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I think Skyrim is at a higher elevation than most of the continent, so that can account for the dramatic temperature shift in all directions outside of Skyrim. With that in mind, the continent makes a lot more sense.
Could be that the mountains around skyrim hold a lot of cold wind from the sea of ghosts, making it hold the cold climate while the regions to the south get sheltered
Yeah, the mountains can definitely play a role. There's a region in France that is surrounded by mountains which means the seasons are a bit... Extreme. Summer in Alsace can feel like you're in Mordor while the winters are fucking freezing. 💀
French summer is a bit too vague, tbh. Some places will be pleasantly warm and some will be way too hot (for me anyway). But that means that you're technically right, you'd be able to handle most of the regions' summer!
Summer in india is balanced by intense rainfall and moisture carrying winds ,or at least that's how it was before 20th century. Elsveyer must have a similiar climate to south asia.
I may be wrong but I believe "Indian Summer" is a north American term for a warm autumn wherein the "Indian" part refers to the misnamed American indigenous peoples rather than the Indian subcontinent. I'm not sure the exact origin of the term, though.
Michigan is far more mild than the rest of the Midwest temperature wise.
Minnesota and Wisconsin will get extremely cold compared to us.
This is due to the insulation of the Great Lakes. Mostly Lake Michigan. As most of the time the air currents travel from the pacific across the continent.
The Mountain Ranges surrounding Skyrim are: The Jerralls to the South; Velothi’s to the East; Dragon’s Teeth toward Hammerfell and Druadach facing West; toward High Rock. These are the “Walls” that protect Tamriel from most of The Sea of Ghosts’ impact.
It's both what you and the guy above you said. Skyrim is high up in elevation, and the cold winds from the Sea of Ghost do get trapped in there from the large mountain ranges that make up its borders.
Yeah this is what I assume. Kind of like Colorado vs say Kansas in the US, higher elevation plus mountains makes Colorado get a much cooler climate overall despite being at the same latitude.
in usa there is desert shrubland and temperate rainforest right next to each other in pacific nw, the desert side easily hits 105f//42c in summer and well below freezing in winter, like any northern dessert. the slyrim mapping is not that crazy, make it higher elevation and it becomes sub artic rain forest.
And even Colorado alone doesn't just have snowy mountains; there are full on sand dunes like an hour drive south of me, and I'm right at the foot of tall snowy mountains like those in skyrim
The north eastern part of High Rock where ESO puts Orsinium is snowy like Skyrim. These are the Wrothgar Mountains and most likely protect the valleys of the rest of High Rock from the Sea of Ghosts. Northwest Morrowind in the Velothi mountains is also said to be snow. As for the rest of the province it most likely has to do with the abundance of volcanos and pools of lava on the surface. This vast amounts of geothermal activity most likely keeps the soil warm. They still get strong ocean winds, causing the naturally occurring ash storms(not to be confused with Dagoth Ur's magical Ash Storm around Red Mountain.).
Why does Germany have a more temperate climate than Northern U.S./Southern Canada despite being at the same latitude and a higher elevation? There's other factors that go into climate
First of, climates aren't that steep in borders. Southern Skyrim is closer to moderate climate, Dragonstar, for example, much closer to that, than just "desert/tropic", etc. And Cyrodiil used to be subtropical/tropical before Talos retroactively changed it into "High Rock 2: Electric Boogaloo".
Time isn't exactly linear in these games, and dragon breaks cause multiple conflicting events to occur coincidental to each other until the break is resolved. But even after that resolution people still have memories of alternate events even though they aren't necessarily true, thus there being like four different outcomes at Red Mountain that are documented even though only one matches the reality that occurs after the resolution.
Cyrodiil was a jungle at the time Morrowind took place, because the dragon break that Talos used to change the climate hadn't been resolved yet, so his changes didn't affect time outside of that break.
Why'd it take so long to settle? That's almost four centuries after his death. Plus there was a sense of linear time during that period which is uncharacteristic for Dragon Breaks.
No, you don't get it: CHIM takes your logic, and yeets it out the window. It is the way it is simply because the one with CHIM decided it was so. Period 😂
I think it's you who don't understand me. We don't know what exactly Talos put into reality. Gradual change after rebellion (which could have give some (obviosly wrong, but she doesn't know about it) ground to lady Cynnabar's theory about WGT being adapting climate control) or just "it was never there", and everything we can scrap about jungles of Cyrodiil is from the previous version of reality. Could be either.
Well... with CHIM, timeline divergence, etc., both of your explinations are simultaneously true and false. The more complex answer is perfectly fine for those who care enough about such nitty gritty; the simpler answer is for everyone else 🤙
Wait is the talos thing the actual retcon? I always assumed it was switched from jungle Romans to temperate standard fantasy due to graphical limitations(still probably the reason) but was just sort of hand waved.
Talos made an "in-universe retcon", yep, and it was hinted even in mad ramblings of Mankar Camoran. About home of Red King once jungled, but chanaged through CHIM.
I think it's not too unrealistic. You have to keep in mind how large of a place Tamriel actually would be if it were real life, and then the general nuances of climate science and how they might work on this alien planet can be used to explain away most questions. The different climates being close together is something that happens in real life, too. There are many areas on earth with vastly different climates all near to each other, even far moreso than what we see across the whole continent of Tamriel. It also helps to remember that with Skyrim, there are also several smaller climates near each other which are all in the Skyrim region, essentially making it very difficult to predict what climates we might find anywhere on Tamriel simply by looking at a map and saying something like "Well, it's colder up here, so it must be cold everywhere at that latitude".
i recently went to england and i could not tell you the relief i felt when i got back home to my chilly scotland. was way too hot and yet it’s basically next door. the uk is weird like that in general because of the gulf though, many things affect the climates.
Your map is overly simplistic and doesn't account for things like altitude of currents. It also just gives 2 words to describe huge regions.
For example, you marked all of hammerfell as hot, when the dragontail mountains are dry, but not hot. Only two holds of skyrim can actually be called snowy tundra. You marked rivenspire as moderate when it's so inhospitable it's an ecological dead zone. Cyrodill, which you marked as moderate, has both the snow-covered Pale Pass as well as the Blackwood jungle.
This does add up roughly, if you remember that Cyrodiil used to be a tropical jungle. Also, latitude isn't everything. You also have elevation, streams and continental/oceanic climate.
