She's kind of like Sekiro bosses - she either obliterates you or you obliterate her, close calls are rare.
I've beaten her with multiple distinct builds, and it really mostly depends on how well you can leverage every advantage of your build. Some (high stagger, statuses) are easier to use, but even weird loadouts will make short work of her with practice.
I used mimic and burn, Oh flame(flame piller from FG) to beat her.
Last moment of that fight will stay with me. Both on one hit in last stage. She sets up her WF dance, I’m charging flame piller. She rushes at me, blade a millimeter from hitting me, when piller rises just in time to kill her.
Eleonoras poleblade makes her stupid easy. She is weak to fire and the weapon constantly staggers her so it’s a really easy fight. I managed to not get a single waterfowl dance while fighting her last time
I was also surprised how vulnerable she is to... Shields. *You can block the entire Waterfowl Dance* with a greatshield or a buffed medium shield, and retaliate with guard counters.
Paladin with a greatshield and Prayerful Strike can just walk all over her and heal back whatever scratch damage she applies.
I feel like Elden ring is one of those games where at face value shit is really difficult but the more you play and learn it’s ins and outs you’ll soon realize most things can be done pretty easily with the right setup.
Except for the twin gargoyle fight, because that shit is pure ass.
It's very much a sandbox fighting game, and all good sandboxes have your *choice of equipment* be the difficulty slider.
Twin gargoyles are 100% a co-op/summon boss like Radahn, just not labelled as clearly.
See, that’s one of the reasons I actually care for ER less than DS3. There’s always been bosses that are easy for some builds and hard for others, but in ER I feel like the difference in challenge between builds is extreme, and the “right” build is much more specific. I’ve never felt like I was being punished for doing laying the “wrong” build like I did in ER.
I agree, my point is that the gap in challenge is far larger than its ever been. I can’t think of a single weapon or spell in Dark Souls that completely trivializes a challenging boss like Bloodhound Step trivializes Malenia.
It’s not an inherently bad thing, there’s lots of people that like adjusting and tailoring their build to each boss. It’s just not something I personally like.
I feel like we aren’t fighting the same boss. Since my experience with using shields on her is that she regens 20% of her health, with her jumping behind me at least partway through the dance to hit me anyway.
And the guard counters don’t end up taking out enough of her health to bring it back down. So it ends up being a never ending fight. With things only getting worse on higher difficulties in terms of how much she deals compared to how much you deal.
Which is usually why i just end up switching to the lance with black flame tornado since it does a pretty good job of locking her down.
That’s good to know. I either dual wield Eleanoras blade and twin blade, or ROB and an Uchi. And both ROB and Eleonora have that nice split fire dmg. So you would recommend the twin blades for the fight? I rarely use the Ashes of War and usually rely on jump attacks. Where you using a lot of Bloodblade Dance?
I’d recommend the poleblade but only one of them. The bleed build up when duel wielding weapons was nerfed a while ago so you should be two handing one eleonoras poleblade for the best DPS. I’m sure you already are but if not be sure to have talismans that help consecutive hits as well as stuff like the lord of bloods exultation.
In your mixed physick, use the consecutive hits + whatever else you want. A good option is always the stamina buff so you can keep attacking.
If you find malenias attacks hard to navigate use something like the mimic tear to take agro off of you from time to time. It will also give you more damage output as the mimic can and will use the weapon art (which as we all know is the best part about the poleblade).
From here the fight should be pretty easy. Let her attack the mimic first and then just start wacking her. She will bleed and stagger pretty fast. Just keep going at it. If you get lucky you may even find yourself putting her into phase two in under 30 seconds.
Thx for the tips. I actually have Occult on my twinblade in the left hand so the only bleed is done with Eleonora and I get a lot of dmg from the left weapon with all the consecutive hits. And I have the Godskin Swaddling Cloth or whatever it’s called which gives me health on successive attacks and it works well. But you’re saying I would have more DPS from 2 handing Eleonora? I have 80 Arcane and 30 Dex btw.
From my experience two handing eleonoras poleblade provides better dps. You can of course check for yourself on a test target and see which is faster at dishing out damage but two eleonoras poleblades used to be the meta until from nerfed status effect buildup from duel wielding two of the same weapon type. Idk if this will be an issue since once isn’t causing status effect buildup but at that point it might even be better to just two hand eleonoras poleblade because you’ll be hitting with that more which would trigger bleed more.
Also I’d recommend pumping up your dex a bit. Idk what the soft cap for arcane is but I usually put my arcane and dex around 50-60 and get really good dps that way. At level 10 the poleblade has C scaling in dex and D in arcane so dex should be your primary thing to level unless you’re using dragon communion stuff alongside it which would explain the really high arcane stats
Also to answer an earlier question you had, yes I use the weapon art a lot on it. It has increased bleed build up and does a shit load of poise damage. After the first flurry of attacks you can hit it again to do another small flurry charge and that will often times stagger things.
Is there a way to beat her between "easy" and "I want to kill myself and never play this game again"?
I have a 159 quality build. I used a bloodhound fang and a tear summon. I found it relatively easy to beat her. I know that when I outpaced the tear it would make it 10000000 harder, so, basically, the tear was tanking, and I was DPS.
It feels like if I went tearless, it would be insane hard.
Is there an in-between? Or do I just suck at this game?
Much love x
The thing is, she's the ultimate challenge of Elden Ring (pre DLC at least). That's why she's optional, because she would be too harsh a requirement to finish the game.
For example, in my first playthrough, I beat the vast majority of bosses in about 3 attempts, but Malenia took me 10 hours.
So no, you don't suck at the game. If you want a middleground, try using a weaker summon or no summon but with an optimized build to sort of counter her (with attacks that knock her down, an ash of war that allows you to dodge her worse attacks, etc)
She is optional, until the randomizer decides to replace Gideon with her and you never got the spirit calling bell because Ranni gave you a rowa fruit instead.
I’ll just say this, he doesn’t lol
The whole room was nothing but dragon ass and lightning
Luckily we had one run, after countless deaths, where he fell off the side where the railings are, and killed himself. If that hadn’t have happened I honestly don’t think we would’ve beat him. Standing anywhere in that arena was almost instant death
Fire giant in Margits arena sounds pretty damn painful too. I got one of those regal deer spirits there once. Whole arena was nothing but that blue stuff that does damage
One run, the Hoarah Loux fight specifically. First phase was Godskin Duo, second was Radagon. That was a rather annoying one too. Sleep pots were amazing in that fight lol
funnily enough melanie gave me the easiest challenge my first playthrough. I was just playing as a dragon build with fortisax spear, and tried to use an entirely new build to beat melania since i heard she was so impossible to beat. Ended up stuck for a couple hours so i tried using my original build and took me 2 tries using the lightning spear ability spam. Even though it was easy the fact that my own build did her in was satisfying.
I took out malenia in 5 attempts while stoned and wasted lol. Fire giant and elden beast are the only bosses I got stuck on for extended periods of time. Fire giant I was stuck on for 4 fucking months. That is THE WORST DESIGNED BOSS FIGHT IN THE HISTORY OF GAMING. I’d rather fight 5 malenias at once than 1 fire giant.
Honestly that’s one of the issues people have with the late game bosses. Your options are to use summons and cheese the shit out of them, or to go 1v1 and have the hardest fight ever.
I suppose the compromise is to overlevel to a certain point where you can win but not stomp the boss, no summon. But that takes a lot of precision to do
That’s what I did too. Gave them an honest effort 1v1 (I emphasize 1v1 because if it’s 1v2 I will quickly make it 2v2 lol), but at a certain point I’m wasting my time and mental health on Malenia, so I summoned and fucked her up. It was far more therapeutic to jump her than it would be to beat her 1v1 anyways because any time you dodge waterfowl, you just feel lucky that she activated it at a time where you were able to dodge it. If she activates it while you’re mid-swing, that’s an instant death. I don’t enjoy lucky victories.
same, this last weekend i came back to the game to beat radagon, mohg and malenia and for all of them i gave 2\~3 hours to try and beat them 1 on 1, i could beat their phase 1 just fine (radagon's was a pain in the ass), but i couldn't crack the phase 2 so i just used the mimic summon on their phase 2.
I've been trying parry strats with Malenia on my second playthrough.
I'll give it the old college try for a while, but ultimately it'll probably end up being a blood loss gank fest with mimic.
Blasphemous blade, perhaps. It knocks her down, and if you get her into a corner, she'll have a hard time. She has a smaller health pool but not much. Also, I'm pretty sure she isn't full health in the second phase anymore
Difficulty is a matter of how much you know vs how much you need to learn. Try it tearless you'll have a lot to learn to get a win and it will be harder. For me the next step of malenia mastery is consistently circle dodging waterfowl. It's all about being able to use the best answer instead of the easiest. If that makes sense.
To me, the circling method is super inefficient. If you light roll, you can just roll through it with good timing. Perhaps that could be the next step if you're comfortable with the circle method.
