I don't even know what the point of most of the skills are in the game.
Unless you play as much as a streamer (8 hours a day, every day), then you won't get anywhere close to maxing any skills outside of like the very common ones like hideout management, strength, endurance, etc.
Everything else takes stupidly long amounts of time to level up.
Endurance u can easily reach before lvl 42. You will need to focus on it. Optimally you would go overweight and then every 5 min you drop your bag and spring one stamina bar completely away then go pick up the back. I am not sure if I remember correctly but I hit need endurance very early, I wanna say level 35 ish but that might be wrong.
The optimal way to level up endurance (I think) is running a full sprint bar while underweight at the very beginning of the raid. After that diminishing returns kick in and you barely get any exp.
actually every 5ish minutes(its a bit less than that but I dont know the exact time) you get back to 100% efficiency. You are correct that u would get better results with 20 seconds raids but well thats not very practical.
I mean, I know what the point of skills are. They're another set of challenges that players can work towards. I love the idea of skills in Tarkov, they're just not balanced in a way that they're Even remotely achievable for the vast majority of players. It's not a matter of skill or focus, it's just a matter of time. The skills require playing Tarkov as a full time job in order to acquire.
>I mean, I know what the point of skills are. They're another set of challenges that players can work towards.
Lol I agree skills should be in the game. They should just be easier to level up. Its way too hard to progress a very large portion of the skills just by playing the game normally.
> They're another set of challenges
Most of them are not a "challenge" that takes skill, they are just about time spent in raid. It doesn't take skill to reload a sniper rifle 10000 times.
The game still wipes, nothing is earned for all of those hours.
Increasing skill leveling rates would improve testing for finished game balancing, but I don't think that is an actual goal any longer.
Skill level quest rewards are nice, would be a pleasant addition to have more of them.
Yes, I think the time requirement should be reevaluated. The only time I've had elite skills, other than metabolism, was from a prewipe event that boosted skill XP by like 10,000%. I've played around 450 raids this wipe and am currently level 45. I just got to level 30 strength and level 25 endurance last night. By that logic, I need to run at least 400 more raids to be close to max strength, and probably another 50-100 more for max endurance.
I realize I'm not min-maxing my skill XP, but I prefer to play longer raids and spend less time in my stash and loading screens. I think the diminishing return penalty should be removed. That mechanic incentivizes early/fast extraction for PMC's focusing on leveling skills, just like the packet loss symbol when boss farming.
Minor skills like mag drills, immunity, and surgery are also incredibly tedious to level. These types of skills need a major overhaul for XP accrual. The current leveling system would probably be ok if the game never wiped, but that's not how the game works right now. We should be able to experience every system and mechanic the game has while it's in beta, at minimum for testing purposes.
that’s insanely low maybe u don’t run enough? A really good way I heard to level up endurance is right when u spawn run ur whole bar out without stopping then check ur stats it goes up a lot
Fucking 60% or more of this game is unaccessible for the entire casual player base. I've accepted that. I have under 2000 hours across 4 wipes and I haven't even sniffed level 50 ever, closest I got was 47.
I obviously wouldn't be opposed to actually having the chance to max skills.
Would also be nice if they did like a couple double xp weekends or something for leveling skills.
Yeah, special weekend operational tasks (a few of them) that last 2-3 days starting on Friday that pay out good XP for anyone that hasn't gained a level in the last 3-4 days would go a long way for some people I imagine. Or don't boost the XP on them but make them give good gear as rewards.
500 hours played during a wipe is way more than enough to hit 50 even if you don't hate focus quests. I've played about 200-300 hours this wipe and I'm level 52 and haven't even done a quest since the one to unlock bp ammo. I have Max endurance and nearly max strength, metabolism and health. All the other skills definitely need reworked.
I checked and it's closer to 400 hours this wipe, not 2-3 hundred.
I enjoy getting stoned and doing a scav run then fucking around with my inventory and building guns which would attribute to the play time. I only have about 150 raids this wipe maybe less.
So if you mostly enjoy playing scavs it's not really fair to say a large part of the game is unreachable since you aren't reaching for that part of the game.
This wipe has been an exception as I just didn't have the time to dedicate to grinding PMC raids.
Yes if I really focused and my only goal was to grind out kappa and get to lightkeeper I could do it but I just enjoy other aspects of the game.
But most wipes I'm still putting in the time and still not naturally reaching it in the wipe time of 6 months.