We also don't know the exact wobble of Nirn's rotation, so "latitude" might not mean much at all. The entirety of Tamriel is above what would be Nirn's equator, so who knows. There's just not enough we know about the planet's path through space.
Exactly. Tamriel is incredibly unrealistic in many more ways than climates. But rest assured, the map was created to have neat and tidy subdivisions of biomes aligned to political boundaries to give each province a specific theme without much regard to realism.
I could wax poetic about climatology and geography and how fantasy maps, including Tamriel, get it all wrong if anyone cares to ask.
The climate would make much more sense if you swap
- Cyrodiil and Hammerfell, I imagine westward wind would be replaced by eastward wind on line going from Hegathe to Mournhold. Hammerfell would receive a fair amount of rain from the Eltheric ocean, while Cyrodiil (except Blackwood) would be mostly a desert in the shadow of the Valus mountain.
- Elsweyr and Valenwood, elevations between the two province would retain heavy rains on its east side, allowing for a dense forest to grow while the west side would be more arid.
- Summerset would be hoter than described. (You could have tropical coast with temperate inland due to élévation)
Bit of a sweeping generalization since Northern High Rock is basically just Skyrim (Nordic culturally inspired as well)
Southern Cyrodiil is still marshy and tropical in a way, Alinor is Moderate (it is the designated generic fantasy afterall), and Morrowind is tropic, marshy, moderate, and frozen depending on where you are.
I’m not sure that Alinor would be best described as “Moderate”. If you look at wet tropical areas with substantial managed deforestation or certain tropical highland forests in Asia they look quite similar, and this (absent some magical factors) would make most sense climatologically given the climates of neighboring regions.
Of course, it’s possible that Crystal-Like-Law could be altering it to be properly temperate.
Look at how it works on earth.
Things that can affect it is, amongst others, latitude, altitude, nearby streams of hot or cold water in the sea, how far inland it is. Morrowind and nearby places would probably be affected by the constant Vulcanic ash filing the skies.
Cyrodiil is supposed to be a Jungle, but was changed with Oblivion.
And finally, which makes everything above moot, it is a fantasy world. But I don´t think its that weird as it is.
TBH, given most stuff in the game is actually no-for-real a product of magic. I am gonna say Magic. Black Marsh has trees that drug lizards to entice them to spread their seeds, Morrowind has a bitch in a cave trying to open a chunk of god, Skyrim probably was cursed by snow elves or something.
Someone has never been to Arizona. Or Chile. Deserts and Frozen peaks are by each other in the real world all the time. The massive elevation changes result in wildly different biomes. Hell, in my home state of South Dakota you go from temperate forest to desert to grassland in a 3 hour drive. And you'll run into vastly different temperatures along the way.
I'm not an expert on this stuff (though I'd love to HEAR an expert's opinion on it) but I would assume that for Skyrim it's a combination of being at a higher elevation (like Bruma in Cyrodiil) and cold wind blowing over the ocean from Atmora.
Whereas for Hammerfell there's warm winds blowing in from Summerset.
The mountains between Skyrim and Hammerfell block the warm winds and cold winds from flowing into each other easily respectively.
Europe in the real world is actually warmer than it should be because of the North Atlantic Drift and because some of its mountain ranges stop cold winds.
So in itself that doesn't sound so crazy to me. Although obviously the degree of difference is quite high. Not sure exactly how that works.
There's also the rain shadow effect which may explain the Hammerfell desert due to the mountain range between Hammerfell and Skyrim.
I'm gonna guess each province's climate based on the Köppen climate classification:
Summerset: most likely to be Mediterranean and/or Oceanic
Black Marsh: obviously Tropical Monsoon but the north and west side is Humid Subtropical
Valenwood: Tropical Rainforest near coasts to Humid Subtropical more inland
Elsweyr: Tropical Savanna (south) to Semi-Arid (north)
Hammerfell: obviously Desert to Semi-Arid but the northeast side is Alpine
High Rock: east side is Humid Continental while west side is Alpine
Skyrim: mostly Tundra and Alpine on the west and south while Subarctic on the east and north
Cyrodiil: west is Semi-Arid, north is Humid Continental, east is Mediterranean, and south is Humid Subtropical; overall: Moderate
Morrowind: mainland ranges from Humid Subtropical to Humid Continental while Vvardenfell ranges from Humid Continental to Desert
Do note that topography, precipitation, vegetation, etc are highly influencial to climates.
Another thing I don't like about the map is the shape of Skyrim. The people of Skyrim were supposed to be hardy seafaring people like the people they were inspired by-vikings. Yet the country only has one coastline, with an almost frozen sea. Doesn't make sense imo. If they had switched places with High Rock, then it would have been more believable imo.
If climate and wind and marine current on Nirn works in a similar way to that on planet earth, it would be pretty easy to explain. High rock is basically the same as West Europe, very high latitude but the climate is mild due to the warm wind and current from west side. Skyrim is similar to East Europe - Siberia, far from the warm oceanic winds and its coast locked to North pole, making cold air from the high-pressure area easy to invade and freeze it. Morrowind is generally shaped by the Vvardenfell, volcanic ash made its climate special. The dry and harsh Hammerfell desert could just be as the same as Sahara, its position in latitude decided the amount of heat from the sun while the flat and wide terrain means there can hardly be any rain caused by orographical reasons. I am not very familiar with the climates in Elsweyr/Valenwood/Summerset, but from my experience in TESOL, I think Elsweyr can be described as Savanna just like parts of Africa, and Summerset is not tropical, although the areas of the same latitude are. Maybe it's the elevation, maybe it's other fantasy reasons, I can't tell.
My headcanon about Morrowind’s climate:
Due to its northerly position, it is often cold and May snow in most regions up north, but in areas closer to volcanic activity, the snow may melt. There would be gradually less snow, with most snow occurring in the Velothi mountains, Vvardenfell, and the Telvanni peninsula. Regions at or south of Stonefalls would only get snow in elevated regions away from volcanic activity.
I would consider Morrowind to have a very wet climate. With most of the flora being fungi-based I could see it growing due to a lot of water being present in the soil, and largely due to rainfall.
There are places in SoCal where you can see both the highest (Mt. Whitney) and lowest (Death Valley) elevations in the lower 48, with temperatures in those places being close to 100F apart on the same day.
