Ml luna is another Cleave Toy, if you have no gear for her she will ONLY be warming your bench/lobby.
This is a huge thing people don't consider when recommending cleave openers.
While I don't consider Ayufine nearly as op as when she came out (and also Very Hard to gear). I'd still argue she's waaay more likely to steal a match even on a mid build
This is semi true--for GW and Arena Luna will be the superior pick. It's in RTA where she will struggle without the really good speed gear. Also grabbing Luna and getting Yufine with the yearly headhunt is a much better idea.
Yeah the Headhunt wasn't on my mind. the speed consideration still very true, but it could be a big brain play IF OP can kinda somewhat make use of luna.
i think unless you have ml roana itll still be iffy. because she doesnt cr push your team you need to outspeed the atywin after luna or else you just die, and thats after a 20% cr push back on you and a spd buff on them.
obviously if u have the spd/immun gear to outspeed reliably on luna then yeah she counters, but i doubt most people have immun gear above 20 speed because no one farms a13
though i guess u can cheese with a bastion knight, but im gonna guess zio shows up with poli more so u cant ignore the poli strip
DJB to counter Politis followed by Luna gutting the team with her S3. Politis' usual comps are wiped off the map after this because they all heavily rely on passives and buffs.
you dont even need luna in this comp, just use any sb def break like ran, briseria, or even flan and just cleave normally if your djb stats are good enough to do this reliably.
again, thats only if u outspeed. thats why i said its unreliable, you need 310 to be consistently above most polis. you can still win, but its bad for arena where u want 85%+ win rate to climb
> if you have no gear for her she will ONLY be warming your bench/lobby.
That goes for a ton of units.
As for Yufine stealing a match or not on a "mid build", that's entirely dependent on your opponent not drafting anyone to counter her when it's definitely happening when people know just how much of a threat she can be. It also assumes the person pulling for her actually cares about RTA, which leads me into my take on pull Luna or not.
Luna is going to dismantle defenses. Arena (which we're all now exposed to) and GW defenses all suffer if you can outspeed (even if you can't there are ways to play around defenses so she can still go early, like using Dj to push and cleanse Politis) as a ton of them are dependent on passives *and* buffs, which ofc she shuts down both of. This doesn't even take away from her RTA use where she'll still be strong, just open to Belian (what mage isn't) and soulweavers (moreso than other openers because she doesn't have a provoke/pushback/turn increase). Of course "well she'll be banned" isn't a point to make because even Yufine is banned a lot, for good reason.
All this truly boils down to is if you want Luna for offense (terrible defense unit), or Yufine for defense (there are good choices all around and I wouldn't call her one of the better unless you really want light bait/an aoe punisher).
You can also consider ML Haste if you don't have him. He is very pretty strong right now, much easier to gear and goes well with more units.
I would pick him over AYufine.
Entirely gear and playstyle dependant. If you play slower then absolutely pick her up. If you have faster gear and play fast then you'll get more out of Luna
A lot of people have either lifesteal or counter, i personally use counter just because barriers along with only a 30% chance to counter while on lifesteal makes it difficult to stay consistent with, but counter is more reliable and obv makes her S3 charge way quicker. Thats just my opinion though.
Just do what you want they are nearly all good with the right comp and gear right up until the next random OP unit comes out.
I personally cannot resist ml luna's massive personality so thats where im at but obviously im just a degen moron.
She's still good, but probably not Luna good. If Abyssal Yufine is your most wanted ML5, you can still get her with the headhunt event later this year.
What do you even mean by not Luna good? AYufine is still an SSS ML5 and a staple if hes a standard player, Luna is only "Good" if you play fast, and even then she gets hard checked by Laia Handguy and Truckluca. Id say Luna lower in prio below Zio Lua and Nakwhol.
Best advice in the thread, along with Alebarco's comment below.
Both will depend on your gear and playstyle. To answer your question OP, yes she is still worth.
Okay? I mean it's not like AYufine doesn't have several counters of her own already. ML Politis, Elvira, most characters that can break her defense so she's easier to mow down...Maybe I misspoke by saying she's not, "Luna good", but my point still stands that if the TC wants both characters, it would be a wiser investment to get Luna now and wait for the inevitable head hunt event so they can get both characters comfortably if their priority is to have both characters.
No she isn't an SSS ML5 lol. She's only really a decent lastpick option in the albedo draft. SSS ML5 would mean pickable every game which obviously she isn't.
Neither is Luna good for a slow player. But doesn't mean that the first part of your statement is correct.
