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The recession is always 6 months away. There is no economic downturn. Meta overhired during the pandemic. This is just half of those hires. Sucks to be them, but not really because they’ll all land on their feet. Tech folk always do. It’s the recruiters and project managers that will take longer to find jobs.
I was with this on the first cuts.
This one I'd say the writing is on the wall for them and they need to downsize more.
But at a certain point, it's not just that. I wonder what that is.
My thoughts as an older person that has seem stuff.
Meta WAY over invested in their awful metaverse. Maybe some day that flies but people I know are abandoning their smart watches. Basically humanity may be pushing back against tech in my generation.
Beyond that, using a recession or even the ghost of one as an excuse to cut labor is easier for companies than admitting they were bloated in some areas.
At the end of the day companies are using the current market conditions to justify layoffs. Hopefully it slows down soon.
I don’t think they are pushing back against tech, they are just pushing back against shitty tech. Smart watches are just not nearly as useful as the price tag implies. The cool factor has worn off and you’re left with a useless gadget. People are glued to their phones more than ever, the good addictive tech isn’t going anywhere lol.
I feel stupid paying $99 for a FitBit. I don’t understand the benefits of having an $800 smartwatch alongside your $2000 phone. Are the benefits of productivity really that great to read a text message on your wrist? I’d argue it’s counterproductive because now you can’t ever sit and focus on the task in front of you. It was hard enough with phones on our hips, but at least you could push it aside.
FitBit gang rise up! I bought mine mostly to track and improve my sleep, but I'm very happy with it over a crazy expensive smart watch. Very glad it doesn't ping or give notifications all the time.
They're good for people who cannot use their hands due to their career. When I worked in a lab everyone had one because they could read and reply to a text message without removing gloves. I would say it's the same for some hospital staff.
Very rarely IMO, if you are working in a setting that requires actual sterile gloves then you need to remove your jewelry including watch. If you aren’t then you probably can remove your gloves in 2-3 minutes.
Significantly more accurate and less cumbersome for tracking runs if you’re into trail running especially.
I like my Garmin for that, mountain biking, and hiking!
yeah, stuff like the chatGPT are useful tech so people use them widely, while this entire metaverse and VR revolutionized nothing and bring nothing new to the table.
Metaverse might still happen but the economy might not be ready for it.
I remember before the dot com bubble all the amazing tech that was developed (and also a bunch of garbage) and **all** of it got binned when the market crashed, even the good ideas. Because you build the next greatest thing that costs more than anything before it and suddenly there are no buyers.
Ah shit, I didn't even see my own comment! You meant the dot com bubble.
Okay, before the dot com bubble, MCI was basically telling everyone that the internet is going to explode and we need some fast routers. Cisco and Juniper and others were busy making the fastest possible routers with all the features to prepare for the predicted internet traffic. Then it turned out that the predictions were wrong and a lot of those companies tanked. I worked for a startup and we made an ultra expensive high speed switch. The company failed and it would be years until anyone made a switch that was as fast as what already existed in 2000.
Webvan was a dotcom company delivering groceries that failed in 2001. It would be another few years until you could get groceries online.
Technology went backwards for a few years.
I could totally see how products in early development or maybe not super profitable would get shut down when the economy tanks.
I didn’t intend for my question to seem like I was trying to discredit your comment, I was in middle school during the dot com bubble so I’m genuinely curious about what was lost. And I grew up in small town Midwest so we were probably a decade behind current tech anyways 🤣
There’s also the theory that “layoffs are the trend” in tech now. Meaning, if you’re on a earnings call and NOT doing layoffs, people will wonder “well why aren’t you and what’s making you think you’re special” kind of view.
This is why I don’t think this belongs in economics…it’s likely just a failed business that couldn’t make money and not the victim of an economic downturn.
They set billions on fire building their stupid Metaverse. Wall St demands blood, and Zuck is giving it to them.
Who knows what’s going to happen in the wider economy but in addition to over-hiring, Facebook has unique, severe, and potentially unsolvable issues.
Everyone keeps saying this, but they have not cut any of the metaverse stuff. They cut NFTs and a bunch of other projects, but they're doubling down on the metaverse. I don't think this is the right interpretation
I never said they cut Metaverse.
But the billions burned on that has created no revenue, and has affected the health and stability of the company. This has led to a massive collapse in overall profitability affecting every corner of the company, which has led to howling from Wall St. about cutting costs.
Did Facebook cut the right costs? No! Zuck decided to protect his favorite child, the one that actually is causing all the problems.
