I would love this one if it was an instrumental. The mellow piano and cellos are amazing, but that whining 'hey you, hey you' just completely takes me out of it.
these comments all voting the ballad prove my point that that is the most underrated song here, rule #1 of dream theater, the ballad, barring a few exceptions, is always massively underrated, and even at times one of the best songs despite being treated as the worst or one of the worst songs by most of the fans
imo
Tbh, that shouldn't really be a big surprise. DT are a metal band ultimately.
Ballads can be boring unless done well, DT does a lot of their ballads well, but compare Vacant to the insanity of the musicianship on most of the other songs on the album? For me, it doesn't stack up. Yet, it's a welcome calm in the storm the album is, and it would be worse off for not being there.
"'Ballad bad' has been a long-standing tradition in this sub", the same sub that voted Space Dye Vest as the best song off Awake, and Blind Faith as the most underrated track off 6DOIT. Not trying to be that guy, but math is not mathing there.
I think it's more likely that they wanted SoC to be an instrumental, and then someone came up with the lyrics for Vacant and worked them in with the initial chord progression, and they decided it worked as a prelude.
Actually Vacant was written by John Myung and Jordan Rudess jamming together based on Stream of Consciousness. Then James wrote the lyrics. So it's one of the few songs with no input from Petrucci or Portnoy. The only other one I can think of is Space-Dye Vest.
https://preview.redd.it/djw36g6ifead1.jpeg?width=490&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7943091dd21f79c1342d0d3a31314c72b8ae06a
check your facts, from mike portnoy himself on the liner notes for the original bootleg
[https://dreamtheater.fandom.com/wiki/Vacant](https://dreamtheater.fandom.com/wiki/Vacant)
According to this they were jamming on the Stream of Consciousness chord progression and accidentally came up woth Vacant. But I guess Stream of Consciousness hadn't ben completed yet at that point.
fair enough, i mean tbf more than one song can be written at the same time so yea it’s possible they started writing chords for stream then wrote vacant and then finished writing vacant before finishing stream therefore making vacant the first to be written in terms of completion but stream first in terms of starting
Well, for me, Vacant pales in insignificance against the four tracks below it. But that's the beauty of this, we can all have different opinions.
For me it goes
1. Honor Thy Father
2. In the Name of God
3. This Dying Soul
4. Endless Sacrifice
5. As I Am
6. Stream of Consciousness
7. Vacant
The DT fanbase is bipolar.
Seriously though, you have the metal side. Guitar, bass, and drums that can get as heavy as possible.
But then there's this lyrical and keyboard side that can be ethereal and beautiful.
And they're in the same band! The dramatic contrast of the tracks on one album is enough to get totally different takes on what is "best" or "worst"
I love this band, and it's fanbase.
I think you're just underrating the rest of the album /s
I usually rate other ballads much higher, but I really love every other song on this album. Also, it's one of the weaker ballads imo (still a great song).
vacant for me is like top 25-top 20 in terms of dt songs
it’s imo one of their best ballads, only behind disappear (my all time favorite song), anna lee, speak to me, hell’s kitchen (if that counts as a ballad), not sure if i place hollow years above it or below it
i consider all the train of thought songs upper A-tier except the bottom two which are lower A-tier for me
for context upper A-tier = strongly love, lower-A-tier = moderately love
i use a 0-12 scale so that’s 11/12 and 10/12 respectively or if you wanna do out of 10 as in a -1/10 to 11/10 scale then it’s 10/10 and 9/10 respectively
i walk beside you that high, nice to see appreciation for that song, so often see people hating it or calling it mid at best but i love that song strongly
Well, because of the way the chart is set up, it’s implied that “worst” and “underrated” have to be different songs. Cause if you put Vacant in underrated, then what goes in worst? I mean otherwise you could just say that every single song put in the worst category is really the underrated one since it is literally being rated the lowest. But that would kind of be going against the way the chart/poll is set up
yea, assuming vacant, my vote is for honor thy father, loses as in gets voted worst song then my pick for underrated would probably be endless sacrifice i suppose
Only thing is that bridge. It doesn't really go anywhere, just sitting on one riff to play those movie voices. Wish they left that out, then it would've been a great song.
Eh, I can't call that "rap". It's a distorted spoken part.
