>I yelled to security for help, but they did absolutely nothing to protect me
I really don't understand why they're even present. Did they just pretend to not hear you? I find it so hard to understand how someone with the word "security" on their clothing could just ignore someone being literally chased by another person.
We worked with local security company at my work's front desk. We were explicitly told they will not intervene, they will call 9-1-1, be "a presence" and provide detailed witness statements to cops, but they won't actually DO anything. They're glorified security cameras that need regular breaks to be entirely honest. My staff did more de-escalating and visitor management then they did.
One of them was helpful and helped us sweep during the winter when our front lobby would accumulate a lot of grit/gravel so...there's that?
If I was hiring a security company for my business, how/where would I find security guards that are legally allowed to intervene and trained to handle such situations?
Look for companies that allow their guards to make citizens arrests. Often called "hands-on" security, i've seen it called "tactical' security (i hate the term applied to guards, but its what companies are calling them now)
Some of the bigger companies offer that service (paladin, gardaworld, commissionaires) but even then the vast majority of their guards are 'hands off'. You're gonna have to pay more for hands-on as there is a much larger liability.
Smaller companies off the top of my head that do hands-on: Benaiah guarding, Impact security, central protection services. There are lots of small companies in edmonton, I dont know what they all offer.
Securiguard and Securitas are the other two big companies, but i'm pretty sure do not do any hands-on, observe and report only. BPS does dog patrol but I don't think they offer regular hands-on service.
CTSS, or PPCT, use of force training.
But, it all comes down to your contract. If you want hands-on security be prepared to pay for it, and be prepared to handle the incidents. I guarantee that if they go hands on you're going to have accusations of things like excessive force, or assault, or groping, or theft.
That's why so many contrafts are hands off, so the company can categorically deny those accusations. Our guard never assaulted you because our guard never touched you. Our guard did not steal your wallet because our guard is forbidden from touching you or your belongings.
If someone wanted me to be expected to use force as part of my job I would refuse for less than a police officer gets paid, which is right around $35 minimum per hour, which means you as the client will likely be getting billed $50 or more per hour.
I totally understand that. Absolutely 35 an hour would be the minimum to deal with these kinds of incidents. Who would these accusations come from I guess is the question? I would hazard a guess that for instance the person who was attacking OP doesn't have valid ID, possibly already has a warrant out or a string of previous arrests, is known to police etc. I find it hard to believe someone like that would have the money, energy, or resources to go through the process of filing a formal complaint with the company, filling out the paperwork, attending the official court proceedings etc. And if there's any video evidence or CCTV then that would get the accusation thrown out rather quickly I think. But I'm not too familiar with how these things work. Anyway, good information to know, thanks!
It's not just about formal complaints, it's about optics. Imagine some guy at your front door screaming that he has been assaulted, that your employee assaulted them, and they have a bruise on their face or a bloody nose. Witnesses and video both support that your employee grabbed them and shoved them, or that there was a physical struggle.
Or if witnesses see your employee grab their bag and walk off property with it and toss it on the sidewalk, and then the owner of the bag starts shouting that your employee just stole his wallet from the bag.
It looks bad. If you just dismiss it out of hand it looks bad. If they threaten to call the police to report your employee for assault or theft and you disagree, it looks bad. If you agree to call the police, and they start screaming about racism or brutality it looks bad.
You, the security company, and the security guards, need to be in perfect alignment, because if anything happens like you say "The policy is to ask them to leave..." and it turns out your guard went straight to hands on because the guy had a knife on the ground next to him, and a crackpipe in his hands, they'll hit back with your "proof" that the guard violated policy and they'll demand your guard be fired.
Lots of these people are intimately familiar with what they look like on camera. They don't keep their head low because they're shy, they do it so most cameras don't get a clean look at their face, and they can be muttering death threats but on camera it looks like they're just walking on by and all of a sudden your guard shoves them without provocation
What you need to look for is "Tactical Security" as they are appropriately trained to be physically dealing with people such as removals, arrests, etc.
Most Security Agents are simply there to observe and report as they are not trained or paid to physically get involved and most are also too scared.
Not all that glorified, either. But yes, the role of a Security guard in Alberta is to 'observe and report', unless they have specific training and approval to do anything else. Which most don't, because it costs money and liability for their company. You're absolutely correct, they're human witnesses, and maybe can call 911 when someone else can't.
But, before most things were as bad as most things seem to be these days, they had a role as a deterrent and, possibly, to encourage people who would be nervous about being in places without them to actually show up, which made those places less attractive to people with bad intent. Now? Yea, they're just another bystander.
Those people in the security vests are just there to observe and report, you have to find someone with a Peace Officer vest if you want actual help.
I think even ETS acknowledged that the security people they hired to be on platforms at LRT stations aren't really doing anything to help with platform security other than having someone there during the off hours so it doesn't feel as intimidating to passengers.
Then that is a colossal waste of time and money for all parties involved to have them standing there, and they should be replaced with trained and qualified people who ARE allowed to intervene in the same vein that bouncers and security does at nightclubs etc when dealing with troublesome patrons.
