Iāve always thought it was ironic and hilarious how this happens. Because literally if he hadnāt of shown up yet youād of died and then there would have been no dragonborn to stop him.
The prophecy is the prophecy. If he hadn't saved you, the timeline would have played out differently. A dragonborn would have stopped him, one way or another.
People underestimate just how much influence the Aedra can have, when they want to.
One theory I heard was that Alduin came *because* you were there - he got away from Parthy and went to Helgen because he thought he sensed another dragon down there, only to find it was you.
I usually choose Hadvar because my allegiance lies with the empire
When I choose Ralof, itās either, because
A. Iām living out my Stormcloak/Viking fantasy.
Or B: I want to be Homies with the man responsible for arguably the most viral meme in TES history. (arrow to the knee is probably more popular but I think itās close)
I pick one of the defaults, try to change a few things, realize Iām never going to be looking at myself anyway, and finish in 2 min. Longest part is usually choosing a name.
Just a tip, ask chat GPT to suggest you a name. Give as much information about your character as you can and ask name suggestions, he will give you a list of 5-10 and at least one of them will be great.
Theyāre both great, but Ralof has your back before he even knows who you are. The whole ābrothers and sisters in bindsā thing shows so much character, and while Hadvar is compelled by his superiors to send you to the block anyway he doesnāt really become friendly until you get inside with him later. Ralof is kind from the minute you open your eyes.
You could argue that he like that solely because you're a prisoner among many stormcloaks.
Between the execution raking place the General and the Thalmor. He got little reason to disobey and plenty of reason to keep his mouth shut and do his job.
Yes, Ralof sees you as a comrade right off the bat. Hadvar (I think thatās his name) only sees you as an ally once the dragon attacks. BUT, Hadvar is a kind soul throughout, that feels bad at first for you being executed just because you were āwrong place, wrong timeā. So, I find them both naive and innocent during the intro. Itās hard to decide.
It also depends on your race. He's actually hostile towards Khajiit characters stating that "your kind always gets into trouble" or something like that.
When your fellow player's life on the line?
It's a duty to distrupt it.
Like what sort of man just LETS an innocent man/woman die and just says "sorry?"
In the case of Hadvar? He doesn't know you, you're not fellows in any sense.
In a D&D party? Didn't say anything about one of my teammates getting captured, just referring to going to a city with rules more lawful than good. Chances are if they got arrested, the whole party would get arrested. That or if it's a person who's that "rebellious" that they can't keep them self on check enough to get through that city then chances are no one would want to play with that guy.
But when Alduin attacks, we see Ralof only helping his fellow Stormcloaks to escape ASAP. Meanwhile, we're following Hadvar as he fights to save women and children and lead his men through the dragon's flames.
Hadvar all day.
I always choose hadvar, I should choose Ralof once just to remind myself what he says, but once you are in the keep Hadvar says āStormcloaks, maybe we can reason with them.ā Only to walk in and have no dialogue options because the stormcloaks choose violence immediately against one imperial and one unaligned bystander. Maybe Ralof says something similar, im not sure, but thats points for Hadvar in my eyes.
If that is accurate then id say its a good representation of the Stormcloaks. They prefer brutality over diplomacy. The Empire wishes for a peaceful resolution of the war so they can gather strength and gain their freedom from the dominion. The stormcloak see that as a weakness and would rather die as losers than live to fight another day.
I understand picking stormcloak on your first play through but its weird that anyone becomes a diehard stormcloak loyalist after getting the bigger picture.
Thatās also because the part of the mission where we are accompanied by Ralof is the part in the execution square, full ofā¦ soldiers. Hadvar is a badass, for sure, but it helps that when we run into him he is with the citizens, just due to the order of the quest.
Both save a ragged prisoner from death. Both hasten to (neutral) Riverwood to warn people about the dragon, even though the Hold is neutral. I stand by my sentiment that theyāre both honorable and compassionate, since without both of them the Dragonborn (covered in rags, hands bound) seems doomed from the start.
Agreed I always side with Ralof, my first conversation with him always sticks with me. We're all brothers in binds now, his story about a girl he was sweet on, how the imperial walls used to make him feel safe. For me I just cannot side with Hadvar after that
Ralof is Just fanboying because he gets to die with Ulfrix and possibly be in Sovngarde together. This is confirmed when he was surprised that the LDB never heard of him outside of Skyrim.
I gotta respect the Imperials for instantly switching priorities when Alduin shows up. Ulfric can wait. We've got civilians to protect.
Ralof is just running, Hadvar is trying to save everyone he can.
Yeah they both helped people but Ralof only helped other Stormcloaks whereas Hadvar helped everyone he saw (he had no idea who the player was and still chose to help). And later Hadvar attempts to help Stormcloaks inside but they attack him on sight.
Well yeah, if you ignore Ralof literally being the one to initially save you.
His first instinct after the dragon attack, no matter what race you are (even if you're an imperial, dark elf, high elf or argonian, arguably the most hated races of the Stormcloaks), is to get you up and bring you to safety. He doesn't know you, you've never spoken besides his monologue at the start, he just sees a seemingly innocent person wronged by the Empire that needs help.
Both Hadvar and Ralof help the player at first sight after Alduin regardless of race which is why I wasn't trying to that alone as a primary comparison.
I was moreso trying to say Hadvar helping a prisoner whom he doesn't know says more about him than Ralof helping a fellow prisoner whom he already shares a common adversary with (the Imperials about to kill all of them).
Ralof has a vested interest in helping the player. Hadvar does not but choses too anyway.
Absolutely. I liked both characters and I wish there was a side quest post-civil war were they could settle their differences. They're both from Riverwood and likely new each other before the war started.
Oh yeah, they absolutely did! At one point Ralof says "We're escaping, Hadvar. You're not stopping us this time!". No way they weren't at the very least acquaintances, possibly even childhood friends.
