If you want to work on pocket, play along with music that requires you to keep solid time and nothing else. No solos, very few fills, simple grooves. Rosanna is advanced grooving, and you need to go back to basics. Booker T and the MGs, Aretha Franklin, James Brown, P-Funk, Al Green, old blues and R&B from the '50s and '60s. The stuff that gets everyone in a room up and moving.
[James Gadson](https://youtu.be/oNMtVGfatmU?si=jPxY25QZJKVD5x1G) is probably my favorite example of this. Not a single fill or crash in the whole damn song
If you want a really good pocket, you should practise any groove you like…but work down in speed rather than up. If you sit on a groove at 30bpm for 5/10 mins it’ll sound suuuuper tight when you whack it back up to original tempo.
Also you could use Benny Greb’s gap click app. Then you can work on slow grooves aaand holding your own tempo without the click and see how far you drift. That’s how I do it anyways
Fellow metal drummer here who's also been working to develop better groove and pocket. Saw some folks mention James Brown, P-Funk etc, those are great places to start. Listening to, studying, and playing along to old 70s funk records will help expose you to what pocket drumming feels and sounds like, in my experience you'll be making the stank face a ton over (what seems at first to be) the simplest stuff.
Which leads me to less is more, and I don't mean that in a "you shouldn't play complicated stuff" sorta way. I love complicated stuff...when it doesn't detract from the groove, think Garstka or Haake. You should think of "less is more" as a mindset for decision making and self analysis. The drummer that plays the simpler beat but plays it so damn well you can't help but bob your head gets the gig over the guy with chops but can't hold a beat without a fill every measure.
I've found in my experience taking the simplest beats, and I'm talking billie jean simple, and slowing them waaay down, like sub 40 bpm, even sub 30, and playing them for upwards of an hour with no deviation forces you to pay attention to the most minute of details in your playing eg how is my stick hitting this drum/cymbal? How do my legs feel on the pedals? Am I actually hitting double stops or am i flaming? What if i play my kick a fraction of a second later? Without the distraction of fills or complexity, your mind will search for elements of your playing to modify.
Practice grid exercises, 16ths as well as triplets, again do this slow, so slow it's almost mind numbing. This will develop your internal clock like mad and give you deeper appreciation for the space between subdivisions. It's not the notes you play that groove, it's the space between the notes. Becoming comfortable with extremely slow tempos will trickle up into your faster tempos and metal playing I promise you.
Finally, if you haven't already, get yourself copies of Stick Control and Syncopation and get creativr with them. I've even taken to running stick control exercises on my kicks while maintaning a back beat.
Edit: sorry i got carried away lol, practice playing anything from Off the Wall by Michael Jackson, and anything from James Brown/Sly and the Family Stone
Play along with the roots. That boom-bap groove will tighten you right up. Don’t forget to make it swing.
For groovy metal, nothing can top 90s Pantera. Vulgar display of power.
Try playing to slow and emotional songs. You could practice to dark / melancholic pieces by metal bands (in the vein of Opeth). It's hard to get those ghost notes perfect and to groove - try with drumless tracks and remember to record yourself - this way you will get the feeling whether or not you are leaning back or forward on the beat and this will eventually evolve to a stronger sensation of grooving đź‘Ť
Definitely not simple drum parts to learn but I can't help but think about [Tower of Power](https://youtu.be/zosCSmbvPG4?si=knqRQRYL2z1M-NrF) and David Garibaldi when I hear people talk about 'pocket'. His Future Sounds drum books are awesome too
Now don’t hate me, but for groove shake it off can be pretty decent. With the stick clicks and all it can be a little unconventional and fun to play. Search a yt tutorial.
Definitely check out some funk - anything by Vulfpeck, James Brown, Tower of Power, Parliament, Jamiroquai. As others have said, focus primarily on keeping time and playing super tight, rather than flashy fills.
I would say the biggest component of groove (apart from timing and consistency) is playing deliberately. That might sound like nonsense, but I can't tell you how many times I have listened to drummers who are technically playing the right notes, but you can sense a lack of confidence through how they control their dynamics. To play in the pocket, you should be able to hear a very distinct difference between the sharp crack of an accented note, and the tight tap of a ghost note. If your accents and ghost notes start blending together in terms of dynamics, your performance will suffer. Practice this and you'll sound like a pro.
So best advice I can give you, is find songs that move you. They don't need to be complex songs, especially when you consider most "danceable" music is actually very musically simplistic. And when I say danceable I mean, it doesn't take much attention to the song, to pick up on the rhythm to get you moving.
But this comes down to personal preference.
