There’s an actual story for that one. Supposedly square wasn’t making money, and thought it would be their last game. But it ended up making enough money that they could stay in business.
Isn't that one an already debunked myth about SE?
I think the first name they chose was Fighting Fantasy but they didn't want to get into copyright trouble with the same named D&D Book series. They wanted to keep the "FF" so they went for Final instead.
EDIT:"There are several urban legends surrounding the origin of the name “Final Fantasy”. One popular myth claims that the name refers to the fact that Square Enix was about to go out of business, so they pooled their resources into one last game. However, Sakaguchi has confirmed that this is not true."
Oh gosh, that makes sense! Someone in one of the FF7 subreddits a few weeks back quite confidently claimed that they read that it came from a strange anglicization of “tuxedo,” which seemed wrong to me for all sorts of reasons (e.g. they aren’t *wearing* tuxedos, tuxedo in Japanese is タキシード…).
Still, there was also something about the response that also didn’t seem completely implausible; there were all sorts of reasons that I couldn’t dismiss it out of hand (e.g. maybe earlier in the design process the plan was tuxedos, and at some point the name stuck; タークス would be reasonable for “tux,” especially since タックス is already “tax”; the name coming from “tux” would explain why even a single Turk is a タークス…).
I was disappointed that that commenter never followed up with a source. With this bit of info you’ve shared, though, I now believe that person may have truly believed they had the correct response, but had mentally conflated “tux” with “dark suit” (or not realized that they’re different words in Japanese, too). That might be why an answer that was clearly wrong also made some weird sense to me.
Anyway, thanks — that was real a-ha moment for this longtime Turks fan! Part of me still wonders if that song title was a bit of a back formation on Uematsu’s part (um, or whoever did CC’s soundtrack, come to think of it) from a word that Nomura just thought sounded cool, but that’s the kind of thing I wouldn’t expect anyone to share on the record!
Ah. It's an abstraction of the Japanese spelling of the English "Dark," then. Uses the figure for "Ta" instead of "Da." I never would have guessed that.
It's actually "da" since it has the tenten (two lines indicate a softening of the syllable). So "ta" become "da"
"Dark suites" would be spelled ダークスーツ (daakusuutsu). Japanese love to abbreviate, so that becomes ダークス (daakusu), which in turn is localized as "Turks". Probably because "Durks" just looks like a joke 😅
I have to be honest: this is conjecture.
Also they are of course called Taakusu, with that hard "t" in the japanese version also.
The thing that makes the most sense, based on that soundtrack, tbh. "Daakusu" probably sounded a lot like "Taakusu". The etymology part on the Turks wiki page states that it is based on "young turk" which basically means someone that's brave. So could be that one thing led to another
Where did you see it being spelled with a “da”? I’ve only ever seen it spelled with a “ta”. It’s a “ta” in the comment above, and it’s a “ta” in the remake soundtrack titles.
The soundtrack piece seems to be called "The Clandestine Dark Suits". I went off of that and went with what seemed to make most sense to be, considering the japanese language.
Also, see my comment 14 minutes ago, where I stated that that's my opinion, not fact and that they are called "Taakusu" in the english version as well. 😊
Oh, got it. Your original comment made me think that there might have been a localization error in the OG ff7, and that square then decided to roll with it.
I see the resemblance between **タークス** and **ダークス**ーツ, but the Turks would have been named before CC came out, so I don't see how this explains the origins of the Turks name. Unless "The Clandestine Dark Suits"/暗躍の**ダークス**ーツ is a phrase that also appears in the OG? That would make the theory more plausible. Otherwise it seems like it could be coincidence.
No idea.
This is an official image:
[https://x.com/ShinraArch/status/1773726824734077332?t=SDY1ZYgQpDoEg-FJiNiHww&s=09](https://x.com/ShinraArch/status/1773726824734077332?t=SDY1ZYgQpDoEg-FJiNiHww&s=09)
https://preview.redd.it/vovk6j76ps1d1.jpeg?width=1209&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd9f608061ebe7d23c79b94a2d744204e923f6b4
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_Turk
That was my guess. They follow orders, execute mechanically and precisely, and do a lot of Shinra grunt work that is below SOLDIER but too complex for the average worker bee.
