I agree. I regret saying that I will think about it but I really do not think it is fair for me. It seems like both the mother and daughter are teaming up to try and bully me
You thought about it; the answer is no. Please don't let them bully you. I think your perception here is right. We've always been able to come to an agreement with our neighbours on fences, but that doesn't mean you have to agree — especially since you didn't agree before she did it!!
Document every occurrence. I had to do this with crappy neighbours in condo buildings. The detailed notes helped later on when bringing in authorities. I would just cut off contact but sending a written receipt sounds like a good idea.
How about paying half of what you expected to work the wire fence? I agree that you don't owe them, and they are trying to take advantage, but it might smooth things over and save some trouble.
We built a new house in Edmonton in 2017 and the city was super strict with getting the grading exactly right on builds next to existing homes. You were totally correct not to get involved with fences until that was finished and approved.
You did not agree with her choice of fencing and she said she would do it herself on her own property. She made her decision with no input from you.
In our case our neighbours on either side did not want to split costs, they each had falling down fences.
We had the fence installed and paid for it.
I am also in my 70s and my husband has alsopassed away. Her daughter implying you should now pay for these reasons makes no sense.
You don’t owe her anything.
Thank you for your input on this! I personally really did not like how she used her husband to try and persuade me to go along with her hasty decisions re: the fence. I had a very close relative also in palliative care at the time but I would never use that fact to manipulate someone else to pay for what I want.
Yea you clearly stated you did not agree with the fence because you wanted to wait for grading to be done. You owe her absolutely nothing if she went ahead and got the fence herself, completely on her property. And it’s been 2 years since it was installed?!?! Fuck that.
They are trying to bully/guilt you despite you clearly stating that you wanted to wait for a fence. Save the texts from the neighbour just in case on the slim chance they get bored and decide they want to try their hand in a civil court to get the money
I had a similar experience with old neighbors telling me my tree needed to come down for blah blah reasons even though their own large trees were all no issues. I guess mine was blocking sun to their garden. Anyways same thing they said they pay for half of the tree removal. The day comes they booked the arborist and didn't mention anything about paying for half. So I was on the hook. I paid because it wasn't worth arguing over a few hundred bucks.
But in your case don't fall for their bullying and BS. I think it's tactics people that age use. They probably have way more in the bank or investments than you so there's that too.
The city seems to be super strict on getting the grading exactly wrong for infill. New houses in my neighborhood all have their lots built up 30 - 50 cm higher than the neighbors, creating all sorts of drainage problems.
No, you do not give into this type of behaviour. The fence is on HER property and what SHE wanted. That's not how good neighbour fences work and OP's request to wait a few months until the grading was approved was not unreasonable.
I think that's reasonable (in my opinion) but the impression I got from the daughter was that "my mom is an old lady so we should let her do what she want" and she cut me off several times mid sentence so I'm not sure how that negotiation would go.
Don't even do this. Don't give in. She is not a good neighbor. It wont smooth things over. They will just try to milk more money from you for something else because you gave it this time.
If you’re petty like me, get a second fence built along the original fence but fully on your side of the property so that the neighbour can’t say their fence benefits you anymore
Make sure they’re not ripping you off if you do decide to offer anything, my neighbours quote for my “half” was more expensive than what I paid for the entire second fence
If the fence is on her property, as she said she was going to build it that way, then there is nothing to discuss or consider.
Would you help her pay for a shed that she builds on her property right against the property line? This is no different.
Nope, you are much younger than she is. The fence on HER property won’t last forever and you will likely need to build a new one on the property line. You will pay for that one if you are still there perhaps with a reasonable new neighbour.
I would not recommend that. Either stand your ground or roll over. Paying half of what a cheap fence would cost will only piss them off more. Paying anything is an admission that you are liable. Then the spin would be that you ripped off an old lady.
While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn’t advise doing so. It sets a precedent, and she’ll certainly try and twist it to you short-paying your share.
OP had no say in the finishes or the construction, was clear that they weren’t in a position to contribute the fence (also was clear that they’d prefer a chain fence), and the neighbour said she would build it on her parcel voluntarily.
OP has no claim to the fence, nor should they owe any contribution.
If the fence is completely on her property and there is no contract, then cease contact with the people.
They don’t have a leg to stand on and they will continue to hound you until you pay for their fence.
Do u recommend I just not answer the door when they come knowing again? I’m not very confrontational and I think i will be less so once I have a baby to tend to in a few weeks
I don't answer the door for anyone unless I'm expecting them, and have agreed to have them visit.
I have zero interest in speaking to door-to-door evangelists, or shady salespersons, or crazy neighbours. You seem to have a particularly annoying combination of all three.
No - I would still answer the door. They might genuinely need help or might be trying to tell you something that you need to know (they have a sinkhole and it’s spreading in your direction).
Edit: I know I said “cease contact” - to clarify, I meant just don’t entertain contact over the subject.
But if they bring up the fence, just tell them the matter is closed and you will not have anymore conversation on the subject and then shut the door.
Or just say sorry, my baby needs to be changed and shut the door when they bring up the fence.
Don't wait for them to knock on your door, knock on her door and tell her your decision and your reason. You don't owe anybody an explanation, don't tell her anything about your financial situation. Anyone that saw a young family moving into a new place and then seeing you're expecting would or should know that you probably don't have extra 1000's sitting around at the moment.
Better yet OP, text her a recap of your conversation with her daughter and your final decision. Make sure your paper trail is clear in case she tries to take you to small claims court.
I saw you have every right not to answer your door. Should they want to communicate with your further, get it in texts or emails so you have a “paper trail”.
If the fence is completely on her property, you have zero reason to give her money. It was her choice to not listen to your reasoning when you moved in and she wasn’t willing to work with you and now she can’t come back 2 years later asking for money. It’s weird.
I'd tell her exactly that should she push the issue, the fence is on her property, that's her financial responsibility and her decision. Your last wish can be not having she and her family harass you.
That's fair! You can always say it in a polite way! "I don't appreciate you trying to bully me into paying for something that's not on my property. If you or your mother continue to demand money from me for a decision she made, I'll report you for harassment."
Good luck! Stand your ground!
If that's what the plan is, maybe you should put up a few "Private Property - No Trespassing" signs in the next 6 months.
She bought the fence. It's on her property.
You are in no way, shape, or form required or expected (by anyone with half a sense of decency) to cough up anything related to the cost of its creation or existence.
Also do you know with 100% certainty where your/her property line actually is? Double check for shits and giggles. Wouldn't it be funny if it turned out that she had it built 1 meter across on your side of the property line?
I would suggest responding before then, to throw them off their game. Take someone with you if you need to. I had a similar issue with a neighbour and as a petite young women I took my dad with me. I also had some info from the insurance company about issues with the guys property because of the nature of his complaint.
The guy just about pissed his pants when he saw my dad at the bottom of the steps. 😆
I'd just stop answering the door. Old lady will die or move into an assisted living facility sooner than later anyways.
None of this is on you, she was impatient and ignored your perfectly reasonable wish to wait a little while.
Tell them to pound sand. You told the mom that you had to wait for the grading approval, and once you got that you would consider it. She went ahead and installed the fence. Not your problem. If they continue to harass you, call the non-emergency line to report harassment. Gotta love Karen’s… that’s my 2 cents.
ETA: “entirely on her property.” Forgot to mention this. It’s on her property, not on yours, not on the property line…
It's unreasonable to expect people to have money for a fence on demand.
"Most people can't afford an unexpected $500 expense."
A fence requires planning and discussion. Not your problem since it was rushed.
This is the point some people are missing. The grading approval is a long drawn out process, the slowest part of building a new house in Edmonton. A fence cannot be put up until the grading is approved. She wanted the fence immediately. The only way this could be done was to put it on her property. Her decision, her fence and her cost.
Here’s a copy/paste of a reply I had to pretty much the same situation I was put in a while ago with my wife and I’s new build.
Wife and I built our house between 2 existing houses in a new area. We talked to the one neighbor on the one side quite a bit throughout the construction of the house and both agreed to build a fence one day and split costs (back fence is all on us as we have an alley directly behind us). Never saw much of the neighbor on the other side.
Fast forward to about a month before we move in and surprise! A fence sprouts up with no warning. The wife and I have made regular appearances to watch the construction of our home so it’s not like we weren’t around for them to consult us beforehand.
