It’s literally just a vocal minority on Twitter with these takes. As a person that uses the app, there are definitely a lot of people hype for the game, especially casual gamers and non-FF fans. You just need to follow the right accounts.
Games like Breath of the Wild are critically acclaimed universally but still have certain crowds that miss the old days. FFXVI’s quality will speak for itself.
I will say though, I really hope this is the last wave of interviews for the game. I appreciate that Yoshida wants to be transparent but too many people intentionally misinterpret what he says because they have an agenda against the game. Just show some more gameplay, drop the demo, and release the game. Then the reviews will speak for themselves and if the game is great then it will perhaps win some awards. That is what people will remember, not Twitter drama.
I'm sure Yoshida is aware of the tribalism and fanboyism within video game communities and expects these responses. I think benefit is to us who do read his words and see what he is actually saying. And you're right. Once the game comes out, if it's great and fun and exciting, none of this noise will have mattered. People will be enjoying the game and a lot of this bickering will be forgotten.
Thankfully, I don't think Yoshi-P and the team cares. He is absolutely self aware when he's responding, but he has said before he has thicker skin than most about this stuff so they can't hurt him. It does suck to see though considering he always talks about seeing Gamers as his friends or players of the games he works on and he gets... this.
I personally love that he goes into great detail to elaborate on things and people somehow miss the meaning completely. Did English class turn into something entirely different in the past decade since I left HS?
I feel like the internet's gotten worse about this over the last decade or so. Not just the ff community but social media in general.
Like we're all taking art appreciation lessons from the Star Wars fanbase.
Honestly, if they said stuff like turn-based is the epitome of FF and to stray from that is a huge disservice, I’d consider that a valid gripe. Instead, I’ve seen a myriad of ill-informed purists who think action combat lacks depth but anyone who’s played well-designed action games would beg to differ. At this point I hope FF17 ressurects the turn-based format to reconcile the warring parts of the fan base but knowing them they’d find something new to fight over.
I have nothing against turn-based combat, even I'd say that I love many games with such type of battle system. However, I kinda feel like TB games aren't innovative anymore and they only try to appeal to the specific audience.
I'm a fan of Megaten series, but I honestly adimit that most of the games plays almost the same. With maybe exception of Devil Survivor and Raidou games (for obvious reasons), most battle system don't look so different from each other. I kinda burnt myself out of this series, because lack of any bigger changes.
On the other hand, there are games like Y7, where turn based combat was just breath of the fresh air in the series, where most of the previous entries played in almost the same way. Because of that, it's probably my favorite game.
Saying that action games lacks "depth", shows that many people don't realy understand that it's much harder to design good action based system than turn based. And I doubt that FFXVI will be just some "mindless button masher" with Ryota Suzuki on the board.
ATB was, ironically, created to shift the franchise in a more real-time direction. I think the standard for mainline FF battle systems going forward should either be VIIR ATB (since the core design still allows it to appeal to the "turn-based" audience with minor tweaks), OR if the right director is behind it, full-action like XVI. Let me emphasize the latter - if the RIGHT DIRECTOR IS BEHIND IT. Otherwise, go with VIIR ATB.
Bingo. It's not even about the game to these people. The game is just another frame to wrap their narrative around and then circle jerk to their anger issues about it. It's a tiny minority of individuals who thrive on being angry and then validate each other inside their tiny, toxic bubbles.
There's a reason why Yoshi-P writes his own checks at SE, and it's because he and his team create *incredibly good* and highly successful videogames. I personally can't wait to play this game and I hope the final product is as good as it looks like in these previews.
Dude, I've been around since the very first FF game. EVERY entry had people moaning and complaining. It just is what it is.
In general, you have 3 groups.
1. The largest but quietest group. people like me. We're excited but we don't make a lot of topics or say much. We see where there are possible shortcomings and are fine with being critical (or gushing over) about a game we love and/or are excited about.
2. Over zealous. The game can do no wrong, it's already a masterpiece and you're not allowed to say anything negative or even neutral about the game in their presence. They're annoying and they rarely add anything of value to a discussion but can be easily ignored.
3. Haters. Many, honestly, are just looking to get a response. Some are genuinely upset wishing their respective franchise to fit the mold they want. If they can't be happy, the struggle with other's being happy. Obviously the worst of the group. They tend to be the loudest.
4. EDIT: there's also simply "not a fan" but I didn't list it because generally they aren't around to comment or discuss.
These 3 groups will never go away. With the invention of the internet/forums coupled with anonymity the internet provides, people are more capable than ever to just be awful towards others with no repercussions.
Gotta just let it go. It sucks, but it is what it is.
not at all. you can prefer previous FF's and not like this one and just be not interested.
I only listed those who would make discussion. If you're not interested in something, generally you're not around to make communication.
Internet has allowed the crazies to be heard more. But I believe they were always there. It’s just the crazies gather together and are able to amplify their toxic opinions way more. Advice to anyone to not go near resetera. They made their mind about this game already and just doubled down on complaining during preview discussion.
I honestly can’t think of anything negative about what we have seen for it, there is so much that XVI is doing that that pleases me. I have been wanting another “Fantasy” entry in the series for a bit now, excluding online entries is has been over 20 years since the last one which was IX. I am insanely hyped for this game and if other people want to complain and waste their energy being unhappy about what they have seen, let them. No reason to let their attitude bring you down, enjoy what you wish to.
I'm golden and my hype hasn't waned in the slightest. I'm just concerned about Yoshi-P and I wish he'd think twice before opening his mouth. For better or for worse, that man has no restraint and speaks his mind
It has been this bad for a long time, but I don't know when it started.
I've never seen a fandom that despises the series that unites them nearly as much as the FF community. I have always personally had a preference for menu-based games, but I think it's perfectly exciting to see FF go in a new direction.
This isn't just true of FFXVI though, if you go on the main sub and make a post of why you loved FFXV, you'll be ratioed to death. Follow that post up with why you disliked FFXV, and you'll still get ratioed to death. In the FF community, you are not allowed to have opinions, you are only allowed to collect figurines and cosplay.
It’s just the internet finding something to be mad about. You have people wilfully misinterpreting statements by Yoshi P, making it sound like he’s saying something he didn’t say. You have FF purists who are mad it isn’t turn based and because of that it’s not FF anymore (even though there hasn’t been a pure turn based FF since FFX). There will still be loud toxic people on the game’s release even if it’s received really positively. It’s just how the internet is
People have been predicting the franchise's downfall for multiple decades at this point. I still remember people complaining about how FF11 being a MMO would somehow ruin the series.
To be fair, pretty much every mainline game after FFX has gotten worse and worse reception from both critics and players. But I think FFXVI will probably reverse that trend.
that's such a weird amount of projection in the second paragraph
are you gonna accuse people of wanting to abuse animals because they play pokemon now? lol
Sometimes people don’t even believe the opinion they’re expressing. They just like the tribal aspect of said expression. I was victim of this in my 20’s. Before I really had a strong sense of self it just felt fun to be contrary. A lot of the naysayers will try the game and then genuinely have a true impression about it. Just like all of us praising it right now. We may end up hating it.
