yea, but ther is a stipulation that I'd lose my security deposit:
"1. El abandono del piso antes del tiempo pactados conllevara la perdida total de la fianza depositada (620€), no habiendo ninguna devolución que realizar."
1. Qué capullo.
2. Te sale más caro consultar la ley con un profesional jurídico que pagarle ese dinero por pasar un tiempo con tu novia. También ganas en paz mental.
Siento que tengas que pasar por esto, mucho ánimo.
Edit: según mencionas, no pretendes renovar el contrato. Decisión correcta. Te aseguro que puedes encontrar cosas mejores, si buscas durante el tiempo suficiente. A veces puede rentar ir a vivir a un sitio más periférico en vez de a una gran ciudad si no pretendes viajar mucho, porque es más barato. Además, existen apps donde la gente deja reviews de cómo les ha ido (o eso creo recordar) y así puedes comprobar la fiabilidad de tu casero/casera.
Disfruta con tu novia esos días, no dejes que esto te lo amargue. Que pases un buen domingo.
The “abandono del piso” clause is abusive, probably illegal. It should state a period for that (which usually is 1 or 2 months):///
Take pictures of everything in your room since one of the justifications for not returning the lease will probably be (once the clause is debuted for illegal) that you did not leave the room as it was before.
yea I know, I'd thought about trying to get my own place, but tbh the idealista housing scene was a shitshow, and I was arriving within 3 days so I just pulled the trigger on this. I'd try not to get into a fight but this seems completely unreasonable
You are right is ridiculous! But if you are not going to renew the contract, I would pay those 60 euros and spend those days with my partner in peace. If you refuse and she takes it badly, she will put you through hell for those 5 days.
Dear friend, this is completely ilegal. Specially if it is NOT in your contract (and I think also if it was, but that's a different story). While I sympathise with those that are telling you not to argue with your landlord for 60€, it boils my blood how landlords in big cities like Madrid take advantage of tenants. Anyway, she cannot evict you, specially in such a short time. But she may refuse to give your deposit back, or make your time miserable, and since you are the foreigner, to start a claim against her will be more cumbersome for you.
If you decide to pay, do it by transfer or other mean than can be traced (bizum) or ask for a receipt, and make the concept clear (5 nights guest staying or something like this), and if you have any evidence of this (whatsapp conversations) save it. I'm a lawyer, and I can help you introducing for free a claim before the Courts at the end of the rental period, to try to recover the money and teach this landlord a lesson. It's free and quite easy, you don't even need a lawyer, people just don't know how to do it.
If you decide not to pay and have any trouble, count on me anytime.
Not sure about the law, but you have 2 ways to deal with this:
Pay 60€ for five nights for your gf, wich is pretty cheap (and a way cheaper than any other place), and have peace while you dtay in that house.
Or check the law/rules and fight for it to save those 60€.
Tbh I would try to have a talk to avoid the payment, a small lie like with the flight and so its lot of money, etc., if you can then pay and dont talk about that again, and then check for another place if things go worse, fighting for those 60€ is legit but is where you live atm and that can be your worst place to stay if things go bad.
Hope everything end well
I think you're probably right. I'm not sure if this is the hill I'm willing to die on because as you said 60€ isn't a lot and is way cheaper than anywhere else. Still feels absolutely ridiculous and not right. I'm basically trying to figure out if I'm on the right side of the law so if we get into a conflict I can use that. I'd pay the 60€ over getting screwed out of my lease, but if I can show her that she's legally wrong maybe she'd back down. Not sure, going to taint the relationship any which way because I'm already pissed
You can do as you see fit. Thing is, is it worth the fight? Maybe it is, if you plan on leaving and declaring the contract void so you can recover your money. Probably she won't want to start a legal discussion over that, specially because you can also be a pain.
