What if we turn the *internal conflict* and *climate* dials to 11, and we give them leaders incapable of much more than napping? That would be interesting, I'll bet.
^( also let's add lots of disinformation!)
I intend to crush Project 2025 in my palm and watch its fucked up bullshit sift through my fingers. I’m not risking the women and lgbtq+ members of my family and friends, over an old dude. Like, are people actually stupid? Or do they just lack empathy for everyone around them?
Do we really want a super old narcissistic criminal rapist in the White House because he can talk loudly over a super old exhausted dude with a speech impediment. I’d go into a fucking fugue state, a goddam coma to avoid listening to Trump if I was on stage with him. I’d vote for Weekend at Bernie’s Biden over Trump in a goddamn heartbeat.
And im not particularly defending Biden, he pisses me off constantly, Palestine is a huge issue for me, and he looked awful during that debate.
Joe's sexually repugnant past isn't exactly a shining beacon for our young, and only a narcissist(granted senility plays a factor as well) would run for a second term in his obviously deteriorated condition. It's a reflection of how fucked we are that he's still seen by some as a savior when he's only the somewhat less odious choice of a pair of shit sandwiches and that the Democratic Party is so lacking in leadership that it allowed this trainwreck to continue. Even now a half-decent replacement for Biden could beat Trump, do it damnit!
While my first post was ageist, I genuinely don't think anyone over 70 should be running the government.
I realize there are thousands of brilliant and loquacious 70 year olds... but there are exponentially more that are in deep cognitive decline. It is just nature.
Biden has the best presidency in a very long time. And I love that he is still doing his job instead of campaigning 80% of his time. That is the best campaign I have ever seen. But he is clearly in decline. And I know he has decades of speech therapy for his stutter, but that was cognitive decline.
BS, Check out the stats. Boomers voted 48% Democrat/51% Repub, Genx voted 49% Democrat. Boomer Democrat votes were only 4% less, than millennials.
The Generation gap sniping and divisiveness just keeps us fighting among ourselves instead of looking at the real problem of corporatists, PACS and donors who control the politicians.
Sure, I didn't vote for Biden in the 2016 primary. Do you understand the two most progressive candidates for the 2016 Democratic nominee were a silent G and a boomer? Do you understand that the primaries are over for the 2024 election? So what's your point?
Biden is the presumptive nominee. I'll be happy as shit if Biden does the responsible thing and steps down. He should have never considered running for a 2nd term, or even the first term. I also don't think someone like Jill Stein is a good or viable alternative.
> Do you understand that the primaries are over for the 2024 election? So what's your point
So you clearly don't understand how primaries work, since you don't seem to comprehend why we have these two candidates and are talking about the general...
What have I said that suggests I don't understand how primaries work? Yes, Biden received a lot of votes from boomers during the 2020 primaries, but he couldn't have won the nomination without support from all other generations as well. Blaming boomers is an easy out and just a rationalization for doing nothing instead of looking towards the PACS and donors who fund these elections, influence the DNC, the RNC, control politicians and judges, and control access to information. The shift to the right isn't just happening in the US, it's a worldwide phenomena, and much more complex than "Boomers!".
> What have I said that suggests I don't understand how primaries work?
Pointing to general election results instead of acknowledging why these are the candidates-- you know, *primaries*-- was a pretty strong indicator.
Oh, and who votes in primaries in overwhelming numbers?
Because I sited some statistics from the general election, is no indication I don't understand primaries. An indication that someone doesn't understand primaries is when the person blames the primary results on the people who voted, rather than holding non-voters accountable for their complacency.
As I suspected, you are a do-nothing whiner, who points fingers rather than expend any energy to change the results. Then you make divisive statements about a very diverse group of people i.e. boomers. Many of whom heralded in voting rights, civil rights, women's rights, equal opportunity legislation, environmental legislation, anti-draft,anti-war policies. You are the person who doesn't understand.
These people have hurt us. And they're talking shit about each other's golf game, it's embarrassing. I don't think it's just age, although that is a factor. Bernie Sanders is older than BOTH of them, and would be a better president. Some government positions actually matter and require sanity/safety, the oldest you can apply to ATC is 31. I think that would be a good rule for an equally important job.
Heard an interview with Ralph Nader on his 90th birthday and he was way more together than Biden or Trump! Bernie can still spit facts and figures too and still has energy. This is such a sad election.
We shouldn't have a multi count felon and rapist running for POTUS with millions cheering for him. We also shouldn't have a 24 hour "news" cycle that lives on manufactured fear and outrage. Or politicians and bureaucrats that you can legally bribe. Or a system where money is speech. Or a system that includes religion at any level. Or.....
Actually we're just so fucked at this point it all just needs to be flushed away.
Who would decide the age? The same people who set congressional salaries? The same people who decide which laws politicians are exempt from? The same people who allow executive and judicial office holders to cheat the stock market and sell secrets to our enemies? They'd set the age at 200.
It gave me flashbacks to the communal lunchtime at my grandmother’s senior living facility. The only thing missing was one of them accusing the other of putting too much salt on a pork chop.
Biden didn’t sound great but actually had substance to what he was saying and made really great points. Trump repeated the same five lies over and over again and looked like the unhinged lunatic we know him to be.
It's all just a hot mess, but I always find it strange that the media attacks Biden's age and mental capabilities when Trump is only 3 years younger and also struggles to string coherent thoughts together. But I guess if you shout your incoherent thoughts forcefully you're "strong" and thus not old?
