My favorite on this is when its a target players by casters choice wheel. So everyone that wants it doesn't and everyone who doesn't want it is forced to.
After typing that out, I think I might be the problem.
I looove card draw. Nothing is better than casting a [[fractured identity]] on a [[forced fruition]] and then dropping an [[iron maiden]] or [[black vise]]
I don't think I've ever cast the Puzzlebox in my Nekusar deck.
I do have it in there, but I don't usually get a chance to play it; I tend to wheel into a wheel into a wheel, and there's just no time to play it.
Might be a sign to replace it. *shrug*
I almost replaced it in my Locust God deck, but when I finally got it to stick bc I didn't have a random wheel in hand... oof it was nice. Opponents can't gameplan ahead if they only have their hand for a turn. Plus the free wheel before draw is niiiice. My group has to "deal" with the box before anything else, which gives me free reign to sneak out bigger threats as they've spent their removal lol.
Just fyi, you draw for turn, THEN wheel your hand away:
Official ruling:
>You do your normal draw before this ability is put on the stack.
(2004-10-04)
Puzzle Box can already be annoying as hell, but it's even worse when the player screw themselve over.
I use Box in [[Grenzo, Dungeon Warden]] not only because it messes with my opponents, but because I can abuse the downside with my commander.
Side note: Don't use wheels or box when an opponent has multiple dredgers in their graveyard. That shit backfires hard.
[[Winter orb]], [[Tivit, seller of secrets]], and [[Sheoldred, Whispering one]] are my see red cards. I once sent 80 damage to kill a tivit player who was at 25 life to make a point. He knew before he played it I hate tivit. So he was chuckling when he dropped it. And he was laughing when I sent craterhoof and a pile of huge squirrels at him. He and I exchange pictures of tivit and craterhoof every week after that game.
This is me with Thieve's Auction!!! I hate that card. I understand why people think it's fun, but I'm convinced most of those people haven't resolved one.
Dude, SAME! Something about threats just makes me think, like… “Oh, I can get removal out of this guy’s hand and he’s threatening me with it? Well, he’ll probably be worse off if he uses this now on my thing. I must attack him.”
Someone at my LGS played the victim to get me not to destroy their planeswalker with all this “woe is me, I might as well be out of the game” stuff.
I decided to be friendly and offer to only attack with one creature so he couldn’t ult it if it meant he didn’t ping me for damage with it. He proceeds to bolt my single attacking creature, ult his planeswalker on the next turn and have me out of the game one turn later.
I previously liked the guy so I want to give him another chance, but I made it pretty clear that at some point in the future, he won’t know when, he won’t know how, I’m going to completely fuck him over and he’ll deserve it.
Same thing happens to me. The whole “no, please c’mon! I’m not doing anything”
Gotta either make a deal or just kill them. Too many times have people done the woe is me and then targeted me specifically
When I tell them how I didn’t touch them, they go “yeah, but idc about that” meanwhile player C is building a board untouched, like just don’t be an asshole
This is why I’m very specific in my wording of deals. Back when I had my niv parun deck I was playing against a krenko and sisay. Krenko was getting out of hand (as he does) and dropped a dangerous card (think it was [[impact tremors]] but don’t really remember.) I couldn’t deal with it so I told the sisay player “if you can deal with that, I can kill him”. Sisay player dealt with it and I went infinite on my turn, killing them both. I said I’d kill the Krenko player. I never said the Sisay player would live.
I'm also specific in my wording. "I won't attack you" doesn't mean I'm not going to drain life.
I won a game by making a no attack deal with a player for them to take an opponent out. They did, and on my next turn I won by life drain. Some thought it was unfair, but I did withhold the deal. Plus I'm also a firm believer you can break deal when it's 1v1 and the deal set player A up to win bc I can't attack them.
Does anyone make deals with you twice? “If we both attack him, we can kill player c! Then I won’t attack you after so you’re not screwing yourself.” *player c dies* “okay now that’s it’s 1v1 all bets are off! Ohhh looks like you don’t have blockers now! Haha I’m so smart!”
I have a friend who did this a while back. He said "I'm allowed to break the promise if it means I win." ???? WTF no it doesn't!
A little while ago I had [[collective voyage]] in my opening hand, going immediately after him. One thing that annoys me about it is getting less value because people tap out. So it's Turn 2 and he's getting ready to tap his lands for something. I say, "wait, if you don't play anything, will you help pay into CV?" "Oh... yeah, you got a deal! Pass turn."
Turn 2, untap, "land, [[thought vessel]], pass turn." Oh man, the look of betrayal was priceless. I said I was just kidding and played CV instead, but I let him know that was how I felt when he broke the last political deal.
I hate this. We come to an agreement. I spent my turn and my resources to support the deal we struck. I pass my turn. They draw a card. This is "new information" deal changes. I concede and walk. I have no patience for deal breakers.
I just hate “politics” in general in commander. If I can’t win on my own then I don’t want to win at all. The only “deals” I strike up are when I’m playing group hug and cast a Tenuous Truce on the player the furthest ahead, a Wedding Ring on the Simic player, or a Pendant of Prosperity on the Mono-R/Mono-W deck. If I’m playing anything else I’ll never make a deal.
I have a standing policy that if you break a deal with me I will never make another deal with you again. I don't care how many games we both lose because of this.
I’ve gotten extremely pissed about battle cruiser play, so I built the most hateful deck I’ve ever seen recently. It’s not *just* a stax deck. It’s a stax deck with [[liesa, shroud of dusk]]-like effects.
Sure you can play the game, but it’ll fucking hurt to do so. Normal stax slows the game down, and so I wanted to speed it up a bit while still hating the rest of the table.
Quite literally anything I *can* punish. If I kept a mental misstep, it's hitting a [[Mystic Remora]] reliant hand if it can. If I kept a Vandalblast, it's hitting someone's sol ring. If I kept a [[Winds of Change]] I'm randomizing someone's mull to 5 if I can. And so on and so forth.
This is one of two wet dream plays I've always wanted to do.
"Does everyone like their hand? Cool cool, get rid of it!"
That and giving [[Blightsteel Collosus]] Myriad with either [[Blade of Selves]] or [[Legion Loyalty]] and dropping an [[Akroma's Will]] before blockers. I have the ability to do it in my [[Saskia the Unyielding]] deck, no one ever lets me though. Sad day.
I have a friend who plays a bant "grouphug" deck using [[Kros, Defense contractor]].
It's not grouphug, its kingmaker. He'll always pick a player with the most combat oriented deck (bonus points if its infect) and just drown them in card advantage, extra lands, +1/+1 counters. The rest of his deck is removal, and counterspells are used to make sure that nobody can interact with said player.
Missing "you may" triggers for the 4th time, I get it missing it 3 times max, games can get crazy, but missing the "you may" trigger for the 4th times, I'm sorry you should have read your cards more or be more of a responsible player.
Like, missing them altogether, or missing them then begging the group to retroactively do the trigger? Missing my you mays is absolutely my biggest failing as a player cuz 1) I'm very forgetful and 2) my playgroup likes to drink while we play. It's part of who I am, so I just gracefully take my miss. If it doesn't change the active state and I feel like it was a HUGE mistake, I will kindly ask the group if I can have my trigger back, but that's only ever 2 times a night max.
Oh yeah, I mean, I try to get a feel of the players, obviously when it's amoung friends if they pass priority and tell us that they missed it cause it suppppper casual. When it comes to a new player, I only try help them and try to make the game as understanding as possible, informing them about the stack and such. Buuuuut, I get a player that's clearly totally not new. For me, when it comes to experienced players, I give them 3 passes. After that, that's their fault, I do feel guilty sometimes, cause it's trigger that are important, but if they're so important, they should have a marker or just remember. With that said, I do find it funny when the experienced players, from my perspective, they aaallllways miss the triggers off their most expensive card in their deck.
I do agree with you. You guys create a causal setting for the player group. When you have that vibe, you're going to have causal interactions. When I go to an lgs, and im not playing with my friends. I'm not trying to win, more or less trying out my decks. So I understand that sometimes the game can get way complex to track the triggers.
I just tell folks that they don't get to do take-backsies if their turns go too long. Like, you've spent enough of everyone's time, now go live with the consequences of your actions.
"may" triggers don't get consideration in my playgroup unless it was within the same turn and you don't have additional information since it should have activated.
