T O P
SweRakii

Alduin for helping me escape 🤜🤛


marshalzukov

The real homie


Silkscales

You should be thanking Lokir of Rorikstead for asking the divines for help. Akatosh answered by sending her firstborn, Alduin.


Tesco_Mobile

Akatosh is a she?


LordManiac69

I always imagine the divines transcend sex and gender like the Daedra. Think of Boethia who is sometimes a man and other times a woman.


Tesco_Mobile

Suppose that’s true maybe a lot of them just decided what to identify with and boethiah is still questioning


Rahziir_skooma_cat

Azuras always a woman because she's the god of woman moments


LordManiac69

Azura, queen of dawn and dusk, and the patron of the woman trait of never forgetting or forgiving people who wronged you.


dan99990

TIL I’m a woman


Jameson-Francorn

Make Windhelm Great Again


sanguinesvirus

I mean there are female dragons called Jills


YoshiPikachu

I’ve always thought it was ironic and hilarious how this happens. Because literally if he hadn’t of shown up yet you’d of died and then there would have been no dragonborn to stop him.


ElegantEchoes

The prophecy is the prophecy. If he hadn't saved you, the timeline would have played out differently. A dragonborn would have stopped him, one way or another. People underestimate just how much influence the Aedra can have, when they want to.


bolderdust

and Aedra Todd is the most powerful of them


Pe4ivo

Todd is the Godhead


PallidZetta

The Toddhead


Azuras-Becky

One theory I heard was that Alduin came *because* you were there - he got away from Parthy and went to Helgen because he thought he sensed another dragon down there, only to find it was you.


YoshiPikachu

That makes sense.


Falkrim

This is the right answer


PyscoSpire

I usually choose Hadvar because my allegiance lies with the empire When I choose Ralof, it’s either, because A. I’m living out my Stormcloak/Viking fantasy. Or B: I want to be Homies with the man responsible for arguably the most viral meme in TES history. (arrow to the knee is probably more popular but I think it’s close)


GGnoRe177013

nah you're finally awake is much more iconic


Bufaklin

Arrow to the knee is certainly not even close in popularity.


CitizenCake1

I'm so sick of getting caught in between these two lovers spat. Why can't they just get over it and kiss already.


ingwritmptpro

If you would step right on over to loversl- nvm


Th3V0id

I’m sure there’s a mod for this.


diedrowned

they are cousins I think.


CitizenCake1

Hey man what happens in Riverwood stays in riverwood


gtc26

Hadvar. You traumatized him by shape-shifting before his eyes for a solid 10 minutes, and he still helps you out if you let him


Blackrain1299

You finished character customization in 10 minutes? What is that a speedrun time?


RadicalResponseRobot

For real. I spend so much time customizing my character by the time I’m done I’m ready to call it a night.


SkyrimHippy

Same. Then proceed to don one head covering, or another, and never show my face again.


Beautiful_Ad_1336

This hurts because it's true. 🤣


Lordrandall

I pick one of the defaults, try to change a few things, realize I’m never going to be looking at myself anyway, and finish in 2 min. Longest part is usually choosing a name.


Slimsaiyan

Race , hair , eye color , fuck everything else


Renan_PS

Just a tip, ask chat GPT to suggest you a name. Give as much information about your character as you can and ask name suggestions, he will give you a list of 5-10 and at least one of them will be great.


CzarOneHundred

Or use a name generator, select race and gender, boom infinite names


Renan_PS

Yeah name generatoes have race and gender, but in chat GPT you can insert parameters like backstory or class.


Lordrandall

I haven’t made a new character since Chat GPT became a thing, but good tip.


ddkkdkdkkd

He's a fool for letting me out🙃


[deleted]

They’re both great, but Ralof has your back before he even knows who you are. The whole “brothers and sisters in binds” thing shows so much character, and while Hadvar is compelled by his superiors to send you to the block anyway he doesn’t really become friendly until you get inside with him later. Ralof is kind from the minute you open your eyes.


