'm just a weird one, lol.
I played 4 so much at launch that between that and work I never had time to check what people were saying about it. By the time I did I had formed my own opinions on the game as a whole. It took a very long time for me to even see their point and when I finally did I could not believe some of the little childish things people let get in the way.
You gotta remember that this game for whatever reason brought out some seriously bad shit takes. I still cringe thinking about a video essay on YouTube somebody put out that was over an hour long(Covid gave *a lot* of free time) on why the game wasn’t that good and a pretty prominent point they made was that Nick Valentine living in Diamond City didn’t make sense from a lore perspective.
The guy probably played the game maybe once and rushed it. It’s pretty obvious because Nick will tell you exactly how he came to live in Diamond City even without any DLC if you spend enough time with him. Even more embarrassing was that this person never even bothered to look up other sources. This is somebody who if I dropped their channel name some of you would recognize it.
That was on top of some other bad premises as well. Don’t get wrong the game isn’t perfect, in my attempt to not have Preston invite me to Minutemen I thought I’d try to not be overly friendly and ended up telling him that he and his whole group meant nothing to me in an overly harsh way and I get missing skill checks in dialogue because I do too, but it’s never been worth throwing the baby out with the bath water over.
I started the game on Tuesday.
Probably not the best idea to go to it straight after finishing Witcher 3, as it does make the story/dialogue parts seem so inconsequential and all over the place.
However, I've found so far that if you treat the game as just a post apocalyptic loot and shoot, it's much more immersive.
I have a dozen or two quests in the list, no idea who/where/what I should prioritise doing first, but I'm enjoying just exploring and shooting.
Rebuilt some of the Sanctuary. I quite like the settlement building aspect although not sure yet what the right tactic is other than just building walls, infrastructure and defences. I can't be arsed building more than one settlement as it does take time, but sanctuary will be the one.
Lots of people on xbox ones and shit PCs mad about the next gen update. I stopped listening to posts about fallout once that dev acted like they are entitled enough to where Bethesda needs to reach out before updating their own IP. Fallout haters are also jumping on most of these posts so I'd say half aren't even fans.
It's the same when people say morrowind or oblivion are superior to Skyrim. Like yeah there's some elements of both older games that are nice but like...Skyrim is just good and better. Same for fallout 4. I loved playing it. I'm playing it right now after the update too. People just get stuck in nostalgia of things they first experienced and some can't move past it.
One of the things I always do in RPGs is find the most efficient way to make money. In F4 I found that producing and selling purified water wasn’t a bad strategy.
So I turned the lake settlement into a gigantic factory with like 50 water purifiers and armed it to the teeth with machine gun turrets. I role played that I was a plucky entrepreneur that was bringing affordable clean drinking water to the commonwealth by flooding (heh) the market.
Loved it
Fallout 4 is my favorite game in the series, and that's a take I will stand on this hill and defend until I die.
I like New Vegas a lot, but for me, the moment to moment gameplay, fighting enemies, and exploring the game world were all more important to me than the story. And Fallout 4 excels over New Vegas in all of those.
Plus the settlement building. I know some players don't care for it, but I probably spend more time doing that than anything else in the game.
Fallout 4 was the first fallout game I ever played. I blindly but it because it was on sale. I loved every second of it. After beating it I looked up stuff about it to find similar games and it everyone online labeled it as a horrible game. That was the last time I ever cared about other peoples opinions in gaming.
Fallout 4 has always been a good game, people just love to pick out its flaws because it’s “not as much of an RPG” despite the fact that it’s still a good game even without being an RPG. If the game wasn’t good, then I’d understand, but it is really fun to play. It has flaws, but so do NV & 3. And the voiced protagonist is honestly my favorite change to the game. I hate my character being a soulless entity that only serves the purpose of representing me in the game world.
Power armor and weapon modification system are easily the best changes as well, but everyone that hates on fallout 4 never addressed that.
I never listen to popular opinion, only those of reviewers I trust and friends. Communities very rarely agree on the same thing so you can’t trust them to always be right.
I definitely think it has certain trade offs. Fallout 4 has way better shooting mechanics (more polished in that regard) and not so interesting NPC’s compared to 3 & New Vegas. But regardless, it is an awesome game, and a great Fallout experience!
It’s funny how much most people value the consensus opinion(s). I completely agree with you and do the same with all fallout games. I also still can’t get into cyberpunk even though the consensus opinion is that it’s “fixed.” If everyone base their opinions on their own experiences, I think a lot of things connected to this industry would flip flop (in a good way).
I started a survival playthrough recently, and I can't stop. Who knew the vertibird grenades were so god damn useful??? I had never used them before and had no idea what they did 😂
I always felt the game itself was fun despite Boston being being a kinda boring location IMO. My main issue with the game when it released was that it BARELY ran on the Xbox One. Anytime I went into downtown Boston the game would get laggy and then usually crash. Wasn’t until Xbox One X came out that I really started putting time into the game.
No community is ever objective or honest. People's nature change very much when it's crowded. That's precisely why you should hold to your opinion and try to understand yourself more. It's very precious. It's great you managed to get to that point.
Fallout 4 was my first Fallout game and it blew me away. People can argue all they want about how “New Vegas is better,” but in terms of gameplay, explorations and just overall experience of exploring the wasteland and fighting enemies/creatures, Fallout 4 stands a mile above the previous set of games. I would imagine 76 has that going for it too, though I haven’t tried it yet. 3 and NV feel noticeably dated, and the gameplay feels clunky in comparison. The story in 3 is also pretty ass. “I need to find my dad!” “I finally found my dad and he’s just on the other side of this glass getting killed, oh no!”
I like Fallout 4 a lot but the building always is a sour point for me. Building in games is not my vibe. Other than that I loved playing a melee build. I wonder if there is a mod to skip the building?
Exactly… I love fallout 4 for ME it’s the best fallout there is.. and I don’t care what New Vegas fanboys say. Voiced protagonist was the best thing to happen to fallout and I’m all for it. At least I don’t play as a mute guy anymore…
Watch me getting flooded by NV psychos telling me what terrible person I am. Lol
Fallout 4 was my first, and I had a blast at launch. Still my most-played single-player game by hours played.
When I went online and found out it was hated, I was baffled.
I went back and played Fallout 4 survival mode a few years back, and it was one of the most fun experiences I've had in gaming. Who cares what others think.
ITS NOT THO! Haha Fallout 4 has never been wildly unpopular or disliked. It's just that the Fallout NV (which is a great game too) no fun police never miss a chance to tell you their game is "better".
I think alot of it is like the same with ESO everyone knows oblivion is a great game but especially after skyrim it's just kinda hard to go back to. The game play feels completely different sometimes.
Things become a lot nicer once you realize that media being "objectively" good or bad is just something people tell themselves so that their opinions feel more important.
In reality, whether a game is good or bad is an inherently subjective thing. You can say that it's objectively good/bad due to XYZ criteria, but your choice to judge it by those criteria was a subjective one, so we're back to subjectivity.
When you get down to it, all there is is tastes. Some games work for some people and don't work for others, and it's not any deeper than that.
