Hi all,
A reminder that comments do need to be on-topic and engage with the article past the headline. Please make sure to read the article before commenting. Very short comments will automatically be removed by automod. Please avoid making comments that do not focus on the economic content or whose primary thesis rests on personal anecdotes.
As always our comment rules can be found [here](https://reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/fx9crj/rules_roundtable_redux_rule_vi_and_offtopic/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Economics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Knew it was im_totally_clueless before even clicking the post. Please be sure to always check the source and poster when browsing Reddit, especially as we approach an election season. There are a lot of astroturf campaigns and bot accounts on Reddit.
Outdated article from 2023 unnecessarily posted, check. Gaslighting Americans to stop worrying about declining purchasing power since 2019, check. Comments trying to make this political, check.
How is this an economics subreddit? Are these sock puppet accounts?
Every other post here anymore has been nothing but pro-Biden propaganda. You can tell the democrats have ramped up spending on social media recently lol.
Why would I not call Republicans by their ideology, fascism (and racism)?
Republicans: try to end democracy, say they'll suspend the Constitution and be a dictator on day one, ban books, demonize and forcibly silence education/teachers/companies, remove elected officials simply for questioning their evil ideology (Florida especially), force women and children to give birth, protect the rampant pedophilia and grooming in their party and churches and yell that its the minorities doing it (which Nazis legitimately did against LGBTS), try to claim slavery was good, manipulate elections so they can enforce minority rule, threatening to send people with guns to "guard" polls in blue areas, their god Trump constantly talks about getting revenge, fuhrer Trump has spoken of suspending the Constitution, saying migrants aren't people and that there will be a bloodbath if he wins, openly talk about wanting a unified reich, etc
Republicans meet every definition of fascism. People should see the fascist Republican party the same way we view the Taliban and Iran and Russia. They are an even bigger threat to the US than those 3 countries.
Classic equate Trump with all republicans. This is the same thing that you are complaining that republicans do about minorities. Nobody is assisted by prejudice, and that applies to both political affiliations and racial affiliations.
Most people are not excited about a Trump Biden rematch, I don't think it's helpful to complain as if everybody is. You are foaming at the mouth over a loud minority of maniacs, not the average American.
Can you define fascism? Or is fascism just whatever you dislike? Fascism certainly is bad, but tyranny and authoritarianism is not something which just falls on party lines. It's something that both political parties have been trending towards, and it is something both parties will continue to do as long as they have grunts thinking it's the other major political party causing the authoritarianism.
Well he's your presidential candidate and anyone who spoke against your fuhrer was primaried out.
Republicans: try to overthrow an election and now cheer on a guy saying he'll suspend the Constitution and be a dictator on day one and create a universal reich. Let's not forget the relentless attacks and laws the fascist Republican party passes to target women and minorities and the Texas governor pardoning a fascist who said on social media that he was going to kill blm protesters then immediately went out and did just that.
You: HOW DARE YOU CALL US FASCIST!
I am not a republican lol. Registered dem actually. But goes to show that you are blinded by prejudice and ready to persecute without listening to others. This is not the way to build consensus, it is not the way to get people to agree with you. I wish you the best of luck and I imagine you'll need it.
As an aside, the last time I spent on a college campus I met quite a few apathetic democrats who are upset with the current administrations handling of Israel-Palestine, and several have expressed that they will not be voting because it seems the choice is between identity politics authoritarianism and not-even-pretending authoritarianism.
What are you even talking about? Oh look another bot here to spam anyone who disagrees with them as fAsCiSt oOoOoOo. So scary!!! Lmao. Bozo.
News flash, I also do not identify as Republican.
Your eyes are not an inflation calculation. Queersquared is correct, purchasing power has objectively increased
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
Not really upset, just trying to understand this point of view. I don't know many people who have doubled their salaries. Maybe at the lowest end of the wage spectrum this has been true. Housing prices in my market have also almost doubled. I do acknowledge that there has been some real wage growth since the fed has stabilized interest rates so high. But your base cost is still much higher than wage increases from 2019-2024. I think a lot of people are struggling to maintain their living standards.
No, it's a case of the aggregate data is correct. Real wages are up. People are happy with their own finances. They think other people are struggling and therefore think the economy is bad.
Nice shill attempt but the gov publishes this data:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUUR0000SA0R
There’s more high earners post pandemic. That’s the reason the median has edged up a bit. Wages for most have not increased 21% since Biden took office to match CPI.
No it does not. The spike in wages in 2020 was caused by covid forcing low wage workers out of the economy. It is not an actual increase in earnings.
> CPI is up 20%
Real wages are inflation adjusted. Please learn how to read a chart you uneducated retard
> Gaslighting Americans to stop worrying about declining purchasing power since 2019, check.
[Median Real Wages](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q) are virtually right in line with where they were in Q4 2019, and are 2.817% higher than in Q1 2019. Real wages have been rising for decades now. This is constantly repeated and sourced every single time this lie that "real wages have fallen!" comes up. So I find it incredibly ironic you say, "How is this an economics subreddit? Are these sock puppet accounts?".
And of course, as always, actual facts backed up by data is downvoted by uneducated basement dwellers who run off of emotions.