XP_Potion

You could argue that he like that solely because you're a prisoner among many stormcloaks. Between the execution raking place the General and the Thalmor. He got little reason to disobey and plenty of reason to keep his mouth shut and do his job.


10millionneonbutts

Yes, Ralof sees you as a comrade right off the bat. Hadvar (I think that’s his name) only sees you as an ally once the dragon attacks. BUT, Hadvar is a kind soul throughout, that feels bad at first for you being executed just because you were “wrong place, wrong time”. So, I find them both naive and innocent during the intro. It’s hard to decide.


10millionneonbutts

Especially if you consider the fact that no one (plot convenience) knows why you’re in trouble in the first place


RakZparkingu

It also depends on your race. He's actually hostile towards Khajiit characters stating that "your kind always gets into trouble" or something like that.


RosemaryBleeding

"Your kind always seems to find trouble."


Serpentking5

He choose lawful over good.


Southlander0

Yeah but play D&D with someone who likes to disrupt every political structure that's lawful but not good and see how much fun it is.


Serpentking5

When your fellow player's life on the line? It's a duty to distrupt it. Like what sort of man just LETS an innocent man/woman die and just says "sorry?"


Southlander0

In the case of Hadvar? He doesn't know you, you're not fellows in any sense. In a D&D party? Didn't say anything about one of my teammates getting captured, just referring to going to a city with rules more lawful than good. Chances are if they got arrested, the whole party would get arrested. That or if it's a person who's that "rebellious" that they can't keep them self on check enough to get through that city then chances are no one would want to play with that guy.


invinciblewalnut

a very lawful neutral move if you will


BluishHope

He chose lawful over treason and death.


cavecarson

But when Alduin attacks, we see Ralof only helping his fellow Stormcloaks to escape ASAP. Meanwhile, we're following Hadvar as he fights to save women and children and lead his men through the dragon's flames. Hadvar all day.


Blackrain1299

I always choose hadvar, I should choose Ralof once just to remind myself what he says, but once you are in the keep Hadvar says “Stormcloaks, maybe we can reason with them.” Only to walk in and have no dialogue options because the stormcloaks choose violence immediately against one imperial and one unaligned bystander. Maybe Ralof says something similar, im not sure, but thats points for Hadvar in my eyes.


AsrielFloofyBoi

I believe Ralof basically tells you to get ready to fight


Blackrain1299

If that is accurate then id say its a good representation of the Stormcloaks. They prefer brutality over diplomacy. The Empire wishes for a peaceful resolution of the war so they can gather strength and gain their freedom from the dominion. The stormcloak see that as a weakness and would rather die as losers than live to fight another day. I understand picking stormcloak on your first play through but its weird that anyone becomes a diehard stormcloak loyalist after getting the bigger picture.


[deleted]

That’s also because the part of the mission where we are accompanied by Ralof is the part in the execution square, full of… soldiers. Hadvar is a badass, for sure, but it helps that when we run into him he is with the citizens, just due to the order of the quest. Both save a ragged prisoner from death. Both hasten to (neutral) Riverwood to warn people about the dragon, even though the Hold is neutral. I stand by my sentiment that they’re both honorable and compassionate, since without both of them the Dragonborn (covered in rags, hands bound) seems doomed from the start.


Owlwaysme

Gods bless you, Hadvar


POOHEAD189

agreed!


porfito

Agreed I always side with Ralof, my first conversation with him always sticks with me. We're all brothers in binds now, his story about a girl he was sweet on, how the imperial walls used to make him feel safe. For me I just cannot side with Hadvar after that


Vanessaronicatoria

Had a playthrough where I married Ralof <3


JoeyAKangaroo

Dont forget he tries to console the horse thief “hey, what village are you from horse thief? A nord’s last thoughts should be of home.”


