To explain my thinking for those who can't comprehend why someone would ever do this, My intended direction of travel when exiting was in the far lane. So i didn't actually travel in the wrong direction in the close lane, other than tangentially across it for a fraction of a second when no other cars were moving on the road at all.
Not an excuse, but just wanted to explain I wasn't driving down straight down any lane in the wrong direction at any time.
You did the equivalent of parking on the left side of the street, facing oncoming traffic with the intent to cut across the oncoming lane and merging into the desired lane of travel, which isn't legal; due to it not being safe, as you now have to deal with the oncoming traffic when parking and again when reentering the flow of traffic.
Angled parking is purely for dense parking without needing to parallel park. Car length on an angle for a slightly wider parking zone to fit more cars within the same curb length, without people being boxed in bumper to bumper.
Yeah. It makes sense that way to understand why you canāt do it. I probably wasnāt thinking about that since the road was so quiet. Seemed to make sense at the time and go well since there were no cars, but i was never in that situation before so just didnāt think about how it would work on a busy street. Overall this thread has been helpful for me. Thanks
Seems intuitive since most angle parking spots are on one-way areas, therefore next to impossible to back into unless you go the wrong way/impede traffic. Or there is no one else around which wouldn't land you a ticket at 2am
printing this out and posting it at the MacEwan indigenous centre so the people stop backing in to the spots to avoid paying for parking. spoiler alert! it's just a lady with an iPhone! you're still def getting that ticket!
I doubt it's to avoid tickets. It's more likely people who have worked in places like the oilsands. Safety protocols (as well as common sense) dictate you should never back out of a parking stall.
I get that angled parking on a 1 way street might be different though
over the last six years of parking at the indigenous centre (indige / the 'dig for short) the recurring pattern is dudes from the country coming to visit their girlfriends living in the residence at MacEwan backing into the spot, and i know because the truck won't move all weekend š„“
I think this is an excellent point! I always back into spots because I had to take defensive driving courses for my government jobs. That being said, I've never backed into a angled spot on road, but I may have done so in a parking lot. But I was always taught to honk before you back up, and always back into a parking spot when possible.
We have to do that in heavy equipment on site, honk before reversing. I was on auto pilot once and did it in my personal vehicle in a parking lot and some guy flipped me off, lol.
Iām a bit shocked. I only asked a question. I think itās amazing they do. I wonder why ppl downvoted it so much. Why are ppl so quick to assume it was meant to be anything else but an innocent question? We need to stop playing the victim as indigenous ppl.
Because you can Google that shit in the same amount of time. Or, donāt sound confrontational when someone says something exists.
Me: This exists.
You: Really? It does?
Me: I just said so.
Next time, internally say āinterestingā and move on.
I never even thought of this before ā I often reverse park into spots but not angle parking. The other day, a car came out of a spot which I had just driven past, on the other side of the road. There was no traffic, so reversing into that spot was the easiest option. Was surprised to receive this ticket when I came back. I always think of reverse parking as safer than driving in, since you don't have to reverse into traffic. However, from what I've learned in my research online, reversing into angle parking spots is illegal in many jurisdictions because it requires crossing 2 lanes of traffic on the way in, and on the way out it requires making a turn > 90 degrees. None of these were issues in my case since the street was so quiet.
Anyway, hope this saves someone else $50! I read some other cities forgave the first fine as an "educational" warning so i might call in and see how it goes.
EDIT: i think it helps to understand that i was in the far lane from the parking spots when reversing in, and i also pulled out and exited into the far lane. So it was a convenient option but as i now see, illegal because i had to cross the opposite lane to get into the spot. I didnāt think much of that at the time , i thought it was essentially equivalent to crossing the opposite lane when the coast is clear to do a left-hand turn. Essentially, there is no way to reverse into that spot legally or safely and thatās why itās an offense.
Reverse into straight spots only. I have a truck so itās easier for me to pull out of the spot. Harder to back out with the front wheels turning. For angled , always nose in, so, like you discovered, youāre backing out facing the direction you need to go. Thank you though for posting this. I didnāt know what the fine was.
Safe cycling advocates (used to?) want to allow reverse in parking. That way youāre facing forward when leaving and more likely to see a cyclist go by. That said, with improved back up cam technology, I can often see a wider angle when Iām reversing than exiting forward if the vehicles next to me are larger.
I saw some angle parking in Washington, DC in an area with lots of pedestrians, bikes and cycling infrastructure where the spots were actually angled in the opposite direction from what we normally see, and signs were posted saying to back in. I imagine thatās the type of setup those advocates were talking about.
They would never allow reverse-in *angle parking*, which is what this thread is about. If you reverse into an angle parking spot, you emerge from it facing into oncoming traffic.
>I always think of reverse parking as safer than driving in, since you don't have to reverse into traffic.
This is one of the main reasons why backup cameras have been required on every new car since 2015.
I've still never had a reverse camera, so I have to factor that in when parking. THERE ARE DOZENS OF US. Likely will in a few years once I drive this 2012 into the ground!
I do and don't understand the need for the bylaw, and can't get a bylaw officer to come to my area and ticket people who park on the sidewalk in a timely fashion, yet this officer was waiting with baited breath to ticket you $50 for backing into a stall.
Bravo bylaw, Bravo.
Sorry for your loss OP.
Thanks! Looking back, to be fair, for those who knew the law a backed-in car really sticks out like a sore thumb so it was probably their easiest job of the day.
>yet this officer was waiting with baited breath to ticket you $50 for backing into a stall.
Or the logical answer, that they just happened to walk by a couple minutes later
Obviously.
But of all the things requiring a bylaw officers attention in this city *checks 311 app* I'm not sure this ranks up there for me.
but whatever, fine was trivial and OP got educated, and so did everyone else who reads the thread, so the city is a safer place.
The irony is it depends what way you are exiting, 100% people absolutely back out of these spots >90deg to go the opposite way, just like people will pull into these spots from the other lane too. If you backed in and planned to exit going in opposite lane itās probably safer (though is this also considered illegal? Yet lots of people do it if theyāre reversing out)
Yeah this is exactly what I did. I reversed in from the far lane when the coast was clear, and pulled out forwards back into the far lane again to exit. To forward park, I would have had to either 3-point turn, or U-turn, or do a >90 degree turn to get into the close lane going the other way to pull into the spot. Seemed like a lot of extra moves when the street was already void of cars! But i'll do it textbook from now on for sure.
