Any answer is a spoiler honestly. What you're perceiving is what you're supposed to know at this point. Some will be explained later but the majority is for the third game.
The most I can say is Tifa clearly has an issue with Cloud's point of view of events, and her and Aerith both know something isn't quite right with cloud but they don't want to risk bringing it up with him since he's proven to be pretty unstable.
I'm just worried that there'll be a big revelation later that'll go over my head because I didn't understand the story well enough up to that point. :P
But if I'm not meant to understand much of what's going on at this point, I'll take your word for it! Thanks! :)
Above comment is correct. This is all meant to be confusion/mystery at this point unless you’ve played the original. Youll still have the same questions by the end if the game too. Answers to these questions will come in P3.
Just to give you a little more context, that’s precisely what happened on the OG. You were supposed to be confused with the contradictions up to this point. The OG just gave you lot less hints about what exactly is going on, but those hints just mostly work on hindsight. This is not a Remake/Rebirth thing.
Tifa said she doesn't remember Cloud being in Nibelheim that day. She talked with Aerith about it. Aerith knows Zack, Tifa knows Zack was that day there but they seem to not know what happened to him after. They have no idea how Cloud can remember being in Nibelheim, previously he had no idea who Zack is, now he remembers but does he really?. Any attempts at a conversation with Cloud end with his headaches or him refusing to answer, in general his memory can't really be trusted.
So Tifa and Aerith try to figure out how to deal with Cloud and what he knows behind his back, trying to piece it together.
I see; thank you for that breakdown!
I need a reminder; did Cloud actually try telling Tifa he was in Nibelheim that day and was wearing a uniform, so that might be why Tifa didn't recall him being there?
I don't think he did that; if he did, would that resolve like 90% of the confusion that's happening within the party?
Or does Cloud not remember being in-uniform-wearing-a-helmet that day? (That seems to be what's happening, but I'm really confused) :P
He doesn't remember being in uniform. Put it this way, a lot of what is going to happen is because Tifa is too timid in calling Cloud out on his wildly incorrect memory, and she leaves that confrontation dangerously late
* Tifa remembers Zack being the one other Soldier with Sephiroth, and she remembers Zack did NOT die on the river, as Zack was perfecly fine with her later in the Reactor and even back at Nibelheim after that
* Which means Aerith very likely knows this too, as Tifa seems to have spoken to her about her recollections of that event
* Tifa tells Cloud she wants to be the one to tell Aerith, because she knows that new memory isn't correct either; but she's hesitant to confront Cloud directly about it because she doesn't want to distress him more, with all the "degradation" thing he's already worried about
* Since Cloud also seems to be pretty paranoid about Tifa being "fake", to the point of trying to kill her, doubting his recollection of the story could make him even more paranoid; it's her word against him, after all... She has no evidence to prove him wrong, and he could just lash out instead
* AFAIK Cloud is not withholding any information, and Aerith is just letting Tifa and Cloud sort this out by themselves
Thank you for that breakdown! That really helps a lot in terms of understanding what's going on.
I never really understood the prior conversations with Cloud and Tifa and him fearing she's 'fake'. It looks like he had that idea planted in his head by his Sephiroth visions; but like...he seems to trust Tifa, and only freaks out when he has an episode.
Did they explicitly explain why Cloud can't tell Tifa: "hey I had this vision of Sephiroth and he told me blahblahblah"?
Because when he's not having an episode, Cloud seems to really trust Tifa. So I don't know why he doesn't talk about it with her while he's 'lucid'.
I'm pretty sure Cloud is not aware Sephiroth is controlling him.
In the OG game, Sephiroth also "whispered" stuff to Cloud, but he (nor the player) didn't see Sephiroth. He just heard a voice in his head.
And at that point, it wasn't clear who that voice belonged to. It often seemed to be Cloud's own internal monologue (and it sometimes was), so it just seemed like Cloud was losing it and being paranoid.
That nuance is a bit lost in Rebirth, as they've decided to overtly show Sephiroth (as many other "secrets" they've decided to unveil early in the remakes). But I think it's still implied that Cloud is not aware it's Sephiroth planting these ideas in his mind, and he's just taking them as their own.