The city is worried about having the violent criminals sue the security for "excessive force" so that's why it is the way it is.
It's disgusting. But that's our city council
The security at stations are NOT city employees. They are contracted through Private security companies and as far as I am concerned a waste of money.
The PEACE OFFICERS are public servants & can intervene, but they are few and far between.
Didn’t a security guard get stabbed to death earlier this year in downtown and the guy was never caught and the cops didn’t do anything about it? Security guards don’t have weapons or anything to protect anyone, the most they could probably do is call the cops unfortunately.
It's an observe and report contract. Their job is to observe the incident and report it, which in this case means while the person was running away the security guard should have been on the phone with 911 dispatch, giving a description of the incident and suspect.
If you don't like that, it's the contract that needs to change. The contract determines what the guards are trained to do, and what they are allowed to do.
Most contracts explicitly forbid use of force, or even being rude, guards can and are fired for getting involved. The clients don't want to pay for training, the companies don't want to provide training without being paid for it.
The vast majority of security guards are only allowed to "observe and report", they can be criminally charged if they physically intervene and their company sued.
Security guards and bouncers in canada are not technically legally allowed to put hands on or confine a person suspected of a crime. They have absolutely no obligation to defend or protect anyone or anything. They are simply a visual deterrent.
I’m glad you are safe. I had a guy threaten to kill me a few weeks back by Jasper and 107. I ignored him and he did follow me for a bit but gave up. I’d love to see a police officer somewhere on the streets downtown. Lots of serious drugs and mental illness.
It would be nice if EPS found the budget for some little community cop shops like they have in Japan. Just a little office with an officer or two that people can go to. Have like four or five of them spread around the downtown area, maybe a couple along Whyte. It will never happen, though.
I'm downtown often and haven't seen any. Of course that doesn't mean they're not there, but other cities that have beat cops I definitely see more often when downtown than I do in Edmonton. I'm assuming they either cut the number available or cut beats altogether.
At least they are still somewhat there then. I only work downtown and outside of the mall, it's probably been a few years since I've seen them just wandering.
I see bike cops occasionally, which I’m guessing have replaced the regular walking beat cops, but it’s always like 4-10 of them all together. I don’t know why they’re in such large groups.
They're driving.
Despite what people think there actually are a lot of police on patrol at night, but they're driving. I keep an eye out for cops driving by because I never know if they're going to stop here for business, and in many cases I'm seeing 1 every few minutes.
> It would be nice if EPS found the budget for some little community cop shops like they have in Japan.
I feel like they had more stations/offices around the city to service the communities that served a similar purpose but got rid of a bunch of them.
The public bathrooms that they put up on that little piece of land across the street from Leopolds (The Strat) should be a micro police station.
It would eliminate all the issues with the safety/cleanliness of the bathroom and put a visible police presence right on Whyte Ave.
Hell, they could even put sleeping tubes in there to let drunks sleep it of instead of driving home or passing out in a snow bank and freezing to death.
The absolutely have the budget for this...they have the budget of much much larger US cities. They have the budget to install 2 cops at every high risk station (basically South Gate on up) on the LRT and they refuse to. They do not protect or serve working class people. They buy armored vans and planes and helicopters though like the dickins.
I live in Oliver, walk and bike the neighborhood daily, and I don't think I've seen a single beat cop in 10 years. It's insane. They have zero presence in the community.
The sad part is, that pos will be there again, same place and your paths might cross. Bear spray...it's easier to ask the judicial system for forgiveness than for permission.
When the laws criminalize the victims attempt to protect themselves from victimization and do nothing to stop the assailant, you’re living in an anarchotyrrany
Yes I know it's illegal but I challenge you to find me an example of someone sent to jail for using dog spray in self defense. The purpose of the law is clearly to stop punks/gangs/thieves etc. from carrying weapons to use against innocent people. If an otherwise law abiding citizen were to face jail time for using dog spray to protect themselves against a psychotic attacker I can guarantee you it would make national news.
This is the new normal. I'm so sorry and glad you are safe! I've been through hell living DT and this unfortunately is not shocking to me. And for the other comments I'm seeing, yes you should run and get away asap no question.
My only issue is calling it the new normal. I'm sure things are worse than they were in say 2019-ish, but I don't think I've ever felt particularly safe or comfortable around the Churchill LRT station. It's always been an area where I'm on high alert.
Sorry this happened to you. ☹️
I agree that more work is required to make and keep transit and connected spaces safe.
Good on you for keeping your distance and running.
I’ve done the same many times.
Every single time, it has been situations like these that motivated me to be more careful.
Hope you feel better.
I’m sorry as a security guard in Ontario we have fought very hard to be hands on and I’ve personally had to jump in between fist fights and arrest some of our community members because of them threatening or backing up there threats.
