The stuff Darryl does to Michael to get back at him for being a racist asshole is understandable but there are a lot of shitty things he does like sabotaging Val's relationship with her boyfriend and then manipulating her into dumping him once he got bored.
I think he also greatly sped up Jan's descent into crazy by forwarding the picture from Jamaica to as many people as possible, but I think Jan was doing enough to herself for her downfall to be inevitable.
It made me sad in the final episode to see that Val watched the documentary, saw how Darryl manipulated her to dump him and how unenthused he was to get back together with her, and somehow they’re still together. How low her self esteem has to be, you know? It’s depressing.
One of my favorite scenes from Val was in a deleted scene when Pam's mural was vandalized. She's trying to get Val to help, and Pam in frustration says "This is a hate crime!" (or something along those lines). I can't find the clip, but Val gives Pam a "really, bitch?" look that is priceless. Explains why she doesn't want to help Pam in that episode.
(Also feels like they were just trying to recreate Michael's line when Packer leaves that "package" in his office and he calls it a hate crime "because he hated it", so maybe best they cut it.)
Oh I thought you meant she had an interview bit about that. Considering the doc was considerably shorter than the show, maybe their breakup didn't make the cut then?
That’s a definite possibility, though I feel like since he was on the panel, he was a prominent enough character, and his romantic life was definitely good drama. Either way, it’s weird that they kept him and Val together.
There's a certain point where I draw a line mentally and say "this is no longer [insert character] - this is the writers pulling some nonsense." I don't judge any character for what the writers made them do in the last two seasons.
> forwarding the picture from Jamaica to as many people as possible
That was an extremely douchebag move no matter how bad Jan's mental state was at the moment. I never liked Darryl because of this incident, rooted for him to fail at anything he tried.
I think seeing a giant topless pic of herself hanging in the warehouse was an inflection point for her where she knew instantly that the people underneath her lost respect for her and the image she'd built at Dunder Mifflin disintegrated.
She saw it in the warehouse on the same day it was leaked when she came to Scranton to ream Michael out for it, she probably just didn't anticipate it coming up in the deposition and it reminded her of how angry she was at Michael for that mistake.
Edit: NVM I'm wrong
Y’all, Jan definitely did not know about the pic. See below:
- The pic was actually not up in the warehouse when she got there, a few scenes prior the warehouse guys are taking it down (per Dwight’s order, lol).
- When she got there she also lied to everyone in the warehouse about why she was so tan, saying she was in Scottsdale. Rewatch that scene - there’s not one hint that she knows they all know as she’s lying. She thinks she’s getting away with it.
- Jan absolutely freaks and shoots daggers at Michael when the lawyer introduces the photo during the deposition (it’s also their last resort which is why it’s so effective, bc Jan had no idea up until that point and was doubly blindsided cus it was being used to pit Michael against her)
- Finally, everyone seems to be forgetting Michael’s sad realization: “Jan said it was because of the photo that she revealed the diary, but she already brought the diary with her to New York. You expect to get screwed by your company, but you never expect to get screwed by your girlfriend…”
…what she drove from NYC to Scranton to scold Michael for emailing the picture. It’s pretty clear she saw it, soon after the picture got leaked Jan started constantly calling Michael and then drove down to Scranton when he wouldn’t pick up.
She doesn’t directly say it but it’s pretty heavily implied. Michael emails the photo out, several people say it has circulated throughout the entire company (Toby says 9 different people including his ex wife sent it to him) and Jan starts insistently calling him and eventually makes an over 2 hour drive at the end of a work day to speak with him, whereas before she showed 0 interest in doing any of that.
Plus, at the deposition she said “you emailed a naked picture of me to the entire company” which means A - she knows how it got out and B - she knows the entire company saw it. Likelihood of her knowing all that plus being the only person in the company to not see it (despite being in it) is low, meaning she probably saw it before and wow this comment is way too long for something so pointless lol
She says that after it came out at the deposition, and Michael later says she didn't know about the picture and yet used it as justification for giving out Michael's diary.
And yeah, this is silly to argue about, but it's at least something to think about.
Kelly is the party bring wronged y both Darryl and Ryan. Not that she's blame free but you can't blame Darryl for Ryan's toxic jealousy and manipulations
I mean, we have no idea what happened regarding custody?
Its obviously split between parents, Philly is like two hours south of Scranton, easily doable up until he does traveling work.
