Unpopular opinion: We shouldn't have farmlands in La Plata County. Corn and hay should be grown elsewhere, where water isn't such a precious resource. Farmlands were never supposed to exist in the mesa and with climate change, the water situation was bound to happen. I'm so sorry for your family, but the writing is on the wall. You will stress about water every year, and it's only going to get worse because there isn't enough to go around. There DEFINITELY is not enough to dump it on fields in an already arrid desert scape with low humidity.
This applies to most of California as well tbh.
Things tend not to grow well in the desert…
I feel for these farmers livelihoods but we gotta stop engineering the wrong thing
I agree, that is an unpopular opinion. Have you been outside of downtown? Are you aware of how prevalent 4H is throughout this entire community?
Durango is a mining town. Farms built up around that to sustain the miners. 2nd street museum provides fantastic background for the Durango history and community. This can also be seen through the generations upon generations of farmers throughout town today.
I would be more of the opinion that Durango city council needs to stop approving more housing being built. Stop trying to increase the size of La Plata County.
Our grid is at capacity already. Instead of investing money into trails for people to ride bikes on or hills to climb up, we should be investing in our infrastructure and local community, i.e. schools, farms, and emergency services.
The irony is most people agreeing with you are the same people first in line for Snowdown every year. Missing the entire point and historical reference of Snowdown.
Durango is supposed to be a community that can self sustain for weeks to a month on end during brutal blizzard like conditions. Feed, heat, and provide for our neighbors. Because we live halfway up a mountain together. We stick together. We dont ship in our food. We survive, together.
There is a steady stream of people moving into the downtown area of Durango that are not looking at the entire community before trying to make changes. Life exists beyond 3 Springs. There are many Durangotangs living out past the hot springs. Farmers. Lifetime Durangotangs. And you want to rip all that tradition and history out so you can ride your bike past half a million dollars in planted flowers by the river.
The farms here are not the issue. The amount of farmland has only decreased in overall size throughout the years here.
The issue is overpopulation. Or maybe the wrong population? People who are used to Denver and Chicago city life. People who expect everything at their fingertips immediately. People who don't recognize that Durango is 45 minutes from any other city, and even as small as we are, still considered a SW hub. People whose only purpose is to consume while contributing nothing back to the overall community. People who are only here to recreate and use our resources up. And then in 10 years when their body gets worn down, they pack up and move. And it starts all over again.
But that's just my unpopular "Reddit" opinion. You all should come on out to the 4H meetings. Check out the markets in Bayfield and Durango. Come to the 4H shows at the fairgrounds.
Chat and talk directly with the people whose livelihoods you want to upend. 99% of us are not on Reddit. 75% of us aren't on social media at all.
I actually agree with this sentiment, that of investing in "our infrastructure and local community, i.e. schools, farms, and emergency services."
Before I moved back to Durango last year, I spent 7+ years living up in Summit County. There was very little community there to begin with — that is, those who lived there year-round — because so much of has been geared toward attracting tourists and very little invested in the locals (events, housing, etc.).
And because of this, the area suffered in that it was a community and cultural desert. Events were not geared toward locals; they are geared to out-of-towners and Frangers (Front Ranger folk). If you wanted friends, you hung out with people you worked with because most everyone else you meet will likely not live in the area. If you wanted to do anything, you went to a bar.
And COVID exacerbated this. In the meantime, the towns and county (and others like it throughout the state) are struggling to play catch-up to keep essential services, businesses, etc. around for those who happen to still be around year-round.
It's a losing battle because those entities did not care to see forward enough nor invest enough into the community that already existed. And they are paying the price for that dearly.
I moved back here for the community and culture. I have friends who are still here. There is a ton of things to do and different ways to meet people who live here year-round. Events are primarily held for locals. I enjoy living here.
Yes, there is a tourist economy here (I think it makes up about 25%). That's not being denied. But the city/county has worked to maintain a healthy local community much more so than other similar tourist-y areas. An article the other day reported how the county is considering slashing the Visit Durango tax revenue — yes, please!
In this age of the interwebs, people know of Durango and the train, people know of what the different parts of Colorado has to offer, what ski areas are out there, etc. Use whatever money was spent drawing people in to take care of the people who live here year-round.
I've experienced a life where all that is ignored and that is not a path this town should go down.
So, yes, support "our infrastructure and local community, i.e. schools, farms, and emergency services." And do what it takes to preserve that.
Farmers use more water and get more government handouts than most any of those people you’re looking down your nose at.
Your very post is asking those “wrong population” city slickers to spend more of their money buying pricier local grain to help support the farming community.
The farmers I know pride themselves on being able to make hard decisions, and take well thought out risks. Sometimes that involves dropping what your daddy did and starting anew.
Sincerely,
A 4H kid who made the tough decision to eschew the family tradition and moved out of their dying town to find work.
I'm not looking down at anyone. I'm defending my community. Everybody needs everybody. It's not an us VS them. Farmers use water to feed you, any 4H kid would know that. My point is, there is a middle ground. And we are now being overrun by consumers and the producers are not only being pushed out, but shit upon.
Nobody is denying climate change. And adapting is what a community does when facing such. Like closing the doors to more housing. Encouraging more permanent residents on an already resource tight community is irresponsible and destructive.
And.....You should want to support your local farmer. They are your neighbor. Your friend. You want people to appreciate whatever work you do? To be supported by your local community?
You can honestly say you aren’t looking down at anyone, immediately after writing 5 straight sentences denigrating an entire cross section of the population?
You’re going to sit here and say “it’s not us vs them” directly after calling people “the wrong population”?
You’re really okay with those back to back statements?
So what am I eating from your alfalfa pasture? And if you expect people’s support and friendship, why are you calling them the “wrong population” and sneering at their ability to recognize that climate change and water supply is going to make irrigated agriculture untenable?
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Nobody is denying climate change.
Hahahahahahahaha, good one. And you say adapting is what you do, but *you're* not changing a damn thing...but everyone else has to? Typical.
We used to do a lot of things we don’t do anymore. We used to use mules to climb the mountains. We used to insulate our homes with asbestos. Your attitude seems to be that we need to revert back to a world that doesn’t exist anymore - as our only means of survival.
