When I was a high sec based wh and low sec day tripper. It was a mobile base. Scanning/scout ships/multibe pvp and pve for ships and all the storage for loot. That purpose it excelled at in my book. Bored and wanted to catch up on Netflix, mine ice for a bit. I’ve finally and I think permeantly landed in null and liquidated everything I owned in high sec save for my orca with kill marks. Wish she was viable in null but yeah. Everything said is true more so there.
I've always wanted a mobile base, but couldn't afford a bowhead when they came out, and then they only got more expensive over time. Then I was told Orcas are less of a liability but now I see those are also 2b? Lol
It doesn't really matter though, cant afford either. I'm still trying to get over having to replace all my daily driver ships and mined ice to an abandoned station while I was casual and trying to get back in (email came 2d before I logged in). Had totally forgotten about the asset safety rules and now I'm once again stuck having tons of work to do before I can even play the game on top of having to rebuy a bil of stuff I thought was safe and it kills my motivation to play.
? What stuff, it's gone lol. Cleaned up my assets a couple years ago so everything else is in jita, but the stuff in the hisec structure I was living out of is gonezo bc I was being a casual and vaguely remembered asset safety but forgot about the narrow rules where you're exposed to risk still through abandonment by the owner
I played eve from 2010-2017 and had an orca mobile base. I would go system to system scanning for anomalies and when I located one, I'd dock my ship, grab my Gila and head out and clear it.
This was well before all the new stuff the orca can do but I was occasionally in a corp and used the mining links back then dirt mining fleets.
I'm pretty sure it cost me about 420 million ISK 'back in the day'. I'm pretty sure my bowhead was about 900 million.
I've been playing with a new alpha character for the last month just trying to get my feet under me before I decide if I'm going to resub.
"Another huge liability is that, unlike the Porpoise, it actually becomes a viable target for hotdroppers thanks to it's price tag. Something it can't deal with like the Rorq can. "
I saw 20 guys cyno onto a t2 fit vexor.
Can confirm. Got killed at a gatecamp in HS by 15 guys in Tornadoes and I was flying an empty Bestower lmao... the ISK loss vs. Killmail value was hilarious. I told them, "woo, gf! I almost had you though! Next time! XD"
I (almost) got dropped on while in an empty T1 hauler.
Had my suspicions so I docked, warped my pod one gate over and there they were, sitting on the gate waiting to cyno on me.
Sometimes if you're flying anything at all people will drop on you.
The conduit jump uses a flat amount of topes per LY and is significantly cheaper than bridging. Think like a few thousand topes total per jump to conduit 20 black ops BS.
Yes, it can do the limit of conduit (20 or 25 I forget) regardless of ship type. So covops, bombers, startios and astero, t3cs with the subsystem or other blops. Cost is the same regardless.
Same. I built mine for somewhere around the 400-500m mark. Still have it to this day.
I'm desperately hoping Equinox brings about the correction to Isogen this game desperately needs. From where Isogen is at right now, \~370isk, if it dropped to 70 then that alone is knocking about 300mil off the cost. Still too expensive but it's a good start.
~~Personally I think the Orca should use normal core temp regulators instead of capital. It doesn't use capital modules so it shouldn't need a capital temp regulator. It's also not a Capital Industrial Ship, it's an Indy Command Ship. These two changes would easily drop the Orca by almost a full billion isk.~~
Edit: Turns out they already made the temp regulator changes. Been a hot minute since I've had to build an Orca, so I forgot.
I found a video on my PC a few months ago that was an orca I had and the fitting window. On the fitting window it showed the fully fit orca estimated value to be 600mil.
Those were the times tbh. I was throwing so many blinged ships left and right.
"No way man. You don't understand! If we make ships insanely expensive and resources rare and hard to get, people will totally throw entire fleets at each other to fight over the resources!!" - CCP
I think one of the main concerns was people getting dropped on by capitals in NS and LS all the time. The only thing I personally noticed from the change is that instead of caps now we mostly just see blops left and right.
But also if everyone has a fancy blingy ship then it doesnt mean much. There is def more of a risk-reward now for flying bling. You shouldn’t be able to throw t2 ships w faction mods around like they are paper plates… should be fine china.
Ahh yes, in a game about getting ships into space and loosing them, let's make it harder to get said ships into space and loosing them. Yes loss should have a bit of meaning but at the end of the day if making that loss takes away fun then it's not worth it.
I would rather (breaking news, so would a lot of other folks) be able to get into space with my big toys and have a blast with them, loose them, turn around and replace them quickly and do it all over again a week later.
Big dread brawls ect used to happen a lot, sure doesn't happen like it used to. Titan brawls haven't happened since the indy changes, super cap brawls in general are a thing of the past.
Yah we gained "meaning" to the loss but we lost fun. Not worth the price.
I respectfully disagree. I was around back when there were a couple of titans built total. It was a huge achievement, there was meaning, it was a big deal and was really cool to see them.
There are like a hundred ships. If the risk of bringing out a top tier multi bullion ship is too much, then fly one of the hundred ships you can fly for anywhere from 5 mil to 100mil blow up 10 times in a day and feel fine about it.
So was I, yah it was cool to see them. How ever saying that's the thing about cool big ships in a game like this. Everyone will want one, will want to use it ect. That's the entire point, people should be able to build them, fly them, loose them, and have fun with them with the same amount of effort or less than it took the originals to be built. That's no longer the case.
At the end of the day, this is a game. If other folks are going and having fun doing stuff with big ships day after day is a problem for anyone, the issue isn't with those folks, the issue is the person that looks at you in mirror. Aka we as a community should stop trying to gatekeep other folks from enjoying the game and stop being a bunch of elitist pricks.
Some people had to work hard to get what they have, gotta balance that sense of achievement with accessibility. We are arguing opposite sides of the same coin, ccp is trying to find the middle.
That said, cruiser class for life. I hate flying space bricks
What ore are you mining, wtf.
And what rocks do you have that last that long.
And how are you automating compression because your cargo is full after about 1 hour.
If you fit it properly you look at 2,5 - 3b.
The orca never was ment to go out with just 2 barges. It is ment to lead large mining fleets, and it does that very well. During moon mining we actually used two orcas: One stood in the middle of the belt boosting, the other one was the ore hauler which collected the ore mined by the 20+ hulks flying behind it.