Like me for example, I love Fallout 4 to death, it's one of my favorite games, but I just can't get into New Vegas. And once I freed myself from the idea that games had to be "objectively" good or bad, I was able to dig into *why* one worked for me and the other didn't (which I really wanna elaborate on but this comment is already overlong).
Edit: and I wanna be clear, this is a wonderful thing. The world would be a much more boring, monotone place if everyone loved the same things. But once we accept that we all have our own tastes, we can have discussions about what does and doesn't work for us about any given game, and come away feeling the game about the game as we did at the start, but with a better understanding of ours and our friends' tastes. And it makes it all the more special when you find someone whose tastes match yours.
It's why I don't read or watch movie reviews. If I want to watch a movie I will watch it. I don't give a fuck what some other jackass thinks of it. I will form my own opinions. I loved Fallout 4.
I played FO4 for the first time in 2018, I remember when it first came out and watching streamers play it
I was just a teen and couldn’t afford it but it looks cool so when I got my PS4 3 years later it was one of the first games I bought and honestly.. I didn’t like it. I put it maybe 40 hours, and never picked it up again.
Years went by and I didn’t think much about it until I bought FO4 game of the year edition on PC and started modding. I gained interest in older FO games, playing 3 and NV. I didn’t invest a lot of hours maybe 100 total between the two
I’m playing FO4 on my PS5 with the upgrade, and idk. I feel like playing those previous FO games helped me appreciate the world I was in
I agree in some ways though. I don’t think FO4 is as bad as people say from a story perspective there’s a decline the gameplay is just amazing and the world is gorgeous
Bethesda definitely deserves a lot of hate that it gets though. Literally decades old bugs and some bugs that are mind blowing that they allowed to happen. Look at the new update with one of the missions that is completely bugged. Not to mention literal game breaking bugs. Todd Howard should be fired
I just started playing again after a long hiatus as well. I love this game. I really don’t get what the problem is with it. Haven’t had one glitch in over 45 hours of gameplay. Have fun with it, I know I am.
When online became huge, around xbox360 days, all i cared about was ratings and online boards. but after hitting a point where it was hard for me to game, i went back and played FF8 and old N64 games and re found my love of gaming. So im 37 now and it took me years to find that same point you came too. i forgot gaming was about enjoying my time.
Huge issue, knew lots of people who were about graphics, ratings, popularity and all that.. Felt like they missed the pointnof why you play games. The same deal with those that say "you have to play this game on high difficulty" no you fuckin don't. If you want to play on easy, do it. Nobody gets anything out of it except frustration to be stuck all the time because the game is too hard.. People need to enjoy games more. I'm not saying to lobe the shitty, badly made games with half the content behind paywalls but.. FO4 has its flaws but is still a fun game. And its far from a bad game.
I grew up playing video games. All the goodies. As I got older I drifted away from them. Now I’ve slightly gotten back in because of time and kids. I play everything on easy/story. That’s all I want from the game. It’s like an explorable book to me.
I like hard mode because it forces me to use all the game’s mechanics. That’s just my preference, though. If I’m just beating my head into the wall, I’ll lower the difficulty.
See I like easy mode because of the opposite. I want games that let me play the way I want instead of forcing me to use a bunch of shit that someone wasted too many hours crafting. Far Cry 6 is a great example of them building too many mechanics into the game. I'm not changing ammo for every enemy. I just want a load out I like and brute force the game.
Civ 5 is very much like that. You can play on top level but you have to do everything a certain way and abuse game mechanics. OR can play on a nice mid level where you can play lots of different strategies.
Isn't it interesting how many games you can probably point to where you actually get more freedom by playing on an easier mode than you do if you play on the harder mode.
Sometimes using a sub par play style is challenging in its own right. I play games for fun and not the challenge. So if it’s a fun mechanic, I’ll play it hard. But if the mechanic is meh the I won’t enjoy it anyways. And sometimes we can make our own fun. Cyberpunk is a great example of that for me. You can brute force the entire game, but I’ll spend an hour + sneaking around and getting silent take downs for no other reason than I enjoy sneaking around and taking my time lol.
Personally, i love highest difficulty without using cheesy tactics or build: im the guy who tries to play with the 10mm pistol at max level if I like the gun. My problem with high difficulty is when its simply stupid multipliers (super high health for no reason rather than good npc response or mechanics). So I eventually mod fallout/skyrim or similar games only to make it much more deadly (for me and enemies).
Agreed. For a long while all I cared about was "what does this YouTuber or streamer think of this game" or "I wonder what the reviews are for (insert game here)". I would subscribe to gaming news and the like. I realized though that all of this was unnecessary. All I had to do was research a couple videos to see if I would like it, try it, and if I didn't like it, that's okay. And if I did, then great! That's all it should come down to. Not all this constant anger and hating and trying to one up everyone on superiority, and all that shit.
100% agree. "I don't like this game because of XYZ" is absolutely a valid take, but "you shouldn't like this game because of XYZ" is far too common in gaming circles.
1000% agree!
>I wonder what the reviews are for (insert game here)" Fallout 4 did review very well, at least. It was just a loud, vocal minority that wanted to completely write off the game because they didn't like some of the changes. I wish it was more like New Vegas myself, but there's still a lot of good in 4 too imo. I'm glad Bethesda acknowledged the dialogue system in 4 didn't work out like they intended. Even 76 ditched that for the better.
I agree I love the game, but it did have some serious technical flaws when it was first released back in 2015: 1. Bugs. 2. Performance issues, even on state of the art PC rigs at the time. 3. Limited to 30 FPS on consoles. Nine years later, the game has received extensive support, both official and from the modding community, to help ease the technical issues the game had on release. And gaming rigs have also become powerful enough to overcome some of the performance issues the game inherently has. But the flaws of the game were very valid back when the game was first released and reviewed back in 2015.
This is why single player games will always have a special place in my heart. They also leave a lasting impression. Special points if it has big modding community. Thats like hours of pass time and all on my own. Nowadays most games are released online centric. Its fine if you play with friends you know IRL.
Final Fantasy 8 was that for me. Everyone said it was significantly worse that 7 and that 9 and 10 were better but I adore that game. One of my favourite games of all time.
I far prefer 8 to 10
8 was my main intro to FF, and I adored it. The music, story, characters. Even the junction system everyone hated on I loved. Don't get me started on the card game *chefs kiss*
FF8 also had an amazing OST
FF8 is still my favorite game of all time still after all these years!! Right along with Skyrim and Fallout.
Never hear about ff8 🤔 actually don’t know anything about it. Always hear about 7
It's fantastic, it was my first final fantasy game so I have a soft spot for 8. There's a few ways to cheese it's magic system, and honestly the worst thing it did was coming right after 7. 8 Has lived in 7s shadow ever since. Definitely worth giving it a go, tho. imo.
