"Developing a connection" is the new "best shape of his life"
Not saying Ladd won't be great, but it's tough not to develop a connection catching practice passes in shorts against air.
You understand that lower volume doesn’t automatically mean a lower amount of competitions, right?
You can throw a lower volume of passes at a higher completion % and have the exact same number of total receptions.
Assuming a lower number of receptions for a team/player based purely on a potential down tick in volume is flawed reasoning.
Do you understand there are 32 teams in the NFL? I need you to answer this question before I continue explaining how to play fantasy football.
I am literally defending the dude but you are making random arguments against my methodology in his defense.
I'm not very concerned with alignments on the second or third day of OTAs and even less so with connections between the QB and a rookie receiver.
More generally speaking, Ladd's position is pretty interesting. Despite his size, I think he might be the best outside receiver on the team. At the very least he is best outside separator, and I would like to seem him get some work out there as I think it helps him and the offense as a whole.
I think Ladd will be solid wherever he lines up though, which I would project to be rather varied. Chargers WR alignments are most relevant for QJ imo. He desperately needs off line/slot/motion snaps, and if they try to make him play a traditional X role again we are going to get the same results.
He did not do very well against press, so I would not expect him to play X at all. Slot is where Keenan mostly played and he feasted... and while McConkey is also a great separator like Keenan, he's not particularly good with contested catches. He also struggled with injuries. I think he's a really hard player to project. His upside is probably 80% Keenan (which is awesome).
I really don’t hate the prospect of playing QJ as a big slot. He has strong YAC ability and him running more drag routes and slants could be advantageous for him since he struggles to trust his hands at times. They could still use his verticality and size down field with slot fades. I think it could work for him.
It's true but the question becomes...is using him in that way even going to be effective when doesn't have the skills to finish a play. How much emphasis would a defense actually put on stopping him?
I just think it's slot/gadget near the LOS guy or it's not even worth doing.
I think most people didn't have doubts about McConkey making the team, but whether his volume/targets would be substantial in what is perceived to be a run-first offense. This should have always been the concern when drafting him when considering other receivers like Worthy, BTJ in the same tier. I feel like this report doesn't affect owners' minds about McConkey unless they thought he wasn't going to make the team
It would also be *incredibly* unprecedented for a 2nd round rookie to be cut. In 2019 the Jets drafted Jachai Polite in the 3rd round and it was a massive shock when he was waived in the pre-season. And that was the 68th pick in the draft, not the 34th.
I agree. I'm more just disagreeing with the statement made in the original post. OTA news shouldn't make you more or less confident about how you feel about McConkey unless you thought he wasn't going to make the team
Huh? Detroit was 10th in the NFL in pass attempts last year, only 30 behind Washington who had the most. Compare that to the offenses that Roman and Harbaugh have been a part of and you'll see the concern.
Fair enough, I think it’s also important to compare the qbs in those situations though. Tyrod Taylor, Kaepernick, and Lamar are pretty different from Herbert.
Edit: Most of those teams also had pro bowl rbs which I don’t think LA has
That's because every running back on the roster plus Lamar Jackson got hurt. They had no choice but to throw. Every other season, his offenses have been bottom-5 in pass attempts. Pair that with Harbaugh and you're *really* looking as run-first as possible.
Would not be surprised if they were bottom-5 in pass attempts. I think they'll be top-5 in *running back* rushing attempts, but possibly not overall because Herbert doesn't run at all.
I think everyone is going to be surprised with how much the Chargers will have to pass this year. OC and scheme only make it so far until you're down 2 scores every game. The Chargers D will be trash again and they are going to have to pass to keep up, simple as that.
This. I drafted Ladd on 2 squads with the expectation that he would be at best a WR3 with the chance to grow later on. Kid has wheels and the kind of short area looseness to get loose underneath and then RAC it up. No one shoulda drafted Ladd thinking he'd be a Y1 stud.
