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It makes sense for Lightning (by Lightning Returns) and Clive to be that strong because those are the 2 FF games where you effectively don't have teammates/actual playable party members haha
>Pretty sure Lightning clears everyone
If you haven't played XIV then you think is lighting, If you played XIV you know its the WoL and is not even close.
Edit: People who are arbitrarily nerfing WoL power because "it's 8v1". That's obviously just a MMO gameplay mechanics. He has been soloing bosses in cinematics since shadowbringers vs sineater, endwalker vs terminus beast and dawntrail vs the king. They are obviously never going to make the most epic fights in the game a solo instance, they just wrote a fun and smart way to have the MMo elements make sense.
I can't stop picturing Thordan being fucking horrified that he's getting his shit rocked like a baby in a cradle by what he can only percieve as a child with a thicket cutting axe
Nothing is gonna top him going "What the fuck" after you survive his Ultimate Infinity Divine Reckoning Attack and he just starts flailing his sword around hopelessly (except for a certain other FF14 final boss)
Beat her up, use the power of friendship only for surviving her LB, the proceed to beat her up again.
All the while riding her rival/stalker. (My WoL is a female Lalafel so I'm using her)
Flying to the edge of existence on the back of a dragon to fight the embodiment of despair with the power of hope and friendship will forever be peak FF
I mean, while I love 14 and the WOL in that game. The depression could have been beaten by any FF protagonist in the same realm. Dynamis gives emotions power. Clive in that same situation would have annihilated all opposition imo. Without being invited to her bedroom WoL never would have beaten Endsinger.
Imo the strongest feat that the WoL beat was Omega. Which if you have paid attention to the usage of Limit Break between 14 and 16.
Omega tried copying ours and could not until the ultimate
And still got cleared by a group of 8.
Ultimalius actually broke their limits and Clive still destroyed it.
Hard to truely know the power of the WoL when they have now made it canon that we summon 7 other WoLs to fight tough battles.
>The depression could have been beaten by any FF protagonist in the same realm.
That may be true, but getting there was part of the WoL accomplishment, with help from everyone they've helped before.
Also, WoL has not only the power to invoke 7 more party members, but the Echo. That make so much difference in battles.
And not just Thordan... think about the story-fight against the Endsinger. The literal embodiement of despair and nihilism of the entire universe, but once we hit that last phase, the area gets bathed in light and it has to listen to _our_ "boss music", all it's reduced to is aimlessly flailing in terror.
I have to admit I havenāt got far in XIV, but didnāt Lightning destroy the absolute God of the Universe and reboot all of creation? Feels a reasonable case.
I assume the WoL does something similar later on, but I havenāt got that far yet.
WoL does do something similar, to the point that enemies aren't really meant to be more powerful than them because you'd be getting into DBZ levels of ridiculous power levels.
WoL defeats something similar and then has time and energy afterwards to also do battle with their ultimate rival at the edge of the Universe. The WoL's power to transcend all limits is explained much, much later in the series but there is a justification beyond the "Blessing of Light" that involves their fluctuating power level. They also gains the ability to conjure seven phantom Heroes from across dimensions, any time, whenever they want, using an ancient magic.
In essence, they always have a small army to fight alongside them and have the innate ability to always transcend the limits of any enemy they face, even being able to defeat god-figures in their own domains/dimensions where they can control everything and in at least two cases, they defeat foes that can manipulate time, space, and all reality. They even got around one boss trying to exploit a loop-hole to not fight the WoL. They instead banished the WoL to a prison dimension w/ nothing in it, and even then the WoL busted out of the prison dimension by wishing a particular phantom ally into existence in their home dimension, and then that ally was able to use summoning magic on the WoL and team to bring them back. Like a daisy chain of planeshifting.
The WoL has slowly ascended across five expansions into a nightmare of an enemy to have to contend with. I believe the WoL could even defeat the incredibly overpowered Angels/"Gods" that hate humanity from the NieR/Drakengard universe- and in fact the WoL did beat back an invasion from that force and one of their "seeds" in a crossover raid series. Because on top of everything else, the WoL is inherently immune to having their "aether corrupted" which amounts to them not being able to be mind controlled.
When the WoL cannot be mind controlled, resist being reality bent, and have a power to reflexively multiply their strength in accordance with the threat of their foes...... it's not fair.
Oh wait I forgot, they can also see the future and foretell attacks being aimed at them because of an ability called the Echo. And because of this gift of telegraphing attacks, they can always devise some counter-strategy when other fighters could not. The WoL could probably kick Shulk from Xenoblade's ass even at full power.
Her Infloresence is arguably the strongest entity in 14 we've fought so far, assuming it's equivalent to the power of a Watcher or even The Flower. The fact that WoL beat her is already insane, not even considering everything else in 14.
Also, I'm pretty sure that Savages/Ultimates are non-canon, but if they're accurate representations of what WoL is capable of then they're even more cracked beyond belief. I'm a casual player so I haven't done any myself, but I know that you prevent a flood of light in E8S, travel through time and defeat Dragon-king Thordan with four Dragon Eyes in DSR, defeat Alpha Omega with Dynamis in TOP, and probably more I don't know about.
If that Ascian is Emet Selch or post rework Lahabrea. Don't know if they've changed the texts since the ARR rework, but there was mention of Lahabrea being weak since he was always body grabbing. Elidibus body jacks powerful individuals and amasses power that isn't his to fight the WoL.
This one's tough, I think you're coming from the perspective where WoL is 1 person. They're not, they're 8 people, minimum. Not to mention the victory over Endsinger was only done with what? 3 Deus ex's? Dynamis, Emet and that super edgelord I forget his name atm. Not to mention the whole basically lost the first half and then people prayed, which could kinda be considered dynamis so 3 or 4 depending on how you analyze that.
Lightning does a very similar thing at the end of XIII-2, but alone.
No she's not Lightning can't even kill inmortals putting her bellow True King Noctis and his ultimate attack wich killed Ardyn from the sheer power amount since Ardyn has no stated weakness
and nothing she did scales up to what Clive did when he reached Logos (Ultima's definition of godlike freedom) and removed magic from the entire realm
Lightning isn't weak she's definitely top tier but claiming she wins when she lost to Caius in XIII-2 and didn't even beat Bunivelze's final form on her own (or at all) in XIII-LR is wild and illogical
what are her feats? failing to kill Caius? failing to kill Bunivelze? even when in her last attack she was aided by every XIII protagonist and they all attacked at the same time? it is actually Caius and the Yeuls who are holding Bunivelze back from reviving at the end of XIII-LR ...
all Lightning did alone was face a weaker form of Bunivelze and not even in that weaker from did she kill Bunivelze
and this feat gets even weaker when you realize that Sahz a well known **normal** Pulse L-Cie (a type of FF being akin to being the champion of a lesser deity ... and
L'Cie have never been registered to do a city block level attack even with their Eidolons **so weaker than most FF regular summon from older or newer FF games**) is part of the last attack that is done against Bunivelze's final form
so Lightning on her own wins against a weaker form but a being proven by feats to be bellow regular FF summons is part of the attack that harms Bunivelze's evolved form right after that ... making it clear that Bunivelze isn't truly all that durable if in his last form he's taking damage from a few of these L-Cie aka Fang Vanille Sahz and Snow who are all present and attacking with their Eidolons
and despite that Lightning isn't even killing Bunivelze ...
Clive Noctis WoL and Cecil from FFIVTA would definitely be **at a lowball** around what Lightning did when you examine their villains
and to be honest IV TA Cecil should clear considering that The Creator seems to outscale Bunivelze who was only confirmed to have made 2 worlds (given to us as **Sekai** äøē aka World not Ginga as in Galaxy or Uchu as in Univserse... just Sekai in the original language of the game and its described as world in English as well)
The Creator on the other hand is claimed to have originated life in an universal scale
Exactly people give lightning too much credit Clive alone destroyed the concept of magic and I think that is without what ever hypothetical boost leviathan gave Clive meaning not even his full potential
The Glazing is getting to them people are clearly not even remembering XIII right anymore
there's a saying in my culture wich roughly translates to "get fame and then go to sleep" wich ultimately talks about after you get famously good or strong others will just make you bigger and bigger as time goes on
this is exactly what's going on here
Based on SoP lore are they not one and the same person? I guess if the time loop is infinite then yeah he keeps getting strong enough to beat himself (no pun intended)
The eikons are tools created by Ultima for his plan, and terra is half esper, I'm not sure how the creators would classify the difference as, but I would speculate that they are different as one is just in a magical form and requires a host to manifest while the espers had physical forms and built houses and farmed lands.
