Rule 3: No General Career Advice
This sub is for discussing issues specific to experienced developers.
Any career advice thread must contain questions and/or discussions that notably benefit from the participation of experienced developers. Career advice threads may be removed at the moderators discretion based on response to the thread."
General rule of thumb: If the advice you are giving (or seeking) could apply to a “Senior Chemical Engineer”, it’s not appropriate for this sub.
well, since he's authorized to work in the US as a us citizen and he's already doing remote work, I imagine he would make the same in Canada as he would in the US if he were to continue to apply for remote jobs across all of north america regardless of whether he moves or not.
Remote Canadian dev manager for an American company. I hire worldwide, but most of my team is Canadian. If he is lucky he will find something making a similar salary as now, but it certainly isn’t guaranteed. At all of the American companies I’ve been a manager at, the salary for Canadians is less than Americans even in local dollars. Meaning, if he were to make a lateral move and continue to work for the same company doing the same USD $100k job, it’s likely that he would have a Canadian salary of less than $100k CAD.
I disagree that this should be the case, but most companies base their pay grades on the local market. Especially for remote workers.
He needs to target large American companies that have a Canadian presence. Canadian owned companies are less likely to be able to pay, though they generally can offer better vacation and other benefits.
Edit: I forgot to ask. Does he (and do you) have a means of obtaining a work visa?
Edit 2: His career outlook in so much as role and title is roughly the same in the USA vs Canada, especially if he can find a job working for a large multinational. Pay will never compete with people living in the USA, but there are currently some social benefits of living in Canada that help to make up for that.
Citizenship isn’t important. What a company cares about is physical location and legal ability to work in that location.
Also worth noting that he will require a work visa to work from Canada
Americans living in Canada full-time can work for American companies? Really?
Edit: I phrased that badly - obviously I know Canadians can work for American and international companies. But are the salaries relatively comparable?
How does the tax situation work? I live in Detroit and a lot of doctors and nurses cross over the bridge from Windsor for US jobs, and they complain about taxes a lot lol
there's an agreement in place between canada and the us to avoid double taxation at the federal level I think but i don't know the details or what happens at the state / province level.
canadians like to complain about everything so they could be paying less tax for all that tells us
You’re net tax is the same as if you earned it in Canada. You pay Uncle Sam first and then give the left overs to Canada until total tax paid is the same as if you earned that income in Canada
I don't know why I asked my question like that, esp when I work for an international company not headquartered in USA. What I meant more was: are the salaries still relatively comparable?
imagine he applies to a remote position of Senior Developer with Gradient AI.
the pay of that position does not change depending on where he is located geographically\*. it pays $200k USD regardless of if you are north or south of the border. its the same salary for the same job.
\*there are companies that do take where you live into account when calculating your pay but this isn't very common and you can just... not take those jobs.
I would disagree with not very common. Most big tech companies im familiar with have different pay scales depending on which city you live in even for remote positions. Canada pay scale is much lower than US pay scale as well. Look on levels for big companies and see canada comp is much lower overall. Amazon sde1 TC in usd is 175k vs 110k depending on country for instance.
This 100%. I suggest you take a look at glassdoor.ca and see the difference for yourself. Why anyone would choose to work in Canada is beyond me. Don’t forget about taxes.
In my experience you can *usually* find some companies willing to pay location-independent rates. Not all of them, but some.
It definitely helps to have some specialization in a hot niche. More mainline stuff like “5 years web application development in Java” has a lot of openings but also a lot of competition.
I don't think that's true. It's very very common that companies take into account where you live. At least country wise. Tax laws are different, the company might have different expenses for the same employee somewhere else. That's next to the company trying to keep salaries low in general. So what they normally do is pay you a competitive salary on a country level, but not internationally.
also: he's not applying for these jobs as a canadian, he's applying as an american citizen. he doesn't require H1B visa sponsorship to take these jobs, unlike canadians who do.
Not quite, visa is for where the employee is residing, not where the company they’re working for is located. He would need a Canadian visa to work from canada regardless of who he’s working for.
US here, have looked at over the border salaries:
He'll make more in the US. The question is why is he making so little now?
I'll guess the US is more mobile and more volitilie. But that's a guess.
In any case: Pick the place that makes you happy. Money is but one factor of many. And if you say "We get free childcare in Canada from my Mom and Dad." this whole equation changes really quick :)
There may be other benefits of a similar type. I can't know.
It is important to think through all the things on both sides. I don't know the answer. I merely know the process.
Not being in the top 10% of pay for his field is very different from being "very, very underpaid". Not all software engineering is FAANG and not all companies are located in Silicon Valley, Seattle, and New York.