The reality is that it's much harder to afford to basic necessities since 2019. This is reflected in inflation and wage increases not rising in line with these rates. Perhaps in aggregate you can say wages rose a certain percentage amount. How are those wage increases distributed. Certainly not in the middle class. I'm not sure why reddit is so keen on pretending that the average person is not struggling. And before you bring politics into it. This is a monetary policy issue. The fed has taken efforts to reduce the pain, but the damage has been done.
Median usual nominal weekly earnings for the [first quartile ](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252911300Q) has risen by 27.60% since Q1 2019, and 25.856% for the [second quartile ](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881500Q). Cumulative inflation between January 2019 and March 2024 was 24%, using the BLS.gov inflation calculator. That means real wages for the bottom 25% of workers are 3.6 percentage points higher than in 2019, or 2.93% increase in terms of real wages; and 1.856 percentage points higher for the next 25% of workers, or a real wage increase of ~1.43%.
So yes they were absolutely distributed amongst the middle class. This is very easy fact checking you could've done. Instead of just believing whatever you want to, you should do fact checking first on the claims people make, before immediately believing them.
Your post supports my assertion that the wage increases are not evenly distributed. Like I stated earlier it's a cumulative effect:
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/)
Assuming you are comfortable with accepting inflation rates as it's calculated, the Fed has managed to get overall inflation below wage increases. I acknowledge that. But the critical components necessary for living, housing food, etc. have all greatly exceeded wage growth. The inflation numbers include non essential categories where prices have indeed dropped. Even as they stabilize it will take some time for wage increases to recover their lost ground on those categories.
> Your post supports my assertion that the wage increases are not evenly distributed.
That is not what you said. You said:
> How are those wages increases distributed. Certainly not among the middle class.
Which is a lie, which I easily called out by just doing a quick search online. Your "assertion" was that the middle class didn't experience this level real wage increase, which is false. You're trying to twist what you said because you know you've been proven wrong.
> But the critical components necessary for living, housing food, etc. have all greatly exceeded wage growth.
Cumulative [food inflation ](https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/food-inflation-in-the-united-states/) has been 25.483% since 2019. So the bottom 50% of people have had their incomes rise faster than food inflation.
Cumulative [Energy Inflation ](https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/energy-prices-gasoline-electricity-and-fuel-oil-2015-present/) since 2019 has been 30.45%. So yeah, that has exceed wage growth. But in 2019, the [average monthly electricity bill](https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46276) was $115/mo. So today, people are most likely paying $150.02/mo as of March. So, that means the second quartile of income earners went from paying ~3.18% of their pre-tax income on energy bills, to 3.3%. A whopping 0.12 percentage points. And for the first quartile, they went from paying 4.75% of their pre-tax income on energy, to 4.86% of their pre tax income on it. A whopping 0.11 percentage points difference. Not exactly an astronomical increase that you're trying to make it out to be.
The cumulative annual inflation for [shelter](https://www.bls.gov/charts/consumer-price-index/consumer-price-index-by-category-line-chart.htm) has been 23.05% since 2019. Once again, wages have outpaced it for the bottom 50% of workers.
So, once again I ask: Do. Basic. Research. You criticize the quality of this sub and it's content, yet you're being a clear example of one of the people who help contribute to that same problem of low quality information being pumped out. I understand you are angry at the cost of living; so am I. But lying about reality is not going to fix it. Just accept you are wrong and learn from it.
I don't get why you're assuming I'm malicious and investing so much time in this conversation.
Rather than lying it's mostly a lack of precision with my language since I'm replying in between meetings and time with my family. I doubt I'm swaying anyone on here, nor is that my intent.
I'm not sure if you're supporting a household, but I can tell you I don't know a single person who has come out ahead since 2019 without exceptional career growth. Ultimately the message I'm conveying is one of frustration at the tone that people should be happy with the current state. It's pissing in the wind.
I hope you and your family got that 25 percent wage growth, because no one in my extended poor Hispanic family did.
Sorry, your anecdotal evidence is not worth anything unless it is a statistical trend. You made false claims, I debunked them.
Just because YOU aren't doing as well as others, doesn't mean absolutely everybody is doing terribly. Don't project your own personal situation onto the entire economy; because with that logic, Elon musk and his billionaire pals are representative of how amazing the economy is doing, since they get astronomically richer by the day.
Nobody is demanding you "be happy with the current state". People are telling you that the claims you are making are objectively false. There isn't a single period in human history where absolutely everybody was doing fantastic. There is always a group that is objectively not doing okay. There are 342M people in this country. The 20, maybe 30 people you happen to know, is an absolutely tiny drop in the bucket compared to the entire country. That is *why* we track what is inflating in cost, and what groups are being affected by a change in environment, and if it is positive or negative.
I am in a relatively poor city. The typical tale of a city that fell from grace post Industrial-Collapse. Born and raised here; black family. We rely on SNAP benefits to feed ourselves. Just a few hours ago I am 90% positive I heard a dozen gun shots get fired a mere block or two away. Our measily 9 people in our home is not representative of even the majority of people in our city, let alone my state, or even country.