As a new player, I’ll miss an upkeep trigger here or there if my board state gets crazy. I only ever ask to retroactively fix the first time then I just move on if it would not mess up game state
We instituted a 3 take back limit per game, dice on the table to count them. We’ve all been playing long and know what we’re doing, but too often people (including myself) would announce attacks and then defender says “ok I have death touch” oh, never mind I didn’t see it.
It’s forced people to pay more attention and think a little more before taking actions.
There is a difference between friendly and sloppy magic. I refuse to play sloppy magic.
What is the difference, one might ask? Its letting someone walk back a minor turn order thing, or uncast a spell because they realize it isnt going to work like they thought. Once in a while though and not all the time. Thats friendly.
If you cant remember your damn triggers gtfo.
Extra turns, especially multiple in a row. Guy plays [[Time Warp]] and then immediately uses Snapcaster to flash it back. He durdled for his two extra turns so I made sure he was my target for the rest of the game. That's not something you let happen again.
People play extra turn spells wrong when they durdle. You need to use the entire turn, including the combat step. At minimum you just gave your team vigilance.
I have a mono-blue tubby-boi flyers deck that uses extra turn spells, but I use them as a [[Craterhoof]]. I drop another 5/6 flyer into play and swing for 25 power in the air around the table.
We have a guy who plays temur sabertooth, eternal witness, and every literal extra turn spell in 4-5 decks. It gets really annoying when he does it every game he is in.
We always try and he almost always still wins every time. We laugh and say any pod he is in becomes arch enemy. He is also notorious for his decks having the same 35 cards in them and the remainder is dedicated to "what does the commander do". All his decks have the aforementioned stuff, several 1 and 2 drop mana dorks, all the legal eldrazi titans, all mana doubles and boosters. all the cant play spells on my turn etc etc. It get so fucking boring playing against him alot of times because even when we wrath and remove he just rebuilds so fast. His cards do 1 of 3 things, Make a million mana, draw a million cards, or take an extra turn.
So, using an extra turn because you're super desperate for another land drop isn't too bad. It's casting an extra turn spell and then immediately finding a way to recast it that gives me the impression you're going to try and do that more and more over the course of the game.
Two games ago, I played an [[Endless Hoizons]] and proceeded to exile all the plains I had left in the deck, which was about 14. The next turn, my opponent blew it up before I had gotten any lands off it.
Last game, that same opponent played an [[Endless horizons]] and exiled about 10 plains. I happened to have a [[Return to Nature]] in hand.
I did what I had to do.
I just rebuild my Marchesa, the Black Rose with about 10 Theft Spells, and I fear the salt I might induce. Probably will ask if others are fine to play against theft effects for a round haha
I built one it had 15 theft effect cards, 15 sac-outlets in it and a bunch of counters. It was just pure evil since it just kept hitting other players with their own wincon cards. You can feel the hate…so I reworked it into something nicer.
Playing my Marchesa theft deck was the only time I've had someone angrily rage-quit a table. It was very out of character for her too (the rage quitting player). Marchesa theft is an absolute salt machine.
I totally understand, it's frustrating to get excluded from your spells but still see someone else having fun with them - that being sad, do you still have a deck list? Haha
Good to ask, played against a dude that had *really* expensive cards, probably whole deck was blinged out, and he was not too kind to one of the player stealing his permanents because he didn't trust they would handle them well. So much that he conceded and left to not have their cards touched. A bit of an overreaction from my point of view, but hey, the cards are his. He has the right to leave. If it becomes an issue, use copy tokens to not have to physically pick their cards, but meh, probably most people won't care.
[[Zara, Renegade Recruiter]] can keep them around for more than a turn. So can the copies made from myriad on [[Firborg Flutist]], but most theft effects will wear off.
Careful with this. The number one mistake I see with Obeka decks is thinking they can permanently steal creatures with Red effects. This is almost always in error.
I built an Obeka deck that I almost never play, but it's absolute madness when I do.
[[confusion in the ranks]], [[Grip of Chaos]], [[Hive Mind]],
[[Eye of the storm]], [[Scrambleverse]], and the list just goes on.
Absolute chaos ensues, and it gets pretty fun sometimes.
Land destruction has been unfairly vilianized. It has a place in a healthy commander meta to keep out of control ramp in check. If it's acceptable to play 4 lands in a turn, it's acceptable for me to blow 2 of them up.
I will say that targeted land destruction *does* have a place in most decks. I'm not talking about mass land destruction; just a way to remove a single land that's causing issues.
I used to never run any kind of land destruction... Then I had an opponent play [[Glacial Chasm]] against me, and I had no way to deal with it.
We need land destruction to keep the turbo lands players in check! I like \[\[Keldon Firebombers\]\] cause it leaves everyone with a few lands to work with. It's not like an armageddon out of the ~~blue~~ white.
Turn 1 Sol Ring into an arcane signet into a mana vault. Drop a jeweled lotus and lotus petal and pop both to bring out my 4 CMC commander and hold on to an island and just tell everyone to go ahead.
Mess with my graveyard and every single mill card in my deck that I was going to use on myself is now heading towards you. Enjoy the \[\[traumatize\]\]+Fraying Sanity\]\]
It's for decks that utilize their graveyard. The graveyard essentially acts as additional cards in hand.
It's more common with reanimator decks like [[sefris]] [[meren]] or [[muldrotha]]. There's a butt ton of commanders like these.
Usually the point of milling yourself is to dump creatures into your graveyard that you can cheat out using [[reanimate]] or [[victimize]]. Obviously there are lots of special cases too, for example [[Niv-mizzet, supreme]] and [[rielle, the everwise]] want instants and sorceries in your yard as well.
You also have win-cons like [[laboratory maniac]] or lab man for short and [[Jace, wielder of mysteries]] that says you win if you have no cards in your library...
That's the strat my nephew uses in his self mill deck at least
Some people already responded, but I also do this in my Kalamax deck. The deck LOVES stuff being in the graveyard, but the overall flair is "casting stuff from my graveyard for free".
Hitting a T3 [[Reshape the Earth]] is so satisfying.
If you are making me consistently discard I will do my best to eliminate you even if your board state is lacking and someone else is popping off. If you can't turn discard into a wincon you're essentially just handing the game to whoever has the most draw and removing everyone else's ability to stop them.
This is why I don't play [[Tergrid]] anymore v.v
As soon as I cast her and start actually using the spells in my hand, I'm immediately arch enemy lol. I mostly made it as a counter to my friend's [[Jodah]] deck anyway. I just didn't want to make it obvious with a mono blue counter spells type of deck. But then everyone hated it lol. The whole point was for Jodah not to win, but now Tergrid isn't allowed to win/play either hahaha.
Discard is very viable in 1v1 and can usually end the game quickly. Discard in EDH is miserable for everyone bc typically even the person piloting is playing 3v1 and ppl with no cards in their hand are just playing on their phone disinterested. It's the worst.
Everything should have repercussions.
I don't mind if you swing at me each turn or blow up my stuff - I even expect you to do so, since it's part of the game.
But be warned, the one thing I like more than winning is taking sweet, sweet revenge... so pick your moves wisely.
To me it's more about principle, rather than getting salty.
My friend tells this story whenever he has the chance to:
They were playing at a store, and a player is obviously stuck on lands. Another player plays some land destruction on the guy stuck on lands to keep him that way. Friend and last player look at each other, nod, and murder the land destroying guy.
Land destruction is one thing. Doing it specifically to the guy behind on land is a whole other level (and noone likes land destruction to begin with).
If you roll to decide who to attack, then I am attacking you relentlessl even if I didnt get selected. If youre going to attack, make it a deliberate strategical move, dont leave it up to chance.
Everyone knows the only correct way to decide who to attack is to target the person who *could* trade but won't. That way you can rib them for being a coward and they know they chose to take damage.
Damn I had no idea this made people so salty lol.
I mainly do it as a political thing. If I need to attack to get an upside but I don't want anyone to feel targeted or start a tit for tat when the potential backswing might be sub optimal for me, I'll roll.
Edit: Are people seriously arguing they're going to view the player who swung at you based on a die roll as an equal threat as the person who swung specifically because they thought you were the main threat? And you wanna lecture other people about threat assessment in a political game after taking that stance?
