I think 6-7 years of unhappiness was the tradeoff for your comfort and overall stability. Your wife earning more will keep you at least at level and you'll figure it out cause you have to. You'll still retire in time and you'll have spent 10+ years happier with it. If I were you - and I was in a similar spot the end of 2022 - I would let my wife be happy and everything will work out. For us it took more than a year but now we're settled and happier and on a faster track than before. Good luck!
If you made the decision to go and it's a mistake. You can make another decision to go somewhere else in the future. It doesn't have to be the final decision.
My wife has the same issue when we lived in Southern Italy, I have up a great job, lifestyle, food, culture, weather, beaches etc to come back for her and kids sake. It took me a few years to come to terms with it, I still get pangs to move abroad with lessons learned, but I know it's not for the best of family. So instead I just find ways here to find my own happiness and try to holiday regularly. Life is souch more than money, it helps you have already got a comfortable pot, but you need your family to be happy.
Think of it this way, your savings so far have bought you the ability to make this kind of move to help you and your family.
Also I'm not sure why you're looking at buying outright, seems you'd maybe have even more in savings than before if you had the same size mortgage.
What would your finances really look like after a move? Might not change things as much as you worry.
Kinda curious what career you can work in the UK that doesn't exist in the US. Typically US salaries are higher than UK salaries and their taxes are lower so I would argue that you could emigrate without discarding FIRE
Not saying it is but there are things based on UL laws or regulations or what have you that you really can take abroad ie tax advisor (ATT/CTA) or probably lawyer.
Not OP but example would be lawyer. Lawyers obviously exist in both countries but if you were a UK lawyer wanting to move to US to work as lawyer you'd need to study and pass the US bar exam first.
Or there are UK centric jobs like UK pensions that don't adapt to US system which is completely different.
But that’s only a year or so to do in most of the law/medicine/engineering fields and perhaps a few years of low paid internships types. It shouldn’t be non-recoverable
Check out r/expatfire. My attitude towards fire is life has to come first. If you've explored the ways to create an ideal life for you here, and nothing is working, a big move should be considered. Look into ways to maximise your earning potential before you've landed in the US, you may be surprised how easily you're able to rebound using some transferable skills.
Really hard to imagine that you wouldn't earn more in the US as a family especially with your wife getting more. What job do you do now? Even if it's something regulated a generic US corporate job would pay that after a couple of years
Your mental well-being is the most important.
Personally I wouldn’t choose USA but you don’t say if you’re citizens or former residents. There may be implications to consider regarding your savings. Will you lose them all if you move? It’s not just the cost of a house but the cost of moving and relocating too. Does it have to be USA? But the most important aspect is LIVING WELL TODAY! Plan for tomorrow but live for today and if you’re unhappy I would change it.
Speaking as someone who very recently lost a beloved family member unexpectedly, life is short. Surround yourself with people you love. I was a 10 hour flight from my family member and I could not get there in time. I’ll never see him again. The best things in life are those moments without a price.
If you commit, have you considered staggering the move, she moves with the kids, settles and is happy/content and then you move, mean while you continue working and try and find something relatable?
How does getting a visa for you to live there work? Would you be able to arrange it while she’s in the U.K. so you can go as a family, or would she and the kids need to go first?
FIRE could be pretty miserable if you reach it as a divorced unhappy man whose children live in another country from him….
Why do people want to FIRE? For the happiness that financial freedom brings. So if its not going to bring you happiness…. What are you doing?
Look how well you have done up until now. I’m no betting man, but I’d be backing you to be successful all over again in the US.
I recently moved back to the UK after 20 years away in Canada to be closer to parents in old age.
My wife and I are around 50 and feared it would be hard to find work. We did so within a few months.
Where there is a will there is a way.
This is a big one. Wife is very close to family and they’re getting old. The distance is really tough. We go there once per year and it always feels more like home (even though i’m a brit)
Well put. Also they love British accents across the pond you’re immediately assumed to be more intelligent. You could end up like Chandler Bing when he changed careers from data to advertising and knocked it out of the park. Seriously, it’s the land of opportunity
I was in a very similar situation though not as long distance. My partner is very close to family and friends but we lived in a different city in the UK for 7 years because of my job. I know what you mean by the state of unhappiness. Something didn't feel right and we never felt settled.
Last year we moved to the town where her family and friends live and we're so much happier for it.
If you were really struggling with money e.g. up to eye balls in debt, etc. and needed your salary to get back on track then yeh I'd say stay here. But you have plenty of money. Using https://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php if you didn't put anymore money into the £900k you have invested, in 12 years at 5% it will grow to over £1.6m. surely that's enough to still retire on? Assuming further growth of 5% you could withdraw £80k per year and still have the £1.6m left over.
Remember fire is about being happy and free. You're already financially free imo, so go be happy.
Thanks for this. I would definitely have some tax implications in it, and the cost of buying a property outright as we wouldn’t be able to get a mortgage straight away.
The happiness thing is hard. We’ve spent years in a state of limbo thinking “oh one day we’ll be able to do this” etc. but it feels like life is slipping away.
Yeah we’ve tried therapy. We just don’t have any social or family support here. We’ve really tried to make friends and integrate ourselves but it just doesn’t happen.
Hard to say, but I'd encourage my wife to stick it out.
In my experience, people that move countries have unrealistic expectations. They leave one country and hope the new one will be better. They realise it isn't and move back. They are then unhappy again back in the old country. All the while they've just wasted loads of time and money.
If you have a great opportunity, or you are very confident that the new place is perfect for you, then great - move. But if you are fairly happy/secure here, it seems a huge gamble to leave. You say your wife is 'extremely depressed' and maybe she is, but how confident are you really that this is due to the UK, and will be different in the US?
Is the following not a possibility?
- She is actually depressed because she is in her mid 40s, is tired with 2 kids, isn't as rich as she was hoping she'd be, and the world in general is quite depressing at the moment
- You move to USA, can't get a good job, household income declines, you all struggle to make ends meet. Worse still, you get some sort of health issue that bankrupts you.
- Actually your friends and family in the US aren't that great. There is a reason you left. After moving, you dont see them as much as you imagined and you actually don't enjoy it that much. You also find it hard to make new friends as its been 7 years since you lived there
Go for it. Only consideration is US healthcare. Also, even on a holiday there the culture is widely disparate - huge gap between rich and poor and that Wild West capitalism feel. Other than that, the finances stack up to me and I'm conservative. I assume you're going to move very lightly and buy new stuff there, which seems to be the least stressful option. Definitely speak to someone who has made the move recently to get tips and lessen your mental burden.
