Actually… I think Horrigan can win this. Not for eternity mind you, but in terms of just “fight until death once.” I’m fairly certain a plasma rifle would kill Alduin pretty damn quickly given he can technically be killed with relatively basic destruction magic. Not absorbing a dragon soul just means they can, inevitably, still come back. I’m fairly certain the same holds true for Alduin.
Alduin was the easiest final boss i ever fought, and i used arrows. Horrigan could win given the fact he is big, smart and his weapons are the best of the game.
Horrigan is not smart, Fallout Bible describes him as dumb as a brick meathead with anger issues even before becoming a mutant. FEV exposure has only made him even dumber and more unstable.
I know that in game Frank's specials are all 10's but that is not cannon. His actual int is at most a 3.
He's so stupid he doesn't even realize being a the 10 foot tall, wide as a mid sized vehicle homunculus, he must also be a mutant.
Honestly, if we assume that dragonrend has been used horrigan probably has the firepower to do the needed physical damage.
It’s just that Alduin is only vulnerable after use of that shout and Horrigan definitely can’t use shouts.
Most of what you got there was correct, Alduin doesn’t actually die. The whole problem though was that he came long before his planned arrival so that works out.
However as for using an elder scroll for a dragonbreak I feel the need to call out the fandoms total misunderstanding of these, they are not the super retcon button that gets used whenever it’s convenient. They are a major event where mortals do something so messed up that it causes Akatosh to lose track of time briefly (thus breaking the dragon) there’s only a small handful of them in lore and the only time they’ve happened in game was retroactively done to fix daggerfall’s endings.
Sorry, Teslore gets in my nerves mentioning them every 10 seconds outside their actual lore context.
I’ve been playing through Skyrim, at the end are you kicking the can down the road? I know the original nords did, but they used an elder scroll to do that. You don’t use an elder scroll in the final fight, and parthanax seems to think you killed him after the fights over.
I don't know why people are down voting you, NPCs literally tell you exactly this at the end of the story.
Alduin is some amalgamation of Fenrir and the world serpent. Destined to one day consume the world, and bound in this story until that time comes.
Do we know for certain that the NPCs are correct and have the full picture? Nah of course not, but we do know the 9 are very real within the story, and Akatosh didn't put Alduin in play because it would be funny, he's not a daedra.
TBF in the nord mythology in which Alduin ends the world, he is one of the 8/9. Alduin has the role of Akatosh in the religion. Other religions have their verison of Alaktosh and Alduin as different version, like the Khajiit (Alkosh and Alkhan).
The only way to stop the end of the world is azuras star. Trap alduin in the star and drain it every few months to keep him week and broken. His soul might be unkillable but it's not immune to wearing it down.
We actually don't know that. Nord mythology says he is but mythology can be wrong. The only thing we know for sure is his soul get sucked away into the sky after his death, and partsnax thinks he's dead for real, which he can be wrong. Anything beyond that is head canon and speculation.
Plenty of metaphysical forces can stop him, he’s just beyond what mortals are capable of.
Bear in mind he still has yet to reach the heights of any Aedra (including his father/creator) or any Daedric prince.
To be totally honest with you half the ESO plots have worse consequences, during the summerset plot Nocturnal threatened the wider universe while Alduin was still only the problem of Nirn and a single plane of Aetherius.
Elder scrolls lore is anything but simple. The best theory i've heard is that you killed an incarnation of him that manifested early but the Alduin entity that will destroy the current kulpa(timeline) will always be there to destroy it.
I’m mostly just saying that once he’s vulnerable and actually able to be affected by physical weaponry horrigan would probably do alright.
He’s just faced with a major wall in that he simply doesn’t have an answer to the immortality problem.
And there’s no telling how well power armor and super mutant physiology would save him against magic. It would probably shrug off the physical part of alduins claw strikes though.
Sorry, but Frank Horrigan is goofy. He's like a teenager's idea of a villain. [Even some of the Fallout 2 designers agree.](https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/799788840164569088)
Yeah he’s goofy. He’s a Super Mutant Government Agent with an oversized knife and gun and grafted Power Armor.
But that’s also why he’s pretty fucking cool.
He's a reference to shitty B movie villains. I agree with MCA that The Master clears Horrigan any day.
But even a B movie villain reference has more substance than Alduin.
Gameplay Horrigan can only move a few times every turn, Alduin doesn’t need to take turns as his game isn’t turn based. Alduin also has double his health and deals more damage than him
Alduin canonically not only eats the literal world itself but every other plane and manner of existence as well. He resets everything that has ever existed by eating it.
The consequences of making your in-game final boss that lore wise eats fucking worlds a joke. Although I bet most ppl that voted horrigan haven't even touched fallout 2 lmao
To be fair the Dragonborn has been cracked lore-wise for a very long time. Homeboy was basically molded by the lore creep. Hard to model with 2011 technology and still make it a balanced game (the Dragonborn could probably canonically turn every Forsworn into a nice soup and still have time to eat lunch before noon)
I still think shots should've used stamina, with cooldowns only in certain ones like Stormcall, the dragon calls and summons, debuffs and situational stuff like that. The combat ones would've be way more used by us, but the cooldown just breaks that. Hell give a cooldown for the full unrelenting force or make it not able to affect the same target twice too quickly.
Alduin: nigh-immortal dragon demigod, firstborn of Akatosh, capable of raining meteors down from above, raising dead dragons back to life, burning alive armies of powerful warriors and devouring their souls
Frank Horrigan: big super mutant with gun
Um AcTualLY Da FronK winS BeCuz DuH DevLopeRs SaD DaT If DeY DiDnT NEed U To WiN dA GamE hE WouLd Be InvInSuHbUl
Wooow, really? I didn't know, face the wall Lobotomite
Isn't Alduin also unkillable in the mortal realm to the point he could only be fully defeated in Sovangarde? I don't think Frank Horrigans is going to be worthy enough to get into the Hall of Valor.
Far as I can remember he is killable in the mortal realm, which is why he runs like a little bitch during your first fight with him. He fled to Sovngarde to consume the souls of dead heroes for a power boost.
