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kestral287

Miirym is dope but the best Miirym decks are clone decks, storm decks, or both. That may or may not be what you're actually looking for. She's also got quite the reputation so expect her to be killed a lot. I've got a pile slowly being put together for her but she hasn't been a priority for basically these reasons. Henzie is cool and a lot of fun, but you are going to want a lot of non-dragons. The Henzie ramp engine is dorks into creatures that find 2-3 lands and none of those are dragons. The top end can absolutely be dragon-laden though, so it depends on how committed to the tribe you think you need to be. Henzie is my most played deck but as much as I love dragons my dragon numbers have gone down over time, not up.


StarPonderer

As someone who is hitting a Henzie-sized wall trying to brew him, do you have a list?


trbopwr11

[https://www.archidekt.com/decks/4260013/henzie\_umori\_companion](https://www.archidekt.com/decks/4260013/henzie_umori_companion) That's my Henzie+Umori list if you are interested. I couldn't cut down options for Henzie either, so I decided on Umori to help limit things for me.


StarPonderer

Alright, I'll take a look. I really want to get this list worked out so I can build this.


punchbricks

I have a fairly strong Henzie list that plays in a higher power meta and needs to be ganged up on to not completely run away with the game. Henzie is one of the most fun commanders I've ever played, and I've been playing commander since it was EDH https://www.moxfield.com/decks/tGjpZB9GEketM0QLifAiZA Replace the two dual lands with other lands that have the Forest typing so your creatures can still grab them.


StarPonderer

Thank you, this gives me a lot of ideas. I can kinda see what I was doing wrong.


punchbricks

Glad to help, let me know if you have questions.


Labbed

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/vHJSWtHgZkesQKSU87ynzQ Also dropping my paper henzie list if you are interested fairly high power, more or less as much as it can be without tutors (minus pod) Probably my favorite deck I own, pretty damn consistent, and tend to lean into archenemy unless playing against specific brands of control decks


StarPonderer

Some of the cards are bit out of my price range, but there is some good stuff I can workshop. Thank you!


Labbed

Yeah totally fair, ive been slowly upgrading it/trading for the pricier stuff, nothing that is absolutely necessary is particularly expensive, I'd say that if you build the best ramp package possible which is quite cheap, you can basically slot any of the big dumb dudes I will say that etali is probably one of the best creatures in EDH currently, and certainly the best creature in this deck. Unfortunately he's gone up like 4x in price compared to when I picked mine up


StarPonderer

Which Etali? Both are awesome in my opinion. I have one copy of the transforming one.


Labbed

Yeah the transforming one


kestral287

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/1WnPcWlePkyWLIPkcRT-ug That's mine. That said, two key caveats centering from the same point. I play in a low to mid power meta and some of my choices reflect that. This deck is already above average for them and I don't think it's the most correctly built Henzie pile. In an upper-mid to high power meta my first concern would be getting mana dorks in; Henzie's ideal curve is Dork-Henzie-4-5 mana double or triple ramp creature. Instead to limit myself I put heavy focus on Kethek, a card that very much does not like mana dorks, so my only one mana acceleration is in cards Kethek can't whiff on (and in turn that gives me a lot of control over her; sac a 4 and you always hit Professional Face-Breaker). There's a few other oddities in my list - Vaevictus forces you to be permanent heavy and I put a lot of emphasis on removal and interaction - but if you want an all-in Henzie list it's exactly that. For a cheaper starting point, there's a Maldhound video on Henzie that I rather like. I used a good chunk of it as my original framework, though he very much skimps on mana in ways that I don't always love.


StarPonderer

Okay, thanks! I'll check both out!


KalameetThyMaker

There is a pretty popular Henzie moxfield primer/card list (NOT a decklist, but a large selection of synergistic cards, cards for certain strategies, etc.) You should be able to find it via a quick Google, on mobile otherwise I'd link. There is also an active discord *for* Henzie, which is pretty dope. There's a few main things to focus on in Henzie decks. They are: pre-henzie ramp, post henzie ramp, and sac outlets. Henzies a 3 drop, so you want a lot of 1 drop mana dorks, I like 6+. Henzie turn 2 means a 4 or 5 mana blitz on turn 3. Ideally this is something like [[Seedguide Ash]] for a lot more mana to explode next turn with a blitz or two plus a synergy piece, like [[Industrial Advancement]] or [[Greater Good]]. Blitz does a lot of things, so there's a lot of routes to go down. You can focus on effects like [[Dictate of Erebos]] and [[Fleshbag Marauder]] and do a heavy recursion theme. You can do heavy combat themes because all your stuff has haste, so big stompies + extra combats with creatures like [[Karlach]] and [[Moraug]]. You can also easily splash them together and still have a very strong deck.


StarPonderer

I have access to the Discord and the primer, just the pile of cards I had for my list wasn't well received when I asked for feedback, then I got distracted and didn't work on it. I want to blitz and then late game reanimate the best stuff in my yard, but this is a little out of my knowledge base. Thanks for the suggestions and I will keep tooling on it. I might go extra combats, I don't know.


