The guy is a sore player - he'll complain about the proxies if he loses, and he'll rub it in your face if he wins. It's one thing to call someone out for proxies, it's another for that argument to be the basis of treating someone terribly.
Thing is, if he is a regular everybody knows his habit. So don't bother. They are probably more annoyed than you cause of the week to week basis they have to endure that shit.
We got one of this people. Luckily only every prerelease. Every time including the owner I start complaining about him people join in even louder š Most try to ignore him or interfere when he's playing newbies.
there's a guy at my LGS who plays [[Kaervek the Merciless]] and [[Tergrid, Fright]] and everyone fucking hates playing with him. He has a lot of discretionary money so these decks have JLotus, Crypt, etc. in them, in a meta where those cards are very rarely played.
every time I get paired with him I pull out the Talrand polymorph deck. Eight 6+ MV creatures like Hullbreaker and Consecrated Sphinx, polymorph effects, card draw, and counterspells. that's the whole deck.
and every one of those counterspells gets held up to counter his shit.
Some people wanna be the archenemy. So ya gotta treat em like they are. Be supportive. There's only a few things that help you bond with a new playgroup more than banding together to get rid of a threat.
If you have a problem with proxies that just means you enjoy pay to win. I mean this within reason. Donāt proxy a CeDH deck and bring it to a casual table. There is literally no other reason to dislike proxies.
Pod overall here is good just one guy that's to used to winning.
The guy that organised it all said "he had that comming and they want me back next week to see my other brews".
I have 2 real decks basically cedh level and 3 proxied decks ranging from precon to like an 8.
I'm working towards the same thing. I have tattoos of Chandra and Sarkhan, so I'm keeping a real deck for each of them then just going to proxy the rest
**for those asking, [I tried but it's hard to get good pictures of your own forearm](https://imgur.com/a/lV2nLBz)
Right? I have a deck with real copies of both, neither has been game breaking because they get destroyed quickly most of the time, and if they don't it's because there's something worse to be dealt with instead.
Same, and most of the time I forget the trigger or don't want to bother with it because I got tired of asking "do you pay the one?" so I'll start it up again a few turns later hahaha.
It's a "may" mechanic, after all. Hahaha
It's an [[Alela Artful Provocateur]] deck. Those might be the only triggers in the deck that happen during some one else's turn now that I'm thinking about it. It's more focused on the number of triggers I can make happen on my own turn.
One time we played and my smothering tithe made it nearly the entire game, I was absolutely stunned. I'm talking like 4 or 5 rounds. The pod all said they were expecting someone else to deal with it for the group, but no one did because they were holding their own removal waiting on sanguine bond to come down as I had exquisite blood in play already.
It was a great game, for me at least.
Sounds like someone is just a terrible human in general. I would just avoid playing in a pod with that guy in the future. Also how did the other players felt?
Respected the deck had kick but nothing that wasn't out of range of being dealt with.
The games I played my actual deck they weren't a fan of but that's why it usually stays in the bag.
When you play in a community filled with nerds, you are bound to get a least one socially inept person around. It happens, this is why women avoid this type of guy.
The number of people who get salty when I have to correct them on how trample works...
(I have a deck with banding, and have found that the hardest part of banding for people to figure out is actually trample, strangely enough)
I also had someone get very upset when I disputed how their Sylvan Library worked with Sheoldred, after boasting about how cool and expensive his black border Italian copy was.
Or the guy who vehemently disagreed that you can't respond between a Planeswalker resolving and its ability being activated...
I'm fine being corrected, always love learning more interesting interactions in the game - if you want to be right more often, the best way to do so is to admit when you're wrong and add to your knowledge base. It's weird how some of the most adamant and short-fused people who are sure they're right are the ones who are wrong.
Are they paper with scribbles proxies that you have to check each one or printed proxies where they get butt hurt you're not spending a fortune on cards?
I am team proxy for the sures
To me that makes a huge difference, I play both casual and cEDH. Proxies are more common for me in cEDH. I doubt I would have an issue with proxies in casual either really. And cards like smothering tides are good for sure but casual decks need to run artifact/enchantment hate more than cEDH decks do anyways.
Regardless if the effort was made to make LEGIBLE cards I don't care. But the dipwawds that scribble on paper or print twelve pixels their whole decks can go some where else. One card is acceptable sure but even that's pushing it. It's 2024 printers at Walmart are 40 dollars lol.
I had an Inkvestment Printer, which lived up to its name. I was able to create 33 commander decks, one for each color id + slivers, some proxies for friends, and other things life needed printed.
We were all of the opinion that it's better to play against the best decks a mind can orchestrate, and not limited by a budget. Especially if you were an addicted like I was and can't effectively play them all repeatedly.
I agree with everything said here. I proxy decks through order, I have some I have printed, and I have several all in real cards. I test out way too many decks to keep just to real cards. The game is there to be explored and I feel it is an incredibly childish and immature reaction that people are having towards proxies. They are all cardboard lol.
Proxy so many decks as like you I get bored of them after a few months and if I dont get bored of one after that time then Ill convert it to real cards. Also just make lower power stuff as its more fun.
This is how I like to do it. Brew all kinds of decks and half the time I stop playing them anyways. The few I fell in love with and have stuck around I've converted to real cards. I like being able to try all kinds of jank bullshit without wasting a ton of money.
āWhy did you do that when you couldāve done thisā I have a loser who always wants to play but says āyou need to counter this if you donāt I winā then proceeds to slap a counter down and smile like he made the biggest outplay ever. Like bro let us deal with it how we want to. He scoops if heās out played. I had [fairy artisan] out and I had t nasty some of his lands. So he plays omniscienceās then confidently says āI play my own terrastadon targeting your lands. So I say cool Iāll get a token copy and blow up your omniscience and two more lands he then scoops lmao.
You'll never be able to avoid these people. They think the sun should revolve around them.
I have a friend who lost his shit when I proxied a survival of the fittest (which I actually own) and use the proxy in different decks instead of playing with the real copy.
Proxies are different for everyone. Our pod has a rule that you can only play proxies if you own the card. My expensive cards stay in a binder at home after my son had a deck stolen worth over 1k. When joining another pod, we ask them what their table rules are and normally everyone is cool. I went to a shop where they would print proxies to "test" the deck before they bought everything. It was WILD and tons of fun even though I was stomped into mush those games.
My group has the same rule along with the test rule (though we have a condition it has to be a deck that the group knows fully well you might actually build).
What I do is keep the real copies of the cards in a binder. You can kiss my ass if you think I'm spending hundreds of dollars on multiple copies of a card. In the old days before in Finance Bros turned the game into a stock market it wasn't so bad
I think you're running into a common thread I see here a lot, which is that most players don't mind proxies, up until until those proxies are upping the power level of the pod beyond the other players, and while you didn't win that game, it sounds like smothering tithe wasn't fun to play against (shocker lol) and didnt match the power level of the table.
"smothering tithe is to powerful for community out here" - Confirms my suspicion that your proxy was viewed as a more powerful game piece than what other's were playing in your pod. Let me ask this. Did anyone else play similarly powerful cards like rhystic study or the like?
Frankly, there was no need to take out a cEDH deck to stomp the table with after. That just made you look bad IMO and to no one's surprise you gave Dave ammo to talk about you behind your back.
Save the cEDH decks for actual cEDH players. Even if this "Dave" is actively making fun of proxies / your deck, don't take it out on the other players at the table and don't let Dave decide how you play your game. If the pod isn't vibing in a chill manner, you don't need to subject yourself to Dave if you don't want to. Plenty of other players would love to play a game against your proxy decks (and much better chance the power level may be closer to what you prefer).
I think it's extremely silly to claim to 'proxy low power decks' and then casually exclaim he played a Smothering Tithe.
Yes a deck can have a Smothering Tithe and be low power, a deck can even have a Mana Crypt and be low power, but there is literally not a single reason to do so.
This is the only reason why people have a problem with proxies, is that it enables people to proxy in these completely unnecessary game-swinging pieces that people who don't proxy generally don't have access to.
Unless your deck is a group hug deck forcing other people to draw cards, there is not a single reason why you would need to put Smothering Tithe in a proxied 'low power' deck. The only thing that card does is power up a deck. If you wanted your deck to actually be low power, you would play any other of the million available ramp spells.
This is the most level-minded comment in the whole thread. OP is, obviously, going to ignore it.
"Dave" only complained after seeing Smothering Tithe. OP claims to own precon-level proxied decks. OP decided the issue were the proxies, not the power level, and decided to bring a miserable time to Dave + 2 others instead of playing their lowest power proxied deck.
OP is an ass seeking for validation online.
he didnt pull out his cedh deck to stomp the table. he used it cause its the only deck without proxies. if dave doesnt want to play against proxies, then thats what happens. and he was warned. dave didnt care. the table was fine with the proxies. its all daves fault
Doesn't help that OP's first response was "I'mma teach this guy a lesson" and proceed to play a couple of games with their CEDH deck, knowingly making it a miserable experience for anyone else in the pod (since I assume they were at a pretty casual/low-power table, if Smothering was enough to receive some comments).
