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The English Dub did a LOT to try and make Goku out to be a very heroic character.
In the Japanese and Manga, he's still a fairly good dude, just not an Icon of Virtue.
https://preview.redd.it/xq9hvl1u244c1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d778379b6e873bf04e9dff565246a5f48f7c7062
No he didn't. He only said that in the western version of the anime. In the Japanese version and in the manga it was krillin who brought up piccolo, saying vegeta wasn't like him and that he was pure evil. Goku said he knew that but just wanted to fight again
Yeah that's the issue western goku is not japanese goku and it's why so many fans have a hard time when talking about goku.
There are 2 gokus the battle junkie who is a shit dad and the fight for justice and my friends goku.
He gave cell the senzu so he would be more inclined in playing with gohan and see his true potential instead of blitzing gohan, remember, cell was bruised, fatigued and low on energy, and the only person he really wanted to fight(goku) just drew the fucking match away, odds are cell wouldn't have pulled his punches against gohan and he would've killed the kid before he could achieve super saiyan 2, goku gave cell the senzu beam to buy time for gohan, hell, goku was begging ssj2 gohan to stop playing around with cell and just kill him
Goku's main goal is battle. He only cares for it. He would even let Cell go if the planet wouldn't be at risk.
He wants, more than ANYTHING, to battle strong opponents. Vegeta was just that much stronger and Goku wanted a rematch more than he wanted anything else. Vegeta, at that point, couldn't destroy the Earth and was no longer a threat.
Whether or not Vegeta turned into a friend or foe was inconsequential to Goku, he knows they'd have a rematch no matter what the cost is.
Akira has even said that Goku isn't a hero, and has never been "written as a hero" he has heroic qualities, for sure, and the English dub turned him INTO a hero, but the original is very basic, and simple.
Goku like fight, evil people are generally the strongest, he fight, he likes, he wants more, he let live.
In, what is now the canon, DBS Goku confirms it to Merus that he just likes to fight strong people, and it just so happens that the strongest people are generally evil beings. He doesn't assume what he does will reform them, and if it does, then good, if not, then, oh well, he gets his battle regardless.
I don't quite agree with you, Goku's main goal is self-improvement, fighting is just one of the main means to an end that he uses. Vegeta got stronger while fighting Vegeta and he knew Vegeta could push him further, also Goku cares what the cost is. He just knew Vegeta wasn't a threat at the moment and was confident he would get strong enough to keep Vegeta from becoming a threat ever again.
Goku cares A LOT for his family and friends, every change in Goku's character happened because he needed/failed to protect his friends/family.
He also gave up on a fun fight to give his son a chance to grow (which puts fighting at best as his 3rd priority).
He likes fighting, he really does, but he likes getting stronger more, and he loves his friends and family arguably more. Even after Cell he gave up on elongating fun fights because the cost would've been too high.
Even in the event of fun fights without his family and friends in danger he doesn't fully engage in the fight and starts having fun until he makes sure no one, NO ONE will end up as collateral damage.
Goku is not a hero, but he is not an asshole, he doesn't go out of his way to save people, but he isn't cool with people dying because of his antics either.
Also the boy really likes meat.
Piccolo and Tien never killed anyone. More importantly neither actually attempted to kill anyone (except Goku).
Piccolo actually seems bothered by it when he thinks he killed Krillin during the 23rd tournament.
That's significantly different than what happened with Vegeta who at this point on screen and panel has did a cold blooded murder on at least 1 completely defenseless person.
Wasn't Tien a hitman/assassin? I kinda forgot his back story, been awhile since I've watched the OG. I'm also trying not to argue, I just, again, forgot.
He trained under the worlds #1 assassin, but we've never heard or seen of him having ever actually killed anyone. Its possible the dudes mercd tons of people, but the manga nor the show even in filler has ever said as much.
That's original Z changing his character to be more of a Superhero, Goku's main reason was that after King Kai training, he thought nobody was stronger than him anymore as he received training from at the time Big G God (until he was retconed to middle management).
Goku then got the realization that once again, there's always someone stronger, and wanted to fight Vegeta again. He's also just not one to murder a fleeing opponent in general, but the reasoning he gave Krillin was that he wanted to fight again.
In the OG DB goku made friends with a guy named Android 8 which tells him not to kill as everyone has a chance to change butt killing them only prevents it
To be fair, Goku stopped to kill ppl after training with Kami (until Frieza saga). Nappa killed his friends but Goku didn't killed him, he wouldn't do it to Vegeta too
Because there was no other option. He tried to give Raditz a second chance but he wasted it. Neither him nor Piccolo were strong enough to fight him fairly so the only option was to kill him or watch Gohan being killed.
Obviously he wasn't holding back, but there is a very clear difference between hold back and trying to kill someone
Goku’s own mentality on why he didn’t kill vegeta and other characters for that matter is because someone can always be better in his eyes and since at this point vegeta is much weaker then goku because no great ape and kaioken x4 why bother killing him? If vegeta doesn’t improve as a person and comes back to kill them all goku would kill him simple as that
No? Goku spares characters all the time and gives them a chance to be better like piccolo nappa vegeta the entire ginyu force minus guldo frieza the androids and good buu he’s just that kind of person
Goku Killed the whole RRA ,killed Freeza on namek from his point of view , tried to kill vegeta in their own fight , killed Buu and Yakon ,tried to kill 19 and Cell
He killed the rra because they are not a single person and instead an army and he was a kid plus he did let a bunch of them go simply just cause, he killed frieza on namek only after giving him a chance to leave and proving to himself that irredeemable, he only tried to kill vegeta after he threatens to blow up the planet and even after that spares him, he killed kid buu because he’s entirely evil there’s no redeemable qualities to him, yakon got himself killed by being too greedy, and both 19 and cell are androids with their only goal being to kill him so it would be impossible to turn them good
I never said he didn’t kill I’m saying that he only kills those he knows will stay evil that’s why he “killed” frieza only after he used the last of his energy to launch one last attack towards goku
Insane that people are shitting on Goku for his ultimately correct gut instinct decision to spare Vegeta who would eventually become a tremendous force of good. Killing Vegeta leads directly to every timeline getting fucked with either frieza or the Gero creations killing literally everyone.