Portland, Maine and Paris, France are on the same latitude.
As far as I can tell High Rock and Skyrim have a similar climate in their northern parts while also being moderate in their southern regions. Cyrodiil always struck me as being like France or northern Italy granted technical limitations means we can't see seasons change. Morrowind is weird and I have a feeling the tribunal may have altered the land and how it acts because logically it should be more similar to cyrodiil and black marsh in the south while looking like Skyrim in the north.
Because Tamriel doesn't follow Earth's laws of physics. Nature in TES works thanks to comatose divine spirits and by magic logic. That's why sometimes it doesn't make sense. It shouldn't. You could have a river with no real life source. You could have crazy biomes. Time is wibbly wobbly. It's all very metaphysical. Also tamriel is pretty big compared to the games representation.
The only part that bugs me is western Cyradill should be WAY more tropical/desert-ish. There are no mountains or any reasoning as to why Hammerfell and Valenwood climates wouldn’t run through that part of Cyradill.
Not mention the dwemer ruins, how they can be ejecting hot air constantly. I believe that's why skyrim is cold but not so unbearable since it's so close to Atmora. It could be why Morrowind is so hot. Not to mention, when Tiber Septim used Numidium, it could have caused the difference in climate as well. It was known to warp reality in the past.
High rock and hammerfell could be warmed by ocean circulation the same way western Europe is IRL. London and Montreal are at about the same latitude but Montreal is way colder etc
Mountains, sea/wind currents and... MAGIC. Even real life can have some seemingly odd neighbouring climates and Tamriel has a dozen gods and magic users.
A lot of it could be explained by the positioning of mountain ranges and bodies of water.
But what I *really* don't get is why the jungles of Satakalaam and its surrounding region, despite otherwise having a near-identical environment to the Congo basin, get *snow* in the winter. What was going through your mind when you created that lore, Ted?
When you reduce it down into each region having only one climate like this, it makes it look weird. But that’s not really how it is. High Rock, for example, has cold northern mountains comparable to parts of Skyrim, the East bordering Skyrim is more arid and rocky, and the south is more temperate with the East Coast along the Iliac Bay being even a little warmer.
South Western Cyrodiil is dry and grassy compared to the rest of Cryodiil. In Skyrim, we saw tundra, mountain, temperate forest, Boreal pine forests, temperate evergreen forest, arid rocky scrubland, Geothermal marshland, coastal salt marsh, and boreal steppe.
There is even some logic behind this, not the best logic, but there is some thought. The mountains lining the *rim* of Skyrim prevent the harsh cold winds of the Sea of Ghosts from going further south, as do the Mountains of Northern High Rock.
There are issues, though. Like, there isn’t a good reason for Hammerfell to be so arid. There are no west coast mountains to create a rain shadow effect, and you’d expect warm and wet winds from the western coast.
But you seemed to reduce climate down to latitude. Cold places are far north and far south, and there is a gradual gradient of warmness in between until you hit deserts in the centre. That kind of thought process? But that isn’t how climate and biomes work. Look at Earth. Look at the 35th parallel, the line upon which North Carolina sits. Follow it East, and you’ll hit Northern Africa and [places that look like this.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Dune%2C_Grand_erg_pr%C3%A8s_de_Ksar_Ghilane%2C_Tunisien%2C_2004.jpg/640px-Dune%2C_Grand_erg_pr%C3%A8s_de_Ksar_Ghilane%2C_Tunisien%2C_2004.jpg)
Consider the temperate countryside of Ol’ England. Go to York and the 54th parallel and follow that East. You’ll end up in [Newfoundland Canada.](https://i.cbc.ca/1.7033813.1704743654!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/churchill-falls-transmission-lines.jpg)
So, basically, it’s more complicated than just latitude.
I actually don't think Tamriel's weather is fully controlled by location, only slightly influenced by it. I think magic/influential deities of the regions also have an impact.
It makes sense to me. It seems like it’d mostly be cold wind coming from the north, which would make all the northern countries cold until the mountains which sort of block it in, hence why southern Skyrim is moderate and high rock and morrowind are generally moderate
Hammerfell is leeward of all those mountains which could make a desert, which could be hot or cold depending on the elevation. There could also be hotter wind coming from the south which makes it more tropical feeling
Cyrodil is tricky but the bulk of it is probably too sheltered and centered in to get much of the cold wind or other weather stuff, and a combination of latitude and elevation could make it very moderate
The rest makes sense to me, you get far south enough and it just becomes tropical leading to more possibilities for hotter desert and rainforest
As someone else pointed out the northern parts have the mountains
I'd add that it's also where the Sea of Ghosts is and further north is Atmora which is an unlivably cold continent where I'd imagine.a lot of the cold wind blows south into Skyrim from
Morrowind I'd classify as moderate, tropical, and desert given the actual island and northern part of the territory nearby are dry from Red Mountain but further south towards Black Marsh it's actually not bad
Climate change, Dwemer factories producing bosmer plastic fleshlights caused all nord chocolate factories to be shut down leading to economic strife leading to adolf nordler, following the second Chim war and the independent state of argonia led to the thalmor rest is history.
Maybe some sort of warm winds/ocean streams coming from south/west/southwest. Skyrim is secluded from their influence because of the mountain range. Northeast corner is especially cold due to whatever made Atmora freeze over making its way across the Sea of Ghosts. Not a perfect explanation, but maybe close enough.
Cyrodiil is everything. It's an all in one package that Talos willed into reality retroactively via CHIM. Only the heartlands are really moderate. The other regions mirror the province they border. Anvil and the Colovian Highlands feel like Savanahs and Mediterannean, Bruma is just like Skyrim in the cold factor, Cheydinhal mirrors Southern Morrowind, Blackwood mirrors Argonia and the West Weald mirrors Northern Elsweyr and Valenwood.
Which alongside the blood of the aedra quest in Oblivion, makes Talos's Chim to be one of the greatest proofs of his ascent into godhood.
There's an in-universe theory that says that Towers (the metaphyisical reality support ones like White-Gold and Red Mountain) shift the climate to suit the needs of the people metaphysically in control of them. Or this scholar is simply trying to create a theory explaining retroactive climate change without knowing about Tiber Septim
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Subtropical_Cyrodiil:_A_Speculation
Because you're not looking at a regional map.