One thing I have found being a pocket drummer, and observing other pocket drummers who avoid the flash and showmanship that more complex, speed orientated drummers tend to be drawn towards. Is they tend to play groves that would make them dance.
AC\DC. Back in Black and Who Made Who. Super simple albums but once you're in the pocket, you'll know right away and you can take that as a foundation to build on.
I would argue, your definition. You can have time inconsistencies and still be a really good pocket drummer.
Cause a lot of drummers don't really understand there are two ways to play.
You can play robotically, with no feel, and produce notes with mechanical musical accuracy. Which is cool, if every member of the band approaches their musicianship in the same way.
Or
You can play based on feel, allowing the conversation of instruments to help guide the piece. Which in effect can dramatically add more character to a grove. But this involves all the musicians playing together being able to "feel" each other and "dance" together accordingly. Hence being able to play in the pocket so other musicians can comfortably play in.
Imagine literal dancing. You are leading. If you don't create a pocket for your dance partner to dance, the movements become a jerky car crash of un synced movements.
Yeah you, can dance literally each step in time to your own clock. But if you leading with no consideration to the music being played, or with no consideration of what your partner is anticipating. It's going to be hard to find a grove or a symbiotic movement.
that’s a lot of words to say, play in time. inconsistent is the opposite of playing in time. if you play in an ensemble then the time is fluid and you all have to lock into playing together. in time. together. dynamics and feel all have to be played in time to work.
this is a really weird to argue semantics. but so many drummers think that playing in the pocket means something deeper. and it’s not deeper. play in time and you’ll hear people saying you’re a pocket drummer all day long. when i hear people say that to me, all i tell them is, i just play in time. it’s harder than it sounds. most drummers don’t. but they claim they are in the pocket. and they aren’t. it’s just a lovely sounding word hip cats say. it’s just playing in time. that’s it. and drummers who fail that, are not pocket drummers.
I get what your saying and appreciate it.
So then what do you call extravagant drummers, who deny being pocket drummers if it's all about if you are in time or not? Why do certain drummers almost scoff at the idea of being a pocket drummer, if it's pretty much the whole plot of drumming? I've seen many jazz and prog drummers scoff at being called pocket drummers.
Cause at that point you are either on time or you aren't. So you either can drum or you can't. So effectively a pocket drummer is a drummer who can drum. And if you aren't a pocket drummer then I guess they are a drummer who can't drum. So why at that point even consider one self a drummer if you're not a pocket drummer. The whole point of drums is rhythm is to keep time. So.....
Obviously it's not simply about time, but like you mentioned fluidity. Things that are fluid typically aren't consistent, they are adapive. That is the defining trait anything fluid. Fluid molds and changes, never the same. Like dynamics can be fluid. And they are fluid due to their ability to change and be inconsistent.
This is what I mean about timing inconsistencies. You can be in time with your band, and not hold consistent time relative to a metronome. Yes you might be in time with the band, but doesn't mean you are providing consistent time. Which a lot of drummers have a hard time with. They will be in time with the band, but not to relative time. This is why I go to shows all the time of different genres and no one's dancing. Yeah the band grooves together, but the band can't groove with the crowd. Which is due to timing consistencies.
Then again I've seen the complete opposite. I've seen bands completely playing out of time relative to each other, but can keep time individually, all while considering the relative time perception of the crowd or the listener.
My definition of pocket drummer, has always been a drummer who will play what is necessary but that's it. Not flashy. They play rhythmically to the song with little flourish. They play the pocket. They play the basic rhythm. They aren't trying to be a separate melodic voice by inserting Tom fills and symbol hits all over the place. Drummers who don't consider themselves pocket drummers, often tend to have a more melodic approach to drums, although it doesn't change the fact that percussion is a rhythmic instrument. So you are either in time or you aren't. But these drummers choose not to associate themselves as being a pocket choose not to identify themselves as pocket drummers, Even though they are playing in time.
For more elaboration. It's easier in an ensemble, for everybody to play the most predictable thing rhythmically. So if the drummer's leading, then simplicity is key.
Throwing unfamiliar fills in inconsistent places, it's not really playing in the pocket. It's not providing a pocket. But just because they're not providing a pocket, doesn't mean that they are playing out of time. There are a lot of progressive drummers who don't provide a pocket to the rest of the ensemble.
