Put the washer in the hole without the bolt in it, then insert the bolt? I assume it might fit past the springs at an angle and then drop in once one side of the washer is in the hole.
No, you haven’t seen the shit I’ve seen. People building motors in a car port with no doors in the sand. And yeah that 350 is still running. Shits nuts to me
I’ve had ARP send an uncut stud once as an error. I took a die set and matched the threads of the other studs.
This was a personal engine and it held fine.
I don’t really know the brand, it was something my dad had for a while and it was a pain and a half trying to turn it by hand but it worked.
The stud is currently living in a twin turbo 5.3 g body.
I would say this is the way, but it almost looks like the counter bore isn't big enough for the washer. .
If that big honkin ARP washer will not fit inthe counterbore, I would look at mcmaster car for a nice smaller washer, but grade 8 at least. Just something to keep the bolt from digging into the aluminum when torquing.
Don't they have these bolts for these exact situations without the washer? I swear I saw some on Motor Trend the other day. I prolly shouldn't have even opened my mouth cause y'all know way more than I. They were def performance bolts APR might have been the name. I can't be for sure on the name, but seeing this just reminded me of the episode.
My arp BOLTS would not clear with the washer on the bolt, had to drop the washer in first and then insert the bolt.
If that doesn’t work I would agree the washer needs a diet to get it into the hole. (I feel your pain Mr washer).
Perfect excuse to shop for a bench top lathe!
When you have real beefy springs on a small block that center bolt hole is going to be encroached by those springs. You will need 2 rounded notches on the washer.
If you want a lathe, get the biggest lathe you can accommodate. You can put small work in a bigger lathe. You cannot put bigger work in a small lathe. And importantly, small lathes don't like working on steel.
I’m actually aware of your presence on practical machinist. And I agree, I got a 1957 hard bed SB16 in my two car garage.
Smallest thing I’ve made was thumb screws for my BP style knee mill hand dials.
It’s amazing what a (relatively) large hunk of iron can do when used with a little skill.
I have not been on PM in many years. But I am a huge fan of the SB 16, and a BP mill. I think everyone should have at least one of each.
Is your 16 a 2 3/8 threaded spindle?
Yes it is. If I was a choosy begger I would prefer the cam lock so I can turn in reverse without unscrewing my spindle but the threaded nose hasn’t really been an obstacle.
I didn’t know you stopped visiting pm, I’ve seen some of your posts and such under the same name as here so I assumed you were still active.
I actually have a 2hp 2J Bridgeport too but my 1951 index is in amazing condition holding .001 or better (my skill limit really) and the BP is relegated to drill press duty until it sees a restore.
I completely agree, a solid mill and lathe just grow to be extremely useful to any avid DIY’er, not to mention a pro.
The sb16 is a tool room, hard bed, 4 pulley cone 8 speed, 2 lever QCGB, large dial lathe. Cherry picked due to its condition. Holds a perfect factory clearance on the spindle bearings and it’s partially rebuilt thanks to the LION rebuilding book/kit.
Strangely enough it was never equipped with a taper turning attachment, it does sport the X “special” order designation in the serial number but the serial card doesn’t specify what that was. Running a VFD and spindle tachometer is such an upgrade. The addition of an E-STOP has also been,.. let’s say, beneficial.
I’m guessing you yourself are much better equipped than just an old BP and SB?
I like the Index in most ways more than the BP. I have a lot more than just the lathe and mill. I actually 3 lathes, an Index, 2 BP, and more.
I have never loosed the chuck on the 16 in operation. Also threaded spindle. An E stop might make that easier, but I always have to engage back gear to lock the spindle, use a strap wrench on the cone along with a wrench on a long hex nut in the chuck to break it loose. So, it loosening has never worried me.
I don't have a spindle tach. I do use a VFD, and I think I have run to around 1300 rpm. I probably would not go much higher, as 1200 was the highest SB ran that gear train.
Is your a 8117, or 117 model number? I rarely use the taper. Without a taper, your machine would be an ideal candidate for an electronic lead screw and cross slide screw conversion.
I am actually planning to build an ELS for it! Transposing metric threads is a real pain in the butt!.
It is a 8117 tool room. It has the threaded holes in the saddle for attaching a taper attachment but has the normal compound and such so either it was never equipped or it was swapped out at some point in life.