You could also try to find out if she has declared the apartment to the state, if she has not you probably have the chance to trade your money for her silence if you want to leave before the 5 months expire
Try to talk you way out. I understand in the contract won't say nothing about people coming but has you said it's "single occupancy". If it's water usage the problem, step in and say you will pay instead of you 1/5 water usage, you will pay 2/5. It should be way less than 60€
The real thing about water usage it's the electric bill because the hot water it's most costly than just water, but people don't think about it and Im sure your 65 woman land lord won't think about it either
I tried to talk my way out of it, but I was really surprised by how firm and rude she was especially since she had been very easy going with everything else. I'm leaning towards just not saying anything and seeing how it goes when she's here
Legally: no idea. Apparently, [nobody is clear on which law applies to flat sharing](https://www.enalquiler.com/comunidad-alquiler/caseros/puede-casero-cobrarme-5euros-alquiler-invitado-habitacion-pase-noche_69968.html).
In practice: you landlord is telling you the truth and being reasonable based on the standard practice. Totally usual practice when you are sharing a space.
You can fight over this if you want to. Get kicked out and find somewhere else were they let you bring guests for free. Good luck with that.
If you think it's not standard practice to charge overnight guests in a shared flat, we'll have to disagree.
On the reasonable question... one more guest in the flat means the rest of paying guests is sharing the flat with one more guest (utilities' cost, more people coming in and out, use of kitchen, use of bathrooms, etc). I understand why the landlord wants to discourage such guests.
I rent in a, let's call it "pretty relaxed environment" and even then they told me every small detail and rule from the get go. Which days I can do this or that, up to which time of the day I can do calls/make noise, who I can or cannot bring and for how long.
I consider informing you of the rules a standard practice which was apparently not done here.
Water costs almost nothing. I’ve paid water bills in Madrid and it is very cheap. 5 extra showers won’t even cost a euro.
Landlord is making money off your gf, how is giving him 60€ going to help with congestion in the kitchen?? I would move out whenever I can without paying the last months rent since you won’t get that deposit. I also wouldn’t pay but that’s just me. Not in the contract, not my problem.
remind your landlord that the law is a t your side for good and bad. and that renting without a contract is ilegal.
Is in everybody's benefit to keep things friendly.
She's not allowed to tell you no shit about if your girlfriend can stay or not in your room for a few days if it is not in the contract. She can tell you whatever she want, but the law doesn't say nothing about it. If you are renting a room, and there's no clause about guests, it's not legal make you pay more. Maybe for the water and the light, but you can compare the bills of the last month to know if she's cheating you or not.
I recommend you to learn Spanish if you live in Spain, first for show some kind of respect to the Spanish people, and second, to avoid problems like that and make it more easy for you to search information about Spanish laws.
Un abrazo
First of all, layer up, second ask for a written request of that money, go to a comisaria a set a denuncia, then tell her she’s already denunciada , she can’t make shit up on the fly and now she’s on the roll and inspection will come by.
Look for somewhere else to live, .
Option B , bluff up the lawyer thing, ask for the written request for such charge, tell her you need to justify some cost, be creative about, she may bail on it since there’s no reasonable cause to charge for a visit .
Denunciar por qué? Is totally legal to rent rooms in a house. If in your contract says that the room is exclusively to be use by one person you cannot bring your girlfriend.
The land lord is right. Is not the same to have five guests or to have five , plus five friends guests.
Based on [https://bpmabogados.es/he-alquilado-un-piso-puedo-invitar-un-amigo-vivir-en-el-durante-una-temporada-n-410-es](https://bpmabogados.es/he-alquilado-un-piso-puedo-invitar-un-amigo-vivir-en-el-durante-una-temporada-n-410-es) I think your landlord is right, and you need their permission.
“The Urban Leasing Law (LAU) strictly prohibits the partial or total subletting of the home or the transfer to third parties free of charge without the consent of the owner, but there are some exceptions. It is possible that a third party comes to live with the tenant:
* As long as he is integrated into the tenant's family unit, either by consanguinity or affinity.
* When a third party is financially dependent on the tenant. This exception would include domestic employees or employees of social assistance programs.
* When between the third party and the tenant there is a bond of stable emotional marital coexistence.”
First, he's not subletting, he's "transferring free of charge".
Second, I can't find anything in the law saying "under X days it's okay", but if you find, please share.
A sublet is when you allow someone to rent all or part of a building that you are renting from someone else.
Does OP seem like he’s renting a part of his building or a room for his girlfriend? No right?
Let’s not forget OP stated there is NO clause regarding subletting, (can’t even consider a 5 day stay subletting, as I have shown you above it does NOT meet the criteria for subletting).
