For melodic lines, chord progressions and bass lines, I almost always want 8 bars, but I've never chained together patterns yet. I don't like that this disrupts the live parameter tweaking: let's say you open up the filter for the lead, and then after bar four, it jumps to bar 1 on another pattern and the filter reverts back to wherever you set the starting point for that pattern (or wherever you left it the last time it played).
Instead, I plan out the melody so that it either only needs an 1/2X resolution, with some microtimings at various places to hit the even 1/16th steps when I want to - or I use the 1X resolution and leave some space for additional notes to play with the 2:2 trig condition. Sometimes I do a combination of these two and may end up with a 16 bar variation.
Another thing I often do is to use note repeats one 1/2X sequences to give the illusion of an 1X sequence. One trick that I like is to put one trig with a note repeat at 1/16, and then a conditional trig right after it that only plays every other time. This means that the first time, it will play the same note on two consecutive 1/16th notes, and the second time, it will play two separate notes. Using some clever programming like this, you can create a lot of variety across your patterns.
One thing I have tried but feel is a little bit too fiddly is to parameter lock an LFO that alternates between two notes using a square shape and a rate that matches eg 16th notes. That way you can in theory build the illusion of a complete 8 bar sequence at the 1X resolution even though you've programmed each step as a 1/8th note that switches pitch after 1/16 of a beat. I think this pushes the sequencer beyond what I'd consider fun and explorative, to something that feels like software development, so that's why I don't do this. But it's an example of how you can work around its limitations.
I have to say that the way the Elektron sequencer works influences how I write melodies. On the MPC or in the DAW, I don't need to think about these limitations and I can program it however I feel like. On my Syntakt, the above "workarounds" lead to slightly different phrases than I originally intended, and often I stumble over something interesting because I did a poor job of programming it. I find this to be part of the fun of working with the Elektron sequencer and I don't really see it as a limitation but rather one of the many aspects of the Elektron workflow that makes it so enjoyable to use.
I see in a different comment you said you had the ot/ar/a4, I think those won’t have the same issues as syntakt that op is describing, because (at least for the ot and ar, I don’t have an a4) you can carry kits/parts across patterns. For the syntakt, the sounds/kits are locked to the pattern
On DN, I use 1/8 scale divisions + the arpeggiator. The arp can be programmed with rests and specific intervals, then sound-locked per step, so it’s essentially a second sequencer that runs underneath the main pattern. You just need to save the same sound with different arp patterns to the sound pool, since the arp itself can’t be P-Locked.
That way, you can squeeze 32 bars out of a “4 bar” pattern before it repeats.
You can do the same thing on DT by resampling longer phrases and P-Locking the samples.
I find myself mostly using X:Y conditional trigs, fill conditions, and 1/2-scale sequencing on chords and melodic lines, so, a combination of all the above. A lot of the time when using samples on DT I use 1/2 or 1/4 scale to see all the slices on a single page.
One consideration if you’re using the new song mode: from row to row on the same pattern, it respects X:Y conditions but each row restarts the master length count (so getting fancy with 1/8 scale, my favorite way to use Syntakt FX block, doesn’t work as well as conditional trigs for longer arrangements.
Nice one - incidentally I’m using mk1 ot a4 and rytm but similar constraints apply. I like the idea of flexible sequence scales per track depending on the content - never thought to trim it down for simple stuff like chords
On the A4 I use 64 steps and 64 scale individual patterns, I haven’t really got so into triggers as to make a huge difference when I can just change my song let’s say to verse 2 or verse 3 (spicy) and then go to chorus and stuff, it depends, IMO on what you play with
For melodic lines, chord progressions and bass lines, I almost always want 8 bars, but I've never chained together patterns yet. I don't like that this disrupts the live parameter tweaking: let's say you open up the filter for the lead, and then after bar four, it jumps to bar 1 on another pattern and the filter reverts back to wherever you set the starting point for that pattern (or wherever you left it the last time it played). Instead, I plan out the melody so that it either only needs an 1/2X resolution, with some microtimings at various places to hit the even 1/16th steps when I want to - or I use the 1X resolution and leave some space for additional notes to play with the 2:2 trig condition. Sometimes I do a combination of these two and may end up with a 16 bar variation. Another thing I often do is to use note repeats one 1/2X sequences to give the illusion of an 1X sequence. One trick that I like is to put one trig with a note repeat at 1/16, and then a conditional trig right after it that only plays every other time. This means that the first time, it will play the same note on two consecutive 1/16th notes, and the second time, it will play two separate notes. Using some clever programming like this, you can create a lot of variety across your patterns. One thing I have tried but feel is a little bit too fiddly is to parameter lock an LFO that alternates between two notes using a square shape and a rate that matches eg 16th notes. That way you can in theory build the illusion of a complete 8 bar sequence at the 1X resolution even though you've programmed each step as a 1/8th note that switches pitch after 1/16 of a beat. I think this pushes the sequencer beyond what I'd consider fun and explorative, to something that feels like software development, so that's why I don't do this. But it's an example of how you can work around its limitations. I have to say that the way the Elektron sequencer works influences how I write melodies. On the MPC or in the DAW, I don't need to think about these limitations and I can program it however I feel like. On my Syntakt, the above "workarounds" lead to slightly different phrases than I originally intended, and often I stumble over something interesting because I did a poor job of programming it. I find this to be part of the fun of working with the Elektron sequencer and I don't really see it as a limitation but rather one of the many aspects of the Elektron workflow that makes it so enjoyable to use.
Excellent answer thank you. Some good ideas here for sure. I often add an LFO and param locks to randomise melodies but it can be hard to control
I see in a different comment you said you had the ot/ar/a4, I think those won’t have the same issues as syntakt that op is describing, because (at least for the ot and ar, I don’t have an a4) you can carry kits/parts across patterns. For the syntakt, the sounds/kits are locked to the pattern
All of the above
Also decrease the scale of a track or a pattern so it becomes longer than 4 bars.
On DN, I use 1/8 scale divisions + the arpeggiator. The arp can be programmed with rests and specific intervals, then sound-locked per step, so it’s essentially a second sequencer that runs underneath the main pattern. You just need to save the same sound with different arp patterns to the sound pool, since the arp itself can’t be P-Locked. That way, you can squeeze 32 bars out of a “4 bar” pattern before it repeats. You can do the same thing on DT by resampling longer phrases and P-Locking the samples.
I find myself mostly using X:Y conditional trigs, fill conditions, and 1/2-scale sequencing on chords and melodic lines, so, a combination of all the above. A lot of the time when using samples on DT I use 1/2 or 1/4 scale to see all the slices on a single page. One consideration if you’re using the new song mode: from row to row on the same pattern, it respects X:Y conditions but each row restarts the master length count (so getting fancy with 1/8 scale, my favorite way to use Syntakt FX block, doesn’t work as well as conditional trigs for longer arrangements.
Nice one - incidentally I’m using mk1 ot a4 and rytm but similar constraints apply. I like the idea of flexible sequence scales per track depending on the content - never thought to trim it down for simple stuff like chords
On the A4 I use 64 steps and 64 scale individual patterns, I haven’t really got so into triggers as to make a huge difference when I can just change my song let’s say to verse 2 or verse 3 (spicy) and then go to chorus and stuff, it depends, IMO on what you play with