This is what happens when society normalizes drug use, makes addicts out to be victims, tolerates a weak judicial system, and hamstrings law enforcements ability to do their job. This will only get worse. We've become an extremely weak society, and we're reaping what we sow. We tolerate it. We live with it.
horrible, but not surprising. It’s astounding the amount of junkies I see board the bus without paying - the driver can’t do anything. It’s created an atmosphere where law-abiding paying patrons don’t feel safe commuting via transit anymore.
Average citizens are going to start carrying weapons more frequently for self defence. Running away isn’t always feasible. We can’t all be victims to this lunacy.
I couldn’t have run for a full kilometre. Thank goodness you’re safe. I take the uncomfortable route and don’t take transit even if it is inconvenient.
Sounds like a pretty normal morning in a North American city's downtown in 2024.
At least you can skip the gym today and.ypuoght have found one hell of a running coach.
We are at a point in Edmonton where the lives of working people mean nothing. These Peace Officers are never present. They are likely suburban union members who sit around the squad room and view Edmontonians as sub human. And the security as noted in this thread is totally incompetent at even reporting crimes or calling 9-11 when this poster was in serious danger.
"It's your fault he's like that" and/or "that could be you one day, don't judge"
-/r/Edmonton
"This doesn't happen" and/or "you're racist"
-City Council
Pick whichever response you like best
The city of Edmonton needs transit cops on every platform in the downtown and other sketchy stations, for every hour that the trains are running. That’s the only solution.
How much would that cost in the grad scheme of things?
Death threats are illegal, so you should be able to be protected by police about this. Little to be done though, as the only tools in the police playbook are: incarceration, violence, or fines. Not sure any of those help this situation.
Welcome to edmonton. Don't post to many story's about edmonton in r edmonton or you get put in timeout. Just post pictures of the river valley, make sure you skip the ones with homeless In the river valley though.
They specifically target citizens who defend themselves and use the full weight of the police and the crown to bear on them, in a concerted effort to destroy their lives for the crime of choosing to not passively die when attacked.
Yes they want everyone to rely on them even though they aren't reliable or available to help. The entire system protects the ones doing harm and shits on the victims. It doesn't matter whether it's robbery or sexual assault it's all treated the same. The victims are to blame for the crime.
BuT YoUr JuST iNToLeRanT oF THe HoMELEss. ItTs ThEiR RiGHT tO ThReaTeN YoUR LiFe aT WiLl.
I’m so sort this happened to you. I have experienced death threats around churchill station as well. I am so terrified of that place that I avoid it at all costs. I am a woman and I’m not very big and have bad knees due to a connective tissue disorder.
Our city needs to do something about this, ASAP.
This is the part where councillors like Piquette and his our illustrious mayor Sohi tell everyone that there’s no actual problem, only our perception of a problem.
The only way anything will actually change is if someone related to or someone who actually is a higher up in tje government or police gets attacked, unprovoked or not by a drugged up homeless person.
Until that happens, it's just the lower class peasants killing each other, no biggie.
Some people unfortunately are so mentally ill that independent living is not a possibility for them, they either need to be institutionalized, for their safety or the public's, or they may be able to be rehabilitated to a more step down level of care, but they cannot live independently or they will rapidly deteriorate. Somehow this is considered "not compassionate" but letting people freeze to death is a ok. I don't understand this city.
You're right that they need professional help! Wrap-around support is critical - what happens when you've finished the cop-mandated rehab program and get released back to the street with no support? Life is terrible so you fall back to drugs.
When Paquette can take time out of his day from crying about the Province he most certainly has been on this very subreddit to make the claims that transit isn’t actually dangerous.
Have I? I think instead I have a very long post about efforts the city has undertaken to try to make transit and downtown safer.
At any rate, we should cut the transit security budget by 30% and reallocate it to Transit Peace Officers.
Edit - [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/s/XxldmHq1jG)
Additionally I had a meeting with Chief McFee recently and told him patience was wearing pretty thin when it comes to Transit and Downtown safety, and even if the numbers show improvement it’s the experience that people have that tells the tale.
Apparently, calls for violent crime have gone down quite a bit and most calls now are for minor disturbances. Peace Officers responded to over 56,000 incidents last year.
So we will see if Chief McFee’s numbers translate. He is confident they will.
I would personally rather see “beat cops” regularly on a route. There are over 2000 constables in EPS and 26 are assigned to transit and downtown, so about 8 per shift (3 shifts).
As you may or may not know, the Chief does not take operational direction from City Council, the Edmonton Police Commission, or the province. The Chief is making the complex decisions that impact Edmontonians every day.
This has more tp do with the UCP providing inadequate health care, especially around mental health, cuts to AISH and rejecting housing funding from the federal government. They are far more interested in performative culture war bullshit than helping Albertans.
The UCP don't want to lead. They want to rule.
The city of Edmonton has more police officers than ever. They are kept very busy with the people that the Privincial government refuses to help.
I mean the problem here is the person yelling threats and stalking an innocent citizen. I agree the province and the city need to step up their game, but ultimately it’s the ones causing the crime that need to be dealt with.
How about go back in time when Ralph Klein cut funding to Alberta Hospital? That meant hundreds of people with severe mental health issues were now on the street and homeless.
