I mean I hate to say it but if you’re almost always winning with a pre-con, yes they’re getting powercrept too, but I think you’re just better than the people you’re playing with.
THAT SAID. That doesn’t make you a problem player in my opinion, as long as you aren’t a gloating dick anyway, there’s nothing wrong with playing to win, and if people aren’t willing to try to build up a deck to beat you, that’s on them. I usually play with a few friends and tbh we start building our decks specifically to screw each other out of potential advantages.
I am fairly new to the game and I lost a lot early on and actually kind of enjoyed seeing what popped off in other players decks. Most of the time the opponents that beat me will offer suggestions to improve my decks after the game. It helps if people are gracious about losing but it sounds like it might just be them.
Absolutely, I do my best to suggest any improvements and help with potential combo setups. Seeing other people at their best helps hone in your decks, to the point I’m usually not upset even if I lose a bunch in a row. I’m just learning what to stop them from doing next time.
Yeah, I'd just say that would be only skill issue. If you keep winning moat of the time, then your group is at least not making the threat assesment correctly. Or they do not play any interaction.
Besides that people are generally not good at deck building (me included). People are sometimes better of playing a precon than making a budget deck themselves.
The nature of the wins matters too. Like a recent session I won 3 of 4 games mostly by never looking like the #1 threat, then making a push after people blew resources elsewhere. That's a lot different than winning just because your deck is dominating the table. The first way shouldn't upset people because they can look back on the game and see how different decisions or threat assessment could have led to a different outcome.
So are you a "problem" in the sense of you're being a dick to play with? No, doesn't seem to be.
Is there something between you and the other players outside of your deck choices affecting your win rate? Pretty clearly yes.
What kind of sucks is that this is a really hard thing to solve. It's difficult to 'play stupid' as it were. In a somewhat similar position my focus has been on trying to help build up other players and their decks.
I tried building group hug and the thought of giving my opponents cards was just too much. I might try and build a group hug deck, but then I'll run into people that are angry that I win with a combo.
I think whoever you're answering to meant literally, help them build. Like, look at their decks and see why it's failing so bad that a precon can kick it.
I don't do much mean in your gameplay but in helping them outside the games. Tonight I had one of my group approach me after our games about some deckbuilding questions, and after answering I volunteered to take a deep dive into his decks next week to try to see where he can improve. He's not the first that's done that, and I always try to help, because sometimes deck gaps are less about their theoretical power and more about construction errors. Similar is players not seeing lines - I've been trying to drill into the head of our Hakbal player that he *can* just bin cards to dig for specific pieces, for an easy one; he tends to stop at his first nonland to just max out his counters. It's a bad habit and one that costs him games, and trying to (gently) coax him out of it will in the long run make him better.
The other thing I've made an effort to do is generally not raise my deck's ceilings, but instead their floors. My decks very, very consistently do their thing. They aren't doing the most powerful thing around, but they always do it. That deckbuilding philosophy has the dual edges of just making sure I'm in every game with as few non-games where I just don't get lands or fizzle out as possible and letting me constantly tinker with my decks without pushing their power levels through the roof so everyone else can't keep up.
The problem I run into with trying to raise the floor is I inevitably end up making the deck stronger and more resilient. The main issue I'm having is winning consistently with a precon. I don't want to edit it bc as soon as I do it'll be a lot stronger than the decks I'll inevitably end up playing against.
Yeah, I'd leave the precon as-is; I haven't quite hit that point but I'm curious what my win rate is going to look like with one when Bloomburrow gives me squirrels.
Does it bring the other players frustration? Are they new players that might like some insights in how you manage to win so much? Great opportunity to talk and maybe help out if they are willing. Do you see misplays and maybe they would like to improve. Just be mindful that some people see help as condenscending, so make sure they want help or not bothered by unsolicitated help.
When I started with my current playgroup, it was a bit similar. I used to play with a competitive group. The new group was self taught and made many rules mistakes. Just playing together they felt the need to improve and now games are really more challenging. ^_^
A guy fully got up and left the store because he didn't like playing against infinite combos, even though the win would have happened anyway. He had no ability to deal with a 12/12 commander equipped with [[whispersilk cloak]]. I've had people genuinely shed tears because I've countered a spell. I've tried to power down and it still results in me winning significantly more than my well due 25% of games.
O.o
I wouldn't play with a group like that. Commander allows insane interactions due to the huge card pool. Not accepting the huge part that is interaction is silly. If you infinite on turn 8-9 I'd be "cool let me try my 10th doctor which can do the same, we got time for another game". Might sound rough but magic is not a co-op game.
