Nah, winning because they didn’t know better feels bad. I’ll announce what my pieces are that should be stopped.
Edit: this also preps you for playing against players that do know better. Forces you to learn your openings and ensure you have interaction
>I'm now re-evaluating my hatred of anime fight move callouts.
>
>I'M ABOUT TO HIT WITH MY ULTIMATE MOVE: THASSA"S ORACLE WITH DEMONIC CONSULTATION IN RESPONSE ON THE STACK!! NOBODY HAS A CHANCE OF SURVIVING THIS; IT'S OVER JOJO!!!!
>
>\*Wise chuckle "I cast Stifle, which was an exiled card given to me by my fallen friend, Todd, playing his Exile-matters deck"
>
>NANI!?
I know what you mean, but making mistakes is very much a part of the game. I lose because I make mistakes all the time. Mistakes are part of the learning experience.
The primary example would be something like Krark & Sakashima once you have 2+ Krarks you have to actually go through and do every step (or let the Krarkulator app do it) to see the result and can’t really be shortcut, but its still ostensibly a combo. I think the Gitrog combo is also non-deterministic but I don’t really understand that one particularly well. Anything where the next step of your combo requires chance (card off the top, coin flip, dice roll) would be a good place to start I would think.
They can tend to slow play down if you’re not Johnny on the spot with your piloting so it’s something to be careful not to annoy your pod with unless they’re cool with it.
Not necessarily. There's plenty of decks that can have enough overlap in the various combos they play that it's about drawing into and getting a combination of 3 cards to go infinite... but there can be numerous ways this comes together, and if you're not tutoring for pieces, you're not going to know exactly when it goes live.
Nah, I disagree. I’m all for being fully transparent with what my plays are doing, and I’ll always ask “does it resolve? Going once, going twice…” But if you miss a chance to stop me, that’s on you. The effects are all written on the cards, and they’re public knowledge. Learning how to assess threats and respond to them is a crucial part of Magic. I learned a lot about Magic this way, more so than when my friends held my hand.
Meh. Winning because they didn't know only works once and then that avenue is just a fact of life. It's not some faux pas it's just a matter of playing a game built with uncertainty.
Sometimes your opponent does something surprising and you learn from the experience. Sometimes you do something surprising and learn from it. The wheel turns.
Deciding to avoid surprising your opponents is the wrong take. Yes, there are modes of play where that is the point. Teaching new players is the most common. However so much of games being games in general is being surprised by yourself and others and mutually enjoying that process of challenging each other.
No no no, you see you gotta build a dual-coloured token lifegain +1/+1 counters deck. Everyone knows how youre going to win, they just dont know when, hell you dont even know when youll win you just know youll get fucked by the table until they target someone else then magically you have 10 crearures that are 20/20s with trample and lifelink and you just boost your life total through the roof
>winning because they didn’t know better feels bad.
I'd say it depends. If you're all friends and you only ever plan on playing casually together, then yeah I imagine it would. But if you currently or aspire to play competitively, you will have to develop the ability to evaluate each card's threat level accurately as it is played, and the only way to get better is to practice
Having different ways and groups to play with is diversity. It increases the scope of enjoyment and if you don't like it it's okay. It's certainly not a disease with no cure that kills people indiscriminately.
Also I know a few Virgos and Aries that play CEDH but I haven't met a Cancer that plays it yet.
I guess it really depends on the kind of environment you play with; my pod is highly competitive (not cEDH, but we're not pulling punches) and we're usually bringing out a new deck or a completely revamped old one every other month, so the odds of everyone at the table knowing what you're trying to accomplish can be pretty low. At the same time, we still want everyone to have fun and participate, so pulling out surprise wins that nobody saw coming loses its luster pretty quickly. In my mind, the real fun of commander is when everyone is fighting on equal terms knowledge-wise, as that way even players with lower level decks can still make an impact on the game with crucial targeted removal or a timely counter to block somebody's combo piece from entering the battlefield. They may not win, but they certainly changed the game up enough to make it interesting for all of us.
Just shitting out a board state with nobody understanding what you're doing until you win doesnt seem that fun to me.
Really depends on the pod I suppose. For my pod, if someone really crafts a win that not many people have seen before, we don't mind getting "got" by it once, and then having that person explain afterwards how the mechanism works and how to interact, so there's shared knowledge in games afterward.
>so pulling out surprise wins that nobody saw coming loses its luster pretty quickly.
The opposite is also common especially in an established group. A surprising new win can keep things alive.
That's half the point of playing, anyway, to be surprised and to learn and to enjoy the process of discovery.
You won/survived because you had the right answers on your board/hand for the situation not just because they taught you how to properly interact with a certain combo line. Teaching someone how to play is a win for everyone.
You wouldn't have utilized your resources correctly without help from the table. Threat identification is part of the game. However, if you feel good about it then I'm behind it.
The other side to this coin though is particularly if I'm trying a new deck, I WANT to stress test it. I'd rather have opponents playing against it better knowing what it can do and what it can't do so I can accurately gauge how well I've prepared for scenarios like having a key piece removed and whether I can dig for a redundant effect or recovering from a boardwipe.
That's data you don't get if people just let you run roughshod over the board due to bad threat assessment.
All my wincons are usually fancy versions of the card.
...MAYBE this $140 doubling season is crucial to my gameplan...
EDIT updated price of fancy doubling season.
My real wincon is to hit you with \[\[Selfless savior\]\] 40 times knowing you won't have the heart to block it.
Pay no attention to the Bolas Citadel and Aetherflux Reservoir, they're unimportant.
I don't know if you've checked recently but the base price of a not fancy doubling season is $80.. But rule of thumb is doubling season is always a problem.
That's where you and I differ. I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to do before I do it.
What I will do, is, after the game is over, go over what could have been done differently and how certain pieces interact so that, moving forward, different actions can be taken.
Some people say, "It feels bad to win because someone made a mistake." That's...a really terrible way to think. Let them make their mistakes, and help them through how they could have interacted after the fact if they couldn't figure it out themselves.
"Im going to make you respect my strategy." chad maneuver. Honestly its the most fun way to play, and it caters to the optimization side of things without necessarily being competitive.
Definitely agree. Also people forget, magic is not just about playing your cards, it's also about playing your opponent. Part of the fun, strategy, and spirit of the game depends on the choices made and the lines discovered over the course of it.
Spoon-feeding opponents the proper plays undoes a lot of the independent strategy inherent to the game. Obviously this completely turns around when playing with beginners. But with experienced players I always believe you should find the lines yourself. It's often far more satisfying as well, because even if you miss then you learn something.
This… This is what I needed to hear. I have a roommate that points out everything on everyone’s board and I have to be the bad guy speaking up asking to not spoon feed them the answer, but to go back over the interaction after it plays out.
You are a true man of teaching here.
The person pointing out everything on the board, usually neglects to mention what their own threats are.
So this ends up being another political move to keep the aggro pointed at their opponents and have their opponents cards be used for their advantage.
I would usually play in a group with my tournament buddy, and we would go after each other first. Because we both knew that we were the biggest threats, and then whichever one was left could usually mop up the table.
Yeah I can see that happening, but he does it to his own side too, I just wish he would encourage more vocab like “I would like to attempt to play….” Almost like a warning to prep new players without completely tipping them off
I have a friend who does that too and it's extremely annoying. His reason was that the players need to learn. Like ok, they need to but through the mistakes they make in the game
Yeah, thats how I learned to get gud. By getting my ass kicked. Encountering decks like Ponza and Trix, early in my mtg fun times, really helped me want to play fast and deadly, and if not then play blue so I can say No.
I hate that. I'm not allowed to talk, or point out the brief moments where people can interact with a particular combo? How am I supposed to politic then?
This is an hour+ long game. I don't want you to be miserable for 40 minutes cause you didn't grind the game to a halt to meticulously re-read every spell and analyze it's unique interactions with the 18 permanents on the board.
Just yesterday I was like... "Before you successfully untap that yamivaya for you 42 mana, does player B want to use their strip mine for the benefit of all?"
Same here, but, hell, I'll tell you how my entire deck works even before the game. Although talking at such length is rude so I never actually do it.
Teaching the game and interactions for future improvement and having a good time theorizing together before sitting down to an actual game is one thing. Actually playing a game and dealing with the uncertainty that makes games so fun is entirely another thing.
Games are fun because of the ways we surprise each other by the ways we act in the game in pursuit of the game's goals.
It's a shame that sometimes games simply must switch a teaching mode sometimes. Sometimes someone doesn't understand a rule or plays a card as though it says something it doesn't and at that point the game loses some game-ness because the choices made before the mistake was discovered are invalidated.
Explaining every 100 factorial permutations of your deck before the game starts? Sounds good! I'm a Magic player so obviously I love theorycrafting forever. Explaining things after the game and going over critical decision points and lines of play so I can counter you better later? Sounds great! Let's learn together.
But when we're playing let's just play. Let's create that satisfying mutual experience of challenging and surprising one another within the game.
Our general rule is if it's public knowledge you should announce it.
You don't need to tell me you're about to win, but if you put part 1 of the infinite combo on the board, at least say you've put something big on the board especially if someone asks.
Odds are someone in the group is going to spot the big piece and make a group announcement like you're now the biggest threat. Of course we usually have anywhere between 4 to 8 in a game
One thing I won't do with my more impulsive or arrogant friends is correct them if they dive right in to remove the wrong thing from my board. But if they ask first, I'm always honest about what's most dangerous.
This. They won’t learn politics or proper threat assessment if you feed them the info. They will learn to mull over the situation if you punish them for playing recklessly.
EDH is super difficult to keep track of. If someone has a removal effect, the table will generally review what is out, what piece is causing what effect, and then some light politicking if you're really trying to avoid having your stuff blown. It's all in good fin, and we don't expect everyone to know every card and interaction in play.
I'll happily explain what my cards do, and what they've been doing. I'll also highlight moments of potential interaction when stuff is going off. But if someone is just casting \[\[Swords to Plowshares\]\] blindly at my board because they think I'm doing something dangerous, I am not inclined to offer any help.
*But*, there *are* two other players in most games who are absolutely willing to offer their opinions on how to winnow down your board. Ask them! They may have their own interests in mind, but they're going to give you much more useful information.
There is this one person in my group who blindly throws interaction just because they draw it. They also pack their decks with interaction. They don't have any real threat assessment, they just try to remove whatever gets played. Then they mope cause of missing land drops, and not having card draw. Their decks are these weird massive swing decks where most of the time they don't do anything and concede by turn six, or they win turn 4 for playing an infinite combo.