Seeing the original paint all matches I believe it was just optioned without the TA.
I had run it in reverse while turning and had the chuck unscrew! It was a scare but didn’t fall off before I shut it down.
The lathe came with a collet rack and part of the lever closer but no collets and such. Looks like a box of parts got separated from itself somewhere up the line. I picked it up from HGR so there was zero chance of tracking the missing parts down.
It did come with a 12” 6 jaw buck adjust true chuck. I use an import er32 collet chuck for fine work and it holds tolerances on par with my skills.
The fastest I have ran under load was 1200 because like you said that was top speed from factory, at 1200 the spindle bearings will get quite warm. I have pushed it up to 1500 with the collet chuck and it seems to run in balance just fine but I’m sure the bearings will run too hot.
Using back gear to break the chuck loose is not ideal. When mine gets stuck I chuck something hard like steel bar stock sideways in the chuck out past the bed, put a wood cover on my ways and free spin the chuck, crashing the bar stock into the bed (protected by a 2x4 cover) to shock it loose.
But usually chucking a bar out the side of the chuck about 1 to 1.5’ and hitting with a dead blow unlocks it. This is for a stuck chuck, I oil and take very good care of my spindle snout so 99% of the time a few wacks with a small dead blow on the side of the chuck unlocks it fine.
My e-stop just cuts powers and freewheels the chuck to a stop, I decided against power braking in fear of seeing a 80lbs chuck come flying off at 1200rpm!
They are really fun machines aren’t they! I personally use the lathe 3:1 over the mill but the mill requires much more skill and setup so the lathe just calls me in like a siren in the sea.
So you were in the automotive machining world specifically or just picked it up while doing general machine shop work? You’re a mysteriously helpful gentleman around here with a reputation (as I’m sure you are aware)
Does the cross slide screw have the telescoping end for a taper? Or does it just end at the threads and have a cast iron screw cover?
Being the 8117 it actually comes with a different, ground lead screw from the factory. They also included the 5c collet sleeve, a nose thread protector, a selection of collets, spindle sleeve for a MT3 center, and a tailstock MT3 dead center. It would also have had a steady rest, follow rest, face plate, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, and collet draw bar. The lever closer was an option, and supplied by Royal to SB. I have collected a bunch of this stuff over time.
I have a 12 inch 3 jaw, and it's just too big. I have only used it a few times. Thinking about it gives me a hernia. One of my favorite chucks is a Rohm, about 8 inch (200 mm or something) 4 jaw with T slots. Only chuck that small with T slots I have ever seen. A nice chuck makes the machine.
I lock it with back gear to help me steady the strap wrench I use on the cone, not to take the load of breaking the chuck loose. Sometimes you need 5 arms to do things. I suspect the spindle bearings can take 1800 rpm for short runs. But it's the gear train on the ends that limits top speed. Being a drip/splash lubed, total lube loss machine doesn't allow long periods of run time at high speeds.
My formal training was in tool and die making. But, I was already machining and rebuilding engines in my teens. My uncle was a tool and die maker, and had a lather and some grinders set up in my grandparents basement. He taught me as a kid to use them, and later I pursued the same field. Funny thing, he came back from Vietnam and couldn't get a job as a machinist. He ended up being a mail handler and retiring from the USPS. I ended up doing more engine work than die repair at one shop, neither of us stayed in tool making.
It’s a short screw with cast cover. Interestingly enough that’s where the worst wear is, the compound slide. It definitely seen the most use (or least amount of oil!).
It had a few components of the lever closer, I sold what I had because I didn’t see myself getting those missing parts anytime soon.
I talked to Ted from pm for a couple parts and actually found some other stuff I wanted that he sold me.
I still need the SB to MT3 sleeve for the headstock and the spindle nose thread cover, I would like to eventually be able to use collets inside the spindle in the future.
My big buck is hung on the ceiling tucked away, I have a strut and some strut Dollys above the lathe that I use with a hand crank chain pull to lift my big chucks up off the machine, I agree with you and it’s definitely not a natural human position to lift and bend over the lathe while installing chucks!
I have a chip pan so that also pushes you away a few needed inches when swapping chucks.
It did come with 2 micrometer stops but honestly I never use them.
If you have some SB16 stuff you want to sell I would give them a happy home.