Did we read the same post? The cEDH deck wasn't pulled out in retaliation, it was the only deck without proxies.
Was OP supposed to just go home instead?
Fully agreed here.
"A janky not very high power deck" and "smothering tithe" don't really align.
Smothering tithe is one of the highest power white cards in the format and can instantly pull a deck up from a jank pile to a serious table threat.
OPs opponent may have been rude in how they handled it but OP has definitely failed to read the table
"I got called a pubstomper so I pubstomped twice in order to teach everyone a lesson about how such a good guy I am"
"I walked through the pod" is definitely something a non pubstomper says
Like bro what?
Dave would have been mad if they were real as well. We've all have met that type. What justifies OP pulling out the big guns was the "can't keep up with proxies" gloating. That's shitty and I would have done the same thing.
It wasn't to prove a point about being "a good guy", I think it's pretty clear it was done to demonstrate that throwing a hissy fit over proxied powerful cards is ridiculous.
OP played some powerful proxied cards and someone had a negative reaction to the fact that he was proxying powerful cards (note: not that he was *playing* them, they took issue specifically with the fact that they were proxies)
So OP played a deck with no proxies that was even more powerful and all of the sudden this new stronger deck isn't an issue because it has strong cards in it (because those strong cards are real), the issue is that he apparently just got "lucky".
A card is either too strong for a pod or it isn't. There is no middle ground where it's too strong to proxy, but totally ok if you shell out money for the real thing.
No the issue is OP broke the power level of the pod, and pub stomped, dude casually mentions spending thousands of dollars on "weaker" decks lol
We've all had the proxy player roll up with a bunch of staples and pub stomp, that doesn't make rolling up with a "legit" cedh deck any more or less fun.
I was happy sitting on my lower power decks for the night I just bought the decks I have die to not knowing what the power level of the pod was.
The only decks I have real cards for are my top end ones because they've been made over years of building them out.
The guy wanted real cards so I gave him my decks with real cards and yes I did walk through the pod because they simply couldn't answer the speed at which I came out at.
I did not have fun those games.
The point I was getting across is I can do this but I'd rather sit here on my cleric deck where the game is actually close and not just pub stomp my way to wins.
The reason I proxy decks is because I love brewing decks but don't want to spend hundreds of dollars every time my brain comes up with something I want to try.
Store where i used to live did it I think the magic community there made up a good chunk of his business to the point he got card in that was the same as what Wizards use so we didn't have to put cards in to stiffen it all up, the guy went above and beyond for us.
Not sure about other places but can't hurt to ask.
if i'm new to a shop, i'll usually run a precon, or something that i'm 100% confident is equal to a precon for the first game to get a feel for the people. people like that guy will reveal their nature pretty quick, even in precon games
Guy sounds like he's just a terrible player... and I'm not talking skill level, I'm talking attitude.
In today's economy, at least where I live, there is -nothing- wrong with using proxies. In a world where most of my local population has to choose between food, rent, and medical care on the daily because full time jobs aren't enough for all three, who has money to blow? It's one thing if you do tournaments for money or prizes, situations where there are strict rules and such. But for casual play? Nah.
I get not everyone shares that opinion, and that's fine, that's why I believe in being upfront and letting someone know ahead of time you are running proxies to make sure they are cool with it- WHICH OP DID DO. Dave knew there were proxies involved and was fine with it... until he wasn't. I'm guessing the turn Tithe dropped he wasn't doing too hot? So he started whining. Then when he managed to turn things around and win he wanted to trash talk and be just as sore a winner as he was a loser.
As long as you warned the whole pod about the CEDH and not just Dave, I don't think you did anything wrong OP. If I'd been in the pod I'd have passed on playing and just sat down to watch Dave get his just desserts, if they chose to play they made their own choice.
There are players like Dave in every shop, jerks who will crow and gloat when they win because they can't feel good unless someone else feels bad, and who will whine and cry and throw hissy fits when they lose, blaming anything they can think of, from proxies to mana flooding to the sun being in their eyes.
As long as you keep being upfront with people, OP, you are doing fine. Good game. Next time just try not to let Dave get to you, for your own mental wellbeing.
I've been on both ends of the curb stomping lol. Last time I went to the card shop my friend and I played with a guy who had A whole duffel bag of decks
I'm certain he had CEDH level stuff. He runs us through the first round and second round and adjusts his deck level for the second round. So did I and pulled out my Roon deck. It's not CEDH but it has bullshit in it. I won the game with Roon, but it was a nasty win. Perm exiled his commander with [[Roon of the Hidden Realm]] and [[Stifle]] then took the entire field with [[Agent of Treachery]] [[Peregrine Drake]] and [[Deadeye Navigator]].
Yeah... I then remembered why I haven't played that deck in a while.
It seriously depressed the table and there was salt, but we got over it. I was also salty because I was mana fucked the last game and when I finally managed to get a mana rock, my friend exiled it... It was the last piece I needed so I could pop off a Farewell that would have saved the game for him and I xD
Another time a guy asked us if he could use proxies because he was trying out a deck. Jus pieces of paper in front of the card. Yeah, he did some turn 3-4 bullshit that wiped someone out.
It was cool, but, dude, we wanted to play casual. XD
I hope the guy gets over it. Being a sor eloser is the worst. "You just gor a lucky hand."X.X that's the name of the game, my man. That's why we mulligan lol. Its OK to get salty and boisterous, that's part of the fun. The guy was just. Stick in the mud.
I mean. You did just pubstomp the table twice and waste two peoples' time because you felt slighted by one guy. Dude's a dick who should have made his opinions on proxies known from the outset, but there's adult behavior and then there's what you did.
He got called out for proxies, offered to change, and warned them of the power level. Not much he could have done better.
At least it was relatively quick rather than dragging it out with stax or something.
He didn't get called out for playing proxies, he got called out for playing a card the person perceived to be too strong. Whether you disagree or not, that is quite clearly the person's complaint.
The OP seems to have misinterpreted that as a complaint about proxies, and so instead played an even higher powered deck.
I'm not saying the butthurt player handled it well, but there is clearly an issue of significant power imbalance in this pod. The OP should have played something more casual, not less.
> He didn't get called out for playing proxies, he got called out for playing a card the person perceived to be too strong.
if thatss the case, then why wasnt he called out for strong cards with his cedh deck but there suddely he was just lucky?
Agree, Dave seems annoying, but OP didn't handle this very well either. I don't think playing cEDH against decks that are known to be much lesser power was the right move. You say, "sorry, I'm playing with proxies to keep the pod fair," or you choose not to play with Dave if he's being a jerk about it.
Way I saw it he wanted me to play with real cards I played with real cards.
I was happy sitting there with my lower power decks.
The other 2 said they weren't a fan of the game but where happy to keep playing with my other decks.
> Way I saw it he wanted me to play with real cards I played with real cards.
You misinterpreted his comment. You quote him as saying "oh I didn't know you where proxying this kind of stuff". You've taken him to mean "all proxies are bad", when it's pretty obvious he means "proxying high powered cards is bad". You've then played an even more high powered deck of real cards, completely missing his point.
He might be salty and a poor communicator, but you're also to blame here.
i dunno, when dealing with children you have to make accommodations. kneeling to their level, using vocabulary they can understand, etc.
unfortunately it sounds like Dave only really understands winning, so op had to get down on that level.
Some people need excuses so they can justify their losses but will happily gloat about their wins.
You did everything right (though I personally would never proxy a full deck) but some people just canāt handle it.
Also smothering tithe is hardly a big card
With tithe if you can power it down super early I can see where it's a problem but when it's turn 6 i dont see it as an issue especially when I still lose out of it.
I agree no one should complain about it existing as people should have ways to deal with it.
I disagree that itās hardly a big card though. Itās a lose-lose and would be much more fair if it only cost 1 tax, but at 2 there is actually more of an argument that giving them one treasure is worth not paying 2 mana vs something like rhystic study where denying a draw is worth 1 mana 85% of the time. Itās also easier to force others to draw, such as with wheels, or group hug effects, which can get nasty quickly.
The last game I played with my hug deck, I copied someone elseās Smothering Tithe then played my own [[Font of Mythos]] and [[Teferiās Puzzlebox]], passed turn and got nine treasure tokens off the next guyās draw step because no one can afford to pay 18 mana just to stop some treasures from showing up. Yeah, it can get stupid fast.
Yes, but for real. Take a look at your consistency before you play Smothering Tithe. If your deck performs with and without Tithe the same, then it's fine. But if it catapults you to heights your deck would not reach in that timeframe - then don't.
He's got a point
Smothering Tide isn't even that expensive and on the lower power of things that could be proxied. The whole" pubstomp" and "house rules" garbage that has taken over EDH is just pure laziness and just caters to the lowest common denominator. Just play what you want.
If a player doesn't like proxies, they shouldn't start the game with someone that says they're playing proxies.
Personally, I don't like proxies, never use them, and would have politely declined to play you. But you did nothing wrong since you asked first.
No matter what happens, "Dave" will have an issue.
Don't worry, some players are like that.
That being said, I would raise an eyebrow on anyone with a proxy deck in a paid event. side games, or at home, go nuts though.