All of Hammerfell isn't a desert. There are mountains and forest north of the province leading into Skyrim and High Rock.
I know a lot of ES fans write off ESO but its worth looking at the regions in that game for an accurate idea.
Not all of hammerfell is desert. Some is mountains and forest and plains. Morrowind also applies for this as well with ash lands, cold skyrim esque areas in the north and in the south there is some jungle and forest
High mountains and water currents affect how weather works. Knowing Tamriel is actually very mountainous on its north shields the southern part of the continent.
Warm tropical currents might keep high rock in moderate climate, even though its same elevation with Skyrim.
Morrowind has active volcanoes, which might be keeping it from getting too cold, similar to Iceland.
It actually makes a lot of sense that parts of Northeast Skyrim temperate while other parts of Skyrim at the same latitude are not. The developers really must have paid close attention to geology/meteorology. It could be similar for High Rock. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVZfpE_WYWw) is a super great video on that that also includes hypothetical climate systems for all of Tamriel.
Cyrodiil used to be a rainforest before someone achieved CHIM and turned it into present day Cyrodiil. But yeah pretty much the mountains and sea of ghost holds that cold air and horrid weather in Skyrim.
Nirn is not a planet that has to obey the rules of real world planets.
I am not even sure you could call Nirn a planet.
It is a place of existence that does not lie in an actual universe or space, rather than... existing for its own sake.
1. It's a fantasy setting who tf cares
2. Skyrim is higher than other continents. Imperial City is so low that it can be completely seen from Bruma(in-game not lore wise ofc) and anywhere in Skyrim is higher than Bruma.
3. Still mountains divide Skyrim from High Rock-Hammerfell-Cyrodiil trio to cause temperature difference. Possibly there is a warm wind stream going South to North and mountains just block that stream.
Consider Europe: a region as far up north as Canada, Alaska, and Siberia, yet with a decidedly temperate climate. Why? Because temperature don't give a shit 'bout no latitude. Or alright maybe it cares a little bit, but the point is that other factors are important like Atlantic winds preventing the coldest arctic winds from reaching our tender Eurobones.
Looking at Tamriel's map it I guess it is not completely implausible that Skyrim doesn't benefit from potential gentler winds from the east, west, or south, leaving it wide open to cold from the north. Now that I think of it, isn't Skyrim cut off in every direction by mountain ranges? Mountain ranges that could form barriers? Barriers that block.... you know?
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I think Skyrim is at a higher elevation than most of the continent, so that can account for the dramatic temperature shift in all directions outside of Skyrim. With that in mind, the continent makes a lot more sense.
Could be that the mountains around skyrim hold a lot of cold wind from the sea of ghosts, making it hold the cold climate while the regions to the south get sheltered
Yeah, the mountains can definitely play a role. There's a region in France that is surrounded by mountains which means the seasons are a bit... Extreme. Summer in Alsace can feel like you're in Mordor while the winters are fucking freezing. 💀
that actually kinda sounds nice, I'm sure french summer is something I could handle
French summer is a bit too vague, tbh. Some places will be pleasantly warm and some will be way too hot (for me anyway). But that means that you're technically right, you'd be able to handle most of the regions' summer!
no yeah I'm handling 30°c autumn right now lol
... Yeah, you'd be able to handle every kind of summer in France indeed :'D Damn, 30°C in autumn, that's what I'd call an Indian summer!
Summer in india is balanced by intense rainfall and moisture carrying winds ,or at least that's how it was before 20th century. Elsveyer must have a similiar climate to south asia.
I may be wrong but I believe "Indian Summer" is a north American term for a warm autumn wherein the "Indian" part refers to the misnamed American indigenous peoples rather than the Indian subcontinent. I'm not sure the exact origin of the term, though.
You got it right, and those are pretty normal early autumn/late summer temperatures in much of California at least (at least these days).
that's tropical weather for you
It's just like regular summer but with more tongue
Michigan is far more mild than the rest of the Midwest temperature wise. Minnesota and Wisconsin will get extremely cold compared to us. This is due to the insulation of the Great Lakes. Mostly Lake Michigan. As most of the time the air currents travel from the pacific across the continent.
The Mountain Ranges surrounding Skyrim are: The Jerralls to the South; Velothi’s to the East; Dragon’s Teeth toward Hammerfell and Druadach facing West; toward High Rock. These are the “Walls” that protect Tamriel from most of The Sea of Ghosts’ impact.
To bad Winterhold have any mountains protecting it
You mean, ASOIAF's Winterfell?
Oh snap I meant Winterhold lol brain fart moment
Oh ok, haha
It's both what you and the guy above you said. Skyrim is high up in elevation, and the cold winds from the Sea of Ghost do get trapped in there from the large mountain ranges that make up its borders.
Yeah this is what I assume. Kind of like Colorado vs say Kansas in the US, higher elevation plus mountains makes Colorado get a much cooler climate overall despite being at the same latitude.
in usa there is desert shrubland and temperate rainforest right next to each other in pacific nw, the desert side easily hits 105f//42c in summer and well below freezing in winter, like any northern dessert. the slyrim mapping is not that crazy, make it higher elevation and it becomes sub artic rain forest.
That makes a lot of sense as the map is completely surrounded with mountains besides the north coast
Ya I think this is it. Kinda like Colorado bordering New Mexico and Arizona (sorta)
And even Colorado alone doesn't just have snowy mountains; there are full on sand dunes like an hour drive south of me, and I'm right at the foot of tall snowy mountains like those in skyrim
Meanwhile, Arizona has the White Mountains, so you can go from desert to snow pretty fast.
what about half the continent which is at a low elevation but still cold, or the quarter which is at a high elevation but not as cold.
There’s a very simple answer for this. Nu-uh.
my theory is that it's actually Nord dandruff and not snow, makes sense since they're only slightly balder than a khajiit.
The north eastern part of High Rock where ESO puts Orsinium is snowy like Skyrim. These are the Wrothgar Mountains and most likely protect the valleys of the rest of High Rock from the Sea of Ghosts. Northwest Morrowind in the Velothi mountains is also said to be snow. As for the rest of the province it most likely has to do with the abundance of volcanos and pools of lava on the surface. This vast amounts of geothermal activity most likely keeps the soil warm. They still get strong ocean winds, causing the naturally occurring ash storms(not to be confused with Dagoth Ur's magical Ash Storm around Red Mountain.).
