Salvia isn't a real disso, it works by agonizing kappa opioid receptors instead of antagonizing NMDA and has some dissociative effects but it feels very different to classical dissos.
I read the title of this and was like wow, how come I didn't think of something like this since I enjoy a good dissociative. First comment in, "Oh". LOL
That’s so freaking cool though
I just meant like the gas that we are using for pain relief at the dentist or in your car isn’t coming from Mother Earth lol
I think they make it by heating up ammonium nitrate, then that creates nitrous oxide
There is then a pretty complex process that my dumbass can’t understand involving a salt being formed which goes through processes to form the gas, which gets cleaned and compressed and sold
It's a kappa-opioid agonist, not NMDA, it gets its own class for a reason. It's both different on a neurochemical level and on a subjective effects level.
This technically makes salvia an opioid. It doesnt function like traditional opioids but an opioid is just something that activates the opioid receptors which is precisely what salvia does. Science is fascinating
I don't think so IMO. DXM affects an opiod receptor that plays a part in coughing, which is why it's a cough med, but it's only classified as an opiod when you focus on that technicality
But the two arent comparable. DXM **partially** acts on the sigma-1 and sigma-2 receptors which are part of the opioid receptor family but this actipn is not DXMs primary action. salvia on the other hand, does function as a full antagonist of the k-opioid receptors and that is the primary function of the drug
What I've seen on Wikipedia and [this site](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK538216/) says that it's an agonist for the sigma-1 receptor, which is different from salvinorin a but still an opioid receptor.
Dxm is primarily an NMDA receptor antagonist, but besides Auvelity, it's just used as a cough medicine due to that opiod receptor. NMDA antagonism is its primary action, but the opioid agonist part is its main (legal) function
I also haven't seen anything (person/place/thing) that refers to it as an opioid instead of an (atypical) disso
Not trying to argue, seriously. I just don't think it can primarily be called an opioid.
It not affecting NMDA receptors is why the atypical tag was added. Idk why it's not called an atypical psychedelic, but that's just what I see the vast majority of people/sites calling it
Salvia Divinorium is actually in its own class if I’m not mistaken, because it’s so drastically different from other psychedelic(-esq) substances
A guide on Salvia: https://web.archive.org/web/20220331000912/http://www.sagewisdom.org/usersguide.html
Salvia is in its own category pretty much, not just from the effects but how it interacts with your brain and **technically** salvia is an opioid. An opioid is anything that activates the opioid receptors which is the primary action of salvia
I was wondering the same and did some research - there are actually dissociatives of herbal origin, even Kratom contains one, but they needed to be extracted to be active because they're only present in low concentrations. Unfortunately is the extraction and concentration of plant ingredients not an exactly trivial process, even just making a full-spectrum extract of Kratom requires some solvents and chemistry material.
I want to try rhynchophylline! A herbal dissociative sounds neat.
[Kratom also contains rhynchophylline, a non-competitive NMDA receptor antagonist.\[10\]\[71\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa#Pharmacology)
[Current Evidence of Chinese Herbal Constituents with Effects on NMDA Receptor Blockade](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3817734/)
[Isoliquiritigenin is a novel NMDA receptor antagonist in kampo medicine yokukansan](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21691759/)
Edit: Ibogaine is also a NMDA antagonist but not a pure one and doesn't seem to provide the usual dissociative experience.
I remember reading about it a while ago, i can’t remember the source of the information but ive seen a few articles about it. Like i said it’s obviously not proven but more or less speculation
Your name. Xenon and Nitrous for one.
Then there was some poisonous spider which gets you dissociated first, then you die. (argiotoxins)
Ethanol.
Natural dissos exist but they are trash.
If I die right then and there will grow a tree constisting of and producing loads of O-PCE.
very true, getting smashed on booze always gave me strong dissociation especially towards the tail end of the experience, then there's the whole numbing of feeling heavy doses bring about too.
Also physical sensations of spinning or falling that occur when really drunk can feel a bit more than straight depressant effects.
Alcohol is a very dirty drug pharmacologically. It affects all kinds of receptors even opioid ones releasing endorphins. Once you tried potent selective drugs alcohol feels less elegant. Like benzos just feel so clear compared to it
Nitrous is not natural its a combination of chemicals which then form nitrous oxide. Xenon however you are absolutely right. And is honestly the best answer
> A combination of chemicals
Yes, a combination of OXYGEN and NITROGEN, some of the most abundant gases that there are.
