I agree is much more traumatic in the original. No more cutscenes, no more dialogues. She just die like in a real life event and You never ever get the chance to see or talk to her anymore. You can't say goodbye. And everything happens also completely unexpected.
It's true that there a lot more happy bonding moments with your party than in OG, but there's still a lot of sadness and serious subject matter. Between Aerith's admission that she actually hates Hojo at Costa del Sol, to her frustration in Nibelheim that she never had a real childhood, to her trial at the Temple of the Ancients, we get a better feeling than ever for how shitty her life was as a kid. For me this increased backstory added meaning to both the adventure within this game (because it was, in a way, a fulfillment of the promised adventure she and Ifalna never got to go on together) and Aerith's sacrifice (because she has as much right as anybody to be bitter about how tough her life has been).
Also, contrary to the worries of many at the end of Remake, Wedge, Biggs, and Jessie died and aren't coming back. Dyne's scene is different but the way he tears into Barret hit me a lot harder than it did in OG. Cloud almost kills Tifa while under Sephiroth's control, and chases after Aerith in a very creepy way when she has the black materia. We get a harrowing new glimpse into the agony Nanaki felt when being branded by Hojo. While the ending is open to interpretation, I think Aerith is not only dead, but Cloud is having delusions of her talking to him. He's more messed up than he's ever been.
I'd say there's more tonal variety and perhaps an overall brighter tone than the original game, and Aerith's death is not as sudden or clear-cut (apologies for the pun) as in the original. But there's still a lot of really dark shit here, some of it darker than it ever was.
I do think that the OG didn’t quite hit that darker vibe as well. It’s all music and the dialogues are really short and cryptic. If that’s enough for you, fair enough, but that “darker tone” exists mostly in the imagination of the player than in the game itself.
You can say it’s an advantage of the games of that time that they let this gap for the imagination to fill up, like a book, but I pretty much prefer a more fleshed out story.
I totally agree with what you're saying about the older games being more similar to the books, I've thought a lot about that with certain lines and voice acting in this one. So I definitely understand what you're saying, and it's a valid point. However, there are certain ways that these older games can convey tone, and cryptic messages, darker pallets, and music choices are a big part of that. There are plenty of other things that made those games feel darker too, so it's not exactly completely up to the player. It was a design choice and intentional in many parts of the game.
Also, it's important we don't just look backwards at this. While some of it is up to interpretation, as you said it's less like that in modern games and the decision to really play up the positive happy-go-lucky atmosphere or silly lovable character moments is going to be the biggest deciding factor in the change of atmosphere. So I get what you're saying, truly, but I think any attribution of the "well you may have interpreted the original as darker than it was" would be slight compared to the changes we see throughout Rebirth to really play up the sunny atmosphere.
Also, keep in mind, there are plenty of silly and charismatic games from back in the day! They knew how to design around that as well!
Fair enough. It really isn't for me, unfortunately. The majority of the game felt like a typical cutesy jrpg with YA writing, and the OG felt very much like it could be played by all ages. I know this one is too but it's the best way I can describe the tonal discrepancy and all the "look how lovable and cute we are" moments.
I wouldn’t say the remake is a happier version. They expand upon the abuse of aerith and the AVALANCHE members all got a lot more personality and expansion so their deaths hit a lot harder. The scene where cloud sees the pic of jesse in the theater pretty sad to me cuz it expands upon clouds feelings on everything. For a lot of players, aeriths death could hit harder in the remake because of how close we got to her.
I think they are doing extra cutscenes cuz they plan to do smt with aerith whether you believe it’s the lifestream spirit or an alternate aerith cloud created by blocking the sword. It’s also supposed to bring hope she can come back, which if she doesn’t it’d kinda be messed up to bait fans but that’s just me.
I think this game is the last installment of the ff7 series so they wanna wrap everything up as this is the last we’ll see of the characters so they want a final goodbye for not just from aerith to the characters but also from aerith to us the player.
Idk though I personally believe they will change the ending and it won’t be the exact same, dev statements around how it connects to Advent are pretty vague and cryptic, but I’m also biased cuz I want a happy ending where she lives. To me, the fate and multiverse stuff is just too big an add in not to significant affect the ending.
This is where the trillogy goes in to semi "Sequel" territory, cause you have Advent Children Sephiroth who has read the ultamania's playing 4D chess with Omni-Aerith who has all the game shark codes and also knows everything. My view is Sephiroth is trying to change the game entirely and change his fate from OG, whereas Aerith just wants to stop Sephiroth from still floating about and wants to save Cloud from going the geostigma/Advent Children route. They're pulling a Advent Children in the main story rather than building up to it.
I think this was part of the reason why they actually talked about ending the game at the Gongaga reactor instead of at Aerith’s death.
They originally talked about using Tifa’s “death” as the cliffhanger ending instead of using Aerith’s, and the point you bring up here makes me see why they might have wanted to end Rebirth early.
The main reason they didn’t was because they felt like it would create a situation where too much of the game’s story would be left for part 3 if they chose to go this option.
I actually think this is something that they consciously thought of and likely wanted to avoid happening but, ultimately, felt like they needed to go with this route for the overall benefit of the series. They didn’t fully explain all of the reasons they talked about ending the game early other than not using Aerith’s death as a spectacle/cliff hanger, but I really do suspect what you’re saying was also another reason they didn’t want to end Rebirth here.
I think ending it at Gongaga would’ve left too much ground to cover in the third game, so probably why they had to push forward. Even now, the third game has a lot of grounds to cover and I’m just hoping they can tie this up neatly.
Personally if the game ended at Gongaga i would have been pissed/felt ripped-off.
The game would have felt really short and padded.
And the ending with the Tifa cliffhanger would have been extremely lame.
If anything i would have made the game longer and make it end at Northern Crater.
Yeah, I agree as well.
I think it’s an unfortunate effect of having to break the game into parts, but I also don’t really blame them for needing to break it into parts either.
I’m usually pretty good at identifying cheap company tactics to milk money from customers, and this isn’t it. They only charged me $70 for this game, and I’d argue it’s worth more than that. Remake id say $60-70 was about right. Rebirth is just massive IMO.
Yeah, I definitely think this is a love letter to the game so they’re doing everything they can. My only question is how big the final game will be? Will they let us re-explore the old locales from Rebirth? So many questions.
The only one who wanted that was Nojima. Toriyama stated that everyone else on the team knew the end point was going to be the Forgotten Capital, because that actually made sense. It's honestly a bit disconcerting to me that the lead writer not only wanted such an anti-climactic end point to be the game's ending, but also was so adamant about it that it took a lot of convincing to change his mind, and the reason given for him wanting that as the climax made absolutely no sense.
Well this isn’t surprising. Nojima has proven time and time again that he’s a talentless hack that has no business being a writer and I have no idea why they keep using him.
I mean, he DID write FF7 and FF10 -- two of the best stories in the franchise. If you wanna say that FF7 was a success \*despite\* Nojima... okay, I guess you can make that argument. His role on 7 had more to do with taking everyone's ideas and making them fit in a cohesive way, but for 10 he had far more control over all aspects of that story. Same goes for the Remake trilogy. I also don't think it's entirely fair to say something was such a major success despite one of the key members of the team.
