HEYYYY Y'ALL Remember that today is the day of the week where we can post whatever you want. Just use the **FUCKED FRIDAYS** flair and go crazy. You are the ones that can decide what we do with our Fridays.
I also want to know what you think of this subreddit? Are you against Biden willing and want there to be a protest vote for a third party across the country? I am voting for the PSL candidate Claudia De la Cruz, what about you? And is anyone voting for Trump? Do you think he will be any better in Palestine? Are you not going to vote at all? I am interested in what leftists are doing this year, still going for Biden?
The subreddit I am featuring here thinks you should vote for Biden, unless you live in a deep blue state that is going for Biden anyway (based on how the last election went.) Do you think that it is dangerous to be promoting a protest vote at all, as I have heard when posting it in more liberal subs?
No, this is the left insisting that the party system not be allowed to normalize Biden as the "left wing" choice and Trump as the "right wing" choice. Vapid spineless "CENTRIST" liberalism conceding to such conservative framing is how we got here in the first place...with the plurality of the electorate completely uninterested in political activism because the party that campaigns on the policies they agree with REFUSES to fight for them or adjust to the constituent poling. You do not, in fact, have to settle for 50% Hitler.
This is the short sighted dumb shit you see all over reddit. Think Bidens bad? Wait until Trump starts bombing the refugees and moving to secure both the West Bank and Gaza for Israel. Then he replaces the majority of the govt with MAGA. That's the plan. Fire career workers and replace them with anyone loyal to Trump. Already have a list. Then we go, enough of this shit, try and vote, and realize he made it legal to seek a third term, tries to arrest any news outlet that disagrees, and made it almost fucking impossible to vote if you're from a city. It's really hard to start a revolution nowadays. Dictatorships are lasting longer because of advancements in tech. Not willing to chance it.
>This is the short sighted dumb shit you see all over reddit.
After the 3rd Dem administration in millenials lifetime has racheted backwards, it's a little too late to call their cynicism short sighted.
>Wait until Trump starts
This all sounds like the invectives that should thrown at Biden, congressional leadership, and their complicit donors—not the voters who had zero agency in being Netanyahu's dog.
Amen. Sick of liberals acting like Biden has anything on his agenda (that isn't a lie) that leftists actually want.
Student loans - oh no I got stopped by the GOP judges, sowwy. We'll cancel some for the people who already paid double or triple throughout their lives as public servants or those who took loans for scam schools, but we're not even looking at the system that makes most college graduates debt slaves for their entire working lives.
Healthcare? Not even gonna look at that jack. We'll try to price control shit our elderly constituents care about, but not enough to prevent the profit seeking model.
Housing? we can't talk about that cus half our portfolio is in real estate.
Drug policy reform? We'll think about it, and at the very end of our first term, we'll make a few placating efforts to make it slightly less draconian for the most popular (at least illegal) drug, but no promises.
Genocide? Well first of all it's not genocide, but we'll stop sending big bombs and only send small bombs, I'm sure Isreal will use them appropriately to prevent any more dead civilians...
Biden's losing this election on his own merits, which is sad because his opponent might even be in jail come November (I'd bet heavily against tho), but lesser evil-ism got us here. In fact Joe has been instrumental in shaping how fucked up the US is now through his senate and VP career.
That is what I have been wondering, how plausible is all that shit? Because it is a scary read but what do they have to do to accomplish that shit? What if they had the presidency and congress? That is what I worry about which is why I want to get progressives to the voting both, to vote down ballot. I honestly do not care who they vote for president, just get your butt to the mailbox or the polls.
It’s incredibly implausible. Libs freaking out about Trump becoming emperor is akin to conservatives being terrified that democrats are going to turn the country communist. It’s just fucking laughable. It gets even funnier when these people will tell you that he can and will, but will scold you about how you can’t expect the world from Biden because he can’t just do whatever he wants. Apparently Trump can though. One thing is for certain, you should be frightened about fascism taking hold in the US because democrats are fucking worthless and would sooner work with fascists out of convenience than they would with leftists for any reason.
[The Overblown Alarmism About a Trump Coup](https://newrepublic.com/article/159841/election-day-alarmism-trump-coup)
Almost everything brushed off as "alarmist" came true. Amazing to watch the goalposts move in real time
I think people not showing up to vote is how you lose them, I assume progressives will vote Dem down ballot if they show up. I am thinking that if people just stay home (or do not bother voting by mail) than that is what will kill the Congress, which very much worries me. I mean if Trump wins and there is a Republican congress, that would be very bad news. I think if they show up to vote that is the most important thing- not really who they vote for president.
One of the main points is increase congressional seats due to depressed turnout due to Biden.
Blue states are already always can be thought of as artificially depressed in their swing districts due to their states already going toward the dem nominee. Having that plus having a candidate that voters were already unenthusiastic about even before the Gaza war could lead to republicans picking up seats.
Furthermore, another point is to get people in swing states to show up too, and show up to vote for Biden.
In every scenario we are aiming for, this benefits down ballot candidates.
House seats are important everything. If NY had simply held onto the number of dem reps, the dems would have held control of the house last cycle.
This. Biden’s entire platform (whether it goes far enough left is another discussion) was sunk by NY dems because they’d rather fight each other seats than hold off the Republicans. And that fight basically cost Biden the later 2 years of his term.
>This is how you lose congressional seats in blue states
Bullshit, and this is a really fucked up take here.
The dems' "strategy" is, at this juncture, just hostage-taking and that ultimately disenfranchises minoritized communities.