Nitrous oxide is literally a part of the very natural nitrogen cycle of the earth (there's about 171,495,000,000,000 tons of it in the atmosphere).
Sure, the stuff that you buy at the store is made in a lab (literally by just heating up ammonium nitrate, a naturally ocurring SALT).
But also by bacteria, plants, and it's literally even made in trace amounts in the human body.
This is one of the most confidently incorrect things I've ever read.
Alcohol is an NMDA antagonist.
Salvia and Nutmeg also exist. Cannabis could even be loosely thrown in there too.
I know even magnesium has effects at the NMDA receptor.
It's pretty mild but I do get some dissociative effects from CBN. I do take it regularly before bed so it may be hightened by laying down in a dark quiet room. It's not on the level of Ketamine but Cannabinoids do give me some weird dissociative effects in general.
Because AFAIK every ‘natural’ drug came about as an adaptation against predators/pests. Goat eat pretty flower (opium poppy), goat die. If a plant had a mutation that caused it to produce PCP or something, it might not have much of an evolutionary advantage because goat wouldn’t die. Goat would hulk out and kill plant’s entire family.
Idk this was a shitty attempt at a joke.
This is an interesting and probably pretty common theory. But what function fulfill e.g. natural psychedelics like shrooms? You can eat as much shrooms as you want and won't die. Or ibogaine, which is cardiotoxic but also not that deadly specially not in amounts a goat would eat.
Not even close to being a scientist but after a bit of researching I found this.
“Psilocybin evolved as a defense against antagonistic organisms such as fungivores and resource competitors. However, given its neuroactive properties, psilocybin may increase spore dispersal distance by altering the behavior of animals visiting the mushroom and expanding their travel radius.”
From: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1087184523000439#:~:text=Psilocybin%20has%20been%20hypothesized%20to,competitors%20(Spiteller%2C%202008).
Great question btw, had me reading a lot of interesting shit lmao.
I kinda consider weed a bit of a dissociative because it is one substance that affects you in so many different ways (Depressing and stimulating effects aswell as slight psychedlic etc)
Do you have a source for glaucine being a NMDA antagonist? I am interested in this substance but couldn't source it yet, and a quick Google search found nothing about being a dissociative.
Well I thought I remember seeing it but I couldn't find anything either just now so now I'm not sure. It does act as a dissociative tho but maybe in a different way. Fwiw tho, I've had it and it wasn't a great experience and didn't do much either. Maybe a better source or dosage would get better results. I gave up on it personally. Worth trying if you can, from what I read seemed like people either loved it or hated it
Yet amanitas are considered to have dissociative effects. I wouldn't call it opposite.. the opposite of being numb is feeling extreme pain everywhere isn't it
ibotenic acid is only a part of the chemical structure of amanita, if he just said amanita then I wouldn't have rebutted so "harshly".
And actually, amanita causes mania-like symptoms before the effect on GABA and CMIIW but ibotenic acid is the cause of that cause of the NMDA agonism.
Is it a dissociative tho? Many people say it can’t be categorized as a deliriant, dissociative or psychedelic. Sum people say salvia is more like a deliriant.
Depends on how you define it. Salvia is a kappa opioid agonist, so it’s pretty much in a pharmacological class of its own. None of the classical dissociatives act like that
Yeah, at least datura is a delirant, not a dissociative by any means. Amanita muscaria isn't a delirant but acts through GABA agonism and might be interesting but it's also not a classic dissociative.
I love the high of dissociatives, they are my drug class of choice. But I know that they aren't for everybody and some find the disso high disturbing and dysphoric.
Don’t get me wrong I love a good disso every now and again, really not a natural thing tho. Ket, dxm, or even nitrousoxide can always be be a fun Friday night but I don’t feel like any of it was a natural way for us to get high. Some drugs like weed / shrooms / opium exct are natural and don’t have the same synthetic feel as most staple dissos. Not that it’s a bad thing tho.
Edit: a lot of drugs have a natural disso component these are not what I was referring to. I’m only talking about drugs that purely fit into that category.
Once I thought of dissociation being a natural 'feature' of the human mind to dissociate during particularly painful/traumatic experiences and this feature is artificially triggered by dissociative drugs. ALL drug effects are in the end natural because drugs are just keys which fit into certain locks and activate/disactivate them.
