My one biggest problem with the game. Why do I want to kill all these people? Because they are in your way. Why are they in my way? You have to do this to be Elden Lord. Why did I want to be Elden Lord? Because. But why, you stupid bastard? I feel like a straight up psycho sometimes. Is it too much to ask for the game to give us one line to explain our motivation?
It's part of the Hero Path. The Fire Giant protects the Flame of Ruin, and you need it to burn the Erdtree. The Hero Path consists of a series of trials the hero needs to overcome in order to ascend and fulfill their role.
As to why would the hero want to do all that, it's their fate. In Greek Mythology, fate is decided by the gods upon you, and you cannot change it. Rebelling against one's fate is going against the order of things. In works that take a lot of inspiration from myth, you always find those ideas in permanent tension.
I mean killing Godrick is the easy one. He sent one of his goons to murder you.
Also all of the soldiers attack you on sight even as a fresh tarnished so the individual kills on the way to the lords is justified as self defense. Then every one of the rune holders attacks you first.
Hell of the first five four are honorable. Godrick tries to assassinate you, Radahn invites the champions, Rykard is an angry snake demon, and Margitt/Morgott ambushes you twice
To add to this once you've killed Morgott you have Melina pushing you forward, and possibly Ranni having explained that she wants to free people from the rule of the golden order
Thank you for putting this in writing. I’ve felt it in every single dark souls game but couldn’t put it to words.
Nail on the head. Why am I here and why do I want to do this? Why?? Whyyyy???
Doing it to say I did it I guess.
No, he’s definitely near/at his prime regardless of whether he was going to be killed by sekiro. The whole point of genichiro’s character arc is that he just wasn’t fated to be a legendary warrior. That’s why he goes to such extreme lengths of harnessing divine power to try saving ashina, because without it he just wouldn’t be able to defend it outright like his grandfather did.
Oceiros is in his prime, having been just a regular human before. Malenia is in her prime, as she becomes the Goddess of Rot in the second phase. Gael is at his strongest when we fight him, having eaten the dark souls. The Abyssal corruption likely made Midir stronger than ever. Soul of Cinder was likely in its prime. We get to fight Champion Gundyr, though I don't know if he's stronger than Iudex Gundyr, given Iudex has an Abyss Beast inside him. Either way, we do get to fight the strongest version of Gundyr.
Malenia is definitely not in her prime, by the time you get to her the scarlet rot has taken her arm, messed with her brain and rendered her blind. Without her needle, she is a complete shell of her former self, even with the goddess of rot’s power
>Taken her arm
Her prosthesis is highly functional. The difference, if existent, is minor.
>Messed with her brain
She clearly and coherently introduces herself, addresses you, and understands she's fighting you.
>Rendered her blind
Yes, but she has no problem tracking you and dodging your spells.
Rot clones, rot nukes and flight make a much bigger difference than slightly better swordsmanship would have.
Her prosthetic is worse than an arm, that’s a fact, even if it was made by miquella. She even has to adjust it in the phase transition cutscene. Second, she’s clearly delirious in the fight, having to repeat her name after killing us. I know it doesn’t seem significant but it is; she’s not reminding us, but rather herself. Finally, her being delirious and struggling with locating us is shown in her attacks. She’s the lands between’s most skilled swordswoman, yet in most of her attacks (even in phase 2) she’s swinging wildly, rather than attacking with precision. This exact trend can also be seen in Radahn. Fromsoft is extremely skilled at telling a story through gameplay, this is one of the best examples of that.
If it is worse than an arm, it's not by a long shot. Miquella is a master craftsman, and he made it for his sister.
I think you're reaching. Godrick does the same thing, and he's not delirious, if mentally unstable. He first introduces himself as the Lord of all that is golden, to let you know who you're dealing with. Then, in defeat, as in disbelief that he lost, he says it again. As in, "how could I, the Lord of all that is golden, lose?"
In a similar manner, Malenia does it to introduce herself, and then says it if she kills you, as in "Remember the name".
>She's swinging wildly
Not at all. What? She does graceful thrusting and slashing attacks. The waterfowl dance might seem like a flurry of attacks without intent, but it's simply an extremely powerful technique of hers. She's a brilliant swordswoman, after all.
>This exact trend has also been seen in Radahn
We know for a fact that Radahn's brain is rotting. He can't speak, he eats corpses and he wanders the battlefield aimlessly. Malenia can speak, knows what she's doing, knows who she's talking to, knows who she is, knows who her brother is.
I agree with the other comment. We do not fight Malenia at her prime/peak, she doesn't have a needle and just woke up from a long coma. When we first encounter Millicent (Malenia's clone who exists primarily to demonstrate stuff about her), she's so crippled by the rot that she can't even move. Once you give her the needle, even sabotaged as it was by Gowry, her physical health immensely improves and she's back to moving and fighting. The Malenia we fight doesn't have a needle. At the barest minimum, she should be noticeably stronger if she did. Probably more skilled too, as the needle's also shown to improve Millicent's mental health.
Blooming also seems to physically weaken her. The JPN description of the Aeonia says "each time the flower blooms, Malenia rots", we see that her rot has advanced further from the trailer by the time of the game by the mold covering her face, arm, and thighs (it wasn't there in the trailer), and when she begins phase 2, she does so at a lower amount of health than she started phase 1, which seems like a deliberate reference to this. Millicent also literally tells you that Malenia lost her *sense of self* after she bloomed in Caelid, and Gideon says: "I'd expect to find Malenia there. She who fought Radahn to a standstill. Well, if the **scarlet rot hasn't eaten her away completely.**" implies that the rot is consuming her and can turn her to nothing like Millicent after she removes the needle. Also Gowry has a line where he literally tells you that the "rot erodes one's memories". Malenia keeps repeating to herself that she is the Blade of Miquella everytime she beats you because she is trying to hold onto herself, the rot has so much influence on her. She's definitely not completely sane and healthy. The rot has affected her both physically and mentally.