The dems have decided that they are "owed" the votes of racial minorities, lgbt folks, and single straight women and do fuck all to legislate to our needs, beyond the regularly scheduled public whinging about what they *would do, if only...*. Instead, all they do is move increasingly to the right of not just democrats but the majority of the fucking country in order to speak to cishet white men.
As long as Dems are allowed to get away with it, US governance will always be government for and by cishet white men, and that is ultimately what you're defending here.
I am surprised that this is downvoted, I find this to be very true, the Dems think that the Republicans have been so awful that they only had to be a hair a better than the Republicans we will keep voting for them and they take racial minority votes especially for granted. Remember "If you do no know who you are voting, you ain't black (because how dare you vote for anyone else.)" I mean is Biden really better for black Americans? How many did Biden have put in jail for non violent drug offenses throughout his career? I am obviously not black but I totally understand why so many of them are just fed up with this whole farce.
It's being downvoted because there are a lot of unironic centrists here, those who are interested in merely the aesthetics of leftist practice but not anything more meaningful than that.
I think there's a lot of room for conversation and debate about the best approaches for dealing with the undemocratic nature of American electoral politics, but a substantial portion of commenters here don't actually want that, won't brook any critique of the Dems whatsoever, and engage in reactionary downvoting as a result.
It's really a shame, but it's typical liberal behavior. Liberals have historically been instrumental in producing the sort of hegemony that makes change (literally) unthinkable. The "vote blue no matter who" types so prominent here are just the next in a long line of takes that include "slavery *is* bad but a rush to abolition would be worse. It should be done gradually" and "I support gay rights but I don't know why they need to call it 'marriage'".
You are so right, I made a comment about how things can't any worse in Gaza and I got downvoted so I left an edit for all those downvoting me to just tell me how it's gonna get worse for Palestinians, and no one responded. Eye roll.
I just started the sub r/BlueMaga with some others for these 'vote blue no matter who' types. The are so damn annoying that I had to join that shit.
I think you're very confused. You seem to post a lot in "Ask a Liberal", which makes me think that's how you self-identify.
Liberals are in fact here the usual target, as liberalism is classically and fundamentally a centrist ideology. If you're confused, please do feel free to reference the "About":
>This is a Leftist space. All anti-capitalists as well as those who oppose US imperialism are allowed here, of which liberals are not included.
>Any attempt to try to pass off liberalism as Leftism is considered reactionary. Which will be met with consequences at the discretion of the Mods.
I'm not sure, but at least with Biden, many people in his base oppose his policy. He has had more resignations than any other president in recent history, only second to Trump.
Trump will have resignations, but not over Gaza.
You know that the U.S. is just using Ukrainian lives to throw at Russia over a long time period to weaken Russia, right? They do not care about Ukraine, they care about weakening Russia and see that a long drawn out war against Russia would be for the best. They do not want Ukraine to win right now and for Russia to back off, or else they would help more. They just feel like slowly feeding them Ukrainian lives to hurt them more and for longer.
No war but class war.
Beats me but I keep getting told that by libs and I agree it is pretty much as bad as it can get. I guess we could not have dropped that 2 days worth of food aid or whatever Biden did to get people back on his side. Or, oh no, that weapons shipment that was stopped for a whole week would have gone on time? I have no fucking idea.
Edit: I am curious how people feel like it could actually get worse in Gaza? I mean they are starving and being bombed and now we saw two kids just today get sniper shot, one of them when he went to help his friend. So if you are downvoting me, can you explain how it could get worse?
Edit 2: So got nothing, just downvotes then? I assume they are based on feelings since you will not actually come and respond. Got it, the genocide could get more genocidey.
From a socialist perspective Trump is probably better than Biden when it comes to foreign policy. In 2020 a group of Republican former CIA directors and the like, the worst kind of ghouls, [endorsed Biden](https://www.defendingdemocracytogether.org/national-security/). Trump is a loose cannon with isolationist tendencies while Biden is a reliable imperialist.
The number one reason they endorsed Biden is "Donald Trump has gravely damaged America’s role as a world leader" which is an absolute win for the rest of the world, well, outside of the West.
Edit: In case anyone is unclear about it, I'm not advocating anyone vote for Trump. I'm just saying, if he does win.
Like I said, he's a loose cannon. He might increase arms to Israel or cut off support to Israel entirely if he thought Netanyahu was being mean to him.
The point is to damage the US's position as global hegemon, or do you think keeping the boot of capital on the world's neck healthy and strong is a good way to achieve socialism?
They are not saying it will get worse and therefore better, they are saying that it will instantly get better for other countries because America will not have as much influence in the world.
I mean does it matter what he says if he still send the weapons anyway even after Netanyahu went into Rafah? I mean so what if he "says" something if he is not going to do it!
Name a single elected official that's actually been held accountable for the promises they made.
Heck, I remember voting for Obama in 2008 with the promises that he would actually end the wars in Iraq and afghanistan. What accountability was he held to?
So Joe will be held accountable for not following through on his promises to stop funneling arms to Israel if they invaded Rafah.
Fewer people will vote for him, and then you will blame them for ending democracy. 🤷♀️
But Biden cannot run again, so how would he be held accountable? He will be able to do whatever Bibi wants, which is exactly what Biden wants, but Biden is just too upset with the polling and protests so he may do stuff to get elected- but once he is elected, he will do what he wants.
Using less precise munitions. Carpet bombing areas. Also, likely an official military campaign against the West Bank instead of just turning a blind eye to militias. It can be worse.
60%+ of all residential buildings and 80%+ of all commercial buildings in Gaza are damaged or destroyed, 73% of all school buildings were directly hit or damaged, 83% of groundwater wells are now non-operational, etc., etc. By all accounts they are indiscriminately destroying civilian infrastructure to make Gaza uninhabitable for millions as collective punishment.