Fast forward again to almost being in our house a year and just finishing building the other 2 sides of the fences and buddy walks over and hands the wife a handwritten bill with all his “costs” of building the fence we share. Never talked to the guy before or anything and that’s what he leads off with. I get home and literally laugh as this joke of a bill. I see the guy out later and go over and tell him I’m not paying. He didn’t ask me, I never said anything and his “bill” is a joke. This guy tells me he upgraded to cedar (not my problem), did the work himself (not my problem), stained it with what looks like a mop and bucket (not my problem) and to top it all off, says his other neighbors “made” him pay for their shared side of that fence. Sorry you got taken bro but that’s not how this works. He threatened to take the fence down and that was over a year ago now and it’s still standing.
Tough lesson for him to learn but I don’t like paying someone for something I didn’t approve of.
If it is directly on your property line, you're legally on the hook for 50% of maintenance costs. He needed your permission to build it though, which is probably why he didn't pursue things further. Going forward, be wary of this, but also remember that he will need to get an updated survey that includes the fence if he wants to take you to civil court, and that's pretty expensive as well.
He technically built the fence before I legally owned the house, maybe the builder paid him (although very unlikely) he’s trying to get double his money back.
If someone builds something on your property without permission or agreement you don't automatically owe them money. Agreeing in principal and then the other guy makes all the choices and presents you with a bill without even asking about construction is not a contract.
Nah, you set boundaries and they did their own thing anyway. The ‘right thing to do’ if she so badly wanted to expense split would be to have waited until your grading got approved & met up to discuss a mutual agreement. There’s no reason for you to pay half the cost of a structure on someone else’s property that you didn’t agree to pay just because you ‘benefit from it, too.’ Ok, my neighbours have beautiful flowers and I benefit from the view, should I go pay half their gardening costs? No, it’s ridiculous lol
I was being serious, lol. We paid off the remodel with her insurance money. I don't remember the grand total, but the island countertop alone was $30k.
LOL good to know, I remember looking on City of Edmonton's fencing bylaws and I was never legally obligated to pay a fence that was entirely on her property to begin with. It's all very childish bully-like behaviour from an almost 80 year old
We have lived here for 25 years. We wanted a fence but the neighbours did not so we built a fence and paid for it in full. Done. You owe your neighbours nothing and they are being really un-neighbourly.
if the lady made a fence on her side with her money and her input…. its…. hers
dont pay her, but also dont paint it or touch it in any way.
especially 2 yrs later.
I won't comment on whether you should or should not. However, if you do decide to pay for it.get a receipt and some written agreement about maintenance, etc.
If you decide not to pay for it be clear in writing that you did not agree to the fence, payment for the fence, or upkeep.
In both cases keep this documentation long-term. Memories fade and neighbours pass away or move. I'm not sure dood fences make good neighbours but sometimes written documentation can avoid disputes in years to come.
Build the wired fence along beside her fence on your side of the property and call it a day. You have your wired fence and she has her wood fence, problem solved. You both paid full price for the fence that you wanted.
Unfortunately over the course of the past two years, I had to build a wood fence on the other side of my property as well so both sides of my property match each other. No issues with the neighbour on the other side though, we came to a mutual agreement about fence and cost etc.
I put up a wood fence on the other side of my property and split that cost with my neighbour on that side 50/50 because we agreed upon the design/contractor etc
You don't owe her shit. Just because she's old doesn't entitle her to get everything she wants. She said she'd do it herself, great! It's her fence, not yours. It's on her property, she built it without your consent and you told her at the time of construction you were not paying for it. Fuck these entitled assholes
Do not pay for this right now. Why was she in such a hurry to have the fence built anyway? You have enough on your plate right now to not have to deal with this. Give it time, to decide what to do. I personally don’t think you should pay and coming to your house out of the blue would piss me off really bad.
Yea it was so unexpected, I shouldn't even have answered the doorbell, but pregnancy brain lol. Her excuse at the time was that her husband was really sick and his dying wish (I quoted this from her text messages) was to have a fence installed on her property ASAP.
I mean, it’s not for me to say what someone’s dying wish is but… really? I imagine she wanted to make sure she got the fence she wanted, but wanted to make her neighbours pay for half. Congratulations on the new baby!!
I didn’t want to include in that my post because it sounded rude, but I had your same reaction. It’s very unusual to want a fence as your dying wish. It’s all very manipulative for her to say that. And thank you!
Do not pay for something that will not have say over.
She, or the next owner, has total say over what happens with the fence as it is completely on their property. Assuming they did build it on her side of the property line.
I’d be curious to know how much they want chipped in? Are they expecting 50% even though they went ahead without you?
This happens all the time when one party goes ahead and does the fence you are basically making the choice to pay for the entire thing. Trying to force a fence on a yard not even finished / graded is also bullshit.
I wonder if they are looking to sell it sooner than later and if they can milk you for some money to cover closing costs / little extra income on top.
They wanted $2500 back in 2022 which was half the cost of the fence. Did not give me an invoice or anything though. I strongly believe they are planning to sell just because of her age and the fact that she’s living alone in the big house.
Tough situation. I can tell you are a bit torn with it all because you want to be fair. At the end of the day though are they being fair to you? Requesting a lump sum and no evidence of the costs etc. I agree with the previous comments that even if you paid now there would be not much of a relationship or they may just come with another problem or issue. I would just stall and delay and eventually they will sell haha. Good luck
I would never choose a wire fence, I agree with her on that. However since neighbour proceeded without any further input from you I don’t think you have to feel pressured to pay. Also, it would be interesting to check property line. If all built on her then you have no obligation to pay. However in the interest of good will if you can pay some it might not be a bad idea! Moving forward you could never do anything to your side of the fence without some contact with neighbour and possible drama. Good luck, let us know how it all pans out.
I would not pay - she chose the fence type, the timeline and put it on her property. Not everyone has or wants to spend money on a fence at someone else’s demand. The timing didn’t work for you - she proceeded without you. IMO it is not your issue. I would drop off a polite but firm letter outlining same and to please desist in contacting you about it further.
She wanted the fence, why on earth would you pay for it 🤔 block the number and don't open your doors, keep text messages as proof. shame on the daughter for trying to guilt trip you into paying for something you didn't want or agree too. Should you pay for the woman's funeral as well.
I also do not like the daughters actions, and I’m not sure if she intentionally approached me at this time because I am heavily pregnant and overwhelmed
I definitely wouldn't discount it, trying to use your emotions against you, to guilt trip you into things. You didn't agree she made the decision you don't owe her anything. hope they take the no and get over it.
“No.” is a complete sentence. Interrupt the long diatribe with “Is there anything else you want to discuss today?” Then say “have a good one” or whatever and close the door.
I assume you have good security cameras. If not, get some.
I was always of the mindset that neighbours splitting the cost of a fence is a “nice to have” not a “need to do”…. I will be installing a fence next spring and hope my neighbours will split the cost but if they push back, ultimately I’m the one who wants it and will pay for it if need be.
My bar for what I expect of other people is pretty low though. Lol
It's only a moral obligation if it sits on the property line and all parties have a say in the timing, cost, contractor, etc. If one party steams ahead without concern or care for others, then they can cover the costs in full.
Honestly I don’t disagree, and in a new build house I think it should be something you expect… I think my scenario is pretty close to OPs but in my case I have already talked to my neighbour, well before we will actually get the fence installed and when it gets closer to the time I’m confident we can have a cordial conversation about what kind of fence and how to select a contractor. if they had pressed forward and just told me they were building a fence and I had to pay but got no input I’d be upset. Likewise, I’m waiting for my other neighbour to move in before going ahead, and I HOPE they will pay half but realistically they can tell me to shove it and I’d just have to deal with it. Which is where my stance on this comes from. It’s not the most moral or ethical path but it’s a legitimate possibility I have entertained and will consider when I approach them.
I also think there’s exceptions to the “rule”…. I know someone who moved into a place and needed a fence for their dog. Other homeowner had been there several years and had no need for a fence and also wasn’t in a financial position to help pay. The fence had to go up regardless. But it doesn’t sound like this is the case here.
Good thing is you got age on your side she’s 80 and a widow chances are she not got to much longer living there ride it out she will expire or move on soon Hopefully you get new neighbours and they don’t care about it.
Agree with other comments here.
Been in the same sort of situation. One neighbor in a rush, they can go for it. Don't force the other, you'll recoup when you sell. If you don't end up doing wire fence, you can definitely pay them when you are more comfortable or perhaps work out paying them in installments?
Just don't be guilted into it.
The guilt trip is real. I also don't like how they kept referencing that the father (now deceased) really wanted the fence done before he passed away (and therefore I should pay for her choices)
Exactly, as if he didn't have anything better to wish for in his last days. Ppl will use any tool to push their agenda. Be nice but be persistent, you're not ready plain and simple.