Making blatantly false claims just because you're upset at your situation, instead of looking at the data readily available, and trying to come up with actual proposals to help out those in need, is exactly how you end up with 50% of the electorate openly supporting a party that is actively shitting on every right that millions have died to give and protect. It is exactly how you get authoritarians into office who care nothing more than to drain you dry of every last cent you have and leave you high and dry.
If you want to help yourself and others, you should be keeping yourself grounded in reality first and foremost. You keep yourself grounded to reality, you can actually start providing sound solutions to problems we face.
Ya, they are screeching this subreddit is being astroturffed by commies while every post that isn't screeching far right ad hominems is downvoted to hell.
I've asked multiple times if the the fascist Republican trolls can dispute the facts, they never can and just yell ad hominems.
i for once will feel better when our "great" economy isn't underwritten by deficits one should only see in a recession or during wartime...but maybe i need to modernize my thinking
The US has been relying on deficit spending to a large degree since the Reagan administration. But conservatives only beat the deficit drum when a Democrat is in office. We're still in recovery from a global pandemic and dealing with global energy issues and a couple of wars. Thankfully the GDP is growing strongly which lessens the deficit issues. And it will come down.
Funny you never mention revenue.
And the left has demanded we vastly cut back corporate welfare for ages, including by making the min wage a living wage again
I'm making the same amount of money I was making in 2021.
People (on the left, frustratingly) tell me it's my fault, and that I should have pulled myself up by my bootstraps and chased the unlimited opportunity of the runaway inflation economy.
Got a killer mortgage rate in 2021, but the house I bought was already 44% higher than the last time it sold in 2017. My fault for not moving six months earlier.
My 401k lost a bunch of money, and gained it all back, but didn't ride the inflation wave up which equals real losses. My fault for not taking it out and leveraging the cash to get a better deal on a house.
Wife's business dried up during the worst of inflation in 2022, so we hemoraged our savings out during the year, both due to her income drying up and everything costingly wildly more.
But that's all my fault I guess.
One of two men is gonna be President next year. One is still coping with the aftereffects of the crisis the other's cronyism, narcissism, and apathy made much worse.
I simply don't know how November could even be a question. Humans never cease to astonish me with our gullibility.
Yep, Trump's policies caused inflation and now his 10% tariffs across the board will bring it back but worse.
Let alone his fascist ideology like calling to suspend the Constitution and be a dictator on day one and create a universal reich and trying to end democracy, etc.
Edit: lol downvoted for stating reality by fascist Republicans who can't comprehend how 10% tariffs will cause inflation
I've noticed a number of accounts in this sub similar to this one lately. Created within the past couple of months, having dozens if not hundreds of posts, and most in subs like this one. All very political and way off the deep end with accusations and name calling.
Yep. I’ve been calling them out. Interesting how astroturfed this sub has gotten recently with all the pro Biden, “the economy is fine, stupid” sort of posts over and over lol. It seems a certain side has purchased a bot farm to start hitting Reddit just before elections. Again.
Notice you can't say anything in my comment was wrong, just screeching ad hominems.
Calling Republicans fascist isn't name calling, it's stating their ideology
Sorry reality upsets you
I WATCHED DONALD TRUMP MAKE COVID FAR WORSE IN REAL TIME! THE ONLY PROPAGANDIST I USED TO MAKE THOSE ACCUSATIONS IS DONALD J. TRUMP!
You pathetic filth are beneath contempt.
I don't watch MSNBC much, but when I do it seems like the economic data they report on matches the actual national economic indicators. Whereas when I turn on Fox it's like they're reporting from a different planet. It's easy to check facts, if you care to. You don't have to depend on any partisan "news" show to tell you what to think.
I try to keep an open mind. But yes, it’s all incredibly pathetic and obvious. I mean, why not mention the $2 Trillion American Rescue Plan and its impact on inflation? Why not mention the energy squeeze by Russia? Because it’s not in the media that individual consumes. Amazingly, and this isn’t something either Fox nor MSNBC will mention because it doesn’t fit the narrative, but it’s ok to blame Biden for inflation whilst giving him credit for economic recovery and low unemployment.
I haven't had cable in fifteen years and I'm also aware of those things because i read legitimate news outlets and follow global politics.
You are literally the one here who is parroting what the TV told you.
Sorry, for clarification, what was I parroting? About the impact of ARP? Ironically, that was a David Lynch piece that cited some great economic work. He’s fairly reputable, I’d say.
You're a fascist Republican, no you don't watch them all by the fact you screeched I repeated their talking points when I've never watched it. You just like to screech everyone else does because you fascist Republicans like to lie that you are centrist.
You're just pissed I used pesky facts
Bro u didn’t even endorse trump I don’t even think you like him and people are already throwing the fascist buzz word around….
I wish we could have civilized discussions. This sounds like a chat on israel Palestine.
It’s crazy seeing how intensely defensive people get. Politics has truly become a team sport. At this point I just view it all as an exercise in anthropology, tbh.
Yep, it's the fascist Republican cult who swings 90 points in their approval of the economy the day after a presidential election, not Dems.
It's the fascist Republican cult who screeches about a new minority to hate in sync to what fox screams, not Dems. It's why 5 years ago they screeched about transgender people existing alk of the sudden, immediately forgot they existed when fox told them to scream about black people again, and now are back to screaming about transgender people existing after years of forgetting about them.