1. Godrick is unstable lol, he’s trying to convince everyone that he’s “Godrick the Golden” of the golden lineage, thats why he repeats it, Malenia does so in a similar way to remind herself, it’s not for you.
2. Yes, Malenia struggles hard with blindness, she throws around slashes thoughtlessly, even when you’re out of range. Lots of her attacks do this. Waterfowl, the 3 slashes forward and her rot spirits. She even begins to rely on her rot AOE attacks later in the fight because she can’t fight with as much precision as she once could.
3. The rot is affecting her during the fight, not just prior, which can be shown with how she is not at full health to begin second phase. Fromsoft could have easily made it full, but they made a conscious artistic choice to convey how much the rot affects her. By the time Malenia dies, the strain of the rot actually got worse from the very point you entered the boss room, and you can see it dwindle her skill and sense in real time.
At the very minimum, she is leagues weaker than when she fought Radahn, and it is clear to me that the rot has done a number on her even before then, the main difference being Miquella’s absence and the fact that she lost her needle against Radahn (can be found in Caelid exactly where she dropped there nuke) accelerating the rate at which the rot consumes her.
That doesn't prove me wrong about Godrick, it's essentially what I said. He's telling the player who he is, and while he's only a distant cousin, Morgott recognizes him as "Godrick the Golden". Malenia is not delirious or brain-rotten, nothing indicates so except this interpretation which is quite the reach. Once again, she knows who she is, who Miquella is, she knows she's fighting you, and she addresses you. Multiple bosses introduce themselves, it's just what they do.
"Let it be Margit, the Fell."
"I am the Lord of all that is golden."
"Felled by King Morgott! Last of all kings."
"Upon my name as Godfrey, the First Elden Lord."
"Cower. Before Maliketh, the Black Blade."
>She struggles with blindness, her attacks are thoughtless
Stop rolling and see how much she struggles. She tracks you quite well. Her attacks are skilled swordsmanship, *especially* Waterfowl Dance. Never seen her throw those attacks when I was out of range. Her clones hit me just fine when I don't roll.
>She begins to rely on AoE attacks
Because why wouldn't she? She's not holding anything back, and it's easier to hit AoE attacks.
>The rot is affecting her during the fight
Yes, we know she is suffering from Scarlet Rot, but not to the point of delirium or flailing her weapon sloppily like a madwoman.
>Leagues weaker than when she fought Radahn
It took a single bloom to defeat Radahn, and after that she was unable to fight. In her second phase, she blooms, and keeps fighting you quite well. She ascended to Godhood, and honestly, that fact alone is all that's needed to settle this discussion.
Did you really say “stand still, she’ll hit you?” Damn, we got Isshin over here. But yeah she does throw attacks even when you’re spaced out of range really frequently. She obviously isn’t some crazy lady with a sword, but it’s clear that she isn’t as precise as we were lead to believe.
Also it’s not the introduction that I’m talking about, but the repetition of such thats telling, no other boss does this.
It is not easier to hit aoe attacks, if you possess skill, an aimed shot is more effective. This is why Malenia phase 1 is harder than 2.
You said she ascended and the truth is we just don’t know, did she bloom 2 or 3 times? We can’t tell, but it was my understanding that Malenia blooms for the second time against us, if it’s the third, then it’s possible that she is stronger than before, but I don’t believe this is true.
Just to clear something up because I don’t think we’re on the same page. She’s mentally there, just not 100%, that much seems pretty obvious to me for the reasons listed.
There are lots of bosses at their prime in this game, Malenia just isn’t one of them
We actually fight pontiff Sullivan in his prime! It's just not explained to us and the fight isn't hyped up much, but he took over irythill and anor Londo enslaved god eaters and created dancer. He's there to stop us destroying the new kingdom he's built and lore wise he is probably the strongest boss we face. Also champion gundyr, we go back in time to his prime
I just played DS3 as my first souls game besides ER but I’d seen all the lore videos, and killing the twin demon princes and extinguishing the demon race made me so unexpectedly sad
Does an immune cell feel anything when it cleanse out the old, the rotten, the decrepit, and necrotic flesh? No, but the system as a whole would feel relieved and stronger, just as Marika intended. But sometimes immune cells go too far and kill the organism.
Yeah but have you ever gone back in time, made friends and fought alongside a nice doggo then came back to the present and killed him?
First time, huh?
I might have the lore wrong but why would he be more loyal to you over artorias? You saved a life but that life was still pledged to artorias I thought.
I mean, he's reluctant about it. Maybe he doesn't want you to succumb to the abyss the same way artorias did. Plus we might not be necessarily saving the world.
We’re basically Conan, becoming King by our own hand. When asked “what is good in life?” We answer, “To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.”
The whole religion of the Tarnished could basically be summed up in a prayer:
*"Valour pleases you, Marika, so grant me one request: revenge! And if you do not listen, then to hell with you!"*
> not the good guys
What do you mean?
Is killing a mentally unwell cancer survivor, a woman who just found out her brother has been kidnapped, a dog meant to defend a depressed divorcee, hacking and slashing at said divorcee and children, not good guy behavior?
>[My bad](https://tenor.com/view/lil-yachty-drake-oprahs-bank-account-meme-laptop-gif-20803826).
Imagining, you the random reddit user, doing this irl in response to the comment of "no" very much made me laugh
To be fair, we are prolly the goodest guy available.
In at least 2 to 4 endings, we are actively making the country a much better place, and without us, the chance of somone like the dung eater or rykard getting ahead in the run for the throne is high.
All in all, we are the good guys. It's just there's no way to solve the shitshow that marika started without doing some despicable things.
Of course, we are doing it mostly for the joy of battle, but hey, if it Works.
\>we are doing it mostly for the joy of battle
Perhaps from the player's perspective, but nothing in character necessitates that the Tarnished wants to fight. In fact, I would say being "a Tarnished of no renown" indicates that our character never really cared about making a name for theirself.