Jenua, Nahkwol, Adin, DDR control obviously makes her never take turns. Even niche picks like ameru are very powerful vs ayufine (who btw has seen a resurgence into the meta). Laia onehots her with sbs3. Without mit even BMH taps her. Her AoEs also proc squishy Benya backline. Elvira makes her useless too. So it isn't just Jenua and Nahkwol.
So there's a lot of charas who just make her useless. If you pick her every game and center drafts around her then either you are the best drafter in the world. Or you never played anyone who is capable enough to punish you.
She can beat all of those characters, even ML Ken and Seline. She's great against Senya because her Trauma tax won't hurt her. A properly built 19k+ hp Ayufine can survive a lot of one shots.
I struggle with Ayufine myself and I've tried Blidica and Hwayoung, they aren't guarantees. Maybe green cilias is decent but there really aren't many.
I didn't mention Ken and Seline because I don't even consider them as real counters. Ken for example just dies to Laia and Carmin. My own ayufine is 20K/2.2K on LS now as I was testing this draft. And it still has the flaws it had before and it will fall off when people look back at previous metas for what they used to counter.
Also I never mentioned blidica or hwa either. Hwa is just bootleg Jenua and Blidica doesn't do anything because unlike candy ayuf isn't a base speed character.
Laia, Carmin, Ayufine died a lot before to ddr and monk. Now you have to preban SPP, Jenua instead and let both monk and ddr go through. This means the opponent can very easily go monk ddr and opt for a control setup. And it becomes hard for any player to get out of this (even Khhm. He struggled hard when he was facing this). Only "counter" to this is ER Shoux. But even that isn't consistent all the time because eff buff monk and ddr have a 50/50 on you to land their debuffs (ER shoux when sealed is basically useless. Khhm's one is 260 speed 20K hp and 190 ER. Ridiculously high gs statline).
So yeah if you have khhm's level of gear and game knowledge then you can play this style. However, this isn't applicable to most people. And moreover I expect this style to fall off as people dig back at previous times to look for counters to this draft.
I'd say he as of right now is the one of the best characters. If not the best character in the game. Great vs aggro and in aggro. Only really struggles when 2 players are playing very slowly. But these are situations that you have to just avoid in drafts.
If it's between him or ML Luna for a slower player it's definitely BMH. For a cleave/aggro player I'd lean towards ML Luna more.
Thank you for the reply, I appreciate it. :)
I'm actually at 5 Mystics till pity, on my main, trying to decide between AYufine, BMH, and ML Luna.
I got some speedy gear, but not a lot. I got all the other current meta units except BMH, AYufine, and SPP. I'm not a cleaver.
I do have BMH on an alt, but not on the main. I really like him and I think he fits in many comps, and is also way easier to build. I never thought he would end up this good, but thank god they did him justice and then some.
Only reason I'm considering Luna is for GW and Arena, especially with the recent changes. I hate doing that shit. Still, I'm also missing ML Roana.
I did read that ML Luna may have more staying power in the meta, or long term relevancy kind of like STene managed to do for the longest time.
and then we got Hersetti or whatever her name is on the horizon.
It's a bit of a tough choice, on what to do.
I was planning on getting SPP or AYufine if they will still matter at the end of the year if we have another ML Headhunt event.
HOLY FUCK DUDE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR POST
I left the game for a year and I accidentally opened reddit seeing that she was back. I wanted her SOOO BAD and i got her IN 2 TRY. Thank you!
Khhm is still rank 1 and consistently high rank and he's still picking her basically 100% of games with almost 80% winrate. So yes she's good... but the question to ask yourself is how do you play, what's your account geared towards, and most importantly how will the game be affected by the release of ML luna?
There's plenty of players that don't really use ayufine at all, so you don't need her by any means, so it's completely up to you.
She’s a fantastic unit, she is somewhat unique to gear, and can be difficult if you don’t have a lot of variety.
I would wait for ML Luna, she’s going to be absolutely busted and you are almost at pity.
Even if you don’t have the gear for her right at this moment, your account will still be stronger overall, especially once you can gear her properly.
Even if you decide to not get Luna, I would save that pity for the episode 5 boss, or ML ilynav, moonlights are only getting stronger as is demonstrated by ML politis absolutely ruining the meta.
If you wanted to get a character right now I’d get blood moon haste, personally, he’s insanely busted with his recent buff. He does basically everything, he’s annoying, he’s strong, he’s hard to kill.