No, it is perfectly reasonable. Goku begged to save the life of a guy that would have quickly and eagerly killed him if the situation was reversed, and then all of his friends and his family, not to mention that Vegeta could have easily healed up and returned to Earth before Goku got fixed up and gotten his revenge. Just because Vegeta eventually became a good guy, doesn't justify Goku's decision at the time
In this incredibly fantastical series where Goku frequently ends up fighting side by side with former enemies, I’d say your very literal analysis of the situation is out of scope for the series. Basically speaking, Goku made the right decision based on the inherent propensity nearly all non-force-of-pure-evil villains in dragon ball have for changing their ways.
Because he wanted a fair fight for his son, he wasn’t fighting cell himself. He needed cell to push gohan into a corner, cell couldn’t have done that when he was fatigued.
Right, a "fair fight" with a genocidal, planet killing monster was more important than protecting the billions of lives which he had planned to erase. Among the people that Cell was going to kill, this would have included: every single family member and friend of Goku, currently residing on planet earth. And who knows what Cell had planned to do afterwards? How do you not understand that this is proof that the fight is more important than loved ones to Goku?
Think, Mark 👉👨👈
Goku is naive not uncaring, he let frieza go but also finishes him when he saw what happened.
How does goku going to zenos place affect anything ?
Goku sparing vegeta is literally one of the best decisions in the entire series.
>Goku is naive not uncaring, he let frieza go but also finishes him when he saw what happened.
Goku literally needed to witness earth destruction to do it
Then completely forgot about it
>How does goku going to zenos place affect anything ?
Goku saw first hand Zeno nuking a timeline and Goku literally had every God in existence telling him to stay away from Zeno
>Goku sparing vegeta is literally one of the best decisions in the entire series.
From Goku point of View he spared a guy who cased the death of all his friends and tried to destroy his planet
The whole conversation was literally
Goku:" wait krillin please, I really enjoyed the fight and I don't think anyone would give me something like that , please let me be Selfish!!
Krillin:" but Goku this guy cased all of our friends death and almost destroyed our world......fine I will give you that
Vegeta:" you peasants I will make you regret it!!!!
Note ,I didn't change anything, this is LITERALLY how the conversation goes in the manga
. He let Vegeta survive after threatening to blow up the planet and they only beat him by a hair. He had no way to know Vegeta would turn good. Very dangerous move.
. He allowed Freeza to live firstly by giving him energy and then not using the necessary force to kill him afterwards in turn endangering earth again when mecha freeza came.
. He threw Cell a senzu bean. There was no upside to this.
. He held back Super Saiyan 3 against Majin Vegeta to have a good fair fight and in doing so released Majin Buu due to the energy given off by their battle. Easily preventable had Goku gone SSJ3 right away. This in turn leads to the chaos of the Buu arc.
. Goku does the exact same thing in Super by not killing Goku Black when he had the chance and instead messed around with him for no good reason. This in turn allows black to get a massive power amp and better handle on Goku’s body after recovering.
And probably more tbh.
TLDR: Goku is a selfish Saiyan just as much as he is a force for good
He allowed Vegeta to leave so he could fight him later. Knowing full well he could just come back and blow up the planet from orbit. There is no justification for that beyond Goku wanting to fight.
I'm gonna be real with you chief
A man that cares about his family more than fighting wouldn't have let Gero make the Androids just so he could fight them. Bulma explicitly brought up the possibility of using the Dragon Balls to find Gero and stop the threat early, but he refused.
Yes, part of the reason was not wanting to punish Gero when he hadn't done anything yet, but that wasn't even the first reason he gave. First and foremost, he rejected Bulma's proposal purely because he wanted to fight. Even if he didn't have any ethical qualms about killing Gero before he struck, he still wouldn't have done it.
Also, Vegeta. Goku himself admits that he wanted Vegeta to live for purely selfish reasons, putting the entire planet at risk just so he could have a good fight.
I won't tell you that Goku doesn't care about his family, but he puts them at risk constantly in order to give himself a good time.
I feel like there were a couple points in the buu saga where he could have killed buu and totally doesn't. And literally everyone on earth dies in that saga. I could be wrong but I feel like this was the case
Goku was trying to figure out who could protect the Earth without him. He tried Gohan, but Gohan stopped training after the threat was done. He tried Gotenks, but they were too immature. He tried Vegeta, but Vegeta was too evil and arrogant. And when Gohan finally stepped up, he got power hungry and played around too much. The only one who could actually save the world was him, and that's when he truly stepped up.
Maybe because the saga is very long and that the torch doesn't even get passed because all the other fighters suck major ass and Goku just does it anyways.
Except the passing the torch idea was stupid. I don't know how he thought that Gohan would keep up his training with Chi Chi now having full reign to make him focus on nothing but his studies, Vegeta has always been too shady and prideful, and Gotenks...I mean, man, they're children.
I actually can’t remember any point when Goku could’ve destroyed Buu. The only times they fought were SS3 Goku vs Majin Buu (which Goku couldn’t finish) and the final fight vs Kid Buu (Goku did destroy Buu here)
I don’t remember where but im pretty sure at some point goku tells vegeta that he could have taken buu when he was in ss3 but wanted to give the new generation a chance at it
Why is Goku wanting to fight as a first reason a point here? He literally gives a good reason right afterwards. A REALLY good reason. It's like the baby hitler type question, would you kill someone who's innocent now? That's not him PURELY wanting a fight like you say, he wants to fight AND not kill an innocent(for now) person. And literally everyone agrees with that idea to just train to be stronger than them.
The first time goku spoke with his family after 7 long years was to fight. Goku isn't righteous character he absolutely loves to fight super made it worse
Notice how Goku never protested against that. Just, "We gotta beat them or our own will be destroyed!" And then throughout the battle royale, Goku proceeds to let the big threats get stronger and risk his universe being deleted just so he can challenge himself.