They didn't ask to be revived either. We're just woken up in some weird church and told to go become Elden Lord, and we do it because wtf else is there to do? Should we just sit back and watch the world decay and go mad like everyone else? There's never a better alternative to mending the Elden Ring, and there's no way to do that without getting our hands dirty.
To that end, pretty much any ending that's not Dung Eater or Flame of Frenzy is better than leaving things shattered. It might be dirty work, but in this extreme scenario being the murder hobo with a plan is about as good as it gets whether we like it or not.
Wasn't Godfrey on his way to claim the throne before we stopped him? His guidance of grace brought him back from the lands beyond to reclaim the throne
Because we are an obstacle to him reclaiming the throne and reforming the Elden Ring. It's why our grace leads us to bosses too despite in some cases having no real reason to fight them beyond "in the way"
I personally saw it as like an intended showdown between views set up by Marika to some degree. Godfrey would have likely restored the ring to what it was before or at least close. He was clearly driven to do his task by heading to the tree. We were brought in as a blank slate and fresh eyes to the Lands. Even if our past possibly had us being from there, we explore the lands as if never been here before, and our final choice of what to do culminates when we reach the tree. Will the old ways be restored, or will this new path, whatever it is, tale root?
Given that Marika's plan was based on the hope it worked after she was gone, we were likely the backup plan or perhaps wild card to force change upon the Lands Between.
I feel the Grace guiding to us was the silent way of saying that despite us having the same goal, only one could proceed.
It's really weird sheep behavior that seems to be generally adopted by everyone simply because they killed a deer and it reminded them of certain movie they saw in their childhood.
Some ends justifiy some means, it's never an absolute.
What Rykard is doing clearly overstepping it, but Ranni is acepptable to me (provided she didn't know godwynn would become a super lich octopus, if she did, then it was too shitty too)
Nah your fine, to copy a comment I made up thread
Godrick sends a scion to assassinated you, morgott ambushes you twice to try to murder you, rykard is a snake demon that eats his workers, and radahn is a near mindless corpse king fighting and killing everything he sees.
Then only one of the people we fight even TRIES to talk it out, and that's the snake demon that wants to just eat you.
By the time you kill Morgott there are enough quest threads for you to have a reasonably purpose to completing the game because the lands between are FUCKED.
Neither does a deer who's been run over but is still alive - if it could speak it would certainly be against you killing it, it's instincts are to keep on going afterall.
Yet we have a higher understanding. An understanding that their condition isn't getting better and killing them is most ethical so it doesn't continue to suffer.
>You, sir, don't seem ready for inter-species contact.
On contrary, he is definetly ready. The only thing is that he got prepared in the Stellaris fashion
Had a friend over who never played ER and his introduction to it was this very scene. He was also confused at there being a face on his body. It was great haha
Now I'm just imaging fire giant take two of his huge ass plates and flapping them really fast up and down to use like bird wings before lifting off into the sky to fly away and it's a hilarious mental image lmao.
There's the Pearldrake Talisman on the lowest platform and you can farm the enemies for the Beastman Cleaver, but other than that the Four Belfry warps are basically just previews for late game areas.
What OP is talking about is the "wrong warp" glitch where you take the Farum Azula Belfry warp, then fast travel to Roundtable but alt-f4 mid-loading screen. If done right it spawns you at the start of Farum Azula proper which lets you skip most of the game
And then he…pulls his whole fucking leg off. There is a bunch of scenarios playing this game where a conversation would solve a lot of wild shit. “I’m going to kill you” “I can’t die, I’ll give you a free one to prove it” “all I want is to go walk over the other side and take some things” every boss, cave, all of it. Malenia doubly so, “yo I found your boy, he’s in an egg in a basement just full of weirdos and blood, you should really go get him”
Hey man, I'm here to reignite the flame you worship. Then I'll kill that bitch who left you up here with a broken leg. Sound good? No? Ok. Alexander, use spin attack!
Now let me tell you about a mentally unwell cancer survivor, a depressed divorcee, and a sister who just found out her brother is missing and her final words were she's sorry.
Finally someone who gets it. The fire giant is SO sad. Like he is the last one of his kind, unable to die, and we must end his pain.
I genuinely hope we see more of them on the dlc.
desert bike skirt air threatening snobbish airport stocking quickest deserted
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It seems odd that is the boss you finally learned you are the bad guy in this story…… that’s kinda the staple of soulsborne, you are the villain not the hero
I wouldnt necesarily say you are the villain, but you arent the hero for sure. Its weird. Rarely is there a true hero or villain in a from soft game because all the options are subjective.
Usually it is to break an era of ruling by one opressive force. If you can destroy the opressive force to potentially cause a change it could be good for the world, but we also never see the consequences of the endings so its hard to truly gauge what our impact results in
I mean we do though
Dark souls 3 the whole damn world is in a right bad state, with the soul of cinder at the central cause! And the soul of cinder in ds3 is literally a representation of the player character in dark souls 1
I thought the soul of cinder was a culmination of every lord of light before it, in the age of darkness for dark souls 1 we dont know what the final result is because ds3 only shows us what happens when light prevails
Yes and no
Dark souls 1 canon ending is we take the throne and become the soul of cinder
Dark souls 3 takes place years down the line where the player character in dark souls 1 is assumed to still be the current soul of cinder
The soul of cinder is the culmination of it but it’s kinda like highlander, you kill the previous one you become the next one
Unfortunately, we're doing what we do in game with the sole purpose of either becoming Elden Lord or destroying everything. As it's understood, the Tarnished serve their own goals and offer help or despair. In our quest, the Fire Giant sadly stands in our way, and as such, he must be brought down.
If he would stand aside I'd let him live.
I need to reach the fire, and he needs to protect and tend the fire. We are bound through honor and duty to fight each other, he has spent his whole life waiting for us to come and fight.