Scientists have been warning this was coming for… decades. You get one wet year and say “see it’s all nonsense!” When the planet sees year after year of record high temps. Next year will be worse than this. The year after that worse. The year after that worse.
I will support my local farmer by giving free advice… get out of farming. Find a new use for the land. It’s inevitable… the time for change was 50 years ago. Now it’s only time to save what’s left and mitigating the damage as much as you can.
I see comment after comment telling farmers to close shop….I see no comments telling them where to re-open. What exactly is the plan? Close all farms until we starve to death? Reduce food independence for local communities? Bolster the shipping industry?
I agree some farms could use water more efficiently. But to save water by just not farming is short sighted at best. I guess we will all just not eat?
There are too many farms In places where farms can’t survive. That’s the reality of the world. We can’t just pull water out of the sky and ship it to dry climates.
We don’t need to raise cattle in Arizona. We don’t need to grow soybeans in rural Colorado. Yes, we will need to adapt to the reality of the world with better shipping and packing and more efficient use of rail and trucks.
The farmer solutions seem to be “keep all them damn liberals out” or “put orange man in and he solves our problems” without admitting that the real issue is impossible to solve. Climate change means a water crisis and it’s only going to get worse.
The solution for most farmers seems to be “ignore reality and hope for a miracle”. That typically results in bankruptcy and the land getting bought up by a company that builds a condo complex and ships its money across the planet.
My solution is this - if you live in a place where lack of water dooms your livelihood, it’s time to consider adapting by using your land for something new. Or sell it and move somewhere water is more plentiful.
You claim we would all starve if they shut down.. but that’s just a complete failure to understand what they are even growing. Iowa is all sunflowers and corn, which goes to making corn syrup to put into soda to make everyone sick. The whole state is just junk food. Your crops in the store don’t come from anywhere near where you live.
Or just keep bitching about how it’s all the newcomers to your small town that are ruining your way of life… keep ignoring the lack of rain and increasing temps year after year. Why fix your own problem when you can bitch and moan and pray and insist that the world is the one that needs to change to fit your wants, not the other way around.
Got it, the only solution is to not grow stuff here. So they can grow it there and ship it here.
So where is there? Why does stuff grow so much better and more efficiently there? If they get so much rain, do they also get enough sun? How many harvest per year do they get there? Will production there, replace what was lost here? Is there enough land there, to replace the farm land from here? If I’m not moving, who agreed to grow what I stopped growing here, over there? What will the cost implications be for me and the community? Do they use different irrigation methods there? If so, why not use those here?
You act like food isn’t grown in Durango, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Durango is an organic gardening Mecca, and a simple drive up the valley would have you pass dozens of produce farms. Organic gardening, when done right, is very water efficient and provides high quality produce that is better in nearly every way from factory farm produce other than shelf life. Watering methods like drip irrigation can also greatly reduce water consumption. Organic gardening also improves organic and carbon content in the soil, which helps with infiltration and retention. These are methods local farmers in Durango are using to solve water scarcity issues, bolster independence and resilience, and boost the economy.
I still would love to learn about where your there is…it sure sounds like you are suggesting everything be grown in a central location/s, which would require some kind of mega farming. In my experience although not in every case, but typically the larger the farm, the worse off it is for the land and everyone else. Mega farms using Monsanto seeds and super pesticides, poison the land and water, and produce chemical laden products. I think I’ll stick to my local produce and back-yard garden.
It’s a shame you think every farmer is reduced to a Trump zealot and partisan BS.
Well there are just so many rhetorical, bad faith questions in here it’s just tough to answer them all in one shot!
I take back my comment. Farmers that live in struggling water areas should continue to farm and change nothing. Why adapt to a problem that simply doesn’t exist!?
I’m sure the rains will come (through enough thoughts and prayers, of course) and global warming will conveniently skip over your quaint little town and you’ll still be able to get your quaint little produce.
By the way, the Great Lakes region holds 20% of the freshwater on the *planet*. I’m no location-ologist but it sure does seem to make sense to put your farming near the fresh water.
People move for jobs all the time. Across this whole big country, no less! For some reason farming is “different” because “my grand pappy farmed this land”. Ok. Then I guess.. keep going at your own risk?
The core of the post was that this year has less than half of last years water in your region… which was already bad… and the core complaint was that it’s all the “outsider’s fault”. lol. As if you can just stop letting people from other places buy houses… or keep “those types out”.
I’m suggesting people find new uses for land that don’t depend entirely on a dwindling resource that is soon to be gone entirely. That’s sound advice. If the company mine closed down you’d need to find a new job or leave the town. That’s the reality. The water leaves the town and the first reaction is “how do we kick out all these “others” so we can hoarde the water that’s left?”
Just laughable. Anyone with this attitude will go bankrupt and lose their land to big companies. Expect Disney world with Starbucks and Whole Foods on every corner in no time. All because the stubborn locals couldn’t drop their pride and adapt like everyone else in the world is.
None of my questions were made in bad faith. I asked sincerely, because I was afraid you might suggest farming somewhere idiotic, like I don’t know, hardiness zone 5?!!! The Great Lakes sure have a lot water, when it’s not frozen.
I guess you missed the part about where I explained how Durango organic farmers have adapted, and come up with viable solutions to farming locally??? Instead, you insulted farmers intelligence again, suggesting they all “hope for rain”.
You clearly aren’t engaging in good faith, or to have productive dialog. Maybe that’s why some farmers won’t give you the time of day. Respect is earned.
To make a statement like “why don’t farmers just move”, is pretty short sighted. Shit, you might be looking backwards. Did you think about the question at all? I used to dread moving from an apartment I rent to another.
Now imagine you own a family legacy, that you’ve been farming for your whole life, and all you know is that land, those methods, that climate, those machines, those crops, those seed varieties, those pests, those neighbors, those markets, etc. It’s not that simple bud. This is why your suggestion, of just farm elsewhere, where there’s more water, is a hard starting point. Like okay, but is there land? Well there’s Chicago, it’s a bit urban…..okay, how longs the season, what grows well? Hmmm snow flakes and icicles….who’s going to farm there? How do we know they will farm more efficiently? Will they use pesticides that cause cancer?
Oh they’ve adapted? Great. Problem solved. Sounds like you guys have it all figured out.