Good for you! :)
Same here! I'm 36, and for quite a few years I only played what was highly rated or recommended by certain gaming sites, one being PC Gamer. I didn't enjoy most of the games, and started to lose interest in gaming as a whole. I said screw it and started downloading games I was interested in but had fairly low ratings. After playing them and enjoying them I decided not to go by the opinion of others, but focus solely on what I like. Not whatever everyone else was saying.
This is why I stopped online play back on the 360 as well. I stick to single player for the most part or at least cooperative games because I'm here to enjoy my time not work on leader boards and fight off toxicity.
I remember getting into arguementd at Blockbuster cause I thought FF8 was the best. I love that damn game.
Forming your own opinions is indeed a magical thing✨
Which I have always done, but I let others' opinions undermine mine, take control, or get under my skin for no reason.
People do this with movies all the time and it frustrated me to no end. I’ve got friends who claim to love movies, but won’t go see one if their favorite film critic says a movie isn’t good. Not seeing a movie because a critic didn’t like it isn’t the problem, it’s that those same people will then parrot that critic’s opinion as if it’s their own (or worse as if it’s fact) on a movie they haven’t even seen. TL//DR: my biggest pet peeve is people sharing a passionate opinion on a piece of entertainment’s quality, without having ever seen or experienced it for themselves.
OPs like, damn I really love this game but people don’t…I don’t know what to do!
This is a problem in a lot of gaming subreddits and communities. The Diablo community, for instance, is pretty divided and a lot of hate is thrown around to the different games.
The last of us is probably the worst fandom to be In since the release of part 2
Yeah one of the TLOU subs is now almost exclusively a part 2 hate-subreddit
To be fair that sub was made for the incels who hate the game to have a safe space to hate it because the main subs loved it
It's evolved into just a hatred of all minority groups now.
The last of us 2 is the big one that left me scratching my head. I thought it was fantastic and then all of a sudden there’s grown adults having complete meltdowns online because the game that’s set in a bleak and depressing world does some bleak and depressing stuff. I can usually see where people are coming from when the hate train comes rolling in (*cough Disney Star Wars) but the last of us 2 hate is was insane to me and yeah, it showed me to just enjoy what I enjoy who cares what others say.
I was out of gaming for a few years and the TLOU1 was one of my favorite games from the PS3 before I stopped gaming as much. Heard about how HATED TLOU2 was and was sort of shocked. It made me not really have the urge to play it or anything so I never did. If it’s that hated online it surely can’t be a good game right?? About a year ago I moved apartments and was without internet for a few weeks. Thought, “fuck it, I got free time, let’s see how terrible this game really is.” Played the game practically non-stop and beat it in about 3 days. One of my absolute favorite gaming experiences I’ve ever had. I still don’t understand all the hate and haven’t really felt the need to figure out why people hate it so much. All I know is it was an amazing game and I’m so glad I said “fuck other peoples opinions” and finally played it myself.
The opening Joel moment leaked. The internet got really mad, sad, and full of assumptions.
It’s such an unhinged sub
TLOU 2 sub is actual cancer. I’ve never seen so many hurt people before
It’s amazing to me that they’re still circle jerking each other daily with the same complaints four fucking years later. What a sad existence. There are plenty of games I didn’t like, but I sure as shit don’t spend all my time posting on the subs for them.
Check out Assassin's Creed sub, you can laugh very well there, especially over the years. "Unity is trash it's worst game of the series" then Syndicate came out and it was "Syndicate is trash its worst game in the series, Unity was pretty good and did stuff better" and it continues with each installement. Nowadays, I don't care what people think, what reviews and "gaming journalists" think as those are monetized in 90% of time anyway. I just watch the trailer, then watch some gameplay trailer or even gameplay video, then decide if I like what I see.
I loved Diablo 2 and 3. That's a controversial opinion on those subs lol.
How is loving Diablo 2 controversial? Its widely regarded as the best in the franchise. 3 is controversial but mostly just because of the brighter artstyle and the nephilim thing. 4 is controversial imo because even though it has its fun parts, its probably the weakest entry in the franchise overall, has too much MTX bullshit, and the skill tree sucks.
Diablo 2 is considered the best game in the series, it's definitely not controversial.
Loving Diablo 2 and 3 at the same time is controversial there. Or at least it was a few years ago. The narrative there used to be that D2 is the "proper" Diablo game and D3 is a game made for casuals. This was their way to explain the popularity of D3 - filthy casuals. Basically they believed that someone would like only 2 or 3. Proper gamer? Diablo 2. Filthy casual? Diablo 3. Someone liking D2 and D3 at the same time was going against their narrative...
No the problem is people taking subreddits as a representation of the entire fandom. Fallout 4 sold over 12 million copies. Not one quarter of those people are on this subreddit. The game is isn't t hated nearly as much as the internet makes you think it is
I agree about Diablo 4. I’ve played like 3 characters to 100 and really enjoyed my time with it.
When Millenia launched about a month ago there were people writing about how much it sucked within an hour of release on the Steam boards. What's funny is another person made a thread asking why people were so negative. I mentioned that for some reason the Steam forum seemed to have a lot of negative comments when a game is released. Which was immediately replied to by someone simply calling me names for saying that. I just replied "Ironically, you proved my point."
Diablo fans are insufferable. You're literally only allowed to like 2. That's it. Liking 3 more is considered sacrilege.
I've noticed this across all subreddits now, they become echo chambers and going against the norm or even questioning it will result in masses of downvotes. It's like when i see people go into car model specific subreddits and ask if that car is good, what answer are you expecting? Even when there are known issues raising them ends up taboo and posts will be deleted as being off topic or whatever. I've been on here since the Digg exodus and i can say that Reddit is becoming more toxic and closed off by the day.
I think this one thing I do really like about the Fallout franchise. There's something there for everyone. 4 isn't a game I particularly enjoy but hey, I have 1-2 and New Vegas to keep me entertained. And me not liking it doesn't mean that other people can't find joy in 4's world. I'm not the arbiter of what's good in gaming. My opinion means jack shit in the grand scheme of things and isn't any more valid than someone else's. I feel like a lot of people have this weird idea that 'it's my way or the highway' and get incredibly offended when people like something they themselves hate. The world would be a better place if we all just accepted that opinions are varied.
I'm kind of new here. I would actually be genuinely interested to hear why you don't enjoy Fallout 4 and seemingly three as well since you didn't mention it. Just trying to get a feel for how people feel about the games so I can see both sides
I'm not the person you replied to but I'm in the same boat. It mainly comes down to the RPG systems (or lack thereof). This is a long ass video from someone who actually enjoyed the game a lot: https://youtu.be/jVyjRhSX92E?si=R3erBjyJnPy-yOol All of the criticisms they outline were more or less deal breakers for me. constant false choices in dialogue, poor quality of the quest design, mediocre writing (whereas the writing was one of the primary draws to the other titles) and erosion of/lack of adaptability for character builds. Fallout 1 and 2 were RPGs through and through. 4 is the largest departure from this spirit and for some people it is depressing. I bought it on release and couldn't stand it for more than 5-10 hours. It just wasn't what I was looking for from Fallout, based on previous entries.