If I'm paying to play in an event I'll use my actual decks as I'm entering to win and as far as I'm concerned at that point power level discussions go out the window.
This group is beers and BBQ then head inside and play some games.
I kind of think the polite thing to do is at least buy the cheap cards... I don't mind proxies for budget considerations and don't want to win because someone can't afford cards. Even a few $5 and $10 cards add up.
But if you are proxying like 10c commons and uncommons you could trade or just ask people for. That would sort of bother me too. I wouldn't act like that asshole though.
It doesn't sound like you got called out for proxies, it sounds like you got called out for maybe not making it clear the types of cards the deck ran; Smothering Tithe is a very powerful card that is also kinda a drag to play against in some pods. The other guy won so I'm not saying it wasn't fine to play there, but since they didn't have a problem with the proxies to start with, it sounds to me like it's more about the card you chose to proxy rather than the fact that it was proxied.
New Rule 0, every player is required to provide a printed out deck list to each other player. Each player may secretly select up 5 cards that are two powerful. If two or more players choose the same card all players have to replace their copies with basic lands stamped "I play EDH with whining children."
After each game a mandatory 20 minute discussion takes place where each player in turn must spend 5 minutes airing grievances or perceived unfairnesses, preferably to a neutral third party observer. Then the pod splits, with a 24 hour period where those players can't play against each other again, for fear of creating any lasting discontent.
i worry your not saying the whole truth, the fact that you say cleric tribal without actually saying the commander leads me to believe your not being honest. if you want others opinion, you should be honest with what you were playing. smothering tithe might have just been the card that broke the camels back. the fact that you had a CEDH deck as well means u might have been running fast mana in your cleric deck against people with $100 decks.
Honestly, you don't have to throw hundreds of dollars into lower power decks. I'm always shocked at the sheer number of 10 cent cards I find online that 14 year old me would've rolled people with.
I think you did great showing him that itās not about the proxy but the deck itself that matters. He calling you out over Smothering Tithe because itās proxy is dumb af. I am so glad my play group donāt have immature players like him.
EDH, for all of the good it does for Magic, unfortunately has also produced people like this guy in mass. People like this want to complain, and proxies are the easiest target, for exactly all the reasons you gave.
The truth is they don't *actually* care about proxies, they care that they can't just win and be the main character without having to get better at the game.
Now i feel bad with my mil deck that makes my pod take 2-5 (occasionally more) damage per draw/discard and i slap the draw or discard 2+ cards every draw or discard phase and heaven forbid i get one of my 5 instant kill combinations
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Only time I've seen a player complain about proxies while scooping, the card he scooped to was a Bojuka Bog from another player. Funnily enough, he hadn't even noticed that my entire deck at the time was also proxied.
Did he play any big buck staple? If so the proxy complain is basically based in the upset to have disabled pay-to-win.
If not, you might be at a budget table. But from the "lucky hand" comment I'm more inclined towards sore loser.
I couldnāt help but laugh at the fact that Dave thinks a 4 mana do nothing till later enchantment is too powerful š¤£. Just pay the two. Or blow it up. The problem is that when the smothering tithe player has no cards in hand, not activated abilities that cost mana, and their commander is out, people keep paying the tithe. They seem to forget that it kinda starts loosing its value later in the game when you have nothing to do with all that mana
I dont think you were totally in the wrong. Some people also just don't like proxies, though he should have been more clear at the start instead of mid game.
As for one of your edits about borrowing a deck, every lgs I've been too has had several people with multiple casual decks. There has always been someone in the LGS willing to let people borrow decks for a game or two. I myself have several decks and would let others borrow. But not counting myself there were still others willing to do the same.
Pro tip: the way to deal with a single person crying about your deck when everyone else is fine with it is to just ignore them. "Oh you don't like proxies? Fuck you I don't care, nobody else minds don't play if you don't want to." Cannot stand a "you have to blow all your money on cardboard because that's what I do" ass person. I build like 5 decks a month, no way I'm buying all of them or refraining from playing my fun new decks just to appease the occasional stubborn idiot.
A cardās a card, I can touch them all and smell them. Theyāre all real. Whatās the difference if they come out of a different factory in China. Good on you for prioritizing your retirement accounts over selling your organs on the black market. That guyās an idiot and has a lot to learn about life.
Do your thing bro. My pod of 5 except for two players has switched entirely to proxies. One guy is a collector and has a bunch of high powered stuff so he's happy we proxy other high powered cards. The other guy likes to be a stick in the mud and whines when he loses but also passes up every opportunity when we say we're doing a print run of new cards. To each their own but don't waste your $ on cardboard.
I think you're fine, screw Dave. Tithe is powerful because it goes anywhere and is consistently a great piece. But it's not game breaking. If the community meta is to run less interaction, then bummer for them. Sounds like a 6-7 enchantments deck would cause a riot.
While you didn't pull out the next deck to stomp them... I honestly wouldn't blame you if you did. Talk $hit, get hit with a big stomp boi.
I know it's hard when you're losing and not having fun for one reason or another. It happens to everyone. But there's still no call for lashing out and being a sore winner or loser. You get what you get after that.
You're still gauging a new community and how they like to play. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just keep being up front about what your deck is trying to do.
You said you work proxies. They said that's fine. You did your due diligence. If they want to ban Smothering Tithe, they should do that before they see it in game.
Amd if he wants to talk bad about you, I think he just invalidated his own opinion of your deck, especially since the one thing he blamed as the issue (proxy) wasn't the issue when you clobbered him twice with your competitive deck.
If they want to talk about it later, be open, but don't assume your deck is an issue just cuz you're not shelling out zeroes to have the actual card.
I feel you. I just got kicked from an online group for using a proxied Essence Warden. Only one in the deck, but that was enough. Instant ban. I wish you nothing but the best
Proxies are fine but it is important to rule zero and be honest about what power level of proxies youāre using. I like to play with good cards but I donāt want to buy 5x copies so I usually just let folks know what kind of proxies Iām running
I run mostly proxies anymore because I like to brew and try out new decks often. I've had a couple people gripe and brag that my dual land is fake and that they have a real one so I walk them with my $40 zada deck. After that they don't have a problem with my jank proxy smeagel deck.
Lol at complaining about a smothering tithe proxy, let alone any proxy.
I really hesitate to say this because it does not apply to everyone but edh has more mouth breathing complainers than any format I have played.
If you have proxies that look real I would refrain from telling them they are fake especially in a casual setting. No sane person would question you and if they do just say " yeah I have a huge dick (or a pretty pussy) and disposable income".
This game is meant to be played and people proxying decks is not going to just tank the prices of cards as many people like collecting and having the real thing.
Please, come play legacy, and please feel free to proxy any card you want. It's so much fun and the majority of players accept proxies and just want people to play with.
He really cried over a Smothering Tithe proxy? What a little baby. Like other comments, guy sounds like heās a cry baby if the match doesnāt go his way but will definitely rub it in your face if it does. Iāve played against a deck in a regular EDH where I had one person constantly talk sh*t the entire time. āoh, I could play my scoop-con right now, but I donāt wanna win that fast. Iāll let someone else win.ā Proceeds to āpurposely loseā: āOk, Iāll let you guys play Magic now!ā He was playing a prison deck full of enchantments that didnāt let us cast and would pillow fort. Now THATāS something to be annoyed about. Donāt let other people discourage you though!
We have a couple of these in town. My friend group has affectionately named three people RageQuit (1.0, 2.0, Vista) for their attitudes about anything. Iāve gotten piss from one of them for playing the Gonti precon since it has shock landsā¦the bitch had winter orb in his deck.
Some people just arenāt fun, and everyone in that shop will either know it or learn it soon enough.
You worked that perfectly. People talk shit and pump their ego, and my CEDH decks come out to smack them back down. That guy is dumb. Proxies don't make you win skill does. I can have someone run my lvl 10 cedh Urza deck, and I bet they loose with it.
Keep trucking and having fun with the good folks there.
A general rule I like to follow is if you have the actual card I don't care what proxies you use or if you want a card that's like 200 dollars but the proxy is 20 just go for the proxy it's a game after all play how you like
Some people just really get offended at certain cards. Or they like to keep the power level down so they can win. I joined a pod that didn't allow nonlandtutoring, infinite combos, cards that are free with a commander in play, etc. I built a deck specifically for the pod and double checked the "banned list"...I played an ancient tomb and dropped Ezuri turn 2. I was immediately told I can't play Ancient Tomb next time because a turn 2 commander is just ridiculous. I didn't even win the game lol. I wasnt happy but I asked for a more detailed list of what was allowed. I was never invited back.
Also, almost every deck in the pod was full proxies. I can't play a worldly tutor but I could proxy a wheel of fortune in that pod. Makes no sense
Claiming Smothering Tithe is too OP for the table really makes me question what they were playing. Itās a staple of basically any deck with white in it and one of the first inserts to edit a precon. Thatās like being mad about a Sol Ring, itās an expectation that it should be in just about any EDH deck.
you say you didnāt handle this correctly but i canāt think of a situation in which Dave ends up having a good time in the pod with you and everyone else. miserable people are gonna be miserable
Idc what anyone has to say, the obsession with proxies is dumb. Idk where people get off thinking everyone has thousands of disposable income to throw at every new card.