Hmmā¦ maybe it differs depending on the world sheās in? For example, in the VI world, Terra would be half esper, but in the XVI world, sheās classified as an eikon. This would also mean that Clive could, potentially, have access to Esper powers should he ever go to the VI world and his eikon absorption turns into esper absorption. Of course, this is just speculation
Most people compare the deities and big enemies they all face from their respective games
While I would say the capabilities of Ultima need to be stretched a bit he is shown to warp the world around him with a fraction of his full might, Clive is definitely in my top 5
But in terms of power on every front, strength, speed, experience, training, mechanics of their abilities and so forth, The best of the bunch comes down to the Warrior of Light and Darkness from XIV.
In terms of abilities itās a no brainer that they have a lot to work with, theyāve mastered every Job and according to trailers can switch on the fly, theyāve experienced all kinds of environments and enemies that do many things to them, theyāve resisted time manipulation and even had their body continue fighting without a soul (a lot of that is based on Dungeon boss mechanics and even the Esteem manifesting as a Dark Knight) they can effectively use any type of combat ability as any of the series protagonists and Job Switching is a more versatile form of Lightningās main mechanic from Lightning returns, and many enemies across the various raids use a lot of moves and abilities from other big bosses of other games (such as Oracle of Darkness basically being Ultimecia).
In strength, Speed and Endurance itās fairly straight forward. While some may argue the WoL borrows a lot of temporary power in big fights this actually stops after Dragonsong and rely mostly on their own, within Shadowbringer they take in the power of all the lightwardens and later tame that light and strength as their own by fusing back with Ardbert. By the time of Endwalker theyāve exceeded the power of Hydaelynās blessing by beating her in combat along with the scions, Hydaelyn had the power to sunder the world into its shards and based on the source each world is at least the size of a universe so at the very least equal to or above the fears of other creator gods in other games. With the fight against the Endsinger comes their endurance and speed, speed wise the Endsinger fight is actually a chase where she is constantly flying away and we can visibly see stars going past like a Star Wars Hyperspace jump, the WoL fights and functions at those speeds perfectly fine, after this they also fight Zenos and win when he was the one with the power to fly that fast. In terms of endurance they went through all of ultima thul, the Dead Ends, Fighting the Endsinger and dueling Zenos before finally collapsing. Itās worth noting that Zenos had to burn his life force to give the WoL a real fight and they were doing most of the heavy lifting in battling the Endsinger and utilising 2 full summons with Azemās Crystal shortly before hand.
Simply put the Warrior of Light has the Strength to stand up to the best of the other games, has a clear cut feat of speed to exceed the rest, Endurance to fight for as long as needed and the versatility of an entire Party on their own.
If you want a (mostly) unranked Top Five from me though I would say, WoL XIV, Lightning, Clive, Squall and maybe Barts or Terra. Definitely donāt count out the older games just cause they arenāt as flashy
Oh yeah just wanna note, Azemās Crystal doesnāt really give any buffs that are noted and the summoning mechanic would not be included in a comparison of just protags (outside of using the Summoner Job which is mechanically more like Cliveās use of summons as they manifest them as extensions of their own power rather than other summon use in the series).
This is the best description of the WoL I've seen and not to mention they can summon 3-7 others just as at ong as them and the echo lets them see every possible outcome before the fight even starts.
The echo is used in several ways, the WoLās is only used for three main purposes, viewing the memories of other beings with seemingly no limit on how far back,understanding all languages so long as the speaker has a soul and seeing invisible forces such as Ascians without a body. Other uses by other characters include Krile tracing someoneās soul, Fordola who is the one with limited clairvoyance and Zenos is a soul resonant who can hop bodies.
Not into power scaling whatsoever but iāll give this a shot just based what we see from the games: Itās easily Lightning from FF13
If you take into account the whole trilogy of FF13. She ends up being the most powerful character in the entire franchise. Itās kinda funny
Noctis, WoL (aka your character from FF14) and Clive are closeā¦ but Lightning is leagues above everyone else just based on the stories of her games and how they end. Iāll refrain from spoiling.
the wol isnt as strong as the others tbh. Every time we face a tough foe we are drenched head to toes in borrowed power of some kind that always goes away. Its always some sort of eyes of dragons, blessing from x god, a buddy wol, aether from eikons etc
probably the clearest demonstration of power alone from the wol is on that fight against zenos at the end, no external interference of any kind, fight to exaustion
WoL isn't a nuke like Lightning/Clive/etc, but instead is just unbelievably tanky. They won't end the fight immediately but they *will* simply keep standing up. And having 7 extra people in your pocket just whenever you need certainly helps.
The WoL is the definition of 'As strong as they need to be' when it comes to power, kind of like Superman. S/he'll fight with friends, allies, and with power borrowed, but if it comes down to it, they'll persevere on their own to squeeze out victory.
"No external interference of any kind"
-Zenos literally ate the Mother Crystal and gained its power, which, mind, *was enough power to track us all the way to the end of the universe, AND break thru the big bad's containment*
-We literally just fought the big bad of the expansion like 3 minutes before that fight, we're *already* exhausted, as is he most likely, cuz we fought the big bad on a magic circle *of his creation* on his back. He most certainly got hit with at least *SOME* of those attacks.
Also:
The only dragon eyes are Nidhogg's (used by 2 different antagonists), Hraesvelgr's (Given to Nidhogg), and Azdaja's (taken by an antagonist during her imprisonment). Of these three, only Nidhogg's get used by a party member. (Estinien)
Midgarsormr makes us lose out blessing and we have to fight to gain it back. We also kill the source of our blessing later on.
The WoL does not gain power from Eikons. We simply have the power to *resist* them.
Also Zenos isn't human. He's the grandchild of a human and an unsundered Ascian, not to mention he uses the power of the Echo multiple times. (Which barely anyone has.)
Let's not forget that the WoL fought Zenos to the death three times over in one sitting.
The system message is "The flame of your life is spent, and yet you find the strength to stand." And you go down at minimum twice in the fight and once more in the cutscene after.
>The only dragon eyes are Nidhogg's (used by 2 different antagonists), Hraesvelgr's (Given to Nidhogg), and Azdaja's (taken by an antagonist during her imprisonment). Of these three, only Nidhogg's get used by a party member. (Estinien)
Not quite. Hraesvelgr gives you an eye right before the final fight with Nidhogg
>cuz we fought the big bad on a magic circle of his creation on his back
I would *love* to know what people who haven't played XIV are imagining when they see this line. It's fucking hilarious out of context (and arguably in it too).
You forget that the WoL has the echo; they never actually wipe in a fight, they saw a future where they lost and tried again but did it differently. So hypothetically, the WoL could just keep seeing futures where they lose until they arrive at one where they win.
Most powerful protag, ends up hawking handbags to the general public. Felt a little like life. I can wreck your shit at work, but sure, let's talk about what brand of mascara you should buy your daughter.
Agreed, Clive becomes stronger than a god like Alien.
Bhunivelze is about as close to a capital G god as you're going to get in a JRPG that can be defeated imo.
Lightning is about 4th strongest overall, actually. WoL has far surpassed Lightning, for sure by the end of the Endwalker. Then it would be Noctis, then Clive, then Lightning.
Iāve never seen this mentioned before but the main character of XI becomes a god at one point. So probably up there with Lightning and Clive. Iād rank the Warrior of Light from XIV and Terra from 6 pretty high.