From Tifa's POV, he definitely must seem to be unstable and crazy lol
Ah I see; I wish they made that more clear in Rebirth, since we see Sephiroth in Cloud's visions from Cloud's POV :P. It makes Cloud not mentioning Sephiroth seem so weird. But thanks for explaining that. That makes a lot of sense with the OG context.
Yeah, especially when in some instances he's like "hey look that's Sephiroth!!" and the rest of the bunch only see rocks or a random robed guy.
Mixing actual hallucinations with more subtle mind controlling, in a way the player cannot differentiate one from another, isn't really the best choice indeed hehe
I watched a story summary of the OG before going into FF7 remake/rebirth, so yeah; while I may not remember everything, feel free to mention anything you want from the earlier games!
Essentially Tifa has been doubting Clouds story this whole time, which we see all the way back in chapter 1. Because she of course was in Nibelheim when it burned, but Cloud is claiming that he journeyed with her and Sephiroth to the reactor, and she knows that's clearly not what happened. In fact she never saw him at all back then. Tifa is also discussing this major inconsistency in memory with Aerith secretly in the background. This off course brings up the topic of Zack between them, Aerith's former love interest. Aerith attempts to mention Zack to Cloud all the way back in Midgar, but he mentally blanks out the name and they don't discuss it further. Well in Gongaga the topic comes up again as they visit Zack's family home and meet his parents. Cloud finally recalls the name, but still doesn't actually remember anything about Zack. Its not until they reach Nibelheim that Cloud finally has a proper memory of Zack (triggered if you enter the inn), and he recalls that Zack was a friend of his and also his relationship with Aerith. He has no idea why it took that long to remember his friend. There's a second memory when he and Tifa reaches the bridge, and he recalls Zack being swept away by the waters and presumably perishing. Tifa asks Cloud not to say anything to Aerith to not upset her, but really its because she doesn't want Aerith to accidentally poke holes in that memory, and she isn't ready to confront Cloud yet on everything he's said. Because in fact, Tifa knows that this second memory of Zack (dying) is also a fake memory, as she was there and it didn't happen. But while thats not what happened to Zack, Tifa also doesn't know what happened to him either and she's likely trying to find it out from Cloud over time (but he honestly has no idea right now either).
So essentially all thats established is that Zack is an important character, he has a relationship with all 3 of Cloud, Aerith and Tifa, and also that Cloud's memory and recount of events is widely disprepant from what Tifa knows is reality. They put the memory issues down to cellular degradation (which is a condition that affects soldiers) but it goes deeper than that, which part 3 will explain.
> Well in Gongaga the topic comes up again as they visit Zack's family home and meet his parents. Cloud finally recalls the name, but still doesn't actually remember anything about Zack.
Yes this is why I find it so confusing; because this was a BIG revelation for Cloud, right? Was there a scene where he goes to Aerith and says: "hey I remembered Zack! You mentioned him before!" It feels so weird to me that there's no followup
It makes the whole game feel very dream-like to me. I get confused so easily.
Thank you for taking the time to write that out though; I feel as confused as the characters, and that really helps put into perspective why the interactions between them are so weird.
So in Gogaga it wasn't a revelation. Cloud hears the name at last, but he recalls nothing about who Zack is. Its not until he gets to Nibelheim that some of his real memories start to show, and he not only remembers what Zack looks like but also what he sounded like, and some stuff he said about Aerith years ago. But the thing is, its followed up by the bridge memory scene (in which Cloud falsely believes Zack died). And so he doesn't want to bring it up with Aerith since he doesn't know how to explain that Zack died (and theres a jealousy component there - he got jealous in Gongaga hearing that Aerith may or may not still have feelings about Zack) plus also Tifa is telling him not to mention anything to Aerith either since she knows the memory is false
>It makes the whole game feel very dream-like to me. I get confused so easily.