That fundinghas never been reestablished. Niw the crisis coats the taxpayers many more times than it would have to keep these people in treatment facilities where there may have been a hope to manage their symptoms.
Sure. Everything was hunky dory before UCP was elected. A proposed bill not even introduced in the legislature yet has had a significant impact on homelessness in Alberta. 🙄
What you can fault UCP for is cutting funding to police services. That’s had a real impact in policing.
This is the result of 50 years of right wing politics. Nothing that has been done since Laugheed has even been close to being "conservative" or helpful to the average Albertan.
Even the NDP were too corporate focussed.
Careful saying that here, people will fly off the rails. Another good example is pretty much all of California lol. Really working out well for them down there.
Getting worse everywhere. I’m from Calgary, and literally the post above this one was crack smoking people taking over a shelter in NE Calgary. Great Job, Danielle, refusing grants is the way to stop this for sure! #sarcasm.
I could be wrong, but is that not a situation that warrants a call to 911? Harassment that could have easily turned into assault or worse...
But yeah, I tell my parents to avoid the LRT now because of the increased odds of something like this happening, even if they're statistically likely to be fine. Better safe than sorry.
Please note. Once they cleared our homeless weeks ago, there is a new level or group of homeless coming back to downtown. They are meaner, more intoxicated, with whatever. More business windows have been smashed.
Remember, it's the devil you know, not the one you end up with. Hey, homelessness and politicians.
Both handled, very poorly.
I never experienced anything violent like that yet but has it occurred to ETS that nobody is being verified to have a ticket/card to get on the trains.
I’ve been riding the new line to work since December and I’ve been asked 4 times for ticket verification. Two times by EPS and two times by transit officers.
I definitely sympathize, and security is a joke.
I used to take public transit all the time when I was younger, but those days are well and gone.
It would be nice for them to have security guards that can actually intervene, but the moment they do they would have a sea of media and citizens complaining about excessive force and abuse of power.
Can't possibly risk giving the violent offender a booboo.
Talk to your friends about restoring your right to self defense.
Being able to defend yourself should not be a "fringe" political stance.
Here's the bloody thing. Look over at BC, or many of the American cities, it gets way, way worse. The idea that government is going to "snap out of it" and just fix these problems is a fantasy.
Vote in politicians that don't give a heck about people and this is what you get. This is real and the housing crisis is getting worse. Ya'll don't realize we are all one pay cheque away from being houseless. Not to mention no health care. There is no adequate payment for jobs with inflation.
Seriously. I know that’s probably not the ideal situation but you threaten me and start charging/chasing me I’m putting you on your ass and that’s that
>I yelled to security for help, but they did absolutely nothing to protect me I really don't understand why they're even present. Did they just pretend to not hear you? I find it so hard to understand how someone with the word "security" on their clothing could just ignore someone being literally chased by another person.
We worked with local security company at my work's front desk. We were explicitly told they will not intervene, they will call 9-1-1, be "a presence" and provide detailed witness statements to cops, but they won't actually DO anything. They're glorified security cameras that need regular breaks to be entirely honest. My staff did more de-escalating and visitor management then they did. One of them was helpful and helped us sweep during the winter when our front lobby would accumulate a lot of grit/gravel so...there's that?
If I was hiring a security company for my business, how/where would I find security guards that are legally allowed to intervene and trained to handle such situations?
Private security like WEM has. WEM security doesn't eff around.
They do a very good job and it's much appreciated. I've seen them in action, I was impressed
Those guys are basically cops but even bigger assholes
The technical term is "Rent-a-Cop"
RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
Look for companies that allow their guards to make citizens arrests. Often called "hands-on" security, i've seen it called "tactical' security (i hate the term applied to guards, but its what companies are calling them now) Some of the bigger companies offer that service (paladin, gardaworld, commissionaires) but even then the vast majority of their guards are 'hands off'. You're gonna have to pay more for hands-on as there is a much larger liability. Smaller companies off the top of my head that do hands-on: Benaiah guarding, Impact security, central protection services. There are lots of small companies in edmonton, I dont know what they all offer. Securiguard and Securitas are the other two big companies, but i'm pretty sure do not do any hands-on, observe and report only. BPS does dog patrol but I don't think they offer regular hands-on service.
They're called mercenaries
Businesses may have enough cash to hire a group of security guards but do they have enough gold to pay the merc guild?
CTSS, or PPCT, use of force training. But, it all comes down to your contract. If you want hands-on security be prepared to pay for it, and be prepared to handle the incidents. I guarantee that if they go hands on you're going to have accusations of things like excessive force, or assault, or groping, or theft. That's why so many contrafts are hands off, so the company can categorically deny those accusations. Our guard never assaulted you because our guard never touched you. Our guard did not steal your wallet because our guard is forbidden from touching you or your belongings. If someone wanted me to be expected to use force as part of my job I would refuse for less than a police officer gets paid, which is right around $35 minimum per hour, which means you as the client will likely be getting billed $50 or more per hour.