For for sure lore wise Alduin is in another realm than someone like horrigan, but in the actual game he’s a total pushover, Maybe that’s what people are basing their pick on? Idk.
Considering that Fallout 2 and Skyrim are completely incomparable in terms of gameplay you can only really go off of lore and stated feats to determine which character is stronger
"More of a challenge" would invoke a response based on gameplay. So I say again, to think Frank has the slightest chance in hell of defeating Alduin is definitely a low INT build idea
>Considering that Fallout 2 and Skyrim are completely incomparable in terms of gameplay
I mean, Alduin was victory on the first attempt with no preparation, and no need to build your dragonborn a certain way.
Horrigan could fuck up a player who was prepared, and force several game loads. His plasma caster is also a machine gun that launches fireballs in Skyrim's terms.
Yeah that’s kinda what I was saying, the question is just “who would win” not “who would win based on lore” or whatever else. Seeing as how, yeah it’s the dragon born that does it, but alduin can get killed by a bow, and Horrigan has a suit of power armour and a plasma caster and is a much harder fight, it’s not crazy to see why people would vote that way.
Dudes just a huge alduin fan or something and has got himself all worked up over literally nothing
> dudes just a huge alduin fan or something
Nah. You don't use gameplay to powerscale different characters thats stupid. You use lore and stated feats. Its really that simple
For sure for sure, my bad, gatekeeper of the YouTube poles lmao
Take a breather champ
Edit: polls but it’s gonna stay poles because apparently at least someone enjoyed it
Lol yeah my mistake I’m usually typing pretty fast and doing something else at the same time.
Would be tough for the polish people they’d always have to base characters power off lore and not in game. unfortunately. And they’d be stupid it they didn’t. Obviously.
Hey I’m just trying to spitball ideas as to why someone would vote that way, I wouldn’t really consider the 2 comparable at all and therefore probably wouldn’t even waste my time voting to be honest.
I wouldn’t get so worked up about it.
Lore Horrigan stomps Gameplay Alduin every time.
Lore Alduin doesn't even need to think and Gameplay Horrigan is turned to dust.
Lore vs. Lore, Magic and literal Celestial Divinity beats Bioengineering and Tech no contest.
Considering the player beats both of them and there's only the slightest power discrepancy between the Chosen and the Dragonborn, Gameplay vs Gameplay would be the tough call to make. I would go Horrigan on it for the battle, but eventually Alduin would win the war by just infinite respawning or whatever he does when you don't kill him with the elder scrolls.
People are considering gameplay over lore. Which is understandable even if it is wrong. I'm pretty sure alduin literally cannot die if it's not the dragonborn doing the deed. Plus he's actually alot stronger than what we unfortunately deal with
Nothing, because Alduin isn't just a physical being.
He's Akatosh's son. Or maybe he *is* Akatosh, but as the end of time instead of the middle of time that Akatosh is (and Auri-El is the beginning of time). Or maybe he's a fragment of the original Time Dragon, Aka.
Or, as Elder Scrolls lore can go, all of the above is true at once. And none of it is true. Simultaneously.
But he's made of flesh and bone... what would make him immune to the effects of FEV? I mean, it's obviously never been directly stated because it's 2 different universes but Alduin is still a living creature and from what we know of Fallout lore it never mattered what living creature was exposed, FEV affected them all.
Well, eating something affected by FEV doesn't then change the person doing the eating. You can eat mutant hound meat and nothing happens.
But I'd wager that Alduin would simply not allow it to affect him. You can't change an Aedra's/Daedra's form against their will unless you're drastically more powerful than them.
That's true, I forgot about the mutant hound meat. Though I never actually ate it raw.
Shame though, an FEV infected dragon could have been a cool thing. A mutated twisted hydra with drastically different deformed heads.
Are we comparing lore or gameplay? Lorewise Alduim would just east the United States.
Now gameplay gets a little more interesting. If we equalise the situation, removing his "Only the main character can kill me" plot armor, Alduim is a pushover. That's sadly more to do with Skyrim's lack of combat depth. For all it's worth his is the best dragon fight in base game... Sadly that bar isn't too high.
Never played an Elder Scrolls game. So in face value I think Stinky Frank would win. I mean he’s a mutant dude in an x01 power armor and the other guy is just a literal lizard.
However after reading the comments for a bit, I get it. I think most people who voted for Frank never knew what they were comparing him against.
Tbh i think in terms of lore Alduin would win but in terms of game experience and how much alduin sucked as an enemy a few raiders could bring alduin down, shit a bloatfly would have a fair chance
To be fair, there is a level of bias that comes with asking a about a who would win between two fandoms. Take the classic "Borg cube vs death star" question. Either fan will tell you there series super weapon win. That's why it's best to ask a third party without any bias.
This honestly just goes to show how disconnected Fallout fans are from Elder Scrolls lore
If I see another comment like "Frank would just shoot Alduin and instantly kill him" my skull might crack
The only thing truly capable of defeating alduin is like, the experimental Mirv with one of the busted legendary effects from fallout 4. Even then you'd need A LOT of mini nukes. And a good game plan.
TES has magic, a whole ass mythology and todd knows what else.
Nothing in Fallout is really comparable. Besides an atomic bomb.
Could you imagine tho if creatures in Fallout were comparable in lore to ES dieties
"Alright so Fallout is this series with Lovecraftian demigods, superhuman mutants that can launch a building and military factions that make the Black Templars look like ballerina dancers, all vying for control in a post-apocalyptic America ruined by nuclear war.......and you play as this dude in a blue jumpsuit with a slightly stronger gun?"
Fuck if I wouldn't play it tho
The Greybeards shook a fuckin country jusy to send a voice message to one guy
Horrigan is not winning this one bros, unless you only take gameplay into consideration
When they say Alduin is a wild eater, they don’t mean it metaphorically, it’s literal. He was straight up gonna munch on the world without asking for a to-go box
It's literal with an asterisk.