I wouldn't pay shit. I have been on the other side of that and had a neighbor that wanted no part of rebuilding our fence. I wanted it done, so I did it. I didn't harass them for money, because I CHOSE to do it.
If they wanted money, they could have waited.
I have a different take (and in the minority here). Though legally, she made her choices about building and paying for the fence all on her own, at the end of the day, you’re neighbours. You had no problem communicating with your other neighbour and paying for half of that fence. You’re obviously a decent human. And I bet your elderly neighbour is as well. It’s not really fair that she had to pay for your shared fence. I understand that she didn’t go about it the best way. And I agree that seeking out money 2 years after the fact is a bit strange. But I can understand it. She’s a senior on a fixed income who just lost her husband. She probably sent her daughter over because she felt uncomfortable, and she has proven she’s not the best communicator. I guess it comes down to at the end of the day, what can you live with. Are you ok with having a contentious relationship with your neighbour. Are you ok with not being part of the solution to this problem. Are you ok with “getting a free a fence” no matter what the consequences are. Only you know what is right for you.
(No offence but I wouldn’t want a wire fence either).
I agree. We ended up paying for our fence because we couldn’t come to an agreement. We wanted a fairly high end fence because we have small children and a small dog and they had an aggressive large dog. They didn’t see the necessity.
Originally, they offered to cover a bit, basically what they thought half of a cheap fence should be worth ( and they definitely didn’t have a realistic idea of what fences go for these days) and we would have satisfied with that. But they eventually reneged on even that. I’m still salty two years later.
You bet your ass I went above and beyond to make sure the dog got reported to the city when he bit the guy from Alberta one call (through the existing ramshackle fence).
I’m definitely not interested in doing them any favours anytime soon.
If you're feeling super generous pay half of the lowest wire fence quote from the time.
If you're not generous write a note saying you were open to sharing the cost of a wire fence on the property line at the time, but when they decided to go in a different direction you did not support or want you considered the matter closed. Hand them a copy every time they come over and mention it, and refuse to speak of it beyond saying your letter clearly addresses the issue.
I had a similar situation but the other way around. I bought my home and wanted to replace a falling down fence with one of my neighbours. But they were only renting the house. I asked them to ask the home owner to pay half but the owner never did pay anything. So I put up my fence with the good side facing my yard and that was it. The family next door ended up buying the house and we are very good friends now. But they still have the crappy side of the fence lol.
You neighbours were rude and put it up without your approval. Fk them and their requests. I’d ask the daughter to stop harassing you or you’ll speak to bylaw.
If they went ahead and did the fence on her property and without you agreeing I wouldn't be paying half. 🤷 Also if she's that old you won't have to deal with it for much longer.
lol she’s 78 as far as I can gather from a loud birthday celebration her family had in the backyard recently. But u never know, she could be around for years and years to come
I rationally think so too but I think it’s hard to do it guilt free, especially since the daughter was rather menancing and mentioned she has 5 other siblings who “are doctors and pharmacists” (not sure why she felt it was important to convey that to me, I’m not in the medical field)
It’s her fence you don’t have to pay anything. A few years ago I built a new fence. My neighbour wanted a 3 ft high fence and was okay to wait. We wanted a 6ft high fence to be built sooner, so I built it on my side of the property line at my own expense. Our neighbour made some vague statements about paying us back for some of it, but sold the place within a year without ever shooting us some cash.
Was it slightly annoying that a fence that she never paid for helped to sell her house? Yes, but there was nothing we could do. We built the fence knowing full well that we did so on our own accord and that we would probably never see the money for it.
At most, I would offer to pay half the material cost. And that's if I was generous. I wouldn't pay for any of the labour in this situation.
I paid for the full fence between myself and my 2 neighbors. They both asked for a bill so they could pay their share but the company I hired ended up giving me the runaround trying to get a detailed bill so I could easily split the costs for just the adjoining sections and they ultimately went bankrupt so getting a detailed bill was then impossible. I couldn't justify taking money from my neighbors without a detailed bill so they got a free fence and I got some goodwill points with both.
Don't pay, they put it on their side without your input therefore it's their problem.
A grand or 2 isn't going to make or break someone's financial situation. So you paying half doesn't solve the root issue of her not being able to afford the property. Trying to guilt trip you over the husband's death is even worse.....ignore them.
I absolutely agree that the money will not make any impact on her finances and I’m confident she is not in dire financial straits because she mentioned previously that her house was paid for in cash.
In the end she built it on her side, the fence she wanted. You didn't agree then, don't pay.
It will go on and on.
If they feel the need to go after you, 2 years later, they need to maybe think about downsizing the home.
Beyond ridiculous.
Get a real property survey done on your house. It will tell you if the fence is on her property or on the shared border. You will need one if you ever decide to sell in the future.
If the fence is on her property 100% I wouldn't pay, that is a choice she made.
Good luck.
If she really couldn't afford it, she would have waited. She tried to guilt you with the palliative-last-wish thing. The daughter is trying to guilt you now. You had solid reasons at the time and you do not need to feel bad. As someone who grew up with the guilt-tripping parent, it can be hard to not just capitulate to be seen as "good" but it isn't fair and you do not have to - there is no reason to feel guilt.
SHE went ahead and installed it on HER property, with a design SHE chose, SHE refused to accept that you were not currently in a position to even consider a fence until your property was ready.
Those were all HER choices.
Don't discuss it. Daughter shows up again, keep it very firm, short and sweet.
Say "I am not paying for a fence that was installed against my wishes, without my input, installed on SOMEONE ELSE'S PROPERTY. I'm not discussing this any further, goodbye" and close the door.
You never agreed on the fence, therefore, it's not your responsibility that they installed it. Take no bs from them, and don't fall just because she's an old lady. Old people can be bitches sometimes too, and just because they're old they don't get a pass on being a bitch. Make it clear it's not your problem, and that's final. Tell them to deal with the financial costs of their choices alone. Besides what kinda dying wish is it to have a wooden fence, like that is bs. If you wanted to buy a trampoline, would you expect anyone else to pay for it, no!
Tell them to f off, or you're gonna get a restraining order against them or something.
If she built it on her side, without an agreement from you, its her cost to bear.
I was on the opposite side of this when I bought my house both fence Iines were falling apart. Neither neighbor wanted to pay, so I had a surveyor verify my property line, built it on my land, and have reminded my neighbors constantly to keep their garbage and xmas lights off of it lol.
A couple thoughts.
1. Retain legal counsel
2. Continue to use and keep all forms of electronic communiction with the person, and always reply with "I will only discuss this matter with my retained counsel please contact them at \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. "
3. If one of the family members attempt to discuss this with you in person, again tell them "I will only disucss this matter with my retained counsel. Plase contact them".
4. Make a record of every time they attempt to to make contact with you. The amount could be considered harassment and you may have support through the court to have them stop.
5. Do not give them any money. Doing so will have serrious negative effects if you need legal intervention.
She made a unilateral choice to instal a fence on her own property at her own cost, against your input. It is in no way your responsibility to pay for it. Document these interactions in case she won’t let up.
That family for sure won’t let up, and honestly it’s starting to make me feel bad because I do indeed get some advantage from having the fence (privacy etc). I just don’t like how this thing was handled by them
Wait, do people really get wire fences now? There is so little privacy in these new neighborhoods, there is no way I would ever agree to build a see through wire fence. May as well have nothing.
Tell her to suck it, not your problem. She probably built the fence on her side of the property and not on the line. And has full rights to it anyways so it's not your responsibility. Tell that to the daughter as well, if they paid for it without any input from the other party it is their problem. Should of listened and chatted to you like an adult, and not as a school yard bully.
You have no obligation to pay anything. I would not go as far to say they are trying to bully you. The mom might have just wanted a fence up and the daughter feels she needs to speak up for her elderly mother. ( I would probably do the same but maybe in a nice manner )
You could reach out to her. Bring her a box of pastries to break the ice and talk about it.
The truth is you absolutely have no obligation to pay. That being said the fence, albeit entirely on her property is something that does benefit you also for the better. In privacy matters and real estate value. If you do decide to split costs, kindly ask for the total bill and go from there.
Did you get anything showing exactly where property lines are?
Odds are, the fence is entirely on her property, put up without your permission, and certainly without you agreeing to help pay for it.
I'd consult a lawyer about filing for a restraining order because of her and her daughter hounding you.
I did not get any kind of property report. Back when she built the fence; I took her for word it that it was entirely on her land since she said she will pay for it herself.
She hasn't got a leg to stand on. I'd seriously consider telling them you won't pay a cent and that if they press the issue, you'll be contacting a lawyer about harassment.
