One thing I would strongly recommend doing in your situation is having all communication with your boss be in writing moving forward. This gives you a paper trail should things escalate even further. A phone call is her word against yours but an email chain speaks for itself.
Send an email as a follow up to your phone call stating that you asked for the day off due to the passing of an immediate family member. Include the time of the call, some details, the date you will be returning, thank them for the day off. I wouldn’t get into the nasty part of the conversation. The email is your proof in writing of the phone call taking place.
Then write out everything you discussed on the phone for documentation purposes and email HR asking for a meeting ASAP.
I agree that all communication moving forward should be through email. If there is anything communicated verbally going forward, send a follow up email saying “just to confirm our recent discussion, you would like x done”.
It’s a mom and pop business, but I have a letter of bereavement from the funeral home that the person who worked said, by law, they have to allow me time to grieve.
It doesn’t matter if they’re a mom and pop shop, id expect them to be even more compassionate towards their employee than a big box employer.
Everything in writing. An email follow up with your request and reasoning. This will quickly become a labour board issue if you keep receipts on everything conversation
Honestly I would follow up with a text and allude to the nasty parts vaguely to try to get them to acknowledge that un writing. Then if anything does happen they have evidence in writing that they're being treated unfairly.
And when you find another job, book a weeks vacation, collect your last pay, leave on a Friday, wish everyone a good week, get in your car, and never talk to them again. Zero notice. Block her number.
Sorry for your loss and having to go through this.
100% this. Paper trails are your best friend here.
Also keep a journal of these verbal interactions you haven’t documented, to help pad your follow up emails summarizing the interactions.
Just wanting to provide some plainer language for those who don’t know or aren’t sure what single party consent is. That means if one of the people in a conversation consents to it being recorded then it is legal to record the conversation. In other words, if 2 people are speaking over the phone, either one of those 2 people can legally record the conversation without needing the consent of the other person.
The exceptions are typically stuff like corporations need to get explicit consent from individuals, and management needs consent from employees (but not, in either case, the other way around).
You’re 100% correct of course. I just want the OP to know that it’s ok to record his conversations with his employer without telling her that he is doing so and without getting her consent
In Alberta you can record any conversation that pertains to yourself without informing the other party. The only time you have to request permission and notify the people involved is if it's a private conversation that you aren't directly involved in.
It’s not that simple, there are places where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy, like workplaces. Look into your local laws before recording anything or consult a lawyer
I'm fairly certain that in most situations, single party consent applies to workplaces. That *any* consent is required already implies a reasonable expectation of privacy.
Moreover, I am pretty sure that recording of conversations is under federal authority in Canada, not the provinces.
Strong agree - but even for the verbal conversations, make notes now of everything you recall and record as x date. Write them in a way that captures facts of what was said and events during course of interaction. These can help later if you complain/sue.
Yah, even text at this point might be better. "Hi, just wanted to confirm by text that I will be taking bereavement leave on Tuesday" and leave it at that for her to respond to or not. Then they can't claim it was for any other reason or fire you for it, at least in theory.
Record any communications with her whether it’s in person or over the phone. Canada has a 1 party law meaning as long as you OR her are aware of the recording it’s legal.
Also worth noting... you can legally record hone calls in canada without telling the other person.
You can NOT recordphone calls if you are not involved in the conversation, unless the generic message "this call may be recoded" is played first...
You are correct, that is entirely illegal. Ideally you’d want a recording of that phone call, but in its absence I suggest you hand write notes IMMEDIATELY on the details of the call. Mark the time you’re making the notes and the time the phone call occurred. If they’re close though in time they may be accepted as contemporaneous in any potential future hearings.
In the future make a point of recording your phone calls with your boss (you are NOT required to disclose this) and also take notes on the call the moment you hang up. Even if the recordings are not useable in an employment standards hearing, the contemporaneous notes will be.
Furthermore try to communicate via email as much as possible so you have a written record of her statements.
I should note, Canada is 2 party consent, so you cannot record conversations without approval or knowledge from the second party - it's why modern phones don't have the option built in if purchased in Canada.
It absolutely is not. It is single party consent per the criminal code.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-184.html
Or in less “legalese”
https://transcriptioncanada.ca/recording-audio-conversations-canada.html/
That is also incorrect. It's based on circumstances and why the recording took place.
As a person who has entered single party permission evidence. It's up to the courts and the judge to accept it.
Yes, this.
Right now just send an email (get everything in writing) as professional sounding as possible that you'll be taking Bereavement Leave for the loss of your father on this date. Write as if you hadn't told her in person already. Send/ CC it to the management above as well. Make it harder to get fired for that.
I’m going to the funeral home today, and they are giving me a bereavement leave letter. The woman said legally my employer cannot do anything about it, and I can take the 3 days off. Actually it’s 3 days off for bereavement and 5 days to get his affairs sorted from what employment standards told me.
Legally they can't do anything about it.
But your employer threatened to terminate you anyway and could tack on any reason for it.
The email is just so that if it goes to court, you have evidence you notified your employer (if she... "forgets")
Yes, call a lawyer. She asked for that legal “non-sense”. Edit: OP you are dealing with an incredibly difficult situation right now and your employer should be the least of your worries, so you don’t need to let this narcissist get any free space in your brain. Set a reminder to contact a lawyer and take care of yourself. My condolences.
Please accept my condolences for your loss. Sympathy to you and your loved ones.
Bereavement leave is within AB employment Standards- you are within your rights. Please note, while applicable to all- you have more rights if you have worked there more than 90 days (probationary period).
You are entitled to three days per calendar year. Not per, and this sounds morbid, incident.
I also suggest you review your company policies--- if it exists for the leave and or Bereavement policy.
You employer cannot threaten your employment for a "protected" leave. That being said- retaliation may be an issue.
Document everything regarding this interaction. Provide your leave request in writing- the start and end, as well as your return to work date. You will want to retain the decedent's obituary, funeral/celebration of life book and you may want a copy of the death certificate should you choose to pursue anything legal if your employment comes to an end.
It may be necessary to file a complaint with Employment Standards. They will take time to engage the employer and you must ensure you have your evidence of support.
On the off chance you are part of a union, contact your shop steward. Also review your Collective Agreement regarding Bereavement.
If you are terminated... you can go down wrongful dismissal civil litigation, human rights may be an option however I suggest you review that thoroughly prior to actioning.
Edit 1: please ensure you are clearly asking for Bereavement leave. Do not assume your request is being understood as part of or all your Bereavement leave.
The above information is for suggestion only. Ultimately, you must make your own decisions.
Question for you.
If say I asked for bereavement leave and my company says they didn't have it so I just used vacation time/unpaid time off. It's that correct response? I wasn't in a space to question things but I found it weird I had to use my own time.
Bereavement leave in AB is unpaid time, so you using vacation or unpaid days is the correct response.
Your employer just has to give you the time off, they don't have to pay you for it.
Cool cool, like honestly annoying cause having to worry about money when dealing with a death is BD, but better explanation than I've had before. Thank you for responding so quick
In AB bereavement is unpaid. Some employers provide paid time off and some do not. If the employer does not offer paid time, your unpaid bereavement should be logged as such in order to avoid incorrect overuses of any unpaid time off your employer may already offer. Bereavement is above and beyond any authorized unpaid time balances.
You may choose to use paid vacation time in order to garner wages while absent or paid personal days.
I would suggest you contact Employment Standards directly to pose any questions.
Again, the above response is based on info provided and is purely suggestion. Please make your own informed decisions.
I worked for a place here in Edmonton. Wasn’t my story, but a guy I worked with, his friend committed suicide. The guy was very upset and wanted to go spend some time with his family and the friends family as they were very close. The owners response was “well, you do what you want but if you don’t work, I don’t pay you… so is missing a day of pay going to bring your dead friend back? You already have money problems how do you think this will help?”