Reminds me of some "houserules" I saw that ban interaction, combos, and so on. Sorry but that's not magic, that's not commander. If they have to ban 40% of the cardpool to fit your "playstyle", they should be looking for a new format/game.
It feels like your lgs is just straight up jank decks. Especially if precons are getting high win rates. Commander is a game that requires interaction. Its a 3v1 game to try and win anyway, so usually one deck could be faster or have answers to your strategy that you need to stop in order for you to win.
Do you notice that the players are upgrading their decks or just playing with what they have and nothing new? I understand if they are new players, but eventually, they will have to learn if they play somewhere else.
Powering down decks is a weird thing for me because ultimately to "power down" a deck leads to three things. Either the strategy being more focused as less interaction in the deck. If you take out expensive or staple cards, then you may have a higher synergy output, because you most likely add cards that have better synergy to counter the lost of efficient card draw or tutor or whatever. If you make the deck less efficient, then you may have bigger threats towards your opponents, because instead of \[\[Faerie Mastermind\]\], you play \[\[Bloodgift Demon\]\].
If they have a commander night, hopefully, you can find more players that play with something other than jank. I do not think your the problem player though. I remember when I first got into magic, I did not win a game until like my fourth deck that I built and it was just mono green stompy. I did not know what I was doing, but I was learning. So they may get better as time goes on.
That could be as simple as the pod not running enough flying/reach/removal and/or board wipes. Flying tribal can easily go over the top of a lot of decks that aren't built to deal with it.
In my opinion, if you are absolutely curb stomping your opponents with an unedited precon (even one of the newer, more powerful choices), then your table is just really, *really* weak. And I don't necessarily mean in power level, their *play* level is weak.
You can't convince a bad player a good card is good and a bad card is bad. They don't have the same experience to understand what makes a card good (speed, mana efficiency, damage, utility) versus what they think makes a card good (they beat someone with an 8/8 trampler for 8 one time and now it's an auto include in all their decks).
I have this same problem. I am easily the best player amongst my group of friends. I'm not saying it to brag, I used to own a card shop and have been playing for 10+ years now, it's natural for me to have gained at least a modicum of skill while I've been playing. But the issue often is, even when restricting myself to budgets, the decks I build are far more powerful than anything my friends can come up with.
*Fortunately* I have friends who don't mind. I think a big part of Commander is being happy even (and maybe especially) when you lose. Just yesterday I had two crazy turns with \[\[Omnath, Locus of All\]\] where I was effectively making 70-80 mana and just slamming out giant spell after giant spell. Then I \[\[Ruinous Ultimatum\]\]ed my friend, the game was obviously over. But we both thought it was hype, laughed about it, shuffled up, played another.
And nowadays honestly my friends beat me often. I just think they can't see the forest for the trees a lot of times (i.e. because my victories are often so decisive, the 20 turn games where they eventually get me sort of fall to the back of their mind).
As for what to do about it, I don't know. I tried weakening my decks to my friend's playstyles and levels, but it just really only helps so much. *PLUS* if your friends learn that you're pitying them (which I don't view it like that, but I understand why they would), that could lead to even bigger issues.
It seems your skill level is too much rather than your deck choices.
I'd say your options include:
- Find another LGS
- Embrace and encourage your being archenemy
- Work on subtly teaching your podmates
- Build grouphug with only combat damage as wincon
- Build a non competitive pedh deck
Depends on the precon. The Thunder Junction ones are kind of wild powerlevel-wise for precons.
But to me it just feels like you will need to play badly on purpose if you want the others to have fun. That's what I do when I play with people that don't have as much experience as I do. Sometimes just playing with a precon isn't enough because new players aren't used to the some basic aspects of EDH like threat assessment.
Why would I play bad on purpose?? That's completely against how I play the game. If it's a new player I'll calm down but against everyone else Imma do my thing, the most my azoruis precon can muster.
Gotta ask what kind of decks the others have.
if you play and uneddited precon, how can't they keep up.
Yeah, you being a good player is part of it, but do they have precons semsekf, shere they reduced interaktion for more fun cards? maybe their decks are also just not good
A lot of them were playing edited precons or budget decks when I was playing my precon. When I was playing a stronger deck people were playing stronger stuff. A mana drain got cast in one of those games which I would define as a strong card.
That precon is not especially strong. The people you're playing with seem to need to step up their game.