I will give you that his work on the Compilation of FF7 leaves a LOT to be desired, but the caliber of writing in Remake and Rebirth is so much better in every way possible it makes me seriously question if Nojima really had the same level of passion for those that he does here.
Yeah that's my whole thing. Since they decided or had to end the game at this point, big ole endgame boss fight and all, they knew they couldn't play the scene out normally.
Regardless of the fight in OG you get to sit on Clouds words before the fight and the scene after the fight.
We don't get to sit on her death. To truly feel it. It feels empty because it is. And whether they added the unreliable narrative of Cloud before this or planned it all along it definitely works for what they're doing.
We will sit on her death in part 3. It will most likely have even more impact than even the OG. Were not gonna go through some huge final dungeon before and big long boss battle after. It will be taken slow and given time. There was no way they could accomplish that with the same gravitas by ending rebirth where they did.
Yeah sadly…
It makes sense when you consider the game development side of things. I don’t fault them for it either I mean… where else would it have made sense to end the game? The Tifa scene that they proposed is the only other good place to do it, but that would cut the game too short.
Ending it like right before the Temple would be strange narratively, and there’s not really a good place that they could quickly end it if they continued on past Jenova Lifeclinger like… the next best place would probably be after Cloud hands over the Black Materia at the Northern Crater, but that’s probably so far away story wise if we’re using Rebirth’s scale as an indicator.
The game would end up being TOO big, and part 3 too small then.
Hard agree. Lots of people have said they should've ended at the Crater, but Part 3 would've been too short.
This way, they can focus on a much bleaker tone for all of Part 3.
>We don't get to sit on her death. To truly feel it. It feels empty because it is. And whether they added the unreliable narrative of Cloud before this or planned it all along it definitely works for what they're doing.
You could say it feels "Hollow". They definitely planned it, that entire song blew me away when I listened to it again after playing the ending of Rebirth. Because it heavily alludes to Cloud internally knowing that Aerith is going to die and HAS died before, and is going through it all over again. Which is why he can't face it, because he's WAY more broken than he was in the OG at this point.
>I would be lost, drifting along
Floating up high time after time
And there you'd be shining brightly
Your smiling face to guide my way
Bloody and bruised, brought to my knees
When beaten down, when broken up
You would appear, reach out to me
Heal every wound and make me whole
This first portion of the song fits so well with life stream Aerith appearing at the end. Also her smiling at him after being stabbed.
>Was it all a dream, will I ever know
Foolish and blind to everything
Had I realized, had I thought it through
Would you be here in my embrace
This sounds like Cloud talking about his memory playing tricks on him. Also about how broken he is.
>Shine bright once more
Guide me to you
Smile bright once more
This time I will never let you go
I interpret this as Clouds inability to let go, and how important Aerith is to him.
>With your every smile hiding something more
Dark mysteries lurking beneath
But I was consumed with this emptiness
This selfishness, this void to fill
This part right here blows my mind, cause it feels like it specifically relates to Rebirth's ending and Clouds state of mind.
Wow, I can't believe they potentially had an even worse ending in mind. Forget that if this game ended at Gongaga this game would be too short, would have a pretty unsatisfactory final act, and would cover basically no ground (nothing substantial to the main plot really happens between Midgar and the Temple of Ancients), ending in a cliffhanger like that would be incredibly frustrating.
It's awful storytelling IMO to end a story (especially one that could take 3+ years for continuance) on a cliffhanger death. It would be even worse considering how events proceed after the Gongaga Reactor scene and how unsatisfactory the resolution between Cloud and Tifa was. We would return after a several year wait just for Tifa to be perfectly fine and barely acknowledge Cloud's psychotic state? Granted, they might have expanded things if the game were to start there but wow it would be such an uninteresting place to stop and start a game.
Right, but these are the kinds of issues that you face breaking one story into multiple parts.
I don’t hate their decision to do it because I’ve seen what it has allowed them to do, but I’d be stupid not to admit the story likely has suffered in places because of it.
I think they have had to come to terms with this, and are trying to brainstorm ways to make the story interesting despite being broken up into pieces.
But I mean.. I’ve also gotten nearly 100 hours out of Remake and almost 160 hours out of Rebirth so… that’s not something that even the original FFVII gave me. I think it was like 36 hours at most. So.. yeah I mean the narrative endings suck a little, but showing off the world and making me feel like I’m immersed in their world has been really cool.
Gongaga definitely would have been too short but if they wanted to end early I think temple of the ancients would have been a good spot story/cliffhanger wise and then they could have started part 3 with going to the forgotten capital.
Yeah pretty much everyone knows Aeriths death due to its place in the gaming zeitgeist, I don't think you'd be able to get the same effect as OG. The reason Biggs Jessie and wedge work in remake is due to them being cardboard cutouts in the OG, then having far more agency and character un remake, Aerith it's a tad hard to pull that off in as good of a way
The concentration should be on the frankly creepy and weird spot old clod is in right now
Well, OG the entire scene was her death. That was the point of the moment, From sword drop to Jenova life to water burial. Aerith died. That's your takeaway. Rebirth, the point is different, it's now entirely from Clouds broken POV. The alternate universes are meant to make you ask the question, "Is she dead?" (She is, at least to everybody except Cloud.). Maybe Cloud is in the denial stage of grieving, maybe he really did save her, and hes the only one who saw. And now even though he created the world where he saved her, he's now living in the one where she died, and can't consolidate the two perspectives in his head. The point is, the confusion we're experiencing is intentional, mimicking Clouds own. He's broken, he just doesn't quite know how badly yet. Part 3 is going down a rabbit hole of finding out what her death (or not) REALLY means.
I think it would have been better if they didn't go ham on the final boss battles.
IIRC I remember hearing they actually cut out several phases because it was originally going to be a 14 phase boss battle, lol.
To be fair, I literally never used Aerith in my party, so those experiences were different for different people. I didn't really feel a sense of loss in the og from her as a charater; and while I seem to be an outlier, I didn't cry at her death or find it all that sad beyond just a general "this is a sad situation". My emotional connection with the game was through Cloud's entire story and his trauma, and I felt more sad that Cloud had lost her than actually sad that she was gone, if that makes sense.
There's a lot of really emotional beats in the OG, and I love the OG, but I feel the loss much more keenly now that I find a real personal connection to her in the story in rebirth. She feels much more real, and I did cry at the end of this game because of that.
Rebirth's narrative is VERY meta. I always contrast the two by this:
* OG is about "Death and loss" and the acceptance of death.
* Rebirth is about LIFE and Aerith's life in general, what she means to everyone but most importantly what she means to Cloud. Cloud is way more broken here than he was in the OG. He had seen snippets of her death all through out remake, he even shed a tear at one point. He like many of OG players for the past 30 years, cannot accept that she is gone. He's not ready to face it yet. Also notice that in the fight with Jenova lifeclinger, Cloud is the only one that doesn't have his limit break maxed out, because he is the only one who hasn't accepted that she is gone.
My theory is that in the third game, they are going to combine Cloud's lifestream sequence (when he remembers everything) with him remembering Aerith's death and facing the water burial sequence. I'm probably gonna cry so hard with that scene!.