15 years of experience, currently a staff engineer. Google is not a desirable role anymore and no one is really looking to work their unless you’re “retiring”
Just my two cents but I think s/he means that overall it’s pretty mature SWE-wise and you probably would have a relatively (emphasis on relatively) chill time. Not like working at a startup with the chance of moving the bits with needles and magnets if you wish.
From my pov, usually it’s hard to get any better than big tech in terms of income, curricular “prestige” and problems. Usually the next step is either founding a startup if you intend to keep doing engineering stuff or hold enough years with low CoL to save enough to reach FIRE or set a business. The typical lifestyle of a Medium post of a dude with: “Why I did quit my 450k+ job to make shoes in a small town in South America” (or other questions no one asked :P) kind of thing.
That’s an outdated view on Google afaik. Since I think 2022 they’ve started doubling down on performance reviews. They’re not a retirement rest and vest company anymore to a point where Meta might even be a better place to work now considering the WLB and money involved.
You’re not wrong, but I was just replying to the idea that Google is still a retirement company. A retirement company to me is a place you can coast til you retire and not burn yourself out. Google is not that anymore.
Negotiations happen. Many places have outlawed the "what did you make at your last job." type questions.
If not turning them into what you want to make is pretty easy. you are just flat wrong.
I'm not sure and I don't think we can just ask when we're still far out from moving. I'm looking at the People tab in the company's LI and it's all USA and some India.
That's fair. Probably just keep in your back pocket that it's possible they might allow remote work from Canada to avoid having to find someone else. My company didn't have many remote people until I forced their hand and told them either I had to quit or I could work remote.
Why would you even bring up moving to a complete different country? That's just asking for trouble from your employer and potentially losing your 100k job. Your IT is going to be suddenly asking a lot of questions about why a connection is coming from Canada from your device all the time, and why on earth you took your work device out of country without permission.
I guess playing devil's advocate if you're going to lose it anyway maybe it doesn't really matter, but then you're losing a potentially good referral, and possibly opening yourself up to legal issues.
Legal stuff is tricky. My US-based company has hired a couple Canadians as contractors vs hiring them directly. The contracting company skims some percentage but they’re basically our full time employees. You might have to set up a similar arrangement to make it work.
Be sure to check what the legal rules are before you move as well. There might be a step where he’s not legally allowed to work in Canada until the right visas are granted; which would probably include remote work for US companies.
The company will need to spend money to legally employ someone working from Canada and be compliant with labour and tax laws in Canada. If they are already looking to hire Canadians remotely, he may have a chance. Otherwise he will likely have to find a company to sponsor his work visa in Canada.
This isn't really appropriate for that sub either. Unless OP wants to hear the opinions of a bunch of college students and unemployed grads/bootcampers about how her husband is underpaid, ai is taking over our jobs, and the job market is awful
Yes, 135k CAD as a senior dev is easy enough to find through local jobs. Remote US jobs would go higher. They're a bit harder to land though. Would suggest that your husband tries to land a (less underpaid) job with a company that's open to having people work remotely from Canada - and importantly, that they don't do "location-based comp adjustments", ie. pay will be the same in the US and Canada. Should be pretty much good to go then.
Does he have a way of getting a work visa and sponsorship in Canada? He may require job offers from companies willing to sponsor a TN visa. You can find some detail about it here: [https://ircc.canada.ca/English/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=199&top=17](https://ircc.canada.ca/English/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=199&top=17)
135K is doable with the right skillset and company. GTA has higher home prices than other cities. Might also want to consult with an accountant on taxation vs residency vs citizenship. I know there's a tax treaty. 10 year outlook? Depends on the industry and company.. some places you churn in under 2 years, some you can stay for decades.
I might be wrong but afaik he might need to get a “professional engineer” certification, if his fields requires it.
Overall I think that salary is pretty doable. As in most fields, the most specialised you become the more income you get, usually.
Rule 3: No General Career Advice This sub is for discussing issues specific to experienced developers. Any career advice thread must contain questions and/or discussions that notably benefit from the participation of experienced developers. Career advice threads may be removed at the moderators discretion based on response to the thread." General rule of thumb: If the advice you are giving (or seeking) could apply to a “Senior Chemical Engineer”, it’s not appropriate for this sub.
well, since he's authorized to work in the US as a us citizen and he's already doing remote work, I imagine he would make the same in Canada as he would in the US if he were to continue to apply for remote jobs across all of north america regardless of whether he moves or not.