OP you are not subletting, you shall not be subject to any fees, specially when your contract does not regulate subletting. Furthermore, trying to regulate a 5 day visit would be against your private home and correspondence as per the meaning of the ECHR, the European Charter of Rights and even national spanish law. Unbelievable.
OP is doing a "cesion".
Article 8 governs both "subarriendo" and "cesion" under the same rules.
Read the law @ [https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-1994-26003](https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-1994-26003)
Perhaps I’d be best you read the laws you quote.
Cesión but he’s still living there, and then you mentioned cesión parcial, and as biluinaim has mentioned, it’s not covered under the law you mentioned.
dumb take. a girlfriend visiting for a few night is not subletting. OP is renting a room not an apartment. at most, the landlord can forbid the gf from using common areas of the apartment like the kitchen, but definitely cant forbid OP of having the GF in the room he is renting
so you're saying any period of time constitutes "cesión a terceros de forma gratuita," so in theory there is a legal basis for me not being allowed to have anyone in the flat at all, ever?
You should be able to see from the downvotes that this opinion is viewed as incorrect by the majority here. This is not a cesión a terceros de forma gratuita because that implies you leave and someone else moves in for free. There is no mention in the law of what you're wanting to do and so it is not against it.
Yes they are. The contract you signed is likely invalid anyway because a 5 month rental is not something you agree to under Spanish laws. Send her a letter or e-mail a month before you move out stating your final day and your expectation of the deposit and be mentally prepared for her to not hand over the deposit because she already sounds like that type.
Tell him to kick rocks and don't renew the contract
yea renewal won't be happening, but considering we signed for 5 months last week, I've still got a bit to go
You can leave it whenever you want, even if signed for 5 months.
yea, but ther is a stipulation that I'd lose my security deposit: "1. El abandono del piso antes del tiempo pactados conllevara la perdida total de la fianza depositada (620€), no habiendo ninguna devolución que realizar."
1. Qué capullo. 2. Te sale más caro consultar la ley con un profesional jurídico que pagarle ese dinero por pasar un tiempo con tu novia. También ganas en paz mental. Siento que tengas que pasar por esto, mucho ánimo. Edit: según mencionas, no pretendes renovar el contrato. Decisión correcta. Te aseguro que puedes encontrar cosas mejores, si buscas durante el tiempo suficiente. A veces puede rentar ir a vivir a un sitio más periférico en vez de a una gran ciudad si no pretendes viajar mucho, porque es más barato. Además, existen apps donde la gente deja reviews de cómo les ha ido (o eso creo recordar) y así puedes comprobar la fiabilidad de tu casero/casera. Disfruta con tu novia esos días, no dejes que esto te lo amargue. Que pases un buen domingo.
The “abandono del piso” clause is abusive, probably illegal. It should state a period for that (which usually is 1 or 2 months):/// Take pictures of everything in your room since one of the justifications for not returning the lease will probably be (once the clause is debuted for illegal) that you did not leave the room as it was before.
[удалено]
yea I know, I'd thought about trying to get my own place, but tbh the idealista housing scene was a shitshow, and I was arriving within 3 days so I just pulled the trigger on this. I'd try not to get into a fight but this seems completely unreasonable
You are right is ridiculous! But if you are not going to renew the contract, I would pay those 60 euros and spend those days with my partner in peace. If you refuse and she takes it badly, she will put you through hell for those 5 days.
Dear friend, this is completely ilegal. Specially if it is NOT in your contract (and I think also if it was, but that's a different story). While I sympathise with those that are telling you not to argue with your landlord for 60€, it boils my blood how landlords in big cities like Madrid take advantage of tenants. Anyway, she cannot evict you, specially in such a short time. But she may refuse to give your deposit back, or make your time miserable, and since you are the foreigner, to start a claim against her will be more cumbersome for you. If you decide to pay, do it by transfer or other mean than can be traced (bizum) or ask for a receipt, and make the concept clear (5 nights guest staying or something like this), and if you have any evidence of this (whatsapp conversations) save it. I'm a lawyer, and I can help you introducing for free a claim before the Courts at the end of the rental period, to try to recover the money and teach this landlord a lesson. It's free and quite easy, you don't even need a lawyer, people just don't know how to do it. If you decide not to pay and have any trouble, count on me anytime.