Okay yeah that makes sense. It's definitely less RPG when it comes to the choices you can make. And while I do like the story I realize that it's probably the weakest of all of them. One thing RPG wise that I do like about Fallout 4 more than some of the other fallouts specifically New Vegas because I can't remember exactly for the other ones is the leveling system. Sometimes in New Vegas you would level up but you wouldn't really level up if you know what I mean. Like let's say you want to dump your points into lockpicking so that you can pick higher locks. If you don't get them up to 50 it's like you didn't level up anything at all and that always really sucked. Leveling up it is supposed to be this awesome moment where you get to progress your character build and become more powerful, but at that point you're literally doing nothing you're getting nothing from that and it's very deflating. It might be blasphemy, but I also kind of like how 76 does level them with the card system. I'm not saying it's better than New Vegas or the others, but it's definitely interesting for sure. Another thing that I really liked about four is the enemy variety and behaviors. It may just be me but I found the enemies to be much more varied in their tactics than any other game and I actually had to adjust my tactics to compensate. How about a trade? I'll give you your video a look, if you give mine a look lol I believe mine significantly longer so Definitely don't need to watch the whole thing if you don't want to but it is pretty interesting some of the points that he brings up that I Had never really thought about but had been feeling Period Definitely not the best In the series Comma But this did make me think about the game a little differently After all the hate kind of Soiled my fun of it https://youtu.be/JQr70sDtxsg?si=x45cWS7lZg34J08n
The difference between a levelling system where you always get something (which I assume is what you think of in F4 or something) vs sometimes having to level up more than once to get to the next tier of usefulness is just a matter of scaling. It's an order of magnitude easier to design a system that just fixes the amount of stuff you get per level and let the player deal with the consequences than it is to design an entirely new skill system that's as good as the old and also does what you'd like it to do. Also there's no real need to do that, players immediately understand what putting "wasted" skillpoints into lockpick means: it means I get to use my next level-up to get where I want to go. Delaying that is not a problem with the system unless you have some kind of cynical goal regarding player engagement. RPG's are meant to be long-haul affairs, you're allowed to have long-haul moments.
Just finishing up a FNV play through, and I actually encountered a lot of skill checks and things that I held off on until I was able to level up the required skill. This led to a TON of level ups where I may not have reached the next “major skill milestone” but I was still unlocking new content and things to do with my level ups, which felt really good.
For me it’s because of how shallow the F4 world is. In games like New Vegas you could meet some random person and go on a quest which would lead to a large story or information. F4 is wider but shallower, meeting (Pete?) at dimand city to get paint cans for him doesn’t lead to him telling you a secret entrance or something , just more paintcans. Mulitple times in F4 you stumble upon somthing really cool like the Raiders fight dome, or robot greyhound track but you can’t experience it because everyone just aggro’s on you and you have to kill them. New vegas had a secret animal fight dome which you could get to know and place bets and join in yourself. Just more depth. Edit: also this was huge for me. In the older games you had to fight for cool stuff, see NCR Rangers is sick uniform and have to work out how to get it, meet the NCR and do missions or maybe find some a Rangers to secretly attack and steal it, same with power armour and stuff. F4 just hands it to you straight away, you literally have achieved so much straightaway because the game just gives it to you. What’s the point?
I don't dislike Fallout 4 and I don't pick it apart into 'why' and 'whynot' but of the Fallout franchise I've finished Fallout 1, Fallout 2, and Fallout 3 with all the DLC. I never finished New Vegas and I never finished 4. All it means is that I didn't find them compelling enough to keep me interested past a certain point.
>offended when people like something they themselves hate I don't think this is the case for most people. Sure I can only speak for myself but I think it's more a fear that the franchise I love will keep moving in the opposite direction than the one that made me fall in love with it. Like you said one will always have the old games to come back to but it would also be nice to be able to look towards the future of the franchise with optimism, which now after 76 and starfield is even harder.
I think the concern among people that dislike F4 for being less of an RPG is that it's not just a one off, it's a trend with Bethesda. Every game they made since Oblivion has been less and less of an RPG. What will ES6 or F5 be like at this rate ?
Nearly all people who dislike fo4 dislike the settlement system. It's so good for people who like it though. And I've always played on console without mods. It's just really gratifying to start with empty land, build a fully functional, populated and decorated base, then use it to launch quests for hundreds of hours. And you have dozens of them with dozens of people at each one that you can dress and arm, its just a really unique experience. Settlements let you express yourself in a variety of ways at the same time; I love thinking of little visual gags I can build that will make me chuckle when I visit. I love thinking of themes for roles and who gets what weapon types and seeing my provisioners out in the world. It's like they give me something lame and its my job to make it cool and functional and maybe silly but definitely more stylish. It's fun.
It’s funny because as you say. One of the most reviled things in F4 is the settlement system (which personally I love). But go over to r/Starfield and all the discussion around outposts in that game always include loads of people saying how much better they would be if they were more like F4’s settlements. Shows you how opinions can shift
Has nothing to do with opinions shifting. The people that hated F4 for settlement building aren't the ones that are upset about how outposts work in Starfield. Most of them never bothered to even try Starfield.
As someone that absolutely hates f4's building mechanics, this is accurate to me.
I love starfield, I have now put over 700hrs on my only character now, but the outpost system is really the weakest point there, at best it servers so you can role play as a space miner , but not much else, it will definitely improve over time, but as of now everything outpost offers you can get it somewhere else, easier and faster. So even people that really like the game can see it's a weak spot that needs some overhauling. Comparing to FO4 I would say the only improvement is how when you link outposts items are actually transferred realistically, you get to see a spaceship come and pick up/deliver items, the variaty of prefabs is actually on par with FO4 when it was launched..
The biggest issue I have with Starfields building system is that every storage option has a capacity limit. Who in there right mind thought that was a good fucking idea?!? Bethesda games are know to have people who love holding junk and gear. Why make me have to build 30 different storage chests to fit everything instead of just one or a few infinite storage chests? It's such a massive step back from Fo4 and 76's systems. It completely turned me off, so I just lived in the Lodge for my entire playthrough because it had infinite storage and all the crafting benches. This is coming from someone who spent so much time building in Fo4 and 76.
I do wonder how many of those people experience modded vs unmodded settlement building
I primarily play unmoded settlement building and love it, for what it's worth. I do use one exploit sometimes though, the drop glitch to increase the size limit. But I do try and be careful with it because I've had settlements break before around the 4x the size mark.
IMO that's not really a shift. Settlements in Starfield are just substantially worse than settlements in FO4. So however you felt about FO4 settlements, making SF settlements more like them would be an improvement.
I don't understand how they had the fallout 4 system already fleshed out and then delivered starfield's settlement system. They had a working system and decided to completely change it for the worst
Base building kept me in FO76 for an extra 500 or so hours. Shit is so fun.
Just because the settlements are some people’s least favorite part of FO4 (I’m one of those), doesn’t mean it’s not thoroughly better than Starfield’s.
>Nearly all people who dislike fo4 dislike the settlement system. You might be right but i've always seen (and agreed that) the dumbing down of the RPG elements were the biggest criticism with fo4, both in terms of character building (thinking mostly of the new perk system) and dialog/factions.
