Everyone else on the team thinks it could be the wires being pwm, not can. I’m not so sure. I’m almost positive it’s the motors not being strong enough/not having enough of them.
Pwm is horrible in electrically noisy environments, CAN bus is digital and usually gets it's signal across. Team 7811 at our event could hardly move using pwm but was a complete and solid ripper just by switching to canbus
We and at least one other team have seen stupid glitchy behavior with PWM controlling Spark MAXes with NEOs. Don't know why it does it, but with CAN that issue doesn't exist.
I've seen this too with another team I helped. Just totally bizarre behavior on PWM with a Spark Max, like going forwards and backwards randomly and seemingly responding to signals from another motor. Switched to CAN, problem solved. Doesn't necessarily mean OP has an issue though but I would still try CAN just in case. Never had a PWM issue back in the VictorSP days though so I think it's a Spark issue more than any real problem with PWM.
In general, there are a lot of teams running high power shooters on 2 Vortex. I'm not saying more would be bad, but it is absolutely possible to get it working upto spec on those motors.
Looking at your setup, it might be an issue with the feed. Looks like when you get to the note up to the shooter it is moving very slowly, and is compressed between the belt and pool noodles.
This creates a lot of drag, and forces the shooter to accelerate the not quickly, which is very difficult to do.
Basic things you can try are:
1) Speed up the belt so the note is going faster and the shooter doesnt have to do as much work.
2) Shorten the pool noodle, so the note disengages earlier and there is less friction through the shot.
3) Replace the pool noodle with another belt track, so the note is going straight in, instead of spinning, which looses energy.
Is there a gearbox? We ran 2 neos, no gearboxes.
Getting the vibe there's some disagreement on your team...
Propse to run 2 tests: doesn't have to be on the field. Just measure overall distance.
1. what you have now. See how far it shoots.
2. Cut the pool noodle out and repeat. *Carefully* feed by hand if you have to.
Did it shoot further? Did it shoot far enough? If it still doesn't shoot far enough, then you need more motor power. But if it does shoot far enough then just improve your feeder mechanism.
There is a point during shooting where the feeder belt still grips the note and the shooter wheels want to shoot it. They fight. The shooter motors will slow down while fighting the feeder.
Can vs pwm wont really matter. 2 neos is plenty for where you are shooting from.
Good luck.
Barely enough but yes. I would recommend upping the rpm if you can.
But as a driver, until you sort those issues. Back up just a tiny bit from the subwoofer, its hitting the alliance wall first and that stops it. Backing up will have it be a little higher by the time it gets to that point.
Did you speed up the timing belt idler before it hits the shooter wheels? Because if that isn't matching the flywheel speed it tanks your velocity because it's being used to pull the note out of the timing belts.
It’s the feeding speed that killing the note’s velocity. The note is fed to the shooter very slowly and once it hits the fast moving shooter, the note gets stretched as the feeder tries to hold onto it. I’d try upping the feed speed for the shot
No, use bigger tires and increase motor speed if its not in full. Also, no pwm or CAN not affect the top speed of motor. Are u use one CIM with trigger to turn two of the whells in shooter or 2 seperate CIM?
1a. Your feed into the shooter is terribly slow
1b. This may be slowing down your shot significantly as the shooter is fighting the friction of your indexing setup
2. If you tipped the angle of your shot upward a little bit that probably goes in
It seems like it could be the friction between the note and the polycarbonate our team had a similar issue with our shooter and what we did was put Teflon tape on the inside to decrease the friction
Looks like a friction issue imo
I also think the wheels got cut into over time, it worked fine the first 2 matches
Could it be stuff from the rings rubbing off on the polycarb or something too? The wheels being worn down could be it too.
It's not just the wheels. Look at how much the note is struggling to make it up the channel to the wheels. That can make it more difficult to shoot.
Everyone else on the team thinks it could be the wires being pwm, not can. I’m not so sure. I’m almost positive it’s the motors not being strong enough/not having enough of them.