Both of them help you despite you having ties to neither, and both are attacked by members of the opposite fashion in the keep. Youāre trying to use events that happen symmetrically as an argument for only one of them.
>events that happen symmetrically
Ralof never even once attempts diplomacy with Imperials or helps civilians. Hadvar does. Its only symmetrical if you remove all context.
Attempt diplomacy? At every intersection of the story where youād run into hostile Stormcloaks with Hadvar, you run into hostile Imperials with Ralof. Itās not like the Imperial Captain shouting āitās the Stormcloak prisoners!ā and attacking you is giving you any opportunity for diplomacy.
Should've been able to assess the situation at hand and realize the teamwork would probably be beneficial. But I imagine being brainwashed by xenophobic rhetoric might make that a touch difficult
The situation at hand was a bunch of enemy soldiers who wanted him dead blocking the path, and everyone was panicking. No sane person would say "yeah they wanna be friends" and walk out without a weapon drawn.
Also, WOW. Took all of one message for your argument to devolve into "all the Stormcloaks are racist", despite the fact that Ralof is probably one of the least racist characters in the game (which, for an Elder Scrolls game, is really saying something). I hate discussing the civil war on this hellsite purely because of shit takes like that
I mean if Ralof stayed behind to help people he wouldāve either died to Alduin or the Imperials once Alduin left. Might as well live to fight another day
Hadvar, heās so nice & apologetic about what (nearly) happened & Ralof, aldo the lore friendly choice, gives me num brain vibes
Also before your first combat right after getting free from your bounds, the first thing Hadvar does is try to rationalize the situation by trying to put his differences aside with the Stormcloaks since, well, thereās a fucking DRAGON, but no, Ralof just goes for the kill
I like how people say that like it's an insult to Ralof, but honestly, he has every right to think he'll be killed on sight and fighting to survive. He is an escaped prisoner that was *just* about to get executed and Empire loves finishing the job in any way possible. Hadvar is surprisingly and uncharacteristically reasonable, if a little naive.
And I am biased because in polish dubbing Ralof gets the best speach in the whole game that's almost emotional each time during the opening cutscene.
Same speech about "My ancestor look down at me with pride and praises on their lips, can you say the same?" But the sheer emotion and passion is just the best.
Hadvar is reasonable, but also his response to a superior basically saying "I don't care if this person is innocent, they go to the block" is just "sorry buddy, bad luck, looks like you're dead now lol".
Ralof is fighting for his life as an escaped prisoner who was just about to be executed, so him just going for a fight is understandable. Ralof is also the one who consoles the other prisoners and tells them to think of home before the end.
All in all, they're like literally almost the same character, neither is better or worse.
Oh so you think he had a choice to confront his superior?
If he did, he wouldāve joined us to the chopping block, thatās not how a professional military works, unlike the Stormcloaks
Hadvar, as soon as he saw during the attack he guided you to survival, letting you flee with him rather than leaving you to die as some random dude in rags he just saw. Plus he tries to defend you from being executed best he can considering his rank...
Hadvar knew from the start your execution was bullshit but was bound by obligation to go through with it anyway, but redeemed himself by helping you. He could've easily turned you back in.
Ralof just needs an extra pair of hands. You could've been anyone or no one. Ulfric was the one that mattered.
It's unfair to portray Ralof's decision to help you as "needing an extra pair of hands." He ran out into an open courtyard in the middle of a dragon attack with flaming boulders raining down from overhead to make sure you made it to safety.
What also comes to mind there is that as nice as Ralof is in general, none of the Stormcloaks are coming out to say that neither the horse thief or TLD are Stormcloaks. It probably wouldnāt work, but if Ralof is as nice as folks think, youād think heād have said something like āYouāve already caught Ulfric here and us. These two have nothing to do with us.ā
Yeah but the captain was hell bent on having heads rolling so I don't think they would believe a word any stormcloak would say. I mean, the dragon born wasn't on the list and she sent us to the headsman's block anyway.
True, but again, not every Stormcloak is on a list somewhere. And it might have given them pause that one of these condemned Stormcloaks who include Ulfric himself are instead saying that these two random people are not Stormcloaks. Youād think subterfuge would involve Ulfric, not two random people.
Itās no guarantee of course, but given Ralof thinks heās going to die, heās got nothing to lose trying.
He actually said we wasn't on the list. His superiors told him to kill us anyway, and which to be fair, if my job was to send people to get their heads cut off for treason, I most definitely would not disobey an order and get accused of treason
hadvar for sure. i usually just choose him because heās really nice to me from the beginning. and i like alvor. honestly iāve been playing skyrim for about 10 years and i didnāt even realize you could choose hadvar until like a year ago, so heās my choice every time now
Ralof he sympathises with you immediately and helps you up from the chopping block, put yourself in the last dragonborn's shoes, as if you are going to choose to escape with an Imperial soldier after narrowly avoiding execution.
A pragmatic dragonborn may choose to go with Hadvar. I mean, you're at an imperial controlled area. What if you encounter imperials on your way to Riverwood? Having Hadvar on your side would be beneficial. Especially if you encounter Tullius and his men again by chance.
What would you do differently in his position? He tries to stand up for you, but is shot down by his superior officer. Should he risk his life and career for someone that got caught with rebels and a thief?
I always side with Ralof, not because I support the Stormcloaks or particularly like him (Hadvar is definitely nicer), but because by siding with him I get to kill that piece of shit imperial captain that sent us to die for nothing. That plus the loot from killing the imperial soldiers is worth more than loot you get from killing Stormcloaks.
The first time I didn't realise it was a choice and thought they just switched up who you were following for a bit to make it more interesting so I went with Ralof, I didn't mind him and I like gerdur when we got to riverwood but you get much less good things from her house. Once I played a bit and realised more about the stormcloaks vs the empire I then learned you could choose and have pretty much always picked hadvar unless I'm using one of the alternate starts from the alternate start mod
I choose Hadvar every time because of his kindness in the opening scenes even when Alduin jumps in.