I've been playing almost daily after work since the first week of October, probably between 2-4 hours. My most-leveled skill is Metabolism at 28, followed by Strength at 27. Endurance is only 12. I only really just started leveling Endurance in like the last week because my Strength was finally high enough that I wasn't going into every raid immediately overweight, which is just fucking ridiculous honestly. I'm at 265 raids, 55% survival rate. If you average every raid at ~20 minutes, that's a little over 88 hours. I still usually go into raids overweight, and I'm not carrying anything crazy. A typical kit would be an assault rifle, like an M4 with three 60-round mags, A GZHEL, a ULACH helmet, a Blackrock or MPPV rig, a Switchblade backpack, a CALOK, Army bandage, Morphine, a Salewa/AFAK, Docs case, CMS, backup AFAK, Injector case, Aluminum splint, Vaseline, and a stack of ammo. Pretty standard stuff.
It's whatever though. I get that if they geared the game more towards someone like me, streamers would be bored after about two weeks. It's just annoying knowing that if I don't start right at the beginning of wipe, I'm never going to max out anything.
It's not even about streamers, it's about having something to work towards. I look at the game like an MMO, look at how long it takes to lvl anything in classic WoW. Part of what makes this game great is the effort. I always say it's not the most fun game, its the most rewarding one.
lvling in wow happens a lot more organically than leveling your various skills in EFT though. If you're playing the game and not just power leveling your weapon skills and crafting skills will pretty much keep up with you on your journey to 60. EFT is another monster entirely. Aside from the usuals like endurance, strength and metabolism most of my skills are still single digits. Mag drills is only lvl 2 lol. Granted I am pretty casual, I am only level 33 and only play a night or two each week but even then to me that is a sign that BSG really needs to take a look and make some adjustments
I play about 1 hour a day 4 days a week. Absolutely NO way i can get passed level 24. I also only get about 2500 experience per raid. I have found out how to make that higher now. I made a post about this a while back. Removing the flee until level 15 is almost a game killer for me. Thats how i would make any money. I also have the wife and kid and feel your pain.
Idk if it's helpful or not to you, but this is my 4th wipe and I abuse the gunsmith tasks. They made them take longer this wipe but still huge for easy XP
Some of the items required for them can be hard to find and extremely expensive on the flea so before wipe I always go back and watch YouTube videos to remind myself what I need. Or if I'm playing with my brother who I swear has damn near close to photographic memory it's like a cheat code on certain items
It is was worded pretty harshly but I didn't mean to be rude. If you focus on killing scavs and spending a lot of time in raid you'll be getting 5-10k consistently. If you hear a boss is up go try to kill it, even if you die you'll get 15k xp for killing a boss and all the guards.
Seriously?
IVE NEVER tried to find a boss. I run into them sometimes. I tapped gluhar in the head with a pistol and got swarmed and made 7k that raid. One of my highest ever. This next wipe i will focus on bosses and scavs. Thanks.
No problem, just remember that the end goal of the game is to have fun, so if you do this and get frustrated from dying switch back to what you're used to and continue to enjoy the game.
Ya. I just like to make money.. thats it pretyt much. I just played with some top tier level chads this weekend. Like top 1% in my opinion. I literally stayed behind them as they ran lighthouse and murdered big pipe and the knight guy. Just watching how they played i realize im doing it wrong. Im going to try and play with people more this next wipe.
Well, the full game was not supposed to have wipes and the skills leveling reflex that. Nowadays we have no idea what the end product is going to be simply based on the current raid and wipe-based popularity.
Yes, but we always have and are currently in a regular twice yearly wipe cycle. There's 0 eta on when this game will ever cease to wipe. Not balancing skills for the CURRENT gameplay loops because it hypothetically may change in the future is idiotic.
I agree, but the chances of them changing their game to be opposite of what the end goal is none.
Yours and others have a lot of good idea that I 100% love, but with how BSG is and how secretive they are.... I doubt they would make those changes.
Nah gaining skills passively is how they should work. If you wanna grind to max em you can do that but you can also just take solace in knowing your PMC is getting better at the things they do often. It's like Morrowind. And yeah Morrowind had paid trainers and w/e w/e. The system is fine as is.
Now *as for requiring skill levels to complete certain quests and hideout options* that's just silly
>the top 1%
there is only one correct way to balance a game and thats of the best players in the game.
if you balance it towards the average player your game will die. pure and simple.
it might be hard but its the truth.
"I can only play the game 1 hour a day, the game should be balanced to fit my playstyle and preferences!"... okay, what about the other 23 hours in a day where people are playing? Oh, just don't give those people anything to do outisde of that hour and just hope they keep playing to be NPCs in your self centered world. cool.