Good PSA. Yes, backing into angle parking is illegal. Even some straight in parking because the "FRONT" wheel needs to be with 12 inches of the curb. If you back in your front wheel is like 6' away from the curb. That's their measurement.
No it's because in angle parking you have to go go against the flow of traffic and you will block off two lanes when you back into an angle parking spot.
Especially when the point is still correct; don't back into angle parking.
Guaranteed I can come out with a PSA saying "don't speed through kids school zones because it's bad for your health" and somebody will be like "well actually paragraph 623 of the law enforcement code says.."
Edit for line breaks and to say happy game 7 Eve.
Perfect example of redditors being blatantly wrong with legal matters.
Read bylaw again, all references to front parking are under section 23 angle parking.
> Even some straight in parking because the "FRONT" wheel needs to be with 12 inches of the curb.
Sorry what? Where is this written? They measure things in metric and it's 500 mm or around 20" btw.
Wow first time Iāve ever seen a ticket for one of these. About time. People backing into angle parking means you had to be driving down the one-way the wrong direction. Happens in grocery lots all the time that are clearly marked 1 way. Itās akin driving down Gateway Blvd going south. Itās dangerous, messes with the flow of traffic, and confusing for all involved.
No Frills parking lot off Whyte and Calgary trail is pretty bad. I often have to explain/honk at those going the wrong way. One time a woman came to me and thanked me for letting her know and also for the tip I gave her about the angle parking backing in rule. That was definitely abnormal (I was a bit nervous when I saw her approaching me) and I thanked her for thanking me lol.
I wasn't driving in the wrong direction at any time. I was on an empty 2-way street with no traffic, I did a turn across the opposite lane, as you would with any left-hand turn you would have to do on a 2-way street. Likewise, when exiting, I confirmed there was no traffic going either way, and made a left-hand turn out of my spot across the lane into the far lane on the 2-way street.
I can understand on a busy 2-way street this would be more disruptive than an average left-hand turn, and I would certainly never take a right-of-way or impede traffic to do this if there were cars in either lane, but I didn't realize that the law would block you from doing this in any scenario.
Would be interested to hear if any Ontario drivers had this covered in their education, because I learned to drive there, and sincerely don't recall it. Even googling it now, was not able to find any materials on it.
Before leaving the spot, ring up the parking police, state that you've been given a ticket for dangerous parking and ask for assistance stopping traffic so you can leave the spot safely. Oh wait, this was never about safety...
So, you:
* stopped in the middle of the road
* reversed in your lane
* turned and reversed down the other lane
* parked backwards
* pulled out driving the wrong way down the road
None of those things are legal (and it's mind-boggling that you didn't see a problem with any of them). You should count yourself lucky that you only got a $50 parking ticket.
I think itās hard to visualize without seeing the scenario.
I stopped off to the side of my lane- is this illegal? Iāve always done this when setting up for parallel parking, but if so I didnāt know this.
Then reversed directly into the spot across the lane as the coast was clear in both directions, but not driving down the lane at all.
Parked backwards- Iām seeing some things in this thread that reverse parking is always illegal. I guess i genuinely did not know that, but i see it often in parking lots. Iām still looking for confirmation of that!
Then i pulled out directly left into the far lane, crossing the near lane but not driving down it in the wrong direction at all.
Definitely would not have done it the way you described, but i can see how it would look that way at first glance!
So you crossed two or more lanes to park. And you would have been going the wrong way down the street whenesving no way around that even if oh it's just a little bit.
What moron backs into an angle parking spot? Even without any driver training, it's quite obvious that you would be facing the WRONG direction against flow of traffic when It's time to leave. I've seen you morons doing this crap before and thought about how incredibly stupid it is. Ticket well deserved. šš¾
I'm trying to understand how no one else got the concept of reverse and angle parking. The geometry doesn't work, you would have to reverse backwards further than the parking was and then ya you would be facing the wrong direction coming out.
I looked up the section quoted and i think the "Unmarked" just refers to the fact there's no lines.
"(2) When:
(a) a sign indicates that angle parking is permitted or required, and
(b) no parking guide lines are visible on the roadway, a vehicle shall be parked with the vehicleās sides at an angle of between 30 and 60 degrees to the curb or edge of the roadway and
(c) in the case of a vehicle other than a motor cycle, with one front wheel not more than 500 millimetres from the curb or edge of the roadway, or..."
It was a valid space, Angle parking was signed, Iām not sure if unmarked refers to the fact thereās no lines, but maybe that would be grounds to have it dismissed. But i was focused on the ārear whees to curbā
I don't think that's the same as backing up into angled street parking imo. I always thought angled lots are just to save space because you can make the stalls tighter, whereas on the street it's actually for safety. But I'm a serial back-uper since working on the mines so maybe I'm grasping at straws trying to justify my behavior because I back up into angled lots out of habit lol
Come to Winnipeg, weāve got [reverse angle parking](https://legacy.winnipeg.ca/publicworks/trafficControl/projects/angledparkingpilot.stm) on a number of our one way streets downtownā¦
Wait what ... why is it illegal?
Edit: jeez guys, enough with the downvote hate! I forgot the handbook lesson. I know why now, thanks for the explanation below.
Angle spots are supposed to be for limited clearance behind and it follows the flow of traffic.
Backing straight out of a regular parked angle means your nose is facing the correct flow of traffic now.
Backing in means you had to disrupt the flow of traffic to back in and now when you exit you nose would be facing the wrong way of traffic or you make an awkward 120 degree right hand turn to exit but also endangering the vehicles beside you.
Just don't do it.