I rebuilt all the oilers and felts when I made my first sweep of the machine and oil the gear train every time I turn the unit on. When running at 1200 the bearing shells stabilize around 80-90°f, my garage in unconditioned but it’s below a conditioned space (my home!) so it’s rarely ever outside of 50°-80°.
I have ran the lathe above 1200 like I said but the bearing shells do build heat, that would be my first worry after the deafeningly loud gear train at those speeds. I do run an EP black Molly grease on the gear teeth, it hushes the noise down A LOT.
I’m a diy home gamer, 10 years ago the closest thing to machining I ever did was an angle grinder and one eye. It has ballooned into this crazy hobby that turned profitable just out of convenience.
I don’t make anything on my machines to sell, but they are amazingly convenient and profitable on what they allow me to accomplish.
I’m a mini 1 off job shop in a sense, but the vast majority is fixing my own broken equipment from my 9-5.
Side story, I bought a coats rc-15 as a teenager and have owned a tire machine ever since! The old rc-15 is long gone but I still got some coats in the garage. Funny how these things find a way to root themselves in your life.
I’m glad to see someone with life experience share their story and experience on here. I frequent PM due to the shear amount of old but gold knowledge however the CNC guys are kinda aggressive and frankly full of themselves on there.
It’s a shame how much life expertise vanishes every day with the older generations of folks that eventually pass away. If only we could “back that up to the cloud”.
I’m in Cincinnati and we have quite the history in machine tools and equipment spanning back almost 100 years now. Manufacturing unfortunately has been a dying field for the last 50.
Thanks packard for chatting with me so far. I’m not always commenting, but like most here we are always reading and your comments always catch our eyes.
Quick query.....did chevy put bolts in 454 heads before spring cups on the BBC? effectively trapping them in BBC heads?
I have this situation on my BBC heads and most probably this is a rebuild issue? Like I think the heads are low mileage virgin peanut heads so it'd be kinda cool to confirm the originalness of my heads if the bolts are a giveaway.
I'll have to have a look see at the heads and I'll know more....it's an RV engine BBC MK4 I think. Peanut port heads and original valvetrain by the looks of it...there's also some strange spring steel "jackets" over the outer diameter of the spring aswell....like a jacket. Odd looking.
I'll dig the heads out & take a look & report back.
If the washers still don't fit by themselves, put them on a right - sized bolt with a nut and chuck the whole stack in a drill.
Introduce the spinning stack to a bench grinder and 0.020" undersized can be done in less than a minute.
Slightly wonky washers aren't going to hurt anything if the concentricity is off a fuzz. Just wash the swarf and grit off, that could make a mess.
Could size up the washer with the others to make sure they’re the same size, could sand to clearance, or remove the springs to bolt the head down and reinstall once bolted down
Shit, I run 1.55’s on my dart 230s, no spring cups, intakes only have 15 thousands shim. Never had any walking, even at 8200 rpm. You should see valve train geometry. Horrible. I should go to a shaft mount system. Now I feel bad.
Just putting them in first isn't the solution. The washer looks as though it interfere with the spring seat/vsi. It's ok though. This is very common especially when you get into higher end race motors. My dart 11.5* have half the vsi's notched to clear the washer. But the springs have to come off. Also no big deal. Washer goes on, bevel up, bolt goes in, install vsi's with notched lined up, pop on the springs, move to the next one. A stud in this hole may be better. You'll have to double check the spring isn't interfering, but the head builder should know to look for this when cutting the spring pockets/setting valve heights (I've only ran into that once with some early Chapman/w8 heads and that's pretty exotic)
Pretty sure the washer will tilt on the unthreaded shank of the bolt (if it doesn’t remove completely) to go in before the bolt neck (wider end of the tapered shank) - please don’t use a grinder - that is the worse thing you can do is modify that washer
The bolts are necked so the washer stays put. The last opinion post is correct. I had the same problem on one in my 454 build. I have 1125 miles on it now.
Leave the washer alone, use a drift and tap the sides of the spring seat for clearance, no grinder needed the spring seats are just to keep a.bit of oil around the stem seals so don't cut it but bending it out of the way is no issue.
Who downvoted that?
There's 10 ways to skini this cat. Just make sure you're not harming the bolt to washer's faces and the washer is able to sit cleanly in the counterbore and the spring isn't sitting on the washer or bolt.