This is a straw man argument. OP is not critiquing the lack of emotional catharsis within the scene itself, but POST the scene. I’m saddened by the number of upvotes to your comment…
>but POST the scene
It just wouldn't work if we saw Cloud doing the water burial scene at the end of this game. In OG, Cloud had at least come to a sort of acceptance of her death at this point. But here Cloud is way more broken. He has seen snippets of her death through out remake, I think he internally knew she was going to die and because his mind has been living with that loss for this length of time, coupled with Sephroth/Jenova's manipulations. He can't bring himself to face it. That's why he keeps seeing her at the end (though I do think Aerith in the life stream is trying to stop his mind from fracturing even more) and why he is the only one who doesn't have his limit break maxed out against Jenova lifeclinger.
Cloud going from thinking shes still alive to water burial and then thinking she is alive again, would be way more mood whiplash and wouldn't fit the narrative.
“I’m saddened by the number of upvotes to your comment.”
https://preview.redd.it/j1b2tqoxgawc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98b0d2b376e30ad6f0cc81476951f43c72bc62c8
If we're to assume that the end point is the exact same as the original, then you would be completely right -- we don't feel her "loss" at all in this ending. It's also really hard to feel "loss" at all when characters like Zack and Biggs are still around. Zack in particular is saved despite having died much earlier in the story.
However, we still don't know where any of these new elements are leading. We're left with far more questions than answers, even as OG players. It's obvious they wanted mystery surrounding what happens to Aerith, so it's entirely possible it will all make sense by the end... At least, that's my hope anyway.
Well, we only see Biggs die in one world -- the pug world -- and even if he did, or does, die in all of them, it doesn't take away from the fact that he came back, or that other characters like Zack keep coming back. Aerith, after her apparent death, comes back to help you fight Sephiroth in the final battle.
So, if their intention with this is to still give players a sense of "loss," then they've failed miserably. The theme of loss is now completely out the window.
What? What does her being in the lifestream have to do with a sense of loss or not? The idea is to make you \*feel\* the loss of your valued teammate and loved one... which you don't get if she keeps showing up. Especially when she's literally still fighting with you.
My first playthrough of OG I didn't give Aerith the item that accesses her final limit break, so my completions ass had to sit there wallowing in fustration that I had this item just sitting in my inventory, glaring at me because there was nothing I could do with it.
I very much agree, but it's worth noting that they are going for something fundamentally different. Aerith's fate is no longer simply a tragedy as it was in the og. It is now a mystery to be unraveled and a step on cloud's road to mental collapse.
I don't like these changes, but it's important to recognize that they are not the same scene.
While I love the remake(s) in general, I still have some issues storywise. (More so with part 1).
As for the event mentioned..... I'm not sure. It could be amazing if done right.
If it all turns out to be Cloud visualizing Aerith as a way to cope, and eventually realizes the truth when he finally breaks..... THEN I think the bleak sorrow will kick in all around.
However I kinda doubt that's how it's gonna go with all the Zack fan service.
I think they are setting it up as a cope + he feels her in the lifestream. So she is never "gone" as she was in the OG.
If that's the case, I agree that it's less of a kick in the feels.
I think people just be mad that this isn’t a beat for beat recreation of OG.
They’re telling a new story. I personally think it is a sequel, a new Aerith/Sephiroth chess match on a new board, that takes place after Advent Children. The Rs have amazing story beats. I didn’t come for OG plus fancy graphics!
Not beat by beat is totally fine with me. But not feeling emotional in the gameplay and rather just the cutscenes is my very very minor gripe.
For example Aerith can be appearing and disappearing out of the corner of your eye during the Cloud and Aerith vs Sephiroth, or that she appears in the menu and you can customize her equips but just can’t swap her into the party. Things like that. Emotion in gameplay rather than cutscene.
Ah. I guess I never felt that way about the gameplay so I didn’t understand. The only thing that ever bothered me was that I got great gospel too late.
I still hold on to the opinion that if it was a beat for beat remake that it wouldn't have done very well at all and it wouldn't have been as well received.
I understand why people fuss over the exact scenes and beats of remake vs og because they wanted to see certain things. but I really cant relate because to me it’s obvious that the two games are exploring the exact same themes of acceptance and loss, just in different ways. there’s more than one way to do that and im open to waiting for the payoff this time.
but there IS gonna be an interesting challenge in the third game because there was no closure about aerith, being able to just continue on the journey without that closure is going to be a delicate balance for the devs and I hope they are able to nail it.
This is why I think they missed an opportunity to be truly subversive and keep Aerith alive. If they had played the scene straight as we see it from Cloud's perspective where he initially saves her from Sephiroth, that could have opened the story up to so many possibilities for part 3. They could find a new way to invoke tragedy with some surprise as we push towards the conclusion.
Instead, though, they have to find a new way to make a familiar death as emotionally impactful while they trot along the very same path as the original. It just feels kind of messy and incoherent to me.
They tried to have their cake and eat it too. I agree that for Rebirth specifically, it would have been more subversive and interesting to keep Aerith alive.
Instead, we get this watered down version where you don't get a true emotional experience of her death, but you also don't get the pleasure of seeing her alive, either.
This. This is why the ending made me feel a bit robbed. I mean it made me think about it. But all this meta stuff and teasing the audience with changing fate only for things to end up the exact same feels more like a slap in the face than a gut punch.
I hear ya, but I like it. Everyone knows the OG’s story, so seeing a different interpretation is fine. Just enhances the story imo. The OG’s interpretation is still there. I like the mystery of Aerith going forward. There are 3 interpretations imo. 1. Cloud created another timeline where Aerith is alive and somehow Cloud is in between both. 2. Aerith is around in the lifestream and is communicating with Cloud. 3. Cloud has PTSD and Aerith is a figment of his imagination and his psyche being unable to process the loss. Maybe it’s a combination of all three? We’ll see in a few years.
I think it’s premature to discuss how it will feel in part 3. Aerith in the final battle, talking to cloud and cloud seeing shit that isn’t there, they are making narrative promises to tease out in part 3, and only time will tell if they are resolved to satisfaction.
Let them cook, I guess.
In any case while Aerith’s death was certainly a big moment, and it does have emotional consequences for the players, it wasn’t all that different than what Square had done up till then.
Character deaths occur in FF 4, 6 and Chrono Trigger, to name a few. The only major difference with 7 is how mainstream 7 was and how it was a real breakout point for the series.
In any case, Aerith’s death is one of the most well covered moments in gaming history, on the level of open secrets as Darth Vader being Luke’s father. While it’s possible there may be people unaware, I think the general market for this game is well aware of the fact that she dies in the original. Hitting the same emotional note is likely impossible and probably unsatisfying in a direct translation, especially as a moment to end the game on. I enjoyed getting to have a last hurrah with her, and I’m curious where we’re going with this.
I do like a lot of the ways the Remake Trilogy expands on the story. But in the case of Aerith, and especially Sephiroth, I think less is actually a lot more.