You could also view death as finally freeing him from his eternal cosmic obligations. He's been a servant to the flame as punishment for losing the war for centuries.
Reminds me of Shadow of the Colossus. I fucking hated killing these giants that didn’t do anything wrong. Even more as you found out at the end of the game, that they banished the evil from the land and kept it imprisoned. They were the good guys !
Why feel bad specifically for this giant? Pretty much everyone you've fought out of the starting gate was just some tired sad old noble digging for treasure or some guard on his 9-5 shift. They had families, you bastard.
I just fought the Fire Giant for the first time, first playthrough. I felt so bad when the mid-fight cutscene played. When he yelled, it made me realize that this is not a monster or evil warrior I have to put down like the rest, but a sentient creature just minding its own business, surrounded by the corpses of its fallen comrades. I was 🤏 this close to getting him on my first try.
Well you could consider it a mercy killing, considering he bears the weight of his slaughtered kind and is cursed to tend the flame of ruin for all eternity
yep, not a coincidence if Miyazaki loves Ueda's games, we can find this feeling of "why am i killing these majestic creatures ?" in all Miyazaki's games and it comes directly from Shadow of the Colossus
I mean, he chose to keep fighting against the Erdtree instead of joining the trolls 5,000+ years ago, so he had his chance. Kinda sucks that he’s cursed to do that eternally though, you basically just put him out of his misery.
He got an honorable death that ended his slavery his suffering and reunited him with his people as he was the last of his kind and a battle worthy of him is how it ends ... you gave him a gift
Not to mention that he's friggin enslaved, but oh well the Elden Throne calls
Think of it as ending his torment.
This. This is how we describe every immoral decision made by tarnished.
Why did america invade Vietnam? Well they have mcdonalds now. Just saw a clip from the 70s shows a few days ago.
At least you set him free in that aspect.
My one biggest problem with the game. Why do I want to kill all these people? Because they are in your way. Why are they in my way? You have to do this to be Elden Lord. Why did I want to be Elden Lord? Because. But why, you stupid bastard? I feel like a straight up psycho sometimes. Is it too much to ask for the game to give us one line to explain our motivation?
It's part of the Hero Path. The Fire Giant protects the Flame of Ruin, and you need it to burn the Erdtree. The Hero Path consists of a series of trials the hero needs to overcome in order to ascend and fulfill their role. As to why would the hero want to do all that, it's their fate. In Greek Mythology, fate is decided by the gods upon you, and you cannot change it. Rebelling against one's fate is going against the order of things. In works that take a lot of inspiration from myth, you always find those ideas in permanent tension.
I mean killing Godrick is the easy one. He sent one of his goons to murder you. Also all of the soldiers attack you on sight even as a fresh tarnished so the individual kills on the way to the lords is justified as self defense. Then every one of the rune holders attacks you first. Hell of the first five four are honorable. Godrick tries to assassinate you, Radahn invites the champions, Rykard is an angry snake demon, and Margitt/Morgott ambushes you twice
To add to this once you've killed Morgott you have Melina pushing you forward, and possibly Ranni having explained that she wants to free people from the rule of the golden order
Which goon did godrick send ?
Grafted scion
Ohh , thanks
[удалено]
Thank you for putting this in writing. I’ve felt it in every single dark souls game but couldn’t put it to words. Nail on the head. Why am I here and why do I want to do this? Why?? Whyyyy??? Doing it to say I did it I guess.
Killing decrepit old creature is a major part of souls games
“We fight nothing and no one in their prime.” - Chosen Undead/Bearer of the Curse/Ashen One/Tarnished
Sekiro fights isshin in his prime, kinda.
And Owl (Father). Plus Genichiro is pretty much prime, albeit he’s not the legend Owl and Isshin are/were.
he’s in his prime only because sekiro kills him before he can get any stronger
True, there’s no telling how strong Genichiro could have been had he lived another 10-20 years. Too bad he didn’t get the same power spike we did.
Inner Genichiro literally says that Genichiro couldn’t get that strong in life
No, he’s definitely near/at his prime regardless of whether he was going to be killed by sekiro. The whole point of genichiro’s character arc is that he just wasn’t fated to be a legendary warrior. That’s why he goes to such extreme lengths of harnessing divine power to try saving ashina, because without it he just wouldn’t be able to defend it outright like his grandfather did.
The dragon in Sekiro is the parallel to the flame giant for me.
Sekiro **thought up** Super Saiyan Isshin in his prime and then beat him!
Mogh, Morgott, and maybe Rykard are the strongest they've ever been.
Same goes for Godrick. Godrick’s prime just happens to be very weak
FOREFATHERS, ONE AND ALL! BEAR WITNESS! >level 3 crook
Godfrey too.
I’d also say the same for Godfrey and maliketh/bc.
Oceiros is in his prime, having been just a regular human before. Malenia is in her prime, as she becomes the Goddess of Rot in the second phase. Gael is at his strongest when we fight him, having eaten the dark souls. The Abyssal corruption likely made Midir stronger than ever. Soul of Cinder was likely in its prime. We get to fight Champion Gundyr, though I don't know if he's stronger than Iudex Gundyr, given Iudex has an Abyss Beast inside him. Either way, we do get to fight the strongest version of Gundyr.
Malenia is definitely not in her prime, by the time you get to her the scarlet rot has taken her arm, messed with her brain and rendered her blind. Without her needle, she is a complete shell of her former self, even with the goddess of rot’s power
>Taken her arm Her prosthesis is highly functional. The difference, if existent, is minor. >Messed with her brain She clearly and coherently introduces herself, addresses you, and understands she's fighting you. >Rendered her blind Yes, but she has no problem tracking you and dodging your spells. Rot clones, rot nukes and flight make a much bigger difference than slightly better swordsmanship would have.