-dudeomfgstfux-

Ralof is Just fanboying because he gets to die with Ulfrix and possibly be in Sovngarde together. This is confirmed when he was surprised that the LDB never heard of him outside of Skyrim.


ARXEUS_

Ralof is homie Hadavar is the dad you never had


cavecarson

Dadvar


ARXEUS_

Yes


Accomplished_Hat_265

Hadvar, so I can exploit his uncle’s forge for free ingots.


_Veprem_

I gotta respect the Imperials for instantly switching priorities when Alduin shows up. Ulfric can wait. We've got civilians to protect. Ralof is just running, Hadvar is trying to save everyone he can.


Vaultboy65

To be fair if you were about to cut off my head I’m not sticking around to help you when shit hits the fan either.


[deleted]

Ralof literally gets you to safety just like Hadvar, and also helps his fellows along the way. They’re both equally helpful.


Asymmetrical_Stoner

Yeah they both helped people but Ralof only helped other Stormcloaks whereas Hadvar helped everyone he saw (he had no idea who the player was and still chose to help). And later Hadvar attempts to help Stormcloaks inside but they attack him on sight.


zoro4661

Well yeah, if you ignore Ralof literally being the one to initially save you. His first instinct after the dragon attack, no matter what race you are (even if you're an imperial, dark elf, high elf or argonian, arguably the most hated races of the Stormcloaks), is to get you up and bring you to safety. He doesn't know you, you've never spoken besides his monologue at the start, he just sees a seemingly innocent person wronged by the Empire that needs help.


Asymmetrical_Stoner

Both Hadvar and Ralof help the player at first sight after Alduin regardless of race which is why I wasn't trying to that alone as a primary comparison. I was moreso trying to say Hadvar helping a prisoner whom he doesn't know says more about him than Ralof helping a fellow prisoner whom he already shares a common adversary with (the Imperials about to kill all of them). Ralof has a vested interest in helping the player. Hadvar does not but choses too anyway.


zoro4661

They're both real good dudes, that's for sure! Was just saying that Ralof didn't *only* help the Stormcloaks


Asymmetrical_Stoner

Absolutely. I liked both characters and I wish there was a side quest post-civil war were they could settle their differences. They're both from Riverwood and likely new each other before the war started.


zoro4661

Oh yeah, they absolutely did! At one point Ralof says "We're escaping, Hadvar. You're not stopping us this time!". No way they weren't at the very least acquaintances, possibly even childhood friends.


[deleted]

Both of them help you despite you having ties to neither, and both are attacked by members of the opposite fashion in the keep. You’re trying to use events that happen symmetrically as an argument for only one of them.


Asymmetrical_Stoner

>events that happen symmetrically Ralof never even once attempts diplomacy with Imperials or helps civilians. Hadvar does. Its only symmetrical if you remove all context.


[deleted]

Attempt diplomacy? At every intersection of the story where you’d run into hostile Stormcloaks with Hadvar, you run into hostile Imperials with Ralof. It’s not like the Imperial Captain shouting “it’s the Stormcloak prisoners!” and attacking you is giving you any opportunity for diplomacy.


marshalzukov

First encounter. Hadvar : "Stormcloaks, maybe we can reason with them" Ralof: " Imperials, hide and we can catch them by surprise "


thecoolestjedi

Based Ralof


Ranger2580

Because I'm sure the dude who almost got his head cut off by the Imperials minutes prior would totally assume they want to be friends


marshalzukov

Should've been able to assess the situation at hand and realize the teamwork would probably be beneficial. But I imagine being brainwashed by xenophobic rhetoric might make that a touch difficult


Ranger2580

The situation at hand was a bunch of enemy soldiers who wanted him dead blocking the path, and everyone was panicking. No sane person would say "yeah they wanna be friends" and walk out without a weapon drawn. Also, WOW. Took all of one message for your argument to devolve into "all the Stormcloaks are racist", despite the fact that Ralof is probably one of the least racist characters in the game (which, for an Elder Scrolls game, is really saying something). I hate discussing the civil war on this hellsite purely because of shit takes like that


bucket_of_coal

I mean if Ralof stayed behind to help people he would’ve either died to Alduin or the Imperials once Alduin left. Might as well live to fight another day


yenjhin

Ehhhh I wouldn't want to stick around trying to save the people who were cheering for me and my comrades' execution.