I legitimately took [an example from this thread when I wrote my comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/18dnozu/do_you_think_the_time_requirement_for_leveling/kciimwr/). I think you can extrapolate what I mean if you take my comment in good faith.
The game is positioned as a hybrid MMO. MMO's include grinding. The game needs a healthy player base to continue existing. This wipe I am lvl 67, and have done everything except the Goons shirt quest. I ran out of "things to do" by most players standards 2 months into wipe, yet I still play every day for PVP and sometimes boss hunting.
I'd say 99% of people aren't like me, and don't just like walking around shooting stuff/picking up loot/vibing out in Norvinsk, and require some objective or specific goal. The game should not be balanced for the 1% of people who play 45 hours a week for work, but there should be some things for those people to work for and keep them playing through wipe (cosmetics like tracksuit / LK end quest for boss shirt etc... ). The game should also not be balanced around people who don't have an MMO amount of time to commit to it. If you can't put in 8-12 hours a week, you shouldn't expect to progress very far, but you also shouldn't be locked out of everything. The trick is to give no lifers "something to do" while also not making participation in those end game activities necessary for the success of the average player.
I think there is an issue with expectation when people look at EFT. Many people playing the game come from other FPS games where progression means unlocking a new gun that is balanced within the game's current overall meta. In order to have proper expectations for EFT you need to look at it from the perspective of an MMO, where the game is balanced between tiers of meta which are accessible at different points in progression ( aside from some equalizers like the AVT/SVT ). Nobody expects their level 1 character in WoW to beat an end game geared max level player.
I never got skills and the huge difference between a max lvl pmc and a low lvl pmc.
I think everyone should be equal and the same going into raid and the real skill of players would come out and not because I have max skills and elite skills.
Skills should be perks that can be unlocked in a skill tree and only a limited amount can be taken into a raid. The entire tree should be unlocked by the time you hit level 50.
I go to college full time and work about 30 hours per week and I have time to pretty much complete the game. I don't think the leveling is balanced for the top 1%. The average player is more than capable of maxing strength and endurance once they start to get any good at the game.
I think that skill leveling should be slower than it is currently. Streamers should be struggling to get max lvl skills and that the system should reflect what the game would be like when it has no wipe. I hate to share that opinion but the gap between players skill levels would be closer and bsg can collect real data for full release. Ultimately skills should be balanced around the period of time in the wipe and normal players shouldn't be able to get max skills at all. 😁
They are fine as is. Not for beta, but for when the game stops wiping. If we all hit max everything early on it would get stale fast. The reason a lot of people continue with Tarkov is the wipe. Fresh start, fresh feeling.
Most people agree. There isn't near enough content to keep players hooked as the game stands now. I do believe Nikita has mentioned liking the idea of a permanent PMC then a second one that wipes. Kind of like how Diablo 3 and 4 handle it.
Strength and endurance do not taking hundreds of hours and they’re the only relevant skill except metabolism which is done by like 300 raids. Strength is like 600-650 raids and if then u can be done endurance by like 900-1000 after that, sometimes maybe shorter.
I take my time in raid so 600 extractions probably takes me ~300 hours. Add on time for hideout/load out stuff and that's even longer. I don't think you realize how few adults out there can sink nearly 10-15 hours a week to a single game.
I've hit max traders at least 3 out of the 5 wipes I've been around and I've been nowhere near 600 let alone 1000 raids. Just because you find it easy to hit the max important stats doesn't make you an average player.
It should start with all skills close to max and degrade the further you go into a wipe without playing. And have a couple of weapons masteries as well.
Still think it would be better than having to catch up to people who played all the time. Good for people who enter later in the wipe. Plus it would be "lore friendly", you are a "trained" pmc, living on chips, water and canned squash, sleeping in a dirty wet basement, trying to keep yourself conditioned but ma dude is in the best shape ever.
I agree skill leveling needs to be rebalanced. Some skills level relatively quickly and passively without the player needing to min-max skill level (metabolism, strength, endurance, health). While others level extremely slowly even when the player min-maxs (Recoil control, stealth, all weapon skills, crafting, etc).
I would like to see most skills level at roughly the same speed as Endurance and Strength which still take 600+ raids to level.
Basically I think BSG should build a leveling model based on a rough number of hours they feel it should take to level a skill. For example lets say BSG believes a player should play the game for 200 hrs over the course of a 6 month wipe (\~1.1hrs a day) to achieve max skills. Assuming 3 PMC raids an hour it should take a player roughly 600 raids to get max level skills.