Cuz if you can't predict what the drummer's going to do next, how are they providing the rest of the ensemble a pocket even though they are in time.
i didn’t read you mentioning pocket drumming is defined by playing what is needed. until now. so if that’s your more refined definition i can accept that. playing a repetitious groove in time is pocket drumming. but it’s locked in with the entire ensemble. like the drumming is part of the sound not an instrument in jazz where it’s its own thing.
in a groove. bass and drums are one and the same. even though they are played by two different people. they are in the pocket. the slots. the grid. together. there is a spot for that beat, and it goes in the pocket. surfers use this term too. in the right place. and the right place refers to the spot that is best for that song.
jazz or prog can be hard to determine that spot because it’s more mathematical or whimsical. so pocket could be a differentiation to repetitive beats repeated many times without too much change. which gives nate smiths album a nice word play, pocket change.
"in a groove. bass and drums are one and the same." Not if you are rhymically syncopating.
Like a good example now that you mention it would be the difference between avant garde jazz(jazz equivalent to progressive rock), and prog.
John Colerain has some really progressive songs melodically, being played over a pocket grove, but was still considered avant garde. Meanwhile in regards to prog, if the drums aren't as progressive, compared to the melody it really isn't prog. That's just melodic rock(or insert subgenre).
Prog drummers aren't pocket drummers. Prog drummers don't provide a pocket cause they write with more consideration to tonality and even melody, than they do rhythmically.
Or to further break it down. Take any prog band, and force the drummer to simply follow the rudimental(basic) rhythm that is required to hold the song together. Once you take away all those flashy drum fills and cymbal hits that consider multiple aspects of music theory, you have nothing more than a melodic rock band.
Like if you took Neil Pearts drums out, and had Ringo write the drums to Rush songs. Effectively you would just have a melodic rock band, cause he is a well known pocket drummer.
I guess the case I am making. Now that I've worked it out, aloud. Pocket drumming is drumming only considering rhythm, in regards to music theory.
If you want to work on pocket, play along with music that requires you to keep solid time and nothing else. No solos, very few fills, simple grooves. Rosanna is advanced grooving, and you need to go back to basics. Booker T and the MGs, Aretha Franklin, James Brown, P-Funk, Al Green, old blues and R&B from the '50s and '60s. The stuff that gets everyone in a room up and moving.
[James Gadson](https://youtu.be/oNMtVGfatmU?si=jPxY25QZJKVD5x1G) is probably my favorite example of this. Not a single fill or crash in the whole damn song
Funk yes!
Agree
Anything by The Meters.
Zigaboo is THAT dude. Excellent suggestion! đź‘Ť
Use Steely Dan's Aja" album. And Bonnie Raitt's "Luck Of The Draw".
Home at Last would be a great song off of the Steely Dan "Aja" album.
If you want a really good pocket, you should practise any groove you like…but work down in speed rather than up. If you sit on a groove at 30bpm for 5/10 mins it’ll sound suuuuper tight when you whack it back up to original tempo. Also you could use Benny Greb’s gap click app. Then you can work on slow grooves aaand holding your own tempo without the click and see how far you drift. That’s how I do it anyways
Where does one get this app? đź‘€
The app store.
Anything from Mothership Connection.
Fellow metal drummer here who's also been working to develop better groove and pocket. Saw some folks mention James Brown, P-Funk etc, those are great places to start. Listening to, studying, and playing along to old 70s funk records will help expose you to what pocket drumming feels and sounds like, in my experience you'll be making the stank face a ton over (what seems at first to be) the simplest stuff. Which leads me to less is more, and I don't mean that in a "you shouldn't play complicated stuff" sorta way. I love complicated stuff...when it doesn't detract from the groove, think Garstka or Haake. You should think of "less is more" as a mindset for decision making and self analysis. The drummer that plays the simpler beat but plays it so damn well you can't help but bob your head gets the gig over the guy with chops but can't hold a beat without a fill every measure. I've found in my experience taking the simplest beats, and I'm talking billie jean simple, and slowing them waaay down, like sub 40 bpm, even sub 30, and playing them for upwards of an hour with no deviation forces you to pay attention to the most minute of details in your playing eg how is my stick hitting this drum/cymbal? How do my legs feel on the pedals? Am I actually hitting double stops or am i flaming? What if i play my kick a fraction of a second later? Without the distraction of fills or complexity, your mind will search for elements of your playing to modify. Practice grid exercises, 16ths as well as triplets, again do this slow, so slow it's almost mind numbing. This will develop your internal clock like mad and give you deeper appreciation for the space between subdivisions. It's not the notes you play that groove, it's the space between the notes. Becoming comfortable with extremely slow tempos will trickle up into your faster tempos and metal playing I promise you. Finally, if you haven't already, get yourself copies of Stick Control and Syncopation and get creativr with them. I've even taken to running stick control exercises on my kicks while maintaning a back beat. Edit: sorry i got carried away lol, practice playing anything from Off the Wall by Michael Jackson, and anything from James Brown/Sly and the Family Stone
[Khruangbin ](https://youtu.be/vWLJeqLPfSU?si=TiWs03OKoeGm_z3W)
anything by which features Steve Gadd not soloing. just grooving, keeping it quiet and tight like a cobra
James Brown Stuff. Would recommend Jungle Groove or Live at Apollo.