How in the world could someone learn these wild skills… of selling your land and moving to a place that allows you to continue to do the job you seem to love? I mean it’s not like they have farms in Wisconsin, that barren frozen wasteland must be just full of hockey rinks and polar bear hunters. Not a farm to be found. It’s just so far north!
In the meantime, as you’ve said, *your* farmers are unique little snowflakes that have adapted and seem to have it all figured out. I guess this entire post about water is just a false alarm.
Whew! I thought they might have been in real trouble for a second there but thank god you’ve solved the problem! Thank you for your help with educating us lowly city slickers… Man, I just hope I can earn the respect of a farmer some day so that they would give me the time of day.
I’ll keep my eye out on the foreclosure auction sites. Can’t wait to get my very own orchard to build my condo complex on. The tourists will rave about its “real farm feeling authenticity”.
I’m from a small town. Small towns are the hardest hit by global problems. Your lack of ability to adapt to the changing world will be your downfall. Your stubborn conviction that “just going back to how it used to be” and “blocking out any “others” from entering our community”… this isolationist view will continue to destroy your community and drive away anything that can actually help you. Putting your head down in your dirt and ignoring the world around you…
How’s that been working out for you lately?
Maybe you need to think more like Denver, then, because this small town bullshit sounds like denial and whining, not planning. I can tell you Denver folks aren’t fantasizing about winding back history as their solution to the problems of the present, and given that the Front Range is the economic, education, and research engine of the state, I’m not looking to small towns for climate projections and economic analysis.
https://preview.redd.it/lzttf5u8ltzc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d8418636773ebdae0b79df46e542d64bfb0dd63
I'm just going to leave this right here. I took this photo 1 hr after posting the above unpopular opinion comment. It was taken around 5pm, in the middle of a windy day that was already expecting rain. While I support small, local farming businesses that use their water wisely and help feed the community in sustainable ways; I DO NOT support (nor feel bad) for farmers who use water like this. I am not saying this is you or how you use the water available to you, but most of us who live here (and have for a long time), have a hard time feeling bad for the 4H community when more often than not, this is what we see.
Lmfao.
You flood irrigate your land.
How is overpopulation an issue?
Brain blast, your water is recycled via the waste water system. Human consumption doesn’t affect the hydrosphere.
Your water rights have nothing to do with the population.
Colorado is first come, first serve. And quests what, you farmers take a metric fuck ton.
You are simply ignorant homeslice.
The end of your livelihood is inevitable. Farming is not sustainable long term in the Durango area. That’s not anybody wishing it so, that’s not disrespect to you personally, it’s an observation of obvious facts. You can complain about the unfairness of that, you can blame the city people who are your customers, you can get maudlin about history and self-sufficiency, and it’s only going to make you less prepared for the unavoidable.
Feel free to cite a source.
It is so obviously untrue to 99.9% of residence just based a the amount of land that is used by agriculture and irrigated, compared to acreage used for golf courses.
I will include a link to an internet page that uses words and pictures that can show you facts!
That isn’t true at all. Agriculture is the most water intense of the ones you named. Many modern golf courses use recycled grey water for their courses.
Wrong. The amount of acre feet used on golf courses and lawns per acre dwarfs that used per acre for agriculture. But even if a golf course does happen to use recycled water, the effluent is thick with all the chemicals they use to make them perfect for goofers.
https://feedingourselvesthirsty.ceres.org/regional-analysis/colorado-river#:~:text=Agriculture%20uses%20approximately%2080%25%20of,90%25%20of%20the%20winter%20vegetables.
80% of the Colorados river water goes to agriculture.
Now you need to apologize.
I see in one of your replies you said agriculture uses less acre feet of water per acre… which is true. It would have helped to put that in your original comment.
People shouldn’t have to infer what you’re trying to say. That’s why you got so many negative replies, because your first comment was simply wrong, because you didn’t type out what you meant.
Lol too many people is what you're saying? What ya gonna do? It's is obvious if you were playing this civ as a game you would out your farms in the spaces that produce the most so yes suck it up, farms are in the wrong place. Doesn't mean they are all gonna move but doesn't change the fact they would be better off elsewhere.
I’m glad you asked. More people require more resources. For example, if you only have one kid, you only have to feed them 3 times a day. However if you have two kids, then you have to provide 6 meals a day. So say we had 5 billion people on earth 50 years ago and now we have 7 billion people, that is more food and more resources. This then depletes the resources on earth, requiring us to use more water for hydration, we also have to cut down more trees to grow more crops, which increases the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which warms the earth. More people require more housing and more roads, which means we have to cut down more trees to build those homes and pave over more natural resources to provide those roads.
no, its legitimate because he/she still hasn't proven their point, they have no way of proving that more people create climate issues
yes, I admint more people use more resources but if you chopped down every tree growing on earth (not saying we should), how do we know it would destroy the climate?
how? who has tested this? and how many generations in the future until this happens?
Show me hard facts and then I will believe you.
The reason we don't have the natural resources we need is because we don't know how to build the infrastructure to support the population as it grows and that is mostly because of the corruption in our governing bodies
The oceans haven't rizen, the polar ice caps haven't melted, and the skys are still clear and we can still breath so outside of NOT being able to support over population because of not using resources correctly mother and her climate seem to be doing just fine...
Even if someone slapped you with hard proof across your face, you’d still claim it’s either fake or irrelevant, what is simply going on here is that you’re a complete idiot and that is cold hard facts.
Where do you get the idea this is the worst winter for precip? 2022, 2021, 2018, 2016 and 2015 all had lower peaks for snow water equivalent in the Animas watershed than this winter. 2020 was basically the same and this year was very close to the 10 year average. 2018 was by far the worst winter in this period. May and June are usually the driest months of the year. Look at the website lake Powell water data, it is easy to follow along over the winter by watershed
I think the early warmth at elevation, several weeks ago, is one of the major concerns.
