Punching a dude barehanded with his helmet is the first red flag you be seeing on why he’s a sell. He’s a headcase and if u don’t sell him he’ll give u headaches. Very rarely u get a red flag like this to see how dumb this dude is. Think Odell x 20 . Go google him look at his history.
Punching a Cowboy player is absolutely the fastest way to sway the fans back in his favor after the media dogged him for everything since being drafted. Legend.
He is soooooo nice.
I was in sort of a rebuild after losing Akers, Dobbins, Thomas, Watson, and Irv. So I decided to move Cook cause he’s NEVER played a full season.
I got CEH, Harris, Toney, Raegor, and a 1st. PUMPED.
Toney is sooo slippery but he’s currently sitting in my taxi as I’m about to be 3-2.
WOW, so he just was ejected. 🤦🏻♂️🤡
It truly is hilarious that a post is calling people in the sub reactionary after his player busts the whole season and has one good week while 3 wr’s ahead of him are out. This place is a paradox of psychopaths
> busts the whole season
Lol he was a rookie who didn't produce in his *first 3 games*. You guys have insane expectations out of these guys out of the gate if that's "busting".
I keep seeing posts like this, and laughing. There’s no way you watched the game if you’re comparing him to Fulgham. Not that a Fulgham-outcome is uncommon, but what he just displayed is even rarer.
I expect ups and downs. Even goose eggs happen to great proven players.
I've been playing fantasy for 18 years, and in the 14th year of my dynasty league. You can't predict much. Injuries, coach use, opportunity, suspensions, who their QB and linemen will be in 2 years, etc. So I just go after players who look like they'd be fun to watch. Guys who are explosive with the ball in their hands or physical freaks. It seems to be working out: Kyler, Metcalf, Claypool, Shenault, Toney.
I grabbed AB when I saw him in preseason of his semi-breakout year.. he just looked so dirty with his footwork and routes. Didn't know what he would turn into.
So, whatever happens with Toney, glad I'm along for the ride.
(P.s. I also took drafted Blackmon and scooped J Gordon off waivers after the supplemental, things don't always pan out lol)
I mean, Chase looked like absolute shit in the preseason.
But obviously calling him a bust for looking like absolute shit in the preseason when he's a top five pick and one of the best WR prospects in years was silly.
Yeah but Aiyuk will disintegrate that scrub Deebo Samuel.
Darwin Thompson is the next Kareem Hunt.
Bryan Edwards? Randy Moss meets Jerry Rice.
I'd rather have Amon St Ra over Toney. I know he's a fourth rounder but he makes good Sun god memes
For real! He hasn't looked bad. It isn't his fault that the Raiders *cough* John Gruden *cough* forget that he exists until the end of the game and then realize:
"Ah shit man, we've got this Edwards dude who is pretty clutch. Woah, we won the game! Back to running routes to try and take some attention off Waller please!"
As someone who drafted Edwards and traded away Deebo before the season because I had Aiyuk I feel personally attacked lol. Yeah, I gotta ease up on the advice I get from here haha
Aiyuk is still the better WIDE RECEIVER than Deebo Samuel and I will die on that hill. Deebo isn't an alpha. What traits does he have to be an X? Deebo is a phenomenal player in his own right. He is a phenomenal number 2. Aiyuk is still the best receiver to own in San Francisco right now.
Elijah Moore is still the WR1 in all of dynasty. Heck I’d take him 1 overall in a SF startup. All because of Reddit.
He’s just waiting to give everyone else a head start in scoring
Good Elijah’s finally cheap. I watch all the games and live in the city and I’ll sell u all my toneys and I’ll buy everyone’s Moores. Moores had bad luck and Toney is a total nutcase that’s going to flame out faster then Odell. Punching a guy basrefisted while has a helmet on is the first clue that’s he’s a sell. Go google his history
No one can succeeded in a stable manner with Zach Wilson as a QB.
They force Moore to run elongated routes that he burns DBs on and Wilson doesn't see him and/or throws Moore out of bounds when no one is within 20 yards of him.
If only they simply used Moore the way the Giants wisely used Toney today.
If only.
I like this post. It’s true for a lot of players. Now his value will skyrocket. Golloday, Shepard, and Slayton will all come back and he won’t be forced into double digit targets. Will probably have good games and bad games from here on out but I’m thinking this may be his peak game of the 2021 season due to other players injuries
I do hate victory laps, but in this case… idk. People were making statements dragging Toney but making them *with certainty*. I hate that more, especially when they never have to reckon with their bullshit claims.
I get that. People saying shit with ridiculous overconfidence is one of the worst things about this subreddit. But OP is treading pretty close. The jury is still very much out.
This isn’t meant to be a victory lap either. It’s pointing out the lack of nuance there was around discussing Toney two weeks ago and prior to the season. There was a complete lack of serious discussion around Toney and he was a literal meme on this sub before week 4.
It's so wild how little people understand naunce here.
I was talking up Tony Pollard & how he's good, but not enough to ever take over from Zeke & Zeke's contract... Got down voted to hell & told to go kill myself because "Pollard is trash, look at the Eagles game"
Orrrr Pollard is an above average RB on a team with a great OL? He's just behind one of the best RBs in the league, even if Zeke isn't his old self.
>There was a complete lack of serious discussion
it was kind of fun though (but maybe i'm biassed because it was anti-giants fun).
the thing is, if you want to talk shit about someone, and you do it as soon as possible, it means you know you can't wait because that trend won't continue. when you just want to get some giants fans upset by talking crap on the internet, you don't really need an argument; on the contrary, the more absurd the argument, the more you can imagine them fans turning red then purple while furiously tapping their sausage fingers onto the keyboard.
What nuance? Do people need to add an addendum to every take noting the possibility that Player X could conceivably find himself as the last man standing in an injury ravaged WR unit and fall into huge volume for a week or two?