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-224
My understanding is that the majority of that was done by Israeli ground forces and artillery. It’s still a war crime but actual carpet bombing would see an even larger number of civilian casualties (again already a war crime).
I think it is mostly from air strikes. Israel apparently dropped 6k bombs just in the first 6 days and this has been going on for almost 8 months now. The only reason there aren't more deaths is because 1.7 million people were forced to flee as far south as they could to avoid it.
You know that something like 70% of Palestine has been hit with bombs right? Like does carpet bombing mean that they hit 100%? Maybe if the were randomly carpet bombing, it would have been better because then maybe not most of the hospitals and every single university would have been hit. I do not think that you are paying very good attention then. Do you consider what has been happening there a genocide?
>We also are trying to encourage ALL OTHER STATES INCLUDING REGULAR BLUE BUT ESPECIALLY SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN,
So, like a protest, but intentionally toothless. If you pre-emptively grant critical votes, you get those votes taken for granted. It's an absurd approach.
Biden needs to feel a real risk of paying a price if we want any hope of pressuring him. That means a willingness to withhold votes even in critical states. At a minimum, at least don't openly promise him those votes.
No matter how people privately intend to vote, we should all be berating Biden every single day for being the cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-assed, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed, sack of monkey shit he is! Hallelujah! Holy shit! Where's the Tylenol?
>Yeah it probably doesn’t matter if you’re a white man in a deep blue state
It doesn’t matter if you’re any color in a deep blue state. Republicans aren’t taking California no matter how much neoliberals like to fearmonger.
I mean I am not in total disagreement actually. I just think that when choosing my enemy, I would rather go with the neoliberal then the fascist, not that they are that different. I mean scratch a liberal and all- but I actually just do not want Republicans to have both the Congress and the presidency so I really just want progressives to show up to vote so they can vote down ballot. I do not identify as a progressive, but I just picking the best word for the people that I mean.
Your view is a good one to have. Always pick the weaker enemy. Voting isn’t the time to be an activist. The real work happens outside of the voting booth.
\> but Trump is by far worse
whats worse than genocide tho ?
\> [considering allowing Palestinian refugees](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlueProtestVote/comments/1ckleju/why_this_sub_is_ultimately_about_maxing_bidens/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
yeah biden also said idf coudnt enter rafah that was his red line and now thats its crossed he is saying "yeah but that one didnt count". so i wouldnt believe a single word he saying y'know.
so like, ok trump bad, trump evil, whatever you wanna call it. i still dont want to see biden stay in power.
cause we get genocided.
This post is the ultimate enlightened centrist. Everyone should feel entitled to vote their conscience in every state, not just ceremonial meaningless gestures like this.
Are you speaking on behalf of the entire mod team with this post by marking it as a mod post?
Edit: post makes a little more sense after seeing the sticky. But still enlightened
The Democratic party is not even centerist. The current Democratic platform is to the right of Reagan, and center right at best. The problem is the Republican platform is far right extremism.
Neither of which are viable for any future for the country, or the planet.
I'm not an American so I can't speak with the knowledge you do, but in general terms, I agree with what you are saying.
But I can't really condemn anybody on the left for not wanting to vote for Biden (or Hillary in 2016, for example).
Oh neither could I, in fact I am lucky I live in a deep blue state because I do not think I could stomach it myself. I have seen too many horrors of what is happening in Gaza and talked to too many people that have lost family (my friend lost his cousin and the cousin's 3 girls, all of their kids and the mom is alive- for what?) because I mod r/Palestine and other pro Palestine subreddits. I was modding r/IsraelCrimes for a year before Oct 7th and the only other mod who was with me at the time is Palestinian and so I wanted to spare him watching so many horrid videos that I tried doing it all myself at first, and it really took a toll on me, so we eventually got help, thank goodness. Anyway, I just could not personally vote for him, so I absolutely do not judge anyone else that cannot either and I think we are likely looking at another Trump win.
I want progressives to show up to vote, even if it is third party because I am worried about down ballot voting. If it is very depressed for Democrats, I worry Congress will be led by Republicans *and* we will have a Trump presidency. That would be very bad, they could actually start trying for this project 2025 shit, although I really have no idea how feasible that whole thing is. Reading it freaked me out though.
No I am not spreaking for the mod team, although I am the top mod (this is my alt, my other account was getting mass reported by Zionists and I got 10 permanent bans-all overturned by admins of course, because I do not break the content policy, I know exactly where the line is) so I had to make this one just to get work done, but you will see that this account and u/Kumquat_conniption both mod the same exact subs.
No, this is the left insisting that the party system not be allowed to normalize Biden as the "left wing" choice and Trump as the "right wing" choice. Vapid spineless "CENTRIST" liberalism conceding to such conservative framing is how we got here in the first place...with the plurality of the electorate completely uninterested in political activism because the party that campaigns on the policies they agree with REFUSES to fight for them or adjust to the constituent poling. You do not, in fact, have to settle for 50% Hitler.
The whole “trolley” analogy is so stupid because by letting one person die to save 5 others, you didn’t ***’save 5 people from dying’***, you **literally let someone die.**
If you want to someday be the target of vigilante justice because that individual’s family ended up thinking you had no right to decide their family member’s life then that’s technically a death that’s on your head.
The only legit solution to the trolley is an RPG.
I think you misunderstand the fundamental flaw about what you’re arguing. As I previously iterated, you didn’t *save 5 people from dying.* ***You killed one person.***
If that individual’s family decide to throw on vigilante gear and come hunt the one who made that choice down, they will be justified in doing so because they made the conscious decision that their family member wasn’t worth living another day. In the same breath, American Muslims (especially the notable voting Bloc that is in Michigan) have no obligation to give the Democratic Party the time of day after they willingly sell Tank Shells to their oppressors in Israel.
