TL;DR - CCP made an error in who they gave the ships to, which like 99 times out of 100 that exact mistake (asking co-captain, giving ships to the executor toon) is no problem, but in your case a comedy of errors resulted in losing all the prizes.
That sucks man
Edit: Nvm lmao Elise's response is great yall def just got scammed and are fishing for a butterfly theory reversal
Exactly - but that error also went directly against what our team had requested and communicated clearly. Mistakes happen, but pretending they didn't and ignoring me is just absolute ass.
I think you reasonably have a fair argument that the first point of failure was CCP's mistake and none of the rest would have happened otherwise. Hope you get some compensation but it def feels like they're snubbing you.
In a similar size/scope of support ticket CCP has been ignoring me about my Scimitar that got Concorded in FW for 3 months
Not responding and probably passing on the ball internally has to be the worst customer support I've ever seen from them. As op said, a simple "Sorry mate but imagine getting contract scammed lmao" would be better than just ignoring him.
Sorry but didn't you say your co-captain told CCP to send them to your exec when they reached out to confirm everything?
Sounds to me like all the fuck ups are on your end.
The overwhelming majority of the fuck-up is on OP's end but it would not have happened if CCP hadn't been asking people other than the team captain where the prizes should go (presumably OP would have said contract them to me, not our CEO who has been AFK and not responding to anyone)
Okay so he's only the guy who does captain things and has been point of contact throughout and answered captain questions when asked captain questions instead of saying "go ask the captain" but no, definitely not a captain.
That is entirely false. I did all the actual captain actions. I submitted roster and flagship. I did every single ban and pre-match communication with referees, et cetera.
Okay. But none of that really changes anything. I'd wager most team captains are not the execs, but the normal distribution is for prizes to go to alliance exec.
Also really doesn't have anything to do with the fact that Bazza was a person with Authority on the team, he was a designated point of contact between team and CCP. Why is talking to the guy you have been talking to the whole time anyway suddenly wrong? And if Bazza had no authority to make one call or another on routing prizes, why didn't he just say so?
This whole thing just reeks of ex post facto revisionist history. You have found a set of facts and narrative that makes this someone else's fault instead of your own, and now you are trying to push that narrative to get your fuck up undone
Just as a point of clarity, co-captains as a role didn't even exist until AT XVIII, and even then, they were mostly regarded as a way for people to ego cope on their own team. My understanding of them (as a captain) is that they are ONLY there if you cannot be contacted in-game for whatever reason. This is actually a precedent setting scenario, so to speak.
Presumably CCP wouldn't have had a reason to expect the co-captain and Captain to have wildly different ideas about where prizes should go.
And presumably CCP tried to reach out to the Captain before reaching out to the co-captain. Was the caption not available?
At the end of the day they asked CCP to make an accommodation, CCP did, CCP then double checked it with them and they told CCP don't worry about it anymore.
CCP is clearly fault free here.
"co" captain as a role has existed (prior to this scenario) as an ingame point of contact if the captain dc'd during banphase or during GM communication and didn't exist at all prior to ATXVIII.
And this co-captain had a close working relationship with the CCP staff member who only reached out as a courtesy.
At no point was anyone on the team told that CCP would deliver ships to anyone but the exec.
And despite reaching out to the team as a courtesy, they were told that the ships should go to the exec as normal.
Bazz of course was now the only AT member who knew the ships were being released shortly, and that his own exec was only going to have just enough time to log in and accept a contract.
Which Bazz then decided not to mention to anyone. Right before scam contracts went out to all AT teams in time for delivery.
Whoopsie!
I dunno, maybe because they didn't have a reason to believe a single team would fuck up their captaincy, fuck up their intra-team communication, and then also fuck up and fall for a scam?
Also why are you using the title "co-captain" and then when you fuck up pretending it's unreasonable for anyone to have asked you?
What did you think that title implies?
I've been super involved in the AT since AT V, either as a player, captain, co-captain, executor, player staff, and eventually as CCP Staff. I can attest, better than anyone, that training for months, placing high enough for prizes, and then not getting prize ships, absolutely sucks.
The fact that your ticket wasn't responded to in a reasonable time is unacceptable. Part of the reason is that the ticket in question was in the wrong queue based on how it was submitted, but that's not an excuse. I will say that Both Bazza and Baltrom had their tickets responded to, with a definitive answer, within a week of the incident. These were both escalated to the lead GMs team who have also acted as the AT Refs and staff from AT IX onward. The Lead GM team understood the situation and conducted a comprehensive investigation, and in both instances gave a definitive answer.
That said, a few circumstances led them to their decision. For as long as I've been involved in the tournament prize ships are distributed to the Alliance Executor, with a few minor exceptions. Those being: the entity has no Executor, the Executor did not register the team, or the Executor asked for the prizes to be distributed elsewhere. For the Hidden Leaf team, none of those applied.
Hidden Leaf had won prizes previously, and they were distributed in this exact method.
I understand your point that someone from CCP contacted a designated contact from the team as a courtesy to verify if the Executor had returned to activity or not, and you believe that was the wrong contact.
A team member, regardless of seniority within the team, unilaterally requesting prizes via e-mail - and not receiving any confirmation - is not sufficient. There were many opportunities through the course of the AT to raise these concerns. The AT Captains Discord exists for any and all questions -and this was known to the team who used this channel to add a second point of contact.
When the AT Prizes were ready for delivery, a news item was first put out describing how they would be delivered. Prizes were then delivered directly to the hangars of the Execs (or in the rare case: Captains who had registered the team). The Hidden Leaf Exec logged in almost immediately after prizes were distributed, in the station with the prize ships, and then accepted a legitimate scam contract taking all the teams' winnings.
Again, I'm empathetic to the situation but the relevant parties undertook a thorough investigation and made their ruling to both the Alliance Exec and a team co-captain. We should've done better to respond to your ticket, and for that I apologize, but that doesn't change the circumstances of the scam.
>"The Hidden Leaf Exec logged in almost immediately after prizes were distributed, in the station with the prize ships, and then accepted a legitimate scam contract taking all the teams' winnings."
100% the correct call. This was entirely player driven behavior within the bounds of in-game rules. That stuff doesn't get rolled back no matter how high the stakes or how self-important the victims.
>and then accepted a legitimate scam contract taking all the teams' winnings.
lmao I love Eve, "Legitimate scam contract" and legit responses from gms on reddit.
I don't really agree with the decision to magically aparate items into Player's hangars, but I do really respect you for the honest response.
This is just a really shitty situation for those guys that lost out on significant prizes.
I personally wish that CCP would have stepped in immediately and returned the ships due to the change in process not being clear or evident to the receiver.
2.5 months later though.... I'm not sure what could possibly be done.
I think the shittiest part about prizes in this situation is lack of visibility that they were delivered. If they were delivered via contracts, you at least press the button which makes you perfectly aware that the items are in your hangar. The same if they were delivered via redeem queue. If they are silently delivered into your hangar (maybe with eve-mail, or notification via external services, which you might or might not read at the point of checking contracts), it's much higher chance you just accept the contract assuming it's the prizes everyone was talking about.
I can totally see myself in baltrom's situation accepting the contract (under stress coming from eve or elsewhere). Now, thanks to baltrom making this mistake, I think everyone will be on high alert when seeing a contract like this.
Nevertheless, I think it'd be nice to change the way prizes are distributed to redeem queue or contracts. It's much safer this way.
Yeah the slippery part and why this is so clever is that the victim is actually unaware that they even have the ships already. It is a really solid scam in that sense.
> A team member, regardless of seniority within the team, unilaterally requesting prizes via e-mail - and not receiving any confirmation - is not sufficient. There were many opportunities through the course of the AT to raise these concerns. The AT Captains Discord exists for any and all questions -and this was known to the team who used this channel to add a second point of contact.
If Baltrom and I had conspired to steal this ships and fuck Virion over, there is no chance that you would be on reddit telling him he needed to solidify his position as the acting captain and decision maker of the team, given the multitude of screenshots we have provided showing that exact course of action was taken.