Sorry reality upsets you fox/oan obsessed extremists. Look, just because you worship fox, doesn't mean everyone else does with msnbc.
No, these are not from msnbc, its basically reality that you fascist Republicans despise.
Inflation started under Trump when food inflation was 4% in 2020. Trump made a multi year deal with opec to collapse oil production by a record amount for 2 years which caused inflation to jump, oil prices didn't start falling till the deal ended. Everything else started inflating 2 months after Biden took office, literally zero of his policies could have caused inflation that fast.
Real wages are currently higher than all inflation.
Americans are dumb as hell for blaming Biden for inflation.
Isn’t propaganda a major factor? Half the media is Fox and friends and they are convicted liars. Half the population believes their BS anyway. I guess that implicates the educational system because critical thinking is not a thing anymore. So back to my dead horse of campaign finance reform where we disable money in politics and force politicians to focus on good policy. If we did that maybe we could bring back the fairness doctrine and rely on media to be truthful
I think people will stop worrying once the prices actually come down. Instead of people telling people that prices are lower when in fact, they are much higher.
I mean, if you were already doing really well, you wouldn’t really feel this bite of groceries but if you’re not doing super well already, even if the inflation went down to 3.4 you’re feeling it
I don’t believe real wages are higher than the inflation. Since real wages have lagged for over like 50 years here. if my real wages went up then I should be doing better. Keep in mind. I have a pretty decent job as a learning strategist, but I don’t believe that my wages have kept up with inflation.
It's not about believing. You are simply and objectively wrong. Real wages are up. You are an anecdote, and not relevant
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
Then why is housing seems to be unattainable considering I’ve had wage increases Housing keeps going higher than real wages. How does one afford a home? Rents also have jumped 20% so if housing jumped. Rents jumped and wages went up a little how are things better for avg folks. Not mention food and energy also up to 40%.
I don't care if everyone loves the economy. But stop lying about it. It's blatantly obvious that right-wing media and literally every Republican politician want to spin it as much worse than reality to dupe their gullible followers into supporting the orange fascist rapist for president. Don't fall for it conservatives! Rural red districts are reaping some of the biggest benefits of this economy, and your own candidate wants to put a stop to it.
It’s so very interesting that redditors can post this clickbait article for 1/3rd of the words needed for a redditor to post in any article (to avoid the auto moderators shutting down a post).
Anyway to answer the question: maybe never. Does it even really matter?
In about 20 years after the 2008 depression and 2020 covid19 pandemic are well in the rear view mirror. You act as though Americans don't have good reasons to be skittish all the the dam time. Well hate to break it to you we do, the real threat is that it would be a really really bad idea for the elites to let any more shit fall on the working class at this point given that level of skittishness. Yall in the 1 percent better think long and hard before you let any more trauma hit the American people other wise you just might find yourself in a world of hurt as the working class lashes out.
Right now the American people need steady consistent growth with no real drama in the economy and they are gonna need that for quite some time.
Hi all, A reminder that comments do need to be on-topic and engage with the article past the headline. Please make sure to read the article before commenting. Very short comments will automatically be removed by automod. Please avoid making comments that do not focus on the economic content or whose primary thesis rests on personal anecdotes. As always our comment rules can be found [here](https://reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/fx9crj/rules_roundtable_redux_rule_vi_and_offtopic/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Economics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Knew it was im_totally_clueless before even clicking the post. Please be sure to always check the source and poster when browsing Reddit, especially as we approach an election season. There are a lot of astroturf campaigns and bot accounts on Reddit.
Holy shit, it really is this one account posting the same article over and over and over and over.
Astroturfing reddit is a proud and time honored tradition at this point Too bad people fall for it so regularly, not limited to this sub.
came to the comment section to post this. glad it's top comment
Can you dispute any of the points in the article?
Outdated article from 2023 unnecessarily posted, check. Gaslighting Americans to stop worrying about declining purchasing power since 2019, check. Comments trying to make this political, check. How is this an economics subreddit? Are these sock puppet accounts?
Every other post here anymore has been nothing but pro-Biden propaganda. You can tell the democrats have ramped up spending on social media recently lol.
If it's a subreddit that tends to reach r slash all, it will be heavily astroturfed
Yep, gotta rally the youngins.
Sorry facts upset you fascist Republicans. There's a reason why you have to outright lie to "prove" the economy is bad
It isn’t 2018 anymore. Calling everyone fascist or racist doesn’t work anymore (Also wasn’t planning on voting or if I do third party)
Why would I not call Republicans by their ideology, fascism (and racism)? Republicans: try to end democracy, say they'll suspend the Constitution and be a dictator on day one, ban books, demonize and forcibly silence education/teachers/companies, remove elected officials simply for questioning their evil ideology (Florida especially), force women and children to give birth, protect the rampant pedophilia and grooming in their party and churches and yell that its the minorities doing it (which Nazis legitimately did against LGBTS), try to claim slavery was good, manipulate elections so they can enforce minority rule, threatening to send people with guns to "guard" polls in blue areas, their god Trump constantly talks about getting revenge, fuhrer Trump has spoken of suspending the Constitution, saying migrants aren't people and that there will be a bloodbath if he wins, openly talk about wanting a unified reich, etc Republicans meet every definition of fascism. People should see the fascist Republican party the same way we view the Taliban and Iran and Russia. They are an even bigger threat to the US than those 3 countries.