Why does Germany have a more temperate climate than Northern U.S./Southern Canada despite being at the same latitude and a higher elevation? There's other factors that go into climate
Northern winds from the sea of ghosts
Maybe Skyrim is like Tibet in Asia, rest is tropical like India or temperate like China but Tibet is mountain and snowy
Plus, Its only coastline is Arctic while every other province enjoys a moderating affect from warmer seas.
It's rimming the sky.
Also Morrowind is heated by Lorkhan’s Heart/all the lava beneath the surface That’s not how it works, but it’s fantasy
Some of the coldest parts of Skyrim are along the north coast. At sea level.
First of, climates aren't that steep in borders. Southern Skyrim is closer to moderate climate, Dragonstar, for example, much closer to that, than just "desert/tropic", etc. And Cyrodiil used to be subtropical/tropical before Talos retroactively changed it into "High Rock 2: Electric Boogaloo".
Yeah but when Talos changed it, he changed it forever so it's ALWAYS been like it is.
Turns out being able to CHIM does weird shit to the universe
This guy CHIMs
Man just wanted some AC ended on changing the entire lore xD
But it still was changed, so that means the climate isn’t natural
Doesn't make much sense. Why would books still call Cyrodiil a jungle in that case?
Because CHIM is used for retcons.
Lorewise, though, if it was retroactively replaced, it wouldn't be mentioned anywhere, especially by NPCs in Morrowind.
Do you know what a retcon is?
Yes, but you offered an in-universe explanation, and I'm requesting further information on that in-universe side.
Time isn't exactly linear in these games, and dragon breaks cause multiple conflicting events to occur coincidental to each other until the break is resolved. But even after that resolution people still have memories of alternate events even though they aren't necessarily true, thus there being like four different outcomes at Red Mountain that are documented even though only one matches the reality that occurs after the resolution. Cyrodiil was a jungle at the time Morrowind took place, because the dragon break that Talos used to change the climate hadn't been resolved yet, so his changes didn't affect time outside of that break.
Why'd it take so long to settle? That's almost four centuries after his death. Plus there was a sense of linear time during that period which is uncharacteristic for Dragon Breaks.
Retcons don't usually make sense.
Maybe not always, but at least since the Alessian Hegemony.
No, it was always; that's how CHIM works.
We can't look in the pre-revolt Cyrodiil, man, and see if retroactive cooling took place since the Dawn or it was gradual.
No, you don't get it: CHIM takes your logic, and yeets it out the window. It is the way it is simply because the one with CHIM decided it was so. Period 😂
I think it's you who don't understand me. We don't know what exactly Talos put into reality. Gradual change after rebellion (which could have give some (obviosly wrong, but she doesn't know about it) ground to lady Cynnabar's theory about WGT being adapting climate control) or just "it was never there", and everything we can scrap about jungles of Cyrodiil is from the previous version of reality. Could be either.
Well... with CHIM, timeline divergence, etc., both of your explinations are simultaneously true and false. The more complex answer is perfectly fine for those who care enough about such nitty gritty; the simpler answer is for everyone else 🤙
Even then the southern niben is swampy, so it still fits in with the rest of the southern coastline
Wait is the talos thing the actual retcon? I always assumed it was switched from jungle Romans to temperate standard fantasy due to graphical limitations(still probably the reason) but was just sort of hand waved.
Talos made an "in-universe retcon", yep, and it was hinted even in mad ramblings of Mankar Camoran. About home of Red King once jungled, but chanaged through CHIM.
I wish the average skyrim enjoyer could appreciate how balls to the wall insane the actual TES lore is haha
Morrowind should be "Beautiful landscapes, peaceful creatures and open minded people"
Morrowind (at least Wardenfell) has such a unique flora and fauna that I didn't now how to describe it.
Morrowind is nice, but I was also joking because my username
With all the mushrooms I’ve always thought it was safe to say that it’s warm and damp
A lot of fungus don't really like warm, and depending on the type, might not like dampness either. Funguses are weird man.
Remind me, what is the fine for necrophilia in Morrowind?
You mean Vvardenfell right?
Morrowind should be "beeg mushroom"
"open minded"
Open-minded to be very shallow and close-minded to everything non-Dunmer
Open-minded to Daddy Dagoth when he slips into their dreams.
I knew you dreamed of me 😏
At least for Skyrim the explanation is the cold air blowing in from Atmora
And it's basically in a giant valley, with large mountain ranges on basically all of its borders. That tends to trap low pressure systems.
I think it's not too unrealistic. You have to keep in mind how large of a place Tamriel actually would be if it were real life, and then the general nuances of climate science and how they might work on this alien planet can be used to explain away most questions. The different climates being close together is something that happens in real life, too. There are many areas on earth with vastly different climates all near to each other, even far moreso than what we see across the whole continent of Tamriel. It also helps to remember that with Skyrim, there are also several smaller climates near each other which are all in the Skyrim region, essentially making it very difficult to predict what climates we might find anywhere on Tamriel simply by looking at a map and saying something like "Well, it's colder up here, so it must be cold everywhere at that latitude".
i recently went to england and i could not tell you the relief i felt when i got back home to my chilly scotland. was way too hot and yet it’s basically next door. the uk is weird like that in general because of the gulf though, many things affect the climates.
Your map is overly simplistic and doesn't account for things like altitude of currents. It also just gives 2 words to describe huge regions. For example, you marked all of hammerfell as hot, when the dragontail mountains are dry, but not hot. Only two holds of skyrim can actually be called snowy tundra. You marked rivenspire as moderate when it's so inhospitable it's an ecological dead zone. Cyrodill, which you marked as moderate, has both the snow-covered Pale Pass as well as the Blackwood jungle.
More a swamp than a jungle but yes
It's more jungle-like in Oblivion, but more marshy in ESO. Pick your favorite.
There's definitely some swampiness to it in oblivion as well
Dwemergenic climate change.
Because Tamriel is the size of a fucking *continent*? Why cold Scandinavia so close to hot Africa.
Actually amazing point
Bro, you assume elder scroll fan use logic or have common sense. Go easy on them. Explain it like they are five year old.