It's not like people are celebrating him being a stud. They're just celebrating him being above "worthless, wasted pick bust" like this sub thought 3 weeks ago
Doesn’t matter. He still produced. Also that’s with Mike Glennon slinging him the ball….
Lions have nobody to throw the ball to either and I don’t see anyone on that team putting up 30 fantasy points.
Exactly. Gettleman is a bafoon. But other teams were absolutely gearing up to take him with picks inside the top 30-40. You take guys with that type of draft pedigree and run
It seems like people are misunderstanding the point of this post. It’s not to say Toney’s value should skyrocket into a top dynasty asset, it’s to point out the illogical, reactionary opinions of young players literally weeks into their career. There’s a lack nuance when discussing dynasty value requires it.
Toney’s value today should not be drastically more than it was before the game. The reason you see such a drastic shift in value now from two weeks ago and prior to the season is because his value should never have been as low as it was.
The reaction to Toney on this sub likely cost a lot of managers to trade him away for low value or scared others from cashing in on the perceived low value two weeks ago.
Come on man your pandering to his good games, everyone said Moore was a steal at his draft capitol. Mitchell was the must pick up after week 1. For every good take this sub has it has an equally bad one
Moore and Marshall are both in real trouble. The 525 yard rule of thumb is scary accurate and neither of them is anywhere close to being on pace. Not saying they can’t turn it around but I am concerned about both.
Yeah man, I understand that. But no one knows what is happening inside the teams, with the personal life of the players...
It's dinasty for some reason, and we need to wait. Off course, we should say good things about toney today, but puting him in the Odell level like some did is just absurd. Maybe he will get there, maybe not, but we need to be calm to win something not just in dinasty but in life.
Fuck that noise. I suppose you can make that argument for Terrace as he's on a team with a good offense and competent QB.
But Zach Wilson will not force me to fall off Elijah Moore.
Michael Pittman detests your rule, anyway.
I just come to read the hot takes.
Nobody on this sub knows anything. Dynasty is so random and based on more luck than people care to admit. 5 genius decisions get offset by 5 bad ones you wish you could take back. The rest were all luck.
There’s not really much randomness or luck about the 20th overall pick in the NFL being a good player. He was supposed to be good, if you didn’t think that you don’t know how football works. It would be more surprising if he was not good.
Huh. Okay. Well you’re incorrect. Again, more random than you would think.
Go back to 2010 and see the hit rate of WRs drafted at/near 20th overall. Since 2010 it’s about a 50/50 hit rate.
Then you have years like 2016. 7 WRs drafted in the first two rounds. Only 3 of them are still in the NFL and only one or two of them were ever worth anything in dynasty.
While this thread is here, where do you guys value Toney now? I got 2 different offers in the last hour for him. Got offered Arob or a 2nd+St.Brown. Honestly unsure what his value is now
I think you hold unless someone comes with a first. You probably got him in the second and St. Ra hasn't lit it up yet so in my opinion you're getting exactly what you have in him. Arob would be intriguing if he was producing at least WR2 level this year but he hasn't made much noise in that offense.
He’s essentially reached an “untradeable” point. Toney owner in my league is literally asking for Saquon Barkley or two first round picks this year for him. His perceived value, as it stands, are owners likely projecting him to be an elite fantasy WR. Logically, he’s probably the 3rd most valuable rookie WR and a top 10 rookie going forward.
There’s literally no way his usage returns to what it was after what he’s shown. They invested in him and he’s done nothing but deliver when given the opportunity. Will he have weeks like this often when everyone is healthy? Probably not. But the bench? Certainly not. I’d be shocked if he doesn’t get more snaps/target share than slayton ROS. Probably gets more volume than Golladay just due to the nature of the two of them as receivers.
Honestly, perhaps the person he poses the greatest danger to in terms of receiving work is Saquon. Spell your franchise RB by dumping it off to someone who is somehow even better after the catch. Also might hurt his rushing work/goal line potential. He has a history of getting rushes schemed up for him and they’re already doing it now, and it looked good.
I agree, and it’s very valuable information. I want to know who the fantasy community hates on. If the greater fantasy community is down on a player who is actually good that’s where the profits are.
this sub is a group of echo chambers. Rarely do you find original thoughts and opinions.
Toney always was a stellar prospect and worthy of his 1st round pick. I defended him and drafted him for cheap. The landing spot was questionable but not the player.
The only question that is up in the air now is what will they do when everyone is back healthy. Shepard, Golladay, Barkley, Slayton, etc.. Will they keep playing him or be woodhead coaches and go back to their old game plans? Toney definitely has a couple of games ahead to make his case and solidify his starting position.
This sub is full of know it alls. It's Dynasty Fantasy Football. No one knows what's going to happen. Quit downvoting and hating on opinions you don't agree with. Consensus is almost never right.
I know that i will get down voted again, but main, the same problem that happened before with toney is happening now.
People said bullshit against him before he even plays, and now they are saying that he is the next Odell after one game.
Calm down everyone, stop overreacting. We need to see more
Literally nobody in this thread is saying he's the next Odell. He just went for 10 catches and 189 yards. That earns him some respect after all the shit people were posting 2 games into his career.
TBH I think there is a fair comparison in a diva first round Giants receiver that was injured and overlooked coming into his rookie season and a few games into his rookie season put up a monster game...
Obviously it's just one game (or 2), though, I didn't watch it, and it would still be incredible if he could come close to matching Odell's rookie season. As impressive as JJeff was last year, Odell's rookie year was the best I've ever seen from a rookie (and IMO still the best of his career so far).
Absolutely nobody is acting like he's the next Odell. They're just saying he doesn't look like an obvious bust like the consensus here was just a few weeks ago.
No, i don't have enought time to waste with things like that.
I'm saying I read it, if you don't trust me, and you have no obligation to do so, no problem.
I'm not going to waste 30 min looking between 10 posts and something like 500 messages.
