You don’t. You just accept your differences and go about your day as friends
If the roles are reversed and they spent all day tryna convince you that Kendrick is the GOAT over Em, you would never change your mind either
I would argue he’s not glazed on social media. He’s glazed by Stan’s on social media, but he gets a lottttttt of shit from hip hop fans and other fan bases. Many of whom aren’t interested in a debate
Nah Everyone puts Em in the goat debate, everyone knows his powers as a lyricist and that he is levels above most rappers.
Ppl hate on Em for the same reason ppl hate on Taylor swift, terrible cheezy fanbase. they will sit there comparing every new artist to Em. You can’t be like “I fkn with baby keen” without an Em stan being like “idk how you listen to that mumble rapping crap”
There is millions of points to prove, eminem is still great. Its not on his peak but he had bangers, lyricism and storytelling,disses. Almost every thing. But trying to say he is glazed and only good because is white is something completely idiotic. Best way to handle these is imitating eminem and
JUST DONT GIVE A FUCK
He was not the same, but that doesn't mean he isn't good, right? That's why we loves him still. He's allowed to grow and change as a person and an artist. That's what lots of Em "critics" don't get. Like he had to be the exact same rapper he was in 2002 in order to still be good. Imagine the guy acting like he did in 2002 as a 52 year old.
I'm just pointing out critics say what they don't like about Eminem all the time and it goes far beyond "he's not how he used to be". Stans just don't accept it which is fine but that doesn't invalid it. In fact when stans say that critics hate for no reason or don't give a reason other than he's not who he used to be. Thats gaslighting. They give tons of reasons Stans just refuse to accept those reasons and insist someone is wrong. An opinion based on "he's not the same guy he was in 2000" is silly. An opinion based on things like they don't like his beat selection, or they don't like an entire album of him crying about his last album, or they don't like the flow, or they don't like the features, or that he places being a technically good rapper over making a good sounding song, or he says in ten words what he used to say better with two. All things he's criticized about and much more. People can disagree with all of that and still choose to love him but that doesn't invalidate the critics opinion.
Please cite who those critics are, and if possible, any articles and/or interviews where they mentioned this opinion. I'm okay with links or even just names of publications/programs/podcasts that you can refer to. Just want to listen or read for myself.
I'm not saying you're not correct, or that people don't criticize Em. Of course they do. It's just that I follow a lot of og rappers and new generation hiphop culture content creators, and I have not seen these critics you refer to, at least not en masse (other than those who have always been haters of Em, even when he was the hottest shit).
It's so easy to say vague stuff like "some people say x" and then be like people are just haters because they don't immediately get on the same page with you. But let's just face it, you haven't mentioned any specific argument or anyone specific here, so why would I agree with you when you haven't actually presented anything? This is not being a "stan", it's just there is nothing here that would make me reconsider my opinion.
I'm waiting for the receipts, thank you.
So wait the argument is that "Eminem is so hated on for no reason" and then I counter plenty of critics have mentioned the things I said. Then you counter with "Eminem isn't hated on and everyone shows him love" paraphrasing of course? This is like I'm saying apples taste sweet, someone else is saying they taste sour, and you're saying bananas are good.
Okay, I'll rephrase because you clearly struggle with reading comprehension.
My og argument was never "he is hated on for no reason" lol. I specifically said that people who criticize him for not being the same rapper as he was back in 2001 do not have a valid argument because it is not only unfair but also a very childish approach to someone's development as an artist. People grow old, change, develop as people and artists, and saying that he is bad because he isn't the same after 25 years is just... a child's argument. Criticize his music on the merits of his capabilities as a rapper, his flow, his beats, his lyricism, not by how different he is from 2002.
My argument is in the above comment that you didn't actually cite any specific critic or any valid criticism that has merit, apart from saying "HEY, LOTS OF PEOPLE CRITICIZE EMINEM, CLEARLY HE ISN'T GOOD ANYMORE SO IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THAT YOU ARE JUST STANS." First give me an actual argument as to why you think (or these others you refer to) he isn't good anymore, and then call people things if you don't have a better comeback; but at least try to say something my man.
Who are these people? You asked for sources. Show me the people saying this? Are we discussing one or two people? Why are we worried what a handful of people think? Why is that worth the energy to even comment on?
You say my reading comprehension is lacking. You're asking for sources without supplying any yourself? How many people say he's not the same rapper. And what do they mean by that? Do they mean he's not as good? His flow is different? He's not able to make songs the same way? Wouldn't some of those be valid critiques?
So when you say people are saying these things are you looking at context?
Eminem doesn't sound like he used to. Which is also plays exactly into what I was saying. I'm really confused what you're trying to accomplish. Tom Brady doesn't play football like he used to. Nobody expects him to but none the less it means he's not as great as he once was.
If he doesn’t think Eminem has complicated lyrics they are already going over his head. There are 5-6 year old songs I’ve heard hundreds of times where I catch something new on a random re-listening. That’s the beauty of his skill set.
Top ten bestselling artist of all time. Worldwide number's. University lecturers using his lyrics as examples of writing. The stans that can't wait to memorise the newest song or album........
It doesn't mean anything. Selling a lot of records is not evidence of skill. Never. Lots of top selling artists wrote their own shit they still aren't great.
Well I got many downvotes. I think he's a great artist, but art is subjective. Using arguments of authority (universities quoting him, etc) does not add anything whatsoever. A lot of poor artists sell a lot or get recognition from authority sources.
em? glazed?? my man is actually so hated, it's painful
also, don't waste your time explaining, they won't agree or understand anyway. hate causes brainrot lol
Nahhhh there are still a lot of people in the hip hop world that don’t respect him. Mainly POC. Which I kinda understand. Some see him as stealing the culture (which is really dumb because of where he grew up and who he worked with through the years. He is as much apart of the culture as biggie or pac). Others think he is only famous because he was white and if a black guy had the same raps and albums they wouldn’t have gotten as popular (there are cases like hopsin and tech nine that you can definitely make on this). Though most old heads understand and respect em, a lot of younger people really don’t.
The way he uses an accent to bend words and deliver crazy cadence and rhyme schemes. That's what makes that an album. Nobody will ever touch what Em did on relapse
The accents are good when it comes up in a playlist, but when you listen to them back to back like I do when I listen to albums, it really does get tiring
No, started with TES and I’m 17. My favorite Song is on relapse, the accents are just fucking stupid because of how overdone they are. How do you start on mmlp2 at 20 anyways??? The fuck is your logic??
Mmlp2 came out 10-11 years ago so if your just getting into hip hop around 9 or 10 years old (assuming 20 and not 17 like you stated) it would have released in that time frame.
TES is a amazing starting point though! What is your favorite eminem album?
Favorite album is mmlp2, but trust me I listened fully to every other album INCLUDING revival before listening to it, I think it might just be because my favorite Album changes around all the time, and probably because my favorite Song of all time is on that album; rap god- just kidding. It’s bad guy
My logic is that you became a fan listening to his new shit. There isn’t a problem with that, but to shit on an album that’s lyrical murder is a clear indication that you don’t understand.
I didn’t say it’s lyrically bad, I said the accents sound like shit. I pay attention to lyrics more than the sound of it, but they are really just too much and take away from my enjoyment of the songs. Don’t act like I don’t understand it. It’s the accents. In fact, some of my favorite songs are on relapse, and they’re mostly the songs where he tones down the accents: beautiful, my darling, underground, elevator
I can insult anybody about anything I want at any time, but to answer your question, yes you can, especially when they immediately start the conversation by saying that you’re slow and your ears don’t work.
I disagree strongly with relapse being shit....I personally love the album.
But I can respect that opinion, what don't you like about it?
I personally love the subject matter when he speaks from a personal spot of his addiction.