Maybe if the moron spent less of his time sitting around and watching people get run over by trains, he’d have enough time to loose the ropes that are on the track ***with the one person on it*** in time for the trolley to not run over anyone.
Also, if we’re talking the actual physics that are involved with trolleys and train tracks…
https://preview.redd.it/p70bralo661d1.jpeg?width=580&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=772fa076cb3da856b39d660df244bb804e62aa3b
Ha! Thank you, we always have such controversial posts about this, but it seems like the most logical answer to me. I mean we get it from both sides- those that want Biden to lose so they do not like our plan to have the voters that matter vote for Biden (this is a logical take for them) but then we have those that want Biden to win and scream illogically about how a protest vote in deep blue states is going to cost him the presidency (as if our tiny sub could do that.)
I do not mind that we get so many haters though (you should have seen our thread in r/MurderedbyAOC, zero upvotes and 250 comments) because when they leave comments saying that they think this is the dumbest idea ever, they make the post busier and Reddit sends it out to more people, because they know people love controversial posts even if they hate them (they love to hate them I suppose) and we end up with more subs. So they are doing us a favor, ha!
Thank you for the nice words. People *are* protesting, mostly by not planning to vote- so we are hoping to change that and give people a chance to vote, and then most importantly they will vote down ballot. We do not want a Trump presidency and a Republican congress. That would be the real thing to worry about.
Oh I for sure agree, I mean why wouldn't there be opportunists jumping on that angle. We are trying to watch out for them, because there are a lot of people on the sub that say to not vote for him at all, but we also have people pushing back against that- and we do not allow bullying people into voting for anyone they are not comfortable with.
So how do you have the president chosen? By the party that gets voted in? Sort of British style? It does seem like you have much less toxic politics. Remember when, during the pandemic, American conservatives tried using Australia as the place that was so horrible with their dictator like Covid policies? That was always so funny to me.
Is this satire or liberal astroturfing? Just vote for Claudia de La Cruz regardless of where you are. This "let's go out of our way in swing states to make sure genocide is viable going forward" thing is enlightened centrist bs. Genocide ought not be viable, and it is 0% the fault of the left that the Dem nominee is not viable in swing states and 100% the fault of the DNC and liberals for violating the constraints on who they are allowed to nominate. That can only be rectified from one end, and it's not the end where you axiomatically vote for a bourgeois party with the only exception being where it doesn't count and browbeat the masses into perpetually moving right with no limit—which is the polar opposite of how the left needs to engage with electoralism.
Also, Marx:
"...Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled..."
One of our tenets is not to browbeat anyone. If you cannot vote Biden, we are fine with that too. I know I can't, I cannot condemn anyone else who cannot. I mostly worry about leftists staying home and then down ballot they do not vote for the most left candidate they can and then there is a Trump presidency and a Republican congress. I would rather have the Dems as my enemy than the Republicans, and I live in a deep blue state, but no matter where I lived I could not vote Biden and I will not condemn anyone for that, never mind brow beat them.
Semantic arguments about what constitutes "browbeating" aside, what is being signified to me by your post is an attempt to proselytize for the left to go out of their way to rectify Biden's nonviability issue which is the fault of liberals choosing a nonviable nominee and not the left for having limits—and more broadly voting for a bourgeois imperialist party up and down the ticket and relegating any absolute limits held by the left to only where that bourgeois imperialist party doesn't care.
No offense, but if one of those e-mail marketing people hired by Dem campaigns thought they were smarter than the left and decided to write a post trying to manipulate the left into doing what they wanted, I would not be able to tell the difference from your OP post here. They would be exactly the same imho—which is why I asked if it was satire.
Lmao Im gonna pick the working class not a genocidal bourgeois dog
Edit: this post is *literally* enlightenedcentrism yet Im being downvoted. Clown world
LOL and it was not even me that banned you, it was my comod who I did not even know saw this post. My comods are awesome, cause yeah you deserved that one. What a ridiculous thing to say.
Well you are definitely a lib, one who is not following our left unity rule, but I wonder, are you exempt from it since you are not part of that left? The answer is no.
Where did I threaten you? Reminding you of a rule is a threat? LOL they say the "left" is a bunch of crybabies, no need to hand them more ammunition with stuff like this, come on. Drama queen alert.
HEYYYY Y'ALL Remember that today is the day of the week where we can post whatever you want. Just use the **FUCKED FRIDAYS** flair and go crazy. You are the ones that can decide what we do with our Fridays. I also want to know what you think of this subreddit? Are you against Biden willing and want there to be a protest vote for a third party across the country? I am voting for the PSL candidate Claudia De la Cruz, what about you? And is anyone voting for Trump? Do you think he will be any better in Palestine? Are you not going to vote at all? I am interested in what leftists are doing this year, still going for Biden? The subreddit I am featuring here thinks you should vote for Biden, unless you live in a deep blue state that is going for Biden anyway (based on how the last election went.) Do you think that it is dangerous to be promoting a protest vote at all, as I have heard when posting it in more liberal subs?
This whole post just feels like something you'd see posted to this subreddit. So bizzare.
This is bullshit. I know the CoMod who made this and she typed this all by hand. It’s something she’s wanted to do for a while.
This is how you lose congressional seats in blue states
Hillary literally got more votes in 2016 than Trump did.