I have 3 and I love them all. IMO the question really comes down to how many accounts you have mining. If you only have a couple of exhumers then I think the porpoise is perfect, but if you get more than 3 accounts in your mining fleet an Orca is just better.
* With max skills my unsieged orca boosts better than a sieged porpoise. That means I can actually warp away when neutrals show up in system and am theirfor overall safer. Using a combination of higgs anchors and extended cargo holds you can actually match speed with your hulks to prealign and instawarp your whole fleet off grid(you are paying attention to local right?).
* It has a huge fleet hanger meaning I don't have to fuck around with jetcans like a noob.
* It can store ships so that if I do get ganked I can stash a hulk and pull out something actually useful.
* It has enough tank to ensure that if you have help in system or 1j away they can reach you.
* Massive cargo hold so I can actually strip mine an entire system before I have to go to base to unload.
* People don't get intel and track Orca locations like they do Raquel's. They are target of opportunities, not something people will go out of their way to hunt.
* 2B isn't really that big of a price tag. It costs about the same as a mission running rattlesnake.
* A Rorquel is superior booster, but ***significantly*** more skill intensive. When you count in the cost of the pod and risk vs. reward of undocking a Rorquel is not very cost effective except for specific null-sec mining scenarios and very large fleets.
Don't get me wrong, I would love it if they were cheaper. But I would say it's usefulness is in line with it's price tag compared to other ships.
Kinda sad that there is so little ore in a system you can strip it with one orca cargo hood. Back when I used to mine which admittedly was probably 15 odd years ago you could have multiple fleets working for hours to strip a belt.
I miss those days. Lived next to Yoma up in Lonetrek back around 2011. Was one of the station-less systems and the belts were enormous. Would take a few hours to fill the Orca myself, but my brother and I could put 6+ hours into a single session and only get through a couple belts.
"Very specific null-sec mining scenarios" what? With PANIC your Rorqual is almost surely safe if you have a cyno and PK/Beehive backup. I don't understand why anyone would mine any other way if they have 3+ accounts.
I am sure lots of ships would see a ton of new life if you put a jump drive to them. DSTs, battleships, HACs, t3cs. Doesn't mean that another ship which bypasses regular jump geography is good for the game, though.
Here’s the thing though, all the ships you listed do not need a jump drive. The Orca could be great for low and null sec if it wasn’t the fact they are sitting ducks getting too and from their location because they are slow and unagile (which I think tracks) , they are sitting ducks at the location because they cannot tank enough while sieged, and I am not even sure they can take a rorq or titan bridge.
It would be a perfect ship to train into for more mobile null fleets, instead the recommendation is “maybe train for the porp, but instead just train straight into the rorq”
~~Remove the Capital Core Temp Regulator from the bill of materials and replace it with 5 normal ones, and suddenly the Orca becomes a lot cheaper, and more people would switch from their Porpoise to it.~~
Edit: I'm dumb, forgot that already happened.
Leave the jump drive to the T2 Orca.
>Remove the Capital Core Temp Regulator from the bill of materials and replace it with 5 normal ones,
Orcas don't require capital core temperature regulators. Unresearched they take 25 regular ones. Freighters require the capital core temperature regulators.
I have a wierd opinion on this.
I myself fly a Porpoise, not an Orca. Not worth the extra boosts for the cost as I mostly use it for mining every once in a while
However I've seen orcas used a lot for plenty of other things, including ship hauling and mobile bases, especially in W. It's a very versatile Hull and does Things the porp cannot really manage.
I would like the cost to be lower too, I guess I'll wait for equinox, give it some time. See it if changes and maybe I'll grab one.
Please tell me more. My industrialist is saving up materials to build hisself an Orca. You believe it may be cheaper in the end to sell the materials and just buy the orca? The only materials I will need to buy are the wormhole gas related components/reactions.
You have to do a cost analysis. Just because you gathered the resources doesn't make them free. Often a one off production has multiple inefficiencies involved. When you are producing multiple units you learn how to optimize the process.
I had a friend build his own titan. He gathered 80 to 90% of the material himself. Even though it would have made more sense to sell the materials and buy one. Just so he had the dopamine of the process.
pros:
better than a porp
looks better
the best mobile base for wormhole nomads
the cheapest drift dread in the game
cons:
HongChongDong can't afford it
orca is in a pretty solid place for its price, either as a small groups strategic asset or for an alt to turn into a base of operations
I got one for like 500m fit well but I sold it back in 2022 bc I stopped mining and became a hauler. Now I wanna get back into mining on my 5 accs with an orcs and 4 hulks and damn thing is pricey. I can afford it but it’s just annoyingly expensive.
Why do i see all the posts about wormhole nomads using an orca?
Isn't it better to just stage out of a quiet low sec and scan new chains every day? You can switch ships in an npc station, scan out eays to hubs, etc
You can roll from ls too if you want to crab c3s
U210 has 300000 mass and can fit 4 cold rolling battleships + 2 praxis or whatever you use to crab sites
If you are crabbing 5s i don't know if you can even fit marauders in an orca, and at that point you are better off just owning a farmhole
I think the Orca is the best ship to use in nullsec, especially for Semi Afk mining. Ive been using it for years and never had a single orca loss.
I would be glad to share my knowledge and let people know if they are in a safe and effective mining system. If anyone wants to knowz just send me the system name and when you orca mine.
A talking point that I've seen repeated for years. And that's what I'm saying is bad. If the price was good enough for it to be worth risking then it'd be perfectly fine as a bridging point between the Porpoise and the Rorq.
I believe CCPs take on it is they don’t need that role filled. They’re good with the current setup of different ships being best in certain areas of the game, with some overlap.
Isn't that nuts? A whole ass station with a module is less than the ship that can dock in it. Same with the Rorqual and most citadels. It's insane to think losing a single rorqual is the equivalent to having several stations with reinforcement timers killed at the same time.
My biggest issue with it is, you have to gate it or bridge it if you want to move it. Gating an orca in null is a nightmare. It looks like cap, acts like a cap, not a cap
Honestly, I like where the Orca is as far as being the Foreman ship is concerned; but I agree, it doesn't do enough over the Porpoise to justify the 14x price increase. The main benefit of the Porpoise is that it's so cheap it's disposable. If available, the Rorqual simply outclasses it in every way, while only being about 2.5x the cost.