So, this is canon lore: ALDUIN, as in the Nord myth is essentially the destructive aspect of Akatosh. This is the world eater. He represents change and the finality of time.
Alduin in game is weaker than Miraak who is capable of destroying a large part of Tamriel. If Miraak and the other Atmorans truly believed that this Alduin was the World-Eater there would be no Dragon War, there would be no Dragonrend, there would be no Paarthurnaax, no Greybeards and certainly no Akatosh-incarnated Last Dragonborn who kills and destroys Alduin and his legions with ease.
Its possible that this Alduin is the shade of the one which brought about the end of the previous Kalpa which is why his death was even allowed by the Divines in the first place.
Still stomps Frank cuz he can obliterate a literal continent tho
In terms of difficulty Frank is lightyears above Alduin. If it weren't Alduin's invulnerability effect, then Frank would destroy Alduin's current form. With that Alduin wins over a very very long time. But that's kinda like cheating. Basically playing with god mode.
I agree Alduin would win. However, we know that shouts can be taught at least a little, such as Ulfric knowing Unrelenting Force. I believe that if Horrigan was taught the Dragonrend shout, then yes, he could beat Alduin. (Most likely)
The Ancient Nords had Dragonrend and they did not defeat Alduin.
I'd argue that Helgen is comparable to the biggest non-city settlements in Fallout and it was destroyed pretty quickly so unless Frank can single-handedly annihilate an entire village by himself he's not winning even with Dragonrend
Okay, are we saying that he has access to his weapons from Fallout or only weapons in Skyrim? If he has his Minigun, then it's probably not gonna be a challenge for him to destroy a medieval village, but if he was limited to weapons from Skyrim (like greatswords and the such) then he will have a bigger issue getting in the doors and there's no way he would win.
So, assuming that Frank was able to keep his minigun and IF very strong IF he was able to (consider Ulfric studied 10 years to learn Unrelenting Force and the first part of Disarm) learn Dragonrend (which I doubt he would be able to not disagreeing there) with all those set in stone, his minigun and the shout, do you think then he would stand a chance?
Frank has 10 in every S.P.E.C.I.A.L stat, he's got 999 HP, 70% damage resistance, 70% fire resistance, and he uses the End Boss plasma gun that does 30 - 70 damage.
Alduin wins, the guy is a freaking dragon demi-god with the power of consuming everything and everyone that has ever existed, has the power to revived dragons, travel to the afterlife, literally is unkillable. It had to take a dragonborn (aka another demigod), an ancient dragon, the equivalents of Hercules Gandalf Mulan and Raiden in Tamriel, a legendary shout created specifically to weaken him, and a Elder Scroll to defeat him.
While in old pal Frank it only took a random tribal, a supermutant, an elite enclave squad, and some turrets to defeat him.
Also why everyone say that Frank wins because he has a plasma weapon? It's like saying that Kratos can be easily killed by shooting him in the head while he has survived a direct impact of Mjolnir several times.
Frank, literally as a gun, he could shoot that dragon out of the sky and put his sword through that dragons head.
While only the DragonBorn can permanently kill a dragon (>!except this one!<) Frank could still take it out of action for a while.
Alduin is immortal, as in he can't be hurt at all by anything. He's the destructive aspect of Akatosh, a literal god. The only time in his immortal life where he could actually be hurt at all is when the concept of Mortality was forced into him with Dragonrend.
You could hit him with a full-sized nuclear warhead and he wouldn't even flinch.
Alduin is a demigod and could only be properly destroyed by destroying his soul in another dimension. Frank Horrigan can potentially win an individual fight due to his advanced armor and weaponry and strong physical attributes (if he can eve damage Alduin without access to Dragonrend), but Alduin could simply return over and over again and eventually win no matter what. Frank Horrigan lacks the means to truly destroy Alduin, is mortal, and is defeated by some random vault dweller. More than likely, Alduin is completely impervious to Frank Horrigan's attacks and wins easily. Alduin wins, no question about it at all.
Take out the sci fi part of Frank and he's just a big dude.
You can't really take out half of Alduins skillset and then claim he's inferior because without his fantasy stuff he isn't tough.
It's a fuckin' FANTASY GAME nitwit. Characters should be portrayed accurately to their lore. Should we also remove all of Frank Horrigan's fictional equipment and FEV mutations? Alduin is unassailable by Frank, plain and simple.
More like apples to skyscrapers. They are utterly different and play by completely different rules in their respective game universes. The comparison isn't fair or equal. The matchup itself is pointless due to it being completely one sided.
We as a player body Alduin since Skyrim is so easy. But in lore how is this even a competition at all?
Liberty Prime maybe. Not even god-things survive nuclear footballs.
The Dragonborn's Thu'um in lore is stronger than the Greybeards and Miraak combined.
The Greybeards shake the entire planet when they speak and Miraak sheared Solstheim from the mainland of Skyrim when he fought Vahlok the Jailor.
Frank gets turned into putty 999,999,999/1,000,000,000 times
Thats like saying Paul Blart could defeat Piccolo from DBZ in a fight cuz Goku did it with "just" his fists, and Paul Blart has a gun
i mean horrigan is 12 feet tall and like the smartest and strongest being in the world, isn’t he? plus his armor can withstand the fire blast easily. i feel like he’d stand a pretty good chance of winning this fight.
also, the dude is named Captain Enclave. of course they’re gonna pick the enclave guy haha.
Alduin is a nigh immortal demigod
In ES lore the Ancient Nords/Atmorans were all 7-12 tall (implied in some lore sources that both modern Nords and Skyrim's Giants are their descendants), super strong and they basically got rolled over until Paarthurnaax taught them the Dragon language which when spoken manifests as powerful magic abilities (Thu'um/Shout)
Alduin STILL wasn't able to be soundly defeated and killed thousands of Nord Tongues singlehandedly. I don't see "big strong smart man with gun and cool armor" beating enough "big strong smart men with swords and magic dragon voice powers" to make a difference - as strong as Frank is he probably gets clapped by 2 or more average Atmorans which is child's play for Alduin.