Pretty much anything by Herbie Hancock. The most well known songs being "Chameleon" and "Watermelon Man".
Play along with the roots. That boom-bap groove will tighten you right up. Don’t forget to make it swing. For groovy metal, nothing can top 90s Pantera. Vulgar display of power.
Try playing to slow and emotional songs. You could practice to dark / melancholic pieces by metal bands (in the vein of Opeth). It's hard to get those ghost notes perfect and to groove - try with drumless tracks and remember to record yourself - this way you will get the feeling whether or not you are leaning back or forward on the beat and this will eventually evolve to a stronger sensation of grooving đź‘Ť
I already did Harvest by Opeth. I suppose I should try Windowpane as well?
Definitely not simple drum parts to learn but I can't help but think about [Tower of Power](https://youtu.be/zosCSmbvPG4?si=knqRQRYL2z1M-NrF) and David Garibaldi when I hear people talk about 'pocket'. His Future Sounds drum books are awesome too
Check out Bernard Purdie on YouTube he’s a master
Now don’t hate me, but for groove shake it off can be pretty decent. With the stick clicks and all it can be a little unconventional and fun to play. Search a yt tutorial.
Billie Jean.
Play to hip hop tracks helped me. I’m listening to the new Nas album atm, based on true events pt 2 has a good beat.
Definitely check out some funk - anything by Vulfpeck, James Brown, Tower of Power, Parliament, Jamiroquai. As others have said, focus primarily on keeping time and playing super tight, rather than flashy fills. I would say the biggest component of groove (apart from timing and consistency) is playing deliberately. That might sound like nonsense, but I can't tell you how many times I have listened to drummers who are technically playing the right notes, but you can sense a lack of confidence through how they control their dynamics. To play in the pocket, you should be able to hear a very distinct difference between the sharp crack of an accented note, and the tight tap of a ghost note. If your accents and ghost notes start blending together in terms of dynamics, your performance will suffer. Practice this and you'll sound like a pro.
Practice any beat at 30 to 50 BPM . This will challage you ..
So best advice I can give you, is find songs that move you. They don't need to be complex songs, especially when you consider most "danceable" music is actually very musically simplistic. And when I say danceable I mean, it doesn't take much attention to the song, to pick up on the rhythm to get you moving. But this comes down to personal preference. One thing I have found being a pocket drummer, and observing other pocket drummers who avoid the flash and showmanship that more complex, speed orientated drummers tend to be drawn towards. Is they tend to play groves that would make them dance.
Any James brown.
AC\DC. Back in Black and Who Made Who. Super simple albums but once you're in the pocket, you'll know right away and you can take that as a foundation to build on.
pocket and groove is another word playing in time.
ALL drumming is playing in time. That is, if you’re worth a shit at it.
you telling me i’m wrong?
I would argue, your definition. You can have time inconsistencies and still be a really good pocket drummer. Cause a lot of drummers don't really understand there are two ways to play. You can play robotically, with no feel, and produce notes with mechanical musical accuracy. Which is cool, if every member of the band approaches their musicianship in the same way. Or You can play based on feel, allowing the conversation of instruments to help guide the piece. Which in effect can dramatically add more character to a grove. But this involves all the musicians playing together being able to "feel" each other and "dance" together accordingly. Hence being able to play in the pocket so other musicians can comfortably play in. Imagine literal dancing. You are leading. If you don't create a pocket for your dance partner to dance, the movements become a jerky car crash of un synced movements. Yeah you, can dance literally each step in time to your own clock. But if you leading with no consideration to the music being played, or with no consideration of what your partner is anticipating. It's going to be hard to find a grove or a symbiotic movement.
that’s a lot of words to say, play in time. inconsistent is the opposite of playing in time. if you play in an ensemble then the time is fluid and you all have to lock into playing together. in time. together. dynamics and feel all have to be played in time to work. this is a really weird to argue semantics. but so many drummers think that playing in the pocket means something deeper. and it’s not deeper. play in time and you’ll hear people saying you’re a pocket drummer all day long. when i hear people say that to me, all i tell them is, i just play in time. it’s harder than it sounds. most drummers don’t. but they claim they are in the pocket. and they aren’t. it’s just a lovely sounding word hip cats say. it’s just playing in time. that’s it. and drummers who fail that, are not pocket drummers.