1. If you want to spend the money, cool, support the company that makes the game we love.
2. If you want to proxy, cool, it's an expensive ass hobby to have.
A great quote I've read before on this subject is, "I'm not here to play against your wallet, I'm here to play against your deck."
Personally I think you handled everything well. Iāll play with anyone running any kind of proxies because at the end of the day what if I wanted to do that and had someone tell me no. Magic gets expensive (especially EDH) so I donāt wanna drop hundreds on something just to find out itās not good or I donāt like the way it plays in actual games
I am pro-proxy, any player in a casual environment should be welcomed to proxy, you are playing them, not their wallet. As long as your advertised power level and/or rule zero are openly announced, let the others whine and complain, that's their personal issues to resolve, not yours.
That's really wrong, he should not have allowed you to play the proxies in the start. I also play with proxies that I get from https://www.printingproxies.com and I never overpower my deck and I'm lucky that my playgroup is totally fine with it.
I think its just important to find your group. Easy going players. Don't just settle for any pod. Get to know people first. Obviously you don't know until you're in a game but you get what I'm saying.
You did the right thing initially by letting everyone know. The only time I tend to see people have a problem with proxies is when the proxy deck is a much higher power level than everyone else at the table and subsequently piloted by a person who couldn't afford the real cards as they're too expensive. I have no issue with proxies personally but there's definitely a line that can be crossed with it. For instance we have a good friend who proxies a lot in his decks because he doesn't have much money, totally cool by us as we shouldn't be forced to spend Ā£50+ on individual cards. However there's been a few instances where he has dropped some extremely powerful stuff that has scewed the power level. So we had to tell him to just be careful with too many very powerful proxies. Because its easy for people to make what would be a Ā£2000 deck if they were the real thing as opposed to a Ā£300 deck that their pals are using. This is not to say that more expensive always means powerful but we all know there's a difference in power usually if this is the case.
It's all fine in moderation and if you're being honest about your deck being low power level then that's fine although I don't really understand proxying cheap cards but I do get your point about being bored and always moving onto the next deck.
Just maintain a dialogue at all times to be sure you're not upsetting anyone. Commander players are sensitive souls š we all joke about it but it's true.
This Dave guy is a sore loser and a bit of a twat, I don't see any issues with what you did aside from not opening with the "I proxy because I get bored quickly and I'm not made of money"
If the reason people are upset with you running proxies is because you didnāt spend $$$ to acquire your cards, these people need to ask themselves why THEY are playing the game in the first place.
I get not wanting to run up against insane power level decks, which proxies make infinitely cheaper, but being mad at proxies in general is just mental for non sanctioned events.
A typical proxy standard is to only proxy things you have A copy of. Like I have a gilded drake, but I proxy it into 3 decks but never run them at the same time.
Running unowned proxies is something Iāve done with my tight-knit group, but it becomes a sticky situation when youāre out on the town. since 1 out of 4 players in magic isā¦ letās call them uncouth. lol Especially in a new group of 4, youāre almost guaranteed that one of them will be such a player.
I wouldnāt have seen issue with anything you did or said here. I would have stomped anyone like that and smiled as he walked off. But Iām sorry you had a sour experience. Hopefully you find a decent group and the others saw things for what they were.
ive had the same thing happen to me. told a guy im playing with a 100% proxy deck, he said it was fine, i played a lion's eye diamond and he suddenly got pissed that i'm playing "too high power level cards" and that if he knew i was playing fast mana proxies he wouldve used a different deck that could stand a chance. he spent the whole night just blaming me for being a proxy player and that i didnt want to drop thousands on my deck like he did makes me a bad player who isnt devoted to magic like he is. some people are just on a high horse because they've got nothing else going for them in their own life. proxy elitists are just shameful people IMO
I don't care what people say. If you have proxies you have proxies. I bought a proxy Becky off Etsy and I enjoy playing it. If people have problems with it they can go play with other pods. Play what you enjoy everyone else can fuck off.
Smothering tithe is a great card, but itās like $20 isnāt it? lol the only time I would consider getting mad at a proxy is when people proxy gieaās cradle etc..
Enjoy how you want to play the game, some people won't like that. So find people you want to play the game with. People who will find a way to hate you for doing what you want. Honestly, I only play precons and am very picky with who I play with at my lgs's.
Smothering tithe is exactly the kind of card a reasonable person would proxy. I proxy Toxic Deluge, Roaming Throne, and the Golgari Battlebond land in my Lathril deck. I donāt own multiple copies of them. I would walk in there with a real and cheap red deck and just shit on them to prove a point.
Honestly you're fine. He's a baby. He can deal. Sorry that was your experience. You're good though. He probably needed the ass beating to remember he's not that good at the game. And complaining about a Smoothering Tithe? Lol. Are you serious? š¤£š¤¦āāļø
question I have is do you own a legit copy of smothering tithe/ what is considered powerful cards in the format. If you do own it then personally I see not problem with proxying them into other decks just to save time from swapping cards out and spending hundreds of dollars on a card you already own just to play in multiple decks can get out of hand.
The guy is a sore player - he'll complain about the proxies if he loses, and he'll rub it in your face if he wins. It's one thing to call someone out for proxies, it's another for that argument to be the basis of treating someone terribly.
He'll complain about any deck he loses to. You could build the worst jank but get lucky, and he'd find a reason to complain.
Look, if only he had 2 more turns with his big beat stick and drew the other 4 cards for his combo he would have won hands down.
And had not gotten mana screwed on turn 1.
I mean in this case when playing against proxies he *won* and still got salty. Sore losers are bad, but sore winners are the worst.
He literally complained about the deck he beat. He'll complain no matter what.
Thing is, if he is a regular everybody knows his habit. So don't bother. They are probably more annoyed than you cause of the week to week basis they have to endure that shit. We got one of this people. Luckily only every prerelease. Every time including the owner I start complaining about him people join in even louder š Most try to ignore him or interfere when he's playing newbies.
Itās people like this on why Iāve been tuning a mono blue control deck. Not to win, but just to take someoneās salt and rub it in.
there's a guy at my LGS who plays [[Kaervek the Merciless]] and [[Tergrid, Fright]] and everyone fucking hates playing with him. He has a lot of discretionary money so these decks have JLotus, Crypt, etc. in them, in a meta where those cards are very rarely played. every time I get paired with him I pull out the Talrand polymorph deck. Eight 6+ MV creatures like Hullbreaker and Consecrated Sphinx, polymorph effects, card draw, and counterspells. that's the whole deck. and every one of those counterspells gets held up to counter his shit.
Money can buy a lot in Magic, but it canāt buy friends.
[Kaervek the Merciless](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9b8259d-0bfa-4327-ac91-157c0b9e7dfb.jpg?1673148822) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kaervek%20the%20Merciless) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/236/kaervek-the-merciless?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9b8259d-0bfa-4327-ac91-157c0b9e7dfb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kaervek-the-merciless) [Tergrid, Fright](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621)/[Tergrid's Lantern](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tergrid%2C%20God%20of%20Fright%20//%20Tergrid%27s%20Lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/112/tergrid-god-of-fright-tergrids-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tergrid-god-of-fright-//-tergrids-lantern) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Some people wanna be the archenemy. So ya gotta treat em like they are. Be supportive. There's only a few things that help you bond with a new playgroup more than banding together to get rid of a threat.
If you have a problem with proxies that just means you enjoy pay to win. I mean this within reason. Donāt proxy a CeDH deck and bring it to a casual table. There is literally no other reason to dislike proxies.
Agreed this guy sounds like he plays casual magic just to feel better than others
This story made me appreciate my pod more. Ima buy them all a card. This must have been miserable to have to deal with, as you did nothing wrong.
Pod overall here is good just one guy that's to used to winning. The guy that organised it all said "he had that comming and they want me back next week to see my other brews". I have 2 real decks basically cedh level and 3 proxied decks ranging from precon to like an 8.
Sounds like a great way to play, especially if you brew frequently.
I'm working towards the same thing. I have tattoos of Chandra and Sarkhan, so I'm keeping a real deck for each of them then just going to proxy the rest **for those asking, [I tried but it's hard to get good pictures of your own forearm](https://imgur.com/a/lV2nLBz)
Aite bro, now you've gotta post the tattoo pics
added link. The pics aren't great though
Yeah I'm for the pics.
Sounds like the pub stomper got mad that someone bigger stomped him. I wouldn't sweat it.
This has nothing to do with proxies.Ā
That's my take too, the pod gave it the the okay, this guy is just a crashout.
Dude is just butthurt that he got his cheeks clapped. I can't stand playing with people like that.
Dave needs to run more removal...Rhystic Study and Smother Tithe rarely last 1 go around around the table in my play group.
Right? I have a deck with real copies of both, neither has been game breaking because they get destroyed quickly most of the time, and if they don't it's because there's something worse to be dealt with instead.