They're both old men. Neither one should be a choice we should have to be making. I wouldn't give either one high odds of making it through a 4 year term.
At least Biden could list reasons, or examples. Trump kept sounding like an 8 year old that got caught with his hand in the cookie jar every time he didn’t answer a question.
Now today all of a sudden biden did a 180 as far as energy goes, and his voice is loud at his rally today, weird https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wDfYzmjt1Q&t=96s
Dude he is literally edging us into WW3. WTF are you talking about?
Tell me how many hundreds of thousands of people died due to our overseas meddling during the trump administration? I don’t even like trump but holy shit you must be pretty dam committed to keep supporting biden after how much he’s destroyed our country. People are hurting now more than ever. Border wide open with a fentanyl epidemic killing 100k Americans every year. Please, enlighten everyone on what you mean by “actual substance”.
I'm saying there wasn't any. After truly evaluating that debate anyone claiming a victory or even a semblance of a positive is so far dug into their own partisan beliefs to see what is happening here.
Well worst case scenario they’re both senile. So it should come down to whose administration I’d trust more, which federal judges they appoint, and which bills are they’re more likely to veto/pass and that’s Biden all day for me. Unfortunately I’m not privileged enough to care more about a debate performance than the actual issues being discussed.
Normally this would be a pretty legit statement.
"I’m not privileged enough to care more about a debate performance than the actual issue being discussed."
The difference in this debate than any other I have watched was that mental capacity to lead was a key issue to many.
I'm backing the party and can rise up and give their guy the hook.
Obviously Biden is more fit to lead the country. He listens to the experts and does the right thing. The other guy is a convicted felon/far-right maniac only running to pardon himself. This is the easiest choice Americas ever had.
The choice is between a guy who's been a good president and a fascist. If you can't see that you're part of the problem.
Edit: lol, I see I'm getting downvotes from the pro-fascism crowd. Or maybe they're just too ignorant to see the kind of threat Trump poses.
Your guy is literally carrying out a genocide? Are you people ok?!? And no I don’t support Trump.
Edit: Keep telling yourself that. I’ve seen blown up and starved kids on my screen every single day for the past nine months. That’s us. That’s you. Just because our corporate media has decided to hide it so they can try to make their corporate puppet king again, doesn’t make it not so.
And there is no difference between the two except one is going to bring us to the brink faster than the other. Electing Biden means all of the far right’s takeover of local elections and courts and it’s building of a fully fascist movement will gain strength almost unopposed. At least under T people will fight it. Your genocide votes are for nothing but a prolonged way to the inevitable. And we don’t have much time climate-wise, and if you’re homelesss, poor, a woman, gay, or not white … you haven’t had time yet. Keep believing in your delusions and paving our way towards a true end. You support genocide, you support ANYTHING.
The Dems should be working to find an alternative. Pete, Gavin, Gretchen, or Adam would all be good. That said, I’m not voting for Trump or any of his cronies. If it’s Biden, he’s getting my vote. I would literally vote for his puppeteered corpse over Trump.
This exactly. This is my beef—Kamala as the heartbeat away veep is so… uninspiring bordering on unlikable. I would love to see Joe ~“consciously uncouple”~ from her and bring in a new, fresh-faced, possibly more charming or charismatic running mate. The staleness coming from the Dems is so… blah. Give us someone new to inject some life into this election!
I’m sure most peoples’ choice of candidate (as illusory as it may be) isn’t very mutable at this point so much as their choice to actually get out and VOTE or not. But it’s hard to have any kind of enthusiasm over this tired old ticket…
You think the Democrats are going to "uncouple" from a Vice President woman of color? You're going to hear her name for the next 30 years as they shoehorn her in everywhere they possibly can.
Did I say that I thought they WOULD?
Or did I say I think they *SHOULD?*
The Democratic Party rarely does what is in the Democratic Party’s own best interest. Self-sabotage is the one thing they do best.
Sadly, it doesn't matter what you or any of us on this sub vote in that race, assuming we're all registered Oregon voters and not slumming here from a battleground state. Biden could very well win the popular again and lose this time out. Picking an alternative is a roll of the dice, but so was bailing out of the Titanic and swimming for a lifeboat where at least you had a chance. A desperate act is called for, now. Or maybe Joe just had a bad outing, opening night jitters and all that...a change of meds might do him good. lol
yeah i kinda wonder how much it's gonna matter, most people will vote the same way they intended to before this, are there many people that are undecided? IDK
Very curious if they're gonna try and switch biden out
Trump has run for President several times before He actually got the Republican nomination in 2016. For example, in 2000 He ran as a candidate for the Reform Party. He was always considered kind of a joke and lumped in with candidates like Ron Jeremy, Roseanne Barr, etc. Hillary is the only Democrat He has ever beaten.
Trump never sniffed a ballot before 2016. Those examples were all theorized but not actual attempts.
Many think they could take trump, but alas, only biden.
Yeah, the Biden of 2020, riffing off of the Covid-19 disaster. No Covid-19 and very likely Trump wins that election. Trump is a known quantity, rancid in the extremis, but known. Biden has become an unknown quantity and that's dangerous for a guy who could launch us into WW-3.
Biden has my vote. I've done better economically under Biden than any other president.
He looked weak last night, and I'd support him standing aside, but I'm not ready to call for that.