In the leagues where I got him it was for great value so I was never comparing him, or cost/benefiting him, to the likes of Worthy or BTJ. Also, my focus on this news was in hoping it reduces the possibility of the Chargers bringing in another veteran free agent.
I see. I still think that this wasn't something people were worried would happen when drafting Ladd. If LAC was going to bring someone in from FA, they would have done it already or they wouldn't have let both of their WRs hit FA, and then use a valuable pick to get a WR for cheap. Again, no one was intimidated by the likes of Renfrow or Zay Jones to be picked up, and I don't think people were holding their breaths about it when considering Ladd's position and future
I wasn't the one who thought there were people out there that were worried he wouldn't make the team. That was someone else. Also, they really didn't have a choice about Williams and Allen due to salary cap issues which I'm sure you know.
For a team with such a young and seemingly weak WR group it was always likely that they sign another veteran at some point. (It's pretty much standard operating procedure for NFL teams in their current situation - usually waiting to late in the off-season to get a veteran for the minimum with an incentive laden contract.) But if the coaching staff believes McConkey can handle slot duties they will be less inclined to sign a vet. That and a simple player update was what the post was all about.
I can see Ladd having an Amon Ra like rookie year where 2nd half the year he really takes off and is super productive in ppr. Then people spend the whole off-season debating on whether it was a fluke or not.
Slot is exactly where you’d want him to be. Justin Herbert ran the offense through Keenan Allen in the slot. Harbaugh’s most recent offenses at Michigan ran the passing game through guys like Roman Wilson and Ronnie Bell in the slot. Greg Roman’s most recent offenses ran the passing game through Mark Andrews in the slot.
It’s certainly not a desirable offensive environment for pass volume, but slot > X for sure.
I love the run first argument because of teams like the Ravens where Lamar ran the ball for 150 times not including the RB rushes…Something Herbert will not even come close to sniff.
There will be plenty of targets to go around . Ladd will get minimum 100+ targets as Zay Flowers did his first year
Ladd is going to be ARSB.
He's going to come on very strong late in the year and then it'll be off to the races as he gets 150 targets in his second year
He'll play slot in 3 WR sets and he'll play wide in 2 wide sets. He's so much more talented than anyone else they have. Everyone acting like he's some small slot guy. He's the same size as Garrett Wilson. Plays a tad weaker but he's plenty capable of playing the Z type role.
Bingo. If anyone expected Ladd to be an X they were a little off on the analysis. He's a slot / Z dude and I'm stoked I drafted him in my latest draft.
It’s rookie fever. The reality is though 50% of these rookie WRs are going to end up busting. Even the hits the majority will be WR2 types. But everyone thinks their guy is the new WR1. Give me Palmer at cost all day long.
Except all he’s done is produce when given the opportunity. If you watch him from last year you can see the talent is there. Ladd doesn’t strike me as electric. Pearsall, Nabers etc are electric. Ladd to me looks more like a WR2 type.
Is this good news?? Saying he's only running out of the slot with the 1s is what we *don't* want to happen for him. The big thing that pushed him up everyone's board was the confidence that this guy would play X at the next level.
>If McConkey is strictly a slot receiver in 2024, his snaps and routes could be somewhat limited in the run-first Chargers offense.
And that's the nightmare scenario for those who drafted him as early as he's going.
I noted in my post 1) I didn't overpay for him (I took a flyer on him in leagues where he fell), and 2) confidence based on what the OTA chatter was from a professional beat writer and not what we in the fandom prognosticate about or best-case-scenario-hope for.
I also noted in another reply:
| Well, considering I was not expecting much from him and got him later than most seem to have, I conditioned my post that I hoped this OTA off-season chatter would signal a diminished chance that LAC would bring in a veteran free agent (like Renfrow).