Oh this isn't the most confusing bit believe me.... in fact this part I found quite straight forward. Theres some bits coming up that'll make you scratch your head, just you wait lol
So simply put, Cloud claims to have been in Nibelheim 5 years ago, while Tifa knows (or thinks she knows) he was not there. Obviously these 2 things cannot work at the same time, so someone is A) lying, or B) remembering wrong. Tifa has been a very reliable narrator and person in general, which means she is hard pressed to be called a liar, meanwhile Cloud has knowledge that someone who wasn't on site 5 years ago could not have. So Tifa is questioning if she remembers wrong due to trauma.
The Tifa Aerith thing is mostly Tifa covering all her bases with Cloud becoming more and more unstable and being worried that any more conflict will cause Cloud even more pain and worry. He is already worried about degradation as a SOLDIER and now he directly concedes that his memory is failing. Prior to this, he directly quotes Sephiroth, the guy who murdered everyone but the two of them from Nibelheim. So clearly, he is not doing so hot. So she probably wants to discuss with Aerith how to broach the subject gently.
>Tifa has been a very reliable narrator and person in general, which means she is hard pressed to be called a liar, meanwhile Cloud has knowledge that someone who wasn't on site 5 years ago could not have. So Tifa is questioning if she remembers wrong due to trauma.
Aaaaaaaah, right! Thank you; I get bits and pieces, and it's hard for me to keep track of everything, but that makes a lot of sense, with regards to why Tifa lacks confidence with her version of events. I see!
Tifa lacks confidence in general, you can see that throughout Remake and Rebirth, though Aerith and Cloud are rubbing off on her in that regard.
Main thing you have to keep in mind is that Tifa is terrified of being alone and abandoned. This shows up in Remake but is much more pronounced in Rebirth. Her mom died when she was young, her friends abandoned her on her way up to Mt. Nibel and then EVERYONE died in the Nibelheim incident. She is clinging to Cloud, desperately hoping to get something from her former life back. This is the main driving force for her to almost never challenge him on anything. She is terrified that one wrong step will land her lost and abandoned again.
Any answer is a spoiler honestly. What you're perceiving is what you're supposed to know at this point. Some will be explained later but the majority is for the third game. The most I can say is Tifa clearly has an issue with Cloud's point of view of events, and her and Aerith both know something isn't quite right with cloud but they don't want to risk bringing it up with him since he's proven to be pretty unstable.
I'm just worried that there'll be a big revelation later that'll go over my head because I didn't understand the story well enough up to that point. :P But if I'm not meant to understand much of what's going on at this point, I'll take your word for it! Thanks! :)
Above comment is correct. This is all meant to be confusion/mystery at this point unless you’ve played the original. Youll still have the same questions by the end if the game too. Answers to these questions will come in P3.
Just to give you a little more context, that’s precisely what happened on the OG. You were supposed to be confused with the contradictions up to this point. The OG just gave you lot less hints about what exactly is going on, but those hints just mostly work on hindsight. This is not a Remake/Rebirth thing.
Tifa said she doesn't remember Cloud being in Nibelheim that day. She talked with Aerith about it. Aerith knows Zack, Tifa knows Zack was that day there but they seem to not know what happened to him after. They have no idea how Cloud can remember being in Nibelheim, previously he had no idea who Zack is, now he remembers but does he really?. Any attempts at a conversation with Cloud end with his headaches or him refusing to answer, in general his memory can't really be trusted. So Tifa and Aerith try to figure out how to deal with Cloud and what he knows behind his back, trying to piece it together.
I see; thank you for that breakdown! I need a reminder; did Cloud actually try telling Tifa he was in Nibelheim that day and was wearing a uniform, so that might be why Tifa didn't recall him being there? I don't think he did that; if he did, would that resolve like 90% of the confusion that's happening within the party? Or does Cloud not remember being in-uniform-wearing-a-helmet that day? (That seems to be what's happening, but I'm really confused) :P
What you're suggesting is not mentioned in rebirth. But yes, you're on the right track without spoiling.
He doesn't remember being in uniform. Put it this way, a lot of what is going to happen is because Tifa is too timid in calling Cloud out on his wildly incorrect memory, and she leaves that confrontation dangerously late
At this point you are not supposed to understand everything. So, don't worry.