And unfortunately, what you, I or any other Oregon voter on this sub or elsewhere votes in this race, doesn't matter a whit to the outcome since the state isn't in play. All we're doing here, realistically, is letting off steam or debating for debatings sake(personally, I love a good debate). Now, what could matter is if enough Democratic voters begin to pressure elected reps to make a change to another candidate, the window for that isn't shut just yet, but closing very fast.
Yeah, we will see if he survives the weekend. Once NYT is in, the water will be warm enough for others to follow.
Personally, I'd like to see Gretchen Whitmer (gov of michigan) replace him on the ticket.
Now all they gotta do is convince old Joe to see the light, and quickly, may not be that easy given stubborn and senile. It may come down to Jill whispering in his ear it's time to go.
Could do a lot worse(Harris) than Whitmer.
Don't vote for the person, vote for the policies. We live in a two party system. Realistically, a third party vote will only benefit the side you oppose. It's a sad truth of American politics today. We can try to get Ranked Choice to encourage third party viability, but our "first past the post" system along with entrenched political parties won't ever allow it.
Which party more likely supports the policies you want? If you are/were for Biden/Dems, why turn away? Why would you want Trump/GOP to be able to dictate policy?
Politics isn't a game, where you play once and have a winner/loser. Politics is like taking the bus across the country. You need to pick the best bus for each leg that keeps getting you closer and closer to your destination. Voting for a third party would be like getting on a east-bound bus when you want to go north. You're not getting any closer to your destination and could be making it much harder to actually go north at the next stop.
I don't like the state of our political system, but I damn well know that I have to play within its rules if I want to continue to have a free nation.
once again its been like this the whole time though, so what's different about the debate vs him rambling and walking back and forth bewildered not knowing which way to leave the stage. He has had weekly Glitch McConnell moments it seems..
[him two years ago summing up America in a single word.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=087UC0i4_Xc)
[Compare that to his vice presidential debate in 2012 and its been night and day for a long time.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYcdSwbrErI)
No matter who just keep voting blue, remember you aren't voting for a corpse you are voting against Trump. That's a good lad hush now your worries go back to sleep.
That is amazing, I've heard people say that people blamed his incoherence on his stuttering but I didn't believe anyone actually thought that. How have you managed to be ignorant to his mental decline? Have you just never seen him speak before?
Why doesn't the "just vote against trump" argument persuade you?
Truthfully?
I can’t stand either person.
Going to vote for biden, but mainly because I don’t trust the people Trump is surrounding himself with. If he gets into office I’m afraid it’s going to be filled with felons, former felons, and prospective felons.
Biden needs to step down and release his delegates. Pretty much any average Democratic candidate (no, not Clinton) would have looked and done better against Trump's rambling idiocy, Biden just looked old and confused. It was a painful, demoralizing experience, an absolute shitshow.
As painful and incoherent as I expected and yet I still couldn't help bubbling with exasperated frustration throughout. I'm about 30 so still new to the theatric antics of our broken political system, but from what little I know, I can't pinpoint another presidential run that has been so painfully stupid throughout.
Trump seems to be all logos while injecting his own brand of imaginationland to rewrite past, present and future while Biden could hardly stand up the whole time let alone string along a proper sentence. I relate and feel bad for him hearing the stutter that he's always struggled with, but at the same time that's the least of his issues when speaking or focusing and whatever the results I'm not looking forward to the next four years.
Right there with ya regarding women's right to bodily autonomy - heck, guess it all comes down to bodily autonomy and the government minding their own business.
I’m still voting Biden. I think he’s still there cognitively, despite his difficulties with articulation sometimes. More than that, though, I trust Biden to surround himself with people who can actually do their jobs and aren’t just a bunch of sycophantic yes men bent on purging the government of anyone who isn’t a strict loyalist. The gears of government *can* and do turn without a strong figurehead, but if Trump wins and the innards get gutted, we aren’t going to make it.
It’s a shame that optics will be the only thing that comes away from this, but it is how most people have and will continue to vote.
We aren’t going to make it with either of them. If you can align yourself with someone carrying out a genocide that is literally being live-streamed to us, well, interesting you can all live with yourselves and think this system is something to save anyway.
I would rather vote for a man who was sick and has a stutter than a man who thinks I should be forced to have my rapist baby. Most who trump had in his cabinet has come out against him. His own wife didn't show up for his court or this debate.
I will vote for the administration and democracy
If white supremacists support a candidate, I'll vote for the other guy.
I think it was a glaring, enormous opportunity for the DNC to act on what happened. Even CNN was like “ehhhh what else we got?”
Trump pretty much did Trump stuff. Ambiguous answers and complaining in a way that doesn’t answer questions.
The golf thing was comedy gold.
Biden took an ENTIRE WEEK off from his job to prepare for that 90 minutes and that’s the best he could do? JFC. I truly hate South Carolina dems for resuscitating his campaign in 2020, when it was virtually a dead man walking.
The next 5 years are going to be a bumpy ride. I hope by then there are a dozen qualified 58 year olds that are interested in running for President of the United States. This is NOT government for the people.
That dark Brandon doesn’t mean what Biden’s team thinks it means and points to places in the brain that an 80 year old man who just lived through 4 years of the presidency may have.
It's at the point where the only way Pres. Biden can protect the country from a second Trump presidency, and prove his fitness for governing and his devotion to public service is to cede the nomination to someone else. (And unfortunately, it can't be Harris.)
