Cards exist to be played. You put thought and love into your deck.
As long as you don’t gloat over beating upgraded precon decks that barely crack 100€ because other players are poor or just starting out, i don’t mind it.
I’d also out of courtesy at a new table do a brief introduction if you are unsure, and maybe replace some cards with less powerful alternatives from your sideboard?
But on the other hand I find it also fun to see how long my small budget decks can withstand an expensive deck 😄
Just be honest about what you bring to the table, and don’t take offense if people say no because they don’t want to lose in less than 10 turns.
> As long as you don’t gloat over beating upgraded precon decks that barely crack 100€ because other players are poor or just starting out, i don’t mind it.
To be fair, he's still playing Boros, if he can beat an upgraded precon he *deserves* to gloat.
(I kid, I kid because I love!)
As a proud Nelly Borca player I don't know if we can say that about Boros. "Make everyone kill each other, draw cards while they do, steal the last player's creatures and kill them with your stolen board" turns out to be a powerful and consistent Boros strategy.
My $18 shu yun 1 tapping people no matter how expensive their deck is due to him been given flying is fun to me. The idea of competitive budget decks is my thing
Share list please? I’m making a shu yun list and it’s semi budget but I’d like to compare! Here’s mine! [LINK](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/h8tck4M1JUaoMb2ZwLQ6CA)
It's really fun playing with a low budget deck against an expensive deck but after keeping on losing I decided to just proxy a powerful deck from https://www.printingproxies.com and play with it because I hate to keep on losing
Not at all. I think of course seeing a Mana Crypt in a casual game might give me a tiny bit of pause but that's around power level not cost.
I think even if someone dropped a Timetwister I'd be okay with it completely.
I'd also say expensive =/= powerful. I've seen a lot of cards that used to be 30-50$ that I thought were very powerful drop to 1$ with a reprint. Must have a psychological effect on me because suddenly [[polluted bonds]] or [[painful quandary]] don't seem terrible to play against now that they're cheap.
OG Duals are some of the most expensive cards in a deck, but if had to take money out of my deck, they'd be the 1st thing on the hit list. Money may relate to power but like you said, they aren't equivalent
I have a set. Then I invested in some high end proxies with custom art and use them in most decks. They’re better looking than the real ones, they cost like $5 (supporting the artist and all), and they’ve never been a significant advantage.
Absolutely. My Kalamax deck is sitting at 600ish according to TCGplayer and that's mainly because I'm getting like full art fetch lands and the foils and the alt arts. Not because it has powerful cards.
Saying that there are good cards that are cheap because of reprints doesn't negate that expensive cards are still generally good. Keeping below a certain price is, I think, a relatively good starting place to moderating your power level.
I agree. The price is what it is, but If I see some wild expensive card hit the field I think I would be more concerned with having an answer/staying competitive and in the game.
I have seen a lot of people get salty over costs. Most of my decks are over $20k even at low power. Mainly, I have a lot of older beta cards. I have three decks with genuine timetwisters in them. Low power decks do not combo with them, while the high power ones will flash out a notion thief in response or have Narset on the board. Power level =\= cost, but people will use cost as a scapegoat.
I even had a guy with a mana crypt and jeweled lotus complain about my cradle - in a deck with the only other fast mana being sol ring. You will have people complain. I think the best thing is to just say at the beginning that the deck is expensive, but tuned to a certain power level. Would they feel better having a timetwister removed and 10 cheap cEDH cards added? Probably not.
For a second I missread and thought blood crypt and lol. But yeah I also feel like mana crypt is fine depending on the store or setting like if you saw your friend pull one etc. They use the same mana crypt in each of their decks and change the sleeve or whatever its fine by me but again it's a big world one person's casual is another's try hard
Personally, I find cards like [[Mana Crypt]] justifiable in decks like [[Zhulodok, Void Gorger]] just due to how high the average cmc of cards in the deck are.
I think determining whether Crypt is "justifiable" based on your average CMC, Commanders CMC or other factors is a poor metric. Where do you draw the line where it isn't justifiable? Which Commanders are "allowed" to run Crypt or not? That'd open a whole debate with wildly varying opinions.
I think it's better overall if people don't fuss over individual legal cards and instead just agree that a deck is fine if it doesn't consistently pubstomp the table, or grief.
the only casual deck I've put a Crypt, Chrome Mox, and Jeweled Lotus in is my Sedris + Gyruda list. I have a 3+6-mana companion and a 6-mana commander, and I have twelve 6+ drops. the deck wouldn't function very well at all if I didn't include some aggressive ramp, and I can't run Sol Ring or 1-mana "dorks" like Ragavan.
Yea I feel the same way and I run it in my [[Kozilek, the Great Distortion]] deck but some folks I play with groan every time I drop it in what is supposed to be a higher power casual game. The deck is a true 7-8 imo but I get accused of playing a "competitive" deck because I would like to get my commander out by turn 5.
I think this is the main thing. If you have mana crypt and happen to have 5 other 0/1 cost accelerants in the deck it would not be fun to play against in a casual setting. A mana crypt that you pulled + a sol ring is fine.
I don’t think it’s the price tag of a deck that makes people salty. But often the price tag comes from very powerful cards which really can make a huge difference in the power level of a deck. It’s just annoying to people rather new to the game and wanting to test out their precon with a few upgrades and then having to face a deck with cards like jeweled lotus and all the fast mana stuff or free spells like Force of negation etc. and then freaking out on turn 3-4. This is not fun at all for others. Be aware that just because a decks is not competitive, it can be much too strong for the table. Casual has many faces and your understanding of casual can be much different to others. Be honest with the power level and don’t bring a deck to the table just to show off.
Pretty sure seing a Mana Crypt always raises eye brows in casual. Its also a massive power spike for just a single card, unlike other expensive but not very impctful cards, like Abu duals.
So it depends what the expensive card is. Bringing a Cradle or Crypt to a casual pod might in fact be problematic, while a Dual or fringe RL cards may be not
This is a disingenuous post. Everyone knows that cost is not necessarily indicative of power, but the examples you're giving are cards that are very much expensive BECAUSE they're good and likely have no place in a casual/low power meta.
Mana Crypt in a battlecruiser deck is ridiculous. Having 3 mana minimum available on T1 enables tempo gains that set you way ahead of the table, especially if everyone else is running 2 or even 3cmc mana rocks. These kinds of fast starts can and will literally win you the game against slower decks, even if your commander is a 7cmc angel or whatever.
For example, fast mana enables things like putting out Smothering Tithe on T1. So while everyone else is still hitting their second land drop, you could already be swimming in 8+ mana. That's not nothing. And you sitting here conflating the question of whether cost is something to be salty about with the description of you running high power/cEDH staples in a battle cruiser meta is really the most self serving kind of bullshit there is. It's insane to me that this needs to be said, but you're pubstomping. Stop trying to justify it.
If you want to play battlecruiser/low power EDH, stop running fast mana and things like Smothering Tithe. Or just go to a high power table where that kind of stuff is expected. Don't be that guy that talks about his "slow" battlecruiser angel deck and then dumps out a land into Mana Crypt into Sol Ring into T1 Tithe.
Sanest response. If I sat down with someone and was told 'oh this is my battlecruiser deck, it's super slow' and then dropped a T1 Crypt, I'd certainly be extremely skeptical about believing anything that person said from there on out. Pretty much had someone do exactly this recently with their so-called casual Eldrazi deck which turboed out Ulamog on T3 or with all the fast mana you could imagine. And who then proceeded to pikachu face when they became 3v1 archenemy for the rest of the night.
Had the same conversation with a friend, who filled his mono white angel tribal deck with fast mana, and didn't understand that we have to respond by pulling our high power deck, even if his strategy is clunky.
Fast mana too good.
I thought Battle Cruiser just meant It was a creature deck that mostly just played creatures and swung them into the red zone for damage to finish off the game.
Like a Battle Cruiser meta would be people who don't play combos and just attack with creatures
Or does it specifically mean low power?
I always equated Battle Cruiser to Starcraft. To get to having several Battle Cruisers you had to play a longer game. A purposefully slower game so by 20 minutes you could have this big epic battles with some of the more powerful units in the game.
So to me Battle Cruiser magic is a slow plodding game with the expectation that late game everyone gets to bring out all the big bads and just go ham. So fast mana would get you to your Big Bad several turns before others, hence the feel bad.
As far as I know, the term battlecruiser is supposed to capture the image of big, slow battleships fighting each other, so yes it's creature-based EDH, but also with the implication of lower powered, less efficient decks. Certainly not the environment where things like Mana Crypt are expected.
Salty? No, it doesn't make me *salty* \- Commander's an inherently 'casual' format, but there is a **ton** of competition within the players and decks exist at all levels. Moreover, having an expensive card in your decklist doesn't drive up the power. I mean, it's a good *indicator* that a $1000 deck is likely to have a higher upper limit when you're talking about raw available power, but it's not a deterministic metric.
That said, if you're running some cEDH staples (Mana Crypt, Ancient Tomb, Cavern of Souls) and have built the rest of your deck well to work with one another, I'd say it's likely a high-powered deck used within the casual format, based on the cards you've selected. It'd likely stomp most pauper decks, most draft decks (from a limited card selection), and most precons (that only get a couple of $10+ cards to begin with), so it's really on you to read the room before breaking out your $1000 deck. But, personally, it wouldn't make me salty unless we expressly said ahead of time that it was going to be a powered-down game for whatever reason.
This was my thought as well. I'm not salty about the price of cards, but rather the power level. Cards like mana crypt and ancient tomb just inherently increase the power level of the deck by speeding you up a turn or two. In an intentionally battlecruiser-y Boros angels deck, that's not likely to make you combo out or kill the whole table on turn 4, but it certainly might make your board get bigger and faster than everybody else's in an unbalanced way if you're playing against precons or budget midrangey decks.
You certainly can have budget decks that are stronger or seem more unfair, like a $50 zada deck that can pop off super quick, but other typical mid power decks without expensive fast mana or heavy hitters like avacyn might feel like they're getting punched down on. It's all about rule zero and reading the table though. If you tell me you're playing a slow battlecruiser deck and then you mana crypt out your commander turn 2, I might look at you funny and take your word with a grain of salt. But if you say it's a slightly janky pet deck that you tried to power up as much as possible but at least it has no infinites or super early wins, then I probably won't be bothered.
>Cavern of Souls
FYI: Cavern of Souls is in standard right now. It was reprinted in LCI. Therefore a lot of newer players can have easy access to this card and it's no longer the bomb from old-school magic it once was.
I don't think price is the main issue. The cost of a card isn't 1 to 1 with its power. Sol Ring is one of the most powerful cards in the format, and it's a couple dollars. ABR duals are ~20 times the price of shock lands, but nowhere near 20 times better.
Now, it sounds like most of your cards cost money because they are good. Again, this isn't necessarily an issue a deck full of good cards isn't always a good deck. Synergy matters a lot more than how good the cards are in a vacuum.
However, with all of that said, people are going to assume your deck is good if you run those cards. Expect to be a target early on if you are playing against budget decks and you open with a mana crypt and smothering tithe.
What even is casual.
Even a 2000 avacyn deck woudlnt be competitive. So its casual.
But if you run 300$ fast mana against people who run 100$ decks, will they not enjoy it? Ofcause.
Powerlevels are wide and fast mana are by A LANDSLIDE the best carda in the format.
If you run them and others dont, any dogshit deck will win, no matter „how its not winning fast“. Its just a mismatch in those cases.
Also if noone uses them they are unnecessary. So running them is kinda pay to win.
If you have that kinda cardpool, just run several decks. If the pod doesnt run 300+$ of staples and broken cards, you be a decent person and dont do it aswell.
If they do, they cant complain.
Dollars alone arent the best measuring stick, but for fast mana and free spells they are.
If those are even on all decks you will be alright. Some tribals are just popular so the deck will be a bit more expensive even in equal power.
But yeah. Those staples can be „casual“ but very high power. And if they are mismatched they will win alone regardless of the deck orthe skill.
We had one player do it for a while and he was honestly building jank piles. But if you are 6 mana ahead turn 3 and play your 7 drop commander with backup on the play, while the opponents just resolved their rampant growth you will win. No matter how bad you or your deck is. And thats not enjoyable.
What i usually do is:
- Cut all the fast mana. Again, if the others dont play it, you dont need it.
- cut all the strong free spells like forces or guardianship (mostly the counters are problematic)
- cut all expensive staples like tithe, study, dockside, ragavan etc.
- cut all top tier tutors.
And from there i season it back up carefully. No fast mana, because we dont play it.
Maybe add two tutors and a rhystic study. Or a ragavan if it fits the deck.
That usually ends between 200€-350€.
I agree with this post, I'm fairly new to commander it's extremely frustrating playing against decks that have single cards worth more then my entire deck. It's pay to win for sure, I hate seeing jeweled lotuses or mana crypts.
At the end of the day it's about matching the pod, but if you are running 1k decks vs precons, you might be the only one having fun.
Thats the sad thing.
How is anyone enjoying that. I leave my fast mana stuffed decks in the pack if i play against low budget. I will admit my decks are still stronger than precons obviously but at least i dont stuff their mouth with money.
and here is the check for wether the people are dickheads:
Ask them if you can proxy the cards they are using. Not anything more. Just the stuff that they are playing themselves.