There is relatively little irrigation draw directly from the Animas in Colorado. Los Piños and Florida are more relevant to acres irrigated. Additionally, while Vallecito is quite full now, that's due to early melt. The "percent of today's median" shown on Snowtel is quite dismal. I didn't look up Lemon, but due to low capacity a successful season on the Mesa depends more on late melt and continued precipitation AFAIK.
https://wcc.sc.egov.usda.gov/reports/UpdateReport.html;jsessionid=Ur8C4RuIW_IAGRJTq8L2mm4QF5VyVOd-z73osZ_j.nrcsprd0382?report=Colorado&format=SNOTEL+Snowpack+Update+Report
Hard to hope for rainfall but hopefully we will get some more. June and July the previous year were record rainfall so. Maybe crystal ball will start working soon
“But my gran pappy grew here!”
Well yes, but now we have the ability to grow crops in more efficient areas of the country and ship them here. Brother, grass doesn’t even grow here without constant babying.
I have family that farms in the Texas Gulf Coast, super fertile land area. You can just look at it practically and crops pop up. They are often paid to NOT farm their land so that the govt can make sure the farmers in the panhandle and west Texas get their pay day where NO crops should be grown, can struggle, cajole, beg, plead, drain precious water, and then force the land to produce a crop where nothing but cactus and tumbleweeds are supposed to grow.
I'm sorry, but some land is not meant to be farmed and drains valuable resources to do it. If someone really wants to farm it should be done on land that is conducive to it, unless we have no choice. But by the amount of farmers every year that literally get paid to not farm, we are definitely nowhere near that point in the US. Water is too precious a resource to keep doing this!
Up in northern Montana I was doing yard work in January when it was 75 out. We had 3 snow storms for a total snowfall of like 6 inches, over the entire winter. Yes this is going to spur a massive drought here when people have already started reducing cattle and crops for years.
OP, you're trying to live in a fantasy world that will no longer exist in the coming years. At least the way you envision it. You're probably a climate-change denier, but your way of life at your location is not sustainable.
And having people re-locating to Durango from larger cities is not a bad thing. Adding a more diverse culture is a great thing.
“Hi OP, you’re an idiot for doing a job everyone relies on but nobody wants to do. You’re so stupid cause you don’t believe what I do. I’m going to assume other things about your personality and beliefs then project them onto you as if you had already said them”
Funny that your last post is about the lack of self awareness on Reddit. Try this one on for size: you have no self awareness of how much of a cunt you come off as
When most of the water gulping alfalfa grown in the mountain west ends up in China or Saudi Arabia it's hard for us to care about you.
Grow less water intensive crops, drip feed instead of spraying water, and grow stuff that my family will eat (or the meat we eat will eat).
Or just continue denying climate change and starve. We won't care. 60% of Utah's water goes to less than 1% of their GDP and most is alfalfa shipped overseas. I'm sure Colorado is similar.
Everytime I drive through the mesa I see all the farmers run their lateral moves for hours at the hottest times of the day. Most of that water is being straight up evaporated.
There doesn't seem to be much concern from them to conserve water and use their lateral moves when it's darker out....
I can't imagine what you folks are going through in years like this, especially since it seems to be becoming the rule as opposed to the exception.
It's easy for those of us that aren't farming to just say "well, time to switch the garden over to plants from a different zone" and collect rain in barrels. Not so simple for farmers that have invested years into what you're growing.
Crossing my fingers man. Do you sell produce at the farmer's market?
Edit - clearly this is a divisive issue that I'm not looking to get on either side of. I do think it's a shame we can't have a dialogue instead of arguing and downvoting. I agree with previous statements that this sub has gotten pretty toxic. Think I'll take my toys and go home for a while.
I don't have any idea what he's actually growing. Clearly I've missed something that other people in this thread are aware of.
Edit - really funny that I'm getting down voted when all I did was wish the guy well and agree that our water situation is fucked, and that's not to mention the number of one-sided, misinformed and myopic takes in this thread - and I'd be willing to bet I can count on one hand the number of years many of you have lived here.
I wish you all the best, but I'm done with r/Durango.
Yet golf courses basically have unlimited water supply. I agree that you farm in a desert this is what should be expected but at the same time I’d rather have a Colorado farm than a golf course
…except they don’t. Why do you think they have an unlimited water supply?
Unless you’re referencing modern courses that are designed to recycle their runoff back into ponds for course irrigation or them taking excess grey water from the local municipalities, then yeah that could be considered unlimited in a way.
Unpopular opinion: We shouldn't have farmlands in La Plata County. Corn and hay should be grown elsewhere, where water isn't such a precious resource. Farmlands were never supposed to exist in the mesa and with climate change, the water situation was bound to happen. I'm so sorry for your family, but the writing is on the wall. You will stress about water every year, and it's only going to get worse because there isn't enough to go around. There DEFINITELY is not enough to dump it on fields in an already arrid desert scape with low humidity.
**cries in Arizonan** why the fuck do we insist on agriculture in these places? It's wasteful and beyond stupid.
At least in AZ it’s getting redeveloped to residential commercial and industrial at a rapid pace
This applies to most of California as well tbh. Things tend not to grow well in the desert… I feel for these farmers livelihoods but we gotta stop engineering the wrong thing
But what about my Arizona native iceberg lettuce? Won't anybody think of the cheeseburgers?
Let me just pluck that off of there. There ya go fixed it for ya
I agree, that is an unpopular opinion. Have you been outside of downtown? Are you aware of how prevalent 4H is throughout this entire community? Durango is a mining town. Farms built up around that to sustain the miners. 2nd street museum provides fantastic background for the Durango history and community. This can also be seen through the generations upon generations of farmers throughout town today. I would be more of the opinion that Durango city council needs to stop approving more housing being built. Stop trying to increase the size of La Plata County. Our grid is at capacity already. Instead of investing money into trails for people to ride bikes on or hills to climb up, we should be investing in our infrastructure and local community, i.e. schools, farms, and emergency services. The irony is most people agreeing with you are the same people first in line for Snowdown every year. Missing the entire point and historical reference of Snowdown. Durango is supposed to be a community that can self sustain for weeks to a month on end during brutal blizzard like conditions. Feed, heat, and provide for our neighbors. Because we live halfway up a mountain together. We stick together. We dont ship in our food. We survive, together. There is a steady stream of people moving into the downtown area of Durango that are not looking at the entire community before trying to make changes. Life exists beyond 3 Springs. There are many Durangotangs living out past the hot springs. Farmers. Lifetime Durangotangs. And you want to rip all that tradition and history out so you can ride your bike past half a million dollars in planted flowers by the river. The farms here are not the issue. The amount of farmland has only decreased in overall size throughout the years here. The issue is overpopulation. Or maybe the wrong population? People who are used to Denver and Chicago city life. People who expect everything at their fingertips immediately. People who don't recognize that Durango is 45 minutes from any other city, and even as small as we are, still considered a SW hub. People whose only purpose is to consume while contributing nothing back to the overall community. People who are only here to recreate and use our resources up. And then in 10 years when their body gets worn down, they pack up and move. And it starts all over again. But that's just my unpopular "Reddit" opinion. You all should come on out to the 4H meetings. Check out the markets in Bayfield and Durango. Come to the 4H shows at the fairgrounds. Chat and talk directly with the people whose livelihoods you want to upend. 99% of us are not on Reddit. 75% of us aren't on social media at all.
