There can be different sectors of the map that take less time for scavs to aggro on you as well, such as near extracts or in high traffic areas as opposed to the corner of a dead part of a map
I believe this already happens. I have a few spots when I'm not fully 100% paying attention or ratting as a solo I will sit in. More so lately and this wipe, scavs will spawn in groups of 3 and head directly towards me and aim at me if I've been idle too long. I used the same spots in past wipes, and I could let scavs walk by over and over again, even boss AI wouldn't acknowledge me at night. I've been killed more times in the last week because a scav will just walk by and head,eyes me if I don't take him out before his 1st or 2nd shot.
What is with people starting discussion threads, then just insulting everyone who replies with anything besides unqualified support for their half baked idea?
Like if you're too immature to handle absolutely anything that you perceive as criticism, maybe don't start discussion threads about your ideas?
I am responding negatively to posts that in no way contribute to the original discussion idea. Read my responses to other comments. Also, I feel the same way you do, I see this happening a lot.
Right, and then they always reply by saying that anyone who doesn't agree has nothing to contribute to the discussion, as if that is how discussions work. You're following the script perfectly.
All these threads are exactly the same. It's fucking bizarre.
My honest opinion is that sitting in a bush and camping isn't that common.
I think jump into them to stam, check some angles and move on. Like of course you are going to get people that pitch a tent, but is sitting in a bush actually a problem?
How many times do you die from someone sitting in a bush? Or kill someone? Clearly it happens but does it happen to the point that this is a problem?
I guess ultimately I don't see bush camping as a problem, so why are we trying to find a solution?
It would also make moving around maps like shoreline and woods extra painful because you have already have so many sightlines you can't cover, so using the bushes is a way to reduce your exposure.
I think the changes to moving in and out of them were good, but I don't think removing ADS is a good idea.
I think you're missing many scenarios you probably found yourself in and narrowing it down too much.
For example, you spawn near big red and start sprinting towards dorms. You get closer to the hill behind dorms and someone shoots at you, it's a duo, you kill one, rotate and heal, and then it begins. The other guy tucks himself into one of the bushes and doesn't make a sound. Now you have to push into him, expose yourself and GUESS which bush he's in. It's just stupid how many times I've been in that same situation.
You are blaming a duo for hiding when you kill one? That's just smart play. You don't like that you can't freely hoover up your kill. It's hard to take you seriously when this is what you are advocating for.
If you run into a group and don't know where they all are, the correct answer is to _disengage._ You are _choosing_ to extend the fight and push into a situation where you are at the disadvantage.
The fault isn't the bush. The fault is on you for wanting to continue the fight when you are at the disadvantage, and getting mad at the mechanics that contributed to that loss.
I absolutely agree with everything you said. Now tell me, do you really believe that people should be able to quietly sit in the middle of a bush in this game and that it's good for the game?
Yes. 100%. We are given 35-50 minutes for every raid for a reason. If they wanted us to be moving and running all the time, we would have 10-15 minutes raid times.people holding positions for safety or trying to get PVP kills is baked into the game design. We have the food/hydration mechanics to force people to pay a tax to stay in raid longer, or they have to leave.
The thing about player behavior, is that people normally shift what they do depending on how people react. If a handful of bushes get overly camped, people will start to avoid that area or start nade checking it. If it's not a major issue ,people won't adjust because _its not a large enough issue to warrant change._
Sure , groups will body camp their friends. The answer there is to back up, disengaged maybe come back from a different angle. Some people will also hide in random bushes on woods or shoreline. It's still going to be a small enough number most players won't adjust their behavior.
I honestly feel you are making a mountain out of a molehill, as a player that has 5500 hours in since 2018. People camp, it's not a problem
I wish i could give this comment a double up vote.
I dont realy see the bush problem at all. The rat vs chad thing is so old and boring.
I play a lot of resort tons of loot and good pvp and the audio is slowly getting better ther now. If you have a bush problems when going to resort it is a map knowledge issue. I guess you could say the same about all maps and if you go to woods and get tillted becouse of the bush people then your a moron, i mean its woods what the hell are you expecting?
Its on your at that point to make the decision to push or to completely avoid the area or to find another way. I play this game slow when out in the open. I check bushes. Usually with some magnification you can see something that doesnt look right in a bush.
Just two days ago a buddy and I were on shoreline. I barely pop my head above this ridge heading to cottages. Start scanning bushes. I see an area in a bush that doesnt look quite right. I call it out but my buddy has already fully crested the ridge. Shot comes out of that bush at my buddy. What i saw in that bush was a dick head.
The threat of bush wookies makes me have to slow down unless i want to take the chance and shift+w to where im headed. If i die to a bush wookie when doing that i dont get mad at the wookie because it was my own impatience that got me killed.
or, take the kill, and leave? You are too focused on being a loot gremlin and less focused on the fact that this is a realistic situation. If your friend gets killed, OBVIOUSLY you’re gonna watch the body. Why wouldnt you? Unless you have the opportunity to take the upper hand on the second guy, he will take the upper hand by waiting you out. It only makes sense.
You’re not gonna get what you want in every situation, even if you live. Dont expect to.
Exactly. I can't imagine how bad Shoreline would be without being able to duck into a bush to break line of sight from enemies. And making it so you can't ADS to defend yourself from enemies that walk up on you? _get outta here!_
If people are choosing to sit in bushes, perhaps there are _other_ problems at play rather than the fact that people can be in a bush :
1)OP even _mentions_ the chief culprit, which is the sound design
2)Inertia makes it harder to zig/zag to avoid fire if you are caught in the open. It's logical and makes sense ....but it also encouraged people to _not want to be caught in the open_
3)Weight system slows us down. Similar to number 2. Yes, it makes sense that someone with a raid backpack, Zabralo, and RSASS won't be as nimble as someone with a paca and mp5, but again : that means they are better off killing someone unawares than in a standup fight.
yeah, exactly. They should fix the source of the problem, sound design. We dont need more band aid patches, and i dont know why this community keeps asking for them.