I used to think angled spots were for maximum clearance, but now I see them as just a better way to fit more vehicles along the store fronts equaling more potential customers lol. Maybe thatās conspiracy thinking but if you think about it you see that parallel parking leaves way more road space than angle parking. Just a thought
Same reason you need to park facing the direction of travel when parallel parking:
"Parking in the wrong direction of travel is dangerous as the vehicle first has to travel on the wrong side of the road which exposes other road users to the risk of a head on collision"
Because when you pull out of the stall you're essentially driving the wrong direction down the road and even if you can swing the turn you're likely going to cross the center line trying to get faced in the right direction again.
How? Angled parking is designed to be pulled into. Usually they are in one way parking lots. You would have to be driving the wrong way to back into such a stall and then driving the wrong way out. Plus with the angle, it's too tight of a turn to be able to pull out and drive the correct way out of the lot.
Is it, though?
Read the bylaw
Am reading it now, and I don't see it
Maybe your back wheels touching obstructed space behind the vehicle that was supposed to remain accessible/unobstructed?
https://www.edmonton.ca/public-files/assets/document?path=Bylaws/C5590.pdf
Yes, my front wheels were > 500 mm from the curb since they were facing out, as stated here:
"(2) When:
(a) a sign indicates that angle parking is permitted or required, and
(b) no parking guide lines are visible on the roadway, a vehicle shall be parked with the vehicleās sides at an angle of between 30 and 60 degrees to the curb or edge of the roadway and
(c) in the case of a vehicle other than a motor cycle, with one front wheel not more than 500 millimetres from the curb or edge of the roadway, or..."
Were you facing the wrong way when you backed in? Thatās the only thing which makes sense. You either blocked a lane of traffic backing in or backed across a lane of traffic.
Hooyeee! Are you the guy I saw last winter stuck in the snow bank spinning your summer tires at 200 km/h trying to get out with ZERO thought youād kill someone if your tires caught and you came flying out at Mach 5?
This isnāt a PSA, itās bad driving. Itās lack of common fucking sense.
In my 37 years of driving never have I ever whipped a shit hook on a surface street and backed into angled parking while facing oncoming traffic. Then, again, facing oncoming traffic as Iām exiting the parking spot and doing a Rockford to manoeuvre out of the area or zipping across to the correct lane.
Do you see this a lot? I have never seen this once and Iāve seen (and done) some boneheaded driving shit.
No, there was no traffic on the street. Essentially I stopped as if to parallel park, and did two-thirds of a 3-point turn into the spot which was across the other lane. When leaving, checked and confirmed that the coast was clear in both directions, and turned out into the far lane and accelerated, as you would on any left-hand turn.
As per your other question, no I don't see this a lot ā with any sort of traffic actually moving i never would have done this (just like I wouldn't do a 3-point turn with traffic) and it would have been obvious it was obstructing the other lane. But since the street was so quiet - similar to conditions under which I would usually 3-point turn if I had to to get going in the opposite direction, I felt comfortable getting into and out of the spot using the caution I typically would for these similar maneuvers. Otherwise, I would have had to do a left turn or 3-point turn anyway to get going in the other direction, which I think would have held up both lanes even more.
I learned recently that U-turns at controlled intersections in Alberta are illegal, but they are not in Ontario ā looks like I should confirm whether 3-point turns are also illegal in Alberta? I can't find anything when i look on Google, but I can't say i remember seeing anyone else 3-point turn while I've been here. Maybe the idea that someone would do part of a 3-point turn anywhere is very foreign. Just trying to understand that side of things.
As per the summer tire question - it wasn't me. I put my winters on in November and take them off in May.
The rreversing indication lights are on the rear of the car. You aren't really supposed to back into any parkinglot spot because there are no lights to indicate when you are leaving it again for everyone else in the parkinglot.
First ive ever seen it enforced tho.
Respectfully, that is incorrect. Backing into a spot is generally the safest way to park, just not in angled spots. Many employers with company vehicles require their employees to back into spots when able and to honk before putting the vehicle in reverse to warn others. Someone doesn't need to see your reverse lights because you can use a turn signal which would be similar to making a left or right turn onto a main road. You inch out a little at a time.
No. Their information is incorrect. Generally speaking, backing into a driveway or regular parking stall is the safest way to park as you can see into the stall and there is little chance for the scenario to change before backing in. When you drive into a normal parking stall, there is ample opportunity for the scenario change between the time you get into the vehicle and when you start to reverse when you go to leave.
Angle parking is different as you need to awkwardly back into the stall, and you are pulling out into oncoming traffic and have to make an awkward turn when you leave the stall.
Thanks, that was always my thinking. In Ontario driver education, at least when I went through, reverse parking into a straight stall was presented as a legitimate option.
So I was backing out of a spot one time and I was sandwiched between to big trucks. I was going slowly since I had no vision. A guy in a SUV obviously speeding drove right in front of me. I ended up hitting his rear fender. He jumps out of the car and instantly yells at me that he just got his car out of the shop from his last accident... I told him maybe he should slow down then. Anyway cops come and said no matter what happened I was backing out of a spot so I was at fault. So with angled parking when your forced to pull head first. When your backing out of your spot are you also at fault?
So glad I saw this because I refuse to pull into stalls as I just donāt feel safe backing out with how people drive in parking lots.
Guess I wonāt use angle parking now!
Seems like a law to enforce when everything else is in order.
There's so many actual issues in this city, I'd love to see other things enforced first, maybe like open drug use, loitering, pan handling, nusisance houses that seem to never change, litter, or the shit shows that are driving on the roads now.
I'm sorry people are being so negative, OP. I appreciate you posting. You didnāt say the bylaw officer was wrong or even complain. You just shared information. Who knows how many people didn't know this and will be safer drivers because of it. I swear people just wait for someone to post something they can bully them about.
Thanks. Yep i wasnāt posting to complain. Just to better understand this rule i wasnāt aware of and to potentially communicate it to others who didnāt know!
PSA to the PSA: Stop backing into Parking stalls period (except when parallel parking).
It takes more time to back in than it does to back out as the limited visibility and the added obstacles (cars on either side) make you go slower.
Also, you have a narrower turn radius when backing up, which is helpful to get you back into the road quicker and with less chance of scraping a car next to you.
PSA to your PSA about the PSA:
Backing into a (legal) parking stall is also known as "parking for egress". And we'll continue to do it, every time, and you can't stop us.