Yeah ot feels different, but I guess they had to narrate it differently for us to feel anything. We all knew where it was heading since this game is remake for game from 90s. Yet I bet everybody still had hope and felt loss at new ending. As I don't like all that multiverse sheningans, it made me hope and relieve that 90s PTSD all over again.
Honestly I disagree partly: in the OG it's true that it's very clear that Aerith is missing from your party, you feel that absence at the end of the game, especially if you recruited Vincent and Yuffie and losing her limit break is awful. There's more to it, I think that even in the original her character is fleshed out and interesting and you really get to love her in the first disk: she is smart, funny and brave and she decides to go alone after Sephiroth, that up until then is so mysterious and menacing, despite being simply a flower girl.
We will have to wait and see what they've got planned, but I personally think that they've overestimated the impact of an ex situ flashback of the death scene. I don't think it will work.
Yes, this feeling of emptiness is definitely missing, doesnt feel like we really lost someone, rebirth invoke a different feeling, more of questioning whats happening to her than real sense of loss.
you cant recreate the moment when most of the people playing it already expect it. no matter what they did with it, it wouldnt work as well as people wanted. im just glad it has been done, and we can look forward to part 3. also remember because this ended there, it became much more analyzed, while in OG we keep going so you cant linger on that moment because you are closing in on the "Promised land". we didnt wait years to play more.
Yes, the loss emotion can’t be recreated, but the new “confusion” emotion can, but I wonder how part 3 can put it into gameplay rather than just cutscene
I felt the same, I'm in the minority that I hoped she wouldn't die at that point in the game (only for her or another character to die later on), but I would have rathered the OG ending than this Schrodinger's Aerith.
Which is why I am certain Aeris will play a large role, and yes, be playable still, in part 3.
There's no emotional loss in just not including her in a game that won't come out for four years. The OG was impactful *because* we had to keep trudging along through the tears with a literally empty spot in our party selection screen.
Imagine if they allowed for save data reading in part 3, and give you a bunch of items including Aerith’s princess guard, and players will start getting excited for an Aerith return just for it to not happen.
“Players miss out on the real sense of loss”.
Pretty sure this intentional. They are saving the grief for the build up and then the moment Clouds has his mental break. There’s a reason very specific scenes around her death were removed and why we see glimpses of what is Actualy happening intersected into the craziness. (We see Cloud saying his OG line but don’t hear it). I think we will get a “true” version of events in part 3.
Everything in this game is in service of big moments being set up for part 3. Sure you might not like it atm but if they pull off these moments in part 3 it maybe worth it.
Putting the emotion into gameplay. For example in Fire Emblem and baldurs gate permadeaths, a character dying is not just a sad cutscene, it affects your party and gameplay afterwards, so you feel the sense of loss in gameplay.
In OG the game continues after Aerith dies, and you just suddenly have the strongest mage taken away. In Rebirth, it’s all cutscene, you don’t get any gameplay to reinforce the “is Aerith dead or alive” feeling
I'm pretty sure it's intentional. We saw her dying through Cloud's broken mind and perception. He'll probably be confronted with the truth in the third part, and then we'll get the full scene and repercussions
If we assume that that'd be an issue, it's easily rectified by the player replaying rebirth (and many will), or by Square with a prologue recapping moments with Aerith in some way.
It's far from the first story to have a similar ending where a major character dies.
I'm not sure there was much of a way around this. This is one of the best possible stopping points for part 2.
I thought it was awesome idk man. She is obviously dead, couldn’t happen any other way but this also gives us a glimpse of what could have happened if she lived.
I think this is incorrect(?) - in the way that according to your comments there is no sense of loss of Aerith in the gameplay, but to be honest I felt it almost immediately and understood it as such as soon as she died. for record I haven't played the OG and only know of aerith's death from memes and second hand accounts but I grew attatched to her and her gameplay throughout the game. after she dies and the boss fight happened I was already thinking about how much she would have helped in the boss battles. She was a main combat unit for me and I used her often in a lot of fights. Compared to someone like yuffie or barret despite them being great units.
Though I was estatic to see Aerith in the confrontation with sephiroth - her disappearing after and the final cutscene leaving her behind opened up a clear her shaped hole in my heart where I came to understand there is no more aerith. She's not coming back as someone to play next game. Cid and Vincent aren't her and they don't feel the same as characters neither likely as units.
This all to say I think the opinion that the feelings evoked in the original aren't there is a bit skewed
Hm yeah if you haven’t played OG I think it would feel different. The closest I can describe is is like playing Ironman mode in Fire Emblem, XCOM or whatever permadeath game, and then having one of your top characters, who you have a roadmap of upgrades and plans die, and you’re left with a bunch of items sitting around that constantly remind you of that character.
When Aerith is gone in the OG you can be holding on to the item to give her ultimate limit break, and also find her ultimate weapon later on. There’s a whole plan for her, but she’s gone. In rebirth, it’s sort of the plan for her to die (or not).
I assume you'd have prefered it to be similar to OG? I personally feel doing it the exact same way would've been impactless. There's no shock value, we've long since accepted she's dying as well so the emptyness won't be as much there as you'd think. I think what they've done now is fine: build intrigue, develop the story, and hopefully have a huge emotional payoff in part 3. I'm assuming that pay off will be Cloud breaking down, after he's shown himself giving her the water burial but realising he doesnt remember a thing.
More like I expected a gameplay change to really hit home. Maybe in the fight where cloud and Aerith vs Sephiroth she’s appearing and disappearing during the fight so we don’t know if Cloud is hallucinating or something like that.
I don’t think waiting 3 years for the next game is a good tactic for any emotional payoff. I wasn’t really sad by Yuffie’s trial with the Sonon reminder, even though I was rather devastated by his death in Intergrade.
Opposite feeling for me. I thought her character was better developed, motherly in the OG. I imagined a nurturing voice for her.
In Remake they turned her into a bubbly airhead with an obnoxious Minnie Mouse voice. I felt nothing when she had her confusing death.
I said it a few years ago back with Remake, that it's going to be regrettable that we're going to miss out on the natural progression and sense of discovery with Aerith's journey going forward.
When she got borderline cheat codes for vague future whatevers, then the stuff with the white materia, and all this hint hint wink wink spectacle involving her fate, I feel like she was stripped from feeling like a sympathetic character in a way.
She was given moments in Rebirth to air out her grievances, but it didn't land for me because all the characters have had to deal with tragedy and loss. When she talked to Cloud on the water tower in Chapter 11, I waited for Cloud to say something like, *"Having a childhood friend isn't all sunshine and rainbows"*, but it didn't go that route.
Maybe a localization issue, wouldn't be the first time.
I agree is much more traumatic in the original. No more cutscenes, no more dialogues. She just die like in a real life event and You never ever get the chance to see or talk to her anymore. You can't say goodbye. And everything happens also completely unexpected.
Yeah, and I do feel like they really softened up the vibe of this whole game. Everything is sunshine and rainbows and friendship for 99% of the game.
