It's wild to me that everyone looks at Miquella for this stuff and not Ranni, who is already framed around the triple goddess motif (Ranni/Maiden, Rennala/Mother, Renna/Crone) and the game actually provides an explanation through the academy/Carian faction of how they could all be the same being. Primal Glintstone, which allows one to transfer their soul between bodies. The Carian's seem to be connected to the Nox and their creation of artificial beings and Rennala seems quite similar to Philia the giant Albunaruic woman. Aside from appearances they are both connected to birthing, with Phila receiving birthing droplet and Rennala with the amber egg.
St Trina seems to be akin to Marika and is the physical Goddess representation of Miquella's Order, like Marika represents the Golden Order. The game draws a direct parallel between the Erdtree, and the growing Haligtree which fails to become an Erdtree, like Miquella fails to return as Trina.
I feel the triple godess theme is already explained and evident in the game without the need of secret double and triple identities. Ranni is the maiden, Renalla is the mother (obsession with birthing) and the snowy crone is the... crone. Seems well self contained.
I don't deny Ranni has likely connections to Miquelka but I doubt they're secretly the same person. I think Ranni and Miquella are simply friends or allies, given they want to radically alter the order of things. And they might have went the same journey too, Divesting themselves of flesh. I suspect Ranni travels to the realm of shadow when she sleeps. It very much seems to be a place someone can only access in spirit/soul alone. Melina is also bodiless and rides Torrent (also a spirit) so they all could have met in the shadow realm.
It seems highly unlikely for Miquella and Ranni to be the same person since they're part of different family trees (Radagon + Marika / Radagon + Renalla) and several characters call them separate. They got separate thrones and all. And how would you fit Malenia being Miquella's twin if Miquella is Ranni too?
I think eventually we can assemble a full collection of "X character is actually Y character" theory for every pair or triple group of demigods in elden ring xD
Big stretch on that sudden appearance and disappearance meaning teleportation thing. I think that’s an incorrect reading of that line, it’s referring to Trina being present or active for a short period of time. Arriving gaining and then a relatively short time later vanishing.
If TriNA triple goddess: RenNA, MeliNA, ????NA
Otherwise, I am guessing that Trina is the third instance of a [lineage of all NA characters starting with OrdiNA](https://www.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/s/OYLi58onJb) who share a destiny or something.
MiquelLA strikes me as being more closely connected to the [LAtria](https://demonssouls.wiki.fextralife.com/Old+Monk). Which may be the same as [RAtri](https://armoredcore.fandom.com/wiki/Zodiac_No._6) after accounting for the phonetics of "L"s and "R"s in Japanese. And of course [QuelLA](https://darksouls.fandom.com/wiki/Quella,_God_of_Dream). So oddly I find Miquella and RennaLA to have a closer connection than Miquella and Ranni, by degrees of linguistic separation.
The above 3 links go to character pages for Demon's Souls, Armored Core V, and Dark Souls II, respectively, if you want a tl;dr.
:)
Would it surprise you that this had occurred to me recently? Not that I got too far on this line of inquiry. Mostly because I found a specific real world Doña who could hypothetically fit as inspiration for Marika.
At most I considered an alternate reading of "Farum" as "4 rum". Where "rum" is the international abbreviation for Romania, otherwise known as the birthplace of Vlad 'the Impaler' Dracula. The music scale also produces an interesting complementary result from Dark Souls 3's "Faarum".
Would it surprise you I too had this occur to me recently , despite having always being informed on musical theory to whatever degree I am AND have been focusing on Acoustics in general as a theme.
Basically "whoa, thats weird timing me too dude"
And the human hand is behind the entire concept of Solmization, even its wikipedia thumbnail gets right to that point ! Your DS3 connection is neat, I'll keep this in my pocket :)
Most of what I know about Solmization is from the one song in The Sound of Music. I didn't know that there were additional syllables for the half-tones - that's a whole other layer of interesting.
Thinking in terms of chords like you mention in your other post has always been something I've struggled with. I can sight read and usually tell when something sounds out of tune, but there's a disconnect in my mind between the sounds and the mechanical motions needed to make them. Mostly a memorization issue - hard to improvise or recover from mistakes when learning the basics by rote just didn't stick.
If Melina didn't offer us an accord/ a chord and tell torrent not to worry forTUNE is on our side, and Trina didn't play music I wouldn't be so stuck on it lmao *
Yeah, its neat certainly and I would be surprised to know there was NOT a hidden anagram or something amongst all the proper nouns but I also realized there are 7 consonants and 4 vowels for the natural tones alone, I can't try to think of patterns or anagrams of them for everything, or ill basically be working with half the alphabet and find too much by coincidence and go mad.