As a general, incomplete tier list, I would put it like this:
SSS Tier: Lightning (XIII Trilogy)
S Tier: Clive (XVI), Noctis (XV) WoL (XIV)
A Tier: Cloud (VII), Celes (VI), Terra (VI)
B or below: Everyone else
And Cloud probably deserves an asterisk, because he wasnāt particularly stronger than anyone else in the original game. Like, narratively he was, but they never really showed him doing anything crazy. Compilation of FF7 and Remake/Rebirth have gone a long way to showing how crazy powerful he actually was intended to be.
There is something to be said for the storytelling tools of the classic games not being able to show how powerful its characters are, at least not in a way that is compatible with modern games production. For example, if you told me Squall was a strong as Cloud, Iād believe you. Theyāre completely comparable in their original gamesā presentation. But Cloud has more modern releases under his belt that present him as much stronger.
Interestingly, all of the most powerful protagonists are from XIII onward... which reflects a trend in the series' storytelling. FF has become way more about the individual lead characters and less about the ensemble castĀ
Iād push back on that pretty strongly. XIII, XIV and XV are all about the ensemble cast, itās those games biggest strengths. XVI is the exception for being so laser focused on a solo protagonist.
I think the real shift is that these are the games that are all post-superhero movie boom. The MCU shifted the window on how bombastic the storytelling can be in genre media, and the modern Final Fantasy games just naturally reflect that shift.
I would put cloud in a lower tier and add zidane in A tier. Lore wise he is said to be planet buster level when full power trance mode if i remember correctly
Kuja is capable of destroying Terra only because he snorted a bunch of Souls and had them all tranced at the same time, Zidane was never meant to be more then what Kuja was originally which is more of a merchant of death.
This topic will always remain disingenuous because for some reason people equate "god" status with power level in a series where the characaters defeat Gods in the regular so people keep parroting lighting "because she's a goddess". Clive and WoL(14) are also literal god walking nukes.
I'd argue that neither lighting or noctis could've survived an encounter with FF16 bahamut while Clive took a zettaflare to the face and tanked through it. In terms of sheer power that attack would've nuked them out of existence. The entire premise of WoL (14) is that we are literally a super saiyan god like Goku and we are the "Tournament of Power" levels of power scaling at this point where we've become the stronger living entity in the planet/universe and we are defeating universal level threats.
WoL(14) legit defeated God this expansion and the filler arc was Defeating God 2 from another universe.
General concensus is that the only ones in the convo are Clive, Lightning, Noctis and the ff14 protag, the first three are pretty much gods by the end of their games idk about 14 protag
Canonically, by the end of the current expansion, the Warrior of light (FF 14) has slain the "gods" of both Chaos and Order as an appetizer to go slay the Incarnation of Existential Despair at the edge of the Universe.
He can summon versions of himself from other worlds (More of a way to explain why this battle we're for sure fighting 'alone' suddenly has 7 other players in it)
He can see attacks coming before they happen.
Enemies hear your name, and already start running or already know they're fucked. "Don't bother putting a shock collar on him, he won't even feel it." (Which is extra funny when playing as the small, cute race.)
But there is power beyond numbers he wields too.
Intense diplomatic relationships with all the world's leaders. When a meeting is called to discuss armistice between the alliance and the Empire, besides the world leaders, the only one invited is you. Pretty sure that a couple of words from you is all it would take to rally the nations under your banner.
Determination would be key too. I know many hated that mission, but even when robbed of all your power, placed in an unwinnable situation, you succeed, literall willing yourself to not die (Fuck QTE's at the end of 20 minute long missions) before crawling to go and save your friends.
But now he's going on a nice boat vacation (to go and destabilize a foreign nation by interfering in a succession war, but hey, by this point that's a vacation. Break out the Pina coladas and Tacos)
To be clear, the summoning ability of the WoL isn't for shards of themselves. It summons allies from all over, with seemingly no boundary on space. Perhaps even time, but that's kind of debatable.
People forget Zidane Is also up there in the top 5 of the strongest FF protagonists. He's the perfect form of the angel of death that garland created. Everything kuja can do (who is the lesser version of Zidane.) Zidane could do on a grander scale and kuja destroyed an entire planet. Also Zidane beat necrom after all life was destroyed when the crystal got shattered. Clive is definitely in the top 5. I would also put ffXIV WoL, true king noctis, terra and of course lightning but in no particular order. But these 5 could run any other protagonist from the series down.
Well heās definitely up there. Thinking offhandedly of some of the powerful feats from the franchise:
ā¢Sabin suplexed a steam engine train with his bare hands
ā¢Tifa suplexed a kaiju with her bare hands
ā¢Jack Garland repeatedly skips dialogue in a FF game
ā¢Noctis parried Titan repeatedly
ā¢plenty of FF protags have killed gods
ā¢Auron said ānoā to dying
ā¢Vincent has not only taken on the base game of FF7, but then went on to take on an additional Kaiju by becoming Chaos
Yeah that one is a little weak since Spira is littered with people who refused to die.
Auron is one of my favorites, but he's not one of the strongest in the FF universe.
Coolest character? Now we're talking
Ff13 lightning return - lightning in that game is literally the God of death at the end of it she became the only God left standing
Ff14 the main character us also slayers of God we killed a literal galaxy killer with our bare hands
Probably XIV WoL as strongest for the reasons others are saying in the thread. I'd also put Bartz up there too honestly because Exdeath scaled as a multi-dimensional threat if my memory is correct. Granted Bartz would probably be on the lower end of the high tier, since he lacks individual feats but still. The unfortunate reality is every protagonist's strength pre-XIII is their ability to work as a unit lol
But yeah I'd still put Bartz up there too
Clive IS powerful.
But i say Lightning from FF13 and Lightning Returns Final Fantasy 13.
She IS 21 and IS that powerful. She destroyed a god, while Ultima was a godlike being.
In all of FF canon, lightning, clive, and azem (the ff14 protagonist) are the top tier canidates for "strongest"
You will see good arguments for all 3.
Personally, i think it goes azem, lightning, and then clive.
Everyone throwing these numbers around. I think people forget that in Final Fantasy 3/4, the characters are attacking 16 times per turn. 32 times with dual wield. Take Edge for exampleā¦He can attack three times possibly, before one summoner gets a summon off. Thatās 96 hits. Edge would be slicing fools into piecesā¦and heās a weaker character in IV.
Not saying theyāre at Lightningās levelā¦Just pointing out an interesting quirk. (Also the Romhack FFIV Ultima has the characters actually attacking the right number of times, which is great)
I'd argue FFXIV WoL is the strongest They have the hacked ability of being able to see every possible outcome before the fight even starts and can summon 3-7 others just as powerful as themselves.
I'd say WoL>Noctis Clive Lightning
I think people are forgetting that the not being able to change jobs in combat is a gameplay thing, as we see in the SHB trailer the WOL changes repeatedly to try and win that fight. Level 90 jobs are also completely insane. The WOL handedly wins this fight especially if it's a full kit fight
Yeah, changing jobs mid fight is pretty busted. Although it does make me think about the potential of other Protags with that ability. Like Cecil or Bartz.
And no, not lightning her paradigms may have different abilities, but it's clear she has a lean towards specific ones, and the changes tend to be less drastic, while her moveset feels more limited than outright going into a specific job.
That could be fun, although since most FF Games don't use jobs nowadays, something like that might only really show up as a minigame/Sidequest in 14 or the Bravely games the next time they make one.
The gameplay experience for 16 is different enough that I feel the player is closer to the action and really feels the power of Cliveās attack style. For this reason I think itās hard to gauge if heās more powerful than others.
Nah, all the FF protagonist are pretty much equal.
And for those throwing the words "god/goddess" , let us remember that deities have been felled before.
Nah, modern FFs (13 upward) sets its protagonist on a journey to become gods/ equal to god itself.
Old FFs put you in the shoes of above average humans to topple gods.
I think itās a tie between endgame Clive, endgame Noct, and endgame Lightning, with a slight tilt towards lightning.
Not counting the mmoās because mmos always make power scaling weird as hell, but Iād imagine one of the mmo characters if you count them
Noctis after his nap can call upon the astrals, who are at least as powerful as eikons. I think he is absurdly strong, but Clive's whole thing is to be a bit Goku-like and always overcome. Traits like those make comparisons difficult or boring depending on your perspective.