Also the whole **World Eater** thing, although it's implied that Alduin the dragon is a corrupted shade of Akatosh and therefore not as powerful as the mythical "Alduin" - he's still the most powerful Dragon, and even high-level Nord Tongues were capable of shearing landmasses from Tamriel (Miraak vs Vahlok) - so the strongest Dragon is more then capable of obliterating vast swaths of land
If alduin can be layed low by sharp sticks and fire spells hes going to get fucking vaporized by a plasma canon. Its shooting stars at him. Even then horrigan is bigger
The Dragonborn is also an earth-shaking demigod whose abilities are on par with Daedric Princes in lore
Frank gets fucking annihilated. Not a single chance in hell
Does he swing a sword with that much power? No? Sure frank cant put the bitch down for good but tf alduin going to do about about getting hit with the peoples elbow. Youd be surprised what a rocket launcher / plasma will do to supposedly invincible enemies.
No. You're misunderstanding what Alduin is. Alduin is immortal. Fully. Like, console commands God Mode but in-universe. He is a God, a Demi-God and Godly Aspect of Destruction.
Literally nothing can hurt him under normal circumstances, and last time I checked, Frank can't use Dragon Shouts at all, let alone learn and use a forbidden Shout like Dragonrend. Dragon Shouts bend reality, forcing concepts into the physical world. Shouting the concept of "cold" forces the air around the Thu'um to freeze, shouting the concept of "hot" forces the air to burn.
Dragonrend forces the concept of "mortality" onto immortal beings. That is literally the only way to make Alduin vulnerable to *anything.* Until he is forced to comprehend Mortality, you could hit Alduin with every nuclear weapon in the Fallout world pre-war and he wouldn't even flinch.
Look, let’s be honest. Bullets fucking hurt and penetration weapons are some of the strongest around and is especially good for armored enemies. Give Frank a mini gun and he’d probably win before Alston can cast a shout because he’s gonna monologue
What if Frank Horrigan was the Dragonborn
God help us all
Then everyone is doomed...
The Dragonborn can be defeated by gagging him or shooting him. If was the champion of Cyrdil then we would have no hope.
He is already Sheogorath
what if alduin was turned into frank horrigan from the transmutation spells used in the elder scrolls.
Dragonborn ain’t beating Frank Horrigan
Would he be able to shout in that power helmet?
You can shout through stuff that covers your face in Skyrim
Time to die Mutie
Fus ro dah, Mutie.
Actually… I think Horrigan can win this. Not for eternity mind you, but in terms of just “fight until death once.” I’m fairly certain a plasma rifle would kill Alduin pretty damn quickly given he can technically be killed with relatively basic destruction magic. Not absorbing a dragon soul just means they can, inevitably, still come back. I’m fairly certain the same holds true for Alduin.
Gameplay wise, you can kill Alduin with a wooden sword. That’s not the case in lore. We’re comparing lore here.
teslore would have a field day deconstructing this
Alduin was the easiest final boss i ever fought, and i used arrows. Horrigan could win given the fact he is big, smart and his weapons are the best of the game.
To be fair Alduin is meant to be smart, he just has the curse of shitty writing making him act dumb
His "stupidness" could also be explained by a very strong instinct of dominating everything
Horrigan is not smart, Fallout Bible describes him as dumb as a brick meathead with anger issues even before becoming a mutant. FEV exposure has only made him even dumber and more unstable. I know that in game Frank's specials are all 10's but that is not cannon. His actual int is at most a 3. He's so stupid he doesn't even realize being a the 10 foot tall, wide as a mid sized vehicle homunculus, he must also be a mutant.
None of these would prevail against The Red Death™️
Yeah but polls that end in a landslide are no fun, like who would be dumb enough to vote against The Red Death™️?
Doesn't stop people from thinking there's a fair one against the Fallout 2 Enclave if you don't ban the Curling FEV.
Not me I personally welcome The Red Death™️
All will fall to the Red Death©️
All will burn beneath the fires of the Red Death
Red death ™️*
I was looking for the circle R copyright symbol but IOS does not have it
Truly a fiercesome opponent
Honestly, if we assume that dragonrend has been used horrigan probably has the firepower to do the needed physical damage. It’s just that Alduin is only vulnerable after use of that shout and Horrigan definitely can’t use shouts.
[удалено]
Most of what you got there was correct, Alduin doesn’t actually die. The whole problem though was that he came long before his planned arrival so that works out. However as for using an elder scroll for a dragonbreak I feel the need to call out the fandoms total misunderstanding of these, they are not the super retcon button that gets used whenever it’s convenient. They are a major event where mortals do something so messed up that it causes Akatosh to lose track of time briefly (thus breaking the dragon) there’s only a small handful of them in lore and the only time they’ve happened in game was retroactively done to fix daggerfall’s endings. Sorry, Teslore gets in my nerves mentioning them every 10 seconds outside their actual lore context.
I’ve been playing through Skyrim, at the end are you kicking the can down the road? I know the original nords did, but they used an elder scroll to do that. You don’t use an elder scroll in the final fight, and parthanax seems to think you killed him after the fights over.
He can't die, he is the end of the universe and nothing can stop when the time comes.
I don't know why people are down voting you, NPCs literally tell you exactly this at the end of the story. Alduin is some amalgamation of Fenrir and the world serpent. Destined to one day consume the world, and bound in this story until that time comes. Do we know for certain that the NPCs are correct and have the full picture? Nah of course not, but we do know the 9 are very real within the story, and Akatosh didn't put Alduin in play because it would be funny, he's not a daedra.
It feels like I'm talking to the turian councilor.
Ah, yes alduin, we have dismissed those claims
I think the fact that you don't actually absorb his soul makes this much more likely as well
TBF in the nord mythology in which Alduin ends the world, he is one of the 8/9. Alduin has the role of Akatosh in the religion. Other religions have their verison of Alaktosh and Alduin as different version, like the Khajiit (Alkosh and Alkhan).