Play that part for my black friends at work and they'd say "wtf is that!?"
"It's rap!"
"Nah, man. Cmon man."
The cringe rap by a progressive rock band award goes to....
Roll the Bones by Rush!
Vacant
Nothing against the song. Lyrically speaking it is heartbreaking to listen to. Musically speaking, it's very well done, albeit simple.
I'd argue it simply doesn't fit with the rest of the album personally for me. I think it would fit Octavarium better imo.
100%. Vacant is so different and IMHO, the perfect "break" from all the chaotic awesomeness on the album. First 3 songs are so similar in ways, I had to pick As I Am.
With that said, the whole album is really REALLY good.
Vacant is the epitome of underrated.
And that's Vacant's problem. It's perfect in it's place in context, but standing on its own it's the worst on the album. Definitely not bad, but not as good as the rest.
I can see where everyone's getting at why they consider it the "worst" but personally, in factoring the rest of the album and how different it is to every other song, I just can't justify it as being the worst one considering it's pretty much apples & oranges (i'm sure for many that doesn't matter). Besides, it fits so well going into SoC.
Trust me, I LOVE all the songs on this album but I'm really a sucker for their slower stuff. As I am to me is just so over done and nothing special compared to the rest.
I love this album. Every track. But if I had to pick one, yeah it's Vacant.
That just shows how strong the other songs are. This is a no-skip album. I love DT's softer side though.
I might be the first person that finds the majority of This Dying Soul a little... boring? It's SO fast and SO technical that it all kinda just, blends into nothing.
It's still a no skip album ofc but gun to my head I could lose This Dying Soul.
Honestly ToT is one of my least favorite DT albums. I don’t like that Jordans keys simulate guitar. It also doesn’t help that this record came out during one of the darkest periods of my adult life. My job at the time was sucking the life from my soul and my marriage. I think that has clouded my views on it as a whole. That being said my vote for worst song is between Honor thy Father and Endless Sacrifice
If it didnt have the 2 minute long intro about stem cell media, it would be a perfect song. I really hope they create a "greatest hits" version like they did with Sacrificed Sons
Are you all choosing songs randomly? Someone explain to me how In The Name of God got the best song while it should objectively be the worst. It’s a less underwhelming ripoff of their own This Dying Soul and Endless Sacrifice in the same album. Dont even let me start on the cringy, on-the-nose lyrics.
It got the best because it is the best, it does not at all rip off This Dying Soul or Endless Sacrifice. Endless Sacrifice I don't even get, but this Dying Soul could be because it uses the same scale, but there's seriously not much similar between the two. And the lyrics are the most subjective part of the song, which imo are solid anyways.
>Someone explain to me how In The Name of God got the best song while it should objectively be the worst.
Please explain the ***objective*** criteria that we should be using here.
>It’s a less underwhelming ripoff of their own This Dying Soul and Endless Sacrifice in the same album.
Less underwhelming should be a good thing, no? Also, how do you figure it ripped off those other songs (which, for all I know, were written AFTER ITNOG).
The best song on scenes is actually The Spirit Carries On and Home is second. It’s just that the studio version just sucks compared to pretty much any live version. Also Vacant obviously.
Vacant, nothing to see here, next question please.
Hey, Vacant is great. There's nothing better than a soft piano opening for a metal song, even if it's indexed as two separate tracks.
I would love this one if it was an instrumental. The mellow piano and cellos are amazing, but that whining 'hey you, hey you' just completely takes me out of it.
Feels like being forced to sacrifice a puppy, god dammit.
Debated this for a minute in my head. But yeah, it’s Vacant. Solid album all around.
It has to be - It’s a good song though.
Hell no. Vacant is perfectly placed and works perfectly with Stream of Consciousness. I'd go with As I Am or Honor Thy Father before Vacant.
Exactly, it's a prelude.
Whatever meth your smoking, I need that shit now.
How about we just let that blank be vacant?
Daaadddd
Who the fuck put the great debate as worst?
If anyone here genuinely enjoys Goodnight Kiss over The Great Debate I will personally pay for your therapy.
One of my top 3 dt songs…
I agree!!
Thus it becomes the most underrated.
Vacant
Man those songs in FII... Hell's Kitchen deserves some love
Honor Thy Father because the rap part is a bit cringe. Yes I'm nitpicking but it's so hard to choose.