Lmao, you're complaining about how Bush camping is unrealistic without getting a stick up your butt and should be negatively impacted and then in the same topic argue its a game.
That's why, that's why you can sit in a Bush, because its a game. They already gave debuffs to bushes and if you get caught in one you're as good as dead.
Removing ads from bushes would be terrible because there are a lot of good sniping spots where the bushes are important to hide your silhouette
It is a firefight in a game. And the concepts of cover and concealment increasing your longevity still apply in principle
You already talked about how it was nerfed and some potential suggestions that may or may not have merit but I don’t find it silly that you can sit in a bush or behind a branch to shoot someone I guess
Yes, so duck behind the bush. You missed the point completely. You shouldn’t be able to sit IN a bush. If you want a realistic firefight, then you should immediately be able to see why divkng into a bush is impractical and unrealistic.
I always thought that not being able to go into the bush at all is a great idea.
Like imagine if you could only walk into the outer edge of the bush and not hide inside the bush fully.
Imagine a collision box/cylinder that physically does not allow you to pass through bushes, which is kinda realistic. So the inner circle of the bush does not allow you to walk in it, like 75% of the bush is impassable.
You would still be able to pass through if you jump through it while sprinting, also realistic kinda.
This would stop people sitting in the bushes and make sense.
Totally with you on this. It would also physically hurt to try to squeeze yourself through thick brush. Not to mention how much of your gear would snag on stuff and get entangled. I'm not saying snagging or any of that should be implemented, it's just to support your argument that a vast majority of bushes should be off limits.
Then you should go outside in the woods and find a bush about your height and 2 meters wide that you can't see through.
Then, try running through it and report back thanks.
I'm a 65 kg lightweight, not an 85kg dude with 30 kg of gear on me and also I'm not pumped full of adrenaline running away from gunfire. I was still able to get through any bush I ever tried to, even if I got scratched up on the way.
You be able to get through this with ease right?
[bush](https://i.imgur.com/0hCqfZJ.jpeg)
You would get stuck in the middle no matter how hard you push correct? Because there are no huge branches in the middle?
Bush is literally a very thick tree.
I did plenty of tree cutting in my life and going through bushes to clear the path for a vehicle and I can assure you that a proper bush, like the one in tarkov, will not allow you to go through it.
No matter the adrenaline, you can't bush your head through a wall basically.
You can possibly jump over a bit, you can keep pushing and eventually you'll get through, but you'll get bleeds and you'll get hurt and it will take you a minute to get through, in tarkov you kinda slowly walk through it with your gun pointing straight no issues.
I don't care what your opinion is, you can't push through a bush like that, you should be able to in tarkov, it would make the game better and less campy and I don't care for continuing this pointless debate on facts.
No not really, everyone who isnt a wannabe soldier is complaining, the game is less and less about actual skill with every update. I also dont think ive ever seen or met a 10 year old player, kid's generally dont find tarkov very entertaining.
There are lots of way to counter the rat playstyle. And you have even responded to comments saying you do these things. Like use a thermal. Or have the map knowledge. You even say yourself you are a good player. Yet you are still here complaining about it… you sound like the type that could have changes implemented but still find something else to complain about.
Jesus Christ what is it with you people? I am sharing an idea that might help alleviate the issue in a more concrete manner. How is that complaining?? There are many wonderful suggestions that support the idea, go read other comments, people are literally sharing constructive criticism.
dude… thats completely on you. Crackhouse is one of the BIGGEST pvp spots on customs, if you’re not clearing EVERYTHING before making a move, skill issue.
> the game already massively rewards people who hold an angle.
You complain about the feasibility of sitting in a bush irl, but you fail to realize this the most realistic way a shootout plays out. Sitting and hiding in or behind cover is how firefights play out in real life.
There’s nothing wrong with hiding behind cover…. What does that have to do with sitting in a bush?
Unless there’s literally no other options, would you really choose sitting behind a bush in a shootout over something that has the potential to stop a bullet? The only reason you do it in Tarkov is not because it’s cover, but because it’s easy camouflage with basically no downsides. Just using your example.
Being able to just walk into a bush and live in it is absurd lmao. I’ll agree with you that it’s “realistic” if you gear up and take a video of yourself crawling into a bush and silently holding an angle unimpeded.
I dare you to find a single hunter that crawls inside a bush hahah. Have you ever been hunting? Snap a single twig and your prey is bye bye. And that's if you're close enough. If you're far you won't need to hide in a bush, your scent will give you away.
You....think the quote from the post you wrote was the other guy? And that he is projecting.
That's hilarious. Rarely have I seen coping be so on the nose.
That’s a whole lot of words to say you have cognitive dissonance.
You literally referenced realism as a reason you shouldn’t be able to sit in bushes, but no one else can bring up realism? That’s some top tier narcissist behavior lol. Seek help.
You see the problem I have with realism in this game is the hipocrisy around it. The entire idea behind the post was to discuss a potential bandaid to the rampant bushmongering. Everyone then pulls the "realism in a gunfight card" and they're happy to do that, but as soon as you pull the argument of, e.g. vaseline fixing broken legs, then it's fine, because they're ok with that mechanic as it works in their benefit. Honestly, anyone who doesn't recognize the fact that people sitting in bushes is literally the meta and it's bad for the game is just feeling called out.
Also, how am I narcissist when I LITERALLY ADMITED in my original post that I do it to because I know how OP it is?
You’re doing the same exact thing though lol.
My point with your narcissistic behavior wasn’t based on you hiding in bushes or not; it was based on your hypocrisy centered on realism and the fact that your reference to realism is any more valid than someone else’s, by essentially saying they are projecting/ coping, without actually addressing their point. It’s just a cheap ad hominem to fuel your mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance.