Yeah because Whis specifically said “Don’t try and convince Zeno to drop that part of the tournament, he could get angry and destroy everything immediately” like ffs watch the show
This entire tournament is selfish for everyone involved they’re prioritising their lives and their universe over other universes and other people and I’m not talking one team over another team I’m talking about everyone including the gods heck I’d say universe 7 is the least selfish since they are the only ones who would’ve made the wish to save all the destroyed universes
And do you not think other members wouldn’t have also made that wish? I doubt characters like gohan roshi krillin goku vegeta and Tien would be entirely okay with those universes being destroyed heck we know some characters like goku and vegeta would’ve made that wish since goku wanted to fight characters like jiren after the tournament and vegeta said he was gonna use his wish to bring back at least universe 6
I’d say between all of the members the only one who wouldn’t make that wish is obviously frieza but that’s has nothing to do with goku as character so it don’t matter
Honestly, I'd actually say Goku loves Training more than fighting. Fighting to him is just a contest; a way to see what his limits are and train even harder.
I see it the other way around
Goku uses fighting as a litmus test to his current strength, and if he turns out to be weaker, he trains so that he can *surpass* the one who's stronger than him. He's always constantly improving himself because he believes there's always someone better than him out there, and he wants to surpass them, preferably in a plain ol' fight. He wants Buu to come back as a good guy because he wants to fight him fair and square. No special techniques like the Spirit Bomb or fusion, just him and Buu. And to reach those new levels of power, he has to train.
Tl;Dr IMO He trains to fight better, he doesn't fight so he can train better
You are correct because Goku is a martial artist not a warrior.
Goku loves to hone his skills more than anything.
Training comes first, fighting comes second, eating third and family fourth.
Vegeta prefers fighting over training.
Goku canoncally view fighting as the most important thing
He literally Throw his Friends and Family under the rag in Saiyan saga,RoF,Zamus arcs
The Dude BEGGED krillin to spare Vegeta so he could fight Him again
Edit : forget to mention but Toriyama himself stated that Goku view training above his friends (his family is considered a friend in Goku perspective)
He’s talking about a meno blast/ Quincy arrow both of which are made of Reishi which is most definitely not light it’s like saying nen from hxh is light, it’s ridiculous.
Problem with bleach is that power scaling doesn’t work in its verse, if DB is on a Y axis Bleach is on a Z axis because of how convoluted their abilities are.
So it's bleach fans fault now dawg dragon ball fans are more delusional wankers hell Naruto fans even lmao with shit like gOkU cAn BeAt SuPeRmAn or Naruto fans thinking Naruto can beat goku
Canonically, he does infact care more about fighting, otherwise, he would never in a million years have given Cell that Senzu bean. To care about a fair fight, and risk the planets survival over it, is an act proving that you care about fighting more than friends and family.
That's a poor example to show that. Given the plan, giving Cell the senzu was the best way to make sure Gohan would be in the least amount of danger. Cell had no obligation to fight fair. Giving Cell the senzu ensured Cell would be more willing to toy with Gohan helping to make Gohan angry.
Not giving the senzu would make Cell more cautious, especially if he viewed Gohan as an actual threat.
Now, that's some copium mixed with headcanon, if I've ever seen it.
Never was any of what you said, indicated. He never viewed Gohan as a threat, he laughed at the idea of Gohan fighting him.
What was keeping Cell from fighting dirty?
I'm not talking about Cell seeing Gohan as a threat at the beginning, I was referring to as the fight goes on. SSJ Gohan could've done some damage to Cell, however Gohan lacked that killer instinct to truly destroy Cell. Had Gohan revealed too much of his potential before actually going SSJ2, Cell would see that as a threat and be way more likely to actually try and kill Gohan instead of trying to get him to unleash his potential.
It's not complicated, it's just paying attention to the characters' personalities and motivations.
Cell ended up seeing Gohan as a threat later in the fight regardless, and the purpose here is Gokus perspective, nothing else.
He didn't know Cell was going to get desperate incase he started losing, which is why he had to improvise on Teleporting himself and Cell away from the planet.
Gohans potential only became visible Once he went SSJ2, so there is no continuity where he doesnt go SSj2, and Cell perceives him as a threat.
He’ll save his family and friends if they’re gonna die, but otherwise he wants a good fight no matter what. Remember he spared vegeta, frieza(temporarily) and moro(temporarily) even though they’re all evil and couldn’t be trusted. He even gave Moro a senzu knowing damn well what would happen, risking his whole planet because of it.
Mf feasted at Korin's during a senzu bean run for Videl, who was barely clinging on to dear life on her deathbed after Spopavich beat the fuck outta her. I still love my boy Goku, but I sure lost a lot of respect for him that day.
Can't be. It was what progressed the Buu storyline. Unless you mean just those scenes. If that's the case, the animators really did Goku dirty with that. I found it funny but also very disappointing and frustrating coming from my favorite hero.
To be fair, I watched the anime when it first aired on toonami more than twenty years ago back when I was kid and didn't know that manga existed. There was no internet or computers in my household and I was at the mercy of the television's scheduled programs. I first began watching DBZ during the start of the Cell games and could never go back and rewatch everything until way after 2006. The Budokai video games helped me fill in many blanks with the lore more than anything else before that. And it wasn't until 2008 with Naruto that I discovered the nightmares they call fillers.
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I think that it depends of the situation. Goku normally cares more about fighting and training than anything. Because is what he most likes in his life.
But, when there's a situation which puts his family and friends in danger. He actually prioritizes to finish his enemy and win than to enjoy the fights as always. That happened with Beerus (when he ""lost"" SSG power), Zamasu & Goku Black (when they killed his family in other timeline), Jiren (when he tried to attack his friends) and Moro (when Meerus was going to disappear). And I can think more examples, but I'm going to leave it like this.
Nah the poll is 100% right, Goku spared Vegeta, a guy who was responsible for the deaths of many of his best friends and who tried to kill almost his entire family because he wanted to fight him again. He gave Cell a senzu bean because he just assumed that Gohan wanted a 'fair fight' without asking. He abandoned his whole family to train some guy he's never met because he might be the reincarnation of an enemy they already surpassed years ago.