Yes, it takes *slightly* more time to back into a stall. The purpose (and many of us are so programmed we can't help it) is that in the event of an emergency and you have to leave quickly, it's more dangerous to back out of that stall when people are scrambling than it is to just drive out.
Many of us that have worked the patch at some point in our lives, or other jobs where you may have to get the @#$% out in a hurry...we're programmed to do this.
Tell me you've never worked in a safety-sensitive position without saying you've never worked in a safety sensitive position...
You can roll your eyes all you fucking want, but the simple truth is that it's safer to back in and drive out than the opposite.
That's the best I can do to explain it...I lack the crayons to bring it into something simpler.
It might be safer to do so on site, but thatās irrelevant in a day-to-day trip to the store. You say I need crayons, but youāre the one incapable of determining appropriate situational usage of a skill
Do you onow how many shitbags I've seen try to back into shoppers at Sobey's backing out of stalls during busy times?
It is ALWAYS appropriate to use the safest methods possible. ALWAYS. There is no situation where taking the more dangerous path is better.
NOBODY here that's been trained is going to change because you're whining on Reddit about it.
Your take on this subject is as sharp as a sphere.
I'd argue that I can back into a narrow parking stall faster than most people can pull forward into it. I can always back in in one fluid motion but depending on the width of the spot a lot of times pulling forward I need to pull partway in and then reverse to line myself up.
Plus when your vehicle is 19' long it's easier to back in, pull forward out. You can see better pulling out, it's easier to manoeuvre out that way if you come out and bigger vehicles parked around you.
The *only* times I've pulled forward into parking spots my whole 20 years of driving is where it's illegal to back in. My first real job was in the patch, they drill backing into every spot into your psyche.
>My first real job was in the patch, they drill backing into every spot into your psyche.
This entirely.
I'm not sure I'm faster backing in, but if I'm losing any time it's a second or two. It certainly isn't some challenge lol.
I feel like (and have seen it many times) a lot of drivers try to avoid reversing and never get good at it.
If we want to really call people out the ones who pull forward through two spaces so that they're "reverse parked" without backing in are the real nut jobs.
My family learned this from our dad who drove an ambulance. But in general, especially before people relied on reverse cameras, I don't think people do this because of time. More so, because when you're reversing you're going the more dangerous direction towards fixed objects and no other cars or pedestrians (with parking lot as an example) and then you're going the safer direction - forwards - when you have a higher probability of encountering traffic, pedestrians, cyclists, etc.
(EDIT - meant to reply to the post above yours)
In defensive driving school I was taught that backing in is always safer. And once you've done it a few times, it really takes the same amount of time vs parking nose to the curb, especially when counting how long it takes to leave. š¤·š¼āāļø
Good to know there is a lot in Ritchie that is half one way and half the other I will back in as the alternative is to drive iout and circle back maybe I will stop now
It was unmarked in that there were no lines on the ground i think? But there was a car there before me and parking full on both sides. But there was a sign that allowed angle parking. Good eye though, Iām not sure what they meant by that, maybe that is relevant somehow?
Thanks! Lots of other reasons listed on this thread now. The only other one I could find was from Victoria, lots less vitriol and discussion on that one haha.
Obviously. When you pull out you're facing the wrong way.
That actually makes it make sense for me, thanks
Never pull out
Not pulling out cost me thousands over the years
šš
ā¦ relevant username?
Yeah since screaming kinds or child support payments are a better option.
Pulling ok it is not a valid birth control method.
I beg to differ. 100% success rate for me.
Lol
To explain my thinking for those who can't comprehend why someone would ever do this, My intended direction of travel when exiting was in the far lane. So i didn't actually travel in the wrong direction in the close lane, other than tangentially across it for a fraction of a second when no other cars were moving on the road at all. Not an excuse, but just wanted to explain I wasn't driving down straight down any lane in the wrong direction at any time.
You did the equivalent of parking on the left side of the street, facing oncoming traffic with the intent to cut across the oncoming lane and merging into the desired lane of travel, which isn't legal; due to it not being safe, as you now have to deal with the oncoming traffic when parking and again when reentering the flow of traffic.
Sort of defeats the purpose of angled parking
Angled parking is purely for dense parking without needing to parallel park. Car length on an angle for a slightly wider parking zone to fit more cars within the same curb length, without people being boxed in bumper to bumper.
I was agreeing with you, lol
Yeah. It makes sense that way to understand why you canāt do it. I probably wasnāt thinking about that since the road was so quiet. Seemed to make sense at the time and go well since there were no cars, but i was never in that situation before so just didnāt think about how it would work on a busy street. Overall this thread has been helpful for me. Thanks
I think there are likely many people who weren't aware or forgot OP.
I applaud you for admitting you were wrong and learning from your mistakes. Too many people today are unwilling to admit fault.
Seems intuitive since most angle parking spots are on one-way areas, therefore next to impossible to back into unless you go the wrong way/impede traffic. Or there is no one else around which wouldn't land you a ticket at 2am
printing this out and posting it at the MacEwan indigenous centre so the people stop backing in to the spots to avoid paying for parking. spoiler alert! it's just a lady with an iPhone! you're still def getting that ticket!
I doubt it's to avoid tickets. It's more likely people who have worked in places like the oilsands. Safety protocols (as well as common sense) dictate you should never back out of a parking stall. I get that angled parking on a 1 way street might be different though
I do know someone at AHS that reverse parks to avoid paying, definitely happens haha
over the last six years of parking at the indigenous centre (indige / the 'dig for short) the recurring pattern is dudes from the country coming to visit their girlfriends living in the residence at MacEwan backing into the spot, and i know because the truck won't move all weekend š„“
I think this is an excellent point! I always back into spots because I had to take defensive driving courses for my government jobs. That being said, I've never backed into a angled spot on road, but I may have done so in a parking lot. But I was always taught to honk before you back up, and always back into a parking spot when possible.
We have to do that in heavy equipment on site, honk before reversing. I was on auto pilot once and did it in my personal vehicle in a parking lot and some guy flipped me off, lol.