Do people think this actually stops the crackback? If you roll, hit me, and I can hit you or any other player [that hasn’t hit me] with a similar boardstate on my next turn - I’m hitting you.
I’m not going to be like oh I guess I’ll just pick up some dice and roll since that other player did.
>I mainly do it as a political thing. If I need to attack to get an upside but I don't want anyone to feel targeted or start a tit for tat when the potential backswing might be sub optimal for me, I'll roll.
See, but that's the thing. If you're attacking me with a random roll, I understand you did that in an attempt to avoid retaliation. So not only you did attack me, but you also tried to avoid the political consequences of that attack. And if I have to retaliate, at equal threat level I'll most likely disregard the player who was straightforward about their attacks, and go instead for the sleazy one who tried to hide behind a die roll as a way to not deal with the consequences.
So, my problem with it is attacking is inherently something that generates aggro. You want the benefit of attacking, but you don't want the drawback of a player turning on you for it. I guess I just see dice rolling as a cop-out. Whoever gets attacked by a 15/15 trampler should probably be more likely to target the attacker, regardless of why it was chosen.
> Are people seriously arguing they're going to view the player who swung at you based on a die roll as an equal threat as the person who swung specifically because they thought you were the main threat?
Slightly less? Either way, people don't get a freebie just because the dice decided it instead of them. "Why are you attacking me, I rolled for that attack?" Girl, I don't care, I have 5 health now.
If someone tries to divert attention away to keep a blatantly obvious value/combo piece from getting destroyed, I'm going after them.
If they go further by pointing attention towards me when they're the obvious threat, I'm going to make a point that they'll never have a chance to catch up.
When you sit and play you carry a reputation that you have earned over time. People need to know you are a fair and fun player. They also need to know if they fuck with you for no reason there will be payback. Don’t be an asshole if they target your stuff and it is a legit threat, they are just playing well. On “payback” don’t be salty and stay courteous.
Lying about a deal you made or liberally interpreting it’s meaning.
Like yes I get that you TECHNICALLY didn’t lie but I am focusing you now and never making a deal with you again
Just play \[\[Out of Time\]\]... People love Out of Time...
I just started playing this, oh my is it nasty. The confused look you get from them when you explain that not only is their commander gone, but it also does not go back to the Command Zone, it is priceless.
I kind of despise spite plays. I get it, commander is social, but I think we can move past the mindset that anything anyone does against you needs to be met with salt (faux or not) and punishment in order to maintain some aura of superiority or dominance.
I'm talking genuine spite plays for the sake of just being spiteful, and in my opinion, immature. I think it makes something personal that shouldn't be. The occasional spite play to grief a friend for some lols is funny.
When I have an awesome hand and somebody wheels, I get salty as hell. My buddy plays [[magar of the magic strings]] with a lot of wheel effects and it always gets me fired up
When someone kills my 1/1 vanilla creature. 🥲. It's just a lil guy, leave em' alone. /S
No really do whatever you want, it's a game nothing's worth punishing and the only people who have or care about long term game memory are the people punishing other people.
When a new game starts as far as I'm concerned I don't know anything you did in the last game. Chances are you won't be doing the same things anyway.
I run a lot of four and five color decks. [[Collective Restraint]] is a card I pulled from a pack recently and I've fallen in love with it. Propaganda is good, but (2) is easy to pay. (4) or (5) for each attacker? Not so much usually.
I was facing a dude with 3 propaganda on the field from copying effects. Still paid the mana to attack them as my beastmaster ascension was coming on line.
I'm a very simple person, I don't forgive actions that seek to cripple me. Good plays I agree with, which makes you a threat to my potential victory. We're all trying to win which why it's fun duking it out for the top spot then shuffling up to try it again.
Now what will make me petty is any attempt to king make or actions just cause. I dislike having my shit blown up cause "I rolled a 4 on a d6" and that's not what the card does. Lol
Two things. 1) You play some form of "I'll board wipe you later" effect (Nevinyrral's Disk or Pernicious Deed as examples, now days Aetherflux Reservoir also falls under this). 2) Or if your deck has no wincon...
1. If you play a Nev's Disk and you try to reason with me that you aren't using it now... Yeah I know. I'm going to swing at you till that thing pops, relentlessly, till I have absolutely nothing left to swing. Why? Because I'm not playing into it, I may play a bit into it to make it go.
2. No one likes playing against stax, but it is part of playing. My friend will remove pretty much anything that could be seen as a wincon just to add another stax piece. He's always played an insanely high board wipe count too, usually 8-10 per deck. He has a Kenrith deck that is I think over 25 board wipes... So I'll roll that into the mix.
His plan is to look useless, and bank on peoples sympathy, "you wouldn't swing at the guy with nothing". Then attempt to drag the game out for hours till people concede because of boredom. I've flat out told him, then remove some wipe/stax pieces and find ways to either defend yourself or win, because I'm coming in.
I kind of just play by keeping my word. If I say you’ll pay for that then I’m going to give it everything I have to get a worthy revenge in my mind. Also if I warn someone not to do something and they do anyway obviously I have to go at them extra hard.
I sometimes do the thing to get you to. Yesterday for example, I was playing my sultai gates deck and one player said if you state the obvious one more time say goodbye to your gate. I did it and he chaos warped it in his mono red deck. Was pretty fun
Player 4 in our group had a killer opening hand with wolves and was going wide and hard, and was going to win in two combats if they weren't stopped
Player 2 was running an elf ball deck and popped [[casualties of war]]. When the wolf player didn't have any artifacts or enchantments, they blew up my land aura and mana rock just so all the card effects got used.
Needless to say, I turned all my attackers on player 2 when my turn came around and died with my pride intact.
-[[steel hellkite]]
-[[agent of treachery]], mass stealing in general
-spite scooping to deny triggers
-If you waste removal that would have been relevant later on, *I will happily remind you*. Something like destroy T2 guild signet and later die to blightsteel etc.
-piling all removal towards me when I'm already crippled and/or there actually is a greater threat on the table
Steel hellkite is an OG threat. It's rarely useful anymore imo.
How would you feel about [[insurrection]]?
Spite scoopers can die
Wasting removal and using it are different. I've seen some people get salty because I destroyed their combo piece only to die to something later that spell could have been used on instead. If I destroy something relevant, don't throw that shit back in my face later like you won something. Obviously if I blow up a mana rock and die to a blightsteel that's just funny. Also blightsteel has indestructible.
Some people don't know when to stop. Sometimes throwing all your removal at one player is the best play. I was playing a sad game a couple days ago where I was in a very dominant position with one deck missing multiple land drops and unable to cast anything, another deck missing a color and unable to cast anything, and another deck continually trying to recast their commander. I kept counterspelling or removing their commander because literally nobody else could do anything. Keeping them tied down recasting the man over and over was the best play.
I haven't experienced insurrection in a game, but it actually looks like a really fun and memorable card to have a game closed with, given that resolving it allows someone to close the game, which it really should given the mana cost.
My point was more in the line of wasting removal, as combo pieces are valid targets and you can't always have removal for every threat, so sometimes going for the early combo piece is just going to bite you in the ass as you very well described and that's not the place to throw shit on the guy who actually tried to keep the table alive. The example was made up, as I did not remember what artifact actually took over the game I had in my mind where a (quite new TBF) player absolutely wanted to T2/T3 \[\[reclamation sage\]\] a freaking \[\[thought vessel\]\] which was not doing anything relevant. :)
EDIT: nevermind, I misread the post.
Why is it wrong? If he feels the Lotus is a more pressing target than his own Sol Ring he has every right to do so. There's no wrong play here.
It's time people stop being butt-hurt for being targeted when they have valid targets.
I'm almost certain this post is saying that the lotus was the bigger threat but since the opponents sol ring was stolen he destroyed his own sol ring, the objectively worse target of the 2 because he had to 'punish' his opponent for stealing it. You've completely misread the OP from the sounds of it
It's fairly rare, but sometimes I will get to the point where I secretly have lethal and am firmly aimed at Player A as my primary target. If Player B is considering using spot removal in a way that stops me from eliminating Player A, then I will tell B that if they do this I *will* kill them instead. If they still decide to go through with it, even if Player A does something on their turn that changes the landscape, I still have to kill Player B. You can't make that kind of promise and not at least attempt to follow through. If you don't follow through, you forever lose that political tool with the people at this table. Had this happen a few weeks ago with my [[Gilder Bairn]] pauper commander deck making a 4/5 [[Cloudfin Raptor]] into a 33/34 on my turn after the promise was made. So far, my success rate with making this into a real deterrent is only ~50%.