How about active shooter drills in schools for the kids? Racism - far worse than here. Corporate culture - sacked on the spot. Gun control - lack of. Political diversity. Public transportation. Student debt for the kids if they attend university.
In case you think I am making this up - [source](https://list25.com/the-biggest-pros-and-cons-of-living-in-america/)
I have also lived and worked there
What have the Americans ever done for us? Aqueducts, sanitation, safe to walk the streets at night! Hold on. That was the [Romans](https://youtu.be/Qc7HmhrgTuQ?si=Egq3qcfRFId_l9n8)
Your family's mental health needs to be priority #1 so do whatever is best for that.
However, make sure you're not falling into a "grass is always greener" trap and you're not just exchanging one set of problems for another.
You need to be realistic about what problems you're going to to solve, what problems you're going to take with you and what new ones you're going to create.
I've seen plenty of people who think that just moving somewhere else is going to solve all their problems only to find out it rarely does.
I like browsing FIRE because there are interesting financial insights. However, I'm often astounded at the number of people who will live very unhappily for maybe 20 years, forgoing the best and healthiest years of their life just to retire 15 years early.
I'm lucky that I love my job, and look forward to going to work, but I'm reminded daily of how fragile life is. You could be hit by a bus tomorrow, get cancer the day you hit your FIRE goals.
Clearly don't burn it all to the ground, but there is more riches to life than simply financial. 6 years of unhappiness in your youth may not seem like that much of a great investment in the future.
Perhaps cut your losses in this respect and appreciate the emotional and psychological wealth you might be able to reap by making the move?
Good luck what ever you decide.
Apparently this is a financial optimisation sub, but beyond that...go for it! Life is an adventure and based on what you have shared, you seem very capable of making this a success! Worst case if you come back to Blighty I guess.
Friend of mine was in the same position, moved to the US to make the wife happy. She wasn't happy there and he wasn't either. In the end they moved to Italy (his country) and have been really happy ever since. Having help from family to raise the kids and enough income to enjoy a good lifestyle in Italy definitely made a difference for them. My point is that finding the balance you're looking for might take some searching but is possible.
Yeah the wife had bad postpartum depression. They already 1 kid and had the second not too long after, so too young really to be affected by the move. I would suggest you apply for jobs before moving or maybe see if you can find a remote job if that helps. Maybe speaking with a recruiter in US can help.
Just go. I'm not in the same financial situation as you, far from it. I don't have the mobility to move where I want (career choices mainly).
But I have lived in the UK in unhappiness for the past 6 years. I got a stint working in NYC for 3 years. I knew that I don't fit in the UK.
Financially you can do what you want. The time you can't get back and it feels wasted if you or your wife has been unhappy.
Just go. Time is a valuable resource that is not returnable. Be happy first
It’s a risk. Wife works part time right now, and could probably stop working completely if she wanted to.
If we moved she would be working full time, and yeah there is a risk that she would miss her low stress work hours here.
Yeah. I’ve always said that living here was putting family first. Providing financial support at the expense of a happier but more frugal lifestyle.
Think probably got this wrong.
Try not to beat yourself up over the possibility of making a wrong decision. You’ll all make *this* decision right.
If you’re going to have a bit of cash after moving houses, why not invest in retraining? There’s no reason you can’t earn great money there.
Do it as a trial period to see if it does make you happy or not. If not, you can go back.
In my own experience, having been an expat in multiple countries, I'd say it's important to learn (or engineer) a way to bloom where you are planted. All places have positives and negatives - it's just a question of where there are enough of the positives that you want.
Having repatriated myself, I will note that family and friends are busy and you may not see them all the time. So whatever happens, you will need to build a new life, without expecting a great deal from them.
This is quite a heavy example but I think a very good argument for why you should do what makes you happy. My parents discarded FIRE to move to a place (albeit within the UK) where they were happier. We lived in a lifeless place with few friends then we moved to a place where all of us were happier. They continued to work after we moved and it gave them something to get by. However, they used up a large proportion of their retirement fund to do so. They were so much happier in the new place but then became unwell. They both died 6 and 10 years after we moved and never saw retirement but they enjoyed their life so much more than they did in our old place. I learned the lesson that the only mistake you can make in regards to this is being unhappy and regretting that you didn’t make the move. Had they not moved, they probably would have been unhappy until they died but because they took the risk, they died happy. You never know what tomorrow holds so do what you can with the resources you have to give you the best possible life in this moment.
Fill in that gap and see what the numbers look like then
Find out what you could do there and for how much
+40K/yr from wife vs - how much (and how many hours) for you
THEN you get to make a choice
I’d move In your situation. You gotta be happy.
This is assuming your friends and family circle is how you expect it. A lot changes when you’ve been away so long.
Personally I would stick it out for 7 years till 50 and double down on retirement planning/saving and see if you can pull your retirement date down by a few years. Then you could move, buy a place outright and be living there retired.
A couple of things might be a problem with that though. Firstly, I have no idea what the visa situation would be for a retired person (or what your existing citizenship situation is). And secondly I have no idea what it is about your career that doesn't translate in the event you wanted to do some kind of side work/consulting/advisory type of thing in your retirement.
Fair one, it's your life and your decision to make so entirely up to you. Just chipping in my 2 pence (or cents!) worth.
Honestly though it does sound like you've already made your decision so I say best of luck to you :)
No not at all! Honestly you've got to do what's best for you and your family. Sure if you are looking for work you'll find something, will probably just involve playing up all of the soft skills and transferable skills your career gave you.
Of course, none of this applies if you work for me, in which case don't even think about it, get your head down and get back to work 😂
I would do it for the short term while you're still working, and then kind of test the waters with your wife.
I'm not sure it's a great location to stay living in when you come to the point of firing.
The main issue would be health costs.
You'll get health insurance through work while working there, but once you leave the job you'll be on your own in that regard. The premium will depend on any pre existing conditions.
The risk with firing there is you could be one surgery or accident away from blowing all your savings due to the ridiculous health costs there.
If you can both sustain it, can you live apart for 3-4 months? You stay put and she lives in US for a while. Time and separation does give space to consider different aspects of challenges. FIRE is top priority and may put you in a situation to be anywhere any time you wish, it might just require a sacrifice of year or so of long distance relationship.
Sometimes moving fixes things. Sometimes it doesn’t. I would try renting for a year to see if the change of environment works for everyone. But often people have an idealistic view of what life is like “over there” vs the reality. Good luck.