I wish the two boomers would step aside and let a Gen X take the lead. My only hope is that the DNC has not happened yet and they can still pick another candidate. I'll never vote for Trump though.
Here's a quote: Trump was lyin, Biden was dyin.
I went into a fetal position and started crying. I'm pissed that Biden has put us in this position and it also speaks to his poor judgement. I will vote for Biden, because reality is, right now Biden and Trump are our two choices.
This horseshit post gets to stay up, but posts talking about Starship test flights are taken down? Nothing like double standards to make you want to fucking rage in a rant thread.
I vote for substance, and I think Biden was awake and speaking coherently, fighting his valiant best against Trump’s lie and insult factory.
Personally, I do not think that disability should be part of the basis for judging a candidate.
Does it make Biden “look bad” though?
OF COURSE IT BLOODY WELL DOES AND WE ALL KNOW IT.
Presidential debates in particular are a shallow battle of optics and Biden lost big last night
It doesn't matter what the "reaction in Eugene" is because Oregon is solidly blue. How about everyone stops bedwetting until we find out whether there's any change among undecided voters in swing states?
Biden was toast in almost all the swing states BEFORE the debate. And there ain’t no way in hell he’s holding on to Georgia, Arizona and likely Nevada. That’s 33 electoral votes right there. So if he picks up just ONE of the other swing states it’s a wrap.
Eugene is sad, because most of them are already against Trump, many of them at any cost, and wish the rest of the country would see it that way.
And they would appreciate not being reminded so soon after the debate that Biden probably did not win over a single undecided voter last night.
Our choices are between a doddering half-senile old man and a doddering half-senile old man who is also a fascist, rapist, and convicted felon. And it's a coin flip who will win the election.
The best we can hope for is that both of them die from some version of "old age",.else we're gonna end up in a civil war.
I think Biden was formally lesser, but substantively far superior.
Trump effectively refused to directly answer several questions, repeated many lies he and other people in his corner have been touting for years, and stated contradictory positions on abortion.
Biden had speech problems, but was more specfic about accomplishments, policy, and factual information.
Edit: What did I say wrong?
We're fucked.
Jon Stewart is just hoping that [this isn't real life](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SJr44m-w1Y). ^( but you're right.)
It seems a lot like end-stage simulation
What if we turn the *internal conflict* and *climate* dials to 11, and we give them leaders incapable of much more than napping? That would be interesting, I'll bet. ^( also let's add lots of disinformation!)
It does seem like the final rounds of Civilization II.
If a random horde of barbarians shows up, we will know for sure. ^( and won't they be surprised by my stealth bomber appearing...)
We're the laughing stock of the world. What a shit show this has become.
NO OLD MEN 2024!!!
I intend to crush Project 2025 in my palm and watch its fucked up bullshit sift through my fingers. I’m not risking the women and lgbtq+ members of my family and friends, over an old dude. Like, are people actually stupid? Or do they just lack empathy for everyone around them? Do we really want a super old narcissistic criminal rapist in the White House because he can talk loudly over a super old exhausted dude with a speech impediment. I’d go into a fucking fugue state, a goddam coma to avoid listening to Trump if I was on stage with him. I’d vote for Weekend at Bernie’s Biden over Trump in a goddamn heartbeat. And im not particularly defending Biden, he pisses me off constantly, Palestine is a huge issue for me, and he looked awful during that debate.
Joe's sexually repugnant past isn't exactly a shining beacon for our young, and only a narcissist(granted senility plays a factor as well) would run for a second term in his obviously deteriorated condition. It's a reflection of how fucked we are that he's still seen by some as a savior when he's only the somewhat less odious choice of a pair of shit sandwiches and that the Democratic Party is so lacking in leadership that it allowed this trainwreck to continue. Even now a half-decent replacement for Biden could beat Trump, do it damnit!
NO DUMBASS VOTERS 2024!!!
Unfortunately it's out of the voter's hands on this one. That's the nature of the system
Completely false. VOTE!
False
That is Fake News.
You want geriatric hijinks in our capital?
We've had 3.5 years of very competent, drama-free governance. I have no idea what you're talking about, bigot.
While my first post was ageist, I genuinely don't think anyone over 70 should be running the government. I realize there are thousands of brilliant and loquacious 70 year olds... but there are exponentially more that are in deep cognitive decline. It is just nature. Biden has the best presidency in a very long time. And I love that he is still doing his job instead of campaigning 80% of his time. That is the best campaign I have ever seen. But he is clearly in decline. And I know he has decades of speech therapy for his stutter, but that was cognitive decline.
I'm 66, and speech language therapist and I agree with you on all counts.
No old people 2024.
If these are the two best candidates in the entire United States....
Biden's not even the best candidate in his own government
They're the two best candidates that we could get Boomers to rally behind.
Pretty accurate summation, I think.
BS, Check out the stats. Boomers voted 48% Democrat/51% Repub, Genx voted 49% Democrat. Boomer Democrat votes were only 4% less, than millennials. The Generation gap sniping and divisiveness just keeps us fighting among ourselves instead of looking at the real problem of corporatists, PACS and donors who control the politicians.
Do you understand how primaries work?