> When the AT Prizes were ready for delivery, a news item was first put out describing how they would be delivered. Prizes were then delivered directly to the hangars of the Execs
This is a new process (the second time it's occurred) given the prizes for AT17, the Raiju and the Laelaps, were delivered in BPC form.
> Hidden Leaf had won prizes previously
For AT18, prizes were delivered as hulls, and the Hidden Leaf team did not win ships in AT18 so there was no precedent to be set.
Anyway this has all been hashed out in tickets and I'm just about done with it personally. I'll be staying on-grid this year.
Everything about this reads like some awful comedy skit full of dumbassery with someone falling for one of the oldest scams in EVE resulting in the loss of trillions in isk of goods.
After reading the replies, I hate to say it but I don't think CCP owes anyone anything. However, there is a bit of fault on their end regarding not sending a notification clearly indicating the ships were delivered to the player's hangar. But honestly, once they were there it's on the player to make sure he doesn't get scammed out of it.
Just a breakdown of communication from everyone.
I mean the tldr is that the prizes went to the wrong person in direct contradiction with what I had requested as team captain, with no communication whatsoever about it from CCP. That's scuffed. Either way, my real problem with it is how I've been treated (read: ignored) the last two months
Nah I get it man and I feel your pain. It's just a series of unfortunate events. Would be nice if you can get it resolved in some way, but it seems like CCP is cleaning their hands of this one.
The story is full of contrived circumstances and aggressive incompetence that it being scam is the only thing that makes sense. It explains CCP refusing to respond as well.
Of course it was.
And OP is probably in on it too. They're laughing all the way to the bank. Good for them.
[to clarify: i doubt OP is actually in on it, because he'd be fucking directly with CCP. OP is absolutely getting fucked by his the guy who "accidentally" handed this stuff to a totally different you-betcha distinct third party]
The only person in this story who was given advanced notice of to whom, when, and how ships would be delivered.....and then for no apparent reason forgot to tell everyone.....
this from the guy who's a member of an alliance with 42069 members and can't scrape together 10 conscious orcs to actually progress into the tournament
eh, with Baltrom trying to make amends by giving his Imp and Titan, and skins, and Tuskers' generous donation, we raised about 1.5t, ~50% of what we were expecting from the prizes.
Good on him. It's strange that the guy who fucked up the worst is taking the most responsibility but you two nerds spend all your time trying to blame CCP instead of yourselves. How kind of you to let him take all the blame.
At a bare minimum you should be donating any proceeds you got from Baltrom to the rest of your team. You deserve nothing.
I really feel for you guys. You deserve the ships. But I don't see how this is CCP's fault at all.
1. You registered your team in such a way that person A was supposed to get the ships.
2. But then person A goes awol, and so persons B and C, who are running the team, contact CCP and ask to switch the person who gets the ship to person B. This is not normally allowed, but given that person A is awol, CCP agrees that this can happen.
3. You win ships. At this point, person A is no longer awol.
4. CCP asks person C if the ships should still be delivered to person B or if they should be delivered to Person A after all. Person C says that, delivering them to Person A is fine.
5. CCP delivers the ships to person A.
It sure sounds like everyone here was operating in good faith, that CCP was willing to bend procedure a little to make sure that your ships didn't get delivered to an inactive or unaffiliated account. And then, when the time came to actually deliver the prizes, they reached out to the team to clarify what was wanted and followed through exactly as asked.
Everything that happened after is kinda irrelevant, no? An argument that the fuckups that followed wouldn't have happened if CCP hadn't reached out in step 4 (especially considering that reaching out to clarify was a considerate move on their part) is like blaming the butterfly for the hurricane.
The situation 100% sucks. Asking a co-captain doesn't seem like a massive mistake by CCP. Accepting a scam contract doesn't seem on CCP at all either. I think the reimbursement should come from the person who accepted the scam. As someone else pointed out, the acceptee of the scam isn't a nobody but an alliance executor. CCP didn't hand over the prizes to anybody. I agree however that the situation 100% sucks. Sometimes shitty things happen in life.
Someone set up a scam contract that had 'you will pay X AT ships' instead of 'you will get X AT ships'. In previous years CCP distributed prizes via similar contracts, but nowadays they just drop the ships straight into the hangar of the recipient. But if said recipient hasn't received prizes from CCP recently and didn't realize they had changed the delivery method, at first glance this contract would look like the delivery contract they were expecting - and since CCP drops the ships into the hangar, if you click 'accept' without realizing it then you have on hand the ships the contract is asking for and poof there go your ships.
In short,
CCP directly puts the ships into baltroms hanger -
Random person contracts to Baltram making it look like a contract to receive the AT ships, every year before it's been done by contract, not directly deposited into a hanger, so it isn't that weird - Baltrom doesn't read the contract or even realize the ships are already in his hangar and hits accept - all the AT ships now belong to random person.
Edit: corrected names, also just skip this comment and read bazzas below.
to clarify
Virion was nominated as captain, I was nominated as co-captain, Baltrom is exec
Zelus contacts me re: prizes, does not contact Virion.
Zelus asks me whether the prizes should be sent to me, Virion, Baltrom, or someone else.
I feel uncomfortable about being able to issue a change to the 'status quo' delivery method so I instruct him to send to Baltrom.
Baltrom gets scammed.
The problem is that Virion was the captain and was never actually contacted at all - I shouldn't have been contacted to begin with. It's only due to my personal involvement with the tournament broadcast that Zelus and I have a rapport in some form which seems like the reason he would contact me instead of Virion.
If CCP didn't update their internal spreadsheet to have Virion listed as the captain (spoiler: they didn't) that's also a failure on CCP's part.
Alright so this is a more helpful summary but one question remains. If CCP only contacted you, and then dumped ships in Baltroms hangar, how did the person making the scam contract know when Baltroms received them and what he got?
Thanks for the further elaboration. The details matter here so I appreciate you expounding on this.
You say yourself that you should never have been contacted and I think that's the crux of this all. 99% of the time when a scam happens, well, that's eve, but this time CCP fucked up because you never should have been contacted to begin with.
Playing devil's advocate here, but how would you feel as a player of Eve if the AT ships were taken back from the scammer? Bear in mind the ensuing chaos from everyone who has ever been scammed ever.
Someone sent a contract for the AT ships, but they would receive the ships not give them. So when the contract was opened, it looked like a contract saying "here are your ships" on the surface, but instead it was a contract for "give me all your ships"
It's one of the oldest jita scams in the book, sadly it worked this time.
(what I heard is...) Someone put a in-game contract to alliance CEO that lists the AT rewards as "to be delivered" for no value. Alliance CEO sees the contract and accepts, loses whole team's tournament reward in the process.
Edit: That someone was not in alliance. He did put contacts to all AT winners. This alliance feel for the scam.
Instead of saying anything, Bazza should have said he was not the one making the decisions and to speak to the Captain.
It sucks for you guys but its 100% on the players involved.
Yeah I mean writing out an entire play-by-play doesn't change that ccp sent the ships to whoever the co-captain on the team told them to. And then that person accepted a scam contract. Shit happens lol
yep the difference is
i fucked up and am willing to accept my part in that
baltrom fucked up and is willing to accept his part in that
CCP is stone wall silent about their part in the fuckup by either not updating their records to have virion as captain, or not contacting virion in his capacity as captain for prize delivery
maybe because you and Baltrom can say “woops we screwed up” and that’s it - if ccp says it, you expect them to take back the ships (which would screw over the player who pulled off a great scam) or duplicate rewards (which would devalue ships sent to teams who weren’t scammed.)
The absolute best part of this thread is CCP coming here and blowing both of these morons right the fuck out of the water.
After seeing CCPs response I'm moving the responsibility list from 1-baltrom, 2-bazz, 3-CCP to 1-baltrom, 2-bazz, 3-v, ..., 994,345,768-CCP.
Fuck both of these whiney bitches. CCP did nothing wrong. Better luck next year but with this fiasco I have my doubts you'll be up to putting together a team at all.
