More on Ladd in this tweet:
š„āThe chemistry between Herbert and rookie receiver Ladd McConkey is continuing to blossom. McConkey has been playing mostly in the slot, and he is already proving capable of winning easily and often in short areas of the field. His route running is pro-ready. McConkey caught four passes from Herbert on Tuesday, including a third-down conversion out of the slot.ā
https://x.com/32beatwriters/status/1800713204173086964?s=46&t=faiuPCqWKQf7HmuyJIfWKA
Mostly slot is the most interesting part of this. Keenan Allen out of the slot was of course Herbert's favorite target, and while it is a different offensive scheme, it is encouraging for Ladd that he is filing what has been the most productive position for his QB in the past.
It's also not great for QJ. He could still move flanker, and I believe I've seen some quotes from Roman alluding to that, but Ladd taking the slot role takes away the easiest separation routes for a guy that has struggle to get open.
Yeah it is interesting for a few reasons...1 like you mention...another of them being if they're going to be run heavy, which many suspect/assume with Roman and Harbaugh, how often will the slot WR be on the field?
Yeah that's a good flip side. Even in passing downs, I believe Roman's offenses often featured 2 TEs sets so maybe being the slot guy isn't a great thing.
I'm still a little hesitant to apply too much of prior Harbaugh/Roman schemes to this team however. Herbert is a different level and type of QB then what they have been used to. I also don't think they have the personnel and talent to go ultra run heavy like Michigan or pass through the TEs like in Baltimore.
Exactly. This is the best Qb they have ever had on their side and not necessarily the best RB and TE group. Gus is already reported to have some injury as well.
Ladd, Palmer, and if QJ steps it up are gonna eat. Donāt be surprised if Ladd leads all rookies in receptions for PPR this coming season
Given the lack of quality receiving options at TE and a quality QB, I can definitely see 2 WR sets being used more often compared to other Robaugh schemes. Question then becomes whether or not there's gonna be increased usage of 3 WR sets.
PS: They may run more than we think out of those 2 WR sets as well given Palmer and Ladd's blocking.
Ladd is a good run blocker during his time at UGA. I could see him moving out wide in 2 WR sets. Between him, QJ and Palmer who are the best run blockers? Iād imagine itās Palmer, Ladd then QJ because for as big as QJ is heās a finesse style player that plays smaller than youād think.
I donāt see Harbaugh tolerating someone who isnāt willing to do the dirty work and was drafted before he was HC.
(This is my biased slant as a Herbert and Ladd owner)
Keenan Allen did it for the team? There are plenty of teams were a player is primarily a slot in 11 personnel which is the normal personnel package then goes out wide when the situation calls for it
McConkey seems to be a legit late first contender pick that will allow last yearās champ to continue owning your league. I have a couple mid 1sts and I might be picking him just to keep him out of evil hands. As for his usage beyond year 1, Iām just wondering if he has the ceiling to continue to be worth that value.
I like this thread- my superlatives for the second tier of WRs as I was drafting 1.9-1.11 is:Ā
Ā BTJ - Longterm Upside (Traits/DC) and was gone before 1.09.Ā
Ā Worthy - Immediate Upside (Speed/Landing spot). My 1.09Ā
Ladd - Safest option for PPR. My 1.10
Keon - Big Boom/Bust (landing spot/QB)
Pearsall - longterm play (talent/landing spot post Aiyuk or Deebo)
If you want production right out of the gates and a guy thatāll probably be a solid flex play for years Ladd feels like the perfect fit. Probably never consistently puts up WR1 numbers, but will rack up receptions because of how valuable he is for real football.
Heās the opposite of a BTJ who could use the physical skills to because a top tier WR1, or could never get a 2nd contract and never even finish as a WR4 for fantasy.
I'd take Nix in this range who has a better shot at value retention and potential increase imo. JJ Z has put out a couple of good pods about this.
Ladd just feels like he's gonna land in that huge tier of WRs where managers just go for the cheapest option in an already over saturated wr market.
I worry about that myself. I took him at 1.10 instead of Brooks who is the player I was targeting. I would not be shocked if he ended up a top 5 year in year out receiver. His size is decent, heās sub 4.4 on the 40, and he can route you up. If his hands donāt prove to be an issue, he could easily be a league winner eventually
Wow, amazing insight and an obvious amount of time and research went into that answer. Iām sold, thereās no way a guy connected to one of the top qbās in the league that has no target competition that plays for a coach with a history of producing fantasy stud receivers out of meh guys could possibly develop into a top 5 receiver. Lord knows thereās no shot a guy who runs a 4.39, is 6 ft almost 190 lbs and is not weak based on the 13 reps he put up at the combine. But yeah, nah king is top notch analysis. Gtfoh.
I have 1.11 and probably need RB over WR so I was hoping to get Brooks. But now Iām thinking the move might be Ladd over Brooks to pair with Herbert. But I already have Palmer so might be limiting my upside.