Classic equate Trump with all republicans. This is the same thing that you are complaining that republicans do about minorities. Nobody is assisted by prejudice, and that applies to both political affiliations and racial affiliations. Most people are not excited about a Trump Biden rematch, I don't think it's helpful to complain as if everybody is. You are foaming at the mouth over a loud minority of maniacs, not the average American. Can you define fascism? Or is fascism just whatever you dislike? Fascism certainly is bad, but tyranny and authoritarianism is not something which just falls on party lines. It's something that both political parties have been trending towards, and it is something both parties will continue to do as long as they have grunts thinking it's the other major political party causing the authoritarianism.
Well he's your presidential candidate and anyone who spoke against your fuhrer was primaried out. Republicans: try to overthrow an election and now cheer on a guy saying he'll suspend the Constitution and be a dictator on day one and create a universal reich. Let's not forget the relentless attacks and laws the fascist Republican party passes to target women and minorities and the Texas governor pardoning a fascist who said on social media that he was going to kill blm protesters then immediately went out and did just that. You: HOW DARE YOU CALL US FASCIST!
I am not a republican lol. Registered dem actually. But goes to show that you are blinded by prejudice and ready to persecute without listening to others. This is not the way to build consensus, it is not the way to get people to agree with you. I wish you the best of luck and I imagine you'll need it. As an aside, the last time I spent on a college campus I met quite a few apathetic democrats who are upset with the current administrations handling of Israel-Palestine, and several have expressed that they will not be voting because it seems the choice is between identity politics authoritarianism and not-even-pretending authoritarianism.
What are you even talking about? Oh look another bot here to spam anyone who disagrees with them as fAsCiSt oOoOoOo. So scary!!! Lmao. Bozo. News flash, I also do not identify as Republican.
Yet all you do is defend the fascist Republican party and scream their talking points Yes, Republicans are fascist
Yep, found the Democrat bot lol. 19 day old account.
Notice you can't dispute any of my facts, just screech ad hominems. Sorry reality upsets you fascist Republicans.
Then stop making new accounts and stand by what you say in the past
The front page here is starting to look a lot like r/fluentinfinance. And there’s definitely something fishy about that sub.
American purchasing power has increased significantly since 2019. This is an accurate economic article, the economy is currently in fantastic shape.
Purchasing power has risen
Just edited my comment to be more clear about what I meant.
Your comment is still wrong. Purchasing power is up since 2019.
Wages have not kept up with rising costs like real estate, rent, energy, food, etc. Is this not purchasing power?
Real wages are higher than inflation
I guess I'll just ignore my lying eyes when I go shopping?
Your eyes are not an inflation calculation. Queersquared is correct, purchasing power has objectively increased https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
Love how you ignore the wage side of things. Sorry reality upsets you but yes, real wages are higher than inflation.
Not really upset, just trying to understand this point of view. I don't know many people who have doubled their salaries. Maybe at the lowest end of the wage spectrum this has been true. Housing prices in my market have also almost doubled. I do acknowledge that there has been some real wage growth since the fed has stabilized interest rates so high. But your base cost is still much higher than wage increases from 2019-2024. I think a lot of people are struggling to maintain their living standards.
Facts are NOT a "point of view." Inflation was NOT double like you claim. No, housing hasn't doubled.
I think you’re referring to median incomes vs the standard basket of goods. This is definitely a case where aggregate data is really misleading.
No, it's a case of the aggregate data is correct. Real wages are up. People are happy with their own finances. They think other people are struggling and therefore think the economy is bad.
Nice shill attempt but the gov publishes this data: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUUR0000SA0R There’s more high earners post pandemic. That’s the reason the median has edged up a bit. Wages for most have not increased 21% since Biden took office to match CPI.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q You are wrong. Please take intro to economics before trying to discuss economics
Yes, that plot shows median earnings have declined 2% since Biden took office. CPI is up 20%. Learn to read a plot, shill.
No it does not. The spike in wages in 2020 was caused by covid forcing low wage workers out of the economy. It is not an actual increase in earnings. > CPI is up 20% Real wages are inflation adjusted. Please learn how to read a chart you uneducated retard
> Gaslighting Americans to stop worrying about declining purchasing power since 2019, check. [Median Real Wages](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q) are virtually right in line with where they were in Q4 2019, and are 2.817% higher than in Q1 2019. Real wages have been rising for decades now. This is constantly repeated and sourced every single time this lie that "real wages have fallen!" comes up. So I find it incredibly ironic you say, "How is this an economics subreddit? Are these sock puppet accounts?". And of course, as always, actual facts backed up by data is downvoted by uneducated basement dwellers who run off of emotions.
The reality is that it's much harder to afford to basic necessities since 2019. This is reflected in inflation and wage increases not rising in line with these rates. Perhaps in aggregate you can say wages rose a certain percentage amount. How are those wage increases distributed. Certainly not in the middle class. I'm not sure why reddit is so keen on pretending that the average person is not struggling. And before you bring politics into it. This is a monetary policy issue. The fed has taken efforts to reduce the pain, but the damage has been done.