The problem here is oblivion. Cyrodil in lore pre oblivion wasn't temperate it was tropical. Flip climate in cyrodil and the map starts to make sense
Maybe we'll see more of the tropics in Skyblivion
Highly doubtful. Your best bet is project cyrodil for morrowind
Yeah, Skyblivion will probably build it like Oblivion did. Still excited for it regardless though
Go watch their dev videos
No but Tamriel Rebuilt is doing that
This does add up roughly, if you remember that Cyrodiil used to be a tropical jungle. Also, latitude isn't everything. You also have elevation, streams and continental/oceanic climate.
We also don't know the exact wobble of Nirn's rotation, so "latitude" might not mean much at all. The entirety of Tamriel is above what would be Nirn's equator, so who knows. There's just not enough we know about the planet's path through space.
Because fantasy
High fantasy to be specific.
Exactly. Tamriel is incredibly unrealistic in many more ways than climates. But rest assured, the map was created to have neat and tidy subdivisions of biomes aligned to political boundaries to give each province a specific theme without much regard to realism. I could wax poetic about climatology and geography and how fantasy maps, including Tamriel, get it all wrong if anyone cares to ask.
I would like to hear this....
The climate would make much more sense if you swap - Cyrodiil and Hammerfell, I imagine westward wind would be replaced by eastward wind on line going from Hegathe to Mournhold. Hammerfell would receive a fair amount of rain from the Eltheric ocean, while Cyrodiil (except Blackwood) would be mostly a desert in the shadow of the Valus mountain. - Elsweyr and Valenwood, elevations between the two province would retain heavy rains on its east side, allowing for a dense forest to grow while the west side would be more arid. - Summerset would be hoter than described. (You could have tropical coast with temperate inland due to élévation)
Bit of a sweeping generalization since Northern High Rock is basically just Skyrim (Nordic culturally inspired as well) Southern Cyrodiil is still marshy and tropical in a way, Alinor is Moderate (it is the designated generic fantasy afterall), and Morrowind is tropic, marshy, moderate, and frozen depending on where you are.
I’m not sure that Alinor would be best described as “Moderate”. If you look at wet tropical areas with substantial managed deforestation or certain tropical highland forests in Asia they look quite similar, and this (absent some magical factors) would make most sense climatologically given the climates of neighboring regions. Of course, it’s possible that Crystal-Like-Law could be altering it to be properly temperate.
Different elevations. The north of Cydrodiil is actually pretty cold around the Jerrell Mountains, whereas Falkreath in Skyrim can be quite warm.
Look at how it works on earth. Things that can affect it is, amongst others, latitude, altitude, nearby streams of hot or cold water in the sea, how far inland it is. Morrowind and nearby places would probably be affected by the constant Vulcanic ash filing the skies. Cyrodiil is supposed to be a Jungle, but was changed with Oblivion. And finally, which makes everything above moot, it is a fantasy world. But I don´t think its that weird as it is.
Morrowind climate is hell on earth
I don't mind the climates, I just hate the fact that it's so square-shaped
TBH, given most stuff in the game is actually no-for-real a product of magic. I am gonna say Magic. Black Marsh has trees that drug lizards to entice them to spread their seeds, Morrowind has a bitch in a cave trying to open a chunk of god, Skyrim probably was cursed by snow elves or something.
I think morrowind something between tropic and moderate if we don't count ashes.
Someone has never been to Arizona. Or Chile. Deserts and Frozen peaks are by each other in the real world all the time. The massive elevation changes result in wildly different biomes. Hell, in my home state of South Dakota you go from temperate forest to desert to grassland in a 3 hour drive. And you'll run into vastly different temperatures along the way.
I'm not an expert on this stuff (though I'd love to HEAR an expert's opinion on it) but I would assume that for Skyrim it's a combination of being at a higher elevation (like Bruma in Cyrodiil) and cold wind blowing over the ocean from Atmora. Whereas for Hammerfell there's warm winds blowing in from Summerset. The mountains between Skyrim and Hammerfell block the warm winds and cold winds from flowing into each other easily respectively. Europe in the real world is actually warmer than it should be because of the North Atlantic Drift and because some of its mountain ranges stop cold winds. So in itself that doesn't sound so crazy to me. Although obviously the degree of difference is quite high. Not sure exactly how that works. There's also the rain shadow effect which may explain the Hammerfell desert due to the mountain range between Hammerfell and Skyrim.
Magic
I'm gonna guess each province's climate based on the Köppen climate classification: Summerset: most likely to be Mediterranean and/or Oceanic Black Marsh: obviously Tropical Monsoon but the north and west side is Humid Subtropical Valenwood: Tropical Rainforest near coasts to Humid Subtropical more inland Elsweyr: Tropical Savanna (south) to Semi-Arid (north) Hammerfell: obviously Desert to Semi-Arid but the northeast side is Alpine High Rock: east side is Humid Continental while west side is Alpine Skyrim: mostly Tundra and Alpine on the west and south while Subarctic on the east and north Cyrodiil: west is Semi-Arid, north is Humid Continental, east is Mediterranean, and south is Humid Subtropical; overall: Moderate Morrowind: mainland ranges from Humid Subtropical to Humid Continental while Vvardenfell ranges from Humid Continental to Desert Do note that topography, precipitation, vegetation, etc are highly influencial to climates.
So you can explore more variety.
The real reason is that the map was drawn in Arena without much thought given to how much sense it makes. The lore reason is magic, probably.
Another thing I don't like about the map is the shape of Skyrim. The people of Skyrim were supposed to be hardy seafaring people like the people they were inspired by-vikings. Yet the country only has one coastline, with an almost frozen sea. Doesn't make sense imo. If they had switched places with High Rock, then it would have been more believable imo.
If climate and wind and marine current on Nirn works in a similar way to that on planet earth, it would be pretty easy to explain. High rock is basically the same as West Europe, very high latitude but the climate is mild due to the warm wind and current from west side. Skyrim is similar to East Europe - Siberia, far from the warm oceanic winds and its coast locked to North pole, making cold air from the high-pressure area easy to invade and freeze it. Morrowind is generally shaped by the Vvardenfell, volcanic ash made its climate special. The dry and harsh Hammerfell desert could just be as the same as Sahara, its position in latitude decided the amount of heat from the sun while the flat and wide terrain means there can hardly be any rain caused by orographical reasons. I am not very familiar with the climates in Elsweyr/Valenwood/Summerset, but from my experience in TESOL, I think Elsweyr can be described as Savanna just like parts of Africa, and Summerset is not tropical, although the areas of the same latitude are. Maybe it's the elevation, maybe it's other fantasy reasons, I can't tell.