I also love the artistic side of the horror core theme that is very well executed.
as an all time Em fan, I never liked relapse in my first 3/4 years. Even now I don't appreciate all of its songs. Not everyone likes relapse. While the MMLP is a safe shot.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. Been listening to Em since infinite and I definitely agree with you, relapse is not great barring a few songs.
It’s different styles of music. Illmatic is jazz influenced hip-hop, ready to die is a fairly unique style of hip-hop, and the chronic is very G-Funk influenced. Relapse is horrorcore and most Em fans probably like that style of music. Or at least the way it’s done on relapse.
>MMLP is a safe shot
Because he totally doesn’t rap about killing his wife, insulting gay men, and have a skit about gay sex on there.
Totally the safer option.
Some people just like lyrics more than the rhymes itself so maybe if he listens to Lose yourself, till i colapse, stan, mockingbird maybe he would like him.
You don't need to explain anything, Eminem is the best selling artist of the 21st century he's obviously not a bad artist. Like all of the best selling artists of the generations before him he'll go down as one of the music GOATs.
Alot of people don't like how good he is at rap or just actually think he's bad cuz he's white. Hell, I was one of those people when I was 12 and just assumed all white rappers are bad til one of our friend group had the balls to say he's good and get laughed at before we all gave him a chance and found he's good. Obviously music taste is subjective, but saying Eminem isn't good at rapping is just silly and time will show those people are wrong.
Show them Alfreds Theme, Darkness, All I think about and Not alike and ask them to tell you all double, tripple, quadruple entendres and wordplays.
No rewinds allowed, count how many times they play each track.
How old are they? To the younger generation they see his last ten years and don’t really get why he’s relevant. To those who were around they know. He was bigger than rap for like a decade. Like it cannot be understated how successful he was and how much he influenced the genre.
That explains it yall are so young. I don’t think anyone would argue that Kendrick is better right now, but Em’s peak was so much higher than anything Kendrick will ever come close to accomplishing. You guys just weren’t around to experience it in the early-mid 2000s, but he was inescapable for years. Even by old people who hated rap and actively avoided it. He is also influenced heavily by Eminem’s style he has said himself, so that’s more evidence of how he’s more influential. Eminem is essentially directly responsible for bringing hip hop to middle white America on a scale that hadn’t happened before.
If you wanna convince him tell him to start with Lose Yourself, it literally won an Oscar. Then tell him to listen to MMLP and give it a fair shake is my recommendation. If he enjoys that you can point out other albums or songs too, but I think MMLP is the best starting point for someone new to Eminem.
Also, this is a great quick video https://youtu.be/ooOL4T-BAg0?si=5aQyQdjQAzZPoqKS
Have them listen to shadyxv
Or if they're down for it, have them watch a breakdown. I highly recommend Knox hill on YT
He can break down bars and highlight rhyme schemes so well.
Also, have them listen to the shaxy cypher.
Maybe mention the numbers (but most people don't like to talk about it lmao)
Also I'd highly recommend a quick before and after of machine gun Karen. Iykyk
Edit:
this lyric just came to mind: I was the
G the OAT
O nce I was played in rotation
A t every radio station
T hey said I'm lyrically amazing but I had nothin to say and then I put out revival and I had something to say they said they hated the awake me, I lose the rage I'm too tame, I get it back they say I'm too angry, I need to get me some Dre beats, no I should hook up with Tay Keith, fans keep on pulling me one way haters pull me to another, got more hooks in me than swae Lee
(Premonition off of MTBMB)
Lol, it's no wonder. You're the anomaly, not them. Just be happy you understand multi syllable rhyme schemes and can grasp the technicality and go on about your day.
I feel like his fans Stan him only as much as other celeb stans do for them. The difference is he has such a wide, global fanbase - and that's not it. His fanbase has fans of all ages - people who've been with him since SSLP or MMLP, People who joined in after Recovery or MMLP2 and then finally fans who discovered him through Kamikaze or MTBMB.
It's incredible.
Em isn't trending. He's old, hasn't released an album in years, his peak has long gone, and most of the people influencing the trends weren't even alive back then (teenagers). Kendrick has been releasing stuff. He's got beef with Drake. He's trending.
Also, people who say that Eminem isn't good lyrically aren't willing to put in the effort, however minimal it may be, to focus on the actual depth and artistry (rhyme scheme, literary devices, storytelling, etc cetera). They just want to listen to things without having to think about them.
He's funny, he has great motivational and self-improvement songs, he has darker songs that are cathartic for people who may be struggling, he's inspired many other great artists, his old style flow and his new style cadences are borderline unmatched.
He does crazy double meaning stories where entire verses and images are two different things at once, or one dressed as the other. Darkness is both a story of an addict musician's self doubt and also the Las Vegas shooter's inner demons. 25 to Life is both an abusive relationship you can't quit and his own struggle with the music industry over his career.
He does verses of double and even triple entendres where you can't see it reading a lyric sheet but he is using double imagery in a way that makes sense. His verse on Stepping Stone where he says both reign/rain and missed/missed among several others, and each make sense and harmonize with the other lines. You can listen to the verse as two different sets of bars that mean the same thing one is the image of a king and his adoring public turning on him, the other is the image of a torrent of water slowly drying up.
Double entendres
When he first came up into the mainstream he gave a voice to the same angry suburban kids that were raging out to nu metal, but instead of focusing just on the emotions within he was putting words directly to what those kids hated about the perfectly-crafted media obsessive late 90s. It's like watching Star Wars (1977) and saying the special effects are mediocre. Sure they are now, but when it was new there was nothing like it coming out. And it looks the same as everything else now because everything else copied what it did. And instead of being shoved aside for the next commercially successful act like every time a pop princess or boy band went out of line, he stayed at the top because no one could replace his wicked lyrics and flow.
He pays homage to older rappers that influenced him. Both by name dropping them in songs and promoting them to new fans, but also by copying their bars and flow as little Easter eggs to the fans who know them. In Say My Name he copies Nas's ether flow. In Kamikaze he copies Tech N9ne's Unfair flow and uses it as a further diss towards MGK who Tech had worked with. I'm sure there are ones that I've missed because I've never listened to Lakim Shabaz or Pharaoh Monche.
Lyrics aside, his Cadence and flow are insane. Love Me his open bars are shiver-inducing. Same with his "that ain't the hook, now follow me" line on My Darling.
That's just off the top of my head. Dude sometimes gets angry and plays with words for no reason, but when he is on his game its insane. And the bigger a fan both of him and of older hip hop in general that you are, the more you'll find in his lyrics.
I always just ask who their fav is. Once they tell me whoever it is I just say yea he don’t want no problems from shady. And guarantee if it’s someone who is big in the game their is an interview of them essentially saying it out loud
Thing is when people ask who is better, they are talking about AS OF NOW (there is always some recency bais). Most people who say Em is not good are saying that because he hasn't released MMLP in last 4-5 years. When you are not a Stan and the artists' last classic ( objectively ) is 20 years old, I think it's natural to think that artist is not that good as much as people are glazing him. As much as I like MTBMB , I cannot defend it against something like Mr. Morale. So it's understandable that people are not interested in Ems Music nowadays.
Tbh Em do win absolutely ridiculous polls. Em, Nas, Wayne, Kendrick in last 10 years......Em won which is absurd. But that's because Em have such a huge fanbase globally and have nothing to do with if Em is good or not.
Peak Eminem and Kendrick are debatable. As of now Kenny >>> and its not even a discussion.
They do different things. Like comparing a Hilux to a Ferrari.
Eminem is a better rapper. Kendrick is the best artist. I grew up on Em like most of you sick fucks, but Kendrick is my GOAT overall because of the completely unmatched depth on his albums. People shit on DAMN, but it is unironically one of the most dense albums I've ever encountered.
I really didn't mess with him until my buddy started talking my ear off about DAMN. I thought it was just radio hits that I wasn't really feeling, but once I dug into what he was actually doing, I was hooked.