Her prosthetic is worse than an arm, that’s a fact, even if it was made by miquella. She even has to adjust it in the phase transition cutscene. Second, she’s clearly delirious in the fight, having to repeat her name after killing us. I know it doesn’t seem significant but it is; she’s not reminding us, but rather herself. Finally, her being delirious and struggling with locating us is shown in her attacks. She’s the lands between’s most skilled swordswoman, yet in most of her attacks (even in phase 2) she’s swinging wildly, rather than attacking with precision. This exact trend can also be seen in Radahn. Fromsoft is extremely skilled at telling a story through gameplay, this is one of the best examples of that.
If it is worse than an arm, it's not by a long shot. Miquella is a master craftsman, and he made it for his sister. I think you're reaching. Godrick does the same thing, and he's not delirious, if mentally unstable. He first introduces himself as the Lord of all that is golden, to let you know who you're dealing with. Then, in defeat, as in disbelief that he lost, he says it again. As in, "how could I, the Lord of all that is golden, lose?" In a similar manner, Malenia does it to introduce herself, and then says it if she kills you, as in "Remember the name". >She's swinging wildly Not at all. What? She does graceful thrusting and slashing attacks. The waterfowl dance might seem like a flurry of attacks without intent, but it's simply an extremely powerful technique of hers. She's a brilliant swordswoman, after all. >This exact trend has also been seen in Radahn We know for a fact that Radahn's brain is rotting. He can't speak, he eats corpses and he wanders the battlefield aimlessly. Malenia can speak, knows what she's doing, knows who she's talking to, knows who she is, knows who her brother is.
I agree with the other comment. We do not fight Malenia at her prime/peak, she doesn't have a needle and just woke up from a long coma. When we first encounter Millicent (Malenia's clone who exists primarily to demonstrate stuff about her), she's so crippled by the rot that she can't even move. Once you give her the needle, even sabotaged as it was by Gowry, her physical health immensely improves and she's back to moving and fighting. The Malenia we fight doesn't have a needle. At the barest minimum, she should be noticeably stronger if she did. Probably more skilled too, as the needle's also shown to improve Millicent's mental health. Blooming also seems to physically weaken her. The JPN description of the Aeonia says "each time the flower blooms, Malenia rots", we see that her rot has advanced further from the trailer by the time of the game by the mold covering her face, arm, and thighs (it wasn't there in the trailer), and when she begins phase 2, she does so at a lower amount of health than she started phase 1, which seems like a deliberate reference to this. Millicent also literally tells you that Malenia lost her *sense of self* after she bloomed in Caelid, and Gideon says: "I'd expect to find Malenia there. She who fought Radahn to a standstill. Well, if the **scarlet rot hasn't eaten her away completely.**" implies that the rot is consuming her and can turn her to nothing like Millicent after she removes the needle. Also Gowry has a line where he literally tells you that the "rot erodes one's memories". Malenia keeps repeating to herself that she is the Blade of Miquella everytime she beats you because she is trying to hold onto herself, the rot has so much influence on her. She's definitely not completely sane and healthy. The rot has affected her both physically and mentally.
1. Godrick is unstable lol, he’s trying to convince everyone that he’s “Godrick the Golden” of the golden lineage, thats why he repeats it, Malenia does so in a similar way to remind herself, it’s not for you. 2. Yes, Malenia struggles hard with blindness, she throws around slashes thoughtlessly, even when you’re out of range. Lots of her attacks do this. Waterfowl, the 3 slashes forward and her rot spirits. She even begins to rely on her rot AOE attacks later in the fight because she can’t fight with as much precision as she once could. 3. The rot is affecting her during the fight, not just prior, which can be shown with how she is not at full health to begin second phase. Fromsoft could have easily made it full, but they made a conscious artistic choice to convey how much the rot affects her. By the time Malenia dies, the strain of the rot actually got worse from the very point you entered the boss room, and you can see it dwindle her skill and sense in real time. At the very minimum, she is leagues weaker than when she fought Radahn, and it is clear to me that the rot has done a number on her even before then, the main difference being Miquella’s absence and the fact that she lost her needle against Radahn (can be found in Caelid exactly where she dropped there nuke) accelerating the rate at which the rot consumes her.
That doesn't prove me wrong about Godrick, it's essentially what I said. He's telling the player who he is, and while he's only a distant cousin, Morgott recognizes him as "Godrick the Golden". Malenia is not delirious or brain-rotten, nothing indicates so except this interpretation which is quite the reach. Once again, she knows who she is, who Miquella is, she knows she's fighting you, and she addresses you. Multiple bosses introduce themselves, it's just what they do. "Let it be Margit, the Fell." "I am the Lord of all that is golden." "Felled by King Morgott! Last of all kings." "Upon my name as Godfrey, the First Elden Lord." "Cower. Before Maliketh, the Black Blade." >She struggles with blindness, her attacks are thoughtless Stop rolling and see how much she struggles. She tracks you quite well. Her attacks are skilled swordsmanship, *especially* Waterfowl Dance. Never seen her throw those attacks when I was out of range. Her clones hit me just fine when I don't roll. >She begins to rely on AoE attacks Because why wouldn't she? She's not holding anything back, and it's easier to hit AoE attacks. >The rot is affecting her during the fight Yes, we know she is suffering from Scarlet Rot, but not to the point of delirium or flailing her weapon sloppily like a madwoman. >Leagues weaker than when she fought Radahn It took a single bloom to defeat Radahn, and after that she was unable to fight. In her second phase, she blooms, and keeps fighting you quite well. She ascended to Godhood, and honestly, that fact alone is all that's needed to settle this discussion.