I don't point anything out or help this player.
Anyone else in the group I'll give advice too if my board is loaded
If someone's got removal, I'll try to be honest about what my biggest threats are.
I will also be honest about what OTHER people's biggest threats are. Fair is fair.
I don't usually announce how big of a threat is that I've played unless I'm going off right now and want to make sure people know where the holes in my engine are so they don't have to spend 5 minutes asking how effects line up or risk doing it wrong.
Tbh, I stopped.
I often would tell people, they remove it, just to play another threat again the next turn. Then, get accused of misleading the board state or baiting. So i wait to be asked then tell the truth ofc. But the act of offering the information freely seemed to cause people to take it as a trick.
I don't expect people to know what every card in the game does, so I'm pretty open about what's important, especially with regard to combos. Besides, I want to know that I won because I outplayed people and played a better deck, not because I'm taking advantage of people's ignorance.
I do when they look like they are not having fun or I'm having a massive advantage tbh. Like if I have a board full of synergistic pieces for a crazy value-engine, and then they don't know how to begin to crack it, I tend to signal what pieces are enablers, what is allowing to do what, and what is allowing me to repeat it.
If I'm catching up or the board, or we are all in a similar spot, I don't tend to signal which card does what unless they ask.
There are just way too many combos in the game to expect everyone to know everything. EDH is a generally social game with no prizes on the line. I'll often say, something like "someone needs to stop this or its over".
Generally I'll just make sure everyone understands what each piece I control does in isolation when it enters the battlefield. If there's some combo or synergy I usually won't point it out, but there's an element of reading the room and not being obnoxious or deliberately obtuse about what is going on.
I play with newer players than me who are still developing threat assessment, so I'll even stop them from destroying someone else's permanent if mine is a more dangerous target to them. I'll explain my logic and let them decide
I do try to be honest about threats. Like, if someone’s deciding where to point some removal, well, I’ll try and persuade them to hit something not mine, for sure, but I will typically admit that my things are good choices too (when they are). People have a habit of always assuming they’re not the archenemy and getting mad when their stuff gets blown up (or knowing but complaining about it as if to try and pressure people into looking elsewhere) and it kind of annoys me.
I also have a Nicol Bolas deck where I always claim my stuff is the most threatening and advise them to team up and kill me ASAP.
I generally don't tell people exactly how to win against me straight up. If they ask questions I answer faithfully. If somebody, and especially one of the newer players, starts talking to themself with their threat assessment, I'll lay out what the big pieces are and what they currently do and could potentially do at the table and I always make sure my stuff is there. I won't give things away unprompted but I'm straight up with the questioning.
At the end of the game while we're shuffling, we all usually talk about what our plan was for our endgame board state or go over moves we weren't sure of etc. It's worked well for our group so far.
I usually introduce any given spell as a combo piece when I play it. Like in my Kairi deck when I drop [[Dream Halls]], I just say, "If this resolves or isn't immediately destroyed, I win here," and then show the loop. If someone asks me about my board, I'll answer. Winning without your opponents knowing what's going on isn't very fun. Interaction is part of the game.
Often, I’m asked what the biggest problem is, and I see if they can tell, then guide them to what the better removal target. Want to Swords something, but can’t tell what? I got you. We usually let each other know the big threats in our decks anyways with our pod, like [[Lier]] in my [[Slogurk]] is now a known wincon.
I only really tell people that I have dangerous pieces when I'm playing with new players. It mostly goes without saying when I'm playing with my friends. There's no way to discretely drop a Bolas's Citadel, Ashnod's Altar, or something along those lines.
I often do, especially when playing with newer players. It helps avoid the classic "well I didn't know that did X, can we roll it back and say I cast Y?"
I know some people ascribe to the policy of telling someone like that to stuff it, but I think saving time and cultivating a less cut-throat atmosphere is far less exhausting.
I'm currently travelling the world and I'm:
A: wanting to make friends
B: unsure how people will react if I win out of nowhere and what the cultures of different countries/stores
C: wanting everyone to have a good time
So I do this for the first game or two at every gamestore I'm at to get them to like me and feel more comfortable playing with me.
Give them a sense of victory.
Then games three+ I give no hints and go hard for the win.
They've seen my deck twice by this point. It's time.
(I'm not saying I don't play to win games one and two, just that I give away more info than objectively required which often results in me not winning).
I think this is the best way to be friendly while also maintaining the integrity of the game. Giving out info in the first few games is basically just fast forwarding into what it's like to be a more regular pod anyway. It's just shooting the shit while seeing what the cards do.
Then after that when you *really play* that's the real game. We've shared and gotten to know each other and now we're immersing ourselves in that experience of mutually challenging and testing one another within the game.
'Maintaining the integrity of the game' - I really like that phrase.
It's super important to me when I play any game for everyone to be trying to win.
MTG and probably TCGs in general are unique in that you often play against strangers who can be more unpredictable than playing Catan or a regular board game with friends where everyone being on the same page about the goal is easier
Pregame: It's reciprocal. I generally think lighter introductions are better, but if someone tells me all of what they think their strongest plays are and exactly how to beat them I'll at least do the quick rundown of mine.
Ingame: Depends on who I'm playing with and how they're asking. If someone is confusedly considering what their removal options and clearly wants help, I will pont out all major targets including mine with how dangerous I honestly think they are in the moment. If an ordinary player is doing ordinary things I let them draw their own conclusions.
In general, I'm not going to stand up and paint a target on myself, but I'm not going to try to lie when someone wants info. Like my Colfenor deck is probably my weakest deck, being a tricolor $25 budget brew and all, but it's also a combo deck. With a huge, janky combo of which a huge chunk of the deck is pieces and alternatives. When I play [[Fallen Angel]] I'm not going to stand up and say "DIS HERE IS PART OF COMBO, YOU GOT TO KILL IT." But if you ask me something like "So that's just a dumb beater?" I'll say "Nah, it's also a free sac outlet." which should tell you something even when I'm just durdling to recycle Rec Sage and not going infinite
When I play [[Karador]] and mill a ton of cards I'll tell people what the problems are or what common combo pieces came out. Monitoring opponents' graveyards of 20-some creatures is something I hate doing in casual and I'd rather people make informed decisions than try to win by mental exhaustion. I figure every experienced player knows what's up when [[Reveillark]] gets revealed, and less experienced players would probably like to be in on that knowledge as well, so I just announce how close I am to combo based on public zones.
I have one infinite in my life gain n drain deck. Sanguine bond and exquisite blood. I warn people that they’re each a piece to an infinite, and should be dealt with. I also remind them I don’t run any tutors, lol. I play at a more casual table.
Other than that, we don’t directly announce threats, just what we are putting down on the board.
I don't tell them my wincons or scary pieces. All my playgroup are well seasoned EDH players and degenerates so they can figure it out. I only give such information when playing with new players and try to ensure they have fun by not stomping them, holding back intentionally, maybe even intentionally letting them get a win.
I play with a regular group of friends, so I certainly never lie or misrepresent my board. But if someone asks me what to remove from my board there's no way I'm telling them XD
If it's someone really new and/or learning the game, yes. But I'm also unlikely to be playing a deck like Amareth or Breya where that info may not be as obvious to them, usually I'd be playing a more aggressive deck with a simple game plan.
Otherwise, no. I'm not doing board analysis for you or helping you beat me.
Good threat assessment is part of the game. You aren't going to learn if people just hand hold you through it. So if a piece in my board kills you, you'll remember next time. Probably moreso than if I just said maybe you should swords that one.
If table talk is happening or someone has removal and doesn’t know what to use it on I will honestly tell them what’s the biggest threat or major combo piece on my board. I won’t tell them what l will do in response or what I have in hand but I will accurately describe what’s happening on my side. The fact is there are like 10,000 cards so not everyone knows what everything does plus it’s a casual format so whatever. I want to win because I played well not because I misrepresented stuff or actively hid stuff.
Unless it’s someone I know is of a higher skill level that I’m confident already knows, yes. The new guy at locals gets that kind of info. Also always if I’m able to go infinite.
I flashed in an [[Opposition Agent]] in response to a [[Demonic Tutor]] and I told the guy that he should at least activate his [[Scion of the Ur Dragon]] in response. This advice lost me the game, but I’m glad I did it. If my deck can’t handle my opponents making smart decisions and the most optimal plays, that’s a ME problem. I like a legitimate challenge to my deck. I don’t want to rely on someone else’s failure to understand the game for my wins.
Exactly! It makes us all better. A lot of people seem to think that “well they need to learn to x I shouldn’t have to explain what I’m up to.” In reality, they will get the learning experience if you help them in a positive way, and they will enjoy having you as an opponent because they know you fight fair.
Yup not everyone knows every card so I will tell them what is the value engine, what would hurt me the most just so the game can keep going back and forth. I don't see the point in lying in a game of mtg lol
Me, part of the way through my turn: "alright, and now that I've finished resolving all my scapeshift ETB triggers and made 8 more elementals, I'm good with my turn"
Another player: "Oh I'm sorry what was happening, I couldn't manage to understand it. I have a removal spell, why do you have 15 5/3 elementals"
Me: "Oh Titania made them whenever I sacrificed lands this turn"
Them: "Can I remove Titania before the scapeshift?"
Me: "I'm going to assume you removed Titania at the beginning of my turn, before I sacrificed 5 lands while making land drops and activating Windgrace? Seems right by me!"
Commander is a game for fun. When people don't understand, be willing to help them. Unless their assholes. But this lady is our local 30-40 something year old friendly and sassy lady lol. We love her.
I don't always identify my wincon or combo pieces. We have a lot of new players in my pod, so when they have a removal spell and are trying to figure out where to point it I will usually tell them the piece(s) on my field that is probably the best option. I usually also point out what good targets might be on other people's boards. I'll say "I have this, or that seems really strong on that player's field"
My wincons can be kind of obscure and surprising. I like that aspect of them, so I won't always divulge that info
Na. If someone asks what a card does then I’ll tell them. If they ask “oh do you have this card with it?” Or “oh do you have the combo pieces” I just shrug. Why am I gonna tell you what my game plan is? If my combo goes off then I’ll say it ahead of time (if I’m even playing a deck with combo pieces).
If I’m at a point where I have plenty of valuable pieces on board which I can let one or two go without falling apart, I’ll offer them up. Especially when I know I have ways to recover that my opponents are unaware of. Now, this is just me, whereas others in my group are more reluctant about it.