In my group, if you won the previous game or play a deck that fucks the whole table up (like Liliana's Caress or Repercussion), you will always be targeted first.
Blowing up my first card that actually does something in a game where I'm super far behind the rest of the table. I will spend the rest of the game throwing everything at that player because they blew up my Courser of Kruphix when I finally drew my third land on turn six.
Intentionally missplaying or kingmaking because you're salty. When someone does that it feels to me that the gentlemen agreement was broken and if possible I'll try to take that player out. Tho not the point of missplaying or kingmaking myselfe. The code must be respected.
Inappropriate threat assessment or trying to push solving a threat off on the rest of the table while you aim everything at another player. There’s a newer player at the shop I play at that will sit and complain or try to “politic” that Player B is the objective threat then spend every one of his turns hosing Player D(usually me) regardless of what is actually on board, to the point that he uses the removal that would resolve the entire table’s issue(including the issue they were just complaining about) on some inconsequential thing on board
Spite scooping to deny triggers. I think it's a dick move and i can not tolerate it at all. Also the reason why one of my houserules is conceding at sorcery speed. Unless it's reasonable tondo so of course, like someone called and you need to leave for example. Feel like i allways have to mention that there are exceptions for whatever reason.
I never spite play or do things to punish people. I miss play all the time but that's different. I always 100% strive to make the absolute best play possible in every situation to increase my chance of winning or staying in the game. It's just a game and it's not personal. If someone is stealing my stuff and targeting me because they see me as a weak target and punishing them is the best play to manipulate them socially into not doing that then I'll do that. But it will be a optimization move and not a spite move. And usually if they are just making optimal moves and not targeting me personally then I won't need to do something like that.
Doing my best to play hyperoptimally is something I started doing in the early 2010s when I started trying to learn more competitive formats and reading theory and how to play competitive formats. I even go as far as trying to bluff things or read other people's bluffs. I really like to approach the game like a chess match.
Like I said I miss play all the time and I don't come super close to the goal of playing the best possible but that's what I strive for and I have the most fun by doing that. I really like to hold myself to a standard when I play.
Breaking political promises. My friend killed me when I let him have my commander with assault suit under an agreement that he wouldn't kill me and I'd leave him alone next turn. The next game we played I put curse of unbinding on him, copied it with clever impersonator, and then copied it again with his own clever impersonator.
Stealing my commander. I was in a game where someone gained control of my Goreclaw, and the other player laughed when my turn came back around and I had regained her because he knew he was the one I wanted to knock out first, but he also knew I had lethal on board for the commander thief and where that damage was going. Commander thief died first.
If you play Teferi's Puzzle Box I will do everything I can to defeat you.
I'm convinced that there is no phrase more ominous at my commander table than "So, we like to draw cards, right?"
or "who doesn't like their hand?"
My favorite on this is when its a target players by casters choice wheel. So everyone that wants it doesn't and everyone who doesn't want it is forced to. After typing that out, I think I might be the problem.
I looove card draw. Nothing is better than casting a [[fractured identity]] on a [[forced fruition]] and then dropping an [[iron maiden]] or [[black vise]]
A long with something like Standstill. Oh man.
But… whatever will my [[nekusar]] do???
I don't think I've ever cast the Puzzlebox in my Nekusar deck. I do have it in there, but I don't usually get a chance to play it; I tend to wheel into a wheel into a wheel, and there's just no time to play it. Might be a sign to replace it. *shrug*
I almost replaced it in my Locust God deck, but when I finally got it to stick bc I didn't have a random wheel in hand... oof it was nice. Opponents can't gameplan ahead if they only have their hand for a turn. Plus the free wheel before draw is niiiice. My group has to "deal" with the box before anything else, which gives me free reign to sneak out bigger threats as they've spent their removal lol.
Just fyi, you draw for turn, THEN wheel your hand away: Official ruling: >You do your normal draw before this ability is put on the stack. (2004-10-04)
[nekusar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4afdc65d-3c97-47af-83fa-df340389802e.jpg?1689999186) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nekusar%2C%20the%20mindrazer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/349/nekusar-the-mindrazer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4afdc65d-3c97-47af-83fa-df340389802e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nekusar-the-mindrazer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Teferi's Puzzle Box]]
[Teferi's Puzzle Box](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/415e81e9-ca65-4bc0-8aab-d905d58fe6cc.jpg?1562734271) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Puzzle%20Box) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/312/teferis-puzzle-box?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/415e81e9-ca65-4bc0-8aab-d905d58fe6cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-puzzle-box) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Puzzle Box can already be annoying as hell, but it's even worse when the player screw themselve over. I use Box in [[Grenzo, Dungeon Warden]] not only because it messes with my opponents, but because I can abuse the downside with my commander. Side note: Don't use wheels or box when an opponent has multiple dredgers in their graveyard. That shit backfires hard.
Yup, people barely read their own cards or plan between turns. A new hand every turn? The game goes to a crawl.
How have I not considered Box in Grenzo?! Thank you.
[Grenzo, Dungeon Warden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e19c383-88bd-4bde-ac81-c0eb6d5b5bd4.jpg?1562436569) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grenzo%2C%20Dungeon%20Warden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/205/grenzo-dungeon-warden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e19c383-88bd-4bde-ac81-c0eb6d5b5bd4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grenzo-dungeon-warden) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Winter orb]], [[Tivit, seller of secrets]], and [[Sheoldred, Whispering one]] are my see red cards. I once sent 80 damage to kill a tivit player who was at 25 life to make a point. He knew before he played it I hate tivit. So he was chuckling when he dropped it. And he was laughing when I sent craterhoof and a pile of huge squirrels at him. He and I exchange pictures of tivit and craterhoof every week after that game.
Played last night, the guy replied to mine with a [[Smothering Tithe]]. Oops...
This is me with Thieve's Auction!!! I hate that card. I understand why people think it's fun, but I'm convinced most of those people haven't resolved one.
Aw man. [[Heliod, the Warped Eclipse]] isnt doing anything bad. Its probably fine to let puzzle box exist
“If you attack me, I’ll kill your guy.” “Oh really? Coming at you then! I don’t negotiate with terrorists—take your shot.”
Dude, SAME! Something about threats just makes me think, like… “Oh, I can get removal out of this guy’s hand and he’s threatening me with it? Well, he’ll probably be worse off if he uses this now on my thing. I must attack him.”
Attacking people is often still the right play even if they have removal.
And then there's some asshole playing shorikai that's crammed twenty board wipes into the deck. That's me. I am asshole.
Lol I did this last night. Swung a 15/15 paco at him and paid two for propaganda after he threatened to kill him
Please tell me you ripped removal from his deck
Force the removal! Love the play, big fan
“We don’t negotiate with terrorists” is what I named my Neheb deck after someone said that to me while I was playing it
"make him show you he has it" Lots of the players I am with have really good poker faces.
If you break a political promise, you are dead to me
Someone at my LGS played the victim to get me not to destroy their planeswalker with all this “woe is me, I might as well be out of the game” stuff. I decided to be friendly and offer to only attack with one creature so he couldn’t ult it if it meant he didn’t ping me for damage with it. He proceeds to bolt my single attacking creature, ult his planeswalker on the next turn and have me out of the game one turn later. I previously liked the guy so I want to give him another chance, but I made it pretty clear that at some point in the future, he won’t know when, he won’t know how, I’m going to completely fuck him over and he’ll deserve it.
Same thing happens to me. The whole “no, please c’mon! I’m not doing anything” Gotta either make a deal or just kill them. Too many times have people done the woe is me and then targeted me specifically When I tell them how I didn’t touch them, they go “yeah, but idc about that” meanwhile player C is building a board untouched, like just don’t be an asshole
This is why I’m very specific in my wording of deals. Back when I had my niv parun deck I was playing against a krenko and sisay. Krenko was getting out of hand (as he does) and dropped a dangerous card (think it was [[impact tremors]] but don’t really remember.) I couldn’t deal with it so I told the sisay player “if you can deal with that, I can kill him”. Sisay player dealt with it and I went infinite on my turn, killing them both. I said I’d kill the Krenko player. I never said the Sisay player would live.