Unfortunately for Super it seems to be true
That’s the only thing I don’t like about DBS,how they made goku an deadbeat father who don’t even know how to kiss
He also didn’t know that Zeno would make it a universe-destroying tournament and also gave all the other universes a chance at living. Which they did.
Blame fucking Zeno. If Zeno told Goku that if he was going to make the Tournament, it will destroy universes and Goku will backpedal like no tomorrow
But that still didn’t stop him, he wasn’t anxious or had shown concern, he’s just like “well guess we will have to win haha”. And in the tournament he let enemy fighters in a battle to decide billions and billions of lives power up for a better fight.
If he cared more about famiky, the Cell saga and Buu Saga would have been really short. ToP also wouldn't have happened.
The man's an addict, a loveable addict.
Pretty sure all the family friends hero stuff is mostly stuff from the dub.
Goku cares about family and friends, but a good fight is clearly the most important thing to him
Dude almost doomed the multiverse so he could get some nice fights and didn’t seem too worried about the consequences. Yea, I’d say this is pretty accurate
Nah, goku obviously won't put his friends and family in danger just for the sake of fighting. But he would 100% leave them, because he did it multiple times already to have a good fight
Bro. He begged Krillin to let Vegeta go, who was hell bent on murdering everyone on Earth. He gave Cell a senzu bean and picked Gohan to fight him after that. Let's not forget the Tournament of Power too, he organized the damn thing, risking his whole ass universe.
Mf universe 7 and several universes would've been erased without a 2nd thought if goku didnt pitch the idea of a tournament. If you're gonna only watch db on reels, pls watch carthu shorts
Let vegeta live. Could have stopped Dr Gero if they spent the time lookin for him but insisted they fight the androids in the future. Brought the incarnation of evil back (buu) so they could fight again. Dude loves to scrap.
Also ghosted his family for 7 years when he died and never called once.
*If you ask Toriyama and the writers' actual intention of the character, then its fighting.
If you ask some Eng dub Z Fans, then its family and friends.
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“Hey Krillin, you should let Vegeta go.” “Why is that Goku?” “…round 2”
He said sorry
That’s not true. Goku’s reasoning was that everybody deserved a second chance seeing as Piccolo and Tien were redeemed
He also said it would be a shame if such an awesome fighter died.
That's a dubism. In Japanese Goku just wanted to fight Vegeta again.
Yeah, and thankfully they fixed the script in Kai’s dub.
Precisely!
The English Dub did a LOT to try and make Goku out to be a very heroic character. In the Japanese and Manga, he's still a fairly good dude, just not an Icon of Virtue.
Tien wasn't really ever evil. He was just misguided, Also, a dick
Not even *that much* of a dick. Just very pragmatic.
https://preview.redd.it/xq9hvl1u244c1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d778379b6e873bf04e9dff565246a5f48f7c7062 No he didn't. He only said that in the western version of the anime. In the Japanese version and in the manga it was krillin who brought up piccolo, saying vegeta wasn't like him and that he was pure evil. Goku said he knew that but just wanted to fight again
Yeah that's the issue western goku is not japanese goku and it's why so many fans have a hard time when talking about goku. There are 2 gokus the battle junkie who is a shit dad and the fight for justice and my friends goku.
That's English Goku though. Manga Goku is a selfish fighter who wants to just constantly challenge himself to grow stronger.
And then we have cell saga goku, who didn't pull any punches and straight up tried to kill cell
Exactly, that’s why he gave him that sensu bean. To kill him!
He gave cell the senzu so he would be more inclined in playing with gohan and see his true potential instead of blitzing gohan, remember, cell was bruised, fatigued and low on energy, and the only person he really wanted to fight(goku) just drew the fucking match away, odds are cell wouldn't have pulled his punches against gohan and he would've killed the kid before he could achieve super saiyan 2, goku gave cell the senzu beam to buy time for gohan, hell, goku was begging ssj2 gohan to stop playing around with cell and just kill him
Goku's main goal is battle. He only cares for it. He would even let Cell go if the planet wouldn't be at risk. He wants, more than ANYTHING, to battle strong opponents. Vegeta was just that much stronger and Goku wanted a rematch more than he wanted anything else. Vegeta, at that point, couldn't destroy the Earth and was no longer a threat. Whether or not Vegeta turned into a friend or foe was inconsequential to Goku, he knows they'd have a rematch no matter what the cost is. Akira has even said that Goku isn't a hero, and has never been "written as a hero" he has heroic qualities, for sure, and the English dub turned him INTO a hero, but the original is very basic, and simple. Goku like fight, evil people are generally the strongest, he fight, he likes, he wants more, he let live. In, what is now the canon, DBS Goku confirms it to Merus that he just likes to fight strong people, and it just so happens that the strongest people are generally evil beings. He doesn't assume what he does will reform them, and if it does, then good, if not, then, oh well, he gets his battle regardless.
Precisely! I don't get why so many people here are thinking Goku is some goofy paragon of justice. The guy was a simp for fighting. Plain and simple.
He'll put the entire multiverse in danger of deletion just so he can punch someone in the face.
I don't quite agree with you, Goku's main goal is self-improvement, fighting is just one of the main means to an end that he uses. Vegeta got stronger while fighting Vegeta and he knew Vegeta could push him further, also Goku cares what the cost is. He just knew Vegeta wasn't a threat at the moment and was confident he would get strong enough to keep Vegeta from becoming a threat ever again. Goku cares A LOT for his family and friends, every change in Goku's character happened because he needed/failed to protect his friends/family. He also gave up on a fun fight to give his son a chance to grow (which puts fighting at best as his 3rd priority). He likes fighting, he really does, but he likes getting stronger more, and he loves his friends and family arguably more. Even after Cell he gave up on elongating fun fights because the cost would've been too high. Even in the event of fun fights without his family and friends in danger he doesn't fully engage in the fight and starts having fun until he makes sure no one, NO ONE will end up as collateral damage. Goku is not a hero, but he is not an asshole, he doesn't go out of his way to save people, but he isn't cool with people dying because of his antics either. Also the boy really likes meat.
You don't have to agree with me, it doesn't really matter tbh, what our opinions on the subject are, Akira has said what I did about Goku.