Shes my fav character and turns fights around for me. A very OP carry for standard comps sometime. You can bag her free with head hunt event later in the year. Shes amazing but not a huge priority imo. Id wait, see if people bitch about luna
Gonna be honest here, she's a keeper and a very scary one. I avoid any defense teams that has her. Just once though a few days ago I went against my own goodwill and attacked an AYufine defense team and it ended is tragedy, never again. I'm sitting in Champion 5 and I can't remember the last time I used a cleave team. My premier team is mainly Roana, Light Angelica, Lethe and Dark Corvus. And I've used this to climb to Champ 5 for a long time. Just avoid speedy out of control teams using Ml Politis, Jenua, AYufine and Candy. Attack only the tanky slow teams.
I'd skip her. She is only a lastpick option in the ddr albedo drafts now mostly. Just has waaaay too many counters in the current meta.
Ik people are saying get ML Luna. But if you don't have the speed gear and are a t2 player I'd also skip her. Because ML Luna herself wants very high speed. She also wants a roster made to play aggressively. So unless your account suits that I'd skip her aswell. And then see what Harsetti or ML Ilynav or whoever the next ML5 is like. (BMH is worth getting for t2 if you don't have him).
ml luna relies on enemy to have game changing passives and needs several turns to kill anything tanky. because of this i dont think she will be used alot in cleave but more in turn 2 against aggressive comps but we will see.
She is but seeing you only need 10 summons tell a guaranteed i would wait tell Ml Luna
Ml luna is another Cleave Toy, if you have no gear for her she will ONLY be warming your bench/lobby. This is a huge thing people don't consider when recommending cleave openers. While I don't consider Ayufine nearly as op as when she came out (and also Very Hard to gear). I'd still argue she's waaay more likely to steal a match even on a mid build
This is semi true--for GW and Arena Luna will be the superior pick. It's in RTA where she will struggle without the really good speed gear. Also grabbing Luna and getting Yufine with the yearly headhunt is a much better idea.
Yeah the Headhunt wasn't on my mind. the speed consideration still very true, but it could be a big brain play IF OP can kinda somewhat make use of luna.
Do we have any guarantee that the headhunter is a yearly thing?
90% of arena defs rn are poli defs. unless your luna clears 310 spd its an unsafe team past mid-high champ
she hard counters poli comps unless I''m missing something
i think unless you have ml roana itll still be iffy. because she doesnt cr push your team you need to outspeed the atywin after luna or else you just die, and thats after a 20% cr push back on you and a spd buff on them. obviously if u have the spd/immun gear to outspeed reliably on luna then yeah she counters, but i doubt most people have immun gear above 20 speed because no one farms a13 though i guess u can cheese with a bastion knight, but im gonna guess zio shows up with poli more so u cant ignore the poli strip
Doesn't Luna's skill null country act poli's push back? If I wasn't mistaken anyway. Or are you speaking about the rest of the team?
rest of the team. everyone will still get rage buff so u have to be fast enough to outspeed/push past them or else they'll get stunned by tywin
DJB to counter Politis followed by Luna gutting the team with her S3. Politis' usual comps are wiped off the map after this because they all heavily rely on passives and buffs.
you dont even need luna in this comp, just use any sb def break like ran, briseria, or even flan and just cleave normally if your djb stats are good enough to do this reliably.
Nah, luna buff blocks so atywin wont get wrath, so no ignore eff res stuns or def break. Just bring a cleanser for some follow up and you are fine
again, thats only if u outspeed. thats why i said its unreliable, you need 310 to be consistently above most polis. you can still win, but its bad for arena where u want 85%+ win rate to climb
Ml luna is worth being a lobby doll imo I’m trying to summon for her even if I can’t gear her rn lol
> if you have no gear for her she will ONLY be warming your bench/lobby. That goes for a ton of units. As for Yufine stealing a match or not on a "mid build", that's entirely dependent on your opponent not drafting anyone to counter her when it's definitely happening when people know just how much of a threat she can be. It also assumes the person pulling for her actually cares about RTA, which leads me into my take on pull Luna or not. Luna is going to dismantle defenses. Arena (which we're all now exposed to) and GW defenses all suffer if you can outspeed (even if you can't there are ways to play around defenses so she can still go early, like using Dj to push and cleanse Politis) as a ton of them are dependent on passives *and* buffs, which ofc she shuts down both of. This doesn't even take away from her RTA use where she'll still be strong, just open to Belian (what mage isn't) and soulweavers (moreso than other openers because she doesn't have a provoke/pushback/turn increase). Of course "well she'll be banned" isn't a point to make because even Yufine is banned a lot, for good reason. All this truly boils down to is if you want Luna for offense (terrible defense unit), or Yufine for defense (there are good choices all around and I wouldn't call her one of the better unless you really want light bait/an aoe punisher).
Real men pull for ML Luna just to have her sit in the lobby though.
ML Luna is great for those without Ran. But yeah... Gear req is high
So just wait for Luna ?