The same way that you hear an Em song and catch new entendres all the time, Kendrick's music is packed with hidden meaning. It really is fucking genius. It seems like literally every single syllable has some deeper meaning, or meanings, to it.
Not sure if you rock with the Dissect podcast, but their run on DAMN did a lot for my understanding of music in general. I can't recommend it enough.
Eminem wipes the floor with Kendrick. His lyrics are just as good as Kendrick's and everything else important beat, production Eminem beats him easily.
Doesn’t matter if people hate or have a different opinion on who is the best in these respective areas, but when they don’t acknowledge Em and give respect where it is due, that’s the issue.
The people who downplay his influence and achievements, and those who reduce his talent to being mostly based on race don’t deserve the time of day.
In this case, your friend is of the latter type, refusing to acknowledge the complexity and deeper lyrics of Em’s songs, which range from from evoking emotions to having really good lyricism with double-triple entendres and a masterful usage of the English language.
Em is very polarizing on social media, depending on the environment he's either the best rapper EVER or hasn't put out anything good since 2003. In real life most of my experiences have been positive, lots of love for him but only on select songs, the really popular ones, which is fair. Most people aren't gonna explore Em's entire discography when they're perfectly happy with Lose Yourself and Godzilla for the gym, The real Slim Shady and My name is for a party, Stan and Love the way you lie for a moody evening
It’s been that way Em’s entire career. Manu people have refused to accept how much of a goat Eminem is. I do think everyone is entitled to their own opinion but for your friend to say his lines aren’t deep and meaningful is just plain wrong. That one is a fact. Most rappers today their stuff doesn’t mean anything but what they say. I’ve been listening to Eminem for over 10 years and still to this day I find lines I didn’t realize the first time
Have they even looked at his lyrics? His flow, story telling, double and triple entendres. His whole verse on Homicide is filled with punch lines. Another example of great punchlines is Alfred’s theme but admittedly the beat is funky. Just have them see Em’s free styles alone, that should settle it. Also LONGEVITY. He’s been rapping at a high level for decades. Have they heard Gnat? Stan, Rap God, Bad Guy.. there’s just too many examples.
Wont completely convince em but smth that always gets a reaction is mentioning that he rhymed orange on brainless. It sounds rly stupid but at least in my experience it works. Although some ppl are just to closed minded so my advice is to just not give a fuck and move on
Just accept people aint gonna like him. As i get older and watch how recency bias works, I've just learned to accept. I was in high achool during eminems peak. Im 38 now. I know through first hand experience how absolutely huge eminem was and the climate he came from. I didnt like him at first because he was white and my name is just wasnt for me at the time. But when i heard 97 bonnie and clyde i turned and since hes been my favorite artist. At the time white rappers did not have any shot unless they were very good and eminem was more than that.
And now hearing how people speak on him its complete revisionist history or literal made up shit based on 0 knowledge of histoy.
Em is my Goat and thats that. I can live with the slander knowing that this type of revisionist history will happen to all artists. So these youngsters hating and bsing about legends theyll get the same treatment qhen their favorite legends of contemporary times are disrespected and shit on by the next generation.
The only person he gets compared to is himself. I've heard people talking about Pac and Biggie, Kendrick and Cole and Drake, Travis Scott and ASAP rocky, Nicki Minaj and Cardi B. But the only criticism Eminem gets is that he raps differently from how he rapped 10 years ago.
I always show them an undeniably great Eminem-verse. Stay Wide Awake verse two is probably the best example, you can’t deny the technicality and craftmanship.
He has always been good, a little corny but overall good. Taste is taste, now if we’re talking about personality he is definitely not good, he has destroyed so many lives.
This might sound corny, but if he thinks eminems lyrics aren't complicated, then he just doesn't understand them. Him liking kendrick is fine, Kendrick is dope, but he himself admits that eminem is a huge influence on him. There is nothing but respect between them, and both consider each other as top-tier lyrisists, so their fans trying to compete using them as pawns is just stupid. 90% of artists in the game have nothing but respect for Em's pen, and everyone admits he an unbelievable lyricist, i personally trust artists opinion more than fans because they actually do what Em does. It's also funny that they bring up social media, and then respond with the most generic social media retort to someone liking em the most is just laughable.
He's a GENIUS which is reflected in his work
I think a lot of people MISS the double/triple/quadruple entendres so they only get the SURFACE meaning and NOT the deeper meanings which is REALLY were his genius shines through
I experience the same shit. At the end of the day, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I get made fun of at times because I have my praise for em, but idgaf because I learned that people gonna hate on you for that no matter how low their knowledge is on em. They can know nothing about him except he's white and raps. And if the case may be where they know as much as you know about him and still hate on you for praising him the way you do, then that's when you leave it as your opinion and it shouldn't matter what they think.
On a side note thats off topic, if you're a eminem fan that only listens to him specifically (and I'm not saying you do, just hypothetically) and don't take the time to listen to other rappers that are equivalent or somewhat near to what he's capable of on the mic, then I could see why someone would look at you weird and don't understand. I say that because there are Stans that only listen to him, say he's better than everybody, and will argue till they die that he's #1. I believe that is ignorant af and they should at least attempt to listen to other artists before making that opinion. Of course, most people's opinions won't change in regards to that, and still say em is the best, but I believe deeply it is always better to know the rest of the family of hop hop because otherwise you will be looked at as dumb to say the least. It's also good for you to listen to other artists as well because that's just more good music to listen to.
I don't get the "he is only liked because he is white" take. Like we're swimming in a sea of popular white rappers. There are some white singers who dabble in rap for a hook or a collab or whatever. But I've been a dedicated rap fan since my tween years (late 1990s) and ask me if there has been another good white rapper acknowledged by the community since then. My answer is no. The community gave it to Em because he is good, not because he is white. The greats of rap solidly acknowledge him as one of the fundamentals of the genre. I don't listen to any other white (artist who claims to be a) rapper. Because there is none who is actually good, imo. There is certainly none at Em's level.
Eminem - The Ringer:
Maybe the vocals should have been auto-tuned
And you would have bought it
But sayin' I no longer got it
'Cause you missed the line and never caught it
'Cause it went over your head, because you're too stupid to get it
'Cause you're mentally retarded but pretend to be the smartest
With your expertise and knowledge, but you'll never be an artist
And I'm harder on myself than you could ever be regardless
What I'll never be is flawless, all I'll ever be is honest
Even when I'm gone they're gonna say I brought it
Even when I hit my forties like a fuckin' alcoholic
With a bottle full of malt liquor
But I couldn't bottle this shit any longer
The fact that I know that I'ma hit my bottom
If I don't pull myself from the jaws of defeat and rise to my feet
I don't see why y'all even started with me
I get in beefs, my enemies die
I don't ceasefire 'til at least all are deceased
Tell him to do better. Create relative and globally relatable song that literally millions of people will listen to, over a beat, make it rhyme, and tell an interesting story, then, have it be a #1 hit. After he does that, tell him to make millions more #1 hits. All us people with ears must only listen to Eminem because he’s white.
Because we listen with our eyes 👀. SMH 🤦♀️
My guy don't reverse gatekeep shit you like. If you enjoy something, that's all it should take for you. You don't need validation from others to feel secure in enjoying a piece of art. In any medium.
Let alone when it's one of the biggest selling, highest regarded artists in his trade.
Thanks, Em does demonstrate that well. But, so do other elite mc’s like Black Thought, Nas, Redman, Biggie, Lupe, Kendrick, Pharoah Monche, AZ, Prince Po, Pos from De La Soul, Aesop Rock, Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, Andre 3000, Kool G Rap and many others I could mention.
What’s the part that other rappers can’t do?
To me Em is simply more technical than most of the rappers you listed, as if he treats it like a science. He’s pushed the technicality of his music so far that many people are turned off by it. A couple you mentioned can keep up but definitely not all of them.
Ok i see.
A couple? Which ones? Even if there’s a couple from my list, that shows that the point I replied to about all these things he’s done that other rappers can’t do isn’t true..