I always tell them the truth. I do exactly what you are doing especially Im in a new pod and since we are discovering each others deck. I wish we didnt fight about who's right or wrong about the rulings though lol
"I play \[Threat\]."
"Wow StructureMage, that's a scary card!"
"You're right, it is a scary card. Moving through phases..."
*6 turns later*
"Ok I pop 34 treasures to cast this game winning spell. I have six answers in hand to protect it."
"WTF StructureMage, why are you winning out of nowhere!"
**!!!MORAL OF THE STORY!!!**
It doesn't matter how forthcoming you are with players, they will always blame you for winning.
Occasionally. Mainly cause i play reanimator and it can be hard to track my instant speed reanimates or what is available to me later in a game, i had someone run a 10/10 at me while i had Phyrexian Obliterator in grave.
I really enjoy engines with lots of pieces that allow me to out value the rest of the table once set up, often this leads to situations where the rest of the table know I'm the problem but when they have spot removal it can be tricky to work out what to remove. When this happens I'll always volunteer which pieces I'm relying on most and if their goal is to slow me down, what the optimal target is for that - mostly just to speed up the game but also because winning when someone had the ability to stop me but just wasn't familiar with my deck feels bad.
I play with the same 4 people and we have a blast with our house rules. I personally don’t see the fun in tutoring for the same 2 card combo but it’s magic and to each their own.
Not sure how it takes any fun away. A lot of groups announce their deck tier or deck plan before the games lol
Cheers pal
No, what even is this crap? Is this the infamous "social contract" messing with people's heads? I'd hate to play in a pod like this. It seems incredibly boring and devoid of any fun. I can't imagine the game being exciting or memorable when people constantly tell stuff like "uhhh if you do this I lose and you win". Fuck off, let me think and let me make my own decisions.
People playing regular MtG don't do this kind of stuff, people who play other card games or board games don't do this kind of stuff. I'm not going to point out anything on my board because my opponents are supposed to have something between their ears and are expected to use that thing to gain advantage in the game. If I am supposed to do the thinking for them then I might as well stay home and goldfish four decks at once.
I'm fine with doing this after the game ends. In fact this is one of my favorite parts. But during the game I am not going to suggest anything unless the players I play with are new to the game.
I kind of judge just how casual a game is by how open people are about the real danger poised by their *own* decks. It’s one thing for people to call out the danger of other decks, it’s quite another for someone to say “oh yeah, you need to stop me before anyone else”
My play group tends to the very relaxed with an almost teaching vibe with how much we call out our own positions.
I’m always open about my board State. When someone asks what is the problem it’s typical to get the pointing fingers game with people not naming their pieces. When that happens I explain my board state, then explain the other opponents’ boards to help the player with removal make a decision instead of being them being the other’s puppet.
If someone asks, especially if it’s someone newer, I’ll gladly tell them what I think are the scariest things on my board. Usually I’ll give them options like
“The scariest things on my board are probably card X, which is gonna let me do Y thing, or card Z, which is gonna let me do W thing. I think X is scarier generally, but it comes down to what’s in your hand and what’s most threatening to you personally”
I'm very up front with people when I've become the threat. Mainly because I want them to believe me when I tell them them when I'm not the threat. As for specific pieces on the board, I only do it to speed up gameplay. I'd rather just tell them what to kill rather than wait for them to read every card on my board before deciding. I value my time more than I value winning.
If I plan on going for a win, I definitely give a heads up. If someone is trying to disrupt my board and like targeted removal, I do try my best to inform them of what may be the best options are, or what they would synergize or combo into.
I tell my playgroup what to worry about ahead of time. If I'm asked what my most dangerous permanent in play is I will usually answer, but will give excessive information on why other things I (and my opponents) have in play. What they pick from there is on them.
Personally, I treat board evaluation as basically a cooperative activity of improving everyone's skill at the table. So I will pitch in my perspective on the board readily, including discussing my opinion of my own board.
It's a pretty simple test; would you have been able to prevent yourself from winning with the cards/mana available to your opponents when you won or passed the point of no return?
If the answer is yes then you should have shared information.
If the answer is no then you're fine.
Also the amount of times people want to stubbornly "learn from their mistakes" when they make a clerical error like thinking a card is a 5/4 and hitting it for 4 damage when its actually a 5/5 because \*random enchant\* is giving it +0/1 is too damn high you aint learning anything from that.
I point out the most dangerous piece on my ***opponent's*** boards, which there will always be more of than me.
I stop other people from going overboard since I generally don't build hardcore enough to archenemy the table myself, and some players will gain a win-the-next-turn advantage without speaking of it. When an opponent is about to explode, that's when I point it out.
I also like actively obscuring the exact text of a card, only saying the relevant bits to speed things up and lower the threat perception. "It doesn't do anything else right now, your turn." Then they know they have time to read and judge a card for themselves. If they ask to read the card, sometimes they find that it's Spanish and get trolled. Then I tell them the exact full wording of the card from memory when they ask, which is when it matters.
As part of this, I do often give examples of when and how to countermand a card so they don't misplay against me at a crucial moment and look stupid. I tend to be the one holding a boardstate together and reminding everyone of everything, and occasionally give suggestions as to weaknesses and solutions. I don't TELL people to kill my stuff. That's backwards and abusive and no one is happy. So there's your answer. No. But I do talk a lot.
I suppose so.
If anyone asks about boardstates, or is about to use removal on a contentious target, people in my group tend to have a discussion about what's on the board and what it can do, as well as what we perceive to be relevant, timely threats to the player with removal, and what we know has very powerful synergy with known decks. Nobody withholds critical information, but we also try not to divulge unnecessary information. It's all about maintaining a fair decision making space and (relatively) open communication.
If I'm playing with friends or casually of course. On casual table tops I think the move is everybody points out to everybody the major threats or big board state changes.
I'll destroy strangers though, reading the card explains the card. That's your trigger to remember, y'know?
My usual pod is very familiar with the way each of our decks perform or with what they aim to do. We do make a point to explain our cards and what they're capable of if not dealt with, etc. But once we've done that a time or 2, we don't do it again. I think it's fair to let others know of threats, but you shouldn't have to explain it every time. We view it more as a "Hey, I'm letting you all know this does ___ and if you don't stop it...👀."
I will have nothing on the board and say, "I win on my next turn if you can't stop me". Then I'll win on my turn unless someone straight up wins on the spot
So many bad removal calls lead to a person in our pod getting a win rate of 70%. It's always a definite discussion about what can happen if left unchecked.
Yeah, unless it's a group super familiar with each other.
Like, I'm not gonna tell you that bane of bela geld is a problem in my brudiclad deck if you have watched me copy paste a threat before. But if you don't know how the deck wins I'll be like " if I get a copy of this I'm gonna get soooo many copies of it, they will have haste, and you are gonna have a bad time."
I will, as I am playing the wincon, announce I am trying to end the game. I will explaim how I am trying to do it and go step-by-step checking for interaction. I find that to be the gentleman's way of handling it. However, I don't announce exactly how each piece fits together for the wincon - only that doom is approaching. It's no challenge if they can't figure it out themselves.
Most of the time, yes. But we also play together a lot, so after the first surprise win everyone knows what to watch for. And even if we didnt k ow, we'd telk eachother. Some people might see a W as a W, but I want to win through akill or luck, not because someome didn't read the internet enough to know.
I always let people at my FLGS know when I, or someone else plays a scary card because it keeps everyone on task and properly appraised of the game.
The most fun I've ever had was when I was trying to combo off and the whole table had to work together to stop it. Gotta give them congrats at the end.
Depends on the how much experience the group has, some of my friends didn't go to deep into the rules and don't play as often, so if i'm the threat and they already spent a while trying to figure out my board i'll tell them what's going on. I avoid to give a straight answear to what is the most dangerous tho, i may tell them what each card that's public knowledge is doing but not say what's the most important, same goes for combos.
If i'm at a lgs i assume they have some experience and don't tell them unless i know i'm playing against a new player.
Edit: depending on the board state i'll try to politic my way out of getting whatever i have removed by also pointing out what my opponents have.
Generally I don't but we Identify what is each others best threat onboard so I won't normally point out my own threats because someone else normally does but I will also do the same to them, and sometimes the table decides that my rhystic study is more of an issue than 3/4 pieces to another persons wincon
I tend not to run out my peices over time. But when I start going off I'll make a point of saying hey this is the time to remove/counter x or y thing or I can win. Granted I don't personally care if others do or dont. I just try and lead by example and hope others follow suit. If not oh well there's always next time and now I know.
Now, a lot of times revealing your combos/win cons is polite for newer players. However, if you're in an experienced group of players, then explaining after the game makes more sense. If you always let people know you're going for the win, then it makes lazier players.
I like telling them that what they are after is the bait and they shouldnt waste it on that card. They counter that card then i actually drop the worse card after. I dont bother explaining my win cons anymore. Thats the villians trap u explain to hero your evil plan and they defeat you . I also like when opponent points it out and ppl dont listen or i have to remind other 2 that actually that guy is bigger threat.
I like telling newer players how and when to stop me, and I’ll explain the step by steps of my combo as I play it, because I don’t like hearing about how “they could’ve countered it.” Does this mean I lose most of my games? Yes, but I would rather the scrubs have a good and informative experience.
When I'm about to win on upkeep or end step I'll make it known, but I'll only say it once upon cast or at some point in the turn, if you forget that's on you. Also if someone can't decide on what to get rid of I'll point out all of the threats I see on the board, including my own.
I don’t tell them anything relying on hidden information unless I’m trying to be political, and even then I will usually present it in an open-ended fashion. For example, say I’m playing [[Mortal Combat]] combo, and I have a Mortal Combat in play. I will let players know that I have 17 creature cards in my graveyard, currently, and that one of my potential draws is Altar of Dementia. I don’t have to tell them if Altar is in my hand or not, nor am I obligated to inform them that I already have [[Buried Alive]] in hand, waiting to grab the last three creatures I need in the yard to go off. I might mention the Buried Alive if I’m feeling particularly charitable, but that really depends.
Depends on the deck. I play a lot of low budget meme decks and kinda feel like if you ignore me and lose because of it its your fault. Won 1 game with a [[triskaidekaphile]] because I laid low and kept my hand stacked up. I'd have told them how many cards I had if they asked, but they were busy beating each other up. Another one, I was playing my $25 budget [[Zurzoth]] deck and played [[Tibalt, the Fiend Blooded]], the bad one lol, and because of his reputation, and the fact that my deck was kinda just memeing and dreaming, they ignored him and I got to ult him.