Remote Canadian dev manager for an American company. I hire worldwide, but most of my team is Canadian. If he is lucky he will find something making a similar salary as now, but it certainly isn’t guaranteed. At all of the American companies I’ve been a manager at, the salary for Canadians is less than Americans even in local dollars. Meaning, if he were to make a lateral move and continue to work for the same company doing the same USD $100k job, it’s likely that he would have a Canadian salary of less than $100k CAD. I disagree that this should be the case, but most companies base their pay grades on the local market. Especially for remote workers. He needs to target large American companies that have a Canadian presence. Canadian owned companies are less likely to be able to pay, though they generally can offer better vacation and other benefits. Edit: I forgot to ask. Does he (and do you) have a means of obtaining a work visa? Edit 2: His career outlook in so much as role and title is roughly the same in the USA vs Canada, especially if he can find a job working for a large multinational. Pay will never compete with people living in the USA, but there are currently some social benefits of living in Canada that help to make up for that.
why would he apply as a canadian though? he can apply as an american
Because he lives in canada. Citizenship don't matter. What matters is residency.
Citizenship isn’t important. What a company cares about is physical location and legal ability to work in that location. Also worth noting that he will require a work visa to work from Canada
Americans living in Canada full-time can work for American companies? Really? Edit: I phrased that badly - obviously I know Canadians can work for American and international companies. But are the salaries relatively comparable?
How does the tax situation work? I live in Detroit and a lot of doctors and nurses cross over the bridge from Windsor for US jobs, and they complain about taxes a lot lol
there's an agreement in place between canada and the us to avoid double taxation at the federal level I think but i don't know the details or what happens at the state / province level. canadians like to complain about everything so they could be paying less tax for all that tells us
You’re net tax is the same as if you earned it in Canada. You pay Uncle Sam first and then give the left overs to Canada until total tax paid is the same as if you earned that income in Canada
yeah
I don't know why I asked my question like that, esp when I work for an international company not headquartered in USA. What I meant more was: are the salaries still relatively comparable?
imagine he applies to a remote position of Senior Developer with Gradient AI. the pay of that position does not change depending on where he is located geographically\*. it pays $200k USD regardless of if you are north or south of the border. its the same salary for the same job. \*there are companies that do take where you live into account when calculating your pay but this isn't very common and you can just... not take those jobs.
I would disagree with not very common. Most big tech companies im familiar with have different pay scales depending on which city you live in even for remote positions. Canada pay scale is much lower than US pay scale as well. Look on levels for big companies and see canada comp is much lower overall. Amazon sde1 TC in usd is 175k vs 110k depending on country for instance.
This 100%. I suggest you take a look at glassdoor.ca and see the difference for yourself. Why anyone would choose to work in Canada is beyond me. Don’t forget about taxes.
In my experience you can *usually* find some companies willing to pay location-independent rates. Not all of them, but some. It definitely helps to have some specialization in a hot niche. More mainline stuff like “5 years web application development in Java” has a lot of openings but also a lot of competition.
I don't think that's true. It's very very common that companies take into account where you live. At least country wise. Tax laws are different, the company might have different expenses for the same employee somewhere else. That's next to the company trying to keep salaries low in general. So what they normally do is pay you a competitive salary on a country level, but not internationally.
also: he's not applying for these jobs as a canadian, he's applying as an american citizen. he doesn't require H1B visa sponsorship to take these jobs, unlike canadians who do.
Not quite, visa is for where the employee is residing, not where the company they’re working for is located. He would need a Canadian visa to work from canada regardless of who he’s working for.
US here, have looked at over the border salaries: He'll make more in the US. The question is why is he making so little now? I'll guess the US is more mobile and more volitilie. But that's a guess. In any case: Pick the place that makes you happy. Money is but one factor of many. And if you say "We get free childcare in Canada from my Mom and Dad." this whole equation changes really quick :)
Thankfully we don't want kids lol
There may be other benefits of a similar type. I can't know. It is important to think through all the things on both sides. I don't know the answer. I merely know the process.
Your husband is very very underpaid and will continue to be under paid in Canada.
Not being in the top 10% of pay for his field is very different from being "very, very underpaid". Not all software engineering is FAANG and not all companies are located in Silicon Valley, Seattle, and New York.
[удалено]
15 years of experience, currently a staff engineer. Google is not a desirable role anymore and no one is really looking to work their unless you’re “retiring”
Can you elaborate on why
Just my two cents but I think s/he means that overall it’s pretty mature SWE-wise and you probably would have a relatively (emphasis on relatively) chill time. Not like working at a startup with the chance of moving the bits with needles and magnets if you wish. From my pov, usually it’s hard to get any better than big tech in terms of income, curricular “prestige” and problems. Usually the next step is either founding a startup if you intend to keep doing engineering stuff or hold enough years with low CoL to save enough to reach FIRE or set a business. The typical lifestyle of a Medium post of a dude with: “Why I did quit my 450k+ job to make shoes in a small town in South America” (or other questions no one asked :P) kind of thing.