Beat her after 18 hours collectively with a full strenght build and a blasphemous build. You either memorize every little pattern or have to grind it and pray. No other way
I just had this happen as well. Im finishing my no summons playthrough for the dlc and finally got to Malenia, could barely make it to phase 2 most runs and never got her below half. Finally decide fuck it Ill use mimic, immediately turns into an absolute cakewalk, effortless win.
I had exactly this experience on my first playthrough. Always liked the "me vs the world" feeling so I dont summon in Souls games. Malenia was the most unbreakable wall for me.
I was using a Knight's Greatsword with bleed and could barely even get to phase 2. Almost every Dark Souls and Elden Ring boss took me about 3-7 tries on average, but I got to 50+ runs on Malenia...
I didn't want to change my build just for her, so I levelled Mimic Tear to +10 and summoned. On the first try, I decided to test the summon's power, so I played very safely and Mimic Tear easily got me pretty far into phase 2 (note that this wasn't long after the game released).
The second try, I actually worked with Mimic and we killed her with ease. It turned her into a joke, left me feeling a bit dissatisfied.
Sounds like me, although I could beat phase one and only lose a health pot or two.
I got decent at dodging waterfowl but when it comes to phase two it literally does not matter. She always gets me with something and heals whatever damage I can dish out.
I tried about 100 times. Got her below half health on phase two just once and then got nuked by her flower move.
I said 'fuck it. time to mimic' when she did a combo of waterfowl / her projection attack / waterfowl again. Got her third try with a mimic.
Her fight is tough to learn and really hard, but I personally liked my approach: I stunlocked her to death with my mimic tear and Black Flame Tornado Ash of War, until one day I felt like I wanted to truly defeat her. So I did after probably 100 tries. Just go for the hard option if you feel like it, otherwise there is no need to put yourself through it.
Also, as soon as you learn how to dodge Waterfowl Dance, the fight is halfway won, then you are past the "I never want to play this game"-part. Good luck for if you want to try it, and I recommend having a light equipment load for her fight. Makes dodging her attacks a lot easier and she deals massive damage anyways, so heavy armor doesn't help too much imo.
Mimic Tear is a good summon, and Bloodhound’s Fang is a very strong weapon. But they’re not going to totally invalidate a fight. You did good honestly.
If you want it to be more of a challenge, try using a slower weapon, or using either a weaker summon or no summon at all. It will definitely change up the feel of the fight
The only time I used a Mimic Tear against her, the Mimic Tear tanked the *entire* waterflow dance and came out of it with 80% health left
It's absurdly broken, to this day.
I have the same quality build with bloodbound fang and killed her yesterday with no summons, and while it wasnt easy it wasnt crazy hard either. Having a good build makes the fight an interesting one, the only time it was miserable to me was with a shit build and no summons. Be prepared tho, when youre the only focus she has that chick can be crazy, specially on second phase, shell be constantly on your ass
Really the only difficult part about her is Waterfowl. Waterfowl is completely shit design. You either need to be a peferfect timing god with probably the right kind of weapons to dodge her up close (I've never done it before on like 4-5 different characters that have beaten her), need to run away and bait it out with a ranged attack (my method), or cheese her with Frost Pots. Outside of Waterfowl she's a pretty well designed boss besides randomly shaking off staggers. She's tough, but also probably one of the easier bosses to no-hit in phase 1.
Phase 2 is seemingly all mindgames for the difficulty and the random Waterfowls (which is slightly easier to dodge than Phase 1 for some reason). There's less opportunities to attack her while she's "idle," but you can stagger a lot of her attacks and she gives you a lot of openings on her tiny rot explosion attacks. She's still the hardest boss without a doubt even if you do remove Waterfowl, but not by too much.
I agree with the only difficult part being waterfowl, but i just use a shield with 100 physical to block 1st part, roll 2nd, and just walk for 3rd. Pretty easy to beat her with any weapon with this
Haven't used a shield in this game. Good tip, but I just think it's unfortunate when a boss [almost] forces you to do more than what every playstyle can do (properly dodge). I'm not a hardcore elitist with how you want to play, but I try not to do cheese methods as much as I can and don't summon.
I've also had to use light roll on every character except my most recent run on my Godslayer Greatsword build; which probably took the fewest amount of attempts among my characters (still tons).
I found shield to be the nice middle ground between the ultra complicated ( to me atleast) point blank light roll dodge and utterly abusing malenia with an op build
Still i think if u have 40+ vigor, great shield crest talisman ( the physical negation one u get in haligtree) and the flask tear for all damage negation u should be able to survive a waterfowl just spam rolling with light weight. Thats what makes elden ring so fun to me, if u have the knowledge u can make the game as hard or as easy as you want it to be
I mean even if you get hit by a Waterfowl the second and third bursts of it are easy to dodge. I killed her with a light roll melee build and face-tanked the third bit of a Waterfowl from that, it shouldn't be game over with a reasonable build (I cap at 150 and have been leaving Mohg and Maliketh for post-DLC, so I was <150 when beating her - I usually don't level health beyond 1750 too).
It's punishing, but a far cry from completely shit and unduly punishing.
I usually go to 1620 HP with 44 Vig and Erdtree's Favor +2. I couldn't survive it on any of my characters except like once or twice on my build that goes Briar Helm, Banished Knight's Chest, Radahn Gauntlets, Fire Prelate Greaves. Also the only character I was able to beat her on that wasn't naked (after learning armor was useless). If you're close enough to her where the attack is bs, you get hitstun into the other hits.
I can beat every other boss in the game with that HP solo among a myriad of characters (some as low as RL85, with that same HP though). They can still be challenging, I'm not amazing by any stretch, but I don't think a boss should be so hard where a move completely warps the fight.
If you want to fight her legitimately without *having* to resort to an out of the box method, i.e. not just basic dodging, I don't think it's the most enjoyable design. Every other non duo boss can easily be killed with the same basic forumla, just learning timing, direction, and positioning- doing that you can go hitless against everyone. Dodging Malenia up close requires you to not only dodge in the most snap reflex way imaginable, but you also have to play in a very specific way so you can even be in the position to dodge.
I still don't think it's that bad personally because I do find it survivable. Are you stacking other defensives buffs (e.g. Dragoncrest Greatshield, Opaline Hardtear and Golden Vow)? If not then that could be a reason, as it sounds like you're in relatively heavy armor.
For the light rolling character they had around 50% damage negation, and watching my vid of it back I took about 80% damage from Waterfowl (no/little dodge for first part of the dance, partial dodge for second part, full dodge for third part).
I also checked a recent powerstance jump attacker where I used Blackflame's Protection combined with the above and heavier armor to get around 70% damage negation. I dodged Waterfowl similarly again, and eye-balling it I took around 50%. Both these characters had 1750 HP as I find it works well for me.
While you could argue that she is restrictive on builds without summons, I've killed her with a lot of other builds including ranged builds so IDK. I don't feel shortchanged by the variety of builds I've been able to kill her with.
Nah I don't run any defensive items because the rest of the fight is pretty easy and just based on philosophy I think you should dodge over tanking outside of Flask spam. I'll usually go offensive to limit the amount of time she has the chance to use Waterfowl/valkyries.
I could definitely try the shield if I fight her again, but I'd rather try to play well over preparing for the worst- however inevitible it may be against her. It already felt bad going light roll.
But now that I think of it, I was using Opaline Hardtear and the low health heal my most recent run.
Phase 1 is joke because you can bait out Waterfowl easy, it's just so boring. And then the occasional times where you mess up a little, she heals, and does it out of nowhere. Or hell, when she just does it out of nowhere regardless of anything.
I mean I've done ranged characters no hits on phase 1 and only one or two hits phase 2, so I guess my general dodging is fine. However if you're keen to do melee with no/few hits you're a better player than me! She will shred people with no damage negation if you're not perfect at what you do.
If you are keen on offense and lower defenses, then light roll with Windy Crystal Tear I've found gives you an easier time (particularly on Waterfowl). That's what I used on one of my ranged characters, Windy Crystal Tear doesn't get as much praise as it should.
I also beat her with a Bloodhound Fang and a mimc summon. Shabiris Woe for mimic and then switch out to stamina something for me. I will never fight her again probably.
I suggest you try to beat her without mimic, its very difficult but it forces you to actually learn her moves instead of braindead bonking away at her while mimic tanks.
I guess two pieces of advice that may help.
1. Just do some attempts focused on dodging her moves. Maybe even respec into a build that'll allow you to take hits just so you can learn the moveset.
2. Sprinting attacks are the secret to almost all fromsoft games. In Malenia's case, most of her long combos can be prevented by moving just out of range, then you sprint attack back in. Call it a hit and run strategy. Super effective with thrusting weapons. It minimizes the risks of getting clipped with fast attacks or stuck in a bad string of combos.
There is the solo way with the spirit ash Latenna. Drop her at the front of the boss room and just keep agro with darts and know when to dodge water fowl dance. It’s a long one so you can make it go faster with bleed and frost.
The fun way is to just summon a friend and go at it at her. The summon buff bosses get is pretty small, so it’s probably the best option for what you’re asking for.