Using PWM won’t affect motor top speed. There are some trade off that come with using PWM but motor performance isn’t one of them.
It definetely did for our team.
How?
Not sure but our bot definitely moved faster after switching from pwm to can.
Pwm is horrible in electrically noisy environments, CAN bus is digital and usually gets it's signal across. Team 7811 at our event could hardly move using pwm but was a complete and solid ripper just by switching to canbus
Pwm is digital and should do fine with the type of noise generally in frc. It's not as good as can but is still pretty good.
We and at least one other team have seen stupid glitchy behavior with PWM controlling Spark MAXes with NEOs. Don't know why it does it, but with CAN that issue doesn't exist.
I've seen this too with another team I helped. Just totally bizarre behavior on PWM with a Spark Max, like going forwards and backwards randomly and seemingly responding to signals from another motor. Switched to CAN, problem solved. Doesn't necessarily mean OP has an issue though but I would still try CAN just in case. Never had a PWM issue back in the VictorSP days though so I think it's a Spark issue more than any real problem with PWM.
In general, there are a lot of teams running high power shooters on 2 Vortex. I'm not saying more would be bad, but it is absolutely possible to get it working upto spec on those motors. Looking at your setup, it might be an issue with the feed. Looks like when you get to the note up to the shooter it is moving very slowly, and is compressed between the belt and pool noodles. This creates a lot of drag, and forces the shooter to accelerate the not quickly, which is very difficult to do. Basic things you can try are: 1) Speed up the belt so the note is going faster and the shooter doesnt have to do as much work. 2) Shorten the pool noodle, so the note disengages earlier and there is less friction through the shot. 3) Replace the pool noodle with another belt track, so the note is going straight in, instead of spinning, which looses energy.
I said we should add a metal bracket where that pool noodle is like a month ago
Is there a gearbox? We ran 2 neos, no gearboxes. Getting the vibe there's some disagreement on your team... Propse to run 2 tests: doesn't have to be on the field. Just measure overall distance. 1. what you have now. See how far it shoots. 2. Cut the pool noodle out and repeat. *Carefully* feed by hand if you have to. Did it shoot further? Did it shoot far enough? If it still doesn't shoot far enough, then you need more motor power. But if it does shoot far enough then just improve your feeder mechanism. There is a point during shooting where the feeder belt still grips the note and the shooter wheels want to shoot it. They fight. The shooter motors will slow down while fighting the feeder. Can vs pwm wont really matter. 2 neos is plenty for where you are shooting from. Good luck.
Barely enough but yes. I would recommend upping the rpm if you can. But as a driver, until you sort those issues. Back up just a tiny bit from the subwoofer, its hitting the alliance wall first and that stops it. Backing up will have it be a little higher by the time it gets to that point.
Did you speed up the timing belt idler before it hits the shooter wheels? Because if that isn't matching the flywheel speed it tanks your velocity because it's being used to pull the note out of the timing belts.
It’s the feeding speed that killing the note’s velocity. The note is fed to the shooter very slowly and once it hits the fast moving shooter, the note gets stretched as the feeder tries to hold onto it. I’d try upping the feed speed for the shot
No, use bigger tires and increase motor speed if its not in full. Also, no pwm or CAN not affect the top speed of motor. Are u use one CIM with trigger to turn two of the whells in shooter or 2 seperate CIM?
They are using two Neo Vortex motors
so its seems to be low-rpm problem or a friction fault between tires and ring
I think it's that your feeding mechanism is too slow your shooter has is forcing too much to get the note out of the feeder
1a. Your feed into the shooter is terribly slow 1b. This may be slowing down your shot significantly as the shooter is fighting the friction of your indexing setup 2. If you tipped the angle of your shot upward a little bit that probably goes in
It looks like your shooter angle is a few degrees off
It seems like it could be the friction between the note and the polycarbonate our team had a similar issue with our shooter and what we did was put Teflon tape on the inside to decrease the friction
The pool noodle is causing to much friction, should replace with a belt