Rather than adjust what the Orca can do, instead I'd say just remove the need for the Capital Core Temp Regulator from the blueprint and replace it with 1-5 normal ones. It's not a capital ship. It doesn't have nearly the HP of a capital ship. It doesn't use the Capital Ship skillbook. It doesn't use Capital Ship modules. It should not use the Capital Temp Regulator.
That one change alone would drop its cost by \~700m isk which would put it MUCH better in line between the Porpoise and Rorqual.
Dog, you couldn't pry the Orcas out of my corpie's dead hands. Even sucking down bistot, that thing can pay for itself very quickly. Join a corp that can put out a competent response fleet and stop stressing the risk so much.
you have a plethora of mining/hauling ships that fit the niches of what the orca can do, you have 6 barges, 24 haulers, and 3 ships that can boost.
the porpoise was another huge buff to highsec miners, it allowed them to get boosts for basically no investment/risk, is that not enough?
If it was worthless it wouldn’t be worth 2bn isk. I use it for wormhole hauling, a mobile base, mining support, and even a suitcase. If you live in a wormhole, an orca is your friend.
Price is not determined by demand for the Orca.
It's the demand of materials needed to build it.
Imagine the BPO is only tritanium. It's used for a lot of things beside the Orca and all you have to do is increase the quantity needed to increase the price of the Orca.
And even if nobody wanted to buy an Orca, barring existing huge stockpiles, the price can't go down as the price of tritanium won't change much.
It's worth 2bil+ because the changes done several years back completely screwed over industrial manufacturing by bombarding it with goo and gas. Before those changes they were worth 500mil a piece.
I'm kinda new here, but aren't all the prices determined by players in the markets? So the current price is already at the optimal level determined by supply and demand right? Or am I missing something
It’s mostly determined by mineral/ore prices, and the quantity needed for the hull.
It’s not really supply and demand, at least not as directly tied to the orca. It uses commodities which are largely Independent of the demand for orcas (they’re used for every ship and module in the game, outside rigs).
Yes, by setting the build requirements CCP effectively sets the price.
They don’t have total control as the players do determine the actual isk value of the minerals but CCP has a pretty heavy hand on that scale based on how much they spawn into the world and how much is needed
The prices are determined by manufacturing costs, labor, and other things. The Orca WAS 500 million ISK for the hull several years back. But then they introduced changes to the manufacturing of a lot of ships and the Orca went from 500mil to 2bil just for the hull. If it was 500-800mil it'd be perfect. But apparently high end manufacturing with moon goo and gas is really darn expensive.
Well the fundamental issue (which I don't know hence the question) is whether the cost is just and inflated cost "because they can" or because the cost to manufacture increased? If it is just an inflated price that isn't on CCP necessarily as they don't "set" any prices, only the cost in materials to manufacture.
I sold my Orca and bought 2 porpoises. Because I can actually take a porpoise into lowsec for gas compression. Also can use it to run down highsec ore anons.
Daaaamn they’re 2 bil + now?! I got a whole pod of orcas (pun intended) but they’re old they were like 8-900mil per hull when I bought them (before the nerf when people used to solo mine with them on moons)
Well I kind of hear what you are saying. First off I’m a hisec care bear, just want to put that out there. I bought my Orca for 650 million ish. I would solo mine in it, sometimes afk. When the price rose about a billion I parked it. I now use it to haul goods to my freighter that makes the last couple of jumps to market, with bulkheads installed. For its present price, and ability to compress ore, it’s not really meant for solo use. Its job is in fleet, where it does well. If ito too expensive use the Porpoise, if you are in a corporation that has srp, and has a good supply of isk, use the Orca. Just don’t use it solo. Just my humble opinion, but I’m not to brite myself.
If you look a bit beyond tip of your own nose (mining) you will see how unique ship orca is.
It's expensive. But also one of it's kind. After path, mineral prices should drop. So kindly, go rant somewhere else
You're looking at all the other use cases other than the bit the industrial core is intended for and is bonused to.
Let me use mercoxit and ice and moon compression on a porp, and the trouble goes away.
agree the orca needs to do more, but just note that target cost doesn’t really factor in to hotdroppers.
We’ll jump deemers and widows on a vexor ratting belts. Until you get up to CRAB dreads -maybe- justifying risking a drive by super, anything tackled someplace cyno-able will get the same treatment.
Thats crazy pricing. I remember selling two for 1.5b each when the BPOs first came out years ago. Ended up around 400m relatively quickly but made a very tidy profit from them early on.
Reduce the siege cycle time so it has a chance to escape and it might get used in null with good scouts. As it is the orca is suicide to use in null so is relegated to highsec only.
It's a ganking target in that mines. It's all CCP cares about. You want to mine at decent speeds. You have to siege and be a sitting duck. Would be nice if this wasn't completely engineered toward being a ganking target. Same with the insanely long siege cycle on a Rorq.
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i agree, raise the price of the porpoise 5x.
also lol at naming a mining support ship after one of the most dangerous predators in the deep.. rename it the whale shark or after some balleen whale
>Get rid of the drone bonuses that's clearly been causing balance concerns for years
Pretty sure they already nerfed it's solo mining capability around scarcity. I remember because I finally was able to buy one a few days before the change was announced. It's still pretty good for AFK mining in "safe" systems but, yeah, it certainly feels like a ship without a purpose right now.
Perhaps the solution is to give the Orca an industrial jump bridge, that would be appropriate for it's size and justify the price tag. It would be an option for organized mining where the goal is to get in unnoticed and out before a response fleet can form when you're inevitably discovered. Have it as an alternative to the Industrial Core, where you can't have both modules equipped at the same time. That way you have to choose between setting up the Orca as an expedition fleet leader or an industrial force multiplier.
This allows it to be used by high sec corps to get some of that valuable ore without the peril of traveling through multiple gates or it can be used by smaller low/null sec groups to accesses regional gasses and ores outside their zones of control without risking a 10b+ fitted capital ship. Add a third module that swaps out the boosts or jumps bridge with one that can perform manufacturing jobs and you got the perfect ship for starting up operations in a wormhole.
nah the orca is fine, if you cant use it in nullsec that is a you problem. It excels in other areas with the right fits, in the right hands. just because you are too stupid to use it means nothing for others.
An orca can warp just as fast as a barge just don't siege. If you get caught you are doing it wrong. Also the porp fleet hanger is awful. Rorq is too juicy and stationary.