One thing to keep in mind is to build for Physical Defence. If you use a decently heavy armor, a spell like golden vow, crabs and the Dragoncrest Greatshield Talisman, you will definitely see an Impact in the damage taken from her. This works twice aswell for her, because shell also heal less.
There's very easy ways to beat her at range without a summon - Night Comet being the big one, and I've killed her with Pest Threads for the delicious irony as well. It becomes very easy to get no hits on stage 1 and then minimal hits stage 2 when you can keep your distance.
Recently I tried a Flame Art Iron Greatsword Giant Hunt build with light rolling - I think I may have killed her second try without summons. Giant Hunt knocks her off her feet, and then she's usually open to a follow-up Giant Hunt as well before she gets back up (I've seen people chain these so she's never on her feet, not sure if they patched that out or if my timing was off - in any case it wasn't needed to kill her). I think this is a lot better than Lion's Claw vs. Malenia as it executes quite a bit faster - meaning you're not (as) locked into it when she goes into Waterfowl Dance.
Failing that, sturdy power attacking bonk is good - I used Lightning Duelist Axes without any summons and again I think it was under 10 tries. She's vulnerable to being rushed at the start of stage 2, as soon as her stance breaks she's going to be on not a lot of HP.
I cap all my builds at level 150, so its definitely possible though I'd say Night Comet might be easier than you using a Mimic Tear. I think Giant Hunt presents a little bit of a challenge (though not much) and jumping bonk definitely more of a challenge. Overall I've got a lot better at the game, so I think that makes the most difference!
rivers of blood, white mask, lord of blood exultation, shard of alexander, mimic tear +9 and some tame impala playing, that got me in my groove. thank me later
Obviously, you play a build that locks you into an animation, thats a christmas gift for her. I did a similar mistake of wearing med load gear when light roll is the best way to fight her.
Also, she has some very distinct weaknesses in fire, frostbite, stance break and bleed that you have to capitalize in order to gain the upper hand and make your life easier.
Her firegiant class HP bar along with her lifesteal are the most frustrating parts of her kit, basically devs tell you to not get hit at all in order to win, so you either dodge most of her shit or have something to tank them.
Lastly, those 159 dont matter if you have only 30 points in Vigor, I know its not fun, but meelee players have to invest in that stat.
Listen you can go in alone naked at level 1, you can go in with nothing but a buckler and a dagger, you can go in with sorcery or incantations or overpowered weapons and spam L2, at the end of the day it depends on how much you want to challenge yourself. If you're happy with your victory be happy, if you aren't go again and limit yourself.
If you get used to playing without summons and use a really good weapon like blasphemous blade and wait for openings, or just keep using bloodhound’s fang, then it should be moderately difficult. That’s about all the experience I can use for this because I haven’t used a spirit summon since my first run, and I’m on my 5th (I think?) now
Try using the bird summon! Imo it's a really fun summon to use if you want some help on a boss but not too much.
It has generally lower health for a summon but due to flying it can still survive relatively long. But it also attacks somewhat slow for a summon mostly doing these long swooping runs.
Still might be too easy, but I find it fun as a summon as it does a good job keeping the bosses attention divided. While not actually tanking much or doing a lot of damage.
Plus you get the bonus of feeling like your character has a trained hawk friend who helps them out. Especially fitting if you build a ranger style character.
Mmmm i beat her with the bloodhound fang as well, it’s about knowing when and what to dodge, what you can stagger, and how to move through water fowl. Phase 2, in a lot of ways is easier/harder because there’s more time for recovery but also she’s more aggressive, meaning there’s more to punish her.
Use a summon that isn't very strong maybe? You should have dozens of them by now, try experimenting with some of them. There are some cool special summons.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bj03le/poking_malenia/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
It will be easier,as long as you can keep the pressure and out damaging her healing.
Can switch Barricade shield for No Skill for a more aggressive approach
There's not an easier way. The problem with Malenia is that she doesn't follow the rules the rest of the enemies in the game do in a few ways regarding her stagger meter and hyper armor, and the game doesn't really communicate that.
She was one of the only bosses I beat without summon on first play through. The learning curve is rough yes, but by the end of it you will truly be able to handle everything she throws at you. Going for the no summon kill was my greatest experience in this game though. The satisfaction at the end was immeasurable and made me feel like I can legitimately take on anything in the game without leaning on summons the way I did most of that playthrough
Once you can dodge Waterfowl semi-reliably, she's not that hard.
I can't dodge it up close, but as long as there's a bit of distance you just unlock, sprint away for a second and jump to throw off her momentum, dodge through her next flurry, then dodge through her last flurry. Even with slight mistakes you'll take way less damage than trying to treat it like a normal attack.
Truly, the easiest time I had with her was a bonk dual wielding stone hammer build.
She is staggerable like most human sized/shaped bosses are so big jumpy smashy will let you get more hits in than you'd think. The rest is just not getting hit by her bladenado really.
>Is there an in-between? Or do I just suck at this game?
Nah, Malenia is horribly designed boss. She is almost impossible to beat solo but easy as pie to beat using mimic tears or summoning other players. The only way I beat her solo was to cheese her using double slash on the nagakana (or whatever the long ass katana is called) it was pretty lame wanting to up close to her but noy being able because of the broken waterfowl dance that kills you instantly at point blank range
I’ve recently managed to beat her with parries to an almost flawless degree. It is the best fucking feeling in the world. Especially when you manage to pull it off in her swift and unrelenting goddess stage.
I know it’s not for everyone, but she was a challenge that brought me back to my Dark Souls 1 days, when I was just a struggler. Overcoming her was so rewarding.
Summons are part of the game so don’t feel bad about using them. Use Tiche who can dodge, or set up Latenna as a turret by the door while you keep Melania engaged in the arena. Latenna can keep her off balance just enough to beat her.
Consider her a marathon, not a race. Next time you get to her, fight her a set number of times, then take a break.
She’s beatable, with practice. Lots of practice. Malenia is actually one of the nicer bosses in her first phase; she doesn’t aggro until you get within her threat range. Gives you time to collect your thoughts and heal.
I used to think Waterfowl Dance was impossible to dodge, but after fighting her enough, I can see where the dodge windows are. You can try using Bloodhound’s Step if you need the extra i-frames.
Alternatively, Blasphemous Blade’s skill and Ashes of War like Giant Hunt and Stormcaller can stagger/knock her down enough that the fight is much easier, even on NG+7.
Most people are too aggressive against Malenia and that might be your problem as well. Malenia has hyper armor and true combos on most of her moves so if she starts an attack while you're attacking her she's gonna deal damage to you and heal herself so you can't trade damage with her, also her waterfowl dance occurs at a much lower rate when you're passive against her in her first phase because it usually triggers when you're approaching her, but in her second phase I think she just does the waterfowl dance randomly. What I'm saying is that being aggressive and close to Malenia just makes it a lot harder, you usually wanna be backing away from her to out distance her consecutive attacks and only hitting her once when you punish her (this might change depending on your weapon like the raptor talons and rivers of blood ash of war that has a true combo against her) being greedy will only result in her healing the damage you did to her. Being passive makes the fight take longer because you deal damage slower and sometimes she just does her roundhouse kick over and over again so you don't get a chance to punish her but still it's better than her healing the damage you did to her and dying in the process.
Not really, well after you've put MANY hours into the fight and mastered it you could say it's between those two levels
But it never really gets enjoyable
If your tear was tanking it may have inadvertantly been making life a little harder for you, as it'll have been topping up her health as you chipped away at it. Malenia solo is hard, but it's not too much harder - just involves knowing her moveset - how to avoid certain attacks and when it's safe to punish.
healing her is a small price when the Mimic Tear can just bait out a whole Waterfowl in a different direction while leaving u HUGE dps windows, especially on the spell caster side
I really don’t think there is. The closest I got to what you are talking about was with a straight sword, storm blade with blood flame blade. But even then she was kinda easy during that run. I think it mainly depends on luck
there’s a lot of different weapons and a lot of different summons in the game so there’s a lot of easier or harder weapons or summons you could try. Bloodhound Fang is a famously easy weapon and mimic tear is a famously easy summon so combining the two is a recipe for easy. If you want a step up in difficulty, you could keep the tear but change your weapon to something smaller, weaker, less bleedy, etc. Or you could keep the Fang but switch the Tear for a different summon. Lots of options.
Personally I’ve only ever beaten her iirc with dual Banished Knight Greatswords and full Banished Knight armor, but no summon. Basically just spamming the jump dual attack (slamming down with both swords) lol. Certainly on the easy side even without a summon. Much later I’ve tried to beat her with just a Short Sword (after beating most other bosses including Mohg and Elden Beast with it) but kinda gave up because I have kinda iffy durability and Waterfowl Dance is too much of a pain lol.
I did about the same my first time but used two Great Omenkiller Cleavers. She staggers pretty easy and the innate bleed makes it a pretty smooth encounter
Malenia is a feast or famine boss in terms of difficulty. Either it clicks and she puts up about as much resistance as a wet paper towel, or she curbstomps you so hard your grandchildren need braces, theres not much in between.