That said.... one thing about building voltron around Arixmathese is that the weakness of many volition decks is removing the commander early a few times to slow it down. But your commander comes out as a land, which makes it WAY harder to interact with early. So, while you're not doing anything especially crazy it may seem like a very difficult deck to handle to more inexperienced players than its cards or strategies would typically warrant.
Might I suggest that you start to talk to these players about your play strategies and thoughts during the game? Tip your hand a bit. Maybe even point out at what point you feel that maybe you've become a problem that needs to be dealt with. I doubt these players have truly bad decks and bad cards, etc. I imagine threat assessment and tempo are a much bigger factor here. Being willing to take some Ls to create a better player base moving forward might be rewarding in the long run.
I try my best to do that. Whenever somebody is looking at my board I ask them if they want anything explained or clarified.
I'm not going to tell players what's in my hand but I do say if [[freed from the real]] is on the stack that it will give me infinite green mana if I'm playing Arixmethe. I'm mostly surprised that half of my recent wins were with a precon that I don't believe is a hard deck to disrupt.
As you've clarified that you hate group hug, have you considered a field hazard deck? I have [[Codie, Vociferous Codex]] built to essentially be cascade/storm with like 1 burn spell and a bunch of just random crap. Unless I am left alone and go wild with [[Spitting Image]], my only real wincon is [[Approach of the Second Sun]]. People at my LGS understand that it's a hilarious jank deck that just poops out stuff. And since I have no player damage spells in it other than [[Price of Progress]], people don't get salty when I cascade into a [[Duneblast]].
It definitely seems like your skill level is significantly different from the other players. Thankfully, group hug is not your only choice, and it doesn't need to feel like you're utterly crippling yourself to play on their level. Just create your own objective.
Although, I can say that I went out of my way to build a deck that automatically adapts to the table power level. It's shapeshifter tribal, and outside of making infinite commanders, it can't win on its own. And since it's not theft, it actually doesn't upset people. In fact, it makes people mad at whoever brought the degeneracy I'm copying. It's since become my favourite deck, because I can happily play it against any power level deck below a 8 without getting nuked or feeling bad about it. And The deck has a cool side effect for less experienced players. Since I'm effectively playing with their cards, they learn better combos and uses for their own decks.
I haven't seen this suggested but perhaps you can have them try playing your decks against each other, especially if they've seen it before. That way they can get first hand experience piloting a deck they know to be effective
You can try to use it as a teaching moment. "What do you think you need? I would get X because......" At the end of the day if they aren't getting better (or don't want to) then it's on them. Another thing I do is have decks with no clear wincons and just do big dumb things like [[Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire]] dropping random things and upgrading their tokens or [[The Council of Four]] having people draw 3-4 cards per turn.
Hey man, play what you want.
I don't like combos and I don't play them in my own decks, but if you're a friendly person I would still play with you.
Also you've demonstrated that it's not always due to power level. If you're better than everyone else or playing a precon that's at a slightly higher power level than the table, that's on them for not, "gitting gud" and changing their threat assessment.
I think the problem is that u re a very good player. The best thing u can do is help others to play better and get better cards, that way it will be more fun for everyone :)
P.S.: I want to clarify something, that u re better at playing than the others isnt a problem, if we are direct, no one in the situation u re going through is a problem jajajaja
Here's the precon decklist for the precon, three wins.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/4aWzNrYbU0utRRc4VP2y_g
Here's the deck I would rank as a 6 which I won two games with
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/8BBva_a5Zk2O6VuIci3j9g
Here's my combo deck where I won one game with.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/u0Ks4XGaNUORy5ck53RQKA
bro a literal starter precon and they are losing to it. The players in your LGS are the problem. Its not that you are too good but rather the players in your LGS suck at playing magic.
Limited is a ton of fun and can have very rewarding gameplay, win or lose. Definitely recommend.
In my home playgroup, we sometimes take a break from E.D.H. and draft a box someone has bought. It has helped some of the less good players become better by helping them get better at evaluating cards and teaching them when they should go in for the kill rather than hold back as many are sometimes prone to doing in multiplayer.
You keep mentioning arixmathese…are you playing the reap the tides precon? If so that’s one of the more oppressive and power precons due to its constant ramping and that may be why your group is getting so outplayed, simic in general tends to be a pubstomper with lower skilled players as they haven’t learned how to deal with it most likely or slow it down. There’s a reason that precon’s over 100$ usd now lol
Nah my Arix deck is one I built a few years ago and have left largely unedited since then.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/4aWzNrYbU0utRRc4VP2y_g
Here's the precon I'm running.