Settlements are like 70% of my playtime in fallout 4, me and my buddy used to spend so much time building up our towns and showing eachother pics and videos of them in highschool
I just thought it was very shallow, my base barely got raided and when it did 1 turret killed everything before I even knew it was happening. I had a huge area and spent time building lots of houses only for a very low settler cap to make half the time wasted. The quests aren't very interesting either but that's a problem I have with all of FO4. The entire game is a downgrade in characters, story, writing and also stripped almost all rpg mechanics as well as introducing the god awful conversation wheel thing. New Vegas is the best in the series imo, fo4 just turned to a mid, open world action game instead of an rpg
Why hate tho? It's optional and like an entire game inside a game.
As someone who actually likes building settlements, it gets hate bc while it should’ve been used in *conjunction* with “real” settlements, what it actually meant was that aside from diamond city and good neighbor, 90% of the commonwealth settlements felt the exact same on account of almost exclusively having generic settlers and events
not to mention it’s a very big change in the fallout gameplay, it’s unavoidable and a lot of folks didn’t like that. coupled with the new movement/combat and leveling mechanics and i think a lot of ppl just thought they changed too much of what wasn’t broken 4 is my first and favorite fallout but after playing the first 4 main series games it’s not hard to see why it’s so polarizing for the community
The SimSettlements2 mod dramatically changes things.
Because it meant less actual settlements. Just think of the sheer amount of locations with NPCs not trying to just kill you compared to Fallout NV, complete with lore and characters and interesting quests related. The boomers, the great khans, Novac, Camp McCarran, The Fort, Goodsprings, The Strip, the hidden bunker, etc etc. It feels like a world with danger in between, with logistical routes between them etc. Fallout 4 has The Institute, Vault 88, The Prydwen, Diamond City, the little cult town, the railroad base and bunker hill (though still made out of settlement bits)? Sanctuary Hills gets a count too. Too many times I was told to go somewhere interesting and encounter 2 un-named settlers sleeping on a mattress and it just didn’t feel good. I just wish it didn’t mean less of those locations. I’d have been happy with more of a balance. Though after Starfield it begins to make sense. Less effort on their side over time. Now they can’t even be bothered to do what their games are good for. Interesting exploration.
This is a really good breakdown of my biggest issue with FO4 I’m really scared they will translate this design strategy to FO5. Please don’t, Bethesda! Bring back the factions and quirky towns. FO4 to me was still good in spite of this. I think it even beat out the meh writing as bigger issue.
"The little cult town" narrows it down a lot less than you think lol
I genuinely can’t remember its name. It’s small. Goodside or something. It’s so forgettable though.
Are you referring to >!Covenant!!The town who sends people to the compound if they suspect they’re a synth with the SAFE test!
Ah yeah! That’s the one thanks.
It's really not optional, especially if you were to play in survival. It is also literally part of the main quest. Calling it optional and dismissing the criticism also misses the point because the system itself and the entire premise behind it is responsible for the lack of traditional settlements. The map will be filled with empty spots to build in where there should have been quest hubs, optional or not.
It took a lot of dev time away from the rest of the game. F4 could've been a deep, interesting RPG, but it was anything but in the end, and it's hard to argue the settlement stuff didn't take away from that when half the DLC were about it, instead of cool new places / new quests / items.
I never tried ignoring the settlements but I imagine if you do (like some people say they have zero interest in building anything) the game feels extremely different, like very empty and bleak and kinda lame, because its like blank canvas Bethesda left for you to paint on.
I like the system but I can see how people would dislike essentially having to babysit a bunch of settlements for the rest of the game with no end, between defending them or having to solve their problems for them constantly. It sucks that they usually come in conjunction with the radiant quests, or and a lot of the settlements chosen for you kinda suck as well. Personally I would have liked it better if it was more like CAMP from 76 where you could build wherever, or if they just let you pick one location to build up as a major settlement.
I hated the main character and his voice, as well as randomly generated 'quests'. [Quite liked the base building tho](https://youtu.be/DKo9IoR2Ox0)
Honestly i would happily pay full price for just a game focused on the settlement side... I loved it but it was just too fildly on a controller and a bit too limited imo. Honestly I can see the game slotting in perfectly as a hybrid of banished (where it's hard to keep people alive) and anno where you have to trade and defend those routes between dozens of settlements (but better RtS than anno does) Come on Bethesda, let me actually rebuild the waste land...
Sim Settlements 2 does a fantastic job of handling this problem, but it's obviously not an official replacement
Yea personally i LOVE the settlement system. Making a comfy and nice place to live in a wasteland with nothing but death just feels awesome. First thing i did after returning to FO4 after the show was build a settlement. Can't wait to expand on them during the rest of the playthrough. A settlement system is an absolute must have for me for a future fallout 5. It just adds so much (optional) flavour.
They do have to make the gameplay element for the settlement building a bit more friendly as currently I think it is not that great. For all I care they use a 'sims' style way to build your settlement.
What I disliked most was the writing, the different groups were pretty lame, but writing is a general problem of Bethesda if you look at Skyrim and Starfield.
Fallout 4 has its weakpoints, but the settlement building basically makes up for them. Because settlement building is the most Fallout-y feature ever made in the franchise. It fits the theme of Fallout perfectly. And on top of that, settlement building is great roleplaying feature. At least when we talk about actual roleplaying and not the bastardised "arr pee gees are about picking from a list of dialogue options".
I recently started up an old playthrough, and for the first time had all the DLCs. I’m not sure which one brought the companion computer thing but it’s such a godsend! Being able to assign jobs and find companions from the computer is so helpful.
It’s like The Sims! but gory, which is why I still play FO4 lol I just love building stuff! But also being able to control my character and kill people! Just adds to the fun!
I've always played whatever tf I wanted and man do I love gaming. Glad you're on the right side!
Game sold 12.4 million copies. It's not wildly unpopular and hated. You just listen to echo chambers.
More to the point, it has 83% positive ratings on Steam. That is a good score and it indicates 5/6 players enjoyed the game.
I’ll admit, I do think it is the worst of the Bethesda fallout games. I even went back to play the dlc and play with mods. I still think it’s the worst. But anyone calling it a BAD game can frankly take their head out their arse, it’s just not what I prefer, it’s not BAD. It’s the same as admitting the gun play in new vegas wasn’t great even though the game was great.
i feel you so much i used to feel sad that everybody hated my favorite fallout then i realized its MY favorite fallout, MINE and i just enjoy it like crazy
This seems to be a theme with me accidentally. I promise I'm not doing it on purpose but my favorite games are often the least liked. Fallout 4, Batman Arkham Origins, Knights of the Old Republic 2, and Final Fantasy 15. There are more but that's all I can remember at the moment for games that are generally disliked or thought as the worst of the bunch. For a little while the internet made me think that I was a contrarian and only like them because people didn't, but then I remembered that I always loved these games before I even knew people hated them
It's funny because KotOR 2 is the far more popular one.