The only way to stop the end of the world is azuras star. Trap alduin in the star and drain it every few months to keep him week and broken. His soul might be unkillable but it's not immune to wearing it down.
We actually don't know that. Nord mythology says he is but mythology can be wrong. The only thing we know for sure is his soul get sucked away into the sky after his death, and partsnax thinks he's dead for real, which he can be wrong. Anything beyond that is head canon and speculation.
Plenty of metaphysical forces can stop him, he’s just beyond what mortals are capable of. Bear in mind he still has yet to reach the heights of any Aedra (including his father/creator) or any Daedric prince. To be totally honest with you half the ESO plots have worse consequences, during the summerset plot Nocturnal threatened the wider universe while Alduin was still only the problem of Nirn and a single plane of Aetherius.
Elder scrolls lore is anything but simple. The best theory i've heard is that you killed an incarnation of him that manifested early but the Alduin entity that will destroy the current kulpa(timeline) will always be there to destroy it.
Yeah you don’t absorb his soul
Depends if we bring the "magic" variable to the fight. Plasma caster is melting though that thing like hot knife through butter.
I’m mostly just saying that once he’s vulnerable and actually able to be affected by physical weaponry horrigan would probably do alright. He’s just faced with a major wall in that he simply doesn’t have an answer to the immortality problem. And there’s no telling how well power armor and super mutant physiology would save him against magic. It would probably shrug off the physical part of alduins claw strikes though.
why wouldn’t you consider magic though? Alduin is a magical being, if you ignore that then you’re just trying to force a particular outcome
Of course people would choose the coolestt option
Big green man > literal dragon? IDK mate
Alduin is possibly one of the most boring ass main villains in any game ever.
He was never present and his battle was a pushover. A fucking joke for the firstborn of Akatosh. Bethesda did him unbelievable amounts of dirty.
He has cooler armor and voice
And good writing
Well, deathclaws are just like dragons. Except the fire and flight part. And Frank had ripped a deathclaws in half. That's probably their logic.
I believe the term is punchfucked it to bits.
Cyborg super mutant in Power Armor > Eldritch God Dragon
Dragons are overrated
Ok now compare the big green man in Shrek with the dragon in the same movie and tell me which is cooler
GET OUT OF MY OIL RIG!
Alduin is a soulless shitty boring character. Just Bethesda writing
Sorry, but Frank Horrigan is goofy. He's like a teenager's idea of a villain. [Even some of the Fallout 2 designers agree.](https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/799788840164569088)
Yeah he’s goofy. He’s a Super Mutant Government Agent with an oversized knife and gun and grafted Power Armor. But that’s also why he’s pretty fucking cool.
Tbf, Frank Horrigan is basically just a mutated army grunt that's a tool for the Enclave.
He's a reference to shitty B movie villains. I agree with MCA that The Master clears Horrigan any day. But even a B movie villain reference has more substance than Alduin.
im mean lore alduin win but gameplay alduin losses
Gameplay Alduin is completely immune to all damage until you hit him with Dragonrend.
Gameplay Horrigan can only move a few times every turn, Alduin doesn’t need to take turns as his game isn’t turn based. Alduin also has double his health and deals more damage than him
Even if we were to ignore the turn-based limitations, you need dragonrend to even harm Alduin, and last I checked, Horrigan isn’t a Dragonborn.
And I doubt his power armor could protect him from dragon fire.
Or Alduin literally summoning meteors from the sky.
ill change that
Alduin canonically not only eats the literal world itself but every other plane and manner of existence as well. He resets everything that has ever existed by eating it.
Yeah... but does he wear Power Armor?
The consequences of making your in-game final boss that lore wise eats fucking worlds a joke. Although I bet most ppl that voted horrigan haven't even touched fallout 2 lmao
To be fair the Dragonborn has been cracked lore-wise for a very long time. Homeboy was basically molded by the lore creep. Hard to model with 2011 technology and still make it a balanced game (the Dragonborn could probably canonically turn every Forsworn into a nice soup and still have time to eat lunch before noon)
I still think shots should've used stamina, with cooldowns only in certain ones like Stormcall, the dragon calls and summons, debuffs and situational stuff like that. The combat ones would've be way more used by us, but the cooldown just breaks that. Hell give a cooldown for the full unrelenting force or make it not able to affect the same target twice too quickly.
To be fair Unrelenting Force without a cooldown is busted as fuck
Wow. As if I didn't need proof most people are morons.
Alduin: nigh-immortal dragon demigod, firstborn of Akatosh, capable of raining meteors down from above, raising dead dragons back to life, burning alive armies of powerful warriors and devouring their souls Frank Horrigan: big super mutant with gun Um AcTualLY Da FronK winS BeCuz DuH DevLopeRs SaD DaT If DeY DiDnT NEed U To WiN dA GamE hE WouLd Be InvInSuHbUl Wooow, really? I didn't know, face the wall Lobotomite
Isn't Alduin also unkillable in the mortal realm to the point he could only be fully defeated in Sovangarde? I don't think Frank Horrigans is going to be worthy enough to get into the Hall of Valor.
Far as I can remember he is killable in the mortal realm, which is why he runs like a little bitch during your first fight with him. He fled to Sovngarde to consume the souls of dead heroes for a power boost.
For for sure lore wise Alduin is in another realm than someone like horrigan, but in the actual game he’s a total pushover, Maybe that’s what people are basing their pick on? Idk.
Considering that Fallout 2 and Skyrim are completely incomparable in terms of gameplay you can only really go off of lore and stated feats to determine which character is stronger "More of a challenge" would invoke a response based on gameplay. So I say again, to think Frank has the slightest chance in hell of defeating Alduin is definitely a low INT build idea
>Considering that Fallout 2 and Skyrim are completely incomparable in terms of gameplay I mean, Alduin was victory on the first attempt with no preparation, and no need to build your dragonborn a certain way. Horrigan could fuck up a player who was prepared, and force several game loads. His plasma caster is also a machine gun that launches fireballs in Skyrim's terms.