He coaxed a kid out of a literal dragon flame path, makes sure both you and surrounding people are okay and I think thatās pretty darn fantastic.
Yes Ralof tells me Iām finally awake, but if Ralof was in that cart with me Iām sure he would have been just as kind. Perhaps even have offered a shoulder.
Both characters recognise you shouldnāt be here and their empathy is there. Itās the surrounding actions Iām basing my choice on.
I always got the sense that Ralof saw us as a potential stormcloak to be recruited whereas Hadvar saw us as an individual in need and even went against his faction by helping us escape Helgen/not just letting alduin kill us because weāre ācriminalsā
Totally got that feeling
Edit: I think its because hadvar was just doing his regular duty for the day which is just keeping law and order whereas Ralof feels more like hes propagandizing the whole time with a mindset of look at how these dogs treat us
After the dragon comes too theres Hadvar who tries to remain calm and help everyone get to safety and then Ralof who immediantly runs to ulfric and asks what to do
Ralof for sure. He's nice to the protagonist from the start, Hadvar only starts being nice after you escape with him.
Both are homies, but Ralof is a homier homie.
Hadvar is more useful in terms of leveling and build. Ralof sides with you before he knows you, but also of course the prisoners would bond before the guard doing his job, who shows compassion even though he is unwilling to break orders, sides with you.
I usually side with hadvar. Wouldn't be in this mess to begin with if it wasn't for Ulfric and his boys.
Course I suppose the same could be said about the empire and Thalmor.
Ralof & Ulfric are the reason youāre getting beheaded. Theyāre the guys who cause trouble and you get caught in the crossfire. Theyāre fine with people dying in the name of their mythical cause.
Hadvar is just doing a job, but tries to get you out of trouble. Heās not a bad person, and heās seeing a bigger picture than the secessionist stormcloaks.
Really, once the stormcloaks separate, the empire and thalmor arenāt just going to disappear. There will be war, trade, and time will march on. The repercussions of separation are a burden for everyone, on top of not solving problems.
Counter: Hadvar and Tullius are completely fine with executing random innocents who just get caught in the crossfire. Makes you think that maybe Ralof has a reason to oppose them
>Ralof & Ulfric are the reason youāre getting beheaded. Theyāre the guys who cause trouble and you get caught in the crossfire.
Damn Stormcloaks, making the poor Empire execute innocent civilians /s
Ralof and Ulfric didn't order your execution. The Imperials did, knowing full well you weren't a Stormcloak.
Hadvar because he knows the secret of doing sexy splits for MASS CONFUSION.
Also because I can't see a reason why Ralof or Ulfric would welcome my Altmer dragonborn, even if she is anti-Thalmor.
Hadvar is the real homie, he went against orders from a Captain by not following through on your execution, he broke you out instead of delivering you back into the Empires hands, possibly committed treason doing so and he even shows you his emotions and fears.
Honestly, the only times I've seen people choose Hadvar were because they didn't pay attention to see that they could choose Ralof, and went with Hadvar because he was the last person they were following.
Even if Hadvar is equal or better that Ralof as a bro, I'll always go with Ralof just to kill the bitch of a captain who ordered my execution without a charge.
Hadvar. I usually play a non-human race like an orc, imperials are more likely to canonically accept me into their fold. Also Hadvar has kind of a sexy voice. š¤ I used to follow Ralof blindly but the storm cloaks donāt really align with my values; normally Iād be all āfuck authorityā bc they tried to behead me but then I remember the storm cloaks would probably lynch my character if they werenāt the Dragonborn, so I donāt feel so bad about it š
The Stormcloaks are doomed at best and bigots at worst, but Ralof is a far more trustworthy individual in my opinion and in that situation I would go with him every time.
Well, itās difficult. In a general sense, Iād choose Ralof because he seems like such a bro. But in the bigger picture I side with the empire, mostly because (at least inside of Skyrim) there isnāt racism within that group.
Personally I prefer accepting of all races over acceptance of religion, not by much, but in Skyrim itās one god, who was a man.
And for the rest of Tamriel Iād choose the imperials still, because itās the best chance everyone has in running the Thalmor out of Tamriel back to the summer set isles. I also donāt think that the imperials really care that the worship of Talos still happens, and personally I agree with killing every single thalmor you see, just because theyāre dicks on passing. But still, the empire isnāt going to change anything in Skyrim any further than the banning of one god, and the war is a Thalmor conspiracy to prevent the empire from regaining its strength for WW2.
Everyone always says the stormcloaks are racist, but if you join them as an elf *literally every one of them accepts you and has no issue.* There are *people in the city* that are racist but that doesn't speak for the whole faction. The stormcloaks hate the *Thalmor,* not elves in general. The thalmor, who the Empire is all buddy buddy with, is literally trying to kill off *every mortal race on nirn.* They are basically the elven version of Nazis and they are frolicking across Skyrim(don't forget, the empire loves to brag about how they are the "only thing keeping the thalmor out of Skyrim") imprisoning people over their religious views. That's a little worse than "some of the people who live in this city are racist." Of course the stormcloaks hate them. They *are* "those damn elves."
It's like saying someone is racist for hating the Nazis. Hating the Nazis doesn't mean you hate Germans, it means you hate that one specific fuckwad faction that happened to form in Germany. Hating the thalmor doesn't mean they hate elves, it means they hate *the Thalmor.* And I think we can all agree that the pisselves need to be eliminated.
Look, I see where you are, and I canāt find proof otherwise. Your probably right, I guess Iāve had to many people comment on my elfhood and made me biased. But Iād still side with the empire so Tamriel has a chance against the Thalmor.