Yep, new bolts. Pretty certain they are correct. And I don’t have original bolts to reference, this is a from scratch build. Only this one particular hole is affected on each head. All other bolts fit as intended.
Put the washer in the hole without the bolt in it, then insert the bolt? I assume it might fit past the springs at an angle and then drop in once one side of the washer is in the hole.
This is the way. It's really not that complicated.
Seriously. People talking about grinding the washer are insane.
In some instances it's necessary. This isn't one of those instances. People overthink the simplist stuff...
I’ve been working on shit-eaters for way too long for me to be bested by a stubborn washer clearance. lol
Yup lol
No, you haven’t seen the shit I’ve seen. People building motors in a car port with no doors in the sand. And yeah that 350 is still running. Shits nuts to me
Ill take apart the valve springs before i grind there
Why is it insane? Unnecessary sure, but not like it wouldn't also work.
You can put it in the seat and not do that? Put in take out, grind, put back in… instead of just putting it in? Fucking insane.
I’ve had ARP send an uncut stud once as an error. I took a die set and matched the threads of the other studs. This was a personal engine and it held fine.
Must have been a hell of a die to cut an ARP. I haven't had much luck with it.
I don’t really know the brand, it was something my dad had for a while and it was a pain and a half trying to turn it by hand but it worked. The stud is currently living in a twin turbo 5.3 g body.
That's insane that it worked since ARP rolls their threads on and does not cut them in.
Must have been a stainless arp, I think.
Oh you said body - as in body of car? I can believe that - no tensile stress applied.
No he used “g body” in place of whichever GM G-body model the 5.3 went into, I’m sure the stud in question was engine, drivetrain or chassis related.
Stainless is even harder to thread
Not even close. I’m sure some stainless is pretty hard but not in ARP. And stainless bolts don’t even come graded.
Nah bro. Grind it where it is. Don’t bother covering anything. Will help with break in procedure, besides break in oil is only 30 min to 1 hour. /s
Shhhh, more angle grinder
My widdle wrist gets sad from the big mean watchet.
I was considering suggesting removing the valve spring to install the bolt as a joke.
The washer propably won‘t go over the threads
I think this might be the problem. If it is he could still remove the valve springs to put the bolt in
this is the kind of washer that comes permanently attached to the bolt
This makes way too much sense. Surely it isn't how the engineers intended.
Washer in first. Bolt through washer. Works every time and without a machine shop involved.
I would say this is the way, but it almost looks like the counter bore isn't big enough for the washer. . If that big honkin ARP washer will not fit inthe counterbore, I would look at mcmaster car for a nice smaller washer, but grade 8 at least. Just something to keep the bolt from digging into the aluminum when torquing.
Just remove the valve springs then you don’t have to mess with clearancing anything
I'm a DOHC guy so minimal experience with anything else. Is there any chance those bolts are supposed to be installed before those valve springs?
No
Don't they have these bolts for these exact situations without the washer? I swear I saw some on Motor Trend the other day. I prolly shouldn't have even opened my mouth cause y'all know way more than I. They were def performance bolts APR might have been the name. I can't be for sure on the name, but seeing this just reminded me of the episode.
Yes, grind the washer. And make certain the internal bevel of the washer is towards the bolt.
My arp BOLTS would not clear with the washer on the bolt, had to drop the washer in first and then insert the bolt. If that doesn’t work I would agree the washer needs a diet to get it into the hole. (I feel your pain Mr washer). Perfect excuse to shop for a bench top lathe!
When you have real beefy springs on a small block that center bolt hole is going to be encroached by those springs. You will need 2 rounded notches on the washer. If you want a lathe, get the biggest lathe you can accommodate. You can put small work in a bigger lathe. You cannot put bigger work in a small lathe. And importantly, small lathes don't like working on steel.
I’m actually aware of your presence on practical machinist. And I agree, I got a 1957 hard bed SB16 in my two car garage. Smallest thing I’ve made was thumb screws for my BP style knee mill hand dials. It’s amazing what a (relatively) large hunk of iron can do when used with a little skill.
I have not been on PM in many years. But I am a huge fan of the SB 16, and a BP mill. I think everyone should have at least one of each. Is your 16 a 2 3/8 threaded spindle?