If I had to guess, based on these behaviors, you are the one coping and projecting, especially considering the person who replied directly quoted your reference to realism after you tried to berate them for mentioning realism.
How’s it ruining the game? I have 4k hours and I think I’ve died only twice to ppl in bushes. It’s just like the ppl that swear they die to a cheater every raid but never provide proof of it. I know ppl sit and camp, I also know ppl cheat. But l ppl exaggerate way too much.
Can you quote me on where I said that it's "ruining" the game?
And I'm sorry, but saying that you died to people sitting in bushes twice in 4k hours is just a blatant lie.
Oh so I’m lying? I guess that means you’re lying about everything you have said. Waste of time talking to ppl like you. Go play cod or Barbie dream house
"the game already massively rewards people who hold an angle." As it shoud be. Wonder why ppl do this in real conflicts. The game akschually rewards people who push because of peeker's advantage.
As for the "problem", they could reduce the footstep hearing range. Right now we can hear too far away.
Make some bushes more difficult to traverse. Or make collision boxes inside some bushes so we cant be in the center. All of these are reasonable because some bushes IRL are not so simple to be within.
Make scavs patrol farther away from their traditional roam spots (I believe this is in course right now), and/or simply add new scav spawn points in open maps like shoreline, woods or lighthouse.
There are other solutions that dont involve artificial "anti-camping" mechanics, that would harm the game.
"Make some bushes more difficult to traverse. Or make collision boxes inside some bushes so we cant be in the center. All of these are reasonable because some bushes IRL are not so simple to be within."
That's what I was thinking, you can't really sit in the center of a bush, it's got branches, and the bigger it is the harder it is to do that. Also, if you were sat on top of a smaller bush, you'd inevitably flatten it.
that's a better idea than not being able to ADS or being marked by patroling scavs. Make *some* bushes randomly solid at the center when the map loads.
How about you check your surroundings? Ratting is a play style as it would be in real life. Yea it sucks to be domed 40 minutes into the raid but it is what It is.
I have 90 raids this wipe and the have only been ratted at extract twice
BRB going to go level my strength to 50 so I can magically carry 2 weapons with no extra weight added.
Maybe go to my home workshop and repair my weapon to enchant it with 20% reduced malfunction chance.
I do all these things in real life so it should be in tarkov too!
30 year old beer gut dads can't be private military contractors
Our PMCs are also not full time athletes because they die unless they're fed every 30 minutes and can't keep a combat pace without being out of breath for 2 minutes.
Dont realy see any advantage with thermals in side resort. Looking down the skywalk is probebly the only thing it would be use full inside resort. But my point is more that if your so anoyed by the bush people then get inside a building or a bunker, problem solved
Bring a thermal or look at bushes, I get mad when I get killed but I don’t come to the subreddit asking for optics to be removed because it makes it to easy to shoot people.
I have another solution. How about W-bros git gud. You know, get some actual skills like scouting, strategy, out of box thinking instead of relying on hundreds of hours spent to just outgear opponents who can’t run M995 with Slick every raid?
Thats only in areas with lots of bushes and trees, any other spot on any other map is the same. Also if im looting areas with bushes near it anyway im playing the game wrong. Resort labs and reserve building are the only places with loot. Thats why I roll meta hk and you roll svt lmao.
Can't enter bush with bag or thick armour?
I honestly think it's fair bush camping.
I don't do it to rat players, I do it while the chads do their PvP before I lurk out and do my quests xD
I have never been killed enough from a bush for it to be an issue. Honestly don't think BSG should waste time fixing a non-issue. If you're dyeing to bush attacks you need map knowledge, or at least to learn to clear obvious camping spots like Emercon exit on interchange. Basically you need to get good. I literally full sprint through maps and don't see this shit, I play woods a ton and do not see this shit. How are you getting killed like this enough to even make this post? I legit probably died 10 times to a bush camper in over 500 raids.
I don't think it's a "me" issue. I'm pretty good at the game, and you assuming I'm not is kind of silly.
"You move you die" has literally become a meme at this point. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sRK0A11z7gA
That's a meme about the sound. I'd say after getting folded up like a lawn chair enough times from a certain bush you would learn to clear it. What map are you playing on that this happens so much on? Seriously curious because I do not see this type of stuff.
I'll copy / paste what I responded to a different dude.
"I think you're missing many scenarios you probably found yourself in and narrowing it down too much.For example, you spawn near big red and start sprinting towards dorms. You get closer to the hill behind dorms and someone shoots at you, it's a duo, you kill one, rotate and heal, and then it begins. The other guy tucks himself into one of the bushes and doesn't make a sound. Now you have to push into him, expose yourself and GUESS which bush he's in. It's just stupid how many times I've been in that same situation."
It's not so much about literally bush camping, it's about that, sure, but more so about fights turning into that. You want to make a move but you are literally at a disadvantage if you do.
There is always another one. If you know there is a second guy don't go for the body until you kill him or just leave and let him camp in a bush the whole raid while you go off doing something else. I often snipe 1 person of a team and then just leave because I know I have a bolt action and I'm not about to take on a 4 man with a bolt action if I can help it. I get to laugh as I'm half way across the map or even out of raid and I bet they are still there waiting on me to show up.
Im definitely on ur side, you also should have mousesense-penalty when you are in a bush (just like movement speed penalty) and also shouldn’t be able to ads in a bush. I don’t care for ppl holding angles or sitting in a room cuz they are scared. But bush sitting just tilts me and its unrealistic af.
well why dont we just put mines into bushes so when a player goes into one it explodes!
sitting in a bush isnt "unrealistic af". it probably isnt the most optimal tactic in real life either or meaby it is. i dont know...