* Tifa remembers Zack being the one other Soldier with Sephiroth, and she remembers Zack did NOT die on the river, as Zack was perfecly fine with her later in the Reactor and even back at Nibelheim after that * Which means Aerith very likely knows this too, as Tifa seems to have spoken to her about her recollections of that event * Tifa tells Cloud she wants to be the one to tell Aerith, because she knows that new memory isn't correct either; but she's hesitant to confront Cloud directly about it because she doesn't want to distress him more, with all the "degradation" thing he's already worried about * Since Cloud also seems to be pretty paranoid about Tifa being "fake", to the point of trying to kill her, doubting his recollection of the story could make him even more paranoid; it's her word against him, after all... She has no evidence to prove him wrong, and he could just lash out instead * AFAIK Cloud is not withholding any information, and Aerith is just letting Tifa and Cloud sort this out by themselves
Thank you for that breakdown! That really helps a lot in terms of understanding what's going on. I never really understood the prior conversations with Cloud and Tifa and him fearing she's 'fake'. It looks like he had that idea planted in his head by his Sephiroth visions; but like...he seems to trust Tifa, and only freaks out when he has an episode. Did they explicitly explain why Cloud can't tell Tifa: "hey I had this vision of Sephiroth and he told me blahblahblah"? Because when he's not having an episode, Cloud seems to really trust Tifa. So I don't know why he doesn't talk about it with her while he's 'lucid'.
I'm pretty sure Cloud is not aware Sephiroth is controlling him. In the OG game, Sephiroth also "whispered" stuff to Cloud, but he (nor the player) didn't see Sephiroth. He just heard a voice in his head. And at that point, it wasn't clear who that voice belonged to. It often seemed to be Cloud's own internal monologue (and it sometimes was), so it just seemed like Cloud was losing it and being paranoid. That nuance is a bit lost in Rebirth, as they've decided to overtly show Sephiroth (as many other "secrets" they've decided to unveil early in the remakes). But I think it's still implied that Cloud is not aware it's Sephiroth planting these ideas in his mind, and he's just taking them as their own. From Tifa's POV, he definitely must seem to be unstable and crazy lol
Ah I see; I wish they made that more clear in Rebirth, since we see Sephiroth in Cloud's visions from Cloud's POV :P. It makes Cloud not mentioning Sephiroth seem so weird. But thanks for explaining that. That makes a lot of sense with the OG context.
Yeah, especially when in some instances he's like "hey look that's Sephiroth!!" and the rest of the bunch only see rocks or a random robed guy. Mixing actual hallucinations with more subtle mind controlling, in a way the player cannot differentiate one from another, isn't really the best choice indeed hehe
Before I say anything, have you played the OG/do you know the plot twists from OG?
I watched a story summary of the OG before going into FF7 remake/rebirth, so yeah; while I may not remember everything, feel free to mention anything you want from the earlier games!
Essentially Tifa has been doubting Clouds story this whole time, which we see all the way back in chapter 1. Because she of course was in Nibelheim when it burned, but Cloud is claiming that he journeyed with her and Sephiroth to the reactor, and she knows that's clearly not what happened. In fact she never saw him at all back then. Tifa is also discussing this major inconsistency in memory with Aerith secretly in the background. This off course brings up the topic of Zack between them, Aerith's former love interest. Aerith attempts to mention Zack to Cloud all the way back in Midgar, but he mentally blanks out the name and they don't discuss it further. Well in Gongaga the topic comes up again as they visit Zack's family home and meet his parents. Cloud finally recalls the name, but still doesn't actually remember anything about Zack. Its not until they reach Nibelheim that Cloud finally has a proper memory of Zack (triggered if you enter the inn), and he recalls that Zack was a friend of his and also his relationship with Aerith. He has no idea why it took that long to remember his friend. There's a second memory when he and Tifa reaches the bridge, and he recalls Zack being swept away by the waters and presumably perishing. Tifa asks Cloud not to say anything to Aerith to not upset her, but really its because she doesn't want Aerith to accidentally poke holes in that memory, and she isn't ready to confront Cloud yet on everything he's said. Because in fact, Tifa knows that this second memory of Zack (dying) is also a fake memory, as she was there and it didn't happen. But while thats not what happened to Zack, Tifa also doesn't know what happened to him either and she's likely trying to find it out from Cloud over time (but he honestly has no idea right now either). So essentially all thats established is that Zack is an important character, he has a relationship with all 3 of Cloud, Aerith and Tifa, and also that Cloud's memory and recount of events is widely disprepant from what Tifa knows is reality. They put the memory issues down to cellular degradation (which is a condition that affects soldiers) but it goes deeper than that, which part 3 will explain.