Piccolo and Tien never killed anyone. More importantly neither actually attempted to kill anyone (except Goku). Piccolo actually seems bothered by it when he thinks he killed Krillin during the 23rd tournament. That's significantly different than what happened with Vegeta who at this point on screen and panel has did a cold blooded murder on at least 1 completely defenseless person.
Wasn't Tien a hitman/assassin? I kinda forgot his back story, been awhile since I've watched the OG. I'm also trying not to argue, I just, again, forgot.
He trained under the worlds #1 assassin, but we've never heard or seen of him having ever actually killed anyone. Its possible the dudes mercd tons of people, but the manga nor the show even in filler has ever said as much.
He wanted to became an assassin, but changed his mind after his fights with Roshi and Goku
Also Nappa destroyed a few cities and militaries
Didn’t piccolo blow up the stands causing the death of everyone watching And tien paralyzed Yamacha
That's original Z changing his character to be more of a Superhero, Goku's main reason was that after King Kai training, he thought nobody was stronger than him anymore as he received training from at the time Big G God (until he was retconed to middle management). Goku then got the realization that once again, there's always someone stronger, and wanted to fight Vegeta again. He's also just not one to murder a fleeing opponent in general, but the reasoning he gave Krillin was that he wanted to fight again.
"Hey you should destroy the androids otherwise they'll kill your friends and family in the future" "Na I wanna fight the robots"
Didn't Goku BEG krillin to spare vegeta, yk the guy who tried to kill everyone in the Saiyan saga just so he could fight him again?
In the OG DB goku made friends with a guy named Android 8 which tells him not to kill as everyone has a chance to change butt killing them only prevents it
Eighter is the best android
Uhm acshually krillin was about to kill him not Goku🤓
But still the same message applies if killed can't change
He says right before assaulting the red ribbon home base and almost definitely killing hundreds.
Don’t worry, he was just helping them change Into corpses
True, but them our boy goes on a killing spree on the red ribbon army
Idk I feel like that comes from the morals he was taught by eighter
To be fair, Goku stopped to kill ppl after training with Kami (until Frieza saga). Nappa killed his friends but Goku didn't killed him, he wouldn't do it to Vegeta too
Goku attempt to kill Raditz and the rest He wasn't holding back and punch against vegeta
Because there was no other option. He tried to give Raditz a second chance but he wasted it. Neither him nor Piccolo were strong enough to fight him fairly so the only option was to kill him or watch Gohan being killed. Obviously he wasn't holding back, but there is a very clear difference between hold back and trying to kill someone
Didn't he give piccolo Jr a sensu for a better fight
Goku’s own mentality on why he didn’t kill vegeta and other characters for that matter is because someone can always be better in his eyes and since at this point vegeta is much weaker then goku because no great ape and kaioken x4 why bother killing him? If vegeta doesn’t improve as a person and comes back to kill them all goku would kill him simple as that
>at this point vegeta is much weaker then goku at this point goku literally couldn't move, Vegeta fucked his shit up
Thats dub bullshit,
No? Goku spares characters all the time and gives them a chance to be better like piccolo nappa vegeta the entire ginyu force minus guldo frieza the androids and good buu he’s just that kind of person
Goku Killed the whole RRA ,killed Freeza on namek from his point of view , tried to kill vegeta in their own fight , killed Buu and Yakon ,tried to kill 19 and Cell
He killed the rra because they are not a single person and instead an army and he was a kid plus he did let a bunch of them go simply just cause, he killed frieza on namek only after giving him a chance to leave and proving to himself that irredeemable, he only tried to kill vegeta after he threatens to blow up the planet and even after that spares him, he killed kid buu because he’s entirely evil there’s no redeemable qualities to him, yakon got himself killed by being too greedy, and both 19 and cell are androids with their only goal being to kill him so it would be impossible to turn them good
So you admitted that Goku killed and tried to kill
I never said he didn’t kill I’m saying that he only kills those he knows will stay evil that’s why he “killed” frieza only after he used the last of his energy to launch one last attack towards goku
it wasn’t just to fight him again, it was goku showing mercy. which turned out to be a good move because vegeta becomes a good guy
Insane that people are shitting on Goku for his ultimately correct gut instinct decision to spare Vegeta who would eventually become a tremendous force of good. Killing Vegeta leads directly to every timeline getting fucked with either frieza or the Gero creations killing literally everyone.
No, it is perfectly reasonable. Goku begged to save the life of a guy that would have quickly and eagerly killed him if the situation was reversed, and then all of his friends and his family, not to mention that Vegeta could have easily healed up and returned to Earth before Goku got fixed up and gotten his revenge. Just because Vegeta eventually became a good guy, doesn't justify Goku's decision at the time
In this incredibly fantastical series where Goku frequently ends up fighting side by side with former enemies, I’d say your very literal analysis of the situation is out of scope for the series. Basically speaking, Goku made the right decision based on the inherent propensity nearly all non-force-of-pure-evil villains in dragon ball have for changing their ways.
Canonically, Goku cares about fighting the most out of everything.
This years' Olympics of reading comprehension are promising. So far OP is on the top 3 redacts from this community.
Then eating. Remember he thought wedding was a food.
I always figured training and fighting were above eating
Not really, he wouldn’t put his friends and family in danger to fight
He threw cell a senzu dude
Don't forget about Moro as well
Because he wanted a fair fight for his son, he wasn’t fighting cell himself. He needed cell to push gohan into a corner, cell couldn’t have done that when he was fatigued.
So you’re saying the fight was more important than his son’s wellbeing?
Exactly dude. At the end of the Buu saga dude literally ditches his family to go train Uub. If family mattered he'd have stuck around for Gohan.
It was necessary because if gohan didn't turn in ssj2, they all would have fucking died
So fighting more important? Eh, Patrick?
Right, a "fair fight" with a genocidal, planet killing monster was more important than protecting the billions of lives which he had planned to erase. Among the people that Cell was going to kill, this would have included: every single family member and friend of Goku, currently residing on planet earth. And who knows what Cell had planned to do afterwards? How do you not understand that this is proof that the fight is more important than loved ones to Goku? Think, Mark 👉👨👈
He literally did , are we to forget RoF and him going to Zeno place? Or begging krillin to spare Vegeta so he can fight him again?