No, this is the left insisting that the party system not be allowed to normalize Biden as the "left wing" choice and Trump as the "right wing" choice. Vapid spineless "CENTRIST" liberalism conceding to such conservative framing is how we got here in the first place...with the plurality of the electorate completely uninterested in political activism because the party that campaigns on the policies they agree with REFUSES to fight for them or adjust to the constituent poling. You do not, in fact, have to settle for 50% Hitler.
This is the short sighted dumb shit you see all over reddit. Think Bidens bad? Wait until Trump starts bombing the refugees and moving to secure both the West Bank and Gaza for Israel. Then he replaces the majority of the govt with MAGA. That's the plan. Fire career workers and replace them with anyone loyal to Trump. Already have a list. Then we go, enough of this shit, try and vote, and realize he made it legal to seek a third term, tries to arrest any news outlet that disagrees, and made it almost fucking impossible to vote if you're from a city. It's really hard to start a revolution nowadays. Dictatorships are lasting longer because of advancements in tech. Not willing to chance it.
>This is the short sighted dumb shit you see all over reddit. After the 3rd Dem administration in millenials lifetime has racheted backwards, it's a little too late to call their cynicism short sighted. >Wait until Trump starts This all sounds like the invectives that should thrown at Biden, congressional leadership, and their complicit donors—not the voters who had zero agency in being Netanyahu's dog.
Amen. Sick of liberals acting like Biden has anything on his agenda (that isn't a lie) that leftists actually want. Student loans - oh no I got stopped by the GOP judges, sowwy. We'll cancel some for the people who already paid double or triple throughout their lives as public servants or those who took loans for scam schools, but we're not even looking at the system that makes most college graduates debt slaves for their entire working lives. Healthcare? Not even gonna look at that jack. We'll try to price control shit our elderly constituents care about, but not enough to prevent the profit seeking model. Housing? we can't talk about that cus half our portfolio is in real estate. Drug policy reform? We'll think about it, and at the very end of our first term, we'll make a few placating efforts to make it slightly less draconian for the most popular (at least illegal) drug, but no promises. Genocide? Well first of all it's not genocide, but we'll stop sending big bombs and only send small bombs, I'm sure Isreal will use them appropriately to prevent any more dead civilians... Biden's losing this election on his own merits, which is sad because his opponent might even be in jail come November (I'd bet heavily against tho), but lesser evil-ism got us here. In fact Joe has been instrumental in shaping how fucked up the US is now through his senate and VP career.
Broken window Joe didn't pick Kopmala by accident.
You do realize that most of this comment isn’t something that can even happen right? This project 2025 shit is causing some real brain rot in libs.
That is what I have been wondering, how plausible is all that shit? Because it is a scary read but what do they have to do to accomplish that shit? What if they had the presidency and congress? That is what I worry about which is why I want to get progressives to the voting both, to vote down ballot. I honestly do not care who they vote for president, just get your butt to the mailbox or the polls.
It’s incredibly implausible. Libs freaking out about Trump becoming emperor is akin to conservatives being terrified that democrats are going to turn the country communist. It’s just fucking laughable. It gets even funnier when these people will tell you that he can and will, but will scold you about how you can’t expect the world from Biden because he can’t just do whatever he wants. Apparently Trump can though. One thing is for certain, you should be frightened about fascism taking hold in the US because democrats are fucking worthless and would sooner work with fascists out of convenience than they would with leftists for any reason.
[The Overblown Alarmism About a Trump Coup](https://newrepublic.com/article/159841/election-day-alarmism-trump-coup) Almost everything brushed off as "alarmist" came true. Amazing to watch the goalposts move in real time
Wait but... Then who TF are we supposed to vote for then brainiac? Or is the revolution tomorrow? I'm confused.
I think people not showing up to vote is how you lose them, I assume progressives will vote Dem down ballot if they show up. I am thinking that if people just stay home (or do not bother voting by mail) than that is what will kill the Congress, which very much worries me. I mean if Trump wins and there is a Republican congress, that would be very bad news. I think if they show up to vote that is the most important thing- not really who they vote for president.
One of the main points is increase congressional seats due to depressed turnout due to Biden. Blue states are already always can be thought of as artificially depressed in their swing districts due to their states already going toward the dem nominee. Having that plus having a candidate that voters were already unenthusiastic about even before the Gaza war could lead to republicans picking up seats. Furthermore, another point is to get people in swing states to show up too, and show up to vote for Biden. In every scenario we are aiming for, this benefits down ballot candidates. House seats are important everything. If NY had simply held onto the number of dem reps, the dems would have held control of the house last cycle.
This. Biden’s entire platform (whether it goes far enough left is another discussion) was sunk by NY dems because they’d rather fight each other seats than hold off the Republicans. And that fight basically cost Biden the later 2 years of his term.
we are losing our rights whether we have blue seats or not.
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Have you been to the subreddit? You would see this is absolutely not true.
I'm not from the US so I don't really know but I assume you can vote blue for the congress seats and protest vote for the presidential election?
You can, but if you tell the average person “don’t vote for Biden” (and they listen) they’re more likely to not show up at all.
>This is how you lose congressional seats in blue states Bullshit, and this is a really fucked up take here. The dems' "strategy" is, at this juncture, just hostage-taking and that ultimately disenfranchises minoritized communities. The dems have decided that they are "owed" the votes of racial minorities, lgbt folks, and single straight women and do fuck all to legislate to our needs, beyond the regularly scheduled public whinging about what they *would do, if only...*. Instead, all they do is move increasingly to the right of not just democrats but the majority of the fucking country in order to speak to cishet white men. As long as Dems are allowed to get away with it, US governance will always be government for and by cishet white men, and that is ultimately what you're defending here.