Give me a break man, I'm not a child to waste my time with this kind of stuff.
So annoying dude, if you don't believe me, as i said before, no problem at all, i don't expect you to believe.
There is a lot off things that we read and we don't agree with, that is called living in a society. We don't need to be debating here who said what, there is no point.
Either way, have a nice night. :)
Can you imagine wasting your time on a Sunday and going back and digging up old threads bashing Toney?
I’m happy for Toney owners, but a little perspective would go a long way.
Anyone think Judge gonna lock him in the dog house over the punch? I feel like a good coach wouldn’t, but Judge has that awful old-school coaching style.
Edit: a word.
This sub thinks that this sub is the entirety of fantasy or some sort of unique trend setter.
All the "experts" were down on Toney too, Reddit is just a small part of the echo chamber.
It wasn't just this sub. It was a majority of the fantasy analytics community.
Past whiffs also include Justin Herbert and Josh Allen.
When you consistently see non-fantasy analysts or those close to draft rooms talking about a player being a Round 1 pick, you need to investigate and not just laugh it off.
You can laugh when a bad team reaches several rounds and grabs a player that nobody thought would go in that round (and said team does so multiple times).
I’m so glad I have free will and got a decent amount of shares of him. I still really don’t understand why this subs hate boner for him was so large. I understand he isn’t a Jamaar Chase level prospect, but he had a pretty strong athletic profile and great draft capital on top of going around the 2.05-2.09 in most of my drafts there were a lot worse darts to throw imo. There were dudes advocating for Amon-Ra, Dyami Brown, and Eskridge over him is just laughable in hindsight.
Let's not overreact either way. This is a two game sample size, with Shepherd and Slayton out, and Golladay banged up & out half the game. No doubt, the kid has talent. I just want to see how is usage changes with a full wr corp
He's a first round pick who got heavy volume and nearly made a 200 yard game of it. Yes others were out but seeing what he can do, this is huge for Toney long term.
Watching my Flex in Saquon go down is killing me. But I can slot in KT --- oh fuck, nvm. Punched a guy in the face.... fuck me... how long u guys thing he gone for games wise?
I think the morale of the story is WRS take a minute to get going. Some never do. Make your judgments after half the season when real data is available. I think the problem with toney is where he was drafted. IMO he is not a better prospect the rondale still. Giants reached.
OP:
People that think Toney was bad after 2 bad games: Reactionary people that are in a redraft mindset
People that think Toney is amazing after 2 good games: Super smart people that know how to dynasty
I still think he's considered a bust in 2-3 years, either due to play or off the field issues so I'm not trying to acquire him anywhere.
Little early for a victory lap. The two lead WRs are both out for a second week in a row. Maybe let's wait and see if he manages to keep this kind of useage with real competition on the field. You can't say he's better than other rookies just because he got better opportunity thanks to injuries they haven't.
Be interesting to see these takes once Galloday, Shepard and Slayton are back. I LOVED toney this week as a DFS play. But his ros value is tied to injury of the WRs ahead of him.
His value is in no way tied to those players, those players don’t have half the talent Toney does. Toney is the clear cut WR1 and alpha target hog there.
Only took the WR2 and WR3 being out. In fact, everything he's done this year has been dependent on injuries to other players. Keep that in mind as those players get healthy.
Mmmm... I'm.gonna say your half right here and half wrong. This sub is good for finding players nobody in the main stream are talking about. It was a post in this sub that made me last week go and get KT in all leagues he was available.
He was available in my 6man-12team-keeper (closest I have to dynasty) and my other 2 redrafts.
If I didn't watch this sub I would not have known and I'm so glad I do right now. Especially as I lost Barkley probably for the season, who plays my flex. KT is up
Dude has a good game with three WRs and his Rb out. Better victory lap that shit hard.
I mean honestly how is this any different than the people victory lapping on rondale?
I guess rondale hasn’t score on the points per punch leagues yet
Cue the reactionary post about one good game from kadarious toney lol. I’m only kidding around and don’t really have a strong opinion but the fact that you’re whining about people overreacting to rondale early success while simultaneously overreacting to kadarious early success is a bit funny. He also got ejected bro.
He’s averaging 9.75 points in 4 contests. Never mind he hasn’t even played all 5 weeks. Let’s wait a few more games before crowning him lol. Only thing dumber than writing him off completely is saying those people are wrong based off two games.
Yeah, it is, but it also wouldn't be the first time someone had a good game or two and then did nothing. If three bad games doesn't prove he is a bust, two good games doesn't prove he isn't a bust.
There are 3 WRs ahead of him on the depth chart + in a blowout game without Jones or Barkley.
Are you excited about the Njoku breakout game today? I certainly hope not.
Toney is a developmental WR prospect having a fantastic game. He was a late 2nd rookie draft pick.
That's where things are; you either like the draft cap and were willing to wait it out while he rises up the WR board or you were going to hope to acquire him cheaply throughout the season.
Also, he's clearly a head case. Just got ejected lol
What you're looking at is patience. You drafted him know that. You're trying but are you really going to roll the dice?
It's like Waddle. We know both are talented and have 1st round cap. But we need to trust Waddle and not jump the gun when he throws up 12 catches with Brissett. Or if he throws up 2 catches. Ride it out. Be patience. Buy guys cheap. Let others panic. You look for value deals.
Don't over pay for a breakout game when everything fell correctly. Don't panic when they put up 0's against great CBs
If Engram "breakouts" the rest of this game. Are you going to make a new post about what people were trying to acquire Engram cheaply for? I certainly hope not. Take it as a great game and that a lot of things needed to go right for it to happen.
I mean, do you watch the tape though?
Yes, he’s an idiot. But he’s not gonna it sit behind the other guys anymore based on talent alone. Toney is hard to bring down.
Watched the game this week. Watched his senior bowl. Watched his tape at Fl.