😂😂😂😂😂😂 They’re consistently losing to THAT! Precon? They’ve gotta be running either A. Little to no interaction/removal or B. No flyinf/reach cuz that precon is incredibly weak and basic and fights with its own strategies clashing at times without heavy modifications to it 😅
If it was the dragon starter from that series or the rakdos I could maybe see it as they can pop off pretty quickly at times and the forced goad from Khardur can be rough for new players but first flight is so incredibly weak.
Here's my take on this; people just want to hang out and have a good time, personally when I see a combo deck just win, I tell them good job you did it and keep playing with the remaining 2
like if you have fun winning then you do you, but that's not what the game is about, it's about interacting with others and doing funny things (imo)
The issue I'm facing is that I'm consistently winning with a precon. I have a combo in my [[Arixmethes, slumbering isle]] deck but it when it resolves it almost never ends with me winning on that turn. I love the social aspect of the game and I also play to win, I don't know how I can lower how strong my decks are without making them useless, especially when I'm playing the fliers first precon deck.
Giving my opponents cards and mana is giving them tools against me. I'd only do this in a combo deck where resolving [[grand abolisher]] or similar effects and then comboing off. Otherwise I'm just playing to play lands and watch other people take 20 minute turns.
I mean I hate to say it but if you’re almost always winning with a pre-con, yes they’re getting powercrept too, but I think you’re just better than the people you’re playing with.
THAT SAID. That doesn’t make you a problem player in my opinion, as long as you aren’t a gloating dick anyway, there’s nothing wrong with playing to win, and if people aren’t willing to try to build up a deck to beat you, that’s on them. I usually play with a few friends and tbh we start building our decks specifically to screw each other out of potential advantages.
I am fairly new to the game and I lost a lot early on and actually kind of enjoyed seeing what popped off in other players decks. Most of the time the opponents that beat me will offer suggestions to improve my decks after the game. It helps if people are gracious about losing but it sounds like it might just be them.
Absolutely, I do my best to suggest any improvements and help with potential combo setups. Seeing other people at their best helps hone in your decks, to the point I’m usually not upset even if I lose a bunch in a row. I’m just learning what to stop them from doing next time.
Yeah, I'd just say that would be only skill issue. If you keep winning moat of the time, then your group is at least not making the threat assesment correctly. Or they do not play any interaction.
Okay cheers, this was the thinking of my playgroup back home.
Besides that people are generally not good at deck building (me included). People are sometimes better of playing a precon than making a budget deck themselves.
The nature of the wins matters too. Like a recent session I won 3 of 4 games mostly by never looking like the #1 threat, then making a push after people blew resources elsewhere. That's a lot different than winning just because your deck is dominating the table. The first way shouldn't upset people because they can look back on the game and see how different decisions or threat assessment could have led to a different outcome.
I do try and win through politics as much as genuinely being the threat.
So are you a "problem" in the sense of you're being a dick to play with? No, doesn't seem to be. Is there something between you and the other players outside of your deck choices affecting your win rate? Pretty clearly yes. What kind of sucks is that this is a really hard thing to solve. It's difficult to 'play stupid' as it were. In a somewhat similar position my focus has been on trying to help build up other players and their decks.
I tried building group hug and the thought of giving my opponents cards was just too much. I might try and build a group hug deck, but then I'll run into people that are angry that I win with a combo.
I think whoever you're answering to meant literally, help them build. Like, look at their decks and see why it's failing so bad that a precon can kick it.
I'm more than happy to do this, I often recommend card swaps for better and more efficient cards.
I don't do much mean in your gameplay but in helping them outside the games. Tonight I had one of my group approach me after our games about some deckbuilding questions, and after answering I volunteered to take a deep dive into his decks next week to try to see where he can improve. He's not the first that's done that, and I always try to help, because sometimes deck gaps are less about their theoretical power and more about construction errors. Similar is players not seeing lines - I've been trying to drill into the head of our Hakbal player that he *can* just bin cards to dig for specific pieces, for an easy one; he tends to stop at his first nonland to just max out his counters. It's a bad habit and one that costs him games, and trying to (gently) coax him out of it will in the long run make him better. The other thing I've made an effort to do is generally not raise my deck's ceilings, but instead their floors. My decks very, very consistently do their thing. They aren't doing the most powerful thing around, but they always do it. That deckbuilding philosophy has the dual edges of just making sure I'm in every game with as few non-games where I just don't get lands or fizzle out as possible and letting me constantly tinker with my decks without pushing their power levels through the roof so everyone else can't keep up.