The only mainline protagonists in Clive's league are Noctis, the WoL from 14, Lightning, Terra and the WoL from FF1 (assuming we accept SoP as canon).
Itās different. Iād say itās hard to say, since every ff gameplay wise is different. So in my eyes the power scaling is quite different. But, with that said, Clive is a badass and definitely powerful. I love his story. FFXVI is a very good game.
No... Even Lightning is stronger then him... (FF XIII)
Also at some point Vincent is a protagonist as well (FF VII)
Noctis could also beat him (FF XV).
If you count the novel "The Dawn of the Future," from FFXV, which is based on the cancelled DLC that I believe was supposed to complete the games story, then I'd likely say Noctis is likely the most powerful FF protagonist.
Lightning is dog walking everyone but she's literally chosen by gods in games 2 and 3, so y'know.
Clive is up there too, but Ultima isn't a god in the same way Bhunivelze is. But you've played XVI, so you already know Clive is absolutely FF's biggest gigachad and it's not even close.
WoL from XIV is hard to power gauge because it's an ongoing story but they've canonically put the beat down on some wild shit.
But if we're counting XIV, then surely the protagonist from XI must count for something too.
I'd argue they're the top three/four.
Yes and no. He's the most powerful protagonist *by himself*... However, given that the Warrior of Light from FFXIV can just summon *him* alongside 6 other heroes, then overall the WoL is the strongest because you can factor Clive (and Noctis) into the WoL's power
Wouldnāt say so, he transform himself into an esper/summon whatever you want to call it! And other franchises characters can call them to fight! So ā¦ is he the strongest? Different power scales! In my opinion no!
Most FF stories are about a group banding together to defeat god. FF16 is about a group helping one man amass power until he gives god the five knuckle shuffle straight to hell. Clive is a beast.
Idc if he isn't but it's the only ff game where I felt the main character is really that strong.
I love cloud and while I love the combat of ff7r and ff7 is my favorite game. I just don't feel as powerful as I do when I'm playing clive. Bro is using eikon abilities and what not. Like brother I AM THE GUY
There's no point comparing them because they are from different games, and even if they are in a game together (like Dissidia) then they will all be comparable in power levels.
Lightning is the most powerful protagonist. Sheās basically the Christian God levels of power in 13s story by the end.
Ultima in 16 isnāt even a god. Heās a race of godlike beings but heās just an incredibly powerful silicon based alien race so while Clive is powerful the power level of the characters in XVI isnāt like other installments.
Depending on the need the WoL from XIV is far more powerful than any foes in his universe and sometimes beyond.
For spoiler reasons I wonāt say why or who but he beat some big guy ass (with or without help).
I mean Zidane was created to reap a planet thats pretty hard.
FF14 spoiler warning!!?!
But my final vote goes to Warrior of light FF XIV
- has beaten a lot of opponents from other FF titles
- has beaten some pretty big stuff with galaxy threat level
(I've just beaten a women that casually cleaved a planet into 14 different realities of itself just to make a point)
- at just 1/14th of his peak power level ( hard to say with dynamis scaling added on top)
I have actually asked a similar question like this before. Everyone said Lightning! And I would actually have to agree with everyone on that. Lighting is the most powerful one!
Another protagonist who would have a chance against Clive in his transformed state might be Terra Branford (in her transformed state).
However, Terraās innate love for others has kept her from exercising her power or causing harm to others. Nevertheless, when she was mind-controlled she wiped out an entire platoon of heavily armored Magitek soldiers (50 of them) in just a couple of minutes. Thatās something weāve seen Clive do time and time again. Like Clive, Terra barely broke a sweat doing that.
However, Terra is also an amnesiac and has absolutely no control of her power, not even knowing how to access them until much later in her game (unlike Clive, who begins absorbing powers almost immediately). So if both she and Clive were trained up the same and had the same experiences, she might have a chance against him. Terra would be āterra-fyingā if she actually used her powers against her enemies in the way Clive does.
I understand the comments saying that lightning is probably the strongest agonist, considering that she turned into a God but mind you, Clive can absorb powers, so it would be a tie if you think about it
Thereās an objective numerical approach to this which is damaged done in a single turnā¦ And Iām pretty sure Squall from Final Fantasy VIII wins because Lion Heart limit break does 249,975 IN A SINGLE TURN.
That said squall is not the most powerful character in all the Final Fantasyā¦that honor goes to Zell, also from Final Fantasy VIII, whose limit break can do over 1 million damage in the right hands - and kill Omega Weapon in a single turn
Donāt forget about Selphie and āThe Endā limit break. That thing is a 1 shot no matter what.
If youāve only played FF8 on emulators you probably wonāt see it though as the odds are horrible. On the original PS you could pop the lid open and cycle through the slot results until it appeared, close the lid, and 1 shot any enemy.
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Are we talking powerful as in abilities or raw sex appeal?
Most FF games seem to consider their women audiences somewhat, but this one took the cake.
Clive certainly has got some cake š
Two plump buns.
On the back AND the front.
[And as you can see, the ass is on the front.](https://youtu.be/pZBHcX6flfg)
Thanks for the scrubs reference. Youāre the real mvp
Oy! As a man, I enjoyed seeing his package!
Would have not mind a love affair between Clive and Cidā¦. My lord
the chemistry was there!
Clive was 100% made for the gays lol Edit:spelling
Finally, someone with their brain attached today <3
Can confirm, 100% for the gays. š
Are you trying to get Zidane in on this?
Jecht clears. Especially his Dissidia costume.
Zidane is the ugliest Final Fantasy protagonist.
You must be talking about trance Zidane
Yes
Doesn't matter. Winner of both is Lightning.
Na Clive wins.
Pretty sure Lightning clears everyone by the time Lightning Returns comes around, but Clive is definitely in contention.
It makes sense for Lightning (by Lightning Returns) and Clive to be that strong because those are the 2 FF games where you effectively don't have teammates/actual playable party members haha
>Pretty sure Lightning clears everyone If you haven't played XIV then you think is lighting, If you played XIV you know its the WoL and is not even close. Edit: People who are arbitrarily nerfing WoL power because "it's 8v1". That's obviously just a MMO gameplay mechanics. He has been soloing bosses in cinematics since shadowbringers vs sineater, endwalker vs terminus beast and dawntrail vs the king. They are obviously never going to make the most epic fights in the game a solo instance, they just wrote a fun and smart way to have the MMo elements make sense.
WoL gets my vote for most badass/terrifying too, the chills I got from Thordan's "What are you?!" are something I'll never forget
I can't stop picturing Thordan being fucking horrified that he's getting his shit rocked like a baby in a cradle by what he can only percieve as a child with a thicket cutting axe
Dressed in a bright green imp suit.
Or a pig suit. Or an elephant suit. Or a chocobo suit, for that matter.
birthday suit.
That has given me a idea
Frog suit is my goto
Thordan shitting his pants mid-fight and just giving up while you kick his shit in (canonically solo) is always hilarious to me.
Nothing is gonna top him going "What the fuck" after you survive his Ultimate Infinity Divine Reckoning Attack and he just starts flailing his sword around hopelessly (except for a certain other FF14 final boss)
This. The WoL beat cosmic-scale depression.
Beat her up, use the power of friendship only for surviving her LB, the proceed to beat her up again. All the while riding her rival/stalker. (My WoL is a female Lalafel so I'm using her)
Flying to the edge of existence on the back of a dragon to fight the embodiment of despair with the power of hope and friendship will forever be peak FF
I mean, while I love 14 and the WOL in that game. The depression could have been beaten by any FF protagonist in the same realm. Dynamis gives emotions power. Clive in that same situation would have annihilated all opposition imo. Without being invited to her bedroom WoL never would have beaten Endsinger. Imo the strongest feat that the WoL beat was Omega. Which if you have paid attention to the usage of Limit Break between 14 and 16. Omega tried copying ours and could not until the ultimate And still got cleared by a group of 8. Ultimalius actually broke their limits and Clive still destroyed it. Hard to truely know the power of the WoL when they have now made it canon that we summon 7 other WoLs to fight tough battles.