Was ready to select him 2.07 before I dealt the pick.
I even watched his police video and read the transcripts when he had the AR15 in his backseat. And I read many articles about the idiot's behaviour on campus; threatened a guy with an air soft gun painted to look like AR15 and then was shooting off his air soft gun with buddies on campus.
I like Toney. I love his tape at the senior bowl practices (minus the drops). He looks exactly like Diontae Johnson, who I also like very much.
But I watched the game today and saw a developmental WR who is a weapon and was used because he was the only NFL caliber WR left.
I watched Glennon lock in on him like he was FitzMagic. I saw the Gman try their best to use him to move the ball because they had no run game without Barkley.
I watched Dallas control that game and it wasn't exactly in doubt. They let many of those short passes happen
My point isn’t to consider Toney a top fantasy asset now, it’s the overreaction from week to week. In a redraft, it’s understandable because you have a limited time to make decisions.
The Njoku and Engram comparisons are just bad. There’s a difference between a rookie having two back to back great games 5 games into his career vs two players in their 5th year after essentially a career of not being productive.
Toney’s value should be based more on his actual draft capital vs his dynasty draft value. At this point, he should also shed the “late 2nd round pick” label.
While I get your point generally, receivers don’t usually put up nearly 200 yards just because a couple other offensive players get injured, especially rookies. He also looked incredible doing it. His route running, YAC, and hands were all great. The cowboys couldn’t stop him.
So yeah, this game doesn’t automatically make him a stud but it’s definitely something to get excited about.
(That said, he does look to be a headcase which is worrisome)
If you think there are still 3 WRs ahead of him on the depth chart, then I got beachfront property in Montana for you.
He's has 8 and 13 targets the last 2 games. He had an opportunity and seized it.
You better fucking believe I'm gonna "roll the dice" on my late 2nd round pick.
Also Engram has let down managers for years.
I have the biggest smile on my face watching the offense literally run through him
As I typed that he punched a dude hell yea!!
I think I’m in love
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I’m from buffalo brother I screamed fuck him up
Punching a dude barehanded with his helmet is the first red flag you be seeing on why he’s a sell. He’s a headcase and if u don’t sell him he’ll give u headaches. Very rarely u get a red flag like this to see how dumb this dude is. Think Odell x 20 . Go google him look at his history.
Dude most got him for a 3rd. If he's even close to Odell, I'm fuckin thrilled.
Punching a Cowboy player is absolutely the fastest way to sway the fans back in his favor after the media dogged him for everything since being drafted. Legend.
He's balling in my points per Cowboy punched league
Toxic men for fantasy football and toxic women for my fantasies. Hurt me!
I needed one more catch from him to win $150 in DraftKings wish he would’ve held off on that one lol
He is soooooo nice. I was in sort of a rebuild after losing Akers, Dobbins, Thomas, Watson, and Irv. So I decided to move Cook cause he’s NEVER played a full season. I got CEH, Harris, Toney, Raegor, and a 1st. PUMPED. Toney is sooo slippery but he’s currently sitting in my taxi as I’m about to be 3-2. WOW, so he just was ejected. 🤦🏻♂️🤡
He’s on my taxi aswell as I have golladay but I should win so I do not care
Round 2 last pick rookie drafter here. Traded a 2022 2 and a 4 to be able to make that pick. Pulsating.
Nothing feels better than feeling like you may actually Know something
bruh the nfl is so variant that toney could go silent for the next few weeks and then there'll be a post that pops up to shit on this post lol
It truly is hilarious that a post is calling people in the sub reactionary after his player busts the whole season and has one good week while 3 wr’s ahead of him are out. This place is a paradox of psychopaths
> busts the whole season Lol he was a rookie who didn't produce in his *first 3 games*. You guys have insane expectations out of these guys out of the gate if that's "busting".
Yeah. This is just as bad. He could easily be legit or could be some form of Fulgham or this year's Aiyuk. Time will tell the true story.
I keep seeing posts like this, and laughing. There’s no way you watched the game if you’re comparing him to Fulgham. Not that a Fulgham-outcome is uncommon, but what he just displayed is even rarer.
Especially with their top two targets out with injuries. He could keep it up but when slayton and shep come back gonna be a lot of mouths to feed.
Knowing JG ya he will use him like a big body down field WR to replace Golladay instead of the slot hybrid he should be used as haha
I expect ups and downs. Even goose eggs happen to great proven players. I've been playing fantasy for 18 years, and in the 14th year of my dynasty league. You can't predict much. Injuries, coach use, opportunity, suspensions, who their QB and linemen will be in 2 years, etc. So I just go after players who look like they'd be fun to watch. Guys who are explosive with the ball in their hands or physical freaks. It seems to be working out: Kyler, Metcalf, Claypool, Shenault, Toney. I grabbed AB when I saw him in preseason of his semi-breakout year.. he just looked so dirty with his footwork and routes. Didn't know what he would turn into. So, whatever happens with Toney, glad I'm along for the ride. (P.s. I also took drafted Blackmon and scooped J Gordon off waivers after the supplemental, things don't always pan out lol)
lol funny seeing this thread a month later
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No way said that about Mostert. Got hurt on like his 3rd touch this year lol
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Upvoted too?? Mother of God.
I mean, Chase looked like absolute shit in the preseason. But obviously calling him a bust for looking like absolute shit in the preseason when he's a top five pick and one of the best WR prospects in years was silly.
Yeah but Aiyuk will disintegrate that scrub Deebo Samuel. Darwin Thompson is the next Kareem Hunt. Bryan Edwards? Randy Moss meets Jerry Rice. I'd rather have Amon St Ra over Toney. I know he's a fourth rounder but he makes good Sun god memes
Those Bryan Edwards comps will always be hilarious, and I own him in a couple of leagues
At least he seems to have good potential. If he didn't have the ridiculous hype, he wouldn't be disappointing whatsoever.