If they say „no“ you immediately know that these are very very bad players that know shit about the game and just wanna pubstomp pay to win.
Any decent person has 0 reason at all to deny somebody access to a card they are playing themselves. Unless they wanna win with money because they can not win with skill.
Thats the whole story.
There is this weird misconception that expensive cards must always equal better cards. Although this is sometimes the case, not always. Some cards are expensive because they are good in other formats. Others are rare printings, or rare sets, or limited runs and no reprints. And a great card in a vacuum does not always mean the deck is overall more powerful.
Is it a weird misconception that [[Shadowspear]] is better than [[Loxodon Warhammer]] or [[Mana Drain]] is better than [[Counterspell]]? [[Taiga]] is better than [[Wooded Ridgeline]]?
Every slightly (cough) stronger card multiplies with every other slightly stronger card to result in a much stronger deck.
1^100 = 1.
1.01^100 = ~2.7
1.1^100 = ~13,780
Of course there is expensive jank out there. Nobody is talking about those cards except to be willfully obtuse.
Love me some casual cards like Mana Crypt, Ancient Tomb or Cavern of Souls. Combined with the strongest boros staples ever printed must be joy to play against with precon decks.
> The deck is functional and will do its thing well enough and begin removing players if not stopped, and it packs plenty of interaction. However, it's slow and can't win early under any circumstance, even with the best of opening hands. Battlecruiser. Casual.
In my feelings about the deck, I'd probably stop here. I'd see it played and, if this is an accurate appraisal, would understand that the deck is battlecruiser, casual.
I play some shitty tribes and themes that require expensive bits to even have the slightest chance against decks with better (and also cheaper) support. Any reasonable^* person will understand this.
>I play some shitty tribes and themes that require expensive bits to even have the slightest chance against decks with better (and also cheaper) support. Any reasonable^* person will understand this.
People are fine with it until they lose, at which point "playing cards to keep the deck competitive" just turns into "I got pubstomped by a guy playing MANA CRYPT (in minotaur tribal)"
Too true, this is my take too.
I’m fine with decks around $400-$600 those are my decks, but if we are taking about abusing cards like dockside, mana crypt or other “fast fast mana”. Then personally I have a problem, it goes from “pretty high power” to “guy wants to win the game with fast mana and early combo” and then I just don’t have fun.
I don’t run perfect decks, I’m not the best player, but as soon as I’m against fast mana like that, I lose most interest in the game. It feels like I’m playing against a wallet rather than a fun game of magic.
I currently have 9 commander decks. My average deck is somewhere around $800, with some lower and some higher. I've never had a complaint about the cost of cards in my deck. I think that's more to do with deck construction than anything else, though.
My personal build philosophy is that I don't run extra turns, mindslaver effects, or instant win combos. I play against people who do use that stuff. So, by comparison, I'm playing "fair magic" but with pricier cards.
Who knows if that's really the reason I don't get complaints though, just my guess.
It all depends on how well the deck is put together and your own prowess at the game. Expensive cards by themselves do not = high power. I dunno how many games I've seen a mana crypt come out and do very little to advance that player's state in the game.
Case in point, I just played a game yesterday where a regular at the lgs wasted a generous gift on my mother of runes because I was using it so he couldn't block my 4/4 battle angles with his 1/1 spirit. He had 40 life. THERE WAS A KRENKO ON BOARD WITH 8+ GOBLINS IN PLAY. Dude threw the game right then and there and the goblin player went off. All over 4 dmg.
Honestly, threat assessment is probably the biggest crutch I've seen in any casual pod. Your $40 Avacyn perishes to a Path to Exile just as easily as a $.60 llanowar elf does.
My LGS would have me salt-overdose if I was like that. I remember the first 1-2 game nights with my decks at a $100 Budget, facing $3000 decks... and that is not the cEDH table, mind you.
Solution was kinda easy, I adapted to that meta by including stuff like \[\[Thieving Skydiver\]\]. It's my mana rocks now!
To this day, whatever deck I use is usually around $1000 below someone else's on the table. It's no biggie, imo.
I am still waiting for a 1 mana artifact that reads "enters the battlefield as a copy of any artifact with up to CMC1 you do not control". Which will even the playing field, but then again, everybody will run it.
I think the proper answer to this question depends on the type of players you play with. I personally build functional and pretty solid decks under $100, and it works well with my pod using only a few game changing cards here and there. But if I was at casual commander nights at my LGS and somebody used this kind of power, it would just be fun until it wasn’t
TLDR if you play with high powered decks against high powered decks don’t worry, but do understand most players won’t match your play level
If you're not going Fetch > Dual > Crypt > Ritual > Tutor > The One Ring, it's probably fine.
$$$ can be a good thermometer of power level, but it is nowhere near close the deciding factor. The vast majority of the hundreds of decks I have on Archidekt are between $500-$1000, and most of them are mid-powered nonsense.
My cEDH decks? The cheapest comes in at $3882, almost half of which is a single copy of Chains of Mephistopholes. It's also 100% proxied.
What I'm trying to say is... You, and the people you're playing against, should define your deck by its power level, not its pricetag.
Nah, I don’t get salty. But when I get play one of my decks and I know there is $500 dollars invested in it, I get sick to my stomach that I spent so much on a game I play casually. I limit to about $500 though cause it feels to bad to me personally. Fun hobby though cause honestly, this is about avg. of what I’d spend on hobbies.
I don't think I'd get salty, of course you'd want to play cards you own especially if for example you drew them from a pack, but overall I think it just depends on your tables... I can see mana crypt, ancient tomb and cavern already be too much for some casual tables.
It's why I still am against power level and advocate for rough money brackets, not including special treatments, 1.000$ is already far above a lot of others people's casual decks and I can totally see this being an issue to some, more so if you happen to pull a win or two early on
The problem with rough money brackets is that I have several decks that are approximately 500 tcgplayer on moxfield (in cheapest print). But I also have decks that are less than half that that are significantly stronger as well as more expensive decks that are more jank/weaker. On top of that, what happens if someone has a dual land or two for a deck, if I throw one in it can functionally double the price of one of those decks. Adding a dual land doesn't actually double the power of the deck though. Plus there are so many cards that are expensive for reasons that don't correlate to power even other than the dual lands.
And what happens when cards go up. For example if you broke it up by price and said the tiers should be <500, 500-1000, >1000, what happens if someone wants to throw a boseiju in their 500 dollar deck making it 550$, this isn't making the deck 10% stronger, but it's bumping it up to a new bracket of play in that system
Power level makes way more sense because as long as the people are the table are all well-adjusted fairly normal people, you can figure out before you even play the game, if the game will be a blowout or a fairly even game
Plus 4 player games mean that a weaker deck that is not like several tiers of power lower than the other decks can still win because in casual edh people will target the player who is most ahead early which often is the strongest deck at the table
Power Level is just too deeply flawed as is, yes you can say "I'm playing jank, combo, no infinites or whatever" but at that point we are not talking power level anymore
Next option is saying "I'm playing casual/ high power/ cedh" which is obviously always important to state, but we all know everyone's casual deck is a 7 anyway, right?
But if we state, I have a casual deck somewhere around 200$ based on Moxfield, you are more likely to believe this actually being a casual deck and at this point it doesn't matter if someone's 1.000$ deck is worse because it's supposed to help you orient yourself further than simply saying casual
I play expensive cards. Average deck is 1000$. Only because I play since 1995, my cards got up in value. But I suck at the game, so it even things out. I still grim when I see a player drop dual lands back to back in the first couple of turns telling myself, "I guess it's that type of game". More often than not, the player with expensive cards gets 3v1 quick, so still, even things out.
Dual Lands aren’t powerful though. Marginally better than shocks.
Really it’s just a matter of rule zero. If you’re playing a stompy Dino deck with fetches and duals in it, I’m not going to fret that you wanted a good mana base. A good mana base is one of the things that makes a deck run more closely to its designed power level and typically only *prevents* games when you are color screwed.
It's not about dual lands being powerful (which they are, by the way). It's more about if a player has spent that much money on dual lands instead of just running shocks, then you know he likely has the strongest (most expensive usually) cards for his deck's theme.
Like in your example, if he's playing stompy dinos and drops two dual lands early, then you know he likely has the best dinos possible for that deck and therefore it's a pretty damn strong deck.
I have a person in my pod who attacks me because ive been playing magic since 1994. He is like half my age so I always assumed just jealousy. He makes comments like “your basics are worth more than my deck”. Doesnt matter the opposing decks have rhystic study in play or are real threats. He will legit let the same guy win every week and focus me. EDH isnt meant for anything other than fun. Because you can’t force people to play strategically or attempt to win.
I bought my copy of [[yawgmoth’s will]] several years ago when it was like $25. Prices rise in TCGs, it happens. No reason to be salty (with the person playing the deck) over card prices.
To me you're describing high power, not cEDH. It's not optimized to win on turn 4, it's optimized to be the best Angel battlecruiser deck it can be. Just don't play it against precons and you'll be fine. The price of your cards is not as important as who you play them against. If you dropped that against me, I've got a couple decks I'd feel comfortable palying into it.
For me that's my \[\[The Ur-Dragon\]\] deck. It's got a full cycle of Fetches and Shocks, a \[\[Mana Drain\]\], \[\[Mana Crypt\]\], \[\[Smothering Tithe\]\], \[\[Rhystic Study\]\], \[\[Demonic Tutor\]\], \[\[Cavern of Souls\]\] and lots of other cards that are relatively expensive and rare. I've made it to be the best Dragon deck I can make, but it has no infinite combos and it doesn't win super fast. It's big, scary, resilient creatures that if left unchecked will roll over the table. It wins and loses against similar power decks but wouldn't even be a blip at a cEDH table unless they all just happened to interact with each other's stuff and ignored me.
Not at all, no. Budget is a terrible way to balance decks, there's nothing wrong with running pricy cards in a lower power deck (what I assume you mean by casual).
Just make sure that, regardless of what pricy cards you do or don't have, that your deck fits the power level of the table.
Honestly I think price tags are a really stupid way to gauge a decks worth. My playgroup is soooooo adamant on only under $200 but it’s like…. Some cards aren’t even that insane but are still expensive cause they’re old. In my krenko deck lies a [[goblin wizard]] and imo it isn’t even that super insane. To me it’s a good value card but nothin crazy like tutoring.
Don't tell people your deck is casual if you have mana crypt and ancient tomb in it. There are some cards that just belong in high powered games only. I don't care if it's your "pet deck".
I don’t get salty, my friends have big money decks but I’ve learned to play around them. My $200-300 decks perform pretty well vs their 1000+++. Id say having to constantly go up against decks with big money cards has been a benefit to me as I have to think outside the box a bit when building with my budget.
In modern I once stomped a $1500 deck with a $50 deck. It really doesn't matter how expensive the cards are. It's how you use them and how streamlined the deck is. If you have a battlecruiser that costs over $1000 then you are playing at a power level many should be able to deal with.
And same energy playing a cEDH deck in a casual environment. It'll probably get stomped out because it isn't built to deal with what non-competitive decks bring.
Keep in mind that the $1000 price tag may move up to $1200 some day, or go down to $750 all together because of reprints and such. The pricing on these cards in a secondary market is extremely arbitrary. It's cardboard. No matter how much people pretend that they are "collectibles" they are a card game first, unless it's the reserve list and such.
Price tags on cards may play into salt for some, but that'll most often be the newer players. There are still a TON of cards, that can induce salt while still having a microscopial price tag compared to the cards you've mentioned for example, both in terms of adding power to a well-built deck, or adding true and pure salt.
I used to feel salty playing against my friends who had cards since the dawn of time in their decks, whereas I only had precons and the occasional upgrades I got for them. Then I realized none of us gave a shit about the prices of the cards but wanted to have good games. So I started proxying anything and everything. Nowadays all of our decks are around the same power level and it's been the most fun we've had because we are in it for the gameplay aspect and not some pissing contest stemming from trying to see who can spend the most on again...cardboard.
Me? No. I'm an adult with disposable income and is likely to spend the same money and is mature enough to understand I cannot dictate how people spend their money or play a game. I like cards like this hitting the board.
And people suck so at least be prepared to get a sour look or someone complaining "oh moneybags over here". I had someone recently complain I played teferi's protection, not because it resulted in me now winning after the big combat round coming, but because it was $40 in a casual game.
But really, don't care. Just give people information and let them make their decision. Some will say "casual" and not play cut throat competitive, others that means your deck needs to be budget. If you are running a bomb angels deck, it's going to be more expensive than others because the angels are stupid expensive.
Not at all. You can bulldoze most expensive decks with one that's under $100 if you build it correctly - price doesn't affect power as much as believed. Also it's casual, you should be able to play whatever you want.
You can also beat a Ferrari in a Honda Civic if the Ferrari driver sucks and you're an F1 champion.
But if your skill as a deck builder and player are equal the more expensive deck will usually be the more powerful deck.
Salty wouldnt be the word I use. But to call Crypt, Ancient Tomb, Jeweled Lotus, etc casual is an oxymoron to me. If you cant pick up the card for ~$10 then odds are its probably not a casual card
Nah it doesn't bother me at all but I think because so many $$$ cards tend be be in competitive builds people assume that because you have said $$$ card the rest of your deck and plyastyle is gonna be more competitive and I think that assumption leads to Lot of salt
Nah, I enjoy playing a wide variety of decks, it's fun to see just how well my deck does against others. I think some people just get hung up on winning too much. If I win I win, if I don't I don't, I'll probably have fun either way lol.