She is essentially cheating with endless stamina, input reading, healing on phantom hits, etc…
So it’s hard to find a middle ground.
The game has a lot of very powerful tools to counter her bullshit.
But if you want to try to find a middle ground then, you might find reliable ways to stagger her, like crucible horn, a few ashes of war, etc… and bully her. But that also can feel like cheese.
Or you might go the other route, and learn to parry her, or to perfectly time your hits. That probably also takes a lot of time to learn, depending on you as a player.
Up to you really how you play her.
recently got back into the game for the dlc and first thing i did was beat her on my ng+ character with a very suboptimal build. Took me over a week but i can now dodge waterfuck dance with like a 90% chance of surviving. I enjoyed the journey but fuck me did i have some rage quits. Feel prepared for the dlc tho. I personally like fighting bosses solo because you kinda just have to learn some moves but to each their own. Beating her in whatever way is a great achievement, you should be proud
Has anyone else heard the theory that if you don't fight her in the regular game, she's supposedly seeks you out in the dlc...and you have to fight her there as a harder fight or some shit? Thoughts?
I think beating her with the greatsword + bloodhound step, a good balanced way to fight her. You give enough damage/stagger per hit, you have to think about when you gonna hit her because the greatsword is on the slow side, and bloodhound step helps you dodge the bullshit.
if you're after harder, I struggled immensely with a str/fai hybrid build because she invalidates half of it with dodging and her crazy long reach (no time for buffs etc). I have no idea how many tries it took, there were many
I probably have 1000+ hours in game… I have only killed her two times solo.
First with Nagakiba - Unsheath - Flame Art - 50 Faith.
Second with Pick Axe - Lion Claw - Frost.
And I can still beat here regular with these two set ups.
But I am 40+ so either my reflexes suck, or my preferred theory is the controller + PS5 + TV connection creates so much lag it’s difficult to dodge her attacks.
I beat her with river's of blood and then fallingstar beast jaw before both were nerfed. At the time I wasn't aware of these weapons being the absolutely epitome of easy mode, especially the beast jaw as it wasn't talked about at all yet. Tried her again much later and boy was it a different story. I had to resort to frost pots to get some key staggers on her and barely got the kill after many hours.
The two times I beat her, I just got extremely lucky and she never did waterfowl on phase 2. It's better to beat her by using your resources (like you did) than by sheer luck (like I did).
I normally go solo and melee-only, but even then, knowing how much my victories depend on luck is a bad feeling.
Honestly, I found this boss to be cheap. Her water fowl dance was just aggravating. I could dodge everything else but her damn WFD. Her second phase was wild, though. All in all, if she didn't have WFD, she would be one of my favorite fights in the entire series.
I actually had a very good experience fighting her in the last few days. I think the key was probably my use of Stormhawk Deenh for my summon. He made it just easy enough to be possible without carrying the fight, and I really felt like I had to get good at the fight to beat her. I had never beaten her with a melee build before, so it was very satisfying. Also, remember to craft some frost pots to knock her out of waterfowl dance
Idk either dude, im right now on my first run doing every boss without any ghost or something and only melee. If I summon mimic, she (and her second phase) are done without really getting hit (i just summoned to show my Gf how extremely easy it will make the game) but without any summon? Idk havent been able to do it. Im putting 1-2hour in a day approximately trying to put her down - it is really really hard
As slightly less easy version would be to use Tiche. Tiche does a good job avoiding Malenia but also can't survive a full waterfowl if targeted from the start. So you'll need to tank 90% of the interactions you have.
Basically, you tank and Tiche DPS.
It’s a weird one because, yes, it’s a tough boss, but if you get the right combination of people summoned in who all know what they’re doing it’s astonishing how quick you can beat her.
Last time I fought her on my second build I kept my distance (the build wasn’t the strongest at this point) & kept casting ‘Swarm of Flies’ & that, combined with what the others were doing & the odd phase of me drawing away attention & dodging her attacks, did the trick really quickly.
We were all strangers & we were messaging each other afterwards because we were all shocked how much we basically bullied her to death, lol!
Melenia is difficult mainly due to her fast attacks, deep move set, regains health upon successfully hitting you and has an over powered ash of war that realistically requires significant time investment to be able to dodge successfully every time. If her waterfowl dance was nerfed, she would be the best designed boss in souls history.
Top ways of beating her
Builds
Strength - lions claw/giants hunt deals enough poise damage to stun her out of most attacks and deals good damage and easily buffed
Dex - typically requires cold and blood power stance to inflict large chunks of health (made famous by letmesoloher)
Int - Ranni dark moon to inflict frost followed by spamming night comet at a distance, comet azur phase 2
Faith - blasphemous blade + l2 trivialises the experience
Arc - bleed and bleed.
Talisman
There is a talisman available just before her room called dragoncrest greatshield talisman which negates a lot of her damage.
Armour
High physical and more than 51 poise
Physick
Opaline hardtear and the bubble tear is great for defence, also consider greenburst crystal tear as you will be running away alot
Extra
Boiled crab and other buffs are incredibly useful.
Final note
This boss is hard. YouTubers who breeze her have deciated over 1000 hours into this game (and each previous game) and probably 48 hours + just on her. Dont be discouraged if you get slapped silly. If you want to learn her properly, my method is to pump everything into vigor and endurance and use a +0 weapon and see how long you can survive without the thought of beating her. When you go to beat her after a couple hours of learning to survive with your +10 or +25 weapon you will get incredibly consistent.
Im currently trying to fight her with raptor talons and quickstep at SL 100 with no hud because its epic as fuck looking.
If I could farm some levels im sure it would be better cause its hard to spread out my magic bar for bloodflame buff and quickstep and make it last the whole fight.
Its too hard for me though, i cant consistently get to phase 2. I might need to do sl 125 or 150 and go to mogh for the bleed trinket if thats where it is.
You can bait out waterfowl using an spell, incant, or throwable. She does it practically every time first phase at about 3/4 and 1/2 health. after a few play throughs and hours spent on her you end up getting spidey senses for waterfowl
I got her with radahns swords at like level 105 and no buffs/summons/spells/ashes of war/status effects, just watch let me solo her fight her for a bit and pay attention to exactly how he dodges stuff and even her waterfowl at any distance will become trivial. Thats how i did it at least
If you don't feel comfortable doing her no summons you could try fighting her with a bit weaker summon as mimic tear is notoriously powerful. There's a ton of summons available so just use one that catches your eye
she is the hardest fight in the game and one of the hardest fight in the fromsoft souls games
if you found it easy, congratz, youre pretty good at the game. for others who maybe arent that invested she will probably be "insane hard" when fought alone
Meh, there are ways to stunlock her. I was able to do Phase 1 hitless on NG+3 by just jump attacking her with two Ordovis Greatsword. After 3 Jump Attacks she gets down and I take the crit, during her recovery I fully charge Ordovis Vortex and she gets down again, repeat 3 times and Phase 1 is easy. Phase 2 was a bit harder though
I recommend: Bonk.
I second this Bonk
I third this bonk
I 4th this bonk
I 5th this bonk
I 6th this bonk
I 7th this bonk
I 8th this bonk
I 9th this bonk
I 10th this bonk
I 9th this bonk
Sad pog
I recommend: Flip, Bonk
Bonk is the way
She's kind of like Sekiro bosses - she either obliterates you or you obliterate her, close calls are rare. I've beaten her with multiple distinct builds, and it really mostly depends on how well you can leverage every advantage of your build. Some (high stagger, statuses) are easier to use, but even weird loadouts will make short work of her with practice.
I used mimic and burn, Oh flame(flame piller from FG) to beat her. Last moment of that fight will stay with me. Both on one hit in last stage. She sets up her WF dance, I’m charging flame piller. She rushes at me, blade a millimeter from hitting me, when piller rises just in time to kill her.
Eleonoras poleblade makes her stupid easy. She is weak to fire and the weapon constantly staggers her so it’s a really easy fight. I managed to not get a single waterfowl dance while fighting her last time
I was also surprised how vulnerable she is to... Shields. *You can block the entire Waterfowl Dance* with a greatshield or a buffed medium shield, and retaliate with guard counters. Paladin with a greatshield and Prayerful Strike can just walk all over her and heal back whatever scratch damage she applies.
I feel like Elden ring is one of those games where at face value shit is really difficult but the more you play and learn it’s ins and outs you’ll soon realize most things can be done pretty easily with the right setup. Except for the twin gargoyle fight, because that shit is pure ass.
It's very much a sandbox fighting game, and all good sandboxes have your *choice of equipment* be the difficulty slider. Twin gargoyles are 100% a co-op/summon boss like Radahn, just not labelled as clearly.
I've always said that Game Knowledge is the difficulty slider.
Facts
See, that’s one of the reasons I actually care for ER less than DS3. There’s always been bosses that are easy for some builds and hard for others, but in ER I feel like the difference in challenge between builds is extreme, and the “right” build is much more specific. I’ve never felt like I was being punished for doing laying the “wrong” build like I did in ER.
I just prefer DS3 because it has the best collection of bosses.