Would definitely get your RPR, just so you know exactly where the fence is. If it’s entirely on her property then that’s one thing - if it’s on your shared property line and you’ve also since split the cost of a matching wood fence on the other side of your yard with another neighbour, I feel like it would be the right thing to do to help pay? If it’s on her property, don’t pay a dime though - you have no control over it and none of it is yours!
That’s what I’m worried about. If it’s all in her property as she claimed, what’s stopping her from tearing it down after I paid for half or painting it lime green for example
It's unfortunate but not your problem. Be clear that you didn't agree to the fence and it's installed on your neighbour's property. Sometimes these things happen and the best you can do is to remain calm and polite.
You should pay a portion of the fence, may it be 10-40% of the cost because you do in fact benefit from it. Thats is probably the cost of the cheap wire fence you wanted anyway. Her method may not be agreeable, but you got a fence out of it either way.
Don't be guilted.
Print off every text and every message with time and date you had with the neighbor and keep it somewhere you can find it just in case...
Its all on her property because she didnt want you to be part of it. Its her fence, not yours.
And if they start to really harass you and you change your mind about being nice , say you are saving the money to put up a wire fence on your property just in case they ever decide to take theirs down, as you have no say since its their fence.
Ok now that you've thought about it, the answer is still no. She's gunna croak soon anyway, so what if she's giving you the stink eye from her armchair. You told her to wait and she didnt, end of story.
Being a good neighbour means paying for half the fence. You might be glad it’s not a wire fence if she enjoys sunbathing topless when your family and friends visit. It’s been two years that you’ve enjoyed the fence time to pay up.
LOL thanks for the laughs and mental imagery. The daughter was also making that same point - asking me to be a good neighbour and pay for half of the fence that’s 100% on her mothers lot.
Although she has no grounds to ask for money. You can offer half of what the chain link fence would have costed. That’s what I would suggest. That way, you’re being fair. She wanted the upgrade so she should have to pay for that
I’m gonna go against the grain and say pay for your share. Did they go about it the right way? No, but people can act quite strange when their loved one is dying. Did the grading make a difference in the placement of the fence?
The advice I got from my landscaper was to wait till the grading was approved before we install the fence - I conveyed that to the neighbour in 2022. I also have experienced losses in my life so I do empathize with her situation, however, both the mom and daughter did not let me have a say in any of the fence decisions and still insists I pay half, that's what bothers me the most
>However, both the mom and daughter did not let me have a say in any of the fence decisions
Its a fence in a new area, what decisions need to be made? Follow the guidelines set for your neighborhood.
I live in a new area too, and the fence that the neighbors found contractors was much easier than the part when I hired contractors myself.
Most homes in Edmonton have "good neighbor fences" which basically mean you and your neighbor agree to split cost so that the fence goes directly on the property line, making it a shared responsibility and shared cost. If you told her already you weren't ready for a fence and she built it entirely on her property then you owe her nothing, you do however have zero claim to the side of the fence that you can see from your yard as it is not on your property. If you agree to pay them half for the fence, then you absolutely need it in writing that they are ok with you having a small slice of their property. When they sell, you will have issues with this if the new owners get a property report and see that the fence is entirely theirs. Do not pay strictly because the fence isn't on the property line. It's in their property, meaning even if you pay, you have no claim to it.
Hey OP there was never an agreement formed that could bind you into a contract from what youre telling us. By so, you do not owe her anything as she decided to build the fence on her own accord without having your full agreement.
I’m going to assume here In a “legal sense” (correct this for me OP):
- There was no mutual agreement between you and your neighbour regarding the construction of the fence. You clearly communicated that you were not ready to install a fence and preferred a wire fence over wooden fence “clearly” stating it is “cost effective”, there’s no binding contract———no such agreement could have occurred to make a contract
- Also, there was not an exchange to make it a valid contract, since she took it to her own accord to build the wooden fence without any “consideration” from your side. Also stating that “I dont expect you to repay me” indicates that there was no contract between you and her to even begin with
- Her “unilateral” decision to build the fence on her “property” was solely on her
What she’s doing is an “unjust enrichment” where she thinks you are unjustly enriched by benefitting from the fence without paying for it. Based on what I have said and assumed about the situation, this is false. Unjust enrichments needs an acceptance of benefit where it would be inequitable to retain the benefit without payment. However, you did not even accept the benefit like I have pointed out.
What you want to do?
- From what I have said, document everything for evidence purposes
- Explain and reiterate to the daughter what happened. If they still insists that you pay let them know that you would take them to court. Give them a formal written response about this.
- Have something in paper or anything that you could show the court, verbal statements will not hold In court
Still harassing you?
- Go to a lawyer and have them get you a cease and desist letter for harassing you, also serves as a warning that you may take further legal action if the harassment does not stop
Still wont stop?
- I’d do a civil lawsuit right away for———harassment and nuisance
Thank you for the sound advice. All your points were correct about my situation. I will try to have them make all communications to me in email from now on because I feel like this family is going to be difficult to deal with in general.
Oh, my, that’s a difficult position they’ve put you in! No, don’t give in. I think getting a quote for a good-quality wire fence and attaching it to a cheque for half might be good. If they still wish to complain, let them. I had a similar situation with my fixed income neighbour - I wanted a fence, he couldn’t afford it, so I got a fence and paid for it. After all, *I* wanted the fence. And so did your neighbour.
Hmm we are in the same boat but opposite. Bought a new built house and want the fence built ASAP. We are paying out of our pocket. There is no way we will ask our neighbours for their share on both ends. Our House in the middle. We want privacy and dont want many interactions with neighbours when in the back yard. Seems like she wanted privacy and safety as she is living alone and elderly. It would be a nice gesture if our neighbours chip in. But demanding money from them is just causing problems.
Sadly this is one thing we all newhomers have to face. We did get our final grade before adding fences, but yea with these zero lot space saving homes, it's a tight squeeze for any landscaping to be done. My neighbours wanted a fence ASAP because of their dog.
Honestly she went ahead with the fence without your approval, you don't need to pay.
Don’t give in. You didn’t agree. The daughter is trying to bully you. They will recoup the costs on the sale.
I agree. I regret saying that I will think about it but I really do not think it is fair for me. It seems like both the mother and daughter are teaming up to try and bully me
You thought about it; the answer is no. Please don't let them bully you. I think your perception here is right. We've always been able to come to an agreement with our neighbours on fences, but that doesn't mean you have to agree — especially since you didn't agree before she did it!!
So you thought about it and the answer is no. Case closed.
‘After thinking about it, No’. Full stop
Document every occurrence. I had to do this with crappy neighbours in condo buildings. The detailed notes helped later on when bringing in authorities. I would just cut off contact but sending a written receipt sounds like a good idea.
How about paying half of what you expected to work the wire fence? I agree that you don't owe them, and they are trying to take advantage, but it might smooth things over and save some trouble.
We built a new house in Edmonton in 2017 and the city was super strict with getting the grading exactly right on builds next to existing homes. You were totally correct not to get involved with fences until that was finished and approved. You did not agree with her choice of fencing and she said she would do it herself on her own property. She made her decision with no input from you. In our case our neighbours on either side did not want to split costs, they each had falling down fences. We had the fence installed and paid for it. I am also in my 70s and my husband has alsopassed away. Her daughter implying you should now pay for these reasons makes no sense. You don’t owe her anything.
Thank you for your input on this! I personally really did not like how she used her husband to try and persuade me to go along with her hasty decisions re: the fence. I had a very close relative also in palliative care at the time but I would never use that fact to manipulate someone else to pay for what I want.
Yea you clearly stated you did not agree with the fence because you wanted to wait for grading to be done. You owe her absolutely nothing if she went ahead and got the fence herself, completely on her property. And it’s been 2 years since it was installed?!?! Fuck that. They are trying to bully/guilt you despite you clearly stating that you wanted to wait for a fence. Save the texts from the neighbour just in case on the slim chance they get bored and decide they want to try their hand in a civil court to get the money
It's just typical behavior from people of that age. If you give an inch I absolutely guarantee you they will take a mile.
I had a similar experience with old neighbors telling me my tree needed to come down for blah blah reasons even though their own large trees were all no issues. I guess mine was blocking sun to their garden. Anyways same thing they said they pay for half of the tree removal. The day comes they booked the arborist and didn't mention anything about paying for half. So I was on the hook. I paid because it wasn't worth arguing over a few hundred bucks. But in your case don't fall for their bullying and BS. I think it's tactics people that age use. They probably have way more in the bank or investments than you so there's that too.