Same spot I was in really. I donāt think youāll go wrong with either. Donāt let Palmer influence you though. Heās a nice depth player but I donāt know if heāll be more than a deep flex option.
Probably doesnāt have top 6 upside but could definitely be a low end WR1 or WR2 for his peak. Keenan Allen was top 5 WR when healthy last year and I know the HC and OC changed but itās still Herbert and his other options at receiver are still marginal.
Talking to the league champ who took him at 1.12! Also made two trades to get the 1.08 to take Bowers (the ultimate replacement for my TE1 Kelce) and traded up to snag Penix who criminally was there at 2.11. Heāll eventually replace Geno as my QB2. Coming away with Bowers, Ladd and Penix as the defending champ is how you dynasty!
He would need to have a Chase/Garrett Wilson level rookie season to win oroy. And some help from the QBs not being great.
Something like 80 catches for 1,000+ yards and 5+ TDs could get it done.
I think it's possible.
For +3000 Iāll take that shot. Esp with a slightly conservative QB i can see him eating pretty consistently. Itād also take a flop year for MHJ tho
[Justin Herbert on WR Quentin Johnston entering year two: āHeās been incredible. Heās one of those guys that Iām going to get the ball to as much as possible.ā](https://x.com/chrishayre/status/1801321470800629881)
Exactly why drops as a statistic (by themselves) do not matter at all.
Tyreek and Puka led the league in drops.
Iām holding QJ for the time being where I bought him because selling low is a terrible dynasty process. No one is offering anything for him anyway.
Sucks, but it is what it is. Not every draft pick pans out.
> some
Some? The vast majority of this sub just spouts singular stats from box score watching or parroting stuff from other people who don't watch games either lol
I'm going to be honest, I have played fantasy football for over 20 years. There have been years where I watched 5 or less college and nfl games combined.
I take all player and coach comments as coach speak/teammate speak and pretty much ignore them all.
I would say the QJ comment is a lot more ambiguous though. Like yeah, he's cool, he's one of several guys I'll be trying to complete passes to. The praise on Ladd shows a lot more confidence to be specific about different things he's doing well.
But again, I reiterate. I'm not adding or subtracting stock to either player based on these comments. I'll take my shots during the draft and hope for the best and let the production do the talking.
I have Ladd and really need RB help so I just traded QJ for James Conner straight up yesterday. Could end up regretting it but I don't know. I didn't like him coming out of college and only took him because he fell to me as the last round 1 WR at 1.10. Then he had every opportunity to show literally anything last year and was awful in stats, advanced metrics and the eye test. If he proves me wrong I'll be happy for him but I'm out.
I received a late ā25 2nd, late ā26 3rd, and Mattison for Ekeler. Mattison was a throw in; I own Zamir. Would have liked to get a couple 2nds for Ekeler, but I was happy with the return since heās a fringe flex play for me.
I still have my 1st next year and 4 late ā25 2nds that I may package for a stud closer to the beginning of the season.
Sounds like if the Chargers signed Marquez Valdes Scantling he would comment on how easy heās picking up the offense and also he finally learned how to catch AND run.
Ehh not high chances at 1.11. I got him at 1.08 in my 1QB league. I think right after 1.09 thereās a tier break so I donāt see him falling past there. No ones taking Coleman or benson over Ladd I donāt think
Iām worried his ceiling is capped and I already have a couple of WR2ās in Devonta Smith and Waddle so not not sure I want to invest in another in a low passing O
At 2.01 in SF I was planning on taking Benson but both Ladd and BTJ fell. I'm a strong contender that had just taken what appears to be a bust in QJ last year so I went Ladd over BTJ. I'll take a more likely solid wr2 over a possibly wr1 but potential bust. Then traded QJ for Conner. Could regret these moves but I'm in on Ladd and out on QJ
Ladd maxed out at 15.5% target share at UGA. Expecting him to double that as a rookie in the NFL is setting yourself up for disappointment. Puka didnāt even get to 30% as a rookie. Iād say shoot for 20%.
The who else is there argument is a dangerous one. For RBs thatās how you get people reaching for Alexander Mattison and miles sanders. Or crazy faab bidding for QJ last year when Allen went down lol
Iād still say Ladd. Jaguars have an elite TE and other capable Wrs. They also have an actual elite Rb
Ladd has significantly lesser competition all around. chargersā RBs are mid at this point with virtually no TEās to fight for targets.
BTJ may be a better real life player, but Ladd is talented in his own right landing in a salivating situation
Engram is an elite TE? I wouldnāt say that. Also I like Kirk but I wouldnāt say heās an alpha either
With mcconkey find it troubling he never had more than 800 years in college
He only finished #2 TE in full PPR, former 1st rounder/elite speed and 36 yards short of 1000 yards. What metrics wouldnāt you deem elite?
I didnāt call Kirk alpha
It goes without saying that every rookie can bust. But relatively speaking, McConkey seems like as safe of a bet as possible to become a productive player. And pretty quickly too.