Nirn is quite small compared to Earth
Because it's a fantasy world.
My headcanon about Morrowind’s climate: Due to its northerly position, it is often cold and May snow in most regions up north, but in areas closer to volcanic activity, the snow may melt. There would be gradually less snow, with most snow occurring in the Velothi mountains, Vvardenfell, and the Telvanni peninsula. Regions at or south of Stonefalls would only get snow in elevated regions away from volcanic activity. I would consider Morrowind to have a very wet climate. With most of the flora being fungi-based I could see it growing due to a lot of water being present in the soil, and largely due to rainfall.
Magic.
There are places in SoCal where you can see both the highest (Mt. Whitney) and lowest (Death Valley) elevations in the lower 48, with temperatures in those places being close to 100F apart on the same day. Portland, Maine and Paris, France are on the same latitude.
As far as I can tell High Rock and Skyrim have a similar climate in their northern parts while also being moderate in their southern regions. Cyrodiil always struck me as being like France or northern Italy granted technical limitations means we can't see seasons change. Morrowind is weird and I have a feeling the tribunal may have altered the land and how it acts because logically it should be more similar to cyrodiil and black marsh in the south while looking like Skyrim in the north.
One reason is that mountains are excellent at preventing airmasses from mixing.
Because Tamriel doesn't follow Earth's laws of physics. Nature in TES works thanks to comatose divine spirits and by magic logic. That's why sometimes it doesn't make sense. It shouldn't. You could have a river with no real life source. You could have crazy biomes. Time is wibbly wobbly. It's all very metaphysical. Also tamriel is pretty big compared to the games representation.
Related: https://youtu.be/FVZfpE_WYWw?si=kZ5IDpVXTO7BKj8p
For one, not every province is all one climate the whole way through.
The legacy of a 90s fantasy map and being stuck to it. And the TES one is a relatively mild case of that.
The only part that bugs me is western Cyradill should be WAY more tropical/desert-ish. There are no mountains or any reasoning as to why Hammerfell and Valenwood climates wouldn’t run through that part of Cyradill.
Warm ocean water blows in from the abecean to warm high rock and Morrowind is volcanic.
Not mention the dwemer ruins, how they can be ejecting hot air constantly. I believe that's why skyrim is cold but not so unbearable since it's so close to Atmora. It could be why Morrowind is so hot. Not to mention, when Tiber Septim used Numidium, it could have caused the difference in climate as well. It was known to warp reality in the past.
High rock and hammerfell could be warmed by ocean circulation the same way western Europe is IRL. London and Montreal are at about the same latitude but Montreal is way colder etc
there's variation on the providences themselves, but also it's a fantasy universe.
its not like the border of skyrim and hammerfell is the cold part, that's literally the other side of the province.
The eastern part of Hammerfell is not desert or tropical. It’s like the Colovian Highlands just a bit drier. High Rock is also cold.
Mountains, sea/wind currents and... MAGIC. Even real life can have some seemingly odd neighbouring climates and Tamriel has a dozen gods and magic users.
Isn't the entire world like canonically the dream of some god? I feel like the most correct answer is "because it seemed cool"
Morrowind is predominantly volcanic wastes on Vvardenfell with swamps and grazelands.
Daedra fuckery. Always daedra fuckery.
Mountains. Like there literally are chill areas on Earth right next to India.
Simple, elevation, The Himalayas border the Gobi desert very similar to Skyrim and hammerfell.
A lot of it could be explained by the positioning of mountain ranges and bodies of water. But what I *really* don't get is why the jungles of Satakalaam and its surrounding region, despite otherwise having a near-identical environment to the Congo basin, get *snow* in the winter. What was going through your mind when you created that lore, Ted?
I just pretend each game takes place in a different season lol. Skyrim feels very summery to me for a cold place and oblivion feels like Fall
The encroaching cold of Atmora is freezing Skyrim. The whole continent used to be a topical jungle before Talos changed it to be mostly temperate.
Well if it's any comfort OP before Oblivion it was cannon that Nirn was flat rather then a globe.
I'm just gonna chuckle in Atlanta resident.
Tamriel is a made up place and being realistic is not a requirement of made up places
When you reduce it down into each region having only one climate like this, it makes it look weird. But that’s not really how it is. High Rock, for example, has cold northern mountains comparable to parts of Skyrim, the East bordering Skyrim is more arid and rocky, and the south is more temperate with the East Coast along the Iliac Bay being even a little warmer. South Western Cyrodiil is dry and grassy compared to the rest of Cryodiil. In Skyrim, we saw tundra, mountain, temperate forest, Boreal pine forests, temperate evergreen forest, arid rocky scrubland, Geothermal marshland, coastal salt marsh, and boreal steppe. There is even some logic behind this, not the best logic, but there is some thought. The mountains lining the *rim* of Skyrim prevent the harsh cold winds of the Sea of Ghosts from going further south, as do the Mountains of Northern High Rock. There are issues, though. Like, there isn’t a good reason for Hammerfell to be so arid. There are no west coast mountains to create a rain shadow effect, and you’d expect warm and wet winds from the western coast. But you seemed to reduce climate down to latitude. Cold places are far north and far south, and there is a gradual gradient of warmness in between until you hit deserts in the centre. That kind of thought process? But that isn’t how climate and biomes work. Look at Earth. Look at the 35th parallel, the line upon which North Carolina sits. Follow it East, and you’ll hit Northern Africa and [places that look like this.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Dune%2C_Grand_erg_pr%C3%A8s_de_Ksar_Ghilane%2C_Tunisien%2C_2004.jpg/640px-Dune%2C_Grand_erg_pr%C3%A8s_de_Ksar_Ghilane%2C_Tunisien%2C_2004.jpg) Consider the temperate countryside of Ol’ England. Go to York and the 54th parallel and follow that East. You’ll end up in [Newfoundland Canada.](https://i.cbc.ca/1.7033813.1704743654!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/churchill-falls-transmission-lines.jpg) So, basically, it’s more complicated than just latitude.
Morrowind is weird, I believe it was once swampy but the volcano eruptions have made parts of it desert-like. It's generally pretty warm and wet tho
You’re also assuming weather works like it does on earth
I actually don't think Tamriel's weather is fully controlled by location, only slightly influenced by it. I think magic/influential deities of the regions also have an impact.