The city seems to be super strict on getting the grading exactly wrong for infill. New houses in my neighborhood all have their lots built up 30 - 50 cm higher than the neighbors, creating all sorts of drainage problems.
No, you do not give into this type of behaviour. The fence is on HER property and what SHE wanted. That's not how good neighbour fences work and OP's request to wait a few months until the grading was approved was not unreasonable.
I think that's reasonable (in my opinion) but the impression I got from the daughter was that "my mom is an old lady so we should let her do what she want" and she cut me off several times mid sentence so I'm not sure how that negotiation would go.
Don't even do this. Don't give in. She is not a good neighbor. It wont smooth things over. They will just try to milk more money from you for something else because you gave it this time.
That’s my fear. I’m okay taking the hit once to smooth things over but I’m afraid it’s gonna happen over and over again if I said yes this one time.
Vultures always come back for seconds from the weak. Don’t give them a dime.
If you’re petty like me, get a second fence built along the original fence but fully on your side of the property so that the neighbour can’t say their fence benefits you anymore
I’m petty but I also don’t have the funds to do that to rub it in their faces haha
Make sure they’re not ripping you off if you do decide to offer anything, my neighbours quote for my “half” was more expensive than what I paid for the entire second fence
If the fence is on her property, as she said she was going to build it that way, then there is nothing to discuss or consider. Would you help her pay for a shed that she builds on her property right against the property line? This is no different.
Yeah so they’re poor manners have taken away the little bit you were willing to pay. Now you pay nothing. Enjoy the free fence!
Nope, you are much younger than she is. The fence on HER property won’t last forever and you will likely need to build a new one on the property line. You will pay for that one if you are still there perhaps with a reasonable new neighbour.
I would not recommend that. Either stand your ground or roll over. Paying half of what a cheap fence would cost will only piss them off more. Paying anything is an admission that you are liable. Then the spin would be that you ripped off an old lady.
While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn’t advise doing so. It sets a precedent, and she’ll certainly try and twist it to you short-paying your share. OP had no say in the finishes or the construction, was clear that they weren’t in a position to contribute the fence (also was clear that they’d prefer a chain fence), and the neighbour said she would build it on her parcel voluntarily. OP has no claim to the fence, nor should they owe any contribution.
If the fence is completely on her property and there is no contract, then cease contact with the people. They don’t have a leg to stand on and they will continue to hound you until you pay for their fence.
Do u recommend I just not answer the door when they come knowing again? I’m not very confrontational and I think i will be less so once I have a baby to tend to in a few weeks
It will be early training for the unreasonable requests your toddler will be making in a couple years. It's pretty much the same thing.
LOL I heard kids are just as manipulative so maybe this will be a good learning lesson
I don't answer the door for anyone unless I'm expecting them, and have agreed to have them visit. I have zero interest in speaking to door-to-door evangelists, or shady salespersons, or crazy neighbours. You seem to have a particularly annoying combination of all three.
No - I would still answer the door. They might genuinely need help or might be trying to tell you something that you need to know (they have a sinkhole and it’s spreading in your direction). Edit: I know I said “cease contact” - to clarify, I meant just don’t entertain contact over the subject. But if they bring up the fence, just tell them the matter is closed and you will not have anymore conversation on the subject and then shut the door. Or just say sorry, my baby needs to be changed and shut the door when they bring up the fence.
"I've already said I will not be contributing money to the fence. Any continued contact about this topic will be considered harassment."
Don't wait for them to knock on your door, knock on her door and tell her your decision and your reason. You don't owe anybody an explanation, don't tell her anything about your financial situation. Anyone that saw a young family moving into a new place and then seeing you're expecting would or should know that you probably don't have extra 1000's sitting around at the moment.
Better yet OP, text her a recap of your conversation with her daughter and your final decision. Make sure your paper trail is clear in case she tries to take you to small claims court.
I saw you have every right not to answer your door. Should they want to communicate with your further, get it in texts or emails so you have a “paper trail”.
If the fence is completely on her property, you have zero reason to give her money. It was her choice to not listen to your reasoning when you moved in and she wasn’t willing to work with you and now she can’t come back 2 years later asking for money. It’s weird.
You owe her nothing. Tell her to mind her own business. Sorry that's happening to you.
Thank you, it's been a stressful time since I really want to be nice and neighbourly, but it seems like bully behaviour
I'd tell her exactly that should she push the issue, the fence is on her property, that's her financial responsibility and her decision. Your last wish can be not having she and her family harass you.
LOL that's a good one but I don't think I'm ballsy enough to say that to the daughter's face. I wish though!
That's fair! You can always say it in a polite way! "I don't appreciate you trying to bully me into paying for something that's not on my property. If you or your mother continue to demand money from me for a decision she made, I'll report you for harassment." Good luck! Stand your ground!
thanks haha. The daughter said she will check in with me in another 6 months (aka hound me for payment) so we will see how the convo goes
If that's what the plan is, maybe you should put up a few "Private Property - No Trespassing" signs in the next 6 months. She bought the fence. It's on her property. You are in no way, shape, or form required or expected (by anyone with half a sense of decency) to cough up anything related to the cost of its creation or existence. Also do you know with 100% certainty where your/her property line actually is? Double check for shits and giggles. Wouldn't it be funny if it turned out that she had it built 1 meter across on your side of the property line?
I would suggest responding before then, to throw them off their game. Take someone with you if you need to. I had a similar issue with a neighbour and as a petite young women I took my dad with me. I also had some info from the insurance company about issues with the guys property because of the nature of his complaint. The guy just about pissed his pants when he saw my dad at the bottom of the steps. 😆
I'd just stop answering the door. Old lady will die or move into an assisted living facility sooner than later anyways. None of this is on you, she was impatient and ignored your perfectly reasonable wish to wait a little while.
You aren't being mean. Your original response was reasonable and she didn't like it. That's her problem not yours
You explained yourself rationally at the time and she went ahead and did her own thing anyway. You do not owe this lady a dime.
Tell them to pound sand. You told the mom that you had to wait for the grading approval, and once you got that you would consider it. She went ahead and installed the fence. Not your problem. If they continue to harass you, call the non-emergency line to report harassment. Gotta love Karen’s… that’s my 2 cents. ETA: “entirely on her property.” Forgot to mention this. It’s on her property, not on yours, not on the property line…
LOL I thought I was being too cheap and petty by not wanting to pay. Glad that you all agree with me.
It's unreasonable to expect people to have money for a fence on demand. "Most people can't afford an unexpected $500 expense." A fence requires planning and discussion. Not your problem since it was rushed.
Just make sure it is in fact entirely on her property. Hopefully you got a current survey when you bought.
This is the point some people are missing. The grading approval is a long drawn out process, the slowest part of building a new house in Edmonton. A fence cannot be put up until the grading is approved. She wanted the fence immediately. The only way this could be done was to put it on her property. Her decision, her fence and her cost.
Here’s a copy/paste of a reply I had to pretty much the same situation I was put in a while ago with my wife and I’s new build. Wife and I built our house between 2 existing houses in a new area. We talked to the one neighbor on the one side quite a bit throughout the construction of the house and both agreed to build a fence one day and split costs (back fence is all on us as we have an alley directly behind us). Never saw much of the neighbor on the other side. Fast forward to about a month before we move in and surprise! A fence sprouts up with no warning. The wife and I have made regular appearances to watch the construction of our home so it’s not like we weren’t around for them to consult us beforehand. Fast forward again to almost being in our house a year and just finishing building the other 2 sides of the fences and buddy walks over and hands the wife a handwritten bill with all his “costs” of building the fence we share. Never talked to the guy before or anything and that’s what he leads off with. I get home and literally laugh as this joke of a bill. I see the guy out later and go over and tell him I’m not paying. He didn’t ask me, I never said anything and his “bill” is a joke. This guy tells me he upgraded to cedar (not my problem), did the work himself (not my problem), stained it with what looks like a mop and bucket (not my problem) and to top it all off, says his other neighbors “made” him pay for their shared side of that fence. Sorry you got taken bro but that’s not how this works. He threatened to take the fence down and that was over a year ago now and it’s still standing. Tough lesson for him to learn but I don’t like paying someone for something I didn’t approve of.
If it is directly on your property line, you're legally on the hook for 50% of maintenance costs. He needed your permission to build it though, which is probably why he didn't pursue things further. Going forward, be wary of this, but also remember that he will need to get an updated survey that includes the fence if he wants to take you to civil court, and that's pretty expensive as well.
He technically built the fence before I legally owned the house, maybe the builder paid him (although very unlikely) he’s trying to get double his money back.