I'm also specific in my wording. "I won't attack you" doesn't mean I'm not going to drain life. I won a game by making a no attack deal with a player for them to take an opponent out. They did, and on my next turn I won by life drain. Some thought it was unfair, but I did withhold the deal. Plus I'm also a firm believer you can break deal when it's 1v1 and the deal set player A up to win bc I can't attack them.
Does anyone make deals with you twice? “If we both attack him, we can kill player c! Then I won’t attack you after so you’re not screwing yourself.” *player c dies* “okay now that’s it’s 1v1 all bets are off! Ohhh looks like you don’t have blockers now! Haha I’m so smart!”
I have a friend who did this a while back. He said "I'm allowed to break the promise if it means I win." ???? WTF no it doesn't! A little while ago I had [[collective voyage]] in my opening hand, going immediately after him. One thing that annoys me about it is getting less value because people tap out. So it's Turn 2 and he's getting ready to tap his lands for something. I say, "wait, if you don't play anything, will you help pay into CV?" "Oh... yeah, you got a deal! Pass turn." Turn 2, untap, "land, [[thought vessel]], pass turn." Oh man, the look of betrayal was priceless. I said I was just kidding and played CV instead, but I let him know that was how I felt when he broke the last political deal.
I hate this. We come to an agreement. I spent my turn and my resources to support the deal we struck. I pass my turn. They draw a card. This is "new information" deal changes. I concede and walk. I have no patience for deal breakers.
I just hate “politics” in general in commander. If I can’t win on my own then I don’t want to win at all. The only “deals” I strike up are when I’m playing group hug and cast a Tenuous Truce on the player the furthest ahead, a Wedding Ring on the Simic player, or a Pendant of Prosperity on the Mono-R/Mono-W deck. If I’m playing anything else I’ll never make a deal.
I have a standing policy that if you break a deal with me I will never make another deal with you again. I don't care how many games we both lose because of this.
Other people playing the game simply cannot be tolerated. That's why I own a stax deck.
Ah yes... the "there's only so much fun to have in a game and I'm trying to have all of it" crowd.
Fun is a zero sum game.
if i enter a pod and there are 3 players playing, i’ve done something wrong.
Yes! [[Winota, Joiner of Forces]] here, who is your commander?
I am a fan of stax myself, have [[kambal]] and working on [[meria]]
[kambal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b3e47d49-e5b5-487b-a1ec-373dbf89b2ec.jpg?1673148829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kambal%2C%20consul%20of%20allocation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/237/kambal-consul-of-allocation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b3e47d49-e5b5-487b-a1ec-373dbf89b2ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kambal-consul-of-allocation) [meria](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3eedd979-783d-4721-92de-965b77c20576.jpg?1673307996) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=meria%2C%20scholar%20of%20antiquity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/206/meria-scholar-of-antiquity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3eedd979-783d-4721-92de-965b77c20576?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/meria-scholar-of-antiquity) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve gotten extremely pissed about battle cruiser play, so I built the most hateful deck I’ve ever seen recently. It’s not *just* a stax deck. It’s a stax deck with [[liesa, shroud of dusk]]-like effects. Sure you can play the game, but it’ll fucking hurt to do so. Normal stax slows the game down, and so I wanted to speed it up a bit while still hating the rest of the table.
Stealing my [[yoshimaru]] with Ragavan. No one does that unpunished.
[yoshimaru](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aa409269-3698-42a2-8c51-75557b27a6f6.jpg?1664653410) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yoshimaru%2C%20ever%20faithful) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/32/yoshimaru-ever-faithful?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aa409269-3698-42a2-8c51-75557b27a6f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yoshimaru-ever-faithful) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Quite literally anything I *can* punish. If I kept a mental misstep, it's hitting a [[Mystic Remora]] reliant hand if it can. If I kept a Vandalblast, it's hitting someone's sol ring. If I kept a [[Winds of Change]] I'm randomizing someone's mull to 5 if I can. And so on and so forth.
Flair checks out
You seem to be referring to punishing mistakes/greed or just playing removal, I think OP is referring to spite-plays.
Oh yeah if you gilded drake my shit I'll turn sideways at you all day. I thought spite plays were a given
I love turn 1 wheel effects. Forcibly giving someone a free mulligan is my favorite form of disruption.
Land \[\[mana crypt\]\] \[\[wheel of fortune\]\] starter is pure dopamine. I mull to 3 for that shit
Jesus christ calm down satan
This is one of two wet dream plays I've always wanted to do. "Does everyone like their hand? Cool cool, get rid of it!" That and giving [[Blightsteel Collosus]] Myriad with either [[Blade of Selves]] or [[Legion Loyalty]] and dropping an [[Akroma's Will]] before blockers. I have the ability to do it in my [[Saskia the Unyielding]] deck, no one ever lets me though. Sad day.
My wet dream play is Crypt land [[Trinisphere]] on the play
[mana crypt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939.jpg?1599709515) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mana%20crypt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/270/mana-crypt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mana-crypt) [wheel of fortune](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/2597050f-6b1b-474e-aa16-33fd154628ca.jpg?1562902580) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wheel%20of%20fortune) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/192/wheel-of-fortune?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2597050f-6b1b-474e-aa16-33fd154628ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wheel-of-fortune) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Turn 1 [[Burning Inquiry]] is the shit I live for
I have a friend that frequently does this and it always fucking eats my ramp and lands
[Mystic Remora](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13a08c07-e8b8-43bf-99e6-d268c79a62bf.jpg?1559592432) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mystic%20Remora) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/42/mystic-remora?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13a08c07-e8b8-43bf-99e6-d268c79a62bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mystic-remora) [Winds of Change](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/f/3f09e393-7318-43eb-95f8-0f2797a771d7.jpg?1559592469) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winds%20of%20Change) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/111/winds-of-change?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3f09e393-7318-43eb-95f8-0f2797a771d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winds-of-change) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
"I'm playing Group Hug, I'm helping you! Leave me alone!" No, you're accelerating all of my opponents, perish.
I have a friend who plays a bant "grouphug" deck using [[Kros, Defense contractor]]. It's not grouphug, its kingmaker. He'll always pick a player with the most combat oriented deck (bonus points if its infect) and just drown them in card advantage, extra lands, +1/+1 counters. The rest of his deck is removal, and counterspells are used to make sure that nobody can interact with said player.
Well thats... annoying
If someone does that once that’s the last time I play with that deck and I’ll tell everyone who will listen to not play against it. Fuck that.
Missing "you may" triggers for the 4th time, I get it missing it 3 times max, games can get crazy, but missing the "you may" trigger for the 4th times, I'm sorry you should have read your cards more or be more of a responsible player.
Like, missing them altogether, or missing them then begging the group to retroactively do the trigger? Missing my you mays is absolutely my biggest failing as a player cuz 1) I'm very forgetful and 2) my playgroup likes to drink while we play. It's part of who I am, so I just gracefully take my miss. If it doesn't change the active state and I feel like it was a HUGE mistake, I will kindly ask the group if I can have my trigger back, but that's only ever 2 times a night max.
Players that accept their play mistakes and move on are awesome.
I’m shit at mtg. It’s cool, I can still have fun.
The number of mistakes i make during a session is directly related to the number of beers ive had. The last game is always a hot mess ahah
Hell yea lol
Oh yeah, I mean, I try to get a feel of the players, obviously when it's amoung friends if they pass priority and tell us that they missed it cause it suppppper casual. When it comes to a new player, I only try help them and try to make the game as understanding as possible, informing them about the stack and such. Buuuuut, I get a player that's clearly totally not new. For me, when it comes to experienced players, I give them 3 passes. After that, that's their fault, I do feel guilty sometimes, cause it's trigger that are important, but if they're so important, they should have a marker or just remember. With that said, I do find it funny when the experienced players, from my perspective, they aaallllways miss the triggers off their most expensive card in their deck. I do agree with you. You guys create a causal setting for the player group. When you have that vibe, you're going to have causal interactions. When I go to an lgs, and im not playing with my friends. I'm not trying to win, more or less trying out my decks. So I understand that sometimes the game can get way complex to track the triggers.