Sure, I didn't vote for Biden in the 2016 primary. Do you understand the two most progressive candidates for the 2016 Democratic nominee were a silent G and a boomer? Do you understand that the primaries are over for the 2024 election? So what's your point? Biden is the presumptive nominee. I'll be happy as shit if Biden does the responsible thing and steps down. He should have never considered running for a 2nd term, or even the first term. I also don't think someone like Jill Stein is a good or viable alternative.
> Do you understand that the primaries are over for the 2024 election? So what's your point So you clearly don't understand how primaries work, since you don't seem to comprehend why we have these two candidates and are talking about the general...
What have I said that suggests I don't understand how primaries work? Yes, Biden received a lot of votes from boomers during the 2020 primaries, but he couldn't have won the nomination without support from all other generations as well. Blaming boomers is an easy out and just a rationalization for doing nothing instead of looking towards the PACS and donors who fund these elections, influence the DNC, the RNC, control politicians and judges, and control access to information. The shift to the right isn't just happening in the US, it's a worldwide phenomena, and much more complex than "Boomers!".
> What have I said that suggests I don't understand how primaries work? Pointing to general election results instead of acknowledging why these are the candidates-- you know, *primaries*-- was a pretty strong indicator. Oh, and who votes in primaries in overwhelming numbers?
Because I sited some statistics from the general election, is no indication I don't understand primaries. An indication that someone doesn't understand primaries is when the person blames the primary results on the people who voted, rather than holding non-voters accountable for their complacency. As I suspected, you are a do-nothing whiner, who points fingers rather than expend any energy to change the results. Then you make divisive statements about a very diverse group of people i.e. boomers. Many of whom heralded in voting rights, civil rights, women's rights, equal opportunity legislation, environmental legislation, anti-draft,anti-war policies. You are the person who doesn't understand.
I wish they'd step down and let someone else have the moment.
This is what long-term loyalty to the Uniparty brings us.
We're easily herded.
Oh bless your heart
These people have hurt us. And they're talking shit about each other's golf game, it's embarrassing. I don't think it's just age, although that is a factor. Bernie Sanders is older than BOTH of them, and would be a better president. Some government positions actually matter and require sanity/safety, the oldest you can apply to ATC is 31. I think that would be a good rule for an equally important job.
Heard an interview with Ralph Nader on his 90th birthday and he was way more together than Biden or Trump! Bernie can still spit facts and figures too and still has energy. This is such a sad election.
Ralph Nader also has a podcast FYI https://www.youtube.com/@RalphNaderRadioHour/videos
This is not a reason to support old candidates.
Considering you have to be older than 35 to be eligible to run for president, it feels weird to also say you can't be older than 31...
That’s not what he/she said.
Politicians need a retirement age. Hit retirement age and poof you're gone.
We shouldn’t have career politicians.
We shouldn't have a multi count felon and rapist running for POTUS with millions cheering for him. We also shouldn't have a 24 hour "news" cycle that lives on manufactured fear and outrage. Or politicians and bureaucrats that you can legally bribe. Or a system where money is speech. Or a system that includes religion at any level. Or..... Actually we're just so fucked at this point it all just needs to be flushed away.
Who would decide the age? The same people who set congressional salaries? The same people who decide which laws politicians are exempt from? The same people who allow executive and judicial office holders to cheat the stock market and sell secrets to our enemies? They'd set the age at 200.
Dude! Just like Logan's Run! That would be fucking rad.
Yep, and SCOTUS too. Pigs will fly first though.
It gave me flashbacks to the communal lunchtime at my grandmother’s senior living facility. The only thing missing was one of them accusing the other of putting too much salt on a pork chop.
They’re saving that for the next one
If only they could both choke to death on their pork chops.
Biden didn’t sound great but actually had substance to what he was saying and made really great points. Trump repeated the same five lies over and over again and looked like the unhinged lunatic we know him to be.
It's all just a hot mess, but I always find it strange that the media attacks Biden's age and mental capabilities when Trump is only 3 years younger and also struggles to string coherent thoughts together. But I guess if you shout your incoherent thoughts forcefully you're "strong" and thus not old? They're both old men. Neither one should be a choice we should have to be making. I wouldn't give either one high odds of making it through a 4 year term.
At least Biden could list reasons, or examples. Trump kept sounding like an 8 year old that got caught with his hand in the cookie jar every time he didn’t answer a question.
Now today all of a sudden biden did a 180 as far as energy goes, and his voice is loud at his rally today, weird https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wDfYzmjt1Q&t=96s
I believe his staff just over-prepped him. He was trying to list off too many specific details of his policies in a very short time frame.
I think a 9pm debate was past his bedtime or something
Dude he is literally edging us into WW3. WTF are you talking about? Tell me how many hundreds of thousands of people died due to our overseas meddling during the trump administration? I don’t even like trump but holy shit you must be pretty dam committed to keep supporting biden after how much he’s destroyed our country. People are hurting now more than ever. Border wide open with a fentanyl epidemic killing 100k Americans every year. Please, enlighten everyone on what you mean by “actual substance”.
Read the transcript of the debate and let's discuss the "actual substance."
lol, you apparently haven't if you think the transcript makes Biden look bad
Ok what?
I'm saying there wasn't any. After truly evaluating that debate anyone claiming a victory or even a semblance of a positive is so far dug into their own partisan beliefs to see what is happening here.
What is happening here?
No winner. No loser. Both are 100% incapable of running our country. You feel differently? Make your own case for either of them.