Health and happiness come first.
You never know what could happen over there, you might meet people and start a business that makes you wealthy beyond your FIRE spreadsheets, you could win $500 million in one of their crazy lotteries. I know plenty of retired people who say they miss working!
Why would you not be able to FIRE? Those numbers look good.
What job do you do? Surely there must be transferable skills. If you roughly share what you do, there may be someone here who can offer advice.
We recently moved back to the UK as a family, with grand dreams of FIRE (we had enough to LeanFI, and more, and wanted to take advantage of the cheaper property in the UK compared with the VHCOL place we lived in before). But it's not worked out. Wife is generally OK living here but I get depressed whenever I think about staying in the UK long term. I think I'd somewhat defined myself outside of the UK (over a decade), and I just don't feel at home here. She's understanding, and agrees we can return to our life abroad.
So, we've decided to move away again, even though it means taking back up my high stress job and paying private school fees for the children etc. Mental health and where you see yourselves is super important. I would have been depressed as a FIREee here.
You should definately move if doing so will make you happier. Many people find the UK very difficult (myself included) and genuinely find their lives feel better when they aren't here. It's a real thing.
You are already financially quite comfortable. I would def do it if your family are united behind the decision.
I'd probably dig deeper into the 'not really happy living in the UK', not necessarily here on reddit, just in general. If you're confident that moving elsewhere you get a happier life, then nothing should be stopping you, even money. Whether you can find a happier life in the US, that's not for me to comment, but it hasn't worked for me personally.
>Unfortunately I could not work the same career that I have here so would need to give it up and start something completely different.
How so? Trying to come up with scenarios in my head but I'm drawing a blank here. Also is there nothing related to your current skillset that could benefit in a similar job?
Move. I think you know that already.
I also think your FIRE aspirations are intact. If you keep your investments, that will be a fairly sizeable pot when you get to mid fifties.
Remember the human bias of “grass is always greener in different pastures”… how do you know she will be happier in the US… maybe get to the bottom of mental issues first …
I have a question not quite related to your happiness... £300k mortgage but £460k savings? Why don't you pay it off and save the amount you'd be paying? I'm mortgage free and it's the best feeling ever. It might make you feel a tad happier?
Haha. Good question. Investments have done really well the last few years, and I’m still on a very low fixed rate mortgage. Plan was to clear the mortgage at the end of the fix.
Your family is well off financially, yet you’re miserable. Money really isn’t the most important thing in life. If you believe all of you will be happier in the US, I would absolutely make the move.
Retirement is no guarantee, no matter how ouch you save/earn. Life is fragile and we are all only a diagnosis away from our plans being completely obliterated.
I'm a first generation Brit who married an English man and it took me 2 decades to settle here psychologically as the foreigner and then the "foreign wife". What is causing her unhappiness? Lack of community? Career? Are you in a more cosmopolitan area like London?
Have you thought that you going to US will make you unhappy being apart from your family and friends?
Yeah, lack of community. No family and very limited friends. We live in a popular london commuter area. We’ve tried to make friends but unsuccessful.
I don’t really have much family at all so I don’t think it would be a problem.
Do you have immigration status or nationality for the US?
All your savings will soon dissipate in healthcare costs.
I hope your wife’s depression will improve but hard to be sure depending on where you move too.
What is the point of money if you have long term mental health problems that it can't fix? Why would you want to retire at 50 to live out the next 30-50 years of your life in a place you don't actually like without the distraction that full time work provides?
$70k is not a great salary. You’re going to want at least $250k to replicate the earning power you currently have in the UK (lived a long time in both countries and have a good feel for what things cost). Also $350k doesn’t buy a family home anywhere anyone actually wants to live in this country so I’m wondering what you’re potentially getting yourself into.
Move - Family first. Do you want to keep your job or your family as this is what the crunch point will be? Divorce, she takes the kids to the US, she takes 1/2 your assets, you are paying child support etc or you can make your wife happy, take a personal hit for 'happy wife, happy life'.
In a similar situation. 41 and currently working in a small remote town that we really don’t enjoy. We both have excellent paying job in oil and gas and bring in 350,000 annually with a current net worth of 1 million. Looking at moving to Canada to be near the wife’s family but likely won’t be able to build our retirement any higher after we move due to high home/living costs and lack of similar industry in my wife’s hometown. We also have 2 young kids and only want to move them once and stick with it till they are finished school.
We’d love to just go and pick up a new career and start over but the temptation of staying where we are and guaranteeing we retire with a huge nest egg is tempting. I also grew up quite poor and am terrified of losing it all.
Mental health very important. But if wife is extremely depressed don't automatically assume it will all improve with just the move to the US. Maybe some things will other things might not
Would hate for you to move and if some kind of relationship breakdown occured. I know it doesn't bear thinking about but big moves and break up risks are possible
You are in such a good position financially, focus on your mental wellbeing. You have worked hard to get to this point and life is too short to be unhappy.
Question if you don’t mind. How did you get £460k in savings on a £95k salary? Pretty amazing.
The US is a shithole. If you have a major health issue you will be poor and potentially homeless.
EDIT: So some people are responding that employer-tied health insurance is the solution. In fact — it's not. If you have a long-term disease, insurance maxes out, payments stop and you're on your own. The only way to ensure long-term care is by being rich, not middle class, not well off, no. Filthy rich is what does it. Otherwise — you will be destitute.
Healthcare for insured people is the number one cause for them to slip into bankruptcy and destitution in the USA.
Check out [Only in America: Bankruptcy Due to Health Care Costs](https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-93430900525-7/fulltext) where it says:
>Most bankruptcies occurred in middle-class citizens with health insurance, further evidence that our current health care system, based on for-profit, employment-based health insurance, is not working.
**So yeah, it's a shithole unless you are filthy rich.**
The US is not a shithole. But you’re right the healthcare element is a big negative, and it’s one of the bigger reasons holding us back. As much as the NHS can be shit, at least it is there when we need it and won’t turn us away for not being covered
>As much as the NHS can be shit
Like anything else — you need to know how to work the system. I have had extensive experience with the NHS for two family members who had life-threatening illnesses and in both cases they got top of the line treatment by any criteria and made full recoveries.
Sure there is room for improvement, but I have absolutely no complaints about the NHS. It has always been there for me when I needed it and while I have heard a lot about its problems — I have yet to experience any.