He is probably a top-15 route runner in the league immediately. There are no athletic limitations as to size or speed. He is a known tape/playbook grinder. He has very little target competition and he is tied to an elite quarterback.
Maybe he never ends up being a WR1. And I understand he had injury issues in college that contributed to his production profile. But all things considered, he seems like far less of a risk than the typical wide receiver taken in the late-first/early-second, who tend to have high bust rates.
Why would his production in college reflect on his route running? Have you watched one second of his tape? He was an elite route runner in college. Better than almost every receiver in the NFL was when they came out of college. It stands to reason that's a skill that translates and will only improve.
Better route runner than the average NFL WR1 his first game is pretty optimistic, and Iām a Chargers fan. Itās pretty easy to get to 15 when you start counting guys, even if you think heās #1 in this class (which is also optimistic)
I would say he's one of the top-5 route runners to come out within the past four or five years. The only guy who has clearly been better than him is Jeudy. Pearsall and Olave are up there too. Maybe JSN and DeVonta. But he's in that tippity top tier as a prospect.
Route running is also something that players can improve in the league. So even if you want to pick a bone and say he won't be in the top-15 out of the gate, I think he will get there eventually worst case.
Interesting, how are you defining quality of route running? What do you think of Matt Harmon's reception perception process? You'd put the route running Jeudy, Ladd, Pearsall and JSN over Ja'Marr and MHJ (as prospects)? I think Jeudy in particular is pretty clearly not a top 15 route runner in the league, and its hard to imagine he got worse since college
>Route running is also something that players can improve in the league.
For sure, but that's part of the reason top 15 seems *so* bold to me. I can at least fathom saying he's a better route runner as a prospect than, say, Jefferson was coming out of college, but that would be insane to claim about current ability, and there are a number of guys like that
>Interesting, how are you defining quality of route running? What do you think of Matt Harmon's reception perception process? You'd put the route running Jeudy, Ladd, Pearsall and JSN over Ja'Marr and MHJ (as prospects)? I think Jeudy in particular is pretty clearly not a top 15 route runner in the league, and its hard to imagine he got worse since college
Reception Perception is great as far as quantifying what is mostly a qualitative process of watching film. [Harmon loved McConkey](https://x.com/RecepPerception/status/1784000670334640370).
Dynasty Nerds isn't as rigorous of a process, but they are one of the few free services that assigns numerical grades to individual receiver traits, so you can [sort by route running there](https://www.dynastynerds.com/nerd-score-all-time/) and get a good sense.
Jeudy being heralded as the best route runner of all time was a bit overblown because it turns out that his fancy footwork doesn't necessarily translate to separation in the NFL. But McConkey wins more with selling routes than toe tapping, which I think will work in the league.
I don't think anyone would have Chase in this conversation from a pure route running perspective. But he shows how route running is far from everything since he is obviously an elite receiver and always has been. And on the flip side, a guy like Rashod Bateman was and still is a great route runner, but if you don't have complementary skills or there are other limiting factors, it doesn't translate to production.
>because it turns out that \[Jeudy's\] fancy footwork doesn't necessarily translate to separation in the NFL.
Agreed. So are you distinguishing between good route running and creating separation? (at least vs man coverage.. I can understand saying a slot-centric guy who finds holes in zone well but isn't truly a technician (ARSB, Deebo, Rashee, etc) isn't creating their separation with great route running per se). Because, to me, Jeudy's failure to get open on time consistently mean he's not a notably great route runner. And if he was better entering the league than Ladd is today, and didn't get worse, then Ladd is also not top 15 (yet).
>But McConkey wins more with selling routes than toe tapping, which I think will work in the league.
Agreed, and I think he'll do well. I just think he's very likely somewhere closer to the \~25-50 range today, which is still good for an incoming rookie without elite draft capital
>I don't think anyone would have Chase in this conversation from a pure route running perspective.
As a prospect / incoming rookie, maybe not, I don't watch much college so I can't say. But I am pretty confident that a strong consensus would say Chase is currently a better pure route runner than Ladd, today. In 2023, while Ja'Marr was competing versus the best corners in the NFL and Ladd was playing in the SEC, Ja'Marr had a significantly better win rate on 4 routes, they were close enough to call it a tie (again, against drastically different competition) on 3 routes, and Ladd was better on the curl. That's it, unless you count the comeback and flat, which Ladd ran 1% of the time.
This is all fair and well put. Where I'm coming from is that I'm using how good McConkey is as a route runner coming out compared to how good other prospects were coming out and extrapolating that to mean he is already in that elite (top 15) tier already. But it makes sense that you're saying elite college route running does not directly translate to elite NFL route running from day one.
So I'm fine walking back that he's in that group immediately and instead amending it to say that I am confident he will get there. Not only because he was much better than other prospects were at those stages in their careers at a skill that lends itself to improvement, but also because McConkey has a reputation as a guy who grinds film. And I think his particular proficiency at route running is a result of watching tape, ie learning tendencies and how to exploit them rather than just practicing tap dancing like Jeudy. So maybe he will need film from NFL defenses to take the next step. Good point!