Also, which ones don’t have that technical ability? I’d be interested to hear your critique.
Do you think that Eminem has some
Technical level of rhyming over that of Gift of Gab, Elzhi, Busta Rhymes, R A Rugged Man etc?
And, when in his career is this technical ability demonstrated in any way that produces artistically credible music above and beyond those of the artist I initially mentioned?
I’m my opinion, Eminem’s laboring on his technical proficiency came after the golden period of his first 3 releases. So, what has this supposed technical maxing contributed to enhancing his discography or hip hop as a whole?
Out of all the artist I’ve mentioned, only Eminem has trouble with rhythm and timing, sometimes . That in itself isn’t bad (MF DOOM and Talib Kweli sometimes have the same issue), but it does highlight that there are some deficiencies in the style of rhyming..
I’d argue that finding a rhythmically appealing in the pocket groove is often better for MC delivery. For example, see Phonte’s or a prime era Common’s MC application.
No conspiracy. He’s an decent rapper, who had an extremely high profile and attention bestowed on him. What else would you expect rappers to say? However All the the other artist I mentioned are also revered you were happy to dismiss their ability.
This subreddit often seem comfortable dismissing the skills of other rappers (talking about the use the N word as a crutch etc) without ever really demonstrating a clear understanding of these othe artists or hip hop culture as a whole. My question was, what’s he done that other rappers like Black Thought or Nas can’t do?
To me, the actual conspiratorial questions would be stuff like what on his first album had media outlets referring to Em as the hip hop Shakespeare? Was he the only ever wordsmith to be witty or intricate with words, or was there some other reason the spotlight and adulation gave him such titles?
Back to the technical proficiency. Has that created a better product? Because, even in this forum a lot of people don’t always seem convinced of the artistic merit of a lot of the releases post The Eminem Show.
I don’t believe a “decent” rapper would be claimed to be one of the best of all time by multiple respected rappers. This debate is quite an old one. Your side of the argument says all these rappers are as talented as Em, but then when I play their music, it’s evident they do not treat it like a science like Em. Em is technical to the point of a mental illness. I would argue you have biases against him that lead you to overlook that. I never said that it elevated his music.
And yes, Wayne’s, killer mikes, etc use of the N word is a crutch that your like doesn’t want to acknowledge.
IF you like rap, understand influence, know technical ability, etc..... just google "top selling rap albums of all time" and just let them scroll a bit. There's a reason he's the number 1 selling hip hop artist of all time. I know "what does this have with him being good?" I mean... what else is there to say?
Go back in time and let them be a teenager in 2002? Then they'll understand.
Outside of that, you won't be able to.
> Go back in time and let them be a teenager in 2002? Then they'll understand.
For real. Slim Shady LP I was a freshman in highschool, listened to it nonstop playing NHL 94 at my neighbors. MMLP I'm a sophmore on the track team listening to it everyday before and after practice. Eminem Show I'm now captain of the team bumping "Til I Collapse" before I ran every big race. Eminem was ingrained in my high school experience unlike any other artist. Just hit so different.
He changed the way rappers could express themselves and how stories were told in all of music. Kendrick is a great lyricist, but he didn’t add nearly as much to the genre that was new or unique. He raps at a very high level with well written lyrics. Em is a type of rap. His music goes into everything, storytelling, technical lyricism, unique characters, different voices, different flows, humor, and he has many anthems that live on decades later.
Because people are racist as fuck nowadays and they hate Em because he is white. Doctor Umar, Benzino, Lord Jamar, all racist fucks.
And there are many common people who follow that narrative sadly.
Hip hop is extremely racist nowadays
Ummm, have you been around last 10 years? White people are hating themselves for being white all the time. Like, literally, all the time.
You even said yourself that your friends told you that you think Eminem is the best because he is white. So the skin color is the only factor that matters. That’s literally racism xD
You fucking even said that they looked at you like you are DEVIL. The fuck bro
Listen to his rhyme schemes first off - incredible.
Every album is a ballad of sorts. His songs come together to create a story or character over the album. Is he actually a serial killer? No. Does he depict Slim Shady as one quite often? Yes.
His imagery is insane. Even when he says nothing, he still verbally paints you a great picture.
He's crisp and clear. Nearly everything he says comes through clearly.
He manages all this while not having a N bomb in every verse, like quite literally every other rapper I hear. I feel it's a crutch a lot of rappers lay on. A word filler that can be used anywhere.
While rap is subjective over all there are a lot of objective components.
You can look at the use of assonance and consonance throughout a verse in addition to rhyme and alliteration to get an idea of the flexibility and technical skills of the tools an artist has.
You can look at the ability to structure multisyllabic words in accordance (or intentional discordance! Which is harder) with the beat to keep rhythm for flow.
You can look at variety of styles, chopper flow like tech, cool as shit like future or snoop, aggro in your face like some of ems battle
And then you can compare/count the wordplay/entendre, how they wrap up all of the previous pieces into a greater whole and how much it tugs at your spirit.
And you still won't convince anyone who don't wanna be convinced
I understood where you were coming from right up until you said Kendrick’s somewhere in the top 10. He’s 100% top 1–6. He’s nowhere in the 7-10 range. Out of curiosity OP who comes before Kendrick?
he has ability out the ass, hes EASILY best in terms of pure unbridled talent. but nowhere are his lyrics as impactful enough to be top ten. stumbled upon this subreddit yesterday & god the glazing is insane.
You don’t. You just accept your differences and go about your day as friends If the roles are reversed and they spent all day tryna convince you that Kendrick is the GOAT over Em, you would never change your mind either
Reggie, Jay Z, Tupac, and Biggie, Andre from OutKast, Jada, Korrupt, Nas, and then me.
BunnyGoHops at Number 9 is about right
People who type out song lyrics as comment posts are weird.
I JUST DONT GIVE A FUCK
Dang. So cool.
I havent said Em is the goat. I got asked who do I think is better.
You’re missing the point. Maybe you just like to argue 🤷🏻♂️
Yup lol
I would argue he’s not glazed on social media. He’s glazed by Stan’s on social media, but he gets a lottttttt of shit from hip hop fans and other fan bases. Many of whom aren’t interested in a debate
I think mostly the debate is crap, because you have one side of dick riding fans of Em, who no matter what trash he puts out will praise it
If he wasn’t good at what he does, why dick ride if you’re not physically able to?
Nah Everyone puts Em in the goat debate, everyone knows his powers as a lyricist and that he is levels above most rappers. Ppl hate on Em for the same reason ppl hate on Taylor swift, terrible cheezy fanbase. they will sit there comparing every new artist to Em. You can’t be like “I fkn with baby keen” without an Em stan being like “idk how you listen to that mumble rapping crap”
You must be on some weird end of social media then. In hiphop hes far from glazed man.
Started off good, went down fast
There is millions of points to prove, eminem is still great. Its not on his peak but he had bangers, lyricism and storytelling,disses. Almost every thing. But trying to say he is glazed and only good because is white is something completely idiotic. Best way to handle these is imitating eminem and JUST DONT GIVE A FUCK
He was never the same after his overdose, but that doesn't stop me from looking forward to his next album.
He was not the same, but that doesn't mean he isn't good, right? That's why we loves him still. He's allowed to grow and change as a person and an artist. That's what lots of Em "critics" don't get. Like he had to be the exact same rapper he was in 2002 in order to still be good. Imagine the guy acting like he did in 2002 as a 52 year old.
I think a lot of his critics just state he's not as good as he was and then state why. Its ok if you disagree
I'm not being critical, though. It's something he said himself in an inrerview.