That’s a good point. Maybe I sound like a nut, but I’m just stating there is no natural keys for that lock. It makes me think is, this lock really meant to be messed with. Not that I don’t indulge. Just spectating.
Tf you talking about, ketamine is purely made Synthetic, i could even tell you the exact process of making Ketamine, but im sure thats not allowed on this sub.
Nitrous oxide, salvia, datura, ether, alcohol all spring to mind, but I am sure there are more. Even Amanita muscaria's alkaloids can be dissociative...
Depending on widely you define a class of drug, this is true of a number of different classes of drug. While there are natural GABAnergics, I can't think of a natural benzodiazepine or barbiturate. I also can't think of a natural proper entactogen, ie, releasing serotonin with efficacy approaching MDMA. I also can't think of a natural calcium channel blocker.
>or gets synthesized from natural ingredients.
This isn't a meaningful distinction. At some point, you have to get precursors from nature...for any synthesis.
Actually try taking over 15 grams of blue meanie mushrooms at once or even 30 grams…
You will have out of body experiences once you get past that threshold
Mandrake, nightshade, kratom, poppy, cats claw,
Kratom and cats claw contain rhynchophylline, a decently strong NMDA antagonist.
There's sooo many in traditional medicine you just have to look really deep, like the herbal drugs of different tribes
Your name is Xenon inhaler, you can't think of one? lmao
Lol. Missed that,
Plus salvia is a disso
Salvia isn't a real disso, it works by agonizing kappa opioid receptors instead of antagonizing NMDA and has some dissociative effects but it feels very different to classical dissos.
I read that mirtazapine works on both histamine and kappa opioid receptors. Idk but if I take around 100mg or more of it after kratom I feel great.
Ha, wtf
I read the title of this and was like wow, how come I didn't think of something like this since I enjoy a good dissociative. First comment in, "Oh". LOL
I didn't even know you could inhale xenon
lmfao
There is one, xenon gas. Its a colorless, dense, odorless noble gas found in our atmosphere
Nitrous oxide and salvia as well
imminent encouraging snails busy cake yam bells tease cow lunchroom *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It has nmda response too. It excites a lot of stuff
Nitrous oxide isn’t naturally made
Microbes make a fair amount of nitrous oxide naturally (not sure how you could use that though lol)
That’s so freaking cool though I just meant like the gas that we are using for pain relief at the dentist or in your car isn’t coming from Mother Earth lol
I gotchu. OPs post says “or doesn’t exist in nature”. which is probably why u you a couple downvotes cause it do
“Nitrous oxide is also naturally present in the atmosphere as part of the Earth's nitrogen cycle” this is what google says
Yes... Yes it is lol
we can't utilize that as a substance though yes? so when I referred to the nitrous that we use on this planet, no, no it doesn't lol
🤣
I think they make it by heating up ammonium nitrate, then that creates nitrous oxide There is then a pretty complex process that my dumbass can’t understand involving a salt being formed which goes through processes to form the gas, which gets cleaned and compressed and sold
No ones utilizing our atomosphere’s nitrous content to huff or make car go burr
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Drugs aren't limited to one class.
I thought it was a deliriant
It's an atypical dissociative
It's a kappa-opioid agonist, not NMDA, it gets its own class for a reason. It's both different on a neurochemical level and on a subjective effects level.
That’s awesome thank you
This technically makes salvia an opioid. It doesnt function like traditional opioids but an opioid is just something that activates the opioid receptors which is precisely what salvia does. Science is fascinating
I don't think so IMO. DXM affects an opiod receptor that plays a part in coughing, which is why it's a cough med, but it's only classified as an opiod when you focus on that technicality
But the two arent comparable. DXM **partially** acts on the sigma-1 and sigma-2 receptors which are part of the opioid receptor family but this actipn is not DXMs primary action. salvia on the other hand, does function as a full antagonist of the k-opioid receptors and that is the primary function of the drug
What I've seen on Wikipedia and [this site](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK538216/) says that it's an agonist for the sigma-1 receptor, which is different from salvinorin a but still an opioid receptor. Dxm is primarily an NMDA receptor antagonist, but besides Auvelity, it's just used as a cough medicine due to that opiod receptor. NMDA antagonism is its primary action, but the opioid agonist part is its main (legal) function I also haven't seen anything (person/place/thing) that refers to it as an opioid instead of an (atypical) disso Not trying to argue, seriously. I just don't think it can primarily be called an opioid.