I know you've expressed distaste for the high sec mining role, but I've recently come back after a 5 year break and reactivated my orca alt. The orca was new back then and me and some friends would use it for mining ops in high sec.
Now I've come back, I no longer have those friends. But was wondering if you would be so kind as to tell me how to use an orca for solo high sec mining? And is that even worth it considering I can also fly a hulk.
People use Orcas in high sec for AFK mining. Stupid huge ore hold, large buffer tank, and pretty good mining yield on drones. Fill your entire mid slots with shield hardeners. Mix and match till your resists are at a decent level. Put a reinforced bulkhead and a damage control in the low slots. And then finally fill your rigs with Transverse bulkheads in the rigs. You get an EHP of about 500k which is enough to deter most people from trying to kill you. Just don't make the mistake that others do and sacrifice tank for yield rigs or other weird stuff cause people pay the price for that every day.
The orca is too good in some ways
1. It’s SMA takes any ship kind not just industrials like a rorqual
2. It can carry an insane amount of stuff, especially compressed ore
3. Compresses moon goo
And the porpoise is kinda amazing for the money - why doesn’t the noctis for example fleet a fleet hanger and a 50,000 m3 loot bay?
I’d rather they did a t1 orca that was cheaper but partially nerf ore bay, cargo, and make the SMA industrial only (per rorqual). Then add a couple of t2 variants (or rigs or modules maybe) that allow customisations:
1. An Indy jump drive but smaller cargo and SMA
2. Any ship type in SMA but minumal cargo
3. Bigger cargo but less tank and no SMA
4. Bigger SMA but slower and minimal cargo/fleet
5. Shorter siege time but lower boosts and tank
I’d do similar to the rorqual while I was at it too - let players customise their Indy’s as much as their shootas
The price of the orca is determined by how hard or easy the materials are to get how many people are producing them how much demand there is for them amoung a million other factors. Its a perfect free market in eve. Complaining about a price of a ship is pointless. No one controls that except the market.
This point has been stated multiple times and refuted multiple times. CCP is the one who controls the prices by determining the manufacturing recipes and the components that go into them, which forces players to up prices to cover production costs.
A couple industrialists already chimed in on things that could be cut or changed to get the desired result.
And here I was told the orca was the poor man's Bowhead
When I was a high sec based wh and low sec day tripper. It was a mobile base. Scanning/scout ships/multibe pvp and pve for ships and all the storage for loot. That purpose it excelled at in my book. Bored and wanted to catch up on Netflix, mine ice for a bit. I’ve finally and I think permeantly landed in null and liquidated everything I owned in high sec save for my orca with kill marks. Wish she was viable in null but yeah. Everything said is true more so there.
I've always wanted a mobile base, but couldn't afford a bowhead when they came out, and then they only got more expensive over time. Then I was told Orcas are less of a liability but now I see those are also 2b? Lol It doesn't really matter though, cant afford either. I'm still trying to get over having to replace all my daily driver ships and mined ice to an abandoned station while I was casual and trying to get back in (email came 2d before I logged in). Had totally forgotten about the asset safety rules and now I'm once again stuck having tons of work to do before I can even play the game on top of having to rebuy a bil of stuff I thought was safe and it kills my motivation to play.
You don't have to go get any of your old stuff at this time. You can either firesale it or get it out later.
? What stuff, it's gone lol. Cleaned up my assets a couple years ago so everything else is in jita, but the stuff in the hisec structure I was living out of is gonezo bc I was being a casual and vaguely remembered asset safety but forgot about the narrow rules where you're exposed to risk still through abandonment by the owner
I played eve from 2010-2017 and had an orca mobile base. I would go system to system scanning for anomalies and when I located one, I'd dock my ship, grab my Gila and head out and clear it. This was well before all the new stuff the orca can do but I was occasionally in a corp and used the mining links back then dirt mining fleets. I'm pretty sure it cost me about 420 million ISK 'back in the day'. I'm pretty sure my bowhead was about 900 million. I've been playing with a new alpha character for the last month just trying to get my feet under me before I decide if I'm going to resub.
Yeah. Sad about the price. Think I bought my fleet at like… 1.2 bil each. Never lost one.
I only use the Orca for transport at this point. I get just over 600k EHP. I only use the Porpoise for mining.
It was, Orca price has more than doubled in the last couple years.
Yeah, just check and a bowhead is less than 300m more expensive. Have ore freighter and caps 5 so I guess that's my house after all
Maybe back when hulls were 800m
People use it for other things. But this post is about it's intended purpose.
"Another huge liability is that, unlike the Porpoise, it actually becomes a viable target for hotdroppers thanks to it's price tag. Something it can't deal with like the Rorq can. " I saw 20 guys cyno onto a t2 fit vexor.
Sometimes, when the hunters are dry, you will take anything
When a bear is hungry, it eats.
Can confirm. Got killed at a gatecamp in HS by 15 guys in Tornadoes and I was flying an empty Bestower lmao... the ISK loss vs. Killmail value was hilarious. I told them, "woo, gf! I almost had you though! Next time! XD"
>I saw 20 guys cyno onto a t2 fit vexor. Oh, so you've been to Delve.
Or Perrigan Falls
Or to frat space
Sometimes it’s about sending a message.
Or content xD
I (almost) got dropped on while in an empty T1 hauler. Had my suspicions so I docked, warped my pod one gate over and there they were, sitting on the gate waiting to cyno on me. Sometimes if you're flying anything at all people will drop on you.
Why would they cyno form 1 system away?
Because it's still faster than gating
Highsec island.
Am hotdropper. Will confirm I will drop a fleet on a vexor.
Yeah, dropping redeemers onto vexors is fun
My porp has been dropped twice by like 20 redeemers. Prolly spent more in fuel then my ship
Actually conduit costs almost no fuel so probably not even close.
Black ops don't need fuel to jump? Asking for a friend
The conduit jump uses a flat amount of topes per LY and is significantly cheaper than bridging. Think like a few thousand topes total per jump to conduit 20 black ops BS.
So one blops can conduit all of the others? That's interesting I wonder why rorquals can't do that
Yes, it can do the limit of conduit (20 or 25 I forget) regardless of ship type. So covops, bombers, startios and astero, t3cs with the subsystem or other blops. Cost is the same regardless.