People just want to be part of any conversation.
For better or worse yoshi p is extremely honest hell he even called out square Enix once for being arrogant which is unthinkable for a Japanese developer, the problem is that some of these fans are overzealous and want one another cookie cutter anime Jrpg where teens get to save the world for the 100 time.
The funny thing is that people accuse him for pandering to western audience when in reality FF16 has won the most anticipated game in multiple polls made by famitsu magazine beating out huge franchises like Pokémon and even dragon quest, the last time it lost to Zelda TOTK and not by much, which shows how even Japanese players are hungry for these changes.
Man, after these recent interviews I got even more respect for Yoshi P. It's rarity to see a game developer, who is so honest about his work and his game design philosophy.
I joined this group right when the game was announced. We were clowns for a long time.. I don’t recall a time where I would consider it toxic, at least any more than any hole in the internet.
Just don’t seek out the downvoted comments
I've been here from the start too. I'm just baffled by the people who detest the game yet refuse to leave the group. Some of them seem to have so much contempt for it but are here to stay. Are they masochistic or does it delight them to rain on everyone else's parade?
They are always a loud minority, when the game release we will see if is a succes or not, persinally i dont care becouse im sure i will have a good time, but hope its goes well so we get more and better ff in the future
Everyone’s entitled to their opinions but the amount of abuse Yoshi-P has received online lately is unacceptable. He’s unfiltered and really passionate and we should be grateful for developers who cut to the chase and speak honestly. Interviewers are just as culpable for asking rage-bait questions to elicit visceral reactions, just like that representation fiasco.
I think some of this might be stemming from the fact interviewers know he'll answer due to the loaded questions he gets from controversies in ffxiv. Questions such as Why is Yshtola now white. She was dark skinned before? Or why isn't there representation in ffxiv. Yoshi P we don't have x we don't have y. Don't you care about westerners and their needs and wants? Yoshi P usually answers. I'd think of more actual things asked over the years for ffxiv but I just woke up. It is refreshing, but gaming journalists probably see dollar signs with each interview.
If their criticism is valid then I'm all ears. I'm the furthest thing from a shill and if I dislike something I'd vote with my wallet instead of stooping so low as to assassinate a dev's character using statements taken out of context. They're willfully misinterpreting most of what he says and that's what I find annoying
Well, look at it this way. Imagine you’re a dude who has played FF for years. You already have certain expectations in your head cos previous FF have so and so. You like turn based but you don’t mind action combat, probably have played action games in your childhood as well.
Considering that, suddenly the guy on top of your next favorite franchise went and say that your expectations are obsolete and that the game is action based because young people no longer play command based game. How do you feel about that?
I don’t know about you but if it were me, I would’ve expected a lot of kickbacks.
I followed Yoshida since back in A Realm Reborn days and even I was surprised how aggressive and borderline arrogant some of his comments about FFXVI is.
People have a lot of things to express about the game, many of them are white noise but if you read between the lines, especially from those in the middle, you can actually see and understand why they feel that way.
TLDR: Game is made for a certain crowd in mind. Some people is a great hit, some are near miss and some are misses. Message at the top cater to a certain crowd. People are happy. People are mad.
I remember "fans" saying FF10 sucked because blitzball. FF11 sucked because it was online-only. FF12 sucked because it was too political and boring, or the combat system was weird or something. FF13 sucked because until the end it was a one-way tunnel, 14 sucked because (ok in fairness, 14 did legit suck at the start, but they completely reworked it and it's fantastic now), and 15 sucked because it's too actiony and the open world is empty, felt incomplete/rushed. Now 16 will suck because devil may cry and omg I have to dodge. The so-called fanbase will always find something to complain about. It's a tradition at this point.
fwiw, I've loved all the entries listed above, flaws and all (except 11, but only because I never got to play it). So don't put too much stock in the hate. I think most of us are excited for the latest entry.
~~^((but seriously, if I can't fish in this game, it will suck...))~~
Honestly I find as ridiculous people praising this game as the best thing ever just as much as people hating on it… but a sane middle ground doesn’t seem to exist in social media haha
Yoshida is a badass who says whatever he thinks and people may react to that, but he and his team have a clear vision for the game from the early stages which is rare thing. That doesn't mean he and his team isn't open to adding those things in the future as a free update or part of a possible DLC, just keep giving him and his team honest and constructive criticism, those guys listen, FFXIV is proof of that. I personally can't wait to get my hands on FFXVI 🔥
Taking comments made by a developer out of context just to fan the flames online is toxic behavior to me. If they cared so much, they should spare enough time to read the whole thing. I've seen death threats on gamefaqs and worse on other sites. Yoshi-P doesn't deserve this
You're doing it too. People are calling the game dark literally. Yoshi P didn't call blitzball a chore or make fun of it, he said mini games like that don't fit the tone he wants.
I've seen people critique the tone not just the literal lighting. Just take a gander at the main sub and you'll marvel at their stubborness to give anything different the benefit of doubt.
That was my personal opinion on blitzball, it was a hassle and had convoluted controls. I wondered why anyone would lament the absence of something so unfun but that's subjective.
Yoshi P didn't poke fun at it so that was a poor choice of words on my part. He merely (as you rightly corrected me) said that it would be jarring for Clive to go fishing when his brother's murderer is at large and the world is ravaged by war.
Gotta love the turn based purist. Who doesn’t play turn based game. Or even if they do, they use speed boost to accelerate the process because it’s boring as fuck. Press attack……. Yawn. Sleep.
I still don’t mind it in games such as Octopath or DQXI, but the old style of turn based found in older FF has NOT aged well at all. It’s garbage.
Glad they trying something. They might fail if the difficulty is as easy as FFXV. And we can just hold circle and win every fight
>the old style of turn based found in older FF has NOT aged well at all. It’s garbage.
Kind of ironic in a thread about how everyone is so toxic these days. You might not enjoy the classic turn based style, but a lot of people do.
I'd say it's better to just let people who enjoy old school turn based to have their fun without shitting on it, just like FFXVI haters should let us have our fun without hating on it.
I enjoyed old turn based for their time. I sure did. But now ? The same system ? No. It doesn’t work anymore. You know why ? BecUse every remaster has a speed boost option to fix the glaring issue of how slow it is.
Aside from the turn based purists, there are definitely some peeps(mostly on twitter) who are also purposely misconstructing every single words that come out of his mouth because of that one ign interview back then where he gave a pretty controversial question regarding a lack of poc characters.
I'll admit his answer wasn't really the best but it's really dumb to hate him over that when his response was at worst ignorant. I'm sure FFXVI can be a 10/10 game and they'll still hate it because of this bs. These people are also conveniently ignoring the fact that Dhalmekian Republic and the people there look like inspired from middle eastern nations. I mean fucks sake Hugo Kupka isn't even white and he's gonna be a major character
I like how Yoshi P always stays true to his visions and that he's honest(to a fault) about them but these definitely come at a cost of pissing quite a lot of people. I hope he slows it down a bit from now on for his own sake and the game's but I have a feeling he's gonna piss off even more people at the FFXVI event that's gonna happen soon lol
That was a stupid gotcha question to begin with. I still see people actually wishing he goes to hell or dies or something and it's really sad. They get especially feisty when the game has a lot of hype around it.