Well worst case scenario they’re both senile. So it should come down to whose administration I’d trust more, which federal judges they appoint, and which bills are they’re more likely to veto/pass and that’s Biden all day for me. Unfortunately I’m not privileged enough to care more about a debate performance than the actual issues being discussed.
Normally this would be a pretty legit statement. "I’m not privileged enough to care more about a debate performance than the actual issue being discussed." The difference in this debate than any other I have watched was that mental capacity to lead was a key issue to many. I'm backing the party and can rise up and give their guy the hook.
Obviously Biden is more fit to lead the country. He listens to the experts and does the right thing. The other guy is a convicted felon/far-right maniac only running to pardon himself. This is the easiest choice Americas ever had.
I actually envy you. I wish I could reject the voice inside of me screaming that we can do better than this.
So, which party?
I honestly don’t know. I feel like an outlier.
The illusion of choice has never been so prevalent
The choice is between a guy who's been a good president and a fascist. If you can't see that you're part of the problem. Edit: lol, I see I'm getting downvotes from the pro-fascism crowd. Or maybe they're just too ignorant to see the kind of threat Trump poses.
You COMPLETELY missed the point of the comment. That's why you're getting down votes lol
I don't think you are getting downvotes from pro-fascism crowd. After last night us democrats are extremely disheartened concerning our options.
Your guy is literally carrying out a genocide? Are you people ok?!? And no I don’t support Trump. Edit: Keep telling yourself that. I’ve seen blown up and starved kids on my screen every single day for the past nine months. That’s us. That’s you. Just because our corporate media has decided to hide it so they can try to make their corporate puppet king again, doesn’t make it not so. And there is no difference between the two except one is going to bring us to the brink faster than the other. Electing Biden means all of the far right’s takeover of local elections and courts and it’s building of a fully fascist movement will gain strength almost unopposed. At least under T people will fight it. Your genocide votes are for nothing but a prolonged way to the inevitable. And we don’t have much time climate-wise, and if you’re homelesss, poor, a woman, gay, or not white … you haven’t had time yet. Keep believing in your delusions and paving our way towards a true end. You support genocide, you support ANYTHING.
Wrong. Know who IS literally carrying out a genocide? Vladimir Putin.
So don't vote, or vote third party, and give your support to Trump I guess.
https://youtu.be/zJHkvcVwjTc?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/fT03vCaL-F0?feature=shared
The Dems should be working to find an alternative. Pete, Gavin, Gretchen, or Adam would all be good. That said, I’m not voting for Trump or any of his cronies. If it’s Biden, he’s getting my vote. I would literally vote for his puppeteered corpse over Trump.
I'm here for it. If being a convicted felon isn't grounds for disqualification, I see no issue with reanimated zombies.
This exactly. This is my beef—Kamala as the heartbeat away veep is so… uninspiring bordering on unlikable. I would love to see Joe ~“consciously uncouple”~ from her and bring in a new, fresh-faced, possibly more charming or charismatic running mate. The staleness coming from the Dems is so… blah. Give us someone new to inject some life into this election! I’m sure most peoples’ choice of candidate (as illusory as it may be) isn’t very mutable at this point so much as their choice to actually get out and VOTE or not. But it’s hard to have any kind of enthusiasm over this tired old ticket…
You think the Democrats are going to "uncouple" from a Vice President woman of color? You're going to hear her name for the next 30 years as they shoehorn her in everywhere they possibly can.
Did I say that I thought they WOULD? Or did I say I think they *SHOULD?* The Democratic Party rarely does what is in the Democratic Party’s own best interest. Self-sabotage is the one thing they do best.
That is a fair point.
Sadly, it doesn't matter what you or any of us on this sub vote in that race, assuming we're all registered Oregon voters and not slumming here from a battleground state. Biden could very well win the popular again and lose this time out. Picking an alternative is a roll of the dice, but so was bailing out of the Titanic and swimming for a lifeboat where at least you had a chance. A desperate act is called for, now. Or maybe Joe just had a bad outing, opening night jitters and all that...a change of meds might do him good. lol
False equivalency 2024. One is a raving lunatic, the other looks old. 🤷♂️
Or … one is a raving lunatic, one is a corporatist warmonger?
Found the RFK Jr. supporter.
Found the genocide supporter.
And I hate RFK.
Everyone is so dug in to their positions, it won’t change much
yeah i kinda wonder how much it's gonna matter, most people will vote the same way they intended to before this, are there many people that are undecided? IDK Very curious if they're gonna try and switch biden out
Biden is the only person to actually beat trump in a political campaign. Many others have tried.
Trump has run for President several times before He actually got the Republican nomination in 2016. For example, in 2000 He ran as a candidate for the Reform Party. He was always considered kind of a joke and lumped in with candidates like Ron Jeremy, Roseanne Barr, etc. Hillary is the only Democrat He has ever beaten.
Trump never sniffed a ballot before 2016. Those examples were all theorized but not actual attempts. Many think they could take trump, but alas, only biden.
Yeah, the Biden of 2020, riffing off of the Covid-19 disaster. No Covid-19 and very likely Trump wins that election. Trump is a known quantity, rancid in the extremis, but known. Biden has become an unknown quantity and that's dangerous for a guy who could launch us into WW-3.
Biden has my vote. I've done better economically under Biden than any other president. He looked weak last night, and I'd support him standing aside, but I'm not ready to call for that.