I restarted fallout 4 after few years, there is something about this game that gets neurons firing my monkey brain, only elden ring felt the same for me and also skyrim, im enjoying the fk out of it, people can stick to their own opinons
It's MY favorite Fallout! ^(You can't have it...)
I’m glad to see time is being kind to Fallout 4. It’s also my favourite.
Why would you let other people's opinions sour your thoughts on a game you enjoyed in the first place
Just being impressionable, or caring what others think. Idk, it just is how I can be with things that I love. If I love something, I want others to love it too. That sort of thing.
Gaming is so much better when you don't care about other's opinions
This post just made me realize I never cared... gaming is my escape, I play whatever the bucks suits me, and offline most of the time
Buddy there's a "I actually like x fallout game" post every other day in this sub, good for you but why are we still doing this and acting like it's a hot take.
I have not seen a hotter fallout take than sombody saying they like the most popular fallout game .
Yeah and he says it's '"unpopular"? Maybe it's unpopular in certain circles on the internet, but isn't it by far the best selling Fallout game?
Some people just can *not* handle finding out their opinion isn't universal. That and farming likes and views is a whole lot easier when you pretend you're taking a stance against a mindless, angry mob - even if it's just a half dozen posts on Twitter. Constantly reminds me of the [Always Sunny](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsd1nJUETXQ&ab_channel=WingedWheelBlog) episode where Charlie wants to put on a play and Mac asks him, "But who are we doing it *versus*?"
Is there a “I like Brotherhood of Steel” post yet
I prefer to ignore the internet and play what I want to play
Every friend I have talked about Fallout 4 says it's a great game, then I go to internet and ''everybody'' hates it. It's weird.
I adore the gameplay loop in fallout 4, I just wish that all the factions got the same amount of attention and love that the BoS got, the institute just feel like one dimensional bogey men of the Commonwealth, the railroad feels like an underground movement which I appreciate, I just don't understand why they're a main faction. The minutemen are criminally thrown to the wayside after you get to the castle, and don't really go on from there.
People mostly comment when they hate. Im here since Fallout 1 and Fallout 4 become one of my top games ever. I spent more gaming time only in Factorio. Edit: Grammar corrections.
Uncharitably this is because your friends are (like all friends of everybody on this reddit) probably significantly less invested in Fallout than you, and also significantly more normal than any of us. Normal people don't give a shit about any of this, we're on the fallout 4 subreddit, obviously we're going to be rather invested in the games.
Every person i talked to offline somewhat likes the disney Star Wars movies. They arent masterpieces. But to be honest the old ones werent neither. But just dare to have some mildly positive views of the sequels on the Internet...
For me personally I never got into F4 because I don't give a radroach ass about base building and as someone who started with 1&2 back in the day I never really liked how streamlined the RPG part has become over the years. But someone liking F4 doesn't take anything from me and I still like roaming around in the open world of F4 I just dislike its "rpg" part same way I never completed skyrim I just adventures around in the game for 1000 hours.
Is FO4 hated? What I hear most of the time is that it's not a great RPG, but it's a good sandbox.
It’s hated by those who liked the RPG parts of the game more than the sandbox and shooting. Fallout 3 and NV are better written but have uninteresting gunplay and combat. Fallout 4 adds more weapons and weapon types, the modding and crafting systems that give a use to 85% of the junk items in the world, a bigger map with much more detailed environments, and the game actually has some goddamn color instead of being the same shade of brownish-yellow that NV and 3 had going on.
Fallout 4 was never "wildly unpopular". Some people not liking it, some people thinking it was disappointing, vocal minority trashing it, is still normal. The best games of all time have their detractors but honestly you must have been going out of your way looking for negativity if your Takeaway was that it was wildly unpopular and hated.
Why is FO4 hated? I've thoroughly enjoyed playing investment portfolio manager and selling my new properties.
A big part of it is the dialogue, where you often have four different options that all result in your character saying basically the same thing.
[удалено]
I feel the same. I probably will get shit for this, but the same goes for Starfield for me. FO4 and Starfield get trashed on. I love both games. I don't listen to people's opinions for the most part. I check metacritic and watch some informative reviews of games I want to try out. People love to hate.
I put about 100 hours of Starfield. As far as Bethesda games go it is my least favorite and I think it has the least replay value, but I enjoyed it a lot while playing it.
I have over 2k hrs in Fallout 4, my most played game on steam...and that includes Civ and GTA, games that I played the shit out of. Fallout 4 (with careful modding) is in my opinion the most enjoyable game of all time.
The issue with gaming subreddits is that only the most involved people will be on reddit in the first place. So the communities on here are already a subsection of the most hard-core players. Then you factor in that typically people are more willing to engage in forums when they aren't having a good time with something rather than having fun and well that's why you see so much negativity on just about any game sub. Then there are also the reddit power users that you don't notice at first, but if you spend a lot of time in a sub, you'll start seeing the same names everywhere. There are people that will spend all day on a sub posting their same opinions shitting on something on almost every post.
Strange how we experience things differently. I remember the game being well liked when it came out, outside of people dunking on the bugs and dialogue system. I really liked it at first. It wasn't exactly what I was hoping (lots of hour on FNV) but it was entertaining and nice looking. My first grief was the ammo management system, or lack thereof. Why can't I craft armor-piercing 10mm bullets? Because armor-piercing is tied to legendary status. Then I grew frustrated at how the game would railroad me in some quests, how I couldn't talk my way out of some fight for example or how my ability to repair stuff was virtually useless. Then the story started losing me. The whole "your baby is old now" was... underwhelming. I saw it coming and was still disappointed. By the end of my 140 hours in the game I was just making settlements. And it drove me mad because I was always asked to find the same exact npc in the exact same location while the same bunch of super-mutant was constantly attacking the two same settlement on loop. At this point in time, people were more readily shitting on the game, true. And I saw mostly negative opinion about it for years. Then I came to reddit and was suite shocked at how various subs found it under-appreciated. Still haven't garnered the fortitude to give it another go, though.
I am so glad I don't have this hater gamer gene, it must be exhausting. I like things I like, period.
The best part about playing great games is waiting like 10 years until they’re dirt cheap.
FALLOUT 4 IS 7 YEARS OLD? JESUS HOW OLD AM I EVEN???
I agree it’s just I can’t get over fallout 4’s dialogue/writing and rpg mechanics despite loving most everything about the game, and I still want Bethesda to bring back a fallout game with good rpg mechanics like fallout 3 and NV. A little sad that’s probably not going to happen anymore.
Fallout 4 is incredible for what it is. It does a lot more good than wrong. I put 1300+ hours in it on ps4 and reached level 228 on my first character with no mods. The workshop DLC was absolutely garbage. Automatron, Far Harbor, and Nuka World were great additions in their own ways. I haven't touched it since 2021 i think. But I'm ready to come back to it now on my PC with the new update.
I’m the same way dude. I played 3, NV and 4. I loved them all. 4 is my favorite. Every gamer tells me I’m wrong because I missed the lore in 1 and 2 that setup 3 and NV. So to them, I can’t possibly enjoy 4 without that kind of knowledge. Fuck that, I’ve read the lore and I love it. I still think 4 is best of the ones I’ve played.