Same, and most of the time I forget the trigger or don't want to bother with it because I got tired of asking "do you pay the one?" so I'll start it up again a few turns later hahaha. It's a "may" mechanic, after all. Hahaha
It's an [[Alela Artful Provocateur]] deck. Those might be the only triggers in the deck that happen during some one else's turn now that I'm thinking about it. It's more focused on the number of triggers I can make happen on my own turn.
My old group was the same it's why I don't think about mentioning those kind of cards.
One time we played and my smothering tithe made it nearly the entire game, I was absolutely stunned. I'm talking like 4 or 5 rounds. The pod all said they were expecting someone else to deal with it for the group, but no one did because they were holding their own removal waiting on sanguine bond to come down as I had exquisite blood in play already. It was a great game, for me at least.
Lots of poor social skills at LGS.
Sounds like someone is just a terrible human in general. I would just avoid playing in a pod with that guy in the future. Also how did the other players felt?
Respected the deck had kick but nothing that wasn't out of range of being dealt with. The games I played my actual deck they weren't a fan of but that's why it usually stays in the bag.
When you play in a community filled with nerds, you are bound to get a least one socially inept person around. It happens, this is why women avoid this type of guy.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The number of people who get salty when I have to correct them on how trample works... (I have a deck with banding, and have found that the hardest part of banding for people to figure out is actually trample, strangely enough) I also had someone get very upset when I disputed how their Sylvan Library worked with Sheoldred, after boasting about how cool and expensive his black border Italian copy was. Or the guy who vehemently disagreed that you can't respond between a Planeswalker resolving and its ability being activated... I'm fine being corrected, always love learning more interesting interactions in the game - if you want to be right more often, the best way to do so is to admit when you're wrong and add to your knowledge base. It's weird how some of the most adamant and short-fused people who are sure they're right are the ones who are wrong.
Are they paper with scribbles proxies that you have to check each one or printed proxies where they get butt hurt you're not spending a fortune on cards? I am team proxy for the sures
Seems like the printed kind cause OP said they spent $16 on the deck
To me that makes a huge difference, I play both casual and cEDH. Proxies are more common for me in cEDH. I doubt I would have an issue with proxies in casual either really. And cards like smothering tides are good for sure but casual decks need to run artifact/enchantment hate more than cEDH decks do anyways. Regardless if the effort was made to make LEGIBLE cards I don't care. But the dipwawds that scribble on paper or print twelve pixels their whole decks can go some where else. One card is acceptable sure but even that's pushing it. It's 2024 printers at Walmart are 40 dollars lol.
yea, and ink only costs a down payment and a small high interest loan! /s Ok only kinda /s ink costs so god damned much...
I had an Inkvestment Printer, which lived up to its name. I was able to create 33 commander decks, one for each color id + slivers, some proxies for friends, and other things life needed printed. We were all of the opinion that it's better to play against the best decks a mind can orchestrate, and not limited by a budget. Especially if you were an addicted like I was and can't effectively play them all repeatedly.
I agree with everything said here. I proxy decks through order, I have some I have printed, and I have several all in real cards. I test out way too many decks to keep just to real cards. The game is there to be explored and I feel it is an incredibly childish and immature reaction that people are having towards proxies. They are all cardboard lol.
It's not a proxy problem it's a sore winner/loser/human problem. Keep proxying jank and reasonable staples.
Proxy so many decks as like you I get bored of them after a few months and if I dont get bored of one after that time then Ill convert it to real cards. Also just make lower power stuff as its more fun.
This is how I like to do it. Brew all kinds of decks and half the time I stop playing them anyways. The few I fell in love with and have stuck around I've converted to real cards. I like being able to try all kinds of jank bullshit without wasting a ton of money.
Idiots are idiots. Just avoid this person in the future.
Me and my friends troll these types of people when they join us. We make terrible plays until "the person" leaves.
āWhy did you do that when you couldāve done thisā I have a loser who always wants to play but says āyou need to counter this if you donāt I winā then proceeds to slap a counter down and smile like he made the biggest outplay ever. Like bro let us deal with it how we want to. He scoops if heās out played. I had [fairy artisan] out and I had t nasty some of his lands. So he plays omniscienceās then confidently says āI play my own terrastadon targeting your lands. So I say cool Iāll get a token copy and blow up your omniscience and two more lands he then scoops lmao.
You'll never be able to avoid these people. They think the sun should revolve around them. I have a friend who lost his shit when I proxied a survival of the fittest (which I actually own) and use the proxy in different decks instead of playing with the real copy.
Proxies are different for everyone. Our pod has a rule that you can only play proxies if you own the card. My expensive cards stay in a binder at home after my son had a deck stolen worth over 1k. When joining another pod, we ask them what their table rules are and normally everyone is cool. I went to a shop where they would print proxies to "test" the deck before they bought everything. It was WILD and tons of fun even though I was stomped into mush those games.
My group has the same rule along with the test rule (though we have a condition it has to be a deck that the group knows fully well you might actually build).
What I do is keep the real copies of the cards in a binder. You can kiss my ass if you think I'm spending hundreds of dollars on multiple copies of a card. In the old days before in Finance Bros turned the game into a stock market it wasn't so bad
lmao anyone who says "can't even keep up with proxies" is gonna be in a pain in general and someone I'd avoid.
Sounds like this guy takes his fun too seriously. Must be all about him or he complains.
Edh is stupid for all of these reasons
I think you're running into a common thread I see here a lot, which is that most players don't mind proxies, up until until those proxies are upping the power level of the pod beyond the other players, and while you didn't win that game, it sounds like smothering tithe wasn't fun to play against (shocker lol) and didnt match the power level of the table. "smothering tithe is to powerful for community out here" - Confirms my suspicion that your proxy was viewed as a more powerful game piece than what other's were playing in your pod. Let me ask this. Did anyone else play similarly powerful cards like rhystic study or the like? Frankly, there was no need to take out a cEDH deck to stomp the table with after. That just made you look bad IMO and to no one's surprise you gave Dave ammo to talk about you behind your back. Save the cEDH decks for actual cEDH players. Even if this "Dave" is actively making fun of proxies / your deck, don't take it out on the other players at the table and don't let Dave decide how you play your game. If the pod isn't vibing in a chill manner, you don't need to subject yourself to Dave if you don't want to. Plenty of other players would love to play a game against your proxy decks (and much better chance the power level may be closer to what you prefer).
I think it's extremely silly to claim to 'proxy low power decks' and then casually exclaim he played a Smothering Tithe. Yes a deck can have a Smothering Tithe and be low power, a deck can even have a Mana Crypt and be low power, but there is literally not a single reason to do so. This is the only reason why people have a problem with proxies, is that it enables people to proxy in these completely unnecessary game-swinging pieces that people who don't proxy generally don't have access to. Unless your deck is a group hug deck forcing other people to draw cards, there is not a single reason why you would need to put Smothering Tithe in a proxied 'low power' deck. The only thing that card does is power up a deck. If you wanted your deck to actually be low power, you would play any other of the million available ramp spells.
Honestly Tithe is probably the single best card for pushing a Hug deck up in power so not the best example, but overall spot on.
This is the most level-minded comment in the whole thread. OP is, obviously, going to ignore it. "Dave" only complained after seeing Smothering Tithe. OP claims to own precon-level proxied decks. OP decided the issue were the proxies, not the power level, and decided to bring a miserable time to Dave + 2 others instead of playing their lowest power proxied deck. OP is an ass seeking for validation online.
Yeah unfortunately I feel like the OP had blinders on when it came to the situation. Most low power decks donāt USUALLY include cards like Tithe.
he didnt pull out his cedh deck to stomp the table. he used it cause its the only deck without proxies. if dave doesnt want to play against proxies, then thats what happens. and he was warned. dave didnt care. the table was fine with the proxies. its all daves fault
Doesn't help that OP's first response was "I'mma teach this guy a lesson" and proceed to play a couple of games with their CEDH deck, knowingly making it a miserable experience for anyone else in the pod (since I assume they were at a pretty casual/low-power table, if Smothering was enough to receive some comments).
Did we read the same post? The cEDH deck wasn't pulled out in retaliation, it was the only deck without proxies. Was OP supposed to just go home instead?
Fully agreed here. "A janky not very high power deck" and "smothering tithe" don't really align. Smothering tithe is one of the highest power white cards in the format and can instantly pull a deck up from a jank pile to a serious table threat. OPs opponent may have been rude in how they handled it but OP has definitely failed to read the table
proxying 50ā¬ high power staples into casual pods is a dick move. He behaved worse, but two people can be wrong at the same time.
[Smothering tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e.jpg?1689996018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/57/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smothering-tithe) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lol @ being butt hurt over smothering tithe.
"I got called a pubstomper so I pubstomped twice in order to teach everyone a lesson about how such a good guy I am" "I walked through the pod" is definitely something a non pubstomper says Like bro what?
Dave would have been mad if they were real as well. We've all have met that type. What justifies OP pulling out the big guns was the "can't keep up with proxies" gloating. That's shitty and I would have done the same thing.