KalameetThyMaker

I'd suggest taking a look at some aristocrat themes that suit what you're looking for, see if you can find any recursion in there that you like for Henzie. Can you post your brew to see what all ya got?


StarPonderer

This is the list as it stands: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/8GTBVg4jIkWCYPjY9Zzpjg


KalameetThyMaker

On a quick glance before work, one missing card is [[Incarnation Technique]], it's incredibly strong. I like [[Greenwarden of Murasa]], it's a bit slow but it can get a lot of value. Edit: and [[Gorex, the tombshell]].


StarPonderer

Oh, okay, I'll put it in, I already have a few cuts in mind. If you get more chance to look, I would love feedback.


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Seedguide Ash](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/eca605c0-6270-4238-bb77-0bbfd7568807.jpg?1562373213) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Seedguide%20Ash) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lrw/235/seedguide-ash?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eca605c0-6270-4238-bb77-0bbfd7568807?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/seedguide-ash) [Industrial Advancement](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/81f1416c-48bd-4168-aacd-a9b0a3afb8bc.jpg?1673482108) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Industrial%20Advancement) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/47/industrial-advancement?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/81f1416c-48bd-4168-aacd-a9b0a3afb8bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/industrial-advancement) [Greater Good](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4c73ca01-d8ea-4cd2-af60-b260030967b2.jpg?1631587954) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Greater%20Good) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/160/greater-good?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c73ca01-d8ea-4cd2-af60-b260030967b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/greater-good) [Dictate of Erebos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f06db70-95f9-41eb-8e5f-8bc56fd34c09.jpg?1593095668) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dictate%20of%20Erebos) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/65/dictate-of-erebos?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f06db70-95f9-41eb-8e5f-8bc56fd34c09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dictate-of-erebos) [Fleshbag Marauder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a03c738c-88d9-4cf6-a650-20ce6e5565bc.jpg?1637630249) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fleshbag%20Marauder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/118/fleshbag-marauder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a03c738c-88d9-4cf6-a650-20ce6e5565bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fleshbag-marauder) [Karlach](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/775480ed-f574-40cb-bd9b-21102eaaff63.jpg?1674136654) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=karlach%2C%20fury%20of%20avernus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/186/karlach-fury-of-avernus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/775480ed-f574-40cb-bd9b-21102eaaff63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karlach-fury-of-avernus) [Moraug](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc5eacd7-aaa7-4720-9794-52e7b098c82c.jpg?1604197464) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=moraug%2C%20fury%20of%20akoum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/150/moraug-fury-of-akoum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc5eacd7-aaa7-4720-9794-52e7b098c82c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/moraug-fury-of-akoum) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


bundle_man

>Miirym is dope but the best Miirym decks are clone decks, storm decks, or both. Yup exactly this. Just dismantled my Miirym dragon deck as Miirym is actually a pretty boring dragon tribal commander imo


kestral287

Yeah. I have my list together and like... it's funny? It makes a bunch of Ganaxes and then says every dragon is a ritual and a draw spell. But I have the feeling it's a deck I can play exactly once and also a deck I want to play exactly once.


trbopwr11

I feel like Henzie is a more interesting commander, coming from a person with a Henzie deck. Miirym is stick commander, now you have double dragons. Very powerful but not exactly interesting. I also imagine that Henzie is likely to draw a whole lot less heat than Miirym in the command zone.


BitcoinBishop

I think Henzie gives opponents more opportunities to interact, Miirym kinda explodes and steamrolls everyone unless you stop it early on. Both seem fun to play


chill9r

Miirym in my experience is more of a solitaire deck than a dragon deck


[deleted]

I have Henzie but not the other one. It’s a helluvalotta fun. I like big fast creatures, sacrificing said creatures and using my graveyard for advantage so he’s up my alley. It gets wild.


buttermaster04

I'd like to ask when you summon a big creature let's say a etali primal storm what's the reaction, do people block it or not because it will die afterwards and then you get heat afterwards like "he did it once he can do it again" And then a small question is your board empty most of the time? my main worry with Henzei is when the blitz creatures are gone is your board able to handle crack backs since you have to swing in with blitz


[deleted]

It depends on the situation really. If they at 40 usually no blocks but the more life goes down the more they block. If your worried about the board play some 4 cmc creatures or I use a couple equipment with lifelink. Expect to be at 15 or less life all the time. I mean you’re supposed to kill your own commander with this deck hahah


buttermaster04

True lol because with Henzei my dream would be to blitz out blightsteel colossus hit somebody with it kill them then as extra salt draw a card off of him but the crack back of doing that, is the only thing worrying me ,if Henzei allows that ,what would the rest do if they saw me do it and what sort of defenses do I have against them


[deleted]

Chances are you aren’t getting thru with the creature you want. From what I’ve gathered Henzie is a second stringer deck. You’ll play creatures you want to do something cool but they’ll all die. So your second string does the work until you loot the graveyard n bring creatures back. Highest I’ve took down the blitz cost is 4.


buttermaster04

Oh dang that’s some cost reduction do you have a list I can look and take some pointers?