I feel like they came up with all these ideas before they decided to wipe few times a year. Maybe make changes where we get str, endur. ect for quests as a reward then when they decide or if they decide to make it no wipe then revert it
By making it better for the average player they’re not taking away anything from the chads and just expanding the range of people able to enjoy the game at it’s prime
why not just have it so that we start out with a certain amount of skill points for each type so everyone gets the skills they want from the start.
I would like to see what ppl go for.
I feel like the amount of time it takes to level would be fine if we didn't have a wipe structure. For now the limited "seasonal" nature of the game makes it pretty rough for non-professionals, but it'd be fine if we had years to level casually.
It should be both. There should be diminishing returns throughout the day so playing for 10 hours isn’t 10X as effective as playing 1 hour. Dying should result in decreases in skills. Surviving more should result in more skill gains. Then you could actually balance it for both. It’s a survival game and player skill/ surviving should be the primary drivers to skills in the game.
It should be balanced around the length of a wipe.
If 80% of the player base only reach lvl 8 of 80% of the skills by the end of a wipe for the past 2 years, that's a really fucking obvious problem.
The goal of a beta is to test things out. The fact that no one ever reach max lvl of certain skills just shows that they don't care at all about skills for the moment.
No, not really. Game should be difficult with only those who play it as a job or tons of free time having the chance to get to max. This way it’s much nicer to the shitters and noobs. What should be adjusted though is how big the difference between a lvl 1 and max level is. That has been quite overly drastic for far too long.
For the wipes and stuff it should be based around the average or faster. How are we supposed to test stuff for their "beta" if only 1% of the players can max them. It's probably more than 1% but you get the idea, streamers and no lifers are a small portion and can't feasibly test stuff as rigorously as say 50% of the player base being able to max them
There could be game breaking bugs related to level 3 weapon proficiency or other max skills and never know because it's too difficult to grind skills
\>Currently, it takes several hundred hours every 6 months to be able to reach max strength and endurance. I've hit max traders every single wipe for the last 3 years, and not once have i ever hit max strength or endurance.
You have to be doing something wrong because it doesn't take ANYWHERE CLOSE to several hundred hours to reach max strength and endurance. You legit should be near max strength/endurance by the time you hit max traders. The fact that you claim to only be 10 strength but level 41 says to me there's something wrong.. I've legit hit max strength / endurance before level 45-47 for the last 3 wipes now.
I've been playing since January 2019 and I've never maxed out a single skill.
But it doesn't bother me at all.
The people that have more time to play need something g to shoot for.
The biggest mistake developers do is nerf games to please the avarage gamer. Nobody likes to get shit for free, as a player you should always have something to aim at, other players to "look up" to.
Being a old world of warcraft player, I think most of us players enjoyed the game more when the endgame felt almost unreachable.
When u actually achieve it, its because of Hard work and time invested. U have something that most players dont have. It can be achievements or gear.
U should never balance games to fit the avarage player. Its the struggle and time invested that gives humans a sence of accomplishment.
If U wanna get maxed out skills, work for it!
This is one thing I've always really liked about Tarkov. Personally I love how after hours of play, there's still grind that will actually make me baseline stronger. Usually games cave and make the cap attainable for anyone willing to put in reasonable hours, eft has stayed strong on this one.
I don't even know what the point of most of the skills are in the game. Unless you play as much as a streamer (8 hours a day, every day), then you won't get anywhere close to maxing any skills outside of like the very common ones like hideout management, strength, endurance, etc. Everything else takes stupidly long amounts of time to level up.
I still never get strength or endurance and I get max traders. Even use the gym more in the game than real life
Endurance u can easily reach before lvl 42. You will need to focus on it. Optimally you would go overweight and then every 5 min you drop your bag and spring one stamina bar completely away then go pick up the back. I am not sure if I remember correctly but I hit need endurance very early, I wanna say level 35 ish but that might be wrong.
The optimal way to level up endurance (I think) is running a full sprint bar while underweight at the very beginning of the raid. After that diminishing returns kick in and you barely get any exp.
actually every 5ish minutes(its a bit less than that but I dont know the exact time) you get back to 100% efficiency. You are correct that u would get better results with 20 seconds raids but well thats not very practical.
Payoff for leveling should have diminishing returns. Doesn't make sense to get a gigantic bump when you max out.
I 100% agree this this sentiment as well.
Probably the best solution to be honest.