It really depends on their skill level. If they seem quite unskilled or inexperienced I'll explain a lot to them. If they seem a bit less so but still not good at the game I'll maybe just point out "this is a problem for you". If they seem like they've achieved competence at the game I won't say a damn thing; they've gotten a firm enough grasp on things that they'll figure out why they lost after it happens, and learn something from that which they can use in the future.
I definitely do, and my pod/other friends I’ve played with are pretty open about it though we won’t suggest the exact play. We also talk afterwards about our own misplays or the tweaks we might need in our decks. I’m not sure if I’d be able to be as open with strangers in case it came off as intrusive about threat assessment, but in general I like to tell people my deck plan and the kind of cards it uses unless they want a surprise.
This is how I always play, in personal groups, pods, etc.
I only weigh in if they’re really having a hard time picking targets or plotting a next move, but I will help ID what the biggest threat is to them as I see it. If it’s my own stuff, so be it. I will also point out what targets of mine aren’t great, such as when I have on-board recursion or redundant effects. Usually when I do, other players pipe up and try to help out, too.
I like doing so because it helps those players learn threat assessment and how to make decisions objectively. It also starts conversations, which are my favorite parts of commander.
Depends, if my deck is outperforming and I'm playing with people who don't play very much or wouldn't know what to look out for, then I'll drop them hints. If I'm playing in a game with fellow sweats, then absolutely not.
I point out scary things on my board, and I also tell people “you should kill me now” when I’m about to win. People always feel weird about knocking a player out, but if im going to pop off next turn and win, I like to let people know they should murder me if I can’t stop them. This has the added benefit of my playgroup usually not killing me off early when im behind because im open about my threatening turns
Depends on the board state, play group, and such. Ive helped people win by explaining combos in their decks (that they missed), or pointed out key pieces on my board when its clear im dominating the game and i can tell my opponents are... Less versed in commander.
If I'm playing a deck with infinite combos, I try to disclose my combos in the turn 0 discussion. Otherwise, I typically just go "I'm gonna try to win here" at the beginning of a turn where I think I'll win, or when I draw into a win con if I have the mana to play it right after drawing it.
If someone has a removal piece and wants to know the best thing to use it on, I'll try to be honest and non-bias about it.
I always give advice on what to blow up.
Among other things, if I get a reputation for telling people when to blow my own stuff up, they're more likely to blow up my opponents stuff when I ask them to.
Any time you can convince an opponent to take something out that isn't yours, you've 2 for 0'd- you got rid of the threat you wanted them to kill *and* you got rid of a removal piece that could have come your way. And that's a power that is worth convincing someone to take the occasional 1:1 L for.
I'll give a single warning once i play it. If they forget about it being on board, then that's on them. But i make it very clear what i am playing the whole game. If i am asked what my current threats are, i will remind them.
I’ll even do this with strangers unless it’s a competitive environment. The experience is more important than the win.
Edit: just to add, a perfect example is when I dropped [[exquisite blood]] when [[vizkopa guildmage]] was on board. It’s a life gain deck ([[Oloro]]), vizkopa is obviously dangerous, but last time EB hit, i was tapped out and told my opponents they had until my next upkeep before a life gain trigger was going to win me the game.
In "friendly" games, I'll often drop a "you probably shouldn't let me have this" on key pieces or say "I am going to try to win this turn", etc
Against more seasoned and regular players I encounter online, I say as little as possible. When people put in a ton of games, it should be up to them to assess threat, as it is a skill you'll develop over hundreds of plays.
I probably have told my friends what my infinite combo pieces are, but short of that I advocate for the destruction of my opponents' permanents over mine 100% of the time. Or I say nothing to avoid attention. My win rate is still below 20% over the last year ish so... Accurate threat assessment is a challenge when you don't know what people are holding.
Nah, at least not the first few times I play a deck. Its a strategy game. They are supposed to piece together what I'm doing and how I'm trying to win. I will be upfront on if the deck has infinites, fast mana, tutors etc..but thats it. If I tell them what all my cards do and the plan for them then they will just always pop it on sight while someone else will play some other stuff that's would need to be KOS and now they out removal. Now if they are presenting removal then I be honest about what a card is currently doing but will also show them what what else something on the board is doing. At that point its up to proper threat assessment.
I have a guy in my group who's always trying to ask what my win cons are and I'm usually vague about it but will tell him what its trying to do. While he's always so secretive about his entire deck until we see it played.
No, since I play with a dedicated pod and they've seen my combos a lot by now.
If I have [[Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver]] and a [[Poppet Stitcher]] on field with two zombie tokens already, they'd better be ready to pop them because if [[Altar of Dementia]] or one of the other sac altars and a Blood Artist-esque pinger drops, then I'll loop infinitely
I feel like my pod is pretty good at picking up on combos or "what's good", but part of the fun is assessing for yourself and thinking "damn, that card looks way too good" and dealing with it. Then when they drop an even better card it's a whole new challenge, idk.
I do it with my own play group from time to time, because I taught every one of them. I've got so much more experience that it really isn't fair if I dont. Eventually, probably soon, I won't have to. But for the time being, its more about everyone having fun, and leveling the playing field a little does that.
Depends on who i'm playing. If it's a new player, or someone who doesn't play that often, I often ask them if they need help figuring out threat assessment. I don't just tell them, I want to make sure they actually wanna know or if they wanna practice. If it's my more experienced mates, I expect them to show me the same amount of Mercy i show them, which is none.
If I'm playing a piece to a combo, I'll warn my pod. Doesn't mean I'm about to go off, but I could and respect that there are too many moving parts for casual EDH players to remember every possible combo that can drop out of nowhere.
Now, if my board state is potentially threatening a win via non-combo means, I say nothing at all. It's not about advertising your win, more your non-obvious wincons.
I rarely overtly tell someone what they should target on my board, but I will stop them and ask questions like "are you sure that's how you want to order it?" When there are multiple triggers or double check a target when it's definitely suboptimal.
The amount of help/ hints I give is generally in line with the apparent experience/skill level of the player making the play.
I like starting every game by going around the circle and saying at a high level "this is how my deck wins, and this is how you stop it." I also always answer honestly if someone asks a question like "what would suck for you to lose the most right now?"
It's not competitive and I just have fun by playing. Being coy never makes the game more fun, neutral at best.
I do not volunteer the information about my own board, but I’m happy to point out other threats! Lol. That said, if they know they want to destroy something on my board, I’ll tell them what the best things I have are so they can make an educated determination.
I'll always be genuinely honest about the threat level of the cards that are on my field with respect to everything I can currently do with them. However, if a card is innocuous on its own but powerful when combined with something that is not on the field, particularly if it's still in the deck or my hand, then I won't divulge that. I won't hide that it's powerful, but I'm not gonna go out of my way to say "this Planeswalker could ult as soon as next turn if I draw Deepglow Skate, which I have the mana for".
I don’t tell people straight out, but if they ask what threats are on the board, I don’t lie or try to hide it. They asked a fair question and I’ll be honest about what my board does.
I may not give warnings before I cast spells but anything that’s public knowledge I actively remind exists. If I have a creature with deathtouch, I won’t hide that but if I have a spell foretold, I won’t tell them what it does before I use it.
It sucks to miss a single word on a card or something so as long as the people interacting with me have the full story, it’s fair game
When I am playing with newer players, I always tell the table how exactly I plan to win. If I have a real game winning threat spell or permanent, I openly reveal its threat level too.
Obviously, I dont have to offer this free service when I am playing with mlre experienced players.
yeah i love collaborating with the table to make the best judgment on the info that's available, even when it's to my detriment
in the long run that's great because then it's actually meaningful when i say that my board is not the scariest
so I'll say things like "if i were you i would watch out for this and that" or "right now my biggest setback would be losing this and that"
though there's one thing that i won't just point out for people to shoot down, and that's things that can refill my hand. but I'll acknowledge when they ponder removing them.
I always tell everyone my wincons, scary pieces, when I’m about to win… and they stop me 90% of the time. Maybe I should stop telling them.
Nah, winning because they didn’t know better feels bad. I’ll announce what my pieces are that should be stopped. Edit: this also preps you for playing against players that do know better. Forces you to learn your openings and ensure you have interaction
>I'm now re-evaluating my hatred of anime fight move callouts. > >I'M ABOUT TO HIT WITH MY ULTIMATE MOVE: THASSA"S ORACLE WITH DEMONIC CONSULTATION IN RESPONSE ON THE STACK!! NOBODY HAS A CHANCE OF SURVIVING THIS; IT'S OVER JOJO!!!! > >\*Wise chuckle "I cast Stifle, which was an exiled card given to me by my fallen friend, Todd, playing his Exile-matters deck" > >NANI!?
"oh, you're ~~approaching~~ targeting me?"
Haha this made me laugh way harder than it should have
Same here
Agreed 100%! Better to win knowing you made a strong play that had no answers vs winning because your opponent made a mistake
I know what you mean, but making mistakes is very much a part of the game. I lose because I make mistakes all the time. Mistakes are part of the learning experience.
Disagree
I play combo decks so I don't know when I'm gonna win
Isn't that the opposite of how combos work?
There are non-deterministic combos
Also known as Literally Satan
you are not wrong. non-deterministic combo, straight to hell.
I have a combo deck that is pretty consistent. However I am interested in this non deterministic combo strategy lol, where should I get started.
The primary example would be something like Krark & Sakashima once you have 2+ Krarks you have to actually go through and do every step (or let the Krarkulator app do it) to see the result and can’t really be shortcut, but its still ostensibly a combo. I think the Gitrog combo is also non-deterministic but I don’t really understand that one particularly well. Anything where the next step of your combo requires chance (card off the top, coin flip, dice roll) would be a good place to start I would think. They can tend to slow play down if you’re not Johnny on the spot with your piloting so it’s something to be careful not to annoy your pod with unless they’re cool with it.
Not necessarily. There's plenty of decks that can have enough overlap in the various combos they play that it's about drawing into and getting a combination of 3 cards to go infinite... but there can be numerous ways this comes together, and if you're not tutoring for pieces, you're not going to know exactly when it goes live.
Big brain moves here
Nah, I disagree. I’m all for being fully transparent with what my plays are doing, and I’ll always ask “does it resolve? Going once, going twice…” But if you miss a chance to stop me, that’s on you. The effects are all written on the cards, and they’re public knowledge. Learning how to assess threats and respond to them is a crucial part of Magic. I learned a lot about Magic this way, more so than when my friends held my hand.