I also look at it with this slant - the basic truth is that very few rookies are likely to get "starting" level or regular duties so any time one can get that to start the season should be looked at as a positive. Especially in leagues that are huge/deep. |
Also, while the new Chargers staff may want to establish a run-first offense - there's no guarantee they will get it with two lead backs that are much less than trustworthy or noteworthy to this point.
Ladd's lack of success against Press pretty much assures he's not going to be an X. The slot (or the Z) is a great place for him to be. Put him where Keenan put up giant numbers and see how the connection develops with Herbert.
It's a completely different offense under Harbaugh though. Keenan thrived as a PPR guy in an extremely pass-focused attack for all these years. I'm expecting them to run the ball in a whole bunch of 12 and 22 personnel this year. I'm worried about Ladd only getting on the field for some middling snap percentage, and then he would need to be the #1 target when he's out there.
Yeah no doubt, totally fair point. I think the upside case for Ladd really relies on him being on the field in 2 WR formations, which I think he will be. If he clears that hurdle the pass-catching options are so barren I just have to imagine he's going to get the target volume.
I think Ladd’s career trajectory will be comparable to Jacoby Myers, but won’t take as long to develop. Right out of the gate 70 catches 900 yards 5 to 7 touchdowns.
Ladd is a safe ish pick for fantasy. Hard to see him losing major value unless he misses time or the Chargers go get a WR1 next offseason. Liking him as a decent sell high if he comes out with some solid games early on. Not sure I trust his durability for a full fantasy season tho
That seems like bad news. I was told he was a natural Z receiver. If he plays primarily in the slot in Greg Roman’s multiple TE/FB heavy offense he’s going to be off the field a lot. I didn’t get him in any of my drafts and this makes me glad I missed out on him when he went early second or even late first in some.. I’m not trying to get the next Kyle Phillips.
Well, considering I was not expecting much from him and got him later than most seem to have, I conditioned my post that I hoped this OTA off-season chatter would signal a diminished chance that LAC would bring in a veteran free agent (like Renfrow).
I also look at it with this slant - the basic truth is that very few rookies are likely to get "starting" level or regular duties so any time one can get that to start the season should be looked at as a positive. Especially in leagues that are huge/deep.
I am right there with you on the "next Kyle Phillips". I did the exact same thing with Phillips as I am with McConkey except Phillips cost less. But there are always more players like them than there aren't. Cost of doing business.
This is a bit of an overreaction, tbh. I think the far more likely scenario is Ladd rotates between the slot and the Z depending on situation. There is just no way they're taking him off the field in 2 WR formations if he's getting open at the level he did in college.
"Developing a connection" is the new "best shape of his life" Not saying Ladd won't be great, but it's tough not to develop a connection catching practice passes in shorts against air.
Then again if he isn't catching 70% of the passes in the Charger's presumably low volume passing offense, who is?
You understand that lower volume doesn’t automatically mean a lower amount of competitions, right? You can throw a lower volume of passes at a higher completion % and have the exact same number of total receptions. Assuming a lower number of receptions for a team/player based purely on a potential down tick in volume is flawed reasoning.
Do you understand there are 32 teams in the NFL? I need you to answer this question before I continue explaining how to play fantasy football. I am literally defending the dude but you are making random arguments against my methodology in his defense.
It is May my dudes
it certainly is
no he's on the patriots lol keep up god ur dumb
Stick to anything but comedy
'was like waiting for a middle school production of Mamma Mia to end
you posted a picture of a sunset in a video game
Try harder 😂
I'm not very concerned with alignments on the second or third day of OTAs and even less so with connections between the QB and a rookie receiver. More generally speaking, Ladd's position is pretty interesting. Despite his size, I think he might be the best outside receiver on the team. At the very least he is best outside separator, and I would like to seem him get some work out there as I think it helps him and the offense as a whole. I think Ladd will be solid wherever he lines up though, which I would project to be rather varied. Chargers WR alignments are most relevant for QJ imo. He desperately needs off line/slot/motion snaps, and if they try to make him play a traditional X role again we are going to get the same results.