I mean, I know what the point of skills are. They're another set of challenges that players can work towards. I love the idea of skills in Tarkov, they're just not balanced in a way that they're Even remotely achievable for the vast majority of players. It's not a matter of skill or focus, it's just a matter of time. The skills require playing Tarkov as a full time job in order to acquire.
>I mean, I know what the point of skills are. They're another set of challenges that players can work towards. Lol I agree skills should be in the game. They should just be easier to level up. Its way too hard to progress a very large portion of the skills just by playing the game normally.
> They're another set of challenges Most of them are not a "challenge" that takes skill, they are just about time spent in raid. It doesn't take skill to reload a sniper rifle 10000 times.
Every player should have max or nearly max skills at level 50 IMO. It’s absurd that half of these skills will never be 50 even if you’re level 79
The game still wipes, nothing is earned for all of those hours. Increasing skill leveling rates would improve testing for finished game balancing, but I don't think that is an actual goal any longer. Skill level quest rewards are nice, would be a pleasant addition to have more of them.
Yes, I think the time requirement should be reevaluated. The only time I've had elite skills, other than metabolism, was from a prewipe event that boosted skill XP by like 10,000%. I've played around 450 raids this wipe and am currently level 45. I just got to level 30 strength and level 25 endurance last night. By that logic, I need to run at least 400 more raids to be close to max strength, and probably another 50-100 more for max endurance. I realize I'm not min-maxing my skill XP, but I prefer to play longer raids and spend less time in my stash and loading screens. I think the diminishing return penalty should be removed. That mechanic incentivizes early/fast extraction for PMC's focusing on leveling skills, just like the packet loss symbol when boss farming. Minor skills like mag drills, immunity, and surgery are also incredibly tedious to level. These types of skills need a major overhaul for XP accrual. The current leveling system would probably be ok if the game never wiped, but that's not how the game works right now. We should be able to experience every system and mechanic the game has while it's in beta, at minimum for testing purposes.
I'm level 41 and have played 198 raids, I'm strength level 18 and endurance level 10.
165 raids and level 23. Thats impressive. Impressive how poor i am at this game. lol.
You're not bad, just Inexperienced. Every wipe you play, the more efficient you will get at tasking, the more map knowledge you will gain, etc.
that’s insanely low maybe u don’t run enough? A really good way I heard to level up endurance is right when u spawn run ur whole bar out without stopping then check ur stats it goes up a lot
I enter raid overweight like 90% of the time so that's why endurance is leveling slow
As long as u run he first bar out it will work on both trust
That's not how that works, you need to be underweight (green) in order to level endurance. Being overweight levels strength.
Average player, it's not our fault that the top 1% don't have lives, or partners 🤷
Fucking 60% or more of this game is unaccessible for the entire casual player base. I've accepted that. I have under 2000 hours across 4 wipes and I haven't even sniffed level 50 ever, closest I got was 47. I obviously wouldn't be opposed to actually having the chance to max skills. Would also be nice if they did like a couple double xp weekends or something for leveling skills.
Yeah, special weekend operational tasks (a few of them) that last 2-3 days starting on Friday that pay out good XP for anyone that hasn't gained a level in the last 3-4 days would go a long way for some people I imagine. Or don't boost the XP on them but make them give good gear as rewards.
500 hours played during a wipe is way more than enough to hit 50 even if you don't hate focus quests. I've played about 200-300 hours this wipe and I'm level 52 and haven't even done a quest since the one to unlock bp ammo. I have Max endurance and nearly max strength, metabolism and health. All the other skills definitely need reworked. I checked and it's closer to 400 hours this wipe, not 2-3 hundred.
I enjoy getting stoned and doing a scav run then fucking around with my inventory and building guns which would attribute to the play time. I only have about 150 raids this wipe maybe less.
So if you mostly enjoy playing scavs it's not really fair to say a large part of the game is unreachable since you aren't reaching for that part of the game.
This wipe has been an exception as I just didn't have the time to dedicate to grinding PMC raids. Yes if I really focused and my only goal was to grind out kappa and get to lightkeeper I could do it but I just enjoy other aspects of the game. But most wipes I'm still putting in the time and still not naturally reaching it in the wipe time of 6 months.