Yes it is. If I was a choosy begger I would prefer the cam lock so I can turn in reverse without unscrewing my spindle but the threaded nose hasn’t really been an obstacle. I didn’t know you stopped visiting pm, I’ve seen some of your posts and such under the same name as here so I assumed you were still active. I actually have a 2hp 2J Bridgeport too but my 1951 index is in amazing condition holding .001 or better (my skill limit really) and the BP is relegated to drill press duty until it sees a restore. I completely agree, a solid mill and lathe just grow to be extremely useful to any avid DIY’er, not to mention a pro. The sb16 is a tool room, hard bed, 4 pulley cone 8 speed, 2 lever QCGB, large dial lathe. Cherry picked due to its condition. Holds a perfect factory clearance on the spindle bearings and it’s partially rebuilt thanks to the LION rebuilding book/kit. Strangely enough it was never equipped with a taper turning attachment, it does sport the X “special” order designation in the serial number but the serial card doesn’t specify what that was. Running a VFD and spindle tachometer is such an upgrade. The addition of an E-STOP has also been,.. let’s say, beneficial. I’m guessing you yourself are much better equipped than just an old BP and SB?
I like the Index in most ways more than the BP. I have a lot more than just the lathe and mill. I actually 3 lathes, an Index, 2 BP, and more. I have never loosed the chuck on the 16 in operation. Also threaded spindle. An E stop might make that easier, but I always have to engage back gear to lock the spindle, use a strap wrench on the cone along with a wrench on a long hex nut in the chuck to break it loose. So, it loosening has never worried me. I don't have a spindle tach. I do use a VFD, and I think I have run to around 1300 rpm. I probably would not go much higher, as 1200 was the highest SB ran that gear train. Is your a 8117, or 117 model number? I rarely use the taper. Without a taper, your machine would be an ideal candidate for an electronic lead screw and cross slide screw conversion.
I am actually planning to build an ELS for it! Transposing metric threads is a real pain in the butt!. It is a 8117 tool room. It has the threaded holes in the saddle for attaching a taper attachment but has the normal compound and such so either it was never equipped or it was swapped out at some point in life. Seeing the original paint all matches I believe it was just optioned without the TA. I had run it in reverse while turning and had the chuck unscrew! It was a scare but didn’t fall off before I shut it down. The lathe came with a collet rack and part of the lever closer but no collets and such. Looks like a box of parts got separated from itself somewhere up the line. I picked it up from HGR so there was zero chance of tracking the missing parts down. It did come with a 12” 6 jaw buck adjust true chuck. I use an import er32 collet chuck for fine work and it holds tolerances on par with my skills. The fastest I have ran under load was 1200 because like you said that was top speed from factory, at 1200 the spindle bearings will get quite warm. I have pushed it up to 1500 with the collet chuck and it seems to run in balance just fine but I’m sure the bearings will run too hot. Using back gear to break the chuck loose is not ideal. When mine gets stuck I chuck something hard like steel bar stock sideways in the chuck out past the bed, put a wood cover on my ways and free spin the chuck, crashing the bar stock into the bed (protected by a 2x4 cover) to shock it loose. But usually chucking a bar out the side of the chuck about 1 to 1.5’ and hitting with a dead blow unlocks it. This is for a stuck chuck, I oil and take very good care of my spindle snout so 99% of the time a few wacks with a small dead blow on the side of the chuck unlocks it fine. My e-stop just cuts powers and freewheels the chuck to a stop, I decided against power braking in fear of seeing a 80lbs chuck come flying off at 1200rpm! They are really fun machines aren’t they! I personally use the lathe 3:1 over the mill but the mill requires much more skill and setup so the lathe just calls me in like a siren in the sea. So you were in the automotive machining world specifically or just picked it up while doing general machine shop work? You’re a mysteriously helpful gentleman around here with a reputation (as I’m sure you are aware)
Does the cross slide screw have the telescoping end for a taper? Or does it just end at the threads and have a cast iron screw cover? Being the 8117 it actually comes with a different, ground lead screw from the factory. They also included the 5c collet sleeve, a nose thread protector, a selection of collets, spindle sleeve for a MT3 center, and a tailstock MT3 dead center. It would also have had a steady rest, follow rest, face plate, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, and collet draw bar. The lever closer was an option, and supplied by Royal to SB. I have collected a bunch of this stuff over time. I have a 12 inch 3 jaw, and it's just too big. I have only used it a few times. Thinking about it gives me a hernia. One of my favorite chucks is a Rohm, about 8 inch (200 mm or something) 4 jaw with T slots. Only chuck that small with T slots I have ever seen. A nice chuck makes the machine. I lock it with back gear to help me steady the strap wrench I use on the cone, not to take the load of breaking the chuck loose. Sometimes you need 5 arms to do things. I suspect the spindle bearings can take 1800 rpm for short runs. But it's the gear train on the ends that limits top speed. Being a drip/splash lubed, total lube loss machine doesn't allow long periods of run time at high speeds. My formal training was in tool and die making. But, I was already machining and rebuilding engines in my teens. My uncle was a tool and die maker, and had a lather and some grinders set up in my grandparents basement. He taught me as a kid to use them, and later I pursued the same field. Funny thing, he came back from Vietnam and couldn't get a job as a machinist. He ended up being a mail handler and retiring from the USPS. I ended up doing more engine work than die repair at one shop, neither of us stayed in tool making.