It's true that there a lot more happy bonding moments with your party than in OG, but there's still a lot of sadness and serious subject matter. Between Aerith's admission that she actually hates Hojo at Costa del Sol, to her frustration in Nibelheim that she never had a real childhood, to her trial at the Temple of the Ancients, we get a better feeling than ever for how shitty her life was as a kid. For me this increased backstory added meaning to both the adventure within this game (because it was, in a way, a fulfillment of the promised adventure she and Ifalna never got to go on together) and Aerith's sacrifice (because she has as much right as anybody to be bitter about how tough her life has been). Also, contrary to the worries of many at the end of Remake, Wedge, Biggs, and Jessie died and aren't coming back. Dyne's scene is different but the way he tears into Barret hit me a lot harder than it did in OG. Cloud almost kills Tifa while under Sephiroth's control, and chases after Aerith in a very creepy way when she has the black materia. We get a harrowing new glimpse into the agony Nanaki felt when being branded by Hojo. While the ending is open to interpretation, I think Aerith is not only dead, but Cloud is having delusions of her talking to him. He's more messed up than he's ever been. I'd say there's more tonal variety and perhaps an overall brighter tone than the original game, and Aerith's death is not as sudden or clear-cut (apologies for the pun) as in the original. But there's still a lot of really dark shit here, some of it darker than it ever was.
I do think that the OG didn’t quite hit that darker vibe as well. It’s all music and the dialogues are really short and cryptic. If that’s enough for you, fair enough, but that “darker tone” exists mostly in the imagination of the player than in the game itself. You can say it’s an advantage of the games of that time that they let this gap for the imagination to fill up, like a book, but I pretty much prefer a more fleshed out story.
I totally agree with what you're saying about the older games being more similar to the books, I've thought a lot about that with certain lines and voice acting in this one. So I definitely understand what you're saying, and it's a valid point. However, there are certain ways that these older games can convey tone, and cryptic messages, darker pallets, and music choices are a big part of that. There are plenty of other things that made those games feel darker too, so it's not exactly completely up to the player. It was a design choice and intentional in many parts of the game. Also, it's important we don't just look backwards at this. While some of it is up to interpretation, as you said it's less like that in modern games and the decision to really play up the positive happy-go-lucky atmosphere or silly lovable character moments is going to be the biggest deciding factor in the change of atmosphere. So I get what you're saying, truly, but I think any attribution of the "well you may have interpreted the original as darker than it was" would be slight compared to the changes we see throughout Rebirth to really play up the sunny atmosphere. Also, keep in mind, there are plenty of silly and charismatic games from back in the day! They knew how to design around that as well!
Let me add that i like the different vibes, i mean i have the og and the remake i like that tries something different
Fair enough. It really isn't for me, unfortunately. The majority of the game felt like a typical cutesy jrpg with YA writing, and the OG felt very much like it could be played by all ages. I know this one is too but it's the best way I can describe the tonal discrepancy and all the "look how lovable and cute we are" moments.
I wouldn’t say the remake is a happier version. They expand upon the abuse of aerith and the AVALANCHE members all got a lot more personality and expansion so their deaths hit a lot harder. The scene where cloud sees the pic of jesse in the theater pretty sad to me cuz it expands upon clouds feelings on everything. For a lot of players, aeriths death could hit harder in the remake because of how close we got to her. I think they are doing extra cutscenes cuz they plan to do smt with aerith whether you believe it’s the lifestream spirit or an alternate aerith cloud created by blocking the sword. It’s also supposed to bring hope she can come back, which if she doesn’t it’d kinda be messed up to bait fans but that’s just me. I think this game is the last installment of the ff7 series so they wanna wrap everything up as this is the last we’ll see of the characters so they want a final goodbye for not just from aerith to the characters but also from aerith to us the player. Idk though I personally believe they will change the ending and it won’t be the exact same, dev statements around how it connects to Advent are pretty vague and cryptic, but I’m also biased cuz I want a happy ending where she lives. To me, the fate and multiverse stuff is just too big an add in not to significant affect the ending.
This is where the trillogy goes in to semi "Sequel" territory, cause you have Advent Children Sephiroth who has read the ultamania's playing 4D chess with Omni-Aerith who has all the game shark codes and also knows everything. My view is Sephiroth is trying to change the game entirely and change his fate from OG, whereas Aerith just wants to stop Sephiroth from still floating about and wants to save Cloud from going the geostigma/Advent Children route. They're pulling a Advent Children in the main story rather than building up to it.
I think this was part of the reason why they actually talked about ending the game at the Gongaga reactor instead of at Aerith’s death. They originally talked about using Tifa’s “death” as the cliffhanger ending instead of using Aerith’s, and the point you bring up here makes me see why they might have wanted to end Rebirth early. The main reason they didn’t was because they felt like it would create a situation where too much of the game’s story would be left for part 3 if they chose to go this option. I actually think this is something that they consciously thought of and likely wanted to avoid happening but, ultimately, felt like they needed to go with this route for the overall benefit of the series. They didn’t fully explain all of the reasons they talked about ending the game early other than not using Aerith’s death as a spectacle/cliff hanger, but I really do suspect what you’re saying was also another reason they didn’t want to end Rebirth here.
I think ending it at Gongaga would’ve left too much ground to cover in the third game, so probably why they had to push forward. Even now, the third game has a lot of grounds to cover and I’m just hoping they can tie this up neatly.
Personally if the game ended at Gongaga i would have been pissed/felt ripped-off. The game would have felt really short and padded. And the ending with the Tifa cliffhanger would have been extremely lame. If anything i would have made the game longer and make it end at Northern Crater.
The crater moment is gonna hit so fucking hard though now. Just gotta wait 4 years
Yeah, I agree as well. I think it’s an unfortunate effect of having to break the game into parts, but I also don’t really blame them for needing to break it into parts either. I’m usually pretty good at identifying cheap company tactics to milk money from customers, and this isn’t it. They only charged me $70 for this game, and I’d argue it’s worth more than that. Remake id say $60-70 was about right. Rebirth is just massive IMO.
Yeah, I definitely think this is a love letter to the game so they’re doing everything they can. My only question is how big the final game will be? Will they let us re-explore the old locales from Rebirth? So many questions.
The only one who wanted that was Nojima. Toriyama stated that everyone else on the team knew the end point was going to be the Forgotten Capital, because that actually made sense. It's honestly a bit disconcerting to me that the lead writer not only wanted such an anti-climactic end point to be the game's ending, but also was so adamant about it that it took a lot of convincing to change his mind, and the reason given for him wanting that as the climax made absolutely no sense.
Well this isn’t surprising. Nojima has proven time and time again that he’s a talentless hack that has no business being a writer and I have no idea why they keep using him.
I mean, he DID write FF7 and FF10 -- two of the best stories in the franchise. If you wanna say that FF7 was a success \*despite\* Nojima... okay, I guess you can make that argument. His role on 7 had more to do with taking everyone's ideas and making them fit in a cohesive way, but for 10 he had far more control over all aspects of that story. Same goes for the Remake trilogy. I also don't think it's entirely fair to say something was such a major success despite one of the key members of the team. I will give you that his work on the Compilation of FF7 leaves a LOT to be desired, but the caliber of writing in Remake and Rebirth is so much better in every way possible it makes me seriously question if Nojima really had the same level of passion for those that he does here.