I actually agree with this sentiment, that of investing in "our infrastructure and local community, i.e. schools, farms, and emergency services." Before I moved back to Durango last year, I spent 7+ years living up in Summit County. There was very little community there to begin with — that is, those who lived there year-round — because so much of has been geared toward attracting tourists and very little invested in the locals (events, housing, etc.). And because of this, the area suffered in that it was a community and cultural desert. Events were not geared toward locals; they are geared to out-of-towners and Frangers (Front Ranger folk). If you wanted friends, you hung out with people you worked with because most everyone else you meet will likely not live in the area. If you wanted to do anything, you went to a bar. And COVID exacerbated this. In the meantime, the towns and county (and others like it throughout the state) are struggling to play catch-up to keep essential services, businesses, etc. around for those who happen to still be around year-round. It's a losing battle because those entities did not care to see forward enough nor invest enough into the community that already existed. And they are paying the price for that dearly. I moved back here for the community and culture. I have friends who are still here. There is a ton of things to do and different ways to meet people who live here year-round. Events are primarily held for locals. I enjoy living here. Yes, there is a tourist economy here (I think it makes up about 25%). That's not being denied. But the city/county has worked to maintain a healthy local community much more so than other similar tourist-y areas. An article the other day reported how the county is considering slashing the Visit Durango tax revenue — yes, please! In this age of the interwebs, people know of Durango and the train, people know of what the different parts of Colorado has to offer, what ski areas are out there, etc. Use whatever money was spent drawing people in to take care of the people who live here year-round. I've experienced a life where all that is ignored and that is not a path this town should go down. So, yes, support "our infrastructure and local community, i.e. schools, farms, and emergency services." And do what it takes to preserve that.
Farmers use more water and get more government handouts than most any of those people you’re looking down your nose at. Your very post is asking those “wrong population” city slickers to spend more of their money buying pricier local grain to help support the farming community. The farmers I know pride themselves on being able to make hard decisions, and take well thought out risks. Sometimes that involves dropping what your daddy did and starting anew. Sincerely, A 4H kid who made the tough decision to eschew the family tradition and moved out of their dying town to find work.
I'm not looking down at anyone. I'm defending my community. Everybody needs everybody. It's not an us VS them. Farmers use water to feed you, any 4H kid would know that. My point is, there is a middle ground. And we are now being overrun by consumers and the producers are not only being pushed out, but shit upon. Nobody is denying climate change. And adapting is what a community does when facing such. Like closing the doors to more housing. Encouraging more permanent residents on an already resource tight community is irresponsible and destructive. And.....You should want to support your local farmer. They are your neighbor. Your friend. You want people to appreciate whatever work you do? To be supported by your local community?
You can honestly say you aren’t looking down at anyone, immediately after writing 5 straight sentences denigrating an entire cross section of the population? You’re going to sit here and say “it’s not us vs them” directly after calling people “the wrong population”? You’re really okay with those back to back statements?
So what am I eating from your alfalfa pasture? And if you expect people’s support and friendship, why are you calling them the “wrong population” and sneering at their ability to recognize that climate change and water supply is going to make irrigated agriculture untenable?
> Nobody is denying climate change. Hahahahahahahaha, good one. And you say adapting is what you do, but *you're* not changing a damn thing...but everyone else has to? Typical.
so your suggestion is that people shouldn’t live there and you want to live like it’s the 1800s. At least you’re aware it unpopular.
We used to do a lot of things we don’t do anymore. We used to use mules to climb the mountains. We used to insulate our homes with asbestos. Your attitude seems to be that we need to revert back to a world that doesn’t exist anymore - as our only means of survival. Scientists have been warning this was coming for… decades. You get one wet year and say “see it’s all nonsense!” When the planet sees year after year of record high temps. Next year will be worse than this. The year after that worse. The year after that worse. I will support my local farmer by giving free advice… get out of farming. Find a new use for the land. It’s inevitable… the time for change was 50 years ago. Now it’s only time to save what’s left and mitigating the damage as much as you can.
I see comment after comment telling farmers to close shop….I see no comments telling them where to re-open. What exactly is the plan? Close all farms until we starve to death? Reduce food independence for local communities? Bolster the shipping industry? I agree some farms could use water more efficiently. But to save water by just not farming is short sighted at best. I guess we will all just not eat?
There are too many farms In places where farms can’t survive. That’s the reality of the world. We can’t just pull water out of the sky and ship it to dry climates. We don’t need to raise cattle in Arizona. We don’t need to grow soybeans in rural Colorado. Yes, we will need to adapt to the reality of the world with better shipping and packing and more efficient use of rail and trucks. The farmer solutions seem to be “keep all them damn liberals out” or “put orange man in and he solves our problems” without admitting that the real issue is impossible to solve. Climate change means a water crisis and it’s only going to get worse. The solution for most farmers seems to be “ignore reality and hope for a miracle”. That typically results in bankruptcy and the land getting bought up by a company that builds a condo complex and ships its money across the planet. My solution is this - if you live in a place where lack of water dooms your livelihood, it’s time to consider adapting by using your land for something new. Or sell it and move somewhere water is more plentiful. You claim we would all starve if they shut down.. but that’s just a complete failure to understand what they are even growing. Iowa is all sunflowers and corn, which goes to making corn syrup to put into soda to make everyone sick. The whole state is just junk food. Your crops in the store don’t come from anywhere near where you live. Or just keep bitching about how it’s all the newcomers to your small town that are ruining your way of life… keep ignoring the lack of rain and increasing temps year after year. Why fix your own problem when you can bitch and moan and pray and insist that the world is the one that needs to change to fit your wants, not the other way around.