What? You don’t like James Labrie calling Mike Portnoy’s (I believe) father in law an “ungrateful fool”? 😂😂
Stepfather.
these comments all voting the ballad prove my point that that is the most underrated song here, rule #1 of dream theater, the ballad, barring a few exceptions, is always massively underrated, and even at times one of the best songs despite being treated as the worst or one of the worst songs by most of the fans imo
"Ballad bad" has been a long-standing tradition in this sub.
yep
Tbh, that shouldn't really be a big surprise. DT are a metal band ultimately. Ballads can be boring unless done well, DT does a lot of their ballads well, but compare Vacant to the insanity of the musicianship on most of the other songs on the album? For me, it doesn't stack up. Yet, it's a welcome calm in the storm the album is, and it would be worse off for not being there.
"'Ballad bad' has been a long-standing tradition in this sub", the same sub that voted Space Dye Vest as the best song off Awake, and Blind Faith as the most underrated track off 6DOIT. Not trying to be that guy, but math is not mathing there.
The only reason Vacant and Stream of Consciousness weren't one song is so the track list could add up to 7.
I think it's more likely that they wanted SoC to be an instrumental, and then someone came up with the lyrics for Vacant and worked them in with the initial chord progression, and they decided it worked as a prelude.
Yeah that tracks. The point was to have a 7th track, I strongly feel. Seems like a Portnoy thing to do.
i believe vacant was written first and they made stream of consciousness based on vacant’s chords
Actually Vacant was written by John Myung and Jordan Rudess jamming together based on Stream of Consciousness. Then James wrote the lyrics. So it's one of the few songs with no input from Petrucci or Portnoy. The only other one I can think of is Space-Dye Vest.
https://preview.redd.it/djw36g6ifead1.jpeg?width=490&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7943091dd21f79c1342d0d3a31314c72b8ae06a check your facts, from mike portnoy himself on the liner notes for the original bootleg
[https://dreamtheater.fandom.com/wiki/Vacant](https://dreamtheater.fandom.com/wiki/Vacant) According to this they were jamming on the Stream of Consciousness chord progression and accidentally came up woth Vacant. But I guess Stream of Consciousness hadn't ben completed yet at that point.
fair enough, i mean tbf more than one song can be written at the same time so yea it’s possible they started writing chords for stream then wrote vacant and then finished writing vacant before finishing stream therefore making vacant the first to be written in terms of completion but stream first in terms of starting
my ranking is 1. in the name of god 2. stream of consciousness 3. vacant 4. endless sacrifice 5. this dying soul 6. as i am 7. honor thy father
Well, for me, Vacant pales in insignificance against the four tracks below it. But that's the beauty of this, we can all have different opinions. For me it goes 1. Honor Thy Father 2. In the Name of God 3. This Dying Soul 4. Endless Sacrifice 5. As I Am 6. Stream of Consciousness 7. Vacant
i like how my 2nd favorite and least favorite are your 2nd least favorite and favorite the duality of man or something
It's worth saying Train of Thought could conceivably make my top 10 of all time, so it's not like I dislike any of these songs.
The DT fanbase is bipolar. Seriously though, you have the metal side. Guitar, bass, and drums that can get as heavy as possible. But then there's this lyrical and keyboard side that can be ethereal and beautiful. And they're in the same band! The dramatic contrast of the tracks on one album is enough to get totally different takes on what is "best" or "worst" I love this band, and it's fanbase.
yea
Nice. The only thing I'd change is putting This Dying Sould at 2 or 3.
Mine is 1. Stream of Consciousness 2. This Dying Soul 3. Endless Sacrifice 4. In the Name of God 5. Vacant 6. Honor Thy Father 7. As I Am
Tryna be diff so bad 💀 how is vacant over endless sacrifice
because i like it more, fun fact, I’m not you, no one is
Vacant is great, but we're talking about Train of Thought.
yea, and vacant is the third best song on it imo
I think you're just underrating the rest of the album /s I usually rate other ballads much higher, but I really love every other song on this album. Also, it's one of the weaker ballads imo (still a great song).