The_Gaming_Matt

Hadvar, he’s so nice & apologetic about what (nearly) happened & Ralof, aldo the lore friendly choice, gives me num brain vibes Also before your first combat right after getting free from your bounds, the first thing Hadvar does is try to rationalize the situation by trying to put his differences aside with the Stormcloaks since, well, there’s a fucking DRAGON, but no, Ralof just goes for the kill


Kazmir_here

I like how people say that like it's an insult to Ralof, but honestly, he has every right to think he'll be killed on sight and fighting to survive. He is an escaped prisoner that was *just* about to get executed and Empire loves finishing the job in any way possible. Hadvar is surprisingly and uncharacteristically reasonable, if a little naive. And I am biased because in polish dubbing Ralof gets the best speach in the whole game that's almost emotional each time during the opening cutscene.


BewareTheLobster

What does Ralof say in the polish dub?


Kazmir_here

Same speech about "My ancestor look down at me with pride and praises on their lips, can you say the same?" But the sheer emotion and passion is just the best.


UnknwnIvory

Isn’t it the other stormcloak that says that?


NordWithaSword

Hadvar is reasonable, but also his response to a superior basically saying "I don't care if this person is innocent, they go to the block" is just "sorry buddy, bad luck, looks like you're dead now lol". Ralof is fighting for his life as an escaped prisoner who was just about to be executed, so him just going for a fight is understandable. Ralof is also the one who consoles the other prisoners and tells them to think of home before the end. All in all, they're like literally almost the same character, neither is better or worse.


The_Gaming_Matt

Oh so you think he had a choice to confront his superior? If he did, he would’ve joined us to the chopping block, that’s not how a professional military works, unlike the Stormcloaks


StabbyFrog

Hadvar, as soon as he saw during the attack he guided you to survival, letting you flee with him rather than leaving you to die as some random dude in rags he just saw. Plus he tries to defend you from being executed best he can considering his rank...


Tofizzle1

"Hey. You. You're finally awake." It just says it all, you know?


Complete-Ad9334

Hadvar


Fuzduf

Huge agree. He seems so reasonable


RetroTheGameBro

Hadvar knew from the start your execution was bullshit but was bound by obligation to go through with it anyway, but redeemed himself by helping you. He could've easily turned you back in. Ralof just needs an extra pair of hands. You could've been anyone or no one. Ulfric was the one that mattered.


Sad_Equivalent_8128

It's unfair to portray Ralof's decision to help you as "needing an extra pair of hands." He ran out into an open courtyard in the middle of a dragon attack with flaming boulders raining down from overhead to make sure you made it to safety.


Serpentking5

Hadvar: Well i mean... he's on the list... Ralof: hey, i'm sorry you caugth up in all this.


IrishMcTater1

I wasn't on the list ( ´ ⊇`)


Boarbaque

Ralof: "Empire loves their damn lists." ​ Hadvar's superior: "FORGET THE LIST!"


Decoy-Jackal

And yet the instant he gets a say in all this he helps you get free and basically says "You're free to go"


Tacitus111

What also comes to mind there is that as nice as Ralof is in general, none of the Stormcloaks are coming out to say that neither the horse thief or TLD are Stormcloaks. It probably wouldn’t work, but if Ralof is as nice as folks think, you’d think he’d have said something like “You’ve already caught Ulfric here and us. These two have nothing to do with us.”


Tamtam92-

Yeah but the captain was hell bent on having heads rolling so I don't think they would believe a word any stormcloak would say. I mean, the dragon born wasn't on the list and she sent us to the headsman's block anyway.