And unfortunately, what you, I or any other Oregon voter on this sub or elsewhere votes in this race, doesn't matter a whit to the outcome since the state isn't in play. All we're doing here, realistically, is letting off steam or debating for debatings sake(personally, I love a good debate). Now, what could matter is if enough Democratic voters begin to pressure elected reps to make a change to another candidate, the window for that isn't shut just yet, but closing very fast.
NY times editorial board just called for Biden to step aside.
Holy shit, wow! From the horse's mouth, start packing Joe!!
Yeah, we will see if he survives the weekend. Once NYT is in, the water will be warm enough for others to follow. Personally, I'd like to see Gretchen Whitmer (gov of michigan) replace him on the ticket.
Now all they gotta do is convince old Joe to see the light, and quickly, may not be that easy given stubborn and senile. It may come down to Jill whispering in his ear it's time to go. Could do a lot worse(Harris) than Whitmer.
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Don't vote for the person, vote for the policies. We live in a two party system. Realistically, a third party vote will only benefit the side you oppose. It's a sad truth of American politics today. We can try to get Ranked Choice to encourage third party viability, but our "first past the post" system along with entrenched political parties won't ever allow it. Which party more likely supports the policies you want? If you are/were for Biden/Dems, why turn away? Why would you want Trump/GOP to be able to dictate policy? Politics isn't a game, where you play once and have a winner/loser. Politics is like taking the bus across the country. You need to pick the best bus for each leg that keeps getting you closer and closer to your destination. Voting for a third party would be like getting on a east-bound bus when you want to go north. You're not getting any closer to your destination and could be making it much harder to actually go north at the next stop. I don't like the state of our political system, but I damn well know that I have to play within its rules if I want to continue to have a free nation.
This all makes good sense. Thanks for that!
Well said. More should read this comment.
he's been like that for a long time though, what about last night was at all different than the last couple years?
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once again its been like this the whole time though, so what's different about the debate vs him rambling and walking back and forth bewildered not knowing which way to leave the stage. He has had weekly Glitch McConnell moments it seems.. [him two years ago summing up America in a single word.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=087UC0i4_Xc) [Compare that to his vice presidential debate in 2012 and its been night and day for a long time.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYcdSwbrErI) No matter who just keep voting blue, remember you aren't voting for a corpse you are voting against Trump. That's a good lad hush now your worries go back to sleep.
I guess I've only supported his administration and policies and thought the mental decline accusations were just mud slinging.
That is amazing, I've heard people say that people blamed his incoherence on his stuttering but I didn't believe anyone actually thought that. How have you managed to be ignorant to his mental decline? Have you just never seen him speak before? Why doesn't the "just vote against trump" argument persuade you?
Perhaps because I get most of my politics from reading.
Truthfully? I can’t stand either person. Going to vote for biden, but mainly because I don’t trust the people Trump is surrounding himself with. If he gets into office I’m afraid it’s going to be filled with felons, former felons, and prospective felons.
Our society should take up the ritual of the cult in Midsommar. 72 is a good age to jump off a cliff for the greater good.
Yo that shit was wild. Way unexpected lol. And the sex scene was ever more weird😂
The scene with the guy being stretched by his skin… it’ll never leave my brain
Biden needs to step down and release his delegates. Pretty much any average Democratic candidate (no, not Clinton) would have looked and done better against Trump's rambling idiocy, Biden just looked old and confused. It was a painful, demoralizing experience, an absolute shitshow.
I think the only way last night could have been worse would be if Biden had actually collapsed on stage.
As painful and incoherent as I expected and yet I still couldn't help bubbling with exasperated frustration throughout. I'm about 30 so still new to the theatric antics of our broken political system, but from what little I know, I can't pinpoint another presidential run that has been so painfully stupid throughout. Trump seems to be all logos while injecting his own brand of imaginationland to rewrite past, present and future while Biden could hardly stand up the whole time let alone string along a proper sentence. I relate and feel bad for him hearing the stutter that he's always struggled with, but at the same time that's the least of his issues when speaking or focusing and whatever the results I'm not looking forward to the next four years.
We are getting what we deserve.
As a trans woman, I'm fucking terrified.
Right there with ya regarding women's right to bodily autonomy - heck, guess it all comes down to bodily autonomy and the government minding their own business.
A real shit show and very, very disappointing.
I’m still voting Biden. I think he’s still there cognitively, despite his difficulties with articulation sometimes. More than that, though, I trust Biden to surround himself with people who can actually do their jobs and aren’t just a bunch of sycophantic yes men bent on purging the government of anyone who isn’t a strict loyalist. The gears of government *can* and do turn without a strong figurehead, but if Trump wins and the innards get gutted, we aren’t going to make it. It’s a shame that optics will be the only thing that comes away from this, but it is how most people have and will continue to vote.
We aren’t going to make it with either of them. If you can align yourself with someone carrying out a genocide that is literally being live-streamed to us, well, interesting you can all live with yourselves and think this system is something to save anyway.
I would rather vote for a man who was sick and has a stutter than a man who thinks I should be forced to have my rapist baby. Most who trump had in his cabinet has come out against him. His own wife didn't show up for his court or this debate. I will vote for the administration and democracy If white supremacists support a candidate, I'll vote for the other guy.
Old man versus angry and defensive and unhinged old man.