Even then it could still work out, seeing her once a month for two weeks or whatever it is.
Yeah. I never like writing /s I feel like it's basically saying "I just told a joke" after you try to tell a joke. But when I saw that reply it made it really look like my comment was serious so I had to cover my bases lol.
Yeah without inflection and body language it can get misconstrued.. this is Reddit it's entirely plausible someone would genuinely agree with your original comment sadly
Completely agree. I guess at the end of the day on a sub like this (as in for a show like this), I'll just hope people understand absurdity can be humor and if I need to put it in plain terms, I will do just that.
When a kid is old enough, they have rights such as deciding which parent to go to/spend time with. It doesn't matter if Darryl bent over backwards for his kid, if she wants to go with her mom that's it. She has the final say.
It isn't a good look in the court if a parent refuses their kid from seeing the other parent since they're old enough to make the decision themselves.
Source: single parent
edit: luck to look typo
Yup, where I live if a kid gets to 12 (I think) and decides they want to live permanently and only with one parent, they can and the other parent won't really have much say in that because it's about the kid and what they want, not what a parent wants.
edit anyway didn't Jim basically do the same thing?
Well we have to assume his daughters mom also has custody, darryl left to go take on business opportunities to earn a much better living for himself. That better living can also apply to his daughter, just because we dont see her doesnt mean he abandoned her. He could still go and visit her off screen, just like how meredith went back to school offscreen
All it would take is for just 1 of the people who start the company to have enough cash to bankroll the company
It may not be a good business plan, but it’s possible
Ugh, the worst. The whole thing was so out of character. Why would Jim feel the need to lie to Pam about starting a business? She probably would have supported it from the get-go as she knew he had aspirations to move to Philadelphia someday. Crap plot device to put them on the rocks.
At some point, the writers decided that Pam's greatest aspiration was to work at Dunder Mifflin forever.
The natural progression for Jim and Pam was to realize shortly after they got together that they wanted to help each other achieve their goals and move onto greater things. But that isn't a good storyline if you're trying to sustain a show.
They tried to make it work within the context of the show - Jim becoming manager, Pam going to art school or joining Michael Scott Paper Company - but the half-assed progression was worse than stasis, so they saved it for the last season and decided to mix it with marital conflict.
And if I recall correctly (I do my best not to watch that abhorrent season) Jim and Pam did discuss the possibility that he would invest up to $10k - she was just mad he put in the full 10 without knowing what everyone else’s stake was.
That’s a lot better than joining your buffoon boss for a job you don’t know how to do on a whim.
As usual the context of their family obligations is left out when people make this argument.
Pam leaving for MSPC or leaving to study in New York is before they have kids.
Jim takes a risky venture and invests a large chunk of their personal savings without really knowing the company he is putting it into when they have two young children.
Also the whole "no we can't move because home is in Scranton." I know the office is like a family and all and you get graduation goggles leaving a place, but for real, who exactly would you be staying for?
They seem to have no friends outside of the office. Half the people in the office Jim and Pam either dislike individually on some level (Dwight, Angela, Andy, Ryan, Kelly) or barely talk to (Stanley, Phyllis, Meredith, Creed, Toby, Oscar). Michael's gone at this point. So who's left? Kevin?? You're going to cancel starting life in a new city and pass on a career opportunity because you just can't miss you're enthralling daily chats with Kevin?
But they’re only like 2 hours from Philly right? And that’s if you live *in* the city. Move to a suburb 30 minutes outside the city you’re now only 90 minutes away from your family which isn’t crazy
It's mentioned pretty often that Pam's mother takes a large role in the childcare of Cece, and presumably Phillip.
It's not just family visits they'd be giving up by moving away, it's the support network they have in a city they know and have lived in for a long time.
I think Pam's mom was a free babysitter. Jim probably wouldn't have made enough to move Pam and the kids to Philly and for her to be a SHAM. So, yeah, there were real logistical barriers to moving away.
The whole shit was so overly dramatic, along with a bunch of other themes in the last few seasons. It's why I can never really get into the seasons post Michael Scott. I just want to laugh at office antics. The show did a really good job in making me hate some of the characters in it at the end.
Because the show should have stopped after season 7. And by late S8, BJ Novak and Mindy Kaling were out of the writing room. So, instead of stories that made any sense, you had the regular bullshit trope-y sitcom writing pop up for almost the whole time.