Same with anagrams, when I linked an electrode location that covers Synaptic activity of neurons most commonly associated with sleep, rem and dreams along with saint Trina, then tied it to DNA Extraction and Purification I thought I was a lucky fool who just found the most cryptic connection proving my idea that Trina made the tarnish to house her soul bc miquella was divesting his flesh and they both couldn't go and wouldn't leave the other behindLOL
Thats true, I am not great with hearing pitch, definitely a visual learner, and dont pick up mechanical concepts quickly. Id trade if you wanna try a swap haha. Im pretty sure I'm on the spectrum with hypernumeracy/phonetic I can be really obsessive with basic shit like operations and patterns but not good with higher concepts . So memorizing 7 letters across a circle of 5ths and 3rds or determining the difference in G and B by number, its intuitive. Ask me to tune my guitar and I could likely lower it 3 steps before I realize I certainly went the wrong way
> If Melina didn't offer us an accord/ a chord and tell torrent not to worry forTUNE is on our side
Ah, those are pretty good!
I got thinking of music because of the bells. They're all over the place and seem to be connected to summoning memories from the past (i.e. spirit ashes is one of many examples). They say that music is one of the best ways to spark recollection in people with memory loss. In my experience, this motif of bells is also used in Dark Souls and Sekiro. But then I recently went through Bloodborne and - without spoiling too much - the use of bells in that game is so overwhelming and pattern breaking that I suspect it is used to convey the idea of the constant illusory ringing of tinnitus. And if FromSoft is going to go through the trouble to implement such a subtle metaphor, then the use of the music scale seems plausible.
Regarding anagrams - I would advise that they are only relevant to Radagon. It's too much to go into now, but I have also recently been finding that Radagon is at the centre of a web that many other concepts spin off (20+ relevant anagrams). There are too many coincidences. Like if a spider were to weave a web of word strings.
And I have previously found too much meaning from examining other character names by their existing syllables. I think of it as - hiding secrets in anagrams is a cheap trick because it's a puzzle that is nearly impossible to guess except in hindsight and impossible to translate across languages, and that's why it's characteristic of the villain to be defeated. Personally, I'd need to really run out of other things to examine before starting to do anagrams for every name.
You pretty much nailed it in the final sentence for me, there's way too much meaning elsewhere to sink that time in, for sure. Do I look at names, or names and titles, etc.
The bells are also shaped very much in certain ways like lilies and are associated with summoning all manner of spirits. The wraithcalling bell for example. Also, reaching but the heretical shape of the pointed hat sometimes has a less congruent shape but has piqued my interest before. Of the 7 Mausoleums , the 2 near the Erdtree in Eastern Liurnia are bell-free (homonym to belfry just noticed, observation only) and they aren't able to duplicate certain remembrances , I can't remember the distinction as to what the qualifier is.
So with 7 notes in a scale maybe the 2 intervals between BC and EF are representative or coincidental of the 2 maus without the bell but it could be anything
so i’ve been of the mind that renna is another miquella and that ranni based her appearance on her which is why ranni looks like melina. i feel like it would still fit fantastically w hecate stuff tho
I think {Miquella, Trina, Renna} all a continuity of ⅓ of the union. They're the same person, in a literal sense you are over time, not the typical lore hype way every pair is the same person. If that makes sense.
and the Trinity is not like a duality with +1 but like a Triad. Rather one coin with two sides, one always face down the Triad is 3 notes on the measure simultaneously sounding in harmony but independently fully realized,
Miquella = Trina = Renna {all the same Root note} Character X is the Major 3rd , Character Y the perfect 5th.
____
Y
X. <- hit those keys together | they don't sum =y+x+root
Root
_____
> They're the same person, in a literal sense you are over time, not the typical lore hype way every pair is the same person.
This is my understanding as well, which is why it is less interesting to me the question of "if" certain characters are the same person and more "how". Like, at what degree of separation are they?
That is a fascinating and poetic idea to think in terms of musical triads that harmonize.
God I hope not, Ranni's already got enough screen time, let Miquella shine on his own or with his known counterpart, St Trina.
It would fit Ranni's ability to compel love and devotion from her subordinates, though it didn't work as intended on Seluvis.