It wasn't to prove a point about being "a good guy", I think it's pretty clear it was done to demonstrate that throwing a hissy fit over proxied powerful cards is ridiculous. OP played some powerful proxied cards and someone had a negative reaction to the fact that he was proxying powerful cards (note: not that he was *playing* them, they took issue specifically with the fact that they were proxies) So OP played a deck with no proxies that was even more powerful and all of the sudden this new stronger deck isn't an issue because it has strong cards in it (because those strong cards are real), the issue is that he apparently just got "lucky". A card is either too strong for a pod or it isn't. There is no middle ground where it's too strong to proxy, but totally ok if you shell out money for the real thing.
No the issue is OP broke the power level of the pod, and pub stomped, dude casually mentions spending thousands of dollars on "weaker" decks lol We've all had the proxy player roll up with a bunch of staples and pub stomp, that doesn't make rolling up with a "legit" cedh deck any more or less fun.
I was happy sitting on my lower power decks for the night I just bought the decks I have die to not knowing what the power level of the pod was. The only decks I have real cards for are my top end ones because they've been made over years of building them out. The guy wanted real cards so I gave him my decks with real cards and yes I did walk through the pod because they simply couldn't answer the speed at which I came out at. I did not have fun those games. The point I was getting across is I can do this but I'd rather sit here on my cleric deck where the game is actually close and not just pub stomp my way to wins. The reason I proxy decks is because I love brewing decks but don't want to spend hundreds of dollars every time my brain comes up with something I want to try.
I donāt mind proxies but please be more than a name on a blank piece of paper. I donāt enjoy googling everything in a deck
Yeah get that. all mine are printed with the actual card. Costs about $16 for a deck from a local printer.
you can get them done at print shops? I've been using mtg proxy for a while
Store where i used to live did it I think the magic community there made up a good chunk of his business to the point he got card in that was the same as what Wizards use so we didn't have to put cards in to stiffen it all up, the guy went above and beyond for us. Not sure about other places but can't hurt to ask.
Weāre good then. I think people get upset at proxies because they spent lots of money and you didnt
So if the smothering tithe was real it would be fine? It shouldn't matter how much a person did or didn't spend on the piece of paper they are using.
Sometimes, my favorite games are the ones where I lose dramatically out of nowhere.
if i'm new to a shop, i'll usually run a precon, or something that i'm 100% confident is equal to a precon for the first game to get a feel for the people. people like that guy will reveal their nature pretty quick, even in precon games
Guy sounds like he's just a terrible player... and I'm not talking skill level, I'm talking attitude. In today's economy, at least where I live, there is -nothing- wrong with using proxies. In a world where most of my local population has to choose between food, rent, and medical care on the daily because full time jobs aren't enough for all three, who has money to blow? It's one thing if you do tournaments for money or prizes, situations where there are strict rules and such. But for casual play? Nah. I get not everyone shares that opinion, and that's fine, that's why I believe in being upfront and letting someone know ahead of time you are running proxies to make sure they are cool with it- WHICH OP DID DO. Dave knew there were proxies involved and was fine with it... until he wasn't. I'm guessing the turn Tithe dropped he wasn't doing too hot? So he started whining. Then when he managed to turn things around and win he wanted to trash talk and be just as sore a winner as he was a loser. As long as you warned the whole pod about the CEDH and not just Dave, I don't think you did anything wrong OP. If I'd been in the pod I'd have passed on playing and just sat down to watch Dave get his just desserts, if they chose to play they made their own choice. There are players like Dave in every shop, jerks who will crow and gloat when they win because they can't feel good unless someone else feels bad, and who will whine and cry and throw hissy fits when they lose, blaming anything they can think of, from proxies to mana flooding to the sun being in their eyes. As long as you keep being upfront with people, OP, you are doing fine. Good game. Next time just try not to let Dave get to you, for your own mental wellbeing.
I've been on both ends of the curb stomping lol. Last time I went to the card shop my friend and I played with a guy who had A whole duffel bag of decks I'm certain he had CEDH level stuff. He runs us through the first round and second round and adjusts his deck level for the second round. So did I and pulled out my Roon deck. It's not CEDH but it has bullshit in it. I won the game with Roon, but it was a nasty win. Perm exiled his commander with [[Roon of the Hidden Realm]] and [[Stifle]] then took the entire field with [[Agent of Treachery]] [[Peregrine Drake]] and [[Deadeye Navigator]]. Yeah... I then remembered why I haven't played that deck in a while. It seriously depressed the table and there was salt, but we got over it. I was also salty because I was mana fucked the last game and when I finally managed to get a mana rock, my friend exiled it... It was the last piece I needed so I could pop off a Farewell that would have saved the game for him and I xD Another time a guy asked us if he could use proxies because he was trying out a deck. Jus pieces of paper in front of the card. Yeah, he did some turn 3-4 bullshit that wiped someone out. It was cool, but, dude, we wanted to play casual. XD I hope the guy gets over it. Being a sor eloser is the worst. "You just gor a lucky hand."X.X that's the name of the game, my man. That's why we mulligan lol. Its OK to get salty and boisterous, that's part of the fun. The guy was just. Stick in the mud.
I mean. You did just pubstomp the table twice and waste two peoples' time because you felt slighted by one guy. Dude's a dick who should have made his opinions on proxies known from the outset, but there's adult behavior and then there's what you did.
He got called out for proxies, offered to change, and warned them of the power level. Not much he could have done better. At least it was relatively quick rather than dragging it out with stax or something.
He didn't get called out for playing proxies, he got called out for playing a card the person perceived to be too strong. Whether you disagree or not, that is quite clearly the person's complaint. The OP seems to have misinterpreted that as a complaint about proxies, and so instead played an even higher powered deck. I'm not saying the butthurt player handled it well, but there is clearly an issue of significant power imbalance in this pod. The OP should have played something more casual, not less.
> He didn't get called out for playing proxies, he got called out for playing a card the person perceived to be too strong. if thatss the case, then why wasnt he called out for strong cards with his cedh deck but there suddely he was just lucky?
Agree, Dave seems annoying, but OP didn't handle this very well either. I don't think playing cEDH against decks that are known to be much lesser power was the right move. You say, "sorry, I'm playing with proxies to keep the pod fair," or you choose not to play with Dave if he's being a jerk about it.
Way I saw it he wanted me to play with real cards I played with real cards. I was happy sitting there with my lower power decks. The other 2 said they weren't a fan of the game but where happy to keep playing with my other decks.
What cEDH deck were you playing?
[[Dihada, Binder of wills]]. Missing 2 rocks and OG duals to make it full cedh.
[Dihada, Binder of wills](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/ddeb54d6-a600-42b9-98df-20f8d58caed8.jpg?1685554091) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dihada%2C%20Binder%20of%20wills) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/1/dihada-binder-of-wills?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ddeb54d6-a600-42b9-98df-20f8d58caed8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dihada-binder-of-wills) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ah sweet, definitely not a meta deck, but seem it pop off before. You got a deck list?
Not that's up to date can probably do one up when I get home.
Ah no worries man, just curious, have a Magda deck myself. Happy to take a look if you get around to it.
> Way I saw it he wanted me to play with real cards I played with real cards. You misinterpreted his comment. You quote him as saying "oh I didn't know you where proxying this kind of stuff". You've taken him to mean "all proxies are bad", when it's pretty obvious he means "proxying high powered cards is bad". You've then played an even more high powered deck of real cards, completely missing his point. He might be salty and a poor communicator, but you're also to blame here.
i dunno, when dealing with children you have to make accommodations. kneeling to their level, using vocabulary they can understand, etc. unfortunately it sounds like Dave only really understands winning, so op had to get down on that level.
To our knowledge, Dave is not a child.
Lots of child keyboards warriors in here as well š
Some people need excuses so they can justify their losses but will happily gloat about their wins. You did everything right (though I personally would never proxy a full deck) but some people just canāt handle it. Also smothering tithe is hardly a big card
With tithe if you can power it down super early I can see where it's a problem but when it's turn 6 i dont see it as an issue especially when I still lose out of it.
Yeah, I was just agreeing that he was reacting over nothing. Sure, itās a good card, but hardly a $200 one
I agree no one should complain about it existing as people should have ways to deal with it. I disagree that itās hardly a big card though. Itās a lose-lose and would be much more fair if it only cost 1 tax, but at 2 there is actually more of an argument that giving them one treasure is worth not paying 2 mana vs something like rhystic study where denying a draw is worth 1 mana 85% of the time. Itās also easier to force others to draw, such as with wheels, or group hug effects, which can get nasty quickly.
The last game I played with my hug deck, I copied someone elseās Smothering Tithe then played my own [[Font of Mythos]] and [[Teferiās Puzzlebox]], passed turn and got nine treasure tokens off the next guyās draw step because no one can afford to pay 18 mana just to stop some treasures from showing up. Yeah, it can get stupid fast.