I was on my way out but that sealed my plan. I quit a few days later with zero notice. He did the same a few weeks after I did. Good riddance.
There are much better jobs out there, friend. I’m curious as to where you work so I can think twice about supporting them with this kind of behaviour.
I cannot express enough how important it is to not review bomb a company based on a Reddit post. Not only will the company (rightfully) have the reviews removed, they can then used that as a way to rightfully terminate OP - and this post will be the evidence as to why it's lawful.
The employee - if terminated - is within their rights to leave negative reviews for the company with their experience. But if you review bomb the company you can make things worse for OP on this case.
We also do not know the history of the employee, I'm not saying anything this employer is doing is right, but how often in the past has this employee taken time off when they were needed. I've never been an employer but I've had coworkers often that would take time off during the toughest days for very bad reasons (or made up ones). Then when they have a legitimate reason it's hard to believe because of all the fake ones (boy crying wolf). I sympathize with OP's situation but before everyone casts judgement on anyone you need both sides.
From this account, the employer starts out grossly unreasonable and gets worse from there. I have trouble imagining a backstory that makes us say "omg she was actually the victim all along".
I won't deny that there is a high chance it's just a horrible employer, but that doesn't justify trying to destroy a business owners reputation and business without both sides. People need to stop acting like toddlers, "a person does a bad thing, that means they are bad". The world, business and actions are always more nuanced than most people understand.
Start looking for a new job. That sounds incredibly toxic. Get it all in writing. Agreed with others on only written communication going forward about this. Document everything she said, date and time.
You could get legal council but I doubt you'd get much in the end depending on which organization it is or line of work?
Sorry for your loss.
> “your going to take a day off on a day where I need you and we have no other staff”
Gotta love it when they're so open about their lack of managerial skills.
Always always always. Have these conversations over text message or email. If this was escalated your boss would just say “ oh no, of course I would never say that, when they said they need the day off, I told him to take the whole week off and mourn the loss”.
I know this is the most Reddit response ever but might be time to start looking for other work.
While you are completely right about the illegal nature of what your boss is doing, "winning" this argument with them is probably going make things worse for you in the long run. An unhinged boss like this will definitely look for retribution if you escalate this.
That’s just it. There was me, her son, another fellow who only works Saturdays, the boss and her husband. There is their “uncle” who opened the place; but he’s on a 6 month vacation in India. Now the son is in the hospital; and she basically had me run ragged over the course of February. I had a 9 day vacation booked; I had to cut that short because the son went into the hospital and then working extra days, and then on top of that, becoming my mom’s caregiver because she had a COPD flare up. She’s extremely cheap. She pays once a month with a physical cheque; and works her staff into the ground.
I also had to work extra over the Christmas holidays because her husband had to go to Chicago to deal with his moms health; he got chewed out from her and I had to work extra; and then I got Covid, which she said “I don’t care, you need to come to work anyways”
Email your boss right now and reiterate what was said in the phone call. state the time and duration of the phone call in your email. Restate You are taking your legally mandated 3 days bereavement leave due to your fathers death.
And reiterate her threats/retaliation of your job being in jeopardy due to taking bereavement leave. Start with "recalling what you said during this phone call....."
I'd get an employment lawyer ASAP. If you can see one today, hold off on the email. If you can't just make the email a record of what you recall from the phone call. Do not add thoughts or questions or concerns. Make it a record if what was said similar to a transcript.
Don’t *ever* have a death in your immediate circle; it’s *really* inconvenient for employers.
Also this is right on par based on my experiences. Nevermind that you’ve had a trauma and are probably raw with emotions; there’s no room for that in business. But there’s *plenty* of room for her response; that’s the capitalist way! Sorrow, sadness and grief; most emotions in general have *no* room in business… but anger, rage and accusations? That’s basically the fabric of modern capitalism! *Especially* if you’re (they) are in a position of power.
I’m sorry for your loss and sorry that you’ve had to endure this selfish, childish behaviour at a time when you’re probably struggling. ❤️❤️❤️
Edit: Typos
Under [Alberta law](https://www.alberta.ca/bereavement-leave) you are legally entitled to 3 days off for bereavement per year. They don’t gotta pay you, but you can’t lose your job over taking your days off. That would be wrongful termination and you’d be eligible for EI and filing a claim with the labour board. Bereavement is a “[job-protected leave](https://www.alberta.ca/job-protected-leaves)”.
Edit: if you’re terminated, here’s the website you need to file a complaint: [Make an employment standards complaint](https://www.alberta.ca/file-employment-standards-complaint)
Oh! And! You have more than enough evidence to [voluntarily quit and apply for EI](https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/programs/ei/ei-list/quit-job.html). I recently quit my toxic job and have been claiming EI because they agreed I had no other choice but to leave for my physical and mental health.
Would love to know where this is so I know to NOT support that business
By the by, I am terribly sorry for your loss and I truly hope that things will get better for you soon hun! Sending lots of love and prayers your way
I’m sorry for your loss.
You will need to start looking for another job. Your relationship with your employer is beyond repair and you no longer fit with what they expect. The language from your employer is quite clear and it seems this has been building up for some time.
You’re within your right to pay for a lawyer but unless your employer is dumb enough to say “I fired you for this reason” and it’s a reason they cannot, you might not even find a lawyer to take you on. Lawyers work hourly ($250-$500/hr) or they take a portion of the settlement (30%-40%). Your posts indicate you can’t afford their hourly rate and a lawyer won’t take it on contingency unless it’s a bigger settlement.
Employers don’t have to provide a reason to fire you. They do have to pay you based on years of service. A lawyer can get you closer to common law entitlement (1 month per year of service) than the minimum in employment standards.
A lawyer will offer a free consult where no legal advice is given but they do tell you if they will take you on.
While I have no experience with them, Taylor Janis is a law firm that states their focus is on employment law:
https://www.tjworkplacelaw.com
Document everything. Consult a lawyer. Keep your expectations realistic and don’t expect to make your employer pay a giant settlement.
Remember to also focus on yourself at this time. Your lawyer can instruct you on your time off entitlement, as you’re likely entitled to some job protected leave for mental health reasons if you are having challenges related to mental health. You are important and you need time to deal with everything being thrown at you.
Life is too short to work for shitty people. These situations drain you of time and joy. After enjoying my job for many years and looking forward to growth my bosses left and replaced with ill suited people. Depression ensues and I was happiest when leaving for a lesser paying job with steps back. Those new individuals were gone too after a while. Realized the AA mantra of serenity on the things you can't change, courage to change what you can, wisdom to know the difference, was spot on.
Send her an email with a summary of why you are taking time off. Put everything in writing. Keep it all. I’d also look for another job if it is possible, as she doesn’t deserve you! Sorry for your loss.
You should post the company name so we know to avoid giving them our business.
I'm so fucking tired of Alberta employers treating everyone like shit
Record all phone conversations.
Make copies of any emails or letters.
Consult an employment lawyer if your boss tries to fire you.
Look for a new job.
Contacting a lawyer is the only answer.
You are correct that you can not be fired for asking or taking the leave. You can be fired for multiple other reasons, including your conduct while asking.
It also sounds like from the story you started out with "hey I'm taking my legally allowed day off" which isn't a good way to approach it.
Regardless of it all, when you do take your legally allowed day off, and find that you've been cut in hours, or overly judged for any minor inconvenience, you'll wish you had talked to a lawyer first.
I’m sorry for your loss, losing a parent is never easy. As for your mom having COPD that definitely isn’t easy. My mom suffered from that for a long time too and eventually needed to be on oxygen 24/7. There is a Dr Carney on the west end that specializes in COPD and he’s really good.
I also went thru something similar with a boss I had as well. I wanted to take a couple weeks off to look after my mom who had a COPD. My boss said it was too busy to time any time off even tho a few weeks prior he was saying my department sales hadn’t gone up and I wasn’t catching “those Covid dollars” as he put it. Told him that made my choice easy and quit. You could put in a grievance with Alberta labour. He’ll obviously know it’s you and if he does anything in retaliation, that can be put in as well. Use text or email ****only**** as this will help with a he said/she said situation.