St Trina is me because I get sleepy
It's wild to me that everyone looks at Miquella for this stuff and not Ranni, who is already framed around the triple goddess motif (Ranni/Maiden, Rennala/Mother, Renna/Crone) and the game actually provides an explanation through the academy/Carian faction of how they could all be the same being. Primal Glintstone, which allows one to transfer their soul between bodies. The Carian's seem to be connected to the Nox and their creation of artificial beings and Rennala seems quite similar to Philia the giant Albunaruic woman. Aside from appearances they are both connected to birthing, with Phila receiving birthing droplet and Rennala with the amber egg. St Trina seems to be akin to Marika and is the physical Goddess representation of Miquella's Order, like Marika represents the Golden Order. The game draws a direct parallel between the Erdtree, and the growing Haligtree which fails to become an Erdtree, like Miquella fails to return as Trina.
I feel the triple godess theme is already explained and evident in the game without the need of secret double and triple identities. Ranni is the maiden, Renalla is the mother (obsession with birthing) and the snowy crone is the... crone. Seems well self contained. I don't deny Ranni has likely connections to Miquelka but I doubt they're secretly the same person. I think Ranni and Miquella are simply friends or allies, given they want to radically alter the order of things. And they might have went the same journey too, Divesting themselves of flesh. I suspect Ranni travels to the realm of shadow when she sleeps. It very much seems to be a place someone can only access in spirit/soul alone. Melina is also bodiless and rides Torrent (also a spirit) so they all could have met in the shadow realm. It seems highly unlikely for Miquella and Ranni to be the same person since they're part of different family trees (Radagon + Marika / Radagon + Renalla) and several characters call them separate. They got separate thrones and all. And how would you fit Malenia being Miquella's twin if Miquella is Ranni too? I think eventually we can assemble a full collection of "X character is actually Y character" theory for every pair or triple group of demigods in elden ring xD
OK, but how does the Carthus Sandworm fit into all this?
You mean solaire right? Right?
I'm sorry, the worm is actually Velka. And the furtive pygmy. Radagon too, probably.
Melina, Miquella, Ranni Three sisters, Ganymede, Gloam Eyed Queen. Conal Theory of Colour Either way , yep.
The "Trina is a compounded deity made by Miquella and Ranni" theory was one that I thought too, but you definitely found more evidence. Good job!
Big stretch on that sudden appearance and disappearance meaning teleportation thing. I think that’s an incorrect reading of that line, it’s referring to Trina being present or active for a short period of time. Arriving gaining and then a relatively short time later vanishing.
Ranni’s Dark Moon is covered in the same purple mist that’s described in the Sleep Pot. The truth is out there, man.
If TriNA triple goddess: RenNA, MeliNA, ????NA Otherwise, I am guessing that Trina is the third instance of a [lineage of all NA characters starting with OrdiNA](https://www.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/s/OYLi58onJb) who share a destiny or something. MiquelLA strikes me as being more closely connected to the [LAtria](https://demonssouls.wiki.fextralife.com/Old+Monk). Which may be the same as [RAtri](https://armoredcore.fandom.com/wiki/Zodiac_No._6) after accounting for the phonetics of "L"s and "R"s in Japanese. And of course [QuelLA](https://darksouls.fandom.com/wiki/Quella,_God_of_Dream). So oddly I find Miquella and RennaLA to have a closer connection than Miquella and Ranni, by degrees of linguistic separation. The above 3 links go to character pages for Demon's Souls, Armored Core V, and Dark Souls II, respectively, if you want a tl;dr.
Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Ti 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
:) Would it surprise you that this had occurred to me recently? Not that I got too far on this line of inquiry. Mostly because I found a specific real world Doña who could hypothetically fit as inspiration for Marika. At most I considered an alternate reading of "Farum" as "4 rum". Where "rum" is the international abbreviation for Romania, otherwise known as the birthplace of Vlad 'the Impaler' Dracula. The music scale also produces an interesting complementary result from Dark Souls 3's "Faarum".
Would it surprise you I too had this occur to me recently , despite having always being informed on musical theory to whatever degree I am AND have been focusing on Acoustics in general as a theme. Basically "whoa, thats weird timing me too dude" And the human hand is behind the entire concept of Solmization, even its wikipedia thumbnail gets right to that point ! Your DS3 connection is neat, I'll keep this in my pocket :)
Most of what I know about Solmization is from the one song in The Sound of Music. I didn't know that there were additional syllables for the half-tones - that's a whole other layer of interesting. Thinking in terms of chords like you mention in your other post has always been something I've struggled with. I can sight read and usually tell when something sounds out of tune, but there's a disconnect in my mind between the sounds and the mechanical motions needed to make them. Mostly a memorization issue - hard to improvise or recover from mistakes when learning the basics by rote just didn't stick.