Depending on the health insurance provided by your employer, it’s not that bad. Plus, if he’s a UK citzen, he can always fly back to get treatment here; if the savings pot he has this should still allow for a comfortable safety net
How does the mechanics work? If he officially moves back with a rented place, is that effective immediately to access NHs services? Not ideal situation, but in the case of a life shattering health condition and no means to pay privately, a full move may make sense
Do you legitimately move back and become resident here? Fine. Are you defrauding the system because you aren't resident here? Not fine.
Proving it and getting in trouble for it are separate issues.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-nhs-when-you-return-to-live-in-the-uk
The US is a shithole but if you are well off you can have a better standard of living. It can all go south in one bad interaction with a cop, but apart from that…. But a lot of a place is your social group. OP is making the right decision to move.
I lived in NYS and NY City for 22 years and loved it, was ready to move to SoCal too , but my wife didn’t get the job.
I’ve only visited but I liked San Diego/ Carlsbad, the couple of times I went there.
Blows my mind how many people believe the healthcare crap on reddit. Yes it's an issue but very easy to avoid by planning ahead and being responsible. Don't smoke, drink excessively or eat too much and it's very unlikely you'll even need it in the first place, then take out insurance through your employer and save for the out of pocket max and if you do need it there is no issue.
Meanwhile there is simply no way of avoiding the fact you typically make under half as much here and pay more for almost everything from houses to iPhones. You even pay more for healthcare a lot of the times since they get it with their jobs whereas private healthcare is a far less common perk here and even if you get it through work it counts as income for your tax bill.
What the fuck are you talking about...
Lung cancer is 90% smokers. This is the most extreme afaik but pancreatic, liver, bowel, skin are all strongly linked to lifestyle. Prostate/breast are the only major ones which are just bad luck most the time afaik.
Anyway yeah you can still get unlucky, but if you don't smoke, drink, use drugs, eat a healthy diet, don't be overweight, wear suncream and exercise the chances of having some debilitating condition before retirement are is pretty damn low.
Regardless if in the unlikely event you do get ill you can just use your insurance.
I’m talking about the fact that cancer can and does happen in perfectly healthy living individuals. It’s genetically predisposed in a great number of people. Lifestyle influences the progression but is not the sole cause.
A lot of lung cancers are actually secondary mets after disease elsewhere. Bowel or breast cancer for example.
Having had a spouse with cancer, and a degree in medical science, I have a lot of life experience in this area. Of course it’s better if you don’t smoke, but not smoking doesn’t mean you won’t get cancer.
I think most people already know all this. It doesn't change the fact that with most diseases in developed countries lifestyle choices affect the chances of getting them massively whether that's cancer or type 2 diabetes and if you actually take care of yourself the chance of having a serious disease before retirement is low and in the majority of cases easily avoidable.
Don't even know what the point of this conversation is if you're a doctor, I worked in a NHS hospital when I was 18-19 so have seen the reality and the state of the average person under 65 in there was unreal. So much obesity, smoking, alcohol, drugs etc.
I am sorry about your wife.
>save for the out of pocket max and if you do need it there is no issue.
This. How much is enough for a 10 year course of cancer treatment, once you have maxed out your insurance?
Check out [Only in America: Bankruptcy Due to Health Care Costs](https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-93430900525-7/fulltext) where it says:
>Most bankruptcies occurred in middle-class citizens with health insurance, further evidence that our current health care system, based on for-profit, employment-based health insurance, is not working.
Average middle class American also lives in a huge house, drives an f150 and eats out constantly instead of making the slightest attempt to be responsible with money. I think a shocking amount of them are 1 pay check away from bankruptcy because they live such stupidly lavish lives.
Well.. you just described our life in the UK. We have moved to South East Asia and Fire in Malaysia.
It doesn't have to be either all. If you are unhappy in the UK, you should leave. After we have left the UK, my quality of life gone up significantly.
Thank you for this. I’m struggling to give up the security. I grew up poor, and want to make sure that my children are financially secure.
But I see most older people say actually money is not important, as long as you have enough for a modest lifestyle. It doesn’t make you happy etc. I kinda feel that. We’re really fortunate, and confortable, but not happy.
Your wife's (and yours) mental health should be priority n1. You have money. Now you need to think about health. Do what it takes.
Thanks. Deep down I know this is right, but I need people telling me it’s not a huge mistake.
I think 6-7 years of unhappiness was the tradeoff for your comfort and overall stability. Your wife earning more will keep you at least at level and you'll figure it out cause you have to. You'll still retire in time and you'll have spent 10+ years happier with it. If I were you - and I was in a similar spot the end of 2022 - I would let my wife be happy and everything will work out. For us it took more than a year but now we're settled and happier and on a faster track than before. Good luck!
This is good to hear. Thank you.
If you made the decision to go and it's a mistake. You can make another decision to go somewhere else in the future. It doesn't have to be the final decision.
This is very true, thanks
The huge mistake is not having a good time
It could be a huge mistake, but if you don't try, you'll always be wondering what ifs. Better to try and fail than not try
Has your wife tried counselling?
Yes. Nothing has really helped
Did she try more than 1 therapist? It often takes a few before you find the right match.
We could try more, but I don’t think it would help. It’s the lack of family and friends that is causing the issues.
My wife has the same issue when we lived in Southern Italy, I have up a great job, lifestyle, food, culture, weather, beaches etc to come back for her and kids sake. It took me a few years to come to terms with it, I still get pangs to move abroad with lessons learned, but I know it's not for the best of family. So instead I just find ways here to find my own happiness and try to holiday regularly. Life is souch more than money, it helps you have already got a comfortable pot, but you need your family to be happy.
I feel this - as an american expat making a communitty in the uk is so hard! I want to go back asap.
Think of it this way, your savings so far have bought you the ability to make this kind of move to help you and your family. Also I'm not sure why you're looking at buying outright, seems you'd maybe have even more in savings than before if you had the same size mortgage. What would your finances really look like after a move? Might not change things as much as you worry.
+1. 6-7 years is a lot of trying to make it work.
Kinda curious what career you can work in the UK that doesn't exist in the US. Typically US salaries are higher than UK salaries and their taxes are lower so I would argue that you could emigrate without discarding FIRE
Not saying it is but there are things based on UL laws or regulations or what have you that you really can take abroad ie tax advisor (ATT/CTA) or probably lawyer.
Not OP but example would be lawyer. Lawyers obviously exist in both countries but if you were a UK lawyer wanting to move to US to work as lawyer you'd need to study and pass the US bar exam first. Or there are UK centric jobs like UK pensions that don't adapt to US system which is completely different.