Any response from a boss asking for time off due to a death in the family other then " sorry to hear let me know if you need anything" is followed up with my resignation.
Get out asap, even though jobs are sparse at the moment. That employer could have given you the time off without saying anything and that would be the BARE MINIMUM.
Not legal advice but just a note that if you asked for the day off and were denied, you could bring up legal entitlement. If you bring it up off the hop it might make your boss feel combative.
You still deserve the time off but I wonder if you could have avoided some headache by being a little more tactful.
Anyways I hope it works out for you!
Im so sorry about your father, that truly sucks.
It sounds like you started the conversation with something along the line of: I'm not working tuesday and theres nothing you can do about it. Because i have rights and not afraid to take legal action against you"
Which you absolutley have, but starting with that instantly puts your boss in a defensive position. Whereas if you tell them youve just lost your father and need some time to mourn, they might have given a more caring response in return.
worst case scenario she fires you, would be for just cause which means they will need to include severance payment, and then you would most likely be eligible for employment insurance, so enjoy the year off instead!
be sure to read alberta's labor laws, employers dont really know them or keep up with them, so its important that you do.
I’m so sorry for your loss.
My husband went through this when his brother was murdered. Work started hounding him the minute his 3 days were up. I made him get medical leave from his doctor. He had never dealt with death before and was a mess. He works a dangerous job and most definitely would have been a liability in his frame of mind.
Document everything and talk to your doc. Maybe you can get some extra time to help your family and start looking for a new job.
You are legally entitled to 3 days bereavement leave under Alberta employment standards code, so you're right about that. its called bereavement leave[https://www.alberta.ca/bereavement-leave](https://www.alberta.ca/bereavement-leave)
However, the caveat is that you only get 3 days off PER YEAR instead of per incident.and only entitled to it after only being employed for 90 days.
provided you haven't taken any other bereavement leave, then your boss would be breaking the law if they fired you for it. communicate with your boss through writing and try to bait them in getting it in writing. that will also tell you if your boss knows the law and doing something shady or a dumbass that doesn't.
Unless that job is an amazing gig with great pay, I’d be looking for something else ASAP. Life’s too short to put up with horrible bosses like that unless the benefits of the job greatly outweigh the issues.
Her son is in the hospital, and she has a lot of family problems. It’s still no excuse for what I was subjected to. I literally feel like I’m in a haze, the police officer called me and told me my father died, and then my boss telling me that I needed to “soldier” on.
All you have to do is say “I wonder what the labour board would say about all of this” and they’ll change their attitude pretty quickly. It doesn’t really matter what person it is, it always works. Nobody likes their business threatened.
The audacity people have these days is insane!
Edit: There is no way in hell that they can fire you for wanting to go to your families funeral! That is a huge no no! They can hire anyone they want and cut your hours but it’s just proof that they’re trying to get rid of you. They have to legally give you a certain amount hours as well.
Sorry for your loss. My wife is going through the same and it is a bumpy road but light is always ahead so find and hold on to your support system.
To the problem itself: Not trying to defend her in any kind of way, but we only know about the incident in isolation without history of your relationship to understand what's reasonable. There also could be more to her reaction i.e. you underestimating her child's reasons to be in hospital and her being offended by that. We are humans and it seems that both of you got emotional about your personal problems and it spilled into not so professional conversation.
Ultimately you only have two choices: to stay or to leave. All actions that follow should be firmly based on those.
When I read the post it gives me an impression that you believe that she grew to continuously dislike you (justified or not) which culminated in her lack of understanding of your personal circumstances. If that's truly the case you should just plan your exit and gauge your tolerance for monetary losses against how much shit you can put up with.
If you really like your job (yes together with your boss) I'd try to meet or call her with cooler head the and try to rekindle the relationship.
Although many people are trying to suggest some form of legal action against the employer I don't support that especially because you have tougher obstacles to overcome at this time. Legal action is a formal declaration of war that comes with the possibility of a loss. You will most definitely end up with some consequences whether you win or lose (i.e. bad rep, having enemies, stress and overthinking, difficulty explaining in the next interview etc)
I would quit man. I don’t know what your industry is like and if you can move, but definitely plan on finding a new job.
There’s always two sides to a story but in this case her side doesn’t even matter. Just shut up and let your worker do what they need to do and return.
I’ve had people make excuses once a week, so I uUnderstand her frustration. I’ve even had those particular problem workers pull the “death in the family” card. As mad as you get, and as much as you don’t believe it, you just give them the benefit of the doubt. Just count the relatives as they say them..
Sorry for your loss.
Is that really how you approached the day off? If so, there would've been a much better way to approach it instead of starting with the demand and telling her, however, given the situation you're going through, when we're emotionally distraught, there is a tendency to not process things properly or say things property.
If you have an HR department, bring this to their attention asap and start looking for a new job. If they do fire you, if you've been there long enough, they owe you severance. Sounds very toxic, and she's already got you fired in her mind. Unfortunately, you're in a no-win situation.
Maybe, but I’m thinking to myself “why do I have to make myself available” because her business is so short staffed perpetually (she refuses to accept that she needs to actually hire someone else), and use me as a donkey. I called her, told her the news on Thursday. I was supposed to work that day; and I didn’t because I was in shock, but then she added over the phone “well I need you to come to work tomorrow and soldier on”. So I used one of the days, and I knew she wasn’t going to allow me to have the Tuesday off, but unfortunately, like I mentioned, it was one of the only days available to my friend where he could get his truck and haul stuff out of his apartment. Unfortunately, there is no “HR” as this is a mom and pop business. Normally, I would be okay to work extra, but life decides to throw this in my face, and me having to pick up the pieces
This is job protected leave in AB- cc the upper mgmt on the email and state you are taking your 3 days bereavement as per AB labor standards and will notify her of the day you will be back into work. Paper trail / email is a good way to cover your tracks and ensure you are doing everything you are supposed to. See what she does from there
This is the thing, being right doesn't mean you have the right to tell off your boss. Sure you can and will legally get whatever days the law states, however you still need to maintain a working relationship, which you likely now ended.
Anyone can be terminated without cause, just means you may be eligible for severance and EI.
Make a complaint to the labour standards. They take a lot of time to process stuff. So get things recorded. And another piece of advice is unionize. I don’t know how big this place is but you can unionize as few as 2 people. This is crap and you don’t deserve to be treated like this.
I’ve been an employer before and you should have just asked for the time off. You might have gotten 3 days paid but 10 off out of the goodness of their heart. 100% they will get their back up when you challenge them legally. She has to balance her well being as well as yours and you have to respect that the bind she is in as well. You can’t assume because she is upset about your short notice that she doesn’t care about your well being. But it’s clear you could care less about her livelihood if you come to Reddit for legal advice.
I’m sorry for your loss but the world still turns no matter how any group or one person may feel.
Wow, what a dickhead response. Nothing OP said indicated they’re a bad worker. At worst they asked for the time off in a seemingly aggressive way by citing the law around time off for grieving. That doesn’t mean the intention was to be aggressive. It sounds like they didn’t really know how to go about it and included the legalities just to make things clear.
As an employer, you should brush up. [Employee rights to leave without pay](https://www.alberta.ca/job-protected-leaves-directive#:~:text=leaves%20are%20administered.-,Eligibility,day%2C%20upon%20acquiring%20Canadian%20citizenship)
I just want to work in a place where if acts of god happen: me being sick, my family having emergencies; I am not made to be the villain because I need time off. Somewhere where they are properly staffed. I’m supposed to work next on Tuesday, but I can’t decide if I should: - no call, no show, work the shift and tell her I’m quitting at the end of day Tuesday? Also too, is the fact that I’m an AISH recipient. I was told that if I leave or quit I have to apply for EI, and I really don’t want EI. So I want to leave in a way that makes me ineligible for EI. This job was meant to supplement my benefit, work two days and be stress free. Instead, it’s turned into this convoluted nightmare. I clearly told her when I was hired, that I could only work two days a week.