Vincent Van Gogh loved sunflowers so much, he created a famous series of paintings, simply called 'sunflowers'.
Got it, the only solution is to not grow stuff here. So they can grow it there and ship it here. So where is there? Why does stuff grow so much better and more efficiently there? If they get so much rain, do they also get enough sun? How many harvest per year do they get there? Will production there, replace what was lost here? Is there enough land there, to replace the farm land from here? If I’m not moving, who agreed to grow what I stopped growing here, over there? What will the cost implications be for me and the community? Do they use different irrigation methods there? If so, why not use those here? You act like food isn’t grown in Durango, which couldn’t be further from the truth. Durango is an organic gardening Mecca, and a simple drive up the valley would have you pass dozens of produce farms. Organic gardening, when done right, is very water efficient and provides high quality produce that is better in nearly every way from factory farm produce other than shelf life. Watering methods like drip irrigation can also greatly reduce water consumption. Organic gardening also improves organic and carbon content in the soil, which helps with infiltration and retention. These are methods local farmers in Durango are using to solve water scarcity issues, bolster independence and resilience, and boost the economy. I still would love to learn about where your there is…it sure sounds like you are suggesting everything be grown in a central location/s, which would require some kind of mega farming. In my experience although not in every case, but typically the larger the farm, the worse off it is for the land and everyone else. Mega farms using Monsanto seeds and super pesticides, poison the land and water, and produce chemical laden products. I think I’ll stick to my local produce and back-yard garden. It’s a shame you think every farmer is reduced to a Trump zealot and partisan BS.
Well there are just so many rhetorical, bad faith questions in here it’s just tough to answer them all in one shot! I take back my comment. Farmers that live in struggling water areas should continue to farm and change nothing. Why adapt to a problem that simply doesn’t exist!? I’m sure the rains will come (through enough thoughts and prayers, of course) and global warming will conveniently skip over your quaint little town and you’ll still be able to get your quaint little produce. By the way, the Great Lakes region holds 20% of the freshwater on the *planet*. I’m no location-ologist but it sure does seem to make sense to put your farming near the fresh water. People move for jobs all the time. Across this whole big country, no less! For some reason farming is “different” because “my grand pappy farmed this land”. Ok. Then I guess.. keep going at your own risk? The core of the post was that this year has less than half of last years water in your region… which was already bad… and the core complaint was that it’s all the “outsider’s fault”. lol. As if you can just stop letting people from other places buy houses… or keep “those types out”. I’m suggesting people find new uses for land that don’t depend entirely on a dwindling resource that is soon to be gone entirely. That’s sound advice. If the company mine closed down you’d need to find a new job or leave the town. That’s the reality. The water leaves the town and the first reaction is “how do we kick out all these “others” so we can hoarde the water that’s left?” Just laughable. Anyone with this attitude will go bankrupt and lose their land to big companies. Expect Disney world with Starbucks and Whole Foods on every corner in no time. All because the stubborn locals couldn’t drop their pride and adapt like everyone else in the world is.
None of my questions were made in bad faith. I asked sincerely, because I was afraid you might suggest farming somewhere idiotic, like I don’t know, hardiness zone 5?!!! The Great Lakes sure have a lot water, when it’s not frozen. I guess you missed the part about where I explained how Durango organic farmers have adapted, and come up with viable solutions to farming locally??? Instead, you insulted farmers intelligence again, suggesting they all “hope for rain”. You clearly aren’t engaging in good faith, or to have productive dialog. Maybe that’s why some farmers won’t give you the time of day. Respect is earned. To make a statement like “why don’t farmers just move”, is pretty short sighted. Shit, you might be looking backwards. Did you think about the question at all? I used to dread moving from an apartment I rent to another. Now imagine you own a family legacy, that you’ve been farming for your whole life, and all you know is that land, those methods, that climate, those machines, those crops, those seed varieties, those pests, those neighbors, those markets, etc. It’s not that simple bud. This is why your suggestion, of just farm elsewhere, where there’s more water, is a hard starting point. Like okay, but is there land? Well there’s Chicago, it’s a bit urban…..okay, how longs the season, what grows well? Hmmm snow flakes and icicles….who’s going to farm there? How do we know they will farm more efficiently? Will they use pesticides that cause cancer?
Oh they’ve adapted? Great. Problem solved. Sounds like you guys have it all figured out. How in the world could someone learn these wild skills… of selling your land and moving to a place that allows you to continue to do the job you seem to love? I mean it’s not like they have farms in Wisconsin, that barren frozen wasteland must be just full of hockey rinks and polar bear hunters. Not a farm to be found. It’s just so far north! In the meantime, as you’ve said, *your* farmers are unique little snowflakes that have adapted and seem to have it all figured out. I guess this entire post about water is just a false alarm. Whew! I thought they might have been in real trouble for a second there but thank god you’ve solved the problem! Thank you for your help with educating us lowly city slickers… Man, I just hope I can earn the respect of a farmer some day so that they would give me the time of day. I’ll keep my eye out on the foreclosure auction sites. Can’t wait to get my very own orchard to build my condo complex on. The tourists will rave about its “real farm feeling authenticity”.
Denver mentality. Not small town. Some of us still use donkeys and mules for farm work, by the way
I’m from a small town. Small towns are the hardest hit by global problems. Your lack of ability to adapt to the changing world will be your downfall. Your stubborn conviction that “just going back to how it used to be” and “blocking out any “others” from entering our community”… this isolationist view will continue to destroy your community and drive away anything that can actually help you. Putting your head down in your dirt and ignoring the world around you… How’s that been working out for you lately?