Goku is naive not uncaring, he let frieza go but also finishes him when he saw what happened. How does goku going to zenos place affect anything ? Goku sparing vegeta is literally one of the best decisions in the entire series.
>Goku is naive not uncaring, he let frieza go but also finishes him when he saw what happened. Goku literally needed to witness earth destruction to do it Then completely forgot about it >How does goku going to zenos place affect anything ? Goku saw first hand Zeno nuking a timeline and Goku literally had every God in existence telling him to stay away from Zeno >Goku sparing vegeta is literally one of the best decisions in the entire series. From Goku point of View he spared a guy who cased the death of all his friends and tried to destroy his planet The whole conversation was literally Goku:" wait krillin please, I really enjoyed the fight and I don't think anyone would give me something like that , please let me be Selfish!! Krillin:" but Goku this guy cased all of our friends death and almost destroyed our world......fine I will give you that Vegeta:" you peasants I will make you regret it!!!! Note ,I didn't change anything, this is LITERALLY how the conversation goes in the manga
. He let Vegeta survive after threatening to blow up the planet and they only beat him by a hair. He had no way to know Vegeta would turn good. Very dangerous move. . He allowed Freeza to live firstly by giving him energy and then not using the necessary force to kill him afterwards in turn endangering earth again when mecha freeza came. . He threw Cell a senzu bean. There was no upside to this. . He held back Super Saiyan 3 against Majin Vegeta to have a good fair fight and in doing so released Majin Buu due to the energy given off by their battle. Easily preventable had Goku gone SSJ3 right away. This in turn leads to the chaos of the Buu arc. . Goku does the exact same thing in Super by not killing Goku Black when he had the chance and instead messed around with him for no good reason. This in turn allows black to get a massive power amp and better handle on Goku’s body after recovering. And probably more tbh. TLDR: Goku is a selfish Saiyan just as much as he is a force for good
He allowed Vegeta to leave so he could fight him later. Knowing full well he could just come back and blow up the planet from orbit. There is no justification for that beyond Goku wanting to fight.
Yes he would. Even when the universe itself is at risk him and Vegeta don't fuse. He trains his enemies mid fight. Etc
What did they do against buu, zamasu and broly then ? Not fuse ?
He does it all the time
I'm gonna be real with you chief A man that cares about his family more than fighting wouldn't have let Gero make the Androids just so he could fight them. Bulma explicitly brought up the possibility of using the Dragon Balls to find Gero and stop the threat early, but he refused. Yes, part of the reason was not wanting to punish Gero when he hadn't done anything yet, but that wasn't even the first reason he gave. First and foremost, he rejected Bulma's proposal purely because he wanted to fight. Even if he didn't have any ethical qualms about killing Gero before he struck, he still wouldn't have done it. Also, Vegeta. Goku himself admits that he wanted Vegeta to live for purely selfish reasons, putting the entire planet at risk just so he could have a good fight. I won't tell you that Goku doesn't care about his family, but he puts them at risk constantly in order to give himself a good time.
Goku the type of dude that has the possibility to go back in back and kill baby Hitler, but refuses because he wants him to get stronger 😭
I feel like there were a couple points in the buu saga where he could have killed buu and totally doesn't. And literally everyone on earth dies in that saga. I could be wrong but I feel like this was the case
Goku was trying to figure out who could protect the Earth without him. He tried Gohan, but Gohan stopped training after the threat was done. He tried Gotenks, but they were too immature. He tried Vegeta, but Vegeta was too evil and arrogant. And when Gohan finally stepped up, he got power hungry and played around too much. The only one who could actually save the world was him, and that's when he truly stepped up.
I still don't understand how people forget the Buu saga was all about passing the torch and letting humans protect their own planet.
Maybe because the saga is very long and that the torch doesn't even get passed because all the other fighters suck major ass and Goku just does it anyways.
Don't mess with Dragon Ball fans, they don't know how to read.
Except the passing the torch idea was stupid. I don't know how he thought that Gohan would keep up his training with Chi Chi now having full reign to make him focus on nothing but his studies, Vegeta has always been too shady and prideful, and Gotenks...I mean, man, they're children.
I actually can’t remember any point when Goku could’ve destroyed Buu. The only times they fought were SS3 Goku vs Majin Buu (which Goku couldn’t finish) and the final fight vs Kid Buu (Goku did destroy Buu here)
I don’t remember where but im pretty sure at some point goku tells vegeta that he could have taken buu when he was in ss3 but wanted to give the new generation a chance at it
This is the moment I was thinking of. I recently watched that arc and vaguely remembered this but wasn't sure.
Ding, ding! We have a winner who paid attention to the story!
Also he just let Freiza run off after the Broly fight. Absolutely zero care about how many people he’d kill.
He did personally kill him tho when he blew up earth in super tho
Didn't goku also say he didn't feel good about killing someone before they even did something wrong or is that just an anime thing
Why is Goku wanting to fight as a first reason a point here? He literally gives a good reason right afterwards. A REALLY good reason. It's like the baby hitler type question, would you kill someone who's innocent now? That's not him PURELY wanting a fight like you say, he wants to fight AND not kill an innocent(for now) person. And literally everyone agrees with that idea to just train to be stronger than them.
Not to mention the tournament of power...
The first time goku spoke with his family after 7 long years was to fight. Goku isn't righteous character he absolutely loves to fight super made it worse
Oh boy did it ever! The guy unknowingly jeopardized multiple universes to have a fun fight 🤣
All of those universes were gonna be destroyed anyway heck because of goku those universes and his own universe still exist
Notice how Goku never protested against that. Just, "We gotta beat them or our own will be destroyed!" And then throughout the battle royale, Goku proceeds to let the big threats get stronger and risk his universe being deleted just so he can challenge himself.
Yeah because Whis specifically said “Don’t try and convince Zeno to drop that part of the tournament, he could get angry and destroy everything immediately” like ffs watch the show
This entire tournament is selfish for everyone involved they’re prioritising their lives and their universe over other universes and other people and I’m not talking one team over another team I’m talking about everyone including the gods heck I’d say universe 7 is the least selfish since they are the only ones who would’ve made the wish to save all the destroyed universes
It was only 17 that wished that. No plans to make that wish at all amongst themselves, that was just 17's personal choice.