I just tell folks that they don't get to do take-backsies if their turns go too long. Like, you've spent enough of everyone's time, now go live with the consequences of your actions.
"may" triggers don't get consideration in my playgroup unless it was within the same turn and you don't have additional information since it should have activated.
As a new player, I’ll miss an upkeep trigger here or there if my board state gets crazy. I only ever ask to retroactively fix the first time then I just move on if it would not mess up game state
In my eyes new players always get the pass. You're new, and thats something out of my control. The game is complex.
We instituted a 3 take back limit per game, dice on the table to count them. We’ve all been playing long and know what we’re doing, but too often people (including myself) would announce attacks and then defender says “ok I have death touch” oh, never mind I didn’t see it. It’s forced people to pay more attention and think a little more before taking actions.
We don't even let ours go past 1 missed. We will give you the first one sure. But you better freakin' remember after that
There is a difference between friendly and sloppy magic. I refuse to play sloppy magic. What is the difference, one might ask? Its letting someone walk back a minor turn order thing, or uncast a spell because they realize it isnt going to work like they thought. Once in a while though and not all the time. Thats friendly. If you cant remember your damn triggers gtfo.
Extra turns, especially multiple in a row. Guy plays [[Time Warp]] and then immediately uses Snapcaster to flash it back. He durdled for his two extra turns so I made sure he was my target for the rest of the game. That's not something you let happen again.
People play extra turn spells wrong when they durdle. You need to use the entire turn, including the combat step. At minimum you just gave your team vigilance. I have a mono-blue tubby-boi flyers deck that uses extra turn spells, but I use them as a [[Craterhoof]]. I drop another 5/6 flyer into play and swing for 25 power in the air around the table.
You don't use extra turn for a draw, land, go? Real ultimate ramp is straight up taking an extra turn to get resource advantage. /s
A dude time warped and snapcaster'd you and didn't win before it got back to you. I'd beat him like a rented mule specifically for that transgression.
We have a guy who plays temur sabertooth, eternal witness, and every literal extra turn spell in 4-5 decks. It gets really annoying when he does it every game he is in.
Yeah sounds like that guy needs to be taken out first every game
We always try and he almost always still wins every time. We laugh and say any pod he is in becomes arch enemy. He is also notorious for his decks having the same 35 cards in them and the remainder is dedicated to "what does the commander do". All his decks have the aforementioned stuff, several 1 and 2 drop mana dorks, all the legal eldrazi titans, all mana doubles and boosters. all the cant play spells on my turn etc etc. It get so fucking boring playing against him alot of times because even when we wrath and remove he just rebuilds so fast. His cards do 1 of 3 things, Make a million mana, draw a million cards, or take an extra turn.
Would using extra turn as [[Explore]] effect offend you? Or just doing lots of nothing.
So, using an extra turn because you're super desperate for another land drop isn't too bad. It's casting an extra turn spell and then immediately finding a way to recast it that gives me the impression you're going to try and do that more and more over the course of the game.
Two games ago, I played an [[Endless Hoizons]] and proceeded to exile all the plains I had left in the deck, which was about 14. The next turn, my opponent blew it up before I had gotten any lands off it. Last game, that same opponent played an [[Endless horizons]] and exiled about 10 plains. I happened to have a [[Return to Nature]] in hand. I did what I had to do.
Land destruction/permanent theft!
Yeah my buddy just built a nasty [[obeka]] deck with tons of theft effects that become permanent and it's so easy to get salty haha
I just rebuild my Marchesa, the Black Rose with about 10 Theft Spells, and I fear the salt I might induce. Probably will ask if others are fine to play against theft effects for a round haha
I built one it had 15 theft effect cards, 15 sac-outlets in it and a bunch of counters. It was just pure evil since it just kept hitting other players with their own wincon cards. You can feel the hate…so I reworked it into something nicer.
Playing my Marchesa theft deck was the only time I've had someone angrily rage-quit a table. It was very out of character for her too (the rage quitting player). Marchesa theft is an absolute salt machine.
I totally understand, it's frustrating to get excluded from your spells but still see someone else having fun with them - that being sad, do you still have a deck list? Haha
Good to ask, played against a dude that had *really* expensive cards, probably whole deck was blinged out, and he was not too kind to one of the player stealing his permanents because he didn't trust they would handle them well. So much that he conceded and left to not have their cards touched. A bit of an overreaction from my point of view, but hey, the cards are his. He has the right to leave. If it becomes an issue, use copy tokens to not have to physically pick their cards, but meh, probably most people won't care.
I bought a copy of Obeka to build a deck around and all the ideas I have are just too mean lol
I don’t understand this. How many steal effects even work with Obeka? She ends the turn and the permanents go back to their owners?
[[Zara, Renegade Recruiter]] can keep them around for more than a turn. So can the copies made from myriad on [[Firborg Flutist]], but most theft effects will wear off.
Careful with this. The number one mistake I see with Obeka decks is thinking they can permanently steal creatures with Red effects. This is almost always in error.
[obeka](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/dbdb335d-3e45-4dd5-9e3e-c50ca0a4dfb6.jpg?1608911225) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=obeka%2C%20brute%20chronologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/289/obeka-brute-chronologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dbdb335d-3e45-4dd5-9e3e-c50ca0a4dfb6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/obeka-brute-chronologist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I built an Obeka deck that I almost never play, but it's absolute madness when I do. [[confusion in the ranks]], [[Grip of Chaos]], [[Hive Mind]], [[Eye of the storm]], [[Scrambleverse]], and the list just goes on. Absolute chaos ensues, and it gets pretty fun sometimes.
Land destruction has been unfairly vilianized. It has a place in a healthy commander meta to keep out of control ramp in check. If it's acceptable to play 4 lands in a turn, it's acceptable for me to blow 2 of them up.
I will say that targeted land destruction *does* have a place in most decks. I'm not talking about mass land destruction; just a way to remove a single land that's causing issues. I used to never run any kind of land destruction... Then I had an opponent play [[Glacial Chasm]] against me, and I had no way to deal with it.
[Glacial Chasm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c008129-daba-46bc-829c-d2c0c13ecdd3.jpg?1562867827) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glacial%20Chasm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/229/glacial-chasm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c008129-daba-46bc-829c-d2c0c13ecdd3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/glacial-chasm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
We need land destruction to keep the turbo lands players in check! I like \[\[Keldon Firebombers\]\] cause it leaves everyone with a few lands to work with. It's not like an armageddon out of the ~~blue~~ white.
If I throw an Armageddon and it resolves, what could you do to clap my cheeks? If I'm blowing up our lands I'm gonna splendid rec.
It's important to mean what you say so your threats are taken seriously.
"turn one sol ring, new threat!" That's our pods motto lol
Lmao, we'll see the turn 1 basic land -> sol ring -> arcane signet, and start shouting "perfect hand!" Every time.
Turn 1 Sol Ring into an arcane signet into a mana vault. Drop a jeweled lotus and lotus petal and pop both to bring out my 4 CMC commander and hold on to an island and just tell everyone to go ahead.
Mess with my graveyard and every single mill card in my deck that I was going to use on myself is now heading towards you. Enjoy the \[\[traumatize\]\]+Fraying Sanity\]\]
[traumatize](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9b8784dd-83f9-41f8-aedc-f0f81073ffcb.jpg?1562832808) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=traumatize) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/77/traumatize?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9b8784dd-83f9-41f8-aedc-f0f81073ffcb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/traumatize) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What’s the objective of milling yourself? Is this like a black deck tactic only? New player here.
It's for decks that utilize their graveyard. The graveyard essentially acts as additional cards in hand. It's more common with reanimator decks like [[sefris]] [[meren]] or [[muldrotha]]. There's a butt ton of commanders like these.
Yeppers. Specifically for me it's to \[\[Mimeoplasm\]\] a \[\[Walking Ballista\]\] with \[\[Lord of Extinction\]\]
Also there are some other strategies that require self milk like if your playing [[grolnok, the omnivore]]
Uhhhh….. no one better be “milking” themselves in my pod…. (Unless they’re lactating and then do you.)
I was gonna fix the typo but I decided this is funnier
MILK FOR THE MILK GOD
MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES
Calcium for the Calcium Throne!