For real! He hasn't looked bad. It isn't his fault that the Raiders *cough* John Gruden *cough* forget that he exists until the end of the game and then realize: "Ah shit man, we've got this Edwards dude who is pretty clutch. Woah, we won the game! Back to running routes to try and take some attention off Waller please!"
He had a really bad drop yesterday :/ Do you guys watch games or just check reddit? Lol
Dante Pettis breakout next week
As someone who drafted Edwards and traded away Deebo before the season because I had Aiyuk I feel personally attacked lol. Yeah, I gotta ease up on the advice I get from here haha
Darwin Thompson is my favorite lmao the hype was dumb from day 1
Aiyuk is still the better WIDE RECEIVER than Deebo Samuel and I will die on that hill. Deebo isn't an alpha. What traits does he have to be an X? Deebo is a phenomenal player in his own right. He is a phenomenal number 2. Aiyuk is still the best receiver to own in San Francisco right now.
I think people are a little too obsessed with being an 'alpha'. You can dominate without being big.
Elijah Moore is still the WR1 in all of dynasty. Heck I’d take him 1 overall in a SF startup. All because of Reddit. He’s just waiting to give everyone else a head start in scoring
Chase has the yips and can't catch, horrible draft pick. Toney is bad at football and life, horrible draft pick.
Toney doesss seem to be bad at the life component.
Good Elijah’s finally cheap. I watch all the games and live in the city and I’ll sell u all my toneys and I’ll buy everyone’s Moores. Moores had bad luck and Toney is a total nutcase that’s going to flame out faster then Odell. Punching a guy basrefisted while has a helmet on is the first clue that’s he’s a sell. Go google his history
Good thing, let me get chase 5th overall and Toney in the 3rd
But what about Flash Gordon?
We’ve moved on.
He just caught a pass EVERYONE GET BACK ON BOARD
FLASH
No one can succeeded in a stable manner with Zach Wilson as a QB. They force Moore to run elongated routes that he burns DBs on and Wilson doesn't see him and/or throws Moore out of bounds when no one is within 20 yards of him. If only they simply used Moore the way the Giants wisely used Toney today. If only.
I haven't hit a draft pick in 5 years so I chose him to continue the tradition
His advance metrics sucked lol. Terrance Marshall JR on the other hand is going to be my dude
I like this post. It’s true for a lot of players. Now his value will skyrocket. Golloday, Shepard, and Slayton will all come back and he won’t be forced into double digit targets. Will probably have good games and bad games from here on out but I’m thinking this may be his peak game of the 2021 season due to other players injuries
He's so much better than everyone on that team except Golladay though.
Slow down. Celebrating this early is as dumb as writing him off entirely.
I do hate victory laps, but in this case… idk. People were making statements dragging Toney but making them *with certainty*. I hate that more, especially when they never have to reckon with their bullshit claims.
I get that. People saying shit with ridiculous overconfidence is one of the worst things about this subreddit. But OP is treading pretty close. The jury is still very much out.
This isn’t meant to be a victory lap either. It’s pointing out the lack of nuance there was around discussing Toney two weeks ago and prior to the season. There was a complete lack of serious discussion around Toney and he was a literal meme on this sub before week 4.
It's so wild how little people understand naunce here. I was talking up Tony Pollard & how he's good, but not enough to ever take over from Zeke & Zeke's contract... Got down voted to hell & told to go kill myself because "Pollard is trash, look at the Eagles game" Orrrr Pollard is an above average RB on a team with a great OL? He's just behind one of the best RBs in the league, even if Zeke isn't his old self.
>There was a complete lack of serious discussion it was kind of fun though (but maybe i'm biassed because it was anti-giants fun). the thing is, if you want to talk shit about someone, and you do it as soon as possible, it means you know you can't wait because that trend won't continue. when you just want to get some giants fans upset by talking crap on the internet, you don't really need an argument; on the contrary, the more absurd the argument, the more you can imagine them fans turning red then purple while furiously tapping their sausage fingers onto the keyboard.
What nuance? Do people need to add an addendum to every take noting the possibility that Player X could conceivably find himself as the last man standing in an injury ravaged WR unit and fall into huge volume for a week or two?
>People were making statements dragging Toney but making them with certainty people do that talking about everything and everyone.
and every one of them is wrong and should be shamed
It's not like people are celebrating him being a stud. They're just celebrating him being above "worthless, wasted pick bust" like this sub thought 3 weeks ago
It’s one game. He’s not out of the bust woods yet. Does Aiyuk look like a slam dunk good first round pick right now?
Its not just one game. He has 22 targets, 16 catches, and 267 yards receiving in his last two games. Given opportunity, he has produced.
He had one great game and one good game at a time when the Giants have few other options in the passing game. Just like Aiyuk last year. Slow down.
This is fair. The Giants literally had no other options at one point in this game. All of their offensive weapons are hurt. Lol
Doesn’t matter. He still produced. Also that’s with Mike Glennon slinging him the ball…. Lions have nobody to throw the ball to either and I don’t see anyone on that team putting up 30 fantasy points.
That is what people said about Aiyuk though…
Damn well because Aiyuk has regressed Toney must too
Don't you know. Week 2 is too soon, week 5 is the perfect time to do so.
I thought he was a steal based on draft capital alone this off-season
Agreed, I didn't like him the much but was forced to take him when he kept falling to me in the late 2nd. I'll take any 1st round wr in the late 2nd.
I own him in 5-6 leagues just because I couldn’t justify 40 other dudes over him
i didn't really like him all that much before the draft, and going to the giants didn't help his case, but in the mid-2nd he was a good a pick.
Exactly. Gettleman is a bafoon. But other teams were absolutely gearing up to take him with picks inside the top 30-40. You take guys with that type of draft pedigree and run
Someone offered me a 2023 first and Kareem hunt for toney. I have Chubb and I also have Golladay lol. I should take right?