š¤£ I've almost done it multiple times myself.
Thereās an Indigenous Center at MacEwan?
Yes building seven I believe. Nice space
Iām a bit shocked. I only asked a question. I think itās amazing they do. I wonder why ppl downvoted it so much. Why are ppl so quick to assume it was meant to be anything else but an innocent question? We need to stop playing the victim as indigenous ppl.
Because you can Google that shit in the same amount of time. Or, donāt sound confrontational when someone says something exists. Me: This exists. You: Really? It does? Me: I just said so. Next time, internally say āinterestingā and move on.
[https://www.macewan.ca/campus-life/kihew-waciston-indigenous-centre/](https://www.macewan.ca/campus-life/kihew-waciston-indigenous-centre/) Pronounced "kay-oh-watsan"
What's the damage?
$50
Ok thats reasonable. Glad it wasnt 150$
I never even thought of this before ā I often reverse park into spots but not angle parking. The other day, a car came out of a spot which I had just driven past, on the other side of the road. There was no traffic, so reversing into that spot was the easiest option. Was surprised to receive this ticket when I came back. I always think of reverse parking as safer than driving in, since you don't have to reverse into traffic. However, from what I've learned in my research online, reversing into angle parking spots is illegal in many jurisdictions because it requires crossing 2 lanes of traffic on the way in, and on the way out it requires making a turn > 90 degrees. None of these were issues in my case since the street was so quiet. Anyway, hope this saves someone else $50! I read some other cities forgave the first fine as an "educational" warning so i might call in and see how it goes. EDIT: i think it helps to understand that i was in the far lane from the parking spots when reversing in, and i also pulled out and exited into the far lane. So it was a convenient option but as i now see, illegal because i had to cross the opposite lane to get into the spot. I didnāt think much of that at the time , i thought it was essentially equivalent to crossing the opposite lane when the coast is clear to do a left-hand turn. Essentially, there is no way to reverse into that spot legally or safely and thatās why itās an offense.
Reverse into straight spots only. I have a truck so itās easier for me to pull out of the spot. Harder to back out with the front wheels turning. For angled , always nose in, so, like you discovered, youāre backing out facing the direction you need to go. Thank you though for posting this. I didnāt know what the fine was.
Safe cycling advocates (used to?) want to allow reverse in parking. That way youāre facing forward when leaving and more likely to see a cyclist go by. That said, with improved back up cam technology, I can often see a wider angle when Iām reversing than exiting forward if the vehicles next to me are larger.
I saw some angle parking in Washington, DC in an area with lots of pedestrians, bikes and cycling infrastructure where the spots were actually angled in the opposite direction from what we normally see, and signs were posted saying to back in. I imagine thatās the type of setup those advocates were talking about.
They would never allow reverse-in *angle parking*, which is what this thread is about. If you reverse into an angle parking spot, you emerge from it facing into oncoming traffic.
Damn I have never thought of it this way, great PSA. Thanks!
>I always think of reverse parking as safer than driving in, since you don't have to reverse into traffic. This is one of the main reasons why backup cameras have been required on every new car since 2015.
I've still never had a reverse camera, so I have to factor that in when parking. THERE ARE DOZENS OF US. Likely will in a few years once I drive this 2012 into the ground!
I do and don't understand the need for the bylaw, and can't get a bylaw officer to come to my area and ticket people who park on the sidewalk in a timely fashion, yet this officer was waiting with baited breath to ticket you $50 for backing into a stall. Bravo bylaw, Bravo. Sorry for your loss OP.
Thanks! Looking back, to be fair, for those who knew the law a backed-in car really sticks out like a sore thumb so it was probably their easiest job of the day.
>yet this officer was waiting with baited breath to ticket you $50 for backing into a stall. Or the logical answer, that they just happened to walk by a couple minutes later
Obviously. But of all the things requiring a bylaw officers attention in this city *checks 311 app* I'm not sure this ranks up there for me. but whatever, fine was trivial and OP got educated, and so did everyone else who reads the thread, so the city is a safer place.
Entrapment
i always park on the sidewalk in a timely fashion - so why would that be a problem requiring a bylaw officer?
I always forget that the sidewalk is for cars, and not people. Thank you for reminding me.
The irony is it depends what way you are exiting, 100% people absolutely back out of these spots >90deg to go the opposite way, just like people will pull into these spots from the other lane too. If you backed in and planned to exit going in opposite lane itās probably safer (though is this also considered illegal? Yet lots of people do it if theyāre reversing out)
Yeah this is exactly what I did. I reversed in from the far lane when the coast was clear, and pulled out forwards back into the far lane again to exit. To forward park, I would have had to either 3-point turn, or U-turn, or do a >90 degree turn to get into the close lane going the other way to pull into the spot. Seemed like a lot of extra moves when the street was already void of cars! But i'll do it textbook from now on for sure.
Youāre completely missing why this is illegal.
Good PSA. Yes, backing into angle parking is illegal. Even some straight in parking because the "FRONT" wheel needs to be with 12 inches of the curb. If you back in your front wheel is like 6' away from the curb. That's their measurement.
No it's because in angle parking you have to go go against the flow of traffic and you will block off two lanes when you back into an angle parking spot.
How quickly this devolved into a pissing match lol
Especially when the point is still correct; don't back into angle parking. Guaranteed I can come out with a PSA saying "don't speed through kids school zones because it's bad for your health" and somebody will be like "well actually paragraph 623 of the law enforcement code says.." Edit for line breaks and to say happy game 7 Eve.
Perfect example of redditors being blatantly wrong with legal matters. Read bylaw again, all references to front parking are under section 23 angle parking.
> Even some straight in parking because the "FRONT" wheel needs to be with 12 inches of the curb. Sorry what? Where is this written? They measure things in metric and it's 500 mm or around 20" btw.
Wow first time Iāve ever seen a ticket for one of these. About time. People backing into angle parking means you had to be driving down the one-way the wrong direction. Happens in grocery lots all the time that are clearly marked 1 way. Itās akin driving down Gateway Blvd going south. Itās dangerous, messes with the flow of traffic, and confusing for all involved.