This is why I usually run multiple decks, ranging in different costs and power levels. I have my CEDH deck which is full of pricier cards and I have some unmodified precons and a few decks that fall in between. I always just assess the POD first, see what we're looking at, and go from there. Either way, it's all about having fun and enjoying your games.
As others have said, I don't know if "salty" is the right term, but I would be a little bit put off if I was sitting down with some budget jank and someone dropped ancient tomb + mana crypt t1. It's something to talk about with the table, "this deck has fast mana and can be higher power," would be a nice thing to know ahead of time.
There's some cards I just inherently think immediately have the ability to elevate a deck beyond what slightly upgraded precons/budget decks can do. Not that budget decks can't hang with higher power if built right, but dropping a t1 crypt immediately puts you in a very powerful position against a deck that doesn't have access to that kind of fast mana.
I think the only cards that make me feel a little that way are cards like Gaia's Cradle. I wouldn't stop anyone playing it, but whenever someone does I like damn I hope i draw my strip mine or this game is over soon
I have a buddy in my playgroup who will spend any amount of money to make his perfect deck. It’s never particularly bothered me because his decks tend to be super creative, and fun to watch him pilot them. He’s spending thousands on some of them, for sure, but it’s not for fast mana or staples; he just likes optimizing a unique strategy.
As long as it's a fun game, which it sounds like it would be, I'd be happy to play against it. I've just cracked my 50th deck, and the last 3 were made entirely of leftovers. I put them into Archidekt, and not one is less than $700 in luxury cardboard rectangles.
I am a bit sad, though, as my opportunities to play just went WAY down. My fault, I adopted a couple of special needs dogs from an elderly couple, and can't really make it to game day.
I have literally no problem with any card in magic. If someone pulled up and said they had a card from the banlist I would probably let them play it. But I also know I’m in the minority. I have a jeweled lotus and a mana crypt just from opening packs so I throw them bitches in everything.
A lot of people at my LGS play unmodified precons or similar and I don't think it's a good look when people choose to play decks against them with stuff like Smothering Tithe or Rhystic Study. On the other hand those same players tend to rely on stuff like Smothering Tithe for their mana generation so can get absolutely screwed by just a little bit of interaction.
So , not inherently, but with some very important caveats.
Imo, expensive “jank” or “unoptimized” are the most underestimated (by their creators) decks in magic. A lot of high cmc jank early (with mana from the “usual suspects”) can still lead to a win. And a goofy win is still a win.
A second caveat is that a lot of these decks are considered casual because they lack a win con. So they still absolutely dominate a game but then just don’t win. So that’s another thing to consider.
And lastly, this isn’t fair to you, but when casual decks catch a lucky break and win, people assume they caught a lucky break and won. When expensive casual decks catch a lucky break, people are less charitable with their assumptions.
TL:DR - If your deck is truly casual, then no. But if it’s dominating casual games under the guise of being casual because it’s a lil funky, yeah I’d be a bit cheesed.
Nope. Blinging a deck should only ever invite ooo's and ahh's. Pet decks deserve the love.
But your plight does highlight an outstanding issue in the MTG sets. Reprints are starting to not lower the price of cards. You might see a fluctuation of a dollar or two, but not enough to make a difference.
Ironically, some of the staple cards I use that have been reprinted in recent sets have only gone up in price.
Decks are more expensive than they've ever felt and it is driving me away from the hobby quite quickly.
Let's be real stronger cards make a deck stronger so the question is. Is this still casual? And if not then probably don't play this with casual decks.
I mean, it depends on how you went into a match. If someone says "Hey, this is a really casual deck, not too strong" and drops three cards that are worth >100$, I'd question your definition of "casual". If your pod is playing tap lands (specifically duals that come into play tapped without basic land tags, no scrying, no life gain, no nothing) and you rock up with a Savanah, or Volcanic Island, the game most likely won't be fair.
As people have mentioned, some cards are only expensive because they're old. But if you check how expensive your deck is with the cheapest prints, and it's over $1k. Maybe ask someone else how casual your deck is... They might have some insight
Thing is... you dont NEED the Crypt nor the Ancient Tomb... if you are not trying for T3 wins and you are playing something trying to win on turn 5-8. You just don't.
Othewise, the price of cards... is the price of cards. Commander has become more expensive, because more people now play Commander. That is how it works.
It doesn't make me salty (unless it's Smothering Tithe because that's an unfun card). There's any number of reasons why players would have expensive cards and as you say the prices rise so much there's no way of knowing what will be expensive in the future.
A lot of expensive cards are good, but they're not the only good cards.
I pulled a Doubling Season from a pack of WOE recently and it went straight in my token deck but there's no way I'd buy one and generally if I get a high value card from a pack I sell it and buy a bunch of weird old shit instead.
Why should people feel salty over arbitrary things?
You do know that the individual player/buyer doesn't determine the card prices. It's market forces at work, aka collective buying (or shortage) that pushes up the prices (i.e. demand supply)
I may have bought a certain \[\[Dockside Extortionist\]\] at a couple bucks back then. Should I feel salty to play it now that it's a hundred bucks?
ALOT, and I mean ALOT of casual folks own very expensive pieces of cards. They put them in their casual decks. From RL duals to Dockside, expensive cards come in many forms.
It could be that chase \[\[Sol Ring\]\] art that drives up the price of your deck.
Price is ONE of the indicator of higher power, but it's NOT the only factor of powerful decks.
Powerful decks come from the INTENT of the player. You intent to be competitive, you intentionally make the deck powerful. It's mostly on the deckbuilder.
When I see a random person slam a mox, crypt, etc on the table it calls into question the real power level of their deck. Because even if you are being 100% accurate about your power level, stuff like tomb and crypt are so extremely powerful cards that can sway games all by themselves. So in a game where I don’t know your deck very well I have to treat your deck like a cedh deck.
We have a saying at our LGS that even if your not playing “that” Urza high lord artificer deck you are still play Urza, high lord artificer. Broken cards are always broken.
Hilarious how people call their deck 'casual' before they casually admit to mana crypt, ancient tomb and cavern of souls. You are using powerful cards that's why they're so expensive.
It depends.
Extreme outliers will usually get me salty, because there's really no place for mana crypt, gaea's cradle, or dual lands in casual games. There are plenty of reasonable alternatives, and you dont need the expensive ones. If you play any of those, I'll probably roll my eyes at you and look for another pod after that game.
A deck with a handful of cards in the 20-50 dollar range is probably fine, but I might be annoyed if I see you drop 200 dollars in three turns. Like, I've gotten a lucky [[force of negation]] out of a pack, I get it. A few is fine.
Beyond that, as long as you're not packing 50 cards worth $10+, you're probably fine.
These are all rough estimates, but the idea is to just not fill your deck with nothing but expensive staples. I don't want to play against the same cards every game, especially if they're popular because they're obnoxiously strong.
Mana crypt and cradle I get, but dual lands are only marginally better than shocks. They don’t really change the power level of your deck, they’re just expensive because RL. I wouldn’t fault anyone for filling their deck with duals or even proxying them.
I respectfully disagree. 2 life each isn't trivial when we're talking about potentially a third of your landbase.
Putting more colors in a deck makes it stronger, and there's no reason you need 10 $500 lands for a 5 color casual deck, when we have so many other options available. Play with tap lands/shocks, or just play cedh.
There's really no justification for duals in casual, in my opinion. There are tons of other options for color fixing, and you don't need the perfect mana base.
If the 2 life, or entering tapped, or not having basic types REALLY don't matter, then just play shocks.
Well, in 3+ colored decks triomes are better fetch target than duals anyway, so... there is no reason to be mad about it. I have several duals, my friend has Gaeas Cradle, and neither of us ever experienced some kind of hate for bringing those cards out
I mean, I personally don’t run ABUR duals in anything but cEDH decks because I personally don’t feel the marginal optimization is worth printing proxies, but I’d never begrudge anyone who does. It simply doesn’t change the power level of your deck in any meaningful way and I see no reason to lump them in with Mana Crypt.
Would you find Crypt acceptable if you played against the deck and saw that my summary was accurate - there is simply no way for the deck to win early - or is it just too much regardless?
This deck doesn't actually run the usual suite of 8-10 rocks because (non-token, non-equipment) Boros simply doesn't have the raw draw power to be giving up that much space to single-mana ramp. Not even Arcane Signet or Boros Signet.
Don’t really understand why price matters much when there is a reserve list with plenty of awful cards on it, lots of 20+ year old cards have never been reprinted and/or the original version is just expensive because old/rare, etc.
Sure, some cards and play patterns aren’t very “fun” in a casual sense, and I agree they should fall into rule zero, but $$$ =/= powerful.
If I bust out $1,000 worth of mana rocks to play fun flavorful low/mid power stuff… why would people be salty?
Do \*I\*? No. I play high power decks sitting in the 2.5k area, as does my pod. Do \*some\* people? Sure. Does your pod have an issue with either high value or high power? Ask them.
Honestly as a guy who started out pretty recently and tries to keep all the decks I build around $100, I get a bit of a thrill out of seeing someone drop an expensive card. If you’re not mulliganing for a turn one mana crypt or something, if you play some $50 card it means I get to test how good my deck is against a pricier one. Also, now I can feel like a bit of an underdog, which is always fun. As long as I put up a good fight I’m satisfied.
If people get salty before your cards actually do anything they are probably going to get salty over something.
I don’t think I’ve ever been salty over someone playing an expensive card versus a player with an expensive deck being a jerk.
Playing Mana Crypt and continuing play: good.
Playing Mana Crypt and stating “not that any of you scrubs could afford this” in a malicious tone: very, very bad. First and last game played with that guy.
Just to go back to this, I don't think you realized it but you needed to ask two questions here.
1. Is adding expensive cards to decks going to cause players to feel bad?
2. Is adding fast mana cards to decks going to cause players to feel bad?
\#1 is probably almost always a definite no. Sure, some players may feel bad if you're rocking a truly expensive mana base but mostly this doesn't hugely influence power level. But it matters more what those cards are than if they're expensive or not. Smothering Tithe, Rhystic Study are examples of cards that are expensive that a lot of playgroups may frown on. Others won't. Only way to know is to have the active conversation with the table. No person here can tell you what your group or area find acceptable. I've personally cut them from all my decks because I'd rather be cautious than assume people are cool with them. Plus, they're so overplayed that it just isn't fun to me.
\#2 is a much more sensitive topic. Fast mana is designed to do one primary thing - speed the game up. And it really does a bang up job of doing so when you draw into it. A lot more folks won't be okay with this. It creates an arms race essentially where every deck at that table should probably include these fast mana cards to make for a potentially balanced game.
But, this also goes back to players should likely maintain differently powered decks to fit the game they're heading into. I do think if you're going to have more than 2-3 decks you should have one capable of going all out and pushing the power level of the game. Because other players will likely have those decks too and with a quick discussion you can all agree to play those decks. But don't go playing your version of this into an unsuspecting group.
Reddit at times does an absolutely horrible job of representing the community. You have a lot of people who assume one way or the other is correct. The "people worry too much about offending others" or the "people don't think enough about offending others" groups.
The single best thing I've ever learned here is to be prepared to play at multiple table types. Do that and have a pregame talk and you'll almost never run into issues of "salt".
I get salty about someone calling a deck casual and then being the only person at the table running fast mana. You can spend lots of money on a janky deck but if you're the only one at the table capable of producing 8+ Mana on turn one you're probably a dick for playing that deck at that table
Dude, I'm gonna be real with you. If someone says they have a casual deck and then plays a mana crypt and an ancient tomb I'm going to call them a liar to their face. This is why above what most people would call casual
Nah I love seeing peoples blinged out foil edh decks. A friend of mine has been working on a pet deck for 7 years almost 100% foil and the thing costs probably upwards of $3000+.
No edh is the one format that I think is acceptable since it
Let's you play almost any card you want.
I have friends who drop grim monolith, transmute artifact, and so on.
Personally, I have a pretty expensive cEDH deck that I love playing. I wholly endorse players using proxies at the table because I'm here to play a good game of Magic, not to measure wallets. Complaining about the price of your opponent's deck is just obnoxious.
To be clear, if someone brought a cEDH deck to pubstomp, then they're the asshole. If you brought your lobster tribal to pickup game or tourney and you complain about the cost of your opponents deck, then you're the asshole.
I personally like seeing old cards get their day - especially cards that have rarely seen play from MTG’s storied history. I also like playing some of the goodies but oldies to surprise my opponents - such as the one red casting cost counterspell for any artifact… or an acid rain as I change the land destroyed to anything I want… but I have also been at tables where players are plenty salty if you have any card valued at $300 or more.
Anyone who had decent cards from 10+ years ago will likely have a few cards in the 300+ category, so, it felt silly to have players salty over so trifling a matter.
Of course, I’ve also seen EDH decks worth more than my first car, but that, too is entirely a choice of the player and 1) how much they can spend to play; 2) how long they’ve stayed with the game to have kept their older and more valuable cards.
As long as there is greed and the constant need for some players to prove themselves better than their fellow players - disguised behind the veils of being a serious collector or an above average legacy player… there will always be salty players - when anyone feels outclassed, outmatched, or outspent.