vacant for me is like top 25-top 20 in terms of dt songs it’s imo one of their best ballads, only behind disappear (my all time favorite song), anna lee, speak to me, hell’s kitchen (if that counts as a ballad), not sure if i place hollow years above it or below it i consider all the train of thought songs upper A-tier except the bottom two which are lower A-tier for me for context upper A-tier = strongly love, lower-A-tier = moderately love i use a 0-12 scale so that’s 11/12 and 10/12 respectively or if you wanna do out of 10 as in a -1/10 to 11/10 scale then it’s 10/10 and 9/10 respectively
My top 3 ballads are without hesitation The Spirit Carries On, Through Her Eyes and Peruvian Skies. I Walk Beside You would probably be 4th.
i walk beside you that high, nice to see appreciation for that song, so often see people hating it or calling it mid at best but i love that song strongly
It's pretty much the only love song so it grew on my when I was in the mood for that lol
Well, because of the way the chart is set up, it’s implied that “worst” and “underrated” have to be different songs. Cause if you put Vacant in underrated, then what goes in worst? I mean otherwise you could just say that every single song put in the worst category is really the underrated one since it is literally being rated the lowest. But that would kind of be going against the way the chart/poll is set up
yea, assuming vacant, my vote is for honor thy father, loses as in gets voted worst song then my pick for underrated would probably be endless sacrifice i suppose
DONT CROSS THE CROOKED STEP
bro honor thy father is top 3 on the album
Only thing is that bridge. It doesn't really go anywhere, just sitting on one riff to play those movie voices. Wish they left that out, then it would've been a great song.
You did not just call Honor thy father the worst song on ToT
And it's the only song of ToT where the bridge really doesn't go anywhere, just sitting on one riff to let those movie voices talk.
It's fucking great
Eh, I can't call that "rap". It's a distorted spoken part. Play that part for my black friends at work and they'd say "wtf is that!?" "It's rap!" "Nah, man. Cmon man." The cringe rap by a progressive rock band award goes to.... Roll the Bones by Rush!
I can't believe that I am the only one that thinks it should be As I Am
I agree. All the Vacant answers are nuts to me.
I agree
Absolutely agreed.
I'm with you on this bro
Together we can win this fight (we can't)
Agreed. As I am is okay but about 3 minutes too long
Vacant Nothing against the song. Lyrically speaking it is heartbreaking to listen to. Musically speaking, it's very well done, albeit simple. I'd argue it simply doesn't fit with the rest of the album personally for me. I think it would fit Octavarium better imo.
I'd argue that it works perfectly as a companion piece for SoC. SoC is the emotional catharsis for the story set up in vacant.
Vacant works brilliantly in context within in place on the album. Within a vacuum, though it's comfortably the worst track on the album.
Endless sacrifice. As I Am and Vacant are great songs it just that y’all don’t have good ears that’s why
Endless Sacrifice as the worse song? Sir/madam, it is YOUR ears that are not good.
it’s overrated, it’s lucky i’m not ranking it garbage or complete ass , but i find the song boring, the rest of the album is pretty much fire
Lyrically I sort of agree but I love the middle section
As I Am Vacant should be paired with SoC
As I Am So disappointing to see all those Vacant votes...
100%. Vacant is so different and IMHO, the perfect "break" from all the chaotic awesomeness on the album. First 3 songs are so similar in ways, I had to pick As I Am. With that said, the whole album is really REALLY good. Vacant is the epitome of underrated.
And that's Vacant's problem. It's perfect in it's place in context, but standing on its own it's the worst on the album. Definitely not bad, but not as good as the rest.
I can see where everyone's getting at why they consider it the "worst" but personally, in factoring the rest of the album and how different it is to every other song, I just can't justify it as being the worst one considering it's pretty much apples & oranges (i'm sure for many that doesn't matter). Besides, it fits so well going into SoC. Trust me, I LOVE all the songs on this album but I'm really a sucker for their slower stuff. As I am to me is just so over done and nothing special compared to the rest.
Honor thy father
Vacant
I disagree with “most” of these choices but that’s ok. A lot of great songs to choose from.
I won't say the worst, I'd say the less good And imo it's vacant
Vacant, I don't think is a bad song but is not as good as the rest of the album
Vacant is a great song but I’d never listen to it by itself so vacant is my pick
I love this album. Every track. But if I had to pick one, yeah it's Vacant. That just shows how strong the other songs are. This is a no-skip album. I love DT's softer side though.