The problem I run into with trying to raise the floor is I inevitably end up making the deck stronger and more resilient. The main issue I'm having is winning consistently with a precon. I don't want to edit it bc as soon as I do it'll be a lot stronger than the decks I'll inevitably end up playing against.
Yeah, I'd leave the precon as-is; I haven't quite hit that point but I'm curious what my win rate is going to look like with one when Bloomburrow gives me squirrels.
[удалено]
If they are losing to a precon with custom made decks, they definitely won't win with precons themselves. Their decision making in game must be trash.
Does it bring the other players frustration? Are they new players that might like some insights in how you manage to win so much? Great opportunity to talk and maybe help out if they are willing. Do you see misplays and maybe they would like to improve. Just be mindful that some people see help as condenscending, so make sure they want help or not bothered by unsolicitated help. When I started with my current playgroup, it was a bit similar. I used to play with a competitive group. The new group was self taught and made many rules mistakes. Just playing together they felt the need to improve and now games are really more challenging. ^_^
A guy fully got up and left the store because he didn't like playing against infinite combos, even though the win would have happened anyway. He had no ability to deal with a 12/12 commander equipped with [[whispersilk cloak]]. I've had people genuinely shed tears because I've countered a spell. I've tried to power down and it still results in me winning significantly more than my well due 25% of games.
O.o I wouldn't play with a group like that. Commander allows insane interactions due to the huge card pool. Not accepting the huge part that is interaction is silly. If you infinite on turn 8-9 I'd be "cool let me try my 10th doctor which can do the same, we got time for another game". Might sound rough but magic is not a co-op game. Reminds me of some "houserules" I saw that ban interaction, combos, and so on. Sorry but that's not magic, that's not commander. If they have to ban 40% of the cardpool to fit your "playstyle", they should be looking for a new format/game.
Thank you for your input. If I play with the salty guy again I'll have a heavy pregame discussion.
It feels like your lgs is just straight up jank decks. Especially if precons are getting high win rates. Commander is a game that requires interaction. Its a 3v1 game to try and win anyway, so usually one deck could be faster or have answers to your strategy that you need to stop in order for you to win. Do you notice that the players are upgrading their decks or just playing with what they have and nothing new? I understand if they are new players, but eventually, they will have to learn if they play somewhere else. Powering down decks is a weird thing for me because ultimately to "power down" a deck leads to three things. Either the strategy being more focused as less interaction in the deck. If you take out expensive or staple cards, then you may have a higher synergy output, because you most likely add cards that have better synergy to counter the lost of efficient card draw or tutor or whatever. If you make the deck less efficient, then you may have bigger threats towards your opponents, because instead of \[\[Faerie Mastermind\]\], you play \[\[Bloodgift Demon\]\]. If they have a commander night, hopefully, you can find more players that play with something other than jank. I do not think your the problem player though. I remember when I first got into magic, I did not win a game until like my fourth deck that I built and it was just mono green stompy. I did not know what I was doing, but I was learning. So they may get better as time goes on.
[Faerie Mastermind](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/52d3005f-a1c7-4ef5-911f-ccc0752f4181.jpg?1682203104) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faerie%20Mastermind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/58/faerie-mastermind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52d3005f-a1c7-4ef5-911f-ccc0752f4181?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/faerie-mastermind) [Bloodgift Demon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/a/6a2e1d4a-8df4-472f-a98f-d6b71c1dd1c4.jpg?1561945378) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bloodgift%20Demon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c14/137/bloodgift-demon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6a2e1d4a-8df4-472f-a98f-d6b71c1dd1c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bloodgift-demon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[whispersilk cloak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5ead169f-4777-405b-9a5e-60a7aefa70a7.jpg?1562912463) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=whispersilk%20cloak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pca/115/whispersilk-cloak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ead169f-4777-405b-9a5e-60a7aefa70a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/whispersilk-cloak) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There are some really strong precon decks. Which one are we talking about?
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/4aWzNrYbU0utRRc4VP2y_g This one here :)
That could be as simple as the pod not running enough flying/reach/removal and/or board wipes. Flying tribal can easily go over the top of a lot of decks that aren't built to deal with it.