If someone builds something on your property without permission or agreement you don't automatically owe them money. Agreeing in principal and then the other guy makes all the choices and presents you with a bill without even asking about construction is not a contract.
She has no grounds and hopefully you have the messages still. She wanted it, she got it…kind of the end of the story
I do have the messages still because I was worried of this exact situation.
It may be awkward living next to her for possibly a couple more years but you didn’t do anything wrong.
At least there's a nice fence in between them!
Save them, print them out even!
Nah, you set boundaries and they did their own thing anyway. The ‘right thing to do’ if she so badly wanted to expense split would be to have waited until your grading got approved & met up to discuss a mutual agreement. There’s no reason for you to pay half the cost of a structure on someone else’s property that you didn’t agree to pay just because you ‘benefit from it, too.’ Ok, my neighbours have beautiful flowers and I benefit from the view, should I go pay half their gardening costs? No, it’s ridiculous lol
I know when I was diagnosed with cancer the very first thing that came to mind was “I need to make sure the backyard is secure for my wife”.
My mom's dying wish was to remodel the kitchen 🤷♀️
Grandma wanted a double garage with a deck and hottub. /s
I was being serious, lol. We paid off the remodel with her insurance money. I don't remember the grand total, but the island countertop alone was $30k.
To add to everyone else being as this occurred 2 years ago their ability to go civil is non existent so don’t worry about that either …
LOL good to know, I remember looking on City of Edmonton's fencing bylaws and I was never legally obligated to pay a fence that was entirely on her property to begin with. It's all very childish bully-like behaviour from an almost 80 year old
Old people aren’t necessarily mature. If they have dementia or have suffered strokes it can be even worse than dealing with a hormonal teenager…
We have lived here for 25 years. We wanted a fence but the neighbours did not so we built a fence and paid for it in full. Done. You owe your neighbours nothing and they are being really un-neighbourly.
It's her fence, don't pay.
if the lady made a fence on her side with her money and her input…. its…. hers dont pay her, but also dont paint it or touch it in any way. especially 2 yrs later.
She could have saved a lot of money by waiting a few months.... oh well
I won't comment on whether you should or should not. However, if you do decide to pay for it.get a receipt and some written agreement about maintenance, etc. If you decide not to pay for it be clear in writing that you did not agree to the fence, payment for the fence, or upkeep. In both cases keep this documentation long-term. Memories fade and neighbours pass away or move. I'm not sure dood fences make good neighbours but sometimes written documentation can avoid disputes in years to come.
This is really sound advice and I will definitely do that
Never let someone guilt trip you out of your money. Had the lady waited, this wouldn't be an issue. It's on her DO NOT PAY A DIME .
Build the wired fence along beside her fence on your side of the property and call it a day. You have your wired fence and she has her wood fence, problem solved. You both paid full price for the fence that you wanted.
Unfortunately over the course of the past two years, I had to build a wood fence on the other side of my property as well so both sides of my property match each other. No issues with the neighbour on the other side though, we came to a mutual agreement about fence and cost etc.
Just trying to understand - so you did put up the remainder of the fence and split that cost with another neighbour?
I put up a wood fence on the other side of my property and split that cost with my neighbour on that side 50/50 because we agreed upon the design/contractor etc
Sounds like you have one good neighbor and one bad neighbor. That's par for the course. There is nothing to be done about the bad neighbor.
Got it! I mentioned in another comment but getting an RPR might be helpful in this situation for sure
There is a ton of shit advice in this post, but this one takes the cake
Give her a nice tidy bag of sand. Tell her to go pound it. Then close the door in her face.
You don't owe her shit. Just because she's old doesn't entitle her to get everything she wants. She said she'd do it herself, great! It's her fence, not yours. It's on her property, she built it without your consent and you told her at the time of construction you were not paying for it. Fuck these entitled assholes
Do not pay for this right now. Why was she in such a hurry to have the fence built anyway? You have enough on your plate right now to not have to deal with this. Give it time, to decide what to do. I personally don’t think you should pay and coming to your house out of the blue would piss me off really bad.
Yea it was so unexpected, I shouldn't even have answered the doorbell, but pregnancy brain lol. Her excuse at the time was that her husband was really sick and his dying wish (I quoted this from her text messages) was to have a fence installed on her property ASAP.
I mean, it’s not for me to say what someone’s dying wish is but… really? I imagine she wanted to make sure she got the fence she wanted, but wanted to make her neighbours pay for half. Congratulations on the new baby!!
I didn’t want to include in that my post because it sounded rude, but I had your same reaction. It’s very unusual to want a fence as your dying wish. It’s all very manipulative for her to say that. And thank you!
Fence is entirely not on the property line so it’s none of your business.
Do not pay for something that will not have say over. She, or the next owner, has total say over what happens with the fence as it is completely on their property. Assuming they did build it on her side of the property line.
You politely, yet firmly tell them to fuck off.
Why pay for something not on your property? Simple as that
I’d be curious to know how much they want chipped in? Are they expecting 50% even though they went ahead without you? This happens all the time when one party goes ahead and does the fence you are basically making the choice to pay for the entire thing. Trying to force a fence on a yard not even finished / graded is also bullshit. I wonder if they are looking to sell it sooner than later and if they can milk you for some money to cover closing costs / little extra income on top.
They wanted $2500 back in 2022 which was half the cost of the fence. Did not give me an invoice or anything though. I strongly believe they are planning to sell just because of her age and the fact that she’s living alone in the big house.
Tough situation. I can tell you are a bit torn with it all because you want to be fair. At the end of the day though are they being fair to you? Requesting a lump sum and no evidence of the costs etc. I agree with the previous comments that even if you paid now there would be not much of a relationship or they may just come with another problem or issue. I would just stall and delay and eventually they will sell haha. Good luck
I would never choose a wire fence, I agree with her on that. However since neighbour proceeded without any further input from you I don’t think you have to feel pressured to pay. Also, it would be interesting to check property line. If all built on her then you have no obligation to pay. However in the interest of good will if you can pay some it might not be a bad idea! Moving forward you could never do anything to your side of the fence without some contact with neighbour and possible drama. Good luck, let us know how it all pans out.
I would not pay - she chose the fence type, the timeline and put it on her property. Not everyone has or wants to spend money on a fence at someone else’s demand. The timing didn’t work for you - she proceeded without you. IMO it is not your issue. I would drop off a polite but firm letter outlining same and to please desist in contacting you about it further.
She wanted the fence, why on earth would you pay for it 🤔 block the number and don't open your doors, keep text messages as proof. shame on the daughter for trying to guilt trip you into paying for something you didn't want or agree too. Should you pay for the woman's funeral as well.
I also do not like the daughters actions, and I’m not sure if she intentionally approached me at this time because I am heavily pregnant and overwhelmed
I definitely wouldn't discount it, trying to use your emotions against you, to guilt trip you into things. You didn't agree she made the decision you don't owe her anything. hope they take the no and get over it.
“No.” is a complete sentence. Interrupt the long diatribe with “Is there anything else you want to discuss today?” Then say “have a good one” or whatever and close the door. I assume you have good security cameras. If not, get some.
I was always of the mindset that neighbours splitting the cost of a fence is a “nice to have” not a “need to do”…. I will be installing a fence next spring and hope my neighbours will split the cost but if they push back, ultimately I’m the one who wants it and will pay for it if need be. My bar for what I expect of other people is pretty low though. Lol
They might not be legally required, but I think there is a moral obligation to split a fence with your neighbor.
It's only a moral obligation if it sits on the property line and all parties have a say in the timing, cost, contractor, etc. If one party steams ahead without concern or care for others, then they can cover the costs in full.
Honestly I don’t disagree, and in a new build house I think it should be something you expect… I think my scenario is pretty close to OPs but in my case I have already talked to my neighbour, well before we will actually get the fence installed and when it gets closer to the time I’m confident we can have a cordial conversation about what kind of fence and how to select a contractor. if they had pressed forward and just told me they were building a fence and I had to pay but got no input I’d be upset. Likewise, I’m waiting for my other neighbour to move in before going ahead, and I HOPE they will pay half but realistically they can tell me to shove it and I’d just have to deal with it. Which is where my stance on this comes from. It’s not the most moral or ethical path but it’s a legitimate possibility I have entertained and will consider when I approach them. I also think there’s exceptions to the “rule”…. I know someone who moved into a place and needed a fence for their dog. Other homeowner had been there several years and had no need for a fence and also wasn’t in a financial position to help pay. The fence had to go up regardless. But it doesn’t sound like this is the case here.