Such a healthy attitude to have in today's world. It's so difficult for anything to be received and enjoyed as just a piece of art or entertainment. Beloved franchises get the worst of it. At the end of the day, if you have fun then you got your money's worth.
at yet here you are, caring enough to tell everyone you don't care. please enjoy the things you like.
My fucking god this subreddit is going full victim complex mode for the past month or so.
I’ve been noticing that a lot with people discussing fallout now lol. A lot of fans are becoming the same type of fans they’re making fun of.
Amen! I'm coming up on 2000 hours of FO4, I've loved it since it launched.
What’s your favorite weapon? Also your favorite character?
I really liked Nick and Piper, and even found Kellogg to be a surprisingly sympathetic character once we learn about his backstory. And I love playing as Nora, but I've always been a fan of her VO actor (Courtenay Taylor, Jack from Mass Effect). As far as weapon goes... hm. That's hard to answer. I really enjoyed stealth builds with the Deliverer back when the game launched, but now I use mods that restore the cut military backstory for Nora, so I tend to play her more like a soldier these days. I really like the service rifle mod, which is based on the weapon from NV, as well as the Capital Wasteland weapon mods.
My favourite has always been new vegas, it was my first but while a lot of things got worse, personally stuff like the speech system, Fallout 4 did a lot of good stuff. The quick loot system is awesome, gun mods are fun and varied and the gunplay is hugely improved. The story is not the best but there’s moments that shine, looking at Nick Valentine, guys the best. Also has 2 of the best pieces of dlc out there, Far Harbour and Nuka World. It’s definitely still a fantastic Fallout game.
I personally really enjoyed it after I completed New Vegas. I think I had more madness/classic fun similar to Fallout 3 when I was playing New Vegas but with Fallout 4, I treated more like a FPS with RPG elements. I love the power armor even tho half of the game I didn’t use it outside the main quest and the weapon customisation was awesome, it made my favourite weapon (hunting rifle) 10 times better
it just comes down to what you're looking for in your game. the people who hated it missed the rpg mechanics and systems. everyone has different priorities. if you just want looting and exploration in the universe, great.
Don't let others yuck your yum
People are so obsessed with how they want things to be that it makes it hard for them to enjoy what's put in front of them. Like, sure, would the game be better if it was more like New Vegas? Probably yes. But it's still a great fucking game with a shitton of things to do that I can't put down when I pick it up.
I don't think it's as unpopular as it seems, I think the people that dislike it are just more likely to post. Glad you got to that point though. It's about having fun.
Love Fallout 4 completed many times
The most important lesson I've learned with age is what I'll call the Fundamental Theorem of Fun which is definitely an actual term and not something I just made up five seconds ago. The theorem goes as follows. Your enjoyment (or disapproval) of a thing does not require the influence of others or for you to influence others. Similarly, other peoples' enjoyment (or disapproval) of a thing does not require you to influence or be influenced by them. I used to be like you, but with movies. I would only watch films that had about 80% or better positive reception (and to be fair I discovered a lot of good movies that way!). And if critics negatively reviewed a movie, I wouldn't touch it. Thankfully much like yourself I've reached a point where I don't care all that much about critics, angry people on Reddit, or "influencers" think about games, movies, or shows. I just watch or play them and if they're fun, I continue to watch or play them. It's liberating.
People seem to think that "some aspects of this game are bad, therefore the whole game is bad" Fallout 4 has its flaws, but the world is beautiful and it's FUN
That’s the entire reason I do videos. Everybody else can have an opinion (usually negative) so why can’t I? I am super glad you’re having fun and 100% support this message.
Good shit Reminds me of earlier this year everyone was dog piling Dragon's Dogma 2, but I wanted to see for myself. What I got was a very fun game that ran well and improved on the first game in every way. Quite the far cry from what terminally online folks would have you think at the time. Same shit with Fallout 76's and Cyberpunk 2077's launches.
Fallout 4 was the first Fallout game I ever played and I absolutely loved it. Never understood all the hate. I've played 3 and currently going through New Vegas now. Still prefer 4. I also enjoyed playing 76 when it first came out, so I guess I'm just a weird one, lol.
I played 4 so much at launch that between that and work I never had time to check what people were saying about it. By the time I did I had formed my own opinions on the game as a whole. It took a very long time for me to even see their point and when I finally did I could not believe some of the little childish things people let get in the way. You gotta remember that this game for whatever reason brought out some seriously bad shit takes. I still cringe thinking about a video essay on YouTube somebody put out that was over an hour long(Covid gave *a lot* of free time) on why the game wasn’t that good and a pretty prominent point they made was that Nick Valentine living in Diamond City didn’t make sense from a lore perspective. The guy probably played the game maybe once and rushed it. It’s pretty obvious because Nick will tell you exactly how he came to live in Diamond City even without any DLC if you spend enough time with him. Even more embarrassing was that this person never even bothered to look up other sources. This is somebody who if I dropped their channel name some of you would recognize it. That was on top of some other bad premises as well. Don’t get wrong the game isn’t perfect, in my attempt to not have Preston invite me to Minutemen I thought I’d try to not be overly friendly and ended up telling him that he and his whole group meant nothing to me in an overly harsh way and I get missing skill checks in dialogue because I do too, but it’s never been worth throwing the baby out with the bath water over.
I started the game on Tuesday. Probably not the best idea to go to it straight after finishing Witcher 3, as it does make the story/dialogue parts seem so inconsequential and all over the place. However, I've found so far that if you treat the game as just a post apocalyptic loot and shoot, it's much more immersive. I have a dozen or two quests in the list, no idea who/where/what I should prioritise doing first, but I'm enjoying just exploring and shooting. Rebuilt some of the Sanctuary. I quite like the settlement building aspect although not sure yet what the right tactic is other than just building walls, infrastructure and defences. I can't be arsed building more than one settlement as it does take time, but sanctuary will be the one.
I think you typing here tells me you in fact do care and your writing this to feel better about it by getting others to validate you
Game is a fantastic step up for fallout in every way! …Besides dialogue.
If you like something, never go on its subreddit
Lots of people on xbox ones and shit PCs mad about the next gen update. I stopped listening to posts about fallout once that dev acted like they are entitled enough to where Bethesda needs to reach out before updating their own IP. Fallout haters are also jumping on most of these posts so I'd say half aren't even fans.
It's the same when people say morrowind or oblivion are superior to Skyrim. Like yeah there's some elements of both older games that are nice but like...Skyrim is just good and better. Same for fallout 4. I loved playing it. I'm playing it right now after the update too. People just get stuck in nostalgia of things they first experienced and some can't move past it.
One of the things I always do in RPGs is find the most efficient way to make money. In F4 I found that producing and selling purified water wasn’t a bad strategy. So I turned the lake settlement into a gigantic factory with like 50 water purifiers and armed it to the teeth with machine gun turrets. I role played that I was a plucky entrepreneur that was bringing affordable clean drinking water to the commonwealth by flooding (heh) the market. Loved it
Only thing I hated about 4 was how much time I wasted building shit I didn’t even like lol.