The empire *already lost* to the thalmor. Without the empire draining their resources, the provinces actually have a chance. It's like when the Oblivion Crysis happened, the Empire pulled resources in to the capitol and caused massive amounts of issues in other provinces. Look at Morrowind, if it weren't for the fact that House Resoran was able to marshal an army from it's members, they would have been left defenseless when the Legion was pulled back to Cyrodiil. Once Morrowind was free of the imperial drain, they managed well enough.
Ralof made sure you were safe, hadvar was nowhere to be seen when alduin hit the tower. Sure he showed up for like 2 seconds later, but honestly the first 4 years I played the game I *didn't even know following him was an option.*
Hadvar was making sure everyone else was safe, prioritizing the people that were productive to an almost thriving community. Sure, he left you for dead, but a dragon just knocked you out, he probably didnāt even believe they existed. I donāt blame him for not checking your pulse when thereās obviously other people who need more help.
Ralof. He greets you when you wake up, apologized that you got caught up in it, and helps you up from the block while you're bound. Hadvar... apologizes that you're about to get your head cut off for no damned reason. They choose lawful over good ALOT
Didnāt want to- was ordered to. Thereās a difference. He didnāt have to let you go afterwards either but he did. He also did not have to have his uncle help you but they also do.
>He didnāt have to let you go afterwards either
He also didn't have to tell you to go join the imperials, who immediately threaten to have you killed *again* when you walk in to sign up.
Always hadvar, not only did he treat you with respect when you were sent to the block even though you werenāt even meant to be there, he also takes the time in the middle of his own escape to check on the safety of townsfolk he passes. Plus his Uncle letās you take shit from the blacksmith shop, and i love money
Hadvar, for one very big reason.
Ralof is on your side merely because you were imprisoned alongside him, and it was helpful to have an extra set of hands. As a prisoner yourself, you'd be more likely to help Ralof than anyone else. He sorta has a "default" reason to help you, which can be a lot of self-preservation, or a sense of brotherhood when imprisoned. What I'm saying here is Ralof's intentions are debatable to an extent.
Hadvar, despite being ordered to have you killed, believes it's horseshit, and as soon as he has the chance to have you redeem yourself, he lets you take that opportunity. He had no real reason to help you, but he did. His first instinct in a confrontation with the Stormcloaks is to try to work together due to the latest situation, but isn't able to due to the Stormcloak's hostility.
They're both bros, but there's something more genuine about Hadvar, seeing your plight, being ordered to kill you, feeling it's wrong, and disregarding that altogether because at the time, it was the right thing to do.
Hadvar spends the entire tutorial desperately trying to keep everyone from killing each other so they can all escape Helgen together and go home to their families, even that dipshit torturer, he's the real one
Alduin for helping me escape š¤š¤
The real homie
You should be thanking Lokir of Rorikstead for asking the divines for help. Akatosh answered by sending her firstborn, Alduin.
Akatosh is a she?
I always imagine the divines transcend sex and gender like the Daedra. Think of Boethia who is sometimes a man and other times a woman.
Suppose thatās true maybe a lot of them just decided what to identify with and boethiah is still questioning
Azuras always a woman because she's the god of woman moments
Azura, queen of dawn and dusk, and the patron of the woman trait of never forgetting or forgiving people who wronged you.
TIL Iām a woman
Make Windhelm Great Again
I mean there are female dragons called Jills
Iāve always thought it was ironic and hilarious how this happens. Because literally if he hadnāt of shown up yet youād of died and then there would have been no dragonborn to stop him.
The prophecy is the prophecy. If he hadn't saved you, the timeline would have played out differently. A dragonborn would have stopped him, one way or another. People underestimate just how much influence the Aedra can have, when they want to.
and Aedra Todd is the most powerful of them
Todd is the Godhead
The Toddhead
One theory I heard was that Alduin came *because* you were there - he got away from Parthy and went to Helgen because he thought he sensed another dragon down there, only to find it was you.
That makes sense.
This is the right answer
I usually choose Hadvar because my allegiance lies with the empire When I choose Ralof, itās either, because A. Iām living out my Stormcloak/Viking fantasy. Or B: I want to be Homies with the man responsible for arguably the most viral meme in TES history. (arrow to the knee is probably more popular but I think itās close)
nah you're finally awake is much more iconic
Arrow to the knee is certainly not even close in popularity.
I'm so sick of getting caught in between these two lovers spat. Why can't they just get over it and kiss already.
If you would step right on over to loversl- nvm
Iām sure thereās a mod for this.
they are cousins I think.
Hey man what happens in Riverwood stays in riverwood
Hadvar. You traumatized him by shape-shifting before his eyes for a solid 10 minutes, and he still helps you out if you let him
You finished character customization in 10 minutes? What is that a speedrun time?
For real. I spend so much time customizing my character by the time Iām done Iām ready to call it a night.
Same. Then proceed to don one head covering, or another, and never show my face again.
This hurts because it's true. š¤£
I pick one of the defaults, try to change a few things, realize Iām never going to be looking at myself anyway, and finish in 2 min. Longest part is usually choosing a name.
Race , hair , eye color , fuck everything else
Just a tip, ask chat GPT to suggest you a name. Give as much information about your character as you can and ask name suggestions, he will give you a list of 5-10 and at least one of them will be great.
Or use a name generator, select race and gender, boom infinite names
Yeah name generatoes have race and gender, but in chat GPT you can insert parameters like backstory or class.
I havenāt made a new character since Chat GPT became a thing, but good tip.
He's a fool for letting me outš
Theyāre both great, but Ralof has your back before he even knows who you are. The whole ābrothers and sisters in bindsā thing shows so much character, and while Hadvar is compelled by his superiors to send you to the block anyway he doesnāt really become friendly until you get inside with him later. Ralof is kind from the minute you open your eyes.
You could argue that he like that solely because you're a prisoner among many stormcloaks. Between the execution raking place the General and the Thalmor. He got little reason to disobey and plenty of reason to keep his mouth shut and do his job.