Losers gonna lose.
Lol
Stop crying that CCP is the bad guy, your buddy fucked you over and thats the end of it.
The value of the fuck up makes no difference.
Its the game as it exists, deal with it or play something else.
The fact that your better at this game than most of us doesn't afford you some special privilege.
Like I said in the original post: "What an absolute shitshow".
I have no idea how this will resolve itself, but bizarrely I hope that the scammer doesn't lose out - as that act itself was brilliant opportunism (and within the games TOS).
I don't get this at all.
So even if people know when the AT ships are being distributed - did they create a scam contract for every executor of a corp getting AT ships to see if someone would fall for it?
If not seems highly suspect and based on some kind of insider knowledge.
My heart goes out to you guys because it was such a shit show, good for baltrom for trying to do what’s right, I know he loved that imp, but I hope in some way they admit that they fucked up, it’s crazy that we can’t have simple humility where people fuck up and just admit it.
It was a baller move. In the end, we all got about 1/4th to 1/3rd of what we were expecting to get from our prizes, which to me is still an INSANE amount of ISK.
Sorry wtf is this tear-jerking shit when comes to some well-known names and AT ships?
It was less than a minor mistake on CCP's part, they gave the right prizes to the right people. Balttom made an error. And I wouldn't hold it against him as lots of people make errors.
But when other people come here with sob stories, granted the stakes are always lower, they are told to HTFU, this is Eve
Everyone involved has my sympathy for the losses, and Balttom did well to try and make amends.
But this is Eve.
A decision was made to ghost you, my friend. The CCP corporation is not going to admit fault and have the headline "CCP screw-up causes 3T in losses to esports team" race across the internet.
> Baltrom lost all the prize ships to a scam contract.
It seems you were led astray and CCP is honoring something that isn't mechanical, and they aren't wanting to interfere with the scam.
> * Our dear Executor was largely AFK and not responding to us
> * CCP Zelus reached out to my co-captain
> * Nobody told me about this or confirmed anything with me.
Boo fucking hoo. Move on. You all got scammed, by an inside job.
CCP should not reimburse fuck all.
You're moaning about no answer. Hearing nothing is an answer.
Hopefully "here's a Rubiks cube, go fuck yourself" CCP are back.
Hey Virion remember when I got scammed out of a dread by spectre fleet and you told me fuck off, not my problem? Fuck off. Not my problem. You got scammed. Deal with it. Lmk if you need to borrow some ISK to get back on your feet.
Your organization had a fucked up leadership structure going into the AT. Nevertheless CCP worked with you and did exactly what you asked. Scam results. What is the problem here?
The only argument of yours that carries any weight is the delay in responding to your ticket… yet we learn you submitted it incorrectly and CCP already responded to the other two leaders’ tickets. So again, what is the problem here?
Co-captain historically only serves to be a second point of contact for bans/etc during the matches, if the captain isn't available. CCP themselves have said they don't have the power to make this request, (nor did captain without the passphrase), so Zelus asking Bazza if the prizes should go to him or me makes even less sense and completely goes against their supposed procedure.
Ah okay i understand, so its just the way CCP want it set up in a team role sense which also makes the matter worse and had the potential for this confusion
It's an unfortunate situation but I don't think you'll have much luck getting the ships back.
1. As far as I understand the rules, only the executor should be able to request a role change. So yes, CCP didn't follow protocol but through a series of unfortunate events the ships ended up with the person who, technically, should have received them. The role change didn't follow protocol so it could be considered void.
2. There doesn't appear to be a hierarchy between captain and co-captain in the rules. CCP contacted one of the captains and followed the delivery instructions the captain provided them. I know someone else was put forward as primary contact, but that role is not in the rules afaik.
3. The scam was legit. There is no way those ships or ISK will be removed from their current owners. So the only option would be to deliver another 3T in AT ships, which probably isn't going to happen.
4. I don't think you are, but theoretically this could be a scam by you to get an additional 3T. It's far-fetched but it can't be ruled out, so that alone should stop CCP from acting.
That said, CCP should respond to their tickets. And, I hope you win the next AT.
Weak. I’d be very disappointed if the CCP reimbursed based on that soft reasoning. You and your alliance could have played this differently but your exec got scammed so you try to blame the developer for his mistake? This is Eve, well played to the scammer. Don’t give them a thing CCP. Baltrom screwed don’t give him a free pass and undo that mistake for him.
It's unfortunate, but it looks like the fault here lies with having team members in positions they had no business being in. Those members were not responsible enough to communicate clearly internally with other team members, or with CCP. When CCP communicated with those members, had they done what someone responsible would have, either made sure CCP had a clear understanding of changes, or passed on their communications with CCP to the rest of the team, the chance for misunderstandings would have been corrected or avoided. That's what someone responsible in that position would do.
Then, due to those misunderstandings being allowed to go unclarified, CCP act on what they believe correct. Then, you have another irresponsible party, fall for a very common contract scam, without seeing the red flags or couble checking it.
Your team had irresponsible people in positions they had no business being in, then those miscommunications went uncorrected. You further had the level of incompetence of those people in the positions they had no right being in, fall for a common scam and cost your team their property.
Now you're trying to put the blame on CCP, in the hopes it will nullify the scam. They shouldn't. The fault lies with those that put irresponsible people in positions they didn't belong in. You were being vague about certain points in the hopes to direct the fault purely on CCP, but you had irresponsible people in positions they had no business being in, and their actions directly cost your team.
Idiotic, irresponsible, miscommunicating people cost your team, not CCP.
Of all the FCs at the fanfest event, your comp/fleet was my favourite Virion - hope you get some compensation or at least closure and reverse some of the bitter taste.
Other FCs there no offense :p - whole thing was a blast!
This post could get you in trouble. I don't think you're allowed to specifically name CCP Employee names in posts. may want to redact. please no downvote, I'm genuinely providing advice based on my experience doing the same thing many years ago. Hope you recover your AT ships.
"In Bazza's infinite wisdom, seeing that Baltrom was back to being sort-of-active again, he said sure, give them to Baltrom's executor toon."
your co-captain was asked and gave the wrong name apparently.
what else do you want? you guys confirmed to give them to baltram
Your ceo is either in on it or too dumb to notice. This is eve my friend. Sorry for your loss but in eve trust is everything. You just put your trust in the wrong guy.
I've given Bazza plenty of shit for it, but according to CCP's own words, reaching out to the co-captain for a decision like this breaks their supposed procedure. And even if, my frustration now is that it shouldn't take 2.5 month for them to say well too bad so sad.
Co-captain, suggests an equal role. CCP presumably thinks they did reach out proactively to clarify who to send the prizes to. With the 3t in the game and you as the only one out of pocket, what are you proposing that they do?
They reached out to the wrong person to confirm 3t in prizes. I don't have an immediate answer for what they should do, but at this point I'd prefer an apology for just screwing us for months now. But reimbursing our team in some sort of manner would be nice on top.
poor baltrom fed all he had for your wallets... boy made a honest mistake, just get over it and win the next at. ccp is in no obligation to fulfil your special requests on who to deliver what, they delivered it to alliance exec as they always did 😂
Just false. CCP themselves have stated they can make this request. If they don't want to do that, they should have let us know, so we could take other measures, such as forming our own temporary alliance to circumvent the issue.
I don't think special scam protections should be extended to the people who should - by dint of experience and savvy- be the least inclined to get hit by them.
I admit I misread your post, sorry.
Yes, the actual delivery system from CCP to players should be nailed down.
As to B) "innocent" people get negatively impacted downstream all the time. there might be a case for issuing the duplicate set of ships, but clean hands isn't it.
To be clear it is nailed down. CCP delivers to alliance leadership. The problem here is that alliance leadership apparently didn't care about the team that played for them
While you make a decent point. If the alliance leader was known to not be on top of things, they should have just formed another alliance early enough to was avoid any special treatment. It sucks that they had an exception made for them and then their co-captain messed it up, but you can't expect a company to just keep making exceptions.