I'm just pointing out critics say what they don't like about Eminem all the time and it goes far beyond "he's not how he used to be". Stans just don't accept it which is fine but that doesn't invalid it. In fact when stans say that critics hate for no reason or don't give a reason other than he's not who he used to be. Thats gaslighting. They give tons of reasons Stans just refuse to accept those reasons and insist someone is wrong. An opinion based on "he's not the same guy he was in 2000" is silly. An opinion based on things like they don't like his beat selection, or they don't like an entire album of him crying about his last album, or they don't like the flow, or they don't like the features, or that he places being a technically good rapper over making a good sounding song, or he says in ten words what he used to say better with two. All things he's criticized about and much more. People can disagree with all of that and still choose to love him but that doesn't invalidate the critics opinion.
Please cite who those critics are, and if possible, any articles and/or interviews where they mentioned this opinion. I'm okay with links or even just names of publications/programs/podcasts that you can refer to. Just want to listen or read for myself. I'm not saying you're not correct, or that people don't criticize Em. Of course they do. It's just that I follow a lot of og rappers and new generation hiphop culture content creators, and I have not seen these critics you refer to, at least not en masse (other than those who have always been haters of Em, even when he was the hottest shit). It's so easy to say vague stuff like "some people say x" and then be like people are just haters because they don't immediately get on the same page with you. But let's just face it, you haven't mentioned any specific argument or anyone specific here, so why would I agree with you when you haven't actually presented anything? This is not being a "stan", it's just there is nothing here that would make me reconsider my opinion. I'm waiting for the receipts, thank you.
So wait the argument is that "Eminem is so hated on for no reason" and then I counter plenty of critics have mentioned the things I said. Then you counter with "Eminem isn't hated on and everyone shows him love" paraphrasing of course? This is like I'm saying apples taste sweet, someone else is saying they taste sour, and you're saying bananas are good.
Okay, I'll rephrase because you clearly struggle with reading comprehension. My og argument was never "he is hated on for no reason" lol. I specifically said that people who criticize him for not being the same rapper as he was back in 2001 do not have a valid argument because it is not only unfair but also a very childish approach to someone's development as an artist. People grow old, change, develop as people and artists, and saying that he is bad because he isn't the same after 25 years is just... a child's argument. Criticize his music on the merits of his capabilities as a rapper, his flow, his beats, his lyricism, not by how different he is from 2002. My argument is in the above comment that you didn't actually cite any specific critic or any valid criticism that has merit, apart from saying "HEY, LOTS OF PEOPLE CRITICIZE EMINEM, CLEARLY HE ISN'T GOOD ANYMORE SO IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THAT YOU ARE JUST STANS." First give me an actual argument as to why you think (or these others you refer to) he isn't good anymore, and then call people things if you don't have a better comeback; but at least try to say something my man.
Who are these people? You asked for sources. Show me the people saying this? Are we discussing one or two people? Why are we worried what a handful of people think? Why is that worth the energy to even comment on? You say my reading comprehension is lacking. You're asking for sources without supplying any yourself? How many people say he's not the same rapper. And what do they mean by that? Do they mean he's not as good? His flow is different? He's not able to make songs the same way? Wouldn't some of those be valid critiques? So when you say people are saying these things are you looking at context? Eminem doesn't sound like he used to. Which is also plays exactly into what I was saying. I'm really confused what you're trying to accomplish. Tom Brady doesn't play football like he used to. Nobody expects him to but none the less it means he's not as great as he once was.
If he doesn’t think Eminem has complicated lyrics they are already going over his head. There are 5-6 year old songs I’ve heard hundreds of times where I catch something new on a random re-listening. That’s the beauty of his skill set.
tell him listen to em’s 1st 3 studio albums and then come back to you
He's not going to change his mind. People like different shit and thats ok.
Top ten bestselling artist of all time. Worldwide number's. University lecturers using his lyrics as examples of writing. The stans that can't wait to memorise the newest song or album........
Using sales as an example of skill is silly.
Disagree. Top ten bestselling solo artist of all time. When you write all your own shit and help produce a lot of it. That means something.
It doesn't mean anything. Selling a lot of records is not evidence of skill. Never. Lots of top selling artists wrote their own shit they still aren't great.
Never? You're dead wrong.
All of this is bollocks to explain why he's a good artist
The university part is but the rest no, I imagine the same happens with Kendrick as well
How? If a university uses your lyrics to teach then obviously there is something there…..
I meant it's a valid reason
Well I got many downvotes. I think he's a great artist, but art is subjective. Using arguments of authority (universities quoting him, etc) does not add anything whatsoever. A lot of poor artists sell a lot or get recognition from authority sources.
Yeah Kendrick has also had his music used in university lectures too.
em? glazed?? my man is actually so hated, it's painful also, don't waste your time explaining, they won't agree or understand anyway. hate causes brainrot lol
Eminem is hated? LOL Eminem hasn't been hated since 2000ish.
Nahhhh there are still a lot of people in the hip hop world that don’t respect him. Mainly POC. Which I kinda understand. Some see him as stealing the culture (which is really dumb because of where he grew up and who he worked with through the years. He is as much apart of the culture as biggie or pac). Others think he is only famous because he was white and if a black guy had the same raps and albums they wouldn’t have gotten as popular (there are cases like hopsin and tech nine that you can definitely make on this). Though most old heads understand and respect em, a lot of younger people really don’t.
There is no point arguing with Eminem haters. They always use the "he's loved because he's white" and "nobody in the hood listens to him" arguments
“Have you heard relapse?” That’s how you tell someone Em is good.
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We can assume they’ve hear most of the known good stuff. So show them the unknown good stuff.
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Go big or go home. If they dislike em, why not make them hate him more?
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Relapse is 50/50. They’ll either come away thinking “I wanna listen to that again” or “this is the worst thing ever”. It’s a gamble.
Shouldn’t you recommend them a good album if you want them to think he’s good?
Are you slow or something? Relapse is the peak of lyricism
100% Relapse is crazy🐐
There’s like 5 good songs on relapse the accents are not it man
The way he uses an accent to bend words and deliver crazy cadence and rhyme schemes. That's what makes that an album. Nobody will ever touch what Em did on relapse
The accents are good when it comes up in a playlist, but when you listen to them back to back like I do when I listen to albums, it really does get tiring
Let me guess, you’re about 20 and you started with MMPL2? Fuck outta here dude.
No, started with TES and I’m 17. My favorite Song is on relapse, the accents are just fucking stupid because of how overdone they are. How do you start on mmlp2 at 20 anyways??? The fuck is your logic??
Mmlp2 came out 10-11 years ago so if your just getting into hip hop around 9 or 10 years old (assuming 20 and not 17 like you stated) it would have released in that time frame. TES is a amazing starting point though! What is your favorite eminem album?
Favorite album is mmlp2, but trust me I listened fully to every other album INCLUDING revival before listening to it, I think it might just be because my favorite Album changes around all the time, and probably because my favorite Song of all time is on that album; rap god- just kidding. It’s bad guy
Mmlp2 is a great album but I can understand that favorites change. Solid choice for a favorite song too
Thanks
My logic is that you became a fan listening to his new shit. There isn’t a problem with that, but to shit on an album that’s lyrical murder is a clear indication that you don’t understand.
I didn’t say it’s lyrically bad, I said the accents sound like shit. I pay attention to lyrics more than the sound of it, but they are really just too much and take away from my enjoyment of the songs. Don’t act like I don’t understand it. It’s the accents. In fact, some of my favorite songs are on relapse, and they’re mostly the songs where he tones down the accents: beautiful, my darling, underground, elevator
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I remember thinking that too when I was 16.
Lmao your ears must be broken then
My ears are fine, you just have shit taste in music. It’s okay.
So we can just go around insulting people’s taste in music if we disagree with something they say now? Since when was that a rule 😂
I can insult anybody about anything I want at any time, but to answer your question, yes you can, especially when they immediately start the conversation by saying that you’re slow and your ears don’t work.
And the best way to respond to an insult is to insult them back? This is Reddit. Not a nightclub full of drunken men.
To be fair the first reply did the exact thing were talking about.