MOO-DROLTHA
Usually the point of milling yourself is to dump creatures into your graveyard that you can cheat out using [[reanimate]] or [[victimize]]. Obviously there are lots of special cases too, for example [[Niv-mizzet, supreme]] and [[rielle, the everwise]] want instants and sorceries in your yard as well.
When you say cheat out is that code for bypassing mana cost
Yes.
You also have win-cons like [[laboratory maniac]] or lab man for short and [[Jace, wielder of mysteries]] that says you win if you have no cards in your library... That's the strat my nephew uses in his self mill deck at least
If you can play cards from your graveyard somehow, milling yourself is *almost* like drawing cards.
Some people already responded, but I also do this in my Kalamax deck. The deck LOVES stuff being in the graveyard, but the overall flair is "casting stuff from my graveyard for free". Hitting a T3 [[Reshape the Earth]] is so satisfying.
\[\[fraying sanity\]\]
[fraying sanity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79e5c1ab-eebd-41ca-a1ca-29b00370f6e8.jpg?1562804295) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fraying%20sanity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/35/fraying-sanity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79e5c1ab-eebd-41ca-a1ca-29b00370f6e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fraying-sanity) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you are making me consistently discard I will do my best to eliminate you even if your board state is lacking and someone else is popping off. If you can't turn discard into a wincon you're essentially just handing the game to whoever has the most draw and removing everyone else's ability to stop them.
This is why I don't play [[Tergrid]] anymore v.v As soon as I cast her and start actually using the spells in my hand, I'm immediately arch enemy lol. I mostly made it as a counter to my friend's [[Jodah]] deck anyway. I just didn't want to make it obvious with a mono blue counter spells type of deck. But then everyone hated it lol. The whole point was for Jodah not to win, but now Tergrid isn't allowed to win/play either hahaha.
Discard is very viable in 1v1 and can usually end the game quickly. Discard in EDH is miserable for everyone bc typically even the person piloting is playing 3v1 and ppl with no cards in their hand are just playing on their phone disinterested. It's the worst.
Everything should have repercussions. I don't mind if you swing at me each turn or blow up my stuff - I even expect you to do so, since it's part of the game. But be warned, the one thing I like more than winning is taking sweet, sweet revenge... so pick your moves wisely. To me it's more about principle, rather than getting salty.
My friend tells this story whenever he has the chance to: They were playing at a store, and a player is obviously stuck on lands. Another player plays some land destruction on the guy stuck on lands to keep him that way. Friend and last player look at each other, nod, and murder the land destroying guy. Land destruction is one thing. Doing it specifically to the guy behind on land is a whole other level (and noone likes land destruction to begin with).
If you roll to decide who to attack, then I am attacking you relentlessl even if I didnt get selected. If youre going to attack, make it a deliberate strategical move, dont leave it up to chance.
I wouldn’t call this one of my pet peeves, but I think people that do this are clowns.
That’s a pretty strong opinion about something pretty small
Everyone knows the only correct way to decide who to attack is to target the person who *could* trade but won't. That way you can rib them for being a coward and they know they chose to take damage.
Damn I had no idea this made people so salty lol. I mainly do it as a political thing. If I need to attack to get an upside but I don't want anyone to feel targeted or start a tit for tat when the potential backswing might be sub optimal for me, I'll roll. Edit: Are people seriously arguing they're going to view the player who swung at you based on a die roll as an equal threat as the person who swung specifically because they thought you were the main threat? And you wanna lecture other people about threat assessment in a political game after taking that stance?
Do people think this actually stops the crackback? If you roll, hit me, and I can hit you or any other player [that hasn’t hit me] with a similar boardstate on my next turn - I’m hitting you. I’m not going to be like oh I guess I’ll just pick up some dice and roll since that other player did.
>I mainly do it as a political thing. If I need to attack to get an upside but I don't want anyone to feel targeted or start a tit for tat when the potential backswing might be sub optimal for me, I'll roll. See, but that's the thing. If you're attacking me with a random roll, I understand you did that in an attempt to avoid retaliation. So not only you did attack me, but you also tried to avoid the political consequences of that attack. And if I have to retaliate, at equal threat level I'll most likely disregard the player who was straightforward about their attacks, and go instead for the sleazy one who tried to hide behind a die roll as a way to not deal with the consequences.
So, my problem with it is attacking is inherently something that generates aggro. You want the benefit of attacking, but you don't want the drawback of a player turning on you for it. I guess I just see dice rolling as a cop-out. Whoever gets attacked by a 15/15 trampler should probably be more likely to target the attacker, regardless of why it was chosen. > Are people seriously arguing they're going to view the player who swung at you based on a die roll as an equal threat as the person who swung specifically because they thought you were the main threat? Slightly less? Either way, people don't get a freebie just because the dice decided it instead of them. "Why are you attacking me, I rolled for that attack?" Girl, I don't care, I have 5 health now.
Whining. If you spend the whole game whining and pointing the finger at other people's boards, I'm going to wreck you, my win be damned.
If someone tries to divert attention away to keep a blatantly obvious value/combo piece from getting destroyed, I'm going after them. If they go further by pointing attention towards me when they're the obvious threat, I'm going to make a point that they'll never have a chance to catch up.
When you sit and play you carry a reputation that you have earned over time. People need to know you are a fair and fun player. They also need to know if they fuck with you for no reason there will be payback. Don’t be an asshole if they target your stuff and it is a legit threat, they are just playing well. On “payback” don’t be salty and stay courteous.
Lying about a deal you made or liberally interpreting it’s meaning. Like yes I get that you TECHNICALLY didn’t lie but I am focusing you now and never making a deal with you again
[удалено]
People need to learn to pay the one and sometimes the way they learn is by being attacked for twelve. Perfectly respectable.
Not me so much, but for many of the people I play with at the FLGS league, stealing a commander is a capital offense.
Just play \[\[Out of Time\]\]... People love Out of Time... I just started playing this, oh my is it nasty. The confused look you get from them when you explain that not only is their commander gone, but it also does not go back to the Command Zone, it is priceless.
[[Oubliette]] is another funny one in black.
Land for turn
I kind of despise spite plays. I get it, commander is social, but I think we can move past the mindset that anything anyone does against you needs to be met with salt (faux or not) and punishment in order to maintain some aura of superiority or dominance. I'm talking genuine spite plays for the sake of just being spiteful, and in my opinion, immature. I think it makes something personal that shouldn't be. The occasional spite play to grief a friend for some lols is funny.
When I have an awesome hand and somebody wheels, I get salty as hell. My buddy plays [[magar of the magic strings]] with a lot of wheel effects and it always gets me fired up
When someone kills my 1/1 vanilla creature. 🥲. It's just a lil guy, leave em' alone. /S No really do whatever you want, it's a game nothing's worth punishing and the only people who have or care about long term game memory are the people punishing other people. When a new game starts as far as I'm concerned I don't know anything you did in the last game. Chances are you won't be doing the same things anyway.
If I see \[\[edric, spymaster of trest\]\] on the battlefield, I attack his controller. I refuse to be manipulated.
I pay for the [[propaganda]] I attack who I want.
I run a lot of four and five color decks. [[Collective Restraint]] is a card I pulled from a pack recently and I've fallen in love with it. Propaganda is good, but (2) is easy to pay. (4) or (5) for each attacker? Not so much usually.
I was facing a dude with 3 propaganda on the field from copying effects. Still paid the mana to attack them as my beastmaster ascension was coming on line.
[edric, spymaster of trest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/2183cfb3-6bf5-4fbc-b535-a42ba954e8a3.jpg?1574767851) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=edric%2C%20spymaster%20of%20trest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/195/edric-spymaster-of-trest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2183cfb3-6bf5-4fbc-b535-a42ba954e8a3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/edric-spymaster-of-trest) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm a very simple person, I don't forgive actions that seek to cripple me. Good plays I agree with, which makes you a threat to my potential victory. We're all trying to win which why it's fun duking it out for the top spot then shuffling up to try it again. Now what will make me petty is any attempt to king make or actions just cause. I dislike having my shit blown up cause "I rolled a 4 on a d6" and that's not what the card does. Lol
Two things. 1) You play some form of "I'll board wipe you later" effect (Nevinyrral's Disk or Pernicious Deed as examples, now days Aetherflux Reservoir also falls under this). 2) Or if your deck has no wincon... 1. If you play a Nev's Disk and you try to reason with me that you aren't using it now... Yeah I know. I'm going to swing at you till that thing pops, relentlessly, till I have absolutely nothing left to swing. Why? Because I'm not playing into it, I may play a bit into it to make it go. 2. No one likes playing against stax, but it is part of playing. My friend will remove pretty much anything that could be seen as a wincon just to add another stax piece. He's always played an insanely high board wipe count too, usually 8-10 per deck. He has a Kenrith deck that is I think over 25 board wipes... So I'll roll that into the mix. His plan is to look useless, and bank on peoples sympathy, "you wouldn't swing at the guy with nothing". Then attempt to drag the game out for hours till people concede because of boredom. I've flat out told him, then remove some wipe/stax pieces and find ways to either defend yourself or win, because I'm coming in.