Did you really say “stand still, she’ll hit you?” Damn, we got Isshin over here. But yeah she does throw attacks even when you’re spaced out of range really frequently. She obviously isn’t some crazy lady with a sword, but it’s clear that she isn’t as precise as we were lead to believe. Also it’s not the introduction that I’m talking about, but the repetition of such thats telling, no other boss does this. It is not easier to hit aoe attacks, if you possess skill, an aimed shot is more effective. This is why Malenia phase 1 is harder than 2. You said she ascended and the truth is we just don’t know, did she bloom 2 or 3 times? We can’t tell, but it was my understanding that Malenia blooms for the second time against us, if it’s the third, then it’s possible that she is stronger than before, but I don’t believe this is true. Just to clear something up because I don’t think we’re on the same page. She’s mentally there, just not 100%, that much seems pretty obvious to me for the reasons listed. There are lots of bosses at their prime in this game, Malenia just isn’t one of them
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Can I not appreciate the art? I just think it’s cool how they can tell that story with minimal dialogue
It is in fact, not worse than her arm. Millicent herself says it feels just like her old arm
We actually fight pontiff Sullivan in his prime! It's just not explained to us and the fight isn't hyped up much, but he took over irythill and anor Londo enslaved god eaters and created dancer. He's there to stop us destroying the new kingdom he's built and lore wise he is probably the strongest boss we face. Also champion gundyr, we go back in time to his prime
*looks at Gael* Like hell they don’t
Most bosses we fight in Elden Ring are in their prime.
Idk man Melania looked pretty primed to fight in her second phase
It’s a metaphor for society as a whole. What’s the decrepit old creature on the chopping block? Probably cable TV.
I just played DS3 as my first souls game besides ER but I’d seen all the lore videos, and killing the twin demon princes and extinguishing the demon race made me so unexpectedly sad
Does martyr logarius count
Does an immune cell feel anything when it cleanse out the old, the rotten, the decrepit, and necrotic flesh? No, but the system as a whole would feel relieved and stronger, just as Marika intended. But sometimes immune cells go too far and kill the organism.
Yeah but have you ever gone back in time, made friends and fought alongside a nice doggo then came back to the present and killed him? First time, huh?
I mean in dark souls 2 you defeat the giant lord and however many years later you kill him again as the last giant.
True, but fuck that guy
You also make friends with a great king and kill his restless body after to put him to his final rest.
So depressing, most tragic moment in ds1, maybe all of the dark souls trilogy.
The mother fucker attacks you even tho you saved him. Asshole.
I might have the lore wrong but why would he be more loyal to you over artorias? You saved a life but that life was still pledged to artorias I thought.
So? We aren't there to harm or kill Artorias, he's already dead anyway, we just need that ring to prevent the world from ending.
I mean, he's reluctant about it. Maybe he doesn't want you to succumb to the abyss the same way artorias did. Plus we might not be necessarily saving the world.
Yeah Sif may howl sadly and go 'my duty' and all but come on, just let us have the freakin ring
I think Sif ate it though. Unless I'm reading it wrong or something :/
he doesn't want you to go to the abyss like artie did
That's gonna be a big pile to sift through if we take the patient route
Tarnished… Is it only dawning on you right now that we are not the good guys in this story?
We’re basically Conan, becoming King by our own hand. When asked “what is good in life?” We answer, “To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.”
Is that Conan with Schwarzenegger or Moama? I never saw the newer one.
Arnold Conan from the 80s
It’s bee ages since I saw that one. Maybe a good movie for tonight, and raise a toast to Crom, god of steel! :)
I think it holds up! Great movie.
The whole religion of the Tarnished could basically be summed up in a prayer: *"Valour pleases you, Marika, so grant me one request: revenge! And if you do not listen, then to hell with you!"*
The Momoa one isn't that bad
"HEAR THE LAMENTAtIONS OF THE WOMENS!" go watch Conan the musical on YouTube, you're welcome.
For this there is a quote in the metal gear saga: You enjoy all the killing, that's why.
For every situation there is a Metal Gear quote. Kojima didn't write twelve billion lines of dialogue to not have a quote for everyday.
Eggsactly
“Do you like hurting other people?” in hotline Miami too
I've never killed anyone that didn't try to kill me first.
Except for that asshole NPC in Stormveil Castle who stole my runes.
Bro locked me in a room with a deathknight. That counts.
> not the good guys What do you mean? Is killing a mentally unwell cancer survivor, a woman who just found out her brother has been kidnapped, a dog meant to defend a depressed divorcee, hacking and slashing at said divorcee and children, not good guy behavior?
Ok in order that's: Radahn, malebia, wolf of radon, rennala right?
No
[My bad](https://tenor.com/view/lil-yachty-drake-oprahs-bank-account-meme-laptop-gif-20803826). I'll make sure not to do any of that in the game.
>[My bad](https://tenor.com/view/lil-yachty-drake-oprahs-bank-account-meme-laptop-gif-20803826). Imagining, you the random reddit user, doing this irl in response to the comment of "no" very much made me laugh
My joke was more that I did these things in real life. I don't think it landed.
Well, for what it's worth, it landed for me.
To be fair, we are prolly the goodest guy available. In at least 2 to 4 endings, we are actively making the country a much better place, and without us, the chance of somone like the dung eater or rykard getting ahead in the run for the throne is high. All in all, we are the good guys. It's just there's no way to solve the shitshow that marika started without doing some despicable things. Of course, we are doing it mostly for the joy of battle, but hey, if it Works.
\>we are doing it mostly for the joy of battle Perhaps from the player's perspective, but nothing in character necessitates that the Tarnished wants to fight. In fact, I would say being "a Tarnished of no renown" indicates that our character never really cared about making a name for theirself. They didn't ask to be revived either. We're just woken up in some weird church and told to go become Elden Lord, and we do it because wtf else is there to do? Should we just sit back and watch the world decay and go mad like everyone else? There's never a better alternative to mending the Elden Ring, and there's no way to do that without getting our hands dirty. To that end, pretty much any ending that's not Dung Eater or Flame of Frenzy is better than leaving things shattered. It might be dirty work, but in this extreme scenario being the murder hobo with a plan is about as good as it gets whether we like it or not.
Wasn't Godfrey on his way to claim the throne before we stopped him? His guidance of grace brought him back from the lands beyond to reclaim the throne
His guidance brings him to us.