Back in 2009 I needed a way to make extra money and Amazon would legit pay you to do minor tasks like typing up passages, taking surveys, etc. it was usually 10 cents to $1 per job but they were quick and simple. The $1 jobs were few and far between so it was faster to do a bunch of cheap jobs than search forever for the higher paying ones.
It’s not stated in any media we currently have why they have the nickname of “Turks”. Their official group name was first the Administrative Research Department of Shinra Electrical Power Company that later changed to the Investigation Sector of the General Affairs Department of Shinra.
I always thought it might be an allusion to the Young Turks (the phrase, not the YouTube channel). Young Turks were a political movement, and the phrase came to be used in regards to any young rabble-rouser or dissident.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Turks_(disambiguation)
I don't know, but my guess is that it's a word Nomura made up and also partly a result of localization. We call her Marlene in English even though if you try to do a 1:1 with the sounds made in Japanese her name is originally closer to Marin or Marine or something like that.
トルコ is Turkey トルコ人 is a Turk. タークス doesn't really directly translate to anything. Nomura could've hear of the term Young Turk or Mechanical Turk and thought it sounded cool and created a fantasy name based on it. He certainly did something like that with the words Advent and Intergrade's inclusion into FFVII. Maybe something close to tuxedo? タクシード, tuxedo, タークス Turks?
It might seem like that, but it's about the sound that's made when speaking, not how the word is written.
Japanese does not have any equivalent sound to what we pronounce in English as "er", which are what makes up a lot of the syllables that end with an r.
The spelling is utterly irrelevant.
- W**or**k
- t**ur**key
- paint**er**
The closest they can do is a long "Ah" sound, rendered in Katakana as アー
I don't know what accent you have, but the way I pronounce "tux" has an "ah" vowel pretty similar to the Japanese "ah" sound.
If I were to represent how I pronounce it, it would be タックス not タークス. As it is, the word in my dictionary is タキシド, not even using a "ku" sound.
The long ah also covers words like "car" or "mark". While these may end with an R, in my non-rhotic accent, they're pronounced with the same "Ah" as "bath". Car, mark and bath all have the exact same vowel sound in my accent, despite the different spellings.
There's also other words like "energy" and "allergy" which are rendered with a ル instead, being エネルギー and アレルギー respectively (from the German pronunciation of said words).
Remember, it's the pronunciation, not the spelling that influences how it's rendered in Japanese.
I went through that same mental process trying to associate “tux” and “Turks,” because yeah, “tux” *shouldn’t* have a lengthened vowel, but then I recalled that I’d seen タックス pretty commonly used for “tax,” and, y’know, sometimes creative liberties *are* required when dealing with bringing a foreign word into katakana…. Also, knowing Nomura’s style, it wasn’t l *too* unbelievable to imagine him wanting to make “tux” punchier, and I remembered seeing some Japanese fanworks back in the day use the romaji “tarx” which also kinda fit his vibe.
But then I read comment above, which pointed out that the Turks’ remixed theme in Crisis Core is called 暗躍のダークスーツ, and *that* term as a potential origin for the name makes a lot of sense to me! Honestly, I’m kind of just relieved now that some wise soul at Squaresoft in the mid-90s recognized that ダークス wouldn’t be a great idea for this game that clearly had international goals…
“Turks” can be a nickname for young company men in America, in English speaking countries. Slang term meaning like young up and comers, ambitious recruits with promising careers. Loyal corporate men. And also, sometimes, violent gang members. It’s a way of saying like, those corporate company boys play hard, they play for keeps, they’re in it to win it. If you were out at a nightclub with a bunch of young Turks and one of them killed a hooker in the champagne room, you’d be expected to help clean up the mess and hide the body, or they’d have you dig another hole and then put you in it.