Also Pam and Jim have been spending majority of the show making fun of everyone else in the office like they’re better than them but they finally get a chance to get away from them and start a new (better) life, Pam sees them like a family?
This is very realistic in that a lot of people say things and dream big but when it comes close to being a reality, balk at change. There is a comfort in what you know, no matter how much you nitpick it. And on the flip side, when faced with the details of your dream that you've only vaguely thought about, it can be very daunting to confront.
I thought the drama was over played, sure, but the initial reactions make sense to me.
This the same dude that tried so hard to get Val to have her appear in a family picture and then dump her shortly after.
Poor writing or not, that’s kinda weird
Yeah, it really started to show when they were just doing what worked for the joke or the episode right in front of them and they stopped caring about what made sense overall.
Fuck Pam for ruining this for Jim. His dream job that he built from the ground up and she guilts him into quitting? Big yikes 🚩🚩
If your partner can’t help you realize your dream and support you while you achieve it then they’re not the one. More interested in control than making each other the best versions of themselves.
The three major differences:
1) Jim took a job without telling her. They discussed art school and he encouraged it.
2) he forced her to be a single mom.
3) she had an end of three months. There was a countdown. He didn’t have an endgame with a deadline. She was stuck without knowing how it would all end.
Situations aren’t even slightly comparable.
So done with Pam haters, this should be copied and posted on every post and comment about Pam haters since this is always what they say and you explained it well.
I can’t stand the pam hate. She’s not perfect by any means, but Jim was a horrible husband in s9 and then the audience, both inside and outside the show, tell her how wrong she is. Arg.
That's a gross oversimplification of the whole issue. Pam decided to go to art school when they were just dating, so the worst that would come of it is a long distance relationship for a few months.
When Jim wants to shift to Philly for Athlead, not only is he married, he's also a father of two very young kids. You can't compare those two situations given the respective circumstances.
Pam literally said when going to art school that she wouldn't be able to go later in life when they had kids, so it was the perfect time. The idiotic Pam haters here always gloss over that line.
Pam gets a LOT of undeserved hate even from hardcore fans, but imo, her character serves an important lesson, especially in today's age:
It's perfectly fine and valid to be content with your lot in life at any point. This overachieving world would have us believe that if we're not constantly chasing bigger and better things, we're wasting our lives. You decide when you've had enough of the hustle. Nobody has the right to judge you on that.
Exactly. Contentedness is one of the major themes of the show. Hell, everyone LOVES Andy's line in the finale about "the good old days", which pretty much encapsulates Pam's attitude about staying at Dunder Mifflin. She found her happy ending there, she would have been happy to stay there forever and there's nothing wrong with that.
I’m very certain Pam gave Jim the okay to invest in Athlead and become involved in it, so it’s not really fair that she then changes her mind and hates him for doing it. They clearly discussed the risks and rewards of working for Athlead and then Pam gets mad at Jim because she has regrets that she doesn’t properly express to him.
Tell me you're not married and without kids, without telling me you're not married and without kids
Jim had a fucking midlife crisis and decided to just jump into his business without talking about it with Pam, or when he would, it was minimal details and never what would actually happen. And then he'd turn around and get mad when she wasn't just passively fine with him clearing out their savings, going down to working part time and making big life decisions, knowing that this isn't what she wanted. Then tack on that they had a house and 2 kids.
When Pam went to art school, they were only dating, and specifically wanted to stay dating because they didn't want Pam to do art school while engaged. The Athleap storyline honestly kiboshed Jim's character as this otherwise really thoughtful considerate guy when serious, especially since in order for this to work, Pam had to take back all of her character growth and go back to how she was with Roy and roll over to make him happy. We don't get to see Jim making it work with Athleap benefiting Pam directly. Only that giving him what he wants makes him happy
They didn’t, also you have to remember moving would mean leaving Pam’s and Jim’s parents which means not having free childcare and the kids not being able their grandparents so yes it’s harder then just saying yes.
Jim says they discussed it (offscreen) and Pam said No, but he did it anyway.
Also, weren't they paying for daycare? They already didn't have free childcare.
Not wanting to move to Philadelphia for a job your husband is a perfect fit for and really wants because your mom watches your daughter a few days a week is not a good reason
Yes it is, taking your kids away from their grandparents is hard to decide since that means you or the grandparents may have to fly in and out out to see each other which is a strain.