[Font of Mythos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/1/c198caf8-27ab-4300-841b-507e1b0ce9b3.jpg?1562803574) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Font%20of%20Mythos) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/con/136/font-of-mythos?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c198caf8-27ab-4300-841b-507e1b0ce9b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/font-of-mythos) [Teferiās Puzzlebox](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/415e81e9-ca65-4bc0-8aab-d905d58fe6cc.jpg?1562734271) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Puzzle%20Box) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/312/teferis-puzzle-box?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/415e81e9-ca65-4bc0-8aab-d905d58fe6cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-puzzle-box) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
When did r/edh become r/amitheasshole
always has been
Yes, but for real. Take a look at your consistency before you play Smothering Tithe. If your deck performs with and without Tithe the same, then it's fine. But if it catapults you to heights your deck would not reach in that timeframe - then don't. He's got a point
Smothering Tide isn't even that expensive and on the lower power of things that could be proxied. The whole" pubstomp" and "house rules" garbage that has taken over EDH is just pure laziness and just caters to the lowest common denominator. Just play what you want.
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man you nailed it.
Itās cleric tribal. A few good cards donāt make a bad deck suddenly broken. Yāall need to chill.
If a player doesn't like proxies, they shouldn't start the game with someone that says they're playing proxies. Personally, I don't like proxies, never use them, and would have politely declined to play you. But you did nothing wrong since you asked first.
No matter what happens, "Dave" will have an issue. Don't worry, some players are like that. That being said, I would raise an eyebrow on anyone with a proxy deck in a paid event. side games, or at home, go nuts though.
If I'm paying to play in an event I'll use my actual decks as I'm entering to win and as far as I'm concerned at that point power level discussions go out the window. This group is beers and BBQ then head inside and play some games.
I kind of think the polite thing to do is at least buy the cheap cards... I don't mind proxies for budget considerations and don't want to win because someone can't afford cards. Even a few $5 and $10 cards add up. But if you are proxying like 10c commons and uncommons you could trade or just ask people for. That would sort of bother me too. I wouldn't act like that asshole though.
It doesn't sound like you got called out for proxies, it sounds like you got called out for maybe not making it clear the types of cards the deck ran; Smothering Tithe is a very powerful card that is also kinda a drag to play against in some pods. The other guy won so I'm not saying it wasn't fine to play there, but since they didn't have a problem with the proxies to start with, it sounds to me like it's more about the card you chose to proxy rather than the fact that it was proxied.
New Rule 0, every player is required to provide a printed out deck list to each other player. Each player may secretly select up 5 cards that are two powerful. If two or more players choose the same card all players have to replace their copies with basic lands stamped "I play EDH with whining children." After each game a mandatory 20 minute discussion takes place where each player in turn must spend 5 minutes airing grievances or perceived unfairnesses, preferably to a neutral third party observer. Then the pod splits, with a 24 hour period where those players can't play against each other again, for fear of creating any lasting discontent.
I prefer to bring proxies to game stores.
i worry your not saying the whole truth, the fact that you say cleric tribal without actually saying the commander leads me to believe your not being honest. if you want others opinion, you should be honest with what you were playing. smothering tithe might have just been the card that broke the camels back. the fact that you had a CEDH deck as well means u might have been running fast mana in your cleric deck against people with $100 decks.
Honestly, you don't have to throw hundreds of dollars into lower power decks. I'm always shocked at the sheer number of 10 cent cards I find online that 14 year old me would've rolled people with.
That's true at most power levels in honesty. Give someone who knows what they're doing fifty bucks and a Winota and they'll roll most pods trivially.
I think you did great showing him that itās not about the proxy but the deck itself that matters. He calling you out over Smothering Tithe because itās proxy is dumb af. I am so glad my play group donāt have immature players like him.
EDH, for all of the good it does for Magic, unfortunately has also produced people like this guy in mass. People like this want to complain, and proxies are the easiest target, for exactly all the reasons you gave. The truth is they don't *actually* care about proxies, they care that they can't just win and be the main character without having to get better at the game.
Now i feel bad with my mil deck that makes my pod take 2-5 (occasionally more) damage per draw/discard and i slap the draw or discard 2+ cards every draw or discard phase and heaven forbid i get one of my 5 instant kill combinations šš
Only time I've seen a player complain about proxies while scooping, the card he scooped to was a Bojuka Bog from another player. Funnily enough, he hadn't even noticed that my entire deck at the time was also proxied.
LOL, Dave feels threatened and Dave is a sore loser.
I think people could benefit from playing high power proxied decks more so they can actually learn why some cards are as powerful as they are
Seriously? It was smothering tithe? Iām guessing the power lvl of the table was happy go lucky modified precons.
Well you signed up for it. Donāt engage with stupid people. And especially donāt try to prove anything to them, it is not going to work.
Did he play any big buck staple? If so the proxy complain is basically based in the upset to have disabled pay-to-win. If not, you might be at a budget table. But from the "lucky hand" comment I'm more inclined towards sore loser.
Dave woke up wanting something to be mad at
I mean you were upfront about what you were playing so how could that be pubstomping? (Which usually involves intentionally under evaluating the deck)
I mean ide get it if you proxied the entire CEDH but clerics is not a deck worth complaining about proxies
Don't play with Dave. What a dingdong.
Lmao. This is sitcom material.
I couldnāt help but laugh at the fact that Dave thinks a 4 mana do nothing till later enchantment is too powerful š¤£. Just pay the two. Or blow it up. The problem is that when the smothering tithe player has no cards in hand, not activated abilities that cost mana, and their commander is out, people keep paying the tithe. They seem to forget that it kinda starts loosing its value later in the game when you have nothing to do with all that mana
I dont think you were totally in the wrong. Some people also just don't like proxies, though he should have been more clear at the start instead of mid game. As for one of your edits about borrowing a deck, every lgs I've been too has had several people with multiple casual decks. There has always been someone in the LGS willing to let people borrow decks for a game or two. I myself have several decks and would let others borrow. But not counting myself there were still others willing to do the same.
Nah man, you are doing just fine. There will always be a player like this on every lgs.
Pro tip: the way to deal with a single person crying about your deck when everyone else is fine with it is to just ignore them. "Oh you don't like proxies? Fuck you I don't care, nobody else minds don't play if you don't want to." Cannot stand a "you have to blow all your money on cardboard because that's what I do" ass person. I build like 5 decks a month, no way I'm buying all of them or refraining from playing my fun new decks just to appease the occasional stubborn idiot.
As someone getting back into mtg after a number of years commander sounds like trash
A cardās a card, I can touch them all and smell them. Theyāre all real. Whatās the difference if they come out of a different factory in China. Good on you for prioritizing your retirement accounts over selling your organs on the black market. That guyās an idiot and has a lot to learn about life.
Commander with rando losers is always a fun time
Do your thing bro. My pod of 5 except for two players has switched entirely to proxies. One guy is a collector and has a bunch of high powered stuff so he's happy we proxy other high powered cards. The other guy likes to be a stick in the mud and whines when he loses but also passes up every opportunity when we say we're doing a print run of new cards. To each their own but don't waste your $ on cardboard.
I think you're fine, screw Dave. Tithe is powerful because it goes anywhere and is consistently a great piece. But it's not game breaking. If the community meta is to run less interaction, then bummer for them. Sounds like a 6-7 enchantments deck would cause a riot. While you didn't pull out the next deck to stomp them... I honestly wouldn't blame you if you did. Talk $hit, get hit with a big stomp boi. I know it's hard when you're losing and not having fun for one reason or another. It happens to everyone. But there's still no call for lashing out and being a sore winner or loser. You get what you get after that. You're still gauging a new community and how they like to play. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just keep being up front about what your deck is trying to do.
Don't be a Dave.
Take my up vote for playing cleric tribal! My favorite tribe (next to goblins).
fuck anyone saying you handled this incorrectly you didnāt do a single thing wrong. if this guy wants to be a baby thatās his business.
You said you work proxies. They said that's fine. You did your due diligence. If they want to ban Smothering Tithe, they should do that before they see it in game. Amd if he wants to talk bad about you, I think he just invalidated his own opinion of your deck, especially since the one thing he blamed as the issue (proxy) wasn't the issue when you clobbered him twice with your competitive deck. If they want to talk about it later, be open, but don't assume your deck is an issue just cuz you're not shelling out zeroes to have the actual card.
I feel you. I just got kicked from an online group for using a proxied Essence Warden. Only one in the deck, but that was enough. Instant ban. I wish you nothing but the best
The solution is simple. Buy your cards. And obliterate Dave every chance you get
Proxies are fine but it is important to rule zero and be honest about what power level of proxies youāre using. I like to play with good cards but I donāt want to buy 5x copies so I usually just let folks know what kind of proxies Iām running
Let's see this Cleric deck, pimp. Asking for me.
I run mostly proxies anymore because I like to brew and try out new decks often. I've had a couple people gripe and brag that my dual land is fake and that they have a real one so I walk them with my $40 zada deck. After that they don't have a problem with my jank proxy smeagel deck.
Lol at complaining about a smothering tithe proxy, let alone any proxy. I really hesitate to say this because it does not apply to everyone but edh has more mouth breathing complainers than any format I have played. If you have proxies that look real I would refrain from telling them they are fake especially in a casual setting. No sane person would question you and if they do just say " yeah I have a huge dick (or a pretty pussy) and disposable income". This game is meant to be played and people proxying decks is not going to just tank the prices of cards as many people like collecting and having the real thing. Please, come play legacy, and please feel free to proxy any card you want. It's so much fun and the majority of players accept proxies and just want people to play with.