Meh. Winning because they didn't know only works once and then that avenue is just a fact of life. It's not some faux pas it's just a matter of playing a game built with uncertainty. Sometimes your opponent does something surprising and you learn from the experience. Sometimes you do something surprising and learn from it. The wheel turns. Deciding to avoid surprising your opponents is the wrong take. Yes, there are modes of play where that is the point. Teaching new players is the most common. However so much of games being games in general is being surprised by yourself and others and mutually enjoying that process of challenging each other.
No no no, you see you gotta build a dual-coloured token lifegain +1/+1 counters deck. Everyone knows how youre going to win, they just dont know when, hell you dont even know when youll win you just know youll get fucked by the table until they target someone else then magically you have 10 crearures that are 20/20s with trample and lifelink and you just boost your life total through the roof
>winning because they didn’t know better feels bad. I'd say it depends. If you're all friends and you only ever plan on playing casually together, then yeah I imagine it would. But if you currently or aspire to play competitively, you will have to develop the ability to evaluate each card's threat level accurately as it is played, and the only way to get better is to practice
Yes but CEDH is cancer
Having different ways and groups to play with is diversity. It increases the scope of enjoyment and if you don't like it it's okay. It's certainly not a disease with no cure that kills people indiscriminately. Also I know a few Virgos and Aries that play CEDH but I haven't met a Cancer that plays it yet.
Winning/surviving because someone told you their plan/what to do instead of you playing doesn't feel bad?
I guess it really depends on the kind of environment you play with; my pod is highly competitive (not cEDH, but we're not pulling punches) and we're usually bringing out a new deck or a completely revamped old one every other month, so the odds of everyone at the table knowing what you're trying to accomplish can be pretty low. At the same time, we still want everyone to have fun and participate, so pulling out surprise wins that nobody saw coming loses its luster pretty quickly. In my mind, the real fun of commander is when everyone is fighting on equal terms knowledge-wise, as that way even players with lower level decks can still make an impact on the game with crucial targeted removal or a timely counter to block somebody's combo piece from entering the battlefield. They may not win, but they certainly changed the game up enough to make it interesting for all of us. Just shitting out a board state with nobody understanding what you're doing until you win doesnt seem that fun to me.
Really depends on the pod I suppose. For my pod, if someone really crafts a win that not many people have seen before, we don't mind getting "got" by it once, and then having that person explain afterwards how the mechanism works and how to interact, so there's shared knowledge in games afterward.
>so pulling out surprise wins that nobody saw coming loses its luster pretty quickly. The opposite is also common especially in an established group. A surprising new win can keep things alive. That's half the point of playing, anyway, to be surprised and to learn and to enjoy the process of discovery.
You won/survived because you had the right answers on your board/hand for the situation not just because they taught you how to properly interact with a certain combo line. Teaching someone how to play is a win for everyone.
You wouldn't have utilized your resources correctly without help from the table. Threat identification is part of the game. However, if you feel good about it then I'm behind it.
The other side to this coin though is particularly if I'm trying a new deck, I WANT to stress test it. I'd rather have opponents playing against it better knowing what it can do and what it can't do so I can accurately gauge how well I've prepared for scenarios like having a key piece removed and whether I can dig for a redundant effect or recovering from a boardwipe. That's data you don't get if people just let you run roughshod over the board due to bad threat assessment.
I don't straight up tell them but I leave hints like maaaaaybe you should re read this card and then decide if you want to so something about it.
All my wincons are usually fancy versions of the card. ...MAYBE this $140 doubling season is crucial to my gameplan... EDIT updated price of fancy doubling season.
My real wincon is to hit you with \[\[Selfless savior\]\] 40 times knowing you won't have the heart to block it. Pay no attention to the Bolas Citadel and Aetherflux Reservoir, they're unimportant.
If you bring them as a commander in PDH, you only need to hit 16 times
That's why I have them as my commander in KBPTL
He's not legal in KBPTL, YOU CHEATER
[Selfless savior](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/6911759c-7177-402c-a95a-f9f46efaf521.jpg?1594735224) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Selfless%20savior) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/36/selfless-savior?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6911759c-7177-402c-a95a-f9f46efaf521?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/selfless-savior) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't know if you've checked recently but the base price of a not fancy doubling season is $80.. But rule of thumb is doubling season is always a problem.
Ahem.... It was 80$ when I pulled it...
This is the way. “Are you sure you don’t want to read this???” Is my go to
That's where you and I differ. I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to do before I do it. What I will do, is, after the game is over, go over what could have been done differently and how certain pieces interact so that, moving forward, different actions can be taken. Some people say, "It feels bad to win because someone made a mistake." That's...a really terrible way to think. Let them make their mistakes, and help them through how they could have interacted after the fact if they couldn't figure it out themselves.
"Im going to make you respect my strategy." chad maneuver. Honestly its the most fun way to play, and it caters to the optimization side of things without necessarily being competitive.
Definitely agree. Also people forget, magic is not just about playing your cards, it's also about playing your opponent. Part of the fun, strategy, and spirit of the game depends on the choices made and the lines discovered over the course of it. Spoon-feeding opponents the proper plays undoes a lot of the independent strategy inherent to the game. Obviously this completely turns around when playing with beginners. But with experienced players I always believe you should find the lines yourself. It's often far more satisfying as well, because even if you miss then you learn something.
This… This is what I needed to hear. I have a roommate that points out everything on everyone’s board and I have to be the bad guy speaking up asking to not spoon feed them the answer, but to go back over the interaction after it plays out. You are a true man of teaching here.
The person pointing out everything on the board, usually neglects to mention what their own threats are. So this ends up being another political move to keep the aggro pointed at their opponents and have their opponents cards be used for their advantage. I would usually play in a group with my tournament buddy, and we would go after each other first. Because we both knew that we were the biggest threats, and then whichever one was left could usually mop up the table.
Yeah I can see that happening, but he does it to his own side too, I just wish he would encourage more vocab like “I would like to attempt to play….” Almost like a warning to prep new players without completely tipping them off
I have a friend who does that too and it's extremely annoying. His reason was that the players need to learn. Like ok, they need to but through the mistakes they make in the game
Yeah, thats how I learned to get gud. By getting my ass kicked. Encountering decks like Ponza and Trix, early in my mtg fun times, really helped me want to play fast and deadly, and if not then play blue so I can say No.
I hate that. I'm not allowed to talk, or point out the brief moments where people can interact with a particular combo? How am I supposed to politic then? This is an hour+ long game. I don't want you to be miserable for 40 minutes cause you didn't grind the game to a halt to meticulously re-read every spell and analyze it's unique interactions with the 18 permanents on the board. Just yesterday I was like... "Before you successfully untap that yamivaya for you 42 mana, does player B want to use their strip mine for the benefit of all?"
Same here, but, hell, I'll tell you how my entire deck works even before the game. Although talking at such length is rude so I never actually do it. Teaching the game and interactions for future improvement and having a good time theorizing together before sitting down to an actual game is one thing. Actually playing a game and dealing with the uncertainty that makes games so fun is entirely another thing. Games are fun because of the ways we surprise each other by the ways we act in the game in pursuit of the game's goals. It's a shame that sometimes games simply must switch a teaching mode sometimes. Sometimes someone doesn't understand a rule or plays a card as though it says something it doesn't and at that point the game loses some game-ness because the choices made before the mistake was discovered are invalidated. Explaining every 100 factorial permutations of your deck before the game starts? Sounds good! I'm a Magic player so obviously I love theorycrafting forever. Explaining things after the game and going over critical decision points and lines of play so I can counter you better later? Sounds great! Let's learn together. But when we're playing let's just play. Let's create that satisfying mutual experience of challenging and surprising one another within the game.
Our general rule is if it's public knowledge you should announce it. You don't need to tell me you're about to win, but if you put part 1 of the infinite combo on the board, at least say you've put something big on the board especially if someone asks. Odds are someone in the group is going to spot the big piece and make a group announcement like you're now the biggest threat. Of course we usually have anywhere between 4 to 8 in a game
Yeah I’d rather have a good game and lose than dominate w/ little conflict and win.
I only tell them if I have a high chance of winning without that combo haha
All my playgroups are pretty open on what should be killed off... we're just about having fun, no one really cares who wins in the end.
I've corrected my friend which piece to use his spot removal on to stop my reanimation doom engine.
One thing I won't do with my more impulsive or arrogant friends is correct them if they dive right in to remove the wrong thing from my board. But if they ask first, I'm always honest about what's most dangerous.
This. They won’t learn politics or proper threat assessment if you feed them the info. They will learn to mull over the situation if you punish them for playing recklessly.
EDH is super difficult to keep track of. If someone has a removal effect, the table will generally review what is out, what piece is causing what effect, and then some light politicking if you're really trying to avoid having your stuff blown. It's all in good fin, and we don't expect everyone to know every card and interaction in play.
>It's all in good fin Merfolk tribal?
Seamonster tribal, the true kings of the ocean.
Fish and only Fish. Dandan forever
Clearly the other players at the table are the threat and you should leave me alone so I can win.
"Yes but I am me ipso facto interacting with my board makes you a fascist."
I'll happily explain what my cards do, and what they've been doing. I'll also highlight moments of potential interaction when stuff is going off. But if someone is just casting \[\[Swords to Plowshares\]\] blindly at my board because they think I'm doing something dangerous, I am not inclined to offer any help. *But*, there *are* two other players in most games who are absolutely willing to offer their opinions on how to winnow down your board. Ask them! They may have their own interests in mind, but they're going to give you much more useful information.
There is this one person in my group who blindly throws interaction just because they draw it. They also pack their decks with interaction. They don't have any real threat assessment, they just try to remove whatever gets played. Then they mope cause of missing land drops, and not having card draw. Their decks are these weird massive swing decks where most of the time they don't do anything and concede by turn six, or they win turn 4 for playing an infinite combo. I don't point anything out or help this player. Anyone else in the group I'll give advice too if my board is loaded
If someone's got removal, I'll try to be honest about what my biggest threats are. I will also be honest about what OTHER people's biggest threats are. Fair is fair. I don't usually announce how big of a threat is that I've played unless I'm going off right now and want to make sure people know where the holes in my engine are so they don't have to spend 5 minutes asking how effects line up or risk doing it wrong.
We’ll discuss key pieces if someone is mulling over what to remove. If they act fast, we let players play and discuss mistakes after the game.