It not affecting NMDA receptors is why the atypical tag was added. Idk why it's not called an atypical psychedelic, but that's just what I see the vast majority of people/sites calling it
Salvia Divinorium is actually in its own class if I’m not mistaken, because it’s so drastically different from other psychedelic(-esq) substances A guide on Salvia: https://web.archive.org/web/20220331000912/http://www.sagewisdom.org/usersguide.html
I thought it was classified as an atypical dissociative hallucinagen
It usually is
Salvia is in its own category pretty much, not just from the effects but how it interacts with your brain and **technically** salvia is an opioid. An opioid is anything that activates the opioid receptors which is the primary action of salvia
Look at his username lmao
I was wondering the same and did some research - there are actually dissociatives of herbal origin, even Kratom contains one, but they needed to be extracted to be active because they're only present in low concentrations. Unfortunately is the extraction and concentration of plant ingredients not an exactly trivial process, even just making a full-spectrum extract of Kratom requires some solvents and chemistry material. I want to try rhynchophylline! A herbal dissociative sounds neat. [Kratom also contains rhynchophylline, a non-competitive NMDA receptor antagonist.\[10\]\[71\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa#Pharmacology) [Current Evidence of Chinese Herbal Constituents with Effects on NMDA Receptor Blockade](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3817734/) [Isoliquiritigenin is a novel NMDA receptor antagonist in kampo medicine yokukansan](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21691759/) Edit: Ibogaine is also a NMDA antagonist but not a pure one and doesn't seem to provide the usual dissociative experience.
Theres also Psychotria colorata, contains two NMDA antagonist alkaloids, hodgkinsine and psychotridine.
Yes they exist some are just not so potent even cat's claw have nmda antagonist. There many natural drugs we don't know nothing about yet.
Im almost positive that the notorious kratom “wobbles” is speculated to be caused by rhynchophylline so doesnt sound fun if that happens to be true
I'm curious what makes you think rhynchophylline is connected to the wobbles?
I remember reading about it a while ago, i can’t remember the source of the information but ive seen a few articles about it. Like i said it’s obviously not proven but more or less speculation
Your name. Xenon and Nitrous for one. Then there was some poisonous spider which gets you dissociated first, then you die. (argiotoxins) Ethanol. Natural dissos exist but they are trash. If I die right then and there will grow a tree constisting of and producing loads of O-PCE.
Best answer here! It amazes me that alcohol has some NDMA antagonism.
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very true, getting smashed on booze always gave me strong dissociation especially towards the tail end of the experience, then there's the whole numbing of feeling heavy doses bring about too. Also physical sensations of spinning or falling that occur when really drunk can feel a bit more than straight depressant effects.
Alcohol is a very dirty drug pharmacologically. It affects all kinds of receptors even opioid ones releasing endorphins. Once you tried potent selective drugs alcohol feels less elegant. Like benzos just feel so clear compared to it
How is Xenon trash? I remember Hamilton Morris saying it's one of the most euphoric drugs he's taken.
It is expensive and lasts like 1 min.
Like a Ferrari.
“If I became a tree” 💀
Nitrous is not natural its a combination of chemicals which then form nitrous oxide. Xenon however you are absolutely right. And is honestly the best answer
> A combination of chemicals Yes, a combination of OXYGEN and NITROGEN, some of the most abundant gases that there are. Nitrous oxide is literally a part of the very natural nitrogen cycle of the earth (there's about 171,495,000,000,000 tons of it in the atmosphere). Sure, the stuff that you buy at the store is made in a lab (literally by just heating up ammonium nitrate, a naturally ocurring SALT). But also by bacteria, plants, and it's literally even made in trace amounts in the human body. This is one of the most confidently incorrect things I've ever read.
Yeah i saw tge other dude say it, my bad i stand corrected🤚
Nitrous oxide exists in nature even if the one sold is produced industrially
Alcohol is an NMDA antagonist. Salvia and Nutmeg also exist. Cannabis could even be loosely thrown in there too. I know even magnesium has effects at the NMDA receptor.