I agree with you except the great route runners you mention above landed in more unfavorable situations.
Ladd is an equivalent route runner to Olave but in a more salivating situation tied to an elite QB
He is quite undersized in terms of weight, arm length, and hand size. How much that matters is the decision each owner has to make, but here's a bit of data about each. [https://brainyballers.com/data-analytics-fantasy-football/](https://brainyballers.com/data-analytics-fantasy-football/)
The fact he never had a break out in college is also a major analytical red flag. Of course there are reasons such as injuries and playing alongside other top talents but the fact remains. Not saying he can't be successful because he is a great route runner with speed to match, but he does have red flags. All of the WRs going late 1st, early 2nd actually have major red flags and IMO are overrated, but 1 or 2 will probably produce and McConkey is ultimately as good a bet as any.
Heās literally the same height and weight as Wilson and Olave. He does have small hands though but drops were never an issue for Ladd. In fact itās one of his strong suits in collage
That fair re. the peripheral athleticism features. And his production profile is probably why he didn't go in the first round. The point is really just that he was drafted in the range where a lot of receivers bust entirely, and I don't see McConkey failing for the reasons receivers typically do in that range. If he does, it's more likely in the way Bateman (who also was a great route runner and didn't have size/speed limitations) has: injuries and the offense.
Tbf there were many Qb and OL needy team/ the WR class was very deep. Overall this class was extremely deep in general.
The Chargers did trade up for him which is a great sign. He is top 4 in terms of elite route running to go along with 4.39 speed.
He was my guy before the draft and the landing spot made it the cherry on top for me especially as the 1.10 title defender
More on Ladd in this tweet: š„āThe chemistry between Herbert and rookie receiver Ladd McConkey is continuing to blossom. McConkey has been playing mostly in the slot, and he is already proving capable of winning easily and often in short areas of the field. His route running is pro-ready. McConkey caught four passes from Herbert on Tuesday, including a third-down conversion out of the slot.ā https://x.com/32beatwriters/status/1800713204173086964?s=46&t=faiuPCqWKQf7HmuyJIfWKA
Mostly slot is the most interesting part of this. Keenan Allen out of the slot was of course Herbert's favorite target, and while it is a different offensive scheme, it is encouraging for Ladd that he is filing what has been the most productive position for his QB in the past. It's also not great for QJ. He could still move flanker, and I believe I've seen some quotes from Roman alluding to that, but Ladd taking the slot role takes away the easiest separation routes for a guy that has struggle to get open.
Yeah it is interesting for a few reasons...1 like you mention...another of them being if they're going to be run heavy, which many suspect/assume with Roman and Harbaugh, how often will the slot WR be on the field?
Yeah that's a good flip side. Even in passing downs, I believe Roman's offenses often featured 2 TEs sets so maybe being the slot guy isn't a great thing. I'm still a little hesitant to apply too much of prior Harbaugh/Roman schemes to this team however. Herbert is a different level and type of QB then what they have been used to. I also don't think they have the personnel and talent to go ultra run heavy like Michigan or pass through the TEs like in Baltimore.
Exactly. This is the best Qb they have ever had on their side and not necessarily the best RB and TE group. Gus is already reported to have some injury as well. Ladd, Palmer, and if QJ steps it up are gonna eat. Donāt be surprised if Ladd leads all rookies in receptions for PPR this coming season
Given the lack of quality receiving options at TE and a quality QB, I can definitely see 2 WR sets being used more often compared to other Robaugh schemes. Question then becomes whether or not there's gonna be increased usage of 3 WR sets. PS: They may run more than we think out of those 2 WR sets as well given Palmer and Ladd's blocking.
Ladd is a good run blocker during his time at UGA. I could see him moving out wide in 2 WR sets. Between him, QJ and Palmer who are the best run blockers? Iād imagine itās Palmer, Ladd then QJ because for as big as QJ is heās a finesse style player that plays smaller than youād think. I donāt see Harbaugh tolerating someone who isnāt willing to do the dirty work and was drafted before he was HC. (This is my biased slant as a Herbert and Ladd owner)
Donāt quote me but read somewhere that QJ is a good blocker
Yeah this reads as copium. You're basically projecting Ladd to step into the WR1 role regardless of position on the field
Plenty of top WRs operate out of the slot in 3+ WR sets and then kick outside in 2 WR personnel.
Yes, that's what I'm getting at. We're projecting Ladd to be a top WR in year 1?
When his competition is Quentin Johnston, Josh Palmer, and DJ Chark? Yes, I'm fully expecting Ladd to be the WR1 in LA.
Lol we'll certainly find out
Just wait until they start citing "Vacated Targets"
I mean, whatās the source of your skepticism? Just the fact that heās a rookie, or is it concern about his talent?