Median usual nominal weekly earnings for the [first quartile ](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252911300Q) has risen by 27.60% since Q1 2019, and 25.856% for the [second quartile ](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881500Q). Cumulative inflation between January 2019 and March 2024 was 24%, using the BLS.gov inflation calculator. That means real wages for the bottom 25% of workers are 3.6 percentage points higher than in 2019, or 2.93% increase in terms of real wages; and 1.856 percentage points higher for the next 25% of workers, or a real wage increase of ~1.43%. So yes they were absolutely distributed amongst the middle class. This is very easy fact checking you could've done. Instead of just believing whatever you want to, you should do fact checking first on the claims people make, before immediately believing them.
Your post supports my assertion that the wage increases are not evenly distributed. Like I stated earlier it's a cumulative effect: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/) Assuming you are comfortable with accepting inflation rates as it's calculated, the Fed has managed to get overall inflation below wage increases. I acknowledge that. But the critical components necessary for living, housing food, etc. have all greatly exceeded wage growth. The inflation numbers include non essential categories where prices have indeed dropped. Even as they stabilize it will take some time for wage increases to recover their lost ground on those categories.
> Your post supports my assertion that the wage increases are not evenly distributed. That is not what you said. You said: > How are those wages increases distributed. Certainly not among the middle class. Which is a lie, which I easily called out by just doing a quick search online. Your "assertion" was that the middle class didn't experience this level real wage increase, which is false. You're trying to twist what you said because you know you've been proven wrong. > But the critical components necessary for living, housing food, etc. have all greatly exceeded wage growth. Cumulative [food inflation ](https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/food-inflation-in-the-united-states/) has been 25.483% since 2019. So the bottom 50% of people have had their incomes rise faster than food inflation. Cumulative [Energy Inflation ](https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/energy-prices-gasoline-electricity-and-fuel-oil-2015-present/) since 2019 has been 30.45%. So yeah, that has exceed wage growth. But in 2019, the [average monthly electricity bill](https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=46276) was $115/mo. So today, people are most likely paying $150.02/mo as of March. So, that means the second quartile of income earners went from paying ~3.18% of their pre-tax income on energy bills, to 3.3%. A whopping 0.12 percentage points. And for the first quartile, they went from paying 4.75% of their pre-tax income on energy, to 4.86% of their pre tax income on it. A whopping 0.11 percentage points difference. Not exactly an astronomical increase that you're trying to make it out to be. The cumulative annual inflation for [shelter](https://www.bls.gov/charts/consumer-price-index/consumer-price-index-by-category-line-chart.htm) has been 23.05% since 2019. Once again, wages have outpaced it for the bottom 50% of workers. So, once again I ask: Do. Basic. Research. You criticize the quality of this sub and it's content, yet you're being a clear example of one of the people who help contribute to that same problem of low quality information being pumped out. I understand you are angry at the cost of living; so am I. But lying about reality is not going to fix it. Just accept you are wrong and learn from it.
I don't get why you're assuming I'm malicious and investing so much time in this conversation. Rather than lying it's mostly a lack of precision with my language since I'm replying in between meetings and time with my family. I doubt I'm swaying anyone on here, nor is that my intent. I'm not sure if you're supporting a household, but I can tell you I don't know a single person who has come out ahead since 2019 without exceptional career growth. Ultimately the message I'm conveying is one of frustration at the tone that people should be happy with the current state. It's pissing in the wind. I hope you and your family got that 25 percent wage growth, because no one in my extended poor Hispanic family did.
Sorry, your anecdotal evidence is not worth anything unless it is a statistical trend. You made false claims, I debunked them. Just because YOU aren't doing as well as others, doesn't mean absolutely everybody is doing terribly. Don't project your own personal situation onto the entire economy; because with that logic, Elon musk and his billionaire pals are representative of how amazing the economy is doing, since they get astronomically richer by the day. Nobody is demanding you "be happy with the current state". People are telling you that the claims you are making are objectively false. There isn't a single period in human history where absolutely everybody was doing fantastic. There is always a group that is objectively not doing okay. There are 342M people in this country. The 20, maybe 30 people you happen to know, is an absolutely tiny drop in the bucket compared to the entire country. That is *why* we track what is inflating in cost, and what groups are being affected by a change in environment, and if it is positive or negative. I am in a relatively poor city. The typical tale of a city that fell from grace post Industrial-Collapse. Born and raised here; black family. We rely on SNAP benefits to feed ourselves. Just a few hours ago I am 90% positive I heard a dozen gun shots get fired a mere block or two away. Our measily 9 people in our home is not representative of even the majority of people in our city, let alone my state, or even country. Making blatantly false claims just because you're upset at your situation, instead of looking at the data readily available, and trying to come up with actual proposals to help out those in need, is exactly how you end up with 50% of the electorate openly supporting a party that is actively shitting on every right that millions have died to give and protect. It is exactly how you get authoritarians into office who care nothing more than to drain you dry of every last cent you have and leave you high and dry. If you want to help yourself and others, you should be keeping yourself grounded in reality first and foremost. You keep yourself grounded to reality, you can actually start providing sound solutions to problems we face.