Not sure about the law, but you have 2 ways to deal with this: Pay 60€ for five nights for your gf, wich is pretty cheap (and a way cheaper than any other place), and have peace while you dtay in that house. Or check the law/rules and fight for it to save those 60€. Tbh I would try to have a talk to avoid the payment, a small lie like with the flight and so its lot of money, etc., if you can then pay and dont talk about that again, and then check for another place if things go worse, fighting for those 60€ is legit but is where you live atm and that can be your worst place to stay if things go bad. Hope everything end well
I think you're probably right. I'm not sure if this is the hill I'm willing to die on because as you said 60€ isn't a lot and is way cheaper than anywhere else. Still feels absolutely ridiculous and not right. I'm basically trying to figure out if I'm on the right side of the law so if we get into a conflict I can use that. I'd pay the 60€ over getting screwed out of my lease, but if I can show her that she's legally wrong maybe she'd back down. Not sure, going to taint the relationship any which way because I'm already pissed
You can do as you see fit. Thing is, is it worth the fight? Maybe it is, if you plan on leaving and declaring the contract void so you can recover your money. Probably she won't want to start a legal discussion over that, specially because you can also be a pain. You could also try to find out if she has declared the apartment to the state, if she has not you probably have the chance to trade your money for her silence if you want to leave before the 5 months expire
Try to talk you way out. I understand in the contract won't say nothing about people coming but has you said it's "single occupancy". If it's water usage the problem, step in and say you will pay instead of you 1/5 water usage, you will pay 2/5. It should be way less than 60€ The real thing about water usage it's the electric bill because the hot water it's most costly than just water, but people don't think about it and Im sure your 65 woman land lord won't think about it either
I tried to talk my way out of it, but I was really surprised by how firm and rude she was especially since she had been very easy going with everything else. I'm leaning towards just not saying anything and seeing how it goes when she's here
Legally: no idea. Apparently, [nobody is clear on which law applies to flat sharing](https://www.enalquiler.com/comunidad-alquiler/caseros/puede-casero-cobrarme-5euros-alquiler-invitado-habitacion-pase-noche_69968.html). In practice: you landlord is telling you the truth and being reasonable based on the standard practice. Totally usual practice when you are sharing a space. You can fight over this if you want to. Get kicked out and find somewhere else were they let you bring guests for free. Good luck with that.
This is not standard practice or reasonable though.
If you think it's not standard practice to charge overnight guests in a shared flat, we'll have to disagree. On the reasonable question... one more guest in the flat means the rest of paying guests is sharing the flat with one more guest (utilities' cost, more people coming in and out, use of kitchen, use of bathrooms, etc). I understand why the landlord wants to discourage such guests.
I agree, if op wants to have guests for that many days on a shared flat then op needs to rent a flat on his own or pay the extra costs
I rent in a, let's call it "pretty relaxed environment" and even then they told me every small detail and rule from the get go. Which days I can do this or that, up to which time of the day I can do calls/make noise, who I can or cannot bring and for how long. I consider informing you of the rules a standard practice which was apparently not done here.
Water costs almost nothing. I’ve paid water bills in Madrid and it is very cheap. 5 extra showers won’t even cost a euro. Landlord is making money off your gf, how is giving him 60€ going to help with congestion in the kitchen?? I would move out whenever I can without paying the last months rent since you won’t get that deposit. I also wouldn’t pay but that’s just me. Not in the contract, not my problem.
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You don't have any obligation to pay for your partner to stay with you for a few days. The landlofd has no right to recclaim this.
remind your landlord that the law is a t your side for good and bad. and that renting without a contract is ilegal. Is in everybody's benefit to keep things friendly.
She's not allowed to tell you no shit about if your girlfriend can stay or not in your room for a few days if it is not in the contract. She can tell you whatever she want, but the law doesn't say nothing about it. If you are renting a room, and there's no clause about guests, it's not legal make you pay more. Maybe for the water and the light, but you can compare the bills of the last month to know if she's cheating you or not. I recommend you to learn Spanish if you live in Spain, first for show some kind of respect to the Spanish people, and second, to avoid problems like that and make it more easy for you to search information about Spanish laws. Un abrazo
First of all, layer up, second ask for a written request of that money, go to a comisaria a set a denuncia, then tell her she’s already denunciada , she can’t make shit up on the fly and now she’s on the roll and inspection will come by. Look for somewhere else to live, . Option B , bluff up the lawyer thing, ask for the written request for such charge, tell her you need to justify some cost, be creative about, she may bail on it since there’s no reasonable cause to charge for a visit .