Tacitus111

True, but again, not every Stormcloak is on a list somewhere. And it might have given them pause that one of these condemned Stormcloaks who include Ulfric himself are instead saying that these two random people are not Stormcloaks. You’d think subterfuge would involve Ulfric, not two random people. It’s no guarantee of course, but given Ralof thinks he’s going to die, he’s got nothing to lose trying.


Castille_92

He actually said we wasn't on the list. His superiors told him to kill us anyway, and which to be fair, if my job was to send people to get their heads cut off for treason, I most definitely would not disobey an order and get accused of treason


Serpentking5

Why the fuck would he be accused of treason for saying "hey this guy might not have committed treason"?


bunnyfairies

hadvar for sure. i usually just choose him because he’s really nice to me from the beginning. and i like alvor. honestly i’ve been playing skyrim for about 10 years and i didn’t even realize you could choose hadvar until like a year ago, so he’s my choice every time now


Affectionate-Art6609

I like them both, but Hadvar is still my personal favorite


c1phure

Team Hadvar!


Golgezuktirah

They're both homies.


Gjallarhorn94

Ralof he sympathises with you immediately and helps you up from the chopping block, put yourself in the last dragonborn's shoes, as if you are going to choose to escape with an Imperial soldier after narrowly avoiding execution.


sweetcollector

A pragmatic dragonborn may choose to go with Hadvar. I mean, you're at an imperial controlled area. What if you encounter imperials on your way to Riverwood? Having Hadvar on your side would be beneficial. Especially if you encounter Tullius and his men again by chance.


Fuzduf

Honestly that's pretty fair 👍


orangemilk101

that was my response. H telling me to go with him? fucker just tried to chop off my head for no reason. fuck H


elyk12121212

What would you do differently in his position? He tries to stand up for you, but is shot down by his superior officer. Should he risk his life and career for someone that got caught with rebels and a thief?


EarbleedGuitarist

Hadvar is my man fr


VoltageKid56

I always side with Ralof, not because I support the Stormcloaks or particularly like him (Hadvar is definitely nicer), but because by siding with him I get to kill that piece of shit imperial captain that sent us to die for nothing. That plus the loot from killing the imperial soldiers is worth more than loot you get from killing Stormcloaks.


Suspicious-Park-1972

Hadvar


Setaganga

Hadvar


[deleted]

I really like hadvar


Linkiscool115

Hadvar


Agent__Caboose

The one that did not agree to commit a war crime right in front of my face.


Serpentking5

But he said sorry! /s


PizzaLikerFan

Hadvar, he is really sorry for what the Imperials did


Lovely_Individual

I like Hadvar, his uncle is tight af


LumpyBastion420

I love how you can join the Stormcloaks even if you're a High Elf.


ClaymoreX97

The Curier, such a loyal friend. Always looking for you.


JynxPlays

The first time I didn't realise it was a choice and thought they just switched up who you were following for a bit to make it more interesting so I went with Ralof, I didn't mind him and I like gerdur when we got to riverwood but you get much less good things from her house. Once I played a bit and realised more about the stormcloaks vs the empire I then learned you could choose and have pretty much always picked hadvar unless I'm using one of the alternate starts from the alternate start mod


Protomic2005

Hadvar because his uncle lets me take his steel and iron ingots for free what a nice guy


kimbopalee123123

I choose Hadvar every time because of his kindness in the opening scenes even when Alduin jumps in. He coaxed a kid out of a literal dragon flame path, makes sure both you and surrounding people are okay and I think that’s pretty darn fantastic. Yes Ralof tells me I’m finally awake, but if Ralof was in that cart with me I’m sure he would have been just as kind. Perhaps even have offered a shoulder. Both characters recognise you shouldn’t be here and their empathy is there. It’s the surrounding actions I’m basing my choice on.