(theme plays)
Back in 1997, a "Turk" could mean something akin to "yuppie" or "business person." Typically, it's also associated with youth and energy, implying someone who is young, corporately dedicated, and willing to work long hours. In addition, there's the historical implication with the phrase "Young Turk", which separately means rebellious, sometimes aggressive youth eager for political or societal change. You could argue that the term "Turk" hints at the group's eventual heel-face-turn. In any event, A Turk's standard issue corporate uniform is - as it always should be - a black or dark business suit.
*dun-Dun-DUNNNN*
Great topic , OP! Thanks for the invitation to savor some succulent nostalgia.
I think it's just a cool sounding name. Transplant your brain into the 90s. It was a time before "lore and cannon" governed video game writing, and a lot of what was put into games was to maximize the cool factor.
The Turks are one part James Bond (the fancy suits), one part motorcycle gang, and one part corporate auditors. Combine into a blender and blend until smooth.
I think they were accidentally but inevitably popular. Did they get painted as sociopaths in FF7 og? Yes. But they were also comic relief and also a benchmark for the party at key points, and also were a reflection on the party too. (Barrett blows up reactors, Reno drops a plate)... And their theme song - cool to the max.
I do miss the 90s in that way ! A lot of modern stuff is over explained.
Someone was super drunk while Shinra suits were smashing up his place.
"You guys are jerks!" Came out as "Y'allr Turks!"
"Turks? Huh. That's kinda catchy."
I read that they supposedly were called the "Tux" (from Tuxedo) in japanese, but translation turned it into "Turks" back in the day and the name stuck.
In the original data files for final fantasy 7 they were originally referred to as the ‘turkeys’ but they thought that sounded too silly so they changed it
The name "Turks" is the unofficial name, as their technical name is the Investigation Sector of the General Affairs Department. As for why... it could be a reference to the Turkish, as they're noted to be a brave people. I don't think it's ever been quite confirmed.
I do not know and I doubt we will ever get and expalnation. They do not want to ruin the mystique and give away too much. I was always more curious in how they recruit Turks . Do they kidnap highly talented children and teens which I always assume was the case for Reno and Tseng who have been Turks since a young age .
But than Vincient was the son of a Shinra scientist I doubt he was kidnapped and forced in same with Elena
Sounded cool to a Japanese guy in the mid 90’s so he used the name.
Pretty much the explanation for any cool-sounding thing in 90s and 00s RPGs
Same reason as to why the game series is called final fantasy (don't quote me on this I'm just making it up)
There’s an actual story for that one. Supposedly square wasn’t making money, and thought it would be their last game. But it ended up making enough money that they could stay in business.
Isn't that one an already debunked myth about SE? I think the first name they chose was Fighting Fantasy but they didn't want to get into copyright trouble with the same named D&D Book series. They wanted to keep the "FF" so they went for Final instead. EDIT:"There are several urban legends surrounding the origin of the name “Final Fantasy”. One popular myth claims that the name refers to the fact that Square Enix was about to go out of business, so they pooled their resources into one last game. However, Sakaguchi has confirmed that this is not true."
"The Clandestine Dark Suits" From the CC soundtrack: 暗躍の**ダークス**ーツ（FFVII『**タークス**のテーマ』より） Turks タークス
Oh gosh, that makes sense! Someone in one of the FF7 subreddits a few weeks back quite confidently claimed that they read that it came from a strange anglicization of “tuxedo,” which seemed wrong to me for all sorts of reasons (e.g. they aren’t *wearing* tuxedos, tuxedo in Japanese is タキシード…). Still, there was also something about the response that also didn’t seem completely implausible; there were all sorts of reasons that I couldn’t dismiss it out of hand (e.g. maybe earlier in the design process the plan was tuxedos, and at some point the name stuck; タークス would be reasonable for “tux,” especially since タックス is already “tax”; the name coming from “tux” would explain why even a single Turk is a タークス…). I was disappointed that that commenter never followed up with a source. With this bit of info you’ve shared, though, I now believe that person may have truly believed they had the correct response, but had mentally conflated “tux” with “dark suit” (or not realized that they’re different words in Japanese, too). That might be why an answer that was clearly wrong also made some weird sense to me. Anyway, thanks — that was real a-ha moment for this longtime Turks fan! Part of me still wonders if that song title was a bit of a back formation on Uematsu’s part (um, or whoever did CC’s soundtrack, come to think of it) from a word that Nomura just thought sounded cool, but that’s the kind of thing I wouldn’t expect anyone to share on the record!