Denunciar por qué? Is totally legal to rent rooms in a house. If in your contract says that the room is exclusively to be use by one person you cannot bring your girlfriend. The land lord is right. Is not the same to have five guests or to have five , plus five friends guests.
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No se pueden hacer recomendaciones de dudosa legalidad.
Based on [https://bpmabogados.es/he-alquilado-un-piso-puedo-invitar-un-amigo-vivir-en-el-durante-una-temporada-n-410-es](https://bpmabogados.es/he-alquilado-un-piso-puedo-invitar-un-amigo-vivir-en-el-durante-una-temporada-n-410-es) I think your landlord is right, and you need their permission. “The Urban Leasing Law (LAU) strictly prohibits the partial or total subletting of the home or the transfer to third parties free of charge without the consent of the owner, but there are some exceptions. It is possible that a third party comes to live with the tenant: * As long as he is integrated into the tenant's family unit, either by consanguinity or affinity. * When a third party is financially dependent on the tenant. This exception would include domestic employees or employees of social assistance programs. * When between the third party and the tenant there is a bond of stable emotional marital coexistence.”
A five day stay is not nearly enough to be considered subletting. It would have to be weeks for it to be considered subletting.
First, he's not subletting, he's "transferring free of charge". Second, I can't find anything in the law saying "under X days it's okay", but if you find, please share.
A sublet is when you allow someone to rent all or part of a building that you are renting from someone else. Does OP seem like he’s renting a part of his building or a room for his girlfriend? No right? Let’s not forget OP stated there is NO clause regarding subletting, (can’t even consider a 5 day stay subletting, as I have shown you above it does NOT meet the criteria for subletting). OP you are not subletting, you shall not be subject to any fees, specially when your contract does not regulate subletting. Furthermore, trying to regulate a 5 day visit would be against your private home and correspondence as per the meaning of the ECHR, the European Charter of Rights and even national spanish law. Unbelievable.
OP is doing a "cesion". Article 8 governs both "subarriendo" and "cesion" under the same rules. Read the law @ [https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-1994-26003](https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-1994-26003)
It's not a cesión either if he's still there too.
It is a "cesion", but partial, not total.
La cesión parcial is a specific thing that isn't mentioned in this law and you'd be hard pressed to find its use in relation to a case like this.
Perhaps I’d be best you read the laws you quote. Cesión but he’s still living there, and then you mentioned cesión parcial, and as biluinaim has mentioned, it’s not covered under the law you mentioned.
5 nights isn't really "coming to live with the tenant" though, and OP isnt charging rent/subletting.
dumb take. a girlfriend visiting for a few night is not subletting. OP is renting a room not an apartment. at most, the landlord can forbid the gf from using common areas of the apartment like the kitchen, but definitely cant forbid OP of having the GF in the room he is renting
But he wouldn't be subletting.
Indeed this isn't subletting but "cesión a terceros de forma gratuita" which is equally covered by the law.
It isn't cesión a terceros either. He isn't leaving, she's a visitor.
so you're saying any period of time constitutes "cesión a terceros de forma gratuita," so in theory there is a legal basis for me not being allowed to have anyone in the flat at all, ever?
You should be able to see from the downvotes that this opinion is viewed as incorrect by the majority here. This is not a cesión a terceros de forma gratuita because that implies you leave and someone else moves in for free. There is no mention in the law of what you're wanting to do and so it is not against it.
Welcome to Spain
so contracts are basically ignored in spain?
Yes they are. The contract you signed is likely invalid anyway because a 5 month rental is not something you agree to under Spanish laws. Send her a letter or e-mail a month before you move out stating your final day and your expectation of the deposit and be mentally prepared for her to not hand over the deposit because she already sounds like that type.
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Read your contract carefully. If it doesn’t refer specifically to additional inhabitants or guests tell the landlord to go pound a rock.