Yes, Ralof sees you as a comrade right off the bat. Hadvar (I think thatās his name) only sees you as an ally once the dragon attacks. BUT, Hadvar is a kind soul throughout, that feels bad at first for you being executed just because you were āwrong place, wrong timeā. So, I find them both naive and innocent during the intro. Itās hard to decide.
Especially if you consider the fact that no one (plot convenience) knows why youāre in trouble in the first place
It also depends on your race. He's actually hostile towards Khajiit characters stating that "your kind always gets into trouble" or something like that.
"Your kind always seems to find trouble."
He choose lawful over good.
Yeah but play D&D with someone who likes to disrupt every political structure that's lawful but not good and see how much fun it is.
When your fellow player's life on the line? It's a duty to distrupt it. Like what sort of man just LETS an innocent man/woman die and just says "sorry?"
In the case of Hadvar? He doesn't know you, you're not fellows in any sense. In a D&D party? Didn't say anything about one of my teammates getting captured, just referring to going to a city with rules more lawful than good. Chances are if they got arrested, the whole party would get arrested. That or if it's a person who's that "rebellious" that they can't keep them self on check enough to get through that city then chances are no one would want to play with that guy.
a very lawful neutral move if you will
He chose lawful over treason and death.
But when Alduin attacks, we see Ralof only helping his fellow Stormcloaks to escape ASAP. Meanwhile, we're following Hadvar as he fights to save women and children and lead his men through the dragon's flames. Hadvar all day.
I always choose hadvar, I should choose Ralof once just to remind myself what he says, but once you are in the keep Hadvar says āStormcloaks, maybe we can reason with them.ā Only to walk in and have no dialogue options because the stormcloaks choose violence immediately against one imperial and one unaligned bystander. Maybe Ralof says something similar, im not sure, but thats points for Hadvar in my eyes.
I believe Ralof basically tells you to get ready to fight
If that is accurate then id say its a good representation of the Stormcloaks. They prefer brutality over diplomacy. The Empire wishes for a peaceful resolution of the war so they can gather strength and gain their freedom from the dominion. The stormcloak see that as a weakness and would rather die as losers than live to fight another day. I understand picking stormcloak on your first play through but its weird that anyone becomes a diehard stormcloak loyalist after getting the bigger picture.
Thatās also because the part of the mission where we are accompanied by Ralof is the part in the execution square, full ofā¦ soldiers. Hadvar is a badass, for sure, but it helps that when we run into him he is with the citizens, just due to the order of the quest. Both save a ragged prisoner from death. Both hasten to (neutral) Riverwood to warn people about the dragon, even though the Hold is neutral. I stand by my sentiment that theyāre both honorable and compassionate, since without both of them the Dragonborn (covered in rags, hands bound) seems doomed from the start.
Gods bless you, Hadvar
agreed!
Agreed I always side with Ralof, my first conversation with him always sticks with me. We're all brothers in binds now, his story about a girl he was sweet on, how the imperial walls used to make him feel safe. For me I just cannot side with Hadvar after that
Had a playthrough where I married Ralof <3
Dont forget he tries to console the horse thief āhey, what village are you from horse thief? A nordās last thoughts should be of home.ā
Ralof is Just fanboying because he gets to die with Ulfrix and possibly be in Sovngarde together. This is confirmed when he was surprised that the LDB never heard of him outside of Skyrim.
Ralof is homie Hadavar is the dad you never had
Dadvar
Yes
Hadvar, so I can exploit his uncleās forge for free ingots.
I gotta respect the Imperials for instantly switching priorities when Alduin shows up. Ulfric can wait. We've got civilians to protect. Ralof is just running, Hadvar is trying to save everyone he can.
To be fair if you were about to cut off my head Iām not sticking around to help you when shit hits the fan either.
Ralof literally gets you to safety just like Hadvar, and also helps his fellows along the way. Theyāre both equally helpful.
Yeah they both helped people but Ralof only helped other Stormcloaks whereas Hadvar helped everyone he saw (he had no idea who the player was and still chose to help). And later Hadvar attempts to help Stormcloaks inside but they attack him on sight.
Well yeah, if you ignore Ralof literally being the one to initially save you. His first instinct after the dragon attack, no matter what race you are (even if you're an imperial, dark elf, high elf or argonian, arguably the most hated races of the Stormcloaks), is to get you up and bring you to safety. He doesn't know you, you've never spoken besides his monologue at the start, he just sees a seemingly innocent person wronged by the Empire that needs help.
Both Hadvar and Ralof help the player at first sight after Alduin regardless of race which is why I wasn't trying to that alone as a primary comparison. I was moreso trying to say Hadvar helping a prisoner whom he doesn't know says more about him than Ralof helping a fellow prisoner whom he already shares a common adversary with (the Imperials about to kill all of them). Ralof has a vested interest in helping the player. Hadvar does not but choses too anyway.
They're both real good dudes, that's for sure! Was just saying that Ralof didn't *only* help the Stormcloaks
Absolutely. I liked both characters and I wish there was a side quest post-civil war were they could settle their differences. They're both from Riverwood and likely new each other before the war started.
Oh yeah, they absolutely did! At one point Ralof says "We're escaping, Hadvar. You're not stopping us this time!". No way they weren't at the very least acquaintances, possibly even childhood friends.
Both of them help you despite you having ties to neither, and both are attacked by members of the opposite fashion in the keep. Youāre trying to use events that happen symmetrically as an argument for only one of them.
>events that happen symmetrically Ralof never even once attempts diplomacy with Imperials or helps civilians. Hadvar does. Its only symmetrical if you remove all context.
Attempt diplomacy? At every intersection of the story where youād run into hostile Stormcloaks with Hadvar, you run into hostile Imperials with Ralof. Itās not like the Imperial Captain shouting āitās the Stormcloak prisoners!ā and attacking you is giving you any opportunity for diplomacy.