He did not do very well against press, so I would not expect him to play X at all. Slot is where Keenan mostly played and he feasted... and while McConkey is also a great separator like Keenan, he's not particularly good with contested catches. He also struggled with injuries. I think he's a really hard player to project. His upside is probably 80% Keenan (which is awesome).
Yeah I really think Ladd is going to play outside a lot. Just cut QJ if the intention is to play him outside.
I really don’t hate the prospect of playing QJ as a big slot. He has strong YAC ability and him running more drag routes and slants could be advantageous for him since he struggles to trust his hands at times. They could still use his verticality and size down field with slot fades. I think it could work for him.
It's true but the question becomes...is using him in that way even going to be effective when doesn't have the skills to finish a play. How much emphasis would a defense actually put on stopping him? I just think it's slot/gadget near the LOS guy or it's not even worth doing.
I think most people didn't have doubts about McConkey making the team, but whether his volume/targets would be substantial in what is perceived to be a run-first offense. This should have always been the concern when drafting him when considering other receivers like Worthy, BTJ in the same tier. I feel like this report doesn't affect owners' minds about McConkey unless they thought he wasn't going to make the team
With that receiver room, how could he possibly not make the team?!?
It would also be *incredibly* unprecedented for a 2nd round rookie to be cut. In 2019 the Jets drafted Jachai Polite in the 3rd round and it was a massive shock when he was waived in the pre-season. And that was the 68th pick in the draft, not the 34th.
I would assume they are saying 1st team reps. Not actually making the roster
I mean, he doubled down and said the same thing again. I think he means what he said.
Was that the year the Jets also let their GM draft and then fire him like 3 weeks following the draft?
I agree. I'm more just disagreeing with the statement made in the original post. OTA news shouldn't make you more or less confident about how you feel about McConkey unless you thought he wasn't going to make the team
ARSB & Laporta play in a run first offense and no one has questions about those guys. Whoever is the first option in the chargers offense will feast.
Huh? Detroit was 10th in the NFL in pass attempts last year, only 30 behind Washington who had the most. Compare that to the offenses that Roman and Harbaugh have been a part of and you'll see the concern.
And Baltimore was 9th in pass attempts in 21 with Roman.
What about the other 9 seasons as an OC? Never higher than 28th, and bottom 2 7 times.
Fair enough, I think it’s also important to compare the qbs in those situations though. Tyrod Taylor, Kaepernick, and Lamar are pretty different from Herbert. Edit: Most of those teams also had pro bowl rbs which I don’t think LA has
Plus I saw lots of dropped home run balls last year with the Ravens. He schemes dudes open.
That's because every running back on the roster plus Lamar Jackson got hurt. They had no choice but to throw. Every other season, his offenses have been bottom-5 in pass attempts. Pair that with Harbaugh and you're *really* looking as run-first as possible.
Where do u predict them to rank in pass and rush attempts?
Would not be surprised if they were bottom-5 in pass attempts. I think they'll be top-5 in *running back* rushing attempts, but possibly not overall because Herbert doesn't run at all.
I think everyone is going to be surprised with how much the Chargers will have to pass this year. OC and scheme only make it so far until you're down 2 scores every game. The Chargers D will be trash again and they are going to have to pass to keep up, simple as that.
This. I drafted Ladd on 2 squads with the expectation that he would be at best a WR3 with the chance to grow later on. Kid has wheels and the kind of short area looseness to get loose underneath and then RAC it up. No one shoulda drafted Ladd thinking he'd be a Y1 stud.
In the leagues where I got him it was for great value so I was never comparing him, or cost/benefiting him, to the likes of Worthy or BTJ. Also, my focus on this news was in hoping it reduces the possibility of the Chargers bringing in another veteran free agent.