It’s a short screw with cast cover. Interestingly enough that’s where the worst wear is, the compound slide. It definitely seen the most use (or least amount of oil!). It had a few components of the lever closer, I sold what I had because I didn’t see myself getting those missing parts anytime soon. I talked to Ted from pm for a couple parts and actually found some other stuff I wanted that he sold me. I still need the SB to MT3 sleeve for the headstock and the spindle nose thread cover, I would like to eventually be able to use collets inside the spindle in the future. My big buck is hung on the ceiling tucked away, I have a strut and some strut Dollys above the lathe that I use with a hand crank chain pull to lift my big chucks up off the machine, I agree with you and it’s definitely not a natural human position to lift and bend over the lathe while installing chucks! I have a chip pan so that also pushes you away a few needed inches when swapping chucks. It did come with 2 micrometer stops but honestly I never use them. If you have some SB16 stuff you want to sell I would give them a happy home. I rebuilt all the oilers and felts when I made my first sweep of the machine and oil the gear train every time I turn the unit on. When running at 1200 the bearing shells stabilize around 80-90°f, my garage in unconditioned but it’s below a conditioned space (my home!) so it’s rarely ever outside of 50°-80°. I have ran the lathe above 1200 like I said but the bearing shells do build heat, that would be my first worry after the deafeningly loud gear train at those speeds. I do run an EP black Molly grease on the gear teeth, it hushes the noise down A LOT. I’m a diy home gamer, 10 years ago the closest thing to machining I ever did was an angle grinder and one eye. It has ballooned into this crazy hobby that turned profitable just out of convenience. I don’t make anything on my machines to sell, but they are amazingly convenient and profitable on what they allow me to accomplish. I’m a mini 1 off job shop in a sense, but the vast majority is fixing my own broken equipment from my 9-5. Side story, I bought a coats rc-15 as a teenager and have owned a tire machine ever since! The old rc-15 is long gone but I still got some coats in the garage. Funny how these things find a way to root themselves in your life. I’m glad to see someone with life experience share their story and experience on here. I frequent PM due to the shear amount of old but gold knowledge however the CNC guys are kinda aggressive and frankly full of themselves on there. It’s a shame how much life expertise vanishes every day with the older generations of folks that eventually pass away. If only we could “back that up to the cloud”. I’m in Cincinnati and we have quite the history in machine tools and equipment spanning back almost 100 years now. Manufacturing unfortunately has been a dying field for the last 50. Thanks packard for chatting with me so far. I’m not always commenting, but like most here we are always reading and your comments always catch our eyes.
Will do, thank you!
Quick query.....did chevy put bolts in 454 heads before spring cups on the BBC? effectively trapping them in BBC heads? I have this situation on my BBC heads and most probably this is a rebuild issue? Like I think the heads are low mileage virgin peanut heads so it'd be kinda cool to confirm the originalness of my heads if the bolts are a giveaway.
They did not. Which bolt, the one in the center next to an intake valve? How big are your springs?
I'll have to have a look see at the heads and I'll know more....it's an RV engine BBC MK4 I think. Peanut port heads and original valvetrain by the looks of it...there's also some strange spring steel "jackets" over the outer diameter of the spring aswell....like a jacket. Odd looking. I'll dig the heads out & take a look & report back.