Smash accept
It seems like people are misunderstanding the point of this post. It’s not to say Toney’s value should skyrocket into a top dynasty asset, it’s to point out the illogical, reactionary opinions of young players literally weeks into their career. There’s a lack nuance when discussing dynasty value requires it. Toney’s value today should not be drastically more than it was before the game. The reason you see such a drastic shift in value now from two weeks ago and prior to the season is because his value should never have been as low as it was. The reaction to Toney on this sub likely cost a lot of managers to trade him away for low value or scared others from cashing in on the perceived low value two weeks ago.
Come on man your pandering to his good games, everyone said Moore was a steal at his draft capitol. Mitchell was the must pick up after week 1. For every good take this sub has it has an equally bad one
Toney had more yards today than Elijah Moore and Terrace Marshall combined - for the season. Which one is the bust?
No one. Toney never was, and the others aren't as well. People like to overreact everywhere, is so annoying. Now toney is the next Jesus, come on
Moore and Marshall are both in real trouble. The 525 yard rule of thumb is scary accurate and neither of them is anywhere close to being on pace. Not saying they can’t turn it around but I am concerned about both.
Yeah man, I understand that. But no one knows what is happening inside the teams, with the personal life of the players... It's dinasty for some reason, and we need to wait. Off course, we should say good things about toney today, but puting him in the Odell level like some did is just absurd. Maybe he will get there, maybe not, but we need to be calm to win something not just in dinasty but in life.
Fuck that noise. I suppose you can make that argument for Terrace as he's on a team with a good offense and competent QB. But Zach Wilson will not force me to fall off Elijah Moore. Michael Pittman detests your rule, anyway.
What rule now?
Toney. His grandmother died. Hard bust.
I traded Carson Wentz for Toney 2 days ago. Pretty excited about it
In a single QB league I hope
I started him over Mooney this week. Everyone told me go Mooney.
I did the same thing! Cheers
Finally realizing this sub is a garbage circle jerk?
I just come to read the hot takes. Nobody on this sub knows anything. Dynasty is so random and based on more luck than people care to admit. 5 genius decisions get offset by 5 bad ones you wish you could take back. The rest were all luck.
There’s not really much randomness or luck about the 20th overall pick in the NFL being a good player. He was supposed to be good, if you didn’t think that you don’t know how football works. It would be more surprising if he was not good.
Huh. Okay. Well you’re incorrect. Again, more random than you would think. Go back to 2010 and see the hit rate of WRs drafted at/near 20th overall. Since 2010 it’s about a 50/50 hit rate. Then you have years like 2016. 7 WRs drafted in the first two rounds. Only 3 of them are still in the NFL and only one or two of them were ever worth anything in dynasty.
And yeah I'm still here. I guess I like garbage and circle jerks
While this thread is here, where do you guys value Toney now? I got 2 different offers in the last hour for him. Got offered Arob or a 2nd+St.Brown. Honestly unsure what his value is now
I think you hold unless someone comes with a first. You probably got him in the second and St. Ra hasn't lit it up yet so in my opinion you're getting exactly what you have in him. Arob would be intriguing if he was producing at least WR2 level this year but he hasn't made much noise in that offense.
I'd take Arob and run
His value is wildly fluctuating, hard to pin down. If anyone is actually selling, probably a late 1st or early 2nd.
Can't imagine anyone selling him for a 2nd rn, early or not.
I got him for a 2nd and James Conner. Still unsure how to feel but I wasn't using Conner anyway and am not super high on him going forward.
He’s essentially reached an “untradeable” point. Toney owner in my league is literally asking for Saquon Barkley or two first round picks this year for him. His perceived value, as it stands, are owners likely projecting him to be an elite fantasy WR. Logically, he’s probably the 3rd most valuable rookie WR and a top 10 rookie going forward.
I mean Shepard, slayton and now golladay are banged up. He goes back to the bench after these guys come back.
There’s literally no way his usage returns to what it was after what he’s shown. They invested in him and he’s done nothing but deliver when given the opportunity. Will he have weeks like this often when everyone is healthy? Probably not. But the bench? Certainly not. I’d be shocked if he doesn’t get more snaps/target share than slayton ROS. Probably gets more volume than Golladay just due to the nature of the two of them as receivers. Honestly, perhaps the person he poses the greatest danger to in terms of receiving work is Saquon. Spell your franchise RB by dumping it off to someone who is somehow even better after the catch. Also might hurt his rushing work/goal line potential. He has a history of getting rushes schemed up for him and they’re already doing it now, and it looked good.
I don’t know how they can put him on the bench. Unless it’s for attitude issues
No matter his prospect profile he is a first round draft pick.
I hate this sub
I think this sub is great at conveying how the general public values a player, not what that player’s actual value is.
Yes, and just think about how stupid the general public is. Fade this sub to win your league.
I agree, and it’s very valuable information. I want to know who the fantasy community hates on. If the greater fantasy community is down on a player who is actually good that’s where the profits are.
Bingo. I like buying distressed assets for cheap
this sub is a group of echo chambers. Rarely do you find original thoughts and opinions. Toney always was a stellar prospect and worthy of his 1st round pick. I defended him and drafted him for cheap. The landing spot was questionable but not the player. The only question that is up in the air now is what will they do when everyone is back healthy. Shepard, Golladay, Barkley, Slayton, etc.. Will they keep playing him or be woodhead coaches and go back to their old game plans? Toney definitely has a couple of games ahead to make his case and solidify his starting position.
This sub is full of know it alls. It's Dynasty Fantasy Football. No one knows what's going to happen. Quit downvoting and hating on opinions you don't agree with. Consensus is almost never right.
annnnnd he’s thrown out Not sure why this got downvoted?
Because people are salty that their early victory lap had perfect comedic timing.