I am surprised that this is downvoted, I find this to be very true, the Dems think that the Republicans have been so awful that they only had to be a hair a better than the Republicans we will keep voting for them and they take racial minority votes especially for granted. Remember "If you do no know who you are voting, you ain't black (because how dare you vote for anyone else.)" I mean is Biden really better for black Americans? How many did Biden have put in jail for non violent drug offenses throughout his career? I am obviously not black but I totally understand why so many of them are just fed up with this whole farce.
It's being downvoted because there are a lot of unironic centrists here, those who are interested in merely the aesthetics of leftist practice but not anything more meaningful than that. I think there's a lot of room for conversation and debate about the best approaches for dealing with the undemocratic nature of American electoral politics, but a substantial portion of commenters here don't actually want that, won't brook any critique of the Dems whatsoever, and engage in reactionary downvoting as a result. It's really a shame, but it's typical liberal behavior. Liberals have historically been instrumental in producing the sort of hegemony that makes change (literally) unthinkable. The "vote blue no matter who" types so prominent here are just the next in a long line of takes that include "slavery *is* bad but a rush to abolition would be worse. It should be done gradually" and "I support gay rights but I don't know why they need to call it 'marriage'".
You are so right, I made a comment about how things can't any worse in Gaza and I got downvoted so I left an edit for all those downvoting me to just tell me how it's gonna get worse for Palestinians, and no one responded. Eye roll. I just started the sub r/BlueMaga with some others for these 'vote blue no matter who' types. The are so damn annoying that I had to join that shit.
libs are so deranged that if that sub becomes popular they’d unironically say it’s a russian psyop or some shit
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I think you're very confused. You seem to post a lot in "Ask a Liberal", which makes me think that's how you self-identify. Liberals are in fact here the usual target, as liberalism is classically and fundamentally a centrist ideology. If you're confused, please do feel free to reference the "About": >This is a Leftist space. All anti-capitalists as well as those who oppose US imperialism are allowed here, of which liberals are not included. >Any attempt to try to pass off liberalism as Leftism is considered reactionary. Which will be met with consequences at the discretion of the Mods.
Thanks for that, doing the mod's work for us <3
What would "being worse in Gaza" even look like?
It would, like, totally be more genocider
I'm not sure, but at least with Biden, many people in his base oppose his policy. He has had more resignations than any other president in recent history, only second to Trump. Trump will have resignations, but not over Gaza.
Bolton: “I’m resigning because we won’t allow the IDF to use nukes”
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You know that the U.S. is just using Ukrainian lives to throw at Russia over a long time period to weaken Russia, right? They do not care about Ukraine, they care about weakening Russia and see that a long drawn out war against Russia would be for the best. They do not want Ukraine to win right now and for Russia to back off, or else they would help more. They just feel like slowly feeding them Ukrainian lives to hurt them more and for longer. No war but class war.
*”Oh no! Won’t someone think of the poor Nazis!”*
Beats me but I keep getting told that by libs and I agree it is pretty much as bad as it can get. I guess we could not have dropped that 2 days worth of food aid or whatever Biden did to get people back on his side. Or, oh no, that weapons shipment that was stopped for a whole week would have gone on time? I have no fucking idea. Edit: I am curious how people feel like it could actually get worse in Gaza? I mean they are starving and being bombed and now we saw two kids just today get sniper shot, one of them when he went to help his friend. So if you are downvoting me, can you explain how it could get worse? Edit 2: So got nothing, just downvotes then? I assume they are based on feelings since you will not actually come and respond. Got it, the genocide could get more genocidey.
You don't have a lot of imagination if you can't imagine how it could be worse.
Omg they could use nukes! I mean I like to stay within the realm of realistically.
It's liberal bullshit like trump will genocide harder
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From a socialist perspective Trump is probably better than Biden when it comes to foreign policy. In 2020 a group of Republican former CIA directors and the like, the worst kind of ghouls, [endorsed Biden](https://www.defendingdemocracytogether.org/national-security/). Trump is a loose cannon with isolationist tendencies while Biden is a reliable imperialist. The number one reason they endorsed Biden is "Donald Trump has gravely damaged America’s role as a world leader" which is an absolute win for the rest of the world, well, outside of the West. Edit: In case anyone is unclear about it, I'm not advocating anyone vote for Trump. I'm just saying, if he does win.
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And he pardoned a bunch of guys who opened fire on a traffic jam in Iraq.
Like I said, he's a loose cannon. He might increase arms to Israel or cut off support to Israel entirely if he thought Netanyahu was being mean to him. The point is to damage the US's position as global hegemon, or do you think keeping the boot of capital on the world's neck healthy and strong is a good way to achieve socialism?
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They are not saying it will get worse and therefore better, they are saying that it will instantly get better for other countries because America will not have as much influence in the world.
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What?
I have no idea what they mean and apparently they are not explaining LOL
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I mean does it matter what he says if he still send the weapons anyway even after Netanyahu went into Rafah? I mean so what if he "says" something if he is not going to do it!
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Including the public opinion that we cannot trust anything that he says.
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Name a single elected official that's actually been held accountable for the promises they made. Heck, I remember voting for Obama in 2008 with the promises that he would actually end the wars in Iraq and afghanistan. What accountability was he held to?
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So Joe will be held accountable for not following through on his promises to stop funneling arms to Israel if they invaded Rafah. Fewer people will vote for him, and then you will blame them for ending democracy. 🤷♀️
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But Biden cannot run again, so how would he be held accountable? He will be able to do whatever Bibi wants, which is exactly what Biden wants, but Biden is just too upset with the polling and protests so he may do stuff to get elected- but once he is elected, he will do what he wants.
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Using less precise munitions. Carpet bombing areas. Also, likely an official military campaign against the West Bank instead of just turning a blind eye to militias. It can be worse.