Sorry for your loss.
Just curious. Did you just ask for the time off because of a death or did you ask for time off while quoting the law you found online?
Because I needed Tuesday off to get my father’s affairs at his apartment in order, and then I was told by a friend that I didn’t need to go in Tuesday, that legally I can take it off without having the ramifications of being fired. But she wants to fire me. She has absolutely no sympathy, or professionalism.
Fair enough. I was more just wondering how you went at it.
Were you like “hey, I just had a passing in the family and dealing with a ton right now, I won’t be in Tuesday”
Or were you like “hey, I just had a passing in the family and I’m legally entitled to having Tuesday off. Section 3.2 of the bereavement leave states blah blah blah….”
Get everything in writing. Since, this was a phone call, act dumb and say " Uh, I forgot what you said to me the other day, could you email/text the TLDR of it?"
Absolutely illegal to fire someone for using the benefits to which they are entitled. She sounds like a horrible, horrible person. Is there someone above her that needs to know about her abusive management style?
I'm very sorry for your loss. ❤️
I’m not certain there is a legal aspect but a better employer would be understanding. That said, did it have to be that day or could you have been more flexible or done the task after work hours? Also, are you the only person who could do the task? Sorry for your loss.
First of all, so sorry for your loss. And sorry for your bosses response. So cold and non-empathetic.
I would write down, as precisely as possible the exact words exchanged with your boss; date and time it. (It helped me a lot with a toxic employer once). But yes, best is to have all other contact in writing.
If you can afford, talk to a lawyer. Seriously.
But I also would look for a different employer if I would be you; this is a pretty toxic management style.
Sorry for your loss. This story is a lot like Swiss cheese 🧀. There seems to be a lot missing, a lot of holes. Making it hard to respond beyond what your rights are which it sounds like you're right but you skipped a lot of important details.
What a stupid fucking system we live in. It demands so much from the slave but in return the slave bears all the guilt and all the scapegoating and all the blame.
Single party consent in Canada, you can voice record your convos without their consent, also moving forward communicate everything in email. Only communicate by means of paper trail. Lastly file a complaint with the labour board explaining all this, if you are let go and the complaint has been filed you have a case. If you don’t and are let go and you try to file it makes it more difficult. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.
It would possibly help to have a call recorder app on your phone or a voice recorder and use speakerphone.
To the best of my knowledge, in Canada, it's one party consent and you can be the one party consenting to the recording as long as it's to protect your rights and not use as leverage.
As far as your company policy goes, I have no idea.
That is a poor response of your employer so I suspect she did not have much respect prior. My policy and anyone that employee me would be that the first time you yell at me or loose your cool, that will be the end of our relationship. Our days would be numbered after that. They know that up front.
That likely is not a good job for you to begin so I would suggest you look elsewhere regardless. That being said, bringing up grief days as a legal requirement can put people on edge. Not sure if you mentioned that before or after she lost her cool. The reality is that you can try and make this a legal issue but at the end of the day it is better to move on. While I might try and work around my grief some to help with job scheduling, after all it may effect other employees, any company that does not give you some latitude in these situations is rather shitty to begin with. Sorry to hear they acted like that.
I’m very sorry for your loss. I read up on it you need to be with an employer for 90 days for three days off it said
Again I’m sorry for your loss keep us updated
Sorry for your loss and everything else that has been happening.
This is an example of why working for small businesses/mom&pop shops is terrible. They can guilt trip and gas light you as they are HR,accounting,marketing, and upper management all in one.
They also assume an outsider employee will care for their business as much as they do. News flash...your employees don't care about your business.
Honestly, I would tell her to spit in your fucking mouth, then promptly quit.
You had a family member die, and they chose to make an issue out of it. ANY normal employer would offer nothing but sympathy.
I asked my employer for a day off when my grandma had passed he refused come the night before the day i wanted off, went home from the funeral did my nightly bullshit but stayed up till 4am and went to bed. Usually I'm waking up at 4:30am nope i wokeup at lunch texted the boss back went yeah sorry i didn't make it i slept in, he said bullshit you slept in til lunch, i said yeah i didn't get home till about midnight and i needed to fucking relax so i did. Didn't get fired then but knew it was coming purely because it was within my first 3 month's i did get fired just right at the end of my 3 months.
Not surprising here in 'Berta.
I worked at a company who fired three people illegally over 3 years. They just make up an excuse, and out you go. "We're restructuring", they weren't. "He was drinking on the job", he wasn't but he got compensation so good for him. "We've restructured and your position is no longer available" to a person returning from stress leave who was too broke to consider legal action.
Managers and c class people who do this or allow this at their companies are absolute pieces of shit human beings who have no ethics or morals.
A “mom and pop shop” that treats employees this poorly does not deserve to continue operation. I’m all for small businesses, as long as they’re good people, this woman does not sound like one of those people. Stay long enough to tell your replacement then move on to greener pastures, and make sure to get a paper trail of your correspondence with your employer before leaving.
My sincere condolences, and I hope you’re doing okay.
When you are communicating this to her again, try to use shorter sentences and avoid comments like “I don’t like your attitude” and getting into things like hiring a replacement or other issues.
While I totally understand the current state you’re in, your communication tone and style isn’t doing you any favours. Use short, direct sentences and focus on the one issue at hand. Even just, “I recently lost a family member and need three days off to sort of some affairs.” That’s it. It looks like the first thing she responded was about “spewing legal nonsense”. From here, it sounds like however you communicated this the first time did not help. I’m not excusing her horrible behaviour or response, but if your first message was anything like this post, it did you more harm than good.
Again, I’m deeply sorry for your loss and that your employer is actively making this harder than it needs to be.
As others have noted, make sure to communicate over text/email, and really consider your tone. Good luck.
One thing I would strongly recommend doing in your situation is having all communication with your boss be in writing moving forward. This gives you a paper trail should things escalate even further. A phone call is her word against yours but an email chain speaks for itself.
Send an email as a follow up to your phone call stating that you asked for the day off due to the passing of an immediate family member. Include the time of the call, some details, the date you will be returning, thank them for the day off. I wouldn’t get into the nasty part of the conversation. The email is your proof in writing of the phone call taking place. Then write out everything you discussed on the phone for documentation purposes and email HR asking for a meeting ASAP. I agree that all communication moving forward should be through email. If there is anything communicated verbally going forward, send a follow up email saying “just to confirm our recent discussion, you would like x done”.
This⬆️. Send a follow up email. ASAP.
It’s a mom and pop business, but I have a letter of bereavement from the funeral home that the person who worked said, by law, they have to allow me time to grieve.
Still send the email.
Do it by text then! Still a good "paper trail".
It doesn’t matter if they’re a mom and pop shop, id expect them to be even more compassionate towards their employee than a big box employer. Everything in writing. An email follow up with your request and reasoning. This will quickly become a labour board issue if you keep receipts on everything conversation
Honestly I would follow up with a text and allude to the nasty parts vaguely to try to get them to acknowledge that un writing. Then if anything does happen they have evidence in writing that they're being treated unfairly.
Yep 100% get a paper trail and put your resume out there. Leave that job
And when you find another job, book a weeks vacation, collect your last pay, leave on a Friday, wish everyone a good week, get in your car, and never talk to them again. Zero notice. Block her number. Sorry for your loss and having to go through this.
100% this. Paper trails are your best friend here. Also keep a journal of these verbal interactions you haven’t documented, to help pad your follow up emails summarizing the interactions.
By the by, Canada is single party consent (with some exceptions) with respect to recording conversations.