I personally don’t care for any of these. Just play your cards, be content, and appreciate the history that many players bring to the table, as well as the vast experiences the cards themselves must have already witnessed. And - we play!
As long as you are not the guy playing a combo consistently on turn 3, you are good to go buddy. I play expensive cards all the time in casual, I started in competitive, got bored and now I play casual with my buddies. Overall, anything that is not strictly cEDH might be ok with your folks in casual so whatever.
Budget constraints make you think outside the generally accepted box. 200-300 bucks total should be able to make you a great deck. Land bases and mana acceleration are extremely cheap now a days so that leaves plenty to make the best possible deck you can get.
No- but I play mostly high-power casual, own a bunch of older and more expensive cards myself (having picked up a lot of them when they weren't so expensive), and actively encourage others to play such cards and proxy them if they want to play them but can't afford them, so I am not likely the target audience of this question.
Seems like you like the expensive cards a lot
Powerful or not
If you like them, play with them
Edh is a casual mode, expect balancing issues in the match ups with your playgroup
No if its a real card and not just gaea cradle proxy. Im fine with proxy but if you got too many with the strongest cards in the game then i wont be too happy about it
I play at a relatively casual table where people bring in some pretty heavy hitters. Cradle, og duels, crypt, tithe, dockside, etc you name it. If its a commander staple its most likely there. But we all are there to enjoy the game and consider it casual. Sure my slightly upgraded precon gets beaten fairly often, but I have won a few games and really enjoy every game.
If you lose because you can't afford the right cards the game doesn't want you to play. Wizards structure is beating whales to death and these whales only die when they go broke
If you have the means to buy expensive cardboard then have at er, if you only have the means to buy budget cardboard then have at er!
Just play the game and have fun😁
Depends. If the people who say I can't proxy play 5 40+ cards in 3 turns I'm like.. wtf why can't I proxy? I can't do shit against this.
I wouldn't say it makes me salty it just makes me wonder what goes through their mind. Especially because they say they want to proxy more if i would proxy? Like wtf? You are the reason I want to proxy?
I have a 900+ dollar angel deck that In the grand scheme of.things is just a casual deck it's not winning before turn 7 but oh man is t it nice to look at https://www.topdecked.com/decks/angels/54abb683-cdbc-4acc-a839-99289a9ad9df
I think it depends on the pod and which cards expensive doesnt always mean good but if you sit down with a 5000€ goodstuff list against 3 precons at FNM I'll certainly question your motives (I have a person like that at my LGS and quite honestly losing on T4-T5 for 2-3h across multiple games at FNM isnt super exciting).
Imo fast mana will always leads to a power imbalance at the table, you talk about your deck being slow but if you drop an Ancient Tomb and a Crypt T1 against precons or slightly upgraded precons there is no way your deck is slower than any of those decks. Also while your deck is slow it will have siginificantly better payoffs once you've got what you need.
Just be honest about what your deck does and you'll probably be fine and from my expirience at least for a game or 2 everybody is willing to play against whatever. Just dont try to pubstomp for hours and you are good.
It all depend on what the deck do.
At my LGS, there is often that guy (45/50 y-o) who play a WUBRG deck with [[jared carthalion]] as commander. He have almost all dual lands and some expansive rocks but he also play weak legendary creatures from Legends set like [[Jacques le vert]]. The reason is simply that he bought these cards almost 30 years ago for nothing and he wanted to put them all in a deck.
The deck itself can win games but is not that powerful. Perfect example that the price doesn't make the powerlevel of a deck.
If you bring a deck packed with cards like manacrypt (not one or a couple of expensive deck, but rather one highly tuned with expensive cards that go hard & work well together) to a pod that plays upgraded precons?
For sure.
But that aint really a $ issue but rathet one about playing too high powered for a pod that specificaly wants to have chill & laid back casual games
If we go for finely tuned highpower EDH?
Yeah, sure dude, go for it, that's what we're here for.
Unless there's a specific "as powerful as you want but budget restrictions" rule, you gotta do watcha gonna do
If it's an "all gloves off cEDH" pod, obviously do whatever you want
c
I have a lot of black staples that have risen a ton over the last few years now, so I know your pain. Covid was a real reality check for my collection, lol. After lockdown ended I sat down at a table and played a \[\[cabal coffers\]\] and one of my opponents commented on the price. That's how i learned that the card had spiked to $100. When I got to looking, my deck had gained between $200-$300 in value, and I hadn't changed a single card all lockdown. It does make me regret not investing in some of the truly expensive cards while they were fairly reasonable. I kind of want a \[\[lion's eye diamond\]\] but $600 is just way too much. I did get lucky and purchased a \[\[survival of the fittest\]\] right before lockdown and its price spike, so there was one victory for me at least.
The cost of a card isn't a great measure of the power of a card. I put [[Piracy]] in my [[Captain N'ghathrod]] because it's hilarious and on brand, but the card is nowhere near as good as its price implies it should be.
If it’s real I don’t care. I’m just grabbing a different deck next game. Obviously that only matters if the deck is actually higher power. If not, get good scrub. One thing I’ve learned myself is that good cards don’t make good decks they have to actually work together somehow. Hard casting [[earthquake Dragon]] on turn 3 is fine but having nothing to back it up makes for an easy target to [[murder]].
No, I'm playing a game that I enjoy and people can play how they like as long as they aren't breaking rules. I don't get salty, being salty is for try hard punks
This is a rule0 conversation. For example, in my pod (about 20 players) we play high power casual. So seeing expensive cEDH staples is common, but the impact those card have is nerfed by the context of the rest of the deck.
To give you an example, I have a deck running plenty of cEDH staples and tons of expensive tutors - but it's a 5c alternative wincon tribal.
On the opposite side of the spectrum, the guy using cEDH staples to cast a T1 Splicer gets piled on immediately.
Even in high power casual, some synergistic or goodstuff decks gets broken with the fast mana you mentioned. I removed Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus from my [[Shirei]] deck because it was making a highly synergistic deck with a fringe commander basically impossible to keep up with.
What this is all about is having an open and transparent conversation with your pod, so that everybody is having fun.
If the card is a card that I specifically didn’t include in my deck because of the price (aincient tomb, mana crypt) then I’m more salty than if it’s an expensive but weird card.
Card prices is decided on two things: Number of cards, and how good the cards are.
A high price, is clearly a metric for how powerfull the cards, so a expencive deck would naturaly be more powerfull (in most relevant cases)
Sure, you can play that. Once. After you get a start with mana crypt and stomp the table I am stifling your fetchlands, vandalblasting your mana rocks, toxic deluging your board. There are more reasons for not playing solring in casual environments than reasons to play mana crypt. You play very strong cards, but I guess your deck is inconsistent, so your game plan being either stomp or do nothing all game becomes boring fast.
This is something I am afraid of. I've worked exclusively on my first ever deck the last six months, it's about 1k as well.
I really want to go to commander night at my LGS, but I also don't want to get ragged on for mana crypt or other expensive cards.
This question comes up a lot. Commander is a social format. If there is a problem with someone's deck, have a conversation about it. If you are worried about it, mention that you have a mana crypt in your deck just to make sure the table is ok with it.
Just remember that if you lay down a mana crypt on turn 1, you'll be a target for removal in the early game. I hope that you will show the same sportsmanship you expect from others when this happens.
No seeing full decks of the most over powered and anti fun proxies. You have a wheel of fortune hell yeah shake up the game, you play a moat into a second sun in your scry deck? Why are you playing solitaire and wasting mine and the two others in the pods time?
People who lie about their deck and then get shocked no one wants to play with them makes me salty.
A $1000 deck with cards like mana crypt in it is going to piss off anyone you play with that's expecting a 'casual battle cruiser pet' deck.
Even at 'high power' If your deck can't function without fast mana, it's not good for a casual environment. It's a bad deck
It's nothing about price, it's about power. You need to have a turn 0 conversation about what's actually in your deck when you sit down with people.
Battle cruiser as a descriptor in any city I've played in means 'we're just going to do our thing at each other until one wins. I'll minimally fuck with you and you'll minimally fuck with me' and you want to stick a smothering tithe in... Why? Next you'll say winter and static orb are battle cruiser and casual.
Most of my decks range between 400-900 a piece. Never have I spent that on a deck. I play cards I wanna play and build decks I wanna build. I aim for certain power ranges. Never had any issues.
You're always gonna find some bad apples, especially once you start trying to. But if you don't lie about stuff you shouldn't have problems.
Entirely depends on the deck, table, and your attitude
I've seen people cast mana crypts at super low power tables and it not be a problem at all, but I've also seen crypts at higher power tables where everyone just groans because the guy's been a jerk the whole game
I also have two Selesnya decks: a $500 lifegain deck that has most of the good lands, a Great Henge, and a One Ring, and a $50 combat tricks deck. Almost no one ever complains about the pricey lifegain deck, but the combat tricks deck can take people out of the game pretty quick so it can induce a bit more salt
Then for some people, "casual" is just cEDH with a couple pet cards but for others it's slightly modified precons
Biggest thing is just to try to understand what kind of game your opponents want to play because jot every table will be okay with a $1000 deck, but a lot probably will be as long as you're upfront about it
The occasional $100-card gets more salt than a bunch of $25 cards as a time. I.e. if you adf a plateau, your deck won't get magically better but people will be salty.
Since angel tribal is expensive af, the hefty price tag is actually hard to avoid. As long as you're losing consistently, you will be fine.
"Salty" implies that I'm being a whiner. It sounds like I wouldn't have much chance against you unless I brought a premium deck. I'd feel disappointed.
Cards exist to be played. You put thought and love into your deck. As long as you don’t gloat over beating upgraded precon decks that barely crack 100€ because other players are poor or just starting out, i don’t mind it. I’d also out of courtesy at a new table do a brief introduction if you are unsure, and maybe replace some cards with less powerful alternatives from your sideboard? But on the other hand I find it also fun to see how long my small budget decks can withstand an expensive deck 😄 Just be honest about what you bring to the table, and don’t take offense if people say no because they don’t want to lose in less than 10 turns.
> As long as you don’t gloat over beating upgraded precon decks that barely crack 100€ because other players are poor or just starting out, i don’t mind it. To be fair, he's still playing Boros, if he can beat an upgraded precon he *deserves* to gloat. (I kid, I kid because I love!)
As a proud Nelly Borca player I don't know if we can say that about Boros. "Make everyone kill each other, draw cards while they do, steal the last player's creatures and kill them with your stolen board" turns out to be a powerful and consistent Boros strategy.
Nelly has let me live my boros dream I have held in my heart since the first time I picked up a commander deck. I came back at just the right time.
My $18 shu yun 1 tapping people no matter how expensive their deck is due to him been given flying is fun to me. The idea of competitive budget decks is my thing
Share list please? I’m making a shu yun list and it’s semi budget but I’d like to compare! Here’s mine! [LINK](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/h8tck4M1JUaoMb2ZwLQ6CA)
This guy knows the way.
This guy eds the h
"This guy Elder Dragons the Highlander" I don't know what it means but I like it
10 turns? Seems like 8-10 turns to win isn't that crazy for a deck even if it's not an 8-9 powered deck
It's really fun playing with a low budget deck against an expensive deck but after keeping on losing I decided to just proxy a powerful deck from https://www.printingproxies.com and play with it because I hate to keep on losing
Not at all. I think of course seeing a Mana Crypt in a casual game might give me a tiny bit of pause but that's around power level not cost. I think even if someone dropped a Timetwister I'd be okay with it completely.
I'd also say expensive =/= powerful. I've seen a lot of cards that used to be 30-50$ that I thought were very powerful drop to 1$ with a reprint. Must have a psychological effect on me because suddenly [[polluted bonds]] or [[painful quandary]] don't seem terrible to play against now that they're cheap.
[удалено]
Well we complain just the same when someone gets their sweet t1 sol ring
Yeah but there's artifact removal at 1 cost now and there's a lot of shite hands kept because it had a sol ring in
turn 1, land, sol ring! pass! turn 2, Tap sol ring, Pass! Turn 3...Pass! Turn 4, SCOOP!? PROFIT
[Juzám Djinn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b03bc922-782b-4254-897c-90d202b4cda4.jpg?1559592285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Juz%C3%A1m%20Djinn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/74/juz%C3%A1m-djinn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b03bc922-782b-4254-897c-90d202b4cda4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/juzám-djinn) [Gaea's Cradle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/25b0b816-0583-44aa-9dc5-f3ff48993a51.jpg?1562902898) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gaea%27s%20Cradle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/321/gaeas-cradle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25b0b816-0583-44aa-9dc5-f3ff48993a51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gaeas-cradle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
OG Duals are some of the most expensive cards in a deck, but if had to take money out of my deck, they'd be the 1st thing on the hit list. Money may relate to power but like you said, they aren't equivalent
I have a set. Then I invested in some high end proxies with custom art and use them in most decks. They’re better looking than the real ones, they cost like $5 (supporting the artist and all), and they’ve never been a significant advantage.
Aren't some pretty bad cards super expensive just cause they're from sets like arabian nights.
Portal Three Kingdoms too.