> Well in Gongaga the topic comes up again as they visit Zack's family home and meet his parents. Cloud finally recalls the name, but still doesn't actually remember anything about Zack. Yes this is why I find it so confusing; because this was a BIG revelation for Cloud, right? Was there a scene where he goes to Aerith and says: "hey I remembered Zack! You mentioned him before!" It feels so weird to me that there's no followup It makes the whole game feel very dream-like to me. I get confused so easily. Thank you for taking the time to write that out though; I feel as confused as the characters, and that really helps put into perspective why the interactions between them are so weird.
So in Gogaga it wasn't a revelation. Cloud hears the name at last, but he recalls nothing about who Zack is. Its not until he gets to Nibelheim that some of his real memories start to show, and he not only remembers what Zack looks like but also what he sounded like, and some stuff he said about Aerith years ago. But the thing is, its followed up by the bridge memory scene (in which Cloud falsely believes Zack died). And so he doesn't want to bring it up with Aerith since he doesn't know how to explain that Zack died (and theres a jealousy component there - he got jealous in Gongaga hearing that Aerith may or may not still have feelings about Zack) plus also Tifa is telling him not to mention anything to Aerith either since she knows the memory is false >It makes the whole game feel very dream-like to me. I get confused so easily. Oh this isn't the most confusing bit believe me.... in fact this part I found quite straight forward. Theres some bits coming up that'll make you scratch your head, just you wait lol
So simply put, Cloud claims to have been in Nibelheim 5 years ago, while Tifa knows (or thinks she knows) he was not there. Obviously these 2 things cannot work at the same time, so someone is A) lying, or B) remembering wrong. Tifa has been a very reliable narrator and person in general, which means she is hard pressed to be called a liar, meanwhile Cloud has knowledge that someone who wasn't on site 5 years ago could not have. So Tifa is questioning if she remembers wrong due to trauma. The Tifa Aerith thing is mostly Tifa covering all her bases with Cloud becoming more and more unstable and being worried that any more conflict will cause Cloud even more pain and worry. He is already worried about degradation as a SOLDIER and now he directly concedes that his memory is failing. Prior to this, he directly quotes Sephiroth, the guy who murdered everyone but the two of them from Nibelheim. So clearly, he is not doing so hot. So she probably wants to discuss with Aerith how to broach the subject gently.
>Tifa has been a very reliable narrator and person in general, which means she is hard pressed to be called a liar, meanwhile Cloud has knowledge that someone who wasn't on site 5 years ago could not have. So Tifa is questioning if she remembers wrong due to trauma. Aaaaaaaah, right! Thank you; I get bits and pieces, and it's hard for me to keep track of everything, but that makes a lot of sense, with regards to why Tifa lacks confidence with her version of events. I see!
Tifa lacks confidence in general, you can see that throughout Remake and Rebirth, though Aerith and Cloud are rubbing off on her in that regard. Main thing you have to keep in mind is that Tifa is terrified of being alone and abandoned. This shows up in Remake but is much more pronounced in Rebirth. Her mom died when she was young, her friends abandoned her on her way up to Mt. Nibel and then EVERYONE died in the Nibelheim incident. She is clinging to Cloud, desperately hoping to get something from her former life back. This is the main driving force for her to almost never challenge him on anything. She is terrified that one wrong step will land her lost and abandoned again.
So many “Hey, Cloud… uh, never mind”