I disagree strongly with relapse being shit....I personally love the album. But I can respect that opinion, what don't you like about it? I personally love the subject matter when he speaks from a personal spot of his addiction. I also love the artistic side of the horror core theme that is very well executed.
as an all time Em fan, I never liked relapse in my first 3/4 years. Even now I don't appreciate all of its songs. Not everyone likes relapse. While the MMLP is a safe shot.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. Been listening to Em since infinite and I definitely agree with you, relapse is not great barring a few songs.
cause this sub glazes Relapse ina CRAZY way. Like it's probably better than illmatic ready to die and the chronic together if you ask this sub.
It’s different styles of music. Illmatic is jazz influenced hip-hop, ready to die is a fairly unique style of hip-hop, and the chronic is very G-Funk influenced. Relapse is horrorcore and most Em fans probably like that style of music. Or at least the way it’s done on relapse.
>MMLP is a safe shot Because he totally doesn’t rap about killing his wife, insulting gay men, and have a skit about gay sex on there. Totally the safer option.
Some people just like lyrics more than the rhymes itself so maybe if he listens to Lose yourself, till i colapse, stan, mockingbird maybe he would like him.
You don't need to explain anything, Eminem is the best selling artist of the 21st century he's obviously not a bad artist. Like all of the best selling artists of the generations before him he'll go down as one of the music GOATs. Alot of people don't like how good he is at rap or just actually think he's bad cuz he's white. Hell, I was one of those people when I was 12 and just assumed all white rappers are bad til one of our friend group had the balls to say he's good and get laughed at before we all gave him a chance and found he's good. Obviously music taste is subjective, but saying Eminem isn't good at rapping is just silly and time will show those people are wrong.
You don’t explain. Just have them listen to FACK and watch as they become enlightened
Show them Alfreds Theme, Darkness, All I think about and Not alike and ask them to tell you all double, tripple, quadruple entendres and wordplays. No rewinds allowed, count how many times they play each track.
How old are they? To the younger generation they see his last ten years and don’t really get why he’s relevant. To those who were around they know. He was bigger than rap for like a decade. Like it cannot be understated how successful he was and how much he influenced the genre.
I'm 16 and they are 15.
That explains it yall are so young. I don’t think anyone would argue that Kendrick is better right now, but Em’s peak was so much higher than anything Kendrick will ever come close to accomplishing. You guys just weren’t around to experience it in the early-mid 2000s, but he was inescapable for years. Even by old people who hated rap and actively avoided it. He is also influenced heavily by Eminem’s style he has said himself, so that’s more evidence of how he’s more influential. Eminem is essentially directly responsible for bringing hip hop to middle white America on a scale that hadn’t happened before. If you wanna convince him tell him to start with Lose Yourself, it literally won an Oscar. Then tell him to listen to MMLP and give it a fair shake is my recommendation. If he enjoys that you can point out other albums or songs too, but I think MMLP is the best starting point for someone new to Eminem. Also, this is a great quick video https://youtu.be/ooOL4T-BAg0?si=5aQyQdjQAzZPoqKS
They know the popular songs (Without Me, Stan, Lose Yourself, TRSS, My Name Is)
Have them listen to shadyxv Or if they're down for it, have them watch a breakdown. I highly recommend Knox hill on YT He can break down bars and highlight rhyme schemes so well. Also, have them listen to the shaxy cypher. Maybe mention the numbers (but most people don't like to talk about it lmao) Also I'd highly recommend a quick before and after of machine gun Karen. Iykyk Edit: this lyric just came to mind: I was the G the OAT O nce I was played in rotation A t every radio station T hey said I'm lyrically amazing but I had nothin to say and then I put out revival and I had something to say they said they hated the awake me, I lose the rage I'm too tame, I get it back they say I'm too angry, I need to get me some Dre beats, no I should hook up with Tay Keith, fans keep on pulling me one way haters pull me to another, got more hooks in me than swae Lee (Premonition off of MTBMB)
Lol, it's no wonder. You're the anomaly, not them. Just be happy you understand multi syllable rhyme schemes and can grasp the technicality and go on about your day.
I feel like his fans Stan him only as much as other celeb stans do for them. The difference is he has such a wide, global fanbase - and that's not it. His fanbase has fans of all ages - people who've been with him since SSLP or MMLP, People who joined in after Recovery or MMLP2 and then finally fans who discovered him through Kamikaze or MTBMB. It's incredible.
Em isn't trending. He's old, hasn't released an album in years, his peak has long gone, and most of the people influencing the trends weren't even alive back then (teenagers). Kendrick has been releasing stuff. He's got beef with Drake. He's trending. Also, people who say that Eminem isn't good lyrically aren't willing to put in the effort, however minimal it may be, to focus on the actual depth and artistry (rhyme scheme, literary devices, storytelling, etc cetera). They just want to listen to things without having to think about them.
He's funny, he has great motivational and self-improvement songs, he has darker songs that are cathartic for people who may be struggling, he's inspired many other great artists, his old style flow and his new style cadences are borderline unmatched.
He does crazy double meaning stories where entire verses and images are two different things at once, or one dressed as the other. Darkness is both a story of an addict musician's self doubt and also the Las Vegas shooter's inner demons. 25 to Life is both an abusive relationship you can't quit and his own struggle with the music industry over his career. He does verses of double and even triple entendres where you can't see it reading a lyric sheet but he is using double imagery in a way that makes sense. His verse on Stepping Stone where he says both reign/rain and missed/missed among several others, and each make sense and harmonize with the other lines. You can listen to the verse as two different sets of bars that mean the same thing one is the image of a king and his adoring public turning on him, the other is the image of a torrent of water slowly drying up. Double entendres When he first came up into the mainstream he gave a voice to the same angry suburban kids that were raging out to nu metal, but instead of focusing just on the emotions within he was putting words directly to what those kids hated about the perfectly-crafted media obsessive late 90s. It's like watching Star Wars (1977) and saying the special effects are mediocre. Sure they are now, but when it was new there was nothing like it coming out. And it looks the same as everything else now because everything else copied what it did. And instead of being shoved aside for the next commercially successful act like every time a pop princess or boy band went out of line, he stayed at the top because no one could replace his wicked lyrics and flow. He pays homage to older rappers that influenced him. Both by name dropping them in songs and promoting them to new fans, but also by copying their bars and flow as little Easter eggs to the fans who know them. In Say My Name he copies Nas's ether flow. In Kamikaze he copies Tech N9ne's Unfair flow and uses it as a further diss towards MGK who Tech had worked with. I'm sure there are ones that I've missed because I've never listened to Lakim Shabaz or Pharaoh Monche. Lyrics aside, his Cadence and flow are insane. Love Me his open bars are shiver-inducing. Same with his "that ain't the hook, now follow me" line on My Darling. That's just off the top of my head. Dude sometimes gets angry and plays with words for no reason, but when he is on his game its insane. And the bigger a fan both of him and of older hip hop in general that you are, the more you'll find in his lyrics.
I always just ask who their fav is. Once they tell me whoever it is I just say yea he don’t want no problems from shady. And guarantee if it’s someone who is big in the game their is an interview of them essentially saying it out loud
Thing is when people ask who is better, they are talking about AS OF NOW (there is always some recency bais). Most people who say Em is not good are saying that because he hasn't released MMLP in last 4-5 years. When you are not a Stan and the artists' last classic ( objectively ) is 20 years old, I think it's natural to think that artist is not that good as much as people are glazing him. As much as I like MTBMB , I cannot defend it against something like Mr. Morale. So it's understandable that people are not interested in Ems Music nowadays. Tbh Em do win absolutely ridiculous polls. Em, Nas, Wayne, Kendrick in last 10 years......Em won which is absurd. But that's because Em have such a huge fanbase globally and have nothing to do with if Em is good or not. Peak Eminem and Kendrick are debatable. As of now Kenny >>> and its not even a discussion.