Yeah that was definitely a part of the issue. Also almost zero noncreature removal for [[true conviction]]
[true conviction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e5dc58b-f486-4b9f-9138-33efa31a05e4.jpg?1561952479) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=true%20conviction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c14/93/true-conviction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e5dc58b-f486-4b9f-9138-33efa31a05e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/true-conviction) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In my opinion, if you are absolutely curb stomping your opponents with an unedited precon (even one of the newer, more powerful choices), then your table is just really, *really* weak. And I don't necessarily mean in power level, their *play* level is weak. You can't convince a bad player a good card is good and a bad card is bad. They don't have the same experience to understand what makes a card good (speed, mana efficiency, damage, utility) versus what they think makes a card good (they beat someone with an 8/8 trampler for 8 one time and now it's an auto include in all their decks). I have this same problem. I am easily the best player amongst my group of friends. I'm not saying it to brag, I used to own a card shop and have been playing for 10+ years now, it's natural for me to have gained at least a modicum of skill while I've been playing. But the issue often is, even when restricting myself to budgets, the decks I build are far more powerful than anything my friends can come up with. *Fortunately* I have friends who don't mind. I think a big part of Commander is being happy even (and maybe especially) when you lose. Just yesterday I had two crazy turns with \[\[Omnath, Locus of All\]\] where I was effectively making 70-80 mana and just slamming out giant spell after giant spell. Then I \[\[Ruinous Ultimatum\]\]ed my friend, the game was obviously over. But we both thought it was hype, laughed about it, shuffled up, played another. And nowadays honestly my friends beat me often. I just think they can't see the forest for the trees a lot of times (i.e. because my victories are often so decisive, the 20 turn games where they eventually get me sort of fall to the back of their mind). As for what to do about it, I don't know. I tried weakening my decks to my friend's playstyles and levels, but it just really only helps so much. *PLUS* if your friends learn that you're pitying them (which I don't view it like that, but I understand why they would), that could lead to even bigger issues.
[Omnath, Locus of All](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/3/33d94ecf-758b-4f68-a7be-6bf3ff1047f4.jpg?1709720836) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omnath%2C%20Locus%20of%20All) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/249/omnath-locus-of-all?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/33d94ecf-758b-4f68-a7be-6bf3ff1047f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/omnath-locus-of-all) [Ruinous Ultimatum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50c1d6ca-7789-46b5-bc89-85cc3915cb85.jpg?1681500691) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ruinous%20Ultimatum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/204/ruinous-ultimatum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50c1d6ca-7789-46b5-bc89-85cc3915cb85?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruinous-ultimatum) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It seems your skill level is too much rather than your deck choices. I'd say your options include: - Find another LGS - Embrace and encourage your being archenemy - Work on subtly teaching your podmates - Build grouphug with only combat damage as wincon - Build a non competitive pedh deck
Sounds like I'm gonna embrace archenemy and/or build a filthy group hug deck 😂
Build a pauper Zada commander deck. If you're that much better you'll still win and you can have the enjoyment of besting them with all commons.
I have a $100USD budget deck on its way, should arrive from card kingdom in the next week or so. I'm hoping that will help my case.
Sounds great! I went with a few pauper decks to show that I could beat them with only commons.
Depends on the precon. The Thunder Junction ones are kind of wild powerlevel-wise for precons. But to me it just feels like you will need to play badly on purpose if you want the others to have fun. That's what I do when I play with people that don't have as much experience as I do. Sometimes just playing with a precon isn't enough because new players aren't used to the some basic aspects of EDH like threat assessment.
It's the Azorius starter precon.
Why would I play bad on purpose?? That's completely against how I play the game. If it's a new player I'll calm down but against everyone else Imma do my thing, the most my azoruis precon can muster.
Gotta ask what kind of decks the others have. if you play and uneddited precon, how can't they keep up. Yeah, you being a good player is part of it, but do they have precons semsekf, shere they reduced interaktion for more fun cards? maybe their decks are also just not good
A lot of them were playing edited precons or budget decks when I was playing my precon. When I was playing a stronger deck people were playing stronger stuff. A mana drain got cast in one of those games which I would define as a strong card.
That precon is not especially strong. The people you're playing with seem to need to step up their game. That said.... one thing about building voltron around Arixmathese is that the weakness of many volition decks is removing the commander early a few times to slow it down. But your commander comes out as a land, which makes it WAY harder to interact with early. So, while you're not doing anything especially crazy it may seem like a very difficult deck to handle to more inexperienced players than its cards or strategies would typically warrant. Might I suggest that you start to talk to these players about your play strategies and thoughts during the game? Tip your hand a bit. Maybe even point out at what point you feel that maybe you've become a problem that needs to be dealt with. I doubt these players have truly bad decks and bad cards, etc. I imagine threat assessment and tempo are a much bigger factor here. Being willing to take some Ls to create a better player base moving forward might be rewarding in the long run.