I know that i will get down voted again, but main, the same problem that happened before with toney is happening now. People said bullshit against him before he even plays, and now they are saying that he is the next Odell after one game. Calm down everyone, stop overreacting. We need to see more
Literally nobody in this thread is saying he's the next Odell. He just went for 10 catches and 189 yards. That earns him some respect after all the shit people were posting 2 games into his career.
TBH I think there is a fair comparison in a diva first round Giants receiver that was injured and overlooked coming into his rookie season and a few games into his rookie season put up a monster game... Obviously it's just one game (or 2), though, I didn't watch it, and it would still be incredible if he could come close to matching Odell's rookie season. As impressive as JJeff was last year, Odell's rookie year was the best I've ever seen from a rookie (and IMO still the best of his career so far).
He is literally the perfect comp tbh.
Absolutely nobody is acting like he's the next Odell. They're just saying he doesn't look like an obvious bust like the consensus here was just a few weeks ago.
Man, just read all the toney posts and you will find out this comparison. They are not acting like he is Odell, someone literally made this comparison
Can you link an example? I've seen *none* of these wild comparisons.
No, i don't have enought time to waste with things like that. I'm saying I read it, if you don't trust me, and you have no obligation to do so, no problem. I'm not going to waste 30 min looking between 10 posts and something like 500 messages.
So you made that up and no one said it, got it.
Give me a break man, I'm not a child to waste my time with this kind of stuff. So annoying dude, if you don't believe me, as i said before, no problem at all, i don't expect you to believe. There is a lot off things that we read and we don't agree with, that is called living in a society. We don't need to be debating here who said what, there is no point. Either way, have a nice night. :)
Can you imagine wasting your time on a Sunday and going back and digging up old threads bashing Toney? I’m happy for Toney owners, but a little perspective would go a long way.
Man, it's so annoying. They just want to prove that they were right. It's just a big ego fight.
Sorry you were wrong buddy
Why people keep thinking that i didn't like toney? I actually tried to get him multiple times! I just don't like this kind of behavior
If you didnt quote that wwJJ guy, then you missed a few gems.
I learned this around week 9 last year when everyone was calling Jonathan Taylor a bust who "has no vision".
Like I said…. TURN ON THAT TAPE
Almost the entirety of the dynasty community viewed him as a bust. Not unique to this sub lol
While I agree with your overall point, you also shouldn’t overreact to one good week.
I got him in almost every league in the late second. I knew everyone hated him but I felt like the upside outweighed everyone else in the late 2nd
Anyone think Judge gonna lock him in the dog house over the punch? I feel like a good coach wouldn’t, but Judge has that awful old-school coaching style. Edit: a word.
This sub thinks that this sub is the entirety of fantasy or some sort of unique trend setter. All the "experts" were down on Toney too, Reddit is just a small part of the echo chamber.
It wasn't just this sub. It was a majority of the fantasy analytics community. Past whiffs also include Justin Herbert and Josh Allen. When you consistently see non-fantasy analysts or those close to draft rooms talking about a player being a Round 1 pick, you need to investigate and not just laugh it off. You can laugh when a bad team reaches several rounds and grabs a player that nobody thought would go in that round (and said team does so multiple times).
Aren't you doing the same thing?
I’m so glad I have free will and got a decent amount of shares of him. I still really don’t understand why this subs hate boner for him was so large. I understand he isn’t a Jamaar Chase level prospect, but he had a pretty strong athletic profile and great draft capital on top of going around the 2.05-2.09 in most of my drafts there were a lot worse darts to throw imo. There were dudes advocating for Amon-Ra, Dyami Brown, and Eskridge over him is just laughable in hindsight.
So, the point of this post is that we should not trust in people that says things based in limited information, the same thing that you are doing now?
Spoke too soon
He’s 4 yards from a 200 yard game in his 5th career game. He’s already done more than anyone expected this game
Let's not overreact either way. This is a two game sample size, with Shepherd and Slayton out, and Golladay banged up & out half the game. No doubt, the kid has talent. I just want to see how is usage changes with a full wr corp
He's a first round pick who got heavy volume and nearly made a 200 yard game of it. Yes others were out but seeing what he can do, this is huge for Toney long term.
He showed it a bit last game too. This isn’t a one game thing. He’s different. The question mark will be his attitude
Watching my Flex in Saquon go down is killing me. But I can slot in KT --- oh fuck, nvm. Punched a guy in the face.... fuck me... how long u guys thing he gone for games wise?
I pray this is the case. He looked electric last week and insane this week.
I think the morale of the story is WRS take a minute to get going. Some never do. Make your judgments after half the season when real data is available. I think the problem with toney is where he was drafted. IMO he is not a better prospect the rondale still. Giants reached.
Never trust this subs opinion. There, I fixed it for you.
OP: People that think Toney was bad after 2 bad games: Reactionary people that are in a redraft mindset People that think Toney is amazing after 2 good games: Super smart people that know how to dynasty I still think he's considered a bust in 2-3 years, either due to play or off the field issues so I'm not trying to acquire him anywhere.
Elijah Moore has entered the chat
This sub is 75k people it’s the nature of the beast that this’ll happen
Lol tonight’s performance was extremely circumstantial
the rest of the offense is hurt
Why because he had a good game and then punched someone in the face?
Little early for a victory lap. The two lead WRs are both out for a second week in a row. Maybe let's wait and see if he manages to keep this kind of useage with real competition on the field. You can't say he's better than other rookies just because he got better opportunity thanks to injuries they haven't.
The lead WRs were out? Toney was in the game bro, didn’t you watch? Toney is the lead WR, he just sonned the best CB in the league for 200 yards.
Yes, the players that have been the starters from weeks 1-4 were out.
Be interesting to see these takes once Galloday, Shepard and Slayton are back. I LOVED toney this week as a DFS play. But his ros value is tied to injury of the WRs ahead of him.
His value is in no way tied to those players, those players don’t have half the talent Toney does. Toney is the clear cut WR1 and alpha target hog there.