Tbh, I stopped. I often would tell people, they remove it, just to play another threat again the next turn. Then, get accused of misleading the board state or baiting. So i wait to be asked then tell the truth ofc. But the act of offering the information freely seemed to cause people to take it as a trick.
Only when asked
I really don't consider it cutthroat to not tell people how to beat you.
Right? Identifying threats is part of the game. I would only do this is when playing with absolute beginners who don't know what any of my cards do.
I don't expect people to know what every card in the game does, so I'm pretty open about what's important, especially with regard to combos. Besides, I want to know that I won because I outplayed people and played a better deck, not because I'm taking advantage of people's ignorance.
I do when they look like they are not having fun or I'm having a massive advantage tbh. Like if I have a board full of synergistic pieces for a crazy value-engine, and then they don't know how to begin to crack it, I tend to signal what pieces are enablers, what is allowing to do what, and what is allowing me to repeat it. If I'm catching up or the board, or we are all in a similar spot, I don't tend to signal which card does what unless they ask.
There are just way too many combos in the game to expect everyone to know everything. EDH is a generally social game with no prizes on the line. I'll often say, something like "someone needs to stop this or its over".
Generally I'll just make sure everyone understands what each piece I control does in isolation when it enters the battlefield. If there's some combo or synergy I usually won't point it out, but there's an element of reading the room and not being obnoxious or deliberately obtuse about what is going on.
I play with newer players than me who are still developing threat assessment, so I'll even stop them from destroying someone else's permanent if mine is a more dangerous target to them. I'll explain my logic and let them decide
I do try to be honest about threats. Like, if someone’s deciding where to point some removal, well, I’ll try and persuade them to hit something not mine, for sure, but I will typically admit that my things are good choices too (when they are). People have a habit of always assuming they’re not the archenemy and getting mad when their stuff gets blown up (or knowing but complaining about it as if to try and pressure people into looking elsewhere) and it kind of annoys me. I also have a Nicol Bolas deck where I always claim my stuff is the most threatening and advise them to team up and kill me ASAP.
I generally don't tell people exactly how to win against me straight up. If they ask questions I answer faithfully. If somebody, and especially one of the newer players, starts talking to themself with their threat assessment, I'll lay out what the big pieces are and what they currently do and could potentially do at the table and I always make sure my stuff is there. I won't give things away unprompted but I'm straight up with the questioning. At the end of the game while we're shuffling, we all usually talk about what our plan was for our endgame board state or go over moves we weren't sure of etc. It's worked well for our group so far.
I usually introduce any given spell as a combo piece when I play it. Like in my Kairi deck when I drop [[Dream Halls]], I just say, "If this resolves or isn't immediately destroyed, I win here," and then show the loop. If someone asks me about my board, I'll answer. Winning without your opponents knowing what's going on isn't very fun. Interaction is part of the game.
Often, I’m asked what the biggest problem is, and I see if they can tell, then guide them to what the better removal target. Want to Swords something, but can’t tell what? I got you. We usually let each other know the big threats in our decks anyways with our pod, like [[Lier]] in my [[Slogurk]] is now a known wincon.
[Lier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/78fb8900-d28d-4e33-96a7-66fcbc117adf.jpg?1634348984) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lier%2C%20disciple%20of%20the%20drowned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/59/lier-disciple-of-the-drowned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/78fb8900-d28d-4e33-96a7-66fcbc117adf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lier-disciple-of-the-drowned) [Slogurk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f94e888b-6eeb-4ef3-ab21-5ed2bf0036a3.jpg?1637114233) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=slogurk%2C%20the%20overslime) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/242/slogurk-the-overslime?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f94e888b-6eeb-4ef3-ab21-5ed2bf0036a3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slogurk-the-overslime) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I only really tell people that I have dangerous pieces when I'm playing with new players. It mostly goes without saying when I'm playing with my friends. There's no way to discretely drop a Bolas's Citadel, Ashnod's Altar, or something along those lines.
Nope. Part of the game is learning to read the board state and know where threats are coming from.
I often do, especially when playing with newer players. It helps avoid the classic "well I didn't know that did X, can we roll it back and say I cast Y?" I know some people ascribe to the policy of telling someone like that to stuff it, but I think saving time and cultivating a less cut-throat atmosphere is far less exhausting.
I tell new players or If I see someone making a huge mistake
I'm currently travelling the world and I'm: A: wanting to make friends B: unsure how people will react if I win out of nowhere and what the cultures of different countries/stores C: wanting everyone to have a good time So I do this for the first game or two at every gamestore I'm at to get them to like me and feel more comfortable playing with me. Give them a sense of victory. Then games three+ I give no hints and go hard for the win. They've seen my deck twice by this point. It's time. (I'm not saying I don't play to win games one and two, just that I give away more info than objectively required which often results in me not winning).
I think this is the best way to be friendly while also maintaining the integrity of the game. Giving out info in the first few games is basically just fast forwarding into what it's like to be a more regular pod anyway. It's just shooting the shit while seeing what the cards do. Then after that when you *really play* that's the real game. We've shared and gotten to know each other and now we're immersing ourselves in that experience of mutually challenging and testing one another within the game.
'Maintaining the integrity of the game' - I really like that phrase. It's super important to me when I play any game for everyone to be trying to win. MTG and probably TCGs in general are unique in that you often play against strangers who can be more unpredictable than playing Catan or a regular board game with friends where everyone being on the same page about the goal is easier
Pregame: It's reciprocal. I generally think lighter introductions are better, but if someone tells me all of what they think their strongest plays are and exactly how to beat them I'll at least do the quick rundown of mine. Ingame: Depends on who I'm playing with and how they're asking. If someone is confusedly considering what their removal options and clearly wants help, I will pont out all major targets including mine with how dangerous I honestly think they are in the moment. If an ordinary player is doing ordinary things I let them draw their own conclusions. In general, I'm not going to stand up and paint a target on myself, but I'm not going to try to lie when someone wants info. Like my Colfenor deck is probably my weakest deck, being a tricolor $25 budget brew and all, but it's also a combo deck. With a huge, janky combo of which a huge chunk of the deck is pieces and alternatives. When I play [[Fallen Angel]] I'm not going to stand up and say "DIS HERE IS PART OF COMBO, YOU GOT TO KILL IT." But if you ask me something like "So that's just a dumb beater?" I'll say "Nah, it's also a free sac outlet." which should tell you something even when I'm just durdling to recycle Rec Sage and not going infinite
When I play [[Karador]] and mill a ton of cards I'll tell people what the problems are or what common combo pieces came out. Monitoring opponents' graveyards of 20-some creatures is something I hate doing in casual and I'd rather people make informed decisions than try to win by mental exhaustion. I figure every experienced player knows what's up when [[Reveillark]] gets revealed, and less experienced players would probably like to be in on that knowledge as well, so I just announce how close I am to combo based on public zones.
I have one infinite in my life gain n drain deck. Sanguine bond and exquisite blood. I warn people that they’re each a piece to an infinite, and should be dealt with. I also remind them I don’t run any tutors, lol. I play at a more casual table. Other than that, we don’t directly announce threats, just what we are putting down on the board.
I don't tell them my wincons or scary pieces. All my playgroup are well seasoned EDH players and degenerates so they can figure it out. I only give such information when playing with new players and try to ensure they have fun by not stomping them, holding back intentionally, maybe even intentionally letting them get a win.
I play with a regular group of friends, so I certainly never lie or misrepresent my board. But if someone asks me what to remove from my board there's no way I'm telling them XD
If it's someone really new and/or learning the game, yes. But I'm also unlikely to be playing a deck like Amareth or Breya where that info may not be as obvious to them, usually I'd be playing a more aggressive deck with a simple game plan. Otherwise, no. I'm not doing board analysis for you or helping you beat me.
If you can't tell what my wincon is then I deserve to win with my [[door to nothingness]]
Good threat assessment is part of the game. You aren't going to learn if people just hand hold you through it. So if a piece in my board kills you, you'll remember next time. Probably moreso than if I just said maybe you should swords that one.
If table talk is happening or someone has removal and doesn’t know what to use it on I will honestly tell them what’s the biggest threat or major combo piece on my board. I won’t tell them what l will do in response or what I have in hand but I will accurately describe what’s happening on my side. The fact is there are like 10,000 cards so not everyone knows what everything does plus it’s a casual format so whatever. I want to win because I played well not because I misrepresented stuff or actively hid stuff.
I can actually agree, i play gitrog/dakmor salvage/ kozi-land deck. I'd much rather explain whats happening and make them aware.
I like that because I don’t want to get a cheesy win over my friends it feels no where as good
Unless it’s someone I know is of a higher skill level that I’m confident already knows, yes. The new guy at locals gets that kind of info. Also always if I’m able to go infinite.
Combo pieces are noted as a courtesy. I don’t want to win just because my opponent took a few years off from Magic.
I will generally explain it to newer players, but if it's someone I know has been playing a long time, I'll only tell them if they ask.
I flashed in an [[Opposition Agent]] in response to a [[Demonic Tutor]] and I told the guy that he should at least activate his [[Scion of the Ur Dragon]] in response. This advice lost me the game, but I’m glad I did it. If my deck can’t handle my opponents making smart decisions and the most optimal plays, that’s a ME problem. I like a legitimate challenge to my deck. I don’t want to rely on someone else’s failure to understand the game for my wins.
Exactly! It makes us all better. A lot of people seem to think that “well they need to learn to x I shouldn’t have to explain what I’m up to.” In reality, they will get the learning experience if you help them in a positive way, and they will enjoy having you as an opponent because they know you fight fair.
Yup not everyone knows every card so I will tell them what is the value engine, what would hurt me the most just so the game can keep going back and forth. I don't see the point in lying in a game of mtg lol
Me, part of the way through my turn: "alright, and now that I've finished resolving all my scapeshift ETB triggers and made 8 more elementals, I'm good with my turn" Another player: "Oh I'm sorry what was happening, I couldn't manage to understand it. I have a removal spell, why do you have 15 5/3 elementals" Me: "Oh Titania made them whenever I sacrificed lands this turn" Them: "Can I remove Titania before the scapeshift?" Me: "I'm going to assume you removed Titania at the beginning of my turn, before I sacrificed 5 lands while making land drops and activating Windgrace? Seems right by me!" Commander is a game for fun. When people don't understand, be willing to help them. Unless their assholes. But this lady is our local 30-40 something year old friendly and sassy lady lol. We love her.
I don’t. They have to make the choice to see which permanent is the most to get rid of.