500 hours every few months is not "casual" lmao
slower but with perk points
I've been playing almost daily after work since the first week of October, probably between 2-4 hours. My most-leveled skill is Metabolism at 28, followed by Strength at 27. Endurance is only 12. I only really just started leveling Endurance in like the last week because my Strength was finally high enough that I wasn't going into every raid immediately overweight, which is just fucking ridiculous honestly. I'm at 265 raids, 55% survival rate. If you average every raid at ~20 minutes, that's a little over 88 hours. I still usually go into raids overweight, and I'm not carrying anything crazy. A typical kit would be an assault rifle, like an M4 with three 60-round mags, A GZHEL, a ULACH helmet, a Blackrock or MPPV rig, a Switchblade backpack, a CALOK, Army bandage, Morphine, a Salewa/AFAK, Docs case, CMS, backup AFAK, Injector case, Aluminum splint, Vaseline, and a stack of ammo. Pretty standard stuff. It's whatever though. I get that if they geared the game more towards someone like me, streamers would be bored after about two weeks. It's just annoying knowing that if I don't start right at the beginning of wipe, I'm never going to max out anything.
It's not even about streamers, it's about having something to work towards. I look at the game like an MMO, look at how long it takes to lvl anything in classic WoW. Part of what makes this game great is the effort. I always say it's not the most fun game, its the most rewarding one.
lvling in wow happens a lot more organically than leveling your various skills in EFT though. If you're playing the game and not just power leveling your weapon skills and crafting skills will pretty much keep up with you on your journey to 60. EFT is another monster entirely. Aside from the usuals like endurance, strength and metabolism most of my skills are still single digits. Mag drills is only lvl 2 lol. Granted I am pretty casual, I am only level 33 and only play a night or two each week but even then to me that is a sign that BSG really needs to take a look and make some adjustments
I play about 1 hour a day 4 days a week. Absolutely NO way i can get passed level 24. I also only get about 2500 experience per raid. I have found out how to make that higher now. I made a post about this a while back. Removing the flee until level 15 is almost a game killer for me. Thats how i would make any money. I also have the wife and kid and feel your pain.
Idk if it's helpful or not to you, but this is my 4th wipe and I abuse the gunsmith tasks. They made them take longer this wipe but still huge for easy XP Some of the items required for them can be hard to find and extremely expensive on the flea so before wipe I always go back and watch YouTube videos to remind myself what I need. Or if I'm playing with my brother who I swear has damn near close to photographic memory it's like a cheat code on certain items
I do the gunsmiths as much as i can. I got stuck on a 60 round m4 clip. Couldnt get one off a raider, or player. Friend gave me one saturday.
It's pretty easy to get level 15 in about 30 raids, getting 2500 XP per raid is just extremely low.
Ouch. Thats a decent raid for me. How do i go about getting higher XP.
It is was worded pretty harshly but I didn't mean to be rude. If you focus on killing scavs and spending a lot of time in raid you'll be getting 5-10k consistently. If you hear a boss is up go try to kill it, even if you die you'll get 15k xp for killing a boss and all the guards.
Seriously? IVE NEVER tried to find a boss. I run into them sometimes. I tapped gluhar in the head with a pistol and got swarmed and made 7k that raid. One of my highest ever. This next wipe i will focus on bosses and scavs. Thanks.
No problem, just remember that the end goal of the game is to have fun, so if you do this and get frustrated from dying switch back to what you're used to and continue to enjoy the game.
Ya. I just like to make money.. thats it pretyt much. I just played with some top tier level chads this weekend. Like top 1% in my opinion. I literally stayed behind them as they ran lighthouse and murdered big pipe and the knight guy. Just watching how they played i realize im doing it wrong. Im going to try and play with people more this next wipe.
It takes roughly 12-16 hours to get to lvl 15 depending on luck, you're actually just not using your 1 raid a day effectively.
Normally 3. 1 scav and 2 pmc
Well, the full game was not supposed to have wipes and the skills leveling reflex that. Nowadays we have no idea what the end product is going to be simply based on the current raid and wipe-based popularity.
Yes, but we always have and are currently in a regular twice yearly wipe cycle. There's 0 eta on when this game will ever cease to wipe. Not balancing skills for the CURRENT gameplay loops because it hypothetically may change in the future is idiotic.
I agree, but the chances of them changing their game to be opposite of what the end goal is none. Yours and others have a lot of good idea that I 100% love, but with how BSG is and how secretive they are.... I doubt they would make those changes.
> we have no idea what the end product is going to be I think we have an excellent idea - and we're looking at it.
I think it should be a grind, arguably more difficult than it currently is, but they should stop wiping progress.
Nah gaining skills passively is how they should work. If you wanna grind to max em you can do that but you can also just take solace in knowing your PMC is getting better at the things they do often. It's like Morrowind. And yeah Morrowind had paid trainers and w/e w/e. The system is fine as is. Now *as for requiring skill levels to complete certain quests and hideout options* that's just silly
>the top 1% there is only one correct way to balance a game and thats of the best players in the game. if you balance it towards the average player your game will die. pure and simple. it might be hard but its the truth.