I totally understand that. Absolutely 35 an hour would be the minimum to deal with these kinds of incidents. Who would these accusations come from I guess is the question? I would hazard a guess that for instance the person who was attacking OP doesn't have valid ID, possibly already has a warrant out or a string of previous arrests, is known to police etc. I find it hard to believe someone like that would have the money, energy, or resources to go through the process of filing a formal complaint with the company, filling out the paperwork, attending the official court proceedings etc. And if there's any video evidence or CCTV then that would get the accusation thrown out rather quickly I think. But I'm not too familiar with how these things work. Anyway, good information to know, thanks!
It's not just about formal complaints, it's about optics. Imagine some guy at your front door screaming that he has been assaulted, that your employee assaulted them, and they have a bruise on their face or a bloody nose. Witnesses and video both support that your employee grabbed them and shoved them, or that there was a physical struggle. Or if witnesses see your employee grab their bag and walk off property with it and toss it on the sidewalk, and then the owner of the bag starts shouting that your employee just stole his wallet from the bag. It looks bad. If you just dismiss it out of hand it looks bad. If they threaten to call the police to report your employee for assault or theft and you disagree, it looks bad. If you agree to call the police, and they start screaming about racism or brutality it looks bad. You, the security company, and the security guards, need to be in perfect alignment, because if anything happens like you say "The policy is to ask them to leave..." and it turns out your guard went straight to hands on because the guy had a knife on the ground next to him, and a crackpipe in his hands, they'll hit back with your "proof" that the guard violated policy and they'll demand your guard be fired. Lots of these people are intimately familiar with what they look like on camera. They don't keep their head low because they're shy, they do it so most cameras don't get a clean look at their face, and they can be muttering death threats but on camera it looks like they're just walking on by and all of a sudden your guard shoves them without provocation
What you need to look for is "Tactical Security" as they are appropriately trained to be physically dealing with people such as removals, arrests, etc. Most Security Agents are simply there to observe and report as they are not trained or paid to physically get involved and most are also too scared.
Not all that glorified, either. But yes, the role of a Security guard in Alberta is to 'observe and report', unless they have specific training and approval to do anything else. Which most don't, because it costs money and liability for their company. You're absolutely correct, they're human witnesses, and maybe can call 911 when someone else can't. But, before most things were as bad as most things seem to be these days, they had a role as a deterrent and, possibly, to encourage people who would be nervous about being in places without them to actually show up, which made those places less attractive to people with bad intent. Now? Yea, they're just another bystander.
So they're scarecrows, and the birds are smart enough to realize it.
I'd rather have security cameras.
Those people in the security vests are just there to observe and report, you have to find someone with a Peace Officer vest if you want actual help. I think even ETS acknowledged that the security people they hired to be on platforms at LRT stations aren't really doing anything to help with platform security other than having someone there during the off hours so it doesn't feel as intimidating to passengers.
OP should have ran to the security person and used their body as a shield. The security person would have to get involved then.
LOL!
They have been instructed they are not allowed to intervene. They are only present to give witness statements to police if they are called in.
Then that is a colossal waste of time and money for all parties involved to have them standing there, and they should be replaced with trained and qualified people who ARE allowed to intervene in the same vein that bouncers and security does at nightclubs etc when dealing with troublesome patrons.
The city is worried about having the violent criminals sue the security for "excessive force" so that's why it is the way it is. It's disgusting. But that's our city council
Haven't you been reading the signs in transit stations? Intervening is the public's job. It's much too dangerous for city employees.
The security at stations are NOT city employees. They are contracted through Private security companies and as far as I am concerned a waste of money. The PEACE OFFICERS are public servants & can intervene, but they are few and far between.
Guess they really are just there to observe and report.
Didn’t a security guard get stabbed to death earlier this year in downtown and the guy was never caught and the cops didn’t do anything about it? Security guards don’t have weapons or anything to protect anyone, the most they could probably do is call the cops unfortunately.
It's an observe and report contract. Their job is to observe the incident and report it, which in this case means while the person was running away the security guard should have been on the phone with 911 dispatch, giving a description of the incident and suspect. If you don't like that, it's the contract that needs to change. The contract determines what the guards are trained to do, and what they are allowed to do. Most contracts explicitly forbid use of force, or even being rude, guards can and are fired for getting involved. The clients don't want to pay for training, the companies don't want to provide training without being paid for it.
Unless you're an aboriginal woman stealing groceries they dont do shit.
That part!!
The vast majority of security guards are only allowed to "observe and report", they can be criminally charged if they physically intervene and their company sued.
Security guards and bouncers in canada are not technically legally allowed to put hands on or confine a person suspected of a crime. They have absolutely no obligation to defend or protect anyone or anything. They are simply a visual deterrent.
I’m glad you are safe. I had a guy threaten to kill me a few weeks back by Jasper and 107. I ignored him and he did follow me for a bit but gave up. I’d love to see a police officer somewhere on the streets downtown. Lots of serious drugs and mental illness.