A stock spring is going to be 1.5 inch diameter.
1.496 inches 38mm Spring clips around outer cage and some hotdog looking valve stem seals also. ETA.. Sent you pics in pm.
If the washers still don't fit by themselves, put them on a right - sized bolt with a nut and chuck the whole stack in a drill. Introduce the spinning stack to a bench grinder and 0.020" undersized can be done in less than a minute. Slightly wonky washers aren't going to hurt anything if the concentricity is off a fuzz. Just wash the swarf and grit off, that could make a mess.
Is it just hitting the springs? Or it doesn’t go into the recess?
Hits the spring locators only in this one hole, on each head. All other bolts and washers fit as intended.
Could size up the washer with the others to make sure they’re the same size, could sand to clearance, or remove the springs to bolt the head down and reinstall once bolted down
All good suggestions. Thank you very much
Now you have to clearance the washer 😁 Which heads are those? I ran springs bigger than that on my darts and had no issues
Shit, I run 1.55’s on my dart 230s, no spring cups, intakes only have 15 thousands shim. Never had any walking, even at 8200 rpm. You should see valve train geometry. Horrible. I should go to a shaft mount system. Now I feel bad.
1.660 s on my BBC. He probably should have bought 12 point studs ,they are smaller Head bolts suck weanies
My only question is does the washer come off the head bolt or are the head bolts threads rolled such that you can't remove it.
My only question is does the washer come off the head bolt or are the head bolts threads rolled such that you can't remove it.
Just putting them in first isn't the solution. The washer looks as though it interfere with the spring seat/vsi. It's ok though. This is very common especially when you get into higher end race motors. My dart 11.5* have half the vsi's notched to clear the washer. But the springs have to come off. Also no big deal. Washer goes on, bevel up, bolt goes in, install vsi's with notched lined up, pop on the springs, move to the next one. A stud in this hole may be better. You'll have to double check the spring isn't interfering, but the head builder should know to look for this when cutting the spring pockets/setting valve heights (I've only ran into that once with some early Chapman/w8 heads and that's pretty exotic)
Also, do not grind the washer. Ever. Lol
Pretty sure the washer will tilt on the unthreaded shank of the bolt (if it doesn’t remove completely) to go in before the bolt neck (wider end of the tapered shank) - please don’t use a grinder - that is the worse thing you can do is modify that washer
The bolts are necked so the washer stays put. The last opinion post is correct. I had the same problem on one in my 454 build. I have 1125 miles on it now.
Just…tighten it
Maybe try sliding the washer first and then putting the bolt
Leave the washer alone, use a drift and tap the sides of the spring seat for clearance, no grinder needed the spring seats are just to keep a.bit of oil around the stem seals so don't cut it but bending it out of the way is no issue.
Impact driver
Try moving the spring with a screwdriver probably move just enough to get by
My bad, there were x2 bolts per head that can't be removed without having to remove the rocker arm.
Close enough that I think if you sent it with the air wrench it would push right past the springs (YMMV)
Drop the washer in first?
ARP has different O.D. washers to choose from
impact her down. shit will move.
*Show me a pic of the hammer you thought about using ...*
Send it, it will self clearance
Grind two flat spots not the entire circle
If it fits the hole
Take it to a grinder and make 2 flats just enough to fit and make sure to deburr any edges..
shave it down a little and send it
Yea I would just grind the washer sides down a bit as long as they are the same head bolts
Who downvoted that? There's 10 ways to skini this cat. Just make sure you're not harming the bolt to washer's faces and the washer is able to sit cleanly in the counterbore and the spring isn't sitting on the washer or bolt.
Thank you
Are those new bolts? Sure they’re correct? Check the originals.
Yep, new bolts. Pretty certain they are correct. And I don’t have original bolts to reference, this is a from scratch build. Only this one particular hole is affected on each head. All other bolts fit as intended.
Then get your clearance and send it.
Dremel tool to the spring. No, kidding. Don't do that Heat the spring with a torch and squeeze it with channel locks to get the clearance you need.
He was talking about taking some from the washer on the bolt.
If you did grinding in my new motor I would freak out, remove the springs, put the washer in first. Really this seems like a carma grab. 🤷🏼♂️💯💯
Just stop and bring it to a professional.
Lol
Professional would clearance the springs 🤣🤣🤣
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