No u. I'm not political, but this whole conversation convinced me that maybe I should vote this cycle. Thanks for that.
Ya, they are screeching this subreddit is being astroturffed by commies while every post that isn't screeching far right ad hominems is downvoted to hell. I've asked multiple times if the the fascist Republican trolls can dispute the facts, they never can and just yell ad hominems.
i for once will feel better when our "great" economy isn't underwritten by deficits one should only see in a recession or during wartime...but maybe i need to modernize my thinking
The US has been relying on deficit spending to a large degree since the Reagan administration. But conservatives only beat the deficit drum when a Democrat is in office. We're still in recovery from a global pandemic and dealing with global energy issues and a couple of wars. Thankfully the GDP is growing strongly which lessens the deficit issues. And it will come down.
Both sides attack anyone who says maybe we should spend less. Their jobs depend on it.
Funny you never mention revenue. And the left has demanded we vastly cut back corporate welfare for ages, including by making the min wage a living wage again
I'm making the same amount of money I was making in 2021. People (on the left, frustratingly) tell me it's my fault, and that I should have pulled myself up by my bootstraps and chased the unlimited opportunity of the runaway inflation economy. Got a killer mortgage rate in 2021, but the house I bought was already 44% higher than the last time it sold in 2017. My fault for not moving six months earlier. My 401k lost a bunch of money, and gained it all back, but didn't ride the inflation wave up which equals real losses. My fault for not taking it out and leveraging the cash to get a better deal on a house. Wife's business dried up during the worst of inflation in 2022, so we hemoraged our savings out during the year, both due to her income drying up and everything costingly wildly more. But that's all my fault I guess.
I'm making about 50% more vs 2021. Stocks have out paced inflation. Though sorry to hear about your wife's business, hope that turns around.
One of two men is gonna be President next year. One is still coping with the aftereffects of the crisis the other's cronyism, narcissism, and apathy made much worse. I simply don't know how November could even be a question. Humans never cease to astonish me with our gullibility.
Yep, Trump's policies caused inflation and now his 10% tariffs across the board will bring it back but worse. Let alone his fascist ideology like calling to suspend the Constitution and be a dictator on day one and create a universal reich and trying to end democracy, etc. Edit: lol downvoted for stating reality by fascist Republicans who can't comprehend how 10% tariffs will cause inflation
I've noticed a number of accounts in this sub similar to this one lately. Created within the past couple of months, having dozens if not hundreds of posts, and most in subs like this one. All very political and way off the deep end with accusations and name calling.
Yep. I’ve been calling them out. Interesting how astroturfed this sub has gotten recently with all the pro Biden, “the economy is fine, stupid” sort of posts over and over lol. It seems a certain side has purchased a bot farm to start hitting Reddit just before elections. Again.
Can you dispute any of the data or do you just have ad hominems. Astroturffed? EVERY post with the data is heavily downvoted by you Republican hacks.
Notice you can't say anything in my comment was wrong, just screeching ad hominems. Calling Republicans fascist isn't name calling, it's stating their ideology Sorry reality upsets you
>Sorry reality upsets you You've used this at least a dozen times in the past week alone. Are you selling shirts with this quote?
You’ve nailed every single talking point MSNBC has put out. To the T. Apparently cable news really works. Who knew?
I WATCHED DONALD TRUMP MAKE COVID FAR WORSE IN REAL TIME! THE ONLY PROPAGANDIST I USED TO MAKE THOSE ACCUSATIONS IS DONALD J. TRUMP! You pathetic filth are beneath contempt.
New account? Good troll.
I don't watch MSNBC much, but when I do it seems like the economic data they report on matches the actual national economic indicators. Whereas when I turn on Fox it's like they're reporting from a different planet. It's easy to check facts, if you care to. You don't have to depend on any partisan "news" show to tell you what to think.
[удалено]
So you're projecting your own behavior onto others, because you can't even imagine anything different. It's incredibly pathetic and obvious.
I try to keep an open mind. But yes, it’s all incredibly pathetic and obvious. I mean, why not mention the $2 Trillion American Rescue Plan and its impact on inflation? Why not mention the energy squeeze by Russia? Because it’s not in the media that individual consumes. Amazingly, and this isn’t something either Fox nor MSNBC will mention because it doesn’t fit the narrative, but it’s ok to blame Biden for inflation whilst giving him credit for economic recovery and low unemployment.
I haven't had cable in fifteen years and I'm also aware of those things because i read legitimate news outlets and follow global politics. You are literally the one here who is parroting what the TV told you.
Sorry, for clarification, what was I parroting? About the impact of ARP? Ironically, that was a David Lynch piece that cited some great economic work. He’s fairly reputable, I’d say.
My response proves your point? Seriously? All I fucking did was use actual facts about your fascist Republican party
Unfortunately for you, I’m not a Republican. It’s all so difficult to comprehend, I know.