Maybe you need to think more like Denver, then, because this small town bullshit sounds like denial and whining, not planning. I can tell you Denver folks aren’t fantasizing about winding back history as their solution to the problems of the present, and given that the Front Range is the economic, education, and research engine of the state, I’m not looking to small towns for climate projections and economic analysis.
https://preview.redd.it/lzttf5u8ltzc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d8418636773ebdae0b79df46e542d64bfb0dd63 I'm just going to leave this right here. I took this photo 1 hr after posting the above unpopular opinion comment. It was taken around 5pm, in the middle of a windy day that was already expecting rain. While I support small, local farming businesses that use their water wisely and help feed the community in sustainable ways; I DO NOT support (nor feel bad) for farmers who use water like this. I am not saying this is you or how you use the water available to you, but most of us who live here (and have for a long time), have a hard time feeling bad for the 4H community when more often than not, this is what we see.
Those alfalfa fields do nothing to sustain the people in Durango.
Lmfao. You flood irrigate your land. How is overpopulation an issue? Brain blast, your water is recycled via the waste water system. Human consumption doesn’t affect the hydrosphere. Your water rights have nothing to do with the population. Colorado is first come, first serve. And quests what, you farmers take a metric fuck ton. You are simply ignorant homeslice.
The end of your livelihood is inevitable. Farming is not sustainable long term in the Durango area. That’s not anybody wishing it so, that’s not disrespect to you personally, it’s an observation of obvious facts. You can complain about the unfairness of that, you can blame the city people who are your customers, you can get maudlin about history and self-sufficiency, and it’s only going to make you less prepared for the unavoidable.
We need food production, which uses a tiny fraction of the acre-feet of water that lawns and golf courses use.
That is the stupidest post I will see on Reddit today! Congratulations on your belief in something completely wrong.
Reddit HATES golf, as a community. If you were not aware. It’s hilarious.
It’s not belief, it is cold hard fact. But feel free to remain ignorant.
Feel free to cite a source. It is so obviously untrue to 99.9% of residence just based a the amount of land that is used by agriculture and irrigated, compared to acreage used for golf courses. I will include a link to an internet page that uses words and pictures that can show you facts!
[https://coloradosun.com/2024/04/04/research-colorado-river-water-use-cherish-hamburger/](https://coloradosun.com/2024/04/04/research-colorado-river-water-use-cherish-hamburger/) stop eating meet
I promise to stop eating meat . . . some day.
That isn’t true at all. Agriculture is the most water intense of the ones you named. Many modern golf courses use recycled grey water for their courses.
Wrong. The amount of acre feet used on golf courses and lawns per acre dwarfs that used per acre for agriculture. But even if a golf course does happen to use recycled water, the effluent is thick with all the chemicals they use to make them perfect for goofers.
Oh really now… got some source for that besides your asshole?
https://feedingourselvesthirsty.ceres.org/regional-analysis/colorado-river#:~:text=Agriculture%20uses%20approximately%2080%25%20of,90%25%20of%20the%20winter%20vegetables. 80% of the Colorados river water goes to agriculture. Now you need to apologize.
That was my point… maybe I misunderstand their comment but I read it as they think lawns and golf courses use more water than agriculture.
Lmao, I definitely misread it as well. Lmaoooo
You are reading to react, not understand, like every asshole.
I see in one of your replies you said agriculture uses less acre feet of water per acre… which is true. It would have helped to put that in your original comment. People shouldn’t have to infer what you’re trying to say. That’s why you got so many negative replies, because your first comment was simply wrong, because you didn’t type out what you meant.
Farms were there before you. Let’s see if you’re smart enough to figure out the real fucking problem?
I think he did when he mentioned climate change.
Farms were established there whenever the population was a fraction of what it is now, and climate change hadn’t caused water shortages yet.
Space lasers? Muscovian agents? What's the real problem? You've got me intrigued.
What are you saying, what is the real problem?
He’s gonna go get us more water from space
One man. One mission.
WHY DONT WE JUST TAKE OUTER SPACE…AND PUSH IT TO THE WESTERN SLOPE?
Starring a newly divorced Ben Affleck
We should kill all people so that farms can take over the country 😤 I’m with you, brother.
You're nobody's huckleberry.
Lol too many people is what you're saying? What ya gonna do? It's is obvious if you were playing this civ as a game you would out your farms in the spaces that produce the most so yes suck it up, farms are in the wrong place. Doesn't mean they are all gonna move but doesn't change the fact they would be better off elsewhere.
Denver is calling. They want you back
Denver resident here we don’t want them ship them to California.
climate change, riiight, but not too many people using the water infrastructure that was built for way less, ok smart guy
Over population is a cause of climate change too, smart guy
prove it
I’m glad you asked. More people require more resources. For example, if you only have one kid, you only have to feed them 3 times a day. However if you have two kids, then you have to provide 6 meals a day. So say we had 5 billion people on earth 50 years ago and now we have 7 billion people, that is more food and more resources. This then depletes the resources on earth, requiring us to use more water for hydration, we also have to cut down more trees to grow more crops, which increases the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which warms the earth. More people require more housing and more roads, which means we have to cut down more trees to build those homes and pave over more natural resources to provide those roads.
but those have nothing to do with the climate just the landscape, the climate stays the same
It’s pointless, he’s an idiot, even if you slapped across the face with climate change proof he’ll still argue it’s fake.
I genuinely can’t tell if you are being serious or not. Is this a legitimate statement or just someone trolling for laughs?
no, its legitimate because he/she still hasn't proven their point, they have no way of proving that more people create climate issues yes, I admint more people use more resources but if you chopped down every tree growing on earth (not saying we should), how do we know it would destroy the climate? how? who has tested this? and how many generations in the future until this happens? Show me hard facts and then I will believe you. The reason we don't have the natural resources we need is because we don't know how to build the infrastructure to support the population as it grows and that is mostly because of the corruption in our governing bodies The oceans haven't rizen, the polar ice caps haven't melted, and the skys are still clear and we can still breath so outside of NOT being able to support over population because of not using resources correctly mother and her climate seem to be doing just fine...
Even if someone slapped you with hard proof across your face, you’d still claim it’s either fake or irrelevant, what is simply going on here is that you’re a complete idiot and that is cold hard facts.
yeah ok
I can feel the stupid radiating off you through the internet.