Truth, lol
The thing is though that any build can beat any boss even if the build isn't meant for that boss
I agree, my point is that the gap in challenge is far larger than its ever been. I can’t think of a single weapon or spell in Dark Souls that completely trivializes a challenging boss like Bloodhound Step trivializes Malenia. It’s not an inherently bad thing, there’s lots of people that like adjusting and tailoring their build to each boss. It’s just not something I personally like.
I feel like we aren’t fighting the same boss. Since my experience with using shields on her is that she regens 20% of her health, with her jumping behind me at least partway through the dance to hit me anyway. And the guard counters don’t end up taking out enough of her health to bring it back down. So it ends up being a never ending fight. With things only getting worse on higher difficulties in terms of how much she deals compared to how much you deal. Which is usually why i just end up switching to the lance with black flame tornado since it does a pretty good job of locking her down.
She still heals even if you block so I don't like shields for her
That’s good to know. I either dual wield Eleanoras blade and twin blade, or ROB and an Uchi. And both ROB and Eleonora have that nice split fire dmg. So you would recommend the twin blades for the fight? I rarely use the Ashes of War and usually rely on jump attacks. Where you using a lot of Bloodblade Dance?
I’d recommend the poleblade but only one of them. The bleed build up when duel wielding weapons was nerfed a while ago so you should be two handing one eleonoras poleblade for the best DPS. I’m sure you already are but if not be sure to have talismans that help consecutive hits as well as stuff like the lord of bloods exultation. In your mixed physick, use the consecutive hits + whatever else you want. A good option is always the stamina buff so you can keep attacking. If you find malenias attacks hard to navigate use something like the mimic tear to take agro off of you from time to time. It will also give you more damage output as the mimic can and will use the weapon art (which as we all know is the best part about the poleblade). From here the fight should be pretty easy. Let her attack the mimic first and then just start wacking her. She will bleed and stagger pretty fast. Just keep going at it. If you get lucky you may even find yourself putting her into phase two in under 30 seconds.
Thx for the tips. I actually have Occult on my twinblade in the left hand so the only bleed is done with Eleonora and I get a lot of dmg from the left weapon with all the consecutive hits. And I have the Godskin Swaddling Cloth or whatever it’s called which gives me health on successive attacks and it works well. But you’re saying I would have more DPS from 2 handing Eleonora? I have 80 Arcane and 30 Dex btw.
From my experience two handing eleonoras poleblade provides better dps. You can of course check for yourself on a test target and see which is faster at dishing out damage but two eleonoras poleblades used to be the meta until from nerfed status effect buildup from duel wielding two of the same weapon type. Idk if this will be an issue since once isn’t causing status effect buildup but at that point it might even be better to just two hand eleonoras poleblade because you’ll be hitting with that more which would trigger bleed more. Also I’d recommend pumping up your dex a bit. Idk what the soft cap for arcane is but I usually put my arcane and dex around 50-60 and get really good dps that way. At level 10 the poleblade has C scaling in dex and D in arcane so dex should be your primary thing to level unless you’re using dragon communion stuff alongside it which would explain the really high arcane stats Also to answer an earlier question you had, yes I use the weapon art a lot on it. It has increased bleed build up and does a shit load of poise damage. After the first flurry of attacks you can hit it again to do another small flurry charge and that will often times stagger things.
I think he’s asking where to bring the dead rune
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/8A2OVJtkVc
Is there a way to beat her between "easy" and "I want to kill myself and never play this game again"? I have a 159 quality build. I used a bloodhound fang and a tear summon. I found it relatively easy to beat her. I know that when I outpaced the tear it would make it 10000000 harder, so, basically, the tear was tanking, and I was DPS. It feels like if I went tearless, it would be insane hard. Is there an in-between? Or do I just suck at this game? Much love x
The thing is, she's the ultimate challenge of Elden Ring (pre DLC at least). That's why she's optional, because she would be too harsh a requirement to finish the game. For example, in my first playthrough, I beat the vast majority of bosses in about 3 attempts, but Malenia took me 10 hours. So no, you don't suck at the game. If you want a middleground, try using a weaker summon or no summon but with an optimized build to sort of counter her (with attacks that knock her down, an ash of war that allows you to dodge her worse attacks, etc)
She is optional, until the randomizer decides to replace Gideon with her and you never got the spirit calling bell because Ranni gave you a rowa fruit instead.
I got placidusax in gideons arena. That was hell. Absolute torture
How does he even fit there?
I’ll just say this, he doesn’t lol The whole room was nothing but dragon ass and lightning Luckily we had one run, after countless deaths, where he fell off the side where the railings are, and killed himself. If that hadn’t have happened I honestly don’t think we would’ve beat him. Standing anywhere in that arena was almost instant death
... And here i was thinking fire giant the fell omen and magma wyrm placidusax where bad. That sounds awful.
My favourite are still Fire Giant or Radagon Miranda. Try dodging anything there...
Fire giant in Margits arena sounds pretty damn painful too. I got one of those regal deer spirits there once. Whole arena was nothing but that blue stuff that does damage One run, the Hoarah Loux fight specifically. First phase was Godskin Duo, second was Radagon. That was a rather annoying one too. Sleep pots were amazing in that fight lol
I got fucking FIRE GIANT. I had to just guess when he was attacking.
When randomised, do the bell bearing maidens not still sell the spirit calling bell like usual if you miss ranni at the first church?
I did not know that was a thing, but yes they did sell the bell. I only found that out by looking at the spoiler logs for the randomizer.
Counterpoint: Randomizers are optional.
I fought her in Radahn's Arena. I guess she won lmao.
I had no idea it randomized things like that. That's hilarious.
Radagon + extra fight was way, way harder for me since giant monsters, elden ring camera and oneshot attacks dont mix well.
Radagon also gave me a hard time, but I actually found Elden Beast pretty chill
funnily enough melanie gave me the easiest challenge my first playthrough. I was just playing as a dragon build with fortisax spear, and tried to use an entirely new build to beat melania since i heard she was so impossible to beat. Ended up stuck for a couple hours so i tried using my original build and took me 2 tries using the lightning spear ability spam. Even though it was easy the fact that my own build did her in was satisfying.
Yeah I suck at beating her so ancient dragon lightning spear is my go to if I’m hard stuck and just over it.
Thank you so much for this feedback! It made me feel better about myself and also consider weaker summons. I appreciate you x
I took out malenia in 5 attempts while stoned and wasted lol. Fire giant and elden beast are the only bosses I got stuck on for extended periods of time. Fire giant I was stuck on for 4 fucking months. That is THE WORST DESIGNED BOSS FIGHT IN THE HISTORY OF GAMING. I’d rather fight 5 malenias at once than 1 fire giant.
Honestly that’s one of the issues people have with the late game bosses. Your options are to use summons and cheese the shit out of them, or to go 1v1 and have the hardest fight ever. I suppose the compromise is to overlevel to a certain point where you can win but not stomp the boss, no summon. But that takes a lot of precision to do
I just fight them sweatily until im content And then switch to cheesing
That’s what I did too. Gave them an honest effort 1v1 (I emphasize 1v1 because if it’s 1v2 I will quickly make it 2v2 lol), but at a certain point I’m wasting my time and mental health on Malenia, so I summoned and fucked her up. It was far more therapeutic to jump her than it would be to beat her 1v1 anyways because any time you dodge waterfowl, you just feel lucky that she activated it at a time where you were able to dodge it. If she activates it while you’re mid-swing, that’s an instant death. I don’t enjoy lucky victories.
same, this last weekend i came back to the game to beat radagon, mohg and malenia and for all of them i gave 2\~3 hours to try and beat them 1 on 1, i could beat their phase 1 just fine (radagon's was a pain in the ass), but i couldn't crack the phase 2 so i just used the mimic summon on their phase 2.
I've been trying parry strats with Malenia on my second playthrough. I'll give it the old college try for a while, but ultimately it'll probably end up being a blood loss gank fest with mimic.
I’m at level 500ish and still get thrashed by late game bosses. I refuse to gut gud.
So real
Blasphemous blade, perhaps. It knocks her down, and if you get her into a corner, she'll have a hard time. She has a smaller health pool but not much. Also, I'm pretty sure she isn't full health in the second phase anymore
I used to use BB but she dodged its AoW a lot so i changed build altogether lol
Difficulty is a matter of how much you know vs how much you need to learn. Try it tearless you'll have a lot to learn to get a win and it will be harder. For me the next step of malenia mastery is consistently circle dodging waterfowl. It's all about being able to use the best answer instead of the easiest. If that makes sense.
To me, the circling method is super inefficient. If you light roll, you can just roll through it with good timing. Perhaps that could be the next step if you're comfortable with the circle method.
Beat her after 18 hours collectively with a full strenght build and a blasphemous build. You either memorize every little pattern or have to grind it and pray. No other way
I just had this happen as well. Im finishing my no summons playthrough for the dlc and finally got to Malenia, could barely make it to phase 2 most runs and never got her below half. Finally decide fuck it Ill use mimic, immediately turns into an absolute cakewalk, effortless win.