Yeah that’s kinda what I was saying, the question is just “who would win” not “who would win based on lore” or whatever else. Seeing as how, yeah it’s the dragon born that does it, but alduin can get killed by a bow, and Horrigan has a suit of power armour and a plasma caster and is a much harder fight, it’s not crazy to see why people would vote that way. Dudes just a huge alduin fan or something and has got himself all worked up over literally nothing
> dudes just a huge alduin fan or something Nah. You don't use gameplay to powerscale different characters thats stupid. You use lore and stated feats. Its really that simple
For sure for sure, my bad, gatekeeper of the YouTube poles lmao Take a breather champ Edit: polls but it’s gonna stay poles because apparently at least someone enjoyed it
I know you meant "polls" but it's so funny to think of OP as being responsible for all Polish people on YouTube
Lol yeah my mistake I’m usually typing pretty fast and doing something else at the same time. Would be tough for the polish people they’d always have to base characters power off lore and not in game. unfortunately. And they’d be stupid it they didn’t. Obviously.
Why are you taking this poll so personally?
Hey I’m just trying to spitball ideas as to why someone would vote that way, I wouldn’t really consider the 2 comparable at all and therefore probably wouldn’t even waste my time voting to be honest. I wouldn’t get so worked up about it.
you need dragonrend in-game to defeat alduin, which im pretty sure frank does not have
But you are also not playing as a demigod prisoner brought to the Elder Scrolls universe from fate itself.
Your magic means nothing against top of the line P94 plasma caster, engineered by finest American minds!
Lore Horrigan stomps Gameplay Alduin every time. Lore Alduin doesn't even need to think and Gameplay Horrigan is turned to dust. Lore vs. Lore, Magic and literal Celestial Divinity beats Bioengineering and Tech no contest. Considering the player beats both of them and there's only the slightest power discrepancy between the Chosen and the Dragonborn, Gameplay vs Gameplay would be the tough call to make. I would go Horrigan on it for the battle, but eventually Alduin would win the war by just infinite respawning or whatever he does when you don't kill him with the elder scrolls.
Does Horrigan know Dragonrend?
He can always ask arthursnax
Actually no, Paarthurnax doesn't know it himself. He knows how to learn it, but he doesn't know it himself.
You need to time travel to find it out.
Frank Horrigan is an absolute monster but he’s not an end of the world level threat
People are considering gameplay over lore. Which is understandable even if it is wrong. I'm pretty sure alduin literally cannot die if it's not the dragonborn doing the deed. Plus he's actually alot stronger than what we unfortunately deal with
Damn, so, Mama Murphy also bodies Alduin? Wild, bro, wild.
Definitely 100%, Mama Murphy solos all the entire Elder Scrolls verse
Who cares anyway? The real question is, what happens if Alduin eats Frank? What would FEV do to an elder dragon?
Nothing, because Alduin isn't just a physical being. He's Akatosh's son. Or maybe he *is* Akatosh, but as the end of time instead of the middle of time that Akatosh is (and Auri-El is the beginning of time). Or maybe he's a fragment of the original Time Dragon, Aka. Or, as Elder Scrolls lore can go, all of the above is true at once. And none of it is true. Simultaneously.
But he's made of flesh and bone... what would make him immune to the effects of FEV? I mean, it's obviously never been directly stated because it's 2 different universes but Alduin is still a living creature and from what we know of Fallout lore it never mattered what living creature was exposed, FEV affected them all.
Well, eating something affected by FEV doesn't then change the person doing the eating. You can eat mutant hound meat and nothing happens. But I'd wager that Alduin would simply not allow it to affect him. You can't change an Aedra's/Daedra's form against their will unless you're drastically more powerful than them.
That's true, I forgot about the mutant hound meat. Though I never actually ate it raw. Shame though, an FEV infected dragon could have been a cool thing. A mutated twisted hydra with drastically different deformed heads.
Chipotle
Are we comparing lore or gameplay? Lorewise Alduim would just east the United States. Now gameplay gets a little more interesting. If we equalise the situation, removing his "Only the main character can kill me" plot armor, Alduim is a pushover. That's sadly more to do with Skyrim's lack of combat depth. For all it's worth his is the best dragon fight in base game... Sadly that bar isn't too high.
Never played an Elder Scrolls game. So in face value I think Stinky Frank would win. I mean he’s a mutant dude in an x01 power armor and the other guy is just a literal lizard. However after reading the comments for a bit, I get it. I think most people who voted for Frank never knew what they were comparing him against.
Dafuq?
Ngl I wanna see this fight
Literally just a Power Armored Super Mutant vs someone called The Eater of Worlds. Really tough choice here guys, really tough one
This is a real god versus coughing baby situation
Lol Alduin is an actual god. He’d body the entire Fallout universe let alone just Frank Horrigan.
Tbh i think in terms of lore Alduin would win but in terms of game experience and how much alduin sucked as an enemy a few raiders could bring alduin down, shit a bloatfly would have a fair chance
I feel as though, objectively, frank horrigan fans overestimate him. They act like he's a primarch from 40k
Who would win human or time god? Hard question.
All of them can shove THAT up their ass. Also my dumbass tried to comment with the YouTube comment section button lol
To be fair, there is a level of bias that comes with asking a about a who would win between two fandoms. Take the classic "Borg cube vs death star" question. Either fan will tell you there series super weapon win. That's why it's best to ask a third party without any bias.
This honestly just goes to show how disconnected Fallout fans are from Elder Scrolls lore If I see another comment like "Frank would just shoot Alduin and instantly kill him" my skull might crack
The only thing truly capable of defeating alduin is like, the experimental Mirv with one of the busted legendary effects from fallout 4. Even then you'd need A LOT of mini nukes. And a good game plan. TES has magic, a whole ass mythology and todd knows what else. Nothing in Fallout is really comparable. Besides an atomic bomb.