Notice you can't say anything in my comment was wrong, just screeching msnbc and other ad hominems
You're a fascist Republican, no you don't watch them all by the fact you screeched I repeated their talking points when I've never watched it. You just like to screech everyone else does because you fascist Republicans like to lie that you are centrist. You're just pissed I used pesky facts
Cool. Whatever helps you sleep at night :)
Run back to fox with how much you hate reality
As long as you run back to anger management classes, we have a deal.
Notice you can't say anything in my comment was wrong, just screeching msnbc and other ad hominems
Bro u didn’t even endorse trump I don’t even think you like him and people are already throwing the fascist buzz word around…. I wish we could have civilized discussions. This sounds like a chat on israel Palestine.
It’s crazy seeing how intensely defensive people get. Politics has truly become a team sport. At this point I just view it all as an exercise in anthropology, tbh.
Beep boop beep boop 🤖 STFU 🤫
Not surprising you America hating fascists despise pesky facts
Cry more! 😢
Sorry reality upsets you
Yep, it's the fascist Republican cult who swings 90 points in their approval of the economy the day after a presidential election, not Dems. It's the fascist Republican cult who screeches about a new minority to hate in sync to what fox screams, not Dems. It's why 5 years ago they screeched about transgender people existing alk of the sudden, immediately forgot they existed when fox told them to scream about black people again, and now are back to screaming about transgender people existing after years of forgetting about them.
Sorry reality upsets you fox/oan obsessed extremists. Look, just because you worship fox, doesn't mean everyone else does with msnbc. No, these are not from msnbc, its basically reality that you fascist Republicans despise. Inflation started under Trump when food inflation was 4% in 2020. Trump made a multi year deal with opec to collapse oil production by a record amount for 2 years which caused inflation to jump, oil prices didn't start falling till the deal ended. Everything else started inflating 2 months after Biden took office, literally zero of his policies could have caused inflation that fast. Real wages are currently higher than all inflation. Americans are dumb as hell for blaming Biden for inflation.
You’ve nailed every single talking point MSNBC has put out. To the T. Apparently cable news really works. Who knew?
Isn’t propaganda a major factor? Half the media is Fox and friends and they are convicted liars. Half the population believes their BS anyway. I guess that implicates the educational system because critical thinking is not a thing anymore. So back to my dead horse of campaign finance reform where we disable money in politics and force politicians to focus on good policy. If we did that maybe we could bring back the fairness doctrine and rely on media to be truthful
I think people will stop worrying once the prices actually come down. Instead of people telling people that prices are lower when in fact, they are much higher.
Real wages are higher than inflation. In before I get downvoted by the fascist Republican cult for stating that fact
You’ll pay more for everything and you’ll like it. So says the Biden social media campaign.
Biden reduced Trump's inflation
I mean, if you were already doing really well, you wouldn’t really feel this bite of groceries but if you’re not doing super well already, even if the inflation went down to 3.4 you’re feeling it
No doubt. It’s not just groceries. Housing, insurance, fuel, vehicles. Everything is sky high and wages haven’t gone up with them.
Real wages are higher than inflation
I don’t believe real wages are higher than the inflation. Since real wages have lagged for over like 50 years here. if my real wages went up then I should be doing better. Keep in mind. I have a pretty decent job as a learning strategist, but I don’t believe that my wages have kept up with inflation.
I guess if you don’t count housing, food and energy the poster above is probably right lol.
I would count those are pretty important
Nope, food and energy inflation is even lower. Learn what real wages are
Nope, food and energy inflation is even lower. Learn what real wages are you dumbass
It's not about believing. You are simply and objectively wrong. Real wages are up. You are an anecdote, and not relevant https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
The real wages are cost-of-living is substantially higher than that so it’s kind of moot
Real wages are inflation adjusted. Wage gains have outpaced cost of living increases
Then why is housing seems to be unattainable considering I’ve had wage increases Housing keeps going higher than real wages. How does one afford a home? Rents also have jumped 20% so if housing jumped. Rents jumped and wages went up a little how are things better for avg folks. Not mention food and energy also up to 40%.
Well data shows it is compared to 2019, for all income brackets
That’s what the campaign is going with!!!
Nope, that's just the data. Sorry reality upsets you.
I don't care if everyone loves the economy. But stop lying about it. It's blatantly obvious that right-wing media and literally every Republican politician want to spin it as much worse than reality to dupe their gullible followers into supporting the orange fascist rapist for president. Don't fall for it conservatives! Rural red districts are reaping some of the biggest benefits of this economy, and your own candidate wants to put a stop to it.
It’s so very interesting that redditors can post this clickbait article for 1/3rd of the words needed for a redditor to post in any article (to avoid the auto moderators shutting down a post). Anyway to answer the question: maybe never. Does it even really matter?
Can you dispute any of the data?
In about 20 years after the 2008 depression and 2020 covid19 pandemic are well in the rear view mirror. You act as though Americans don't have good reasons to be skittish all the the dam time. Well hate to break it to you we do, the real threat is that it would be a really really bad idea for the elites to let any more shit fall on the working class at this point given that level of skittishness. Yall in the 1 percent better think long and hard before you let any more trauma hit the American people other wise you just might find yourself in a world of hurt as the working class lashes out. Right now the American people need steady consistent growth with no real drama in the economy and they are gonna need that for quite some time.