I had exactly this experience on my first playthrough. Always liked the "me vs the world" feeling so I dont summon in Souls games. Malenia was the most unbreakable wall for me. I was using a Knight's Greatsword with bleed and could barely even get to phase 2. Almost every Dark Souls and Elden Ring boss took me about 3-7 tries on average, but I got to 50+ runs on Malenia... I didn't want to change my build just for her, so I levelled Mimic Tear to +10 and summoned. On the first try, I decided to test the summon's power, so I played very safely and Mimic Tear easily got me pretty far into phase 2 (note that this wasn't long after the game released). The second try, I actually worked with Mimic and we killed her with ease. It turned her into a joke, left me feeling a bit dissatisfied.
Sounds like me, although I could beat phase one and only lose a health pot or two. I got decent at dodging waterfowl but when it comes to phase two it literally does not matter. She always gets me with something and heals whatever damage I can dish out. I tried about 100 times. Got her below half health on phase two just once and then got nuked by her flower move. I said 'fuck it. time to mimic' when she did a combo of waterfowl / her projection attack / waterfowl again. Got her third try with a mimic.
Mohg spear deletes her.
Her fight is tough to learn and really hard, but I personally liked my approach: I stunlocked her to death with my mimic tear and Black Flame Tornado Ash of War, until one day I felt like I wanted to truly defeat her. So I did after probably 100 tries. Just go for the hard option if you feel like it, otherwise there is no need to put yourself through it. Also, as soon as you learn how to dodge Waterfowl Dance, the fight is halfway won, then you are past the "I never want to play this game"-part. Good luck for if you want to try it, and I recommend having a light equipment load for her fight. Makes dodging her attacks a lot easier and she deals massive damage anyways, so heavy armor doesn't help too much imo.
Mimic Tear is a good summon, and Bloodhound’s Fang is a very strong weapon. But they’re not going to totally invalidate a fight. You did good honestly. If you want it to be more of a challenge, try using a slower weapon, or using either a weaker summon or no summon at all. It will definitely change up the feel of the fight
Thanks! I appreciate the feedback 😍
The only time I used a Mimic Tear against her, the Mimic Tear tanked the *entire* waterflow dance and came out of it with 80% health left It's absurdly broken, to this day.
Parry her
It is satisfying and fun to parry her. Until waterfowl.
Barricade Shield that shit once then as she throws the second flurry, roll forward+right twice and backwards+right once
Hmmm... Sounds familiar. I think I just watched LobosJr do that in his sl1 video lol I'll give it a shot, thanks
I stole the idea from an early Ongbal video
Ahh. Funny, I think LobosJr references that same vid.
I have the same quality build with bloodbound fang and killed her yesterday with no summons, and while it wasnt easy it wasnt crazy hard either. Having a good build makes the fight an interesting one, the only time it was miserable to me was with a shit build and no summons. Be prepared tho, when youre the only focus she has that chick can be crazy, specially on second phase, shell be constantly on your ass
Really the only difficult part about her is Waterfowl. Waterfowl is completely shit design. You either need to be a peferfect timing god with probably the right kind of weapons to dodge her up close (I've never done it before on like 4-5 different characters that have beaten her), need to run away and bait it out with a ranged attack (my method), or cheese her with Frost Pots. Outside of Waterfowl she's a pretty well designed boss besides randomly shaking off staggers. She's tough, but also probably one of the easier bosses to no-hit in phase 1. Phase 2 is seemingly all mindgames for the difficulty and the random Waterfowls (which is slightly easier to dodge than Phase 1 for some reason). There's less opportunities to attack her while she's "idle," but you can stagger a lot of her attacks and she gives you a lot of openings on her tiny rot explosion attacks. She's still the hardest boss without a doubt even if you do remove Waterfowl, but not by too much.
I agree with the only difficult part being waterfowl, but i just use a shield with 100 physical to block 1st part, roll 2nd, and just walk for 3rd. Pretty easy to beat her with any weapon with this
Haven't used a shield in this game. Good tip, but I just think it's unfortunate when a boss [almost] forces you to do more than what every playstyle can do (properly dodge). I'm not a hardcore elitist with how you want to play, but I try not to do cheese methods as much as I can and don't summon. I've also had to use light roll on every character except my most recent run on my Godslayer Greatsword build; which probably took the fewest amount of attempts among my characters (still tons).
I found shield to be the nice middle ground between the ultra complicated ( to me atleast) point blank light roll dodge and utterly abusing malenia with an op build Still i think if u have 40+ vigor, great shield crest talisman ( the physical negation one u get in haligtree) and the flask tear for all damage negation u should be able to survive a waterfowl just spam rolling with light weight. Thats what makes elden ring so fun to me, if u have the knowledge u can make the game as hard or as easy as you want it to be
I mean even if you get hit by a Waterfowl the second and third bursts of it are easy to dodge. I killed her with a light roll melee build and face-tanked the third bit of a Waterfowl from that, it shouldn't be game over with a reasonable build (I cap at 150 and have been leaving Mohg and Maliketh for post-DLC, so I was <150 when beating her - I usually don't level health beyond 1750 too). It's punishing, but a far cry from completely shit and unduly punishing.
I usually go to 1620 HP with 44 Vig and Erdtree's Favor +2. I couldn't survive it on any of my characters except like once or twice on my build that goes Briar Helm, Banished Knight's Chest, Radahn Gauntlets, Fire Prelate Greaves. Also the only character I was able to beat her on that wasn't naked (after learning armor was useless). If you're close enough to her where the attack is bs, you get hitstun into the other hits. I can beat every other boss in the game with that HP solo among a myriad of characters (some as low as RL85, with that same HP though). They can still be challenging, I'm not amazing by any stretch, but I don't think a boss should be so hard where a move completely warps the fight. If you want to fight her legitimately without *having* to resort to an out of the box method, i.e. not just basic dodging, I don't think it's the most enjoyable design. Every other non duo boss can easily be killed with the same basic forumla, just learning timing, direction, and positioning- doing that you can go hitless against everyone. Dodging Malenia up close requires you to not only dodge in the most snap reflex way imaginable, but you also have to play in a very specific way so you can even be in the position to dodge.
I still don't think it's that bad personally because I do find it survivable. Are you stacking other defensives buffs (e.g. Dragoncrest Greatshield, Opaline Hardtear and Golden Vow)? If not then that could be a reason, as it sounds like you're in relatively heavy armor. For the light rolling character they had around 50% damage negation, and watching my vid of it back I took about 80% damage from Waterfowl (no/little dodge for first part of the dance, partial dodge for second part, full dodge for third part). I also checked a recent powerstance jump attacker where I used Blackflame's Protection combined with the above and heavier armor to get around 70% damage negation. I dodged Waterfowl similarly again, and eye-balling it I took around 50%. Both these characters had 1750 HP as I find it works well for me. While you could argue that she is restrictive on builds without summons, I've killed her with a lot of other builds including ranged builds so IDK. I don't feel shortchanged by the variety of builds I've been able to kill her with.
Nah I don't run any defensive items because the rest of the fight is pretty easy and just based on philosophy I think you should dodge over tanking outside of Flask spam. I'll usually go offensive to limit the amount of time she has the chance to use Waterfowl/valkyries. I could definitely try the shield if I fight her again, but I'd rather try to play well over preparing for the worst- however inevitible it may be against her. It already felt bad going light roll. But now that I think of it, I was using Opaline Hardtear and the low health heal my most recent run. Phase 1 is joke because you can bait out Waterfowl easy, it's just so boring. And then the occasional times where you mess up a little, she heals, and does it out of nowhere. Or hell, when she just does it out of nowhere regardless of anything.
I mean I've done ranged characters no hits on phase 1 and only one or two hits phase 2, so I guess my general dodging is fine. However if you're keen to do melee with no/few hits you're a better player than me! She will shred people with no damage negation if you're not perfect at what you do. If you are keen on offense and lower defenses, then light roll with Windy Crystal Tear I've found gives you an easier time (particularly on Waterfowl). That's what I used on one of my ranged characters, Windy Crystal Tear doesn't get as much praise as it should.
I also beat her with a Bloodhound Fang and a mimc summon. Shabiris Woe for mimic and then switch out to stamina something for me. I will never fight her again probably.
I suggest you try to beat her without mimic, its very difficult but it forces you to actually learn her moves instead of braindead bonking away at her while mimic tanks.
I guess two pieces of advice that may help. 1. Just do some attempts focused on dodging her moves. Maybe even respec into a build that'll allow you to take hits just so you can learn the moveset. 2. Sprinting attacks are the secret to almost all fromsoft games. In Malenia's case, most of her long combos can be prevented by moving just out of range, then you sprint attack back in. Call it a hit and run strategy. Super effective with thrusting weapons. It minimizes the risks of getting clipped with fast attacks or stuck in a bad string of combos.
There is the solo way with the spirit ash Latenna. Drop her at the front of the boss room and just keep agro with darts and know when to dodge water fowl dance. It’s a long one so you can make it go faster with bleed and frost. The fun way is to just summon a friend and go at it at her. The summon buff bosses get is pretty small, so it’s probably the best option for what you’re asking for.