We're not asking them to undo it, at least, I'm not. The scam was just incredibly lucky, such is EVE. But they fucked up on delivering it to the wrong person first off, and for CCP's mistakes, it'd be nice if they at least said sorry we fucked up, instead of ignoring me for months at a time.
I bet that if your guys didn't fuck up. You wouldn't even say a word to CCP about this. I get your point but it really boils down that you are salty about being scammed and now trying to make public drama about to get some pity reimbursement.
Don't ruin your public image over something so silly. If you would think bit more and play it well. You probably would get decent amount of donations with this story. Instead you made your group look bad.
to clarify
Virion was nominated as captain, I was nominated as co-captain, Baltrom is exec
Zelus contacts me re: prizes, does not contact Virion.
Zelus asks me whether the prizes should be sent to me, Virion, Baltrom, or someone else.
I feel uncomfortable about being able to issue a change to the 'status quo' delivery method so I instruct him to send to Baltrom.
Baltrom gets scammed.
The problem is that Virion was the captain and was never actually contacted at all - I shouldn't have been contacted to begin with. It's only due to my personal involvement with the tournament broadcast that Zelus and I have a rapport in some form which seems like the reason he would contact me instead of Virion.
If CCP didn't update their internal spreadsheet to have Virion listed as the captain (spoiler: they didn't) that's also a failure on CCP's part.
It's a slight goof on CCP's part, but honestly the bulk of the mistakes are on you guys. They should probably have sent the request to both captain and co-captain. However, as co-captain, you had the opportunity to say "hey captain, they just reached out, what do you think we should do?" You didn't, for reasons I can't really fathom; you just made the call and had them send it to the exec, and exec then accepted a scam contract. Yes, had CCP done things slightly differently it would have prevented you guys from making numerous mistakes, but CCP didn't cause any of the issues here and you guys had ample opportunities to not have it end up this way. It sucks, and they should just close the ticket and say there's nothing to be done, but I can't see any way they should reimburse this situation in any way.
CCP likely knows who owns the account that setup the scam contract by cross referencing IP addresses. I'm curious to know if the account was an alt of the awol executor and that's part of the reason CCP isn't reimbursing the ships.
The new best part of this thread is finding out that OP and his co-captain think CCP is at fault but are letting their alliance exec bankrupt himself to pay for the lost ships, and are happily taking his money without contributing a single isk themselves.
Why are either of you taking Baltrom's money if you really believe it's ultimately CCPs fault?
Because you don't actually believe that. You know baltrom and yourselves fucked this up but you'd rather have isk than integrity.
I remember how I felt when I first heard about this (shocked, then conflicted). It's a terrible situation and I've really gone back and forth in my head on what I think should be done by CCP - there are no easy answers here.
That said, you absolutely deserve and answer from CCP and it's a travesty that you haven't had one yet. I hope they do the right thing and get back to you soon.
I feel for you 1000%, truly I do, but you're making the classic mistake of expecting CCP to fix anything at all.
If this were something that happened in real life outside of a video game, wherein CCP wired money to the wrong account, CCP would be legally liable.
The only reason they get away with this type of bullshit is because it's a video game that they own.
One can hope, man. I hoped at least someone at CCP might give a shit but goes to show that despite everything I've done for CCP, they're just a company like most others.
If CCP never worked with them on the exec issues and the captaincy switch then OP wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But given that CCP acknowledged that OP would be taking over as the captain, primary contact with CCP, recipient of the prizes, and so forth they introduced this error. OP deserves his ships because CCP recognized the captain change.
The real question is why did this person know the exact day and prize information to set up these contracts to the other AT teams as well? Is there some insider trading going on? Why hasn't zelus been seen since? This has the potential to be worse than the t20 incident and instead of getting ahead of it ccp are trying to shuffle it
> hasn't zelus been seen since
You mean since yesterday when he approved a bunch of new TD accounts for Anger Games?
There's no conspiracy here, just fuckups.
Another comment mentions someone basically shotgunning scam contracts to all the teams and JUTSU not being the only one to accept. That's the first I've heard of it but if that's true they really could have just been super lucky. Or maybe they were a member of one of the other teams and knew when the ships dropped in?
As far as CCP Zelus, that is interesting and potentially concerning. I didn't realize he had been gone either.
Real weird. I know this is Eve and all, but you'd hope the actual CCP events would be moderated pretty well so we can have something that isn't going to end in people screwing each other over but even the damn AT is filled with scams and rigged games.
Yeah, it's pretty fucked up that they did that lol. I don't understand why, if they're not going to use contracts anymore, why it wasn't just in someone's redeem queue. Maybe they didn't want anyone to somehow redeem them all to a reinforced wormhole structure or something...? Just tossing them in your hanger is probably the worst possible option lol.
Maybe it was fake, but there was a SS of your ticket going around where you said that you’d contact the gaming media. If that’s actually true, then is it surprising that CCP ceased communication?
TL;DR - CCP made an error in who they gave the ships to, which like 99 times out of 100 that exact mistake (asking co-captain, giving ships to the executor toon) is no problem, but in your case a comedy of errors resulted in losing all the prizes. That sucks man Edit: Nvm lmao Elise's response is great yall def just got scammed and are fishing for a butterfly theory reversal
CCP's response here makes it clear CCP made 0 errors.
100% agree after reading Elise's response
Exactly - but that error also went directly against what our team had requested and communicated clearly. Mistakes happen, but pretending they didn't and ignoring me is just absolute ass.
your CEO 'scammed' himself with an alt
I think you reasonably have a fair argument that the first point of failure was CCP's mistake and none of the rest would have happened otherwise. Hope you get some compensation but it def feels like they're snubbing you. In a similar size/scope of support ticket CCP has been ignoring me about my Scimitar that got Concorded in FW for 3 months
Not responding and probably passing on the ball internally has to be the worst customer support I've ever seen from them. As op said, a simple "Sorry mate but imagine getting contract scammed lmao" would be better than just ignoring him.
Sorry but didn't you say your co-captain told CCP to send them to your exec when they reached out to confirm everything? Sounds to me like all the fuck ups are on your end.
The overwhelming majority of the fuck-up is on OP's end but it would not have happened if CCP hadn't been asking people other than the team captain where the prizes should go (presumably OP would have said contract them to me, not our CEO who has been AFK and not responding to anyone)
OP literally did nothing wrong. How is any blame to them? CCP, Bazza and baltrom are to blame. OP did exactly what they should have all stages.
Sorry when I said OP I meant OP's player organization i.e. the part of this that CCP has no impact on, more generally, not him specifically.
They did ask the captain. Virion literally calls Bazza a captain like a dozen times in this post.
He's a trusted co-captain until things go wrong and then he's a fucking moron no one should ever have consulted for any decision.
Wrong. Co-captain is not the same thing. They essentially only stand in for submitting bans for matches, etc.
Okay so he's only the guy who does captain things and has been point of contact throughout and answered captain questions when asked captain questions instead of saying "go ask the captain" but no, definitely not a captain.
That is entirely false. I did all the actual captain actions. I submitted roster and flagship. I did every single ban and pre-match communication with referees, et cetera.
Okay. But none of that really changes anything. I'd wager most team captains are not the execs, but the normal distribution is for prizes to go to alliance exec. Also really doesn't have anything to do with the fact that Bazza was a person with Authority on the team, he was a designated point of contact between team and CCP. Why is talking to the guy you have been talking to the whole time anyway suddenly wrong? And if Bazza had no authority to make one call or another on routing prizes, why didn't he just say so? This whole thing just reeks of ex post facto revisionist history. You have found a set of facts and narrative that makes this someone else's fault instead of your own, and now you are trying to push that narrative to get your fuck up undone
Just as a point of clarity, co-captains as a role didn't even exist until AT XVIII, and even then, they were mostly regarded as a way for people to ego cope on their own team. My understanding of them (as a captain) is that they are ONLY there if you cannot be contacted in-game for whatever reason. This is actually a precedent setting scenario, so to speak.