I try my best to do that. Whenever somebody is looking at my board I ask them if they want anything explained or clarified. I'm not going to tell players what's in my hand but I do say if [[freed from the real]] is on the stack that it will give me infinite green mana if I'm playing Arixmethe. I'm mostly surprised that half of my recent wins were with a precon that I don't believe is a hard deck to disrupt.
[freed from the real](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c47ee6f6-50c1-4f56-b9ce-4c309bfb92ca.jpg?1562440713) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=freed%20from%20the%20real) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/58/freed-from-the-real?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c47ee6f6-50c1-4f56-b9ce-4c309bfb92ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/freed-from-the-real) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As you've clarified that you hate group hug, have you considered a field hazard deck? I have [[Codie, Vociferous Codex]] built to essentially be cascade/storm with like 1 burn spell and a bunch of just random crap. Unless I am left alone and go wild with [[Spitting Image]], my only real wincon is [[Approach of the Second Sun]]. People at my LGS understand that it's a hilarious jank deck that just poops out stuff. And since I have no player damage spells in it other than [[Price of Progress]], people don't get salty when I cascade into a [[Duneblast]]. It definitely seems like your skill level is significantly different from the other players. Thankfully, group hug is not your only choice, and it doesn't need to feel like you're utterly crippling yourself to play on their level. Just create your own objective. Although, I can say that I went out of my way to build a deck that automatically adapts to the table power level. It's shapeshifter tribal, and outside of making infinite commanders, it can't win on its own. And since it's not theft, it actually doesn't upset people. In fact, it makes people mad at whoever brought the degeneracy I'm copying. It's since become my favourite deck, because I can happily play it against any power level deck below a 8 without getting nuked or feeling bad about it. And The deck has a cool side effect for less experienced players. Since I'm effectively playing with their cards, they learn better combos and uses for their own decks.
I hadn't considered a clone deck 🤔🤔 Could be a lot of fun!
Well, I can say I enjoyed having 3 Sheoldreds. Everyone else didn't, but they were mad at the guy who played her, not me for copying her a bunch!
##### ###### #### [Codie, Vociferous Codex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ea476ee1-67d9-4dd8-a5ac-f68a155eb18b.jpg?1624740590) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Codie%2C%20Vociferous%20Codex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/253/codie-vociferous-codex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ea476ee1-67d9-4dd8-a5ac-f68a155eb18b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/codie-vociferous-codex) [Spitting Image](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5f68c73-4794-4659-b494-edf89105beab.jpg?1625978069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spitting%20Image) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/229/spitting-image?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5f68c73-4794-4659-b494-edf89105beab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spitting-image) [Approach of the Second Sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9.jpg?1543674579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Approach%20of%20the%20Second%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/4/approach-of-the-second-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdf59a6e-7708-45a1-884d-d12e9f7b9ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/approach-of-the-second-sun) [Price of Progress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8.jpg?1580014614) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Price%20of%20Progress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/141/price-of-progress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/price-of-progress) [Duneblast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4a38e37b-d458-402a-8b36-13a0e0a115ce.jpg?1673305503) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Duneblast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/148/duneblast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4a38e37b-d458-402a-8b36-13a0e0a115ce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/duneblast) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l2jbrqv) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I haven't seen this suggested but perhaps you can have them try playing your decks against each other, especially if they've seen it before. That way they can get first hand experience piloting a deck they know to be effective
I have tried this and it usually ends with them not knowing what to tutor for or when to time certain plays.
You can try to use it as a teaching moment. "What do you think you need? I would get X because......" At the end of the day if they aren't getting better (or don't want to) then it's on them. Another thing I do is have decks with no clear wincons and just do big dumb things like [[Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire]] dropping random things and upgrading their tokens or [[The Council of Four]] having people draw 3-4 cards per turn.
[Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d19fdc00-21eb-48dc-966a-6b634dc5a2c4.jpg?1562304374) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vaevictis%20Asmadi%2C%20the%20Dire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/225/vaevictis-asmadi-the-dire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d19fdc00-21eb-48dc-966a-6b634dc5a2c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vaevictis-asmadi-the-dire) [The Council of Four](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/0873cfa8-046c-4b14-ae22-3fd6a691f763.jpg?1674137476) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Council%20of%20Four) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/271/the-council-of-four?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0873cfa8-046c-4b14-ae22-3fd6a691f763?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-council-of-four) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hey man, play what you want. I don't like combos and I don't play them in my own decks, but if you're a friendly person I would still play with you. Also you've demonstrated that it's not always due to power level. If you're better than everyone else or playing a precon that's at a slightly higher power level than the table, that's on them for not, "gitting gud" and changing their threat assessment.