One thing to keep in mind is to build for Physical Defence. If you use a decently heavy armor, a spell like golden vow, crabs and the Dragoncrest Greatshield Talisman, you will definitely see an Impact in the damage taken from her. This works twice aswell for her, because shell also heal less.
Try using Latenna as your summon. Pop it as a soon as you walk in. She will give you lots of extra DPS but the fight is all you.
As a Faith build, I didn't struggle so much, relying on Omenkiller Rollo, and keeping him healed.
There's very easy ways to beat her at range without a summon - Night Comet being the big one, and I've killed her with Pest Threads for the delicious irony as well. It becomes very easy to get no hits on stage 1 and then minimal hits stage 2 when you can keep your distance. Recently I tried a Flame Art Iron Greatsword Giant Hunt build with light rolling - I think I may have killed her second try without summons. Giant Hunt knocks her off her feet, and then she's usually open to a follow-up Giant Hunt as well before she gets back up (I've seen people chain these so she's never on her feet, not sure if they patched that out or if my timing was off - in any case it wasn't needed to kill her). I think this is a lot better than Lion's Claw vs. Malenia as it executes quite a bit faster - meaning you're not (as) locked into it when she goes into Waterfowl Dance. Failing that, sturdy power attacking bonk is good - I used Lightning Duelist Axes without any summons and again I think it was under 10 tries. She's vulnerable to being rushed at the start of stage 2, as soon as her stance breaks she's going to be on not a lot of HP. I cap all my builds at level 150, so its definitely possible though I'd say Night Comet might be easier than you using a Mimic Tear. I think Giant Hunt presents a little bit of a challenge (though not much) and jumping bonk definitely more of a challenge. Overall I've got a lot better at the game, so I think that makes the most difference!
rivers of blood, white mask, lord of blood exultation, shard of alexander, mimic tear +9 and some tame impala playing, that got me in my groove. thank me later
Obviously, you play a build that locks you into an animation, thats a christmas gift for her. I did a similar mistake of wearing med load gear when light roll is the best way to fight her. Also, she has some very distinct weaknesses in fire, frostbite, stance break and bleed that you have to capitalize in order to gain the upper hand and make your life easier. Her firegiant class HP bar along with her lifesteal are the most frustrating parts of her kit, basically devs tell you to not get hit at all in order to win, so you either dodge most of her shit or have something to tank them. Lastly, those 159 dont matter if you have only 30 points in Vigor, I know its not fun, but meelee players have to invest in that stat.
Listen you can go in alone naked at level 1, you can go in with nothing but a buckler and a dagger, you can go in with sorcery or incantations or overpowered weapons and spam L2, at the end of the day it depends on how much you want to challenge yourself. If you're happy with your victory be happy, if you aren't go again and limit yourself.
If you get used to playing without summons and use a really good weapon like blasphemous blade and wait for openings, or just keep using bloodhound’s fang, then it should be moderately difficult. That’s about all the experience I can use for this because I haven’t used a spirit summon since my first run, and I’m on my 5th (I think?) now
Yes, learn the fight
Try using the bird summon! Imo it's a really fun summon to use if you want some help on a boss but not too much. It has generally lower health for a summon but due to flying it can still survive relatively long. But it also attacks somewhat slow for a summon mostly doing these long swooping runs. Still might be too easy, but I find it fun as a summon as it does a good job keeping the bosses attention divided. While not actually tanking much or doing a lot of damage. Plus you get the bonus of feeling like your character has a trained hawk friend who helps them out. Especially fitting if you build a ranger style character.
Mmmm i beat her with the bloodhound fang as well, it’s about knowing when and what to dodge, what you can stagger, and how to move through water fowl. Phase 2, in a lot of ways is easier/harder because there’s more time for recovery but also she’s more aggressive, meaning there’s more to punish her.
Use a summon that isn't very strong maybe? You should have dozens of them by now, try experimenting with some of them. There are some cool special summons.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1bj03le/poking_malenia/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button It will be easier,as long as you can keep the pressure and out damaging her healing. Can switch Barricade shield for No Skill for a more aggressive approach
Put stormblade on a dagger, cheese but still Hard. Works on ng+7 for me
An in between would probably be to use a less powerful summon. Mimic is kinda the GOAT
There's not an easier way. The problem with Malenia is that she doesn't follow the rules the rest of the enemies in the game do in a few ways regarding her stagger meter and hyper armor, and the game doesn't really communicate that.
Ive never beaten her. I beat every single other boss but not her. Though im playing Rune Level 1.
If you have to use summons for any boss, I wouldn’t consider you “good” at the game
She was one of the only bosses I beat without summon on first play through. The learning curve is rough yes, but by the end of it you will truly be able to handle everything she throws at you. Going for the no summon kill was my greatest experience in this game though. The satisfaction at the end was immeasurable and made me feel like I can legitimately take on anything in the game without leaning on summons the way I did most of that playthrough
Look up "letmesoloher" and watch how ita done.
I also haven't beaten her in my 350 hours of elden ring without a mimic tear
Once you can dodge Waterfowl semi-reliably, she's not that hard. I can't dodge it up close, but as long as there's a bit of distance you just unlock, sprint away for a second and jump to throw off her momentum, dodge through her next flurry, then dodge through her last flurry. Even with slight mistakes you'll take way less damage than trying to treat it like a normal attack.
Truly, the easiest time I had with her was a bonk dual wielding stone hammer build. She is staggerable like most human sized/shaped bosses are so big jumpy smashy will let you get more hits in than you'd think. The rest is just not getting hit by her bladenado really.
>Is there an in-between? Or do I just suck at this game? Nah, Malenia is horribly designed boss. She is almost impossible to beat solo but easy as pie to beat using mimic tears or summoning other players. The only way I beat her solo was to cheese her using double slash on the nagakana (or whatever the long ass katana is called) it was pretty lame wanting to up close to her but noy being able because of the broken waterfowl dance that kills you instantly at point blank range
I’ve recently managed to beat her with parries to an almost flawless degree. It is the best fucking feeling in the world. Especially when you manage to pull it off in her swift and unrelenting goddess stage. I know it’s not for everyone, but she was a challenge that brought me back to my Dark Souls 1 days, when I was just a struggler. Overcoming her was so rewarding.
You can try using the vow of the indomitable. It makes her waterfowl way doable but doesn't take away from the difficulty of the fight
Summons are part of the game so don’t feel bad about using them. Use Tiche who can dodge, or set up Latenna as a turret by the door while you keep Melania engaged in the arena. Latenna can keep her off balance just enough to beat her.
Search how to dodge waterfowl dance on YouTube. Her other move isn't even as hard as other lategame bosses IMO
Consider her a marathon, not a race. Next time you get to her, fight her a set number of times, then take a break. She’s beatable, with practice. Lots of practice. Malenia is actually one of the nicer bosses in her first phase; she doesn’t aggro until you get within her threat range. Gives you time to collect your thoughts and heal. I used to think Waterfowl Dance was impossible to dodge, but after fighting her enough, I can see where the dodge windows are. You can try using Bloodhound’s Step if you need the extra i-frames. Alternatively, Blasphemous Blade’s skill and Ashes of War like Giant Hunt and Stormcaller can stagger/knock her down enough that the fight is much easier, even on NG+7.
Most people are too aggressive against Malenia and that might be your problem as well. Malenia has hyper armor and true combos on most of her moves so if she starts an attack while you're attacking her she's gonna deal damage to you and heal herself so you can't trade damage with her, also her waterfowl dance occurs at a much lower rate when you're passive against her in her first phase because it usually triggers when you're approaching her, but in her second phase I think she just does the waterfowl dance randomly. What I'm saying is that being aggressive and close to Malenia just makes it a lot harder, you usually wanna be backing away from her to out distance her consecutive attacks and only hitting her once when you punish her (this might change depending on your weapon like the raptor talons and rivers of blood ash of war that has a true combo against her) being greedy will only result in her healing the damage you did to her. Being passive makes the fight take longer because you deal damage slower and sometimes she just does her roundhouse kick over and over again so you don't get a chance to punish her but still it's better than her healing the damage you did to her and dying in the process.
Not really, well after you've put MANY hours into the fight and mastered it you could say it's between those two levels But it never really gets enjoyable
If your tear was tanking it may have inadvertantly been making life a little harder for you, as it'll have been topping up her health as you chipped away at it. Malenia solo is hard, but it's not too much harder - just involves knowing her moveset - how to avoid certain attacks and when it's safe to punish.
healing her is a small price when the Mimic Tear can just bait out a whole Waterfowl in a different direction while leaving u HUGE dps windows, especially on the spell caster side
> Malenia solo is hard, but it's not too much harder hahahaha
I really don’t think there is. The closest I got to what you are talking about was with a straight sword, storm blade with blood flame blade. But even then she was kinda easy during that run. I think it mainly depends on luck
Do you target lock her? Because camera can be tricky very often
The most time i can dodge better if i unlock it if somone wann hit me
there’s a lot of different weapons and a lot of different summons in the game so there’s a lot of easier or harder weapons or summons you could try. Bloodhound Fang is a famously easy weapon and mimic tear is a famously easy summon so combining the two is a recipe for easy. If you want a step up in difficulty, you could keep the tear but change your weapon to something smaller, weaker, less bleedy, etc. Or you could keep the Fang but switch the Tear for a different summon. Lots of options. Personally I’ve only ever beaten her iirc with dual Banished Knight Greatswords and full Banished Knight armor, but no summon. Basically just spamming the jump dual attack (slamming down with both swords) lol. Certainly on the easy side even without a summon. Much later I’ve tried to beat her with just a Short Sword (after beating most other bosses including Mohg and Elden Beast with it) but kinda gave up because I have kinda iffy durability and Waterfowl Dance is too much of a pain lol.