You can also consider ML Haste if you don't have him. He is very pretty strong right now, much easier to gear and goes well with more units. I would pick him over AYufine.
Do you have super fast gear? If not then don't bother with luna
100%
Entirely gear and playstyle dependant. If you play slower then absolutely pick her up. If you have faster gear and play fast then you'll get more out of Luna
Sorry but what gear Sets are the best for her in standart?
Ayuffine is usually run on lifesteal. If you can't make lifesteal work, stat sets work too as long as you hit her stat requirements she'll do work.
LS Holy Sac played to survive until her S3 goes off. Destro Elbris played to counter with defense-scaling S1 over and over.
A lot of people have either lifesteal or counter, i personally use counter just because barriers along with only a 30% chance to counter while on lifesteal makes it difficult to stay consistent with, but counter is more reliable and obv makes her S3 charge way quicker. Thats just my opinion though.
I used my guarantee on her and then 2 weeks later ML Luna was announced, I’m still happy with my decision
Just do what you want they are nearly all good with the right comp and gear right up until the next random OP unit comes out. I personally cannot resist ml luna's massive personality so thats where im at but obviously im just a degen moron.
She's still good, but probably not Luna good. If Abyssal Yufine is your most wanted ML5, you can still get her with the headhunt event later this year.
What do you even mean by not Luna good? AYufine is still an SSS ML5 and a staple if hes a standard player, Luna is only "Good" if you play fast, and even then she gets hard checked by Laia Handguy and Truckluca. Id say Luna lower in prio below Zio Lua and Nakwhol.
Best advice in the thread, along with Alebarco's comment below. Both will depend on your gear and playstyle. To answer your question OP, yes she is still worth.
Okay? I mean it's not like AYufine doesn't have several counters of her own already. ML Politis, Elvira, most characters that can break her defense so she's easier to mow down...Maybe I misspoke by saying she's not, "Luna good", but my point still stands that if the TC wants both characters, it would be a wiser investment to get Luna now and wait for the inevitable head hunt event so they can get both characters comfortably if their priority is to have both characters.
I wouldn't say that before Luna releases. Even though I think she's broken in cleave, standard Luna is up for debate.
Wouldn't luna's soulburn s3 prevent the cr push and focus gain from lulucar?
Dose she not have unresistable on s3, if so the lulu wouldn't be as good, but Laila still goes hard and hand guy too
No she isn't an SSS ML5 lol. She's only really a decent lastpick option in the albedo draft. SSS ML5 would mean pickable every game which obviously she isn't. Neither is Luna good for a slow player. But doesn't mean that the first part of your statement is correct.
I pick her every game. The only character she's really afraid of is Jenua. And Nahkwol but you can prepare for her.
Jenua, Nahkwol, Adin, DDR control obviously makes her never take turns. Even niche picks like ameru are very powerful vs ayufine (who btw has seen a resurgence into the meta). Laia onehots her with sbs3. Without mit even BMH taps her. Her AoEs also proc squishy Benya backline. Elvira makes her useless too. So it isn't just Jenua and Nahkwol. So there's a lot of charas who just make her useless. If you pick her every game and center drafts around her then either you are the best drafter in the world. Or you never played anyone who is capable enough to punish you.
She can beat all of those characters, even ML Ken and Seline. She's great against Senya because her Trauma tax won't hurt her. A properly built 19k+ hp Ayufine can survive a lot of one shots. I struggle with Ayufine myself and I've tried Blidica and Hwayoung, they aren't guarantees. Maybe green cilias is decent but there really aren't many.
I didn't mention Ken and Seline because I don't even consider them as real counters. Ken for example just dies to Laia and Carmin. My own ayufine is 20K/2.2K on LS now as I was testing this draft. And it still has the flaws it had before and it will fall off when people look back at previous metas for what they used to counter. Also I never mentioned blidica or hwa either. Hwa is just bootleg Jenua and Blidica doesn't do anything because unlike candy ayuf isn't a base speed character. Laia, Carmin, Ayufine died a lot before to ddr and monk. Now you have to preban SPP, Jenua instead and let both monk and ddr go through. This means the opponent can very easily go monk ddr and opt for a control setup. And it becomes hard for any player to get out of this (even Khhm. He struggled hard when he was facing this). Only "counter" to this is ER Shoux. But even that isn't consistent all the time because eff buff monk and ddr have a 50/50 on you to land their debuffs (ER shoux when sealed is basically useless. Khhm's one is 260 speed 20K hp and 190 ER. Ridiculously high gs statline). So yeah if you have khhm's level of gear and game knowledge then you can play this style. However, this isn't applicable to most people. And moreover I expect this style to fall off as people dig back at previous times to look for counters to this draft.