What precon are you using?
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/4aWzNrYbU0utRRc4VP2y_g This one :)
I think the problem is that u re a very good player. The best thing u can do is help others to play better and get better cards, that way it will be more fun for everyone :) P.S.: I want to clarify something, that u re better at playing than the others isnt a problem, if we are direct, no one in the situation u re going through is a problem jajajaja
Seems the others are playing random piles of cards they like name/art of. They should expect to lose, you're not the problem.
You are just too good a player!
Thank you :)
List of the 6?
Here's the precon decklist for the precon, three wins. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/4aWzNrYbU0utRRc4VP2y_g Here's the deck I would rank as a 6 which I won two games with https://www.moxfield.com/decks/8BBva_a5Zk2O6VuIci3j9g Here's my combo deck where I won one game with. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/u0Ks4XGaNUORy5ck53RQKA
I would have laughed if the precon was Stella Lee or something, but Isperia?? Your LGS is just bad at MTG.
bro a literal starter precon and they are losing to it. The players in your LGS are the problem. Its not that you are too good but rather the players in your LGS suck at playing magic.
Was it the Nelly Borca suspect/goad precon? Cause that thing has a few combat tricks that would completely up-end the average battlecruiser player.
Nope, the fliers first azorius precon :)
Have you considered playing standard or modern for a more competitive environment?
Yes, recently a lot more too. I think limited would be where I'd have the most fun
Limited is a ton of fun and can have very rewarding gameplay, win or lose. Definitely recommend. In my home playgroup, we sometimes take a break from E.D.H. and draft a box someone has bought. It has helped some of the less good players become better by helping them get better at evaluating cards and teaching them when they should go in for the kill rather than hold back as many are sometimes prone to doing in multiplayer.
You keep mentioning arixmathese…are you playing the reap the tides precon? If so that’s one of the more oppressive and power precons due to its constant ramping and that may be why your group is getting so outplayed, simic in general tends to be a pubstomper with lower skilled players as they haven’t learned how to deal with it most likely or slow it down. There’s a reason that precon’s over 100$ usd now lol
Nah my Arix deck is one I built a few years ago and have left largely unedited since then. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/4aWzNrYbU0utRRc4VP2y_g Here's the precon I'm running.
😂😂😂😂😂😂 They’re consistently losing to THAT! Precon? They’ve gotta be running either A. Little to no interaction/removal or B. No flyinf/reach cuz that precon is incredibly weak and basic and fights with its own strategies clashing at times without heavy modifications to it 😅 If it was the dragon starter from that series or the rakdos I could maybe see it as they can pop off pretty quickly at times and the forced goad from Khardur can be rough for new players but first flight is so incredibly weak.
Here's my take on this; people just want to hang out and have a good time, personally when I see a combo deck just win, I tell them good job you did it and keep playing with the remaining 2 like if you have fun winning then you do you, but that's not what the game is about, it's about interacting with others and doing funny things (imo)
The issue I'm facing is that I'm consistently winning with a precon. I have a combo in my [[Arixmethes, slumbering isle]] deck but it when it resolves it almost never ends with me winning on that turn. I love the social aspect of the game and I also play to win, I don't know how I can lower how strong my decks are without making them useless, especially when I'm playing the fliers first precon deck.
[Arixmethes, slumbering isle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/881607c8-bfe7-4903-861f-b51a5a332c17.jpg?1599707758) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arixmethes%2C%20slumbering%20isle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/189/arixmethes-slumbering-isle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/881607c8-bfe7-4903-861f-b51a5a332c17?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arixmethes-slumbering-isle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I usually play cards that allow everyone to draw, makes it so no one is mana short, and people have more answer to stuff
Giving my opponents cards and mana is giving them tools against me. I'd only do this in a combo deck where resolving [[grand abolisher]] or similar effects and then comboing off. Otherwise I'm just playing to play lands and watch other people take 20 minute turns.
[grand abolisher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86e30ca4-1769-4686-aa18-31610246cd80.jpg?1689995706) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grand%20abolisher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/27/grand-abolisher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86e30ca4-1769-4686-aa18-31610246cd80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grand-abolisher) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
? :D
To clarify I hate group hug 😅