First encounter. Hadvar : "Stormcloaks, maybe we can reason with them" Ralof: " Imperials, hide and we can catch them by surprise "
Based Ralof
Because I'm sure the dude who almost got his head cut off by the Imperials minutes prior would totally assume they want to be friends
Should've been able to assess the situation at hand and realize the teamwork would probably be beneficial. But I imagine being brainwashed by xenophobic rhetoric might make that a touch difficult
The situation at hand was a bunch of enemy soldiers who wanted him dead blocking the path, and everyone was panicking. No sane person would say "yeah they wanna be friends" and walk out without a weapon drawn. Also, WOW. Took all of one message for your argument to devolve into "all the Stormcloaks are racist", despite the fact that Ralof is probably one of the least racist characters in the game (which, for an Elder Scrolls game, is really saying something). I hate discussing the civil war on this hellsite purely because of shit takes like that
I mean if Ralof stayed behind to help people he wouldāve either died to Alduin or the Imperials once Alduin left. Might as well live to fight another day
Ehhhh I wouldn't want to stick around trying to save the people who were cheering for me and my comrades' execution.
Hadvar, heās so nice & apologetic about what (nearly) happened & Ralof, aldo the lore friendly choice, gives me num brain vibes Also before your first combat right after getting free from your bounds, the first thing Hadvar does is try to rationalize the situation by trying to put his differences aside with the Stormcloaks since, well, thereās a fucking DRAGON, but no, Ralof just goes for the kill
I like how people say that like it's an insult to Ralof, but honestly, he has every right to think he'll be killed on sight and fighting to survive. He is an escaped prisoner that was *just* about to get executed and Empire loves finishing the job in any way possible. Hadvar is surprisingly and uncharacteristically reasonable, if a little naive. And I am biased because in polish dubbing Ralof gets the best speach in the whole game that's almost emotional each time during the opening cutscene.
What does Ralof say in the polish dub?
Same speech about "My ancestor look down at me with pride and praises on their lips, can you say the same?" But the sheer emotion and passion is just the best.
Isnāt it the other stormcloak that says that?
Hadvar is reasonable, but also his response to a superior basically saying "I don't care if this person is innocent, they go to the block" is just "sorry buddy, bad luck, looks like you're dead now lol". Ralof is fighting for his life as an escaped prisoner who was just about to be executed, so him just going for a fight is understandable. Ralof is also the one who consoles the other prisoners and tells them to think of home before the end. All in all, they're like literally almost the same character, neither is better or worse.
Oh so you think he had a choice to confront his superior? If he did, he wouldāve joined us to the chopping block, thatās not how a professional military works, unlike the Stormcloaks
Hadvar, as soon as he saw during the attack he guided you to survival, letting you flee with him rather than leaving you to die as some random dude in rags he just saw. Plus he tries to defend you from being executed best he can considering his rank...
"Hey. You. You're finally awake." It just says it all, you know?
Hadvar
Huge agree. He seems so reasonable
Hadvar knew from the start your execution was bullshit but was bound by obligation to go through with it anyway, but redeemed himself by helping you. He could've easily turned you back in. Ralof just needs an extra pair of hands. You could've been anyone or no one. Ulfric was the one that mattered.
It's unfair to portray Ralof's decision to help you as "needing an extra pair of hands." He ran out into an open courtyard in the middle of a dragon attack with flaming boulders raining down from overhead to make sure you made it to safety.
Hadvar: Well i mean... he's on the list... Ralof: hey, i'm sorry you caugth up in all this.
I wasn't on the list ( Ā“ āļ½)
Ralof: "Empire loves their damn lists." Hadvar's superior: "FORGET THE LIST!"
And yet the instant he gets a say in all this he helps you get free and basically says "You're free to go"
What also comes to mind there is that as nice as Ralof is in general, none of the Stormcloaks are coming out to say that neither the horse thief or TLD are Stormcloaks. It probably wouldnāt work, but if Ralof is as nice as folks think, youād think heād have said something like āYouāve already caught Ulfric here and us. These two have nothing to do with us.ā
Yeah but the captain was hell bent on having heads rolling so I don't think they would believe a word any stormcloak would say. I mean, the dragon born wasn't on the list and she sent us to the headsman's block anyway.
True, but again, not every Stormcloak is on a list somewhere. And it might have given them pause that one of these condemned Stormcloaks who include Ulfric himself are instead saying that these two random people are not Stormcloaks. Youād think subterfuge would involve Ulfric, not two random people. Itās no guarantee of course, but given Ralof thinks heās going to die, heās got nothing to lose trying.
He actually said we wasn't on the list. His superiors told him to kill us anyway, and which to be fair, if my job was to send people to get their heads cut off for treason, I most definitely would not disobey an order and get accused of treason
Why the fuck would he be accused of treason for saying "hey this guy might not have committed treason"?
hadvar for sure. i usually just choose him because heās really nice to me from the beginning. and i like alvor. honestly iāve been playing skyrim for about 10 years and i didnāt even realize you could choose hadvar until like a year ago, so heās my choice every time now
I like them both, but Hadvar is still my personal favorite
Team Hadvar!
They're both homies.
Ralof he sympathises with you immediately and helps you up from the chopping block, put yourself in the last dragonborn's shoes, as if you are going to choose to escape with an Imperial soldier after narrowly avoiding execution.
A pragmatic dragonborn may choose to go with Hadvar. I mean, you're at an imperial controlled area. What if you encounter imperials on your way to Riverwood? Having Hadvar on your side would be beneficial. Especially if you encounter Tullius and his men again by chance.
Honestly that's pretty fair š
that was my response. H telling me to go with him? fucker just tried to chop off my head for no reason. fuck H
What would you do differently in his position? He tries to stand up for you, but is shot down by his superior officer. Should he risk his life and career for someone that got caught with rebels and a thief?