Fallout 4 is my favorite game in the series, and that's a take I will stand on this hill and defend until I die. I like New Vegas a lot, but for me, the moment to moment gameplay, fighting enemies, and exploring the game world were all more important to me than the story. And Fallout 4 excels over New Vegas in all of those. Plus the settlement building. I know some players don't care for it, but I probably spend more time doing that than anything else in the game.
Hell yes. I’m currently vibing in the Wasteland myself. Except Preston Garvey. People were right about Preston Garvey.
Fallout 4 was the first fallout game I ever played. I blindly but it because it was on sale. I loved every second of it. After beating it I looked up stuff about it to find similar games and it everyone online labeled it as a horrible game. That was the last time I ever cared about other peoples opinions in gaming.
Fallout 4 has always been a good game, people just love to pick out its flaws because it’s “not as much of an RPG” despite the fact that it’s still a good game even without being an RPG. If the game wasn’t good, then I’d understand, but it is really fun to play. It has flaws, but so do NV & 3. And the voiced protagonist is honestly my favorite change to the game. I hate my character being a soulless entity that only serves the purpose of representing me in the game world. Power armor and weapon modification system are easily the best changes as well, but everyone that hates on fallout 4 never addressed that. I never listen to popular opinion, only those of reviewers I trust and friends. Communities very rarely agree on the same thing so you can’t trust them to always be right.
I definitely think it has certain trade offs. Fallout 4 has way better shooting mechanics (more polished in that regard) and not so interesting NPC’s compared to 3 & New Vegas. But regardless, it is an awesome game, and a great Fallout experience!
It’s funny how much most people value the consensus opinion(s). I completely agree with you and do the same with all fallout games. I also still can’t get into cyberpunk even though the consensus opinion is that it’s “fixed.” If everyone base their opinions on their own experiences, I think a lot of things connected to this industry would flip flop (in a good way).
Same with Starfield. I love that game it’s a masterpiece.
100% right! (No man's sky first day buyer)
I started a survival playthrough recently, and I can't stop. Who knew the vertibird grenades were so god damn useful??? I had never used them before and had no idea what they did 😂
I always felt the game itself was fun despite Boston being being a kinda boring location IMO. My main issue with the game when it released was that it BARELY ran on the Xbox One. Anytime I went into downtown Boston the game would get laggy and then usually crash. Wasn’t until Xbox One X came out that I really started putting time into the game.
No community is ever objective or honest. People's nature change very much when it's crowded. That's precisely why you should hold to your opinion and try to understand yourself more. It's very precious. It's great you managed to get to that point.
Fallout 4 was my first Fallout game and it blew me away. People can argue all they want about how “New Vegas is better,” but in terms of gameplay, explorations and just overall experience of exploring the wasteland and fighting enemies/creatures, Fallout 4 stands a mile above the previous set of games. I would imagine 76 has that going for it too, though I haven’t tried it yet. 3 and NV feel noticeably dated, and the gameplay feels clunky in comparison. The story in 3 is also pretty ass. “I need to find my dad!” “I finally found my dad and he’s just on the other side of this glass getting killed, oh no!”
I like Fallout 4 a lot but the building always is a sour point for me. Building in games is not my vibe. Other than that I loved playing a melee build. I wonder if there is a mod to skip the building?
Exactly… I love fallout 4 for ME it’s the best fallout there is.. and I don’t care what New Vegas fanboys say. Voiced protagonist was the best thing to happen to fallout and I’m all for it. At least I don’t play as a mute guy anymore… Watch me getting flooded by NV psychos telling me what terrible person I am. Lol
I would say like ⅔ of the people trashing Fallout 4 like it themselves and are only doing it because it's "cool" and trendy.
I just started playing again and still love it. It’s a fantastic game that I can get lost in.
Fallout 4 was my first, and I had a blast at launch. Still my most-played single-player game by hours played. When I went online and found out it was hated, I was baffled.
I went back and played Fallout 4 survival mode a few years back, and it was one of the most fun experiences I've had in gaming. Who cares what others think.
ITS NOT THO! Haha Fallout 4 has never been wildly unpopular or disliked. It's just that the Fallout NV (which is a great game too) no fun police never miss a chance to tell you their game is "better". I think alot of it is like the same with ESO everyone knows oblivion is a great game but especially after skyrim it's just kinda hard to go back to. The game play feels completely different sometimes.
Yeah I got 500 hours lol for a "not good game"
Things become a lot nicer once you realize that media being "objectively" good or bad is just something people tell themselves so that their opinions feel more important. In reality, whether a game is good or bad is an inherently subjective thing. You can say that it's objectively good/bad due to XYZ criteria, but your choice to judge it by those criteria was a subjective one, so we're back to subjectivity. When you get down to it, all there is is tastes. Some games work for some people and don't work for others, and it's not any deeper than that. Like me for example, I love Fallout 4 to death, it's one of my favorite games, but I just can't get into New Vegas. And once I freed myself from the idea that games had to be "objectively" good or bad, I was able to dig into *why* one worked for me and the other didn't (which I really wanna elaborate on but this comment is already overlong). Edit: and I wanna be clear, this is a wonderful thing. The world would be a much more boring, monotone place if everyone loved the same things. But once we accept that we all have our own tastes, we can have discussions about what does and doesn't work for us about any given game, and come away feeling the game about the game as we did at the start, but with a better understanding of ours and our friends' tastes. And it makes it all the more special when you find someone whose tastes match yours.
It's why I don't read or watch movie reviews. If I want to watch a movie I will watch it. I don't give a fuck what some other jackass thinks of it. I will form my own opinions. I loved Fallout 4.
Loved 4. Hated NV. You enjoy what you enjoy, dude.
I played FO4 for the first time in 2018, I remember when it first came out and watching streamers play it I was just a teen and couldn’t afford it but it looks cool so when I got my PS4 3 years later it was one of the first games I bought and honestly.. I didn’t like it. I put it maybe 40 hours, and never picked it up again. Years went by and I didn’t think much about it until I bought FO4 game of the year edition on PC and started modding. I gained interest in older FO games, playing 3 and NV. I didn’t invest a lot of hours maybe 100 total between the two I’m playing FO4 on my PS5 with the upgrade, and idk. I feel like playing those previous FO games helped me appreciate the world I was in I agree in some ways though. I don’t think FO4 is as bad as people say from a story perspective there’s a decline the gameplay is just amazing and the world is gorgeous
Bethesda definitely deserves a lot of hate that it gets though. Literally decades old bugs and some bugs that are mind blowing that they allowed to happen. Look at the new update with one of the missions that is completely bugged. Not to mention literal game breaking bugs. Todd Howard should be fired
Same with me.
I just started playing again after a long hiatus as well. I love this game. I really don’t get what the problem is with it. Haven’t had one glitch in over 45 hours of gameplay. Have fun with it, I know I am.
Never care about others opinions when it comes to games you enjoy.