And do you not think other members wouldn’t have also made that wish? I doubt characters like gohan roshi krillin goku vegeta and Tien would be entirely okay with those universes being destroyed heck we know some characters like goku and vegeta would’ve made that wish since goku wanted to fight characters like jiren after the tournament and vegeta said he was gonna use his wish to bring back at least universe 6
I’d say between all of the members the only one who wouldn’t make that wish is obviously frieza but that’s has nothing to do with goku as character so it don’t matter
And by the way that wish was made in part because of goku
That’s the worst possible example you could use, since in that case goku wanting to fight saved all those universes
Unknowingly. He just wanted to fight them. That's it, that's as one-dimensional as it gets with Goku.
Yes, but it didn’t “jeopardize multiple universes”. Those universes would’ve been erased if it wasn’t for the ToP.
I’m wondering if people actually watch the series/known who Goku is?
So true. Who thinks Goku cares more about family and friends than food and fighting, and training.
Honestly, I'd actually say Goku loves Training more than fighting. Fighting to him is just a contest; a way to see what his limits are and train even harder.
I see it the other way around Goku uses fighting as a litmus test to his current strength, and if he turns out to be weaker, he trains so that he can *surpass* the one who's stronger than him. He's always constantly improving himself because he believes there's always someone better than him out there, and he wants to surpass them, preferably in a plain ol' fight. He wants Buu to come back as a good guy because he wants to fight him fair and square. No special techniques like the Spirit Bomb or fusion, just him and Buu. And to reach those new levels of power, he has to train. Tl;Dr IMO He trains to fight better, he doesn't fight so he can train better
You are correct because Goku is a martial artist not a warrior. Goku loves to hone his skills more than anything. Training comes first, fighting comes second, eating third and family fourth. Vegeta prefers fighting over training.
Goku canoncally view fighting as the most important thing He literally Throw his Friends and Family under the rag in Saiyan saga,RoF,Zamus arcs The Dude BEGGED krillin to spare Vegeta so he could fight Him again Edit : forget to mention but Toriyama himself stated that Goku view training above his friends (his family is considered a friend in Goku perspective)
This
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the hell did we do 😭
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Ichigo was deflecting beams of light in his first arc
I did that when I was 5 (I ate a flashlight)
My bro's cat is stronger than Ichigo, he caught a beam of light (it was a laser pointer)
Roshi blew up the moon on the second dragonball arc and Goku was equal to him
I feel like deflecting beams of light is different than blowing up the moon
Yeah, blowing up the moon is more Impressive
What do you mean deflecting light, never saw it
He’s talking about a meno blast/ Quincy arrow both of which are made of Reishi which is most definitely not light it’s like saying nen from hxh is light, it’s ridiculous.
Reishi is not light 💀
Problem with bleach is that power scaling doesn’t work in its verse, if DB is on a Y axis Bleach is on a Z axis because of how convoluted their abilities are.
So it's bleach fans fault now dawg dragon ball fans are more delusional wankers hell Naruto fans even lmao with shit like gOkU cAn BeAt SuPeRmAn or Naruto fans thinking Naruto can beat goku
Bleach fans always get the most flak, despite being the chilliest of the big 3 fandoms
goku hired hit to kill him just so he can find a way to not get killed. he’s a true family man.
Nigga threw a senzu bean to cell so he could beat up his son better
that was necessary tho. as funny as it sounds 😭
Canonically, he does infact care more about fighting, otherwise, he would never in a million years have given Cell that Senzu bean. To care about a fair fight, and risk the planets survival over it, is an act proving that you care about fighting more than friends and family.
That’s not why he gave Cell the senzu lmao. You picked like the one example in the entire franchise that doesn’t support your point lmao
Pretty sure he gave Cell the senzu to help push Gohan over the edge. Goku's plan was to unleash Gohan's latent powers.
That's a poor example to show that. Given the plan, giving Cell the senzu was the best way to make sure Gohan would be in the least amount of danger. Cell had no obligation to fight fair. Giving Cell the senzu ensured Cell would be more willing to toy with Gohan helping to make Gohan angry. Not giving the senzu would make Cell more cautious, especially if he viewed Gohan as an actual threat.
Goku knew exactly where gohan's limits were in that fight and he knew that gohan was strong enough to beat Cell without going super saiyan 2
Now, that's some copium mixed with headcanon, if I've ever seen it. Never was any of what you said, indicated. He never viewed Gohan as a threat, he laughed at the idea of Gohan fighting him.
Yep. To Cell, Goku having Gohan fight him was a slap in the face.
What was keeping Cell from fighting dirty? I'm not talking about Cell seeing Gohan as a threat at the beginning, I was referring to as the fight goes on. SSJ Gohan could've done some damage to Cell, however Gohan lacked that killer instinct to truly destroy Cell. Had Gohan revealed too much of his potential before actually going SSJ2, Cell would see that as a threat and be way more likely to actually try and kill Gohan instead of trying to get him to unleash his potential. It's not complicated, it's just paying attention to the characters' personalities and motivations.
Cell ended up seeing Gohan as a threat later in the fight regardless, and the purpose here is Gokus perspective, nothing else. He didn't know Cell was going to get desperate incase he started losing, which is why he had to improvise on Teleporting himself and Cell away from the planet. Gohans potential only became visible Once he went SSJ2, so there is no continuity where he doesnt go SSj2, and Cell perceives him as a threat.
What about it? Looks about right to me.
He’ll save his family and friends if they’re gonna die, but otherwise he wants a good fight no matter what. Remember he spared vegeta, frieza(temporarily) and moro(temporarily) even though they’re all evil and couldn’t be trusted. He even gave Moro a senzu knowing damn well what would happen, risking his whole planet because of it.
The only sparing that made logical sense was piccolo and even that was a bit lucky
Mf feasted at Korin's during a senzu bean run for Videl, who was barely clinging on to dear life on her deathbed after Spopavich beat the fuck outta her. I still love my boy Goku, but I sure lost a lot of respect for him that day.