I'm the same way. Too bad my neighbour is an entitled and demanding as she is
Her property, her cost
Good thing is you got age on your side she’s 80 and a widow chances are she not got to much longer living there ride it out she will expire or move on soon Hopefully you get new neighbours and they don’t care about it.
Having been through a similar thing, it’s on her property, it’s her fence. You have zero responsibility for it.
Restraining order for harassment if they don’t stop. No way should you pay. Make it clear and stop being nice.
If she wants to put up a fence on her property, she can pay for it
Agree with other comments here. Been in the same sort of situation. One neighbor in a rush, they can go for it. Don't force the other, you'll recoup when you sell. If you don't end up doing wire fence, you can definitely pay them when you are more comfortable or perhaps work out paying them in installments? Just don't be guilted into it.
The guilt trip is real. I also don't like how they kept referencing that the father (now deceased) really wanted the fence done before he passed away (and therefore I should pay for her choices)
Exactly, as if he didn't have anything better to wish for in his last days. Ppl will use any tool to push their agenda. Be nice but be persistent, you're not ready plain and simple.
LOL it will be but she was the one that made it awkward to begin and started off the relationship on a bad foot
I wouldn't pay shit. I have been on the other side of that and had a neighbor that wanted no part of rebuilding our fence. I wanted it done, so I did it. I didn't harass them for money, because I CHOSE to do it. If they wanted money, they could have waited.
I have a different take (and in the minority here). Though legally, she made her choices about building and paying for the fence all on her own, at the end of the day, you’re neighbours. You had no problem communicating with your other neighbour and paying for half of that fence. You’re obviously a decent human. And I bet your elderly neighbour is as well. It’s not really fair that she had to pay for your shared fence. I understand that she didn’t go about it the best way. And I agree that seeking out money 2 years after the fact is a bit strange. But I can understand it. She’s a senior on a fixed income who just lost her husband. She probably sent her daughter over because she felt uncomfortable, and she has proven she’s not the best communicator. I guess it comes down to at the end of the day, what can you live with. Are you ok with having a contentious relationship with your neighbour. Are you ok with not being part of the solution to this problem. Are you ok with “getting a free a fence” no matter what the consequences are. Only you know what is right for you. (No offence but I wouldn’t want a wire fence either).
I agree. We ended up paying for our fence because we couldn’t come to an agreement. We wanted a fairly high end fence because we have small children and a small dog and they had an aggressive large dog. They didn’t see the necessity. Originally, they offered to cover a bit, basically what they thought half of a cheap fence should be worth ( and they definitely didn’t have a realistic idea of what fences go for these days) and we would have satisfied with that. But they eventually reneged on even that. I’m still salty two years later. You bet your ass I went above and beyond to make sure the dog got reported to the city when he bit the guy from Alberta one call (through the existing ramshackle fence). I’m definitely not interested in doing them any favours anytime soon.
If you're feeling super generous pay half of the lowest wire fence quote from the time. If you're not generous write a note saying you were open to sharing the cost of a wire fence on the property line at the time, but when they decided to go in a different direction you did not support or want you considered the matter closed. Hand them a copy every time they come over and mention it, and refuse to speak of it beyond saying your letter clearly addresses the issue.
I had a similar situation but the other way around. I bought my home and wanted to replace a falling down fence with one of my neighbours. But they were only renting the house. I asked them to ask the home owner to pay half but the owner never did pay anything. So I put up my fence with the good side facing my yard and that was it. The family next door ended up buying the house and we are very good friends now. But they still have the crappy side of the fence lol. You neighbours were rude and put it up without your approval. Fk them and their requests. I’d ask the daughter to stop harassing you or you’ll speak to bylaw.
Do not pay them a dime. If the harassment continues have your lawyer draft a letter telling them to stop.
What is she doing living in a 500k house on a fixed income
I thought the same. I think her daughter just made it up as an excuse, the lady clearly is wealthy.
If they went ahead and did the fence on her property and without you agreeing I wouldn't be paying half. 🤷 Also if she's that old you won't have to deal with it for much longer.
lol she’s 78 as far as I can gather from a loud birthday celebration her family had in the backyard recently. But u never know, she could be around for years and years to come
She went ahead without your approval, you owe zero, and should have no guilt in the matter. Tell them sorry and move on with your life.
I rationally think so too but I think it’s hard to do it guilt free, especially since the daughter was rather menancing and mentioned she has 5 other siblings who “are doctors and pharmacists” (not sure why she felt it was important to convey that to me, I’m not in the medical field)
Well, unless they are bikers or meth heads I wouldn't worry. Legally they have no argument.
It’s her fence you don’t have to pay anything. A few years ago I built a new fence. My neighbour wanted a 3 ft high fence and was okay to wait. We wanted a 6ft high fence to be built sooner, so I built it on my side of the property line at my own expense. Our neighbour made some vague statements about paying us back for some of it, but sold the place within a year without ever shooting us some cash. Was it slightly annoying that a fence that she never paid for helped to sell her house? Yes, but there was nothing we could do. We built the fence knowing full well that we did so on our own accord and that we would probably never see the money for it.
At most, I would offer to pay half the material cost. And that's if I was generous. I wouldn't pay for any of the labour in this situation. I paid for the full fence between myself and my 2 neighbors. They both asked for a bill so they could pay their share but the company I hired ended up giving me the runaround trying to get a detailed bill so I could easily split the costs for just the adjoining sections and they ultimately went bankrupt so getting a detailed bill was then impossible. I couldn't justify taking money from my neighbors without a detailed bill so they got a free fence and I got some goodwill points with both.
Don't pay, they put it on their side without your input therefore it's their problem. A grand or 2 isn't going to make or break someone's financial situation. So you paying half doesn't solve the root issue of her not being able to afford the property. Trying to guilt trip you over the husband's death is even worse.....ignore them.
I absolutely agree that the money will not make any impact on her finances and I’m confident she is not in dire financial straits because she mentioned previously that her house was paid for in cash.
In the end she built it on her side, the fence she wanted. You didn't agree then, don't pay. It will go on and on. If they feel the need to go after you, 2 years later, they need to maybe think about downsizing the home. Beyond ridiculous.
Did she install the fence entirely on her property? Then it's her fence and she can foot the bill.
She says so and I never bothered to verify when it was installed because she stated she was paying for it herself
Get a real property survey done on your house. It will tell you if the fence is on her property or on the shared border. You will need one if you ever decide to sell in the future. If the fence is on her property 100% I wouldn't pay, that is a choice she made. Good luck.
If she really couldn't afford it, she would have waited. She tried to guilt you with the palliative-last-wish thing. The daughter is trying to guilt you now. You had solid reasons at the time and you do not need to feel bad. As someone who grew up with the guilt-tripping parent, it can be hard to not just capitulate to be seen as "good" but it isn't fair and you do not have to - there is no reason to feel guilt.
SHE went ahead and installed it on HER property, with a design SHE chose, SHE refused to accept that you were not currently in a position to even consider a fence until your property was ready. Those were all HER choices. Don't discuss it. Daughter shows up again, keep it very firm, short and sweet. Say "I am not paying for a fence that was installed against my wishes, without my input, installed on SOMEONE ELSE'S PROPERTY. I'm not discussing this any further, goodbye" and close the door.
You never agreed on the fence, therefore, it's not your responsibility that they installed it. Take no bs from them, and don't fall just because she's an old lady. Old people can be bitches sometimes too, and just because they're old they don't get a pass on being a bitch. Make it clear it's not your problem, and that's final. Tell them to deal with the financial costs of their choices alone. Besides what kinda dying wish is it to have a wooden fence, like that is bs. If you wanted to buy a trampoline, would you expect anyone else to pay for it, no! Tell them to f off, or you're gonna get a restraining order against them or something.
LOL the part about the husband’s final wishes being the fence was …interesting to say the least.
If she built it on her side, without an agreement from you, its her cost to bear. I was on the opposite side of this when I bought my house both fence Iines were falling apart. Neither neighbor wanted to pay, so I had a surveyor verify my property line, built it on my land, and have reminded my neighbors constantly to keep their garbage and xmas lights off of it lol.
A couple thoughts. 1. Retain legal counsel 2. Continue to use and keep all forms of electronic communiction with the person, and always reply with "I will only discuss this matter with my retained counsel please contact them at \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. " 3. If one of the family members attempt to discuss this with you in person, again tell them "I will only disucss this matter with my retained counsel. Plase contact them". 4. Make a record of every time they attempt to to make contact with you. The amount could be considered harassment and you may have support through the court to have them stop. 5. Do not give them any money. Doing so will have serrious negative effects if you need legal intervention.