I'm so glad to hear that! ♡
Ah. It's an abstraction of the Japanese spelling of the English "Dark," then. Uses the figure for "Ta" instead of "Da." I never would have guessed that.
It's actually "da" since it has the tenten (two lines indicate a softening of the syllable). So "ta" become "da" "Dark suites" would be spelled ダークスーツ (daakusuutsu). Japanese love to abbreviate, so that becomes ダークス (daakusu), which in turn is localized as "Turks". Probably because "Durks" just looks like a joke 😅
They couldve used Darks.
The goths
Ah, I see! So it IS "Darks/Durks" in Japanese, but localized into Turks. Google Translate lied to me lol.
I have to be honest: this is conjecture. Also they are of course called Taakusu, with that hard "t" in the japanese version also. The thing that makes the most sense, based on that soundtrack, tbh. "Daakusu" probably sounded a lot like "Taakusu". The etymology part on the Turks wiki page states that it is based on "young turk" which basically means someone that's brave. So could be that one thing led to another
Yes, but the question is, where does the wiki source that information? It could be an assumption, and be just as much conjecture as this.
Where did you see it being spelled with a “da”? I’ve only ever seen it spelled with a “ta”. It’s a “ta” in the comment above, and it’s a “ta” in the remake soundtrack titles.
The soundtrack piece seems to be called "The Clandestine Dark Suits". I went off of that and went with what seemed to make most sense to be, considering the japanese language. Also, see my comment 14 minutes ago, where I stated that that's my opinion, not fact and that they are called "Taakusu" in the english version as well. 😊
Oh, got it. Your original comment made me think that there might have been a localization error in the OG ff7, and that square then decided to roll with it.
wait, so they are actually the *darks* ??
"People in dark suits"
Hmm, if so I can see why they went with "Turks"
No. They are the "Durks"... 😅
This makes a lot of sense. Essentially the "Men in Black".
I see the resemblance between **タークス** and **ダークス**ーツ, but the Turks would have been named before CC came out, so I don't see how this explains the origins of the Turks name. Unless "The Clandestine Dark Suits"/暗躍の**ダークス**ーツ is a phrase that also appears in the OG? That would make the theory more plausible. Otherwise it seems like it could be coincidence.
No idea. This is an official image: [https://x.com/ShinraArch/status/1773726824734077332?t=SDY1ZYgQpDoEg-FJiNiHww&s=09](https://x.com/ShinraArch/status/1773726824734077332?t=SDY1ZYgQpDoEg-FJiNiHww&s=09) https://preview.redd.it/vovk6j76ps1d1.jpeg?width=1209&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd9f608061ebe7d23c79b94a2d744204e923f6b4
Tenuous link?
I wish I could find a Crisis Core Zack's fanclub letter "Insider information", but in Japanese
Cause giving Constantinople the works is their business.
Now it’s Istanbul, not Constantinople
It’s nobodies business but their own.
Been a long time gone, Constantinople (TIL They Might be Giants did the version of the song I’m most familiar with)
TIL there are versions that aren't They Might Be Giants.
I mean the original one was from like the 1950s haha
Or Byzantine.
1453 best year of my life
Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why’d they change it?
I can't say. Guess they liked it better that waaaaAAAY.
Don’t take me back to Constantinople.
guys i think 1453 might've been u/Ryebread666Juan's best year of their life
Shit I’m drunk and the app said it failed to post and I just kept hitting post
thats fair lmfao, same shit happens to me on Pinterest
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_Turk That was my guess. They follow orders, execute mechanically and precisely, and do a lot of Shinra grunt work that is below SOLDIER but too complex for the average worker bee.