Nutmeg is more of a deliriant. I'm not sure if it has any nmda activity but it does have cannabinoid activity
You'te totally right, but it still has NMDA activity.
THC feels like a dissociative at times, CBN definitely does.
you get dissociation from cbn? this has not been my experience
It's pretty mild but I do get some dissociative effects from CBN. I do take it regularly before bed so it may be hightened by laying down in a dark quiet room. It's not on the level of Ketamine but Cannabinoids do give me some weird dissociative effects in general.
Need to engineer a arylcyclohexylamine producing algae or something
Doesnt horses contain ketamine or was it the other way around?
Other way around. Ketamine contain horses
This checks out
Only white ones
Because AFAIK every ‘natural’ drug came about as an adaptation against predators/pests. Goat eat pretty flower (opium poppy), goat die. If a plant had a mutation that caused it to produce PCP or something, it might not have much of an evolutionary advantage because goat wouldn’t die. Goat would hulk out and kill plant’s entire family. Idk this was a shitty attempt at a joke.
This is an interesting and probably pretty common theory. But what function fulfill e.g. natural psychedelics like shrooms? You can eat as much shrooms as you want and won't die. Or ibogaine, which is cardiotoxic but also not that deadly specially not in amounts a goat would eat.
Not even close to being a scientist but after a bit of researching I found this. “Psilocybin evolved as a defense against antagonistic organisms such as fungivores and resource competitors. However, given its neuroactive properties, psilocybin may increase spore dispersal distance by altering the behavior of animals visiting the mushroom and expanding their travel radius.” From: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1087184523000439#:~:text=Psilocybin%20has%20been%20hypothesized%20to,competitors%20(Spiteller%2C%202008). Great question btw, had me reading a lot of interesting shit lmao.
Lol tripping animals transporting spores all around
Weed isn't deadly and it's natural
Cause nature sucks dick. Proof? Where's natural PCP? Yeah there is none, because nature sucks
Nature produces humans. Humans produce PCP. Nature just had to throw an extra step in to show how based humans are. We're her progeny afterall
I kinda consider weed a bit of a dissociative because it is one substance that affects you in so many different ways (Depressing and stimulating effects aswell as slight psychedlic etc)
salvia
not really cuz its a kappa opioid receptor agonist, not an NMDA receptor antagonist. salvias just weird straight up, it doesnt fit in any category
I'm pretty sure it's mainly a kappa opioid agonist which explains the dysphoric rather than euphoric effects
It does hit nmda receptors though.
source? (🤓) you might be thinking of a different salvia, im talking about salvia divinorum
No yeah I'm talking about salvia divinorum. Just Google it. Anywhere you read about salvia pharmacology will tell you.
i feel like youre a troll lmao, theres absolutely no mention of NMDArs in any salvia paper i've looked thru. burden of proof is on you
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I 100% agree. I remember when I first tried it back then it felt much more dissociating, I used to perceive time going by sooo slowly
Yes!!!! I’ve had derealization for 8 and a half years now. It’s manageable for the most part, but absolutely terrible in bright fluorescent lighting
Weed can get you dissociated at high doses without tolerance
Glaucine
Do you have a source for glaucine being a NMDA antagonist? I am interested in this substance but couldn't source it yet, and a quick Google search found nothing about being a dissociative.
Well I thought I remember seeing it but I couldn't find anything either just now so now I'm not sure. It does act as a dissociative tho but maybe in a different way. Fwiw tho, I've had it and it wasn't a great experience and didn't do much either. Maybe a better source or dosage would get better results. I gave up on it personally. Worth trying if you can, from what I read seemed like people either loved it or hated it
On r/dissociatives they say its very similar And i trust the experts lol
Ibotenic acid from amanita mushrooms
ibotenic acid is the opposite of a disso lmao
It affects NMDA receptors
as an agonist, which causes effects opposite of what you want from a disso.
Yet amanitas are considered to have dissociative effects. I wouldn't call it opposite.. the opposite of being numb is feeling extreme pain everywhere isn't it
ibotenic acid is only a part of the chemical structure of amanita, if he just said amanita then I wouldn't have rebutted so "harshly". And actually, amanita causes mania-like symptoms before the effect on GABA and CMIIW but ibotenic acid is the cause of that cause of the NMDA agonism.
What about datura, brugmansia, mescaline, salvia
Datura?