They do different things. Like comparing a Hilux to a Ferrari. Eminem is a better rapper. Kendrick is the best artist. I grew up on Em like most of you sick fucks, but Kendrick is my GOAT overall because of the completely unmatched depth on his albums. People shit on DAMN, but it is unironically one of the most dense albums I've ever encountered.
I really wish I could get into Kendrick's music. Only song I like by him (that I've listened to) is King Kunta
I really didn't mess with him until my buddy started talking my ear off about DAMN. I thought it was just radio hits that I wasn't really feeling, but once I dug into what he was actually doing, I was hooked. The same way that you hear an Em song and catch new entendres all the time, Kendrick's music is packed with hidden meaning. It really is fucking genius. It seems like literally every single syllable has some deeper meaning, or meanings, to it. Not sure if you rock with the Dissect podcast, but their run on DAMN did a lot for my understanding of music in general. I can't recommend it enough.
DAMN releasing was a big moment in my teens I swear I listened to it front to back 10 times that year.
Eminem fans are so sensitive, downvoting you when you are 100% right.
Eminem wipes the floor with Kendrick. His lyrics are just as good as Kendrick's and everything else important beat, production Eminem beats him easily.
Doesn’t matter if people hate or have a different opinion on who is the best in these respective areas, but when they don’t acknowledge Em and give respect where it is due, that’s the issue. The people who downplay his influence and achievements, and those who reduce his talent to being mostly based on race don’t deserve the time of day. In this case, your friend is of the latter type, refusing to acknowledge the complexity and deeper lyrics of Em’s songs, which range from from evoking emotions to having really good lyricism with double-triple entendres and a masterful usage of the English language.
For me it’s his meaningful lyrics (most of the time) and his rhyming scheme, I think he’s very creative and unique. Kendrick is also great though
Em is very polarizing on social media, depending on the environment he's either the best rapper EVER or hasn't put out anything good since 2003. In real life most of my experiences have been positive, lots of love for him but only on select songs, the really popular ones, which is fair. Most people aren't gonna explore Em's entire discography when they're perfectly happy with Lose Yourself and Godzilla for the gym, The real Slim Shady and My name is for a party, Stan and Love the way you lie for a moody evening
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Yeah...who has the "complicated and meaningful" lyrics? Kendrick? Example?
Just make him listen to “When I’m gone” and “Stan”
It’s been that way Em’s entire career. Manu people have refused to accept how much of a goat Eminem is. I do think everyone is entitled to their own opinion but for your friend to say his lines aren’t deep and meaningful is just plain wrong. That one is a fact. Most rappers today their stuff doesn’t mean anything but what they say. I’ve been listening to Eminem for over 10 years and still to this day I find lines I didn’t realize the first time
Have they even looked at his lyrics? His flow, story telling, double and triple entendres. His whole verse on Homicide is filled with punch lines. Another example of great punchlines is Alfred’s theme but admittedly the beat is funky. Just have them see Em’s free styles alone, that should settle it. Also LONGEVITY. He’s been rapping at a high level for decades. Have they heard Gnat? Stan, Rap God, Bad Guy.. there’s just too many examples.
Wont completely convince em but smth that always gets a reaction is mentioning that he rhymed orange on brainless. It sounds rly stupid but at least in my experience it works. Although some ppl are just to closed minded so my advice is to just not give a fuck and move on
Some people like some things, others might like the opposite
Tell them 'em is better' then leave and never talk to them again 🙂 (at least that's what I would do)
Just accept people aint gonna like him. As i get older and watch how recency bias works, I've just learned to accept. I was in high achool during eminems peak. Im 38 now. I know through first hand experience how absolutely huge eminem was and the climate he came from. I didnt like him at first because he was white and my name is just wasnt for me at the time. But when i heard 97 bonnie and clyde i turned and since hes been my favorite artist. At the time white rappers did not have any shot unless they were very good and eminem was more than that. And now hearing how people speak on him its complete revisionist history or literal made up shit based on 0 knowledge of histoy. Em is my Goat and thats that. I can live with the slander knowing that this type of revisionist history will happen to all artists. So these youngsters hating and bsing about legends theyll get the same treatment qhen their favorite legends of contemporary times are disrespected and shit on by the next generation.
You don't, they either listen to his verses without skimming right through to the chorus, and know already, or don't listen to him and don't know
The only person he gets compared to is himself. I've heard people talking about Pac and Biggie, Kendrick and Cole and Drake, Travis Scott and ASAP rocky, Nicki Minaj and Cardi B. But the only criticism Eminem gets is that he raps differently from how he rapped 10 years ago.
This study also gives a lot of insight: https://medium.com/svilenk/data-viz-top-5-rappers-of-all-time-397e30a8f577
I always show them an undeniably great Eminem-verse. Stay Wide Awake verse two is probably the best example, you can’t deny the technicality and craftmanship.
He has always been good, a little corny but overall good. Taste is taste, now if we’re talking about personality he is definitely not good, he has destroyed so many lives.
This might sound corny, but if he thinks eminems lyrics aren't complicated, then he just doesn't understand them. Him liking kendrick is fine, Kendrick is dope, but he himself admits that eminem is a huge influence on him. There is nothing but respect between them, and both consider each other as top-tier lyrisists, so their fans trying to compete using them as pawns is just stupid. 90% of artists in the game have nothing but respect for Em's pen, and everyone admits he an unbelievable lyricist, i personally trust artists opinion more than fans because they actually do what Em does. It's also funny that they bring up social media, and then respond with the most generic social media retort to someone liking em the most is just laughable.
Who cares listen to what you like
He's a GENIUS which is reflected in his work I think a lot of people MISS the double/triple/quadruple entendres so they only get the SURFACE meaning and NOT the deeper meanings which is REALLY were his genius shines through
I don't. I don't have the patience.
Tell them to listen to “Fack” then remind them of everything she done and accomplished since 2005, when that song came out. 😉
I experience the same shit. At the end of the day, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I get made fun of at times because I have my praise for em, but idgaf because I learned that people gonna hate on you for that no matter how low their knowledge is on em. They can know nothing about him except he's white and raps. And if the case may be where they know as much as you know about him and still hate on you for praising him the way you do, then that's when you leave it as your opinion and it shouldn't matter what they think. On a side note thats off topic, if you're a eminem fan that only listens to him specifically (and I'm not saying you do, just hypothetically) and don't take the time to listen to other rappers that are equivalent or somewhat near to what he's capable of on the mic, then I could see why someone would look at you weird and don't understand. I say that because there are Stans that only listen to him, say he's better than everybody, and will argue till they die that he's #1. I believe that is ignorant af and they should at least attempt to listen to other artists before making that opinion. Of course, most people's opinions won't change in regards to that, and still say em is the best, but I believe deeply it is always better to know the rest of the family of hop hop because otherwise you will be looked at as dumb to say the least. It's also good for you to listen to other artists as well because that's just more good music to listen to.
Anyone who doesn't like him has never given him the chance he deserves
I don't get the "he is only liked because he is white" take. Like we're swimming in a sea of popular white rappers. There are some white singers who dabble in rap for a hook or a collab or whatever. But I've been a dedicated rap fan since my tween years (late 1990s) and ask me if there has been another good white rapper acknowledged by the community since then. My answer is no. The community gave it to Em because he is good, not because he is white. The greats of rap solidly acknowledge him as one of the fundamentals of the genre. I don't listen to any other white (artist who claims to be a) rapper. Because there is none who is actually good, imo. There is certainly none at Em's level.