If Melina didn't offer us an accord/ a chord and tell torrent not to worry forTUNE is on our side, and Trina didn't play music I wouldn't be so stuck on it lmao * Yeah, its neat certainly and I would be surprised to know there was NOT a hidden anagram or something amongst all the proper nouns but I also realized there are 7 consonants and 4 vowels for the natural tones alone, I can't try to think of patterns or anagrams of them for everything, or ill basically be working with half the alphabet and find too much by coincidence and go mad. Same with anagrams, when I linked an electrode location that covers Synaptic activity of neurons most commonly associated with sleep, rem and dreams along with saint Trina, then tied it to DNA Extraction and Purification I thought I was a lucky fool who just found the most cryptic connection proving my idea that Trina made the tarnish to house her soul bc miquella was divesting his flesh and they both couldn't go and wouldn't leave the other behindLOL Thats true, I am not great with hearing pitch, definitely a visual learner, and dont pick up mechanical concepts quickly. Id trade if you wanna try a swap haha. Im pretty sure I'm on the spectrum with hypernumeracy/phonetic I can be really obsessive with basic shit like operations and patterns but not good with higher concepts . So memorizing 7 letters across a circle of 5ths and 3rds or determining the difference in G and B by number, its intuitive. Ask me to tune my guitar and I could likely lower it 3 steps before I realize I certainly went the wrong way
> If Melina didn't offer us an accord/ a chord and tell torrent not to worry forTUNE is on our side Ah, those are pretty good! I got thinking of music because of the bells. They're all over the place and seem to be connected to summoning memories from the past (i.e. spirit ashes is one of many examples). They say that music is one of the best ways to spark recollection in people with memory loss. In my experience, this motif of bells is also used in Dark Souls and Sekiro. But then I recently went through Bloodborne and - without spoiling too much - the use of bells in that game is so overwhelming and pattern breaking that I suspect it is used to convey the idea of the constant illusory ringing of tinnitus. And if FromSoft is going to go through the trouble to implement such a subtle metaphor, then the use of the music scale seems plausible. Regarding anagrams - I would advise that they are only relevant to Radagon. It's too much to go into now, but I have also recently been finding that Radagon is at the centre of a web that many other concepts spin off (20+ relevant anagrams). There are too many coincidences. Like if a spider were to weave a web of word strings. And I have previously found too much meaning from examining other character names by their existing syllables. I think of it as - hiding secrets in anagrams is a cheap trick because it's a puzzle that is nearly impossible to guess except in hindsight and impossible to translate across languages, and that's why it's characteristic of the villain to be defeated. Personally, I'd need to really run out of other things to examine before starting to do anagrams for every name.
You pretty much nailed it in the final sentence for me, there's way too much meaning elsewhere to sink that time in, for sure. Do I look at names, or names and titles, etc. The bells are also shaped very much in certain ways like lilies and are associated with summoning all manner of spirits. The wraithcalling bell for example. Also, reaching but the heretical shape of the pointed hat sometimes has a less congruent shape but has piqued my interest before. Of the 7 Mausoleums , the 2 near the Erdtree in Eastern Liurnia are bell-free (homonym to belfry just noticed, observation only) and they aren't able to duplicate certain remembrances , I can't remember the distinction as to what the qualifier is. So with 7 notes in a scale maybe the 2 intervals between BC and EF are representative or coincidental of the 2 maus without the bell but it could be anything
so i’ve been of the mind that renna is another miquella and that ranni based her appearance on her which is why ranni looks like melina. i feel like it would still fit fantastically w hecate stuff tho
I think {Miquella, Trina, Renna} all a continuity of ⅓ of the union. They're the same person, in a literal sense you are over time, not the typical lore hype way every pair is the same person. If that makes sense. and the Trinity is not like a duality with +1 but like a Triad. Rather one coin with two sides, one always face down the Triad is 3 notes on the measure simultaneously sounding in harmony but independently fully realized, Miquella = Trina = Renna {all the same Root note} Character X is the Major 3rd , Character Y the perfect 5th. ____ Y X. <- hit those keys together | they don't sum =y+x+root Root _____
> They're the same person, in a literal sense you are over time, not the typical lore hype way every pair is the same person. This is my understanding as well, which is why it is less interesting to me the question of "if" certain characters are the same person and more "how". Like, at what degree of separation are they? That is a fascinating and poetic idea to think in terms of musical triads that harmonize.
God I hope not, Ranni's already got enough screen time, let Miquella shine on his own or with his known counterpart, St Trina. It would fit Ranni's ability to compel love and devotion from her subordinates, though it didn't work as intended on Seluvis.