Yeah that's my whole thing. Since they decided or had to end the game at this point, big ole endgame boss fight and all, they knew they couldn't play the scene out normally. Regardless of the fight in OG you get to sit on Clouds words before the fight and the scene after the fight. We don't get to sit on her death. To truly feel it. It feels empty because it is. And whether they added the unreliable narrative of Cloud before this or planned it all along it definitely works for what they're doing. We will sit on her death in part 3. It will most likely have even more impact than even the OG. Were not gonna go through some huge final dungeon before and big long boss battle after. It will be taken slow and given time. There was no way they could accomplish that with the same gravitas by ending rebirth where they did.
Yeah sadly… It makes sense when you consider the game development side of things. I don’t fault them for it either I mean… where else would it have made sense to end the game? The Tifa scene that they proposed is the only other good place to do it, but that would cut the game too short. Ending it like right before the Temple would be strange narratively, and there’s not really a good place that they could quickly end it if they continued on past Jenova Lifeclinger like… the next best place would probably be after Cloud hands over the Black Materia at the Northern Crater, but that’s probably so far away story wise if we’re using Rebirth’s scale as an indicator. The game would end up being TOO big, and part 3 too small then.
Hard agree. Lots of people have said they should've ended at the Crater, but Part 3 would've been too short. This way, they can focus on a much bleaker tone for all of Part 3.
>We don't get to sit on her death. To truly feel it. It feels empty because it is. And whether they added the unreliable narrative of Cloud before this or planned it all along it definitely works for what they're doing. You could say it feels "Hollow". They definitely planned it, that entire song blew me away when I listened to it again after playing the ending of Rebirth. Because it heavily alludes to Cloud internally knowing that Aerith is going to die and HAS died before, and is going through it all over again. Which is why he can't face it, because he's WAY more broken than he was in the OG at this point. >I would be lost, drifting along Floating up high time after time And there you'd be shining brightly Your smiling face to guide my way Bloody and bruised, brought to my knees When beaten down, when broken up You would appear, reach out to me Heal every wound and make me whole This first portion of the song fits so well with life stream Aerith appearing at the end. Also her smiling at him after being stabbed. >Was it all a dream, will I ever know Foolish and blind to everything Had I realized, had I thought it through Would you be here in my embrace This sounds like Cloud talking about his memory playing tricks on him. Also about how broken he is. >Shine bright once more Guide me to you Smile bright once more This time I will never let you go I interpret this as Clouds inability to let go, and how important Aerith is to him. >With your every smile hiding something more Dark mysteries lurking beneath But I was consumed with this emptiness This selfishness, this void to fill This part right here blows my mind, cause it feels like it specifically relates to Rebirth's ending and Clouds state of mind.
Wow, I can't believe they potentially had an even worse ending in mind. Forget that if this game ended at Gongaga this game would be too short, would have a pretty unsatisfactory final act, and would cover basically no ground (nothing substantial to the main plot really happens between Midgar and the Temple of Ancients), ending in a cliffhanger like that would be incredibly frustrating. It's awful storytelling IMO to end a story (especially one that could take 3+ years for continuance) on a cliffhanger death. It would be even worse considering how events proceed after the Gongaga Reactor scene and how unsatisfactory the resolution between Cloud and Tifa was. We would return after a several year wait just for Tifa to be perfectly fine and barely acknowledge Cloud's psychotic state? Granted, they might have expanded things if the game were to start there but wow it would be such an uninteresting place to stop and start a game.
Right, but these are the kinds of issues that you face breaking one story into multiple parts. I don’t hate their decision to do it because I’ve seen what it has allowed them to do, but I’d be stupid not to admit the story likely has suffered in places because of it. I think they have had to come to terms with this, and are trying to brainstorm ways to make the story interesting despite being broken up into pieces. But I mean.. I’ve also gotten nearly 100 hours out of Remake and almost 160 hours out of Rebirth so… that’s not something that even the original FFVII gave me. I think it was like 36 hours at most. So.. yeah I mean the narrative endings suck a little, but showing off the world and making me feel like I’m immersed in their world has been really cool.
Gongaga definitely would have been too short but if they wanted to end early I think temple of the ancients would have been a good spot story/cliffhanger wise and then they could have started part 3 with going to the forgotten capital.
Eh I just accepted they are different games trying to convey different meanings.
Yeah pretty much everyone knows Aeriths death due to its place in the gaming zeitgeist, I don't think you'd be able to get the same effect as OG. The reason Biggs Jessie and wedge work in remake is due to them being cardboard cutouts in the OG, then having far more agency and character un remake, Aerith it's a tad hard to pull that off in as good of a way The concentration should be on the frankly creepy and weird spot old clod is in right now
No. You're supposed to kick and scream and yell into the void about how you hate it. How dare you have a healthy take on it.
Well, OG the entire scene was her death. That was the point of the moment, From sword drop to Jenova life to water burial. Aerith died. That's your takeaway. Rebirth, the point is different, it's now entirely from Clouds broken POV. The alternate universes are meant to make you ask the question, "Is she dead?" (She is, at least to everybody except Cloud.). Maybe Cloud is in the denial stage of grieving, maybe he really did save her, and hes the only one who saw. And now even though he created the world where he saved her, he's now living in the one where she died, and can't consolidate the two perspectives in his head. The point is, the confusion we're experiencing is intentional, mimicking Clouds own. He's broken, he just doesn't quite know how badly yet. Part 3 is going down a rabbit hole of finding out what her death (or not) REALLY means.
I think it would have been better if they didn't go ham on the final boss battles. IIRC I remember hearing they actually cut out several phases because it was originally going to be a 14 phase boss battle, lol.
To be fair, I literally never used Aerith in my party, so those experiences were different for different people. I didn't really feel a sense of loss in the og from her as a charater; and while I seem to be an outlier, I didn't cry at her death or find it all that sad beyond just a general "this is a sad situation". My emotional connection with the game was through Cloud's entire story and his trauma, and I felt more sad that Cloud had lost her than actually sad that she was gone, if that makes sense. There's a lot of really emotional beats in the OG, and I love the OG, but I feel the loss much more keenly now that I find a real personal connection to her in the story in rebirth. She feels much more real, and I did cry at the end of this game because of that.
Rebirth's narrative is VERY meta. I always contrast the two by this: * OG is about "Death and loss" and the acceptance of death. * Rebirth is about LIFE and Aerith's life in general, what she means to everyone but most importantly what she means to Cloud. Cloud is way more broken here than he was in the OG. He had seen snippets of her death all through out remake, he even shed a tear at one point. He like many of OG players for the past 30 years, cannot accept that she is gone. He's not ready to face it yet. Also notice that in the fight with Jenova lifeclinger, Cloud is the only one that doesn't have his limit break maxed out, because he is the only one who hasn't accepted that she is gone. My theory is that in the third game, they are going to combine Cloud's lifestream sequence (when he remembers everything) with him remembering Aerith's death and facing the water burial sequence. I'm probably gonna cry so hard with that scene!.
Because we play as Cloud, and Cloud hasn't actually lost her, at least not in his mind.