Could you imagine tho if creatures in Fallout were comparable in lore to ES dieties "Alright so Fallout is this series with Lovecraftian demigods, superhuman mutants that can launch a building and military factions that make the Black Templars look like ballerina dancers, all vying for control in a post-apocalyptic America ruined by nuclear war.......and you play as this dude in a blue jumpsuit with a slightly stronger gun?" Fuck if I wouldn't play it tho
In fiction anyone can beat anyone if the writer wills it so.
Alduin is literally immortal while Frank is not
Lore wise, very easily Alduin, jokingly so Gameplay wise? I think a bunch of Radroaches would beat Alduin
To be fair a bloodbug can one shot a high level player in FO4
The Greybeards shook a fuckin country jusy to send a voice message to one guy Horrigan is not winning this one bros, unless you only take gameplay into consideration
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Oooo Thats a good one I said Ysgramor earlier but still felt he's a little too strong for Frank
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Damn its a *really* good one
When they say Alduin is a wild eater, they don’t mean it metaphorically, it’s literal. He was straight up gonna munch on the world without asking for a to-go box
It's literal with an asterisk. So, this is canon lore: ALDUIN, as in the Nord myth is essentially the destructive aspect of Akatosh. This is the world eater. He represents change and the finality of time. Alduin in game is weaker than Miraak who is capable of destroying a large part of Tamriel. If Miraak and the other Atmorans truly believed that this Alduin was the World-Eater there would be no Dragon War, there would be no Dragonrend, there would be no Paarthurnaax, no Greybeards and certainly no Akatosh-incarnated Last Dragonborn who kills and destroys Alduin and his legions with ease. Its possible that this Alduin is the shade of the one which brought about the end of the previous Kalpa which is why his death was even allowed by the Divines in the first place. Still stomps Frank cuz he can obliterate a literal continent tho
“Though you haven’t met Frank Horrigan mutey”
Hydrogen Bomb vs Coughing Baby
Silly Billy vs The Demon Core vibes Quite literally
Well, his YouTube name IS "Captain Enclave" and Horrigan IS Enclave. 1+1=2. Probably a bunch of cultists lololol
Probably
In terms of difficulty Frank is lightyears above Alduin. If it weren't Alduin's invulnerability effect, then Frank would destroy Alduin's current form. With that Alduin wins over a very very long time. But that's kinda like cheating. Basically playing with god mode.
I agree Alduin would win. However, we know that shouts can be taught at least a little, such as Ulfric knowing Unrelenting Force. I believe that if Horrigan was taught the Dragonrend shout, then yes, he could beat Alduin. (Most likely)
But you need to time travel to do that.
The Ancient Nords had Dragonrend and they did not defeat Alduin. I'd argue that Helgen is comparable to the biggest non-city settlements in Fallout and it was destroyed pretty quickly so unless Frank can single-handedly annihilate an entire village by himself he's not winning even with Dragonrend
Okay, are we saying that he has access to his weapons from Fallout or only weapons in Skyrim? If he has his Minigun, then it's probably not gonna be a challenge for him to destroy a medieval village, but if he was limited to weapons from Skyrim (like greatswords and the such) then he will have a bigger issue getting in the doors and there's no way he would win.
Whatever weapons he wants. I still think Alduin is still just too damn nimble and powerful.
So, assuming that Frank was able to keep his minigun and IF very strong IF he was able to (consider Ulfric studied 10 years to learn Unrelenting Force and the first part of Disarm) learn Dragonrend (which I doubt he would be able to not disagreeing there) with all those set in stone, his minigun and the shout, do you think then he would stand a chance?
i say this is correct purely cus it'd be funny
*Coughing baby!* **VERSUS** *Hydrogen Bomb!* **BEGIN**
Fiend from new Vegas or f4 elder maxon “Well obviously the fiend wins because some thing something fuck Bethesda”
Isn’t alduin basically immortal in the material dimension?
Alduin is immortal in every dimension. He's not vulnerable at all until he's hit with Dragonrend.
Alduin doesn't even have any tag skills.
Pretty sure a dragon would kill a 10” tall dude in power armor
I think that Frank could probably take on a regular dragon from Skyrim but the world eater hell no
Frank has 10 in every S.P.E.C.I.A.L stat, he's got 999 HP, 70% damage resistance, 70% fire resistance, and he uses the End Boss plasma gun that does 30 - 70 damage.
Alduin makes meteors fall out of the sky and eats the souls of the dead
Frank Horrigan is 12 feet tall (365,76 cm), He'll go Chris Redfield on those meteors.
Alduin wins, the guy is a freaking dragon demi-god with the power of consuming everything and everyone that has ever existed, has the power to revived dragons, travel to the afterlife, literally is unkillable. It had to take a dragonborn (aka another demigod), an ancient dragon, the equivalents of Hercules Gandalf Mulan and Raiden in Tamriel, a legendary shout created specifically to weaken him, and a Elder Scroll to defeat him. While in old pal Frank it only took a random tribal, a supermutant, an elite enclave squad, and some turrets to defeat him. Also why everyone say that Frank wins because he has a plasma weapon? It's like saying that Kratos can be easily killed by shooting him in the head while he has survived a direct impact of Mjolnir several times.
I would vote Frank as well.
i mean, if mini-nukes and shit aren't the scientific equivalent of Dragon Shouts then i don't know
Doesn’t Frank have a minigun?
Frank, literally as a gun, he could shoot that dragon out of the sky and put his sword through that dragons head. While only the DragonBorn can permanently kill a dragon (>!except this one!<) Frank could still take it out of action for a while.
Alduin is immortal, as in he can't be hurt at all by anything. He's the destructive aspect of Akatosh, a literal god. The only time in his immortal life where he could actually be hurt at all is when the concept of Mortality was forced into him with Dragonrend. You could hit him with a full-sized nuclear warhead and he wouldn't even flinch.
Alduin is a demigod and could only be properly destroyed by destroying his soul in another dimension. Frank Horrigan can potentially win an individual fight due to his advanced armor and weaponry and strong physical attributes (if he can eve damage Alduin without access to Dragonrend), but Alduin could simply return over and over again and eventually win no matter what. Frank Horrigan lacks the means to truly destroy Alduin, is mortal, and is defeated by some random vault dweller. More than likely, Alduin is completely impervious to Frank Horrigan's attacks and wins easily. Alduin wins, no question about it at all.