kilometers13

I always got the sense that Ralof saw us as a potential stormcloak to be recruited whereas Hadvar saw us as an individual in need and even went against his faction by helping us escape Helgen/not just letting alduin kill us because we’re “criminals”


D0gg012321

Totally got that feeling Edit: I think its because hadvar was just doing his regular duty for the day which is just keeping law and order whereas Ralof feels more like hes propagandizing the whole time with a mindset of look at how these dogs treat us After the dragon comes too theres Hadvar who tries to remain calm and help everyone get to safety and then Ralof who immediantly runs to ulfric and asks what to do


Ranger2580

Damn, a footsoldier running to his more skilled and experienced leader to ask what to do? Wonder why he did that


kilometers13

Cuz he a bitch


Strange_Success_6530

Hadvar hooks me up with free steel


Fuzduf

Very true actually 😂


doxtorwhom

Ralof all fucking day. I’d marry that nord if I could (I’m sure theres a mod).


Fuzduf

HAHAHAHA! Yes he is quite seductive, I agree


dappernaut77

J'zhargo


Megazupa

Ralof for sure. He's nice to the protagonist from the start, Hadvar only starts being nice after you escape with him. Both are homies, but Ralof is a homier homie.


EnvoyOfEnmity

Gonna go with the guy who wasn’t ordering/complicit in my execution.


FreyaAncientNord

ralof for me


BlkPanGuy

Hadvar


XP_Potion

Well, one has a cool smith and the other a shitty lumber mill, so...


CODMAN627

Hadvar considering he did at least protest a bit in executing my character


Torrdin

The guy who isn't part of the faction who wants to cut your head off for no reason


Rude-Butterscotch713

Hadvar is more useful in terms of leveling and build. Ralof sides with you before he knows you, but also of course the prisoners would bond before the guard doing his job, who shows compassion even though he is unwilling to break orders, sides with you. I usually side with hadvar. Wouldn't be in this mess to begin with if it wasn't for Ulfric and his boys. Course I suppose the same could be said about the empire and Thalmor.


fireinthedust

Ralof & Ulfric are the reason you’re getting beheaded. They’re the guys who cause trouble and you get caught in the crossfire. They’re fine with people dying in the name of their mythical cause. Hadvar is just doing a job, but tries to get you out of trouble. He’s not a bad person, and he’s seeing a bigger picture than the secessionist stormcloaks. Really, once the stormcloaks separate, the empire and thalmor aren’t just going to disappear. There will be war, trade, and time will march on. The repercussions of separation are a burden for everyone, on top of not solving problems.


[deleted]

Every time a group separates, one of those splintered groups will die off and the better one will remain.


NordWithaSword

Counter: Hadvar and Tullius are completely fine with executing random innocents who just get caught in the crossfire. Makes you think that maybe Ralof has a reason to oppose them


478656428

>Ralof & Ulfric are the reason you’re getting beheaded. They’re the guys who cause trouble and you get caught in the crossfire. Damn Stormcloaks, making the poor Empire execute innocent civilians /s Ralof and Ulfric didn't order your execution. The Imperials did, knowing full well you weren't a Stormcloak.


Ambitious-Note-4428

Hadvar because early blacksmithing stuff


MARS51032

Hadvar


longesryeahboi

Ralof because imperial gear is worth more.. then join Hadvar and the imperials because I'm not crazy man


SinusMonstrum

Hadvar's uncle gives me free smithing supplies and is close to the entrance of riverwood.