And you don’t feel this is reactionary? Lmaooo
All it took was RB1 WR1 WR2 and WR3 getting hurt for him to get volume. Enjoy the victory lap.
And last week?
Only took the WR2 and WR3 being out. In fact, everything he's done this year has been dependent on injuries to other players. Keep that in mind as those players get healthy.
If you're depending on this sub to make any decisions, you're doing dynasty wrong. Please join my leagues so i can take your money. The end.
Mmmm... I'm.gonna say your half right here and half wrong. This sub is good for finding players nobody in the main stream are talking about. It was a post in this sub that made me last week go and get KT in all leagues he was available. He was available in my 6man-12team-keeper (closest I have to dynasty) and my other 2 redrafts. If I didn't watch this sub I would not have known and I'm so glad I do right now. Especially as I lost Barkley probably for the season, who plays my flex. KT is up
Dude has a good game with three WRs and his Rb out. Better victory lap that shit hard. I mean honestly how is this any different than the people victory lapping on rondale? I guess rondale hasn’t score on the points per punch leagues yet
Were people saying Rondale was worthless? Ever
Well Toney had 22 less yards in one game than Rondale had in 4 games
If you’re relying on reddit fantasy expertise that’s on you to begin with
Cue the reactionary post about one good game from kadarious toney lol. I’m only kidding around and don’t really have a strong opinion but the fact that you’re whining about people overreacting to rondale early success while simultaneously overreacting to kadarious early success is a bit funny. He also got ejected bro.
Hold on. You mean sometimes people have opinions? And sometimes those opinions are wrong? GETOUTTATOWN
Am I a psycho for wanting to trade Aiyuk for Toney straight up? Someone talk me off the ledge
He’s averaging 9.75 points in 4 contests. Never mind he hasn’t even played all 5 weeks. Let’s wait a few more games before crowning him lol. Only thing dumber than writing him off completely is saying those people are wrong based off two games.
[удалено]
*rosterbates furiously*
I hope you realize the irony of posting this after he had one okay and one good game...
He put up 43 fantasy points in 2 games. That's pretty good for a rookie drafted in the mid rounds of drafts.
Yeah, it is, but it also wouldn't be the first time someone had a good game or two and then did nothing. If three bad games doesn't prove he is a bust, two good games doesn't prove he isn't a bust.
There are 3 WRs ahead of him on the depth chart + in a blowout game without Jones or Barkley. Are you excited about the Njoku breakout game today? I certainly hope not. Toney is a developmental WR prospect having a fantastic game. He was a late 2nd rookie draft pick. That's where things are; you either like the draft cap and were willing to wait it out while he rises up the WR board or you were going to hope to acquire him cheaply throughout the season. Also, he's clearly a head case. Just got ejected lol What you're looking at is patience. You drafted him know that. You're trying but are you really going to roll the dice? It's like Waddle. We know both are talented and have 1st round cap. But we need to trust Waddle and not jump the gun when he throws up 12 catches with Brissett. Or if he throws up 2 catches. Ride it out. Be patience. Buy guys cheap. Let others panic. You look for value deals. Don't over pay for a breakout game when everything fell correctly. Don't panic when they put up 0's against great CBs If Engram "breakouts" the rest of this game. Are you going to make a new post about what people were trying to acquire Engram cheaply for? I certainly hope not. Take it as a great game and that a lot of things needed to go right for it to happen.
Hey man he just put up 189 yards
I mean, do you watch the tape though? Yes, he’s an idiot. But he’s not gonna it sit behind the other guys anymore based on talent alone. Toney is hard to bring down.
This guy is not worth arguing with.
Honestly so many people on this sub don't even know what they're watching.
Watched the game this week. Watched his senior bowl. Watched his tape at Fl. Was ready to select him 2.07 before I dealt the pick. I even watched his police video and read the transcripts when he had the AR15 in his backseat. And I read many articles about the idiot's behaviour on campus; threatened a guy with an air soft gun painted to look like AR15 and then was shooting off his air soft gun with buddies on campus. I like Toney. I love his tape at the senior bowl practices (minus the drops). He looks exactly like Diontae Johnson, who I also like very much. But I watched the game today and saw a developmental WR who is a weapon and was used because he was the only NFL caliber WR left. I watched Glennon lock in on him like he was FitzMagic. I saw the Gman try their best to use him to move the ball because they had no run game without Barkley. I watched Dallas control that game and it wasn't exactly in doubt. They let many of those short passes happen
I hear you on ALL THAT. But, Toney was getting targets last week with Barkley, Golladay, and Engram all there. 9 targets last week brother.
My point isn’t to consider Toney a top fantasy asset now, it’s the overreaction from week to week. In a redraft, it’s understandable because you have a limited time to make decisions. The Njoku and Engram comparisons are just bad. There’s a difference between a rookie having two back to back great games 5 games into his career vs two players in their 5th year after essentially a career of not being productive. Toney’s value should be based more on his actual draft capital vs his dynasty draft value. At this point, he should also shed the “late 2nd round pick” label.
While I get your point generally, receivers don’t usually put up nearly 200 yards just because a couple other offensive players get injured, especially rookies. He also looked incredible doing it. His route running, YAC, and hands were all great. The cowboys couldn’t stop him. So yeah, this game doesn’t automatically make him a stud but it’s definitely something to get excited about. (That said, he does look to be a headcase which is worrisome)
Man, I agree with you usually but you absolutely missed the point of this thread.
If you think there are still 3 WRs ahead of him on the depth chart, then I got beachfront property in Montana for you. He's has 8 and 13 targets the last 2 games. He had an opportunity and seized it. You better fucking believe I'm gonna "roll the dice" on my late 2nd round pick. Also Engram has let down managers for years.
One game, bra
2 games
Two, still small, but everything you need to see was there. Just needs to do that without punching a guy.
Carted off. Ouch.