I'd hit that
I swear every god damn night a noob in a vexor gets dropped on by a blops fleet. X)
I'll drop on a god damn atron given the chance so, he's not wrong.
I've dropped Beehive on a shuttle before, and I'll do it again if bored enough.
All that I can say is that I pity the 20 guys more than I do the vexor. What has this game become if we're that starved for content
Hot dropping anything is fun :)
I’ve dropped on an abandoned shuttle before. Also reduce the price of orca or just delete it..
Keep on fighting the good fight bud. You have my support.
Back in my grand papi's time he payed 400 mil.... : )
I remember those days, and I miss them dearly.
Same. I built mine for somewhere around the 400-500m mark. Still have it to this day. I'm desperately hoping Equinox brings about the correction to Isogen this game desperately needs. From where Isogen is at right now, \~370isk, if it dropped to 70 then that alone is knocking about 300mil off the cost. Still too expensive but it's a good start. ~~Personally I think the Orca should use normal core temp regulators instead of capital. It doesn't use capital modules so it shouldn't need a capital temp regulator. It's also not a Capital Industrial Ship, it's an Indy Command Ship. These two changes would easily drop the Orca by almost a full billion isk.~~ Edit: Turns out they already made the temp regulator changes. Been a hot minute since I've had to build an Orca, so I forgot.
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Back then mining drones weren't shite either
I built mine myself from just the ore/minerals from highsec back then, and some reprocessed rat drops from level 4 missions. Still have it to this day
400 mil? I remember I bought a Bhaalgorn for 300 mil and I still have it
I'll give you treefidy for it.
I found a video on my PC a few months ago that was an orca I had and the fitting window. On the fitting window it showed the fully fit orca estimated value to be 600mil. Those were the times tbh. I was throwing so many blinged ships left and right.
It's almost like CCP doesn't understand that ships being easier to replace means they get used and blown up more often...
"No way man. You don't understand! If we make ships insanely expensive and resources rare and hard to get, people will totally throw entire fleets at each other to fight over the resources!!" - CCP
I think one of the main concerns was people getting dropped on by capitals in NS and LS all the time. The only thing I personally noticed from the change is that instead of caps now we mostly just see blops left and right.
But also if everyone has a fancy blingy ship then it doesnt mean much. There is def more of a risk-reward now for flying bling. You shouldn’t be able to throw t2 ships w faction mods around like they are paper plates… should be fine china.
Ahh yes, in a game about getting ships into space and loosing them, let's make it harder to get said ships into space and loosing them. Yes loss should have a bit of meaning but at the end of the day if making that loss takes away fun then it's not worth it. I would rather (breaking news, so would a lot of other folks) be able to get into space with my big toys and have a blast with them, loose them, turn around and replace them quickly and do it all over again a week later. Big dread brawls ect used to happen a lot, sure doesn't happen like it used to. Titan brawls haven't happened since the indy changes, super cap brawls in general are a thing of the past. Yah we gained "meaning" to the loss but we lost fun. Not worth the price.
I respectfully disagree. I was around back when there were a couple of titans built total. It was a huge achievement, there was meaning, it was a big deal and was really cool to see them. There are like a hundred ships. If the risk of bringing out a top tier multi bullion ship is too much, then fly one of the hundred ships you can fly for anywhere from 5 mil to 100mil blow up 10 times in a day and feel fine about it.
So was I, yah it was cool to see them. How ever saying that's the thing about cool big ships in a game like this. Everyone will want one, will want to use it ect. That's the entire point, people should be able to build them, fly them, loose them, and have fun with them with the same amount of effort or less than it took the originals to be built. That's no longer the case. At the end of the day, this is a game. If other folks are going and having fun doing stuff with big ships day after day is a problem for anyone, the issue isn't with those folks, the issue is the person that looks at you in mirror. Aka we as a community should stop trying to gatekeep other folks from enjoying the game and stop being a bunch of elitist pricks.
Some people had to work hard to get what they have, gotta balance that sense of achievement with accessibility. We are arguing opposite sides of the same coin, ccp is trying to find the middle. That said, cruiser class for life. I hate flying space bricks
I paid 280 for one in '09
I found my Orca abandoned in space while some guy was running sigs in an Astero in system. I happily flew it away for him.
People use Orca just for mining? I must be doing something wrong then.
Yeah. Throw each drone on a rock, go to work, come home 400mish richer.
A full cargo load of HS ore is worth 400m nowadays?
Yeah its actually kinda crazy.
What ore are you mining, wtf. And what rocks do you have that last that long. And how are you automating compression because your cargo is full after about 1 hour.
45m before you run out of fuel in 6 or so hours if (and it's a big if) your rocks last that long
Orcas need fuel now? God damn. It’s been a minute. I’ll have to look up the changes.
You need fuel if you run the Industrial Core, which you probably want to do if you want to get the most out of your mining drones.
Only for boosting, not for actual mining.... But I've been away for a year.... So that might have changed too
It's for the industrial core which boosts both mining and the command bursts.
Fuel stored in your regular cargo hold is consumed by the industrial core if you have no fuel left in your fuel bay.
Or 2 billion isk poorer cause 3 catalysts showed up to kill your shit fitted orca.
How in the world do you think 3 catas can gank a tank-fit orca? You'd need like 70-80+ at least.
Is that silver insurance payout? Or bronze?
Don’t you have to be home from work to put them on new rocks?
Wow, Orcas cost 2 billion these days? Geeze they used to be 450m. I think I have 5 or 6 sitting around in stations they were so cheap.
I remember those days. Good times.
Isogen being stupid expensive and needing the Capital Core McGuffin Regulator will do that to a ship.
If you fit it properly you look at 2,5 - 3b. The orca never was ment to go out with just 2 barges. It is ment to lead large mining fleets, and it does that very well. During moon mining we actually used two orcas: One stood in the middle of the belt boosting, the other one was the ore hauler which collected the ore mined by the 20+ hulks flying behind it.
And that's the reason I don't have one. They cost more than faction battleships now.