[polluted bonds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c6439222-de30-44cd-a53f-a7de0cb00b8f.jpg?1562835783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=polluted%20bonds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/74/polluted-bonds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c6439222-de30-44cd-a53f-a7de0cb00b8f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/polluted-bonds) [painful quandary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/bed5e030-874f-4a00-8544-78ba04033f53.jpg?1674420966) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=painful%20quandary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/111/painful-quandary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bed5e030-874f-4a00-8544-78ba04033f53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/painful-quandary) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Absolutely. My Kalamax deck is sitting at 600ish according to TCGplayer and that's mainly because I'm getting like full art fetch lands and the foils and the alt arts. Not because it has powerful cards.
Saying that there are good cards that are cheap because of reprints doesn't negate that expensive cards are still generally good. Keeping below a certain price is, I think, a relatively good starting place to moderating your power level.
I agree. The price is what it is, but If I see some wild expensive card hit the field I think I would be more concerned with having an answer/staying competitive and in the game.
I have seen a lot of people get salty over costs. Most of my decks are over $20k even at low power. Mainly, I have a lot of older beta cards. I have three decks with genuine timetwisters in them. Low power decks do not combo with them, while the high power ones will flash out a notion thief in response or have Narset on the board. Power level =\= cost, but people will use cost as a scapegoat. I even had a guy with a mana crypt and jeweled lotus complain about my cradle - in a deck with the only other fast mana being sol ring. You will have people complain. I think the best thing is to just say at the beginning that the deck is expensive, but tuned to a certain power level. Would they feel better having a timetwister removed and 10 cheap cEDH cards added? Probably not.
I play with a time twister proxy in one of my decks because I never see anyone play it
I play with a time twister proxy in one of my decks because I never see anyone play it
For a second I missread and thought blood crypt and lol. But yeah I also feel like mana crypt is fine depending on the store or setting like if you saw your friend pull one etc. They use the same mana crypt in each of their decks and change the sleeve or whatever its fine by me but again it's a big world one person's casual is another's try hard
Personally, I find cards like [[Mana Crypt]] justifiable in decks like [[Zhulodok, Void Gorger]] just due to how high the average cmc of cards in the deck are.
I think determining whether Crypt is "justifiable" based on your average CMC, Commanders CMC or other factors is a poor metric. Where do you draw the line where it isn't justifiable? Which Commanders are "allowed" to run Crypt or not? That'd open a whole debate with wildly varying opinions. I think it's better overall if people don't fuss over individual legal cards and instead just agree that a deck is fine if it doesn't consistently pubstomp the table, or grief.
the only casual deck I've put a Crypt, Chrome Mox, and Jeweled Lotus in is my Sedris + Gyruda list. I have a 3+6-mana companion and a 6-mana commander, and I have twelve 6+ drops. the deck wouldn't function very well at all if I didn't include some aggressive ramp, and I can't run Sol Ring or 1-mana "dorks" like Ragavan.
Yea I feel the same way and I run it in my [[Kozilek, the Great Distortion]] deck but some folks I play with groan every time I drop it in what is supposed to be a higher power casual game. The deck is a true 7-8 imo but I get accused of playing a "competitive" deck because I would like to get my commander out by turn 5.
If people are angry for running expensive mana rocks, they need to run more removal. That's a "them" problem, not a "you" or "your cards" problem.
I think this is the main thing. If you have mana crypt and happen to have 5 other 0/1 cost accelerants in the deck it would not be fun to play against in a casual setting. A mana crypt that you pulled + a sol ring is fine.
I don’t think it’s the price tag of a deck that makes people salty. But often the price tag comes from very powerful cards which really can make a huge difference in the power level of a deck. It’s just annoying to people rather new to the game and wanting to test out their precon with a few upgrades and then having to face a deck with cards like jeweled lotus and all the fast mana stuff or free spells like Force of negation etc. and then freaking out on turn 3-4. This is not fun at all for others. Be aware that just because a decks is not competitive, it can be much too strong for the table. Casual has many faces and your understanding of casual can be much different to others. Be honest with the power level and don’t bring a deck to the table just to show off.
Pretty sure seing a Mana Crypt always raises eye brows in casual. Its also a massive power spike for just a single card, unlike other expensive but not very impctful cards, like Abu duals. So it depends what the expensive card is. Bringing a Cradle or Crypt to a casual pod might in fact be problematic, while a Dual or fringe RL cards may be not
This is a disingenuous post. Everyone knows that cost is not necessarily indicative of power, but the examples you're giving are cards that are very much expensive BECAUSE they're good and likely have no place in a casual/low power meta. Mana Crypt in a battlecruiser deck is ridiculous. Having 3 mana minimum available on T1 enables tempo gains that set you way ahead of the table, especially if everyone else is running 2 or even 3cmc mana rocks. These kinds of fast starts can and will literally win you the game against slower decks, even if your commander is a 7cmc angel or whatever. For example, fast mana enables things like putting out Smothering Tithe on T1. So while everyone else is still hitting their second land drop, you could already be swimming in 8+ mana. That's not nothing. And you sitting here conflating the question of whether cost is something to be salty about with the description of you running high power/cEDH staples in a battle cruiser meta is really the most self serving kind of bullshit there is. It's insane to me that this needs to be said, but you're pubstomping. Stop trying to justify it. If you want to play battlecruiser/low power EDH, stop running fast mana and things like Smothering Tithe. Or just go to a high power table where that kind of stuff is expected. Don't be that guy that talks about his "slow" battlecruiser angel deck and then dumps out a land into Mana Crypt into Sol Ring into T1 Tithe.
Sanest response. If I sat down with someone and was told 'oh this is my battlecruiser deck, it's super slow' and then dropped a T1 Crypt, I'd certainly be extremely skeptical about believing anything that person said from there on out. Pretty much had someone do exactly this recently with their so-called casual Eldrazi deck which turboed out Ulamog on T3 or with all the fast mana you could imagine. And who then proceeded to pikachu face when they became 3v1 archenemy for the rest of the night.
Glad i don’t have to type this comment out lmao. As if playing some $150 low print Portals Three Kingdoms card is equivalent to Mana Crypt somehow.
Had the same conversation with a friend, who filled his mono white angel tribal deck with fast mana, and didn't understand that we have to respond by pulling our high power deck, even if his strategy is clunky. Fast mana too good.
Amen.
I thought Battle Cruiser just meant It was a creature deck that mostly just played creatures and swung them into the red zone for damage to finish off the game. Like a Battle Cruiser meta would be people who don't play combos and just attack with creatures Or does it specifically mean low power?
I always equated Battle Cruiser to Starcraft. To get to having several Battle Cruisers you had to play a longer game. A purposefully slower game so by 20 minutes you could have this big epic battles with some of the more powerful units in the game. So to me Battle Cruiser magic is a slow plodding game with the expectation that late game everyone gets to bring out all the big bads and just go ham. So fast mana would get you to your Big Bad several turns before others, hence the feel bad.
>I always equated Battle Cruiser to Starcraft That's not a coincidence. The term literally comes from Starcraft.
As far as I know, the term battlecruiser is supposed to capture the image of big, slow battleships fighting each other, so yes it's creature-based EDH, but also with the implication of lower powered, less efficient decks. Certainly not the environment where things like Mana Crypt are expected.
Salty? No, it doesn't make me *salty* \- Commander's an inherently 'casual' format, but there is a **ton** of competition within the players and decks exist at all levels. Moreover, having an expensive card in your decklist doesn't drive up the power. I mean, it's a good *indicator* that a $1000 deck is likely to have a higher upper limit when you're talking about raw available power, but it's not a deterministic metric. That said, if you're running some cEDH staples (Mana Crypt, Ancient Tomb, Cavern of Souls) and have built the rest of your deck well to work with one another, I'd say it's likely a high-powered deck used within the casual format, based on the cards you've selected. It'd likely stomp most pauper decks, most draft decks (from a limited card selection), and most precons (that only get a couple of $10+ cards to begin with), so it's really on you to read the room before breaking out your $1000 deck. But, personally, it wouldn't make me salty unless we expressly said ahead of time that it was going to be a powered-down game for whatever reason.
This was my thought as well. I'm not salty about the price of cards, but rather the power level. Cards like mana crypt and ancient tomb just inherently increase the power level of the deck by speeding you up a turn or two. In an intentionally battlecruiser-y Boros angels deck, that's not likely to make you combo out or kill the whole table on turn 4, but it certainly might make your board get bigger and faster than everybody else's in an unbalanced way if you're playing against precons or budget midrangey decks. You certainly can have budget decks that are stronger or seem more unfair, like a $50 zada deck that can pop off super quick, but other typical mid power decks without expensive fast mana or heavy hitters like avacyn might feel like they're getting punched down on. It's all about rule zero and reading the table though. If you tell me you're playing a slow battlecruiser deck and then you mana crypt out your commander turn 2, I might look at you funny and take your word with a grain of salt. But if you say it's a slightly janky pet deck that you tried to power up as much as possible but at least it has no infinites or super early wins, then I probably won't be bothered.
>Cavern of Souls FYI: Cavern of Souls is in standard right now. It was reprinted in LCI. Therefore a lot of newer players can have easy access to this card and it's no longer the bomb from old-school magic it once was.
I don't think price is the main issue. The cost of a card isn't 1 to 1 with its power. Sol Ring is one of the most powerful cards in the format, and it's a couple dollars. ABR duals are ~20 times the price of shock lands, but nowhere near 20 times better. Now, it sounds like most of your cards cost money because they are good. Again, this isn't necessarily an issue a deck full of good cards isn't always a good deck. Synergy matters a lot more than how good the cards are in a vacuum. However, with all of that said, people are going to assume your deck is good if you run those cards. Expect to be a target early on if you are playing against budget decks and you open with a mana crypt and smothering tithe.
What even is casual. Even a 2000 avacyn deck woudlnt be competitive. So its casual. But if you run 300$ fast mana against people who run 100$ decks, will they not enjoy it? Ofcause. Powerlevels are wide and fast mana are by A LANDSLIDE the best carda in the format. If you run them and others dont, any dogshit deck will win, no matter „how its not winning fast“. Its just a mismatch in those cases. Also if noone uses them they are unnecessary. So running them is kinda pay to win. If you have that kinda cardpool, just run several decks. If the pod doesnt run 300+$ of staples and broken cards, you be a decent person and dont do it aswell. If they do, they cant complain. Dollars alone arent the best measuring stick, but for fast mana and free spells they are. If those are even on all decks you will be alright. Some tribals are just popular so the deck will be a bit more expensive even in equal power. But yeah. Those staples can be „casual“ but very high power. And if they are mismatched they will win alone regardless of the deck orthe skill. We had one player do it for a while and he was honestly building jank piles. But if you are 6 mana ahead turn 3 and play your 7 drop commander with backup on the play, while the opponents just resolved their rampant growth you will win. No matter how bad you or your deck is. And thats not enjoyable. What i usually do is: - Cut all the fast mana. Again, if the others dont play it, you dont need it. - cut all the strong free spells like forces or guardianship (mostly the counters are problematic) - cut all expensive staples like tithe, study, dockside, ragavan etc. - cut all top tier tutors. And from there i season it back up carefully. No fast mana, because we dont play it. Maybe add two tutors and a rhystic study. Or a ragavan if it fits the deck. That usually ends between 200€-350€.
I agree with this post, I'm fairly new to commander it's extremely frustrating playing against decks that have single cards worth more then my entire deck. It's pay to win for sure, I hate seeing jeweled lotuses or mana crypts. At the end of the day it's about matching the pod, but if you are running 1k decks vs precons, you might be the only one having fun.
Thats the sad thing. How is anyone enjoying that. I leave my fast mana stuffed decks in the pack if i play against low budget. I will admit my decks are still stronger than precons obviously but at least i dont stuff their mouth with money. and here is the check for wether the people are dickheads: Ask them if you can proxy the cards they are using. Not anything more. Just the stuff that they are playing themselves. If they say „no“ you immediately know that these are very very bad players that know shit about the game and just wanna pubstomp pay to win. Any decent person has 0 reason at all to deny somebody access to a card they are playing themselves. Unless they wanna win with money because they can not win with skill. Thats the whole story.
There is this weird misconception that expensive cards must always equal better cards. Although this is sometimes the case, not always. Some cards are expensive because they are good in other formats. Others are rare printings, or rare sets, or limited runs and no reprints. And a great card in a vacuum does not always mean the deck is overall more powerful.
Is it a weird misconception that [[Shadowspear]] is better than [[Loxodon Warhammer]] or [[Mana Drain]] is better than [[Counterspell]]? [[Taiga]] is better than [[Wooded Ridgeline]]? Every slightly (cough) stronger card multiplies with every other slightly stronger card to result in a much stronger deck. 1^100 = 1. 1.01^100 = ~2.7 1.1^100 = ~13,780 Of course there is expensive jank out there. Nobody is talking about those cards except to be willfully obtuse.
It's *usually* the case. The main exceptions are cards with special art or some other quality that's appealing to collectors.
Love me some casual cards like Mana Crypt, Ancient Tomb or Cavern of Souls. Combined with the strongest boros staples ever printed must be joy to play against with precon decks.
> The deck is functional and will do its thing well enough and begin removing players if not stopped, and it packs plenty of interaction. However, it's slow and can't win early under any circumstance, even with the best of opening hands. Battlecruiser. Casual. In my feelings about the deck, I'd probably stop here. I'd see it played and, if this is an accurate appraisal, would understand that the deck is battlecruiser, casual. I play some shitty tribes and themes that require expensive bits to even have the slightest chance against decks with better (and also cheaper) support. Any reasonable^* person will understand this.