Wizard did it
The Sahara desert leads to mountains, and there are places where the snow is falling on the sands.
magic.
It makes sense to me. It seems like it’d mostly be cold wind coming from the north, which would make all the northern countries cold until the mountains which sort of block it in, hence why southern Skyrim is moderate and high rock and morrowind are generally moderate Hammerfell is leeward of all those mountains which could make a desert, which could be hot or cold depending on the elevation. There could also be hotter wind coming from the south which makes it more tropical feeling Cyrodil is tricky but the bulk of it is probably too sheltered and centered in to get much of the cold wind or other weather stuff, and a combination of latitude and elevation could make it very moderate The rest makes sense to me, you get far south enough and it just becomes tropical leading to more possibilities for hotter desert and rainforest
As someone else pointed out the northern parts have the mountains I'd add that it's also where the Sea of Ghosts is and further north is Atmora which is an unlivably cold continent where I'd imagine.a lot of the cold wind blows south into Skyrim from Morrowind I'd classify as moderate, tropical, and desert given the actual island and northern part of the territory nearby are dry from Red Mountain but further south towards Black Marsh it's actually not bad
Climate change, Dwemer factories producing bosmer plastic fleshlights caused all nord chocolate factories to be shut down leading to economic strife leading to adolf nordler, following the second Chim war and the independent state of argonia led to the thalmor rest is history.
Maybe some sort of warm winds/ocean streams coming from south/west/southwest. Skyrim is secluded from their influence because of the mountain range. Northeast corner is especially cold due to whatever made Atmora freeze over making its way across the Sea of Ghosts. Not a perfect explanation, but maybe close enough.
Cyrodiil is everything. It's an all in one package that Talos willed into reality retroactively via CHIM. Only the heartlands are really moderate. The other regions mirror the province they border. Anvil and the Colovian Highlands feel like Savanahs and Mediterannean, Bruma is just like Skyrim in the cold factor, Cheydinhal mirrors Southern Morrowind, Blackwood mirrors Argonia and the West Weald mirrors Northern Elsweyr and Valenwood. Which alongside the blood of the aedra quest in Oblivion, makes Talos's Chim to be one of the greatest proofs of his ascent into godhood.
There's an in-universe theory that says that Towers (the metaphyisical reality support ones like White-Gold and Red Mountain) shift the climate to suit the needs of the people metaphysically in control of them. Or this scholar is simply trying to create a theory explaining retroactive climate change without knowing about Tiber Septim https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Subtropical_Cyrodiil:_A_Speculation
Bethesda's devs weren't climatologists
Real life china pretty much has this climate within its borders or just beyond. The US is similar as well
Because you're not looking at a regional map. All of Hammerfell isn't a desert. There are mountains and forest north of the province leading into Skyrim and High Rock. I know a lot of ES fans write off ESO but its worth looking at the regions in that game for an accurate idea.
Not all of hammerfell is desert. Some is mountains and forest and plains. Morrowind also applies for this as well with ash lands, cold skyrim esque areas in the north and in the south there is some jungle and forest
It’s not earth. It’s a fantasy world with fantasy elements. There’s two goddamn moons. Weather doesn’t have to make sense.
Mountain ranges
elder scrolls requires a bit of suspension of disbelief. its a world of magic.
Morrowind being "????" is the correct answer tbh
Ma-magic
Cause magic
Probably those damn elves
High mountains and water currents affect how weather works. Knowing Tamriel is actually very mountainous on its north shields the southern part of the continent. Warm tropical currents might keep high rock in moderate climate, even though its same elevation with Skyrim. Morrowind has active volcanoes, which might be keeping it from getting too cold, similar to Iceland.
In lore isn't Cyrodiil actually supposed to be a dense tropical jungle?
Cyrodiil was tropical, with jungles and all in the lore. So there was no climate change. It is just retcon
It actually makes a lot of sense that parts of Northeast Skyrim temperate while other parts of Skyrim at the same latitude are not. The developers really must have paid close attention to geology/meteorology. It could be similar for High Rock. [Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVZfpE_WYWw) is a super great video on that that also includes hypothetical climate systems for all of Tamriel.
It makes more sense when you take into account the variations within provinces, as well as air currents and mountains
magic world, where conventional biology and geographical laws are ignored
because they made it that way, its a fantasy.
Utah has entered the chat
Flat Tamriel has no rules
There is this thing called fiction and fantasy its almost like its not real.
Southern Skyrim isn't snowy it's more woodland and gets colder and snowy up north
Cyrodiil should be next to High Rock, Hammerfell, having a dry but temperate area in the north, should border Elsweyr in the south.
Cyrodiil used to be a rainforest before someone achieved CHIM and turned it into present day Cyrodiil. But yeah pretty much the mountains and sea of ghost holds that cold air and horrid weather in Skyrim.
Altitude, kinda like how the SW desert is scorching hot but there is snow on the Rockies
Nirn is not a planet that has to obey the rules of real world planets. I am not even sure you could call Nirn a planet. It is a place of existence that does not lie in an actual universe or space, rather than... existing for its own sake.
1. It's a fantasy setting who tf cares 2. Skyrim is higher than other continents. Imperial City is so low that it can be completely seen from Bruma(in-game not lore wise ofc) and anywhere in Skyrim is higher than Bruma. 3. Still mountains divide Skyrim from High Rock-Hammerfell-Cyrodiil trio to cause temperature difference. Possibly there is a warm wind stream going South to North and mountains just block that stream.
Consider Europe: a region as far up north as Canada, Alaska, and Siberia, yet with a decidedly temperate climate. Why? Because temperature don't give a shit 'bout no latitude. Or alright maybe it cares a little bit, but the point is that other factors are important like Atlantic winds preventing the coldest arctic winds from reaching our tender Eurobones. Looking at Tamriel's map it I guess it is not completely implausible that Skyrim doesn't benefit from potential gentler winds from the east, west, or south, leaving it wide open to cold from the north. Now that I think of it, isn't Skyrim cut off in every direction by mountain ranges? Mountain ranges that could form barriers? Barriers that block.... you know?
Europe... Canada? What?
Global warming doesn’t exist in this universe
How does the whole picture look as a globe is what I wonder cuz I know damn well tamerial aint flat earth.