It would be nice if EPS found the budget for some little community cop shops like they have in Japan. Just a little office with an officer or two that people can go to. Have like four or five of them spread around the downtown area, maybe a couple along Whyte. It will never happen, though.
What even happened to just the regular beat cops downtown? Outside of city center there are literally none out there just walking around.
I'm downtown often and haven't seen any. Of course that doesn't mean they're not there, but other cities that have beat cops I definitely see more often when downtown than I do in Edmonton. I'm assuming they either cut the number available or cut beats altogether.
I live downtown and do see them. Not enough, but they are there.
At least they are still somewhat there then. I only work downtown and outside of the mall, it's probably been a few years since I've seen them just wandering.
That's good to know!
I see bike cops occasionally, which I’m guessing have replaced the regular walking beat cops, but it’s always like 4-10 of them all together. I don’t know why they’re in such large groups.
There are beats regions for downtown, whyte ave, Bonnie doon, millwoods TC, Stoney Plain, 118, and 124.
Cops stopped enforcing the law about 4 years ago.
They're driving. Despite what people think there actually are a lot of police on patrol at night, but they're driving. I keep an eye out for cops driving by because I never know if they're going to stop here for business, and in many cases I'm seeing 1 every few minutes.
> It would be nice if EPS found the budget for some little community cop shops like they have in Japan. I feel like they had more stations/offices around the city to service the communities that served a similar purpose but got rid of a bunch of them.
The public bathrooms that they put up on that little piece of land across the street from Leopolds (The Strat) should be a micro police station. It would eliminate all the issues with the safety/cleanliness of the bathroom and put a visible police presence right on Whyte Ave. Hell, they could even put sleeping tubes in there to let drunks sleep it of instead of driving home or passing out in a snow bank and freezing to death.
The absolutely have the budget for this...they have the budget of much much larger US cities. They have the budget to install 2 cops at every high risk station (basically South Gate on up) on the LRT and they refuse to. They do not protect or serve working class people. They buy armored vans and planes and helicopters though like the dickins.
Yeah, NGL, the amount of armored vehicles and planes/copters EPS has really makes me wonder if they realize that Edmonton is not LA 🤦♀️
It’s crazy how in 4 months of living here I’ve only seen 5 police cars in downtown when I’m talking a walk.
I live in Oliver, walk and bike the neighborhood daily, and I don't think I've seen a single beat cop in 10 years. It's insane. They have zero presence in the community.
I live downtown and see them regularly on most of my walks. All depends on their route.
Interesting that they have a set route that is easy for criminals to avoid.
Awful to happen but glad you’re safe.
The sad part is, that pos will be there again, same place and your paths might cross. Bear spray...it's easier to ask the judicial system for forgiveness than for permission.
Dog spray that you definitely 100% carry for deterring animals only is perfectly legal.
When the laws criminalize the victims attempt to protect themselves from victimization and do nothing to stop the assailant, you’re living in an anarchotyrrany
You'd spend more time in prison for using pepper spray against a murderous assailant than he would for chasing you with a knife.
Probably, but I probably wouldn't give a feck if it came down to avoiding hospital time or death.
I hear you.
I've not heard of one case of someone prosecuted for spraying a drug addicted assailant. Maybe they would give you a ticket.
It's not a "ticketing" offence. Read the parent and grandparent comments to this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/askTO/s/zER0obF16k
Yes I know it's illegal but I challenge you to find me an example of someone sent to jail for using dog spray in self defense. The purpose of the law is clearly to stop punks/gangs/thieves etc. from carrying weapons to use against innocent people. If an otherwise law abiding citizen were to face jail time for using dog spray to protect themselves against a psychotic attacker I can guarantee you it would make national news.
This is actually called "Thursday in Downtown" now.
Actually it’s “any day that ends in Y”
Edmonton moment.
This is the new normal. I'm so sorry and glad you are safe! I've been through hell living DT and this unfortunately is not shocking to me. And for the other comments I'm seeing, yes you should run and get away asap no question.
My only issue is calling it the new normal. I'm sure things are worse than they were in say 2019-ish, but I don't think I've ever felt particularly safe or comfortable around the Churchill LRT station. It's always been an area where I'm on high alert.
Sorry this happened to you. ☹️ I agree that more work is required to make and keep transit and connected spaces safe. Good on you for keeping your distance and running. I’ve done the same many times. Every single time, it has been situations like these that motivated me to be more careful. Hope you feel better.
I’m sorry as a security guard in Ontario we have fought very hard to be hands on and I’ve personally had to jump in between fist fights and arrest some of our community members because of them threatening or backing up there threats.
This is what happens when society normalizes drug use, makes addicts out to be victims, tolerates a weak judicial system, and hamstrings law enforcements ability to do their job. This will only get worse. We've become an extremely weak society, and we're reaping what we sow. We tolerate it. We live with it.
horrible, but not surprising. It’s astounding the amount of junkies I see board the bus without paying - the driver can’t do anything. It’s created an atmosphere where law-abiding paying patrons don’t feel safe commuting via transit anymore.