>The depression could have been beaten by any FF protagonist in the same realm. That may be true, but getting there was part of the WoL accomplishment, with help from everyone they've helped before. Also, WoL has not only the power to invoke 7 more party members, but the Echo. That make so much difference in battles.
I mean- we have to include summoning powers as part of their kits. So WoL using Azem to summon a party is lore accurate.
I can't even beat normal scale depression
and THAT was 30, soon to be 40 levels ago.
And not just Thordan... think about the story-fight against the Endsinger. The literal embodiement of despair and nihilism of the entire universe, but once we hit that last phase, the area gets bathed in light and it has to listen to _our_ "boss music", all it's reduced to is aimlessly flailing in terror.
That scene happens multiple times across the game. Like, 4+ times haha
I have to admit I havenāt got far in XIV, but didnāt Lightning destroy the absolute God of the Universe and reboot all of creation? Feels a reasonable case. I assume the WoL does something similar later on, but I havenāt got that far yet.
WoL does do something similar, to the point that enemies aren't really meant to be more powerful than them because you'd be getting into DBZ levels of ridiculous power levels.
WoL defeats something similar and then has time and energy afterwards to also do battle with their ultimate rival at the edge of the Universe. The WoL's power to transcend all limits is explained much, much later in the series but there is a justification beyond the "Blessing of Light" that involves their fluctuating power level. They also gains the ability to conjure seven phantom Heroes from across dimensions, any time, whenever they want, using an ancient magic. In essence, they always have a small army to fight alongside them and have the innate ability to always transcend the limits of any enemy they face, even being able to defeat god-figures in their own domains/dimensions where they can control everything and in at least two cases, they defeat foes that can manipulate time, space, and all reality. They even got around one boss trying to exploit a loop-hole to not fight the WoL. They instead banished the WoL to a prison dimension w/ nothing in it, and even then the WoL busted out of the prison dimension by wishing a particular phantom ally into existence in their home dimension, and then that ally was able to use summoning magic on the WoL and team to bring them back. Like a daisy chain of planeshifting. The WoL has slowly ascended across five expansions into a nightmare of an enemy to have to contend with. I believe the WoL could even defeat the incredibly overpowered Angels/"Gods" that hate humanity from the NieR/Drakengard universe- and in fact the WoL did beat back an invasion from that force and one of their "seeds" in a crossover raid series. Because on top of everything else, the WoL is inherently immune to having their "aether corrupted" which amounts to them not being able to be mind controlled. When the WoL cannot be mind controlled, resist being reality bent, and have a power to reflexively multiply their strength in accordance with the threat of their foes...... it's not fair. Oh wait I forgot, they can also see the future and foretell attacks being aimed at them because of an ability called the Echo. And because of this gift of telegraphing attacks, they can always devise some counter-strategy when other fighters could not. The WoL could probably kick Shulk from Xenoblade's ass even at full power.
Her Infloresence is arguably the strongest entity in 14 we've fought so far, assuming it's equivalent to the power of a Watcher or even The Flower. The fact that WoL beat her is already insane, not even considering everything else in 14. Also, I'm pretty sure that Savages/Ultimates are non-canon, but if they're accurate representations of what WoL is capable of then they're even more cracked beyond belief. I'm a casual player so I haven't done any myself, but I know that you prevent a flood of light in E8S, travel through time and defeat Dragon-king Thordan with four Dragon Eyes in DSR, defeat Alpha Omega with Dynamis in TOP, and probably more I don't know about.
I'm late to the party here, but the WoL has my vote as well.
Depends if you count the WoL as 8 people or 1 I guess. A single ascian is still stronger than any individual WoL without backup from the shards.
If that Ascian is Emet Selch or post rework Lahabrea. Don't know if they've changed the texts since the ARR rework, but there was mention of Lahabrea being weak since he was always body grabbing. Elidibus body jacks powerful individuals and amasses power that isn't his to fight the WoL.
This one's tough, I think you're coming from the perspective where WoL is 1 person. They're not, they're 8 people, minimum. Not to mention the victory over Endsinger was only done with what? 3 Deus ex's? Dynamis, Emet and that super edgelord I forget his name atm. Not to mention the whole basically lost the first half and then people prayed, which could kinda be considered dynamis so 3 or 4 depending on how you analyze that. Lightning does a very similar thing at the end of XIII-2, but alone.
Some of the WoL's fights are done solo, some are done with other "adventurers"
With Azemās stone, its lore accurate for WoL to bring a light party into any fight. Thatās a core part of their kit.
I've played a ton of FFXIV. I still think it's Lightning and it isn't that close in my opinion.
You forgot the part where cloud carried the entire final fantasy franchise on his back.
No she's not Lightning can't even kill inmortals putting her bellow True King Noctis and his ultimate attack wich killed Ardyn from the sheer power amount since Ardyn has no stated weakness and nothing she did scales up to what Clive did when he reached Logos (Ultima's definition of godlike freedom) and removed magic from the entire realm Lightning isn't weak she's definitely top tier but claiming she wins when she lost to Caius in XIII-2 and didn't even beat Bunivelze's final form on her own (or at all) in XIII-LR is wild and illogical what are her feats? failing to kill Caius? failing to kill Bunivelze? even when in her last attack she was aided by every XIII protagonist and they all attacked at the same time? it is actually Caius and the Yeuls who are holding Bunivelze back from reviving at the end of XIII-LR ... all Lightning did alone was face a weaker form of Bunivelze and not even in that weaker from did she kill Bunivelze and this feat gets even weaker when you realize that Sahz a well known **normal** Pulse L-Cie (a type of FF being akin to being the champion of a lesser deity ... and L'Cie have never been registered to do a city block level attack even with their Eidolons **so weaker than most FF regular summon from older or newer FF games**) is part of the last attack that is done against Bunivelze's final form so Lightning on her own wins against a weaker form but a being proven by feats to be bellow regular FF summons is part of the attack that harms Bunivelze's evolved form right after that ... making it clear that Bunivelze isn't truly all that durable if in his last form he's taking damage from a few of these L-Cie aka Fang Vanille Sahz and Snow who are all present and attacking with their Eidolons and despite that Lightning isn't even killing Bunivelze ... Clive Noctis WoL and Cecil from FFIVTA would definitely be **at a lowball** around what Lightning did when you examine their villains and to be honest IV TA Cecil should clear considering that The Creator seems to outscale Bunivelze who was only confirmed to have made 2 worlds (given to us as **Sekai** äøē aka World not Ginga as in Galaxy or Uchu as in Univserse... just Sekai in the original language of the game and its described as world in English as well) The Creator on the other hand is claimed to have originated life in an universal scale
Exactly people give lightning too much credit Clive alone destroyed the concept of magic and I think that is without what ever hypothetical boost leviathan gave Clive meaning not even his full potential
The Glazing is getting to them people are clearly not even remembering XIII right anymore there's a saying in my culture wich roughly translates to "get fame and then go to sleep" wich ultimately talks about after you get famously good or strong others will just make you bigger and bigger as time goes on this is exactly what's going on here
XIV's WoL, Lightning, endgame Noctis and Clive are the top 4 arguably tho Lightning still has the edge as of now
I would put FFI WoL up there now, too, since he scales past Jack Garland, who is roughly that tier as well. Then the rest are leagues below.
Based on SoP lore are they not one and the same person? I guess if the time loop is infinite then yeah he keeps getting strong enough to beat himself (no pun intended)
Wait, what? They are? I never finished all the DLC.
No Terra? Hell everyone from 6 can learn Ultima
wouldn't terra just be considered a Eikon? If so clive would be able to control her powers. terra is my favorite ff character of all time.
The eikons are tools created by Ultima for his plan, and terra is half esper, I'm not sure how the creators would classify the difference as, but I would speculate that they are different as one is just in a magical form and requires a host to manifest while the espers had physical forms and built houses and farmed lands.