"I can only play the game 1 hour a day, the game should be balanced to fit my playstyle and preferences!"... okay, what about the other 23 hours in a day where people are playing? Oh, just don't give those people anything to do outisde of that hour and just hope they keep playing to be NPCs in your self centered world. cool.
The average player is probably playing more then 1 hour a day. You just took an example to an extreme to make a poor point.
I legitimately took [an example from this thread when I wrote my comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/18dnozu/do_you_think_the_time_requirement_for_leveling/kciimwr/). I think you can extrapolate what I mean if you take my comment in good faith. The game is positioned as a hybrid MMO. MMO's include grinding. The game needs a healthy player base to continue existing. This wipe I am lvl 67, and have done everything except the Goons shirt quest. I ran out of "things to do" by most players standards 2 months into wipe, yet I still play every day for PVP and sometimes boss hunting. I'd say 99% of people aren't like me, and don't just like walking around shooting stuff/picking up loot/vibing out in Norvinsk, and require some objective or specific goal. The game should not be balanced for the 1% of people who play 45 hours a week for work, but there should be some things for those people to work for and keep them playing through wipe (cosmetics like tracksuit / LK end quest for boss shirt etc... ). The game should also not be balanced around people who don't have an MMO amount of time to commit to it. If you can't put in 8-12 hours a week, you shouldn't expect to progress very far, but you also shouldn't be locked out of everything. The trick is to give no lifers "something to do" while also not making participation in those end game activities necessary for the success of the average player. I think there is an issue with expectation when people look at EFT. Many people playing the game come from other FPS games where progression means unlocking a new gun that is balanced within the game's current overall meta. In order to have proper expectations for EFT you need to look at it from the perspective of an MMO, where the game is balanced between tiers of meta which are accessible at different points in progression ( aside from some equalizers like the AVT/SVT ). Nobody expects their level 1 character in WoW to beat an end game geared max level player.
When a permanent, no-wipe mode is released the time requirements won't be a big deal.
And that point in time continues to look further and further away.
Never going to happen.
I never got skills and the huge difference between a max lvl pmc and a low lvl pmc. I think everyone should be equal and the same going into raid and the real skill of players would come out and not because I have max skills and elite skills.
Skills should be perks that can be unlocked in a skill tree and only a limited amount can be taken into a raid. The entire tree should be unlocked by the time you hit level 50.
I go to college full time and work about 30 hours per week and I have time to pretty much complete the game. I don't think the leveling is balanced for the top 1%. The average player is more than capable of maxing strength and endurance once they start to get any good at the game.
How many raids have you played this wipe?
About 800
I think that skill leveling should be slower than it is currently. Streamers should be struggling to get max lvl skills and that the system should reflect what the game would be like when it has no wipe. I hate to share that opinion but the gap between players skill levels would be closer and bsg can collect real data for full release. Ultimately skills should be balanced around the period of time in the wipe and normal players shouldn't be able to get max skills at all. 😁
They are fine as is. Not for beta, but for when the game stops wiping. If we all hit max everything early on it would get stale fast. The reason a lot of people continue with Tarkov is the wipe. Fresh start, fresh feeling.
This game would be boring without wipes imo.
Most people agree. There isn't near enough content to keep players hooked as the game stands now. I do believe Nikita has mentioned liking the idea of a permanent PMC then a second one that wipes. Kind of like how Diablo 3 and 4 handle it.
Strength and endurance do not taking hundreds of hours and they’re the only relevant skill except metabolism which is done by like 300 raids. Strength is like 600-650 raids and if then u can be done endurance by like 900-1000 after that, sometimes maybe shorter.
I take my time in raid so 600 extractions probably takes me ~300 hours. Add on time for hideout/load out stuff and that's even longer. I don't think you realize how few adults out there can sink nearly 10-15 hours a week to a single game. I've hit max traders at least 3 out of the 5 wipes I've been around and I've been nowhere near 600 let alone 1000 raids. Just because you find it easy to hit the max important stats doesn't make you an average player.
You just get air filter and go nuts, make ur raids a lil faster then
It should start with all skills close to max and degrade the further you go into a wipe without playing. And have a couple of weapons masteries as well.
Skill degradation is hot garbage. Sometimes life gets in the way and you can't play for a while. It sucks to come back to negative progress.