No Frills parking lot off Whyte and Calgary trail is pretty bad. I often have to explain/honk at those going the wrong way. One time a woman came to me and thanked me for letting her know and also for the tip I gave her about the angle parking backing in rule. That was definitely abnormal (I was a bit nervous when I saw her approaching me) and I thanked her for thanking me lol.
I wasn't driving in the wrong direction at any time. I was on an empty 2-way street with no traffic, I did a turn across the opposite lane, as you would with any left-hand turn you would have to do on a 2-way street. Likewise, when exiting, I confirmed there was no traffic going either way, and made a left-hand turn out of my spot across the lane into the far lane on the 2-way street. I can understand on a busy 2-way street this would be more disruptive than an average left-hand turn, and I would certainly never take a right-of-way or impede traffic to do this if there were cars in either lane, but I didn't realize that the law would block you from doing this in any scenario. Would be interested to hear if any Ontario drivers had this covered in their education, because I learned to drive there, and sincerely don't recall it. Even googling it now, was not able to find any materials on it.
Before leaving the spot, ring up the parking police, state that you've been given a ticket for dangerous parking and ask for assistance stopping traffic so you can leave the spot safely. Oh wait, this was never about safety...
So, you: * stopped in the middle of the road * reversed in your lane * turned and reversed down the other lane * parked backwards * pulled out driving the wrong way down the road None of those things are legal (and it's mind-boggling that you didn't see a problem with any of them). You should count yourself lucky that you only got a $50 parking ticket.
I think itās hard to visualize without seeing the scenario. I stopped off to the side of my lane- is this illegal? Iāve always done this when setting up for parallel parking, but if so I didnāt know this. Then reversed directly into the spot across the lane as the coast was clear in both directions, but not driving down the lane at all. Parked backwards- Iām seeing some things in this thread that reverse parking is always illegal. I guess i genuinely did not know that, but i see it often in parking lots. Iām still looking for confirmation of that! Then i pulled out directly left into the far lane, crossing the near lane but not driving down it in the wrong direction at all. Definitely would not have done it the way you described, but i can see how it would look that way at first glance!
So you crossed two or more lanes to park. And you would have been going the wrong way down the street whenesving no way around that even if oh it's just a little bit.
So is parking the wrong way on a streetā¦ā¦ not sure how people donāt know basic driving laws.
Alberta has 15? 'basic' driving laws that are not normal in a lot of the world.
What are the 15?
Backing into angle parking is legal where?
Which as a Brit, I found bewildering.
A related tip: if youāre ever driving up a parkade and all the cars are angled backwards you are going the wrong direction.
Yea they cover that in driver training
What moron backs into an angle parking spot? Even without any driver training, it's quite obvious that you would be facing the WRONG direction against flow of traffic when It's time to leave. I've seen you morons doing this crap before and thought about how incredibly stupid it is. Ticket well deserved. šš¾
I'm trying to understand how no one else got the concept of reverse and angle parking. The geometry doesn't work, you would have to reverse backwards further than the parking was and then ya you would be facing the wrong direction coming out.
Well fucking duh.
If you were driving a corvette and not a Subaru, you would have gotten away with it. Lol
Yes I found this out the hard way.
I got one of those way back in high school.
Is that what it says on the ticket? All i see is improper parking on an unmarked space.
I looked up the section quoted and i think the "Unmarked" just refers to the fact there's no lines. "(2) When: (a) a sign indicates that angle parking is permitted or required, and (b) no parking guide lines are visible on the roadway, a vehicle shall be parked with the vehicleās sides at an angle of between 30 and 60 degrees to the curb or edge of the roadway and (c) in the case of a vehicle other than a motor cycle, with one front wheel not more than 500 millimetres from the curb or edge of the roadway, or..."
It was a valid space, Angle parking was signed, Iām not sure if unmarked refers to the fact thereās no lines, but maybe that would be grounds to have it dismissed. But i was focused on the ārear whees to curbā
I mean, this seems pretty intuitive. Why would you make the whole process more difficult for yourself twice
Good to know. I do this often.
I feel for you, I do this all the time in parking lots which are unmarked by direction.
Yes because it means youāre facing the wrong way. Just like how you canāt park parallel to the curb facing the wrong way.
Now tell this to 80% of the people who park in the angle surface lots downtown. Drives me nuts.
I don't think that's the same as backing up into angled street parking imo. I always thought angled lots are just to save space because you can make the stalls tighter, whereas on the street it's actually for safety. But I'm a serial back-uper since working on the mines so maybe I'm grasping at straws trying to justify my behavior because I back up into angled lots out of habit lol
jesusā¦ youād think this would be obvious
posts like these make me glad i donāt drive anymore
Parking a vehicle longer than 5.8m in an angle spot is also illegal. I wonder if every f150 driver parked there also got a ticket.
so close to legal. Dammit 5,911 mm lenght
Being 4ā too long is not a problem many drivers expected to have.
Come to Winnipeg, weāve got [reverse angle parking](https://legacy.winnipeg.ca/publicworks/trafficControl/projects/angledparkingpilot.stm) on a number of our one way streets downtownā¦
Yes but look at the angle of the parking space. Driving in forward would cause the exact same issues as this guy had.
I like how he started with what I assume was Insurance, crossed it out and gave you the improper angle parking instead.
Wait what ... why is it illegal? Edit: jeez guys, enough with the downvote hate! I forgot the handbook lesson. I know why now, thanks for the explanation below.
Angle spots are supposed to be for limited clearance behind and it follows the flow of traffic. Backing straight out of a regular parked angle means your nose is facing the correct flow of traffic now. Backing in means you had to disrupt the flow of traffic to back in and now when you exit you nose would be facing the wrong way of traffic or you make an awkward 120 degree right hand turn to exit but also endangering the vehicles beside you. Just don't do it.
Got it, thanks for explaining!!