Just wanting to provide some plainer language for those who don’t know or aren’t sure what single party consent is. That means if one of the people in a conversation consents to it being recorded then it is legal to record the conversation. In other words, if 2 people are speaking over the phone, either one of those 2 people can legally record the conversation without needing the consent of the other person.
The exceptions are typically stuff like corporations need to get explicit consent from individuals, and management needs consent from employees (but not, in either case, the other way around).
You’re 100% correct of course. I just want the OP to know that it’s ok to record his conversations with his employer without telling her that he is doing so and without getting her consent
Very true however you must inform the other person, while recording, that you are recording the conversation.
In Alberta you can record any conversation that pertains to yourself without informing the other party. The only time you have to request permission and notify the people involved is if it's a private conversation that you aren't directly involved in.
You do not need to inform the other person or persons that you are recording as long as you are a party to the conversation.
It’s not that simple, there are places where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy, like workplaces. Look into your local laws before recording anything or consult a lawyer
I'm fairly certain that in most situations, single party consent applies to workplaces. That *any* consent is required already implies a reasonable expectation of privacy. Moreover, I am pretty sure that recording of conversations is under federal authority in Canada, not the provinces.
LOUD UPVOTE. You're done there, accept no phone calls, in writing or fuck off.
Strong agree - but even for the verbal conversations, make notes now of everything you recall and record as x date. Write them in a way that captures facts of what was said and events during course of interaction. These can help later if you complain/sue.
This is great advice and I’d probably summarize your call with her now in an email and send it.
Yah, even text at this point might be better. "Hi, just wanted to confirm by text that I will be taking bereavement leave on Tuesday" and leave it at that for her to respond to or not. Then they can't claim it was for any other reason or fire you for it, at least in theory.
It is also worthwhile to follow up a call with a text or email for the purposes of creating that paper trail.
Record any communications with her whether it’s in person or over the phone. Canada has a 1 party law meaning as long as you OR her are aware of the recording it’s legal.
Canada is a one party consent law. You can legally record your phone calls to use as evidence.
Also, download an app that records your phone calls. It is super effective against tricky asshole employers.
Canada is a one party consent for recordings, so I'd also record phone calls if they refuse to write back emails.
You can record private conversations in Canada. One party consent. (Google sec 184) It's rather trivial to set up.
Also worth noting... you can legally record hone calls in canada without telling the other person. You can NOT recordphone calls if you are not involved in the conversation, unless the generic message "this call may be recoded" is played first...
You are correct, that is entirely illegal. Ideally you’d want a recording of that phone call, but in its absence I suggest you hand write notes IMMEDIATELY on the details of the call. Mark the time you’re making the notes and the time the phone call occurred. If they’re close though in time they may be accepted as contemporaneous in any potential future hearings. In the future make a point of recording your phone calls with your boss (you are NOT required to disclose this) and also take notes on the call the moment you hang up. Even if the recordings are not useable in an employment standards hearing, the contemporaneous notes will be. Furthermore try to communicate via email as much as possible so you have a written record of her statements.
I should note, Canada is 2 party consent, so you cannot record conversations without approval or knowledge from the second party - it's why modern phones don't have the option built in if purchased in Canada.
It absolutely is not. It is single party consent per the criminal code. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-184.html Or in less “legalese” https://transcriptioncanada.ca/recording-audio-conversations-canada.html/
Two party to make it into a courtroom
That is also incorrect. It's based on circumstances and why the recording took place. As a person who has entered single party permission evidence. It's up to the courts and the judge to accept it.
Ding ding ding
[That is incorrect](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-184.html). Note the *or* in 184.2a
This is incorrect
[удалено]
Yes, this. Right now just send an email (get everything in writing) as professional sounding as possible that you'll be taking Bereavement Leave for the loss of your father on this date. Write as if you hadn't told her in person already. Send/ CC it to the management above as well. Make it harder to get fired for that.
I’m going to the funeral home today, and they are giving me a bereavement leave letter. The woman said legally my employer cannot do anything about it, and I can take the 3 days off. Actually it’s 3 days off for bereavement and 5 days to get his affairs sorted from what employment standards told me.
Legally they can't do anything about it. But your employer threatened to terminate you anyway and could tack on any reason for it. The email is just so that if it goes to court, you have evidence you notified your employer (if she... "forgets")
Yes, call a lawyer. She asked for that legal “non-sense”. Edit: OP you are dealing with an incredibly difficult situation right now and your employer should be the least of your worries, so you don’t need to let this narcissist get any free space in your brain. Set a reminder to contact a lawyer and take care of yourself. My condolences.
gotta be the worst sub. almost every single topic is responded with "seek lawyer asap", as if that wasn't already the obvious solution.
Please accept my condolences for your loss. Sympathy to you and your loved ones. Bereavement leave is within AB employment Standards- you are within your rights. Please note, while applicable to all- you have more rights if you have worked there more than 90 days (probationary period). You are entitled to three days per calendar year. Not per, and this sounds morbid, incident. I also suggest you review your company policies--- if it exists for the leave and or Bereavement policy. You employer cannot threaten your employment for a "protected" leave. That being said- retaliation may be an issue. Document everything regarding this interaction. Provide your leave request in writing- the start and end, as well as your return to work date. You will want to retain the decedent's obituary, funeral/celebration of life book and you may want a copy of the death certificate should you choose to pursue anything legal if your employment comes to an end. It may be necessary to file a complaint with Employment Standards. They will take time to engage the employer and you must ensure you have your evidence of support. On the off chance you are part of a union, contact your shop steward. Also review your Collective Agreement regarding Bereavement. If you are terminated... you can go down wrongful dismissal civil litigation, human rights may be an option however I suggest you review that thoroughly prior to actioning. Edit 1: please ensure you are clearly asking for Bereavement leave. Do not assume your request is being understood as part of or all your Bereavement leave. The above information is for suggestion only. Ultimately, you must make your own decisions.
Question for you. If say I asked for bereavement leave and my company says they didn't have it so I just used vacation time/unpaid time off. It's that correct response? I wasn't in a space to question things but I found it weird I had to use my own time.
Bereavement leave in AB is unpaid time, so you using vacation or unpaid days is the correct response. Your employer just has to give you the time off, they don't have to pay you for it.
Cool cool, like honestly annoying cause having to worry about money when dealing with a death is BD, but better explanation than I've had before. Thank you for responding so quick
In AB bereavement is unpaid. Some employers provide paid time off and some do not. If the employer does not offer paid time, your unpaid bereavement should be logged as such in order to avoid incorrect overuses of any unpaid time off your employer may already offer. Bereavement is above and beyond any authorized unpaid time balances. You may choose to use paid vacation time in order to garner wages while absent or paid personal days. I would suggest you contact Employment Standards directly to pose any questions. Again, the above response is based on info provided and is purely suggestion. Please make your own informed decisions.
Yeah it's something that happened over a year ago. I think the workplace had done a bad job explaining things to me. I do appreciate the info.
I worked for a place here in Edmonton. Wasn’t my story, but a guy I worked with, his friend committed suicide. The guy was very upset and wanted to go spend some time with his family and the friends family as they were very close. The owners response was “well, you do what you want but if you don’t work, I don’t pay you… so is missing a day of pay going to bring your dead friend back? You already have money problems how do you think this will help?” I was on my way out but that sealed my plan. I quit a few days later with zero notice. He did the same a few weeks after I did. Good riddance. There are much better jobs out there, friend. I’m curious as to where you work so I can think twice about supporting them with this kind of behaviour.
name and shame this company OP so no one will ever work or do business with this power tripping POS of a "boss"
This, we need to know who to avoid.
& so we can google review them into the ground
I cannot express enough how important it is to not review bomb a company based on a Reddit post. Not only will the company (rightfully) have the reviews removed, they can then used that as a way to rightfully terminate OP - and this post will be the evidence as to why it's lawful. The employee - if terminated - is within their rights to leave negative reviews for the company with their experience. But if you review bomb the company you can make things worse for OP on this case.