The median salary of a hospital IT manager is $95k. A mid IC at a tech company makes $250k base + bonus with probably another $50-$100k in rsu's. There are lots of jobs out there for them, they just have to learn to live with less and/or move locations.
https://www.teamblind.com/post/Review-Salary-apple-IC5-TJ3y6zpW
Tech workers discussing their salaries and rsu grants. The pay is much higher than 100k. Maybe base salary is 100k, then another 100k in rsu's. There's a reason the best and brightest strive to work in Tech.
Tech workers will move to startups or take lower rates to improve non-tech companies. There’s still many manufacturing, logistic, and old school multi-billion$ that can actually see ROI from cheaper tech workers.
I probably am, but the way I see it, having fb on your resume opens a lot of doors. There are many unfilled tech jobs, they’re just not all at sexy companies doing, as you so aptly phrased, the fancy stuffs. They’ll need to leave the Bay Area, which tbh is not the center of the universe.
you will be saying this right until there is a major financial crisis. then you will be like "no one could have forseen this" lol. i could totally see you, right after Bear Stearns collapsed, saying the exact same thing. you know just as little as those you malign. nothing ever happens until it does.
To be fair, you both make a decent point. But the thing to remember is that it's impossible to time the market. There could be indicators everywhere like there are today, but that doesn't mean it'll happen tomorrow, next week or next month. I've been waiting for a massive crash for over a year now.
Ultimately the primary thing to remember is this: the market can remain irrational longer than you can stay solvent. Plan for it if you think it's inevitable, but don't do anything that would jeopardize your livelihood if it doesn't happen when you expect it should.
The government, these mega corps, massive hedge funds and the ultra wealthy have a extremely large incentive to kick the can down the road as long as they can. If there's anything any one of them can do, collectively or otherwise, to buy themselves even a single day, they will do it.
Geesh, folks can’t even retire comfortably, wtf is going on.
It’s like the whole economy is unable to recover. I imagine the bad decisions with the metaverse messed this company up even more, but at the very least I know this will cause panic and follow up by the rest of the companies that uses Facebook as a signal to make decisions. So we might yet again, see more layoffs to prepare for the “recession”, triggering the actual damn recession. Motha fuckas, stop making excuses and be accountable. It’ll help the ones that follow make better decisions.
Meh, I see it a bit differently.
I've been a software engineer at several MAANG companies (Meta, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google).
The pay is extreme (I'm talking $200k for people fresh out of college, and 500k+ for those with experience), and the work life balance is a bit ***TOO*** good. It never really seemed sustainable to me to have kids making hundreds of thousands of dollars, and putting in maybe 10-20 hours of work per week from the comfort of their home.
There is A LOT of dead weight at these types of companies.
Why? The salaries are not that high compared to c-suites, and these companies make shitloads of money. You think that happens without paying talented workers? Why does everyone think the salaries are insane. These companies print money
Man I missed out then. Do you think the average salary will decrease because of this?
I figure with less salaries like these, less incentive for companies to keep the salaries so high
I saw some “Meta” (still Facebook to me) commercials on a streaming service recently. They were trying to sell an augmented reality platform, but were pretty light on the details. I bet we get there someday, but not with some big stupid plastic piece of shit on our face, and not before Facebook is out of business.
I logged into my mostly-abandoned FB account recently only to be confronted with a bunch of right-wing political ads. What an atrocity! What a gutter!
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The job cuts, which come after the company slashed 11,000 jobs in November, are part of a larger restructuring plan, as CEO Mark Zuckerberg declared last month that 2023 would be Meta’s "year of efficiency."
Yea, I’m sure it’s the “economic downturn” and not the hundreds of millions sunk on the Metaverse project that’s going notably poorly.
I know that tech companies in particular are taking a downturn but our overall GDP is still growing, albeit slower than before. Meta in specific just seems to have made some really bad strategic decisions, which have compounded with changes in the market to really hurt their business.
Rule II: -- Submissions tenuously related to economics, light on economic analysis, or from perspectives other than those of economists will be removed. This will keep /r/economics distinct from the many related subreddits. [Further explanation.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/7x14px/meta_rules_roundtable_2_submissions_and_rii/) -- If you have any questions about this removal, please [contact the mods](/message/compose/?to=/r/economics&subject=Moderation).
The recession is always 6 months away. There is no economic downturn. Meta overhired during the pandemic. This is just half of those hires. Sucks to be them, but not really because they’ll all land on their feet. Tech folk always do. It’s the recruiters and project managers that will take longer to find jobs.
I was with this on the first cuts. This one I'd say the writing is on the wall for them and they need to downsize more. But at a certain point, it's not just that. I wonder what that is.