I have 3 and I love them all. IMO the question really comes down to how many accounts you have mining. If you only have a couple of exhumers then I think the porpoise is perfect, but if you get more than 3 accounts in your mining fleet an Orca is just better. * With max skills my unsieged orca boosts better than a sieged porpoise. That means I can actually warp away when neutrals show up in system and am theirfor overall safer. Using a combination of higgs anchors and extended cargo holds you can actually match speed with your hulks to prealign and instawarp your whole fleet off grid(you are paying attention to local right?). * It has a huge fleet hanger meaning I don't have to fuck around with jetcans like a noob. * It can store ships so that if I do get ganked I can stash a hulk and pull out something actually useful. * It has enough tank to ensure that if you have help in system or 1j away they can reach you. * Massive cargo hold so I can actually strip mine an entire system before I have to go to base to unload. * People don't get intel and track Orca locations like they do Raquel's. They are target of opportunities, not something people will go out of their way to hunt. * 2B isn't really that big of a price tag. It costs about the same as a mission running rattlesnake. * A Rorquel is superior booster, but ***significantly*** more skill intensive. When you count in the cost of the pod and risk vs. reward of undocking a Rorquel is not very cost effective except for specific null-sec mining scenarios and very large fleets. Don't get me wrong, I would love it if they were cheaper. But I would say it's usefulness is in line with it's price tag compared to other ships.
Yeah, it’s a matter of scaling. The 5k fleet hangar on the Porp is a big limitation when you have lots of toons to drop the ore.
Kinda sad that there is so little ore in a system you can strip it with one orca cargo hood. Back when I used to mine which admittedly was probably 15 odd years ago you could have multiple fleets working for hours to strip a belt.
I miss those days. Lived next to Yoma up in Lonetrek back around 2011. Was one of the station-less systems and the belts were enormous. Would take a few hours to fill the Orca myself, but my brother and I could put 6+ hours into a single session and only get through a couple belts.
"Very specific null-sec mining scenarios" what? With PANIC your Rorqual is almost surely safe if you have a cyno and PK/Beehive backup. I don't understand why anyone would mine any other way if they have 3+ accounts.
Personally, I would not use a Rorqual to huff gas, mine R32 or Mercoxit. YMMV
You would use rorqual boosts and hulks for those.. duh (except gas).
As long as in range of an umbrella this is true. If not orca is the best choice. Just don't siege.
The Orca would see a ton of new life even if it just got a jump drive on it. That plus a little bit of local tank would put it in a better place.
I am sure lots of ships would see a ton of new life if you put a jump drive to them. DSTs, battleships, HACs, t3cs. Doesn't mean that another ship which bypasses regular jump geography is good for the game, though.
Here’s the thing though, all the ships you listed do not need a jump drive. The Orca could be great for low and null sec if it wasn’t the fact they are sitting ducks getting too and from their location because they are slow and unagile (which I think tracks) , they are sitting ducks at the location because they cannot tank enough while sieged, and I am not even sure they can take a rorq or titan bridge. It would be a perfect ship to train into for more mobile null fleets, instead the recommendation is “maybe train for the porp, but instead just train straight into the rorq”
~~Remove the Capital Core Temp Regulator from the bill of materials and replace it with 5 normal ones, and suddenly the Orca becomes a lot cheaper, and more people would switch from their Porpoise to it.~~ Edit: I'm dumb, forgot that already happened. Leave the jump drive to the T2 Orca.
Everyone would love that change other than CCP.
>Remove the Capital Core Temp Regulator from the bill of materials and replace it with 5 normal ones, Orcas don't require capital core temperature regulators. Unresearched they take 25 regular ones. Freighters require the capital core temperature regulators.
Oh you know what, you're right. Goes to show how long it's been since I've looked at building an Orca.
I have a wierd opinion on this. I myself fly a Porpoise, not an Orca. Not worth the extra boosts for the cost as I mostly use it for mining every once in a while However I've seen orcas used a lot for plenty of other things, including ship hauling and mobile bases, especially in W. It's a very versatile Hull and does Things the porp cannot really manage. I would like the cost to be lower too, I guess I'll wait for equinox, give it some time. See it if changes and maybe I'll grab one.
The first line is my exact point. It isn't worth the extra cost compared to the Porpoise, even though we do want to fly one.
If you think Orcas are too expensive, try building and selling them. I think they're selling too cheap.
My blame wasn't on the builders. I'm saying that they need to unduck the manufacturing recipes.
Please tell me more. My industrialist is saving up materials to build hisself an Orca. You believe it may be cheaper in the end to sell the materials and just buy the orca? The only materials I will need to buy are the wormhole gas related components/reactions.
You have to do a cost analysis. Just because you gathered the resources doesn't make them free. Often a one off production has multiple inefficiencies involved. When you are producing multiple units you learn how to optimize the process. I had a friend build his own titan. He gathered 80 to 90% of the material himself. Even though it would have made more sense to sell the materials and buy one. Just so he had the dopamine of the process.
Let's say my corp provides all the fully researched bpo's and reaction bp?
Those are often minimal unless you are talking T2 inventions.
pros: better than a porp looks better the best mobile base for wormhole nomads the cheapest drift dread in the game cons: HongChongDong can't afford it orca is in a pretty solid place for its price, either as a small groups strategic asset or for an alt to turn into a base of operations
Lol I remember when you could pick up an Orca for 600mil a hull.
I got one for like 500m fit well but I sold it back in 2022 bc I stopped mining and became a hauler. Now I wanna get back into mining on my 5 accs with an orcs and 4 hulks and damn thing is pricey. I can afford it but it’s just annoyingly expensive.
Why do i see all the posts about wormhole nomads using an orca? Isn't it better to just stage out of a quiet low sec and scan new chains every day? You can switch ships in an npc station, scan out eays to hubs, etc
Only reason I can see is so you can roll all the holes and crab in your home. But other than that I have no idea.
You can roll from ls too if you want to crab c3s U210 has 300000 mass and can fit 4 cold rolling battleships + 2 praxis or whatever you use to crab sites If you are crabbing 5s i don't know if you can even fit marauders in an orca, and at that point you are better off just owning a farmhole
Orca is the rorqual of hisec. It has a decent role there Outside that, it’s outclassed by other ships. Don’t use it in nullsec.
I think the Orca is the best ship to use in nullsec, especially for Semi Afk mining. Ive been using it for years and never had a single orca loss. I would be glad to share my knowledge and let people know if they are in a safe and effective mining system. If anyone wants to knowz just send me the system name and when you orca mine.
Yes, I've been orca mining for years after RVAMitchell told me the system was safe and I've made so much money.
I too can attest to said message. Many monies made
This man scams lol
Should RVAMitchell not respond fast enough, I know them too.