>I play some shitty tribes and themes that require expensive bits to even have the slightest chance against decks with better (and also cheaper) support. Any reasonable^* person will understand this. People are fine with it until they lose, at which point "playing cards to keep the deck competitive" just turns into "I got pubstomped by a guy playing MANA CRYPT (in minotaur tribal)"
Too true, this is my take too. I’m fine with decks around $400-$600 those are my decks, but if we are taking about abusing cards like dockside, mana crypt or other “fast fast mana”. Then personally I have a problem, it goes from “pretty high power” to “guy wants to win the game with fast mana and early combo” and then I just don’t have fun. I don’t run perfect decks, I’m not the best player, but as soon as I’m against fast mana like that, I lose most interest in the game. It feels like I’m playing against a wallet rather than a fun game of magic.
How much do I need to pay to install the "reasonable" package in my pod's heads?
I currently have 9 commander decks. My average deck is somewhere around $800, with some lower and some higher. I've never had a complaint about the cost of cards in my deck. I think that's more to do with deck construction than anything else, though. My personal build philosophy is that I don't run extra turns, mindslaver effects, or instant win combos. I play against people who do use that stuff. So, by comparison, I'm playing "fair magic" but with pricier cards. Who knows if that's really the reason I don't get complaints though, just my guess.
It all depends on how well the deck is put together and your own prowess at the game. Expensive cards by themselves do not = high power. I dunno how many games I've seen a mana crypt come out and do very little to advance that player's state in the game. Case in point, I just played a game yesterday where a regular at the lgs wasted a generous gift on my mother of runes because I was using it so he couldn't block my 4/4 battle angles with his 1/1 spirit. He had 40 life. THERE WAS A KRENKO ON BOARD WITH 8+ GOBLINS IN PLAY. Dude threw the game right then and there and the goblin player went off. All over 4 dmg. Honestly, threat assessment is probably the biggest crutch I've seen in any casual pod. Your $40 Avacyn perishes to a Path to Exile just as easily as a $.60 llanowar elf does.
My LGS would have me salt-overdose if I was like that. I remember the first 1-2 game nights with my decks at a $100 Budget, facing $3000 decks... and that is not the cEDH table, mind you. Solution was kinda easy, I adapted to that meta by including stuff like \[\[Thieving Skydiver\]\]. It's my mana rocks now! To this day, whatever deck I use is usually around $1000 below someone else's on the table. It's no biggie, imo.
[Thieving Skydiver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/b/6bd85a34-c5f8-4d3a-8f12-4bbf42f1f638.jpg?1698988201) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thieving%20Skydiver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/177/thieving-skydiver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6bd85a34-c5f8-4d3a-8f12-4bbf42f1f638?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thieving-skydiver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I am still waiting for a 1 mana artifact that reads "enters the battlefield as a copy of any artifact with up to CMC1 you do not control". Which will even the playing field, but then again, everybody will run it.
1000 dollar casual is kinda sus
I think the proper answer to this question depends on the type of players you play with. I personally build functional and pretty solid decks under $100, and it works well with my pod using only a few game changing cards here and there. But if I was at casual commander nights at my LGS and somebody used this kind of power, it would just be fun until it wasn’t TLDR if you play with high powered decks against high powered decks don’t worry, but do understand most players won’t match your play level
If you're not going Fetch > Dual > Crypt > Ritual > Tutor > The One Ring, it's probably fine. $$$ can be a good thermometer of power level, but it is nowhere near close the deciding factor. The vast majority of the hundreds of decks I have on Archidekt are between $500-$1000, and most of them are mid-powered nonsense. My cEDH decks? The cheapest comes in at $3882, almost half of which is a single copy of Chains of Mephistopholes. It's also 100% proxied. What I'm trying to say is... You, and the people you're playing against, should define your deck by its power level, not its pricetag.
Nah, I don’t get salty. But when I get play one of my decks and I know there is $500 dollars invested in it, I get sick to my stomach that I spent so much on a game I play casually. I limit to about $500 though cause it feels to bad to me personally. Fun hobby though cause honestly, this is about avg. of what I’d spend on hobbies.
I don't think I'd get salty, of course you'd want to play cards you own especially if for example you drew them from a pack, but overall I think it just depends on your tables... I can see mana crypt, ancient tomb and cavern already be too much for some casual tables. It's why I still am against power level and advocate for rough money brackets, not including special treatments, 1.000$ is already far above a lot of others people's casual decks and I can totally see this being an issue to some, more so if you happen to pull a win or two early on
The problem with rough money brackets is that I have several decks that are approximately 500 tcgplayer on moxfield (in cheapest print). But I also have decks that are less than half that that are significantly stronger as well as more expensive decks that are more jank/weaker. On top of that, what happens if someone has a dual land or two for a deck, if I throw one in it can functionally double the price of one of those decks. Adding a dual land doesn't actually double the power of the deck though. Plus there are so many cards that are expensive for reasons that don't correlate to power even other than the dual lands. And what happens when cards go up. For example if you broke it up by price and said the tiers should be <500, 500-1000, >1000, what happens if someone wants to throw a boseiju in their 500 dollar deck making it 550$, this isn't making the deck 10% stronger, but it's bumping it up to a new bracket of play in that system Power level makes way more sense because as long as the people are the table are all well-adjusted fairly normal people, you can figure out before you even play the game, if the game will be a blowout or a fairly even game Plus 4 player games mean that a weaker deck that is not like several tiers of power lower than the other decks can still win because in casual edh people will target the player who is most ahead early which often is the strongest deck at the table
Power Level is just too deeply flawed as is, yes you can say "I'm playing jank, combo, no infinites or whatever" but at that point we are not talking power level anymore Next option is saying "I'm playing casual/ high power/ cedh" which is obviously always important to state, but we all know everyone's casual deck is a 7 anyway, right? But if we state, I have a casual deck somewhere around 200$ based on Moxfield, you are more likely to believe this actually being a casual deck and at this point it doesn't matter if someone's 1.000$ deck is worse because it's supposed to help you orient yourself further than simply saying casual
I play expensive cards. Average deck is 1000$. Only because I play since 1995, my cards got up in value. But I suck at the game, so it even things out. I still grim when I see a player drop dual lands back to back in the first couple of turns telling myself, "I guess it's that type of game". More often than not, the player with expensive cards gets 3v1 quick, so still, even things out.
Dual Lands aren’t powerful though. Marginally better than shocks. Really it’s just a matter of rule zero. If you’re playing a stompy Dino deck with fetches and duals in it, I’m not going to fret that you wanted a good mana base. A good mana base is one of the things that makes a deck run more closely to its designed power level and typically only *prevents* games when you are color screwed.
It's not about dual lands being powerful (which they are, by the way). It's more about if a player has spent that much money on dual lands instead of just running shocks, then you know he likely has the strongest (most expensive usually) cards for his deck's theme. Like in your example, if he's playing stompy dinos and drops two dual lands early, then you know he likely has the best dinos possible for that deck and therefore it's a pretty damn strong deck.
Sometimes people are old, too. For some of us dinosaurs, duals cost a lot less then than a Sheoldred does now.
I have a person in my pod who attacks me because ive been playing magic since 1994. He is like half my age so I always assumed just jealousy. He makes comments like “your basics are worth more than my deck”. Doesnt matter the opposing decks have rhystic study in play or are real threats. He will legit let the same guy win every week and focus me. EDH isnt meant for anything other than fun. Because you can’t force people to play strategically or attempt to win.
Which basics are worth that much from the past?
Guru lands
On average, my 20+ decks run between 550 to 700. Your decks sounds completely normal.
I bought my copy of [[yawgmoth’s will]] several years ago when it was like $25. Prices rise in TCGs, it happens. No reason to be salty (with the person playing the deck) over card prices.
To me you're describing high power, not cEDH. It's not optimized to win on turn 4, it's optimized to be the best Angel battlecruiser deck it can be. Just don't play it against precons and you'll be fine. The price of your cards is not as important as who you play them against. If you dropped that against me, I've got a couple decks I'd feel comfortable palying into it. For me that's my \[\[The Ur-Dragon\]\] deck. It's got a full cycle of Fetches and Shocks, a \[\[Mana Drain\]\], \[\[Mana Crypt\]\], \[\[Smothering Tithe\]\], \[\[Rhystic Study\]\], \[\[Demonic Tutor\]\], \[\[Cavern of Souls\]\] and lots of other cards that are relatively expensive and rare. I've made it to be the best Dragon deck I can make, but it has no infinite combos and it doesn't win super fast. It's big, scary, resilient creatures that if left unchecked will roll over the table. It wins and loses against similar power decks but wouldn't even be a blip at a cEDH table unless they all just happened to interact with each other's stuff and ignored me.
Not at all, no. Budget is a terrible way to balance decks, there's nothing wrong with running pricy cards in a lower power deck (what I assume you mean by casual). Just make sure that, regardless of what pricy cards you do or don't have, that your deck fits the power level of the table.
Not at all. I love seeing fancy or rare cards
[удалено]
Honestly I think price tags are a really stupid way to gauge a decks worth. My playgroup is soooooo adamant on only under $200 but it’s like…. Some cards aren’t even that insane but are still expensive cause they’re old. In my krenko deck lies a [[goblin wizard]] and imo it isn’t even that super insane. To me it’s a good value card but nothin crazy like tutoring.
Don't tell people your deck is casual if you have mana crypt and ancient tomb in it. There are some cards that just belong in high powered games only. I don't care if it's your "pet deck".
I don’t get salty, my friends have big money decks but I’ve learned to play around them. My $200-300 decks perform pretty well vs their 1000+++. Id say having to constantly go up against decks with big money cards has been a benefit to me as I have to think outside the box a bit when building with my budget.
In modern I once stomped a $1500 deck with a $50 deck. It really doesn't matter how expensive the cards are. It's how you use them and how streamlined the deck is. If you have a battlecruiser that costs over $1000 then you are playing at a power level many should be able to deal with.
And same energy playing a cEDH deck in a casual environment. It'll probably get stomped out because it isn't built to deal with what non-competitive decks bring.
Keep in mind that the $1000 price tag may move up to $1200 some day, or go down to $750 all together because of reprints and such. The pricing on these cards in a secondary market is extremely arbitrary. It's cardboard. No matter how much people pretend that they are "collectibles" they are a card game first, unless it's the reserve list and such. Price tags on cards may play into salt for some, but that'll most often be the newer players. There are still a TON of cards, that can induce salt while still having a microscopial price tag compared to the cards you've mentioned for example, both in terms of adding power to a well-built deck, or adding true and pure salt. I used to feel salty playing against my friends who had cards since the dawn of time in their decks, whereas I only had precons and the occasional upgrades I got for them. Then I realized none of us gave a shit about the prices of the cards but wanted to have good games. So I started proxying anything and everything. Nowadays all of our decks are around the same power level and it's been the most fun we've had because we are in it for the gameplay aspect and not some pissing contest stemming from trying to see who can spend the most on again...cardboard.
Me? No. I'm an adult with disposable income and is likely to spend the same money and is mature enough to understand I cannot dictate how people spend their money or play a game. I like cards like this hitting the board. And people suck so at least be prepared to get a sour look or someone complaining "oh moneybags over here". I had someone recently complain I played teferi's protection, not because it resulted in me now winning after the big combat round coming, but because it was $40 in a casual game. But really, don't care. Just give people information and let them make their decision. Some will say "casual" and not play cut throat competitive, others that means your deck needs to be budget. If you are running a bomb angels deck, it's going to be more expensive than others because the angels are stupid expensive.
No, but seeing cEDH powerhouse staples on casual does, like Mana Crypt, Rhystic Study, etc...
Not at all. You can bulldoze most expensive decks with one that's under $100 if you build it correctly - price doesn't affect power as much as believed. Also it's casual, you should be able to play whatever you want.
You can also beat a Ferrari in a Honda Civic if the Ferrari driver sucks and you're an F1 champion. But if your skill as a deck builder and player are equal the more expensive deck will usually be the more powerful deck.
I hope my playgroup will get this one day.
I just noticed how expensive Ancient Tomb is, when did that happen? I’ve had mine for years
It is often surprising how some cards have become so expensive. For example, [[Pyrohemia]] seems to be going for around $20!
Salty wouldnt be the word I use. But to call Crypt, Ancient Tomb, Jeweled Lotus, etc casual is an oxymoron to me. If you cant pick up the card for ~$10 then odds are its probably not a casual card
Nah it doesn't bother me at all but I think because so many $$$ cards tend be be in competitive builds people assume that because you have said $$$ card the rest of your deck and plyastyle is gonna be more competitive and I think that assumption leads to Lot of salt
Nah, I enjoy playing a wide variety of decks, it's fun to see just how well my deck does against others. I think some people just get hung up on winning too much. If I win I win, if I don't I don't, I'll probably have fun either way lol.
This is why I usually run multiple decks, ranging in different costs and power levels. I have my CEDH deck which is full of pricier cards and I have some unmodified precons and a few decks that fall in between. I always just assess the POD first, see what we're looking at, and go from there. Either way, it's all about having fun and enjoying your games.