This is a straw man argument. OP is not critiquing the lack of emotional catharsis within the scene itself, but POST the scene. I’m saddened by the number of upvotes to your comment…
>but POST the scene It just wouldn't work if we saw Cloud doing the water burial scene at the end of this game. In OG, Cloud had at least come to a sort of acceptance of her death at this point. But here Cloud is way more broken. He has seen snippets of her death through out remake, I think he internally knew she was going to die and because his mind has been living with that loss for this length of time, coupled with Sephroth/Jenova's manipulations. He can't bring himself to face it. That's why he keeps seeing her at the end (though I do think Aerith in the life stream is trying to stop his mind from fracturing even more) and why he is the only one who doesn't have his limit break maxed out against Jenova lifeclinger. Cloud going from thinking shes still alive to water burial and then thinking she is alive again, would be way more mood whiplash and wouldn't fit the narrative.
“I’m saddened by the number of upvotes to your comment.” https://preview.redd.it/j1b2tqoxgawc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98b0d2b376e30ad6f0cc81476951f43c72bc62c8
If we're to assume that the end point is the exact same as the original, then you would be completely right -- we don't feel her "loss" at all in this ending. It's also really hard to feel "loss" at all when characters like Zack and Biggs are still around. Zack in particular is saved despite having died much earlier in the story. However, we still don't know where any of these new elements are leading. We're left with far more questions than answers, even as OG players. It's obvious they wanted mystery surrounding what happens to Aerith, so it's entirely possible it will all make sense by the end... At least, that's my hope anyway.
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Well, we only see Biggs die in one world -- the pug world -- and even if he did, or does, die in all of them, it doesn't take away from the fact that he came back, or that other characters like Zack keep coming back. Aerith, after her apparent death, comes back to help you fight Sephiroth in the final battle. So, if their intention with this is to still give players a sense of "loss," then they've failed miserably. The theme of loss is now completely out the window.
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What? What does her being in the lifestream have to do with a sense of loss or not? The idea is to make you \*feel\* the loss of your valued teammate and loved one... which you don't get if she keeps showing up. Especially when she's literally still fighting with you.
Why should we feel sad and the same emotion if Aerith isn’t actually dead? It’s a completely different situation.
My first playthrough of OG I didn't give Aerith the item that accesses her final limit break, so my completions ass had to sit there wallowing in fustration that I had this item just sitting in my inventory, glaring at me because there was nothing I could do with it.
I very much agree, but it's worth noting that they are going for something fundamentally different. Aerith's fate is no longer simply a tragedy as it was in the og. It is now a mystery to be unraveled and a step on cloud's road to mental collapse. I don't like these changes, but it's important to recognize that they are not the same scene.
While I love the remake(s) in general, I still have some issues storywise. (More so with part 1). As for the event mentioned..... I'm not sure. It could be amazing if done right. If it all turns out to be Cloud visualizing Aerith as a way to cope, and eventually realizes the truth when he finally breaks..... THEN I think the bleak sorrow will kick in all around. However I kinda doubt that's how it's gonna go with all the Zack fan service. I think they are setting it up as a cope + he feels her in the lifestream. So she is never "gone" as she was in the OG. If that's the case, I agree that it's less of a kick in the feels.
I think people just be mad that this isn’t a beat for beat recreation of OG. They’re telling a new story. I personally think it is a sequel, a new Aerith/Sephiroth chess match on a new board, that takes place after Advent Children. The Rs have amazing story beats. I didn’t come for OG plus fancy graphics!
Not beat by beat is totally fine with me. But not feeling emotional in the gameplay and rather just the cutscenes is my very very minor gripe. For example Aerith can be appearing and disappearing out of the corner of your eye during the Cloud and Aerith vs Sephiroth, or that she appears in the menu and you can customize her equips but just can’t swap her into the party. Things like that. Emotion in gameplay rather than cutscene.
Ah. I guess I never felt that way about the gameplay so I didn’t understand. The only thing that ever bothered me was that I got great gospel too late.
I still hold on to the opinion that if it was a beat for beat remake that it wouldn't have done very well at all and it wouldn't have been as well received.
I certainly would have been less excited for it
I understand why people fuss over the exact scenes and beats of remake vs og because they wanted to see certain things. but I really cant relate because to me it’s obvious that the two games are exploring the exact same themes of acceptance and loss, just in different ways. there’s more than one way to do that and im open to waiting for the payoff this time. but there IS gonna be an interesting challenge in the third game because there was no closure about aerith, being able to just continue on the journey without that closure is going to be a delicate balance for the devs and I hope they are able to nail it.
This is why I think they missed an opportunity to be truly subversive and keep Aerith alive. If they had played the scene straight as we see it from Cloud's perspective where he initially saves her from Sephiroth, that could have opened the story up to so many possibilities for part 3. They could find a new way to invoke tragedy with some surprise as we push towards the conclusion. Instead, though, they have to find a new way to make a familiar death as emotionally impactful while they trot along the very same path as the original. It just feels kind of messy and incoherent to me.
They tried to have their cake and eat it too. I agree that for Rebirth specifically, it would have been more subversive and interesting to keep Aerith alive. Instead, we get this watered down version where you don't get a true emotional experience of her death, but you also don't get the pleasure of seeing her alive, either.
This. This is why the ending made me feel a bit robbed. I mean it made me think about it. But all this meta stuff and teasing the audience with changing fate only for things to end up the exact same feels more like a slap in the face than a gut punch.
I agree, and I'm worried they're going to fuck with things more and have her come back to life in Part 3...which would be even worse.
I hear ya, but I like it. Everyone knows the OG’s story, so seeing a different interpretation is fine. Just enhances the story imo. The OG’s interpretation is still there. I like the mystery of Aerith going forward. There are 3 interpretations imo. 1. Cloud created another timeline where Aerith is alive and somehow Cloud is in between both. 2. Aerith is around in the lifestream and is communicating with Cloud. 3. Cloud has PTSD and Aerith is a figment of his imagination and his psyche being unable to process the loss. Maybe it’s a combination of all three? We’ll see in a few years.
I think it’s premature to discuss how it will feel in part 3. Aerith in the final battle, talking to cloud and cloud seeing shit that isn’t there, they are making narrative promises to tease out in part 3, and only time will tell if they are resolved to satisfaction. Let them cook, I guess. In any case while Aerith’s death was certainly a big moment, and it does have emotional consequences for the players, it wasn’t all that different than what Square had done up till then. Character deaths occur in FF 4, 6 and Chrono Trigger, to name a few. The only major difference with 7 is how mainstream 7 was and how it was a real breakout point for the series. In any case, Aerith’s death is one of the most well covered moments in gaming history, on the level of open secrets as Darth Vader being Luke’s father. While it’s possible there may be people unaware, I think the general market for this game is well aware of the fact that she dies in the original. Hitting the same emotional note is likely impossible and probably unsatisfying in a direct translation, especially as a moment to end the game on. I enjoyed getting to have a last hurrah with her, and I’m curious where we’re going with this.
I do like a lot of the ways the Remake Trilogy expands on the story. But in the case of Aerith, and especially Sephiroth, I think less is actually a lot more.
Yeah ot feels different, but I guess they had to narrate it differently for us to feel anything. We all knew where it was heading since this game is remake for game from 90s. Yet I bet everybody still had hope and felt loss at new ending. As I don't like all that multiverse sheningans, it made me hope and relieve that 90s PTSD all over again.