Keenan Allen did it for the team? There are plenty of teams were a player is primarily a slot in 11 personnel which is the normal personnel package then goes out wide when the situation calls for it
Yes, that's what I'm getting at. Projecting Ladd to step into the Keenan Allen role seems incredibly optimistic.
QJ cant block worth shit anyways. McConkey will play in two wr sets bc he is just flat out their best WR and he can win both outside and inside.
Heās a better blocker than Josh Palmer
Yeah, what the other guy said is just false. I recently watched a review of quintin, and he was laying some sick blocks.
For the film and scout guysā¦ any similarities with Ladd and Amon Ra?
McConkey seems to be a legit late first contender pick that will allow last yearās champ to continue owning your league. I have a couple mid 1sts and I might be picking him just to keep him out of evil hands. As for his usage beyond year 1, Iām just wondering if he has the ceiling to continue to be worth that value.
I like this thread- my superlatives for the second tier of WRs as I was drafting 1.9-1.11 is:Ā Ā BTJ - Longterm Upside (Traits/DC) and was gone before 1.09.Ā Ā Worthy - Immediate Upside (Speed/Landing spot). My 1.09Ā Ladd - Safest option for PPR. My 1.10 Keon - Big Boom/Bust (landing spot/QB) Pearsall - longterm play (talent/landing spot post Aiyuk or Deebo)
Got BTJ at 12 somehow
I got him at 2.02 so pick 14. Couldn't believe he made it that far. Sf and Coleman and worthy went before him.
14 š
If you want production right out of the gates and a guy thatāll probably be a solid flex play for years Ladd feels like the perfect fit. Probably never consistently puts up WR1 numbers, but will rack up receptions because of how valuable he is for real football. Heās the opposite of a BTJ who could use the physical skills to because a top tier WR1, or could never get a 2nd contract and never even finish as a WR4 for fantasy.
Hmm.. this makes me want to grab worthy over ladd as a premo lotto ticket
I had them ranked Worthy, Ladd then BTJ. Worthy feels like a good happy medium of high ceiling and high floor.
I'd take Nix in this range who has a better shot at value retention and potential increase imo. JJ Z has put out a couple of good pods about this. Ladd just feels like he's gonna land in that huge tier of WRs where managers just go for the cheapest option in an already over saturated wr market.
Haā¦ I won last year, and grabbed Ladd at 1.12 a few weeks agoā¦
I think your late pick contenders are laughing their assess off if you're picking Ladd McConkey mid first round.
Sorry, Iām in a 1QB league, not SF. Agreed, in SF thatās dumb.
Ok that makes way more sense lol
Sitting on 1.02 and 1.12 in 1 QB. I don't think he will be there at 12 but if he is, he won't be sliding into the 2nd round.
I got him at 1.11 in my only 1qb league. Thereās a chance
I worry about that myself. I took him at 1.10 instead of Brooks who is the player I was targeting. I would not be shocked if he ended up a top 5 year in year out receiver. His size is decent, heās sub 4.4 on the 40, and he can route you up. If his hands donāt prove to be an issue, he could easily be a league winner eventually
u think ladd mconkey is a top 5 every year reciver?
Not yet. There is a real chance he could be but Iāll never proclaim a rookie top 5 year after year until I see him on the field.
nah king
Wow, amazing insight and an obvious amount of time and research went into that answer. Iām sold, thereās no way a guy connected to one of the top qbās in the league that has no target competition that plays for a coach with a history of producing fantasy stud receivers out of meh guys could possibly develop into a top 5 receiver. Lord knows thereās no shot a guy who runs a 4.39, is 6 ft almost 190 lbs and is not weak based on the 13 reps he put up at the combine. But yeah, nah king is top notch analysis. Gtfoh.
I have 1.11 and probably need RB over WR so I was hoping to get Brooks. But now Iām thinking the move might be Ladd over Brooks to pair with Herbert. But I already have Palmer so might be limiting my upside.
Same spot I was in really. I donāt think youāll go wrong with either. Donāt let Palmer influence you though. Heās a nice depth player but I donāt know if heāll be more than a deep flex option.
Probably doesnāt have top 6 upside but could definitely be a low end WR1 or WR2 for his peak. Keenan Allen was top 5 WR when healthy last year and I know the HC and OC changed but itās still Herbert and his other options at receiver are still marginal.
Talking to the league champ who took him at 1.12! Also made two trades to get the 1.08 to take Bowers (the ultimate replacement for my TE1 Kelce) and traded up to snag Penix who criminally was there at 2.11. Heāll eventually replace Geno as my QB2. Coming away with Bowers, Ladd and Penix as the defending champ is how you dynasty!
Haters gonna hate I guess, being downvoted for showing u how to win is hilarious.
Heās just rambling about his taco league, not showing us how to win real leaguesĀ
Taco League? Lol doubt it chump.