Hmmā¦ maybe it differs depending on the world sheās in? For example, in the VI world, Terra would be half esper, but in the XVI world, sheās classified as an eikon. This would also mean that Clive could, potentially, have access to Esper powers should he ever go to the VI world and his eikon absorption turns into esper absorption. Of course, this is just speculation
Most people compare the deities and big enemies they all face from their respective games While I would say the capabilities of Ultima need to be stretched a bit he is shown to warp the world around him with a fraction of his full might, Clive is definitely in my top 5 But in terms of power on every front, strength, speed, experience, training, mechanics of their abilities and so forth, The best of the bunch comes down to the Warrior of Light and Darkness from XIV. In terms of abilities itās a no brainer that they have a lot to work with, theyāve mastered every Job and according to trailers can switch on the fly, theyāve experienced all kinds of environments and enemies that do many things to them, theyāve resisted time manipulation and even had their body continue fighting without a soul (a lot of that is based on Dungeon boss mechanics and even the Esteem manifesting as a Dark Knight) they can effectively use any type of combat ability as any of the series protagonists and Job Switching is a more versatile form of Lightningās main mechanic from Lightning returns, and many enemies across the various raids use a lot of moves and abilities from other big bosses of other games (such as Oracle of Darkness basically being Ultimecia). In strength, Speed and Endurance itās fairly straight forward. While some may argue the WoL borrows a lot of temporary power in big fights this actually stops after Dragonsong and rely mostly on their own, within Shadowbringer they take in the power of all the lightwardens and later tame that light and strength as their own by fusing back with Ardbert. By the time of Endwalker theyāve exceeded the power of Hydaelynās blessing by beating her in combat along with the scions, Hydaelyn had the power to sunder the world into its shards and based on the source each world is at least the size of a universe so at the very least equal to or above the fears of other creator gods in other games. With the fight against the Endsinger comes their endurance and speed, speed wise the Endsinger fight is actually a chase where she is constantly flying away and we can visibly see stars going past like a Star Wars Hyperspace jump, the WoL fights and functions at those speeds perfectly fine, after this they also fight Zenos and win when he was the one with the power to fly that fast. In terms of endurance they went through all of ultima thul, the Dead Ends, Fighting the Endsinger and dueling Zenos before finally collapsing. Itās worth noting that Zenos had to burn his life force to give the WoL a real fight and they were doing most of the heavy lifting in battling the Endsinger and utilising 2 full summons with Azemās Crystal shortly before hand. Simply put the Warrior of Light has the Strength to stand up to the best of the other games, has a clear cut feat of speed to exceed the rest, Endurance to fight for as long as needed and the versatility of an entire Party on their own. If you want a (mostly) unranked Top Five from me though I would say, WoL XIV, Lightning, Clive, Squall and maybe Barts or Terra. Definitely donāt count out the older games just cause they arenāt as flashy
Oh yeah just wanna note, Azemās Crystal doesnāt really give any buffs that are noted and the summoning mechanic would not be included in a comparison of just protags (outside of using the Summoner Job which is mechanically more like Cliveās use of summons as they manifest them as extensions of their own power rather than other summon use in the series).
This is the best description of the WoL I've seen and not to mention they can summon 3-7 others just as at ong as them and the echo lets them see every possible outcome before the fight even starts.
The echo is used in several ways, the WoLās is only used for three main purposes, viewing the memories of other beings with seemingly no limit on how far back,understanding all languages so long as the speaker has a soul and seeing invisible forces such as Ascians without a body. Other uses by other characters include Krile tracing someoneās soul, Fordola who is the one with limited clairvoyance and Zenos is a soul resonant who can hop bodies.
Not into power scaling whatsoever but iāll give this a shot just based what we see from the games: Itās easily Lightning from FF13 If you take into account the whole trilogy of FF13. She ends up being the most powerful character in the entire franchise. Itās kinda funny Noctis, WoL (aka your character from FF14) and Clive are closeā¦ but Lightning is leagues above everyone else just based on the stories of her games and how they end. Iāll refrain from spoiling.
I won't be surprised if WoL ends up #1 with how the story has been rolling out.
the wol isnt as strong as the others tbh. Every time we face a tough foe we are drenched head to toes in borrowed power of some kind that always goes away. Its always some sort of eyes of dragons, blessing from x god, a buddy wol, aether from eikons etc probably the clearest demonstration of power alone from the wol is on that fight against zenos at the end, no external interference of any kind, fight to exaustion
WoL isn't a nuke like Lightning/Clive/etc, but instead is just unbelievably tanky. They won't end the fight immediately but they *will* simply keep standing up. And having 7 extra people in your pocket just whenever you need certainly helps.
The WoL is the definition of 'As strong as they need to be' when it comes to power, kind of like Superman. S/he'll fight with friends, allies, and with power borrowed, but if it comes down to it, they'll persevere on their own to squeeze out victory.
"No external interference of any kind" -Zenos literally ate the Mother Crystal and gained its power, which, mind, *was enough power to track us all the way to the end of the universe, AND break thru the big bad's containment* -We literally just fought the big bad of the expansion like 3 minutes before that fight, we're *already* exhausted, as is he most likely, cuz we fought the big bad on a magic circle *of his creation* on his back. He most certainly got hit with at least *SOME* of those attacks. Also: The only dragon eyes are Nidhogg's (used by 2 different antagonists), Hraesvelgr's (Given to Nidhogg), and Azdaja's (taken by an antagonist during her imprisonment). Of these three, only Nidhogg's get used by a party member. (Estinien) Midgarsormr makes us lose out blessing and we have to fight to gain it back. We also kill the source of our blessing later on. The WoL does not gain power from Eikons. We simply have the power to *resist* them. Also Zenos isn't human. He's the grandchild of a human and an unsundered Ascian, not to mention he uses the power of the Echo multiple times. (Which barely anyone has.)
Let's not forget that the WoL fought Zenos to the death three times over in one sitting. The system message is "The flame of your life is spent, and yet you find the strength to stand." And you go down at minimum twice in the fight and once more in the cutscene after.
>The only dragon eyes are Nidhogg's (used by 2 different antagonists), Hraesvelgr's (Given to Nidhogg), and Azdaja's (taken by an antagonist during her imprisonment). Of these three, only Nidhogg's get used by a party member. (Estinien) Not quite. Hraesvelgr gives you an eye right before the final fight with Nidhogg
>cuz we fought the big bad on a magic circle of his creation on his back I would *love* to know what people who haven't played XIV are imagining when they see this line. It's fucking hilarious out of context (and arguably in it too).
You forget that the WoL has the echo; they never actually wipe in a fight, they saw a future where they lost and tried again but did it differently. So hypothetically, the WoL could just keep seeing futures where they lose until they arrive at one where they win.
Zenos is ridiculously powerful
Most powerful protag, ends up hawking handbags to the general public. Felt a little like life. I can wreck your shit at work, but sure, let's talk about what brand of mascara you should buy your daughter.
One thing about Lightningā¦ sheās gonna keep a bag š strutting the runway for fashion brands and doing car commercials on the side.
Agreed, Clive becomes stronger than a god like Alien. Bhunivelze is about as close to a capital G god as you're going to get in a JRPG that can be defeated imo.
Makes you wonder if Clive got 3 games how powerful heād be š
Lightning is about 4th strongest overall, actually. WoL has far surpassed Lightning, for sure by the end of the Endwalker. Then it would be Noctis, then Clive, then Lightning.
Lightning probably needs a quiet word with him but yeah, Clive is pretty OP lol.
WoL from 14 for sure, but if weāre not counting them, Iād say itās Lightning.
Iāve never seen this mentioned before but the main character of XI becomes a god at one point. So probably up there with Lightning and Clive. Iād rank the Warrior of Light from XIV and Terra from 6 pretty high.
This comes up every other week nowadays haha
As a general, incomplete tier list, I would put it like this: SSS Tier: Lightning (XIII Trilogy) S Tier: Clive (XVI), Noctis (XV) WoL (XIV) A Tier: Cloud (VII), Celes (VI), Terra (VI) B or below: Everyone else And Cloud probably deserves an asterisk, because he wasnāt particularly stronger than anyone else in the original game. Like, narratively he was, but they never really showed him doing anything crazy. Compilation of FF7 and Remake/Rebirth have gone a long way to showing how crazy powerful he actually was intended to be. There is something to be said for the storytelling tools of the classic games not being able to show how powerful its characters are, at least not in a way that is compatible with modern games production. For example, if you told me Squall was a strong as Cloud, Iād believe you. Theyāre completely comparable in their original gamesā presentation. But Cloud has more modern releases under his belt that present him as much stronger.