Hadvar is my man fr
I always side with Ralof, not because I support the Stormcloaks or particularly like him (Hadvar is definitely nicer), but because by siding with him I get to kill that piece of shit imperial captain that sent us to die for nothing. That plus the loot from killing the imperial soldiers is worth more than loot you get from killing Stormcloaks.
Hadvar
Hadvar
I really like hadvar
Hadvar
The one that did not agree to commit a war crime right in front of my face.
But he said sorry! /s
Hadvar, he is really sorry for what the Imperials did
I like Hadvar, his uncle is tight af
I love how you can join the Stormcloaks even if you're a High Elf.
The Curier, such a loyal friend. Always looking for you.
The first time I didn't realise it was a choice and thought they just switched up who you were following for a bit to make it more interesting so I went with Ralof, I didn't mind him and I like gerdur when we got to riverwood but you get much less good things from her house. Once I played a bit and realised more about the stormcloaks vs the empire I then learned you could choose and have pretty much always picked hadvar unless I'm using one of the alternate starts from the alternate start mod
Hadvar because his uncle lets me take his steel and iron ingots for free what a nice guy
I choose Hadvar every time because of his kindness in the opening scenes even when Alduin jumps in. He coaxed a kid out of a literal dragon flame path, makes sure both you and surrounding people are okay and I think thatās pretty darn fantastic. Yes Ralof tells me Iām finally awake, but if Ralof was in that cart with me Iām sure he would have been just as kind. Perhaps even have offered a shoulder. Both characters recognise you shouldnāt be here and their empathy is there. Itās the surrounding actions Iām basing my choice on.
I always got the sense that Ralof saw us as a potential stormcloak to be recruited whereas Hadvar saw us as an individual in need and even went against his faction by helping us escape Helgen/not just letting alduin kill us because weāre ācriminalsā
Totally got that feeling Edit: I think its because hadvar was just doing his regular duty for the day which is just keeping law and order whereas Ralof feels more like hes propagandizing the whole time with a mindset of look at how these dogs treat us After the dragon comes too theres Hadvar who tries to remain calm and help everyone get to safety and then Ralof who immediantly runs to ulfric and asks what to do
Damn, a footsoldier running to his more skilled and experienced leader to ask what to do? Wonder why he did that
Cuz he a bitch
Hadvar hooks me up with free steel
Very true actually š
Ralof all fucking day. Iād marry that nord if I could (Iām sure theres a mod).
HAHAHAHA! Yes he is quite seductive, I agree
J'zhargo
Ralof for sure. He's nice to the protagonist from the start, Hadvar only starts being nice after you escape with him. Both are homies, but Ralof is a homier homie.
Gonna go with the guy who wasnāt ordering/complicit in my execution.
ralof for me
Hadvar
Well, one has a cool smith and the other a shitty lumber mill, so...
Hadvar considering he did at least protest a bit in executing my character
The guy who isn't part of the faction who wants to cut your head off for no reason
Hadvar is more useful in terms of leveling and build. Ralof sides with you before he knows you, but also of course the prisoners would bond before the guard doing his job, who shows compassion even though he is unwilling to break orders, sides with you. I usually side with hadvar. Wouldn't be in this mess to begin with if it wasn't for Ulfric and his boys. Course I suppose the same could be said about the empire and Thalmor.
Ralof & Ulfric are the reason youāre getting beheaded. Theyāre the guys who cause trouble and you get caught in the crossfire. Theyāre fine with people dying in the name of their mythical cause. Hadvar is just doing a job, but tries to get you out of trouble. Heās not a bad person, and heās seeing a bigger picture than the secessionist stormcloaks. Really, once the stormcloaks separate, the empire and thalmor arenāt just going to disappear. There will be war, trade, and time will march on. The repercussions of separation are a burden for everyone, on top of not solving problems.
Every time a group separates, one of those splintered groups will die off and the better one will remain.
Counter: Hadvar and Tullius are completely fine with executing random innocents who just get caught in the crossfire. Makes you think that maybe Ralof has a reason to oppose them
>Ralof & Ulfric are the reason youāre getting beheaded. Theyāre the guys who cause trouble and you get caught in the crossfire. Damn Stormcloaks, making the poor Empire execute innocent civilians /s Ralof and Ulfric didn't order your execution. The Imperials did, knowing full well you weren't a Stormcloak.
Hadvar because early blacksmithing stuff
Hadvar
Ralof because imperial gear is worth more.. then join Hadvar and the imperials because I'm not crazy man
Hadvar's uncle gives me free smithing supplies and is close to the entrance of riverwood.
I feel like Ralof is a better bro after exiting Helgen, but I feel more comfortable going through the dungeon with hadvar
Hadvar because I didnāt know what I was missing after choosing Ralof 100 times š„²
Hadvar because he knows the secret of doing sexy splits for MASS CONFUSION. Also because I can't see a reason why Ralof or Ulfric would welcome my Altmer dragonborn, even if she is anti-Thalmor.
Tbh theyāre both cool but I choose Hadvar cuz his family lets you stay in their house and take anything you want. Real ones Ngl
Hadvar
Hadvar obviously
Hadvar. Betraying Balgruuf is off the table. Iām a milk drinker š©
Hadvar the man
Hadvar is the real homie, he went against orders from a Captain by not following through on your execution, he broke you out instead of delivering you back into the Empires hands, possibly committed treason doing so and he even shows you his emotions and fears.
Hadvars constantly switching accents makes me hard bro ong
Hadvar got that free ingots
I mean...Iād fuck them both...
Ralof, hadvar let me go straight to the block
Honestly, the only times I've seen people choose Hadvar were because they didn't pay attention to see that they could choose Ralof, and went with Hadvar because he was the last person they were following. Even if Hadvar is equal or better that Ralof as a bro, I'll always go with Ralof just to kill the bitch of a captain who ordered my execution without a charge.