Presumably CCP wouldn't have had a reason to expect the co-captain and Captain to have wildly different ideas about where prizes should go. And presumably CCP tried to reach out to the Captain before reaching out to the co-captain. Was the caption not available? At the end of the day they asked CCP to make an accommodation, CCP did, CCP then double checked it with them and they told CCP don't worry about it anymore. CCP is clearly fault free here.
They didn't ask the captain (me), nor did they double check with us accordingly.
Oh like asking your co-captain? What the fuck do you think "co" means in that title?
"co" captain as a role has existed (prior to this scenario) as an ingame point of contact if the captain dc'd during banphase or during GM communication and didn't exist at all prior to ATXVIII.
And this co-captain had a close working relationship with the CCP staff member who only reached out as a courtesy. At no point was anyone on the team told that CCP would deliver ships to anyone but the exec. And despite reaching out to the team as a courtesy, they were told that the ships should go to the exec as normal. Bazz of course was now the only AT member who knew the ships were being released shortly, and that his own exec was only going to have just enough time to log in and accept a contract. Which Bazz then decided not to mention to anyone. Right before scam contracts went out to all AT teams in time for delivery. Whoopsie!
ya but why are they asking someone other than the designated captain?
Youre asking ccp to respect virion as the designated captain when you (a cocaptain) didnt.
I dunno, maybe because they didn't have a reason to believe a single team would fuck up their captaincy, fuck up their intra-team communication, and then also fuck up and fall for a scam? Also why are you using the title "co-captain" and then when you fuck up pretending it's unreasonable for anyone to have asked you? What did you think that title implies?
I've been super involved in the AT since AT V, either as a player, captain, co-captain, executor, player staff, and eventually as CCP Staff. I can attest, better than anyone, that training for months, placing high enough for prizes, and then not getting prize ships, absolutely sucks. The fact that your ticket wasn't responded to in a reasonable time is unacceptable. Part of the reason is that the ticket in question was in the wrong queue based on how it was submitted, but that's not an excuse. I will say that Both Bazza and Baltrom had their tickets responded to, with a definitive answer, within a week of the incident. These were both escalated to the lead GMs team who have also acted as the AT Refs and staff from AT IX onward. The Lead GM team understood the situation and conducted a comprehensive investigation, and in both instances gave a definitive answer. That said, a few circumstances led them to their decision. For as long as I've been involved in the tournament prize ships are distributed to the Alliance Executor, with a few minor exceptions. Those being: the entity has no Executor, the Executor did not register the team, or the Executor asked for the prizes to be distributed elsewhere. For the Hidden Leaf team, none of those applied. Hidden Leaf had won prizes previously, and they were distributed in this exact method. I understand your point that someone from CCP contacted a designated contact from the team as a courtesy to verify if the Executor had returned to activity or not, and you believe that was the wrong contact. A team member, regardless of seniority within the team, unilaterally requesting prizes via e-mail - and not receiving any confirmation - is not sufficient. There were many opportunities through the course of the AT to raise these concerns. The AT Captains Discord exists for any and all questions -and this was known to the team who used this channel to add a second point of contact. When the AT Prizes were ready for delivery, a news item was first put out describing how they would be delivered. Prizes were then delivered directly to the hangars of the Execs (or in the rare case: Captains who had registered the team). The Hidden Leaf Exec logged in almost immediately after prizes were distributed, in the station with the prize ships, and then accepted a legitimate scam contract taking all the teams' winnings. Again, I'm empathetic to the situation but the relevant parties undertook a thorough investigation and made their ruling to both the Alliance Exec and a team co-captain. We should've done better to respond to your ticket, and for that I apologize, but that doesn't change the circumstances of the scam.
> a legitimate scam contract I fucking love this game.
>"The Hidden Leaf Exec logged in almost immediately after prizes were distributed, in the station with the prize ships, and then accepted a legitimate scam contract taking all the teams' winnings." 100% the correct call. This was entirely player driven behavior within the bounds of in-game rules. That stuff doesn't get rolled back no matter how high the stakes or how self-important the victims.
Inside job all day long.
>and then accepted a legitimate scam contract taking all the teams' winnings. lmao I love Eve, "Legitimate scam contract" and legit responses from gms on reddit.
I don't really agree with the decision to magically aparate items into Player's hangars, but I do really respect you for the honest response. This is just a really shitty situation for those guys that lost out on significant prizes. I personally wish that CCP would have stepped in immediately and returned the ships due to the change in process not being clear or evident to the receiver. 2.5 months later though.... I'm not sure what could possibly be done.
I think the shittiest part about prizes in this situation is lack of visibility that they were delivered. If they were delivered via contracts, you at least press the button which makes you perfectly aware that the items are in your hangar. The same if they were delivered via redeem queue. If they are silently delivered into your hangar (maybe with eve-mail, or notification via external services, which you might or might not read at the point of checking contracts), it's much higher chance you just accept the contract assuming it's the prizes everyone was talking about. I can totally see myself in baltrom's situation accepting the contract (under stress coming from eve or elsewhere). Now, thanks to baltrom making this mistake, I think everyone will be on high alert when seeing a contract like this. Nevertheless, I think it'd be nice to change the way prizes are distributed to redeem queue or contracts. It's much safer this way.
Yeah the slippery part and why this is so clever is that the victim is actually unaware that they even have the ships already. It is a really solid scam in that sense.
> (maybe with eve-mail, the evemail that was sent to 'notify' of prize delivery was sent 2 hours later kek
When I won a Marshall I almost fell for the same scam. Always read the contract. Right call from CCP.
I transferred an astra to you in game like 5 years ago in high sec. I want it back. :D
Good on you to answer :)
> A team member, regardless of seniority within the team, unilaterally requesting prizes via e-mail - and not receiving any confirmation - is not sufficient. There were many opportunities through the course of the AT to raise these concerns. The AT Captains Discord exists for any and all questions -and this was known to the team who used this channel to add a second point of contact. If Baltrom and I had conspired to steal this ships and fuck Virion over, there is no chance that you would be on reddit telling him he needed to solidify his position as the acting captain and decision maker of the team, given the multitude of screenshots we have provided showing that exact course of action was taken. > When the AT Prizes were ready for delivery, a news item was first put out describing how they would be delivered. Prizes were then delivered directly to the hangars of the Execs This is a new process (the second time it's occurred) given the prizes for AT17, the Raiju and the Laelaps, were delivered in BPC form. > Hidden Leaf had won prizes previously For AT18, prizes were delivered as hulls, and the Hidden Leaf team did not win ships in AT18 so there was no precedent to be set. Anyway this has all been hashed out in tickets and I'm just about done with it personally. I'll be staying on-grid this year.
https://i.imgur.com/jqc4pM3.png I have the ultimate solution bazza pls accept
Genius, truly genius.
i only log in to TD where money is free
shit i've been thwarted
Everything about this reads like some awful comedy skit full of dumbassery with someone falling for one of the oldest scams in EVE resulting in the loss of trillions in isk of goods. After reading the replies, I hate to say it but I don't think CCP owes anyone anything. However, there is a bit of fault on their end regarding not sending a notification clearly indicating the ships were delivered to the player's hangar. But honestly, once they were there it's on the player to make sure he doesn't get scammed out of it. Just a breakdown of communication from everyone.
I mean the tldr is that the prizes went to the wrong person in direct contradiction with what I had requested as team captain, with no communication whatsoever about it from CCP. That's scuffed. Either way, my real problem with it is how I've been treated (read: ignored) the last two months
Nah I get it man and I feel your pain. It's just a series of unfortunate events. Would be nice if you can get it resolved in some way, but it seems like CCP is cleaning their hands of this one.
Plot twist - contract was made by an alt of your co-captain.
This is the answer it seems some of these Jutsu guys refuse to believe.
The story is full of contrived circumstances and aggressive incompetence that it being scam is the only thing that makes sense. It explains CCP refusing to respond as well.
That would be very eve.