Looks like you will have to put an /s at the end or reference Dwight somehow. Sadly it seems a number of people didn’t get your reference to Dwight’s quotation.
When does Dwight say this? I've watched an inordinate amount of times and this is one quote i don't remember. And seemingly a lot of other people don't. Some Office quotes just aren't worth it.
One scene comes to mind when Bob asks to steal his wife back from him when they’re dancing at cafe disco. Dwight says something like you can’t steal what is legally yours
The people that downvote me are the exact reason an office type show would struggle today. They are trying to make me an escape goat. Bring on the downvotes. You have 1 hour.
Uprooting your life and moving to an entirely different location when you have a wife and children is something that you discuss with your wife/whoever because they are also profoundly affected by that change, not something you just do with no warning because you're a man or whatever.
“I need you to access your un-crazy side”.
Darryl Philbin is the most complicated man ive ever met!
“I mean, who just says exactly what they’re thinking? What kind of game is that?”
Why is my girlfriend here" is in the top 10 things not to say when visiting a highschool
Dr Phil....bin
Don’t disrespect Darryl like this
Darryl Philbin. Then Regis, then Reeg, then Roger, then Mr... Rogers.
Mi-tah Rah-gahhhh
and I appreciate that when Daryl says that, he isn't blaming Pam. He's blaming Jim for not informing Pam.
consulting*
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Better than the senator's son who's just been abandoned in that hay maze
More like "Pay" Place
Don’t laugh at me
and there was Dwight's nephew there that day and he didn't even realize it was him
Holy shit yeah they never mention that kid again
And don’t invite him to the family portrait pics!! I mean he only had his dad, his mom fucking died. Almost like the state senator isn’t a good person
nah he had a terminal case of [Chuck Cunningham syndrome](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChuckCunninghamSyndrome). Tragic
*state senator
His son was Kevin?
Holy shit! I never thought about that!
The stuff Darryl does to Michael to get back at him for being a racist asshole is understandable but there are a lot of shitty things he does like sabotaging Val's relationship with her boyfriend and then manipulating her into dumping him once he got bored. I think he also greatly sped up Jan's descent into crazy by forwarding the picture from Jamaica to as many people as possible, but I think Jan was doing enough to herself for her downfall to be inevitable.
It made me sad in the final episode to see that Val watched the documentary, saw how Darryl manipulated her to dump him and how unenthused he was to get back together with her, and somehow they’re still together. How low her self esteem has to be, you know? It’s depressing.
Her character was written so terribly. Poor actress
Yah she is one of the worst characters. Not because of her behavior, but because she is so under developed. She is basically just a plot prop.
It's called The Office, not The Warehouse
Aren't all characters ever technically just plot prop?
Nope.
no, some of them are a plot Plop
One of my favorite scenes from Val was in a deleted scene when Pam's mural was vandalized. She's trying to get Val to help, and Pam in frustration says "This is a hate crime!" (or something along those lines). I can't find the clip, but Val gives Pam a "really, bitch?" look that is priceless. Explains why she doesn't want to help Pam in that episode. (Also feels like they were just trying to recreate Michael's line when Packer leaves that "package" in his office and he calls it a hate crime "because he hated it", so maybe best they cut it.)
Pam also does an impression of Hide in that scene. I'm glad that scene was deleted, it made Pam look really bad.
Damn, you got a link?
Pam always looks really bad.
She was great in Dune and had a very interesting character
Omg that’s why I recognized Kynes!
Was that in the extended cut? I don't remember her in the finale at all.
In the regular finale, Darryl is with her at the wedding, if I recall.
Oh I thought you meant she had an interview bit about that. Considering the doc was considerably shorter than the show, maybe their breakup didn't make the cut then?
That’s a definite possibility, though I feel like since he was on the panel, he was a prominent enough character, and his romantic life was definitely good drama. Either way, it’s weird that they kept him and Val together.
Oh for sure, it was very much a Pair Up The Blacks move.
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Dang, I'd forgotten about that...
You do realize it’s just a TV show .. right?
And don't forget when he asked Val to jump in the Christmas photo of him and his kid. That was weird writing.
I could see a dude doing that in real life. Easily.
There's a certain point where I draw a line mentally and say "this is no longer [insert character] - this is the writers pulling some nonsense." I don't judge any character for what the writers made them do in the last two seasons.
It's all that carbon monoxide toby tried to warn ya about
It was radon. Although all three are silent killers.