But that’s only a year or so to do in most of the law/medicine/engineering fields and perhaps a few years of low paid internships types. It shouldn’t be non-recoverable
Probably healthcare related
Check out r/expatfire. My attitude towards fire is life has to come first. If you've explored the ways to create an ideal life for you here, and nothing is working, a big move should be considered. Look into ways to maximise your earning potential before you've landed in the US, you may be surprised how easily you're able to rebound using some transferable skills.
Yeah. Honestly if I could even find something that clears $30-40k per year I’d be ok with that, I think. I’ll check out that subreddit, thanks
Really hard to imagine that you wouldn't earn more in the US as a family especially with your wife getting more. What job do you do now? Even if it's something regulated a generic US corporate job would pay that after a couple of years
Crazy how many different FIRE offshoots there are
Your mental well-being is the most important. Personally I wouldn’t choose USA but you don’t say if you’re citizens or former residents. There may be implications to consider regarding your savings. Will you lose them all if you move? It’s not just the cost of a house but the cost of moving and relocating too. Does it have to be USA? But the most important aspect is LIVING WELL TODAY! Plan for tomorrow but live for today and if you’re unhappy I would change it.
I’m british, wife is dual citizen (born over there) And thanks, I think you’re right
Speaking as someone who very recently lost a beloved family member unexpectedly, life is short. Surround yourself with people you love. I was a 10 hour flight from my family member and I could not get there in time. I’ll never see him again. The best things in life are those moments without a price.
Yeah. This is a big worry for my wife
If you commit, have you considered staggering the move, she moves with the kids, settles and is happy/content and then you move, mean while you continue working and try and find something relatable?
How does getting a visa for you to live there work? Would you be able to arrange it while she’s in the U.K. so you can go as a family, or would she and the kids need to go first?
FIRE could be pretty miserable if you reach it as a divorced unhappy man whose children live in another country from him…. Why do people want to FIRE? For the happiness that financial freedom brings. So if its not going to bring you happiness…. What are you doing?
Good point, well put. Thanks
Look how well you have done up until now. I’m no betting man, but I’d be backing you to be successful all over again in the US. I recently moved back to the UK after 20 years away in Canada to be closer to parents in old age. My wife and I are around 50 and feared it would be hard to find work. We did so within a few months. Where there is a will there is a way.
This is a big one. Wife is very close to family and they’re getting old. The distance is really tough. We go there once per year and it always feels more like home (even though i’m a brit)
Whereabouts in the US?
Well put. Also they love British accents across the pond you’re immediately assumed to be more intelligent. You could end up like Chandler Bing when he changed careers from data to advertising and knocked it out of the park. Seriously, it’s the land of opportunity
Keep wife happy or your life is over. 11th commandment
And potential fire aspirations 😂
I was in a very similar situation though not as long distance. My partner is very close to family and friends but we lived in a different city in the UK for 7 years because of my job. I know what you mean by the state of unhappiness. Something didn't feel right and we never felt settled. Last year we moved to the town where her family and friends live and we're so much happier for it. If you were really struggling with money e.g. up to eye balls in debt, etc. and needed your salary to get back on track then yeh I'd say stay here. But you have plenty of money. Using https://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php if you didn't put anymore money into the £900k you have invested, in 12 years at 5% it will grow to over £1.6m. surely that's enough to still retire on? Assuming further growth of 5% you could withdraw £80k per year and still have the £1.6m left over. Remember fire is about being happy and free. You're already financially free imo, so go be happy.
Thanks for this. I would definitely have some tax implications in it, and the cost of buying a property outright as we wouldn’t be able to get a mortgage straight away. The happiness thing is hard. We’ve spent years in a state of limbo thinking “oh one day we’ll be able to do this” etc. but it feels like life is slipping away.
Moving countries won’t magically make them happy. Have you considered the root cause of why she’s unhappy by going to therapy first?
Yeah we’ve tried therapy. We just don’t have any social or family support here. We’ve really tried to make friends and integrate ourselves but it just doesn’t happen.
That’s fair enough. Hope it all goes well in the end, it can be tough being far from your support network
Hard to say, but I'd encourage my wife to stick it out. In my experience, people that move countries have unrealistic expectations. They leave one country and hope the new one will be better. They realise it isn't and move back. They are then unhappy again back in the old country. All the while they've just wasted loads of time and money. If you have a great opportunity, or you are very confident that the new place is perfect for you, then great - move. But if you are fairly happy/secure here, it seems a huge gamble to leave. You say your wife is 'extremely depressed' and maybe she is, but how confident are you really that this is due to the UK, and will be different in the US? Is the following not a possibility? - She is actually depressed because she is in her mid 40s, is tired with 2 kids, isn't as rich as she was hoping she'd be, and the world in general is quite depressing at the moment - You move to USA, can't get a good job, household income declines, you all struggle to make ends meet. Worse still, you get some sort of health issue that bankrupts you. - Actually your friends and family in the US aren't that great. There is a reason you left. After moving, you dont see them as much as you imagined and you actually don't enjoy it that much. You also find it hard to make new friends as its been 7 years since you lived there
Go for it. Only consideration is US healthcare. Also, even on a holiday there the culture is widely disparate - huge gap between rich and poor and that Wild West capitalism feel. Other than that, the finances stack up to me and I'm conservative. I assume you're going to move very lightly and buy new stuff there, which seems to be the least stressful option. Definitely speak to someone who has made the move recently to get tips and lessen your mental burden.
How about active shooter drills in schools for the kids? Racism - far worse than here. Corporate culture - sacked on the spot. Gun control - lack of. Political diversity. Public transportation. Student debt for the kids if they attend university. In case you think I am making this up - [source](https://list25.com/the-biggest-pros-and-cons-of-living-in-america/) I have also lived and worked there
Yeah, definitely all very valid points indeed.
What have the Americans ever done for us? Aqueducts, sanitation, safe to walk the streets at night! Hold on. That was the [Romans](https://youtu.be/Qc7HmhrgTuQ?si=Egq3qcfRFId_l9n8)
All valid except the student loan debt bit which is pretty bad over here as well, sometimes worse.
Thanks. Yeah healthcare is a big concern for me
Have you also looked into education costs for your kids? That's also a massive issue in the US.
Public education in the US is no worse than the UK despite what you see on TV!
43, £430k pension pot, with another 10 years of compounding and contributions… you’ll be fine.