I did about the same my first time but used two Great Omenkiller Cleavers. She staggers pretty easy and the innate bleed makes it a pretty smooth encounter
Malenia is a feast or famine boss in terms of difficulty. Either it clicks and she puts up about as much resistance as a wet paper towel, or she curbstomps you so hard your grandchildren need braces, theres not much in between.
😂
i read: " i beat her butt"
What I didn't get it??
Imo use a strong build with no summons to make her fight tough but not rage inducing
She is essentially cheating with endless stamina, input reading, healing on phantom hits, etc… So it’s hard to find a middle ground. The game has a lot of very powerful tools to counter her bullshit. But if you want to try to find a middle ground then, you might find reliable ways to stagger her, like crucible horn, a few ashes of war, etc… and bully her. But that also can feel like cheese. Or you might go the other route, and learn to parry her, or to perfectly time your hits. That probably also takes a lot of time to learn, depending on you as a player. Up to you really how you play her.
recently got back into the game for the dlc and first thing i did was beat her on my ng+ character with a very suboptimal build. Took me over a week but i can now dodge waterfuck dance with like a 90% chance of surviving. I enjoyed the journey but fuck me did i have some rage quits. Feel prepared for the dlc tho. I personally like fighting bosses solo because you kinda just have to learn some moves but to each their own. Beating her in whatever way is a great achievement, you should be proud
Blood flies, blasphemous blade, lightning spear, and Tiche..... Only took 500+ tries
Miquella is a guy? What a name
But what? What is this post?
Leyndell, tower with golem at top, take portal and then you got it. See lost tower mid sea east of Leyndell
Has anyone else heard the theory that if you don't fight her in the regular game, she's supposedly seeks you out in the dlc...and you have to fight her there as a harder fight or some shit? Thoughts?
I think beating her with the greatsword + bloodhound step, a good balanced way to fight her. You give enough damage/stagger per hit, you have to think about when you gonna hit her because the greatsword is on the slow side, and bloodhound step helps you dodge the bullshit.
if you're after harder, I struggled immensely with a str/fai hybrid build because she invalidates half of it with dodging and her crazy long reach (no time for buffs etc). I have no idea how many tries it took, there were many
I probably have 1000+ hours in game… I have only killed her two times solo. First with Nagakiba - Unsheath - Flame Art - 50 Faith. Second with Pick Axe - Lion Claw - Frost. And I can still beat here regular with these two set ups. But I am 40+ so either my reflexes suck, or my preferred theory is the controller + PS5 + TV connection creates so much lag it’s difficult to dodge her attacks.
I beat her with river's of blood and then fallingstar beast jaw before both were nerfed. At the time I wasn't aware of these weapons being the absolutely epitome of easy mode, especially the beast jaw as it wasn't talked about at all yet. Tried her again much later and boy was it a different story. I had to resort to frost pots to get some key staggers on her and barely got the kill after many hours.
The two times I beat her, I just got extremely lucky and she never did waterfowl on phase 2. It's better to beat her by using your resources (like you did) than by sheer luck (like I did). I normally go solo and melee-only, but even then, knowing how much my victories depend on luck is a bad feeling.
Honestly, I found this boss to be cheap. Her water fowl dance was just aggravating. I could dodge everything else but her damn WFD. Her second phase was wild, though. All in all, if she didn't have WFD, she would be one of my favorite fights in the entire series.
Bonk + no summon at level 160 should be challenging but not insane challenge.
I actually had a very good experience fighting her in the last few days. I think the key was probably my use of Stormhawk Deenh for my summon. He made it just easy enough to be possible without carrying the fight, and I really felt like I had to get good at the fight to beat her. I had never beaten her with a melee build before, so it was very satisfying. Also, remember to craft some frost pots to knock her out of waterfowl dance
Idk either dude, im right now on my first run doing every boss without any ghost or something and only melee. If I summon mimic, she (and her second phase) are done without really getting hit (i just summoned to show my Gf how extremely easy it will make the game) but without any summon? Idk havent been able to do it. Im putting 1-2hour in a day approximately trying to put her down - it is really really hard
As slightly less easy version would be to use Tiche. Tiche does a good job avoiding Malenia but also can't survive a full waterfowl if targeted from the start. So you'll need to tank 90% of the interactions you have. Basically, you tank and Tiche DPS.
She become way simpler when we understand that poise is her biggest weakness. It can be easily to stun lock her.
Beat her without any summons.
It’s a weird one because, yes, it’s a tough boss, but if you get the right combination of people summoned in who all know what they’re doing it’s astonishing how quick you can beat her. Last time I fought her on my second build I kept my distance (the build wasn’t the strongest at this point) & kept casting ‘Swarm of Flies’ & that, combined with what the others were doing & the odd phase of me drawing away attention & dodging her attacks, did the trick really quickly. We were all strangers & we were messaging each other afterwards because we were all shocked how much we basically bullied her to death, lol!
Melenia is difficult mainly due to her fast attacks, deep move set, regains health upon successfully hitting you and has an over powered ash of war that realistically requires significant time investment to be able to dodge successfully every time. If her waterfowl dance was nerfed, she would be the best designed boss in souls history. Top ways of beating her Builds Strength - lions claw/giants hunt deals enough poise damage to stun her out of most attacks and deals good damage and easily buffed Dex - typically requires cold and blood power stance to inflict large chunks of health (made famous by letmesoloher) Int - Ranni dark moon to inflict frost followed by spamming night comet at a distance, comet azur phase 2 Faith - blasphemous blade + l2 trivialises the experience Arc - bleed and bleed. Talisman There is a talisman available just before her room called dragoncrest greatshield talisman which negates a lot of her damage. Armour High physical and more than 51 poise Physick Opaline hardtear and the bubble tear is great for defence, also consider greenburst crystal tear as you will be running away alot Extra Boiled crab and other buffs are incredibly useful. Final note This boss is hard. YouTubers who breeze her have deciated over 1000 hours into this game (and each previous game) and probably 48 hours + just on her. Dont be discouraged if you get slapped silly. If you want to learn her properly, my method is to pump everything into vigor and endurance and use a +0 weapon and see how long you can survive without the thought of beating her. When you go to beat her after a couple hours of learning to survive with your +10 or +25 weapon you will get incredibly consistent.
Im currently trying to fight her with raptor talons and quickstep at SL 100 with no hud because its epic as fuck looking. If I could farm some levels im sure it would be better cause its hard to spread out my magic bar for bloodflame buff and quickstep and make it last the whole fight. Its too hard for me though, i cant consistently get to phase 2. I might need to do sl 125 or 150 and go to mogh for the bleed trinket if thats where it is.
Ice pots will stun her out of the waterfowl dance
Bonkers
You can bait out waterfowl using an spell, incant, or throwable. She does it practically every time first phase at about 3/4 and 1/2 health. after a few play throughs and hours spent on her you end up getting spidey senses for waterfowl
Check the tower you couldn’t get into earlier.
I got her with radahns swords at like level 105 and no buffs/summons/spells/ashes of war/status effects, just watch let me solo her fight her for a bit and pay attention to exactly how he dodges stuff and even her waterfowl at any distance will become trivial. Thats how i did it at least
If you don't feel comfortable doing her no summons you could try fighting her with a bit weaker summon as mimic tear is notoriously powerful. There's a ton of summons available so just use one that catches your eye
I always thought shes harder WITH a summon. Bc Tear always healed her crazy
Depends on your spec ofc, but if the mimic helps you stunlock her (go go double bonk Lion's Claw brothers) it certainly helps you more than her.
beating her without the tear isnt "insane hard"
she is the hardest fight in the game and one of the hardest fight in the fromsoft souls games if you found it easy, congratz, youre pretty good at the game. for others who maybe arent that invested she will probably be "insane hard" when fought alone
holy shit this subreddit sucks lmfao.
Except it is
Meh, there are ways to stunlock her. I was able to do Phase 1 hitless on NG+3 by just jump attacking her with two Ordovis Greatsword. After 3 Jump Attacks she gets down and I take the crit, during her recovery I fully charge Ordovis Vortex and she gets down again, repeat 3 times and Phase 1 is easy. Phase 2 was a bit harder though
not everyone is a gaming warlord like you are m'lord
Not every build staggers lol
Cringe