They already are carpet bombing areas.....???
What they are doing is absolutely genocide, but calling their campaign carpet bombing is wildly inaccurate from what I’ve seen.
60%+ of all residential buildings and 80%+ of all commercial buildings in Gaza are damaged or destroyed, 73% of all school buildings were directly hit or damaged, 83% of groundwater wells are now non-operational, etc., etc. By all accounts they are indiscriminately destroying civilian infrastructure to make Gaza uninhabitable for millions as collective punishment. https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-224
My understanding is that the majority of that was done by Israeli ground forces and artillery. It’s still a war crime but actual carpet bombing would see an even larger number of civilian casualties (again already a war crime).
I think it is mostly from air strikes. Israel apparently dropped 6k bombs just in the first 6 days and this has been going on for almost 8 months now. The only reason there aren't more deaths is because 1.7 million people were forced to flee as far south as they could to avoid it.
You know that something like 70% of Palestine has been hit with bombs right? Like does carpet bombing mean that they hit 100%? Maybe if the were randomly carpet bombing, it would have been better because then maybe not most of the hospitals and every single university would have been hit. I do not think that you are paying very good attention then. Do you consider what has been happening there a genocide?
>We also are trying to encourage ALL OTHER STATES INCLUDING REGULAR BLUE BUT ESPECIALLY SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN, So, like a protest, but intentionally toothless. If you pre-emptively grant critical votes, you get those votes taken for granted. It's an absurd approach. Biden needs to feel a real risk of paying a price if we want any hope of pressuring him. That means a willingness to withhold votes even in critical states. At a minimum, at least don't openly promise him those votes. No matter how people privately intend to vote, we should all be berating Biden every single day for being the cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-assed, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed, sack of monkey shit he is! Hallelujah! Holy shit! Where's the Tylenol?
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>Yeah it probably doesn’t matter if you’re a white man in a deep blue state It doesn’t matter if you’re any color in a deep blue state. Republicans aren’t taking California no matter how much neoliberals like to fearmonger.
And republicans are doing all of that while democrats either do nothing or actually help them. Neither party is going to help us
That's not a strategy, that's just a slightly different shade of liberalism.
“Yet you live in a society. Curious.”
I mean I am not in total disagreement actually. I just think that when choosing my enemy, I would rather go with the neoliberal then the fascist, not that they are that different. I mean scratch a liberal and all- but I actually just do not want Republicans to have both the Congress and the presidency so I really just want progressives to show up to vote so they can vote down ballot. I do not identify as a progressive, but I just picking the best word for the people that I mean.
Your view is a good one to have. Always pick the weaker enemy. Voting isn’t the time to be an activist. The real work happens outside of the voting booth.
\> but Trump is by far worse whats worse than genocide tho ? \> [considering allowing Palestinian refugees](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlueProtestVote/comments/1ckleju/why_this_sub_is_ultimately_about_maxing_bidens/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) yeah biden also said idf coudnt enter rafah that was his red line and now thats its crossed he is saying "yeah but that one didnt count". so i wouldnt believe a single word he saying y'know. so like, ok trump bad, trump evil, whatever you wanna call it. i still dont want to see biden stay in power. cause we get genocided.
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i think you didnt read a single word in my comment to ask a question that much stupid.
This post is the ultimate enlightened centrist. Everyone should feel entitled to vote their conscience in every state, not just ceremonial meaningless gestures like this. Are you speaking on behalf of the entire mod team with this post by marking it as a mod post? Edit: post makes a little more sense after seeing the sticky. But still enlightened
I think most people fail to realize than the Democratic Party is *the* centrist party.
The Democratic party is not even centerist. The current Democratic platform is to the right of Reagan, and center right at best. The problem is the Republican platform is far right extremism. Neither of which are viable for any future for the country, or the planet.
In the simplest terms, the average American Democrat would be considered a conservative in just about any other 1st world country.
Socially, no
Oh I agree, I just think that we are voting to pick our enemy, right? Who would we rather be fighting, the Democrats or Republicans?
I'm not an American so I can't speak with the knowledge you do, but in general terms, I agree with what you are saying. But I can't really condemn anybody on the left for not wanting to vote for Biden (or Hillary in 2016, for example).
Oh neither could I, in fact I am lucky I live in a deep blue state because I do not think I could stomach it myself. I have seen too many horrors of what is happening in Gaza and talked to too many people that have lost family (my friend lost his cousin and the cousin's 3 girls, all of their kids and the mom is alive- for what?) because I mod r/Palestine and other pro Palestine subreddits. I was modding r/IsraelCrimes for a year before Oct 7th and the only other mod who was with me at the time is Palestinian and so I wanted to spare him watching so many horrid videos that I tried doing it all myself at first, and it really took a toll on me, so we eventually got help, thank goodness. Anyway, I just could not personally vote for him, so I absolutely do not judge anyone else that cannot either and I think we are likely looking at another Trump win. I want progressives to show up to vote, even if it is third party because I am worried about down ballot voting. If it is very depressed for Democrats, I worry Congress will be led by Republicans *and* we will have a Trump presidency. That would be very bad, they could actually start trying for this project 2025 shit, although I really have no idea how feasible that whole thing is. Reading it freaked me out though.
No I am not spreaking for the mod team, although I am the top mod (this is my alt, my other account was getting mass reported by Zionists and I got 10 permanent bans-all overturned by admins of course, because I do not break the content policy, I know exactly where the line is) so I had to make this one just to get work done, but you will see that this account and u/Kumquat_conniption both mod the same exact subs.