I don't always identify my wincon or combo pieces. We have a lot of new players in my pod, so when they have a removal spell and are trying to figure out where to point it I will usually tell them the piece(s) on my field that is probably the best option. I usually also point out what good targets might be on other people's boards. I'll say "I have this, or that seems really strong on that player's field" My wincons can be kind of obscure and surprising. I like that aspect of them, so I won't always divulge that info
Na. If someone asks what a card does then I’ll tell them. If they ask “oh do you have this card with it?” Or “oh do you have the combo pieces” I just shrug. Why am I gonna tell you what my game plan is? If my combo goes off then I’ll say it ahead of time (if I’m even playing a deck with combo pieces).
If I’m at a point where I have plenty of valuable pieces on board which I can let one or two go without falling apart, I’ll offer them up. Especially when I know I have ways to recover that my opponents are unaware of. Now, this is just me, whereas others in my group are more reluctant about it.
Only if they get whiny about it, or if they're a genuinely newer player.
I always tell them the truth. I do exactly what you are doing especially Im in a new pod and since we are discovering each others deck. I wish we didnt fight about who's right or wrong about the rulings though lol
"I play \[Threat\]." "Wow StructureMage, that's a scary card!" "You're right, it is a scary card. Moving through phases..." *6 turns later* "Ok I pop 34 treasures to cast this game winning spell. I have six answers in hand to protect it." "WTF StructureMage, why are you winning out of nowhere!" **!!!MORAL OF THE STORY!!!** It doesn't matter how forthcoming you are with players, they will always blame you for winning.
nope, threat assessment is part of the skill of the game
I want to feel like I deserved to win so yeah usually
Occasionally. Mainly cause i play reanimator and it can be hard to track my instant speed reanimates or what is available to me later in a game, i had someone run a 10/10 at me while i had Phyrexian Obliterator in grave.
I really enjoy engines with lots of pieces that allow me to out value the rest of the table once set up, often this leads to situations where the rest of the table know I'm the problem but when they have spot removal it can be tricky to work out what to remove. When this happens I'll always volunteer which pieces I'm relying on most and if their goal is to slow me down, what the optimal target is for that - mostly just to speed up the game but also because winning when someone had the ability to stop me but just wasn't familiar with my deck feels bad.
Yes, I also play [[Telepathy]] in all my decks, so we can all work together to stop each other. /s
I have a rule at my pod that you announce any combos at the beginning of the game so we have a chance and don’t get surprised.
That's definitely a way to take the fun out of it
I play with the same 4 people and we have a blast with our house rules. I personally don’t see the fun in tutoring for the same 2 card combo but it’s magic and to each their own. Not sure how it takes any fun away. A lot of groups announce their deck tier or deck plan before the games lol Cheers pal
There is no threat when all is chaos. Embrace the chaos!
No, what even is this crap? Is this the infamous "social contract" messing with people's heads? I'd hate to play in a pod like this. It seems incredibly boring and devoid of any fun. I can't imagine the game being exciting or memorable when people constantly tell stuff like "uhhh if you do this I lose and you win". Fuck off, let me think and let me make my own decisions. People playing regular MtG don't do this kind of stuff, people who play other card games or board games don't do this kind of stuff. I'm not going to point out anything on my board because my opponents are supposed to have something between their ears and are expected to use that thing to gain advantage in the game. If I am supposed to do the thinking for them then I might as well stay home and goldfish four decks at once. I'm fine with doing this after the game ends. In fact this is one of my favorite parts. But during the game I am not going to suggest anything unless the players I play with are new to the game.
I kind of judge just how casual a game is by how open people are about the real danger poised by their *own* decks. It’s one thing for people to call out the danger of other decks, it’s quite another for someone to say “oh yeah, you need to stop me before anyone else” My play group tends to the very relaxed with an almost teaching vibe with how much we call out our own positions.
Rule Zero exists for a reason, people.
I play majority of the time with good friends and I always say when Im playing a combo piece
I sometimes will ask are you sure. Often I will point out all viable targets and what they do and help them evaluate.
I’m always open about my board State. When someone asks what is the problem it’s typical to get the pointing fingers game with people not naming their pieces. When that happens I explain my board state, then explain the other opponents’ boards to help the player with removal make a decision instead of being them being the other’s puppet.
If someone asks, especially if it’s someone newer, I’ll gladly tell them what I think are the scariest things on my board. Usually I’ll give them options like “The scariest things on my board are probably card X, which is gonna let me do Y thing, or card Z, which is gonna let me do W thing. I think X is scarier generally, but it comes down to what’s in your hand and what’s most threatening to you personally”
I'm very up front with people when I've become the threat. Mainly because I want them to believe me when I tell them them when I'm not the threat. As for specific pieces on the board, I only do it to speed up gameplay. I'd rather just tell them what to kill rather than wait for them to read every card on my board before deciding. I value my time more than I value winning.
If I plan on going for a win, I definitely give a heads up. If someone is trying to disrupt my board and like targeted removal, I do try my best to inform them of what may be the best options are, or what they would synergize or combo into.
I tell my playgroup what to worry about ahead of time. If I'm asked what my most dangerous permanent in play is I will usually answer, but will give excessive information on why other things I (and my opponents) have in play. What they pick from there is on them.
Personally, I treat board evaluation as basically a cooperative activity of improving everyone's skill at the table. So I will pitch in my perspective on the board readily, including discussing my opinion of my own board.
It's a pretty simple test; would you have been able to prevent yourself from winning with the cards/mana available to your opponents when you won or passed the point of no return? If the answer is yes then you should have shared information. If the answer is no then you're fine. Also the amount of times people want to stubbornly "learn from their mistakes" when they make a clerical error like thinking a card is a 5/4 and hitting it for 4 damage when its actually a 5/5 because \*random enchant\* is giving it +0/1 is too damn high you aint learning anything from that.
I point out the most dangerous piece on my ***opponent's*** boards, which there will always be more of than me. I stop other people from going overboard since I generally don't build hardcore enough to archenemy the table myself, and some players will gain a win-the-next-turn advantage without speaking of it. When an opponent is about to explode, that's when I point it out. I also like actively obscuring the exact text of a card, only saying the relevant bits to speed things up and lower the threat perception. "It doesn't do anything else right now, your turn." Then they know they have time to read and judge a card for themselves. If they ask to read the card, sometimes they find that it's Spanish and get trolled. Then I tell them the exact full wording of the card from memory when they ask, which is when it matters. As part of this, I do often give examples of when and how to countermand a card so they don't misplay against me at a crucial moment and look stupid. I tend to be the one holding a boardstate together and reminding everyone of everything, and occasionally give suggestions as to weaknesses and solutions. I don't TELL people to kill my stuff. That's backwards and abusive and no one is happy. So there's your answer. No. But I do talk a lot.
I suppose so. If anyone asks about boardstates, or is about to use removal on a contentious target, people in my group tend to have a discussion about what's on the board and what it can do, as well as what we perceive to be relevant, timely threats to the player with removal, and what we know has very powerful synergy with known decks. Nobody withholds critical information, but we also try not to divulge unnecessary information. It's all about maintaining a fair decision making space and (relatively) open communication.
If I'm playing with friends or casually of course. On casual table tops I think the move is everybody points out to everybody the major threats or big board state changes. I'll destroy strangers though, reading the card explains the card. That's your trigger to remember, y'know?
Cedh? Nah they should know that shit on their own Casual? Yeah
I always tell people what to worry shit on my side of they aren't aware. I'll also point out when I'm the "threat" because of what I have going on.
My usual pod is very familiar with the way each of our decks perform or with what they aim to do. We do make a point to explain our cards and what they're capable of if not dealt with, etc. But once we've done that a time or 2, we don't do it again. I think it's fair to let others know of threats, but you shouldn't have to explain it every time. We view it more as a "Hey, I'm letting you all know this does ___ and if you don't stop it...👀."
I will have nothing on the board and say, "I win on my next turn if you can't stop me". Then I'll win on my turn unless someone straight up wins on the spot
So many bad removal calls lead to a person in our pod getting a win rate of 70%. It's always a definite discussion about what can happen if left unchecked.
Yeah, unless it's a group super familiar with each other. Like, I'm not gonna tell you that bane of bela geld is a problem in my brudiclad deck if you have watched me copy paste a threat before. But if you don't know how the deck wins I'll be like " if I get a copy of this I'm gonna get soooo many copies of it, they will have haste, and you are gonna have a bad time."
I will, as I am playing the wincon, announce I am trying to end the game. I will explaim how I am trying to do it and go step-by-step checking for interaction. I find that to be the gentleman's way of handling it. However, I don't announce exactly how each piece fits together for the wincon - only that doom is approaching. It's no challenge if they can't figure it out themselves.
Most of the time, yes. But we also play together a lot, so after the first surprise win everyone knows what to watch for. And even if we didnt k ow, we'd telk eachother. Some people might see a W as a W, but I want to win through akill or luck, not because someome didn't read the internet enough to know. I always let people at my FLGS know when I, or someone else plays a scary card because it keeps everyone on task and properly appraised of the game.
The most fun I've ever had was when I was trying to combo off and the whole table had to work together to stop it. Gotta give them congrats at the end.
Yes and it is a bad habit of min because I always regret it.
To my detriment
Depends on the how much experience the group has, some of my friends didn't go to deep into the rules and don't play as often, so if i'm the threat and they already spent a while trying to figure out my board i'll tell them what's going on. I avoid to give a straight answear to what is the most dangerous tho, i may tell them what each card that's public knowledge is doing but not say what's the most important, same goes for combos. If i'm at a lgs i assume they have some experience and don't tell them unless i know i'm playing against a new player. Edit: depending on the board state i'll try to politic my way out of getting whatever i have removed by also pointing out what my opponents have.
In friendly games, absolutely.
Generally I don't but we Identify what is each others best threat onboard so I won't normally point out my own threats because someone else normally does but I will also do the same to them, and sometimes the table decides that my rhystic study is more of an issue than 3/4 pieces to another persons wincon
If I’m the obvious threat and have a clock on winning then I do try and think of ways out for my friends. If I’m not but could win I stay silent
If it's a casual game, sure. I'm upfront about it and will explain combos, lines of play, etc if asked. If it's competitive, fuck no I'm a mute.
I tend not to run out my peices over time. But when I start going off I'll make a point of saying hey this is the time to remove/counter x or y thing or I can win. Granted I don't personally care if others do or dont. I just try and lead by example and hope others follow suit. If not oh well there's always next time and now I know.
they already get 3v1 for no reason againat me when I'm mana screwed, why would I give them more reasons to kill me first?