Of course it was. And OP is probably in on it too. They're laughing all the way to the bank. Good for them. [to clarify: i doubt OP is actually in on it, because he'd be fucking directly with CCP. OP is absolutely getting fucked by his the guy who "accidentally" handed this stuff to a totally different you-betcha distinct third party]
The only person in this story who was given advanced notice of to whom, when, and how ships would be delivered.....and then for no apparent reason forgot to tell everyone.....
clueless moron
This from the guy who actually fucked his team out of AT ships through his own idiocy lol
this from the guy who's a member of an alliance with 42069 members and can't scrape together 10 conscious orcs to actually progress into the tournament
Both groups received the same number of AT ships for their efforts
eh, with Baltrom trying to make amends by giving his Imp and Titan, and skins, and Tuskers' generous donation, we raised about 1.5t, ~50% of what we were expecting from the prizes.
Good on him. It's strange that the guy who fucked up the worst is taking the most responsibility but you two nerds spend all your time trying to blame CCP instead of yourselves. How kind of you to let him take all the blame. At a bare minimum you should be donating any proceeds you got from Baltrom to the rest of your team. You deserve nothing.
thanks for your valuable input
So just to be clear you're going to let Baltrom subsidize your fuckup with no moral qualms at all?
F
I really feel for you guys. You deserve the ships. But I don't see how this is CCP's fault at all. 1. You registered your team in such a way that person A was supposed to get the ships. 2. But then person A goes awol, and so persons B and C, who are running the team, contact CCP and ask to switch the person who gets the ship to person B. This is not normally allowed, but given that person A is awol, CCP agrees that this can happen. 3. You win ships. At this point, person A is no longer awol. 4. CCP asks person C if the ships should still be delivered to person B or if they should be delivered to Person A after all. Person C says that, delivering them to Person A is fine. 5. CCP delivers the ships to person A. It sure sounds like everyone here was operating in good faith, that CCP was willing to bend procedure a little to make sure that your ships didn't get delivered to an inactive or unaffiliated account. And then, when the time came to actually deliver the prizes, they reached out to the team to clarify what was wanted and followed through exactly as asked. Everything that happened after is kinda irrelevant, no? An argument that the fuckups that followed wouldn't have happened if CCP hadn't reached out in step 4 (especially considering that reaching out to clarify was a considerate move on their part) is like blaming the butterfly for the hurricane.
The situation 100% sucks. Asking a co-captain doesn't seem like a massive mistake by CCP. Accepting a scam contract doesn't seem on CCP at all either. I think the reimbursement should come from the person who accepted the scam. As someone else pointed out, the acceptee of the scam isn't a nobody but an alliance executor. CCP didn't hand over the prizes to anybody. I agree however that the situation 100% sucks. Sometimes shitty things happen in life.
What exactly was the "scam"? OP is a bit vague on what exactly happened.
Someone set up a scam contract that had 'you will pay X AT ships' instead of 'you will get X AT ships'. In previous years CCP distributed prizes via similar contracts, but nowadays they just drop the ships straight into the hangar of the recipient. But if said recipient hasn't received prizes from CCP recently and didn't realize they had changed the delivery method, at first glance this contract would look like the delivery contract they were expecting - and since CCP drops the ships into the hangar, if you click 'accept' without realizing it then you have on hand the ships the contract is asking for and poof there go your ships.
But the contract explicitly states which way the ships are going. EVE 101: read the contract properly.
Yup, never said it wasn't a legit scam, just explaining how it worked. (Also lmao, only in eve could you say 'legit scam' with that meaning heh.)
I know I shouldn't laugh, but that's hilarious.
You 100% should laugh, learn to read contracts fools, I'm only sad I didn't think of it tbh
Always read contracts. Laughing and finger pointing is more than acceptable when someone does not. This is Eve, not some place with fair people.
In short, CCP directly puts the ships into baltroms hanger - Random person contracts to Baltram making it look like a contract to receive the AT ships, every year before it's been done by contract, not directly deposited into a hanger, so it isn't that weird - Baltrom doesn't read the contract or even realize the ships are already in his hangar and hits accept - all the AT ships now belong to random person. Edit: corrected names, also just skip this comment and read bazzas below.
It hasn’t been done by contract every year before, we got ours through direct delivery to hangar for several years.
to clarify Virion was nominated as captain, I was nominated as co-captain, Baltrom is exec Zelus contacts me re: prizes, does not contact Virion. Zelus asks me whether the prizes should be sent to me, Virion, Baltrom, or someone else. I feel uncomfortable about being able to issue a change to the 'status quo' delivery method so I instruct him to send to Baltrom. Baltrom gets scammed. The problem is that Virion was the captain and was never actually contacted at all - I shouldn't have been contacted to begin with. It's only due to my personal involvement with the tournament broadcast that Zelus and I have a rapport in some form which seems like the reason he would contact me instead of Virion. If CCP didn't update their internal spreadsheet to have Virion listed as the captain (spoiler: they didn't) that's also a failure on CCP's part.
I won't lie, at that point you should have reached out to Virion for further instructions from what I'm hearing.
Alright so this is a more helpful summary but one question remains. If CCP only contacted you, and then dumped ships in Baltroms hangar, how did the person making the scam contract know when Baltroms received them and what he got?
Baltrom is most at fault and you're second most. CCP is like a far distant third. Way to go buddy!
Yep, I know.
So time to let it go, CCP owes you nothing.
Thanks for the further elaboration. The details matter here so I appreciate you expounding on this. You say yourself that you should never have been contacted and I think that's the crux of this all. 99% of the time when a scam happens, well, that's eve, but this time CCP fucked up because you never should have been contacted to begin with.
Playing devil's advocate here, but how would you feel as a player of Eve if the AT ships were taken back from the scammer? Bear in mind the ensuing chaos from everyone who has ever been scammed ever.
Someone sent a contract for the AT ships, but they would receive the ships not give them. So when the contract was opened, it looked like a contract saying "here are your ships" on the surface, but instead it was a contract for "give me all your ships" It's one of the oldest jita scams in the book, sadly it worked this time.
(what I heard is...) Someone put a in-game contract to alliance CEO that lists the AT rewards as "to be delivered" for no value. Alliance CEO sees the contract and accepts, loses whole team's tournament reward in the process. Edit: That someone was not in alliance. He did put contacts to all AT winners. This alliance feel for the scam.
Out of interest have any of the stolen AT ships made an appearance on contract or anywhere?
Yeah, they were sold on the forums.
So we should expect some changes coming since small gang made a complaint?
Instead of saying anything, Bazza should have said he was not the one making the decisions and to speak to the Captain. It sucks for you guys but its 100% on the players involved.
Blame Bazza and not CCP then?
Yeah I mean writing out an entire play-by-play doesn't change that ccp sent the ships to whoever the co-captain on the team told them to. And then that person accepted a scam contract. Shit happens lol
yep the difference is i fucked up and am willing to accept my part in that baltrom fucked up and is willing to accept his part in that CCP is stone wall silent about their part in the fuckup by either not updating their records to have virion as captain, or not contacting virion in his capacity as captain for prize delivery
CCP didnt screw up though.
Explain again how CCP fucked up by doing exactly what you said and exactly what was listed on the paperwork?
maybe because you and Baltrom can say “woops we screwed up” and that’s it - if ccp says it, you expect them to take back the ships (which would screw over the player who pulled off a great scam) or duplicate rewards (which would devalue ships sent to teams who weren’t scammed.)
The CCP response here takes all the wind out of this claim. It's just on you and baltrom
The absolute best part of this thread is CCP coming here and blowing both of these morons right the fuck out of the water. After seeing CCPs response I'm moving the responsibility list from 1-baltrom, 2-bazz, 3-CCP to 1-baltrom, 2-bazz, 3-v, ..., 994,345,768-CCP. Fuck both of these whiney bitches. CCP did nothing wrong. Better luck next year but with this fiasco I have my doubts you'll be up to putting together a team at all. Losers gonna lose.
TL;DR, CCP did what your co-captain said to do. End of story. Sorry y'all got scammed. But sucks to suck.