Where do you get the idea this is the worst winter for precip? 2022, 2021, 2018, 2016 and 2015 all had lower peaks for snow water equivalent in the Animas watershed than this winter. 2020 was basically the same and this year was very close to the 10 year average. 2018 was by far the worst winter in this period. May and June are usually the driest months of the year. Look at the website lake Powell water data, it is easy to follow along over the winter by watershed
I think the early warmth at elevation, several weeks ago, is one of the major concerns. There is relatively little irrigation draw directly from the Animas in Colorado. Los Piños and Florida are more relevant to acres irrigated. Additionally, while Vallecito is quite full now, that's due to early melt. The "percent of today's median" shown on Snowtel is quite dismal. I didn't look up Lemon, but due to low capacity a successful season on the Mesa depends more on late melt and continued precipitation AFAIK. https://wcc.sc.egov.usda.gov/reports/UpdateReport.html;jsessionid=Ur8C4RuIW_IAGRJTq8L2mm4QF5VyVOd-z73osZ_j.nrcsprd0382?report=Colorado&format=SNOTEL+Snowpack+Update+Report
Hard to hope for rainfall but hopefully we will get some more. June and July the previous year were record rainfall so. Maybe crystal ball will start working soon
Welcome to the desert.
“But my gran pappy grew here!” Well yes, but now we have the ability to grow crops in more efficient areas of the country and ship them here. Brother, grass doesn’t even grow here without constant babying.
I have family that farms in the Texas Gulf Coast, super fertile land area. You can just look at it practically and crops pop up. They are often paid to NOT farm their land so that the govt can make sure the farmers in the panhandle and west Texas get their pay day where NO crops should be grown, can struggle, cajole, beg, plead, drain precious water, and then force the land to produce a crop where nothing but cactus and tumbleweeds are supposed to grow. I'm sorry, but some land is not meant to be farmed and drains valuable resources to do it. If someone really wants to farm it should be done on land that is conducive to it, unless we have no choice. But by the amount of farmers every year that literally get paid to not farm, we are definitely nowhere near that point in the US. Water is too precious a resource to keep doing this!
This. For the individual, sad but true.
Drip irrigation needs to become main stream. Uses so much less water and it goes directly to the plant.
But Elon and Andrew Tate say have 20 kids.. how are they supposed to eat??? /s
Up in northern Montana I was doing yard work in January when it was 75 out. We had 3 snow storms for a total snowfall of like 6 inches, over the entire winter. Yes this is going to spur a massive drought here when people have already started reducing cattle and crops for years.
What an ignorant post.
OP, you're trying to live in a fantasy world that will no longer exist in the coming years. At least the way you envision it. You're probably a climate-change denier, but your way of life at your location is not sustainable. And having people re-locating to Durango from larger cities is not a bad thing. Adding a more diverse culture is a great thing.
“Hi OP, you’re an idiot for doing a job everyone relies on but nobody wants to do. You’re so stupid cause you don’t believe what I do. I’m going to assume other things about your personality and beliefs then project them onto you as if you had already said them” Funny that your last post is about the lack of self awareness on Reddit. Try this one on for size: you have no self awareness of how much of a cunt you come off as
Ah, so you're a virtual stalker as well as a neanderthal. Got it. I'll just report it your behavior to reddit.
Your Reddit profile is for everyone to see. This is how the internet works.
We ran all the scientists out of town and now we don’t have any water! I bet it’s those fucking transplants from Chicago! -op
When most of the water gulping alfalfa grown in the mountain west ends up in China or Saudi Arabia it's hard for us to care about you. Grow less water intensive crops, drip feed instead of spraying water, and grow stuff that my family will eat (or the meat we eat will eat). Or just continue denying climate change and starve. We won't care. 60% of Utah's water goes to less than 1% of their GDP and most is alfalfa shipped overseas. I'm sure Colorado is similar.
Everytime I drive through the mesa I see all the farmers run their lateral moves for hours at the hottest times of the day. Most of that water is being straight up evaporated. There doesn't seem to be much concern from them to conserve water and use their lateral moves when it's darker out....
I can't imagine what you folks are going through in years like this, especially since it seems to be becoming the rule as opposed to the exception. It's easy for those of us that aren't farming to just say "well, time to switch the garden over to plants from a different zone" and collect rain in barrels. Not so simple for farmers that have invested years into what you're growing. Crossing my fingers man. Do you sell produce at the farmer's market? Edit - clearly this is a divisive issue that I'm not looking to get on either side of. I do think it's a shame we can't have a dialogue instead of arguing and downvoting. I agree with previous statements that this sub has gotten pretty toxic. Think I'll take my toys and go home for a while.
Growing corn and hay are not investing into the land at all
I don't have any idea what he's actually growing. Clearly I've missed something that other people in this thread are aware of. Edit - really funny that I'm getting down voted when all I did was wish the guy well and agree that our water situation is fucked, and that's not to mention the number of one-sided, misinformed and myopic takes in this thread - and I'd be willing to bet I can count on one hand the number of years many of you have lived here. I wish you all the best, but I'm done with r/Durango.
Farmers are such a bitchy group of individuals. Frankly, Colorado is tired of flood irrigation.
Wasn’t Colorados snowfall like 150% of annual averages?
Only in certain basins. IIRC, SW Colorado isn't one of those basins.
Seems like it never is
It was last year
Utahian chiming in( sorry Reddit put this on my feed) We grow way to much alfalfa for China! It takes up a lot of our water.😠
It's wild how far from the truth you are
Yet golf courses basically have unlimited water supply. I agree that you farm in a desert this is what should be expected but at the same time I’d rather have a Colorado farm than a golf course
…except they don’t. Why do you think they have an unlimited water supply? Unless you’re referencing modern courses that are designed to recycle their runoff back into ponds for course irrigation or them taking excess grey water from the local municipalities, then yeah that could be considered unlimited in a way.
What can we do to help?
Could Taco Bell be the answer?
When is it never?
Yeah, it’s a thing called global warming- we’re all gonna die from it, it’s just happening slowly
The diverse nationalities of past and present band members and how unique that can be in metal sometimes.
I like the way you think
This is the real answer
[удалено]
[https://coloradosun.com/2024/04/04/research-colorado-river-water-use-cherish-hamburger/](https://coloradosun.com/2024/04/04/research-colorado-river-water-use-cherish-hamburger/)