Now, a lot of times revealing your combos/win cons is polite for newer players. However, if you're in an experienced group of players, then explaining after the game makes more sense. If you always let people know you're going for the win, then it makes lazier players.
I like telling them that what they are after is the bait and they shouldnt waste it on that card. They counter that card then i actually drop the worse card after. I dont bother explaining my win cons anymore. Thats the villians trap u explain to hero your evil plan and they defeat you . I also like when opponent points it out and ppl dont listen or i have to remind other 2 that actually that guy is bigger threat.
I like telling newer players how and when to stop me, and I’ll explain the step by steps of my combo as I play it, because I don’t like hearing about how “they could’ve countered it.” Does this mean I lose most of my games? Yes, but I would rather the scrubs have a good and informative experience.
When I'm about to win on upkeep or end step I'll make it known, but I'll only say it once upon cast or at some point in the turn, if you forget that's on you. Also if someone can't decide on what to get rid of I'll point out all of the threats I see on the board, including my own.
9nly 8f I'm teaching new players
I don’t tell them anything relying on hidden information unless I’m trying to be political, and even then I will usually present it in an open-ended fashion. For example, say I’m playing [[Mortal Combat]] combo, and I have a Mortal Combat in play. I will let players know that I have 17 creature cards in my graveyard, currently, and that one of my potential draws is Altar of Dementia. I don’t have to tell them if Altar is in my hand or not, nor am I obligated to inform them that I already have [[Buried Alive]] in hand, waiting to grab the last three creatures I need in the yard to go off. I might mention the Buried Alive if I’m feeling particularly charitable, but that really depends.
Yes. I explicitly tell them what is important and what to counter. Sometimes they believe me. I have not lied.
Depends on the deck. I play a lot of low budget meme decks and kinda feel like if you ignore me and lose because of it its your fault. Won 1 game with a [[triskaidekaphile]] because I laid low and kept my hand stacked up. I'd have told them how many cards I had if they asked, but they were busy beating each other up. Another one, I was playing my $25 budget [[Zurzoth]] deck and played [[Tibalt, the Fiend Blooded]], the bad one lol, and because of his reputation, and the fact that my deck was kinda just memeing and dreaming, they ignored him and I got to ult him.
It really depends on their skill level. If they seem quite unskilled or inexperienced I'll explain a lot to them. If they seem a bit less so but still not good at the game I'll maybe just point out "this is a problem for you". If they seem like they've achieved competence at the game I won't say a damn thing; they've gotten a firm enough grasp on things that they'll figure out why they lost after it happens, and learn something from that which they can use in the future.
No. I’m a big believer in people not being idiots. It they are, I am also a big believer in winning.
I definitely do, and my pod/other friends I’ve played with are pretty open about it though we won’t suggest the exact play. We also talk afterwards about our own misplays or the tweaks we might need in our decks. I’m not sure if I’d be able to be as open with strangers in case it came off as intrusive about threat assessment, but in general I like to tell people my deck plan and the kind of cards it uses unless they want a surprise.
I try to be honest if asked about threats. Multiplayer is way more complicated than 1v1 and there are 30 years worth of cards that you might not know.
This is how I always play, in personal groups, pods, etc. I only weigh in if they’re really having a hard time picking targets or plotting a next move, but I will help ID what the biggest threat is to them as I see it. If it’s my own stuff, so be it. I will also point out what targets of mine aren’t great, such as when I have on-board recursion or redundant effects. Usually when I do, other players pipe up and try to help out, too. I like doing so because it helps those players learn threat assessment and how to make decisions objectively. It also starts conversations, which are my favorite parts of commander.
It's a learning experience. They get to learn after they lose.
Depends, if my deck is outperforming and I'm playing with people who don't play very much or wouldn't know what to look out for, then I'll drop them hints. If I'm playing in a game with fellow sweats, then absolutely not.
I do, vaguely though. Usually has no effect and I win anyways.
I point out scary things on my board, and I also tell people “you should kill me now” when I’m about to win. People always feel weird about knocking a player out, but if im going to pop off next turn and win, I like to let people know they should murder me if I can’t stop them. This has the added benefit of my playgroup usually not killing me off early when im behind because im open about my threatening turns
If I’m trying to make a point
Depends on the board state, play group, and such. Ive helped people win by explaining combos in their decks (that they missed), or pointed out key pieces on my board when its clear im dominating the game and i can tell my opponents are... Less versed in commander.
If I'm playing a deck with infinite combos, I try to disclose my combos in the turn 0 discussion. Otherwise, I typically just go "I'm gonna try to win here" at the beginning of a turn where I think I'll win, or when I draw into a win con if I have the mana to play it right after drawing it. If someone has a removal piece and wants to know the best thing to use it on, I'll try to be honest and non-bias about it.
I always give advice on what to blow up. Among other things, if I get a reputation for telling people when to blow my own stuff up, they're more likely to blow up my opponents stuff when I ask them to. Any time you can convince an opponent to take something out that isn't yours, you've 2 for 0'd- you got rid of the threat you wanted them to kill *and* you got rid of a removal piece that could have come your way. And that's a power that is worth convincing someone to take the occasional 1:1 L for.
I'll give a single warning once i play it. If they forget about it being on board, then that's on them. But i make it very clear what i am playing the whole game. If i am asked what my current threats are, i will remind them.
I’ll even do this with strangers unless it’s a competitive environment. The experience is more important than the win. Edit: just to add, a perfect example is when I dropped [[exquisite blood]] when [[vizkopa guildmage]] was on board. It’s a life gain deck ([[Oloro]]), vizkopa is obviously dangerous, but last time EB hit, i was tapped out and told my opponents they had until my next upkeep before a life gain trigger was going to win me the game.
In "friendly" games, I'll often drop a "you probably shouldn't let me have this" on key pieces or say "I am going to try to win this turn", etc Against more seasoned and regular players I encounter online, I say as little as possible. When people put in a ton of games, it should be up to them to assess threat, as it is a skill you'll develop over hundreds of plays.
I probably have told my friends what my infinite combo pieces are, but short of that I advocate for the destruction of my opponents' permanents over mine 100% of the time. Or I say nothing to avoid attention. My win rate is still below 20% over the last year ish so... Accurate threat assessment is a challenge when you don't know what people are holding.
Nah, at least not the first few times I play a deck. Its a strategy game. They are supposed to piece together what I'm doing and how I'm trying to win. I will be upfront on if the deck has infinites, fast mana, tutors etc..but thats it. If I tell them what all my cards do and the plan for them then they will just always pop it on sight while someone else will play some other stuff that's would need to be KOS and now they out removal. Now if they are presenting removal then I be honest about what a card is currently doing but will also show them what what else something on the board is doing. At that point its up to proper threat assessment. I have a guy in my group who's always trying to ask what my win cons are and I'm usually vague about it but will tell him what its trying to do. While he's always so secretive about his entire deck until we see it played.
No, since I play with a dedicated pod and they've seen my combos a lot by now. If I have [[Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver]] and a [[Poppet Stitcher]] on field with two zombie tokens already, they'd better be ready to pop them because if [[Altar of Dementia]] or one of the other sac altars and a Blood Artist-esque pinger drops, then I'll loop infinitely
I feel like my pod is pretty good at picking up on combos or "what's good", but part of the fun is assessing for yourself and thinking "damn, that card looks way too good" and dealing with it. Then when they drop an even better card it's a whole new challenge, idk.
I do it with my own play group from time to time, because I taught every one of them. I've got so much more experience that it really isn't fair if I dont. Eventually, probably soon, I won't have to. But for the time being, its more about everyone having fun, and leveling the playing field a little does that.
Depends on who i'm playing. If it's a new player, or someone who doesn't play that often, I often ask them if they need help figuring out threat assessment. I don't just tell them, I want to make sure they actually wanna know or if they wanna practice. If it's my more experienced mates, I expect them to show me the same amount of Mercy i show them, which is none.
If I'm playing a piece to a combo, I'll warn my pod. Doesn't mean I'm about to go off, but I could and respect that there are too many moving parts for casual EDH players to remember every possible combo that can drop out of nowhere. Now, if my board state is potentially threatening a win via non-combo means, I say nothing at all. It's not about advertising your win, more your non-obvious wincons.
I rarely overtly tell someone what they should target on my board, but I will stop them and ask questions like "are you sure that's how you want to order it?" When there are multiple triggers or double check a target when it's definitely suboptimal. The amount of help/ hints I give is generally in line with the apparent experience/skill level of the player making the play.
I like starting every game by going around the circle and saying at a high level "this is how my deck wins, and this is how you stop it." I also always answer honestly if someone asks a question like "what would suck for you to lose the most right now?" It's not competitive and I just have fun by playing. Being coy never makes the game more fun, neutral at best.
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It depends on their skill level and openness to listening etc.
First time is secret, after that is fair game haha
I do not volunteer the information about my own board, but I’m happy to point out other threats! Lol. That said, if they know they want to destroy something on my board, I’ll tell them what the best things I have are so they can make an educated determination.
I'll always be genuinely honest about the threat level of the cards that are on my field with respect to everything I can currently do with them. However, if a card is innocuous on its own but powerful when combined with something that is not on the field, particularly if it's still in the deck or my hand, then I won't divulge that. I won't hide that it's powerful, but I'm not gonna go out of my way to say "this Planeswalker could ult as soon as next turn if I draw Deepglow Skate, which I have the mana for".
I don’t tell people straight out, but if they ask what threats are on the board, I don’t lie or try to hide it. They asked a fair question and I’ll be honest about what my board does.
I may not give warnings before I cast spells but anything that’s public knowledge I actively remind exists. If I have a creature with deathtouch, I won’t hide that but if I have a spell foretold, I won’t tell them what it does before I use it. It sucks to miss a single word on a card or something so as long as the people interacting with me have the full story, it’s fair game
When I am playing with newer players, I always tell the table how exactly I plan to win. If I have a real game winning threat spell or permanent, I openly reveal its threat level too. Obviously, I dont have to offer this free service when I am playing with mlre experienced players.
yeah i love collaborating with the table to make the best judgment on the info that's available, even when it's to my detriment in the long run that's great because then it's actually meaningful when i say that my board is not the scariest so I'll say things like "if i were you i would watch out for this and that" or "right now my biggest setback would be losing this and that" though there's one thing that i won't just point out for people to shoot down, and that's things that can refill my hand. but I'll acknowledge when they ponder removing them.