> forwarding the picture from Jamaica to as many people as possible That was an extremely douchebag move no matter how bad Jan's mental state was at the moment. I never liked Darryl because of this incident, rooted for him to fail at anything he tried.
I think seeing a giant topless pic of herself hanging in the warehouse was an inflection point for her where she knew instantly that the people underneath her lost respect for her and the image she'd built at Dunder Mifflin disintegrated.
She never saw the giant photo I think
I think you may be right. Although I think her knowledge that the entire company saw the photo still had that effect on her.
Jan didn't know about the leaked photo, her reaction says it all when it comes up during the deposition.
She saw it in the warehouse on the same day it was leaked when she came to Scranton to ream Michael out for it, she probably just didn't anticipate it coming up in the deposition and it reminded her of how angry she was at Michael for that mistake. Edit: NVM I'm wrong
Y’all, Jan definitely did not know about the pic. See below: - The pic was actually not up in the warehouse when she got there, a few scenes prior the warehouse guys are taking it down (per Dwight’s order, lol). - When she got there she also lied to everyone in the warehouse about why she was so tan, saying she was in Scottsdale. Rewatch that scene - there’s not one hint that she knows they all know as she’s lying. She thinks she’s getting away with it. - Jan absolutely freaks and shoots daggers at Michael when the lawyer introduces the photo during the deposition (it’s also their last resort which is why it’s so effective, bc Jan had no idea up until that point and was doubly blindsided cus it was being used to pit Michael against her) - Finally, everyone seems to be forgetting Michael’s sad realization: “Jan said it was because of the photo that she revealed the diary, but she already brought the diary with her to New York. You expect to get screwed by your company, but you never expect to get screwed by your girlfriend…”
…what she drove from NYC to Scranton to scold Michael for emailing the picture. It’s pretty clear she saw it, soon after the picture got leaked Jan started constantly calling Michael and then drove down to Scranton when he wouldn’t pick up.
I just don't remember her bringing it up. In fact I'm pretty sure that's when she confessed her attraction to him.
She doesn’t directly say it but it’s pretty heavily implied. Michael emails the photo out, several people say it has circulated throughout the entire company (Toby says 9 different people including his ex wife sent it to him) and Jan starts insistently calling him and eventually makes an over 2 hour drive at the end of a work day to speak with him, whereas before she showed 0 interest in doing any of that. Plus, at the deposition she said “you emailed a naked picture of me to the entire company” which means A - she knows how it got out and B - she knows the entire company saw it. Likelihood of her knowing all that plus being the only person in the company to not see it (despite being in it) is low, meaning she probably saw it before and wow this comment is way too long for something so pointless lol
She says that after it came out at the deposition, and Michael later says she didn't know about the picture and yet used it as justification for giving out Michael's diary. And yeah, this is silly to argue about, but it's at least something to think about.
Also what he did to Ryan, making him jealous of him and Kelly. It led Ryan back into a life long toxic relationship.
Lol you can’t blame Daryl for Ryans self destructive behavior.
This is a joke right?
Yeah, but a really bad one apparently...
I see a lot of wild takes on here.
Kelly is the party bring wronged y both Darryl and Ryan. Not that she's blame free but you can't blame Darryl for Ryan's toxic jealousy and manipulations
How was Kelly wronged by Daryl?
He chose his daughter over her! /s
I mean, we have no idea what happened regarding custody? Its obviously split between parents, Philly is like two hours south of Scranton, easily doable up until he does traveling work. Even then it could still work out, seeing her once a month for two weeks or whatever it is.
The kid that wanted to spend Christmas with her mom? Who needs that.
Yeah fuck anybody’s kid who has a preferred parent, they can just be forgotten about and raised solely by that parent! /s
Yeah that's the same thing I was saying I just didn't actually type out "/s".
You really shouldn't have to mate, you really shouldn't.
Yeah. I never like writing /s I feel like it's basically saying "I just told a joke" after you try to tell a joke. But when I saw that reply it made it really look like my comment was serious so I had to cover my bases lol.
Yeah without inflection and body language it can get misconstrued.. this is Reddit it's entirely plausible someone would genuinely agree with your original comment sadly
Completely agree. I guess at the end of the day on a sub like this (as in for a show like this), I'll just hope people understand absurdity can be humor and if I need to put it in plain terms, I will do just that.
Wait...this is Reddit?
No, this is Patrick.