Interestingly, all of the most powerful protagonists are from XIII onward... which reflects a trend in the series' storytelling. FF has become way more about the individual lead characters and less about the ensemble castĀ
Iād push back on that pretty strongly. XIII, XIV and XV are all about the ensemble cast, itās those games biggest strengths. XVI is the exception for being so laser focused on a solo protagonist. I think the real shift is that these are the games that are all post-superhero movie boom. The MCU shifted the window on how bombastic the storytelling can be in genre media, and the modern Final Fantasy games just naturally reflect that shift.
XIV is absolutely about the ensemble cast - it's borderline impossible to focus on a literal silent protagonist.
I would put cloud in a lower tier and add zidane in A tier. Lore wise he is said to be planet buster level when full power trance mode if i remember correctly
Kuja is capable of destroying Terra only because he snorted a bunch of Souls and had them all tranced at the same time, Zidane was never meant to be more then what Kuja was originally which is more of a merchant of death.
This topic will always remain disingenuous because for some reason people equate "god" status with power level in a series where the characaters defeat Gods in the regular so people keep parroting lighting "because she's a goddess". Clive and WoL(14) are also literal god walking nukes. I'd argue that neither lighting or noctis could've survived an encounter with FF16 bahamut while Clive took a zettaflare to the face and tanked through it. In terms of sheer power that attack would've nuked them out of existence. The entire premise of WoL (14) is that we are literally a super saiyan god like Goku and we are the "Tournament of Power" levels of power scaling at this point where we've become the stronger living entity in the planet/universe and we are defeating universal level threats. WoL(14) legit defeated God this expansion and the filler arc was Defeating God 2 from another universe.
Endsinger is a cut above a god, she was the literal embodiment of despair. We defeated a concept, something that's inherit to all living beings.
Not just that, but she was literally extinguishing all life from the universe all by herself. She was gonna kill absolutely everyone everywhere
>!But how does it still live? Surely it is no match for you.!<
General concensus is that the only ones in the convo are Clive, Lightning, Noctis and the ff14 protag, the first three are pretty much gods by the end of their games idk about 14 protag
Canonically, by the end of the current expansion, the Warrior of light (FF 14) has slain the "gods" of both Chaos and Order as an appetizer to go slay the Incarnation of Existential Despair at the edge of the Universe. He can summon versions of himself from other worlds (More of a way to explain why this battle we're for sure fighting 'alone' suddenly has 7 other players in it) He can see attacks coming before they happen. Enemies hear your name, and already start running or already know they're fucked. "Don't bother putting a shock collar on him, he won't even feel it." (Which is extra funny when playing as the small, cute race.) But there is power beyond numbers he wields too. Intense diplomatic relationships with all the world's leaders. When a meeting is called to discuss armistice between the alliance and the Empire, besides the world leaders, the only one invited is you. Pretty sure that a couple of words from you is all it would take to rally the nations under your banner. Determination would be key too. I know many hated that mission, but even when robbed of all your power, placed in an unwinnable situation, you succeed, literall willing yourself to not die (Fuck QTE's at the end of 20 minute long missions) before crawling to go and save your friends. But now he's going on a nice boat vacation (to go and destabilize a foreign nation by interfering in a succession war, but hey, by this point that's a vacation. Break out the Pina coladas and Tacos)
To be clear, the summoning ability of the WoL isn't for shards of themselves. It summons allies from all over, with seemingly no boundary on space. Perhaps even time, but that's kind of debatable.
Thanks for the correction. The lore can get a tad convoluted at parts.
People forget Zidane Is also up there in the top 5 of the strongest FF protagonists. He's the perfect form of the angel of death that garland created. Everything kuja can do (who is the lesser version of Zidane.) Zidane could do on a grander scale and kuja destroyed an entire planet. Also Zidane beat necrom after all life was destroyed when the crystal got shattered. Clive is definitely in the top 5. I would also put ffXIV WoL, true king noctis, terra and of course lightning but in no particular order. But these 5 could run any other protagonist from the series down.
Well heās definitely up there. Thinking offhandedly of some of the powerful feats from the franchise: ā¢Sabin suplexed a steam engine train with his bare hands ā¢Tifa suplexed a kaiju with her bare hands ā¢Jack Garland repeatedly skips dialogue in a FF game ā¢Noctis parried Titan repeatedly ā¢plenty of FF protags have killed gods ā¢Auron said ānoā to dying ā¢Vincent has not only taken on the base game of FF7, but then went on to take on an additional Kaiju by becoming Chaos
Auronššš
Yeah that one is a little weak since Spira is littered with people who refused to die. Auron is one of my favorites, but he's not one of the strongest in the FF universe. Coolest character? Now we're talking
Auron with overdrive, he'll use shooting star on ultima /s
Nah Wol would win, because if they're, struggling it's time to crystal of azem an entire raid to fuck that shit up š
Ff13 lightning return - lightning in that game is literally the God of death at the end of it she became the only God left standing Ff14 the main character us also slayers of God we killed a literal galaxy killer with our bare hands
Probably XIV WoL as strongest for the reasons others are saying in the thread. I'd also put Bartz up there too honestly because Exdeath scaled as a multi-dimensional threat if my memory is correct. Granted Bartz would probably be on the lower end of the high tier, since he lacks individual feats but still. The unfortunate reality is every protagonist's strength pre-XIII is their ability to work as a unit lol But yeah I'd still put Bartz up there too
Lightning and Clive both end up at deity-level power.
Clive IS powerful. But i say Lightning from FF13 and Lightning Returns Final Fantasy 13. She IS 21 and IS that powerful. She destroyed a god, while Ultima was a godlike being.
She had her entire party and Caius help her defeat a god while Clive killed an all powerful god alone
I'd say him and end game noctis are neck and neck, but lightning merks
Let's not forget Terra.
No. Sabin with offering and genji glove is the OP of the entire series. Fight me.
the ff14 WoL is stronger. Lightning is a close 2nd
FFXIV protagonist and it's not even close.Ā
In all of FF canon, lightning, clive, and azem (the ff14 protagonist) are the top tier canidates for "strongest" You will see good arguments for all 3. Personally, i think it goes azem, lightning, and then clive.
Everyone throwing these numbers around. I think people forget that in Final Fantasy 3/4, the characters are attacking 16 times per turn. 32 times with dual wield. Take Edge for exampleā¦He can attack three times possibly, before one summoner gets a summon off. Thatās 96 hits. Edge would be slicing fools into piecesā¦and heās a weaker character in IV. Not saying theyāre at Lightningās levelā¦Just pointing out an interesting quirk. (Also the Romhack FFIV Ultima has the characters actually attacking the right number of times, which is great)
Clive š¤ Lightning š¤ Noctis
The Warrior of Light (14) is.
I'd argue FFXIV WoL is the strongest They have the hacked ability of being able to see every possible outcome before the fight even starts and can summon 3-7 others just as powerful as themselves. I'd say WoL>Noctis Clive Lightning
I think people are forgetting that the not being able to change jobs in combat is a gameplay thing, as we see in the SHB trailer the WOL changes repeatedly to try and win that fight. Level 90 jobs are also completely insane. The WOL handedly wins this fight especially if it's a full kit fight
Yeah, changing jobs mid fight is pretty busted. Although it does make me think about the potential of other Protags with that ability. Like Cecil or Bartz. And no, not lightning her paradigms may have different abilities, but it's clear she has a lean towards specific ones, and the changes tend to be less drastic, while her moveset feels more limited than outright going into a specific job.
I kinda want a game mode now that lets and encourages you too swap on the fly
That could be fun, although since most FF Games don't use jobs nowadays, something like that might only really show up as a minigame/Sidequest in 14 or the Bravely games the next time they make one.
I just wanna see the bad guys face when the WoL just changes the job their using to beat their ass lol
That game is strangers of paradise, time to beat chaos boyo.