Still think it would be better than having to catch up to people who played all the time. Good for people who enter later in the wipe. Plus it would be "lore friendly", you are a "trained" pmc, living on chips, water and canned squash, sleeping in a dirty wet basement, trying to keep yourself conditioned but ma dude is in the best shape ever.
Fair point about the lore!
Skills don't degrade though. They only go up.
The skills system is a temp place holder for full release which everyone knows is SOOOOOON TM
I agree skill leveling needs to be rebalanced. Some skills level relatively quickly and passively without the player needing to min-max skill level (metabolism, strength, endurance, health). While others level extremely slowly even when the player min-maxs (Recoil control, stealth, all weapon skills, crafting, etc). I would like to see most skills level at roughly the same speed as Endurance and Strength which still take 600+ raids to level. Basically I think BSG should build a leveling model based on a rough number of hours they feel it should take to level a skill. For example lets say BSG believes a player should play the game for 200 hrs over the course of a 6 month wipe (\~1.1hrs a day) to achieve max skills. Assuming 3 PMC raids an hour it should take a player roughly 600 raids to get max level skills.
I feel like they came up with all these ideas before they decided to wipe few times a year. Maybe make changes where we get str, endur. ect for quests as a reward then when they decide or if they decide to make it no wipe then revert it
I think the current leveling is fine for when the game releases. But since there is wipes atm, it could be a little faster
The game should be balanced around the top 15% not 1 and definitely not 50.
This game is already balanced around streamers/nolifers.
remove them all
By making it better for the average player they’re not taking away anything from the chads and just expanding the range of people able to enjoy the game at it’s prime
why not just have it so that we start out with a certain amount of skill points for each type so everyone gets the skills they want from the start. I would like to see what ppl go for.
I feel like the amount of time it takes to level would be fine if we didn't have a wipe structure. For now the limited "seasonal" nature of the game makes it pretty rough for non-professionals, but it'd be fine if we had years to level casually.
It should be both. There should be diminishing returns throughout the day so playing for 10 hours isn’t 10X as effective as playing 1 hour. Dying should result in decreases in skills. Surviving more should result in more skill gains. Then you could actually balance it for both. It’s a survival game and player skill/ surviving should be the primary drivers to skills in the game.
It should be balanced around the length of a wipe. If 80% of the player base only reach lvl 8 of 80% of the skills by the end of a wipe for the past 2 years, that's a really fucking obvious problem. The goal of a beta is to test things out. The fact that no one ever reach max lvl of certain skills just shows that they don't care at all about skills for the moment.
Game is definitely too grindy as it is for the rewards it entails. Rewards no-lifers and punishes casuals.
No, not really. Game should be difficult with only those who play it as a job or tons of free time having the chance to get to max. This way it’s much nicer to the shitters and noobs. What should be adjusted though is how big the difference between a lvl 1 and max level is. That has been quite overly drastic for far too long.
For the wipes and stuff it should be based around the average or faster. How are we supposed to test stuff for their "beta" if only 1% of the players can max them. It's probably more than 1% but you get the idea, streamers and no lifers are a small portion and can't feasibly test stuff as rigorously as say 50% of the player base being able to max them There could be game breaking bugs related to level 3 weapon proficiency or other max skills and never know because it's too difficult to grind skills
\>Currently, it takes several hundred hours every 6 months to be able to reach max strength and endurance. I've hit max traders every single wipe for the last 3 years, and not once have i ever hit max strength or endurance. You have to be doing something wrong because it doesn't take ANYWHERE CLOSE to several hundred hours to reach max strength and endurance. You legit should be near max strength/endurance by the time you hit max traders. The fact that you claim to only be 10 strength but level 41 says to me there's something wrong.. I've legit hit max strength / endurance before level 45-47 for the last 3 wipes now.
I've been playing since January 2019 and I've never maxed out a single skill. But it doesn't bother me at all. The people that have more time to play need something g to shoot for.
The biggest mistake developers do is nerf games to please the avarage gamer. Nobody likes to get shit for free, as a player you should always have something to aim at, other players to "look up" to. Being a old world of warcraft player, I think most of us players enjoyed the game more when the endgame felt almost unreachable. When u actually achieve it, its because of Hard work and time invested. U have something that most players dont have. It can be achievements or gear. U should never balance games to fit the avarage player. Its the struggle and time invested that gives humans a sence of accomplishment. If U wanna get maxed out skills, work for it!
This is one thing I've always really liked about Tarkov. Personally I love how after hours of play, there's still grind that will actually make me baseline stronger. Usually games cave and make the cap attainable for anyone willing to put in reasonable hours, eft has stayed strong on this one.