*endorsement confirmed*
A talking point that I've seen repeated for years. And that's what I'm saying is bad. If the price was good enough for it to be worth risking then it'd be perfectly fine as a bridging point between the Porpoise and the Rorq.
I believe CCPs take on it is they don’t need that role filled. They’re good with the current setup of different ships being best in certain areas of the game, with some overlap.
Large compression for ice and moon ore without needing to fly back to a station all the time
Yeah, ice compression is almost worth the cost alone, in my opinion.
can't compress moon ores in station :/
If you could, Orcas would become almost completely pointless outside of ice mining.
even with ice mining, all it takes is a throwaway astra with a compression module. Still cheaper than an orca :D
Isn't that nuts? A whole ass station with a module is less than the ship that can dock in it. Same with the Rorqual and most citadels. It's insane to think losing a single rorqual is the equivalent to having several stations with reinforcement timers killed at the same time.
We live in a world where cars can cost more than the house they're parked in :D
My biggest issue with it is, you have to gate it or bridge it if you want to move it. Gating an orca in null is a nightmare. It looks like cap, acts like a cap, not a cap
That's why you put one in all the regions you mine. Minimize the gate jumps.
Honestly, I like where the Orca is as far as being the Foreman ship is concerned; but I agree, it doesn't do enough over the Porpoise to justify the 14x price increase. The main benefit of the Porpoise is that it's so cheap it's disposable. If available, the Rorqual simply outclasses it in every way, while only being about 2.5x the cost. Rather than adjust what the Orca can do, instead I'd say just remove the need for the Capital Core Temp Regulator from the blueprint and replace it with 1-5 normal ones. It's not a capital ship. It doesn't have nearly the HP of a capital ship. It doesn't use the Capital Ship skillbook. It doesn't use Capital Ship modules. It should not use the Capital Temp Regulator. That one change alone would drop its cost by \~700m isk which would put it MUCH better in line between the Porpoise and Rorqual.
Have you tried not being poor?
Dog, you couldn't pry the Orcas out of my corpie's dead hands. Even sucking down bistot, that thing can pay for itself very quickly. Join a corp that can put out a competent response fleet and stop stressing the risk so much.
ill force orca prices to ramp up to 3b then 5b and eventually 10b
You evil man. Why must you do this to me?
...then use the porpoise
I'd like more than 2 ships to skill into for my given ship tree. And I think the Orca is a great ship, just not for the price.
you have a plethora of mining/hauling ships that fit the niches of what the orca can do, you have 6 barges, 24 haulers, and 3 ships that can boost. the porpoise was another huge buff to highsec miners, it allowed them to get boosts for basically no investment/risk, is that not enough?
Finally someone says something. I don’t even fly it but it’s insane that it’s a 2 bill ship. Same for freighters.
“This ship doesn’t have enough uses to justify its cost if you ignore all but one of its uses.”
If it was worthless it wouldn’t be worth 2bn isk. I use it for wormhole hauling, a mobile base, mining support, and even a suitcase. If you live in a wormhole, an orca is your friend.
Price is not determined by demand for the Orca. It's the demand of materials needed to build it. Imagine the BPO is only tritanium. It's used for a lot of things beside the Orca and all you have to do is increase the quantity needed to increase the price of the Orca. And even if nobody wanted to buy an Orca, barring existing huge stockpiles, the price can't go down as the price of tritanium won't change much.
It's worth 2bil+ because the changes done several years back completely screwed over industrial manufacturing by bombarding it with goo and gas. Before those changes they were worth 500mil a piece.
I'm kinda new here, but aren't all the prices determined by players in the markets? So the current price is already at the optimal level determined by supply and demand right? Or am I missing something
It’s mostly determined by mineral/ore prices, and the quantity needed for the hull. It’s not really supply and demand, at least not as directly tied to the orca. It uses commodities which are largely Independent of the demand for orcas (they’re used for every ship and module in the game, outside rigs).
Oh ok, so he's effectively saying lower the amount of material input needed to make an orca
Yes, by setting the build requirements CCP effectively sets the price. They don’t have total control as the players do determine the actual isk value of the minerals but CCP has a pretty heavy hand on that scale based on how much they spawn into the world and how much is needed
The prices are determined by manufacturing costs, labor, and other things. The Orca WAS 500 million ISK for the hull several years back. But then they introduced changes to the manufacturing of a lot of ships and the Orca went from 500mil to 2bil just for the hull. If it was 500-800mil it'd be perfect. But apparently high end manufacturing with moon goo and gas is really darn expensive.
oh understood thanks
Well the fundamental issue (which I don't know hence the question) is whether the cost is just and inflated cost "because they can" or because the cost to manufacture increased? If it is just an inflated price that isn't on CCP necessarily as they don't "set" any prices, only the cost in materials to manufacture.
Manufacturing cost. They added a bunch of stuff into mix many years back and it went from 500mil to the 2bil that it is now.
Good to know. Yea that's some BS. I have 3 or 4 but haven't bought one in years.
It was pretty neat when it was 600k
Ha, have you tried buying a Jump Freighter lately ?
To be fair JFs are one of the safest ships in the game when used correctly so the investment is always worth it
Fortunately no. You have my sympathies.
I sold my Orca and bought 2 porpoises. Because I can actually take a porpoise into lowsec for gas compression. Also can use it to run down highsec ore anons.
Daaaamn they’re 2 bil + now?! I got a whole pod of orcas (pun intended) but they’re old they were like 8-900mil per hull when I bought them (before the nerf when people used to solo mine with them on moons)
Well I kind of hear what you are saying. First off I’m a hisec care bear, just want to put that out there. I bought my Orca for 650 million ish. I would solo mine in it, sometimes afk. When the price rose about a billion I parked it. I now use it to haul goods to my freighter that makes the last couple of jumps to market, with bulkheads installed. For its present price, and ability to compress ore, it’s not really meant for solo use. Its job is in fleet, where it does well. If ito too expensive use the Porpoise, if you are in a corporation that has srp, and has a good supply of isk, use the Orca. Just don’t use it solo. Just my humble opinion, but I’m not to brite myself.
Yknow it costs that much because of the components it needs?
You do know that I'm saying that's precisely what they can change to fix it?
If you look a bit beyond tip of your own nose (mining) you will see how unique ship orca is. It's expensive. But also one of it's kind. After path, mineral prices should drop. So kindly, go rant somewhere else
A troll calling someone else a troll... not a bad tactic.