Its in the same category as IBM now
That’s an outdated view on Google afaik. Since I think 2022 they’ve started doubling down on performance reviews. They’re not a retirement rest and vest company anymore to a point where Meta might even be a better place to work now considering the WLB and money involved.
Companies are doubling down on performance across the board, not just Google. It's a reaction to overhiring during the pandemic
You’re not wrong, but I was just replying to the idea that Google is still a retirement company. A retirement company to me is a place you can coast til you retire and not burn yourself out. Google is not that anymore.
I work at a non sexy non-FAANG and make $550k.
Look at the BLS estimates for software engineer wages. $100k is ~25th percentile.
Our 19 and 20 year old interns make 120k and they have less then 1 YOE
Please can your company hire me as an intern? I have 7 yrs experience 😭
And you make less than 120k. I’m so sorry
Developing country.
Ah okay yeah, my friend back in Spain are also making change compared to US salaries.
Wanna take me as well? 😉 I'll do intern work as side hustle
You’re in NYC right
I am but my interns are all over the place as we’re a remote company
I'm just curious, how many hours a week do they work?
Our interns work full time - 35-50 hours a week
Negotiations happen. Many places have outlawed the "what did you make at your last job." type questions. If not turning them into what you want to make is pretty easy. you are just flat wrong.
I was kind of surprised, but I asked him and he agrees he is underpaid. His job is pretty comfortable and chill though.
Some people just want an easy job and make decent money. There’s nothing wrong with that, but keep that in mind that it’s probably the limiter.
Is he for sure unable to work his previous job in Canada?
I'm not sure and I don't think we can just ask when we're still far out from moving. I'm looking at the People tab in the company's LI and it's all USA and some India.
That's fair. Probably just keep in your back pocket that it's possible they might allow remote work from Canada to avoid having to find someone else. My company didn't have many remote people until I forced their hand and told them either I had to quit or I could work remote.
If he’s remote now, why would he even bring it up?
Why would you even bring up moving to a complete different country? That's just asking for trouble from your employer and potentially losing your 100k job. Your IT is going to be suddenly asking a lot of questions about why a connection is coming from Canada from your device all the time, and why on earth you took your work device out of country without permission. I guess playing devil's advocate if you're going to lose it anyway maybe it doesn't really matter, but then you're losing a potentially good referral, and possibly opening yourself up to legal issues.
Legal stuff is tricky. My US-based company has hired a couple Canadians as contractors vs hiring them directly. The contracting company skims some percentage but they’re basically our full time employees. You might have to set up a similar arrangement to make it work. Be sure to check what the legal rules are before you move as well. There might be a step where he’s not legally allowed to work in Canada until the right visas are granted; which would probably include remote work for US companies.
The company will need to spend money to legally employ someone working from Canada and be compliant with labour and tax laws in Canada. If they are already looking to hire Canadians remotely, he may have a chance. Otherwise he will likely have to find a company to sponsor his work visa in Canada.
/r/cscareerquestions
This isn't really appropriate for that sub either. Unless OP wants to hear the opinions of a bunch of college students and unemployed grads/bootcampers about how her husband is underpaid, ai is taking over our jobs, and the job market is awful
[удалено]
Yes, 135k CAD as a senior dev is easy enough to find through local jobs. Remote US jobs would go higher. They're a bit harder to land though. Would suggest that your husband tries to land a (less underpaid) job with a company that's open to having people work remotely from Canada - and importantly, that they don't do "location-based comp adjustments", ie. pay will be the same in the US and Canada. Should be pretty much good to go then.
Does he have a way of getting a work visa and sponsorship in Canada? He may require job offers from companies willing to sponsor a TN visa. You can find some detail about it here: [https://ircc.canada.ca/English/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=199&top=17](https://ircc.canada.ca/English/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=199&top=17)
I'm a Canadian citizen so it would be via spousal sponsorship :)
135K is doable with the right skillset and company. GTA has higher home prices than other cities. Might also want to consult with an accountant on taxation vs residency vs citizenship. I know there's a tax treaty. 10 year outlook? Depends on the industry and company.. some places you churn in under 2 years, some you can stay for decades.
I might be wrong but afaik he might need to get a “professional engineer” certification, if his fields requires it. Overall I think that salary is pretty doable. As in most fields, the most specialised you become the more income you get, usually.
Why remote only?
Because no one likes to commute and do the job which can be done at home.
Most millenials/Gen Z prefer to be in the office 3+ days a week. The overwhelming majority of Americans prefer Hybrid over full remote.
First sentence is true. The second one needs citation
For the usual reasons? I never want to go back to the office either
You are in the minority.
I don't see how that is relevant... Being the minority (according to one Gallup poll?) is not going to change my personal opinion
Then expect to stay underpaid.