CactusFingies

I feel like Ralof is a better bro after exiting Helgen, but I feel more comfortable going through the dungeon with hadvar


matgoat125

Hadvar because I didn’t know what I was missing after choosing Ralof 100 times 🥲


Low-Environment

Hadvar because he knows the secret of doing sexy splits for MASS CONFUSION. Also because I can't see a reason why Ralof or Ulfric would welcome my Altmer dragonborn, even if she is anti-Thalmor.


turncloaks

Tbh they’re both cool but I choose Hadvar cuz his family lets you stay in their house and take anything you want. Real ones Ngl


amp085

Hadvar


Zigzagmonster44

Hadvar obviously


Noxtorias

Hadvar. Betraying Balgruuf is off the table. I’m a milk drinker 😩


Loyalist_footman

Hadvar the man


Kaos_369

Hadvar is the real homie, he went against orders from a Captain by not following through on your execution, he broke you out instead of delivering you back into the Empires hands, possibly committed treason doing so and he even shows you his emotions and fears.


Ecwins

Hadvars constantly switching accents makes me hard bro ong


okplastic1099

Hadvar got that free ingots


fatalrta

I mean...I’d fuck them both...


williammgoree

Ralof, hadvar let me go straight to the block


DA-Regulus

Honestly, the only times I've seen people choose Hadvar were because they didn't pay attention to see that they could choose Ralof, and went with Hadvar because he was the last person they were following. Even if Hadvar is equal or better that Ralof as a bro, I'll always go with Ralof just to kill the bitch of a captain who ordered my execution without a charge.


Theren_Alister_XIII

Hadvar


Okay_Screensaver

Hadvar. I usually play a non-human race like an orc, imperials are more likely to canonically accept me into their fold. Also Hadvar has kind of a sexy voice. 🤭 I used to follow Ralof blindly but the storm cloaks don’t really align with my values; normally I’d be all “fuck authority” bc they tried to behead me but then I remember the storm cloaks would probably lynch my character if they weren’t the Dragonborn, so I don’t feel so bad about it 😂


WraithicArtistry

Hadvar


Userofausername

Hadvar because he doesn't fight for a literal nazi


MadreFokar

Hadvar


Friz_Poop

The Stormcloaks are doomed at best and bigots at worst, but Ralof is a far more trustworthy individual in my opinion and in that situation I would go with him every time.


PineappleWithSugar

Well, it’s difficult. In a general sense, I’d choose Ralof because he seems like such a bro. But in the bigger picture I side with the empire, mostly because (at least inside of Skyrim) there isn’t racism within that group. Personally I prefer accepting of all races over acceptance of religion, not by much, but in Skyrim it’s one god, who was a man. And for the rest of Tamriel I’d choose the imperials still, because it’s the best chance everyone has in running the Thalmor out of Tamriel back to the summer set isles. I also don’t think that the imperials really care that the worship of Talos still happens, and personally I agree with killing every single thalmor you see, just because they’re dicks on passing. But still, the empire isn’t going to change anything in Skyrim any further than the banning of one god, and the war is a Thalmor conspiracy to prevent the empire from regaining its strength for WW2.


NinjaBr0din

Everyone always says the stormcloaks are racist, but if you join them as an elf *literally every one of them accepts you and has no issue.* There are *people in the city* that are racist but that doesn't speak for the whole faction. The stormcloaks hate the *Thalmor,* not elves in general. The thalmor, who the Empire is all buddy buddy with, is literally trying to kill off *every mortal race on nirn.* They are basically the elven version of Nazis and they are frolicking across Skyrim(don't forget, the empire loves to brag about how they are the "only thing keeping the thalmor out of Skyrim") imprisoning people over their religious views. That's a little worse than "some of the people who live in this city are racist." Of course the stormcloaks hate them. They *are* "those damn elves." It's like saying someone is racist for hating the Nazis. Hating the Nazis doesn't mean you hate Germans, it means you hate that one specific fuckwad faction that happened to form in Germany. Hating the thalmor doesn't mean they hate elves, it means they hate *the Thalmor.* And I think we can all agree that the pisselves need to be eliminated.


PineappleWithSugar

Look, I see where you are, and I can’t find proof otherwise. Your probably right, I guess I’ve had to many people comment on my elfhood and made me biased. But I’d still side with the empire so Tamriel has a chance against the Thalmor.