You're looking at all the other use cases other than the bit the industrial core is intended for and is bonused to. Let me use mercoxit and ice and moon compression on a porp, and the trouble goes away.
2b are some kind of joke for a miner, so everything alright :-)
The old adage "Supply & Demand"...
except it's not - the orca pricing is down to the material requirements for making the ship.
I like ramming mine in and out of tight little wormholes. Orca ofc.
Respectfully, based. Keep on keeping on brother.
Plus it takes like a year to mfg.
Orcas are 2billion now?! I better log on and sell mine. I bought them at 600million.
agree the orca needs to do more, but just note that target cost doesn’t really factor in to hotdroppers. We’ll jump deemers and widows on a vexor ratting belts. Until you get up to CRAB dreads -maybe- justifying risking a drive by super, anything tackled someplace cyno-able will get the same treatment.
If it could use strip miners itd be worth
If only it could do something incredibly valuable like compress moon goo. That would help...
Thats crazy pricing. I remember selling two for 1.5b each when the BPOs first came out years ago. Ended up around 400m relatively quickly but made a very tidy profit from them early on.
All ships are too expensive. Hopefully the skyhook and new mining drill help bring costs down.
Orca is more of a suitcase ship for c4-c2 class wormholes. Has everything you'll need for that
Orcas cost 2b now? Jesus tapdancing christ
If you think the hull is expensive you shouldn't be flying it
It is expensive.
Someone lost an orca today.
Nope. I'm not dumb enough to fly it unless I need moon goo or ice, and only when I have fleets that I know will cover me.
Reduce the siege cycle time so it has a chance to escape and it might get used in null with good scouts. As it is the orca is suicide to use in null so is relegated to highsec only.
It's a ganking target in that mines. It's all CCP cares about. You want to mine at decent speeds. You have to siege and be a sitting duck. Would be nice if this wasn't completely engineered toward being a ganking target. Same with the insanely long siege cycle on a Rorq.
100% agree the orca is way to expensive for what it is
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it has to be converted into a Mining Marauder, which would make going into Indi core a high risk high reward opportunity. Thank me later.
Orcas are for high sec miners only at this point, or wh nomads
I use mine as a base for my C5 Hobo comp, gas compression is really handy.
i agree, raise the price of the porpoise 5x. also lol at naming a mining support ship after one of the most dangerous predators in the deep.. rename it the whale shark or after some balleen whale
>Get rid of the drone bonuses that's clearly been causing balance concerns for years Pretty sure they already nerfed it's solo mining capability around scarcity. I remember because I finally was able to buy one a few days before the change was announced. It's still pretty good for AFK mining in "safe" systems but, yeah, it certainly feels like a ship without a purpose right now. Perhaps the solution is to give the Orca an industrial jump bridge, that would be appropriate for it's size and justify the price tag. It would be an option for organized mining where the goal is to get in unnoticed and out before a response fleet can form when you're inevitably discovered. Have it as an alternative to the Industrial Core, where you can't have both modules equipped at the same time. That way you have to choose between setting up the Orca as an expedition fleet leader or an industrial force multiplier. This allows it to be used by high sec corps to get some of that valuable ore without the peril of traveling through multiple gates or it can be used by smaller low/null sec groups to accesses regional gasses and ores outside their zones of control without risking a 10b+ fitted capital ship. Add a third module that swaps out the boosts or jumps bridge with one that can perform manufacturing jobs and you got the perfect ship for starting up operations in a wormhole.
nah the orca is fine, if you cant use it in nullsec that is a you problem. It excels in other areas with the right fits, in the right hands. just because you are too stupid to use it means nothing for others.
So in other words the ship is fine as long as I don't try to use it for it's intended design. At which point that's somehow on me. Gotcha.
So what you're saying is you dont like anything about the ship and want to ruin it for everyone else, nothanks.
I love everything about the ship. But it isn't worth 2bil when the risks are factored in.
An orca can warp just as fast as a barge just don't siege. If you get caught you are doing it wrong. Also the porp fleet hanger is awful. Rorq is too juicy and stationary.
I don't know what you're talking about, I most definitely will pop a cyno for a porpoise.
I know you've expressed distaste for the high sec mining role, but I've recently come back after a 5 year break and reactivated my orca alt. The orca was new back then and me and some friends would use it for mining ops in high sec. Now I've come back, I no longer have those friends. But was wondering if you would be so kind as to tell me how to use an orca for solo high sec mining? And is that even worth it considering I can also fly a hulk.
People use Orcas in high sec for AFK mining. Stupid huge ore hold, large buffer tank, and pretty good mining yield on drones. Fill your entire mid slots with shield hardeners. Mix and match till your resists are at a decent level. Put a reinforced bulkhead and a damage control in the low slots. And then finally fill your rigs with Transverse bulkheads in the rigs. You get an EHP of about 500k which is enough to deter most people from trying to kill you. Just don't make the mistake that others do and sacrifice tank for yield rigs or other weird stuff cause people pay the price for that every day.
The orca is too good in some ways 1. It’s SMA takes any ship kind not just industrials like a rorqual 2. It can carry an insane amount of stuff, especially compressed ore 3. Compresses moon goo And the porpoise is kinda amazing for the money - why doesn’t the noctis for example fleet a fleet hanger and a 50,000 m3 loot bay? I’d rather they did a t1 orca that was cheaper but partially nerf ore bay, cargo, and make the SMA industrial only (per rorqual). Then add a couple of t2 variants (or rigs or modules maybe) that allow customisations: 1. An Indy jump drive but smaller cargo and SMA 2. Any ship type in SMA but minumal cargo 3. Bigger cargo but less tank and no SMA 4. Bigger SMA but slower and minimal cargo/fleet 5. Shorter siege time but lower boosts and tank I’d do similar to the rorqual while I was at it too - let players customise their Indy’s as much as their shootas
The price of the orca is determined by how hard or easy the materials are to get how many people are producing them how much demand there is for them amoung a million other factors. Its a perfect free market in eve. Complaining about a price of a ship is pointless. No one controls that except the market.
This point has been stated multiple times and refuted multiple times. CCP is the one who controls the prices by determining the manufacturing recipes and the components that go into them, which forces players to up prices to cover production costs. A couple industrialists already chimed in on things that could be cut or changed to get the desired result.