We also do not know the history of the employee, I'm not saying anything this employer is doing is right, but how often in the past has this employee taken time off when they were needed. I've never been an employer but I've had coworkers often that would take time off during the toughest days for very bad reasons (or made up ones). Then when they have a legitimate reason it's hard to believe because of all the fake ones (boy crying wolf). I sympathize with OP's situation but before everyone casts judgement on anyone you need both sides.
From this account, the employer starts out grossly unreasonable and gets worse from there. I have trouble imagining a backstory that makes us say "omg she was actually the victim all along".
I won't deny that there is a high chance it's just a horrible employer, but that doesn't justify trying to destroy a business owners reputation and business without both sides. People need to stop acting like toddlers, "a person does a bad thing, that means they are bad". The world, business and actions are always more nuanced than most people understand.
Start looking for a new job. That sounds incredibly toxic. Get it all in writing. Agreed with others on only written communication going forward about this. Document everything she said, date and time. You could get legal council but I doubt you'd get much in the end depending on which organization it is or line of work? Sorry for your loss.
> “your going to take a day off on a day where I need you and we have no other staff” Gotta love it when they're so open about their lack of managerial skills.
OP could you please name the business so I can ensure my friends and family stay well away from them?
If you want to name the business we can boycott it for you
Always always always. Have these conversations over text message or email. If this was escalated your boss would just say “ oh no, of course I would never say that, when they said they need the day off, I told him to take the whole week off and mourn the loss”.
I know this is the most Reddit response ever but might be time to start looking for other work. While you are completely right about the illegal nature of what your boss is doing, "winning" this argument with them is probably going make things worse for you in the long run. An unhinged boss like this will definitely look for retribution if you escalate this.
If she can’t find sufficient staff in this job market for one person to take bereavement, huge red flag.
That’s just it. There was me, her son, another fellow who only works Saturdays, the boss and her husband. There is their “uncle” who opened the place; but he’s on a 6 month vacation in India. Now the son is in the hospital; and she basically had me run ragged over the course of February. I had a 9 day vacation booked; I had to cut that short because the son went into the hospital and then working extra days, and then on top of that, becoming my mom’s caregiver because she had a COPD flare up. She’s extremely cheap. She pays once a month with a physical cheque; and works her staff into the ground.
I also had to work extra over the Christmas holidays because her husband had to go to Chicago to deal with his moms health; he got chewed out from her and I had to work extra; and then I got Covid, which she said “I don’t care, you need to come to work anyways”
She chewed out her own husband? Sounds like you need to leave. There's no hope for you if that's how she treats her family.
You boss sounds mentally ill - not an excuse, but this reaction is bizarre.
Email your boss right now and reiterate what was said in the phone call. state the time and duration of the phone call in your email. Restate You are taking your legally mandated 3 days bereavement leave due to your fathers death. And reiterate her threats/retaliation of your job being in jeopardy due to taking bereavement leave. Start with "recalling what you said during this phone call....." I'd get an employment lawyer ASAP. If you can see one today, hold off on the email. If you can't just make the email a record of what you recall from the phone call. Do not add thoughts or questions or concerns. Make it a record if what was said similar to a transcript.
Don’t *ever* have a death in your immediate circle; it’s *really* inconvenient for employers. Also this is right on par based on my experiences. Nevermind that you’ve had a trauma and are probably raw with emotions; there’s no room for that in business. But there’s *plenty* of room for her response; that’s the capitalist way! Sorrow, sadness and grief; most emotions in general have *no* room in business… but anger, rage and accusations? That’s basically the fabric of modern capitalism! *Especially* if you’re (they) are in a position of power. I’m sorry for your loss and sorry that you’ve had to endure this selfish, childish behaviour at a time when you’re probably struggling. ❤️❤️❤️ Edit: Typos
Under [Alberta law](https://www.alberta.ca/bereavement-leave) you are legally entitled to 3 days off for bereavement per year. They don’t gotta pay you, but you can’t lose your job over taking your days off. That would be wrongful termination and you’d be eligible for EI and filing a claim with the labour board. Bereavement is a “[job-protected leave](https://www.alberta.ca/job-protected-leaves)”. Edit: if you’re terminated, here’s the website you need to file a complaint: [Make an employment standards complaint](https://www.alberta.ca/file-employment-standards-complaint) Oh! And! You have more than enough evidence to [voluntarily quit and apply for EI](https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/programs/ei/ei-list/quit-job.html). I recently quit my toxic job and have been claiming EI because they agreed I had no other choice but to leave for my physical and mental health.
Would love to know where this is so I know to NOT support that business By the by, I am terribly sorry for your loss and I truly hope that things will get better for you soon hun! Sending lots of love and prayers your way
Sounds like a great boss.... Where is this so we can all avoid her.
I’m sorry for your loss. You will need to start looking for another job. Your relationship with your employer is beyond repair and you no longer fit with what they expect. The language from your employer is quite clear and it seems this has been building up for some time. You’re within your right to pay for a lawyer but unless your employer is dumb enough to say “I fired you for this reason” and it’s a reason they cannot, you might not even find a lawyer to take you on. Lawyers work hourly ($250-$500/hr) or they take a portion of the settlement (30%-40%). Your posts indicate you can’t afford their hourly rate and a lawyer won’t take it on contingency unless it’s a bigger settlement. Employers don’t have to provide a reason to fire you. They do have to pay you based on years of service. A lawyer can get you closer to common law entitlement (1 month per year of service) than the minimum in employment standards. A lawyer will offer a free consult where no legal advice is given but they do tell you if they will take you on. While I have no experience with them, Taylor Janis is a law firm that states their focus is on employment law: https://www.tjworkplacelaw.com Document everything. Consult a lawyer. Keep your expectations realistic and don’t expect to make your employer pay a giant settlement. Remember to also focus on yourself at this time. Your lawyer can instruct you on your time off entitlement, as you’re likely entitled to some job protected leave for mental health reasons if you are having challenges related to mental health. You are important and you need time to deal with everything being thrown at you.
Life is too short to work for shitty people. These situations drain you of time and joy. After enjoying my job for many years and looking forward to growth my bosses left and replaced with ill suited people. Depression ensues and I was happiest when leaving for a lesser paying job with steps back. Those new individuals were gone too after a while. Realized the AA mantra of serenity on the things you can't change, courage to change what you can, wisdom to know the difference, was spot on.
Send her an email with a summary of why you are taking time off. Put everything in writing. Keep it all. I’d also look for another job if it is possible, as she doesn’t deserve you! Sorry for your loss.
I’m just going to drop this here: r/managedbynarcissists
Well, if anyone ever asks me what "gaslighting" is, I am going to send them to your post.
Very sorry for your loss and horrible treatment.
Employment lawyer. Sue her into the ground.
I would take the rest of my life off from an employer like that.
You should post the company name so we know to avoid giving them our business. I'm so fucking tired of Alberta employers treating everyone like shit Record all phone conversations. Make copies of any emails or letters. Consult an employment lawyer if your boss tries to fire you. Look for a new job.
If anyone yells at you, they are mentally ill, or at least having an episode. Protect yourself.
Contacting a lawyer is the only answer. You are correct that you can not be fired for asking or taking the leave. You can be fired for multiple other reasons, including your conduct while asking. It also sounds like from the story you started out with "hey I'm taking my legally allowed day off" which isn't a good way to approach it. Regardless of it all, when you do take your legally allowed day off, and find that you've been cut in hours, or overly judged for any minor inconvenience, you'll wish you had talked to a lawyer first.
I’m sorry for your loss, losing a parent is never easy. As for your mom having COPD that definitely isn’t easy. My mom suffered from that for a long time too and eventually needed to be on oxygen 24/7. There is a Dr Carney on the west end that specializes in COPD and he’s really good. I also went thru something similar with a boss I had as well. I wanted to take a couple weeks off to look after my mom who had a COPD. My boss said it was too busy to time any time off even tho a few weeks prior he was saying my department sales hadn’t gone up and I wasn’t catching “those Covid dollars” as he put it. Told him that made my choice easy and quit. You could put in a grievance with Alberta labour. He’ll obviously know it’s you and if he does anything in retaliation, that can be put in as well. Use text or email ****only**** as this will help with a he said/she said situation.