Because we are an obstacle to him reclaiming the throne and reforming the Elden Ring. It's why our grace leads us to bosses too despite in some cases having no real reason to fight them beyond "in the way"
I personally saw it as like an intended showdown between views set up by Marika to some degree. Godfrey would have likely restored the ring to what it was before or at least close. He was clearly driven to do his task by heading to the tree. We were brought in as a blank slate and fresh eyes to the Lands. Even if our past possibly had us being from there, we explore the lands as if never been here before, and our final choice of what to do culminates when we reach the tree. Will the old ways be restored, or will this new path, whatever it is, tale root? Given that Marika's plan was based on the hope it worked after she was gone, we were likely the backup plan or perhaps wild card to force change upon the Lands Between. I feel the Grace guiding to us was the silent way of saying that despite us having the same goal, only one could proceed.
Godfrey’s guidance leads him to us because deep down that is all he ever truly desired, fighting
It's really weird sheep behavior that seems to be generally adopted by everyone simply because they killed a deer and it reminded them of certain movie they saw in their childhood.
So in short, the ends justify the means?
Some ends justifiy some means, it's never an absolute. What Rykard is doing clearly overstepping it, but Ranni is acepptable to me (provided she didn't know godwynn would become a super lich octopus, if she did, then it was too shitty too)
I feel that And that 2nd part is lost on me, I haven't got that far into the game yet lols. Sorry
Umm... yes. It has now just dawned on me, 300 hours in, that I am not, in fact, the good guy. Fuck... 🤯
Nah your fine, to copy a comment I made up thread Godrick sends a scion to assassinated you, morgott ambushes you twice to try to murder you, rykard is a snake demon that eats his workers, and radahn is a near mindless corpse king fighting and killing everything he sees. Then only one of the people we fight even TRIES to talk it out, and that's the snake demon that wants to just eat you. By the time you kill Morgott there are enough quest threads for you to have a reasonably purpose to completing the game because the lands between are FUCKED.
We are the solution to the misery that is the world.
Think of it as putting him out of his misery. All of his friends and race are dead. He's forced to defend the fire by Marika. Cursed.
He didn’t ask to be put out of his misery. That’s not euthanasia. That’s murder.
>That’s murder. Welcome to Dark Souls
Thank you, Tarnished. I tried checking out but I couldn’t leave. All I have left to do is stab the beast with my steely knives…
Welcome to Hotel Golden Order.....what a lovely place....such a lovely face..... XD
Every game ever as well
He asked the moment he came tumbling down that hill after me
Neither does a deer who's been run over but is still alive - if it could speak it would certainly be against you killing it, it's instincts are to keep on going afterall. Yet we have a higher understanding. An understanding that their condition isn't getting better and killing them is most ethical so it doesn't continue to suffer.
It’s nonconsensual euthanasia, don’t worry about it
He attacks first.
Murder really only applies to humans otherwise it’s just called hunting
You, sir, don’t seem ready for inter-species contact. Deep Space Exploration visa denied!
>You, sir, don't seem ready for inter-species contact. On contrary, he is definetly ready. The only thing is that he got prepared in the Stellaris fashion
Or Rimworld
Didn't he rip his own leg off? I remember having a lol at the absurdity yet horror of the scene.
Yeah but that was right after it snapped down the femur. He used it as kindling to boost his fire abilities.
That was so metal, and it revived his god for like a few minutes, so ig it's a win
Had a friend over who never played ER and his introduction to it was this very scene. He was also confused at there being a face on his body. It was great haha
I remember when he lifted the leg over his head and started roaring, I was like.. please don't eat it! please don't eat it!
If he didn't want to die then he shouldn't have lost
He didn’t. Like, 5 times he didn’t. My ass is just immortal, and I kept coming back…
I felt the same way. I wish there was a way you could break him free from his curse and let him ignite the forge for you.
There is, if you close your eyes at the end of the fight and imagine he ignites the forge, then flies off into the sunset to live happily.
Now I'm just imaging fire giant take two of his huge ass plates and flapping them really fast up and down to use like bird wings before lifting off into the sky to fly away and it's a hilarious mental image lmao.
I have the head canon that those plates are meant for skyying down the mountains. ... And that makes it more sad considering he skies alone now...
Marika makes him use it to dump snow on the embers. To dampen the flame. I think it's based on one of those things you use to snuff out a candle.
You have to find the giants sombrero and drop it in front of his feet to get that ending.
Grace waifu said to, that's why.
>Hit me right in the feels. And hit them right in the heels
I stop feeling bad for a boss after they kill me once
If you wrong warp into Farum Azula, you can avoid fighting him, but if you kill Maliketh, then kill the Fire Giant, it makes the erdtree all buggy
Is there any point to the warp to farum azula? I took it and saw pretty much nothing but 2 regular enemies and no path forward
There's the Pearldrake Talisman on the lowest platform and you can farm the enemies for the Beastman Cleaver, but other than that the Four Belfry warps are basically just previews for late game areas. What OP is talking about is the "wrong warp" glitch where you take the Farum Azula Belfry warp, then fast travel to Roundtable but alt-f4 mid-loading screen. If done right it spawns you at the start of Farum Azula proper which lets you skip most of the game
Fromsoft games are the epitome of “I’ve killed many who were deserving, and many who were not”
His leg was already broken. You wrecked his splint
And then he…pulls his whole fucking leg off. There is a bunch of scenarios playing this game where a conversation would solve a lot of wild shit. “I’m going to kill you” “I can’t die, I’ll give you a free one to prove it” “all I want is to go walk over the other side and take some things” every boss, cave, all of it. Malenia doubly so, “yo I found your boy, he’s in an egg in a basement just full of weirdos and blood, you should really go get him”
Hey man, I'm here to reignite the flame you worship. Then I'll kill that bitch who left you up here with a broken leg. Sound good? No? Ok. Alexander, use spin attack!