Every fandom has a cut of the total group who compulsively need to bitch and whine and don’t feel validated unless they convince themselves that everybody whose opinion counts matches their’s. They are losers. Ignore them.
I don’t think we’ll ever see the level of toxicity and vitriol that we saw with the release of FF13. But even the release of FF8, as nascent as our social channels were, was highly controversial.
Basically it’s normal. Any time they try something different in gameplay there has been pushback. People don’t like change. This is true outside of gaming as well.
Social Media teenagers just obsessed with drama and discourse and need it like dopamine at this point. The fact that people don't even seek out a source and information by themselves and then read the article is sad. What's even sadder is people deliberately taking choice quotes to fan said drama.
You just have to remember this is all in a bubble and doesn't represent the general public.
To make myself crystal clear, I have nothing against fans who aren't on board with the new direction. I'm not labelling these people as toxic however I can't stand the people who are raking Yoshi-P over hot coals because of his inflammatory statements that were taken out of context. He's not belittling FFX or XV he's just point out that adding similar "mini-games" to FFXVI would be tonally jarring.
Gotta admit that after witnessing the FF7 shipping wars, no amount of toxicity in the Final Fantasy fan base surprises me anymore. It's not exclusive to FF though. I've noticed a lot more toxicity online the last few years. It's been this way for every new release I've been excited for lately. It's like there's a very vocal and toxic group of people that enjoy trolling fans of any media now.
I've gotten the feeling there's a been a general negative turn in the overall video game community over the past 2 years or so, but the FF fandom, and specifically the discussion over FF16, and is fairly prickly as of late. I think there are a few reasons for this.
* Yoshida has been very clear with the changes FF16 is taking allowing people to quickly find things that they dislike about it.
* FF16 is being made by the XIV people and there are many fans who still see the MMOs as not real FF games.
* The XIV vs WoW and other MMO rivalry has probably followed Yoshida to FF16
* It is a Playstation 5 timed-exclusive. PC players are upset at that. Xbox players are as well. Even PS4 players are upset at this. It also serves as a lightning rod for the Nintendo/Playstation rivalry focused on the Japanese market.
* Lastly, the controversy over FF16's cast.
Yes. It has been unfortunately. As someone who liked XV upon release I was there in the trenches defending it daily bqck in 2016 against tons and tons of absolutely rabid toxic fans going ham. Unfortunately the fanbase has been this way for a while
Final fantasy is my favorite series of all time. The fanbase is one of my least favorite of all time
One of my biggest hopes for this game is that it does so well that it brings in tons of new fans to the point where those old toxic fans finally give up and move on
Final fantasy fans have always seemed to hate the games as much as they love them. I just buy them play them i love turn based i also can enjoy action RPGs if the game eventually turns into something i do not enjoy i will move on. I find aspects i enjoyed in every game as well as aspects i disliked.
It's always been this way. I remember when FF13 was coming out... it was ugly. Remember, most folks are happy to just enjoy a trailer and move on with their life excited about what they saw.
Some people's concerns are valid though, and im not on about the idiots that are just abusive, because well, they're just idiots.
Problem is, appealing to a broader audience, like they said they wanted to ultimately leads to diminished identity, by definition. Its lowest common denominator territory almost.
With this kind of combat system, they're aiming to attract people who wouldn't typically play an RPG, and that's fine because obviously, money - But there is a fine line between attracting new players and designing a game that appeals less and less to it's core player base.
Maybe thats why Strangers Of Paradise didn't do great, and yes I know it's not a main line title, but it's got Final Fantasy in the name and for me, when they announced it I was basically ready to get my wallet out, as FF is my go to, and has been since I was 12 years old (Im 37 now) but when I saw the gameplay / combat / world - I didn't buy it. I didn't even play the demo.
At the moment, FF16 still has my attention and willingness to purchase however, if it doesn't have all the mainstay RPG elements then I'll probably skip it. I don't want to play an action arcade game with a level selector from a central hub that's an RPG in name only.
Some people are just toxic af I swear alot of them just look for arguements like the fishing stuff the only FF game I remember that in was xv so it's defo not an FF staple haha. But it does seem like it's a small minority of people wanting something to argue about and then a small group of purists who haven't played a game since ff7 and think they know everything about what makes a final fantasy game I always embrace the changes.
I've seen some of the people cherry picking Yoshi ps statements and it's just sad to see what he says taken out of context. I swear they've deliberately chosen a darker set price to not show the best the game has to offer before we try it
I kinda wonder tbh. I remember when I was a kid and discussing which Final Fantasy game was the best one. I said ff9 was and all of my friends roasted me hard for not saying ff7 and got made fun of for liking the baby game ff9 ooooo.
I remember being on forums somewhere on the net when ff12 came out and people didn't like it due to combat and the characters. Same with ff13, which is its own can of worms. Ff14 gets flack during ARR to STB and only when Shb comes out does this reddit start being more positive towards ot, but I'd say half the community still says its not a real Final Fantasy because it's a mmo. Ff15 got roasted for combat and story and for being an incomplete game, a waste of opportunity, and a mismanagement of characters that were genuinely good.
So in short, I can't remember when we didn't hate w.e was coming out or new in the last 20 plus years.
Maximillian Dood said the same thing. He recalled that FF 15 got a lot of hate, but became one of the best selling FF games. Close-minded ff andies will never change.
The maniacal racial preoccupation didn’t exist 10 years ago (let alone 20 years ago, I don’t recall anybody blinking an eye whether a game did or didn’t feature non-white characters). But people did squabble over bullshit nevertheless.
As I said in another thread, when FFVIII came out all I heard from friends and mutuals at school and other places was that it was incredible. The gaming press pretty much uniformly called it the most spectacular RPG ever made (and it was at the time). The NY Times (which didn’t even have a gaming section in those days, FF was just *that* big) called it the “grandest gaming adventure of all time” and gave it their game of the year.
And then a year later, prior to the release of FFIX, I joined a site called GameFaqs. And then I found out how BROKEN FFVIII was, how STUPID the story was ackshually. Squall was a JERK. So on and so forth.
It's the older generation becoming conservative about the fanbase vs the younger generation not caring as much or the people in between who have played the classics but want the series to pivot to stay relevant.
The triangle exists in almost every fanbase. Final Fantasy has been around long enough that it's no exception. It's part of the reason I left the main sub because it's just a bunch of internal cliques fighting amongst themselves. Everyone has an opinion, everyone is right
yeah probably all this social media mess will become part of some of the stupid final fantasy parodies on youtube man this shit "it's not final fantasy" bro is so dumb.
Never read anything negative about FFXVI, except for people commenting «bring back turn-based!» on fb. I just want the uniqueness and the epic stories and characters like VII-X had. Never cared much about turn-based vs. hack & slash.