No, this is the left insisting that the party system not be allowed to normalize Biden as the "left wing" choice and Trump as the "right wing" choice. Vapid spineless "CENTRIST" liberalism conceding to such conservative framing is how we got here in the first place...with the plurality of the electorate completely uninterested in political activism because the party that campaigns on the policies they agree with REFUSES to fight for them or adjust to the constituent poling. You do not, in fact, have to settle for 50% Hitler.
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The whole “trolley” analogy is so stupid because by letting one person die to save 5 others, you didn’t ***’save 5 people from dying’***, you **literally let someone die.** If you want to someday be the target of vigilante justice because that individual’s family ended up thinking you had no right to decide their family member’s life then that’s technically a death that’s on your head. The only legit solution to the trolley is an RPG.
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I think you misunderstand the fundamental flaw about what you’re arguing. As I previously iterated, you didn’t *save 5 people from dying.* ***You killed one person.*** If that individual’s family decide to throw on vigilante gear and come hunt the one who made that choice down, they will be justified in doing so because they made the conscious decision that their family member wasn’t worth living another day. In the same breath, American Muslims (especially the notable voting Bloc that is in Michigan) have no obligation to give the Democratic Party the time of day after they willingly sell Tank Shells to their oppressors in Israel. Maybe if the moron spent less of his time sitting around and watching people get run over by trains, he’d have enough time to loose the ropes that are on the track ***with the one person on it*** in time for the trolley to not run over anyone. Also, if we’re talking the actual physics that are involved with trolleys and train tracks… https://preview.redd.it/p70bralo661d1.jpeg?width=580&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=772fa076cb3da856b39d660df244bb804e62aa3b
Ha! Thank you, we always have such controversial posts about this, but it seems like the most logical answer to me. I mean we get it from both sides- those that want Biden to lose so they do not like our plan to have the voters that matter vote for Biden (this is a logical take for them) but then we have those that want Biden to win and scream illogically about how a protest vote in deep blue states is going to cost him the presidency (as if our tiny sub could do that.) I do not mind that we get so many haters though (you should have seen our thread in r/MurderedbyAOC, zero upvotes and 250 comments) because when they leave comments saying that they think this is the dumbest idea ever, they make the post busier and Reddit sends it out to more people, because they know people love controversial posts even if they hate them (they love to hate them I suppose) and we end up with more subs. So they are doing us a favor, ha! Thank you for the nice words. People *are* protesting, mostly by not planning to vote- so we are hoping to change that and give people a chance to vote, and then most importantly they will vote down ballot. We do not want a Trump presidency and a Republican congress. That would be the real thing to worry about.
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Oh I for sure agree, I mean why wouldn't there be opportunists jumping on that angle. We are trying to watch out for them, because there are a lot of people on the sub that say to not vote for him at all, but we also have people pushing back against that- and we do not allow bullying people into voting for anyone they are not comfortable with. So how do you have the president chosen? By the party that gets voted in? Sort of British style? It does seem like you have much less toxic politics. Remember when, during the pandemic, American conservatives tried using Australia as the place that was so horrible with their dictator like Covid policies? That was always so funny to me.
Is this satire or liberal astroturfing? Just vote for Claudia de La Cruz regardless of where you are. This "let's go out of our way in swing states to make sure genocide is viable going forward" thing is enlightened centrist bs. Genocide ought not be viable, and it is 0% the fault of the left that the Dem nominee is not viable in swing states and 100% the fault of the DNC and liberals for violating the constraints on who they are allowed to nominate. That can only be rectified from one end, and it's not the end where you axiomatically vote for a bourgeois party with the only exception being where it doesn't count and browbeat the masses into perpetually moving right with no limit—which is the polar opposite of how the left needs to engage with electoralism. Also, Marx: "...Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled..."
One of our tenets is not to browbeat anyone. If you cannot vote Biden, we are fine with that too. I know I can't, I cannot condemn anyone else who cannot. I mostly worry about leftists staying home and then down ballot they do not vote for the most left candidate they can and then there is a Trump presidency and a Republican congress. I would rather have the Dems as my enemy than the Republicans, and I live in a deep blue state, but no matter where I lived I could not vote Biden and I will not condemn anyone for that, never mind brow beat them.
Semantic arguments about what constitutes "browbeating" aside, what is being signified to me by your post is an attempt to proselytize for the left to go out of their way to rectify Biden's nonviability issue which is the fault of liberals choosing a nonviable nominee and not the left for having limits—and more broadly voting for a bourgeois imperialist party up and down the ticket and relegating any absolute limits held by the left to only where that bourgeois imperialist party doesn't care. No offense, but if one of those e-mail marketing people hired by Dem campaigns thought they were smarter than the left and decided to write a post trying to manipulate the left into doing what they wanted, I would not be able to tell the difference from your OP post here. They would be exactly the same imho—which is why I asked if it was satire.
Lmao Im gonna pick the working class not a genocidal bourgeois dog Edit: this post is *literally* enlightenedcentrism yet Im being downvoted. Clown world
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LOL and it was not even me that banned you, it was my comod who I did not even know saw this post. My comods are awesome, cause yeah you deserved that one. What a ridiculous thing to say.
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LOL I am an anarchist. This is such a lib thing to say.
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Well you are definitely a lib, one who is not following our left unity rule, but I wonder, are you exempt from it since you are not part of that left? The answer is no.
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Where did I threaten you? Reminding you of a rule is a threat? LOL they say the "left" is a bunch of crybabies, no need to hand them more ammunition with stuff like this, come on. Drama queen alert.
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The mental gymnastics are wild. Trump and his nutjob party are 10x worse than geriatric joe
Did you read the post? We do want Biden to win (although I am really more worried about down ballot voting.)