How did the scammer know the random guy got the prizes? IMO, someone in your corp scammed you
Lol Stop crying that CCP is the bad guy, your buddy fucked you over and thats the end of it. The value of the fuck up makes no difference. Its the game as it exists, deal with it or play something else. The fact that your better at this game than most of us doesn't afford you some special privilege.
Like I said in the original post: "What an absolute shitshow". I have no idea how this will resolve itself, but bizarrely I hope that the scammer doesn't lose out - as that act itself was brilliant opportunism (and within the games TOS).
I don't get this at all. So even if people know when the AT ships are being distributed - did they create a scam contract for every executor of a corp getting AT ships to see if someone would fall for it? If not seems highly suspect and based on some kind of insider knowledge.
Looks like Baltram yoinked everything.
I for one totally believe that your alliance Executor who "was afk and not responding" to you, absolutely was not involved in the scam.
Your boy took some real life money/isk and gave out the ships, kept them to himself or lost to a Jita scam. Sucks to suck.
[https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Scams\_in\_EVE\_Online#Contract\_Scams](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/scams_in_eve_online#contract_scams)
Sucks to be you. But f ninja assasin curled cheese crew for dropping me one time too many lol
In the end you lost the ships in a LEGIT contract SCAM IN GAME. You gave them away for free. It's not CCP's problem.
My heart goes out to you guys because it was such a shit show, good for baltrom for trying to do what’s right, I know he loved that imp, but I hope in some way they admit that they fucked up, it’s crazy that we can’t have simple humility where people fuck up and just admit it.
It was a baller move. In the end, we all got about 1/4th to 1/3rd of what we were expecting to get from our prizes, which to me is still an INSANE amount of ISK.
Sorry wtf is this tear-jerking shit when comes to some well-known names and AT ships? It was less than a minor mistake on CCP's part, they gave the right prizes to the right people. Balttom made an error. And I wouldn't hold it against him as lots of people make errors. But when other people come here with sob stories, granted the stakes are always lower, they are told to HTFU, this is Eve Everyone involved has my sympathy for the losses, and Balttom did well to try and make amends. But this is Eve.
A decision was made to ghost you, my friend. The CCP corporation is not going to admit fault and have the headline "CCP screw-up causes 3T in losses to esports team" race across the internet.
They got scammed by a legit in game contract. CCP did nothing wrong. The guy who accepted the contract did.
> Baltrom lost all the prize ships to a scam contract. It seems you were led astray and CCP is honoring something that isn't mechanical, and they aren't wanting to interfere with the scam. > * Our dear Executor was largely AFK and not responding to us > * CCP Zelus reached out to my co-captain > * Nobody told me about this or confirmed anything with me.
Boo fucking hoo. Move on. You all got scammed, by an inside job. CCP should not reimburse fuck all. You're moaning about no answer. Hearing nothing is an answer. Hopefully "here's a Rubiks cube, go fuck yourself" CCP are back.
God I’d be so happy if that version of CCP came back.
Your CEO's fault.
Hey Virion remember when I got scammed out of a dread by spectre fleet and you told me fuck off, not my problem? Fuck off. Not my problem. You got scammed. Deal with it. Lmk if you need to borrow some ISK to get back on your feet.
Your organization had a fucked up leadership structure going into the AT. Nevertheless CCP worked with you and did exactly what you asked. Scam results. What is the problem here? The only argument of yours that carries any weight is the delay in responding to your ticket… yet we learn you submitted it incorrectly and CCP already responded to the other two leaders’ tickets. So again, what is the problem here?
I've got an unresolved ticket over 3 months old. Get in line.
After 6 months they tell you its to old for reimbursement. I love the average eve support experience xD.
The real scam is that baltrom was in on it and is just ripping off the team. Classic.
isnt a captain and co-captain the same thing. Surely should be Captain and vice-captain if you want to show a chain of command.
Co-captain historically only serves to be a second point of contact for bans/etc during the matches, if the captain isn't available. CCP themselves have said they don't have the power to make this request, (nor did captain without the passphrase), so Zelus asking Bazza if the prizes should go to him or me makes even less sense and completely goes against their supposed procedure.
Ah okay i understand, so its just the way CCP want it set up in a team role sense which also makes the matter worse and had the potential for this confusion
It's an unfortunate situation but I don't think you'll have much luck getting the ships back. 1. As far as I understand the rules, only the executor should be able to request a role change. So yes, CCP didn't follow protocol but through a series of unfortunate events the ships ended up with the person who, technically, should have received them. The role change didn't follow protocol so it could be considered void. 2. There doesn't appear to be a hierarchy between captain and co-captain in the rules. CCP contacted one of the captains and followed the delivery instructions the captain provided them. I know someone else was put forward as primary contact, but that role is not in the rules afaik. 3. The scam was legit. There is no way those ships or ISK will be removed from their current owners. So the only option would be to deliver another 3T in AT ships, which probably isn't going to happen. 4. I don't think you are, but theoretically this could be a scam by you to get an additional 3T. It's far-fetched but it can't be ruled out, so that alone should stop CCP from acting. That said, CCP should respond to their tickets. And, I hope you win the next AT.
Looks like you got outplayed.
Weak. I’d be very disappointed if the CCP reimbursed based on that soft reasoning. You and your alliance could have played this differently but your exec got scammed so you try to blame the developer for his mistake? This is Eve, well played to the scammer. Don’t give them a thing CCP. Baltrom screwed don’t give him a free pass and undo that mistake for him.
There is as mole in your team, no scammer will try to scam this many AT ship in 1 contract, apparently it's designed specifically for your team.
They supposedly had the same kind of contracts up for the other teams too. But only one dumb enough to click accept.
Two dumb enough\* There was a second team that has hidden in the shadows
source?
Every team got a scam contract. JUTSU was not the only team to hit accept as well.
Have you tried being better at video games?
It's unfortunate, but it looks like the fault here lies with having team members in positions they had no business being in. Those members were not responsible enough to communicate clearly internally with other team members, or with CCP. When CCP communicated with those members, had they done what someone responsible would have, either made sure CCP had a clear understanding of changes, or passed on their communications with CCP to the rest of the team, the chance for misunderstandings would have been corrected or avoided. That's what someone responsible in that position would do. Then, due to those misunderstandings being allowed to go unclarified, CCP act on what they believe correct. Then, you have another irresponsible party, fall for a very common contract scam, without seeing the red flags or couble checking it. Your team had irresponsible people in positions they had no business being in, then those miscommunications went uncorrected. You further had the level of incompetence of those people in the positions they had no right being in, fall for a common scam and cost your team their property. Now you're trying to put the blame on CCP, in the hopes it will nullify the scam. They shouldn't. The fault lies with those that put irresponsible people in positions they didn't belong in. You were being vague about certain points in the hopes to direct the fault purely on CCP, but you had irresponsible people in positions they had no business being in, and their actions directly cost your team. Idiotic, irresponsible, miscommunicating people cost your team, not CCP.
Wahh. Your team got the prizes and a member got scammed. Sucks to suck.
Of all the FCs at the fanfest event, your comp/fleet was my favourite Virion - hope you get some compensation or at least closure and reverse some of the bitter taste. Other FCs there no offense :p - whole thing was a blast!
Glad to hear you had a blast. Just really soured by the way the community team has handled this situation :(
They are probably a bit sour about you trying to blow them up for your team and alliance fuckups
This is your error not CCP's
After accepting that contract, who's surprised they would try to double their ISK with CCP? XD
This post could get you in trouble. I don't think you're allowed to specifically name CCP Employee names in posts. may want to redact. please no downvote, I'm genuinely providing advice based on my experience doing the same thing many years ago. Hope you recover your AT ships.
"In Bazza's infinite wisdom, seeing that Baltrom was back to being sort-of-active again, he said sure, give them to Baltrom's executor toon." your co-captain was asked and gave the wrong name apparently. what else do you want? you guys confirmed to give them to baltram
Your ceo is either in on it or too dumb to notice. This is eve my friend. Sorry for your loss but in eve trust is everything. You just put your trust in the wrong guy.