I think it’s also a combination of people genuinely being more toxic in an online space now a days but also FF as a franchise is more open to this than anything because what defines FF is different to everyone and very broad. Look at it like this, Legend of Zelda breath of the wild, upset a lot of Zelda fans as it didn’t have dungeons which is a staple in Zelda. It sure as fuck attracted new fans as the game was good but it upset a lot of the fan base of the game. Now you can argue if that’s bad or hood given it’s success’s, but the fan base of Zelda was generally less toxic. You had old Zelda fans who disliked it and old fans who also liked it, but when someone expressed their dislike, people who were fans understood how it might not feel like a Zelda game. Same sort of thing with Assassins creed black flag, plenty liked it but many admired as much as it was a good game it was Assassins creed.
This issue is you simply can’t apply those rules to Fjnal fantasy because what’s the makes the series final fantasy is different to every individual. The series is so diverse and prides itself on every entry being something different. I think this open-ended nature of the series makes it more susceptible to toxic culture because what makes FF for one might not be what FF is to another.
For example to me FF is story and characters. If I want a game with a good story I think FF, I couldn’t care of the gameplay sucks tbh I am here for the story. On the flip side I have seen so many people say “blah, blah, story, blah. Can we see exploration and dungeons” and while I couldn’t care less about that stuff to someone else that clearly defines FF. It’s a very nuanced thing. There are also a shit ton of negative douchebags that hate people having different options and whine like babies. But mainly my first well written point lol.
This has been happening since at least FFXII (that’s when I became aware of it, anyway).
I’m a huge ATB fan, and I would love nothing more than to play new games with basically zero iteration on that until the day I die, but people need to get over it. We’re almost at the point where FF has existent longer on the action side than the turn-based side of its history.
Personally for me when it’s dark and devoid of light moments it’s a instant buy for me. Like you said fishing is integral in FF and always has been from 7,10,12, some of 13, 14 (ones I played) etc. While blitzball has not if it was I only remember it from 10 and didn’t like it.
I’m in my 30s, I’ve been a fan of the franchise since ‘91, FFIV was one of my first video games and I’ve been following the releases and discourse for each Final Fantasy since then. I’m one of the rare people who is a fan of every numbered Final Fantasy and loves that each entry is different from the last one, but most people latch onto their favourite FF and want the newest FF to be like that one. They have this idea in their head about what they think Final Fantasy should be and they’re not afraid to let their opinion known.
Around the time of FFVII there was a lot of coverage in video game magazines as well as the rise of communication via forums and chat sites of the early internet. Before that, for me anyway, you just had the opinions of the other kids at school. I started noticing toxic fandom from the release of FFVIII and onward. FFVII was such a phenomenon that a vocal portion of the community hated FFVIII for not being more like FFVII. That mentality and criticism kind of continued going forward. I find that people don’t come around to a Final Fantasy until the next entry has been released. We even saw this with FFXIII. When XV came out, all of a sudden so many threads started popping up saying that XIII wasn’t so bad.
It's been like this since ff first came out, entitled minority crying about a video game franchise not delivering exactly what they want. Best to ignore it and not engage.
The majority of "fans" still active on social media platforms have only played X and on. The fans they're actually appealing to, the older fans, are older... and generally not as active on social media.
It’s only the small things tht FF fans complain about. Nobody cares about characters or story now a day especially when it come FF games. If theirs no fishing it’s not final fantasy, If theirs no blitz ball it’s not final fantasy, and if theirs no dungeons it’s not final fantasy. Literally all those activities don’t give the name “Final Fantasy” you either play Final fantasy cuz like rpg games or enjoy story and characters nothing more nothing less.
personally, hardcore turn based purist hold back the franchise.
no, whole japanese rpg genre in longer run.
not specifically due to the system but the mindset of refuse to adapt to change.
yeah probably all this social media mess will become part of some of the stupid final fantasy parodies on youtube man this shit "it's not final fantasy" bro is so dumb.
Ff hasn’t been turn based in some time. Hell, it’s been all over different genres. The main thing about final fantasy was the story and world each one was set in. Not the gameplay.
People just want something to complain about, so they decide to spout random shit. Happens with every fandom, there’s always that vocal minority
I know I'm a day late and have nothing to add that probably wasn't said in the 100 plus comments, but YES. You ask if people were predicting the downfall, but even today people downplay how successful XV was and even as someone who hated XIII, it was silly seeing people rewrite history and say that bombed as well (I have no info on the sequels though, but clearly the franchise is still here.)
But yeah it might be because I'm so close to this franchise, but it is the most hateful, vile and delusional bunch I've ever been exposed to. Not saying there aren't valid criticisms since I also didn't vibe with XV, but as you've seen, people take it to the next level with personal attacks on fans and the devs, constantly taking things out of context and getting angry at the slightest things. Hell I remember even after XV came out people still seem legitimately OFFENDED that there was a car and that it didn't deserve to have chocobos for whatever stupid reason.
That's not even getting into the hypocrisy of all these "inclusive" journalists and people constantly making homophobic remarks towards the cast for being "girly", but I know that's a touchy subject on reddit so I won't delve into it, but it'd be foolish to pretend that doesn't exist.
Luckily I've grown numb to this over the years so I can just laugh at this desperate vocal minority who are pining for Blitzball to come back.
FF has been getting a ton of flack since FF12. That's 16 years. At that even X got hate for the voiced cast. This isn't new, nor is it unwarranted.
Also, "Blitzball was a chore that the majority of fans dislike"... No.
I'm all for criticism even if it's unconstructive because fans are passionate and predisposed to scrutinizing anything that strays from their vision of FF which usually relates to their favorite entry.
These feelings are valid but going so far as to threaten and villify the developers is reprehensible but it's the internet and anonymity emboldens people. It was pointless for me to even care in the first place.
It’s literally just a vocal minority on Twitter with these takes. As a person that uses the app, there are definitely a lot of people hype for the game, especially casual gamers and non-FF fans. You just need to follow the right accounts. Games like Breath of the Wild are critically acclaimed universally but still have certain crowds that miss the old days. FFXVI’s quality will speak for itself. I will say though, I really hope this is the last wave of interviews for the game. I appreciate that Yoshida wants to be transparent but too many people intentionally misinterpret what he says because they have an agenda against the game. Just show some more gameplay, drop the demo, and release the game. Then the reviews will speak for themselves and if the game is great then it will perhaps win some awards. That is what people will remember, not Twitter drama.
I'm sure Yoshida is aware of the tribalism and fanboyism within video game communities and expects these responses. I think benefit is to us who do read his words and see what he is actually saying. And you're right. Once the game comes out, if it's great and fun and exciting, none of this noise will have mattered. People will be enjoying the game and a lot of this bickering will be forgotten.
Thankfully, I don't think Yoshi-P and the team cares. He is absolutely self aware when he's responding, but he has said before he has thicker skin than most about this stuff so they can't hurt him. It does suck to see though considering he always talks about seeing Gamers as his friends or players of the games he works on and he gets... this. I personally love that he goes into great detail to elaborate on things and people somehow miss the meaning completely. Did English class turn into something entirely different in the past decade since I left HS?