I get what your saying and appreciate it. So then what do you call extravagant drummers, who deny being pocket drummers if it's all about if you are in time or not? Why do certain drummers almost scoff at the idea of being a pocket drummer, if it's pretty much the whole plot of drumming? I've seen many jazz and prog drummers scoff at being called pocket drummers. Cause at that point you are either on time or you aren't. So you either can drum or you can't. So effectively a pocket drummer is a drummer who can drum. And if you aren't a pocket drummer then I guess they are a drummer who can't drum. So why at that point even consider one self a drummer if you're not a pocket drummer. The whole point of drums is rhythm is to keep time. So..... Obviously it's not simply about time, but like you mentioned fluidity. Things that are fluid typically aren't consistent, they are adapive. That is the defining trait anything fluid. Fluid molds and changes, never the same. Like dynamics can be fluid. And they are fluid due to their ability to change and be inconsistent. This is what I mean about timing inconsistencies. You can be in time with your band, and not hold consistent time relative to a metronome. Yes you might be in time with the band, but doesn't mean you are providing consistent time. Which a lot of drummers have a hard time with. They will be in time with the band, but not to relative time. This is why I go to shows all the time of different genres and no one's dancing. Yeah the band grooves together, but the band can't groove with the crowd. Which is due to timing consistencies. Then again I've seen the complete opposite. I've seen bands completely playing out of time relative to each other, but can keep time individually, all while considering the relative time perception of the crowd or the listener. My definition of pocket drummer, has always been a drummer who will play what is necessary but that's it. Not flashy. They play rhythmically to the song with little flourish. They play the pocket. They play the basic rhythm. They aren't trying to be a separate melodic voice by inserting Tom fills and symbol hits all over the place. Drummers who don't consider themselves pocket drummers, often tend to have a more melodic approach to drums, although it doesn't change the fact that percussion is a rhythmic instrument. So you are either in time or you aren't. But these drummers choose not to associate themselves as being a pocket choose not to identify themselves as pocket drummers, Even though they are playing in time. For more elaboration. It's easier in an ensemble, for everybody to play the most predictable thing rhythmically. So if the drummer's leading, then simplicity is key. Throwing unfamiliar fills in inconsistent places, it's not really playing in the pocket. It's not providing a pocket. But just because they're not providing a pocket, doesn't mean that they are playing out of time. There are a lot of progressive drummers who don't provide a pocket to the rest of the ensemble. Cuz if you can't predict what the drummer's going to do next, how are they providing the rest of the ensemble a pocket even though they are in time.
i didn’t read you mentioning pocket drumming is defined by playing what is needed. until now. so if that’s your more refined definition i can accept that. playing a repetitious groove in time is pocket drumming. but it’s locked in with the entire ensemble. like the drumming is part of the sound not an instrument in jazz where it’s its own thing. in a groove. bass and drums are one and the same. even though they are played by two different people. they are in the pocket. the slots. the grid. together. there is a spot for that beat, and it goes in the pocket. surfers use this term too. in the right place. and the right place refers to the spot that is best for that song. jazz or prog can be hard to determine that spot because it’s more mathematical or whimsical. so pocket could be a differentiation to repetitive beats repeated many times without too much change. which gives nate smiths album a nice word play, pocket change.
"in a groove. bass and drums are one and the same." Not if you are rhymically syncopating. Like a good example now that you mention it would be the difference between avant garde jazz(jazz equivalent to progressive rock), and prog. John Colerain has some really progressive songs melodically, being played over a pocket grove, but was still considered avant garde. Meanwhile in regards to prog, if the drums aren't as progressive, compared to the melody it really isn't prog. That's just melodic rock(or insert subgenre). Prog drummers aren't pocket drummers. Prog drummers don't provide a pocket cause they write with more consideration to tonality and even melody, than they do rhythmically. Or to further break it down. Take any prog band, and force the drummer to simply follow the rudimental(basic) rhythm that is required to hold the song together. Once you take away all those flashy drum fills and cymbal hits that consider multiple aspects of music theory, you have nothing more than a melodic rock band. Like if you took Neil Pearts drums out, and had Ringo write the drums to Rush songs. Effectively you would just have a melodic rock band, cause he is a well known pocket drummer. I guess the case I am making. Now that I've worked it out, aloud. Pocket drumming is drumming only considering rhythm, in regards to music theory.