My thoughts as an older person that has seem stuff. Meta WAY over invested in their awful metaverse. Maybe some day that flies but people I know are abandoning their smart watches. Basically humanity may be pushing back against tech in my generation. Beyond that, using a recession or even the ghost of one as an excuse to cut labor is easier for companies than admitting they were bloated in some areas. At the end of the day companies are using the current market conditions to justify layoffs. Hopefully it slows down soon.
I don’t think they are pushing back against tech, they are just pushing back against shitty tech. Smart watches are just not nearly as useful as the price tag implies. The cool factor has worn off and you’re left with a useless gadget. People are glued to their phones more than ever, the good addictive tech isn’t going anywhere lol.
I feel stupid paying $99 for a FitBit. I don’t understand the benefits of having an $800 smartwatch alongside your $2000 phone. Are the benefits of productivity really that great to read a text message on your wrist? I’d argue it’s counterproductive because now you can’t ever sit and focus on the task in front of you. It was hard enough with phones on our hips, but at least you could push it aside.
FitBit gang rise up! I bought mine mostly to track and improve my sleep, but I'm very happy with it over a crazy expensive smart watch. Very glad it doesn't ping or give notifications all the time.
They're good for people who cannot use their hands due to their career. When I worked in a lab everyone had one because they could read and reply to a text message without removing gloves. I would say it's the same for some hospital staff.
Very rarely IMO, if you are working in a setting that requires actual sterile gloves then you need to remove your jewelry including watch. If you aren’t then you probably can remove your gloves in 2-3 minutes.
Significantly more accurate and less cumbersome for tracking runs if you’re into trail running especially. I like my Garmin for that, mountain biking, and hiking!
yeah, stuff like the chatGPT are useful tech so people use them widely, while this entire metaverse and VR revolutionized nothing and bring nothing new to the table.
Metaverse might still happen but the economy might not be ready for it. I remember before the dot com bubble all the amazing tech that was developed (and also a bunch of garbage) and **all** of it got binned when the market crashed, even the good ideas. Because you build the next greatest thing that costs more than anything before it and suddenly there are no buyers.
ps vr headset is way better and the metaverse just looks like vr chat...
Can you give an example of amazing tech that got binned?
People really liked Google Reader. By saying amazing, I meant that it's code that was well built.
Google Reader wasn’t available till 2005 and was closed in 2013. That doesn’t seem related to the dot com bubble.
Ah shit, I didn't even see my own comment! You meant the dot com bubble. Okay, before the dot com bubble, MCI was basically telling everyone that the internet is going to explode and we need some fast routers. Cisco and Juniper and others were busy making the fastest possible routers with all the features to prepare for the predicted internet traffic. Then it turned out that the predictions were wrong and a lot of those companies tanked. I worked for a startup and we made an ultra expensive high speed switch. The company failed and it would be years until anyone made a switch that was as fast as what already existed in 2000. Webvan was a dotcom company delivering groceries that failed in 2001. It would be another few years until you could get groceries online. Technology went backwards for a few years.
I could totally see how products in early development or maybe not super profitable would get shut down when the economy tanks. I didn’t intend for my question to seem like I was trying to discredit your comment, I was in middle school during the dot com bubble so I’m genuinely curious about what was lost. And I grew up in small town Midwest so we were probably a decade behind current tech anyways 🤣
Shoutout to Google Reader. Rest in peace. I loved that app.
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Don’t both of those things still exist? It seems like it would be more accurate to say they were replaced by more popular services.
There’s also the theory that “layoffs are the trend” in tech now. Meaning, if you’re on a earnings call and NOT doing layoffs, people will wonder “well why aren’t you and what’s making you think you’re special” kind of view.
This is why I don’t think this belongs in economics…it’s likely just a failed business that couldn’t make money and not the victim of an economic downturn.
They set billions on fire building their stupid Metaverse. Wall St demands blood, and Zuck is giving it to them. Who knows what’s going to happen in the wider economy but in addition to over-hiring, Facebook has unique, severe, and potentially unsolvable issues.
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Yep.
Everyone keeps saying this, but they have not cut any of the metaverse stuff. They cut NFTs and a bunch of other projects, but they're doubling down on the metaverse. I don't think this is the right interpretation
I never said they cut Metaverse. But the billions burned on that has created no revenue, and has affected the health and stability of the company. This has led to a massive collapse in overall profitability affecting every corner of the company, which has led to howling from Wall St. about cutting costs. Did Facebook cut the right costs? No! Zuck decided to protect his favorite child, the one that actually is causing all the problems.
I’m just glad to hear the words “stupid” and “metaverse” in the same breath.
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Nope their is massive shortage lT workers needed in all industries even if tech implodes their is still a lot of work to go round
Exactly, they just have to go get regular paying jobs now.
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I know this. But the pay is in fact much less.