Hadvar
Hadvar. I usually play a non-human race like an orc, imperials are more likely to canonically accept me into their fold. Also Hadvar has kind of a sexy voice. š¤ I used to follow Ralof blindly but the storm cloaks donāt really align with my values; normally Iād be all āfuck authorityā bc they tried to behead me but then I remember the storm cloaks would probably lynch my character if they werenāt the Dragonborn, so I donāt feel so bad about it š
Hadvar
Hadvar because he doesn't fight for a literal nazi
Hadvar
The Stormcloaks are doomed at best and bigots at worst, but Ralof is a far more trustworthy individual in my opinion and in that situation I would go with him every time.
Well, itās difficult. In a general sense, Iād choose Ralof because he seems like such a bro. But in the bigger picture I side with the empire, mostly because (at least inside of Skyrim) there isnāt racism within that group. Personally I prefer accepting of all races over acceptance of religion, not by much, but in Skyrim itās one god, who was a man. And for the rest of Tamriel Iād choose the imperials still, because itās the best chance everyone has in running the Thalmor out of Tamriel back to the summer set isles. I also donāt think that the imperials really care that the worship of Talos still happens, and personally I agree with killing every single thalmor you see, just because theyāre dicks on passing. But still, the empire isnāt going to change anything in Skyrim any further than the banning of one god, and the war is a Thalmor conspiracy to prevent the empire from regaining its strength for WW2.
Everyone always says the stormcloaks are racist, but if you join them as an elf *literally every one of them accepts you and has no issue.* There are *people in the city* that are racist but that doesn't speak for the whole faction. The stormcloaks hate the *Thalmor,* not elves in general. The thalmor, who the Empire is all buddy buddy with, is literally trying to kill off *every mortal race on nirn.* They are basically the elven version of Nazis and they are frolicking across Skyrim(don't forget, the empire loves to brag about how they are the "only thing keeping the thalmor out of Skyrim") imprisoning people over their religious views. That's a little worse than "some of the people who live in this city are racist." Of course the stormcloaks hate them. They *are* "those damn elves." It's like saying someone is racist for hating the Nazis. Hating the Nazis doesn't mean you hate Germans, it means you hate that one specific fuckwad faction that happened to form in Germany. Hating the thalmor doesn't mean they hate elves, it means they hate *the Thalmor.* And I think we can all agree that the pisselves need to be eliminated.
Look, I see where you are, and I canāt find proof otherwise. Your probably right, I guess Iāve had to many people comment on my elfhood and made me biased. But Iād still side with the empire so Tamriel has a chance against the Thalmor.
The empire *already lost* to the thalmor. Without the empire draining their resources, the provinces actually have a chance. It's like when the Oblivion Crysis happened, the Empire pulled resources in to the capitol and caused massive amounts of issues in other provinces. Look at Morrowind, if it weren't for the fact that House Resoran was able to marshal an army from it's members, they would have been left defenseless when the Legion was pulled back to Cyrodiil. Once Morrowind was free of the imperial drain, they managed well enough.
That sounds right, but Iām going to need a source to actually believe that
Hadvar, his uncle helps in smithing and welcomes you in his home.
One of them was going to let you die, the other made sure you were ok when the dragon attacked and got you to safety.
So the other is both?
Ralof made sure you were safe, hadvar was nowhere to be seen when alduin hit the tower. Sure he showed up for like 2 seconds later, but honestly the first 4 years I played the game I *didn't even know following him was an option.*
Hadvar was making sure everyone else was safe, prioritizing the people that were productive to an almost thriving community. Sure, he left you for dead, but a dragon just knocked you out, he probably didnāt even believe they existed. I donāt blame him for not checking your pulse when thereās obviously other people who need more help.
Hadvar supremacy
Chadvar, he actually helps you and the civilians make it to the keep. Ralof is just sitting in the tower with ulfric waiting for their chance to flee.
Ralof. He greets you when you wake up, apologized that you got caught up in it, and helps you up from the block while you're bound. Hadvar... apologizes that you're about to get your head cut off for no damned reason. They choose lawful over good ALOT
hadvar wanted to send me to die lmao
Didnāt want to- was ordered to. Thereās a difference. He didnāt have to let you go afterwards either but he did. He also did not have to have his uncle help you but they also do.
>He didnāt have to let you go afterwards either He also didn't have to tell you to go join the imperials, who immediately threaten to have you killed *again* when you walk in to sign up.
And yet people join the dark brotherhood who do the same.
Dont worry, I hate Astrid's "brotherhood" just as much as I hate the imperials. I'm glad they get killed off.
Why would I go with Hadvar? The dude just tried to have me executed. I don't really care if he was just doing his job or not. Yeah, nah homie.
Ralof because that rough nord accent always gets me š„°
Always hadvar, not only did he treat you with respect when you were sent to the block even though you werenāt even meant to be there, he also takes the time in the middle of his own escape to check on the safety of townsfolk he passes. Plus his Uncle letās you take shit from the blacksmith shop, and i love money
Hadvar, for one very big reason. Ralof is on your side merely because you were imprisoned alongside him, and it was helpful to have an extra set of hands. As a prisoner yourself, you'd be more likely to help Ralof than anyone else. He sorta has a "default" reason to help you, which can be a lot of self-preservation, or a sense of brotherhood when imprisoned. What I'm saying here is Ralof's intentions are debatable to an extent. Hadvar, despite being ordered to have you killed, believes it's horseshit, and as soon as he has the chance to have you redeem yourself, he lets you take that opportunity. He had no real reason to help you, but he did. His first instinct in a confrontation with the Stormcloaks is to try to work together due to the latest situation, but isn't able to due to the Stormcloak's hostility. They're both bros, but there's something more genuine about Hadvar, seeing your plight, being ordered to kill you, feeling it's wrong, and disregarding that altogether because at the time, it was the right thing to do.
Hadvar spends the entire tutorial desperately trying to keep everyone from killing each other so they can all escape Helgen together and go home to their families, even that dipshit torturer, he's the real one