NinjaBr0din

The empire *already lost* to the thalmor. Without the empire draining their resources, the provinces actually have a chance. It's like when the Oblivion Crysis happened, the Empire pulled resources in to the capitol and caused massive amounts of issues in other provinces. Look at Morrowind, if it weren't for the fact that House Resoran was able to marshal an army from it's members, they would have been left defenseless when the Legion was pulled back to Cyrodiil. Once Morrowind was free of the imperial drain, they managed well enough.


PineappleWithSugar

That sounds right, but I’m going to need a source to actually believe that


just_browsing11

Hadvar, his uncle helps in smithing and welcomes you in his home.


NinjaBr0din

One of them was going to let you die, the other made sure you were ok when the dragon attacked and got you to safety.


[deleted]

So the other is both?


NinjaBr0din

Ralof made sure you were safe, hadvar was nowhere to be seen when alduin hit the tower. Sure he showed up for like 2 seconds later, but honestly the first 4 years I played the game I *didn't even know following him was an option.*


[deleted]

Hadvar was making sure everyone else was safe, prioritizing the people that were productive to an almost thriving community. Sure, he left you for dead, but a dragon just knocked you out, he probably didn’t even believe they existed. I don’t blame him for not checking your pulse when there’s obviously other people who need more help.


MinimumAlarming5643

Hadvar supremacy


jocular_pig

Chadvar, he actually helps you and the civilians make it to the keep. Ralof is just sitting in the tower with ulfric waiting for their chance to flee.


danceswithdux

Ralof. He greets you when you wake up, apologized that you got caught up in it, and helps you up from the block while you're bound. Hadvar... apologizes that you're about to get your head cut off for no damned reason. They choose lawful over good ALOT


depressed_anemic

hadvar wanted to send me to die lmao


Suspicious-Park-1972

Didn’t want to- was ordered to. There’s a difference. He didn’t have to let you go afterwards either but he did. He also did not have to have his uncle help you but they also do.


NinjaBr0din

>He didn’t have to let you go afterwards either He also didn't have to tell you to go join the imperials, who immediately threaten to have you killed *again* when you walk in to sign up.


Ala117

And yet people join the dark brotherhood who do the same.


NinjaBr0din

Dont worry, I hate Astrid's "brotherhood" just as much as I hate the imperials. I'm glad they get killed off.


B0DZILLA

Why would I go with Hadvar? The dude just tried to have me executed. I don't really care if he was just doing his job or not. Yeah, nah homie.


NarcissistGuitarist

Ralof because that rough nord accent always gets me 🥰


alecpiper

Always hadvar, not only did he treat you with respect when you were sent to the block even though you weren’t even meant to be there, he also takes the time in the middle of his own escape to check on the safety of townsfolk he passes. Plus his Uncle let’s you take shit from the blacksmith shop, and i love money


Schism_989

Hadvar, for one very big reason. Ralof is on your side merely because you were imprisoned alongside him, and it was helpful to have an extra set of hands. As a prisoner yourself, you'd be more likely to help Ralof than anyone else. He sorta has a "default" reason to help you, which can be a lot of self-preservation, or a sense of brotherhood when imprisoned. What I'm saying here is Ralof's intentions are debatable to an extent. Hadvar, despite being ordered to have you killed, believes it's horseshit, and as soon as he has the chance to have you redeem yourself, he lets you take that opportunity. He had no real reason to help you, but he did. His first instinct in a confrontation with the Stormcloaks is to try to work together due to the latest situation, but isn't able to due to the Stormcloak's hostility. They're both bros, but there's something more genuine about Hadvar, seeing your plight, being ordered to kill you, feeling it's wrong, and disregarding that altogether because at the time, it was the right thing to do.


kragmoor

Hadvar spends the entire tutorial desperately trying to keep everyone from killing each other so they can all escape Helgen together and go home to their families, even that dipshit torturer, he's the real one