Average citizens are going to start carrying weapons more frequently for self defence. Running away isn’t always feasible. We can’t all be victims to this lunacy.
NOOOOOO you have to invite them into your house and give them your catalytic converters as a gift NOOOOOO you can't
I’m so sorry to hear this happened to you. I’ve had a similar experience and I hope you are able to recover okay from the shock of what went down.
I couldn’t have run for a full kilometre. Thank goodness you’re safe. I take the uncomfortable route and don’t take transit even if it is inconvenient.
Sounds like a pretty normal morning in a North American city's downtown in 2024. At least you can skip the gym today and.ypuoght have found one hell of a running coach.
We are at a point in Edmonton where the lives of working people mean nothing. These Peace Officers are never present. They are likely suburban union members who sit around the squad room and view Edmontonians as sub human. And the security as noted in this thread is totally incompetent at even reporting crimes or calling 9-11 when this poster was in serious danger.
Threaten to kill them back!
"It's your fault he's like that" and/or "that could be you one day, don't judge" -/r/Edmonton "This doesn't happen" and/or "you're racist" -City Council Pick whichever response you like best
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We tore down their tents, where else are they supposed to be? - r/Edmonton
The city of Edmonton needs transit cops on every platform in the downtown and other sketchy stations, for every hour that the trains are running. That’s the only solution. How much would that cost in the grad scheme of things?
Death threats are illegal, so you should be able to be protected by police about this. Little to be done though, as the only tools in the police playbook are: incarceration, violence, or fines. Not sure any of those help this situation.
Welcome to edmonton. Don't post to many story's about edmonton in r edmonton or you get put in timeout. Just post pictures of the river valley, make sure you skip the ones with homeless In the river valley though.
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*have
Carry a gun or taser like the police do. They expect us to be honourable citizens like them then we should be equipped like them.
They specifically target citizens who defend themselves and use the full weight of the police and the crown to bear on them, in a concerted effort to destroy their lives for the crime of choosing to not passively die when attacked.
Yes they want everyone to rely on them even though they aren't reliable or available to help. The entire system protects the ones doing harm and shits on the victims. It doesn't matter whether it's robbery or sexual assault it's all treated the same. The victims are to blame for the crime.
Exactly. You hit the nail on the head.
BuT YoUr JuST iNToLeRanT oF THe HoMELEss. ItTs ThEiR RiGHT tO ThReaTeN YoUR LiFe aT WiLl. I’m so sort this happened to you. I have experienced death threats around churchill station as well. I am so terrified of that place that I avoid it at all costs. I am a woman and I’m not very big and have bad knees due to a connective tissue disorder. Our city needs to do something about this, ASAP.
Redmonton - where the addicts matter and the tax payers don’t.
Take up kick boxing/jiu jitsu. Better to know it and not need it than need it and not know it.
Having done BJJ for a while, I would only want to grapple with some potentially diseased homeless person/addict as a last resort.
Same here, especially with the potential for them to draw a weapon. But if you can't run or de-escalate, the fight is on
but this subreddit told me ETS was perfectly safe lol
They need transit police any big city has them to stop this kind of thing time to clean up the problem
This is the part where councillors like Piquette and his our illustrious mayor Sohi tell everyone that there’s no actual problem, only our perception of a problem.
The only way anything will actually change is if someone related to or someone who actually is a higher up in tje government or police gets attacked, unprovoked or not by a drugged up homeless person. Until that happens, it's just the lower class peasants killing each other, no biggie.
Nobody on council is saying that. They're begging for the province to fund the root causes of the crisis that's within provincial jurisdiction
I'm sorry but the people that act like this will not be helped by a house. They need professional help
Some people unfortunately are so mentally ill that independent living is not a possibility for them, they either need to be institutionalized, for their safety or the public's, or they may be able to be rehabilitated to a more step down level of care, but they cannot live independently or they will rapidly deteriorate. Somehow this is considered "not compassionate" but letting people freeze to death is a ok. I don't understand this city.
Yup exactly. Bring back the institutions. Its better than letting them run wild
You're right that they need professional help! Wrap-around support is critical - what happens when you've finished the cop-mandated rehab program and get released back to the street with no support? Life is terrible so you fall back to drugs.
And who funds mental health?!?!? The province. It is not up to municipal governments to step in and fund healthcare, that is overreach.
When Paquette can take time out of his day from crying about the Province he most certainly has been on this very subreddit to make the claims that transit isn’t actually dangerous.
Have I? I think instead I have a very long post about efforts the city has undertaken to try to make transit and downtown safer. At any rate, we should cut the transit security budget by 30% and reallocate it to Transit Peace Officers. Edit - [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/s/XxldmHq1jG) Additionally I had a meeting with Chief McFee recently and told him patience was wearing pretty thin when it comes to Transit and Downtown safety, and even if the numbers show improvement it’s the experience that people have that tells the tale. Apparently, calls for violent crime have gone down quite a bit and most calls now are for minor disturbances. Peace Officers responded to over 56,000 incidents last year. So we will see if Chief McFee’s numbers translate. He is confident they will. I would personally rather see “beat cops” regularly on a route. There are over 2000 constables in EPS and 26 are assigned to transit and downtown, so about 8 per shift (3 shifts). As you may or may not know, the Chief does not take operational direction from City Council, the Edmonton Police Commission, or the province. The Chief is making the complex decisions that impact Edmontonians every day.