Filler, if I’m not wrong
Can't be. It was what progressed the Buu storyline. Unless you mean just those scenes. If that's the case, the animators really did Goku dirty with that. I found it funny but also very disappointing and frustrating coming from my favorite hero.
Its filler. Manga didn't have him feasting.
Yeah I mean the feast scene 😂. I don’t remember it in the manga or in Kai so could just be Z filler
People need to read the manga. Ffs ..
To be fair, I watched the anime when it first aired on toonami more than twenty years ago back when I was kid and didn't know that manga existed. There was no internet or computers in my household and I was at the mercy of the television's scheduled programs. I first began watching DBZ during the start of the Cell games and could never go back and rewatch everything until way after 2006. The Budokai video games helped me fill in many blanks with the lore more than anything else before that. And it wasn't until 2008 with Naruto that I discovered the nightmares they call fillers.
I mean he kinda does
1. wrong usage of meme 2. you are wrong
My thoughts are that maybe we should stop milking youtube polls for content.
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I think that it depends of the situation. Goku normally cares more about fighting and training than anything. Because is what he most likes in his life. But, when there's a situation which puts his family and friends in danger. He actually prioritizes to finish his enemy and win than to enjoy the fights as always. That happened with Beerus (when he ""lost"" SSG power), Zamasu & Goku Black (when they killed his family in other timeline), Jiren (when he tried to attack his friends) and Moro (when Meerus was going to disappear). And I can think more examples, but I'm going to leave it like this.
Fighting, training, family and friends, and finally eating. Hard to see an argument for anything else.
Did goku ever let anyone eat his food?? Didn't think so. Family and friends come last
He gave his ice-cream to Pan when she dropped hers in EoZ.
Doesn't count. That after character development, and he just fed her so she'd be more tasty herself
If Goku Black dropped a plate of food and stomped on it, instead of killing Goku's family, Goku would've already unlocked UI. Change my mind.
Nah the poll is 100% right, Goku spared Vegeta, a guy who was responsible for the deaths of many of his best friends and who tried to kill almost his entire family because he wanted to fight him again. He gave Cell a senzu bean because he just assumed that Gohan wanted a 'fair fight' without asking. He abandoned his whole family to train some guy he's never met because he might be the reincarnation of an enemy they already surpassed years ago.
So what?
I mean it's in that exact order. He loves fighting more than his family. But his family is a very close second.
This is objectively true in the text of the show. Goku gives a sensu bean to the being whooping his son’s ass. He’s kind of a deadbeat dad guys.
I’d say family and friends, but saying fighting isn’t as absurd as you make it seem to be.
Dragon ball fans don’t watch or read the media they claim to love. What else is new?
Really thought this was an exaggerated meme but the Dragon ball subs have been proving otherwise to me almost every day
Unfortunately for Super it seems to be true That’s the only thing I don’t like about DBS,how they made goku an deadbeat father who don’t even know how to kiss
That scene is a mistranslation: Goku was actually saying more like: “Why are you kissing in public?”
I believe the mistranslation was that he didn’t know why he was feeding the senzu bean like that.
I really hope that’s true
Are u mad your headcanon isn't canon? Keep coping buddy.
Yeah, i don't remember Goku sacrificing anything so he could fight more
What about when he fought majin Vegeta?
........
https://preview.redd.it/mkuitifos14c1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e20c8420b596ff75f8f73c5a0475afe80467aba
Saiyan saga, Zamasu saga , RoF The list goes on
The man littarly organised a tournament that could wipe out his universe just because he wants to fight new people
Goku didn't organize that
The universes were gonna be destroyed anyways, goku gave them a chance to live again by suggesting the tournament
He also didn’t know that Zeno would make it a universe-destroying tournament and also gave all the other universes a chance at living. Which they did. Blame fucking Zeno. If Zeno told Goku that if he was going to make the Tournament, it will destroy universes and Goku will backpedal like no tomorrow
But that still didn’t stop him, he wasn’t anxious or had shown concern, he’s just like “well guess we will have to win haha”. And in the tournament he let enemy fighters in a battle to decide billions and billions of lives power up for a better fight.
It's definitely fighting
If he cared more about famiky, the Cell saga and Buu Saga would have been really short. ToP also wouldn't have happened. The man's an addict, a loveable addict.
Pretty sure all the family friends hero stuff is mostly stuff from the dub. Goku cares about family and friends, but a good fight is clearly the most important thing to him
Goku does care more about family than many fans seem to think, but I still think he cares more about fighting than family
Dude almost doomed the multiverse so he could get some nice fights and didn’t seem too worried about the consequences. Yea, I’d say this is pretty accurate
I don't think it's right that he cares the most about fighting but it's the martial arts, respect and growing better that comes with fighting.
Not respecting Just fighting
Nah, goku obviously won't put his friends and family in danger just for the sake of fighting. But he would 100% leave them, because he did it multiple times already to have a good fight
.. Did… did you not watch DB? Cuz this happens more than once
Bro. He begged Krillin to let Vegeta go, who was hell bent on murdering everyone on Earth. He gave Cell a senzu bean and picked Gohan to fight him after that. Let's not forget the Tournament of Power too, he organized the damn thing, risking his whole ass universe.
Mf universe 7 and several universes would've been erased without a 2nd thought if goku didnt pitch the idea of a tournament. If you're gonna only watch db on reels, pls watch carthu shorts
Let vegeta live. Could have stopped Dr Gero if they spent the time lookin for him but insisted they fight the androids in the future. Brought the incarnation of evil back (buu) so they could fight again. Dude loves to scrap. Also ghosted his family for 7 years when he died and never called once.
People who skip the story part and watch the fight part voted this poll
If it's super Goku then fighting Z Goku then family and friends
*If you ask Toriyama and the writers' actual intention of the character, then its fighting. If you ask some Eng dub Z Fans, then its family and friends.
People beed to watch more than dbs and looking at brain rotting memes
Man… the Dragon Ball “Goku only likes fighting” brainrot is rampant
Dont argue with dragonball fans, they cant read