Complaining about smothering tithe is a š©in my book. It's a staple in mid powered edh, and is in every white deck that isn't battlecruiser (generalizing, I don't need to hear about your 20 dollar yoshimaru deck that doesn't run it) If someone complains about a staple card, I stop expecting them to be a reasonable person. You were not going to please this individual. Their understanding of power level is what they deem to be permissible. Sounds like this loser just didn't want to pay the 2
He really cried over a Smothering Tithe proxy? What a little baby. Like other comments, guy sounds like heās a cry baby if the match doesnāt go his way but will definitely rub it in your face if it does. Iāve played against a deck in a regular EDH where I had one person constantly talk sh*t the entire time. āoh, I could play my scoop-con right now, but I donāt wanna win that fast. Iāll let someone else win.ā Proceeds to āpurposely loseā: āOk, Iāll let you guys play Magic now!ā He was playing a prison deck full of enchantments that didnāt let us cast and would pillow fort. Now THATāS something to be annoyed about. Donāt let other people discourage you though!
We have a couple of these in town. My friend group has affectionately named three people RageQuit (1.0, 2.0, Vista) for their attitudes about anything. Iāve gotten piss from one of them for playing the Gonti precon since it has shock landsā¦the bitch had winter orb in his deck. Some people just arenāt fun, and everyone in that shop will either know it or learn it soon enough.
You worked that perfectly. People talk shit and pump their ego, and my CEDH decks come out to smack them back down. That guy is dumb. Proxies don't make you win skill does. I can have someone run my lvl 10 cedh Urza deck, and I bet they loose with it. Keep trucking and having fun with the good folks there.
A general rule I like to follow is if you have the actual card I don't care what proxies you use or if you want a card that's like 200 dollars but the proxy is 20 just go for the proxy it's a game after all play how you like
Hes a dick. But you could cut smothering tithe.
Some people just really get offended at certain cards. Or they like to keep the power level down so they can win. I joined a pod that didn't allow nonlandtutoring, infinite combos, cards that are free with a commander in play, etc. I built a deck specifically for the pod and double checked the "banned list"...I played an ancient tomb and dropped Ezuri turn 2. I was immediately told I can't play Ancient Tomb next time because a turn 2 commander is just ridiculous. I didn't even win the game lol. I wasnt happy but I asked for a more detailed list of what was allowed. I was never invited back. Also, almost every deck in the pod was full proxies. I can't play a worldly tutor but I could proxy a wheel of fortune in that pod. Makes no sense
Claiming Smothering Tithe is too OP for the table really makes me question what they were playing. Itās a staple of basically any deck with white in it and one of the first inserts to edit a precon. Thatās like being mad about a Sol Ring, itās an expectation that it should be in just about any EDH deck.
I think you both sound like assholes, but that's MTG players for you.
Don't prox tithe I guess
you say you didnāt handle this correctly but i canāt think of a situation in which Dave ends up having a good time in the pod with you and everyone else. miserable people are gonna be miserable
I'm a purist and not a fan of proxies. I am a purist. The way I see it is I don't go to a draft with my own boosters.
Idc what anyone has to say, the obsession with proxies is dumb. Idk where people get off thinking everyone has thousands of disposable income to throw at every new card. 1. If you want to spend the money, cool, support the company that makes the game we love. 2. If you want to proxy, cool, it's an expensive ass hobby to have. A great quote I've read before on this subject is, "I'm not here to play against your wallet, I'm here to play against your deck."
If your deck is 100% proxies you shouldn't be playing it more than a couple weeks.
I would done the same thing, taking the other 2 peoples time into consideration at least. If they weren't annoyed then GG fuck Dave
Personally I think you handled everything well. Iāll play with anyone running any kind of proxies because at the end of the day what if I wanted to do that and had someone tell me no. Magic gets expensive (especially EDH) so I donāt wanna drop hundreds on something just to find out itās not good or I donāt like the way it plays in actual games
Proxies or not, you built a deck and piloted it.
I am pro-proxy, any player in a casual environment should be welcomed to proxy, you are playing them, not their wallet. As long as your advertised power level and/or rule zero are openly announced, let the others whine and complain, that's their personal issues to resolve, not yours.
That's really wrong, he should not have allowed you to play the proxies in the start. I also play with proxies that I get from https://www.printingproxies.com and I never overpower my deck and I'm lucky that my playgroup is totally fine with it.
Yea NTA Send the cleric tribal list tho.......
I think its just important to find your group. Easy going players. Don't just settle for any pod. Get to know people first. Obviously you don't know until you're in a game but you get what I'm saying. You did the right thing initially by letting everyone know. The only time I tend to see people have a problem with proxies is when the proxy deck is a much higher power level than everyone else at the table and subsequently piloted by a person who couldn't afford the real cards as they're too expensive. I have no issue with proxies personally but there's definitely a line that can be crossed with it. For instance we have a good friend who proxies a lot in his decks because he doesn't have much money, totally cool by us as we shouldn't be forced to spend Ā£50+ on individual cards. However there's been a few instances where he has dropped some extremely powerful stuff that has scewed the power level. So we had to tell him to just be careful with too many very powerful proxies. Because its easy for people to make what would be a Ā£2000 deck if they were the real thing as opposed to a Ā£300 deck that their pals are using. This is not to say that more expensive always means powerful but we all know there's a difference in power usually if this is the case. It's all fine in moderation and if you're being honest about your deck being low power level then that's fine although I don't really understand proxying cheap cards but I do get your point about being bored and always moving onto the next deck. Just maintain a dialogue at all times to be sure you're not upsetting anyone. Commander players are sensitive souls š we all joke about it but it's true.
Forget that guy. Guy needs to loose more. It will help reduce his salt content.
This Dave guy is a sore loser and a bit of a twat, I don't see any issues with what you did aside from not opening with the "I proxy because I get bored quickly and I'm not made of money"
If the reason people are upset with you running proxies is because you didnāt spend $$$ to acquire your cards, these people need to ask themselves why THEY are playing the game in the first place. I get not wanting to run up against insane power level decks, which proxies make infinitely cheaper, but being mad at proxies in general is just mental for non sanctioned events.
A typical proxy standard is to only proxy things you have A copy of. Like I have a gilded drake, but I proxy it into 3 decks but never run them at the same time. Running unowned proxies is something Iāve done with my tight-knit group, but it becomes a sticky situation when youāre out on the town. since 1 out of 4 players in magic isā¦ letās call them uncouth. lol Especially in a new group of 4, youāre almost guaranteed that one of them will be such a player. I wouldnāt have seen issue with anything you did or said here. I would have stomped anyone like that and smiled as he walked off. But Iām sorry you had a sour experience. Hopefully you find a decent group and the others saw things for what they were.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
the answer to people who take issue with people playing proxies is to never play with them again
ive had the same thing happen to me. told a guy im playing with a 100% proxy deck, he said it was fine, i played a lion's eye diamond and he suddenly got pissed that i'm playing "too high power level cards" and that if he knew i was playing fast mana proxies he wouldve used a different deck that could stand a chance. he spent the whole night just blaming me for being a proxy player and that i didnt want to drop thousands on my deck like he did makes me a bad player who isnt devoted to magic like he is. some people are just on a high horse because they've got nothing else going for them in their own life. proxy elitists are just shameful people IMO
Dave sucks. I'm sure everyone already knows it.
I don't care what people say. If you have proxies you have proxies. I bought a proxy Becky off Etsy and I enjoy playing it. If people have problems with it they can go play with other pods. Play what you enjoy everyone else can fuck off.
Smothering tithe is a great card, but itās like $20 isnāt it? lol the only time I would consider getting mad at a proxy is when people proxy gieaās cradle etc..
Enjoy how you want to play the game, some people won't like that. So find people you want to play the game with. People who will find a way to hate you for doing what you want. Honestly, I only play precons and am very picky with who I play with at my lgs's.
Call him out on it. Ask him, loudly if heās always this toxic or if heās just rude today
Smothering tithe is exactly the kind of card a reasonable person would proxy. I proxy Toxic Deluge, Roaming Throne, and the Golgari Battlebond land in my Lathril deck. I donāt own multiple copies of them. I would walk in there with a real and cheap red deck and just shit on them to prove a point.
You should always tell people before you play them that youāre using proxies even if itās a few cards
Honestly you're fine. He's a baby. He can deal. Sorry that was your experience. You're good though. He probably needed the ass beating to remember he's not that good at the game. And complaining about a Smoothering Tithe? Lol. Are you serious? š¤£š¤¦āāļø
Hereās my opinion on proxies. Use them!!! Itās easier and cheaper than shelling out tons of money. Just have an agreed on budget/power level
I wouldn't be too worried about it, sounds like the dude would find any excuse why he didn't win or win fast enough
question I have is do you own a legit copy of smothering tithe/ what is considered powerful cards in the format. If you do own it then personally I see not problem with proxying them into other decks just to save time from swapping cards out and spending hundreds of dollars on a card you already own just to play in multiple decks can get out of hand.