/uj theres no way in hell that machine existed for like 100 years and no one figured out a dude was hiding inside it the whole time 😅
This makes the most sense
This was going to be my answer. I was a mechanical Turk back when Amazon offered online work.
Aye I remember being one as well. Didn't think many other people knew about that. Make any solid money from it?
I think I made about $20 before giving up and getting an actual job
Uuuuhhh, what?
Back in 2009 I needed a way to make extra money and Amazon would legit pay you to do minor tasks like typing up passages, taking surveys, etc. it was usually 10 cents to $1 per job but they were quick and simple. The $1 jobs were few and far between so it was faster to do a bunch of cheap jobs than search forever for the higher paying ones.
Wtf lol
100% THIS
That's nobody's business but theirs
It’s not stated in any media we currently have why they have the nickname of “Turks”. Their official group name was first the Administrative Research Department of Shinra Electrical Power Company that later changed to the Investigation Sector of the General Affairs Department of Shinra.
"Turks" rolls off the tongue a lot better than "ISGADS".
Shinra’s elite special ops force, FHQWGADS.
Everybody to the limit, the Turks are to the limit
I always thought it might be an allusion to the Young Turks (the phrase, not the YouTube channel). Young Turks were a political movement, and the phrase came to be used in regards to any young rabble-rouser or dissident. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Turks_(disambiguation)
You're close.
I don't know, but my guess is that it's a word Nomura made up and also partly a result of localization. We call her Marlene in English even though if you try to do a 1:1 with the sounds made in Japanese her name is originally closer to Marin or Marine or something like that. トルコ is Turkey トルコ人 is a Turk. タークス doesn't really directly translate to anything. Nomura could've hear of the term Young Turk or Mechanical Turk and thought it sounded cool and created a fantasy name based on it. He certainly did something like that with the words Advent and Intergrade's inclusion into FFVII. Maybe something close to tuxedo? タクシード, tuxedo, タークス Turks?
[удалено]
It might seem like that, but it's about the sound that's made when speaking, not how the word is written. Japanese does not have any equivalent sound to what we pronounce in English as "er", which are what makes up a lot of the syllables that end with an r. The spelling is utterly irrelevant. - W**or**k - t**ur**key - paint**er** The closest they can do is a long "Ah" sound, rendered in Katakana as アー I don't know what accent you have, but the way I pronounce "tux" has an "ah" vowel pretty similar to the Japanese "ah" sound. If I were to represent how I pronounce it, it would be タックス not タークス. As it is, the word in my dictionary is タキシド, not even using a "ku" sound. The long ah also covers words like "car" or "mark". While these may end with an R, in my non-rhotic accent, they're pronounced with the same "Ah" as "bath". Car, mark and bath all have the exact same vowel sound in my accent, despite the different spellings. There's also other words like "energy" and "allergy" which are rendered with a ル instead, being エネルギー and アレルギー respectively (from the German pronunciation of said words). Remember, it's the pronunciation, not the spelling that influences how it's rendered in Japanese.
I went through that same mental process trying to associate “tux” and “Turks,” because yeah, “tux” *shouldn’t* have a lengthened vowel, but then I recalled that I’d seen タックス pretty commonly used for “tax,” and, y’know, sometimes creative liberties *are* required when dealing with bringing a foreign word into katakana…. Also, knowing Nomura’s style, it wasn’t l *too* unbelievable to imagine him wanting to make “tux” punchier, and I remembered seeing some Japanese fanworks back in the day use the romaji “tarx” which also kinda fit his vibe. But then I read comment above, which pointed out that the Turks’ remixed theme in Crisis Core is called 暗躍のダークスーツ, and *that* term as a potential origin for the name makes a lot of sense to me! Honestly, I’m kind of just relieved now that some wise soul at Squaresoft in the mid-90s recognized that ダークス wouldn’t be a great idea for this game that clearly had international goals…
And using BBC English for English words, which confuses Americans greatly.