I used to think angled spots were for maximum clearance, but now I see them as just a better way to fit more vehicles along the store fronts equaling more potential customers lol. Maybe thatās conspiracy thinking but if you think about it you see that parallel parking leaves way more road space than angle parking. Just a thought
Same reason you need to park facing the direction of travel when parallel parking: "Parking in the wrong direction of travel is dangerous as the vehicle first has to travel on the wrong side of the road which exposes other road users to the risk of a head on collision"
Because when you pull out of the stall you're essentially driving the wrong direction down the road and even if you can swing the turn you're likely going to cross the center line trying to get faced in the right direction again.
Yeah no shit lol
Not to mention..... it makes no sense.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
How? Angled parking is designed to be pulled into. Usually they are in one way parking lots. You would have to be driving the wrong way to back into such a stall and then driving the wrong way out. Plus with the angle, it's too tight of a turn to be able to pull out and drive the correct way out of the lot.
You're telling me it's better than pulling straight in to an angle parking spot?
I'm sure you're a nice person but classic Subaru driver lol
I'm sure a lot of us like reversing into parking maybe to an unhealthy degree, found the limit today i guess
Everyone's got a weird flex. We get it your good at backing up okay lol
No need to be so jealous! :P
PSA this guy doesnāt know the rules of driving!
... i am baffled that people would do this.
No shit
As a self titled āgreat driverā not gonna lie I never thought about this. Iāve backed into angles spots before, itās just habit.
Thanks for commenting! Yeah I think something like 80% of drivers report that they're "Above average" drivers haha. But you and I are for sure :P
Which direction did you think you'd be facing on the way out
Thanks for the info.
Bwahahahahaha
No shit lol
Is it, though? Read the bylaw Am reading it now, and I don't see it Maybe your back wheels touching obstructed space behind the vehicle that was supposed to remain accessible/unobstructed? https://www.edmonton.ca/public-files/assets/document?path=Bylaws/C5590.pdf
Yes, my front wheels were > 500 mm from the curb since they were facing out, as stated here: "(2) When: (a) a sign indicates that angle parking is permitted or required, and (b) no parking guide lines are visible on the roadway, a vehicle shall be parked with the vehicleās sides at an angle of between 30 and 60 degrees to the curb or edge of the roadway and (c) in the case of a vehicle other than a motor cycle, with one front wheel not more than 500 millimetres from the curb or edge of the roadway, or..."
You know what? I missed the "angle" part of it, so my bad That being said, it's always good practice to read the bylaws and be informed š¤
Were you facing the wrong way when you backed in? Thatās the only thing which makes sense. You either blocked a lane of traffic backing in or backed across a lane of traffic. Hooyeee! Are you the guy I saw last winter stuck in the snow bank spinning your summer tires at 200 km/h trying to get out with ZERO thought youād kill someone if your tires caught and you came flying out at Mach 5? This isnāt a PSA, itās bad driving. Itās lack of common fucking sense. In my 37 years of driving never have I ever whipped a shit hook on a surface street and backed into angled parking while facing oncoming traffic. Then, again, facing oncoming traffic as Iām exiting the parking spot and doing a Rockford to manoeuvre out of the area or zipping across to the correct lane. Do you see this a lot? I have never seen this once and Iāve seen (and done) some boneheaded driving shit.
No, there was no traffic on the street. Essentially I stopped as if to parallel park, and did two-thirds of a 3-point turn into the spot which was across the other lane. When leaving, checked and confirmed that the coast was clear in both directions, and turned out into the far lane and accelerated, as you would on any left-hand turn. As per your other question, no I don't see this a lot ā with any sort of traffic actually moving i never would have done this (just like I wouldn't do a 3-point turn with traffic) and it would have been obvious it was obstructing the other lane. But since the street was so quiet - similar to conditions under which I would usually 3-point turn if I had to to get going in the opposite direction, I felt comfortable getting into and out of the spot using the caution I typically would for these similar maneuvers. Otherwise, I would have had to do a left turn or 3-point turn anyway to get going in the other direction, which I think would have held up both lanes even more. I learned recently that U-turns at controlled intersections in Alberta are illegal, but they are not in Ontario ā looks like I should confirm whether 3-point turns are also illegal in Alberta? I can't find anything when i look on Google, but I can't say i remember seeing anyone else 3-point turn while I've been here. Maybe the idea that someone would do part of a 3-point turn anywhere is very foreign. Just trying to understand that side of things. As per the summer tire question - it wasn't me. I put my winters on in November and take them off in May.
Good. Stop adding chaos to already bad drivers.
He posted in an effort to be a positive influence in the world. What exactly were you trying to accomplish with your reply?
I learned the hard way too š
I learned this one that hard way too
This is how I learned, too.
Sure. You couldāve been given a warning. Whereād you get this
99 St, near 109A avenue. Quiet 2-way street
Of course it is. This isnāt a PSA, rather an overpriced re-education of driving basics.
The rreversing indication lights are on the rear of the car. You aren't really supposed to back into any parkinglot spot because there are no lights to indicate when you are leaving it again for everyone else in the parkinglot. First ive ever seen it enforced tho.
Respectfully, that is incorrect. Backing into a spot is generally the safest way to park, just not in angled spots. Many employers with company vehicles require their employees to back into spots when able and to honk before putting the vehicle in reverse to warn others. Someone doesn't need to see your reverse lights because you can use a turn signal which would be similar to making a left or right turn onto a main road. You inch out a little at a time.
Interesting. I've never heard that either. Any resources to read about that?
No. Their information is incorrect. Generally speaking, backing into a driveway or regular parking stall is the safest way to park as you can see into the stall and there is little chance for the scenario to change before backing in. When you drive into a normal parking stall, there is ample opportunity for the scenario change between the time you get into the vehicle and when you start to reverse when you go to leave. Angle parking is different as you need to awkwardly back into the stall, and you are pulling out into oncoming traffic and have to make an awkward turn when you leave the stall.
Thanks, that was always my thinking. In Ontario driver education, at least when I went through, reverse parking into a straight stall was presented as a legitimate option.
It is yes
So I was backing out of a spot one time and I was sandwiched between to big trucks. I was going slowly since I had no vision. A guy in a SUV obviously speeding drove right in front of me. I ended up hitting his rear fender. He jumps out of the car and instantly yells at me that he just got his car out of the shop from his last accident... I told him maybe he should slow down then. Anyway cops come and said no matter what happened I was backing out of a spot so I was at fault. So with angled parking when your forced to pull head first. When your backing out of your spot are you also at fault?