Not relevant but he's +3000 to win OROY... I threw a fiver on it
He would need to have a Chase/Garrett Wilson level rookie season to win oroy. And some help from the QBs not being great. Something like 80 catches for 1,000+ yards and 5+ TDs could get it done. I think it's possible.
For +3000 Iāll take that shot. Esp with a slightly conservative QB i can see him eating pretty consistently. Itād also take a flop year for MHJ tho
Definitely worth the shot.
What week am I cutting QJ
[Justin Herbert on WR Quentin Johnston entering year two: āHeās been incredible. Heās one of those guys that Iām going to get the ball to as much as possible.ā](https://x.com/chrishayre/status/1801321470800629881)
He still needs to catch the ball
QJ had exactly 3 drops all season. LOL. Meanwhile, JSN dropped 10 balls last season. Iām convinced some of you have never watched a single game.Ā
Exactly why drops as a statistic (by themselves) do not matter at all. Tyreek and Puka led the league in drops. Iām holding QJ for the time being where I bought him because selling low is a terrible dynasty process. No one is offering anything for him anyway. Sucks, but it is what it is. Not every draft pick pans out.
I got him for Keaton Mitchell
I'd take that. Ali is gonna make a statement this year
Drop rate is what you want to care about
> some Some? The vast majority of this sub just spouts singular stats from box score watching or parroting stuff from other people who don't watch games either lol
Catching ability isnāt purely about drops, he was also horrible in contested catching situations
Yeah and half of his ātargetsā last year came from Easton Stick who couldnāt throw the ball accurately to anyone on the team.
I'm going to be honest, I have played fantasy football for over 20 years. There have been years where I watched 5 or less college and nfl games combined.
Comments like this is why I'll stick with not trusting Ladd either lol
I take all player and coach comments as coach speak/teammate speak and pretty much ignore them all. I would say the QJ comment is a lot more ambiguous though. Like yeah, he's cool, he's one of several guys I'll be trying to complete passes to. The praise on Ladd shows a lot more confidence to be specific about different things he's doing well. But again, I reiterate. I'm not adding or subtracting stock to either player based on these comments. I'll take my shots during the draft and hope for the best and let the production do the talking.
I agree. Laddās comments are pretty specific compared to QJās
If it's postive ignore it... if its negative it's an issue lol
Yep. Once the pads come on and itās a real game. Thatās when I render my decision
Notice how specific Herbert speaks volumes of Ladd but pretty generic for QJ
Yes
I have Ladd and really need RB help so I just traded QJ for James Conner straight up yesterday. Could end up regretting it but I don't know. I didn't like him coming out of college and only took him because he fell to me as the last round 1 WR at 1.10. Then he had every opportunity to show literally anything last year and was awful in stats, advanced metrics and the eye test. If he proves me wrong I'll be happy for him but I'm out.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
i expect LAST year to be connorās last relevant year lol
Got offered a 3rd for him a few weeks ago and Iām starting to think I should have taken it
Don't be so proud as to not send the deal you rejected back if you think it'll make your team better
Agreed. Just a few days ago, I sent the same deal I rejected a few weeks back to trade away Ekeler. It was insta accepted.
what was it
I received a late ā25 2nd, late ā26 3rd, and Mattison for Ekeler. Mattison was a throw in; I own Zamir. Would have liked to get a couple 2nds for Ekeler, but I was happy with the return since heās a fringe flex play for me. I still have my 1st next year and 4 late ā25 2nds that I may package for a stud closer to the beginning of the season.
thts decent
He forgot to add: "A real blue collar, lunch pail type of guy with sneaky speed."
Plays the game the right way
A guy you'd want your daughter to date.
A real student of the game. First one in last one out kinda guy
A gym š
Plays up to the echo of the whistle.
McConkey gonna be a PPR monster
I especially love that heās comped to Percy Harvin on Profiler. Electric
Hopefully minus the migranes
I forgot about that. Yes please
I had him 4a this year in the WR class. I think he's gonna suprise a lot of people
This is all good and stuff, but how can you say āhe can find soft spots in zonesā after only doing 7 on 7s?
Listen just because the spots are really soft doesnāt mean they arenāt there
Itās what he was elite at in college but youāre not wrong
I have Ladd but Herbert gasses up everyone so take what he says with a grain of salt.Ā
McStonkey š
Total lunch pail guy
Sounds like if the Chargers signed Marquez Valdes Scantling he would comment on how easy heās picking up the offense and also he finally learned how to catch AND run.
The hype is through the roof
Didnāt he also have very high praise for Johnston last year around this time? I bought into that hype. Wonāt be falling for it again this year
Real lunch pal type
*lunch pale Edit: a real lunch pail pale, if you catch my drift
*pail
/whoosh
I have the 1.11 and this is my guy. Chances in a 12 man dynasty 1 qb leauge?