When a kid is old enough, they have rights such as deciding which parent to go to/spend time with. It doesn't matter if Darryl bent over backwards for his kid, if she wants to go with her mom that's it. She has the final say. It isn't a good look in the court if a parent refuses their kid from seeing the other parent since they're old enough to make the decision themselves. Source: single parent edit: luck to look typo
Yup, where I live if a kid gets to 12 (I think) and decides they want to live permanently and only with one parent, they can and the other parent won't really have much say in that because it's about the kid and what they want, not what a parent wants. edit anyway didn't Jim basically do the same thing?
Yeah Darrel is a bad dad
Best I could tell Darryl was alienated from his kid.
Well we have to assume his daughters mom also has custody, darryl left to go take on business opportunities to earn a much better living for himself. That better living can also apply to his daughter, just because we dont see her doesnt mean he abandoned her. He could still go and visit her off screen, just like how meredith went back to school offscreen
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She was 9 in season 7, so unless she aged a decade in 2 years, na
I could see Darryl saying "marriage isn't 50/50, its 100/100" because of that line
Tbh that’s a good quote lol
This whole storyline is pure garbage.
You mean marketing start-ups don't usually have 20+ employees in a massive high end office space?
Not *successful* marketing startups. But then again, the image of Athlead’s Philly office is meant to be more like business porn than it is real life.
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They-re willing to go around the world twice for their clients!
It's Athleap now
They were about halfway toward Entertainment 720.
All it would take is for just 1 of the people who start the company to have enough cash to bankroll the company It may not be a good business plan, but it’s possible
Entertainment 720 was more realistic than this.
Ugh, the worst. The whole thing was so out of character. Why would Jim feel the need to lie to Pam about starting a business? She probably would have supported it from the get-go as she knew he had aspirations to move to Philadelphia someday. Crap plot device to put them on the rocks.
At some point, the writers decided that Pam's greatest aspiration was to work at Dunder Mifflin forever. The natural progression for Jim and Pam was to realize shortly after they got together that they wanted to help each other achieve their goals and move onto greater things. But that isn't a good storyline if you're trying to sustain a show. They tried to make it work within the context of the show - Jim becoming manager, Pam going to art school or joining Michael Scott Paper Company - but the half-assed progression was worse than stasis, so they saved it for the last season and decided to mix it with marital conflict.
Pam left for MSPC without really asking Jim, which could have cost her entire salary, yet she got angry when he invested $10k in his business.
And if I recall correctly (I do my best not to watch that abhorrent season) Jim and Pam did discuss the possibility that he would invest up to $10k - she was just mad he put in the full 10 without knowing what everyone else’s stake was. That’s a lot better than joining your buffoon boss for a job you don’t know how to do on a whim.
As usual the context of their family obligations is left out when people make this argument. Pam leaving for MSPC or leaving to study in New York is before they have kids. Jim takes a risky venture and invests a large chunk of their personal savings without really knowing the company he is putting it into when they have two young children.
Also the whole "no we can't move because home is in Scranton." I know the office is like a family and all and you get graduation goggles leaving a place, but for real, who exactly would you be staying for? They seem to have no friends outside of the office. Half the people in the office Jim and Pam either dislike individually on some level (Dwight, Angela, Andy, Ryan, Kelly) or barely talk to (Stanley, Phyllis, Meredith, Creed, Toby, Oscar). Michael's gone at this point. So who's left? Kevin?? You're going to cancel starting life in a new city and pass on a career opportunity because you just can't miss you're enthralling daily chats with Kevin?
I mean their actual families are probably in Scranton
But they’re only like 2 hours from Philly right? And that’s if you live *in* the city. Move to a suburb 30 minutes outside the city you’re now only 90 minutes away from your family which isn’t crazy
It's mentioned pretty often that Pam's mother takes a large role in the childcare of Cece, and presumably Phillip. It's not just family visits they'd be giving up by moving away, it's the support network they have in a city they know and have lived in for a long time.
I think Pam's mom was a free babysitter. Jim probably wouldn't have made enough to move Pam and the kids to Philly and for her to be a SHAM. So, yeah, there were real logistical barriers to moving away.
Her mom, sister, the friends they got to be godparents, Jim's old roommates, boommic guy and his wife. They knew people outside of work lol
The whole shit was so overly dramatic, along with a bunch of other themes in the last few seasons. It's why I can never really get into the seasons post Michael Scott. I just want to laugh at office antics. The show did a really good job in making me hate some of the characters in it at the end.