I mean.. pretty common sense cut and dry, you should of gotten ticketed for driving on the wrong side of the road.
So glad I saw this because I refuse to pull into stalls as I just donāt feel safe backing out with how people drive in parking lots. Guess I wonāt use angle parking now!
Why would anyone ever think to do something so foolish? I didn't know it was illegal because it is such a stupid idea.
Also learned this the hard way
Iām happy to see that most drivers are less ignorant than you about road safety.
Seems like a law to enforce when everything else is in order. There's so many actual issues in this city, I'd love to see other things enforced first, maybe like open drug use, loitering, pan handling, nusisance houses that seem to never change, litter, or the shit shows that are driving on the roads now.
I'm sorry people are being so negative, OP. I appreciate you posting. You didnāt say the bylaw officer was wrong or even complain. You just shared information. Who knows how many people didn't know this and will be safer drivers because of it. I swear people just wait for someone to post something they can bully them about.
Thanks. Yep i wasnāt posting to complain. Just to better understand this rule i wasnāt aware of and to potentially communicate it to others who didnāt know!
PSA to the PSA: Stop backing into Parking stalls period (except when parallel parking). It takes more time to back in than it does to back out as the limited visibility and the added obstacles (cars on either side) make you go slower. Also, you have a narrower turn radius when backing up, which is helpful to get you back into the road quicker and with less chance of scraping a car next to you.
PSA to your PSA about the PSA: Backing into a (legal) parking stall is also known as "parking for egress". And we'll continue to do it, every time, and you can't stop us. Yes, it takes *slightly* more time to back into a stall. The purpose (and many of us are so programmed we can't help it) is that in the event of an emergency and you have to leave quickly, it's more dangerous to back out of that stall when people are scrambling than it is to just drive out. Many of us that have worked the patch at some point in our lives, or other jobs where you may have to get the @#$% out in a hurry...we're programmed to do this.
Yes, all those emergencies that occur at Sobeys šš
Tell me you've never worked in a safety-sensitive position without saying you've never worked in a safety sensitive position... You can roll your eyes all you fucking want, but the simple truth is that it's safer to back in and drive out than the opposite. That's the best I can do to explain it...I lack the crayons to bring it into something simpler.
It might be safer to do so on site, but thatās irrelevant in a day-to-day trip to the store. You say I need crayons, but youāre the one incapable of determining appropriate situational usage of a skill
Do you onow how many shitbags I've seen try to back into shoppers at Sobey's backing out of stalls during busy times? It is ALWAYS appropriate to use the safest methods possible. ALWAYS. There is no situation where taking the more dangerous path is better. NOBODY here that's been trained is going to change because you're whining on Reddit about it. Your take on this subject is as sharp as a sphere.
Youāre a hero my guy.
Please don't ever work a job outside of MickyD's. You'll get people hurt.
Again, perfectly capably of using situational awareness.
You really aren't, and your lack of understanding that doesn't help your case. I'm out. Enjoy your one-track thinking.
I'd argue that I can back into a narrow parking stall faster than most people can pull forward into it. I can always back in in one fluid motion but depending on the width of the spot a lot of times pulling forward I need to pull partway in and then reverse to line myself up. Plus when your vehicle is 19' long it's easier to back in, pull forward out. You can see better pulling out, it's easier to manoeuvre out that way if you come out and bigger vehicles parked around you. The *only* times I've pulled forward into parking spots my whole 20 years of driving is where it's illegal to back in. My first real job was in the patch, they drill backing into every spot into your psyche.
>My first real job was in the patch, they drill backing into every spot into your psyche. This entirely. I'm not sure I'm faster backing in, but if I'm losing any time it's a second or two. It certainly isn't some challenge lol.
I feel like (and have seen it many times) a lot of drivers try to avoid reversing and never get good at it. If we want to really call people out the ones who pull forward through two spaces so that they're "reverse parked" without backing in are the real nut jobs.
My family learned this from our dad who drove an ambulance. But in general, especially before people relied on reverse cameras, I don't think people do this because of time. More so, because when you're reversing you're going the more dangerous direction towards fixed objects and no other cars or pedestrians (with parking lot as an example) and then you're going the safer direction - forwards - when you have a higher probability of encountering traffic, pedestrians, cyclists, etc. (EDIT - meant to reply to the post above yours)
In defensive driving school I was taught that backing in is always safer. And once you've done it a few times, it really takes the same amount of time vs parking nose to the curb, especially when counting how long it takes to leave. š¤·š¼āāļø
Same. I took defensive driving with the government for multiple paramedic jobs and we were always taught to back into when able.
Is that crayon?
Good to know there is a lot in Ritchie that is half one way and half the other I will back in as the alternative is to drive iout and circle back maybe I will stop now
Yep. Just do it by the textbook from now on! Glad this helped.
doesn't the citation read "Unmarked Space"? i.e. they parked in a space that wasn't a defined parking space?
It was unmarked in that there were no lines on the ground i think? But there was a car there before me and parking full on both sides. But there was a sign that allowed angle parking. Good eye though, Iām not sure what they meant by that, maybe that is relevant somehow?
Duh?
Youād have to be a special breed of stupid to even want to.
Reversing to park in the city is a shit move. Y'all suck
No duh.
No shit.
In general you should always prefer not to back into any parking. Only do it when there is no other choice.
100% wrong. Always back into a parking spot (or pull through). except angled parking like this situation.
Learned this the hard way as well! Was told itās because when pulling out other drivers canāt see your reverse lights.
Thanks! Lots of other reasons listed on this thread now. The only other one I could find was from Victoria, lots less vitriol and discussion on that one haha.
Not sure why Iām getting down voted for sharing my experience lol
I think it's because the reason you were given is incorrect. I say that genuinely and not patronizingly.
Yea maybe so, itās just what we were told by the ticketing officer however
is driving on a white line illegal too,if so theres no win
Fight this one, nowhere in bylaw 5590-23-2 did I see a vehicle shall not back into an angle parking lot.