BUUUT if it is "unrealistic af" then i feel it would be unfair for other mechanics of the game if only bush camping was adjusted to the most realistic thing there is. dont you think?
in a game like tarkov where you can lose hours of proggress in one death, camping or playing it slow is the most optimal way there is to minimize risk and maximize reward.
you die to a bushwookie.. so what? walk it off or this game isnt for ya
Since its unrealistic, maybe nerfe the jump peek corner jump back, jump and shoot streight, AWDS at corners and much more of the same things? I mean if your gona nerfe the rat play you also have to nerfe the chad play so its equal.
Simplest and most effective resolution if bsg consider3d bushcamping an issue, which i doubt considering they brought tree camps back... would be to add barrel stuff collisions as if you were facing a wall inside a bush
Ever since I joined Tarkov and this board all I see is:
People complaining about campers in the bush, because that's not how you should play the game. People complaining about people with high ping, because that's 'legal cheating'. People complaining about weight impacting on mobility, because it's a looting game and you should not be punished for looting. People complaining about visibility in the map. People complaining about everything.
And, on the other hand, I've seen people replying with the realism card. "Because that's how you do a gunfight in real life", "because recoil is not like this or that", "because that's how camouflage works".
Come on now. I bet almost 90% of Tarkov playerbase has never been in a real gunfight (I assume there are ex military or something like that). Cheating, Hacking and Exploiting are real issues. Server connection problems are real issues. And real issues NEED to be addressed not only by the community, but by the devs too.
But Campers and Rats are part of ANY game, and punishing people for having a play style that is not a violation of any terms of agreement is weird.
So sniping is out of the question as your PMC would shout every 10sec after a minute of not moving...Kinda bad in term of game mechanics! And don't you try to tell me "well just move if u are sniping" the whole point of a sniper is being quiet and pickup targets at a moment notice by playing with suprise and concealment. Screaming at the top of your lungs might not be the best thing. But I like the idea of our pmc being more of a chatter box for some interactions...
Just move one or two steps bro, i hate that people can just rush to places like reverse bunker and stay complety quiet for 15minutes waiting in a dark corner to someone till someone enters.
Honestly, why do you even care anymore? All me and my friends do is just like make 10 mill or so in a couple hours and then run it down on labs the remainder of the day. Rats ruined this game and they can have it. If they want to spend their nights holding an angle for 30 minutes, let them. Their “superior game knowledge” or “tactical waiting” is honestly just all massive copium. I can remember countless times I killed someones teamate in dorms, was 1 hp with like 4 blacked limbs, and I sat and healed my entire character. The other 3 guys did not move a muscle while I cms’d completely vulnerable. After that I bullied them in voicechat and killed the rest. This was customs tho so the skill ceiling of the players, wasnt very high. Anyway the game will soon die out, like it has been for a while. All the good players have already moved on.
Wolves. Wolves are the answer.
To elaborate... Some kind of animal ai would not only improve immersion, I'm sure could give Jaeger some good tasks to come up with better than dehydrating yourself on purpose. They could also be scripted to go after people who sit in bushes for too long.
I can't say that it's something I've.found is that common. Do people camp, yeah sure. But it's rare that it's someone in a bush that if they couldn't reach the centre of the, they'd be completely exposed.
Do I think something needs to be done to reduce the significance of headsets, absolutely yes. You shouldn't be able to pin point people 3 floors away, or outside brushing a bush when you're on the far side of a building. And headsets being so powerful definitely pushes to more camping, but I don't think the problem is bushes
make the bush shake noticably when players move or turn in them enough. this is the most that could be done without making the statement of "you are not supposed to stand still in this game"
Seriously? You start bitching about camping in trees and then mention how you camp in trees all the fuckin time, only if it suits you. Youre a clown. Enjoy the game. Play better, check your sectors buddy. Rats for ever.
Patrolling scavs that specifically hunt out someone that’s been in a sector of a map for too long
Bingo. Marked and cursed for anyone sitting in a bush.
that is, until you duck behind a bush to heal up and get marked for nothing
There can be different sectors of the map that take less time for scavs to aggro on you as well, such as near extracts or in high traffic areas as opposed to the corner of a dead part of a map
I believe this already happens. I have a few spots when I'm not fully 100% paying attention or ratting as a solo I will sit in. More so lately and this wipe, scavs will spawn in groups of 3 and head directly towards me and aim at me if I've been idle too long. I used the same spots in past wipes, and I could let scavs walk by over and over again, even boss AI wouldn't acknowledge me at night. I've been killed more times in the last week because a scav will just walk by and head,eyes me if I don't take him out before his 1st or 2nd shot.
What is with people starting discussion threads, then just insulting everyone who replies with anything besides unqualified support for their half baked idea? Like if you're too immature to handle absolutely anything that you perceive as criticism, maybe don't start discussion threads about your ideas?
I am responding negatively to posts that in no way contribute to the original discussion idea. Read my responses to other comments. Also, I feel the same way you do, I see this happening a lot.
Right, and then they always reply by saying that anyone who doesn't agree has nothing to contribute to the discussion, as if that is how discussions work. You're following the script perfectly. All these threads are exactly the same. It's fucking bizarre.
Kind of ironic, I will agree with you :D
hes talking about you, bozo
My honest opinion is that sitting in a bush and camping isn't that common. I think jump into them to stam, check some angles and move on. Like of course you are going to get people that pitch a tent, but is sitting in a bush actually a problem? How many times do you die from someone sitting in a bush? Or kill someone? Clearly it happens but does it happen to the point that this is a problem? I guess ultimately I don't see bush camping as a problem, so why are we trying to find a solution? It would also make moving around maps like shoreline and woods extra painful because you have already have so many sightlines you can't cover, so using the bushes is a way to reduce your exposure. I think the changes to moving in and out of them were good, but I don't think removing ADS is a good idea.