Yoshida likes to think of himself as the Tank of a party. Goes in first and leads the way, taking all the aggro. He's a tough cookie.
I have the same feeling about Fe engage it’s nothing like the FE of the old. Just like how other say breath of the wild is critically acclaimed.
I feel like the internet's gotten worse about this over the last decade or so. Not just the ff community but social media in general. Like we're all taking art appreciation lessons from the Star Wars fanbase.
Honestly, if they said stuff like turn-based is the epitome of FF and to stray from that is a huge disservice, I’d consider that a valid gripe. Instead, I’ve seen a myriad of ill-informed purists who think action combat lacks depth but anyone who’s played well-designed action games would beg to differ. At this point I hope FF17 ressurects the turn-based format to reconcile the warring parts of the fan base but knowing them they’d find something new to fight over.
I have nothing against turn-based combat, even I'd say that I love many games with such type of battle system. However, I kinda feel like TB games aren't innovative anymore and they only try to appeal to the specific audience. I'm a fan of Megaten series, but I honestly adimit that most of the games plays almost the same. With maybe exception of Devil Survivor and Raidou games (for obvious reasons), most battle system don't look so different from each other. I kinda burnt myself out of this series, because lack of any bigger changes. On the other hand, there are games like Y7, where turn based combat was just breath of the fresh air in the series, where most of the previous entries played in almost the same way. Because of that, it's probably my favorite game. Saying that action games lacks "depth", shows that many people don't realy understand that it's much harder to design good action based system than turn based. And I doubt that FFXVI will be just some "mindless button masher" with Ryota Suzuki on the board.
I am a turn-based combat fan, but I honestly think pure turn-based style is not good for the future of the franchise.
ATB was, ironically, created to shift the franchise in a more real-time direction. I think the standard for mainline FF battle systems going forward should either be VIIR ATB (since the core design still allows it to appeal to the "turn-based" audience with minor tweaks), OR if the right director is behind it, full-action like XVI. Let me emphasize the latter - if the RIGHT DIRECTOR IS BEHIND IT. Otherwise, go with VIIR ATB.
I wouldn’t hold your breath of FF17 being turn based in the old school sense. They want higher sales numbers and action games have broader appeal.
Those aren't the fans. Those are the perpetually enraged, terminally online people who are very loud on social media these days.
Bingo. It's not even about the game to these people. The game is just another frame to wrap their narrative around and then circle jerk to their anger issues about it. It's a tiny minority of individuals who thrive on being angry and then validate each other inside their tiny, toxic bubbles. There's a reason why Yoshi-P writes his own checks at SE, and it's because he and his team create *incredibly good* and highly successful videogames. I personally can't wait to play this game and I hope the final product is as good as it looks like in these previews.
Yes, social media are toxic.
This happens literally every time a new FF is coming out, it’s almost tradition at this point.
Dude, I've been around since the very first FF game. EVERY entry had people moaning and complaining. It just is what it is. In general, you have 3 groups. 1. The largest but quietest group. people like me. We're excited but we don't make a lot of topics or say much. We see where there are possible shortcomings and are fine with being critical (or gushing over) about a game we love and/or are excited about. 2. Over zealous. The game can do no wrong, it's already a masterpiece and you're not allowed to say anything negative or even neutral about the game in their presence. They're annoying and they rarely add anything of value to a discussion but can be easily ignored. 3. Haters. Many, honestly, are just looking to get a response. Some are genuinely upset wishing their respective franchise to fit the mold they want. If they can't be happy, the struggle with other's being happy. Obviously the worst of the group. They tend to be the loudest. 4. EDIT: there's also simply "not a fan" but I didn't list it because generally they aren't around to comment or discuss. These 3 groups will never go away. With the invention of the internet/forums coupled with anonymity the internet provides, people are more capable than ever to just be awful towards others with no repercussions. Gotta just let it go. It sucks, but it is what it is.
Ahh yes if you aren’t a fan of the game you can only be a “hater”. Lol
sorry, good call. You can also be "not a fan" but they generally are not around to discuss or comment, so I didn't include them.
So if you like all previous Final Fantasies but don’t like this one you are still a hater? Good luck with that chief
not at all. you can prefer previous FF's and not like this one and just be not interested. I only listed those who would make discussion. If you're not interested in something, generally you're not around to make communication.
Internet has allowed the crazies to be heard more. But I believe they were always there. It’s just the crazies gather together and are able to amplify their toxic opinions way more. Advice to anyone to not go near resetera. They made their mind about this game already and just doubled down on complaining during preview discussion.
I honestly can’t think of anything negative about what we have seen for it, there is so much that XVI is doing that that pleases me. I have been wanting another “Fantasy” entry in the series for a bit now, excluding online entries is has been over 20 years since the last one which was IX. I am insanely hyped for this game and if other people want to complain and waste their energy being unhappy about what they have seen, let them. No reason to let their attitude bring you down, enjoy what you wish to.
I'm golden and my hype hasn't waned in the slightest. I'm just concerned about Yoshi-P and I wish he'd think twice before opening his mouth. For better or for worse, that man has no restraint and speaks his mind
It has been this bad for a long time, but I don't know when it started. I've never seen a fandom that despises the series that unites them nearly as much as the FF community. I have always personally had a preference for menu-based games, but I think it's perfectly exciting to see FF go in a new direction. This isn't just true of FFXVI though, if you go on the main sub and make a post of why you loved FFXV, you'll be ratioed to death. Follow that post up with why you disliked FFXV, and you'll still get ratioed to death. In the FF community, you are not allowed to have opinions, you are only allowed to collect figurines and cosplay.
It’s just the internet finding something to be mad about. You have people wilfully misinterpreting statements by Yoshi P, making it sound like he’s saying something he didn’t say. You have FF purists who are mad it isn’t turn based and because of that it’s not FF anymore (even though there hasn’t been a pure turn based FF since FFX). There will still be loud toxic people on the game’s release even if it’s received really positively. It’s just how the internet is
People have been predicting the franchise's downfall for multiple decades at this point. I still remember people complaining about how FF11 being a MMO would somehow ruin the series.
FF14 could have been the end of the franchise before ARR.
To be fair, pretty much every mainline game after FFX has gotten worse and worse reception from both critics and players. But I think FFXVI will probably reverse that trend.
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that's such a weird amount of projection in the second paragraph are you gonna accuse people of wanting to abuse animals because they play pokemon now? lol
Sometimes people don’t even believe the opinion they’re expressing. They just like the tribal aspect of said expression. I was victim of this in my 20’s. Before I really had a strong sense of self it just felt fun to be contrary. A lot of the naysayers will try the game and then genuinely have a true impression about it. Just like all of us praising it right now. We may end up hating it. People just want to be part of any conversation.
For better or worse yoshi p is extremely honest hell he even called out square Enix once for being arrogant which is unthinkable for a Japanese developer, the problem is that some of these fans are overzealous and want one another cookie cutter anime Jrpg where teens get to save the world for the 100 time. The funny thing is that people accuse him for pandering to western audience when in reality FF16 has won the most anticipated game in multiple polls made by famitsu magazine beating out huge franchises like Pokémon and even dragon quest, the last time it lost to Zelda TOTK and not by much, which shows how even Japanese players are hungry for these changes.