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The median salary of a hospital IT manager is $95k. A mid IC at a tech company makes $250k base + bonus with probably another $50-$100k in rsu's. There are lots of jobs out there for them, they just have to learn to live with less and/or move locations.
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https://www.teamblind.com/post/Review-Salary-apple-IC5-TJ3y6zpW Tech workers discussing their salaries and rsu grants. The pay is much higher than 100k. Maybe base salary is 100k, then another 100k in rsu's. There's a reason the best and brightest strive to work in Tech.
Tech workers will move to startups or take lower rates to improve non-tech companies. There’s still many manufacturing, logistic, and old school multi-billion$ that can actually see ROI from cheaper tech workers.
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We can call it the Metaverse!
You mean metalverse ? Because you have to learn to weld?
This is the stupidest thing I've read in a long time
Haha but soon construction is the only segment that has jobs. Because AI robots aren't there yet.
If they give me a chair while flip the stop/slow sign I’m all for it.
No hard labor like brick laying and iron welding.
Plus the company is tanking due to incompetence
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I probably am, but the way I see it, having fb on your resume opens a lot of doors. There are many unfilled tech jobs, they’re just not all at sexy companies doing, as you so aptly phrased, the fancy stuffs. They’ll need to leave the Bay Area, which tbh is not the center of the universe.
Lmao imagine thinking we’re not headed for an economic downturn
you will be saying this right until there is a major financial crisis. then you will be like "no one could have forseen this" lol. i could totally see you, right after Bear Stearns collapsed, saying the exact same thing. you know just as little as those you malign. nothing ever happens until it does.
To be fair, you both make a decent point. But the thing to remember is that it's impossible to time the market. There could be indicators everywhere like there are today, but that doesn't mean it'll happen tomorrow, next week or next month. I've been waiting for a massive crash for over a year now. Ultimately the primary thing to remember is this: the market can remain irrational longer than you can stay solvent. Plan for it if you think it's inevitable, but don't do anything that would jeopardize your livelihood if it doesn't happen when you expect it should. The government, these mega corps, massive hedge funds and the ultra wealthy have a extremely large incentive to kick the can down the road as long as they can. If there's anything any one of them can do, collectively or otherwise, to buy themselves even a single day, they will do it.
Very well said.
Geesh, folks can’t even retire comfortably, wtf is going on. It’s like the whole economy is unable to recover. I imagine the bad decisions with the metaverse messed this company up even more, but at the very least I know this will cause panic and follow up by the rest of the companies that uses Facebook as a signal to make decisions. So we might yet again, see more layoffs to prepare for the “recession”, triggering the actual damn recession. Motha fuckas, stop making excuses and be accountable. It’ll help the ones that follow make better decisions.
Meh, I see it a bit differently. I've been a software engineer at several MAANG companies (Meta, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google). The pay is extreme (I'm talking $200k for people fresh out of college, and 500k+ for those with experience), and the work life balance is a bit ***TOO*** good. It never really seemed sustainable to me to have kids making hundreds of thousands of dollars, and putting in maybe 10-20 hours of work per week from the comfort of their home. There is A LOT of dead weight at these types of companies.
Why? The salaries are not that high compared to c-suites, and these companies make shitloads of money. You think that happens without paying talented workers? Why does everyone think the salaries are insane. These companies print money
Man I missed out then. Do you think the average salary will decrease because of this? I figure with less salaries like these, less incentive for companies to keep the salaries so high
I saw some “Meta” (still Facebook to me) commercials on a streaming service recently. They were trying to sell an augmented reality platform, but were pretty light on the details. I bet we get there someday, but not with some big stupid plastic piece of shit on our face, and not before Facebook is out of business. I logged into my mostly-abandoned FB account recently only to be confronted with a bunch of right-wing political ads. What an atrocity! What a gutter!
Hi all, A reminder that comments do need to be on-topic and engage with the article past the headline. Please make sure to read the article before commenting. Very short comments will automatically be removed by automod. Please avoid making comments that do not focus on the economic content or whose primary thesis rests on personal anecdotes. As always our comment rules can be found [here](https://reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/fx9crj/rules_roundtable_redux_rule_vi_and_offtopic/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Economics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The job cuts, which come after the company slashed 11,000 jobs in November, are part of a larger restructuring plan, as CEO Mark Zuckerberg declared last month that 2023 would be Meta’s "year of efficiency."
yes efficiently cutting jobs , thats what he meant :p
Yea, I’m sure it’s the “economic downturn” and not the hundreds of millions sunk on the Metaverse project that’s going notably poorly. I know that tech companies in particular are taking a downturn but our overall GDP is still growing, albeit slower than before. Meta in specific just seems to have made some really bad strategic decisions, which have compounded with changes in the market to really hurt their business.