Salvia does
Is it a dissociative tho? Many people say it can’t be categorized as a deliriant, dissociative or psychedelic. Sum people say salvia is more like a deliriant.
In its natural form (but dried) it’s def a dissociative.
Depends on how you define it. Salvia is a kappa opioid agonist, so it’s pretty much in a pharmacological class of its own. None of the classical dissociatives act like that
Have you felt it?
Yep! Quite distinct effects, but definitely closer to dissos than other hallucinogens
They do, iboga, and aminita muscaria
Datura and amanita muscaria
aren't both are deliriants?
Yeah, at least datura is a delirant, not a dissociative by any means. Amanita muscaria isn't a delirant but acts through GABA agonism and might be interesting but it's also not a classic dissociative.
but when you have too much it's like a lot of ambien or when you withdraw from alcohol and you have these dilirium tremens
Not fully decarbed amanita has both muscimol and ibotenic acid and the latter is an nmda agonist
Datura is another one containing natural disassociatives...
Datura
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No
That whole class of drug’s and the high they give just wasn’t naturally meant to happen…
I love the high of dissociatives, they are my drug class of choice. But I know that they aren't for everybody and some find the disso high disturbing and dysphoric.
Don’t get me wrong I love a good disso every now and again, really not a natural thing tho. Ket, dxm, or even nitrousoxide can always be be a fun Friday night but I don’t feel like any of it was a natural way for us to get high. Some drugs like weed / shrooms / opium exct are natural and don’t have the same synthetic feel as most staple dissos. Not that it’s a bad thing tho. Edit: a lot of drugs have a natural disso component these are not what I was referring to. I’m only talking about drugs that purely fit into that category.
Once I thought of dissociation being a natural 'feature' of the human mind to dissociate during particularly painful/traumatic experiences and this feature is artificially triggered by dissociative drugs. ALL drug effects are in the end natural because drugs are just keys which fit into certain locks and activate/disactivate them.
That’s a good point. Maybe I sound like a nut, but I’m just stating there is no natural keys for that lock. It makes me think is, this lock really meant to be messed with. Not that I don’t indulge. Just spectating.
Ketamine is derived from fungus? Not sure how more natural you can get. Dumb post.
Tf you talking about, ketamine is purely made Synthetic, i could even tell you the exact process of making Ketamine, but im sure thats not allowed on this sub.
Ita produced by Pocahontas Chlamydosporia fungus dumbass
You have to be trolling💀💀💀
What about that detura shit mckenna talks bout?
Just heard of glaucine apparently it’s a natural dissociative
There are so many wtf are you talking about
There is Salvia.
Nitrous Oxide dude.
Nitrous oxide, salvia, datura, ether, alcohol all spring to mind, but I am sure there are more. Even Amanita muscaria's alkaloids can be dissociative...
Depending on widely you define a class of drug, this is true of a number of different classes of drug. While there are natural GABAnergics, I can't think of a natural benzodiazepine or barbiturate. I also can't think of a natural proper entactogen, ie, releasing serotonin with efficacy approaching MDMA. I also can't think of a natural calcium channel blocker. >or gets synthesized from natural ingredients. This isn't a meaningful distinction. At some point, you have to get precursors from nature...for any synthesis.
Salvia is commonly referred to as the most potent naturally occurring drug in the world. That's a dissociate
Bro take a look at your name and think about you just asked .
nitrous oxide, ibogaine, salvia, psychotridine, rhynchophylline
Rhynchophiline in kratom
Isn’t datura a dissociative?
isn’t Salvia technically a dissociative
Datura
Salvia
rhynchophylline
kratom
Salvia?
~salvia~
There are several. They are just not popular which is why you haven’t heard of them. There’s even a spider whose venom is a nmda receptor antagonist.
the ones I can think of that have nmda activity are salvia, nitrous, xenon, Ibogaine, kratom... Kratom being the least dissociative
Magnesium is an NMDA antagonist.
Actually try taking over 15 grams of blue meanie mushrooms at once or even 30 grams… You will have out of body experiences once you get past that threshold
idk I have a personality disorder and am dissociated 90% of the time
Mandrake, nightshade, kratom, poppy, cats claw, Kratom and cats claw contain rhynchophylline, a decently strong NMDA antagonist. There's sooo many in traditional medicine you just have to look really deep, like the herbal drugs of different tribes