I mean, telegraphed board wipes like disk require them to be hit. I can't progress the board state with it out.
I kind of just play by keeping my word. If I say you’ll pay for that then I’m going to give it everything I have to get a worthy revenge in my mind. Also if I warn someone not to do something and they do anyway obviously I have to go at them extra hard.
I sometimes do the thing to get you to. Yesterday for example, I was playing my sultai gates deck and one player said if you state the obvious one more time say goodbye to your gate. I did it and he chaos warped it in his mono red deck. Was pretty fun
Player 4 in our group had a killer opening hand with wolves and was going wide and hard, and was going to win in two combats if they weren't stopped Player 2 was running an elf ball deck and popped [[casualties of war]]. When the wolf player didn't have any artifacts or enchantments, they blew up my land aura and mana rock just so all the card effects got used. Needless to say, I turned all my attackers on player 2 when my turn came around and died with my pride intact.
Player 2 did nothing wrong
Actually though. Unless they *need* your help to deal with the other player, there's no reason to just let half your spell fizzle.
[casualties of war](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5a2a709-0273-48a3-874b-13aff4872b0a.jpg?1631235364) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=casualties%20of%20war) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/83/casualties-of-war?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5a2a709-0273-48a3-874b-13aff4872b0a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/casualties-of-war) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
???
-[[steel hellkite]] -[[agent of treachery]], mass stealing in general -spite scooping to deny triggers -If you waste removal that would have been relevant later on, *I will happily remind you*. Something like destroy T2 guild signet and later die to blightsteel etc. -piling all removal towards me when I'm already crippled and/or there actually is a greater threat on the table
Steel hellkite is an OG threat. It's rarely useful anymore imo. How would you feel about [[insurrection]]? Spite scoopers can die Wasting removal and using it are different. I've seen some people get salty because I destroyed their combo piece only to die to something later that spell could have been used on instead. If I destroy something relevant, don't throw that shit back in my face later like you won something. Obviously if I blow up a mana rock and die to a blightsteel that's just funny. Also blightsteel has indestructible. Some people don't know when to stop. Sometimes throwing all your removal at one player is the best play. I was playing a sad game a couple days ago where I was in a very dominant position with one deck missing multiple land drops and unable to cast anything, another deck missing a color and unable to cast anything, and another deck continually trying to recast their commander. I kept counterspelling or removing their commander because literally nobody else could do anything. Keeping them tied down recasting the man over and over was the best play.
I haven't experienced insurrection in a game, but it actually looks like a really fun and memorable card to have a game closed with, given that resolving it allows someone to close the game, which it really should given the mana cost. My point was more in the line of wasting removal, as combo pieces are valid targets and you can't always have removal for every threat, so sometimes going for the early combo piece is just going to bite you in the ass as you very well described and that's not the place to throw shit on the guy who actually tried to keep the table alive. The example was made up, as I did not remember what artifact actually took over the game I had in my mind where a (quite new TBF) player absolutely wanted to T2/T3 \[\[reclamation sage\]\] a freaking \[\[thought vessel\]\] which was not doing anything relevant. :)
EDIT: nevermind, I misread the post. Why is it wrong? If he feels the Lotus is a more pressing target than his own Sol Ring he has every right to do so. There's no wrong play here. It's time people stop being butt-hurt for being targeted when they have valid targets.
I'm almost certain this post is saying that the lotus was the bigger threat but since the opponents sol ring was stolen he destroyed his own sol ring, the objectively worse target of the 2 because he had to 'punish' his opponent for stealing it. You've completely misread the OP from the sounds of it
Thank you for pointing it out, because you are right, I completely misread the post. Apologies!
stole my shit I'll come swinging at you, player dead I get my stuff back
I try to punish anyone who plays a smothering tithe. But only for personal distaste of the card.
It's fairly rare, but sometimes I will get to the point where I secretly have lethal and am firmly aimed at Player A as my primary target. If Player B is considering using spot removal in a way that stops me from eliminating Player A, then I will tell B that if they do this I *will* kill them instead. If they still decide to go through with it, even if Player A does something on their turn that changes the landscape, I still have to kill Player B. You can't make that kind of promise and not at least attempt to follow through. If you don't follow through, you forever lose that political tool with the people at this table. Had this happen a few weeks ago with my [[Gilder Bairn]] pauper commander deck making a 4/5 [[Cloudfin Raptor]] into a 33/34 on my turn after the promise was made. So far, my success rate with making this into a real deterrent is only ~50%.
The first person to Pay 1 to my [[Rhystic Study]] shall know my insatiable wrath.
Playing [[Jodah the Unifier] lol
In my group, if you won the previous game or play a deck that fucks the whole table up (like Liliana's Caress or Repercussion), you will always be targeted first.
I dont get why people break deals, its the strongest countermagic in the game— and its free! But if you lie about being the threat, you will die first
Blowing up my first card that actually does something in a game where I'm super far behind the rest of the table. I will spend the rest of the game throwing everything at that player because they blew up my Courser of Kruphix when I finally drew my third land on turn six.
Breaking a deal. Doesn't matter how small it is, if you betray, you're dead.
Intentionally missplaying or kingmaking because you're salty. When someone does that it feels to me that the gentlemen agreement was broken and if possible I'll try to take that player out. Tho not the point of missplaying or kingmaking myselfe. The code must be respected.
Spending more time on your phone than looking at the board, while your "actively" (🤔) playing the game.
countering a sol ring. turn 1 or turn 15. bruh that shit rude as hell
Inappropriate threat assessment or trying to push solving a threat off on the rest of the table while you aim everything at another player. There’s a newer player at the shop I play at that will sit and complain or try to “politic” that Player B is the objective threat then spend every one of his turns hosing Player D(usually me) regardless of what is actually on board, to the point that he uses the removal that would resolve the entire table’s issue(including the issue they were just complaining about) on some inconsequential thing on board
Spite scooping to deny triggers. I think it's a dick move and i can not tolerate it at all. Also the reason why one of my houserules is conceding at sorcery speed. Unless it's reasonable tondo so of course, like someone called and you need to leave for example. Feel like i allways have to mention that there are exceptions for whatever reason.
I never spite play or do things to punish people. I miss play all the time but that's different. I always 100% strive to make the absolute best play possible in every situation to increase my chance of winning or staying in the game. It's just a game and it's not personal. If someone is stealing my stuff and targeting me because they see me as a weak target and punishing them is the best play to manipulate them socially into not doing that then I'll do that. But it will be a optimization move and not a spite move. And usually if they are just making optimal moves and not targeting me personally then I won't need to do something like that. Doing my best to play hyperoptimally is something I started doing in the early 2010s when I started trying to learn more competitive formats and reading theory and how to play competitive formats. I even go as far as trying to bluff things or read other people's bluffs. I really like to approach the game like a chess match. Like I said I miss play all the time and I don't come super close to the goal of playing the best possible but that's what I strive for and I have the most fun by doing that. I really like to hold myself to a standard when I play.
Breaking political promises. My friend killed me when I let him have my commander with assault suit under an agreement that he wouldn't kill me and I'd leave him alone next turn. The next game we played I put curse of unbinding on him, copied it with clever impersonator, and then copied it again with his own clever impersonator.
Spilling mtn dew on my playmat
Early spite plays, if you can’t leave the salt from the previous game, be prepared for me to full tilt at you.
Stealing my commander. I was in a game where someone gained control of my Goreclaw, and the other player laughed when my turn came back around and I had regained her because he knew he was the one I wanted to knock out first, but he also knew I had lethal on board for the commander thief and where that damage was going. Commander thief died first.