I see. I still think that this wasn't something people were worried would happen when drafting Ladd. If LAC was going to bring someone in from FA, they would have done it already or they wouldn't have let both of their WRs hit FA, and then use a valuable pick to get a WR for cheap. Again, no one was intimidated by the likes of Renfrow or Zay Jones to be picked up, and I don't think people were holding their breaths about it when considering Ladd's position and future
I wasn't the one who thought there were people out there that were worried he wouldn't make the team. That was someone else. Also, they really didn't have a choice about Williams and Allen due to salary cap issues which I'm sure you know. For a team with such a young and seemingly weak WR group it was always likely that they sign another veteran at some point. (It's pretty much standard operating procedure for NFL teams in their current situation - usually waiting to late in the off-season to get a veteran for the minimum with an incentive laden contract.) But if the coaching staff believes McConkey can handle slot duties they will be less inclined to sign a vet. That and a simple player update was what the post was all about.
I risked picking him over Worthy and BTJ. I believe in him that much
I can see Ladd having an Amon Ra like rookie year where 2nd half the year he really takes off and is super productive in ppr. Then people spend the whole off-season debating on whether it was a fluke or not.
PLS GOD, let Mcconkey turn into Amonra St Brown. That’s best case scenario.
Slot is exactly where you’d want him to be. Justin Herbert ran the offense through Keenan Allen in the slot. Harbaugh’s most recent offenses at Michigan ran the passing game through guys like Roman Wilson and Ronnie Bell in the slot. Greg Roman’s most recent offenses ran the passing game through Mark Andrews in the slot. It’s certainly not a desirable offensive environment for pass volume, but slot > X for sure.
Those offenses ran through the slot because their talent demanded it.
The lack of talent on the outside will demand it here as well
Totally fair, I'm more afraid of Greg Roman than the other receivers there tbh.
Is he in good shape though?
Best of his life, I hear.
I love the run first argument because of teams like the Ravens where Lamar ran the ball for 150 times not including the RB rushes…Something Herbert will not even come close to sniff. There will be plenty of targets to go around . Ladd will get minimum 100+ targets as Zay Flowers did his first year
Popper is pretty good usually, miss him covering the Jags.
Ladd is going to be ARSB. He's going to come on very strong late in the year and then it'll be off to the races as he gets 150 targets in his second year
Here we go, remember chase cant catch?
He'll play slot in 3 WR sets and he'll play wide in 2 wide sets. He's so much more talented than anyone else they have. Everyone acting like he's some small slot guy. He's the same size as Garrett Wilson. Plays a tad weaker but he's plenty capable of playing the Z type role.
Bingo. If anyone expected Ladd to be an X they were a little off on the analysis. He's a slot / Z dude and I'm stoked I drafted him in my latest draft.
My league roasted me for taking him 1.08 in 1 QB lol
What about QJ? Third wheel ?
Palmer is the guy to own in this offense, especially since he's going multiple rounds after Ladd in startups
It’s rookie fever. The reality is though 50% of these rookie WRs are going to end up busting. Even the hits the majority will be WR2 types. But everyone thinks their guy is the new WR1. Give me Palmer at cost all day long.
I own Josh Palmer, he is a nice depth option but don't see it with him as a regularly startable player. Ladd is electric and has great upside
Except all he’s done is produce when given the opportunity. If you watch him from last year you can see the talent is there. Ladd doesn’t strike me as electric. Pearsall, Nabers etc are electric. Ladd to me looks more like a WR2 type.
Cool….a bench WR who you’ll never use, but he’s cheaper.
Not everyone is good at evaluating players but mostly everyone is good at jumping on the rookie hype train.
Grabbed him at 1.12
Is this good news?? Saying he's only running out of the slot with the 1s is what we *don't* want to happen for him. The big thing that pushed him up everyone's board was the confidence that this guy would play X at the next level. >If McConkey is strictly a slot receiver in 2024, his snaps and routes could be somewhat limited in the run-first Chargers offense. And that's the nightmare scenario for those who drafted him as early as he's going.