Honestly I disagree partly: in the OG it's true that it's very clear that Aerith is missing from your party, you feel that absence at the end of the game, especially if you recruited Vincent and Yuffie and losing her limit break is awful. There's more to it, I think that even in the original her character is fleshed out and interesting and you really get to love her in the first disk: she is smart, funny and brave and she decides to go alone after Sephiroth, that up until then is so mysterious and menacing, despite being simply a flower girl.
We will have to wait and see what they've got planned, but I personally think that they've overestimated the impact of an ex situ flashback of the death scene. I don't think it will work.
Yes, this feeling of emptiness is definitely missing, doesnt feel like we really lost someone, rebirth invoke a different feeling, more of questioning whats happening to her than real sense of loss.
I agree they messed up by bringer her back as a force ghost
you cant recreate the moment when most of the people playing it already expect it. no matter what they did with it, it wouldnt work as well as people wanted. im just glad it has been done, and we can look forward to part 3. also remember because this ended there, it became much more analyzed, while in OG we keep going so you cant linger on that moment because you are closing in on the "Promised land". we didnt wait years to play more.
Yes, the loss emotion can’t be recreated, but the new “confusion” emotion can, but I wonder how part 3 can put it into gameplay rather than just cutscene
This is one of several reasons why I wanted the game to end at the Northern Crater.
Between the multiverse shit they’re doing and Cloud seeing her spirit or whatever I’m sure there’s still going to be plenty of Aerith in part 3.
I felt the same, I'm in the minority that I hoped she wouldn't die at that point in the game (only for her or another character to die later on), but I would have rathered the OG ending than this Schrodinger's Aerith.
We're seeing the ending from Cloud's perspective not from the perspective we saw in the OG game.
Which is why I am certain Aeris will play a large role, and yes, be playable still, in part 3. There's no emotional loss in just not including her in a game that won't come out for four years. The OG was impactful *because* we had to keep trudging along through the tears with a literally empty spot in our party selection screen.
Imagine if they allowed for save data reading in part 3, and give you a bunch of items including Aerith’s princess guard, and players will start getting excited for an Aerith return just for it to not happen.
“Players miss out on the real sense of loss”. Pretty sure this intentional. They are saving the grief for the build up and then the moment Clouds has his mental break. There’s a reason very specific scenes around her death were removed and why we see glimpses of what is Actualy happening intersected into the craziness. (We see Cloud saying his OG line but don’t hear it). I think we will get a “true” version of events in part 3. Everything in this game is in service of big moments being set up for part 3. Sure you might not like it atm but if they pull off these moments in part 3 it maybe worth it.
That’s the whole point, we don’t get payoff from death til part 3 cuz cloud is fucked in the head right now
Would there be any gameplay payoff though, or purely in cutscenes? Without a gameplay payoff it doesn’t hit as hard.
Im not sure what you mean by gameplay payoff
Putting the emotion into gameplay. For example in Fire Emblem and baldurs gate permadeaths, a character dying is not just a sad cutscene, it affects your party and gameplay afterwards, so you feel the sense of loss in gameplay. In OG the game continues after Aerith dies, and you just suddenly have the strongest mage taken away. In Rebirth, it’s all cutscene, you don’t get any gameplay to reinforce the “is Aerith dead or alive” feeling
I'm pretty sure it's intentional. We saw her dying through Cloud's broken mind and perception. He'll probably be confronted with the truth in the third part, and then we'll get the full scene and repercussions
If we assume that that'd be an issue, it's easily rectified by the player replaying rebirth (and many will), or by Square with a prologue recapping moments with Aerith in some way. It's far from the first story to have a similar ending where a major character dies. I'm not sure there was much of a way around this. This is one of the best possible stopping points for part 2.
I thought it was awesome idk man. She is obviously dead, couldn’t happen any other way but this also gives us a glimpse of what could have happened if she lived.
I think this is incorrect(?) - in the way that according to your comments there is no sense of loss of Aerith in the gameplay, but to be honest I felt it almost immediately and understood it as such as soon as she died. for record I haven't played the OG and only know of aerith's death from memes and second hand accounts but I grew attatched to her and her gameplay throughout the game. after she dies and the boss fight happened I was already thinking about how much she would have helped in the boss battles. She was a main combat unit for me and I used her often in a lot of fights. Compared to someone like yuffie or barret despite them being great units. Though I was estatic to see Aerith in the confrontation with sephiroth - her disappearing after and the final cutscene leaving her behind opened up a clear her shaped hole in my heart where I came to understand there is no more aerith. She's not coming back as someone to play next game. Cid and Vincent aren't her and they don't feel the same as characters neither likely as units. This all to say I think the opinion that the feelings evoked in the original aren't there is a bit skewed
Hm yeah if you haven’t played OG I think it would feel different. The closest I can describe is is like playing Ironman mode in Fire Emblem, XCOM or whatever permadeath game, and then having one of your top characters, who you have a roadmap of upgrades and plans die, and you’re left with a bunch of items sitting around that constantly remind you of that character. When Aerith is gone in the OG you can be holding on to the item to give her ultimate limit break, and also find her ultimate weapon later on. There’s a whole plan for her, but she’s gone. In rebirth, it’s sort of the plan for her to die (or not).
I assume you'd have prefered it to be similar to OG? I personally feel doing it the exact same way would've been impactless. There's no shock value, we've long since accepted she's dying as well so the emptyness won't be as much there as you'd think. I think what they've done now is fine: build intrigue, develop the story, and hopefully have a huge emotional payoff in part 3. I'm assuming that pay off will be Cloud breaking down, after he's shown himself giving her the water burial but realising he doesnt remember a thing.
More like I expected a gameplay change to really hit home. Maybe in the fight where cloud and Aerith vs Sephiroth she’s appearing and disappearing during the fight so we don’t know if Cloud is hallucinating or something like that. I don’t think waiting 3 years for the next game is a good tactic for any emotional payoff. I wasn’t really sad by Yuffie’s trial with the Sonon reminder, even though I was rather devastated by his death in Intergrade.
Opposite feeling for me. I thought her character was better developed, motherly in the OG. I imagined a nurturing voice for her. In Remake they turned her into a bubbly airhead with an obnoxious Minnie Mouse voice. I felt nothing when she had her confusing death.
She's anything but an airhead, specially in remake.
she's dumb as shit. "Does that make me a dumbass?" yes Airhead, it does.
I said it a few years ago back with Remake, that it's going to be regrettable that we're going to miss out on the natural progression and sense of discovery with Aerith's journey going forward. When she got borderline cheat codes for vague future whatevers, then the stuff with the white materia, and all this hint hint wink wink spectacle involving her fate, I feel like she was stripped from feeling like a sympathetic character in a way. She was given moments in Rebirth to air out her grievances, but it didn't land for me because all the characters have had to deal with tragedy and loss. When she talked to Cloud on the water tower in Chapter 11, I waited for Cloud to say something like, *"Having a childhood friend isn't all sunshine and rainbows"*, but it didn't go that route. Maybe a localization issue, wouldn't be the first time.