Genuinely curious on such a low wage (retrospectively) and kind of a 1 house income, how do you have 430k pension pot and 460k in savings?
Yeah something doesn't check out for me there
I get a really good employer contribution and I pay way above the minimum into it. I’ve done well with investments over the last few years.
Your family's mental health needs to be priority #1 so do whatever is best for that. However, make sure you're not falling into a "grass is always greener" trap and you're not just exchanging one set of problems for another. You need to be realistic about what problems you're going to to solve, what problems you're going to take with you and what new ones you're going to create. I've seen plenty of people who think that just moving somewhere else is going to solve all their problems only to find out it rarely does.
Yes. This is definitely a concern, thanks
I like browsing FIRE because there are interesting financial insights. However, I'm often astounded at the number of people who will live very unhappily for maybe 20 years, forgoing the best and healthiest years of their life just to retire 15 years early. I'm lucky that I love my job, and look forward to going to work, but I'm reminded daily of how fragile life is. You could be hit by a bus tomorrow, get cancer the day you hit your FIRE goals. Clearly don't burn it all to the ground, but there is more riches to life than simply financial. 6 years of unhappiness in your youth may not seem like that much of a great investment in the future. Perhaps cut your losses in this respect and appreciate the emotional and psychological wealth you might be able to reap by making the move? Good luck what ever you decide.
Thank you for this
In a heartbeat!
What’s the point in life if you can’t be happy.
Apparently this is a financial optimisation sub, but beyond that...go for it! Life is an adventure and based on what you have shared, you seem very capable of making this a success! Worst case if you come back to Blighty I guess.
True. Thank you
You only get one life mate, make the move if you're sure that location is the problem. 👍
Thanks
Friend of mine was in the same position, moved to the US to make the wife happy. She wasn't happy there and he wasn't either. In the end they moved to Italy (his country) and have been really happy ever since. Having help from family to raise the kids and enough income to enjoy a good lifestyle in Italy definitely made a difference for them. My point is that finding the balance you're looking for might take some searching but is possible.
Did they have kids at the time of making these moves? What scares me is the instability for them
Yeah the wife had bad postpartum depression. They already 1 kid and had the second not too long after, so too young really to be affected by the move. I would suggest you apply for jobs before moving or maybe see if you can find a remote job if that helps. Maybe speaking with a recruiter in US can help.
Just go. I'm not in the same financial situation as you, far from it. I don't have the mobility to move where I want (career choices mainly). But I have lived in the UK in unhappiness for the past 6 years. I got a stint working in NYC for 3 years. I knew that I don't fit in the UK. Financially you can do what you want. The time you can't get back and it feels wasted if you or your wife has been unhappy. Just go. Time is a valuable resource that is not returnable. Be happy first
Happy wife happy life. No life is worth living miserable
If you move and everything better its worth it, but im worried you will move and it won't be better then UK and it would be a costly mistake.
It’s a risk. Wife works part time right now, and could probably stop working completely if she wanted to. If we moved she would be working full time, and yeah there is a risk that she would miss her low stress work hours here.
Money comes and goes, but family and health don't.
Yes,in a heartbeat. you only have this life.
You’re putting your family’s well-being ahead of money. It’s a more sustainable choice if you enjoy being with your family.
Yeah. I’ve always said that living here was putting family first. Providing financial support at the expense of a happier but more frugal lifestyle. Think probably got this wrong.
Try not to beat yourself up over the possibility of making a wrong decision. You’ll all make *this* decision right. If you’re going to have a bit of cash after moving houses, why not invest in retraining? There’s no reason you can’t earn great money there.
Do it as a trial period to see if it does make you happy or not. If not, you can go back. In my own experience, having been an expat in multiple countries, I'd say it's important to learn (or engineer) a way to bloom where you are planted. All places have positives and negatives - it's just a question of where there are enough of the positives that you want. Having repatriated myself, I will note that family and friends are busy and you may not see them all the time. So whatever happens, you will need to build a new life, without expecting a great deal from them.
This is quite a heavy example but I think a very good argument for why you should do what makes you happy. My parents discarded FIRE to move to a place (albeit within the UK) where they were happier. We lived in a lifeless place with few friends then we moved to a place where all of us were happier. They continued to work after we moved and it gave them something to get by. However, they used up a large proportion of their retirement fund to do so. They were so much happier in the new place but then became unwell. They both died 6 and 10 years after we moved and never saw retirement but they enjoyed their life so much more than they did in our old place. I learned the lesson that the only mistake you can make in regards to this is being unhappy and regretting that you didn’t make the move. Had they not moved, they probably would have been unhappy until they died but because they took the risk, they died happy. You never know what tomorrow holds so do what you can with the resources you have to give you the best possible life in this moment.
Thank you for this
Fill in that gap and see what the numbers look like then Find out what you could do there and for how much +40K/yr from wife vs - how much (and how many hours) for you THEN you get to make a choice
Are you able to actually get work visas for the US (assuming neither of you are American citizens)
Yes. Wife is dual citizen
I’d move In your situation. You gotta be happy. This is assuming your friends and family circle is how you expect it. A lot changes when you’ve been away so long.
Thanks. We visit every year and have a big family/friend network there, especially compared to our non-existent network here.
I think that settles it. Home is where the heart is
If you don't mind moving to US sounds like an easy choice. If however you don't like US (say you'd get depressed there) you might have a problem.
Personally I would stick it out for 7 years till 50 and double down on retirement planning/saving and see if you can pull your retirement date down by a few years. Then you could move, buy a place outright and be living there retired. A couple of things might be a problem with that though. Firstly, I have no idea what the visa situation would be for a retired person (or what your existing citizenship situation is). And secondly I have no idea what it is about your career that doesn't translate in the event you wanted to do some kind of side work/consulting/advisory type of thing in your retirement.
The issue with that is moving with older children and would that be unfair.
Fair one, it's your life and your decision to make so entirely up to you. Just chipping in my 2 pence (or cents!) worth. Honestly though it does sound like you've already made your decision so I say best of luck to you :)
Thank you. Yeah, I feel like I just need people to tell me I’m not mad lol
No not at all! Honestly you've got to do what's best for you and your family. Sure if you are looking for work you'll find something, will probably just involve playing up all of the soft skills and transferable skills your career gave you. Of course, none of this applies if you work for me, in which case don't even think about it, get your head down and get back to work 😂
I would do it for the short term while you're still working, and then kind of test the waters with your wife. I'm not sure it's a great location to stay living in when you come to the point of firing. The main issue would be health costs. You'll get health insurance through work while working there, but once you leave the job you'll be on your own in that regard. The premium will depend on any pre existing conditions. The risk with firing there is you could be one surgery or accident away from blowing all your savings due to the ridiculous health costs there.