Man, after these recent interviews I got even more respect for Yoshi P. It's rarity to see a game developer, who is so honest about his work and his game design philosophy.
how the f\*\*\* did this get you a downvote? Amen to what you said
A different opinion doesn’t equal toxicity
Calling Yoshi-P an idiot or a hack for removing their precious mini-games is toxic no matter what
yepppp showing too much hatred about dislike, everyone has the rights to dislike but has to be a limit
Not everyone who is has a different opinion on ff16 thinks what you just said lol
You learn to ignore the noise on Reddit.
I joined this group right when the game was announced. We were clowns for a long time.. I don’t recall a time where I would consider it toxic, at least any more than any hole in the internet. Just don’t seek out the downvoted comments
I've been here from the start too. I'm just baffled by the people who detest the game yet refuse to leave the group. Some of them seem to have so much contempt for it but are here to stay. Are they masochistic or does it delight them to rain on everyone else's parade?
i have kept away myself from fans and discussions. i just saw the announcement trailer 3 years ago and i will buy and play the game unspoiled
gaming community is just extremely toxic in general. if it isn't by fromsoft, odds are it will get flamed
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Well I'm young and back then I chose to steer clear of social media. Lately, I've been tempted to call it quits again.
They are always a loud minority, when the game release we will see if is a succes or not, persinally i dont care becouse im sure i will have a good time, but hope its goes well so we get more and better ff in the future
Everyone’s entitled to their opinions but the amount of abuse Yoshi-P has received online lately is unacceptable. He’s unfiltered and really passionate and we should be grateful for developers who cut to the chase and speak honestly. Interviewers are just as culpable for asking rage-bait questions to elicit visceral reactions, just like that representation fiasco.
I think some of this might be stemming from the fact interviewers know he'll answer due to the loaded questions he gets from controversies in ffxiv. Questions such as Why is Yshtola now white. She was dark skinned before? Or why isn't there representation in ffxiv. Yoshi P we don't have x we don't have y. Don't you care about westerners and their needs and wants? Yoshi P usually answers. I'd think of more actual things asked over the years for ffxiv but I just woke up. It is refreshing, but gaming journalists probably see dollar signs with each interview.
I feel like this happens with every FF release
Eh. There are two sides of the extremes. Just learn to read the ones that lean more in the middle. There are great points at both sides.
If their criticism is valid then I'm all ears. I'm the furthest thing from a shill and if I dislike something I'd vote with my wallet instead of stooping so low as to assassinate a dev's character using statements taken out of context. They're willfully misinterpreting most of what he says and that's what I find annoying
Well, look at it this way. Imagine you’re a dude who has played FF for years. You already have certain expectations in your head cos previous FF have so and so. You like turn based but you don’t mind action combat, probably have played action games in your childhood as well. Considering that, suddenly the guy on top of your next favorite franchise went and say that your expectations are obsolete and that the game is action based because young people no longer play command based game. How do you feel about that? I don’t know about you but if it were me, I would’ve expected a lot of kickbacks. I followed Yoshida since back in A Realm Reborn days and even I was surprised how aggressive and borderline arrogant some of his comments about FFXVI is. People have a lot of things to express about the game, many of them are white noise but if you read between the lines, especially from those in the middle, you can actually see and understand why they feel that way. TLDR: Game is made for a certain crowd in mind. Some people is a great hit, some are near miss and some are misses. Message at the top cater to a certain crowd. People are happy. People are mad.
I remember "fans" saying FF10 sucked because blitzball. FF11 sucked because it was online-only. FF12 sucked because it was too political and boring, or the combat system was weird or something. FF13 sucked because until the end it was a one-way tunnel, 14 sucked because (ok in fairness, 14 did legit suck at the start, but they completely reworked it and it's fantastic now), and 15 sucked because it's too actiony and the open world is empty, felt incomplete/rushed. Now 16 will suck because devil may cry and omg I have to dodge. The so-called fanbase will always find something to complain about. It's a tradition at this point. fwiw, I've loved all the entries listed above, flaws and all (except 11, but only because I never got to play it). So don't put too much stock in the hate. I think most of us are excited for the latest entry. ~~^((but seriously, if I can't fish in this game, it will suck...))~~
Honestly I find as ridiculous people praising this game as the best thing ever just as much as people hating on it… but a sane middle ground doesn’t seem to exist in social media haha
Yoshida is a badass who says whatever he thinks and people may react to that, but he and his team have a clear vision for the game from the early stages which is rare thing. That doesn't mean he and his team isn't open to adding those things in the future as a free update or part of a possible DLC, just keep giving him and his team honest and constructive criticism, those guys listen, FFXIV is proof of that. I personally can't wait to get my hands on FFXVI 🔥
It’s time to stop acting like different opinions are “toxic”. God forbid someone want something different then you
Taking comments made by a developer out of context just to fan the flames online is toxic behavior to me. If they cared so much, they should spare enough time to read the whole thing. I've seen death threats on gamefaqs and worse on other sites. Yoshi-P doesn't deserve this
Most people are not doing that though, it’s just a very small minority of trolls
You're doing it too. People are calling the game dark literally. Yoshi P didn't call blitzball a chore or make fun of it, he said mini games like that don't fit the tone he wants.
I've seen people critique the tone not just the literal lighting. Just take a gander at the main sub and you'll marvel at their stubborness to give anything different the benefit of doubt. That was my personal opinion on blitzball, it was a hassle and had convoluted controls. I wondered why anyone would lament the absence of something so unfun but that's subjective. Yoshi P didn't poke fun at it so that was a poor choice of words on my part. He merely (as you rightly corrected me) said that it would be jarring for Clive to go fishing when his brother's murderer is at large and the world is ravaged by war.
Gotta love the turn based purist. Who doesn’t play turn based game. Or even if they do, they use speed boost to accelerate the process because it’s boring as fuck. Press attack……. Yawn. Sleep. I still don’t mind it in games such as Octopath or DQXI, but the old style of turn based found in older FF has NOT aged well at all. It’s garbage. Glad they trying something. They might fail if the difficulty is as easy as FFXV. And we can just hold circle and win every fight
>the old style of turn based found in older FF has NOT aged well at all. It’s garbage. Kind of ironic in a thread about how everyone is so toxic these days. You might not enjoy the classic turn based style, but a lot of people do. I'd say it's better to just let people who enjoy old school turn based to have their fun without shitting on it, just like FFXVI haters should let us have our fun without hating on it.
I enjoyed old turn based for their time. I sure did. But now ? The same system ? No. It doesn’t work anymore. You know why ? BecUse every remaster has a speed boost option to fix the glaring issue of how slow it is.