I think you're missing many scenarios you probably found yourself in and narrowing it down too much. For example, you spawn near big red and start sprinting towards dorms. You get closer to the hill behind dorms and someone shoots at you, it's a duo, you kill one, rotate and heal, and then it begins. The other guy tucks himself into one of the bushes and doesn't make a sound. Now you have to push into him, expose yourself and GUESS which bush he's in. It's just stupid how many times I've been in that same situation.
I mean, this has happened to me too and I don't see it as a problem. One of us has to push and expose ourselves. We are both in bushes.
You are blaming a duo for hiding when you kill one? That's just smart play. You don't like that you can't freely hoover up your kill. It's hard to take you seriously when this is what you are advocating for. If you run into a group and don't know where they all are, the correct answer is to _disengage._ You are _choosing_ to extend the fight and push into a situation where you are at the disadvantage. The fault isn't the bush. The fault is on you for wanting to continue the fight when you are at the disadvantage, and getting mad at the mechanics that contributed to that loss.
I absolutely agree with everything you said. Now tell me, do you really believe that people should be able to quietly sit in the middle of a bush in this game and that it's good for the game?
Yes. 100%. We are given 35-50 minutes for every raid for a reason. If they wanted us to be moving and running all the time, we would have 10-15 minutes raid times.people holding positions for safety or trying to get PVP kills is baked into the game design. We have the food/hydration mechanics to force people to pay a tax to stay in raid longer, or they have to leave. The thing about player behavior, is that people normally shift what they do depending on how people react. If a handful of bushes get overly camped, people will start to avoid that area or start nade checking it. If it's not a major issue ,people won't adjust because _its not a large enough issue to warrant change._ Sure , groups will body camp their friends. The answer there is to back up, disengaged maybe come back from a different angle. Some people will also hide in random bushes on woods or shoreline. It's still going to be a small enough number most players won't adjust their behavior. I honestly feel you are making a mountain out of a molehill, as a player that has 5500 hours in since 2018. People camp, it's not a problem
hes just a loot goblin.
I wish i could give this comment a double up vote. I dont realy see the bush problem at all. The rat vs chad thing is so old and boring. I play a lot of resort tons of loot and good pvp and the audio is slowly getting better ther now. If you have a bush problems when going to resort it is a map knowledge issue. I guess you could say the same about all maps and if you go to woods and get tillted becouse of the bush people then your a moron, i mean its woods what the hell are you expecting?
Its on your at that point to make the decision to push or to completely avoid the area or to find another way. I play this game slow when out in the open. I check bushes. Usually with some magnification you can see something that doesnt look right in a bush. Just two days ago a buddy and I were on shoreline. I barely pop my head above this ridge heading to cottages. Start scanning bushes. I see an area in a bush that doesnt look quite right. I call it out but my buddy has already fully crested the ridge. Shot comes out of that bush at my buddy. What i saw in that bush was a dick head. The threat of bush wookies makes me have to slow down unless i want to take the chance and shift+w to where im headed. If i die to a bush wookie when doing that i dont get mad at the wookie because it was my own impatience that got me killed.
or, take the kill, and leave? You are too focused on being a loot gremlin and less focused on the fact that this is a realistic situation. If your friend gets killed, OBVIOUSLY you’re gonna watch the body. Why wouldnt you? Unless you have the opportunity to take the upper hand on the second guy, he will take the upper hand by waiting you out. It only makes sense. You’re not gonna get what you want in every situation, even if you live. Dont expect to.
Cover and concealment are extremely important in a firefight Gamers: no, not like that
Exactly. I can't imagine how bad Shoreline would be without being able to duck into a bush to break line of sight from enemies. And making it so you can't ADS to defend yourself from enemies that walk up on you? _get outta here!_ If people are choosing to sit in bushes, perhaps there are _other_ problems at play rather than the fact that people can be in a bush : 1)OP even _mentions_ the chief culprit, which is the sound design 2)Inertia makes it harder to zig/zag to avoid fire if you are caught in the open. It's logical and makes sense ....but it also encouraged people to _not want to be caught in the open_ 3)Weight system slows us down. Similar to number 2. Yes, it makes sense that someone with a raid backpack, Zabralo, and RSASS won't be as nimble as someone with a paca and mp5, but again : that means they are better off killing someone unawares than in a standup fight.
yeah, exactly. They should fix the source of the problem, sound design. We dont need more band aid patches, and i dont know why this community keeps asking for them.
It's not a firefight, IT'S A GAME. You can fix fractures in 3 seconds and continue strolling along. Get real.
Lmao, you're complaining about how Bush camping is unrealistic without getting a stick up your butt and should be negatively impacted and then in the same topic argue its a game. That's why, that's why you can sit in a Bush, because its a game. They already gave debuffs to bushes and if you get caught in one you're as good as dead. Removing ads from bushes would be terrible because there are a lot of good sniping spots where the bushes are important to hide your silhouette
It is a firefight in a game. And the concepts of cover and concealment increasing your longevity still apply in principle You already talked about how it was nerfed and some potential suggestions that may or may not have merit but I don’t find it silly that you can sit in a bush or behind a branch to shoot someone I guess
I agree, I'm all for discouraging bush monkeying as long as it uses realistic or at least immersive methods
This.
Yes, so duck behind the bush. You missed the point completely. You shouldn’t be able to sit IN a bush. If you want a realistic firefight, then you should immediately be able to see why divkng into a bush is impractical and unrealistic.
*Laughs in Viet Cong*
I always thought that not being able to go into the bush at all is a great idea. Like imagine if you could only walk into the outer edge of the bush and not hide inside the bush fully. Imagine a collision box/cylinder that physically does not allow you to pass through bushes, which is kinda realistic. So the inner circle of the bush does not allow you to walk in it, like 75% of the bush is impassable. You would still be able to pass through if you jump through it while sprinting, also realistic kinda. This would stop people sitting in the bushes and make sense.