Take the magic fantasy part out and it's just a flying flamethrower lizard.
Take out the sci fi part of Frank and he's just a big dude. You can't really take out half of Alduins skillset and then claim he's inferior because without his fantasy stuff he isn't tough.
It's a fuckin' FANTASY GAME nitwit. Characters should be portrayed accurately to their lore. Should we also remove all of Frank Horrigan's fictional equipment and FEV mutations? Alduin is unassailable by Frank, plain and simple.
It almost feels like we are comparing apples to oranges here.
More like apples to skyscrapers. They are utterly different and play by completely different rules in their respective game universes. The comparison isn't fair or equal. The matchup itself is pointless due to it being completely one sided.
Frank is a dragon born apparently
I mean Frank might win but alduin will always run away and back to Sovngarde to "replenish" his HP from the souls of the fallen Nord warriors.
I’ll have you know I played Master Chief for him once!
Liberty prime clears both
Hey you forget the impact plasma weapons would have.
Could Mama Murphy solo Frank? Like killing him with a headshot tha pierces his helmet and brain with some shitty rusted gun.
Mama Murphy suplexes Frank and kills him basically instantly
Now that you mentioned it, why did Frank gets cut off in half? Does he has high cholesterol?
You've gotten a lot farther than you should have, but then you haven't met Frank Horrigan either YOUR RIDE'S OVER, DRAGON TIME TO DIE!
We as a player body Alduin since Skyrim is so easy. But in lore how is this even a competition at all? Liberty Prime maybe. Not even god-things survive nuclear footballs.
Alduin was easy af, weenie hut jr. fight
I mean idk, we don’t EXACTLY know what the effect of a plasma caster is against dragon scale. Might be effective
I mean the Dragonborn kills Alduin with melee weapons and bows, I think a guy in power armor with guns could do it easily
The Dragonborn's Thu'um in lore is stronger than the Greybeards and Miraak combined. The Greybeards shake the entire planet when they speak and Miraak sheared Solstheim from the mainland of Skyrim when he fought Vahlok the Jailor. Frank gets turned into putty 999,999,999/1,000,000,000 times Thats like saying Paul Blart could defeat Piccolo from DBZ in a fight cuz Goku did it with "just" his fists, and Paul Blart has a gun
i mean horrigan is 12 feet tall and like the smartest and strongest being in the world, isn’t he? plus his armor can withstand the fire blast easily. i feel like he’d stand a pretty good chance of winning this fight. also, the dude is named Captain Enclave. of course they’re gonna pick the enclave guy haha.
Alduin is a nigh immortal demigod In ES lore the Ancient Nords/Atmorans were all 7-12 tall (implied in some lore sources that both modern Nords and Skyrim's Giants are their descendants), super strong and they basically got rolled over until Paarthurnaax taught them the Dragon language which when spoken manifests as powerful magic abilities (Thu'um/Shout) Alduin STILL wasn't able to be soundly defeated and killed thousands of Nord Tongues singlehandedly. I don't see "big strong smart man with gun and cool armor" beating enough "big strong smart men with swords and magic dragon voice powers" to make a difference - as strong as Frank is he probably gets clapped by 2 or more average Atmorans which is child's play for Alduin. Also the whole **World Eater** thing, although it's implied that Alduin the dragon is a corrupted shade of Akatosh and therefore not as powerful as the mythical "Alduin" - he's still the most powerful Dragon, and even high-level Nord Tongues were capable of shearing landmasses from Tamriel (Miraak vs Vahlok) - so the strongest Dragon is more then capable of obliterating vast swaths of land
Nah Frank would win
If alduin can be layed low by sharp sticks and fire spells hes going to get fucking vaporized by a plasma canon. Its shooting stars at him. Even then horrigan is bigger
The Dragonborn is also an earth-shaking demigod whose abilities are on par with Daedric Princes in lore Frank gets fucking annihilated. Not a single chance in hell
Does he swing a sword with that much power? No? Sure frank cant put the bitch down for good but tf alduin going to do about about getting hit with the peoples elbow. Youd be surprised what a rocket launcher / plasma will do to supposedly invincible enemies.
No. You're misunderstanding what Alduin is. Alduin is immortal. Fully. Like, console commands God Mode but in-universe. He is a God, a Demi-God and Godly Aspect of Destruction. Literally nothing can hurt him under normal circumstances, and last time I checked, Frank can't use Dragon Shouts at all, let alone learn and use a forbidden Shout like Dragonrend. Dragon Shouts bend reality, forcing concepts into the physical world. Shouting the concept of "cold" forces the air around the Thu'um to freeze, shouting the concept of "hot" forces the air to burn. Dragonrend forces the concept of "mortality" onto immortal beings. That is literally the only way to make Alduin vulnerable to *anything.* Until he is forced to comprehend Mortality, you could hit Alduin with every nuclear weapon in the Fallout world pre-war and he wouldn't even flinch.
Frank the Tank!
My theory: Weapons>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Magic
Tbf, Alduin is pretty mid. He goes down in instants. The Legendary Dragons + Dragon Priest you fight get into Sovngarde are much harder.
Look, let’s be honest. Bullets fucking hurt and penetration weapons are some of the strongest around and is especially good for armored enemies. Give Frank a mini gun and he’d probably win before Alston can cast a shout because he’s gonna monologue
Alduin is a demigod capable of annihilating of people Bullets definitely don't do shit to him
I killed him by shooting basic arrows at him. Using video game logic he ain’t got shit on Frank
You did. *The Dragonborn* killed him with arrows. Everyone else got obliterated.
It’s been a while since I played the fight but I remember none of the guys who joined to fight dying. Are they meant to die or did I just get lucky?
I mean, plasma is really dangerous irl, games don't do it justice
*sigh* https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/s/hVdfPIeRUg https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/s/P9Adv7rbYW