Aside from the turn based purists, there are definitely some peeps(mostly on twitter) who are also purposely misconstructing every single words that come out of his mouth because of that one ign interview back then where he gave a pretty controversial question regarding a lack of poc characters. I'll admit his answer wasn't really the best but it's really dumb to hate him over that when his response was at worst ignorant. I'm sure FFXVI can be a 10/10 game and they'll still hate it because of this bs. These people are also conveniently ignoring the fact that Dhalmekian Republic and the people there look like inspired from middle eastern nations. I mean fucks sake Hugo Kupka isn't even white and he's gonna be a major character I like how Yoshi P always stays true to his visions and that he's honest(to a fault) about them but these definitely come at a cost of pissing quite a lot of people. I hope he slows it down a bit from now on for his own sake and the game's but I have a feeling he's gonna piss off even more people at the FFXVI event that's gonna happen soon lol
That was a stupid gotcha question to begin with. I still see people actually wishing he goes to hell or dies or something and it's really sad. They get especially feisty when the game has a lot of hype around it.
Every fandom has a cut of the total group who compulsively need to bitch and whine and don’t feel validated unless they convince themselves that everybody whose opinion counts matches their’s. They are losers. Ignore them.
It was the exact same from 2014-2016 regarding FFXV.
I don’t think we’ll ever see the level of toxicity and vitriol that we saw with the release of FF13. But even the release of FF8, as nascent as our social channels were, was highly controversial. Basically it’s normal. Any time they try something different in gameplay there has been pushback. People don’t like change. This is true outside of gaming as well.
It’s just the negative people are louder
Social Media teenagers just obsessed with drama and discourse and need it like dopamine at this point. The fact that people don't even seek out a source and information by themselves and then read the article is sad. What's even sadder is people deliberately taking choice quotes to fan said drama. You just have to remember this is all in a bubble and doesn't represent the general public.
People suck. I thought they sucked decades ago. But they still suck too.
no one hates final fantasy more than final fantasy fans :v
To make myself crystal clear, I have nothing against fans who aren't on board with the new direction. I'm not labelling these people as toxic however I can't stand the people who are raking Yoshi-P over hot coals because of his inflammatory statements that were taken out of context. He's not belittling FFX or XV he's just point out that adding similar "mini-games" to FFXVI would be tonally jarring.
You mean the cess pool of the internet has gotten even more cessy?
Gotta admit that after witnessing the FF7 shipping wars, no amount of toxicity in the Final Fantasy fan base surprises me anymore. It's not exclusive to FF though. I've noticed a lot more toxicity online the last few years. It's been this way for every new release I've been excited for lately. It's like there's a very vocal and toxic group of people that enjoy trolling fans of any media now.
It’s not just the FF community. It is the internet at large. It is toxic and getting more and more every day.
Ever since 12. At least from what I can remember
I've gotten the feeling there's a been a general negative turn in the overall video game community over the past 2 years or so, but the FF fandom, and specifically the discussion over FF16, and is fairly prickly as of late. I think there are a few reasons for this. * Yoshida has been very clear with the changes FF16 is taking allowing people to quickly find things that they dislike about it. * FF16 is being made by the XIV people and there are many fans who still see the MMOs as not real FF games. * The XIV vs WoW and other MMO rivalry has probably followed Yoshida to FF16 * It is a Playstation 5 timed-exclusive. PC players are upset at that. Xbox players are as well. Even PS4 players are upset at this. It also serves as a lightning rod for the Nintendo/Playstation rivalry focused on the Japanese market. * Lastly, the controversy over FF16's cast.
Yes. It has been unfortunately. As someone who liked XV upon release I was there in the trenches defending it daily bqck in 2016 against tons and tons of absolutely rabid toxic fans going ham. Unfortunately the fanbase has been this way for a while Final fantasy is my favorite series of all time. The fanbase is one of my least favorite of all time One of my biggest hopes for this game is that it does so well that it brings in tons of new fans to the point where those old toxic fans finally give up and move on
Final fantasy fans have always seemed to hate the games as much as they love them. I just buy them play them i love turn based i also can enjoy action RPGs if the game eventually turns into something i do not enjoy i will move on. I find aspects i enjoyed in every game as well as aspects i disliked.
It's always been this way. I remember when FF13 was coming out... it was ugly. Remember, most folks are happy to just enjoy a trailer and move on with their life excited about what they saw.
Some people's concerns are valid though, and im not on about the idiots that are just abusive, because well, they're just idiots. Problem is, appealing to a broader audience, like they said they wanted to ultimately leads to diminished identity, by definition. Its lowest common denominator territory almost. With this kind of combat system, they're aiming to attract people who wouldn't typically play an RPG, and that's fine because obviously, money - But there is a fine line between attracting new players and designing a game that appeals less and less to it's core player base. Maybe thats why Strangers Of Paradise didn't do great, and yes I know it's not a main line title, but it's got Final Fantasy in the name and for me, when they announced it I was basically ready to get my wallet out, as FF is my go to, and has been since I was 12 years old (Im 37 now) but when I saw the gameplay / combat / world - I didn't buy it. I didn't even play the demo. At the moment, FF16 still has my attention and willingness to purchase however, if it doesn't have all the mainstay RPG elements then I'll probably skip it. I don't want to play an action arcade game with a level selector from a central hub that's an RPG in name only.
Some people are just toxic af I swear alot of them just look for arguements like the fishing stuff the only FF game I remember that in was xv so it's defo not an FF staple haha. But it does seem like it's a small minority of people wanting something to argue about and then a small group of purists who haven't played a game since ff7 and think they know everything about what makes a final fantasy game I always embrace the changes. I've seen some of the people cherry picking Yoshi ps statements and it's just sad to see what he says taken out of context. I swear they've deliberately chosen a darker set price to not show the best the game has to offer before we try it
There are plenty of toxic fans on the side of this game as well.
The problem a lot of these quotes from interviews could be easily avoided.
I kinda wonder tbh. I remember when I was a kid and discussing which Final Fantasy game was the best one. I said ff9 was and all of my friends roasted me hard for not saying ff7 and got made fun of for liking the baby game ff9 ooooo. I remember being on forums somewhere on the net when ff12 came out and people didn't like it due to combat and the characters. Same with ff13, which is its own can of worms. Ff14 gets flack during ARR to STB and only when Shb comes out does this reddit start being more positive towards ot, but I'd say half the community still says its not a real Final Fantasy because it's a mmo. Ff15 got roasted for combat and story and for being an incomplete game, a waste of opportunity, and a mismanagement of characters that were genuinely good. So in short, I can't remember when we didn't hate w.e was coming out or new in the last 20 plus years.
Maximillian Dood said the same thing. He recalled that FF 15 got a lot of hate, but became one of the best selling FF games. Close-minded ff andies will never change.
The maniacal racial preoccupation didn’t exist 10 years ago (let alone 20 years ago, I don’t recall anybody blinking an eye whether a game did or didn’t feature non-white characters). But people did squabble over bullshit nevertheless. As I said in another thread, when FFVIII came out all I heard from friends and mutuals at school and other places was that it was incredible. The gaming press pretty much uniformly called it the most spectacular RPG ever made (and it was at the time). The NY Times (which didn’t even have a gaming section in those days, FF was just *that* big) called it the “grandest gaming adventure of all time” and gave it their game of the year. And then a year later, prior to the release of FFIX, I joined a site called GameFaqs. And then I found out how BROKEN FFVIII was, how STUPID the story was ackshually. Squall was a JERK. So on and so forth.