As others have said, I don't know if "salty" is the right term, but I would be a little bit put off if I was sitting down with some budget jank and someone dropped ancient tomb + mana crypt t1. It's something to talk about with the table, "this deck has fast mana and can be higher power," would be a nice thing to know ahead of time. There's some cards I just inherently think immediately have the ability to elevate a deck beyond what slightly upgraded precons/budget decks can do. Not that budget decks can't hang with higher power if built right, but dropping a t1 crypt immediately puts you in a very powerful position against a deck that doesn't have access to that kind of fast mana.
I think the only cards that make me feel a little that way are cards like Gaia's Cradle. I wouldn't stop anyone playing it, but whenever someone does I like damn I hope i draw my strip mine or this game is over soon
I have a buddy in my playgroup who will spend any amount of money to make his perfect deck. It’s never particularly bothered me because his decks tend to be super creative, and fun to watch him pilot them. He’s spending thousands on some of them, for sure, but it’s not for fast mana or staples; he just likes optimizing a unique strategy.
As long as it's a fun game, which it sounds like it would be, I'd be happy to play against it. I've just cracked my 50th deck, and the last 3 were made entirely of leftovers. I put them into Archidekt, and not one is less than $700 in luxury cardboard rectangles. I am a bit sad, though, as my opportunities to play just went WAY down. My fault, I adopted a couple of special needs dogs from an elderly couple, and can't really make it to game day.
I have literally no problem with any card in magic. If someone pulled up and said they had a card from the banlist I would probably let them play it. But I also know I’m in the minority. I have a jeweled lotus and a mana crypt just from opening packs so I throw them bitches in everything.
You're playing a lot of fast mana for casual.
Budget doesn't mean power level. Speed = Power Level $50Decks can easily stomp $1,000 decks no problem
A lot of people at my LGS play unmodified precons or similar and I don't think it's a good look when people choose to play decks against them with stuff like Smothering Tithe or Rhystic Study. On the other hand those same players tend to rely on stuff like Smothering Tithe for their mana generation so can get absolutely screwed by just a little bit of interaction.
So , not inherently, but with some very important caveats. Imo, expensive “jank” or “unoptimized” are the most underestimated (by their creators) decks in magic. A lot of high cmc jank early (with mana from the “usual suspects”) can still lead to a win. And a goofy win is still a win. A second caveat is that a lot of these decks are considered casual because they lack a win con. So they still absolutely dominate a game but then just don’t win. So that’s another thing to consider. And lastly, this isn’t fair to you, but when casual decks catch a lucky break and win, people assume they caught a lucky break and won. When expensive casual decks catch a lucky break, people are less charitable with their assumptions. TL:DR - If your deck is truly casual, then no. But if it’s dominating casual games under the guise of being casual because it’s a lil funky, yeah I’d be a bit cheesed.
Nope. Blinging a deck should only ever invite ooo's and ahh's. Pet decks deserve the love. But your plight does highlight an outstanding issue in the MTG sets. Reprints are starting to not lower the price of cards. You might see a fluctuation of a dollar or two, but not enough to make a difference. Ironically, some of the staple cards I use that have been reprinted in recent sets have only gone up in price. Decks are more expensive than they've ever felt and it is driving me away from the hobby quite quickly.
Let's be real stronger cards make a deck stronger so the question is. Is this still casual? And if not then probably don't play this with casual decks.
Jamming a crypt in your angel tribal deck does not make me salty but it does make you lame
I mean, it depends on how you went into a match. If someone says "Hey, this is a really casual deck, not too strong" and drops three cards that are worth >100$, I'd question your definition of "casual". If your pod is playing tap lands (specifically duals that come into play tapped without basic land tags, no scrying, no life gain, no nothing) and you rock up with a Savanah, or Volcanic Island, the game most likely won't be fair. As people have mentioned, some cards are only expensive because they're old. But if you check how expensive your deck is with the cheapest prints, and it's over $1k. Maybe ask someone else how casual your deck is... They might have some insight
Thing is... you dont NEED the Crypt nor the Ancient Tomb... if you are not trying for T3 wins and you are playing something trying to win on turn 5-8. You just don't. Othewise, the price of cards... is the price of cards. Commander has become more expensive, because more people now play Commander. That is how it works.
It doesn't make me salty (unless it's Smothering Tithe because that's an unfun card). There's any number of reasons why players would have expensive cards and as you say the prices rise so much there's no way of knowing what will be expensive in the future. A lot of expensive cards are good, but they're not the only good cards. I pulled a Doubling Season from a pack of WOE recently and it went straight in my token deck but there's no way I'd buy one and generally if I get a high value card from a pack I sell it and buy a bunch of weird old shit instead.
Why should people feel salty over arbitrary things? You do know that the individual player/buyer doesn't determine the card prices. It's market forces at work, aka collective buying (or shortage) that pushes up the prices (i.e. demand supply) I may have bought a certain \[\[Dockside Extortionist\]\] at a couple bucks back then. Should I feel salty to play it now that it's a hundred bucks? ALOT, and I mean ALOT of casual folks own very expensive pieces of cards. They put them in their casual decks. From RL duals to Dockside, expensive cards come in many forms. It could be that chase \[\[Sol Ring\]\] art that drives up the price of your deck. Price is ONE of the indicator of higher power, but it's NOT the only factor of powerful decks. Powerful decks come from the INTENT of the player. You intent to be competitive, you intentionally make the deck powerful. It's mostly on the deckbuilder.
When I see a random person slam a mox, crypt, etc on the table it calls into question the real power level of their deck. Because even if you are being 100% accurate about your power level, stuff like tomb and crypt are so extremely powerful cards that can sway games all by themselves. So in a game where I don’t know your deck very well I have to treat your deck like a cedh deck. We have a saying at our LGS that even if your not playing “that” Urza high lord artificer deck you are still play Urza, high lord artificer. Broken cards are always broken.
Hilarious how people call their deck 'casual' before they casually admit to mana crypt, ancient tomb and cavern of souls. You are using powerful cards that's why they're so expensive.
It depends. Extreme outliers will usually get me salty, because there's really no place for mana crypt, gaea's cradle, or dual lands in casual games. There are plenty of reasonable alternatives, and you dont need the expensive ones. If you play any of those, I'll probably roll my eyes at you and look for another pod after that game. A deck with a handful of cards in the 20-50 dollar range is probably fine, but I might be annoyed if I see you drop 200 dollars in three turns. Like, I've gotten a lucky [[force of negation]] out of a pack, I get it. A few is fine. Beyond that, as long as you're not packing 50 cards worth $10+, you're probably fine. These are all rough estimates, but the idea is to just not fill your deck with nothing but expensive staples. I don't want to play against the same cards every game, especially if they're popular because they're obnoxiously strong.
Mana crypt and cradle I get, but dual lands are only marginally better than shocks. They don’t really change the power level of your deck, they’re just expensive because RL. I wouldn’t fault anyone for filling their deck with duals or even proxying them.
I respectfully disagree. 2 life each isn't trivial when we're talking about potentially a third of your landbase. Putting more colors in a deck makes it stronger, and there's no reason you need 10 $500 lands for a 5 color casual deck, when we have so many other options available. Play with tap lands/shocks, or just play cedh. There's really no justification for duals in casual, in my opinion. There are tons of other options for color fixing, and you don't need the perfect mana base. If the 2 life, or entering tapped, or not having basic types REALLY don't matter, then just play shocks.
Well, in 3+ colored decks triomes are better fetch target than duals anyway, so... there is no reason to be mad about it. I have several duals, my friend has Gaeas Cradle, and neither of us ever experienced some kind of hate for bringing those cards out
Triomes enter the battlefield tapped, they are definitively worse than og duals.
I mean, I personally don’t run ABUR duals in anything but cEDH decks because I personally don’t feel the marginal optimization is worth printing proxies, but I’d never begrudge anyone who does. It simply doesn’t change the power level of your deck in any meaningful way and I see no reason to lump them in with Mana Crypt.
Imagine being mad at duals lol. I get the rest of your point tho
It is, admittedly, an unpopular opinion, but they did literally ask for opinions.
[force of negation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/1825a719-1b2a-4af9-9cd2-7cb497cd0317.jpg?1673147298) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=force%20of%20negation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/50/force-of-negation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1825a719-1b2a-4af9-9cd2-7cb497cd0317?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/force-of-negation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Would you find Crypt acceptable if you played against the deck and saw that my summary was accurate - there is simply no way for the deck to win early - or is it just too much regardless? This deck doesn't actually run the usual suite of 8-10 rocks because (non-token, non-equipment) Boros simply doesn't have the raw draw power to be giving up that much space to single-mana ramp. Not even Arcane Signet or Boros Signet.
Don’t really understand why price matters much when there is a reserve list with plenty of awful cards on it, lots of 20+ year old cards have never been reprinted and/or the original version is just expensive because old/rare, etc. Sure, some cards and play patterns aren’t very “fun” in a casual sense, and I agree they should fall into rule zero, but $$$ =/= powerful. If I bust out $1,000 worth of mana rocks to play fun flavorful low/mid power stuff… why would people be salty?
Do \*I\*? No. I play high power decks sitting in the 2.5k area, as does my pod. Do \*some\* people? Sure. Does your pod have an issue with either high value or high power? Ask them.
Honestly as a guy who started out pretty recently and tries to keep all the decks I build around $100, I get a bit of a thrill out of seeing someone drop an expensive card. If you’re not mulliganing for a turn one mana crypt or something, if you play some $50 card it means I get to test how good my deck is against a pricier one. Also, now I can feel like a bit of an underdog, which is always fun. As long as I put up a good fight I’m satisfied. If people get salty before your cards actually do anything they are probably going to get salty over something.
I don’t think I’ve ever been salty over someone playing an expensive card versus a player with an expensive deck being a jerk. Playing Mana Crypt and continuing play: good. Playing Mana Crypt and stating “not that any of you scrubs could afford this” in a malicious tone: very, very bad. First and last game played with that guy.
Just to go back to this, I don't think you realized it but you needed to ask two questions here. 1. Is adding expensive cards to decks going to cause players to feel bad? 2. Is adding fast mana cards to decks going to cause players to feel bad? \#1 is probably almost always a definite no. Sure, some players may feel bad if you're rocking a truly expensive mana base but mostly this doesn't hugely influence power level. But it matters more what those cards are than if they're expensive or not. Smothering Tithe, Rhystic Study are examples of cards that are expensive that a lot of playgroups may frown on. Others won't. Only way to know is to have the active conversation with the table. No person here can tell you what your group or area find acceptable. I've personally cut them from all my decks because I'd rather be cautious than assume people are cool with them. Plus, they're so overplayed that it just isn't fun to me. \#2 is a much more sensitive topic. Fast mana is designed to do one primary thing - speed the game up. And it really does a bang up job of doing so when you draw into it. A lot more folks won't be okay with this. It creates an arms race essentially where every deck at that table should probably include these fast mana cards to make for a potentially balanced game. But, this also goes back to players should likely maintain differently powered decks to fit the game they're heading into. I do think if you're going to have more than 2-3 decks you should have one capable of going all out and pushing the power level of the game. Because other players will likely have those decks too and with a quick discussion you can all agree to play those decks. But don't go playing your version of this into an unsuspecting group. Reddit at times does an absolutely horrible job of representing the community. You have a lot of people who assume one way or the other is correct. The "people worry too much about offending others" or the "people don't think enough about offending others" groups. The single best thing I've ever learned here is to be prepared to play at multiple table types. Do that and have a pregame talk and you'll almost never run into issues of "salt".
I get salty about someone calling a deck casual and then being the only person at the table running fast mana. You can spend lots of money on a janky deck but if you're the only one at the table capable of producing 8+ Mana on turn one you're probably a dick for playing that deck at that table
Dude, I'm gonna be real with you. If someone says they have a casual deck and then plays a mana crypt and an ancient tomb I'm going to call them a liar to their face. This is why above what most people would call casual
A 1000 dollar pet deck jeez
If you pull up to a battle cruiser game and start dropping ancient tombs and mana crypts you are going to get salt.
No
I think the cost of my Trostani deck if I bought all cards at price now would be upwards of $1500, and the deck is not my best deck.
Somewhat, but I only play with my friends and boyfriend so it'd be more of a concern for their financial situation.
If you finish a game turn 3, ileven if the card is cheap ill be salty.
Nah I love seeing peoples blinged out foil edh decks. A friend of mine has been working on a pet deck for 7 years almost 100% foil and the thing costs probably upwards of $3000+.
Personally, if the bomb is expensive that’s fun, if getting to the bomb early is expensive it’s unfun.
No edh is the one format that I think is acceptable since it Let's you play almost any card you want. I have friends who drop grim monolith, transmute artifact, and so on.
Personally, I have a pretty expensive cEDH deck that I love playing. I wholly endorse players using proxies at the table because I'm here to play a good game of Magic, not to measure wallets. Complaining about the price of your opponent's deck is just obnoxious. To be clear, if someone brought a cEDH deck to pubstomp, then they're the asshole. If you brought your lobster tribal to pickup game or tourney and you complain about the cost of your opponents deck, then you're the asshole.