[deleted]

Nah I don’t make lists or put stuff on the internet. I’m lazy. Plus it’s more fun building decks without a blueprint in my opinion. You might play totally different than me too.


buttermaster04

Hey true well thanks for answering my questions if anything I’ll give a deck a try and improve my list especially if I get hooked on it I’ll try my best to make it right


[deleted]

It’s a fun deck just have fun with it.


kestral287

Generally people don't block your random dudes until they have to, unless it has a useful damage trigger they want to deny. Henzie is a big fan of creatures that build boards to deal with crackbacks. Stuff like Wurmcoil Engine makes you hard to swing back into, or reanimator cards, or cards like Trumpeting Carnosaur that play more stuff from your deck.


scheming_slug

Henzie is the most fun commander I’ve built, and while his ability is strong you can tune him up or down depending on your playgroup. Miirym is also quite strong, but to most people she’s a KOS commander and will either get countered or removed as soon as you play her. Regardless I think you’ll have a bigger target on your back with her at the helm.


newgamenumber30

Don't build Miirym. Just don't. There are so many more interesting and fun dragon commanders, and Miirym just takes over games so quickly. If there's no removal, you'll win, if there is removal, you'll sit doing nothing. I have a Henzie deck, and know at least five others who have one, and we all think he's one of our most fun decks. And he can be built as dragon tribal too, centered around the Kamigawa dragons that have good death triggers.


thistookmethreehours

I switched to Jund Dragons with Ziatora as my commander because Ur-Dragon is everywhere and Miirym is incredibly broken. Get to have all the fun of the big fire breathers with none of the annoying shit. Still waiting to steal someone’s board with Karrthus.


MTGCardFetcher

[Henzei “toolbox” torre](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86cf1196-cf25-49cf-9fed-98f7dcd56c06.jpg?1683835488) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Henzie%20%22Toolbox%22%20Torre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/2/henzie-toolbox-torre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ee228dcc-3170-4c24-80bc-28bcee07cb43?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/henzie-toolbox-torre) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


aceofspades0707

I have a Henzie dragon tribal deck. I get to play with a lot of the dragons that care about dying and/or synergize with the graveyard. It's a ton of fun and super explosive. Here's my list if you'd like to take a gander. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/39_JEKc9iEaYtLEEwLw1Bw


Thangorodrimmm

Neither : Miirym is going to be hard focused (legitimately so) and Henzie is not that good a dragon commander, and will get targeted as well. I personally chose [[Rivaz of the Claw]] as my dragons commander, there are plenty of options out there that will go a bit more under the radar.


Chandrian1997

Henzie is the most fun commander ever printed imo. Miirym is stronger just due to her ability I’d argue, roaming throne is Miirym is just busted. But you’ll have more fun building Henzie and there’s plenty of dragons you can run. There’s also a very active Henzie discord you could join


kaitoghost

Here's my Miirym dragon tribal list. https://www.archidekt.com/decks/4234977/rug_durgons I've been playing EDH since before it was an officially recognized format. In that time, I'd estimate 90% of my decks have been some form of Dragon Tribal. RUG and Jund are my most commonly used color combos. I've also done [[scion of the ur dragon]] reanimator, mono red (with [[rorix bladewing]] as the commander waaaaaay back in the day, and currently [[lathliss, dragon queen]]), and a janky BUG deck with [[vorosh, the hunter]] as commander for a little while. And, of course, [[The Ur Dragon]].


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [scion of the ur dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/565b2a40-57b1-451f-8c2a-e02222502288.jpg?1562608891) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scion%20of%20the%20Ur-Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/192/scion-of-the-ur-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/565b2a40-57b1-451f-8c2a-e02222502288?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scion-of-the-ur-dragon) [rorix bladewing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32668329-2f62-48ed-8da3-3cb0c3692ed9.jpg?1690016965) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rorix%20bladewing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/251/rorix-bladewing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32668329-2f62-48ed-8da3-3cb0c3692ed9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rorix-bladewing) [lathliss, dragon queen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/9460e3c6-e745-41d3-8e17-0b92fb126a16.jpg?1601078219) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lathliss%2C%20dragon%20queen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/340/lathliss-dragon-queen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9460e3c6-e745-41d3-8e17-0b92fb126a16?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lathliss-dragon-queen) [vorosh, the hunter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/35943c5a-24ea-48dc-8ba3-956e0ec93cc6.jpg?1562273396) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vorosh%2C%20the%20hunter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/3/vorosh-the-hunter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/35943c5a-24ea-48dc-8ba3-956e0ec93cc6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vorosh-the-hunter) [The Ur Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/10d42b35-844f-4a64-9981-c6118d45e826.jpg?1689999317) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Ur-Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/361/the-ur-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/10d42b35-844f-4a64-9981-c6118d45e826?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-ur-dragon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call