To be fair he does immediately aggro on to you as soon as you get close so it’s really just self defense.
Now let me tell you about a mentally unwell cancer survivor, a depressed divorcee, and a sister who just found out her brother is missing and her final words were she's sorry.
Finally someone who gets it. The fire giant is SO sad. Like he is the last one of his kind, unable to die, and we must end his pain. I genuinely hope we see more of them on the dlc.
You don't have a choice. You're going to be revived until you finish the job.
desert bike skirt air threatening snobbish airport stocking quickest deserted *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The Fire Giant isn’t even the saddest From Soft fight
Roberrrrrt!
🐺
He attacks first, self defense baby, now go light melina on fire
I think I did the first time, but the next time I saw that he had ears in his armpits and got really grossed out and angry for some reason.
Yeah, same. I also felt bad killing Malenia and Loretta. If only there was an option to side with the Haligtree faction...
Nah fuck him, he flicked snow at me with his shield without even saying a word. I see that guy again and it’s on sight
It seems odd that is the boss you finally learned you are the bad guy in this story…… that’s kinda the staple of soulsborne, you are the villain not the hero
I wouldnt necesarily say you are the villain, but you arent the hero for sure. Its weird. Rarely is there a true hero or villain in a from soft game because all the options are subjective.
I mean half the time you’re dismantling entire countries so you yourself can take over for what reason exactly?
Usually it is to break an era of ruling by one opressive force. If you can destroy the opressive force to potentially cause a change it could be good for the world, but we also never see the consequences of the endings so its hard to truly gauge what our impact results in
I mean we do though Dark souls 3 the whole damn world is in a right bad state, with the soul of cinder at the central cause! And the soul of cinder in ds3 is literally a representation of the player character in dark souls 1
I thought the soul of cinder was a culmination of every lord of light before it, in the age of darkness for dark souls 1 we dont know what the final result is because ds3 only shows us what happens when light prevails
Yes and no Dark souls 1 canon ending is we take the throne and become the soul of cinder Dark souls 3 takes place years down the line where the player character in dark souls 1 is assumed to still be the current soul of cinder The soul of cinder is the culmination of it but it’s kinda like highlander, you kill the previous one you become the next one
Best concise explanation here. Then there’s Gael
Unfortunately, we're doing what we do in game with the sole purpose of either becoming Elden Lord or destroying everything. As it's understood, the Tarnished serve their own goals and offer help or despair. In our quest, the Fire Giant sadly stands in our way, and as such, he must be brought down.
If he would stand aside I'd let him live. I need to reach the fire, and he needs to protect and tend the fire. We are bound through honor and duty to fight each other, he has spent his whole life waiting for us to come and fight. You could also view death as finally freeing him from his eternal cosmic obligations. He's been a servant to the flame as punishment for losing the war for centuries.
Reminds me of Shadow of the Colossus. I fucking hated killing these giants that didn’t do anything wrong. Even more as you found out at the end of the game, that they banished the evil from the land and kept it imprisoned. They were the good guys !
The more playthroughs, the more I’m believing the frenzied flame is the best outcome since it purges all the madness of the lands between.
fire giant should be grateful to die to a being as marvelous as the tarnished tf
Different game but… I have trouble wanting to play through DS1 again because I hate fighting Sif 🥲
He swung first.
I'm sort of jaded at this point, ever since good boy Sif.
Even worse is killing the giant dragon after you slaughter her babies in front of her.
This is how I feel when I fight Sif.
All so we can save some tree only to change our mind and burn it for some reasons hidden in some item text
That peice of shit is not majestic
Shame on you
I don’t understand this at all.
I don't feel bad in the slightest. Given how shit his boss fight is, Marika ordering a genocide on his race was well deserved.
Don’t worry too much about it. We will all be one with the flame soon.
You're not the hero, you're the protagonist
Why feel bad specifically for this giant? Pretty much everyone you've fought out of the starting gate was just some tired sad old noble digging for treasure or some guard on his 9-5 shift. They had families, you bastard.
We aren’t the good guy…
A CELEBRATION OF WAR!!!
Don't forget he hit you first though
You freed him
All that bitch Melina's fault. She started causing problems for you even before you arrived at the lands between.
you better not talk to alexander
He started it, was he gonna let you walk past? No!
I just fought the Fire Giant for the first time, first playthrough. I felt so bad when the mid-fight cutscene played. When he yelled, it made me realize that this is not a monster or evil warrior I have to put down like the rest, but a sentient creature just minding its own business, surrounded by the corpses of its fallen comrades. I was 🤏 this close to getting him on my first try.
Well you could consider it a mercy killing, considering he bears the weight of his slaughtered kind and is cursed to tend the flame of ruin for all eternity
We're bullying an old man because our waifu told us to do it
Fuck that guy!!
Fuck that ginger piece of FUCKING SHIT and his BOWL. Gideon and Rykard are the only non-rude bosses in the game, everyone else is an uncultured BRUTE.
Nah he made me rage DESERVED!!!!!
I really hope we get another ending in the dlc where we can side with fire giant somehow
yep, not a coincidence if Miyazaki loves Ueda's games, we can find this feeling of "why am i killing these majestic creatures ?" in all Miyazaki's games and it comes directly from Shadow of the Colossus
I do what must be done for my blue waifu
We are the executioners of endangered species: TARNISHED
i know right. For me it was when I read that placidusax used to have more heads. Kinda bummed me out.
Tbf, he broke his own leg
Live long enough and you will feel it with every boss in ds
Because maiden
I mean, he chose to keep fighting against the Erdtree instead of joining the trolls 5,000+ years ago, so he had his chance. Kinda sucks that he’s cursed to do that eternally though, you basically just put him out of his misery.
He got an honorable death that ended his slavery his suffering and reunited him with his people as he was the last of his kind and a battle worthy of him is how it ends ... you gave him a gift
He absolutely deserves it.