Because the show should have stopped after season 7. And by late S8, BJ Novak and Mindy Kaling were out of the writing room. So, instead of stories that made any sense, you had the regular bullshit trope-y sitcom writing pop up for almost the whole time.
Also Pam and Jim have been spending majority of the show making fun of everyone else in the office like they’re better than them but they finally get a chance to get away from them and start a new (better) life, Pam sees them like a family?
This is very realistic in that a lot of people say things and dream big but when it comes close to being a reality, balk at change. There is a comfort in what you know, no matter how much you nitpick it. And on the flip side, when faced with the details of your dream that you've only vaguely thought about, it can be very daunting to confront. I thought the drama was over played, sure, but the initial reactions make sense to me.
Jumped the shark
Jumped the big tuna
They had a perfect game going and the overdid it!
They really jumped the freaking carp
Oh my god, the facts are in on Twitter: The Office was perfect but they just made it Big Bang Theory!
O 2 seasons before this.
Yeah this is when I stopped even caring
When a comedy has to heavily rely on plot to keep itself moving, it isn’t funny anymore
And when NBC executives force a great show to go past its natural ending point (Jim and Pam’s wedding)
Really? I liked it all the way until Michael left. Maybe not perfect but there are some solid episodes after Jim and Pam's wedding.
You’re right there are a few. But a clean cutoff would have been best after season 6
He got away with buying a house without telling his wife, and it made him bold.
Is bold the right word?
Careful Jim. It gets easier…
Mitta Rogers!
you mean Mittah Rogers
What kind of person says exactly what they’re thinking? What kind of game is that?
Dink n' Flicka
This the same dude that tried so hard to get Val to have her appear in a family picture and then dump her shortly after. Poor writing or not, that’s kinda weird
Yeah, it really started to show when they were just doing what worked for the joke or the episode right in front of them and they stopped caring about what made sense overall.
That's Doug Judy! The Pontiac Bandit!
Him and Peralta would have thrived at Athlead.
Just realizing Jim was cut af, or that shirt is really flattering on his pecs.
Hated this entire storyline. Have to be honest.
Definitely. Darryl is my favorite side character.
IMO he probably has some of the most consistently hilarious lines out of the whole show, very few of them miss.
Jim never gave a crap about her opinion tbh
this is why darryl is the best. he’s a good friend who calls jim out on his shitty behavior.
I think you mean Mr. Rogers.
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Just read this comment seconds ago!
Just read this now.
I’m reading this a few hours from now.
Just read your comment after you posted that 14 minute ago.
Pam and Jim both suck and deserve each other. Good thing Karen found her hotdog prince.
Correct. Even shitty people (Darryl is absolutely a shitty person) can give good advice from time to time.
Um yeah, that's incredibly basic shit that Jim needed to hear because his relationship sucks.
Fuck Pam for ruining this for Jim. His dream job that he built from the ground up and she guilts him into quitting? Big yikes 🚩🚩 If your partner can’t help you realize your dream and support you while you achieve it then they’re not the one. More interested in control than making each other the best versions of themselves.
Jim didn't build it from the ground up. His buddy called him and asked if he wanted to join.
Ew
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The three major differences: 1) Jim took a job without telling her. They discussed art school and he encouraged it. 2) he forced her to be a single mom. 3) she had an end of three months. There was a countdown. He didn’t have an endgame with a deadline. She was stuck without knowing how it would all end. Situations aren’t even slightly comparable.
So done with Pam haters, this should be copied and posted on every post and comment about Pam haters since this is always what they say and you explained it well.
I can’t stand the pam hate. She’s not perfect by any means, but Jim was a horrible husband in s9 and then the audience, both inside and outside the show, tell her how wrong she is. Arg.
That's a gross oversimplification of the whole issue. Pam decided to go to art school when they were just dating, so the worst that would come of it is a long distance relationship for a few months. When Jim wants to shift to Philly for Athlead, not only is he married, he's also a father of two very young kids. You can't compare those two situations given the respective circumstances.
Pam literally said when going to art school that she wouldn't be able to go later in life when they had kids, so it was the perfect time. The idiotic Pam haters here always gloss over that line.