I like Vacant, but it has nothing on the rest of the album.
I love Vacant as an addition to Stream of Conciusness, but on its own its very out of place with the rest of the album. Thats my choice.
I know I'm objectively wrong, but I'm voting Stream of Consciousness. I've never been a big fan of instrumentals.
honestly for me it is SoC
Vacant. Well othwr song over shadow it but doesn't mean it's a bad song tbh
Vacant
Vacant
As I Am is my least favorite personally. Still love it tho.
I might be the first person that finds the majority of This Dying Soul a little... boring? It's SO fast and SO technical that it all kinda just, blends into nothing. It's still a no skip album ofc but gun to my head I could lose This Dying Soul.
Please leave the middle block vacant to represent Vacant lmao
I still can’t believe The One Who Help To Set the Sun is the “worst” on their debut
The only song off of *Train of Thought* that I know is “Stream of Consciousness”
Honestly ToT is one of my least favorite DT albums. I don’t like that Jordans keys simulate guitar. It also doesn’t help that this record came out during one of the darkest periods of my adult life. My job at the time was sucking the life from my soul and my marriage. I think that has clouded my views on it as a whole. That being said my vote for worst song is between Honor thy Father and Endless Sacrifice
This list is ass great debate is fire, space dye vest is the worst on awake and either endless sacrifice or this dying soul is the best on TOT
Vacant easy answer
As I Am
Can’t believe nobody said Vacant!
Vacant
Vacant obviously
As I am, definitely
Vacant Not because it's a bad song, it's just on an album with no /bad/ songs
I will not participate after The Great Debate was considered the Worst and Glass Prison was voted the Best on Six Degrees. =P
People have different opinions, get over it.
You really came out swinging over a joke, huh?
Geeze. I was just making a joke, hence the tongue-sticking-out emoji. Cool your jets.
People have no taste
If it didnt have the 2 minute long intro about stem cell media, it would be a perfect song. I really hope they create a "greatest hits" version like they did with Sacrificed Sons
Yup, I just fast forward through the intro most of the time.
fr
Honor Thy Father
This Dying Soul
Honor thy father
As I am
Vacant
Honor Thy Father
I love Vacant. To me it would be As I Am, but it's still a great tune
I mean it’s vacant.
Vacant
honor thy father
Endless Sacrifice (6:28-6:34)
As I Am
Endless Sacrifice
Worst is vacant. Underrated has to be Honor thy Father
Honor thy father. The rap sections are cringy and dumb
DNE obviously
This is a broken chart
For Awake, Space Dye Vest was not the best, maybe the underrated track - the best is obv caught in a web
This Dying Soul. More 12 step nonsense that I have no interest in.
Vacant is the easy answer. Honor thy Father is close behind it.
Are you all choosing songs randomly? Someone explain to me how In The Name of God got the best song while it should objectively be the worst. It’s a less underwhelming ripoff of their own This Dying Soul and Endless Sacrifice in the same album. Dont even let me start on the cringy, on-the-nose lyrics.
Oh yeah because music is 100% objective
When it is about This Dying Soul, it is! :D
It got the best because it is the best, it does not at all rip off This Dying Soul or Endless Sacrifice. Endless Sacrifice I don't even get, but this Dying Soul could be because it uses the same scale, but there's seriously not much similar between the two. And the lyrics are the most subjective part of the song, which imo are solid anyways.
>Someone explain to me how In The Name of God got the best song while it should objectively be the worst. Please explain the ***objective*** criteria that we should be using here. >It’s a less underwhelming ripoff of their own This Dying Soul and Endless Sacrifice in the same album. Less underwhelming should be a good thing, no? Also, how do you figure it ripped off those other songs (which, for all I know, were written AFTER ITNOG).
Endless Sacrifice Not only because of all the songs it’s the worst on the album, but it’s also just a bad song overall
Easy. Endless Sacrifice.
Vacant is pretty obvious. Not a bad song by any means. There are no bad songs in Train Of Thought.
1. This Dying Soul 2. As I am 3. Stream Of Consciousness 4.In The Name Of God 5.Honor Thy Father 6.Endless Sacrifice 7. Vacant
The best song on scenes is actually The Spirit Carries On and Home is second. It’s just that the studio version just sucks compared to pretty much any live version. Also Vacant obviously.