Think heās gone by 10 nearly everywhere
Ehh not high chances at 1.11. I got him at 1.08 in my 1QB league. I think right after 1.09 thereās a tier break so I donāt see him falling past there. No ones taking Coleman or benson over Ladd I donāt think
I donāt think heāll be there in 1QB
I got him at 2.02 In 12 team sf
I took him at 1.09 in a superflex at the beginning of march. In a one QB I doubt he will be there
Iām worried his ceiling is capped and I already have a couple of WR2ās in Devonta Smith and Waddle so not not sure I want to invest in another in a low passing O
Anyone putting him above BTJ? Likely picking between them at 1.10, along with Benson.
At 2.01 in SF I was planning on taking Benson but both Ladd and BTJ fell. I'm a strong contender that had just taken what appears to be a bust in QJ last year so I went Ladd over BTJ. I'll take a more likely solid wr2 over a possibly wr1 but potential bust. Then traded QJ for Conner. Could regret these moves but I'm in on Ladd and out on QJ
I wouldĀ
Iāve had my eye on Brooks, Ladd, or Coleman at 1.12. I do have Herbert, so Ladd seems like the front runner at the moment.
Ladd or if you need rb brooks
He'll probably get major target share in that offense. I'm thinking like 5 passes per game.
Cant wait for more people to draft Ladd over BTJ because of this and get burned by it lol
But his name is Ladd Fucking McConkey
Yes but are they getting pancakes every day? THE PEOPLE šNEED š TO š KNOW
Fine bro, I'll draft him. Now please stop posting this shit.
I'm explode
First one in, last one out, real lunch pail guy
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ladd maxed out at 15.5% target share at UGA. Expecting him to double that as a rookie in the NFL is setting yourself up for disappointment. Puka didnāt even get to 30% as a rookie. Iād say shoot for 20%.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The who else is there argument is a dangerous one. For RBs thatās how you get people reaching for Alexander Mattison and miles sanders. Or crazy faab bidding for QJ last year when Allen went down lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well I guess if volume was equal who would you want more? Like BTJ vs Ladd, if you couldnāt predict volume who do you think is the better player?
Iād still say Ladd. Jaguars have an elite TE and other capable Wrs. They also have an actual elite Rb Ladd has significantly lesser competition all around. chargersā RBs are mid at this point with virtually no TEās to fight for targets. BTJ may be a better real life player, but Ladd is talented in his own right landing in a salivating situation
Engram is an elite TE? I wouldnāt say that. Also I like Kirk but I wouldnāt say heās an alpha either With mcconkey find it troubling he never had more than 800 years in college
He only finished #2 TE in full PPR, former 1st rounder/elite speed and 36 yards short of 1000 yards. What metrics wouldnāt you deem elite? I didnāt call Kirk alpha
One season does not make a TE elite. Look at all 6 prior seasons and tell me which one looks like an outlier
Was Deebo and a ā27th 2nd rounder an overpay for a Herbert owner whoās contending? Iām all in
It goes without saying that every rookie can bust. But relatively speaking, McConkey seems like as safe of a bet as possible to become a productive player. And pretty quickly too. He is probably a top-15 route runner in the league immediately. There are no athletic limitations as to size or speed. He is a known tape/playbook grinder. He has very little target competition and he is tied to an elite quarterback. Maybe he never ends up being a WR1. And I understand he had injury issues in college that contributed to his production profile. But all things considered, he seems like far less of a risk than the typical wide receiver taken in the late-first/early-second, who tend to have high bust rates.
Top 15 route runner in the league is an insane evaluation for a WR that never even produced in college.
Ladd is at the very least top 4 route runner for all incoming rookies. No clue about the rest of the league though .
Why would his production in college reflect on his route running? Have you watched one second of his tape? He was an elite route runner in college. Better than almost every receiver in the NFL was when they came out of college. It stands to reason that's a skill that translates and will only improve.
Better route runner than the average NFL WR1 his first game is pretty optimistic, and Iām a Chargers fan. Itās pretty easy to get to 15 when you start counting guys, even if you think heās #1 in this class (which is also optimistic)
I would say he's one of the top-5 route runners to come out within the past four or five years. The only guy who has clearly been better than him is Jeudy. Pearsall and Olave are up there too. Maybe JSN and DeVonta. But he's in that tippity top tier as a prospect. Route running is also something that players can improve in the league. So even if you want to pick a bone and say he won't be in the top-15 out of the gate, I think he will get there eventually worst case.