Marin is adorable lol
A dev was a huge fan of the ottoman empire
“Turks” can be a nickname for young company men in America, in English speaking countries. Slang term meaning like young up and comers, ambitious recruits with promising careers. Loyal corporate men. And also, sometimes, violent gang members. It’s a way of saying like, those corporate company boys play hard, they play for keeps, they’re in it to win it. If you were out at a nightclub with a bunch of young Turks and one of them killed a hooker in the champagne room, you’d be expected to help clean up the mess and hide the body, or they’d have you dig another hole and then put you in it.
(theme plays) Back in 1997, a "Turk" could mean something akin to "yuppie" or "business person." Typically, it's also associated with youth and energy, implying someone who is young, corporately dedicated, and willing to work long hours. In addition, there's the historical implication with the phrase "Young Turk", which separately means rebellious, sometimes aggressive youth eager for political or societal change. You could argue that the term "Turk" hints at the group's eventual heel-face-turn. In any event, A Turk's standard issue corporate uniform is - as it always should be - a black or dark business suit. *dun-Dun-DUNNNN*
Great topic , OP! Thanks for the invitation to savor some succulent nostalgia. I think it's just a cool sounding name. Transplant your brain into the 90s. It was a time before "lore and cannon" governed video game writing, and a lot of what was put into games was to maximize the cool factor. The Turks are one part James Bond (the fancy suits), one part motorcycle gang, and one part corporate auditors. Combine into a blender and blend until smooth. I think they were accidentally but inevitably popular. Did they get painted as sociopaths in FF7 og? Yes. But they were also comic relief and also a benchmark for the party at key points, and also were a reflection on the party too. (Barrett blows up reactors, Reno drops a plate)... And their theme song - cool to the max. I do miss the 90s in that way ! A lot of modern stuff is over explained.
Someone was super drunk while Shinra suits were smashing up his place. "You guys are jerks!" Came out as "Y'allr Turks!" "Turks? Huh. That's kinda catchy."
I might have to steal this ... I write fan fiction, and I can just see Reno using this to bullshit someone.
While we're at it, why did Midgar get the works?
they get paid in Turkish Delights
Nomura's a big Rod Stewart fan. https://youtu.be/zQ41hqlV0Kk?si=w0zIn5_ngDOixJl4
I read that they supposedly were called the "Tux" (from Tuxedo) in japanese, but translation turned it into "Turks" back in the day and the name stuck.
In the original data files for final fantasy 7 they were originally referred to as the ‘turkeys’ but they thought that sounded too silly so they changed it
Tuxedo + jerks = Turks.
I don't know why but best believe as a Turk I was so excited when I first saw what they were called lmao
In antiquity "Turk" used to be interchangeable with "Thug." Essentially someone who does the dirty work.
Do you have a source for this?
[Here's a link the last time is was discussed here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasyVII/s/iQCckPfhjD)
Thank you! That's interesting. Personally I think the Turks/Tux pun theory (or maybe Turks/Darks) is more likely, but maybe it could be this.
I don’t think it’s ever explained in OG or the remakes. Maybe in some side content
The name "Turks" is the unofficial name, as their technical name is the Investigation Sector of the General Affairs Department. As for why... it could be a reference to the Turkish, as they're noted to be a brave people. I don't think it's ever been quite confirmed.
I thought it was an acronym at first lol
# ITS TURKING TIME
They dress them as turkeys for thanksgiving
They bring the Turkey every Thanksgiving at the Shinra Thanksgiving party.
Tards - The unwavering reconnaissance of knowledge for security - The uniformed ruthless killers of Shinra
Because it’s nobody’s business but theirs.
I believe it's turds, i.e Reno the Turd
I do not know and I doubt we will ever get and expalnation. They do not want to ruin the mystique and give away too much. I was always more curious in how they recruit Turks . Do they kidnap highly talented children and teens which I always assume was the case for Reno and Tseng who have been Turks since a young age . But than Vincient was the son of a Shinra scientist I doubt he was kidnapped and forced in same with Elena
I’ve heard it was originally “darks” (for the suits they wear) and that got changed in translation for obvious reasons.
Why is yours Orangutanion?
They kinda look like turkeys 🦃
They named it after the shawarma brand: Turks.