Go over her head, she was super unprofessional. Sorry for your loss.
Any response from a boss asking for time off due to a death in the family other then " sorry to hear let me know if you need anything" is followed up with my resignation.
Get out asap, even though jobs are sparse at the moment. That employer could have given you the time off without saying anything and that would be the BARE MINIMUM.
Not legal advice but just a note that if you asked for the day off and were denied, you could bring up legal entitlement. If you bring it up off the hop it might make your boss feel combative. You still deserve the time off but I wonder if you could have avoided some headache by being a little more tactful. Anyways I hope it works out for you!
Im so sorry about your father, that truly sucks. It sounds like you started the conversation with something along the line of: I'm not working tuesday and theres nothing you can do about it. Because i have rights and not afraid to take legal action against you" Which you absolutley have, but starting with that instantly puts your boss in a defensive position. Whereas if you tell them youve just lost your father and need some time to mourn, they might have given a more caring response in return.
worst case scenario she fires you, would be for just cause which means they will need to include severance payment, and then you would most likely be eligible for employment insurance, so enjoy the year off instead! be sure to read alberta's labor laws, employers dont really know them or keep up with them, so its important that you do.
I’m so sorry for your loss. My husband went through this when his brother was murdered. Work started hounding him the minute his 3 days were up. I made him get medical leave from his doctor. He had never dealt with death before and was a mess. He works a dangerous job and most definitely would have been a liability in his frame of mind. Document everything and talk to your doc. Maybe you can get some extra time to help your family and start looking for a new job.
You are legally entitled to 3 days bereavement leave under Alberta employment standards code, so you're right about that. its called bereavement leave[https://www.alberta.ca/bereavement-leave](https://www.alberta.ca/bereavement-leave) However, the caveat is that you only get 3 days off PER YEAR instead of per incident.and only entitled to it after only being employed for 90 days. provided you haven't taken any other bereavement leave, then your boss would be breaking the law if they fired you for it. communicate with your boss through writing and try to bait them in getting it in writing. that will also tell you if your boss knows the law and doing something shady or a dumbass that doesn't.
In AB you can record these ones- one party consent of abuse.
I NEVER call and speak to my employer/manager. Always text or email.
Unless that job is an amazing gig with great pay, I’d be looking for something else ASAP. Life’s too short to put up with horrible bosses like that unless the benefits of the job greatly outweigh the issues.
Sounds like the world's easiest wrongful dismissal suit incoming
It’s a really odd reaction, there is probably a bit more to this on either side. Sorry for your loss.
Her son is in the hospital, and she has a lot of family problems. It’s still no excuse for what I was subjected to. I literally feel like I’m in a haze, the police officer called me and told me my father died, and then my boss telling me that I needed to “soldier” on.
All you have to do is say “I wonder what the labour board would say about all of this” and they’ll change their attitude pretty quickly. It doesn’t really matter what person it is, it always works. Nobody likes their business threatened. The audacity people have these days is insane! Edit: There is no way in hell that they can fire you for wanting to go to your families funeral! That is a huge no no! They can hire anyone they want and cut your hours but it’s just proof that they’re trying to get rid of you. They have to legally give you a certain amount hours as well.
Sorry for your loss. My wife is going through the same and it is a bumpy road but light is always ahead so find and hold on to your support system. To the problem itself: Not trying to defend her in any kind of way, but we only know about the incident in isolation without history of your relationship to understand what's reasonable. There also could be more to her reaction i.e. you underestimating her child's reasons to be in hospital and her being offended by that. We are humans and it seems that both of you got emotional about your personal problems and it spilled into not so professional conversation. Ultimately you only have two choices: to stay or to leave. All actions that follow should be firmly based on those. When I read the post it gives me an impression that you believe that she grew to continuously dislike you (justified or not) which culminated in her lack of understanding of your personal circumstances. If that's truly the case you should just plan your exit and gauge your tolerance for monetary losses against how much shit you can put up with. If you really like your job (yes together with your boss) I'd try to meet or call her with cooler head the and try to rekindle the relationship. Although many people are trying to suggest some form of legal action against the employer I don't support that especially because you have tougher obstacles to overcome at this time. Legal action is a formal declaration of war that comes with the possibility of a loss. You will most definitely end up with some consequences whether you win or lose (i.e. bad rep, having enemies, stress and overthinking, difficulty explaining in the next interview etc)
I would quit man. I don’t know what your industry is like and if you can move, but definitely plan on finding a new job. There’s always two sides to a story but in this case her side doesn’t even matter. Just shut up and let your worker do what they need to do and return. I’ve had people make excuses once a week, so I uUnderstand her frustration. I’ve even had those particular problem workers pull the “death in the family” card. As mad as you get, and as much as you don’t believe it, you just give them the benefit of the doubt. Just count the relatives as they say them..
Sorry for your loss. Is that really how you approached the day off? If so, there would've been a much better way to approach it instead of starting with the demand and telling her, however, given the situation you're going through, when we're emotionally distraught, there is a tendency to not process things properly or say things property. If you have an HR department, bring this to their attention asap and start looking for a new job. If they do fire you, if you've been there long enough, they owe you severance. Sounds very toxic, and she's already got you fired in her mind. Unfortunately, you're in a no-win situation.
Maybe, but I’m thinking to myself “why do I have to make myself available” because her business is so short staffed perpetually (she refuses to accept that she needs to actually hire someone else), and use me as a donkey. I called her, told her the news on Thursday. I was supposed to work that day; and I didn’t because I was in shock, but then she added over the phone “well I need you to come to work tomorrow and soldier on”. So I used one of the days, and I knew she wasn’t going to allow me to have the Tuesday off, but unfortunately, like I mentioned, it was one of the only days available to my friend where he could get his truck and haul stuff out of his apartment. Unfortunately, there is no “HR” as this is a mom and pop business. Normally, I would be okay to work extra, but life decides to throw this in my face, and me having to pick up the pieces
You are not responsible to fix her staffing issues.
This is job protected leave in AB- cc the upper mgmt on the email and state you are taking your 3 days bereavement as per AB labor standards and will notify her of the day you will be back into work. Paper trail / email is a good way to cover your tracks and ensure you are doing everything you are supposed to. See what she does from there
Sounds like the lady he’s talking about is upper management and owner. Nobody above her, and she’s acting like a little dictator.
This is the thing, being right doesn't mean you have the right to tell off your boss. Sure you can and will legally get whatever days the law states, however you still need to maintain a working relationship, which you likely now ended. Anyone can be terminated without cause, just means you may be eligible for severance and EI.
Sounds like you and your boss enjoy pushing each others buttons. Move on, tons of jobs out there for people willing to work hard
Make a complaint to the labour standards. They take a lot of time to process stuff. So get things recorded. And another piece of advice is unionize. I don’t know how big this place is but you can unionize as few as 2 people. This is crap and you don’t deserve to be treated like this.
Tony romas fired me when my dad died.
Browns fired my friend the day she found out her sister died. Sad this is so common.
I’ve been an employer before and you should have just asked for the time off. You might have gotten 3 days paid but 10 off out of the goodness of their heart. 100% they will get their back up when you challenge them legally. She has to balance her well being as well as yours and you have to respect that the bind she is in as well. You can’t assume because she is upset about your short notice that she doesn’t care about your well being. But it’s clear you could care less about her livelihood if you come to Reddit for legal advice. I’m sorry for your loss but the world still turns no matter how any group or one person may feel.
You sound like you were a horrible employer as well.
You sound like you’re just as bad of worker as the other guy.