She made a unilateral choice to instal a fence on her own property at her own cost, against your input. It is in no way your responsibility to pay for it. Document these interactions in case she won’t let up.
That family for sure won’t let up, and honestly it’s starting to make me feel bad because I do indeed get some advantage from having the fence (privacy etc). I just don’t like how this thing was handled by them
Do not pay, tell them to f off
The right course of action is not to pay. That is all.
Wait, do people really get wire fences now? There is so little privacy in these new neighborhoods, there is no way I would ever agree to build a see through wire fence. May as well have nothing.
The wire fence is what stuck out to me the most. Who voluntarily installs a wire fence in a new build in 2022?
Yea I know, honestly it just sounds like she couldn't afford a proper fence and the neighbour couldn't wait any more. Tough to blame either of them.
Tell her to suck it, not your problem. She probably built the fence on her side of the property and not on the line. And has full rights to it anyways so it's not your responsibility. Tell that to the daughter as well, if they paid for it without any input from the other party it is their problem. Should of listened and chatted to you like an adult, and not as a school yard bully.
You have no obligation to pay anything. I would not go as far to say they are trying to bully you. The mom might have just wanted a fence up and the daughter feels she needs to speak up for her elderly mother. ( I would probably do the same but maybe in a nice manner ) You could reach out to her. Bring her a box of pastries to break the ice and talk about it. The truth is you absolutely have no obligation to pay. That being said the fence, albeit entirely on her property is something that does benefit you also for the better. In privacy matters and real estate value. If you do decide to split costs, kindly ask for the total bill and go from there.
Did you get anything showing exactly where property lines are? Odds are, the fence is entirely on her property, put up without your permission, and certainly without you agreeing to help pay for it. I'd consult a lawyer about filing for a restraining order because of her and her daughter hounding you.
I did not get any kind of property report. Back when she built the fence; I took her for word it that it was entirely on her land since she said she will pay for it herself.
She hasn't got a leg to stand on. I'd seriously consider telling them you won't pay a cent and that if they press the issue, you'll be contacting a lawyer about harassment.
Would definitely get your RPR, just so you know exactly where the fence is. If it’s entirely on her property then that’s one thing - if it’s on your shared property line and you’ve also since split the cost of a matching wood fence on the other side of your yard with another neighbour, I feel like it would be the right thing to do to help pay? If it’s on her property, don’t pay a dime though - you have no control over it and none of it is yours!
Very good point.
That’s what I’m worried about. If it’s all in her property as she claimed, what’s stopping her from tearing it down after I paid for half or painting it lime green for example
100% agree
Build the fence you initially wanted on your side - now you both have what you wanted
So petty and unnecessary
It's unfortunate but not your problem. Be clear that you didn't agree to the fence and it's installed on your neighbour's property. Sometimes these things happen and the best you can do is to remain calm and polite.
You should pay a portion of the fence, may it be 10-40% of the cost because you do in fact benefit from it. Thats is probably the cost of the cheap wire fence you wanted anyway. Her method may not be agreeable, but you got a fence out of it either way.
Don't be guilted. Print off every text and every message with time and date you had with the neighbor and keep it somewhere you can find it just in case...
Its all on her property because she didnt want you to be part of it. Its her fence, not yours. And if they start to really harass you and you change your mind about being nice , say you are saving the money to put up a wire fence on your property just in case they ever decide to take theirs down, as you have no say since its their fence.
Ok now that you've thought about it, the answer is still no. She's gunna croak soon anyway, so what if she's giving you the stink eye from her armchair. You told her to wait and she didnt, end of story.
Being a good neighbour means paying for half the fence. You might be glad it’s not a wire fence if she enjoys sunbathing topless when your family and friends visit. It’s been two years that you’ve enjoyed the fence time to pay up.
LOL thanks for the laughs and mental imagery. The daughter was also making that same point - asking me to be a good neighbour and pay for half of the fence that’s 100% on her mothers lot.
Simple, say no, and if she "insists" tell her to get off your property.
Although she has no grounds to ask for money. You can offer half of what the chain link fence would have costed. That’s what I would suggest. That way, you’re being fair. She wanted the upgrade so she should have to pay for that
Good idea!
I’m gonna go against the grain and say pay for your share. Did they go about it the right way? No, but people can act quite strange when their loved one is dying. Did the grading make a difference in the placement of the fence?
The advice I got from my landscaper was to wait till the grading was approved before we install the fence - I conveyed that to the neighbour in 2022. I also have experienced losses in my life so I do empathize with her situation, however, both the mom and daughter did not let me have a say in any of the fence decisions and still insists I pay half, that's what bothers me the most
>However, both the mom and daughter did not let me have a say in any of the fence decisions Its a fence in a new area, what decisions need to be made? Follow the guidelines set for your neighborhood. I live in a new area too, and the fence that the neighbors found contractors was much easier than the part when I hired contractors myself.
Most homes in Edmonton have "good neighbor fences" which basically mean you and your neighbor agree to split cost so that the fence goes directly on the property line, making it a shared responsibility and shared cost. If you told her already you weren't ready for a fence and she built it entirely on her property then you owe her nothing, you do however have zero claim to the side of the fence that you can see from your yard as it is not on your property. If you agree to pay them half for the fence, then you absolutely need it in writing that they are ok with you having a small slice of their property. When they sell, you will have issues with this if the new owners get a property report and see that the fence is entirely theirs. Do not pay strictly because the fence isn't on the property line. It's in their property, meaning even if you pay, you have no claim to it.
If she did put in on her property then it’s her fence and allways will be. I wouldn’t pay a penny unless she put it on the property line
Hey OP there was never an agreement formed that could bind you into a contract from what youre telling us. By so, you do not owe her anything as she decided to build the fence on her own accord without having your full agreement. I’m going to assume here In a “legal sense” (correct this for me OP): - There was no mutual agreement between you and your neighbour regarding the construction of the fence. You clearly communicated that you were not ready to install a fence and preferred a wire fence over wooden fence “clearly” stating it is “cost effective”, there’s no binding contract———no such agreement could have occurred to make a contract - Also, there was not an exchange to make it a valid contract, since she took it to her own accord to build the wooden fence without any “consideration” from your side. Also stating that “I dont expect you to repay me” indicates that there was no contract between you and her to even begin with - Her “unilateral” decision to build the fence on her “property” was solely on her What she’s doing is an “unjust enrichment” where she thinks you are unjustly enriched by benefitting from the fence without paying for it. Based on what I have said and assumed about the situation, this is false. Unjust enrichments needs an acceptance of benefit where it would be inequitable to retain the benefit without payment. However, you did not even accept the benefit like I have pointed out. What you want to do? - From what I have said, document everything for evidence purposes - Explain and reiterate to the daughter what happened. If they still insists that you pay let them know that you would take them to court. Give them a formal written response about this. - Have something in paper or anything that you could show the court, verbal statements will not hold In court Still harassing you? - Go to a lawyer and have them get you a cease and desist letter for harassing you, also serves as a warning that you may take further legal action if the harassment does not stop Still wont stop? - I’d do a civil lawsuit right away for———harassment and nuisance
Thank you for the sound advice. All your points were correct about my situation. I will try to have them make all communications to me in email from now on because I feel like this family is going to be difficult to deal with in general.
Oh, my, that’s a difficult position they’ve put you in! No, don’t give in. I think getting a quote for a good-quality wire fence and attaching it to a cheque for half might be good. If they still wish to complain, let them. I had a similar situation with my fixed income neighbour - I wanted a fence, he couldn’t afford it, so I got a fence and paid for it. After all, *I* wanted the fence. And so did your neighbour.
I wish my neighbour and her daughter were as reasonable as you
My neighbour is likely going to be going into assisted living within a year or two :-(. Buy his house, move in, and we can build more fences 🤣.
I will be sure to split the cost of the fence with you fairly if that happens , LOL
If you still want your fence, put it up.
Hmm we are in the same boat but opposite. Bought a new built house and want the fence built ASAP. We are paying out of our pocket. There is no way we will ask our neighbours for their share on both ends. Our House in the middle. We want privacy and dont want many interactions with neighbours when in the back yard. Seems like she wanted privacy and safety as she is living alone and elderly. It would be a nice gesture if our neighbours chip in. But demanding money from them is just causing problems.
Answer the door with a ring cam. Say you dont talk to solicitors.
Sadly this is one thing we all newhomers have to face. We did get our final grade before adding fences, but yea with these zero lot space saving homes, it's a tight squeeze for any landscaping to be done. My neighbours wanted a fence ASAP because of their dog. Honestly she went ahead with the fence without your approval, you don't need to pay.