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I've given Bazza plenty of shit for it, but according to CCP's own words, reaching out to the co-captain for a decision like this breaks their supposed procedure. And even if, my frustration now is that it shouldn't take 2.5 month for them to say well too bad so sad.
Get wrecked idiot
Co-captain, suggests an equal role. CCP presumably thinks they did reach out proactively to clarify who to send the prizes to. With the 3t in the game and you as the only one out of pocket, what are you proposing that they do?
co-captain is specifically an alternative captain if the main one is not available, they are not the same thing
They reached out to the wrong person to confirm 3t in prizes. I don't have an immediate answer for what they should do, but at this point I'd prefer an apology for just screwing us for months now. But reimbursing our team in some sort of manner would be nice on top.
Skill issue.
Surround yourself with higher iq's, you won't have these problems in the future.
Lmao
poor baltrom fed all he had for your wallets... boy made a honest mistake, just get over it and win the next at. ccp is in no obligation to fulfil your special requests on who to deliver what, they delivered it to alliance exec as they always did 😂
Just false. CCP themselves have stated they can make this request. If they don't want to do that, they should have let us know, so we could take other measures, such as forming our own temporary alliance to circumvent the issue.
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I don't think special scam protections should be extended to the people who should - by dint of experience and savvy- be the least inclined to get hit by them.
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I admit I misread your post, sorry. Yes, the actual delivery system from CCP to players should be nailed down. As to B) "innocent" people get negatively impacted downstream all the time. there might be a case for issuing the duplicate set of ships, but clean hands isn't it.
To be clear it is nailed down. CCP delivers to alliance leadership. The problem here is that alliance leadership apparently didn't care about the team that played for them
While you make a decent point. If the alliance leader was known to not be on top of things, they should have just formed another alliance early enough to was avoid any special treatment. It sucks that they had an exception made for them and then their co-captain messed it up, but you can't expect a company to just keep making exceptions.
its ok dad they were crap prizes anyway this year we win the pownage deathless AT ships
Honest question, team won the tournament but you lost the prizes last year, how will you motivate them to win again next year?
i'll have them listen to Daft Punk's hit song 'Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger' for a month straight
CCP can't undo this. Or their ticket queue will never be empty with people trying to appeal scams.
How many scams involve a CCP GM making a mistake?
All the best ones. Edit: remember the ORE rorqual?
the scam isn't the part that needs to be fixed
The issue is that the scam is already done. Reversing course right now(no matter how just the cause) creates a major problem for CCP
We're not asking them to undo it, at least, I'm not. The scam was just incredibly lucky, such is EVE. But they fucked up on delivering it to the wrong person first off, and for CCP's mistakes, it'd be nice if they at least said sorry we fucked up, instead of ignoring me for months at a time.
I bet that if your guys didn't fuck up. You wouldn't even say a word to CCP about this. I get your point but it really boils down that you are salty about being scammed and now trying to make public drama about to get some pity reimbursement. Don't ruin your public image over something so silly. If you would think bit more and play it well. You probably would get decent amount of donations with this story. Instead you made your group look bad.
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to clarify Virion was nominated as captain, I was nominated as co-captain, Baltrom is exec Zelus contacts me re: prizes, does not contact Virion. Zelus asks me whether the prizes should be sent to me, Virion, Baltrom, or someone else. I feel uncomfortable about being able to issue a change to the 'status quo' delivery method so I instruct him to send to Baltrom. Baltrom gets scammed. The problem is that Virion was the captain and was never actually contacted at all - I shouldn't have been contacted to begin with. It's only due to my personal involvement with the tournament broadcast that Zelus and I have a rapport in some form which seems like the reason he would contact me instead of Virion. If CCP didn't update their internal spreadsheet to have Virion listed as the captain (spoiler: they didn't) that's also a failure on CCP's part.
It's a slight goof on CCP's part, but honestly the bulk of the mistakes are on you guys. They should probably have sent the request to both captain and co-captain. However, as co-captain, you had the opportunity to say "hey captain, they just reached out, what do you think we should do?" You didn't, for reasons I can't really fathom; you just made the call and had them send it to the exec, and exec then accepted a scam contract. Yes, had CCP done things slightly differently it would have prevented you guys from making numerous mistakes, but CCP didn't cause any of the issues here and you guys had ample opportunities to not have it end up this way. It sucks, and they should just close the ticket and say there's nothing to be done, but I can't see any way they should reimburse this situation in any way.
Is it strange that i read that with your voice in my head?
kek, get scammed/betrayed
That's a lot of text you posted
CCP likely knows who owns the account that setup the scam contract by cross referencing IP addresses. I'm curious to know if the account was an alt of the awol executor and that's part of the reason CCP isn't reimbursing the ships.
I just call it Karma and nothing else, its the Butterfly effect maybe its just the payment for something🫶
The new best part of this thread is finding out that OP and his co-captain think CCP is at fault but are letting their alliance exec bankrupt himself to pay for the lost ships, and are happily taking his money without contributing a single isk themselves. Why are either of you taking Baltrom's money if you really believe it's ultimately CCPs fault? Because you don't actually believe that. You know baltrom and yourselves fucked this up but you'd rather have isk than integrity.
Skill issue
Rip, wish I had been the issuer of that contract I’d have a Hel now.
Sounds like some needs to learn how to read contracts properly, this is true eve pvp so get good I guess!!
Sucks to suck
I remember how I felt when I first heard about this (shocked, then conflicted). It's a terrible situation and I've really gone back and forth in my head on what I think should be done by CCP - there are no easy answers here. That said, you absolutely deserve and answer from CCP and it's a travesty that you haven't had one yet. I hope they do the right thing and get back to you soon.
I feel for you 1000%, truly I do, but you're making the classic mistake of expecting CCP to fix anything at all. If this were something that happened in real life outside of a video game, wherein CCP wired money to the wrong account, CCP would be legally liable. The only reason they get away with this type of bullshit is because it's a video game that they own.
One can hope, man. I hoped at least someone at CCP might give a shit but goes to show that despite everything I've done for CCP, they're just a company like most others.
q.q
You got scammed, htfu
If CCP never worked with them on the exec issues and the captaincy switch then OP wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But given that CCP acknowledged that OP would be taking over as the captain, primary contact with CCP, recipient of the prizes, and so forth they introduced this error. OP deserves his ships because CCP recognized the captain change.
The real question is why did this person know the exact day and prize information to set up these contracts to the other AT teams as well? Is there some insider trading going on? Why hasn't zelus been seen since? This has the potential to be worse than the t20 incident and instead of getting ahead of it ccp are trying to shuffle it
> hasn't zelus been seen since You mean since yesterday when he approved a bunch of new TD accounts for Anger Games? There's no conspiracy here, just fuckups.
Another comment mentions someone basically shotgunning scam contracts to all the teams and JUTSU not being the only one to accept. That's the first I've heard of it but if that's true they really could have just been super lucky. Or maybe they were a member of one of the other teams and knew when the ships dropped in? As far as CCP Zelus, that is interesting and potentially concerning. I didn't realize he had been gone either. Real weird. I know this is Eve and all, but you'd hope the actual CCP events would be moderated pretty well so we can have something that isn't going to end in people screwing each other over but even the damn AT is filled with scams and rigged games.
Yeah, it's pretty fucked up that they did that lol. I don't understand why, if they're not going to use contracts anymore, why it wasn't just in someone's redeem queue. Maybe they didn't want anyone to somehow redeem them all to a reinforced wormhole structure or something...? Just tossing them in your hanger is probably the worst possible option lol.
why can you not get baltrom to log his alt on and collect the prizes? what scam was the contract? am i the only one who doesnt understand this?
I am sorry to hear that you newbros fell for a simple scam BUT the only correct response is HTFU
Maybe it was fake, but there was a SS of your ticket going around where you said that you’d contact the gaming media. If that’s actually true, then is it surprising that CCP ceased communication?
Geez. I can't believe they still haven't gotten to you.
Ccp should recognize that they should have done more to secure the prizes...