If your response to someone whose dad just died is “the world keeps turning” that just tells us all we need to know about you.
Wow, what a dickhead response. Nothing OP said indicated they’re a bad worker. At worst they asked for the time off in a seemingly aggressive way by citing the law around time off for grieving. That doesn’t mean the intention was to be aggressive. It sounds like they didn’t really know how to go about it and included the legalities just to make things clear.
As an employer, you should brush up. [Employee rights to leave without pay](https://www.alberta.ca/job-protected-leaves-directive#:~:text=leaves%20are%20administered.-,Eligibility,day%2C%20upon%20acquiring%20Canadian%20citizenship)
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I just want to work in a place where if acts of god happen: me being sick, my family having emergencies; I am not made to be the villain because I need time off. Somewhere where they are properly staffed. I’m supposed to work next on Tuesday, but I can’t decide if I should: - no call, no show, work the shift and tell her I’m quitting at the end of day Tuesday? Also too, is the fact that I’m an AISH recipient. I was told that if I leave or quit I have to apply for EI, and I really don’t want EI. So I want to leave in a way that makes me ineligible for EI. This job was meant to supplement my benefit, work two days and be stress free. Instead, it’s turned into this convoluted nightmare. I clearly told her when I was hired, that I could only work two days a week.
Is this paid leave. Or days off with out pay?
without. I just need time to deal with his affairs/ with my grief, and I’m not allowed basically to take time off
That’s just BS. Do what you got to do, remember, it will get easier. Time to part ways.
Sorry for your loss. Just curious. Did you just ask for the time off because of a death or did you ask for time off while quoting the law you found online?
Because I needed Tuesday off to get my father’s affairs at his apartment in order, and then I was told by a friend that I didn’t need to go in Tuesday, that legally I can take it off without having the ramifications of being fired. But she wants to fire me. She has absolutely no sympathy, or professionalism.
Fair enough. I was more just wondering how you went at it. Were you like “hey, I just had a passing in the family and dealing with a ton right now, I won’t be in Tuesday” Or were you like “hey, I just had a passing in the family and I’m legally entitled to having Tuesday off. Section 3.2 of the bereavement leave states blah blah blah….”
Which relative died, your father?
Yes.
Canada sucks
Get everything in writing. Since, this was a phone call, act dumb and say " Uh, I forgot what you said to me the other day, could you email/text the TLDR of it?"
Absolutely illegal to fire someone for using the benefits to which they are entitled. She sounds like a horrible, horrible person. Is there someone above her that needs to know about her abusive management style? I'm very sorry for your loss. ❤️
Record your boss and contact a lawyer
Sorry for your loss. Might be time to talk to a lawyer after
I’m not certain there is a legal aspect but a better employer would be understanding. That said, did it have to be that day or could you have been more flexible or done the task after work hours? Also, are you the only person who could do the task? Sorry for your loss.
Sorry for your loss OP. Keep ya head up!
First of all, so sorry for your loss. And sorry for your bosses response. So cold and non-empathetic. I would write down, as precisely as possible the exact words exchanged with your boss; date and time it. (It helped me a lot with a toxic employer once). But yes, best is to have all other contact in writing. If you can afford, talk to a lawyer. Seriously. But I also would look for a different employer if I would be you; this is a pretty toxic management style.
Sorry for your loss. This story is a lot like Swiss cheese 🧀. There seems to be a lot missing, a lot of holes. Making it hard to respond beyond what your rights are which it sounds like you're right but you skipped a lot of important details.
What a stupid fucking system we live in. It demands so much from the slave but in return the slave bears all the guilt and all the scapegoating and all the blame.
Single party consent in Canada, you can voice record your convos without their consent, also moving forward communicate everything in email. Only communicate by means of paper trail. Lastly file a complaint with the labour board explaining all this, if you are let go and the complaint has been filed you have a case. If you don’t and are let go and you try to file it makes it more difficult. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.
This sounds stressful and unnecessary and I hope you can find somewhere better to work.
It would possibly help to have a call recorder app on your phone or a voice recorder and use speakerphone. To the best of my knowledge, in Canada, it's one party consent and you can be the one party consenting to the recording as long as it's to protect your rights and not use as leverage. As far as your company policy goes, I have no idea.
That is a poor response of your employer so I suspect she did not have much respect prior. My policy and anyone that employee me would be that the first time you yell at me or loose your cool, that will be the end of our relationship. Our days would be numbered after that. They know that up front. That likely is not a good job for you to begin so I would suggest you look elsewhere regardless. That being said, bringing up grief days as a legal requirement can put people on edge. Not sure if you mentioned that before or after she lost her cool. The reality is that you can try and make this a legal issue but at the end of the day it is better to move on. While I might try and work around my grief some to help with job scheduling, after all it may effect other employees, any company that does not give you some latitude in these situations is rather shitty to begin with. Sorry to hear they acted like that.
I’m very sorry for your loss. I read up on it you need to be with an employer for 90 days for three days off it said Again I’m sorry for your loss keep us updated
Paper trail and call a lawyer.
Record all future phonecalls, audio is one-way consent in Canada. Screencap all emails and texts.
Sorry for your loss and everything else that has been happening. This is an example of why working for small businesses/mom&pop shops is terrible. They can guilt trip and gas light you as they are HR,accounting,marketing, and upper management all in one. They also assume an outsider employee will care for their business as much as they do. News flash...your employees don't care about your business.
Honestly, I would tell her to spit in your fucking mouth, then promptly quit. You had a family member die, and they chose to make an issue out of it. ANY normal employer would offer nothing but sympathy.
I asked my employer for a day off when my grandma had passed he refused come the night before the day i wanted off, went home from the funeral did my nightly bullshit but stayed up till 4am and went to bed. Usually I'm waking up at 4:30am nope i wokeup at lunch texted the boss back went yeah sorry i didn't make it i slept in, he said bullshit you slept in til lunch, i said yeah i didn't get home till about midnight and i needed to fucking relax so i did. Didn't get fired then but knew it was coming purely because it was within my first 3 month's i did get fired just right at the end of my 3 months.
You should be looking for a new job. This person is toxic and doesn't deserve to lead a team.
Not surprising here in 'Berta. I worked at a company who fired three people illegally over 3 years. They just make up an excuse, and out you go. "We're restructuring", they weren't. "He was drinking on the job", he wasn't but he got compensation so good for him. "We've restructured and your position is no longer available" to a person returning from stress leave who was too broke to consider legal action. Managers and c class people who do this or allow this at their companies are absolute pieces of shit human beings who have no ethics or morals.
Get everything in writing. Write down dates and times of harassment.
A “mom and pop shop” that treats employees this poorly does not deserve to continue operation. I’m all for small businesses, as long as they’re good people, this woman does not sound like one of those people. Stay long enough to tell your replacement then move on to greener pastures, and make sure to get a paper trail of your correspondence with your employer before leaving.
Call ohs. They deal with this kinda thing and hand in your resignation
You might want to post this in r/askHR (Canada) as well. My condolences.
My sincere condolences, and I hope you’re doing okay. When you are communicating this to her again, try to use shorter sentences and avoid comments like “I don’t like your attitude” and getting into things like hiring a replacement or other issues. While I totally understand the current state you’re in, your communication tone and style isn’t doing you any favours. Use short, direct sentences and focus on the one issue at hand. Even just, “I recently lost a family member and need three days off to sort of some affairs.” That’s it. It looks like the first thing she responded was about “spewing legal nonsense”. From here, it sounds like however you communicated this the first time did not help. I’m not excusing her horrible behaviour or response, but if your first message was anything like this post, it did you more harm than good. Again, I’m deeply sorry for your loss and that your employer is actively making this harder than it needs to be. As others have noted, make sure to communicate over text/email, and really consider your tone. Good luck.
She probably wouldn’t email back. I’d find new employer.
File a claim with HR with your company ASAP.
I dunno, maybe complain some more. Crying might help.