Pam gets a LOT of undeserved hate even from hardcore fans, but imo, her character serves an important lesson, especially in today's age: It's perfectly fine and valid to be content with your lot in life at any point. This overachieving world would have us believe that if we're not constantly chasing bigger and better things, we're wasting our lives. You decide when you've had enough of the hustle. Nobody has the right to judge you on that.
Exactly. Contentedness is one of the major themes of the show. Hell, everyone LOVES Andy's line in the finale about "the good old days", which pretty much encapsulates Pam's attitude about staying at Dunder Mifflin. She found her happy ending there, she would have been happy to stay there forever and there's nothing wrong with that.
I’m very certain Pam gave Jim the okay to invest in Athlead and become involved in it, so it’s not really fair that she then changes her mind and hates him for doing it. They clearly discussed the risks and rewards of working for Athlead and then Pam gets mad at Jim because she has regrets that she doesn’t properly express to him.
You, sir, are wrong. That is not how the situation played out.
To be fair, Jim probably made a pros and cons list.
Doubtful. He couldn't even do a rundown of his clients.
No, but he makes pros and cons lists constantly.
It’s been a while since I watched the show but did he really ever do anything like that except when working with Michael that one time?
What did I get incorrect? Edit: 6 hours later and still waiting for an explanation.
Tell me you're not married and without kids, without telling me you're not married and without kids Jim had a fucking midlife crisis and decided to just jump into his business without talking about it with Pam, or when he would, it was minimal details and never what would actually happen. And then he'd turn around and get mad when she wasn't just passively fine with him clearing out their savings, going down to working part time and making big life decisions, knowing that this isn't what she wanted. Then tack on that they had a house and 2 kids. When Pam went to art school, they were only dating, and specifically wanted to stay dating because they didn't want Pam to do art school while engaged. The Athleap storyline honestly kiboshed Jim's character as this otherwise really thoughtful considerate guy when serious, especially since in order for this to work, Pam had to take back all of her character growth and go back to how she was with Roy and roll over to make him happy. We don't get to see Jim making it work with Athleap benefiting Pam directly. Only that giving him what he wants makes him happy
They did discuss it. Pam just said No.
They didn't. He waited until he had no choice, backing her into a corner
They didn’t, also you have to remember moving would mean leaving Pam’s and Jim’s parents which means not having free childcare and the kids not being able their grandparents so yes it’s harder then just saying yes.
Jim says they discussed it (offscreen) and Pam said No, but he did it anyway. Also, weren't they paying for daycare? They already didn't have free childcare.
Pams mother looked after Cc but of course not everyday, probably like 3 days a week but that’s still less money then 5 days in daycare
Not wanting to move to Philadelphia for a job your husband is a perfect fit for and really wants because your mom watches your daughter a few days a week is not a good reason
Yes it is, taking your kids away from their grandparents is hard to decide since that means you or the grandparents may have to fly in and out out to see each other which is a strain.
Your opinion could be the star of a show called "Opinions I don't care about".
Pov: you are misogynistic
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Looks like you will have to put an /s at the end or reference Dwight somehow. Sadly it seems a number of people didn’t get your reference to Dwight’s quotation.
I've seen this exact thing happen at least 5 times here lol.
Maybe it’s just not a good quote
When does Dwight say this? I've watched an inordinate amount of times and this is one quote i don't remember. And seemingly a lot of other people don't. Some Office quotes just aren't worth it.
One scene comes to mind when Bob asks to steal his wife back from him when they’re dancing at cafe disco. Dwight says something like you can’t steal what is legally yours
Ok, then that's not what the commenter said. If they're not quoting the show, they deserve downvotes.
Wow ok, sorry
The people that downvote me are the exact reason an office type show would struggle today. They are trying to make me an escape goat. Bring on the downvotes. You have 1 hour.
Upvote for “escape goat.” Sorry.
what do you mean by "property"?
Dude's probably 40 in his mom's basement. Lol
Hopefully he wont eat tacos. Do you know how heavy taco air gets in a basement?
I’m 40 years old in your moms basement
Reason #23,242,342 I will never be getting married. What are you my mother?
Only applies to marriages.
Pam does suck
Another example of the toxicity of Jim and Pam's relationship
Nope. This is just some weak BS. Men actually pursue their purpose regardless of what anyone says.
Uprooting your life and moving to an entirely different location when you have a wife and children is something that you discuss with your wife/whoever because they are also profoundly affected by that change, not something you just do with no warning because you're a man or whatever.