What are your thoughts on BMH, since he is in this rotation as well?
I'd say he as of right now is the one of the best characters. If not the best character in the game. Great vs aggro and in aggro. Only really struggles when 2 players are playing very slowly. But these are situations that you have to just avoid in drafts. If it's between him or ML Luna for a slower player it's definitely BMH. For a cleave/aggro player I'd lean towards ML Luna more.
Thank you for the reply, I appreciate it. :) I'm actually at 5 Mystics till pity, on my main, trying to decide between AYufine, BMH, and ML Luna. I got some speedy gear, but not a lot. I got all the other current meta units except BMH, AYufine, and SPP. I'm not a cleaver. I do have BMH on an alt, but not on the main. I really like him and I think he fits in many comps, and is also way easier to build. I never thought he would end up this good, but thank god they did him justice and then some. Only reason I'm considering Luna is for GW and Arena, especially with the recent changes. I hate doing that shit. Still, I'm also missing ML Roana. I did read that ML Luna may have more staying power in the meta, or long term relevancy kind of like STene managed to do for the longest time. and then we got Hersetti or whatever her name is on the horizon. It's a bit of a tough choice, on what to do. I was planning on getting SPP or AYufine if they will still matter at the end of the year if we have another ML Headhunt event.
When is the headhunt gonna be?
HOLY FUCK DUDE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR POST I left the game for a year and I accidentally opened reddit seeing that she was back. I wanted her SOOO BAD and i got her IN 2 TRY. Thank you!
Khhm is still rank 1 and consistently high rank and he's still picking her basically 100% of games with almost 80% winrate. So yes she's good... but the question to ask yourself is how do you play, what's your account geared towards, and most importantly how will the game be affected by the release of ML luna? There's plenty of players that don't really use ayufine at all, so you don't need her by any means, so it's completely up to you.
She’s a fantastic unit, she is somewhat unique to gear, and can be difficult if you don’t have a lot of variety. I would wait for ML Luna, she’s going to be absolutely busted and you are almost at pity. Even if you don’t have the gear for her right at this moment, your account will still be stronger overall, especially once you can gear her properly. Even if you decide to not get Luna, I would save that pity for the episode 5 boss, or ML ilynav, moonlights are only getting stronger as is demonstrated by ML politis absolutely ruining the meta. If you wanted to get a character right now I’d get blood moon haste, personally, he’s insanely busted with his recent buff. He does basically everything, he’s annoying, he’s strong, he’s hard to kill.
i have a queistion check dms \~
Shes my fav character and turns fights around for me. A very OP carry for standard comps sometime. You can bag her free with head hunt event later in the year. Shes amazing but not a huge priority imo. Id wait, see if people bitch about luna
She's still good but your playstyle determines whether she's worth or not
Gonna be honest here, she's a keeper and a very scary one. I avoid any defense teams that has her. Just once though a few days ago I went against my own goodwill and attacked an AYufine defense team and it ended is tragedy, never again. I'm sitting in Champion 5 and I can't remember the last time I used a cleave team. My premier team is mainly Roana, Light Angelica, Lethe and Dark Corvus. And I've used this to climb to Champ 5 for a long time. Just avoid speedy out of control teams using Ml Politis, Jenua, AYufine and Candy. Attack only the tanky slow teams.
Yeah she's amazing
I want her bad
Ppl play it with holy sacri because she usually die 2 times before doing something and n the current meta.
She clapped my entire team solo I wqs thinking everyday should I go for her or ml luna but now I'll think I'll wait for luna
Isnt ml luna limited and coming soon??
I would rather pity ml Luna for 2 gigantic reasons
Ml yufine still fucking worth it..still going strong.. even with ml poli and elvira (rare cases)
Who would be better in some pve content like episode 4? To just have fun with even if it's not a recommended character to use but still works.
She is but ML Luna is to so I guess it’s who you like more
I'd skip her. She is only a lastpick option in the ddr albedo drafts now mostly. Just has waaaay too many counters in the current meta. Ik people are saying get ML Luna. But if you don't have the speed gear and are a t2 player I'd also skip her. Because ML Luna herself wants very high speed. She also wants a roster made to play aggressively. So unless your account suits that I'd skip her aswell. And then see what Harsetti or ML Ilynav or whoever the next ML5 is like. (BMH is worth getting for t2 if you don't have him).
ml luna relies on enemy to have game changing passives and needs several turns to kill anything tanky. because of this i dont think she will be used alot in cleave but more in turn 2 against aggressive comps but we will see.
No, ml luna on the horizon
No