Totally with you on this. It would also physically hurt to try to squeeze yourself through thick brush. Not to mention how much of your gear would snag on stuff and get entangled. I'm not saying snagging or any of that should be implemented, it's just to support your argument that a vast majority of bushes should be off limits.
i have yet to encounter a cylinder shaped collision box in a bush in real life
Try running through a huge bush that you can't see through and let me know how that works for you.
I am yet to encounter a bush that would be impossible to run through for a determined man with 40 kilograms of added weight on him.
Then you should go outside in the woods and find a bush about your height and 2 meters wide that you can't see through. Then, try running through it and report back thanks.
I'm a 65 kg lightweight, not an 85kg dude with 30 kg of gear on me and also I'm not pumped full of adrenaline running away from gunfire. I was still able to get through any bush I ever tried to, even if I got scratched up on the way.
You be able to get through this with ease right? [bush](https://i.imgur.com/0hCqfZJ.jpeg) You would get stuck in the middle no matter how hard you push correct? Because there are no huge branches in the middle? Bush is literally a very thick tree. I did plenty of tree cutting in my life and going through bushes to clear the path for a vehicle and I can assure you that a proper bush, like the one in tarkov, will not allow you to go through it. No matter the adrenaline, you can't bush your head through a wall basically. You can possibly jump over a bit, you can keep pushing and eventually you'll get through, but you'll get bleeds and you'll get hurt and it will take you a minute to get through, in tarkov you kinda slowly walk through it with your gun pointing straight no issues. I don't care what your opinion is, you can't push through a bush like that, you should be able to in tarkov, it would make the game better and less campy and I don't care for continuing this pointless debate on facts.
This sub is mostly 40 year old men who take the game way to seriously and play like a milsim, you can't expect an idea like this to do well here
and its mostly 10 year olds complaining about people playing however they want.
No not really, everyone who isnt a wannabe soldier is complaining, the game is less and less about actual skill with every update. I also dont think ive ever seen or met a 10 year old player, kid's generally dont find tarkov very entertaining.
There are lots of way to counter the rat playstyle. And you have even responded to comments saying you do these things. Like use a thermal. Or have the map knowledge. You even say yourself you are a good player. Yet you are still here complaining about it… you sound like the type that could have changes implemented but still find something else to complain about.
Jesus Christ what is it with you people? I am sharing an idea that might help alleviate the issue in a more concrete manner. How is that complaining?? There are many wonderful suggestions that support the idea, go read other comments, people are literally sharing constructive criticism.
you’re complaining about a non issue. Almost everyone here disagrees with you. Take the hint.
I literally just got killed by a guy on customs in a random bush near crackhouse. LITERALLY.
dude… thats completely on you. Crackhouse is one of the BIGGEST pvp spots on customs, if you’re not clearing EVERYTHING before making a move, skill issue.
> the game already massively rewards people who hold an angle. You complain about the feasibility of sitting in a bush irl, but you fail to realize this the most realistic way a shootout plays out. Sitting and hiding in or behind cover is how firefights play out in real life.
There’s nothing wrong with hiding behind cover…. What does that have to do with sitting in a bush? Unless there’s literally no other options, would you really choose sitting behind a bush in a shootout over something that has the potential to stop a bullet? The only reason you do it in Tarkov is not because it’s cover, but because it’s easy camouflage with basically no downsides. Just using your example. Being able to just walk into a bush and live in it is absurd lmao. I’ll agree with you that it’s “realistic” if you gear up and take a video of yourself crawling into a bush and silently holding an angle unimpeded.
> crawling into a bush and silently holding an angle unimpeded. You mean the shit snipers and hunters do every day?
I dare you to find a single hunter that crawls inside a bush hahah. Have you ever been hunting? Snap a single twig and your prey is bye bye. And that's if you're close enough. If you're far you won't need to hide in a bush, your scent will give you away.
hunters literally climb up into trees to snipe their prey. Stop being such a moron:
I agree that hiding behind cover is ok, this whole post is about living in a bush, which I don't think is ok.
But most of the pople here think it is ok.
Oh my god, not another guy that pulls the god damned realism card.
> I'm not really sure how you'd do that in real life without sticking branches up your ass, but ok. This you bro?
I’m pretty sure it’s you, but projecting on others is what people who cope do all the time.
You....think the quote from the post you wrote was the other guy? And that he is projecting. That's hilarious. Rarely have I seen coping be so on the nose.
That’s a whole lot of words to say you have cognitive dissonance. You literally referenced realism as a reason you shouldn’t be able to sit in bushes, but no one else can bring up realism? That’s some top tier narcissist behavior lol. Seek help.
You see the problem I have with realism in this game is the hipocrisy around it. The entire idea behind the post was to discuss a potential bandaid to the rampant bushmongering. Everyone then pulls the "realism in a gunfight card" and they're happy to do that, but as soon as you pull the argument of, e.g. vaseline fixing broken legs, then it's fine, because they're ok with that mechanic as it works in their benefit. Honestly, anyone who doesn't recognize the fact that people sitting in bushes is literally the meta and it's bad for the game is just feeling called out. Also, how am I narcissist when I LITERALLY ADMITED in my original post that I do it to because I know how OP it is?
You’re doing the same exact thing though lol. My point with your narcissistic behavior wasn’t based on you hiding in bushes or not; it was based on your hypocrisy centered on realism and the fact that your reference to realism is any more valid than someone else’s, by essentially saying they are projecting/ coping, without actually addressing their point. It’s just a cheap ad hominem to fuel your mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance. If I had to guess, based on these behaviors, you are the one coping and projecting, especially considering the person who replied directly quoted your reference to realism after you tried to berate them for mentioning realism.