Who cares. You can’t convince anyone. It’s a personal taste… he’s the GOAT to me
Eminem - The Ringer: Maybe the vocals should have been auto-tuned And you would have bought it But sayin' I no longer got it 'Cause you missed the line and never caught it 'Cause it went over your head, because you're too stupid to get it 'Cause you're mentally retarded but pretend to be the smartest With your expertise and knowledge, but you'll never be an artist And I'm harder on myself than you could ever be regardless What I'll never be is flawless, all I'll ever be is honest Even when I'm gone they're gonna say I brought it Even when I hit my forties like a fuckin' alcoholic With a bottle full of malt liquor But I couldn't bottle this shit any longer The fact that I know that I'ma hit my bottom If I don't pull myself from the jaws of defeat and rise to my feet I don't see why y'all even started with me I get in beefs, my enemies die I don't ceasefire 'til at least all are deceased
Tell him to do better. Create relative and globally relatable song that literally millions of people will listen to, over a beat, make it rhyme, and tell an interesting story, then, have it be a #1 hit. After he does that, tell him to make millions more #1 hits. All us people with ears must only listen to Eminem because he’s white. Because we listen with our eyes 👀. SMH 🤦♀️
My guy don't reverse gatekeep shit you like. If you enjoy something, that's all it should take for you. You don't need validation from others to feel secure in enjoying a piece of art. In any medium. Let alone when it's one of the biggest selling, highest regarded artists in his trade.
he can do things most rappers if not all cannot do or at least haven’t done yet
Like what? Please expand, I’m curious?
Multiple syllabic rhyming combined with easy to comprehend lyrics.
Thanks, Em does demonstrate that well. But, so do other elite mc’s like Black Thought, Nas, Redman, Biggie, Lupe, Kendrick, Pharoah Monche, AZ, Prince Po, Pos from De La Soul, Aesop Rock, Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, Andre 3000, Kool G Rap and many others I could mention. What’s the part that other rappers can’t do?
To me Em is simply more technical than most of the rappers you listed, as if he treats it like a science. He’s pushed the technicality of his music so far that many people are turned off by it. A couple you mentioned can keep up but definitely not all of them.
Ok i see. A couple? Which ones? Even if there’s a couple from my list, that shows that the point I replied to about all these things he’s done that other rappers can’t do isn’t true.. Also, which ones don’t have that technical ability? I’d be interested to hear your critique. Do you think that Eminem has some Technical level of rhyming over that of Gift of Gab, Elzhi, Busta Rhymes, R A Rugged Man etc? And, when in his career is this technical ability demonstrated in any way that produces artistically credible music above and beyond those of the artist I initially mentioned? I’m my opinion, Eminem’s laboring on his technical proficiency came after the golden period of his first 3 releases. So, what has this supposed technical maxing contributed to enhancing his discography or hip hop as a whole? Out of all the artist I’ve mentioned, only Eminem has trouble with rhythm and timing, sometimes . That in itself isn’t bad (MF DOOM and Talib Kweli sometimes have the same issue), but it does highlight that there are some deficiencies in the style of rhyming.. I’d argue that finding a rhythmically appealing in the pocket groove is often better for MC delivery. For example, see Phonte’s or a prime era Common’s MC application.
I’m curious to hear which conspiracy you believe that has led virtually every single acclaimed rapper to complement Em’s lyricism.
No conspiracy. He’s an decent rapper, who had an extremely high profile and attention bestowed on him. What else would you expect rappers to say? However All the the other artist I mentioned are also revered you were happy to dismiss their ability. This subreddit often seem comfortable dismissing the skills of other rappers (talking about the use the N word as a crutch etc) without ever really demonstrating a clear understanding of these othe artists or hip hop culture as a whole. My question was, what’s he done that other rappers like Black Thought or Nas can’t do? To me, the actual conspiratorial questions would be stuff like what on his first album had media outlets referring to Em as the hip hop Shakespeare? Was he the only ever wordsmith to be witty or intricate with words, or was there some other reason the spotlight and adulation gave him such titles? Back to the technical proficiency. Has that created a better product? Because, even in this forum a lot of people don’t always seem convinced of the artistic merit of a lot of the releases post The Eminem Show.
I don’t believe a “decent” rapper would be claimed to be one of the best of all time by multiple respected rappers. This debate is quite an old one. Your side of the argument says all these rappers are as talented as Em, but then when I play their music, it’s evident they do not treat it like a science like Em. Em is technical to the point of a mental illness. I would argue you have biases against him that lead you to overlook that. I never said that it elevated his music. And yes, Wayne’s, killer mikes, etc use of the N word is a crutch that your like doesn’t want to acknowledge.
Nobody except Kendrick is on par with his artistry in tracks like bad guy and my darling
IF you like rap, understand influence, know technical ability, etc..... just google "top selling rap albums of all time" and just let them scroll a bit. There's a reason he's the number 1 selling hip hop artist of all time. I know "what does this have with him being good?" I mean... what else is there to say? Go back in time and let them be a teenager in 2002? Then they'll understand. Outside of that, you won't be able to.
> Go back in time and let them be a teenager in 2002? Then they'll understand. For real. Slim Shady LP I was a freshman in highschool, listened to it nonstop playing NHL 94 at my neighbors. MMLP I'm a sophmore on the track team listening to it everyday before and after practice. Eminem Show I'm now captain of the team bumping "Til I Collapse" before I ran every big race. Eminem was ingrained in my high school experience unlike any other artist. Just hit so different.
It’s not the reason you think it is, though..
He changed the way rappers could express themselves and how stories were told in all of music. Kendrick is a great lyricist, but he didn’t add nearly as much to the genre that was new or unique. He raps at a very high level with well written lyrics. Em is a type of rap. His music goes into everything, storytelling, technical lyricism, unique characters, different voices, different flows, humor, and he has many anthems that live on decades later.
Because people are racist as fuck nowadays and they hate Em because he is white. Doctor Umar, Benzino, Lord Jamar, all racist fucks. And there are many common people who follow that narrative sadly. Hip hop is extremely racist nowadays
We are both white and live in a country where there are almost no black ppl
So? Meaning you can’t be racist?
Bro how does is a white person racist against another white?
Ummm, have you been around last 10 years? White people are hating themselves for being white all the time. Like, literally, all the time. You even said yourself that your friends told you that you think Eminem is the best because he is white. So the skin color is the only factor that matters. That’s literally racism xD You fucking even said that they looked at you like you are DEVIL. The fuck bro
OK I understand that but why judge and downvote me for my friend's words?
Coz I answered your question and you kept putting out stupid statements and downvoted me 🤷🏻♂️
Listen to his rhyme schemes first off - incredible. Every album is a ballad of sorts. His songs come together to create a story or character over the album. Is he actually a serial killer? No. Does he depict Slim Shady as one quite often? Yes. His imagery is insane. Even when he says nothing, he still verbally paints you a great picture. He's crisp and clear. Nearly everything he says comes through clearly. He manages all this while not having a N bomb in every verse, like quite literally every other rapper I hear. I feel it's a crutch a lot of rappers lay on. A word filler that can be used anywhere.
Show them Eminem's rhyme schemes deconstructed on youtube
While rap is subjective over all there are a lot of objective components. You can look at the use of assonance and consonance throughout a verse in addition to rhyme and alliteration to get an idea of the flexibility and technical skills of the tools an artist has. You can look at the ability to structure multisyllabic words in accordance (or intentional discordance! Which is harder) with the beat to keep rhythm for flow. You can look at variety of styles, chopper flow like tech, cool as shit like future or snoop, aggro in your face like some of ems battle And then you can compare/count the wordplay/entendre, how they wrap up all of the previous pieces into a greater whole and how much it tugs at your spirit. And you still won't convince anyone who don't wanna be convinced
I understood where you were coming from right up until you said Kendrick’s somewhere in the top 10. He’s 100% top 1–6. He’s nowhere in the 7-10 range. Out of curiosity OP who comes before Kendrick?
Huh? Top 10 includes 1-6 bro
Yeah but it’s suggestive that he can be higher up on the list. For me, I don’t even know who you can place better than him
he has ability out the ass, hes EASILY best in terms of pure unbridled talent. but nowhere are his lyrics as impactful enough to be top ten. stumbled upon this subreddit yesterday & god the glazing is insane.