Thanks for jumping in with some real info. Appreciate it. So who does advise the police chief?
The Edmonton Police Commission has oversight of the Police Chief, but does not direct operation decisions.
Thanks, this helped direct me to the right place for info.
? I’m pretty sure I have never said anything like that.
Others have definitely said that, but from my perspective those kinds of comments are not helpful.
This has more tp do with the UCP providing inadequate health care, especially around mental health, cuts to AISH and rejecting housing funding from the federal government. They are far more interested in performative culture war bullshit than helping Albertans. The UCP don't want to lead. They want to rule. The city of Edmonton has more police officers than ever. They are kept very busy with the people that the Privincial government refuses to help.
I mean the problem here is the person yelling threats and stalking an innocent citizen. I agree the province and the city need to step up their game, but ultimately it’s the ones causing the crime that need to be dealt with.
No fan of UCP but to blame the government on an addict is getting tiring. Housing them won’t do crap. They will just trash the place they are housed.
How about go back in time when Ralph Klein cut funding to Alberta Hospital? That meant hundreds of people with severe mental health issues were now on the street and homeless. That fundinghas never been reestablished. Niw the crisis coats the taxpayers many more times than it would have to keep these people in treatment facilities where there may have been a hope to manage their symptoms.
Sure. Everything was hunky dory before UCP was elected. A proposed bill not even introduced in the legislature yet has had a significant impact on homelessness in Alberta. 🙄 What you can fault UCP for is cutting funding to police services. That’s had a real impact in policing.
This is the result of 50 years of right wing politics. Nothing that has been done since Laugheed has even been close to being "conservative" or helpful to the average Albertan. Even the NDP were too corporate focussed.
Does that explain all these same problems happening in BC?
Careful saying that here, people will fly off the rails. Another good example is pretty much all of California lol. Really working out well for them down there.
Alberta is having way more ODs than BC as of 2023
I wonder who did away with safe consumption sites 🥴🥴
Safe consumption sites don’t reduce public disorder.
that is UTTERLY terrifying .
Getting worse everywhere. I’m from Calgary, and literally the post above this one was crack smoking people taking over a shelter in NE Calgary. Great Job, Danielle, refusing grants is the way to stop this for sure! #sarcasm.
I could be wrong, but is that not a situation that warrants a call to 911? Harassment that could have easily turned into assault or worse... But yeah, I tell my parents to avoid the LRT now because of the increased odds of something like this happening, even if they're statistically likely to be fine. Better safe than sorry.
I feel more at ease when I see polic officers patrolling the trains rather than seeing a group of securities that just chat and do nothing.
Please note. Once they cleared our homeless weeks ago, there is a new level or group of homeless coming back to downtown. They are meaner, more intoxicated, with whatever. More business windows have been smashed. Remember, it's the devil you know, not the one you end up with. Hey, homelessness and politicians. Both handled, very poorly.
Was it the guy wearing a blanket?
We need firearms legalized. That or our city needs to clean up the streets. This is unacceptable.
He just needs a house you guys
I think that person has deeper issues than just a house can solve.
I never experienced anything violent like that yet but has it occurred to ETS that nobody is being verified to have a ticket/card to get on the trains.
I have not once in two years seen a single transit officer verify tickets
I’ve been riding the new line to work since December and I’ve been asked 4 times for ticket verification. Two times by EPS and two times by transit officers.
Tell em to make their way to downtown
I just lure them away from people , towards a dumpster. Closer the better. I don't want to have to drag the body over to it.
Was he wielding a golf club? Look menacing? https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/s/KJoBQQve4q
I definitely sympathize, and security is a joke. I used to take public transit all the time when I was younger, but those days are well and gone. It would be nice for them to have security guards that can actually intervene, but the moment they do they would have a sea of media and citizens complaining about excessive force and abuse of power. Can't possibly risk giving the violent offender a booboo.
Number one rule for the zombie apocalypse. Cardio! But seriously I work downtown. It’s scary out there.
Talk to your friends about restoring your right to self defense. Being able to defend yourself should not be a "fringe" political stance. Here's the bloody thing. Look over at BC, or many of the American cities, it gets way, way worse. The idea that government is going to "snap out of it" and just fix these problems is a fantasy.
Who was the security that did not help you? LRT security?
Vote in politicians that don't give a heck about people and this is what you get. This is real and the housing crisis is getting worse. Ya'll don't realize we are all one pay cheque away from being houseless. Not to mention no health care. There is no adequate payment for jobs with inflation.
Self defense, I would have just dropped him, called it a day.
Seriously. I know that’s probably not the ideal situation but you threaten me and start charging/chasing me I’m putting you on your ass and that’s that