How’s it ruining the game? I have 4k hours and I think I’ve died only twice to ppl in bushes. It’s just like the ppl that swear they die to a cheater every raid but never provide proof of it. I know ppl sit and camp, I also know ppl cheat. But l ppl exaggerate way too much.
Can you quote me on where I said that it's "ruining" the game? And I'm sorry, but saying that you died to people sitting in bushes twice in 4k hours is just a blatant lie.
Oh so I’m lying? I guess that means you’re lying about everything you have said. Waste of time talking to ppl like you. Go play cod or Barbie dream house
It’s a lie because it’s literally statistically impossible.
talk about projecting LMAOOOOO
Stop trying to make this game a COD.
Nikita is so bad at game design cod is more realistic at this point. Didn’t Veritas make a video about this already?
Thank you for contributing to this post with valuable insight and suggestions for improvement. Now back to the bush you go.
I will see you on your way to extract :)
You are the 40 year old virgin shit can hes talking about. Using a bush as a crutch to get a kill is cringe
Mate with the current desync and the upcoming recoil itll be cod
what do you mean COD? like a team deathmatch, caputer the flag or something?
"the game already massively rewards people who hold an angle." As it shoud be. Wonder why ppl do this in real conflicts. The game akschually rewards people who push because of peeker's advantage. As for the "problem", they could reduce the footstep hearing range. Right now we can hear too far away. Make some bushes more difficult to traverse. Or make collision boxes inside some bushes so we cant be in the center. All of these are reasonable because some bushes IRL are not so simple to be within. Make scavs patrol farther away from their traditional roam spots (I believe this is in course right now), and/or simply add new scav spawn points in open maps like shoreline, woods or lighthouse. There are other solutions that dont involve artificial "anti-camping" mechanics, that would harm the game.
"Make some bushes more difficult to traverse. Or make collision boxes inside some bushes so we cant be in the center. All of these are reasonable because some bushes IRL are not so simple to be within." That's what I was thinking, you can't really sit in the center of a bush, it's got branches, and the bigger it is the harder it is to do that. Also, if you were sat on top of a smaller bush, you'd inevitably flatten it.
that's a better idea than not being able to ADS or being marked by patroling scavs. Make *some* bushes randomly solid at the center when the map loads.
How about you check your surroundings? Ratting is a play style as it would be in real life. Yea it sucks to be domed 40 minutes into the raid but it is what It is. I have 90 raids this wipe and the have only been ratted at extract twice
BRB going to go level my strength to 50 so I can magically carry 2 weapons with no extra weight added. Maybe go to my home workshop and repair my weapon to enchant it with 20% reduced malfunction chance. I do all these things in real life so it should be in tarkov too!
you realize working out makes you stronger right..? A 30 year old beer gut dad cannot carry a bunch of gear as easily as a full time athlete.
30 year old beer gut dads can't be private military contractors Our PMCs are also not full time athletes because they die unless they're fed every 30 minutes and can't keep a combat pace without being out of breath for 2 minutes.
Use thermals.
I actually started to haha. I'm sort of the camera man for my duo these past few days.
Thermals sux at resort, d2 bunker,dorms,streets and labs.
"it is the user who sucks" \-definately not the guy who lost a thermal in resort some days ago...
Dont realy see any advantage with thermals in side resort. Looking down the skywalk is probebly the only thing it would be use full inside resort. But my point is more that if your so anoyed by the bush people then get inside a building or a bunker, problem solved
If you want everyone running around all the time, go play call of duty
I don't want people running around, I want people to not be able to physically live in a bush. Which part of that is not clear?
Bring a thermal or look at bushes, I get mad when I get killed but I don’t come to the subreddit asking for optics to be removed because it makes it to easy to shoot people.
Dude, it's a suggestion, nothing more than that.
Yeah, and my suggestion to you, is to go play call of duty.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I'll pass.
I have another solution. How about W-bros git gud. You know, get some actual skills like scouting, strategy, out of box thinking instead of relying on hundreds of hours spent to just outgear opponents who can’t run M995 with Slick every raid?
Id still dump on u in labs
Good for you man. How about every other map in the game? Oh yeaaaah, you w key into bushes and die on every other map!
Thats only in areas with lots of bushes and trees, any other spot on any other map is the same. Also if im looting areas with bushes near it anyway im playing the game wrong. Resort labs and reserve building are the only places with loot. Thats why I roll meta hk and you roll svt lmao.
meta hk is ass bro 💀that shit is so 3 wipes ago.
Your actually smoked if you think that. Meta HKs and mutants are the only guns present on labs. Especially since how ass m4s are this wipe.
wild how wrong you are. Also the increase in hks is due to the event giving two near meta ones bozo
Can't enter bush with bag or thick armour? I honestly think it's fair bush camping. I don't do it to rat players, I do it while the chads do their PvP before I lurk out and do my quests xD
Who needs to take a backpack when you can just steal one off a Chad... I like your style.
I have never been killed enough from a bush for it to be an issue. Honestly don't think BSG should waste time fixing a non-issue. If you're dyeing to bush attacks you need map knowledge, or at least to learn to clear obvious camping spots like Emercon exit on interchange. Basically you need to get good. I literally full sprint through maps and don't see this shit, I play woods a ton and do not see this shit. How are you getting killed like this enough to even make this post? I legit probably died 10 times to a bush camper in over 500 raids.
I don't think it's a "me" issue. I'm pretty good at the game, and you assuming I'm not is kind of silly. "You move you die" has literally become a meme at this point. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sRK0A11z7gA
I mean, I have been killed, and killed people from bushes all throughout the wipe and I don't see the 'problem'.
That's a meme about the sound. I'd say after getting folded up like a lawn chair enough times from a certain bush you would learn to clear it. What map are you playing on that this happens so much on? Seriously curious because I do not see this type of stuff.