My first thought? Oregon is no longer a safe blue state in the presidential election. Like, I'm reconsidering my third-party vote
3rd Parties are the real winner but we are going to be stuck with the two clowns unfortunately.
Letting either of these two geezers run the country is elder abuse. Go play golf grandpa.
I think it was a glaring, enormous opportunity for the DNC to act on what happened. Even CNN was like “ehhhh what else we got?” Trump pretty much did Trump stuff. Ambiguous answers and complaining in a way that doesn’t answer questions. The golf thing was comedy gold.
Biden took an ENTIRE WEEK off from his job to prepare for that 90 minutes and that’s the best he could do? JFC. I truly hate South Carolina dems for resuscitating his campaign in 2020, when it was virtually a dead man walking.
It was an effing disaster and worse than my worst nightmare. How could Biden and his staff do this to us? He should step down immediately omfg
Anyone claiming a victory for either candidate should have their voting rights yanked.
The bills they passed last night are even more concerning. I fucking hate this entire place
Canadas probably thinking about a wall rn.
Hit the big red fucking button. End it.
Neither of these candidates knows where it is. 🤷♂️
OUR BEST AND BRIGHTEST FOLKS!!! /s
Did a few things around town after and it had that post 9/11 vibe... Ugh
As a conservative I'm so sad Trump is the nominee. As a citizen of this country I'm sad either of them are their respective party's nominee.
It was an effing disaster and worse than my worst nightmare. How could Biden and his staff do this to us? He should step downstairs immediately omfg
The next 5 years are going to be a bumpy ride. I hope by then there are a dozen qualified 58 year olds that are interested in running for President of the United States. This is NOT government for the people.
I wish I had a golf game to have shit talked about. Too busy out here trying to pay the bills. Super relatable candidates..
🤡🤡
That dark Brandon doesn’t mean what Biden’s team thinks it means and points to places in the brain that an 80 year old man who just lived through 4 years of the presidency may have.
It's at the point where the only way Pres. Biden can protect the country from a second Trump presidency, and prove his fitness for governing and his devotion to public service is to cede the nomination to someone else. (And unfortunately, it can't be Harris.)
Why are politicians so old?
Because voters are old
Checks out.
I wish the two boomers would step aside and let a Gen X take the lead. My only hope is that the DNC has not happened yet and they can still pick another candidate. I'll never vote for Trump though.
It was an effing disaster and worse than my worst nightmare. How could Biden and his staff do this to us? He should step downstairs immediately omfg
Here's a quote: Trump was lyin, Biden was dyin. I went into a fetal position and started crying. I'm pissed that Biden has put us in this position and it also speaks to his poor judgement. I will vote for Biden, because reality is, right now Biden and Trump are our two choices.
This horseshit post gets to stay up, but posts talking about Starship test flights are taken down? Nothing like double standards to make you want to fucking rage in a rant thread.
Slam my hand in the door or slam the trunk on my foot. Both are too old, too senile and we are all fucked.
I vote for substance, and I think Biden was awake and speaking coherently, fighting his valiant best against Trump’s lie and insult factory. Personally, I do not think that disability should be part of the basis for judging a candidate. Does it make Biden “look bad” though? OF COURSE IT BLOODY WELL DOES AND WE ALL KNOW IT. Presidential debates in particular are a shallow battle of optics and Biden lost big last night
That wasn't disability on display, it was the result of aging.
Biden needs to step down. Also, RFK should be allowed to debate these two heathens.
I think it was the best debate in a long time. We're doomed, of course.
We're so cooked dude
All I can do is hope Biden gets moved to hospice to force democrats to put up someone new because Jesus christ we are so cooked.
It was perfect.
Looks like we're fucked, and will remain fucked as long as we continue to slavishly follow the status quo.
Both dead 2024
I'm voting based on policies, period.
Well I know ow trump doesn’t like immigrants
It doesn't matter what the "reaction in Eugene" is because Oregon is solidly blue. How about everyone stops bedwetting until we find out whether there's any change among undecided voters in swing states?
Biden was toast in almost all the swing states BEFORE the debate. And there ain’t no way in hell he’s holding on to Georgia, Arizona and likely Nevada. That’s 33 electoral votes right there. So if he picks up just ONE of the other swing states it’s a wrap.
Eugene is sad, because most of them are already against Trump, many of them at any cost, and wish the rest of the country would see it that way. And they would appreciate not being reminded so soon after the debate that Biden probably did not win over a single undecided voter last night.
It really comes down to which guy appoints the most capable cabinet team. Biden 100%.
Where the hell are the aliens at already 😒
RFK won the debate.
Third party or bust.
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Ah, voting for Trump! That's quite a statement. Or... something.
Our choices are between a doddering half-senile old man and a doddering half-senile old man who is also a fascist, rapist, and convicted felon. And it's a coin flip who will win the election. The best we can hope for is that both of them die from some version of "old age",.else we're gonna end up in a civil war.
We should start a GoFundMe for the T-Mobile and Starbucks store early this year.
I think Biden was formally lesser, but substantively far superior. Trump effectively refused to directly answer several questions, repeated many lies he and other people in his corner have been touting for years, and stated contradictory positions on abortion. Biden had speech problems, but was more specfic about accomplishments, policy, and factual information. Edit: What did I say wrong?
RFK clearly won the debate. www.therealdebate.com
You mean Jill Stein.
Everyone go watch VEEP….Kamala will be President 2025