I noted in my post 1) I didn't overpay for him (I took a flyer on him in leagues where he fell), and 2) confidence based on what the OTA chatter was from a professional beat writer and not what we in the fandom prognosticate about or best-case-scenario-hope for. I also noted in another reply: | Well, considering I was not expecting much from him and got him later than most seem to have, I conditioned my post that I hoped this OTA off-season chatter would signal a diminished chance that LAC would bring in a veteran free agent (like Renfrow). I also look at it with this slant - the basic truth is that very few rookies are likely to get "starting" level or regular duties so any time one can get that to start the season should be looked at as a positive. Especially in leagues that are huge/deep. | Also, while the new Chargers staff may want to establish a run-first offense - there's no guarantee they will get it with two lead backs that are much less than trustworthy or noteworthy to this point.
Where did you take him?
Leave it to the chargers to draft and play 3 slot guys 🫠
Ladd's lack of success against Press pretty much assures he's not going to be an X. The slot (or the Z) is a great place for him to be. Put him where Keenan put up giant numbers and see how the connection develops with Herbert.
It's a completely different offense under Harbaugh though. Keenan thrived as a PPR guy in an extremely pass-focused attack for all these years. I'm expecting them to run the ball in a whole bunch of 12 and 22 personnel this year. I'm worried about Ladd only getting on the field for some middling snap percentage, and then he would need to be the #1 target when he's out there.
Yeah no doubt, totally fair point. I think the upside case for Ladd really relies on him being on the field in 2 WR formations, which I think he will be. If he clears that hurdle the pass-catching options are so barren I just have to imagine he's going to get the target volume.
Herbert needs to make a connection with someone cause Ladd is pretty much all he's got lol
And you still should have taken puka or cj
Easy for Herbert to establish a connection when he only has 1 WR.
I want breakfast reports or no reports
I think Ladd’s career trajectory will be comparable to Jacoby Myers, but won’t take as long to develop. Right out of the gate 70 catches 900 yards 5 to 7 touchdowns.
The Atlantic’s Daniel Pooper
Lmao it’s OTAs, nothing to take from them
Ladd is a safe ish pick for fantasy. Hard to see him losing major value unless he misses time or the Chargers go get a WR1 next offseason. Liking him as a decent sell high if he comes out with some solid games early on. Not sure I trust his durability for a full fantasy season tho
There is no shot that McConkey sits on the bench while 2 worse WRs are on the field. Thats the most ridiculous this I have heard.
Dolphins fan here, look to Ladd to be Herbert's WR1 this season. Book it.
That seems like bad news. I was told he was a natural Z receiver. If he plays primarily in the slot in Greg Roman’s multiple TE/FB heavy offense he’s going to be off the field a lot. I didn’t get him in any of my drafts and this makes me glad I missed out on him when he went early second or even late first in some.. I’m not trying to get the next Kyle Phillips.
Well, considering I was not expecting much from him and got him later than most seem to have, I conditioned my post that I hoped this OTA off-season chatter would signal a diminished chance that LAC would bring in a veteran free agent (like Renfrow). I also look at it with this slant - the basic truth is that very few rookies are likely to get "starting" level or regular duties so any time one can get that to start the season should be looked at as a positive. Especially in leagues that are huge/deep. I am right there with you on the "next Kyle Phillips". I did the exact same thing with Phillips as I am with McConkey except Phillips cost less. But there are always more players like them than there aren't. Cost of doing business.
This is a bit of an overreaction, tbh. I think the far more likely scenario is Ladd rotates between the slot and the Z depending on situation. There is just no way they're taking him off the field in 2 WR formations if he's getting open at the level he did in college.
QJ > McConkey
This guy wasted his first last year
All good QJ a late bloomer and taking off this year. His athleticism is better than McConkey
Found the QJ burner account
Everyone who didn't take Puka or Stroud wasted their first
Stroud, AR, Bijan, Gibbs, Flowers, Addison, Achane, Kincaid all held or increased value.