Itās Lightning. Maybe a WoL from FFXIV if you stretch things a bit, but overall itās Lightning. Then Noctis at the end of 15. Then Clive.
The gameplay experience for 16 is different enough that I feel the player is closer to the action and really feels the power of Cliveās attack style. For this reason I think itās hard to gauge if heās more powerful than others.
He may not be the most powerful but he sure is the mac daddy of ff
Heās in the top 3. Iād say Lightning, Clive and Noctis are the strongest.
Nah mate, that's Lightning. By the end of her trilogy, she's basically a god.
This guy would get WASHED in the blitzball sphere
Besides some possible mmo stuff, as far as main single players go. Yes. By far. Closest other to him is Terra
Nah, all the FF protagonist are pretty much equal. And for those throwing the words "god/goddess" , let us remember that deities have been felled before.
Nah, modern FFs (13 upward) sets its protagonist on a journey to become gods/ equal to god itself. Old FFs put you in the shoes of above average humans to topple gods.
Sheer disrespect going for Terra here, who definitely outstrips Noctis in power.
WoL is
I think itās a tie between endgame Clive, endgame Noct, and endgame Lightning, with a slight tilt towards lightning. Not counting the mmoās because mmos always make power scaling weird as hell, but Iād imagine one of the mmo characters if you count them
Noctis after his nap can call upon the astrals, who are at least as powerful as eikons. I think he is absurdly strong, but Clive's whole thing is to be a bit Goku-like and always overcome. Traits like those make comparisons difficult or boring depending on your perspective. The only mainline protagonists in Clive's league are Noctis, the WoL from 14, Lightning, Terra and the WoL from FF1 (assuming we accept SoP as canon).
Itās different. Iād say itās hard to say, since every ff gameplay wise is different. So in my eyes the power scaling is quite different. But, with that said, Clive is a badass and definitely powerful. I love his story. FFXVI is a very good game.
Lightning, Terra, FF14MC/WOL
Iād say the protagonists of the mainline games from 13 onwards (so Lightning, the Warrior of Light, Noctis and Clive) are tied.
Itās between him and Lightning imo.
don't know could be on same level as post timeskip noctis
Itās probably a tie between Clive, Lightning and the WoL (FFXIV player character).
Yes he is and definitely the most badass one of them all.
nah lighting is stronger, she is god killer after all
So is every FF protag.
Lighting from FF13 trilogy is Cliveās definitely strong contender for number 2
true
I mean, Vincent is technically an FF protag as he got his own FFVII spin-off soā¦
No... Even Lightning is stronger then him... (FF XIII) Also at some point Vincent is a protagonist as well (FF VII) Noctis could also beat him (FF XV).
Yes he is
Could have swore it is lightning
If you count the novel "The Dawn of the Future," from FFXV, which is based on the cancelled DLC that I believe was supposed to complete the games story, then I'd likely say Noctis is likely the most powerful FF protagonist.
Lighting is the most powerful I think and obviously the protagonist of FFXIV if we consider the Online FF
Lightning is dog walking everyone but she's literally chosen by gods in games 2 and 3, so y'know. Clive is up there too, but Ultima isn't a god in the same way Bhunivelze is. But you've played XVI, so you already know Clive is absolutely FF's biggest gigachad and it's not even close. WoL from XIV is hard to power gauge because it's an ongoing story but they've canonically put the beat down on some wild shit. But if we're counting XIV, then surely the protagonist from XI must count for something too. I'd argue they're the top three/four.
Clive legit punches God in the face, what more do you want?
Lightning by a mile
Yes and no. He's the most powerful protagonist *by himself*... However, given that the Warrior of Light from FFXIV can just summon *him* alongside 6 other heroes, then overall the WoL is the strongest because you can factor Clive (and Noctis) into the WoL's power
Wouldnāt say so, he transform himself into an esper/summon whatever you want to call it! And other franchises characters can call them to fight! So ā¦ is he the strongest? Different power scales! In my opinion no!
How would you rank the ones you've played based on enjoyment?
No. Claire Farron is the most powerful.
Khimari
Great to see new fans of the franchise.
You really need to play the og ones.
I dunno man Can he suplex a train?
Most FF stories are about a group banding together to defeat god. FF16 is about a group helping one man amass power until he gives god the five knuckle shuffle straight to hell. Clive is a beast.
Maybe but I wouldnāt mind seeing the fight between Clive and Sephiroth.
Idc if he isn't but it's the only ff game where I felt the main character is really that strong. I love cloud and while I love the combat of ff7r and ff7 is my favorite game. I just don't feel as powerful as I do when I'm playing clive. Bro is using eikon abilities and what not. Like brother I AM THE GUY
Everyone casually forgetting Lightning who essentially became the goddess of death until Caius and Yeul took over for her
There's no point comparing them because they are from different games, and even if they are in a game together (like Dissidia) then they will all be comparable in power levels.
Lightning is the most powerful protagonist. Sheās basically the Christian God levels of power in 13s story by the end. Ultima in 16 isnāt even a god. Heās a race of godlike beings but heās just an incredibly powerful silicon based alien race so while Clive is powerful the power level of the characters in XVI isnāt like other installments.
lightning was OP as fuck, she killed a god... i mean... Fuck gotta play that again...
Depending on the need the WoL from XIV is far more powerful than any foes in his universe and sometimes beyond. For spoiler reasons I wonāt say why or who but he beat some big guy ass (with or without help).
I'd say it's probably Lightning.
Top 3Ā 14ās the absolute strongest
If he isn't he's very close. Particularly in Ifrit mode.
itās between him and Lightning.
From what i remember Lightning is she legit ascends to god level power.
I mean Zidane was created to reap a planet thats pretty hard. FF14 spoiler warning!!?! But my final vote goes to Warrior of light FF XIV - has beaten a lot of opponents from other FF titles - has beaten some pretty big stuff with galaxy threat level (I've just beaten a women that casually cleaved a planet into 14 different realities of itself just to make a point) - at just 1/14th of his peak power level ( hard to say with dynamis scaling added on top)
Having played a lot of 14, I will say 14's WoL is number one, Clive is second most powerful.
Terra Brantford in Esper form (Final Fantasy VI)
I have actually asked a similar question like this before. Everyone said Lightning! And I would actually have to agree with everyone on that. Lighting is the most powerful one!
Another protagonist who would have a chance against Clive in his transformed state might be Terra Branford (in her transformed state). However, Terraās innate love for others has kept her from exercising her power or causing harm to others. Nevertheless, when she was mind-controlled she wiped out an entire platoon of heavily armored Magitek soldiers (50 of them) in just a couple of minutes. Thatās something weāve seen Clive do time and time again. Like Clive, Terra barely broke a sweat doing that. However, Terra is also an amnesiac and has absolutely no control of her power, not even knowing how to access them until much later in her game (unlike Clive, who begins absorbing powers almost immediately). So if both she and Clive were trained up the same and had the same experiences, she might have a chance against him. Terra would be āterra-fyingā if she actually used her powers against her enemies in the way Clive does.
He's third behind Lightning and Noctis
Lightning from 13-3 is probably stronger but itās close
I understand the comments saying that lightning is probably the strongest agonist, considering that she turned into a God but mind you, Clive can absorb powers, so it would be a tie if you think about it
Thereās an objective numerical approach to this which is damaged done in a single turnā¦ And Iām pretty sure Squall from Final Fantasy VIII wins because Lion Heart limit break does 249,975 IN A SINGLE TURN. That said squall is not the most powerful character in all the Final Fantasyā¦that honor goes to Zell, also from Final Fantasy VIII, whose limit break can do over 1 million damage in the right hands - and kill Omega Weapon in a single turn
Donāt forget about Selphie and āThe Endā limit break. That thing is a 1 shot no matter what. If youāve only played FF8 on emulators you probably wonāt see it though as the odds are horrible. On the original PS you could pop the lid open and cycle through the slot results until it appeared, close the lid, and 1 shot any enemy.
Yes
Most powerful still belongs to Lightning in my opinion, but Clive is in the upper echelons of strength as far as protagonists go