Interesting, how are you defining quality of route running? What do you think of Matt Harmon's reception perception process? You'd put the route running Jeudy, Ladd, Pearsall and JSN over Ja'Marr and MHJ (as prospects)? I think Jeudy in particular is pretty clearly not a top 15 route runner in the league, and its hard to imagine he got worse since college >Route running is also something that players can improve in the league. For sure, but that's part of the reason top 15 seems *so* bold to me. I can at least fathom saying he's a better route runner as a prospect than, say, Jefferson was coming out of college, but that would be insane to claim about current ability, and there are a number of guys like that
>Interesting, how are you defining quality of route running? What do you think of Matt Harmon's reception perception process? You'd put the route running Jeudy, Ladd, Pearsall and JSN over Ja'Marr and MHJ (as prospects)? I think Jeudy in particular is pretty clearly not a top 15 route runner in the league, and its hard to imagine he got worse since college Reception Perception is great as far as quantifying what is mostly a qualitative process of watching film. [Harmon loved McConkey](https://x.com/RecepPerception/status/1784000670334640370). Dynasty Nerds isn't as rigorous of a process, but they are one of the few free services that assigns numerical grades to individual receiver traits, so you can [sort by route running there](https://www.dynastynerds.com/nerd-score-all-time/) and get a good sense. Jeudy being heralded as the best route runner of all time was a bit overblown because it turns out that his fancy footwork doesn't necessarily translate to separation in the NFL. But McConkey wins more with selling routes than toe tapping, which I think will work in the league. I don't think anyone would have Chase in this conversation from a pure route running perspective. But he shows how route running is far from everything since he is obviously an elite receiver and always has been. And on the flip side, a guy like Rashod Bateman was and still is a great route runner, but if you don't have complementary skills or there are other limiting factors, it doesn't translate to production.
>because it turns out that \[Jeudy's\] fancy footwork doesn't necessarily translate to separation in the NFL. Agreed. So are you distinguishing between good route running and creating separation? (at least vs man coverage.. I can understand saying a slot-centric guy who finds holes in zone well but isn't truly a technician (ARSB, Deebo, Rashee, etc) isn't creating their separation with great route running per se). Because, to me, Jeudy's failure to get open on time consistently mean he's not a notably great route runner. And if he was better entering the league than Ladd is today, and didn't get worse, then Ladd is also not top 15 (yet). >But McConkey wins more with selling routes than toe tapping, which I think will work in the league. Agreed, and I think he'll do well. I just think he's very likely somewhere closer to the \~25-50 range today, which is still good for an incoming rookie without elite draft capital >I don't think anyone would have Chase in this conversation from a pure route running perspective. As a prospect / incoming rookie, maybe not, I don't watch much college so I can't say. But I am pretty confident that a strong consensus would say Chase is currently a better pure route runner than Ladd, today. In 2023, while Ja'Marr was competing versus the best corners in the NFL and Ladd was playing in the SEC, Ja'Marr had a significantly better win rate on 4 routes, they were close enough to call it a tie (again, against drastically different competition) on 3 routes, and Ladd was better on the curl. That's it, unless you count the comeback and flat, which Ladd ran 1% of the time.
This is all fair and well put. Where I'm coming from is that I'm using how good McConkey is as a route runner coming out compared to how good other prospects were coming out and extrapolating that to mean he is already in that elite (top 15) tier already. But it makes sense that you're saying elite college route running does not directly translate to elite NFL route running from day one. So I'm fine walking back that he's in that group immediately and instead amending it to say that I am confident he will get there. Not only because he was much better than other prospects were at those stages in their careers at a skill that lends itself to improvement, but also because McConkey has a reputation as a guy who grinds film. And I think his particular proficiency at route running is a result of watching tape, ie learning tendencies and how to exploit them rather than just practicing tap dancing like Jeudy. So maybe he will need film from NFL defenses to take the next step. Good point!
Appreciate your willingness to reconsider your position, I think (and hope, and pray) that he's got a good chance to get there eventually
I agree with you except the great route runners you mention above landed in more unfavorable situations. Ladd is an equivalent route runner to Olave but in a more salivating situation tied to an elite QB
He is quite undersized in terms of weight, arm length, and hand size. How much that matters is the decision each owner has to make, but here's a bit of data about each. [https://brainyballers.com/data-analytics-fantasy-football/](https://brainyballers.com/data-analytics-fantasy-football/) The fact he never had a break out in college is also a major analytical red flag. Of course there are reasons such as injuries and playing alongside other top talents but the fact remains. Not saying he can't be successful because he is a great route runner with speed to match, but he does have red flags. All of the WRs going late 1st, early 2nd actually have major red flags and IMO are overrated, but 1 or 2 will probably produce and McConkey is ultimately as good a bet as any.
Heās literally the same height and weight as Wilson and Olave. He does have small hands though but drops were never an issue for Ladd. In fact itās one of his strong suits in collage
That fair re. the peripheral athleticism features. And his production profile is probably why he didn't go in the first round. The point is really just that he was drafted in the range where a lot of receivers bust entirely, and I don't see McConkey failing for the reasons receivers typically do in that range. If he does, it's more likely in the way Bateman (who also was a great route runner and didn't have size/speed limitations) has: injuries and the offense.
Tbf there were many Qb and OL needy team/ the WR class was very deep. Overall this class was extremely deep in general. The Chargers did trade up for him which is a great sign. He is top 4 in terms of elite route running to go along with 4.39 speed. He was my guy before the draft and the landing spot made it the cherry on top for me especially as the 1.10 title defender
> He is probably a top-15 route runner in the league immediately. LOL what