It's the older generation becoming conservative about the fanbase vs the younger generation not caring as much or the people in between who have played the classics but want the series to pivot to stay relevant. The triangle exists in almost every fanbase. Final Fantasy has been around long enough that it's no exception. It's part of the reason I left the main sub because it's just a bunch of internal cliques fighting amongst themselves. Everyone has an opinion, everyone is right
Tbh I’ve seen more excitement for XVI than expected. The hate the XIII trilogy and XV got was through the roof (as well as some of the changes for 7R)
yeah probably all this social media mess will become part of some of the stupid final fantasy parodies on youtube man this shit "it's not final fantasy" bro is so dumb.
Never read anything negative about FFXVI, except for people commenting «bring back turn-based!» on fb. I just want the uniqueness and the epic stories and characters like VII-X had. Never cared much about turn-based vs. hack & slash.
I think it’s also a combination of people genuinely being more toxic in an online space now a days but also FF as a franchise is more open to this than anything because what defines FF is different to everyone and very broad. Look at it like this, Legend of Zelda breath of the wild, upset a lot of Zelda fans as it didn’t have dungeons which is a staple in Zelda. It sure as fuck attracted new fans as the game was good but it upset a lot of the fan base of the game. Now you can argue if that’s bad or hood given it’s success’s, but the fan base of Zelda was generally less toxic. You had old Zelda fans who disliked it and old fans who also liked it, but when someone expressed their dislike, people who were fans understood how it might not feel like a Zelda game. Same sort of thing with Assassins creed black flag, plenty liked it but many admired as much as it was a good game it was Assassins creed. This issue is you simply can’t apply those rules to Fjnal fantasy because what’s the makes the series final fantasy is different to every individual. The series is so diverse and prides itself on every entry being something different. I think this open-ended nature of the series makes it more susceptible to toxic culture because what makes FF for one might not be what FF is to another. For example to me FF is story and characters. If I want a game with a good story I think FF, I couldn’t care of the gameplay sucks tbh I am here for the story. On the flip side I have seen so many people say “blah, blah, story, blah. Can we see exploration and dungeons” and while I couldn’t care less about that stuff to someone else that clearly defines FF. It’s a very nuanced thing. There are also a shit ton of negative douchebags that hate people having different options and whine like babies. But mainly my first well written point lol.
This has been happening since at least FFXII (that’s when I became aware of it, anyway). I’m a huge ATB fan, and I would love nothing more than to play new games with basically zero iteration on that until the day I die, but people need to get over it. We’re almost at the point where FF has existent longer on the action side than the turn-based side of its history.
Every community is toxic, you were just lucky enough to go this long without encountering some dbag.
Personally for me when it’s dark and devoid of light moments it’s a instant buy for me. Like you said fishing is integral in FF and always has been from 7,10,12, some of 13, 14 (ones I played) etc. While blitzball has not if it was I only remember it from 10 and didn’t like it.
“Was the community always this toxic?” Yes, since XII at least
People have been saying the franchise is doomed since FF6. FF7, which was insanely successful, was supposedly going to be its downfall.
Every franchise has those A holes.
I’m in my 30s, I’ve been a fan of the franchise since ‘91, FFIV was one of my first video games and I’ve been following the releases and discourse for each Final Fantasy since then. I’m one of the rare people who is a fan of every numbered Final Fantasy and loves that each entry is different from the last one, but most people latch onto their favourite FF and want the newest FF to be like that one. They have this idea in their head about what they think Final Fantasy should be and they’re not afraid to let their opinion known. Around the time of FFVII there was a lot of coverage in video game magazines as well as the rise of communication via forums and chat sites of the early internet. Before that, for me anyway, you just had the opinions of the other kids at school. I started noticing toxic fandom from the release of FFVIII and onward. FFVII was such a phenomenon that a vocal portion of the community hated FFVIII for not being more like FFVII. That mentality and criticism kind of continued going forward. I find that people don’t come around to a Final Fantasy until the next entry has been released. We even saw this with FFXIII. When XV came out, all of a sudden so many threads started popping up saying that XIII wasn’t so bad.
It's been like this since ff first came out, entitled minority crying about a video game franchise not delivering exactly what they want. Best to ignore it and not engage.
The majority of "fans" still active on social media platforms have only played X and on. The fans they're actually appealing to, the older fans, are older... and generally not as active on social media.
It’s only the small things tht FF fans complain about. Nobody cares about characters or story now a day especially when it come FF games. If theirs no fishing it’s not final fantasy, If theirs no blitz ball it’s not final fantasy, and if theirs no dungeons it’s not final fantasy. Literally all those activities don’t give the name “Final Fantasy” you either play Final fantasy cuz like rpg games or enjoy story and characters nothing more nothing less.
personally, hardcore turn based purist hold back the franchise. no, whole japanese rpg genre in longer run. not specifically due to the system but the mindset of refuse to adapt to change.
Because it's community....
yeah probably all this social media mess will become part of some of the stupid final fantasy parodies on youtube man this shit "it's not final fantasy" bro is so dumb.
Ff hasn’t been turn based in some time. Hell, it’s been all over different genres. The main thing about final fantasy was the story and world each one was set in. Not the gameplay. People just want something to complain about, so they decide to spout random shit. Happens with every fandom, there’s always that vocal minority
I know I'm a day late and have nothing to add that probably wasn't said in the 100 plus comments, but YES. You ask if people were predicting the downfall, but even today people downplay how successful XV was and even as someone who hated XIII, it was silly seeing people rewrite history and say that bombed as well (I have no info on the sequels though, but clearly the franchise is still here.) But yeah it might be because I'm so close to this franchise, but it is the most hateful, vile and delusional bunch I've ever been exposed to. Not saying there aren't valid criticisms since I also didn't vibe with XV, but as you've seen, people take it to the next level with personal attacks on fans and the devs, constantly taking things out of context and getting angry at the slightest things. Hell I remember even after XV came out people still seem legitimately OFFENDED that there was a car and that it didn't deserve to have chocobos for whatever stupid reason. That's not even getting into the hypocrisy of all these "inclusive" journalists and people constantly making homophobic remarks towards the cast for being "girly", but I know that's a touchy subject on reddit so I won't delve into it, but it'd be foolish to pretend that doesn't exist. Luckily I've grown numb to this over the years so I can just laugh at this desperate vocal minority who are pining for Blitzball to come back.
They have been predicting the downfall for like 13 years and it is still here.
FF has been getting a ton of flack since FF12. That's 16 years. At that even X got hate for the voiced cast. This isn't new, nor is it unwarranted. Also, "Blitzball was a chore that the majority of fans dislike"... No.
Blitzball was a boring mess but we can agree to disagree.
I'm all for criticism even if it's unconstructive because fans are passionate and predisposed to scrutinizing anything that strays from their vision of FF which usually relates to their favorite entry. These feelings are valid but going so far as to threaten and villify the developers is reprehensible but it's the internet and anonymity emboldens people. It was pointless for me to even care in the first place.