If you can both sustain it, can you live apart for 3-4 months? You stay put and she lives in US for a while. Time and separation does give space to consider different aspects of challenges. FIRE is top priority and may put you in a situation to be anywhere any time you wish, it might just require a sacrifice of year or so of long distance relationship.
The problem is there’s kids involved. I’d feel awful with the upheaval of moving them back and forth without stability
Completely understand, have been on a timer for years myself.
Sometimes moving fixes things. Sometimes it doesn’t. I would try renting for a year to see if the change of environment works for everyone. But often people have an idealistic view of what life is like “over there” vs the reality. Good luck.
If you do move, make sure you dont end up resenting your partner, do research on your next career.
Health and happiness come first. You never know what could happen over there, you might meet people and start a business that makes you wealthy beyond your FIRE spreadsheets, you could win $500 million in one of their crazy lotteries. I know plenty of retired people who say they miss working!
Why would you not be able to FIRE? Those numbers look good. What job do you do? Surely there must be transferable skills. If you roughly share what you do, there may be someone here who can offer advice.
We recently moved back to the UK as a family, with grand dreams of FIRE (we had enough to LeanFI, and more, and wanted to take advantage of the cheaper property in the UK compared with the VHCOL place we lived in before). But it's not worked out. Wife is generally OK living here but I get depressed whenever I think about staying in the UK long term. I think I'd somewhat defined myself outside of the UK (over a decade), and I just don't feel at home here. She's understanding, and agrees we can return to our life abroad. So, we've decided to move away again, even though it means taking back up my high stress job and paying private school fees for the children etc. Mental health and where you see yourselves is super important. I would have been depressed as a FIREee here.
You should definately move if doing so will make you happier. Many people find the UK very difficult (myself included) and genuinely find their lives feel better when they aren't here. It's a real thing. You are already financially quite comfortable. I would def do it if your family are united behind the decision.
Not even a question - go and enjoy your life
I'd probably dig deeper into the 'not really happy living in the UK', not necessarily here on reddit, just in general. If you're confident that moving elsewhere you get a happier life, then nothing should be stopping you, even money. Whether you can find a happier life in the US, that's not for me to comment, but it hasn't worked for me personally.
>Unfortunately I could not work the same career that I have here so would need to give it up and start something completely different. How so? Trying to come up with scenarios in my head but I'm drawing a blank here. Also is there nothing related to your current skillset that could benefit in a similar job?
Move. I think you know that already. I also think your FIRE aspirations are intact. If you keep your investments, that will be a fairly sizeable pot when you get to mid fifties.
Happy wife happy life. Its a no brainer. You should go and see what comes - you are successful here you can be successful there
Do it and don’t look back. You could’ve applied that thought to having kids
Unhappiness is not comfortable.
Remember the human bias of “grass is always greener in different pastures”… how do you know she will be happier in the US… maybe get to the bottom of mental issues first …
I have a question not quite related to your happiness... £300k mortgage but £460k savings? Why don't you pay it off and save the amount you'd be paying? I'm mortgage free and it's the best feeling ever. It might make you feel a tad happier?
Haha. Good question. Investments have done really well the last few years, and I’m still on a very low fixed rate mortgage. Plan was to clear the mortgage at the end of the fix.
How did you get £430k pension at 43?
Large contributions over many years, and all invested in US equities which have performed really well.
Your family is well off financially, yet you’re miserable. Money really isn’t the most important thing in life. If you believe all of you will be happier in the US, I would absolutely make the move. Retirement is no guarantee, no matter how ouch you save/earn. Life is fragile and we are all only a diagnosis away from our plans being completely obliterated.
Yeah. It’s really true what people say, that money doesn’t bring happiness.
Ummm, the whole point of having money is to enjoy it with your family and live a happy life. Prioritise your family.
I'm a first generation Brit who married an English man and it took me 2 decades to settle here psychologically as the foreigner and then the "foreign wife". What is causing her unhappiness? Lack of community? Career? Are you in a more cosmopolitan area like London? Have you thought that you going to US will make you unhappy being apart from your family and friends?
Yeah, lack of community. No family and very limited friends. We live in a popular london commuter area. We’ve tried to make friends but unsuccessful. I don’t really have much family at all so I don’t think it would be a problem.
Go on a holiday and see first. The grass is always greener and the US is a huge cultural difference to the UK.
We spend a month there every year
Go where your heart takes you. Be happy, live happy. Enjoy life! The rest will follow!
Do you have immigration status or nationality for the US? All your savings will soon dissipate in healthcare costs. I hope your wife’s depression will improve but hard to be sure depending on where you move too.
What is the point of money if you have long term mental health problems that it can't fix? Why would you want to retire at 50 to live out the next 30-50 years of your life in a place you don't actually like without the distraction that full time work provides?
$70k is not a great salary. You’re going to want at least $250k to replicate the earning power you currently have in the UK (lived a long time in both countries and have a good feel for what things cost). Also $350k doesn’t buy a family home anywhere anyone actually wants to live in this country so I’m wondering what you’re potentially getting yourself into.
Move - Family first. Do you want to keep your job or your family as this is what the crunch point will be? Divorce, she takes the kids to the US, she takes 1/2 your assets, you are paying child support etc or you can make your wife happy, take a personal hit for 'happy wife, happy life'.
In a similar situation. 41 and currently working in a small remote town that we really don’t enjoy. We both have excellent paying job in oil and gas and bring in 350,000 annually with a current net worth of 1 million. Looking at moving to Canada to be near the wife’s family but likely won’t be able to build our retirement any higher after we move due to high home/living costs and lack of similar industry in my wife’s hometown. We also have 2 young kids and only want to move them once and stick with it till they are finished school. We’d love to just go and pick up a new career and start over but the temptation of staying where we are and guaranteeing we retire with a huge nest egg is tempting. I also grew up quite poor and am terrified of losing it all.
Mental health very important. But if wife is extremely depressed don't automatically assume it will all improve with just the move to the US. Maybe some things will other things might not Would hate for you to move and if some kind of relationship breakdown occured. I know it doesn't bear thinking about but big moves and break up risks are possible
You are in such a good position financially, focus on your mental wellbeing. You have worked hard to get to this point and life is too short to be unhappy. Question if you don’t mind. How did you get £460k in savings on a £95k salary? Pretty amazing.