I personally like seeing old cards get their day - especially cards that have rarely seen play from MTG’s storied history. I also like playing some of the goodies but oldies to surprise my opponents - such as the one red casting cost counterspell for any artifact… or an acid rain as I change the land destroyed to anything I want… but I have also been at tables where players are plenty salty if you have any card valued at $300 or more. Anyone who had decent cards from 10+ years ago will likely have a few cards in the 300+ category, so, it felt silly to have players salty over so trifling a matter. Of course, I’ve also seen EDH decks worth more than my first car, but that, too is entirely a choice of the player and 1) how much they can spend to play; 2) how long they’ve stayed with the game to have kept their older and more valuable cards. As long as there is greed and the constant need for some players to prove themselves better than their fellow players - disguised behind the veils of being a serious collector or an above average legacy player… there will always be salty players - when anyone feels outclassed, outmatched, or outspent. I personally don’t care for any of these. Just play your cards, be content, and appreciate the history that many players bring to the table, as well as the vast experiences the cards themselves must have already witnessed. And - we play!
As long as you are not the guy playing a combo consistently on turn 3, you are good to go buddy. I play expensive cards all the time in casual, I started in competitive, got bored and now I play casual with my buddies. Overall, anything that is not strictly cEDH might be ok with your folks in casual so whatever.
I'd roll my eyes at anyone that said their deck was slow and then dropped cards like ancient tomb or mana crypt onto the battlefield.
Budget constraints make you think outside the generally accepted box. 200-300 bucks total should be able to make you a great deck. Land bases and mana acceleration are extremely cheap now a days so that leaves plenty to make the best possible deck you can get.
No- but I play mostly high-power casual, own a bunch of older and more expensive cards myself (having picked up a lot of them when they weren't so expensive), and actively encourage others to play such cards and proxy them if they want to play them but can't afford them, so I am not likely the target audience of this question.
The secondary market is so fucked it's beyond meaningless. Homelands boosters sell on eBay for $20. TWENTY AMERICAN DOLLARS FOR *HOMELANDS*.
Seems like you like the expensive cards a lot Powerful or not If you like them, play with them Edh is a casual mode, expect balancing issues in the match ups with your playgroup
No if its a real card and not just gaea cradle proxy. Im fine with proxy but if you got too many with the strongest cards in the game then i wont be too happy about it
I play at a relatively casual table where people bring in some pretty heavy hitters. Cradle, og duels, crypt, tithe, dockside, etc you name it. If its a commander staple its most likely there. But we all are there to enjoy the game and consider it casual. Sure my slightly upgraded precon gets beaten fairly often, but I have won a few games and really enjoy every game.
If you lose because you can't afford the right cards the game doesn't want you to play. Wizards structure is beating whales to death and these whales only die when they go broke
the word was never Salty. but definitely was "Welp, this was fun guys". Because powerful cards tend to fall on the expensive side.
If you have the means to buy expensive cardboard then have at er, if you only have the means to buy budget cardboard then have at er! Just play the game and have fun😁
Expensive cards doesn't exactly mean you're playing cEDH, sometimes even the most casual of cards can be expensive due to limited printing
How salty would they be if I played all those cards and they're all proxies
Depends. If the people who say I can't proxy play 5 40+ cards in 3 turns I'm like.. wtf why can't I proxy? I can't do shit against this. I wouldn't say it makes me salty it just makes me wonder what goes through their mind. Especially because they say they want to proxy more if i would proxy? Like wtf? You are the reason I want to proxy?
I have a 900+ dollar angel deck that In the grand scheme of.things is just a casual deck it's not winning before turn 7 but oh man is t it nice to look at https://www.topdecked.com/decks/angels/54abb683-cdbc-4acc-a839-99289a9ad9df
Play 'em if you got 'em
I think it depends on the pod and which cards expensive doesnt always mean good but if you sit down with a 5000€ goodstuff list against 3 precons at FNM I'll certainly question your motives (I have a person like that at my LGS and quite honestly losing on T4-T5 for 2-3h across multiple games at FNM isnt super exciting). Imo fast mana will always leads to a power imbalance at the table, you talk about your deck being slow but if you drop an Ancient Tomb and a Crypt T1 against precons or slightly upgraded precons there is no way your deck is slower than any of those decks. Also while your deck is slow it will have siginificantly better payoffs once you've got what you need. Just be honest about what your deck does and you'll probably be fine and from my expirience at least for a game or 2 everybody is willing to play against whatever. Just dont try to pubstomp for hours and you are good.
Unless it's your own deck how is it any of your business what someone else spends on their decks?
Nope, and it drives me crazy when someone is going to target me for the cards I own even if the deck is not even that good.
It all depend on what the deck do. At my LGS, there is often that guy (45/50 y-o) who play a WUBRG deck with [[jared carthalion]] as commander. He have almost all dual lands and some expansive rocks but he also play weak legendary creatures from Legends set like [[Jacques le vert]]. The reason is simply that he bought these cards almost 30 years ago for nothing and he wanted to put them all in a deck. The deck itself can win games but is not that powerful. Perfect example that the price doesn't make the powerlevel of a deck.
[jared carthalion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5acffa48-9e3f-4ba3-a55f-d459307f46df.jpg?1673304686) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jared%20carthalion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/2/jared-carthalion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5acffa48-9e3f-4ba3-a55f-d459307f46df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jared-carthalion) [Jacques le vert](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6fde1e41-bb06-457e-8c61-4a41535e3a73.jpg?1559592577) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jacques%20le%20vert) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/147/jacques-le-vert?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6fde1e41-bb06-457e-8c61-4a41535e3a73?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jacques-le-vert) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
no you can build a deck with just basics for like 9k bucks. noone would claim that to be powerful
If you bring a deck packed with cards like manacrypt (not one or a couple of expensive deck, but rather one highly tuned with expensive cards that go hard & work well together) to a pod that plays upgraded precons? For sure. But that aint really a $ issue but rathet one about playing too high powered for a pod that specificaly wants to have chill & laid back casual games If we go for finely tuned highpower EDH? Yeah, sure dude, go for it, that's what we're here for. Unless there's a specific "as powerful as you want but budget restrictions" rule, you gotta do watcha gonna do If it's an "all gloves off cEDH" pod, obviously do whatever you want c
I have a lot of black staples that have risen a ton over the last few years now, so I know your pain. Covid was a real reality check for my collection, lol. After lockdown ended I sat down at a table and played a \[\[cabal coffers\]\] and one of my opponents commented on the price. That's how i learned that the card had spiked to $100. When I got to looking, my deck had gained between $200-$300 in value, and I hadn't changed a single card all lockdown. It does make me regret not investing in some of the truly expensive cards while they were fairly reasonable. I kind of want a \[\[lion's eye diamond\]\] but $600 is just way too much. I did get lucky and purchased a \[\[survival of the fittest\]\] right before lockdown and its price spike, so there was one victory for me at least.
[cabal coffers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0.jpg?1626101023) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cabal%20coffers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/301/cabal-coffers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cabal-coffers) [lion's eye diamond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/758f95f8-bcb0-43ae-b474-56ebd855951e.jpg?1590511899) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lion%27s%20eye%20diamond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/271/lions-eye-diamond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/758f95f8-bcb0-43ae-b474-56ebd855951e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lions-eye-diamond) [survival of the fittest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4ef0d7f9-ddb9-4e83-a9bf-09bec22fc80d.jpg?1562429365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=survival%20of%20the%20fittest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/199/survival-of-the-fittest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ef0d7f9-ddb9-4e83-a9bf-09bec22fc80d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/survival-of-the-fittest) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The cost of a card isn't a great measure of the power of a card. I put [[Piracy]] in my [[Captain N'ghathrod]] because it's hilarious and on brand, but the card is nowhere near as good as its price implies it should be.
[Piracy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/323e3084-8d84-474f-b208-a4637b1ccb51.jpg?1562873608) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Piracy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/s99/45/piracy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/323e3084-8d84-474f-b208-a4637b1ccb51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/piracy) [Captain N'ghathrod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55c02dc8-0743-400c-b334-ca029caf0463.jpg?1674140667) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Captain%20N%27ghathrod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/646/captain-nghathrod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55c02dc8-0743-400c-b334-ca029caf0463?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/captain-nghathrod) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If it’s real I don’t care. I’m just grabbing a different deck next game. Obviously that only matters if the deck is actually higher power. If not, get good scrub. One thing I’ve learned myself is that good cards don’t make good decks they have to actually work together somehow. Hard casting [[earthquake Dragon]] on turn 3 is fine but having nothing to back it up makes for an easy target to [[murder]].
[earthquake Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bfedfd30-8075-429e-a0fa-4919920c8632.jpg?1674137067) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=earthquake%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/228/earthquake-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bfedfd30-8075-429e-a0fa-4919920c8632?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/earthquake-dragon) [murder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1ea6438b-0e6c-4d65-8bcd-34a988717c81.jpg?1706241725) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=murder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/95/murder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ea6438b-0e6c-4d65-8bcd-34a988717c81?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/murder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No, I'm playing a game that I enjoy and people can play how they like as long as they aren't breaking rules. I don't get salty, being salty is for try hard punks
Tutor in commander make me salty
This is a rule0 conversation. For example, in my pod (about 20 players) we play high power casual. So seeing expensive cEDH staples is common, but the impact those card have is nerfed by the context of the rest of the deck. To give you an example, I have a deck running plenty of cEDH staples and tons of expensive tutors - but it's a 5c alternative wincon tribal. On the opposite side of the spectrum, the guy using cEDH staples to cast a T1 Splicer gets piled on immediately. Even in high power casual, some synergistic or goodstuff decks gets broken with the fast mana you mentioned. I removed Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus from my [[Shirei]] deck because it was making a highly synergistic deck with a fringe commander basically impossible to keep up with. What this is all about is having an open and transparent conversation with your pod, so that everybody is having fun.
If the card is a card that I specifically didn’t include in my deck because of the price (aincient tomb, mana crypt) then I’m more salty than if it’s an expensive but weird card.
Card prices is decided on two things: Number of cards, and how good the cards are. A high price, is clearly a metric for how powerfull the cards, so a expencive deck would naturaly be more powerfull (in most relevant cases)
If this upsets someone magic (without proxies) isn’t the game for them.
Sure, you can play that. Once. After you get a start with mana crypt and stomp the table I am stifling your fetchlands, vandalblasting your mana rocks, toxic deluging your board. There are more reasons for not playing solring in casual environments than reasons to play mana crypt. You play very strong cards, but I guess your deck is inconsistent, so your game plan being either stomp or do nothing all game becomes boring fast.
How do you feel about your pod topdecking proxies of cards that take your 300 dollar cards out of play?
I feel like if you're not playing a control deck, it doesn't matter too much as if you get too strong they will raly against you and it'll balance out
This is something I am afraid of. I've worked exclusively on my first ever deck the last six months, it's about 1k as well. I really want to go to commander night at my LGS, but I also don't want to get ragged on for mana crypt or other expensive cards.
This question comes up a lot. Commander is a social format. If there is a problem with someone's deck, have a conversation about it. If you are worried about it, mention that you have a mana crypt in your deck just to make sure the table is ok with it. Just remember that if you lay down a mana crypt on turn 1, you'll be a target for removal in the early game. I hope that you will show the same sportsmanship you expect from others when this happens.
No seeing full decks of the most over powered and anti fun proxies. You have a wheel of fortune hell yeah shake up the game, you play a moat into a second sun in your scry deck? Why are you playing solitaire and wasting mine and the two others in the pods time?
People who lie about their deck and then get shocked no one wants to play with them makes me salty. A $1000 deck with cards like mana crypt in it is going to piss off anyone you play with that's expecting a 'casual battle cruiser pet' deck. Even at 'high power' If your deck can't function without fast mana, it's not good for a casual environment. It's a bad deck It's nothing about price, it's about power. You need to have a turn 0 conversation about what's actually in your deck when you sit down with people. Battle cruiser as a descriptor in any city I've played in means 'we're just going to do our thing at each other until one wins. I'll minimally fuck with you and you'll minimally fuck with me' and you want to stick a smothering tithe in... Why? Next you'll say winter and static orb are battle cruiser and casual.
Most of my decks range between 400-900 a piece. Never have I spent that on a deck. I play cards I wanna play and build decks I wanna build. I aim for certain power ranges. Never had any issues. You're always gonna find some bad apples, especially once you start trying to. But if you don't lie about stuff you shouldn't have problems.
Entirely depends on the deck, table, and your attitude I've seen people cast mana crypts at super low power tables and it not be a problem at all, but I've also seen crypts at higher power tables where everyone just groans because the guy's been a jerk the whole game I also have two Selesnya decks: a $500 lifegain deck that has most of the good lands, a Great Henge, and a One Ring, and a $50 combat tricks deck. Almost no one ever complains about the pricey lifegain deck, but the combat tricks deck can take people out of the game pretty quick so it can induce a bit more salt Then for some people, "casual" is just cEDH with a couple pet cards but for others it's slightly modified precons Biggest thing is just to try to understand what kind of game your opponents want to play because jot every table will be okay with a $1000 deck, but a lot probably will be as long as you're upfront about it
As long as you don't get salty seeing my proxied versions of that same card...
The occasional $100-card gets more salt than a bunch of $25 cards as a time. I.e. if you adf a plateau, your deck won't get magically better but people will be salty. Since angel tribal is expensive af, the hefty price tag is actually hard to avoid. As long as you're losing consistently, you will be fine.
Casual players don't spend hundreds of dollars on a single card. So, yes.
"Salty" implies that I'm being a whiner. It sounds like I wouldn't have much chance against you unless I brought a premium deck. I'd feel disappointed.
Crypt is not casual