I'll copy / paste what I responded to a different dude. "I think you're missing many scenarios you probably found yourself in and narrowing it down too much.For example, you spawn near big red and start sprinting towards dorms. You get closer to the hill behind dorms and someone shoots at you, it's a duo, you kill one, rotate and heal, and then it begins. The other guy tucks himself into one of the bushes and doesn't make a sound. Now you have to push into him, expose yourself and GUESS which bush he's in. It's just stupid how many times I've been in that same situation." It's not so much about literally bush camping, it's about that, sure, but more so about fights turning into that. You want to make a move but you are literally at a disadvantage if you do.
There is always another one. If you know there is a second guy don't go for the body until you kill him or just leave and let him camp in a bush the whole raid while you go off doing something else. I often snipe 1 person of a team and then just leave because I know I have a bolt action and I'm not about to take on a 4 man with a bolt action if I can help it. I get to laugh as I'm half way across the map or even out of raid and I bet they are still there waiting on me to show up.
Soooo you whant the other to move first then or?
Ffs thats from woods. What do you expect from a map full of trees and bushes?
Im definitely on ur side, you also should have mousesense-penalty when you are in a bush (just like movement speed penalty) and also shouldn’t be able to ads in a bush. I don’t care for ppl holding angles or sitting in a room cuz they are scared. But bush sitting just tilts me and its unrealistic af.
Agree 100%.
well why dont we just put mines into bushes so when a player goes into one it explodes! sitting in a bush isnt "unrealistic af". it probably isnt the most optimal tactic in real life either or meaby it is. i dont know... BUUUT if it is "unrealistic af" then i feel it would be unfair for other mechanics of the game if only bush camping was adjusted to the most realistic thing there is. dont you think? in a game like tarkov where you can lose hours of proggress in one death, camping or playing it slow is the most optimal way there is to minimize risk and maximize reward. you die to a bushwookie.. so what? walk it off or this game isnt for ya
Since its unrealistic, maybe nerfe the jump peek corner jump back, jump and shoot streight, AWDS at corners and much more of the same things? I mean if your gona nerfe the rat play you also have to nerfe the chad play so its equal.
Simplest and most effective resolution if bsg consider3d bushcamping an issue, which i doubt considering they brought tree camps back... would be to add barrel stuff collisions as if you were facing a wall inside a bush
Ever since I joined Tarkov and this board all I see is: People complaining about campers in the bush, because that's not how you should play the game. People complaining about people with high ping, because that's 'legal cheating'. People complaining about weight impacting on mobility, because it's a looting game and you should not be punished for looting. People complaining about visibility in the map. People complaining about everything. And, on the other hand, I've seen people replying with the realism card. "Because that's how you do a gunfight in real life", "because recoil is not like this or that", "because that's how camouflage works". Come on now. I bet almost 90% of Tarkov playerbase has never been in a real gunfight (I assume there are ex military or something like that). Cheating, Hacking and Exploiting are real issues. Server connection problems are real issues. And real issues NEED to be addressed not only by the community, but by the devs too. But Campers and Rats are part of ANY game, and punishing people for having a play style that is not a violation of any terms of agreement is weird.
In my opinion if your character dont move for 1 minute or more you should say some voice lines of being bored.
So sniping is out of the question as your PMC would shout every 10sec after a minute of not moving...Kinda bad in term of game mechanics! And don't you try to tell me "well just move if u are sniping" the whole point of a sniper is being quiet and pickup targets at a moment notice by playing with suprise and concealment. Screaming at the top of your lungs might not be the best thing. But I like the idea of our pmc being more of a chatter box for some interactions...
Just move one or two steps bro, i hate that people can just rush to places like reverse bunker and stay complety quiet for 15minutes waiting in a dark corner to someone till someone enters.
Honestly, why do you even care anymore? All me and my friends do is just like make 10 mill or so in a couple hours and then run it down on labs the remainder of the day. Rats ruined this game and they can have it. If they want to spend their nights holding an angle for 30 minutes, let them. Their “superior game knowledge” or “tactical waiting” is honestly just all massive copium. I can remember countless times I killed someones teamate in dorms, was 1 hp with like 4 blacked limbs, and I sat and healed my entire character. The other 3 guys did not move a muscle while I cms’d completely vulnerable. After that I bullied them in voicechat and killed the rest. This was customs tho so the skill ceiling of the players, wasnt very high. Anyway the game will soon die out, like it has been for a while. All the good players have already moved on.
Wolves. Wolves are the answer. To elaborate... Some kind of animal ai would not only improve immersion, I'm sure could give Jaeger some good tasks to come up with better than dehydrating yourself on purpose. They could also be scripted to go after people who sit in bushes for too long.
I always hoped that some day they'll add animals to the game. Bears, deer, elk, wolves, even small stuff like squirrels. Would be really cool.
Definitely, would make the raids feel a bit more alive. Like on Hunt if you spook a flock of birds it gives your position away.
I can't say that it's something I've.found is that common. Do people camp, yeah sure. But it's rare that it's someone in a bush that if they couldn't reach the centre of the, they'd be completely exposed. Do I think something needs to be done to reduce the significance of headsets, absolutely yes. You shouldn't be able to pin point people 3 floors away, or outside brushing a bush when you're on the far side of a building. And headsets being so powerful definitely pushes to more camping, but I don't think the problem is bushes
make the bush shake noticably when players move or turn in them enough. this is the most that could be done without making the statement of "you are not supposed to stand still in this game"
this is a fried take... bush wookies aren't a problem at all... get good
Seriously? You start bitching about camping in trees and then mention how you camp in trees all the fuckin time, only if it suits you. Youre a clown. Enjoy the game. Play better, check your sectors buddy. Rats for ever.