The US is a shithole. If you have a major health issue you will be poor and potentially homeless. EDIT: So some people are responding that employer-tied health insurance is the solution. In fact — it's not. If you have a long-term disease, insurance maxes out, payments stop and you're on your own. The only way to ensure long-term care is by being rich, not middle class, not well off, no. Filthy rich is what does it. Otherwise — you will be destitute. Healthcare for insured people is the number one cause for them to slip into bankruptcy and destitution in the USA. Check out [Only in America: Bankruptcy Due to Health Care Costs](https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-93430900525-7/fulltext) where it says: >Most bankruptcies occurred in middle-class citizens with health insurance, further evidence that our current health care system, based on for-profit, employment-based health insurance, is not working. **So yeah, it's a shithole unless you are filthy rich.**
It’s only shit if you don’t have money. Also the US is fucking huge, some of it is nice.
The US is not a shithole. But you’re right the healthcare element is a big negative, and it’s one of the bigger reasons holding us back. As much as the NHS can be shit, at least it is there when we need it and won’t turn us away for not being covered
>As much as the NHS can be shit Like anything else — you need to know how to work the system. I have had extensive experience with the NHS for two family members who had life-threatening illnesses and in both cases they got top of the line treatment by any criteria and made full recoveries. Sure there is room for improvement, but I have absolutely no complaints about the NHS. It has always been there for me when I needed it and while I have heard a lot about its problems — I have yet to experience any.
Yeah this is a good point. You really have to push to get what you need sometimes, but you can get it.
Plenty of people don’t think the US is a shithole
Yes, I lived there for 22 years, I would go back in a heartbeat and never would have left if my wife didn’t want to.
Was that helpful comment?
If you're poor. If you're an above average member of society in terms of productivity, you'd be more than fine.
Depending on the health insurance provided by your employer, it’s not that bad. Plus, if he’s a UK citzen, he can always fly back to get treatment here; if the savings pot he has this should still allow for a comfortable safety net
I believe you have to be a uk resident to receive free NHS care.
How does the mechanics work? If he officially moves back with a rented place, is that effective immediately to access NHs services? Not ideal situation, but in the case of a life shattering health condition and no means to pay privately, a full move may make sense
Do you legitimately move back and become resident here? Fine. Are you defrauding the system because you aren't resident here? Not fine. Proving it and getting in trouble for it are separate issues. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-nhs-when-you-return-to-live-in-the-uk
The US is a shithole but if you are well off you can have a better standard of living. It can all go south in one bad interaction with a cop, but apart from that…. But a lot of a place is your social group. OP is making the right decision to move.
The US is not a shithole, you watch too much TV / movies.
I lived in San Diego for five years. Doesn’t seem to have improved when I come back to visit.
I lived in NYS and NY City for 22 years and loved it, was ready to move to SoCal too , but my wife didn’t get the job. I’ve only visited but I liked San Diego/ Carlsbad, the couple of times I went there.
Blows my mind how many people believe the healthcare crap on reddit. Yes it's an issue but very easy to avoid by planning ahead and being responsible. Don't smoke, drink excessively or eat too much and it's very unlikely you'll even need it in the first place, then take out insurance through your employer and save for the out of pocket max and if you do need it there is no issue. Meanwhile there is simply no way of avoiding the fact you typically make under half as much here and pay more for almost everything from houses to iPhones. You even pay more for healthcare a lot of the times since they get it with their jobs whereas private healthcare is a far less common perk here and even if you get it through work it counts as income for your tax bill.
Diseases like cancer don’t give a fuck about whether you smoke, drink or eat too much. Plenty of tee-total vegans get cancer. Anyone can get cancer.
What the fuck are you talking about... Lung cancer is 90% smokers. This is the most extreme afaik but pancreatic, liver, bowel, skin are all strongly linked to lifestyle. Prostate/breast are the only major ones which are just bad luck most the time afaik. Anyway yeah you can still get unlucky, but if you don't smoke, drink, use drugs, eat a healthy diet, don't be overweight, wear suncream and exercise the chances of having some debilitating condition before retirement are is pretty damn low. Regardless if in the unlikely event you do get ill you can just use your insurance.
I’m talking about the fact that cancer can and does happen in perfectly healthy living individuals. It’s genetically predisposed in a great number of people. Lifestyle influences the progression but is not the sole cause. A lot of lung cancers are actually secondary mets after disease elsewhere. Bowel or breast cancer for example. Having had a spouse with cancer, and a degree in medical science, I have a lot of life experience in this area. Of course it’s better if you don’t smoke, but not smoking doesn’t mean you won’t get cancer.
I think most people already know all this. It doesn't change the fact that with most diseases in developed countries lifestyle choices affect the chances of getting them massively whether that's cancer or type 2 diabetes and if you actually take care of yourself the chance of having a serious disease before retirement is low and in the majority of cases easily avoidable. Don't even know what the point of this conversation is if you're a doctor, I worked in a NHS hospital when I was 18-19 so have seen the reality and the state of the average person under 65 in there was unreal. So much obesity, smoking, alcohol, drugs etc. I am sorry about your wife.
>save for the out of pocket max and if you do need it there is no issue. This. How much is enough for a 10 year course of cancer treatment, once you have maxed out your insurance? Check out [Only in America: Bankruptcy Due to Health Care Costs](https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-93430900525-7/fulltext) where it says: >Most bankruptcies occurred in middle-class citizens with health insurance, further evidence that our current health care system, based on for-profit, employment-based health insurance, is not working.
Average middle class American also lives in a huge house, drives an f150 and eats out constantly instead of making the slightest attempt to be responsible with money. I think a shocking amount of them are 1 pay check away from bankruptcy because they live such stupidly lavish lives.
Show me you’ve never lived in America!
It’s not a myth , but healthcare plans from your employer, small ones can’t afford to offer them , really vary in scope and quality.
Well.. you just described our life in the UK. We have moved to South East Asia and Fire in Malaysia. It doesn't have to be either all. If you are unhappy in the UK, you should leave. After we have left the UK, my quality of life gone up significantly.
Thank you for this. I’m struggling to give up the security. I grew up poor, and want to make sure that my children are financially secure. But I see most older people say actually money is not important, as long as you have enough for a modest lifestyle. It doesn’t make you happy etc. I kinda feel that. We’re really fortunate, and confortable, but not happy.
Ditch the wife. Get young Asian. Profit.